Guitar thread

[stray]

Again with Steve Stevens' multi-tasking.. White Wedding

Really.. I've got devote myself to learning how he does that.

[Nebu]

Great link.  I wish they had shown the guitar work more.  The guy is truly amazing... and makes it look effortless in the process. 

[Righ]

This one of the best books for understanding the Beatles recordings. Out of print, but generally available:

http://www.amazon.com/EMIs-Complete-Beatles-Recording-Sessions/dp/0600557847

[stray]

So... Is there a technical term for what Steve is doing? Maintaining a bass line whilst playing a arpeggio like in that version of White Wedding, or when he's tapping frets while playing a bass line in Rebel Yell? I'd like to know if there's a term so I can find simple lessons to do that. I hear classical/flamenco players do it all the time, so there must be something...

On a sidenote: If I could pull off White Wedding like those guys above, then I could have any woman I wanted. Almost sure of it. 

[stray]

Here's my poor attempt at emulating Steve:

White Wedding

Easy song really... But amazing what a difference cool technique can make. Technique I ain't got...


Anyways, something should try singing over it. 

[edit] Somebody, I mean. Not "something".

[Sky]

Wouldn't it just be playing multiple parts? Some of the old blues guys would have three parts going on at once because they were imitating a whole band. They still blow my mind when I listen to them, it's why I listen to so much early recording.

[stray]

Yeah, there's those old fingerstyle players doing it too.. Blind Blake, Leadbelly.. I just hear it a lot in classical music as well. I'm sure that's where Steve got his chops. I said before though that my (piss poor  ) excuse is that I'm left handed -- but I play right handed. I'm doomed to never have good right hand technique.  It was a bitch when I started learning as a kid... But by the time I realized I was supposed to playing lefty guitars, it was too late.

Anyways... Here's a slightly improved version of WW. Hah. Improved the rhythm here maybe. I know it isn't original, but it's fun to play. 

Link

[stray]

Alright, just to show I'm not just playing 80's covers, here's an original:

I'll call it the Phone Ringing Blues 

[stray]

ALRIGHT, one more for the road.... Sorry for the multiple posts. I guess I'm posting shit now because Sky used to comment on me not doing it.


So I'm gonna name this song for him: 


Organic Meat

[edit] On a sidenote, I need to stop posting shit fifteen minutes after I made it up. Sounds empty. I vow to give you more intricacy later on! 

[penfold]

So... Is there a technical term for what Steve is doing? Maintaining a bass line whilst playing a arpeggio like in that version of White Wedding

I could get quite close to the verse by very fast downpicking the E string and 3 powerchords. I never play my accoustic with a pick so found it hard not to mute all the time as I don't play metal on it, but that's what it felt like I was doing :)

I've never seen that video before, but it's definetly the best version I've heard of the song.

[Righ]

So... Is there a technical term for what Steve is doing?

Hybrid picking?

[stray]

I guess that's it... Though it seems to be associated with country stuff.

..

Hell, I don't know. The hybrid picking examples I'm seeing are impressive, don't get me wrong, but the multiple parts seem to be basically following the same beat. What Stevens is doing seems trickier. Especially in the Rebel Yell intro.

I'm getting close like penfold with the main WW riff though.. Just using thumb and index finger though, no pick.

[Righ]

Hehe. The power of Google:

http://www.skinnydevil.com/Stevens-1.html

[stray]

Thanks! Hybrid picking it is. Lol, at the midi samples though. 

[Righ]

I know. Clearly we shouldn't use the standard GM instruments there. :)

[penfold]

I changed my rig this weekend. Now instead of setting up the >Pod Live>Peavy Express 112 amp or >Pod>PC>PC speakers or using ath amp alone, which meant lots of fiddling with wires and moving stuff about,  I now have guitar to Pod, and Pod outputting via balanced XLR to 2 Adam A7 nearfield active monitors.

The Pod never really sounded good through the Peavy as its a bit old, crackles and hums and along with the way the Pod works the emulation never sounded right. It was the same with the below average Phillips 5.1 speakers.  I can connect my Ipod to the Pods auxillary input too, either to play along with or just for music alone. The difference is stunning.  My next step is a decent mixer with a range of inputs and outputs and I'll connect the TV and Xbox up too.

[stray]

Good investment. Are you just mainly interested in recording though? Don't want a proper amp for jamming? Or at least... A powered cabinet or something?

[Sky]

Only problem with monitors or monitoring headphones is they have poor low end response.

[penfold]

I'm limited by my apartment with regards to amps. Anything over volume 1 on just about any amp short of a sub 100 buck toy is too loud. Walls like bloody paper.

[Sky]

Couple weeks ago my friend said he heard my amp a half-block away. It was on 6. Only 22W. Yeah, I feel your pain.

I've been using my Boss GT-6 to add some sizzle since I can't crank it up often.

[stray]

I might be technically wrong on this, but in my experience, valve powered amps are just plain louder than solid state. I've had a couple of 40 watters that could drown 100 watt stacks, and keep up with some very hard hitting drummers.

[Nebu]

I can tell you this; my neighbors hate my 2x15 bass box.  My ampeg head makes my basement shake.  I was playing "Peg" by Steely Dan on bass last night and got a knock on my door at about 10:15pm.  It made my day. 

[stray]

Even a modern solid state bass head can get really loud (I mean, they're usually up in the 400-500 watt range), but if you've got one of those old ampeg heads, that's pretty sick.

As for Sky's amp, I've seen people gig with them often. Couldn't say the same, for say, a twenty watt Peavey.

[Righ]

Its largely to do with circuit efficiency. Depending on the type of power tubes and the circuit used, a tube amplifier may sound 2-5 times louder than a transistor amplifier of similar wattage. Watts are not a measure of volume, just power handling/consumption. Two different solid-state circuits of 100W each may amplify a source by different amounts at the same gain too. More affordable tube circuits tend to allow for greater sustain than their solid state counterparts. This also adds to a perceived increase in volume.

[Selby]

I decided to start playing guitar semi-seriously again since I have a nice amp sitting here and someone has mentioned actually getting together and playing cover songs from Guitar Hero on REAL instruments as a parody, so I've re-started a routine again.  I picked up some Bad Religion over the past few days and it's gone pretty well, feeling pretty good.  Then I decided to open back up and re-start the Slayer setlist I used to be able to run through.  I started with a quick one, The Antichrist and remembered all the chord changes and whatnot then I ran it through a few times.  My hands are killing me now.  I am seriously out of practice.  But having a nice amp sure makes up for all the shit sound I used to have back in high school and college, so I don't sound completely terrible (just mostly terrible).

[stray]

I wish I could play Behind the Crooked Cross. Probably the grooviest thing they ever did (as much as Slayer can get into a groove at least). I know how to play it.. Just can't do it for long. Too much downpicking for me. And that's a slower Slayer song!

[Sky]

I can tell you this; my neighbors hate my 2x15 bass box.  My ampeg head makes my basement shake.  I was playing "Peg" by Steely Dan on bass last night and got a knock on my door at about 10:15pm.  It made my day. 

I miss my old rig. It was the cheapest thing imaginable, the (solid state) amp was something our singer used to use in rehearsals, but ended up having absolutely sick tone, a Kasino Koncert, iirc. Don't remember the wattage, but through my peavey 2x15 loaded with a couple 400W EV full ranges it was sick. Real loud but tight and punchy.

I've probably mentioned I now have a decent ampeg 8x10, but can't work up the budget to get a decent head for it. And of course, some new pickups for my bass at some point, too. The blues guys from the jam all wish I'd take up bass again, so many guitarists around. That's why I'm trying to work on vocals, because a guitarist + vocals is way more desirable (and fun), and gives the house band a break from singing. So you're hearing more bass in my recordings as I learn some blues lines (at least more authentic than Geezer lines like I played in Thrill is Gone, heh).

Downpicking. Mine is sad these days. Back in the mid-80s when I was still playing guitar and we were doing thrash...I was a downpicking monster, although the other guy in my band was a genetic freak of precise timing, so I always worked syncopated stuff around that. I remember some local guitarists that tried to sit in with us once Metallica got big, everyone loved to cover Master. We played it double time, heh. Was cool and punky. Trying to downpick it at album speed is just beyond what I can sustain now, I can do some short sections but the verse sections break down. And that's a pretty slow downpicked song imo (at least, the album version).

[Sky]

Just saw these guys. Wish I had grabbed a vid of their opening suite of Bach stuff (Bach is my favorite composer by far).

Went home and played my entire book of Bach Inventions. Fiancee was happy, she asked me "How many people do you think got a third set of guitar tonight?" :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S1MQeCsnAE

[Abagadro]

Ok, I'm sure this has been covered, but maybe not in these exact terms, so whatever.

I'm thinking about picking up the axe again after 15 years. My old guitar was stolen years ago, so recommend a good model for me to grab that doesn't cost a fortune. I'm a big fan of the Les Paul Cherry Sunburst if that give you any indication of the style I'm looking for. I'd say my budget tops out at around a grand.

[Selby]

I'm thinking about picking up the axe again after 15 years.

I would personally just go around to various pawn shops in the area and play what they have and buy the cheapest guitar that you like that doesn't have major issues like a warped neck or broken tuners.  If you stick with it and enjoy it afterwards, then look into getting a newer guitar.  My favorite guitar is this one:



which I picked up at a pawn shop for $50.  It plays better and feels nicer than almost every higher end guitar I've played in the music shops.  It was darn well worth it to wait despite the fact that everyone gives me shit about how awful it looks.

[Sky]

Try out the Epiphone Les Pauls. But really, I found the best bet is to hit the local music stores and play everything. Everything! I went in expecting to buy a strat and now I'm a total Gibson SG convert. Well, 61 reissue convert, most SGs suck.

I'm still kicking myself for not buying the limited edition run of 400 black with gold hardware 61 reissues. Grr, damn you, self!

Boom ka-blam: linky

[stray]

If you're willing to spend just under a grand, you've opened a lot of options for yourself. No offense to Selby, but I generally wouldn't recommend pawn shops though. Used guitar shops are better. It's very possible to find a used cherryburst LP in one of them -- and not get fucked in the process.

Or like Sky said, check out some of the Epi's (it's basically Gibson's "budget" brand). Some of the more expensive $1k range Epi's are using better materials than the cheaper $1k range Gibsons. They're equipped with some of the better woods and parts that Gibson uses in it's best guitars, but cheap because they're assembled overseas.

[Selby]

Used guitar shops are better.

Naturally, but the hardest part I had was growing up in a town without one.  There were 2 music shops that sold guitars and entry level price was $800 for an acoustic.  As a 15 year old who wanted to learn to play, that was cost prohibitive from a practical and realistic standpoint ($800 just to find out I dislike it?).  Plus the people that worked there were douchebags who ridiculed your playing style and guitar choices if it didn't match theirs.  I preferred pawn shops because the people left me alone and I took a friend who knew guitars and what to look for with me who said "this is a problem" or "this can be fixed easily."  I always forget that bigger cities have used music shops that may actually contain helpful people ;-)

[stray]

Fair enough!

[stray]

Motherfucker. I've finally got the "hybrid picking" part down on White Wedding -- but now I can't transition the volume right when he starts striking chords afterwards. 

Such a simple song, but playing it the way he does requires some subtle picking mastery.

On another Stevens' note, I found this track : Link

Kinda corny sounding, yes... But pretty cool playing. I thought the beginning was a synth at first.