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f13.net General Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: Sky on February 08, 2005, 03:13:13 PM



Title: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on February 08, 2005, 03:13:13 PM
I started a reply to a pm from Stray (from a while back, it's not very personal so I hope he doesn't mind, pm if you do, Stray), but I figured maybe it'd spark some conversation from the musicians in the crowd, and imo we need more music talk!

Anyway, here's the quote I was addressing:
Quote
I try downtuning, but the sound just gets muddy, and the strings seem a little loose and "wobbly", if you know what I mean. Is it almost necessary to get a 7-string? Or are nu-metal guitarists using octave pedals or something? Where the hell does all that low end come from, man?
We were talking about tone and gear. I didn't have any experience in newer gear, so at the time I couldn't really provide a decent answer.

Lately, I've been thinking of ditching my cheesy cheapo guitar and buying a 'real' guitar. Also been playing sickly downtuned, inspired by my recent purchase of the live Black Label Society discs. Since I hate the idea of a 7-string guitar, I started looking into baritone guitars, which are very nice indeed. Fills an aural gap I often have playing either the guitar or bass, sounds heavy as hell and great for squeels and bends.

I think for the time being I'm going to shoot for a standard guitar (probably a les paul studio, can't afford custom with the tastier necks).

But one thing of interest I learned from my blues buddy, Jimmy Wolf (http://jimmywolf.iuma.com), who uses a baritone when he plays without a bass player (duo with drummer). He avoids the mud that baritone and downtuned guitars suffer by cranking up the mids most guitarists scoop out for a heavy sound these days. It cleaned up a lot of the sound, though there's obviously a lot farther you can take it, but that little bit helped me out (and was obvious once he said it). Didn't do much for the muddiness when palm-muting, though, but then, I'm still on an extremely downtuned standard guitar.

Anyone else want to talk guitar playing or gear? And if I'm playing a mmog with you and suddenly disappear...I'm playing guitar and forgot I'm logged in ;)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Righ on February 08, 2005, 03:54:27 PM
I have nothing to add here, except that I want one of these basses:

(http://www.spaltbasses.com/images/lwpage1.jpg)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: MisterNoisy on February 08, 2005, 04:02:54 PM
You're well aware of my n00bishness when it comes to all things guitar, but I'm all about this sort of thing, particularly where gear is concerned.  I may not have talent/skill, but I do have disposable income.  :P

Have you checked out the Schecter Hellcat VI?  

(http://www.schecterguitars.com/Dproducts/2004_models/hellcat_VI/hellcat_VI_blk.jpg)

Sounds like what you're looking for gear-wise.  I played with one for a little at the Mobile GC and was pretty impressed w/fit/finish.  30" scale(!) and 3 'buckers.  It really punches out that 'chunka-chunka' sound it sounds like you're looking for.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on February 08, 2005, 08:49:39 PM
I had the good fortune of speaking with Tommy Victor after that PM (singer/guitar of Prong, current guitarist for Danzig). Straight from the horse's mouth! He gave me the rundown on baritones, and recommended the Schecter C1-EX (the Schecter Scorpion is similar, just a different body shape -- the Hellcat has a 30" scale and is kind of in a category of it's own). It's a 6 string slim neck, with a slightly longer scale to compensate for the big strings (String size is 13 to 62 -- standard tuning is B to B, but can go even lower than that and still sound great. The Hellcat is too crazy for me -- 25 to 95).

Funny that you mentioned this though. I finally gathered enough spare cash that I ordered one this morning, in fact. I'm not sure if it'll replace my SG or Fenders, but I understand what you're saying about that aural gap between bass and guitar. It may not be standard, but somehow this sounds just right. I'm also 6'4", and the extended scale feels perfect...Like a bass. Yet, it isn't a bass.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/lonestar627/Misc/bj_c1_ex_blk_pop.jpg)
C1-EX - Simple, but pretty

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/lonestar627/Misc/scorpion_sbk_pop.jpg)
Scorpion - Same great sound, but a little tacky for my tastes


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on February 09, 2005, 07:00:16 AM
I think for the time being I'm going to shoot for a standard guitar (probably a les paul studio, can't afford custom with the tastier necks).

Since you like Black Label, why not go for a Zakk model (Supposedly the Epiphone models are still pretty good....but about $2000 dollars cheaper)? From what I understand, he downtunes to the C range on some of his guitars, but still sounds great. Not exactly what baritones are capable of, but that's low enough.

I'm sure it's possible to get a LP Studio to do some of the same things, but I think the ZW necks are a little different than most LP models (not sure about that). I was thinking of doing the same with my SG, but figured it best to keep it how it is, since it's my only Gibson.

A couple of things to do is get the neck set up to handle really thick strings. Supposedly, Zakk's signature GHS strings (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=home/search/detail/base_pid/100447/) are perfect for it : He uses very thick guages for rhythm (70), but normal guages on the high notes for leads (10). The EMG active pickups (EMG 81's and 85's) on his models boost a lot of midrange as well (among other things), so you're friend may be on to something.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on February 09, 2005, 10:54:05 AM
He says he shaves the necks down, I'm not sure if he's just talking shaving off the finish or if he actually digs down deeper to change the shape at all. He says he's going for the feel of a baseball bat, heh. But yeah, I was checking out his model, it seems to make a lot of the upgrades I'd need anyway...I just hate to have another guitarist's recognizable pattern on my guitar :) Like playing Eddie's black and red or something. Just feels cheesy.

Part of the issue I have with BLS tuning, they super detune the low string, I prefer standard tuning, which is why I was thinking about the baritones. Get some of the low end but keep the standard tuning. I dunno, might just have to learn to play detuned (I can do drop d, it's just annoying imo, though it makes basic power chords simple, I guess).

That Schecter looks nice, I need to get myself to a decent guitar shop (long drive, over an hour heh). Kinda looks like a PRS imo. I don't like the shallowed body scoop of the Scorpion, though, looks like it's not as friendly to playing on the higher frets. Thanks for the heads-up.

Bought the BLS concert DVD, pretty nice. Besides being a great show (and Trujillo on bass), there is a bit from some guitar instruction thing Zakk did, three solos. I ran through those and watching him riff just brought me back to the days of shred, so I did some shred practice and learned just how much stamina I've lost. Great practice, though, and highlighted the fact that I never learned a good climbing arpeggio to match my descending arpeggios. My landlord must've thought someone else was playing, because I'd rip out the descending and then struggle to find a good picking pattern (hint: alternate picking ain't cutting it, heh) for teh ascending, and it's all sloppy and mistimed...and then rip back down the descending. I got a kick out of sounding like total garbage, oddly enough. Fun to learn something I've let slide for decades. Also hilarious to hear Zakk, who's a boozing, cussing redneck, give a lesson, trying to be polite and aiming it toward younger guitarists, obviously.
Quote from: Mr N
It really punches out that 'chunka-chunka' sound it sounds like you're looking for.
Yeah, that's the dilemma...I want a nice guitar for my more aggressive stuff, and a baritone is perfect. But I really need to get hands-on to see how it fits with all the other stuff I play. I definitely need a good acoustic, too, love playing acoustic guitar, I love the rich tone and percussiveness. Maybe what I really need is a second job ;)
Quote from: Righ
I have nothing to add here, except that I want one of these basses:
Nice looking bass. I'd like to get a Warwick bass (http://www.warwickbass.com/basses/thumb_bass.html) if I had the dough. Hell, even some new pickups (bartolini PJs) for my old ESP Custom bass (bought at their shop in hollyweird directly from the luthier!)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Righ on February 09, 2005, 10:59:43 AM
Nice looking bass. I'd like to get a Warwick bass (http://www.warwickbass.com/basses/thumb_bass.html) if I had the dough. Hell, even some new pickups (bartolini PJs) for my old ESP Custom bass (bought at their shop in hollyweird directly from the luthier!)

I'd love one of those too! All I have is the getting started bass from Ibanez. Of course, I haven't been playing it enough to really get started. Fucking computer games.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on February 09, 2005, 11:52:46 AM
Part of the issue I have with BLS tuning, they super detune the low string, I prefer standard tuning, which is why I was thinking about the baritones. Get some of the low end but keep the standard tuning. I dunno, might just have to learn to play detuned (I can do drop d, it's just annoying imo, though it makes basic power chords simple, I guess).

Heh, I'm what you'd call a "slow hand". Don't feel bad about losing any of the shredding capabilities that you had -- I never really had them to begin with. I'm mainly into rhythm, or songwriting, I guess....Pretty much stink at everything else. So I won't have some of the issues with baritones that I suspect you may have. Hard to say. It could be just that I suck at leads in the first place.  :wink:

For what it's worth, reviewers on Harmony Central seem to be of all types though. Some lead players, some not, but just about all of them consider it (or the Scorpion) one of the better guitars they've ever played. And for $500, it's a steal. It may not be American made, but very rarely are guitars with the same features that cheap. The only thing I'm going to replace is the bridge pickup with a Dimebucker. But after that, I don't really see much to improve.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Miguel on February 09, 2005, 01:37:39 PM
Here is my experience with detuning:

Dropped D - works well for a heavy sound, and can make some heavy licks a bit easier to play.  Works well because you have a complete octave scale within two strings playing basically only two frets.  :-)

Half step down (E flat) - Metallica did this, and SRV used to play like this.  Songs in this tuning are a bit easier to sing (natural E is a difficult scale to sing in for some reason).  String tension is still ok with a standard scale length.

Dropped C - this is where you tune down a full step (D G C F A D), then drop the low D string down a full step (just like dropped D with a standard tuning).  I'm not a big fan of this, but many a metal band has tried this.  For me, the sound gets too muddy because there is no string tension, and you loose a lot of harmonic content.

7 String (low B) - This is my current favorite tuning, because everything is standard.  7 string guitars also have a little bit longer scale length, which means you can maintain string tension at alternate tunings without loosing sustain.  I posted a few song clips I did with my new 7 string here on F13 about a month ago.

I got my 7 string from the Carvin custom shop, and it's a spawn of Satan.  Gloss black, black chrome hardware, and no fret dots.  I'll take some pics of my gear tonight and post them here, if anyone is interested.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on February 09, 2005, 01:41:19 PM
I got my 7 string from the Carvin custom shop, and it's a spawn of Satan.  Gloss black, black chrome hardware, and no fret dots.  I'll take some pics of my gear tonight and post them here, if anyone is interested.

I'm interested  :) How much did it run anyways?


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Miguel on February 09, 2005, 01:52:11 PM
Quote
How much did it run anyways?

It was about $800 delivered, with case.
 (http://www.carvin.com/products/guitar.php?ItemNumber=DC747)
The Carvin custom shop does some really fantastic work, especially considering the cost.  About the only complaint I have with this guitar is the pickups.  I'm thinking of switching to an EMG setup (http://www.emginc.com/displayproducts.asp?section=Guitar&categoryid=6&catalogid=89), which I basically use on ALL my guitars.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on February 09, 2005, 02:08:42 PM
Miguel - that was some good stuff, too. I haven't unchecked it in iTunes yet (bad songs get unchecked quickly, only 2100 songs on my work pc, though), it comes up on random now and again and I have to think "Who the heck is this, pretty good!...Oh, that guy!" If you want to show off your gear, please do! When my band was first getting out and about, we used to keep a current Carvin catalog in our van to drool over the PA systems and whatnot. Always been a solid company imo.

I think part of what I dislike about drop-d is that it's so easy to do basic metal stuff, so a TON of players use it. I don't like things the easy way, I guess, but at the same time, the running transposition of what fret on the "E" string I should be playing when in drop d gets annoying to me. So I use it for stuff I wrote years ago in drop d, but I don't write or play with it otherwise.

I was playing my cheesy guitar (real cheesy, an exgirlfriend's that she left me because she felt pity, a Cort strat knock-off) sickly downtuned, as I mentioned. I just tuned it back up last night, forget what the E was at, but it was waaaay down, I think it was A, the rest tuned to that in standard tuning. Jangly and wicked muddy. Sabbath also played in Eb (flat, heh), I think I'm tuned in standard tuning with the low string at D or Db right now.

Another problem I have with nonstandard tuning is that I can play in any key pretty easily in standard E tuning, and as I say about drop d, it's just annoying to constantly try transposing keys in my head, I'd rather just sit back and play ;) If I'm thinking about scales and signatures, I'm not playing well.
Quote
Heh, I'm what you'd call a "slow hand"
I have spent the last couple years rebulding my chops, and I've really spent a lot more time playing blues than anything else. My good friend is a blues connysewer, and he absolutely hates when people start shredding during a blues song. To be fair, he means inappropriately, and we discussed this because one standard guy at a local open mic is ALWAYS shredding at the wrong time, in the wrong song, with his teeth (I'd even slap Hendrix for that crap, heh). So I almost feel bad about having shred chops, heh. I'm putting them in more now that I have a lot better emotion, I've gotten my bends and phrasing up to snuff (acceptable, anyway), so they are fitting in here and there.

But shredding is definitely only one aspect to what I'm shooting for. I'd like to get a band where I can be polyinstrumental and polygenre, play some reggae, blues, metal, rock, jazz, country, just have fun and jam type thing. Shredding just takes a lot of physical practice, no getting around it, heh...


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on February 10, 2005, 08:30:25 AM
Here's another question: How many guitars, basses, and amps have you owned in your lifetime? Just wondering if you're like me. I'm 27 now, started playing around 12, and off the top of my head, I can think of something around 20 guitars (some pretty good), several basses, and at least 10 amps (some were crappy combos, but not all) that I have passed through my hands. All doomed to pawn shop hell  :evil: It seems like only recently that I've managed to hold on to my gear for more than a few years (don't get me started on effects pedals heh).


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on February 10, 2005, 11:03:08 AM
Oh hell, I don't know. What I do know is that I've never sold anything, it's always been ripped off. I'd estimate maybe a dozen guitars, I find one I like and stick with it. Nothing too fancy, I used to play BC Rich Biches when I was playing a lot of guitar in the band, when I was playing bass, I'd play my guitarist's (very nice) Ibanezes. Ibanezii? For the bass, I started on a Peavey which I had gutted and rebuilt, my sound guy and I redid all the electronics, it was hot as hell, huge body that held a shitton of stickers, super long maple neck. When that got stolen, I used a Rickenbacker for about a year, which was pretty limiting as far as upper fret access, so I bought the ESP custom (kind of a cross between an explorer and a bich) I have now, which has the best neck I've ever played, real long and thin, great action.

Effects, can't count those, either. I was a studio rat in addition to my band being a road dog, we played an average of three or four hours every day for years, not counting individual practice. Part of why I'm such a fan of great live bands. But as a studio rat, I collected a ton of gear, I liked the older effects over the newer digital combo effects units (though that's what I'm using now, because it's cheap and available: a Boss GT-6, decent pedal, but just a placeholder until I can get some decent amps). Stomp pedals, I'd say I've had at least 50 over the years (some traded, most stolen). My favorite stomp pedal is probably the proco rat distortion.

Amps, as a guitarist I was using a Laney full stack. The only thing besides my first guitar my parents bought me, as a high school graduation present (for graduating with honors). Thanks mom and dad, heh. Nice stack for metal stuff, which is where I was then. We had been cobbling old amps together before that, my singer was singing through my old guitar head (for rehearsal, natch). When I moved to bass, I took that guitar head, which was some crazy 60's brand Kustom Lounge or something, but had great raw power without distortion. Put it on a 2-15" Peavey cab loaded out with a couple full range 400W EV speakers. Wicked solid and punchy, I stuck with that cheesy combo through my whole professional bass career, much to the amusement of other bassists....until they heard the tone I pulled from it, then they came with lots of questions, heh. I was alll about the tone, who cares how you get it! After that was stolen, I picked up a cheesy Peavey bass amp (only like 150W, limp) but a couple nice cabs, an Ampeg 8x10" and a Dean Markley 1x15" loaded with my sweet EV 400W full-ranger. That's what I'm playing guitar through as well, these days.

The band also went through a couple PA systems. Got our first one from a retiring local band for a song, complete. We had no clue how to use it at the time, and an art school friend of mine was at a rehearsal and laughed at our setup. Turns out his dad's an electrician and he knows his stuff, so he rewired everything and updated a lot of the cheesy electronics and became our first sound guy (the one who helped customize my peavey bass). When we 'made it' (heh) we bought a sick sound system with 4 4x15"s as the main beef, upgraded our board and rack.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Miguel on February 10, 2005, 04:37:48 PM
I have two different rigs I use depending on what kind of band I'm playing/practicing with at the time:

Rig #1 - Jazz Setup - I am playing a fretless 5 string Carvin with Tomastik Infield flat wound strings.  Gives that great "muwah" sound for jazz.  For amplification, I'm playing through a Sovtek Mig 100B 100W tube bass head, with a ported 4x10" cabinet.  Great gobs of low end, however it can get a bit growly if I turn it up too much.  I'd love to get a real upright double bass but I don't have two grand to throw around at this time.

Rig #2 - Rock Setup - Playing my new Ibanez 5 string (the Music Man copy, SRX505 (http://www.ibanez.com/guitars/guitar.asp?model=SRX505)) with dual humbuckers.  I am using a preamp/power amp setup:  preamp is a SansAmp RBI (http://www.sansamp.com/rbi.html) rack mount preamp, into a QSC 700 watt PLX power amp (http://www.qscaudio.com/products/amps/plx/plx.htm).  Takes up only 3 rack spaces in total, and weight less than 30 pounds total.  Cabinets vary depending on where I am playing:  I have a 2x12" cab I use, and sometimes I use the 4x10" cabinet from the jazz gigs.  I am currently assembling parts to make up one of Len Moskowitz's Compact Bottom Ends (http://www.core-sound.com/bottom-article.html) since I am selling my truck, my main avenue of mass gear transportation.  I don't have a ton of room to lug around huge cabinets anymore.

However I don't use any of this stuff for making recordings, with the exception of the Sanamp RBI.  For everything else I am using a Vamp Pro system from Behringer and recording everything direct using a cabinet simulator.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on February 10, 2005, 06:09:20 PM
Right now, my primary guitars are an SG Special and an American Standard Strat. Everything is pretty much stock atm. I have a couple Tex Mex Teles and Strats, a Tex Mex Jazz Bass (no bass amp atm), and an old Ibanez as well (not sure what model...I just keep it around for the Floyd Rose). And of course, the Schecter is on it's way.

The only gig worthy amp is a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe (40 watts, but tube power!=solid state). When Fenders are plugged in, I'm jacked in through the guitar input. Just Fender tone. Rarely any effects. For the Gibson, I use a V-Amp, but jacked directly into the preamp input, which bypasses the Hot Rod's 12ax7 preamp (Digital modeling preamp with a 6L6 poweramp -- Sweet as hell).

Since I've purchased a Vox Valvetronix (http://www.voxamps.co.uk/products/valvetronix/vt_audition.htm), I use it more often though. It isn't nearly as loud as the Hot Rod, but the tone blows away any of the other digital modelers like Line 6 and Behringer. Compare them yourself. It kind of follows the same principle of what I do with combining the Vamp and the Hotrod's 6L6's (by using real tube saturation for the power stage), but with 12AX7's (at least for saturation. The output is still dependent on a solid state power stage). Not only that, but it models famous stomp boxes as well. The only better combo I could think of is if I purchased a Vox Tonelab (stompbox version of the Valvetronix) and ran it through the power amp of the Hot Rod (like I do with the V-Amp).

EDIT: Hmm...I was just reading that previous paragraph over, and on second glance, it seems a little confusing. My bad.

Anyways, point is: Combining power tube saturation with a digital modeling preamp has given me the best tone (and verstatility as well) for the least amount of cash.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Arnold on February 15, 2005, 05:06:13 AM
Zakk plays a pretty bare bones rig.  His Les Pauls sport EMGs and that's about it.  He tunes 'em down, but you can get the same strings he uses at any big store.  His amplification is strictly 80s and was produced long before the downtuning trend began.  I think he does a  good job at showing that one doesn't need exotic equipment to produce "modern" sounds.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Arnold on February 15, 2005, 05:11:03 AM
Right now, my primary guitars are an SG Special and an American Standard Strat. Everything is pretty much stock atm. I have a couple Tex Mex Teles and Strats, a Tex Mex Jazz Bass (no bass amp atm), and an old Ibanez as well (not sure what model...I just keep it around for the Floyd Rose). And of course, the Schecter is on it's way.

The only gig worthy amp is a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe (40 watts, but tube power!=solid state). When Fenders are plugged in, I'm jacked in through the guitar input. Just Fender tone. Rarely any effects. For the Gibson, I use a V-Amp, but jacked directly into the preamp input, which bypasses the Hot Rod's 12ax7 preamp (Digital modeling preamp with a 6L6 poweramp -- Sweet as hell).

Since I've purchased a Vox Valvetronix (http://www.voxamps.co.uk/products/valvetronix/vt_audition.htm), I use it more often though. It isn't nearly as loud as the Hot Rod, but the tone blows away any of the other digital modelers like Line 6 and Behringer. Compare them yourself. It kind of follows the same principle of what I do with combining the Vamp and the Hotrod's 6L6's (by using real tube saturation for the power stage), but with 12AX7's (at least for saturation. The output is still dependent on a solid state power stage). Not only that, but it models famous stomp boxes as well. The only better combo I could think of is if I purchased a Vox Tonelab (stompbox version of the Valvetronix) and ran it through the power amp of the Hot Rod (like I do with the V-Amp).

EDIT: Hmm...I was just reading that previous paragraph over, and on second glance, it seems a little confusing. My bad.

Anyways, point is: Combining power tube saturation with a digital modeling preamp has given me the best tone (and verstatility as well) for the least amount of cash.

I've always had a thing for Line6 because they have dedicated themselves to 100% digital.  Their newest software is pretty damn good, IMO.

But if you want to combine digital with loud, run a line out from your Valvetronix, into the line in of your HRD, which will bypass the preamp section of your HRD.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on February 16, 2005, 04:24:17 PM
So...Just got that Schecter today. The top string is creating a lot of fret buzz, but since baritones and 7 strings are kind of new to me, I'm not sure if I should try adjusting it myself or not. I don't want to fuck with the truss rod. At a glance, the neck looks OK, so I don't think that's it anyways.

Do you think a simple bridge adjustment may work, or should I just take it to a shop? Did any of you with baritones or 7-strings need additional setup after you got 'em?


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: CmdrSlack on February 16, 2005, 04:50:40 PM
Not on the topic of gear (cause my bass is a sucky one for fooling around on), but on the topic of guitars....

Does anyone know of a good place to find scales/drills for bass to build dexterity/speed?

I'm tired of seeing how fast I can play a 12 bar blues progression....


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: MisterNoisy on February 16, 2005, 04:50:56 PM
So...Just got that Schecter today. The top string is creating a lot of fret buzz, but since baritones and 7 strings are kind of new to me, I'm not sure if I should try adjusting it myself or not. I don't want to fuck with the truss rod. At a glance, the neck looks OK, so I don't think that's it anyways.

Do you think a simple bridge adjustment may work, or should I just take it to a shop? Did any of you with baritones or 7-strings need additional setup after you got 'em?

Where's it buzzing?  Nearer the headstock or the bridge?


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: MisterNoisy on February 16, 2005, 04:51:36 PM
Not on the topic of gear (cause my bass is a sucky one for fooling around on), but on the topic of guitars....

Does anyone know of a good place to find scales/drills for bass to build dexterity/speed?

I'm tired of seeing how fast I can play a 12 bar blues progression....

http://www.activebass.com/lessons/lessdir.asp
http://www.cyberfretbass.com/


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on February 16, 2005, 06:16:46 PM
So...Just got that Schecter today. The top string is creating a lot of fret buzz, but since baritones and 7 strings are kind of new to me, I'm not sure if I should try adjusting it myself or not. I don't want to fuck with the truss rod. At a glance, the neck looks OK, so I don't think that's it anyways.

Do you think a simple bridge adjustment may work, or should I just take it to a shop? Did any of you with baritones or 7-strings need additional setup after you got 'em?

Where's it buzzing?  Nearer the headstock or the bridge?

Both....Think I solved most of it though. I called Schecter up and they told me to just loosen the truss rod one turn. I might need to raise the bridge a tiny bit too, not sure. There's still a little buzz, but not as much before, especially when plugged in. Now it sounds like another one I played, so I guess I'm cool.

Next stop: New pickups  :-D

This guitar is frickin' sweet as it is though. And the next chance I get, I'm gonna have to buy a standard tuning C-Series Schecter as well.

Sky: In case you lose interest in the baritones, you should still try one of the normal Schecters. They're a fuckload better than any Gibson or Fender in the same price range. Hell, even better than some models that cost twice as much...and a Schecter is versatile enough to sound like both.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: MisterNoisy on February 16, 2005, 08:15:28 PM
Both....Think I solved most of it though. I called Schecter up and they told me to just loosen the truss rod one turn. I might need to raise the bridge a tiny bit too, not sure. There's still a little buzz, but not as much before, especially when plugged in. Now it sounds like another one I played, so I guess I'm cool.

Next stop: New pickups  :-D

Sweet!  :)

Quote
This guitar is frickin' sweet as it is though. And the next chance I get, I'm gonna have to buy a standard tuning C-Series Schecter as well.

Sky: In case you lose interest in the baritones, you should still try one of the normal Schecters. They're a fuckload better than any Gibson or Fender in the same price range. Hell, even better than some models that cost twice as much...and a Schecter is versatile enough to sound like both.

(http://namm.harmony-central.com/WNAMM05/Content/Schecter/PR/Banshee-Marine-Metallic-sm.jpg)

This upcoming Schecter model has me drooling something fierce, but I really dig vintage-style guitars.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: trias_e on February 16, 2005, 08:26:21 PM
I love my schecter, it's a Blackjack C-1.

I mainly play metal, but this guitar has got some versatility.  The stock pickups have a quite nice sound to my eyes, clean or distortion.

I don't know a ton about guitars by any means, I just know what I like.  And I like this.  Probably better than anything else I've played thats priced around 500 bucks, although the ESP Viper 400 for me definitely was up there as well.


(http://www.schecterguitars.com/Dproducts/2004_models/bj_c1/bj_c1_blk_pop.jpg)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on February 16, 2005, 09:34:04 PM
The C-1 is exactly like mine, except the EX is extended scale. Other than that, same good guitar.

To derail a bit:

I hate drummers.

At least I do right now. Lately, it seems like every one of them wants to be the next Neil Peart. I'm tired of that shit -- play a fucking song damnit! Everything I've tried to get going lately turns into session of watching the drummer getting his rocks off -- at the exclusion of everyone else (i.e. the song). With all due respect to Neil, fuck him. Fuck Keith Moon and fuck Dave Lombardo too. Give me Charlie Watts instead.

Better yet, I'll just use a sequencer.

edit: Heh...Sorry, bad night.

Oh, and don't correct me on Neil. I'm just ranting. I know full well what he's capable of, and that he himself has no problem with song structure. Hell, he's even the primary songwriter for his band. I just don't get the deal with some of the guys I've run into lately. I've accomplished nothing with any of them. Seems to me like they've been playing by themselves for far too long.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on February 17, 2005, 08:39:05 AM
Shit, that's why I'm not in a band. I've sauntered through the musical community in my backwater town and found it sorely lacking. I did find one good drummer, but he's in a long term project that I thought sucked. Too bad, that cat was good on drums and could play guitar, too (which was cool because it let me get some time on the bass).

I like active, syncopated drummers. I don't like drummers who play stock beats, straight 4/4 rock beats, that stuff. That said, I assume a drummer can play to the song and stay in time, etc. If you can't even do that, you need a few more year's practice with people who need practice. I mean, I feel I need a ton of practice, but with higher level stuff, not just playing the song and keeping it in time.

The other side of it is personality. I like strong, confident players, but not egotistical ones. Unfortunately, it seems in this local arena, confidence and ego seem to go hand in hand. One kid I was going to approach for bass duties in my project totally blew it one night. Walked into an open mic night and I was jamming with the aforementioned wicked drummer, improving some tasty metal and shredding some leads (we were talking about doing a totally improvisational metal project. well more than talking, heh) and the bassist walked in. At first I was excited, I wanted him in on this project...and he just played some off the wall shit, out of tune and time, basically killed the jam we had going. When we stopped, he kept asking us if we wanted to play some Primus. After he asked like a dozen times (literally), in the interest of not being seen as the local jerk guitarist, I set the guitar down and hit the bar with the drummer, leaving the kid alone on stage. He then went to the mic and started asking the house if anyone wanted to play Primus. I hate folks who get so hung up on one artist like that, if I really like an artist, I intentionally try to NOT learn their music, to avoid getting stuck on them and not developing my own sound. I'd heard the kid (bassist) was a pita to work with, but then, so am I, heh. But apparently I'm a bit less so....unless you want to play Primus, I guess. There's also a tension, because I used to be the pre-eminent bassist in my podunk town before my band moved on to pursue a professional career, I think he always held that against me and was trying to show off. Of course, I was also the last of the traditional Geezer Butler/Cliff Burton type bassists, after our band most bands started with that slap bass crap. I can appreciate it, I think Les Claypool is nothing short of an amazing genius...just totally not my thing.

Funny thing is...I watched Some Kind of Monster last night, and seeing Cliff always inspires me. I got to the audition scene and was surprised at how many 'big name' bass players (jeordi white, danny lohner, eric avery, etc) just don't have much going on. They could barely play Seek&Destroy, a song that was so overplayed in our old scene that I actually boycotted it (and creeping death). Now.,..I was a guitarist back then, I don't actually know any metallica songs (well, a few like master of puppets, battery, and shortest straw) on bass. But I picked up the bass and wailed through the audition, I guess part of it is that Cliff was such an influence, got me into music theory, and the jammy Geezer, so I tend to jam through pieces more (leaving room for the singer and solos, natch, it's a balancing act). And I'm sure being in my living room cut down on the stress of jamming with metallica, heh. Anyway, point it, I've been working on my guitar chops for a few years now and I can still pick up the bass and destroy my guitar playing, like riding a bike (except for the massive blood blisters because I play so hard hehe).

/morning ramble where's my caffeine whew that was a ramblation sorry


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: HaemishM on February 17, 2005, 10:09:58 AM
Neil Peart is a great drummer. But like you both said, he plays to the song and adds his personality moments TO the song, instead of in spite of the song. Any asshead who wants to be in a band has to learn it isn't all about him and his instrument. Same with Les Claypool. Outstanding bass player, but if he tried to play the Primus type stuff in a Metallica joint, it would totally fuck the song up, because they wouldn't mesh. I don't play anymore, but I at least understand that colloborative projects like bands require compromise on all fronts, or you end up sounding like Yngwie Malmsteen.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: trias_e on February 17, 2005, 10:49:15 AM
What, is there something wrong with liking 'Rising Force'?

......


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: HaemishM on February 17, 2005, 10:57:01 AM
Nothing wrong with liking Malmsteen, I just think he's a great guitarist who can't write a good song to save his life. He's too caught up in scales and blistering solos to worry about melody, harmony and good hooks.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: trias_e on February 17, 2005, 11:02:57 AM
I agree actually, my elipses were more of a contemplation on the probably non-existant possibility of internet sarcasm...


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on February 17, 2005, 11:04:49 AM
Ygnwie was extremely talented, and put on a great live show, too.

But his albums were nothing more than musical masturbation, lacking soul entirely. I wonder if I can still play Black Star...


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Righ on February 17, 2005, 11:13:11 AM
The Oysterhead album consisting of Claypool, Anastasio and Copeland is brilliance. Peart was the wrong example for the arrogant drummer. You should have used Carl Palmer. Brilliant, but prone to excesses that compromise the music.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on February 17, 2005, 11:28:16 AM
I've got just about everything Les has put to disc :) Oysterhead does indeed rock, there are a couple tracks floating around the net, maybe from the official site or Les's site, leftovers from the studio sessions. Just a couple nice little ditties. Another great disc is the 2 cds (sold seperately) from a live show the Flying Frog Brigade did. First disc is mostly Les and Sausage tunes plus Shine On You Crazy Diamond. Second disc is the entirity of my favorite Pink Floyd album, Animals. I always wanted to play it live in its entirity, Les lived my vision. Pretty cool.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Miguel on February 17, 2005, 01:22:17 PM
Quote
Funny thing is...I watched Some Kind of Monster last night, and seeing Cliff always inspires me. I got to the audition scene and was surprised at how many 'big name' bass players (jeordi white, danny lohner, eric avery, etc) just don't have much going on.

I'm glad someone else picked up on this!  I too watched this a few nights ago, and thought the exact same things!

Now I wonder a bit:  those additions happened about 35 miles from where I live, could I have done better than those douchebags?  Could I have gotten a 1 million dollar signing deal, and been granted a red name on F13? :)

Where is the talent today?  Where did all the bass gods go?


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on February 17, 2005, 01:35:04 PM
Well..the thought of what would I have done did occur to me (I was on the wrong coast at the time, anyway). So as they were jamming Seek & Destroy, I picked up my bass and ripped that out, sounding better than everyone but Trujillo (who definitely deserves the job, he totally rocks imo). Then I thought further as to what /I/ would have done, and that's pretty easy: play Anesthesia/Pulling Teeth! I've played that for so many years I have rewritten and extended some sections, it's familiar yet different than the original. And Lars jams through part of it, and I'd bet he doesn't get to sit and jam it out with a creative bass player too much, so it may have been fun for him. The song which follows it on the album was Whiplash, which I never really knew on bass. But I know the song backward and forward, we listened to so much metallica as kids, so I was able to wail out Whiplash, as well.

Then I saw the conference James, Lars, and Kirk had and one thing they were amazed by was Trujillo playing Whiplash with his fingers, and using his index finger as a pick for the sections that are physically impossible to play with traditional alternating fingerpicking, and how they hadn't seen anyone play it like that since Cliff...and I had just set my bass down after doing so. I felt pretty damned good after that, even though I've been focused on guitar. Or maybe because I've been focused on guitar.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Righ on February 18, 2005, 09:37:30 AM
\Where is the talent today?  Where did all the bass gods go?

Have you seen Bela Fleck and the Flecktones live? Victor Wooten is a GOD. As good as Pastorius ever was.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Arnold on February 19, 2005, 05:40:37 AM
Neil Peart is a great drummer. But like you both said, he plays to the song and adds his personality moments TO the song, instead of in spite of the song. Any asshead who wants to be in a band has to learn it isn't all about him and his instrument. Same with Les Claypool. Outstanding bass player, but if he tried to play the Primus type stuff in a Metallica joint, it would totally fuck the song up, because they wouldn't mesh. I don't play anymore, but I at least understand that colloborative projects like bands require compromise on all fronts, or you end up sounding like Yngwie Malmsteen.

Which is why Metallica didn't hire Claypool when he tried out for them after Cliff Burton died.

Also, LOT'S of bands cover thier ears and say "na na na!" the second any drummer says he worships Neil Peart.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on February 23, 2005, 04:56:03 AM
"slow hand"

Hah! One good thing about having that baritone around: I'm flying on my other guitars now. If I was into shredding, this would be as good a practice technique as any.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on February 23, 2005, 08:39:47 AM
Speed really isn't much of an issue for me, my first band started on thrash metal. I'm also trying to get in more time on the bass, which is great for finger strength. It's more finger articulation, I'm trying to force myself to re-learn theory. I really hated school and textbooks, so it's been tough going, I learn a couple little things and just start jamming. I can jam for hours on end if I stick to minor and mixolydians, I struggle with everything else. Great for metal, some rock, and blues, but I'd like to master at least major playing as well. Luckily, one thing that did stick from my (years) of theory was fretboard integration, I'm still pretty decent at playing something anywhere on the neck and rusty but still can transpose in realtime.

Got my transposition skills in the theater, oddly enough, playing in the house band for my high school production of Grease. It was so very cool to have a real band playing those rock-n-roll tunes, but our teacher (and my renfaire wench!) insisted on using drama club actors, not singers. So we had to transpose every song to a key the actor was comfortable with. 

I talked with my buddy who I mentioned plays baritones in his duo setup (he has three marketed setups: solo, duo with a drummer, and trio) and I think I might just stick with a standard tuning guitar for now, because I really need a nice guitar and I tend to drift across styles, so I'd be better off with the most versatile instrument, getting the baritone down the road somewhere. I'm extremely good at talking myself out of buying expensive things, I've needed a new guitar for years.

I just need a house of my own a lot more (for a studio I want to build).


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Samwise on February 23, 2005, 12:36:24 PM
This being the guitar thread, I'll barge in with a request for advice.  My beloved old acoustic guitar seems to be losing its bridge (looks like the pressure from the strings is slowly but surely prying it loose).  Is this something I can remedy myself with commonly available tools (like, say, wood glue), or should I bring it to the guitar hospital and show it to somebody who knows what they're doing?


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on February 23, 2005, 03:12:47 PM
This being the guitar thread, I'll barge in with a request for advice.  My beloved old acoustic guitar seems to be losing its bridge (looks like the pressure from the strings is slowly but surely prying it loose).  Is this something I can remedy myself with commonly available tools (like, say, wood glue), or should I bring it to the guitar hospital and show it to somebody who knows what they're doing?

Yeah, it's doable, but I wouldn't recommend it. Acoustics need a tech's hand moreso than electrics, and it usually won't cost much anyways. Also, they'll find other things to adjust in the process of fixing the bridge, and getting it sounding as good as it can in every aspect (usually for free).


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Samwise on February 23, 2005, 05:54:54 PM
I'll bring it to a reputable instrumentician then.   :-)  Thanks!


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on February 24, 2005, 08:20:46 AM
Stray, is your sig being dynamically generated?


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on February 24, 2005, 08:39:03 AM
Stray, is your sig being dynamically generated?

Yeah, I'm using the Audioscrobbler plug-in that Big Gulp pointed out (http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=2263.0) the other day. Pretty cool.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on March 07, 2005, 06:57:14 AM
http://cyberjamarchive.com/mp3-uploads/bach-chaconne.mp3

Free music. Bach in Drop D  :-D

Damn, I don't know if I'm crying from the beauty of the song, or the fact that I'll never be this good  :cry:


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: SirBruce on March 07, 2005, 07:30:56 AM
That's weird; I don't see Stray's sig anymore.

Bruce


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on March 07, 2005, 07:50:53 AM
I took it off. Just for you  :-o


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on March 24, 2005, 01:52:36 AM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/lonestar627/Misc/Jaguar_HH.jpg)
Jaguar HH

Oh my.

This comes out at just the wrong time too. Just when I thought I had all the humbucking guitars I'd want, Fender comes out with this. I was actually planning on getting another Strat, or a Jazzmaster, but damn, I can't resist. My affinity for old "twangy" guitars is going to have to wait.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on March 24, 2005, 08:53:52 AM
That's a nice looking guitar, good price on it, too. I like the electronics, some nice options for pickup control. I think I might be going with a standard maple neck strat for my next guitar, I've been playing rosewood (on El Cheapo...hey I have an idea for a new headstock graphic!) necks for a few years now. I kinda wish that guitar had an ebony neck (which is what I've specced for my humbucking guitar, a les paul as of now, but daaamn are they expensive) Back in the day I played maple necks (because I mostly played strats). But I'd like to tap the pickups like that, phase inversion ftw and whatnot.

I'm holding out for the baritone Jag ;) New guitar #3, ETA: 2112, heh. But I'm thinking #1 is the black american hardtail strat, maple neck (I'm no whammy man, I've always taken the bar off and twist the body use the string beyond the nut, or move the bridge itself, etc, I hurt guitars when I play :) Heck, I wear down the thickest picks I can find, too...)

That bach piece was cool, reminds me of being in school. I could never play that cleanly, I've always been more about passion. Well, not always, I used to think Jimmy Page was way too sloppy when I was a kid just starting out, heh. But after going to school to learn how to play classical, I wanted to play dirty. After going to recording school, I wanted to underproduce my sound. I was actually working through a paganini piece I found in a magazine, but I dropped it because really all I do is sit back and wail. I've always found it much better to listen to an hour or so of good classical music and then apply the theory, the structure, but not try to imitate the actual work. Thus my 'improv classical' stuff, which snakes into my blues in an odd way (I mostly do slow minor blues). Tough to pull off without sounding like a wanker showing off, I strive for that balance and it can be really sweet and different.

/ramble


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on March 24, 2005, 03:25:19 PM
That's a nice looking guitar, good price on it, too. I like the electronics, some nice options for pickup control. I think I might be going with a standard maple neck strat for my next guitar, I've been playing rosewood (on El Cheapo...hey I have an idea for a new headstock graphic!) necks for a few years now. I kinda wish that guitar had an ebony neck (which is what I've specced for my humbucking guitar, a les paul as of now, but daaamn are they expensive) Back in the day I played maple necks (because I mostly played strats). But I'd like to tap the pickups like that, phase inversion ftw and whatnot.

Yeah, I prefer maple necks too. The strats and teles I have now are all maple. But I've always wanted a Fender with a 60's C-Shape neck. The ones with a 7.25 radius. To me, the Fender 60's models are perfect.

All 7.25 C Shaped necks are rosewood though (at least that I know of). The cheapest model with a neck like that is the 60's reissue Strat and the Jaguar HH above. Further up, the vintage Jags and the Jazzmaster. Further up from that, the "relic" and "NOS" models. And of course, further up from that, a real 60's model. All rosewood though. The only way I can get a 60's shape neck with maple is through the custom shop (and one day I'll get just that!...I just need more.....money).

Anyways, I don't prefer rosewood, but I don't hate it either. I just have to accept my options. For now, I was in the market for either the 60's reissue (Mex made guitar, but to me, those things feel better than many of their expensive American models), or I was going to throw down for a Jazzmaster (which I've ALWAYS wanted, but end up talking my self out of for one reason or another).

The Jags, on the other hand, have never been what I want out of a Fender. The short scale of a Gibson = one of the more un-Fender-like guitars they make. To top it off, these new ones have humbuckers and no tremolo bar. The thing that's appealing to me here is the looks!

I really should be talking myself out of this. Heh.

I dunno. I still want to get it, but I just know I'll regret it sooner or later. I already have a Gibson and an Ibanez (and that Schecter baritone as well). I really don't need another "hot" guitar. I barely play the ones I have.

Which brings me to another thing: I've been "experimenting" too much lately. Nothing wrong with that, of course, but it really isn't getting me anywhere. It's just for kicks....but it ends up costing me. I'm starting to realize that my best playing is always going to come through with single coils. That Fender "quack" sound. Same goes for what I prefer to listen to. While I love players like Angus, Townsend, B.B. King, Iommi, Page, and metal guitarists in general, I worship players like Jimi, Keith Richards, SRV, Dick Dale, and Tom Verlaine (and if you haven't heard Tom, go out and get the Television album Marquee Moon. He's subtle, and not necessarily "rockin'", but it's beautiful nonetheless).

Anywho...I didn't realize you were into Fenders as well. Cool deal, man. "Hardtail" or not  :-P

Quote
Thus my 'improv classical' stuff, which snakes into my blues in an odd way (I mostly do slow minor blues). Tough to pull off without sounding like a wanker showing off, I strive for that balance and it can be really sweet and different.

I'm kinda the same way, but I'm not exactly sure to what extent I'm using the minor scale. I know jack about theory. I wish I did. Someone told me once that I'm messing around in mixolydian...But I don't even know that means. As far as injecting bluesy stuff into "classical" type improv playing, I know that I'm bringing blues technique into that style (i.e. bends and the like), but really, it's not the blues either :-)

To make it even more confusing, if I'm playing classical sounding stuff, I came up with a weird tuning to play it in (I doubt I really "came up" with it actually. I'm sure it's listed somewhere, but I did find it intuitively on my own).  D-A-D-G-A#-D --- Basically, Keith Richards' or Open G slide tuning, except with the B string tuned to A#. With the way I tune it, one finger bar chords are in minor instead of major. Not bluesy like Open G at all, but it's still pretty interesting.

Overall, I kind of suck at "real" classical or blues. I've been playing for about 15 years now, and I've gotten pretty good at this "other thing" I'm doing though. It makes sense musically, that much I know, but I'm not sure how to identify scales and modes. There's some classical melody in my tunes, some blues and jazz technique, applied through the freakout aesthetics of Jazz horn players like Coltrane/Davis, with the "twangy" sounds of Dick Dale and Duane Eddy. Heh. That's all I know. I've tried learning theory from time to time, but without a teacher, it isn't easy.

Rhythm wise: Whatever works, I guess!  :wink: I usually prefer single note melodies in my rhythms rather than strumming chords though.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Arnold on March 25, 2005, 03:39:01 AM

I'm kinda the same way, but I'm not exactly sure to what extent I'm using the minor scale. I know jack about theory. I wish I did. Someone told me once that I'm messing around in mixolydian...But I don't even know that means. As far as injecting bluesy stuff into "classical" type improv playing, I know that I'm bringing blues technique into that style (i.e. bends and the like), but really, it's not the blues either :-)


The Mixolydian mode is basically the major scale, with a flat 7th interval.  But it does matter what chord you play it over.  If you're playing over a C chord, you play C D E F G A Bb.  However, if you are playing over,say, a I IV V progression, you can't play those same notes and have it be "mixolydian" the whole time; you have to change with the chord changes(C D E F G A Bb/ F G A Bb C D Eb/G A B C D E F).

I'm no expert in the area of modes (in fact, I suspect someone will correct something I posted above).  But be aware, there is a TON of misinformation when it comes to modal teachings aimed at guitar players.  Most books will tell you that modal playing is a matter of the note you start and end on (Ionian = C D E F G A B C, Dorian = D E F G A B C D, Phrygian = E F G A B C D E, etc), but this is flat out WRONG.  What really matters is what chord you are playing a certain scale over.  That is what gives you the modal sound.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on March 25, 2005, 08:49:52 AM
Modes are merely an expression of scalar intervals. Ionian = Major, for instance. That's why mixolydian is 'basically' the major scale, with a slightly different interval. I remember my theory book having the modes written out on the inside cover (by me, I was in a Leonardo DV phase), and it was like:

Mode name: 1-1-1/2-1-1-1/2-1
Mode name: 1-1/2-1-1-1/2-1-1
etc

(and this is a little spotty, because I last took theory in college over ten years ago, heh...I can look up the true answer if you'd like with each mode and it's intervals, I still have my old theory book at home somewhere)

Right now I'm just using a mode of convinience, the B mixolydian over the E minor. It has all the notes of the E minor scale, played on a B tonal center. It's my 'stock' metal riffing material, the stuff I was using for my improv metal nights at an open mic club last summer. I'm pretty tired of it's restrictions, though. But I'm insane inside those scales, total fretboard mastery, so I tend to fall back on 'em for freedom of playing. Kinda ironic, limiting yet freedom as far as playing in any position within those limits.
Quote
I usually prefer single note melodies in my rhythms rather than strumming chords though.
I don't have any preference, I try not to, intentionally. I like all kinds of stuff, from palm-muted stuff, single and chords, to strummy acoustic stuff. I try to always keep it interesting, with walking bass lines, passing tones, little independant melodies, chord inversions, etc. That's really where I am right now, chops coming back and moving on to more advanced stuff and trying to get the theory down once again.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on March 25, 2005, 02:44:55 PM
Thanks for the explanations. Except...err...I still don't get it.

Could either of you two recommend a book on scales and modes? Preferably, one that assumes no prior knowledge or experience with music notation and theory. Something geared more towards guitars and fretboard patterns, and has lots of pretty little pictures.

Everything I've learned up to this point has been by ear or imitation (and by "imitation" I don't mean cover songs or whatnot. I just mean by learning patterns and techniques by listening to other guitarists). I think I've got a pretty good intuitive sense on what kinds of notes I should mashing together, but it's not uncommon for me to hit those "sour" notes when I'm trying to improvise. Sometimes those sour notes turn out to be not so bad at all, and simply take me into a new direction. Most of time though, they just fuck up a song. I'd like to get to the point where I know exactly what I'm doing. Where accidents (at least the bad kind) never happen.



Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on March 25, 2005, 03:40:56 PM
I'm working with this book (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0825821711/qid=1111785826/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/002-5409200-1240800?v=glance&s=books&n=507846) right now. It's a series and I'll probably check out the others, it's fairly well done. It has almost no prose in it, but a gajillion scales in tab. I also got a little gig bag book of chords which is nowhere near as extensive as I want, as I said, I'll probably get the guitar grimoire version. I like to work on scales and chord progressions concurrently, and build chords straight from scale tones, but at some point I need to work more on standard chording, too.

It's been a pain, since I'm really just getting back into theory, but it's fun when things fall back into place, and I'm glad I'm doing it, because it's a lot more satisfying knowing the individual notes in each chord, because then it's so much easier to build things up from there.

I can totally empathize with hitting sour notes during improv, it's to be expected from anyone but a true master. But that's why I'd been sticking to the safety net of my minor scales, which I can improv anywhere with almost zero sour notes. Like I said, it makes me feel like a newbler when I play anything else, heh. But there's a funny sense of dedication that brings out in me...because I can play a blistering full neck minor run and then struggle with some basic patterns or scales I'm not used to, makes me want to get as good at those as I am with the minor stuff. I'm intentionally revisiting a lot of problem areas from when I first learned to play, I skipped alot because it wasn't relevant to the music I was playing at the time, which let me get good a lot faster than if I had done things 'properly'.

And don't knock the ...For Dummies series, it's been damn good on just about any topic I can think of, guitar is no exception. I'm actually using it, as well. Mostly as a springboard, but also as a nice review of some basic techniques across a variety of styles. Your local library probably has it or can get it for you, the copy I am using is from work (the library).

Thinking about it...I think I can trace this whole renewed interest in major scales and whotnat to a single lick, I was listening to some minor blues and they kept using a cool major passing tone. Rather than just cop that one lick, I wanted to learn how to mix and match scales like that on my own, so I'm not so stratified. And of course, at speed in real-time, because I'm hell-bent on becoming an improv player (first time around the focus was on writing and structure).


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on March 25, 2005, 07:07:58 PM
Thanks. I've seen those Grimoire books around for years. They've always seemed a bit daunting to me, but maybe I should just dive in. After all, it's a better way to devote my time than with a lot of other things.


Slightly off topic:

You want to hear something sad? Jimi Hendrix only played for 11 years of his life.

What gives? I could devote all my time to music education for the rest of my life, and at the ripe age of 70, I'd probably say to myself: "You've gotten pretty good over the years, haven't you? But you know what? Compared to Jimi, you still suck!" Heh.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Miguel on March 25, 2005, 10:03:05 PM
Here's how I think of modes:

Modes are just ways of playing scales with different intervals inbetween certain notes.  You can memorize the patterns on a fret board then you can play any mode in any key, by selecting a different starting note.

If you write the notes of a scale, you can see the starting notes for each of the seven modes, in a particular key.  Let's do the Key of C:

C - Ionian
D - Dorian
E - Phyrgian
F - Lydian
G - Mixolydian
A - Aeolian
B - Locrian

All seven of these modes are based on the key of C, thus contain the same notes as the C scale.

If we use the example above (from Sky) of the E minor scale, we have the following:

E - Ionian
F# - Dorian
G - Phrygian
A - Lydian
B - Mixolydian
C# - Aeolian
D# - Locrian

Hence we can see that for the Mixolydian mode, we are actually playing notes from the E minor scale (as was pointed out by Sky above).  Since a lot of metal is based around the E power chord, you will see a lot of riffing around the minor modes, which are B Mixolydian and G Phrygian (the two most common).

The modes follow a set number of intervals from the root note of the key (or tonic note).  They all follow the same pattern:

Ionian - based on major scale
Dorian - based on major scale one whole step below tonic
Phrygian - based on major scale two whole tones below tonic (major third)
Lydian - based on major scale 5 half steps below tonic (major 4th)
Mixolydian - based on major scale a perfect 5th below tonic (6 semi tones)
Aeolian - based on major scale one whole step above tonic
Locrian - based on major scale one third above tonic

So if someone says "play an C Mixolydian scale", you count a perfect 5th below that note, which would be F (so this would be based on notes in the F major scale).  So a solo based on the C Mixolydian scale would be appropriate for certain songs in the K of F (provided the scale fit the intended mood of the piece).

We don't tend to think of modes since as guitarists we play chromatic instruments.  This means we can play every semi-tome (or half step) starting from the low E up to the high E two octaves up.  Older instruments, like dulcimers, were tuned to major scales, so you really had to think about modes when the key of the song was changed!


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on March 26, 2005, 02:19:25 AM
We don't tend to think of modes since as guitarists we play chromatic instruments.  This means we can play every semi-tome (or half step) starting from the low E up to the high E two octaves up.  Older instruments, like dulcimers, were tuned to major scales, so you really had to think about modes when the key of the song was changed!

Hmm...There's a recent thread goin' on at Harmony Central about this actually. I'm finding some of it interesting (even though I don't quite understand it all).

"Do you think modally or in terms of superimposing a scale?" (http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=ea91e39c0088c259adbca2498101c630&threadid=891092)

Quote
My teacher and I sort of have an ongoing debate about this. He'll say play a Ab melodic minor over a G altered dominant chord. I'll say 'oh you mean G super locrian.' He'll say fine you learn your 21 scales and I'll learn my 3. But in my case I know that the #5 of the super locrian scale will also be the #5 of the chord I'm playing it over, while he has to remember that the 5th of the Ab melodic minor is the #5 of of the chord. On the other hand there are situations where the scale you would superimpose doesn't have the chords root in it. Then there's no mode.

Some of the thread is too technical for me, but it seems like many guitarists think in terms of modes.


Also, this guy derailed a bit, but I thought he made a cool point:

Quote
Once you can feel the intervals in your fingers, you don't NEED to think - thinking melodically, diatonically, whatever, it all just gets in the way. Scales and modes are, to me, all about training your fingers. Arpeggios are extremely important because they train you to play certain intervals, and different modes incorporate all sorts of weird intervals in their arpeggios.

But the most important thing is: This is NOT NECESSARY (oh, playing chromatically through the entire range of the guitar in different positions can actually help - if you do this a lot when you're bored, you will become more intuitively connected with your instrument) [...] Eventually all that playing will make you fluent in music exactly the same as you probably/most likely/heck/definitely are with your spoken native language.

I guess it's much the same as how babies babble to learn different ways of shaping the mouth and tongue to form various syllables, and then they instinctively learn how to piece them together to create meaning, and eventually words (i guess this is partially why practicing riffs is another way to sound a lot better with a minimal amount of effort). The more I play nowadays, it seems, thinking along these lines, improvisation gets easier and easier, and the only thing holding me back from truly exploring what I feel musically is my own technical limitations - which can all be remedied simply by playing more. Improvisation can teach itself just as well as any method, at least in my humble and fairly uneducated opinion.

A book for a linguistics class I took [...] called The Language Instinct by Stephen Pinker [...] describes how people acquire language, in terms of what modern science percieves [...] It seems to me that the ability to play music in a way that is "natural" comes the same way the ability to speak a language comes ... although certainly without as much ease unless you either work very hard or begin at a younger age.

As obvious as it is, I've never given much thought on the similarities between spoken language and music. I mean, how much does one have to understand about their language in order to convey a powerful message?

Really, not much at all.

I think the examples are endless, so I'm not going to bother listing any here. I will say, however, that a George Carlin can stir up a crowd long before a William F. Buckley could even make an impression. Doesn't the same apply to music to an extent? Or any art for that matter?

Anyways, it's slightly off point and all that, but it's interesting to me. I'm still going to devote more time to learning more, but I think "reaching one's potential" with music is an entirely different thing.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on March 26, 2005, 10:16:28 PM
I mentioned Tom Verlaine earlier, so I thought I'd post this. Bootleg quality, but still...

His quirky singing style may not be for everyone, but IMO, this is some of the best guitar playing ever put to tape: Little Johnny Jewel (http://home.satx.rr.com/dasnake/music/Little_Johnny_Jewel.mp3) (27 MB)

The second solo, 7 and 1/2 minutes in, kicks my ass every time.

Kind of a shame what happened to punk after the 70's. It pretty much became synonymous with lack of skill on one's instrument, and vanity, when in the beginning it was just about putting the balls back into Rock.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Arnold on March 27, 2005, 04:17:05 PM
Thanks for the explanations. Except...err...I still don't get it.


Try this exercise I got from a Joe Satriani article and it should help you get it.  It will show you that a mode is a certain sound and not just a series of notes with a certain beginning or ending, as many other sources suggest.

Use your low E string as an open drone.  Strike it and then play the E Major scale (starting on on the 7th fret of the A string is probably the easiest position); that's your E Ionian.

Next, strike the drone again, and while it is ringing, play the D major scale over it.  This is D Dorian, and it has a b3 and b7 (compared to the E Ionian).

Then play the drone and a C Major over it.  This is C Phrygian.  The Phrygian mode has a b2, b3, b6 and b7.  Remember that E Ioninan is E F# G# A B C# D# E and C Major is C D E F G A B C, so if you flat the 2, 3, 6 and 7 in E Ionian, you get the C Major scale (this same idea applies to all the modes).

I'm not going to take you through all the modes, but you should get the idea and hear the sounds.  A good thing to help you is memorizing the circle of fifths.  If you know that the Lydian mode has 1 sharp (the 4th) and you are playing over E, you can just add 1 sharp to the "key signature", to go from E to B. 

E F# G# A B C# D#

to

B C# D# E F# G# A# B

The progression of sharps and flats is always the same in the circle of fifths.  So if flatting some notes leaves you with 2 sharps, you know the mode you end up with will be a D and it will have the notes D E F# G A B C# D, no matter what mode it is.  The circle of fifths makes it easy to do "musical arithmetic" by just adding sharps or flats to the key signature.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Arnold on March 27, 2005, 05:17:28 PM

So if someone says "play an C Mixolydian scale", you count a perfect 5th below that note, which would be F (so this would be based on notes in the F major scale).  So a solo based on the C Mixolydian scale would be appropriate for certain songs in the K of F (provided the scale fit the intended mood of the piece).

What's interesting is reading guitar boards and seeing all the different ways people use to think these things out and the little mental devices they use to make them work.

Since I come at it from the circle of fifths angle, when I think Mixolydian, I think "1 flat".  Since C major has no sharps or flats, adding one flat to it gives me the key signature of F Major.  If I was to play D Mixolydian, I'd add one flat (aka, subtract a sharp) and end up with 1 sharp in the "key signature", which means G Major.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Miguel on March 28, 2005, 01:58:09 PM
Quote
What's interesting is reading guitar boards and seeing all the different ways people use to think these things out and the little mental devices they use to make them work.

Yes, I find this interesting as well.

For me, it made more sense to think of modes as positional entities.  Like in thinking of how I changed frets within a scale in order to play a different mode.

If you look online, you'll find fret board charts for each mode (http://www.theguitarsuite.com/modepositions.html) that will show you the pattern that each mode follows.  So I know for example that if I want to play C Mixolydian scale, you just select the starting position and follow the pattern.  Also notice that the circle of fifths follows a sepcific pattern on a fretboard too!


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Arnold on March 29, 2005, 12:11:19 AM
Quote
What's interesting is reading guitar boards and seeing all the different ways people use to think these things out and the little mental devices they use to make them work.

Yes, I find this interesting as well.

For me, it made more sense to think of modes as positional entities.  Like in thinking of how I changed frets within a scale in order to play a different mode.

If you look online, you'll find fret board charts for each mode (http://www.theguitarsuite.com/modepositions.html) that will show you the pattern that each mode follows.  So I know for example that if I want to play C Mixolydian scale, you just select the starting position and follow the pattern.  Also notice that the circle of fifths follows a sepcific pattern on a fretboard too!

I try to stay away from fretboard patterns and think in terms of notes.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Miguel on March 29, 2005, 07:27:10 PM
If I put together some quick MP3 clips of the various modes played over a basic root chord (like an E power chord used in rock or metal), would anyone be interested in hearing them here on F13?


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on March 29, 2005, 07:56:23 PM
If I put together some quick MP3 clips of the various modes played over a basic root chord (like an E power chord used in rock or metal), would anyone be interested in hearing them here on F13?

Heh. You might want to pm one of the admins. I'm not sure if they even look at this thread.

Oh, and btw, if possible, can you give me a brief idea of what the guitarist is doing in that song I posted above (Little Johnny Jewel)? I'm just curious. He was originally a classically trained pianist, then moved to free jazz on saxophones. According to him, he didn't even care about guitars until he was older (he called them "twee" -- whatever that means) -- but I'll be damned if I could find a better guitar player that I could name as my personal favorite (he completely restored my faith in lead playing, at a time when I considered guitars to be a bit "twee" myself).


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on April 05, 2005, 02:14:23 PM
Miguel, we really should start posting some little snippets, that would be cool. For me personally, I'd like to record something polished for once, I usually just throw down some ideas for future exploration and never revisit them. I was listening through my clips a while back when I put in a new hd, sometimes the same idea will crop up several months later in some odd morphed form, I'm actually building a song out of three of those clips. My obstacle is that I grew up (literally, from age 14) as half of a songwriting duo. Get some ideas cooked up, throw it on tape, then bounce it off my singer and we work to arrange and fill out the ideas and put lyrics to it. It's crushing trying to do it alone, imo.

Wish I wasn't saving for a house, a new guitar and a Digi002 would go a long ways in helping me record more easily... :)

(downloading that song now)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Miguel on April 05, 2005, 05:49:01 PM
Quote
Miguel, we really should start posting some little snippets, that would be cool.

My PC has been apart for the past few weeks so I haven't had access to any of my recording gear.  I've been converting it with a new power supply, fans, vid card coolers, etc in order to silence it.  It was getting distracting trying to record songs in the same room as a PC that sounded like a 12 HP leafblower on gardening day.

My mic pre is on loan ATM, but if you all don't mind listening to direct recordings of guitar I should be able to throw a sample clip together by this weekend.  I'll host in on my own website and link it here.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on April 06, 2005, 01:22:47 PM
Wish I wasn't saving for a house, a new guitar and a Digi002 would go a long ways in helping me record more easily... :)

You might want to look into getting a ProTools MIX system. Hell of a lot better and slightly cheaper than Digi002's, M-Audio, and the like. The only reason they're cheap is that Digidesign moved on to HD for their Pro systems. But they'll still do everything an 002 can do (and more). You might even getting lucky and end up paying half than you would for something new.

On the subject of guitars, I ended up getting ordering one of these over the weekend:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/lonestar627/Misc/jazzmaster.jpg)

Really cheap too ($300). Mine's white. I was going to settle on a Am. Vintage reissue, but I found this used Made in Japan model (usually these still run $600 or so, but I don't think the dealer knew wtf he was doing). I ended saving about a grand. All I have to do now is upgrade the pups ($100 for a pair) and I'll be happy with it. Hopefully this will subside the G.A.S.

Did you find a method to Verlaine's madness btw? I read that he used the Bop Scale a lot (from his Sax experience), but I'm not sure to what extent and whatnot.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: HaemishM on April 07, 2005, 11:23:03 AM
If I put together some quick MP3 clips of the various modes played over a basic root chord (like an E power chord used in rock or metal), would anyone be interested in hearing them here on F13?

PM Shockeye and Schild. I have no problem with it, but Shockeye's the one who'd have to put them up.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: schild on April 07, 2005, 11:24:34 AM
No need to PM Me, I'm all good with it.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on April 08, 2005, 10:57:28 AM
Quote
Hell of a lot better and slightly cheaper than Digi002's, M-Audio, and the like.
But the control surfaces = $$$. The reason I'm thinking the 002 is the motorized control surface that is included. Otherwise, I'd just go with an m-box and do stereo recordings.

To the admins:
Quote
I'll host in on my own website and link it here.
Reading comprehension is HARD ;)

I wub u 2.
Quote
Did you find a method to Verlaine's madness btw?
That was a great piece, their live album is up on my fye wishlist now :) My ears are out of shape, I couldn't tell you what he was playing over the top. If he's anything like me, though, he's not sticking to any particular thing, but just using whatever occurs to him as he's jamming. I'd like to get to the point where I can play 100% by ear, it's insanely difficult for me for some reason, but I do practice just closing my eyes and humming melodies, then play them on guitar. Good for the ear and the technique (but I'm pretty crappy at it, heh).

Got out to the local Fender dealer (I've known the manager for years). The only maple neck strat they had was the 50th Ann. gold-tone model, with the U neck. I've always played C necks, so it was like playing a baseball bat. Felt odd. Then when I got home, I noticed I arch my hand a lot, and there is room for a U neck in there, so I'm thinking I might spend some more time playing that one next week when I go up there. Downside is the garbage truss rod system, it's like the vintage models, you have to take the neck off to adjust the truss, but he showed me a cool trick - put a capo at the base of the neck and leave the strings on. Still, a pita. A nice bonus - he said they could get in any Fenders I was interested in (slowly, a few at a time) so I could try them out, no obligations.

Gave me some crazy gore-tex strings, they are supposed to keep that 'new string' feel forever. They are super slick, nice in a way, but I actually prefer playing on dead strings, I think. I like the rough texture and extra grippiness for bending. Totally weird.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on April 08, 2005, 11:40:50 AM
That was a great piece, their live album is up on my fye wishlist now :)

My guess is you're talking about the Blow Up, which is where that version of Little Johnny Jewel is from.

Anyways, yeah, great album, but fair warning: He's struggles a lot with vocals live. LJJ is one of the exceptions, for some reason. They're all great songs though....But most of them make better sense after listening to Marquee Moon imho. Marquee Moon = Best dual guitar album ever  :-D

Also, I have every "unreleased" live performance if you're ever interested.

Quote
My ears are out of shape, I couldn't tell you what he was playing over the top. If he's anything like me, though, he's not sticking to any particular thing, but just using whatever occurs to him as he's jamming.

Yeah, I'm the same way. But like I said earlier, I tend to hit those sour notes often. Trying to educate myself lately though. I ordered that book you suggested as well.
 
Quote
Got out to the local Fender dealer (I've known the manager for years). The only maple neck strat they had was the 50th Ann. gold-tone model, with the U neck. I've always played C necks, so it was like playing a baseball bat. Felt odd. Then when I got home, I noticed I arch my hand a lot, and there is room for a U neck in there, so I'm thinking I might spend some more time playing that one next week when I go up there. Downside is the garbage truss rod system, it's like the vintage models, you have to take the neck off to adjust the truss, but he showed me a cool trick - put a capo at the base of the neck and leave the strings on. Still, a pita. A nice bonus - he said they could get in any Fenders I was interested in (slowly, a few at a time) so I could try them out, no obligations.

C Neck guy here too. The old 60's "chunky C" though....Which would be mean Vintage models or reissues. I don't like the truss rod adjustment on those either, but I figure it's a tradeoff. That Jazzmaster I just got is the same way as well.

As for the arch in your hand, have you ever tried V Necks? Sounds like that may work, without it being too big.

Quote
Gave me some crazy gore-tex strings, they are supposed to keep that 'new string' feel forever. They are super slick, nice in a way, but I actually prefer playing on dead strings, I think. I like the rough texture and extra grippiness for bending. Totally weird.

I strung up some Elixers on a couple guitars recently, which are similar. I'll keep 'em on the acoustic and the baritone (which needs as much brightness to it that it can get), but I already took them off the other electrics. Pure Nickel all the way. Only problem is that I have to order them all the time, as the stores around here never carry them.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on April 08, 2005, 02:17:09 PM
Quote
Marquee Moon = Best dual guitar album ever
You better smiley that shit! Priest, Allmans, Maiden, Mercyful Fate, Skynyrd, etc etc ad nauseum :)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on April 08, 2005, 02:51:32 PM
Quote
Marquee Moon = Best dual guitar album ever
You better smiley that shit! Priest, Allmans, Maiden, Mercyful Fate, Skynyrd, etc etc ad nauseum :)

Heh, the smiley was just another way of saying "imho".  :wink:

It's much different from what those other bands are doing though (by virtue of Verlaine...Lloyd is the more rock oriented guy), that it's probably not even wise for me to make a comparison. There's also a subtle difference in how the guitars accompany each other -- instead of dualing and trading off each other with leads, Lloyd and Verlaine dual and layer over each other more in the rhythms. Like violin players would, for example, and not like guitar duos (or trios etc.) usually do. Plus, they play mostly in clean settings, which sets it apart somewhat.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on April 08, 2005, 04:02:14 PM
Ok, then. I'll pull out the big gun (http://shop.fye.com/product.aspx?sku=60108226&loc=50244).

Best guitar album EVER. Period. You must own this. If you do not, you know what to do.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on April 08, 2005, 05:33:59 PM
Ok, then. I'll pull out the big gun (http://shop.fye.com/product.aspx?sku=60108226&loc=50244).

Best guitar album EVER. Period. You must own this. If you do not, you know what to do.

I don't have that one, but those three are some of my favorites. McLaughlin in particular. I'll take note.  :-)

As for Marquee Moon, it's not anywhere near that territory. The only one who plays like that is Lloyd, and his acrobatics are kept to a minimum (he does let loose on the Matthew Sweet albums though). It's not a virtuoso guitar album by any means. It's romantic through and through.

I always liked the ending of that movie Crossroads (not the Britney Spears version!), because it makes that distinction between the two types of musicians. I don't really think Ry Cooder could own Steve Vai like the movie portrays though. I think they're equal -- just completely different, and can't be measured against each other.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on April 11, 2005, 06:36:46 PM
Hell, I like Crossroads for a bevy of reasons, as a blues fan/musician. Robert Johnson is the father of modern rock music, imo, since everyone from Clapton to Pagey (hell, half the early Zep tunes were Johnson's) to the friggin' Blues Brothers movie (Sweet Home Chicago). Ry Cooder doing the music was just sweet, way underrated player. Having Vai during his (arguable) peak was great, too.

But it's even more personal for me now, because I feel it represents my own internal struggle of the classically trained shredder (such as my skills are now) against the feel player I'm growing into. I'd rather master a single bend than an arpeggio these days, and holding back the shred so it doesn't taint the music is damned hard (as in I can't seem to yet, heh).

Then again, I listen to a guy like Johnny Winter, who can shred tastefully through an entire SET, let alone a single solo. Put in some ear time with a couple of his live mid-70s albums, I love the guy. If I can't downplay my tendency to shred, I hope to channel it into this style. He uses a lot of lick-based stuff, too, which makes it easier and fun (less to remember :)).

And I do think Cooder could pwn Vai, because Vai lacks a certain soul (imo). That's what gives Cooder (who has great chops) the edge, Vai has great technique, and even great melodicity, but not very good feel. When I was a young woodchuck in shredding school, I always thought Jimmy Page was /sloppy/. Took me years before I came to appreciate the rough edges and despise overly clean studio work (which then led to many heated debates as I was in recording school at the height of ultra clean recordings...). Partly why I prefer live albums today.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Miguel on April 12, 2005, 01:44:33 PM
Some more details on modes and scales.

I discussed this topic (modes and scales, and how we decide which one to use in any given situation) with my bandmates and several interesting things came out.

First, a common practice for guitar players to learn modes is to memorize the fretboard patterns that are associated with each mode.  For example, check out this link:

Fret patterns for all seven modes (http://www.theguitarsuite.com/modepositions.html)

So if you know the root of the mode you wish to play (for example, C Dorian), then you align the root of the pattern with that root note (in this case, C), then you follow that pattern and out comes the scale!

The reason this method works well for guitar players is that it goes very well with matching a mode with any given key on the fly.  If I know I am playing a C7 chord, and I want to solo using a Mixolydian scale, then I know I want to play in the G Mixolydian mode.  I align the pattern to the root (in this case G), and away I go.

The problem with this method is that you need to learn at seven fretboard patterns!  And of course this does not even completely cover all the minor variations that one can play in a given situation.

However there's another way to think about it.  As I said before, all modes are based on major scales.  All scales are relatable by the circle of fifths, by adding sharps and flats to any major scale you can get to any mode.

Hence if you learn the pattern for the Ionian (or major) mode/scale, you automatically know the pattern to every mode possible!  All that is required is to know the major scale any given mode is based on, then you play that scale starting on a different note and you have the exact same modes as the patterns above dictate.  However in this case, I only need to memorize two patterns (one for starting on the low E string, and another for starting on the A string).  However these two patterns are based on the common Ionian scale (look at the first pattern on the link above to play the major scale).

Using this second method is much easier from a memorization point of view, however we now have to think about what major scale each mode in any given key is based on.  We can do this fairly easily by remembering how many steps in the major scale we need to move down from the root of the chord we are playing.

Let's set up a hypothetical situation where we want to solo over a plain E power chord.  Our song is in E minor, so we get the following notes for the scale (this is the E natural minor scale, which is a major scale with flat 3rd, 6th, and 7th notes):

E natural minor scale:

E - Root
D - Flatted seventh
C - Flatted sixth
B - Fifth
A - Forth
G - Minor Third
F# - Second
E - Root

We know for a fact that all of these notes are 'good' notes for soloing, which means we can solo using the E natural minor scale.

However there are seven modes which we could theoretically play over this chord and would 'work out' (in the sense that the notes may be legal, but the scale may not fit the intended mood of the piece).

E - Ionian
E - Dorian
E - Phrygian
E - Lydian
E - Mixolydian
E - Aeolian
E - Locrian

Some of these modes we can throw out right away.  Since our song is in E minor, we should stick to the 'minor' modes, and not play any of the 'major' modes (since that major third would be dissonent with the minor third the song is based on.  Also, the flatted seveth would not match!).  The major modes would also be too 'happy' to go along with a song in a minor key.

If you look at this link (http://www.mandolincafe.com/niles2.html), you'll see that we have four modes that are based on minor scale progressions:  Dorian, Phrygian, Locrian, and Aeolian.  So these we already know are going to be good choices for soloing in the key of E minor.

So based on the information above, I know I have four potential modes I can choose from, and I know that they have to be based on major scales.  I know the Ionian scale pattern by heart so I'm now ready to play my solo!  All I need to figure out now is what scale each mode is based on!

From my previous post, you'll see that the different modes can be related to major scale using the following pattern:

Ionian - based on major scale
Dorian - based on major scale one whole step below tonic
Phrygian - based on major scale two whole tones below tonic
Lydian - based on major scale 5 half steps below tonic
Mixolydian - based on major scale a perfect 5th above tonic
Aeolian - based on major scale one whole step above tonic
Locrian - based on major scale one third above tonic

If I super-impose these two patterns, here's what I get:

E natural minor scale:

E - Root - Ionian
D - Flatted seventh - Dorian
C - Flatted sixth - Phygian
B - Fifth - Lydian
A - Forth - Mixolydian
G - Minor Third - Aeolian
F# - Second - Locrian

So now I'm really close to the answer!  Let me throw away the 'major' modes, and I'm left with the following:

D - Flatted seventh - Dorian
C - Flatted sixth - Phygian
G - Minor Third - Aeolian
F# - Second - Locrian

So we have:

I want to solo in E Dorian, I play a D major scale starting on E.
I want to solo in E Phyrgian, I play a C major scale starting on E.
I want to solo in E Aeolian, I play a G major scale starting on E.
I want to solo in E Locrian, I play a F# (or Gb) major scale starting on E.

I now have the all the scales I need in order to solo in this key.

I am going to do my backing tracks and make some MP3 clips of all these scales in the comnig week and post in this thread so you can hear what I am talking about.

Stay tuned!


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Arnold on April 12, 2005, 06:55:49 PM
The note you start on doesn't matter; that's just a bit of misinformation that has creeped into guitar lore.  Just play the right major scale and you will be playing the right mode.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on April 12, 2005, 07:00:05 PM
Screw patterns.  Just learn your scales and learn how they are constructed.  Patterns are a major roadblock that guitar players use as a crutch.

Did you guys teach yourselves? God, I've tried off and on since the time I started strumming, and just can't get a grasp on it. Patterns (and a good ear) are so much easier, and it's never been a roadblock for me.

I wouldn't mind learning more, but would I be better off getting an instructor?

Edit:

Also, would you guys indulge me a little and talk about gear and songwriting (as opposed to shredding) every once in a while?  I feel so left out with all this talk about scales and modes.   :-P


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on April 13, 2005, 09:00:46 AM
Don't feel too bad. I don't have that level of theory any more. It was a nice refresher for me, too. As I've said, I'm much more of a feel player now. An instructor is always a good idea, no matter your level of playing. Randy Rhoades took classes in every city he played, iirc. I've been keeping my ear to the ground to find a decent instructor here that's not a long drive, but I mostly just self-teach. I had theory in high school and college, but that was 15 years ago and I had set the guitar down for 10 of those years.

But I can't say much about gear, because I'm not a gear guy. When I was at the Fender shop the other day my buddy was laughing at me, he's way into gear (well, he does work at the fender shop!). For me, it's all about playing and making whatever you play through sound good, because when I was learning, all we had were crap amps. So I had to make those amps sound better, and that's where technique comes in (to a certain extent, some amps just sound bad).
Quote
The note you start on doesn't matter; that's just a bit of misinformation that has creeped into guitar lore. 
Right. That's why I can so easily play a B Mixolydian because it's the E minor scale started on a B. There are several ways to approach modes, as evidenced by this thread, heh. None are "wrong". Besides, all this talk of everything being based on major scale is funny to me, because I'm terrrible at playing major scale leads :) That's why my personal way of looking at modes is simply intervals. Because that's what modes are to me, an expression of intervals across an octave.

I like to focus on intervals partly because that's how I was taught in school. We'd be given a key signature and told to transcribe music by ear, and intervallic listening is essential. We spent a lot of time on training the ear to hear different intervals, and even with as much as I've forgotten and/or atrophied over the years, it's still the core of my playing. Whenever I'm successful playing what I hear in my head, it's because I'm almost 'transcribing' it, and intervals are how I transcribe (or used to, heh). I guess learning all the scales would be a huge boon, but I'm not all that disciplined these days :) So I learn little sections off intervals and then transpose it around the neck, after a while I have a decent mental map for that "sound", like a spanish sound, f'rinstance. I don't worry about the scales so much as playing the right intervals to make the "sound" or "flavor". Hard to explain, I guess.

Songwriting...that makes me cry. Miss my old songwriting partner, but I have been penning a few more tunes lately. Started one last night called Backstabbin' Blues, going to use it to write a more elaborate fingerpicking song than I've done in a while, I think. Songwriting is tough as hell, or easy as pie. My band's best songs were alternately written in the time it takes to play it, or broken down and restructured over the course of months to make an epic. Sometimes we'd have a concept we'd write to, sometimes we'd have a riff we'd have to make a concept for. Sometimes I'd be futzing with effects and stumble across something, because I always tried to write parts that fit effects when I was in futzing mode.

Hell, let's talk about pentatonics, I play them too much anyway! :) That's what has actually spurred my reinterest in learning some scales, the multitude of variations on the pentatonic scales I play leave holes when I try to do more styles of blues, and I used to suck at 7th chords. It's funny because they are so easy...and I remember them by an interval, actually (by remembering to play one interval down from the higher octave root, one or two steps depending on chord quality)! :)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Samprimary on April 13, 2005, 09:27:32 AM
I always liked the ending of that movie Crossroads (not the Britney Spears version!), because it makes that distinction between the two types of musicians. I don't really think Ry Cooder could own Steve Vai like the movie portrays though. I think they're equal -- just completely different, and can't be measured against each other.

Vai played everything, except for the slide parts, which Ry did.

Vai actually wrote and performed Eugene's Trick Bag in that movie, then he was pretending to be unable to play his own piece, so he's actually defeating himself.

Most people don't know about Vai's love of classical guitar, or his ability to do it so ridiculously well, as he had been practicing it since his time at the Berklee College Of Music in Boston.

/edit

http://epicrecords.com/g3/quicktime/

Vai on a tripleneck.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on April 13, 2005, 09:47:24 AM
Vai played everything, except for the slide parts, which Ry did.

Vai actually wrote and performed Eugene's Trick Bag in that movie

Actually, it came on yesterday, and I started suspecting that very thing.

He really should play a Tele more (or something besides an Ibanez). I'd probably buy one of his albums if he did.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Samprimary on April 13, 2005, 02:02:54 PM
Actually, it came on yesterday, and I started suspecting that very thing.

He really should play a Tele more (or something besides an Ibanez). I'd probably buy one of his albums if he did.

Oh yeah .. Vai took on Satriani's use of Ibanez. Hmm.

I love Vai, I really do. Great guy, family man, absolute master of what he does, etc. But I understand what is said when his music does not have 'feel'. I don't feel any aesthetic behind most of his pieces, but understand when listening to them that they are being constructed in a way that makes them amazing on a technical level. Problem is, I don't really like the way most of his music sounds, because he so rarely creates .. yeah, a .. I dunno, feel.

But he does have the technical amazingosity, which is why I love his live performances, and have the G3 DVD. His music, to me, is entertaining to watch. In fact, I was live at that concert in the clip I posted, just to watch that kind of stuff.

Occasionally, he manages to emulate the feel that his sensei Satriani has (Always With Me, A Train Of Angels, etc), and makes songs like Juice, which have wider appeal.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on April 14, 2005, 02:17:32 PM
Quote
Most people don't know about Vai's love of classical guitar, or his ability to do it so ridiculously well, as he had been practicing it since his time at the Berklee College Of Music in Boston.
Don't forget his early gig as a transcriber for Frank Zappa. That's great ear and theory practice alone.

I'm not a fan of Vai, though I do hold him in great respect. To me, Vai is the guitar Yanni/Tesh.

In guitar news, I'm going to be getting an acoustic, I've decided. Relatively cheap, don't want to spend more than $500, if anyone has recommendations (or cautions/warnings). I like/enjoy using two words/concepts like this! :) Sorry.

I also grabbed a few books for some inspiration since I've done so much electric lead playing lately. I listen to a lot of old blues masters, but I've put in more time than usual with Robert Johnson the past couple weeks and I'm itching to work on my acoustic fingerstyle, which I used to be pretty good at (albeit classical style, not blues). Hoping to also locate my grandfather's banjo and apply some things to that, too.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on April 14, 2005, 02:28:54 PM
In guitar news, I'm going to be getting an acoustic, I've decided. Relatively cheap, don't want to spend more than $500, if anyone has recommendations (or cautions/warnings). I like/enjoy using two words/concepts like this! :) Sorry.

I'll keep my recommendations to Fenders:

Standard Tele or Strat. Mex made has become a good value in the past few years methinks. Even better, find a used 50's/60's reissue model (the MIM ones) -- fucking great guitars, and just as good as Am. Standards, but with vintage hardware (new, around $500-600...used, $300-$400 range). The 60's neck is sweetness.

EDIT: At least get that guy to order one so you can play it for yourself. Then decide.

If you don't happen to like those, the Jimmy Vaughn is a great value (similar to the 60's model, but with a modern radius and Tex-Mex pickups. He was even nice enough to put the "Jimmy Vaughn" signature at the back of the headstock, instead of the front).

The Deluxe Players Strat is in the same price range, and has some cool features as well. 12" radius, ala Gibson/SRV, Noiseless pickups, 7 way switching

If those don't entice you (I highly recommend that 60's reissue...I can't express that enough), I'm looking to sell a 2002 Gibson SG Special for $450 (paid around $700). No case, barely a scratch, and the only mods are (better) Schaller tuners.

I'll post pics soon...


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on April 14, 2005, 02:39:14 PM
Just watched the G3 stuff linked.

Vai. Meh. Could barely sit through the entire thing. I would sum it up as simply showing off without much thought toward making good music. This guy needs to learn songwriting and structure from more than a technical perspective. Good chops delivered in a boring and bland fashion.

Satriani. I put it there with Vai's piece, but with a band. He fit the music better and made a song out of it, but it wasn't a very good song, not memorable in the least. Good chops delivered in an unflattering medium.

Malmsteen. I'd never thought I'd say Malmsteen is the strongest songwriter of the bunch. It helps he's playing one of my favorite tunes (of his). But note how he integrates his shredding with the band, strong melodic lines and structure. Good chops delivered in a kick ass format with a shredding band. Everyone has huge chops and is using them to play to the song and unify the melodic movements. Song has hooks without rock cliche.

To sum up, I need to go get me some old Rising Force stuff. Hell, I was trying to remember how to play Black Star a while back...Yngwie is the man, he just don't like donuts (no-prize to whoever gets the reference!!).
Quote
I'll keep my recommendations to Fenders:
Acoustics, man, acoustics! :) Martin, Rodriguez, etc. Not sure whether to go steel strings for blues/rock or gut strings for flamenco/classical...seperate pickups, I'm thinking, though, rather than acoustic/electric combo.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on April 14, 2005, 02:49:40 PM
Those "3" could have benefited from a "fourth" imo. Like I mentioned before, I'm not a big fan of the shredder type of guitarists, but Eric Johnson kind of stands out to me. He's also one of the only ones that uses better (vintage) gear....Another plus for him in my book. If he happens to not play "soulful" all the time, his guitar will make up for some of it at least.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on April 14, 2005, 07:03:44 PM
Oops, didn't realize that you only wanted recommendations on "Acoustics"....At least that's what it sounds like on a second reading (?). Sorry for my rant on the Electrics.

Anyways, I've always been happy with Takamine. Then again, what do I know? I've never had anything but sub-$500 acoustics.

I know that Martin offers some guitars in the sub $500 range now (USA made too). I've only messed with some of those in store, but they sound and look great. If I wasn't already happy with my own acoustic, I'd probably get one.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on April 15, 2005, 12:58:03 PM
I'll just post pics of the Gibson anyways, just in case you're interested. My camera is broken, so I had to take pics with DV. I'll find something else later if you want.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/lonestar627/Guitars/sgsc_wc.gif)
Gibson's pic

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/lonestar627/Guitars/sg_body.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/lonestar627/Guitars/sg_inlays.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/lonestar627/Guitars/sg_headstock.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/lonestar627/Guitars/sg_serial.jpg)

The only difference between mine and the one at the top is that I have better tuners and moon inlays.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/lonestar627/Guitars/sg_scratch.jpg)
Couple scratches too.

EDIT: Actually, $450 is probably a little too much. $400 (that's with shipping price) sounds better.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on April 15, 2005, 02:06:25 PM
Nice SG, those inlays are a nice touch. Wish I were in the market for an electric! Got the $500 in my pocket right now, goign to hit up the local El Cheapo shops and see if I can find something with decent sound and construction (the acoustic I referred to), I'm going to attempt to ignore branding and whatnot.

Nice way to slip in a pic of that Jag, heh. And the Apple/Jesus Hawk board, heh. My favorite board back in the day was a funky Christian Hosoi design (shark or mako or something). I did tigerstriped grip tape over the top of it, bought it in Long Beach, CA in summer '86, iirc. I'm so not a skater anymore, heh. Fall and bust my ass kind of skater, maybe.

Good luck on that SG, though, damned fine guitar! I'd be embarassed to post my guitar, but I just might for fun and grins (it's pretty bad, heh).



Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on April 15, 2005, 02:36:43 PM
Nice SG, those inlays are a nice touch. Wish I were in the market for an electric! Got the $500 in my pocket right now, goign to hit up the local El Cheapo shops and see if I can find something with decent sound and construction (the acoustic I referred to), I'm going to attempt to ignore branding and whatnot.

Good luck then  :-)

Quote
My favorite board back in the day was a funky Christian Hosoi design (shark or mako or something). I did tigerstriped grip tape over the top of it, bought it in Long Beach, CA in summer '86, iirc.

Sweet. I know exactly what you're talking about. My brother always skated those.

edit:
Quote
I'm so not a skater anymore, heh. Fall and bust my ass kind of skater, maybe.

That Hawk board you see is the last I've stepped on...So far. Chipped my 4 front teeth skating that thing, and had to get a bridge. Don't feel bad -- I'd give anything if I had simply "busted my ass". That was more of a "Face" --- Meet your new friend "Concrete" ordeal.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on April 16, 2005, 01:43:47 PM
Well, that was pretty easy! Hit up the local shop (they have a great tech there) and played through their acoustic guitars. They had a decent selection of acoustics (yay school music programs), played some Deans, Yamahas, Alvarez, and Washburns (and a few El Cheapos I've never heard of). Since I tend to downplay my guitar experience, he started me on starter guitars, which was cool to get a feel from the bottom up.

As soon as I'd played through a few starters, I had a much better feel for what I was looking for, indeed, the neck I was liking the most was the cheap Alvarez. But I didn't like the electronics, nor the finish and inlays. He said, oh, here's the higher quality version, and I swear it had a little halo when he brought it down (could have been beer+sunlight). Had everything the cheaper model didn't, decent electronics, all natural finish with maple side/back, and just an inlay at the 12th fret. Alvarez AJ60-SC. The maple back is perfectly matched with a nice knurl on each side, a beautiful piece of wood.

Sound is nice and bright with good low-end punch. Loud. The electronics are good, some tone control beyond the 3 band eq and two gain stages. Running through the electric rig, it's serviceable with only a little mud at the very bottom and twang up higher. And the action is so nice, besides bending I forget I'm on the acoustic. Bending whole steps is a grade-A bitch, but that's the nature of the beast with acoustics, in my experience.

Paid $500 on the nose for the guitar + case + tax (which is nearing 10% in New York, yay).
(http://www.alvarezgtr.com/heartprodmedia/artistsprodmed/aj60sc.jpg)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on April 16, 2005, 01:52:23 PM
Oh, yeah. I was checking prices on a few things, and noticed this mandolin (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=guitar/search/detail/base_pid/519193/) was going for $40! Sure, it's cheap....but $40! Less than a damned console game. Think I'll grab one for the hell of it.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on April 16, 2005, 01:55:29 PM
Nice choice! Is that as big as it looks? Kind of looks like a Gibson Jumbo shape, except with a cutaway.

Btw, have you ever tried Silk and Steel strings? They give a quicker feel, like electrics or classical nylon, in my experience. Good for bending too.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: schild on April 17, 2005, 06:41:30 PM
I like men, i'm also a little girl.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on April 18, 2005, 12:56:06 PM
It's pretty huge. Kinda feels like playing a Gretsch with a thicker body.

Downside is I now have to buy another guitar, because I wanted to take this one hiking/camping with me, and it's too nice ;)

Schild: yeah, it's no secret.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on April 18, 2005, 01:04:55 PM
It's pretty huge. Kinda feels like playing a Gretsch with a thicker body.

Downside is I now have to buy another guitar, because I wanted to take this one hiking/camping with me, and it's too nice ;)

Live on the edge, man!

Seriously, it's meant for playing. Play it. Heh. Just don't let it fall of a cliff or something.

I like men, i'm also a little girl.

Well, don't feel left out. Little girls (http://www.daisyrock.com/) can play the guitar too.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on April 18, 2005, 04:59:26 PM
Nah, they didn't have a hardshell case, I'm not going hiking with a huge fragile instrument in a gig bag. Maybe you have to know me in person...it's just not a good idea, I'm way too impulsive and hyperactive. I know in no uncertain terms I'd break it within an hour if I were out in the wilderness with it.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Arnold on April 18, 2005, 05:09:27 PM
I don't worry about the scales so much as playing the right intervals to make the "sound" or "flavor". Hard to explain, I guess.

Now that's the essence of modal playing, IMO.  The Phrygian mode isn't a scale to me, it's a sound.  I love it, so I throw the flat 2 into my playing a lot, just for that sound.

You obviously understand modes, but what I was trying to say is the way most method books teach students about modes is wrong.  If you play the C major scale, starting on F, over a C chord, you aren't playing in the Lydian mode; you are playing the C Major scale.  If, however, you played the C Major scale over an F chord, you would be playing in C Lydian.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Arnold on April 18, 2005, 05:16:32 PM
Those "3" could have benefited from a "fourth" imo. Like I mentioned before, I'm not a big fan of the shredder type of guitarists, but Eric Johnson kind of stands out to me. He's also one of the only ones that uses better (vintage) gear....Another plus for him in my book. If he happens to not play "soulful" all the time, his guitar will make up for some of it at least.

I saw the first G3.  Johnson followed Vai and got booed by the crowd, but he had a really hard act to follow.  Vai put on an amazing set with great showmanship.  Johnson had major problems from his vintage equipment and because so, wasn't that good.

Vai was my favorite of the night (missed the KWS set).


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Arnold on April 18, 2005, 05:24:20 PM
It's pretty huge. Kinda feels like playing a Gretsch with a thicker body.

Downside is I now have to buy another guitar, because I wanted to take this one hiking/camping with me, and it's too nice ;)

Schild: yeah, it's no secret.

Get a Baby Taylor.  I got one for when I was travelling for work and it kicks ass.  When you get your hands on one, it looks very cheap and delicate, but it can take a beating.  And they sound HUGE for their size.  I've played with people who had cheap, full sized acoutstics and the Baby kept up, and in some cqases, sounded bigger.  Oh, and because of the short scale, they almost play like an electric.

The only downside is that because of the short scale, the intonation isn't the best.  You have to tune the B string a bit flat to get all your basic, open chords to sound in tune.  Playing chords up higher on the neck is annoying too, because they sound out of tune.  I need new strings for my regular Taylor, so I'm using my Baby and it annoys the hell out of me when I sing "No Excuses".  Luckily, I'm just singin' for myself :P


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Samprimary on April 21, 2005, 09:51:09 PM
I saw Vai on Tuesday at the Fox in Boulder.

Y'know, I wasn't expecting much. His music is not stuff I consider to be interesting, and I hadn't enjoyed his performance at the Fillmore at G3 in Denver (The performance in that video I posted was taped there and then)

Buuuut this performance was dynomite. Absolutely wonderful, including a wonderful opening show by Eric Sardinas. It was incredibly cool, and far more than I would have expected given the fact that Steve and co. had picked up a bug and were performing sick.

Even though I have no particular interest in his CD's still .. I now thoroughly reccomend seeing his performances.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on April 21, 2005, 10:11:19 PM
Those "3" could have benefited from a "fourth" imo. Like I mentioned before, I'm not a big fan of the shredder type of guitarists, but Eric Johnson kind of stands out to me. He's also one of the only ones that uses better (vintage) gear....Another plus for him in my book. If he happens to not play "soulful" all the time, his guitar will make up for some of it at least.

I saw the first G3.  Johnson followed Vai and got booed by the crowd, but he had a really hard act to follow.  Vai put on an amazing set with great showmanship.  Johnson had major problems from his vintage equipment and because so, wasn't that good.

Vai was my favorite of the night (missed the KWS set).

Hmm, well that's a shame. It's not like I'm a big fan of his either, but I think I think he just stepped up a notch in my book. Anyone who gets booed by the Vai/Satriani crowd that easily is OK with me.  :wink:


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on April 22, 2005, 09:46:43 AM
I've only seen Vai once, with David Lee Roth on the Eat 'Em And Smile tour (Tesla opening behind their debut album, they kicked all kinds of ass, too), with Sheehan and Bissonette. Great show.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Arnold on April 25, 2005, 06:55:46 PM
I've only seen Vai once, with David Lee Roth on the Eat 'Em And Smile tour (Tesla opening behind their debut album, they kicked all kinds of ass, too), with Sheehan and Bissonette. Great show.

I saw Tesla a couple years ago, in Sacramento (their home town), right after they reformed.  They kicked major ass.  I forgot how many good songs they had; almost every one they played was a sing-along.  Plus, they had a beer cooler on stage.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on May 18, 2005, 03:15:07 PM
Since Stray whined about me ignoring this thread :)

I found this clip (http://home.twcny.rr.com/iamthey/bwlg.mp3) among a bunch of guitar riff clips when I was cleaning out my data drive. I like to "jot" down ideas and back them up to cd every now and again, so I don't lose them. It was the only bass riff among hundreds of guitar riffs, according to the file metadata I recorded it last october.

I remember doing it, it is the germ of a song idea I have on guitar that I was trying to flesh out with a bass line and come up with some bass hooks. This is just me trying to jam out a few ideas, so it's pretty rough both in content and timing, lots of pauses and crap. But as I don't play bass any more, and only recently started playing guitar again, I thought it was pretty decent, the latter half is closer to the style I played professionally, I was pretty classical-heavy (hey, that was the era for it!).

Not much, but it's something to keep the thread alive :) Some day I'll actually record something worth listening to, I'm not much for polished recordings, heh.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on May 18, 2005, 03:32:53 PM
You sound like a Geezer.  :wink:

Pretty cool. I've got stuff laying around here that I should go through....I "notebook" just about everything, but haven't put together something substantial in a while. It's hard to get a good rockin' song going without some friends around (for me at least).

Also been buying a lot of "guitar" albums lately. Getting CD versions of some old albums (Band of Gypsies and Jeff Beck for the win). Also been getting a lot of this guy (http://www.nelscline.com/). Nels Cline. He's the bees knees, I tell you. If Di Meola was in Sonic Youth, it'd sound like him. Some MP3 samples here (http://www.nelscline.com/mp3.html). I recommend getting the "Instrumentals" album.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on May 18, 2005, 04:00:38 PM
Geezer 'taught' me how to play bass. I worship at the altar of Geezer. I love Cliff, but to me Geezer is what a bass player should be. Heck, lots of my blues guitar riffs are Geezer riffs, too :) So...thanks!

I hear you on trying to write without a band, it's tough. I always had a songwriting partner in my singer, but it's been over a decade since I've seen him.

Speaking of guitar albums, which I'm always buying, finally got the cd version of Ozzy's Tribute to Randy. Goddamned I love Randy. He's so aggro when he plays, listening to his Iron Man or Paranoid is refreshing. Also got Clapton's From Cradle to Grave disc, some great blues soloing on there.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on May 18, 2005, 04:31:22 PM
I've wondered what would have happened to EVH's rep if Randy hadn't died. Rhoads was just as good (well, maybe that's arguable), but much different as well. Would Eddie still have been the most influential 80's rock guitarist? Would there have been as many imitators?


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on May 19, 2005, 01:24:09 PM
I'll just post some Cline clips directly. Most of this is his Jazzy stuff, not the noise rock-ish stuff.

Beer Bottle Collection (http://www.nelscline.com/sounds/Ground/beer_bottle_collection.mp3)

Square King (http://www.nelscline.com/sounds/Pin/squareking_edit.mp3)

Bath (http://www.nelscline.com/sounds/Chest/bath.mp3)

Cause for Concern (http://www.nelscline.com/sounds/Instrumentals/cause_for_concern.mp3)

Ghost of the Pinata (http://www.nelscline.com/sounds/Instrumentals/ghost_of_the_pinata.mp3)

Anyways, I'm always happy when I stumble upon an indie/punk musician who's really skilled on his/her instrument. It's like the best of both worlds to me. Too bad that there's very few of them.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on May 19, 2005, 02:31:57 PM
That's good stuff. I think if I were playing with a band currently, I'd be a lot looser like that, as I enjoy just jamming along. But playing alone, I focus a lot more on not only technique, but note selection and a hundred other critical things (critical in that I self-criticize a lot while playing alone, whereas I'm more likely to forget minor flubs in favor of the overall groove when playing with others).

Bath was very nice, but they all rocked. Cause for Concern reminds me of my scale jams. When I get tired of running scales, I start to make little melodies that still traverse back and forth, up and down. I like the syncopation in the last clip. I saw the Holmes Brothers sunday (completely incredible, from soul to blues to gospel, and awesome guitar work) and I noticed I tend to watch the drummer more than anyone else, part of why I can always lock into that groove, and why 'stock' drummers bore me. I like them to constantly change up the rhythym...to give me ideas!

Really bums me out that cat from Syracuse lives so far away and has a band (with his brother, so a solid band connection). The freeform classical/metal stuff we were doing on open mic nights was completely fucking amazing, wish I had recorded it. It was a constant jam, him throwing out new rhythyms and me weaving them together, him feeding off what I played and viceversa, just a great experience, and pretty much what I'm looking for in a band. Start with a drummer like that and then try to find other musicians who can keep up.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Arnold on May 24, 2005, 04:53:08 PM
Geezer 'taught' me how to play bass. I worship at the altar of Geezer. I love Cliff, but to me Geezer is what a bass player should be. Heck, lots of my blues guitar riffs are Geezer riffs, too :) So...thanks!

Geezer kicks ass!  I love how he's so tight when it's time for the monolithic riffs, be he gets loose and groovy when one of those isn't happening.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on June 29, 2005, 03:30:24 AM
I made out like a bandit recently....Picked up a Vibro-King (i.e. the Holy Fucking Grail of Tone) off eBay for cheap.

A $2100 hand wired, Fender Custom Shop amp for $900. Kind of different from other Fenders, in that it doesn't just produce a Blackface or Tweed type sound. It'll do the Stevie Ray or Dick Dale thing, but it'll go into MC5-ish territory too (Townsend and Chris Isaak both use them these days, if that gives you any indication of it's versatility and how good it sounds). It's a 3x10, which makes it a little different from other Fenders as well.

It has a built in Fender Reverb Unit (not the standard kind, but the old school stand alone 3 knobbed one, like this (http://www.pedaldoctor.com/images/IMG_0586.JPG)), and I can get a perfect Surf sound out of it. Especially with the Jazzmaster. Only downside is that it's a single channel 60 watter...Which means, if I want overdrive, it has to be CRANKED......But when it is, it's one of the best.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/lonestar627/Guitars/vibro-king-ebay.jpg)

I'll take a snapshot of my guitar with it soon.

I'm downsizing on just about everything I own now. Besides the occasional stompbox, I don't need anything else.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on July 11, 2005, 05:00:13 AM
So anyways, here's my new rig...I got rid of all of my electrics except for a Tele and Jazzmaster (including the baritone that sparked this thread). No more amps except this bad boy:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/lonestar627/Guitars/VK_and_Jazzmaster.jpg).


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on July 11, 2005, 03:08:31 PM
That's a sweet combo! The 3x10 is interesting, I was playing through my 7x10 (an 8x10 with a bad speaker ;)) and it is real nice and punchy, but now I'm playing through my 1x15 (dean markley cab with an ev 400W full range 15" in it).

I really need to forget the mortgage for a couple months and buy a decent guitar. I've been playing a lot more lately, trying to master the happier styles, less doom and sludge playing. Recently I've been studying the Allmans and Betts, much to the delight of my girl. Just got the 2-disc Setzer Orchestra live set, it smokes. Also got in a Rev. Horton Heat compilation, really been stretching out and it feels great.

And my electric strat knockoff is dying in a big way, the electronics are shot, and it's not worth fixing. I've had a big eye for a couple Epiphones, the Epi les paul custom and the Epi les paul baritone, or perhaps a real strat. I'm pretty excited about it, hopefully I'll have some pics to share soon!


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on July 11, 2005, 03:34:49 PM
Those Epi's are great guitars for the money....There's just too damn heavy for me personally. Les Pauls in general, I mean. I've gotten wimpy over the years or something.

I've been eyeing a Gretsch Duo Jet lately, but it's the same deal. Heavy as shit, but man, they sound great. They look sweet too:

(http://www.gretschguitars.com/repository/gretsch/images/G6128T-1962_xl.jpg)

Anyways, go for it....Just get it out of the way :) Good luck on whatever you get.



Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on July 11, 2005, 04:57:36 PM
That Gretsch is teh sexay!


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on July 12, 2005, 10:48:46 AM
Listening to all this Setzer and Horton really, really makes that Gretsch look teh sexay! If only for that nice tremolo system, I don't use a tremolo bar (I'm a bender with crazy vibrato), but for the psychobilly, it's essential.

Also, I was at the shop my buddy works at and one of the teachers there thought I sounded very rockabilly, he thought that was my 'specialty' from the jam I was playing. At the time I found it odd, but I can hear it in my chording and phrasing now that I'm listening to more of it.

I'm not sure what the heck I'm good at any more, classical, metal, blues, rockabilly, rock, southern rock...I don't care so long as it sounds good! It's interesting having my girl listen to me play (she loves the guitar, luckily), she picks out so many more mishmashed influences and trends in my playing, it's been a great analytical tool.

Edit: Holy crap, it's not cheap, though! $2700 for the bigsby model @ musician's friend!! Yowzers, but it IS nice...


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on July 12, 2005, 11:41:53 AM
Listening to all this Setzer and Horton really, really makes that Gretsch look teh sexay! If only for that tremolo system, I don't use a tremolo bar (I'm a bender with crazy vibrato), but for the psychobilly, it's essential.

Also, I was at the shop my buddy works at and one of the teachers there thought I sounded very rockabilly, he thought that was my 'specialty' from the jam I was playing. At the time I found it odd, but I can hear it in my chording and phrasing now that I'm listening to more of it.

I'm not sure what the heck I'm good at any more, classical, metal, blues, rockabilly, rock, southern rock...I don't care so long as it sounds good! It's interesting having my girl listen to me play (she loves the guitar, luckily), she picks out so many more mishmashed influences and trends in my playing, it's been a great analytical tool.

The guy who taught me how to play was into all of this 60's instrumental type stuff (like surf), so I think it's always resonated with me the most. Not just surf necessarily, but the general approach. Spacious reverb, echos, not really blues based. That could be anything from Television, Sonic Youth, My Bloody Valentine, Surf, or Spaghetti Western music. Then again, I'm just as enamored with Link Wray...Who was more in-your-face and rockin'. I've also been...for all intents and purposes....into "punk" (then again, that word means little these days).

I guess you could say that I play slow surf (i.e. Spaghetti).....Just with more "noise". I like single note type riffs drowned in reverb, but when I play chords, I like them to be hard and ring out. And sometimes, I just play "noise". *shrug*  :wink: I need to upload some clips.

Not that I don't like anything else, but playing-wise, I'm just comfortable along those lines. I can do a little "Angus", or "Jimi", or "Kerry King"....But to be honest, it isn't really happening. That much I know.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on July 12, 2005, 03:55:00 PM
To me, punk is old  CoC (though the newer stuff is cool, too, Pepper Keenan rocks), Accused, Black Flag, the traditionals like the Pistols/Ramones/Clash/Kennedies, Butthole Surfers, Fear, stuff that was raw and uncommercial. Not so much the Good Charlotte or Green Day, though those are decent punky pop bands imo. I listened to a lot of that stuff, still have some LPs around I think, because I was in the skate scene when I was a kid, back when Tony Hawk was making videos in his backyard. I recently dug up my Fear tape because they butchered "Let's Have a War" from The Record on that eMotive APC disc, which I thought sucked (a first for MJ Keenan imo). "I Love Living in the City" is a classic. The Surfer's "Lady Sniff" was one of my favorites for rawness, with their entire "Rembrandt Pussyhorse" album being one of my favorites of all time, stuff like "Waiting for Jimmy to Kick", "Whirling Hall of Blades", and the hauntingly cool "Creep in the Cellar".

I should upload some clips, too. I moved the room around and everything is unplugged. When I first started playing again a couple years ago, I recorded everything, because I have CRS (can't remember shit). Now that I'm getting a little better and actually trying to write stuff I could use the focus of the recording. I'm just way too jammy, my girl cracks up because I have exercises designed to play boring rythyms without going off: throwing in fills, trying for alternate fingerings, etc. I don't think it's possible :P I think my best is two repetitions of a 12 bar blues/rockabilly riff before I start noodling about.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Llava on July 13, 2005, 01:06:01 AM
I know nothing about any of this.

But my cousin and brother are both very big into music.

Here are a couple songs my cousin digitally recorded.  All him, all original stuff.  Just in case you guys want to hear it.

If you're impatient- it's definitely Vai or Satriani inspired, reminds me of The Black Mages (Japanese rock band who cover Final Fantasy music)

http://travisaustin.bluedomino.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/breakpoint.mp3
http://travisaustin.bluedomino.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/blue.mp3

Now I will step back out of this thread, into a subject where I belong.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on July 13, 2005, 08:53:28 AM
That's some cool guitar work. It does sound a lot like the Vai/Satriani thing. I enjoyed it, though it's not really my thing: a bit too slick. And I hate synths. I blame Eddie VH and Geddy Lee for that.

The composition is nice, too. A bit more dynamic than most one-man projects, and the drums didn't annoy me, which often happens with drum machines. Personally, I intend to play my own acoustic drums when I put my stuff together, even if it means it's messier.

I also have the benefit of a great bass player...I find it funny (and sometimes frustrating) that I'm /still/ a better bass player than guitar player, even though I put the bass down almost ten years ago and have only been focusing on guitar for the last couple years. I actually started as a thrash metal guitarist, then learned classical in school, then picked up the bass when every bass player we auditioned sucked (our original bass player was from a Rush cover band). When I was playing open mics to see if I could still rock the stage (I can, phew), it was funny how nobody believed (from my playing) that I wasn't really a bass player anymore, hadn't played in years.

Then they saw my right hand fingers dripping blood after two songs, from the burst blood blisters on the tips...I play hard, and had no callouses...but it did prove my point...Anyway, one project I've got going on right now is restoring the neck on my bass, it was gunkified to hell and back from being in storage.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on July 13, 2005, 09:14:51 AM
I had a friend who told me I was a better bass player than a guitar player (I had a guitar in my hand at the time)....

I was *this close* to knocking him across the head with it.

Heh, it's true though...I just won't let anyone else tell me that  :wink:


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: AOFanboi on August 29, 2005, 02:33:18 PM
Me? I play guitars, not mmogs.
Ah, aiming for that level 60 Metallica world tour end game? You need to kill the Kirk Hammet boss mob first.

See? You cannot escape!


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on August 29, 2005, 05:03:00 PM
Kill Kirk Hammett? He's the only one left that shouldn't be smacked across the head.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Merusk on August 29, 2005, 05:34:09 PM
Every shmoe wants to play lead/rhythm.  The real men play Bass.    :evil:


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on August 29, 2005, 05:55:15 PM
I play both....As do most guitarists. I rarely meet a straight up "bass player". They're just guitarists who see bass as having less of a barrier to entry.

Besides, this is Metallica we're talking about. Why someone would want to play bass in a metal band is beyond me. You're going to get mixed out in the end anyways.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Merusk on August 29, 2005, 06:16:53 PM
Playing and being are two different things.  I could give a crap either way as I do neither and was just parroting something I'd read years ago.   However, as you said, you get mixed out in the end*, so you have to REALLY want to play it to be the bassist, IMO. 

*Unless  of course you're Burton oldschool or Terjilligjilo on that newest piece of shit.. Damnit let Kirk play!


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on August 29, 2005, 06:45:07 PM
I don't mean to derail further, but I don't know what the difference is in "playing a bass" and "being a bass player".  Care to explain that to me? Is it some kind of Lemmy thing, or what? :) I mean, I guess I prefer the timbre and feel of guitars more often than other instruments, but all I really am is a musician.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Merusk on August 29, 2005, 08:11:14 PM
Yeah, it's a philosophy and a mindset thing.  Kind of the difference between playing an instrument and being a musician.  I can play the sax, but I'm no musician. It's all technical to me, I have no heart in it.  You can play a bass, but that doesn't make you a bassist if you're just playing it because they won't let you play lead or rhythm. You'll suck at it because your heart won't be in it, even if you're technically perfect.  Just MNSHO.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on August 29, 2005, 08:57:29 PM
All I'm trying to say is that the same "dedication" that requires a musician to be proficient on bass is the same dedication that's used when they pick up a guitar. With basses and guitars, there isn't much to learn to switch from one and have the same effect on the other.

All fall under the disicpline of "string instruments", then further differentiate themselves in such ways like violins and cellos and their use of bows; harps and lutes being non fretted and intonated on a string by string basis; dulcimers using a hammer to sound off notes; sitars using some strings for droning, etc., etc.. Basses aren't too much different than guitars other than that their necks are about 6 inches longer, and they (traditionally, though not exclusively) provide 4 strings instead of 6. Both have at least 21 frets, notes are primarily sounded with a plectrum or finger (and not a hammer or bow), both are traditionally tuned to standard EADG(BE) tuning and use the same scale fingerings......The only striking difference is that the bass is an octave lower. Which kind of, though not necessarily, lends itself to a rhythm mindset (but a "rhythm mindset" is very much a big part of guitar playing anyways....).

Other than that, it's a guitar in every sense. If a guy is a good "bassist" then he's probably pretty competent on a guitar as well. And vice versa. Look at Geddy Lee playing classical duets with Lifeson, or Paul McCartney, who could play better than either John or George -- They're both awesome bass players, and awesome guitar players as well.

I don't see how there's any inherent personality differences in the people who use them, because neither instrument requires much of a paradigm shift to switch to the other. It's not like moving from guitar to percussion or horns. That would make a little more sense.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on August 30, 2005, 08:42:50 AM
Quote
I play both....As do most guitarists. I rarely meet a straight up "bass player". They're just guitarists who see bass as having less of a barrier to entry.
Ahh...I see my perspective is called for! ;)

I started on guitar, but switched to bass when we couldn't find a good bass player. I was good with my fingers from classical fingerpicking. After playing strictly bass for a year, I pretty much started becoming a bass player. There's a different approach and mindset to playing bass, you can't just play guitar licks. It's pretty easy for me to pick out guitar players on bass in local bands, they play it like a low-tuned guitar.

Stray, you're talking technicality. Sure, they're both stringed instruments*. But the way in which they are utilized in a band setting are quite different, a different philosophy. Almost completely different. Hard to explain, I guess.

I'm feeling this now because a local blues artist is interested in me playing bass with him, I told him give me a couple weeks to build up my callouses...but now I'm finding my mindset has shifted and I'm playing bass like the guitar (which I've been practicing exclusively the last few years). That's why he hasn't asked me previously, and I tend to agree with him, as it's a disservice to the music to have a half-assed bass line driving things. A "full-time" or "real" bass player is always preferable.

* But really, one can't play the bass as a guitar due to the low register, the chording gets muddy, you have to adjust everything to fit the honkin' big sound waves you are pumping out and be careful about muddiness. And it's a different 'rhythym mindset', too, more locked in with the drums. My girlfriend finds it fascinating how much I tune into the drums when listening to music, it's from years of bass playing. Not that guitarists don't, as well, just that it's a more visceral thing on bass because your job is to hold the whole mothership together through the ride.

In my college days, we had 6 or 9 guitarists on each track...1 bass player. Even though we had a dozen guitarists and three bass players in the band. Totally different, despite all the similarities.

Hell, listen to a guitarist's solo album, if he's playing the bass. It's generally nowhere near as good as a real bass player, I'm listening to some Buckethead...great guitarist, but leave the bass to the bassists imo. Almost all guitarists make that mistake. I do, too, though at least I have the benefit of 6 years of professional bassing in my repertoire.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on August 30, 2005, 10:02:18 AM
Hard to explain, I guess.

Hah..Give me a little credit here, man. I've been playing both instruments for close to 20 years now. It's not that I play chords on the bass or anything. I hate tooting my own horn --- But I rip it up plenty. Many people have even pointed out (much to my chagrine) that I should be playing bass more than guitar  :x.

The thing is, I wouldn't know anything about bass or guitar playing if it wasn't, first and foremost, because of a general understanding of music. I'm a musician, in the generic sense.

Like I said, I don't play chords on the bass. Nor do I "shred" on the bass. What I do, however, is break chords down to their individual notes. And from there I build a melody and a rhythm. The rhythm is always in the root, and depending on whether the song is major, minor, 7th, 9th, whatever..That's where my note options will be.  The same options are there if I was playing lead guitar instead of bass. Take a C major chord being strummed on the guitar, for example, and you've already got a bassline with C, D, E, G, and A (the same way it'd be safe bet to melodize with those notes on lead guitar).

Now, as for a "guitar player's" mentality coming into the picture. I can understand one thing here -- Some (immature/wanker) guitar players don't understand the role of the backbeat. Which is why they sound like shit on bass. They don't have enough control to keep the rhythm, and start doing fill ins all over the place. They lose track of the root notes and throw themselves off (and the listener as well). But you know what? Those kind of guys suck at guitar too.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Merusk on August 30, 2005, 10:31:40 AM
Now, as for a "guitar player's" mentality coming into the picture. I can understand one thing here -- Some (immature/wanker) guitar players don't understand the role of the backbeat. Which is why they sound like shit on bass. They don't have enough control to keep the rhythm, and start doing fill ins all over the place. They lose track of the root notes and throw themselves off (and the listener as well). But you know what? Those kind of guys suck at guitar too.

See, you get what I was saying, I just had no idea how to convey it to you. These are guys who aren't thinking like Bassists.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on August 30, 2005, 11:09:18 AM
Oh, I play chords on the bass. Just have to be careful so they sound good. The 7th chord turnaround on a 12 bar blues is tight.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on August 30, 2005, 11:13:00 AM
Chords or intervals? More than 2 notes at a time on bass just doesn't fit for me.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Nebu on August 30, 2005, 11:50:30 AM
Oh, I play chords on the bass. Just have to be careful so they sound good. The 7th chord turnaround on a 12 bar blues is tight.

Duck Dunn would hurt me cry if I played chords on my bass.   


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on August 30, 2005, 11:53:25 AM
Nice name drop.  :-D


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Nebu on August 30, 2005, 11:57:14 AM
Nice name drop.  :-D

It was an attempt at humor... apparently, a poor one on my part.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Shockeye on August 30, 2005, 12:42:38 PM
Speaking of Donald "Duck" Dunn, the 25th Anniversary edition of "The Blues Brothers" comes out on DVD today.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: AOFanboi on August 30, 2005, 12:45:29 PM
Why someone would want to play bass in a metal band is beyond me. You're going to get mixed out in the end anyways.
*points at Steve Harris of Iron Maiden as counter-example*

That said, it seems that the Metallica/Ozzy switcheroo has brought them a bass player that knows what you wrote to be true, and thus aims for stage showmanship instead.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Margalis on August 30, 2005, 01:04:53 PM
Iron Maiden doesn't have a lot of low register drums, which is probably why Harris can play bass the way he does.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on August 30, 2005, 01:34:59 PM
/rerail 

I am looking forward to this game (it is in no sense a virtual world).  How the hell did you guys get into that wierdo musician chat anyhow?
I am legally bound from answering this question.

Anyway, Harris is out front because he, you know, started the band and wrote most of the music. It's pretty much the Steve Harris Band, always has been. But as a former metal bassist, I agree with the sentiment, it's certainly possible to have a good metal mix with a strong bass. I would've mixed out Newstead, too. I never found him very interesting on the bass, I really like Trujillo, though. I hope he gets some love on the next album (I actually like St. Anger, too)

The 7th turnaround I refer to is a 3-note chord the way I play it. I actually used bass chords quite a bit, which is why I know how finicky they are, we had one guitarist so I'd do a lot of higher octave playing while he did solo work. And intervals...I do love me some intervals.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on September 06, 2005, 11:58:58 AM
Funny Duck Dunn was brought up...about a week ago I was talking to my local blues buddy and I realized he hasn't had a bass player in his band in two years or so (he duets with a drummer ala white stripes, still a great sound).

So I ragged on him for a bit and looks like I'll probably get the gig. He just told me to work over some Albert King material (King played with the memphis folks - Booker T and Co, including Duck). Duck uses a lot of solid basics, but adds so much flavor to it, it'll take a while to get all the intricacies down, but I can pull off a lot of that stuff without a sweat (as in, all but one track off Born Under a Bad Sign learned in the time it took to play the track, same as this blues buddy's original material).

But it's all about the nuances. Takes a couple minutes to learn the song, a couple years to master the nuances, especially since this is new ground for me, tonally I skipped a lot of theory that didn't apply to minor keys (:(). Fun stuff.

I figured the downside would be my right hand, when I was doing open mics they literally broke out in blood blisters and I bled all over the place. But oddly, it's my left thumb that's killing me, I guess it got out of shape for those long stretches on bass (I have stubby fingers) and increased pressure.

But it's feeling pretty good and once I strengthen that thumb some more, I'll be playing in a blues outfit! Woot and whatnot. Even though my girlfriend feels I should be fronting my own, playing guitar. She just doesn't understand paying dues and learning on the road. What better way to enhance my blues guitar than playing with an excellent blues guitarist, even if it's on bass. I'm still learning all his tricks. Oh, and free beer.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on September 06, 2005, 12:19:05 PM
Dunn is great, but I think I learned more about bass playing from listening to James Jamerson (and Paul McCartney, who's very much like Jamerson in many ways). Maybe it's my preference for Motown over Stax, I don't know.

Albert King is the shit as well. I hate to say it, but umm....Stevie Ray Vaughn....I'm sorry, but he's just trying to be Albert King (and I do like SRV, don't take me wrong). Also, as much as I like BB King, it's kind of sad that everyone knows who BB is, but Albert's barely remembered outside of guitarist circles these days.....But that could just be because BB has had the fortune of living a long time. Albert's influence on modern electric blues is just as far reaching as BB's. They're like the two branches that set the tone for what is blues today..But only BB gets the mention, and the sound that is Albert's is attributed to Stevie Ray.

Anyways, that's my rant..

Blues Power (http://home.earthlink.net/~kthompsen/Blues_Power.mp3) (always a good track...)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Nebu on September 06, 2005, 12:22:27 PM
I'm the guilty party that brought "Duck" into this.  

I've been playing bass for over 20 years now.  As I've grown and matured (yes, they are different things), I've come to realize that more isn't necessarily better.  When I was in my early twenties I got all caught up in technical bass (Lee, Squire, etc.).  Now that I'm older and more secure in my playing, I find that it's more about "the groove" than it is about the notes.  That's something I've always loved about Dunn.  The guy has all the technical skills needed to be a flashy bassist, but would rather find his place in the music.  

Then again, it could be that my fingers just don't move like they used to... damn those synapses.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on September 06, 2005, 01:29:14 PM
That's one thing my girlfriend was concerned with: this guy I'll be jamming with is pretty basic, and I tend to be pretty fancypantsy on guitar. I had to explain it's all about that groove and subtlety.

SRV...I don't really listen to his stuff since I started a serious blues journey through time. He's ok, but he's also real..I dunno, clean and commercial, like a more talented Robert Cray. Too slick imo. Sure, he can crush that texas guitar, and his Little Wing is my very favorite song ever, but overall I don't give him much ear time.

Otoh, Albert's BUBS, which I mentioned above as the album I went to, is one of my very favorites. His voice is just so mellifluous, almost like Orbison on the ballads. His left-handed crazy bending is mind-blowing, and then adding in the band...just some great stuff.

Some other great stuff I've been wearing out: John Mayall's Bluesbreakers with Clapton: such an incredible album. I'm working through some of that on guitar, in fact (I got the majority of All Your Love in one playthrough, woot!). Clapton plays a lot of minor pentatonic, which is my safety zone, so I love jamming his stuff, it flows off my fingers, whereas SRV is a struggle because of the texas shuffle style. Also why I can identify with Pagey really well, too: he does a lot of pentatonic minor with modal coloring. Clapton's From the Cradle is pretty intense, and I've got the DVD he made during the sessions for the Me & Mr. Johnson sessions...I actually like the sessions more than the finished product. And of course, my beloved Robert Johnson cd...I'm years away from his incredible fingerpicking style, but I'm whittling away at it slowly. And Muddy...always listening to Muddy, my first bluesman. Gotta track down that album I had as a kid, a live Muddy disk with Johhny Winter on guitar (which turned me onto that crazy mofo).

So much good stuff.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on September 06, 2005, 02:15:46 PM
Quote
Albert King is the shit as well. I hate to say it, but umm....Stevie Ray Vaughn....I'm sorry, but he's just trying to be Albert King (and I do like SRV, don't take me wrong).
Hope you got that tune, gotta be fast when I'm leeching webspace :)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on September 06, 2005, 02:55:10 PM
He's ok, but he's also real..I dunno, clean and commercial, like a more talented Robert Cray. Too slick imo. Sure, he can crush that texas guitar, and his Little Wing is my very favorite song ever, but overall I don't give him much ear time.

You know what it is? It's that damn in-phase sound (2 and 4 positions on the Strat pickups) that Cray exclusively uses, and Stevie/modern Clapton to an extent. It's good for a lot of things, but for the blues, there's just no balls in it. I don't understand why these guys, who are some of the best blues guitarists ever, gravitate towards that sound. You can hear Stevie's weaker moments in that Stormy clip, for example, and it's only when he's flipped in the in-phase position. Out of phase, he grows his balls back.

Almost everything Clapton does these days (on electrics, that is) sounds sterile and weak for the same reason too.

Little Wing has balls because SRV was doing Jimi, who played in the neck.

Don't take me wrong though...These guys could outplay me for all eternity, even with a shitty tone. It isn't the playing I'm knocking, for sure.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on September 06, 2005, 03:58:18 PM
No, I understand about the criticism disclaimer ;)

Like when I was explaining why I didn't like Tull's guitarist to my girl. I told her that's why I have to be good, I have to be able to back up my opinion with my own playing...eventually. She laughs because I don't compare myself to my peers in the area, I compare myself to Page, Clapton, King, etc. The way it should be imo. Why pat myself on the back because I'm better than some podunk nobody, anyway?

Found an old copy of Cakewalk (9 iirc, with the manual for 8, heh) an old bass buddy gave me years ago. Without the gimping of shareware (no multitracking) I'd been using, I've got to start laying some shit down! I'm not used to cleaning things up for recording, my loose playing style + listening perfectionism run at counter purposes... The bass gig thing is another thing I didn't need on top of trying to work in more guitar.

Gaming? I remember when I had time for that...


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on September 06, 2005, 04:02:58 PM
Well, good luck with all that, man. I hope you have fun.

I haven't done much of anything myself in the way of gigging, or even jamming, for a while now. Not because I don't want to, or because I'm busy....I'm just lacking the motivation or something.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on September 11, 2005, 01:17:28 PM
I've got a new favorite blues album: Hound Dog Taylor's first (http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:5287gjer86ix).

Holy crap man. If you like the blues, check this puppy out. I'm using it for bass practice right now, but the guitarwork is phenomenal as well. Leans a bit to the boogie side of the blues. This is the cd that will clinch my spot in my buddy's band ;)

I also found out I'm improving on slide, I had my acoustic and slide out when doing my first listen and my girl was pretty impressed (though that's not real tough, heh). Improving from totally sucking isn't saying much, heh. Slide ain't easy (good slide anyway...haven't explored open tunings yet ala Derek Trucks, Allman, ad nauseum).


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on September 11, 2005, 01:32:32 PM
I love slide too, but admittedly, I'm not too good at it. I don't play blues slide much though....I use open minor tunings mainly. Kind of gives it a more arabesque/gypsy feel.

[edit] I'll check that CD out.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on September 21, 2005, 08:23:08 AM
Try soloing in that open minor tuning over major chords, that's how a lot of blues go. I'm struggling learning bass lines for blues because there is so much major keying, I keep hitting sour notes :P But it's coming along pretty damn good, I've got a few good patterns with fills and if it calls for a pentatonic bass line, I'm golden.

I was hitting up some guitar sites, and I found a 'lesson' that got me thinking. It was for 'dexterity', just chromatic patterns all up and down the neck. That got me to wondering...do you guys do that kind of stuff? I used to when I first started many revolutions ago, but I found it to be a waste of time. I get my dexterity practice by playing tough pieces or by focusing on tough passages (like repeating a section of string skipping or whatever). I basically don't like playing stuff that's not musical, especially if I can get the same benefit from playing music instead (I tend to the shred side, which bugs me :P).

Still loving that Hound Dog album, got Derek Truck's live album, too. Trucks' live album is a nice melange of styles, blues, jazz, latin, african. Not something I'd listen to every day, but some great jams in there.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on September 21, 2005, 03:09:28 PM
Try soloing in that open minor tuning over major chords, that's how a lot of blues go.

Well, the one I mainly use is open G minor tuning. All I have to do is put the second string back to B, and I've got major G (ala Keef)....So, that works pretty good for blues. I use open D a lot too, which is a blues tuning (i.e. Robert Johnson), but you can do other things with it too.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on October 03, 2005, 09:36:59 AM
Stray, don't kick me :)

Just bought a Gibson SG.

No idea I wanted one, I spent saturday with a guitar tech at a local music shop going through about 50 guitars (a fraction of their selection, just the good stuff). Played a wide variety of strats, because I thought I wanted one...but it's just not versatile enough (and I dislike the out-of-phase positions). Played some expeeeensive Les Pauls, including the Black Beauty (omg...I didn't plug it in, the pickups are too sweet), which I actually didn't care for. The neck was a baseball bat. Went through a couple Schecters, almost bought one with a sweet neck with an abalone vine inlay all up the neck and another with abalone around the perimeter of the fretboard..but they just looked a little too slick for me.

Played some great Gretsches, but again, they are a little too limiting for my main guitar (it'll be a while before I can swing another one as I'm saving for a mortgage). Also worked over some Teles, I really like those guitars, but again, limited sound. I can definitely see a Gretsch, Strat, and Tele in my future, though.

Finally narrowed it down to a sweet Strat and the SG. I had no intention of buying an SG, but when I finally plugged them in, there was no contest. All the guys at the store agreed I was really tearing it up on the SG compared to the Strat, it was pretty funny how the tone made that much of a difference in my playing.

'61 Reissue, standard red stain finish. Got in the car and remembered this thread. D'oh! ;) Anyway, I'm pretty happy with it.
Quote
So, that works pretty good for blues. I use open D a lot too, which is a blues tuning (i.e. Robert Johnson), but you can do other things with it too.
Actually he seems to use an oddball open Aadd7 or something. The exact tuning escapes me just now, I'm still lazily working slide in standard tuning.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on October 03, 2005, 12:11:19 PM
Hey, a 62 RI is FAR better than what I was gonna sell you (though for much cheaper). Mine was a SG Special (did end up selling it though).

Anyways...Congratulations, man. Kick ass guitar. I'd probably have my SG around still, but it helped pay for that Vibro-King I ended up buying. I'm sure I'll get around to owning another some day. Probably a 60's model as well (that 60's slim neck is much better than what they do on current models imo).


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on October 03, 2005, 01:48:29 PM
Going to pick it up tonight, I'm totally stoked. So is my girlfriend...since she doesn't have to hear me say "Damn I need a new guitar" anymore. Now it's "Damn I need a new amp", I was also checking out tube combos surreptitiously :P There was one sweet vintage tweed 2x12 that really sounded shweet...

She also loves Derek Trucks, I didn't tell her until I chose the SG that it's what he plays. Bonus points with the little woman there. We have a deal - she can marry Trucks if I can marry Susan Tedeschi ;)

On the playing front, been making great progress on acoustic blues, getting my foundations. Working turnarounds and vamps and bridges, etc, then applying them to a lot of tunes from Johnson to Clapton, Muddy to Buddy. Listening to a lot of Buddy Guy and Muddy lately.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on October 04, 2005, 10:31:50 AM
OMG why didn't I buy a new guitar years ago!?!

This guitar is so sweet I can't stop playing it. Brought it into work, ostensibly to play show & tell, but really just an excuse to play it some more :)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on October 04, 2005, 10:54:25 AM
Now it's time to buy more  :-D.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on October 04, 2005, 01:20:56 PM
I wish. I'm cool for now, I've got two great guitars now, the SG and the Alvarez jumbo acoustic I bought a few months back. Really going to buy a lot more once I get settled into a nice house in the country, though. Might have a line on a used banjo (gratis) so I don't have to refurb my grandfather's. Then maybe a mandolin. After that, I'll start considering the laundry list: Telecaster, Strat, Gretsch (or Gibson semi), baritone (Jag, maybe), P bass, Ricky bass, dobro, etc, etc, etc.

But for now I'm more than happy.

Actually, as I mention above, now I'm thinking about a nice little tube combo amp...


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on October 18, 2005, 02:15:30 PM
I'm starting to realize lately JUST how much bending is a whole discipline in it's own right.

Of course, I've always known how to bend....But to really make 3 or 4 notes sing, and flow into each other: That isn't easy.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on October 19, 2005, 08:58:24 AM
Yep. And unlike my el cheapo, the SG is set up for very wide bends. I should make a run at some Albert King 2 and 2-1/2 step bending again, literally couldn't bend my old guitar enough to hit them. The SG is like bending butter. If that makes any sense :P

The more I try to work on scales and now chords, the more I have to remember to focus on just a handful of notes and work the shit out of them. My inner critic keeps popping up and saying I need to play an arpeggio or something. I need a popup blocker in my brain. I'm still feeling pretty bad about my playing, but for the first time since I've been dating my girl, I said it sounded good. I mean, it does sound good at times, I guess it's the first time I told her so...odd.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on October 19, 2005, 09:06:48 AM
The SG is like bending butter. If that makes any sense :P

Yeah, though I do like Fenders more, and the old 7.25 radius (newer Fenders are almost 10), I fret out a lot. I don't have my SG anymore, but it's was always better for this kind of stuff.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on October 25, 2005, 10:33:22 PM
You electric players crack me up. :)

Then again, I am not much of a gear-head.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on October 25, 2005, 10:48:32 PM
You electric players crack me up. :)

Then again, I am not much of a gear-head.

Ah, I love my acoustic too! Been playing more of that lately actually.

But yeah, I sound pretty silly when it comes to gear. Ever since I got my new amp and Jazzmaster though, the G.A.S. (Gear Acquisition Syndrome) has subsided. I haven't bought a thing.

[edit]

But...The same madness still applies to all instruments for me. It's a matter of timbre and playability. I could never truly be happy with just one sound and feel. I wish I could though...


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Arnold on October 26, 2005, 03:02:28 AM
I had a bad case of GAS when I got my first good job, and I bought a lot of gear.  I was up to 5 electrics at one point (now I'm at 2).  I still have 5 tube amps though.  But mostly, I've been playing acoustic these days and working on the playing/singing thing.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on October 26, 2005, 08:16:57 AM
Bah, I'm no gearhead. When I was playing bass professionally, I was using a hock shop bass with a hock shop amp. And it was originally the amp powering our singer, pre-PA days when he sang through a 4x12. I like things as simple as possible, with a basic decent tone which I then work with to find a good tone. I'd really like to get a new amp, looks like I'll be playing Oblivion on low settings! With the new guitar, though, my Boss GT6 got some legs and sounds decent enough, I guess. Sky want toobs.

I have crappy tone, but playing through a few Sabbath cds last night (been a looong time since I've jammed metal, though Sab is almost blues a lot of the time), it was sounding really nice with minimal effects. I was in a serious hammering groove, Iommi style. It was a nice break from what I've been working on. My main goal right now is visualization, being able to mentally see more options so I can more closely play what I hear in my head. I can often do this with Em/B mixolydian, but I need to work over more scales and get them all memorized. Blah, I hate that stuff, but it makes me better at what I love, improvisation.

Acoustic? I love mine, read back a few pages, Raph ;) Got one earlier this year.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Miguel on October 26, 2005, 04:13:14 PM
Walking lines on the bass (in blues) is exceedingly easy if you remember 4 notes: 1, 3, 5, and 7 (and yes, that's *major* third).  Every other lead in tone around those notes is legal as well, and sounds damn good.  Bass lines in classical I-IV-V blues changes (12 bar blues) are centered around the root not so you are always safe with those 1-3-5-7 notes, regardless of the key.

As to why this sounds good over a pentatonic blues scale, well, I can't explain the thoery, I just know it works.  Guitarists rarely riff around the minor third so this may be why.  I also walk chromatically to the root of each chord change from whereever I am, since all those lead-in tones are 'legal' as well.

Of course this isn't jazz, so you will spend a lot of time on the roots and 5ths of the chords, especially if the guitar player is way far out there in their soloing.  People don't like it if someone isn't constantly reminding them of the chords!


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on October 27, 2005, 08:24:05 AM
That's what trips me up, the difference between bass lines that sound good with the rock-n-rolly 1,3,5,7 and stuff that sounds good with the walking pentatonic. Just a lack of experience in blues bass, in a way, since most of my blues bass actually came from Sabbath :P I can walk a /mean/ pentatonic line, which bleeds over into my soloing and vice versa (in soloing my blues pentatonic is often merged with various minor scales). But not having a firm grasp of major keys, the 1357 line always sounds like shit if I improv away from standard patterns, mostly because I don't know all the sweet spots.

I'm often on the minor third as a soloist, actually. With a 1/4 step bend, it's very bluesy. I dunno, it's just a great tone all around, not sure why people wouldn't use it.

My next project is a big ol' fretmap so I can start paying attention to note names in places I just have memorized, and to start using that to pay attention to notes I play alot and also as a reminder of coming back to tonal center and to make this a ridiculous runon sentence, also becoming more aware of my melodic motion through changes. Basically trying to pull my theory education back up through the decades of mental sludge I've built up...


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Miguel on October 27, 2005, 12:43:35 PM
Quote
I'm often on the minor third as a soloist, actually. With a 1/4 step bend, it's very bluesy. I dunno, it's just a great tone all around, not sure why people wouldn't use it.

I think I stated it badly in my original post:  actually, the minor third is a *great* note in the pentatonic blues scale, however most of the time guitarists don't start their solo phrasings on it.  Roots and fifths are more traditional places to start, however of course there are exceptions.

The way I think if it is like this:  if I am in a Bflat blues progression, I know that I have four major (or strong) notes that I can emphasive in the chord:  Bflat (the root), D (the major third), F (the major fifth), and Aflat (the seventh).  I always start a walking pattern at the root, and go from there:  if you are jamming with only a guitarist, you are the only person there to establish the root of the chord so it's important that you do so.  If you have a keyboard or piano player with you, he/she will often leave out the roots in order not to tread on your playing.

So a common progression on the first chord (Bf7th) would be something like this (the first four beats leading into the IV chord):

Bf -> D -> F -> Af

Then we go to the IV chord, which is Ef7th:

Ef -> G -> Bf -> Df

Then for the V chord (F7th):

F -> A -> C -> Ef

You could play these four notes and it would sound perfect, since of course the progression is based off the notes of these chords.  However this would be incredibly boring.

So the 'trick' is that you can walk chromatically to the next chord from any of these notes, and it sounds perfect.  Let's take the first example:

Bf -> D -> F -> Af

We are in Bf, and we want to go to Ef, so lets go 'towards' this note:

Bf -> D -> F -> E -> Ef

So once we got on the F, we descend down chromatically towards Ef.  We can do this on the Ef chord going back into Bf:

Ef -> G -> Af -> A -> Bf

This would be a chromatic trend upwards toward Bf.

This sounds good because it leads the ear towards the chord you are moving towards, and the ear picks that up and 'completes' the progresssion.

I have an MP3 of my band playing a progression like this, with bass lines that follow this pattern.  Try this link (http://www.savefile.com/files3.php?fid=4092765)
to download it.  If someone can host permanently that would be great.





Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on November 25, 2005, 08:32:50 AM
(from stray's aborted true confessions derail)

I've been jamming along with major key stuff, trying to get some good riffs going. It's so funny to have a huge trick bag I can't touch while playing. My girlfriend thinks it sounds great (she's a former pianist), because I have to focus on strict melody without riffing at all. Damn her being right sometimes.

But I still crush when a minor key comes on, I can play just about any genre in minor keys.

I've really gotta get into the stuff Miguel is mentioning, playing more interesting stuff over progressions, and developing some good progressions and chords.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Nebu on November 28, 2005, 01:24:30 PM
I have a question for you guys:

I'm a bass player but get dragged into playing guitar quite often (usually because I like to play rhythm and sing harmony and have no desire to solo or vamp much).  I've been playing a strat or tele most of my years and have been toying with the idea of buying a Gibson.  I've had my eye on a late 80's - early 90's Les Paul Studio double cutaway but won't have a chance to play it before buying.  I've played a few Les Pauls and I love the sustain and tone.  Have any of you played the double cutaway and have an opinion to share?  How does the double cutaway vary from the standard Les Paul.  Also, are there other guitars you'd recommend?  I've thought about a Rick or Gretsch as well. I had an old Gibson ES325 a while back and liked it a bit.

Thanks!


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on November 28, 2005, 01:36:15 PM
The DC is obviously lighter....In Gibson terms at least (all mahogany bodies are pretty heavy to begin with). Upper fret access compared to an LP is easier as well.

Soundwise, as far as I'm concerned, the DC's, SG's, and LP's all sound the same when equipped with the same electronics. Besides the 60's models and remakes (like Sky's new SG....Which has a slimmer neck), you'll get the Gibson solid body sound and feel from any of them.

The ES325 is a different beast though, and if you like that, don't expect the same. They're louder, nastier, more prone to feedback, and don't carry the same sustain as a solidbody. Not to say loud and nasty isn't good though! Just different.

Rics are similar, and if it's a Ric with single coils, it even more nasty. Just with more high end bite ala Fender.

So what do you like anyways? Fat, easily overdriven chords, with smooth leads and long sustain? Get the DC if the price is good. Or do you want something more like the Tele and Strat sounds you've been messing with?


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on November 28, 2005, 01:38:50 PM
I would recommend the Gibson SG 61 reissue :P It's a great guitar, I played about a hundred guitars before settling on it. But that's me. I didn't get my hands on a Les Paul double-cutaway, though. Any reason you can't get your hands on it first? It's really worth the journey to a big guitar store to put the entire stable through the motions, imo, especially if you're going to drop big bucks on one.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Nebu on November 28, 2005, 02:15:51 PM
Playing a newer version is possible, but finding a place to play vintage instruments is tougher.  I guess I'll make a trip to Denver and see what I can get my hands on.  Living in Wyoming really has had a profound effect on my ability to explore instruments.  Sometimes I miss my days working as a tech in a guitar shop in Minneapolis.

Thanks for the input Sky.  I'll give the reissue a try... though I think I may be too much of a hack to really appreciate it.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on November 28, 2005, 02:27:16 PM
Playing a newer version is possible, but finding a place to play vintage instruments is tougher.  I guess I'll make a trip to Denver and see what I can get my hands on.  Living in Wyoming really has had a profound effect on my ability to explore instruments.  Sometimes I miss my days working as a tech in a guitar shop in Minneapolis.

Thanks for the input Sky.  I'll give the reissue a try... though I think I may be too much of a hack to really appreciate it.

Yeah, that kind of sucks if you can't explore a bit. Even same model guitars sometimes differ from each other. Especially Gibsons (a lot of the newer, more affordable, multi piece bodies are sketchy especially).

[edit] can't spell today...


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on November 28, 2005, 03:43:10 PM
though I think I may be too much of a hack to really appreciate it.

No one is too much of a hack to appreciate a good guitar. I think even kids deserve a decent instrument, but that's me.

It's a Gibson, just like the DC. The differences apart from the horned and thin body shape (which makes it lighter than both the DC and standard LP), is that it has a 60's style slim taper neck, and '57 Classic pickups (the 57's are modeled after the standard Gibson PAF pickup sound. It's the sound heard in just about all Gibson guitars before 1980. They're not super hot like modern metal humbuckers. Think Angus/Townsend).

The slim neck is what makes it really stand out. 60's Gibsons tried to go for more slim feel like Fenders, but resorted back to the older style baseball bat sized necks by the 70's. Some people prefer the 60's feel.

Note: Depending on what year that DC is, it could have 57's as well.



Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on November 29, 2005, 08:19:05 AM
Yep, the neck sealed the deal for me. There was a $3500 Les Paul that felt like a baseball bat, I thought it sucked...to the amusement of the shop staff. My SG is very thin, but also pretty wide. I'm honest when I say I've never played a better guitar (for me). I can't believe I waited 12 years to get a good guitar, it's really worth it if you enjoy playing, no matter your ability level. Hell, it brought my playing up a notch, easily.

Odd thing - now I see SGs everywhere I go, though a lot seem to have the whammy bar (boo!).


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on November 29, 2005, 01:42:01 PM
though a lot seem to have the whammy bar (boo!).

Yeah, and those Gibson trems are barely stable. Worse than a Strat. Pretty much why I use a Jazzmaster for that kind of thing. It's just as stable as a Floyd Rose, but not as ugly or hard to work on.

I'd still buy a Firebird though:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/lonestar627/Guitars/gibson_firebird.jpg)

As for the use of whammy's in general, I play a lot of surf-ish type stuff and like...Among other things. I like them. I like making all kinds of noises besides just touching frets. I'll yank my strings out with my bare hands if I think it'll make a good song!  :-)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Nebu on December 01, 2005, 12:14:28 PM
I just came across this (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7369771912&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1) during my daily trip through eBay.  I figured that some of you guitar players might appreciate this bass.  It has a thin, fast neck for a bass and a wonderful fuzzy/hollow sound.  I've recorded with one of these basses and while they're pretty terrible for live shows they produce sounds so unique that they're tough to duplicate.

I may just have to buy this thing. 


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on December 01, 2005, 01:36:08 PM
I actually prefer bigger bass guitars, not small ones that guitarists are supposed to like. I did play bass professionally for six years or so, it was tough getting back into guitar after quitting music altogether for about 5 years. My first bass, which was a beater when I was playing guitar in the band, was some monstrously huge peavey bass. Very wide, thick, and long neck. My current bass (after that one was stolen) is a custom bass from the ESP shop in Hollywood. It's pretty thin, thin and long. The custom has some really shitty pickups I never got around to replacing, I was going to slap some bartollinis in it.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Shockeye on December 01, 2005, 02:12:53 PM
Yes, please. (http://cgi.ebay.com/Rare-1969-Gibson-Les-Paul-Goldtop-69-dead-perfect_W0QQitemZ7371020630QQcategoryZ38086QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Nebu on December 01, 2005, 02:45:06 PM
Yes, please. (http://cgi.ebay.com/Rare-1969-Gibson-Les-Paul-Goldtop-69-dead-perfect_W0QQitemZ7371020630QQcategoryZ38086QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

This (http://cgi.ebay.com/ORIGINAL-PRE-CBS-FENDER-CUSTOM-TELECASTER-GUITAR-CASE_W0QQitemZ7369791585QQcategoryZ38083QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) would be more to my liking.  I just need to win the lottery or WSOP.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Shockeye on December 01, 2005, 02:50:27 PM
Yes, please. (http://cgi.ebay.com/Rare-1969-Gibson-Les-Paul-Goldtop-69-dead-perfect_W0QQitemZ7371020630QQcategoryZ38086QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

This (http://cgi.ebay.com/ORIGINAL-PRE-CBS-FENDER-CUSTOM-TELECASTER-GUITAR-CASE_W0QQitemZ7369791585QQcategoryZ38083QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) would be more to my liking.  I just need to win the lottery or WSOP.

Very beautiful.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on December 01, 2005, 03:49:05 PM
Vintage guitar prices make me cry. Please.

There was a time....Hell, only a little over a decade ago.....When yuppies didn't inflate the shit out of everything.

That P90 Goldtop is cheaper than usual though.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Nebu on December 01, 2005, 09:01:18 PM
Vintage guitar prices make me cry. Please.

There was a time....Hell, only a little over a decade ago.....When yuppies didn't inflate the shit out of everything.

That P90 Goldtop is cheaper than usual though.

When I worked in a guitar store in the early 80's, I took a pre-CBS p-base in on trade for about $300.  I'm sorry I ever sold that bass. 

I want that goldtop ...


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on December 02, 2005, 08:16:45 AM
I let a buddy stay with me during his divorce in the mid90s, right about as I was giving up on music. He picked up a mint condition, in case, with tags, Gibson Grabber bass, I forget the year, 63 maybe. For $150 at a yard sale in Mass. He didn't play, just thought he might some day. Even though I opened my doors to him and offered him $500 (all I had, I was warshin' dishes), he wouldn't part with it. Hell, I told him I'd give him my custom ESP plus cash, so he could still pick up the bass, he refused.

That guy was a dick, I'm friends with his ex-wife now.

As far as vintage goes, who cares. If it plays great, I don't care when it was made or what it looks like, really. People should stop watching antiques roadshow.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Pococurante on December 02, 2005, 09:45:41 PM
That guy was a dick, I'm friends with his ex-wife now.

You have a steady now right?  Just want to make sure dick still isn't involved... ;)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on December 04, 2005, 02:44:43 AM
My latest blog post actually has a recording in it. Feedback welcome, tho of course I will ignore it all. ;) It's a pretty simple little piece, and a hurried recording.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on December 04, 2005, 03:24:02 AM
I liked the music, but no offense: Midi guitar cracks me up  :-D.  No fluidity or finger/pick dynamics. I look forward to an audio clip though.

Again, I liked the music itself. No offense.


Also, that partial capo tuning is great. I've never used it before....There's a Townsend vibe coming from my guitar now.

[edit] Something about that song strikes me as sort of....Civil War-ish (?). Y'know, like those old folks songs used in PBS specials? And if it was recorded on a real guitar, it would seem that it'd be even moreso.

Maybe it's the name "Memorial" that's making me say that, I don't know. You can call me crazy if you want :wink:


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on December 04, 2005, 02:58:15 PM
Uh, the blog post has an actual recording. Did you miss that? There should be a little flash player embedded in the post, and you can click on Play and hear the real thing. The whole point was to replace the crappy MIDI. Go forth, and check again! ;)

I wrote the song on Memorial Day quite a long time ago, and yeah, it does have a bit of that old-school sound to it.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on December 04, 2005, 04:45:13 PM
Ah, I see it now. Beautiful, man :)

Much different with the new tempo as well. Only at the slower pace did it take on that 19th century feel. Do you have a recorded version at the MIDI pace too?


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on December 04, 2005, 05:17:16 PM
No, I'm lucky to have this recording of it. I think it was originally written somewhere halfway between the two tempos.

Hey, since you have the tab and a reference recording, you can record it yourself, any tempo you like! I'll post the cover on the blog if you do it. :) Think you can do a shredder version?


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on December 04, 2005, 06:08:03 PM
No, I'm lucky to have this recording of it. I think it was originally written somewhere halfway between the two tempos.

Hey, since you have the tab and a reference recording, you can record it yourself, any tempo you like! I'll post the cover on the blog if you do it. :) Think you can do a shredder version?

Heh. Probably not. I'm a bit of slowhand...With a clanky Fender to boot. I'm sure someone here could though.

I did try messing with that tab last night on my acoustic actually, but ended up getting lost in the possibilities of that capo tuning. I never learned your song, but I did come up with two little things of my own.

A little explanation on "slowhand": I'm lefthanded, but I learned how to play righthanded. It's been 15 years since then, so I doubt I'll ever correct that mistake. In some ways, it may aid me, but my right hand technique, quick fingerpicking especially, isn't all that great. I doubt I could play your song with the same ease as you....And seriously doubt that I could shred it!

I love the loud, racuous, sound of electric guitars and all that, but I've never been much of a shredder. I can if I put my mind to it, I guess, but I'm more from the Neil Young or Richard Thompson school of shredders -- Those who play loud, but try to be as expressive with as little notes as possible ;).


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on December 04, 2005, 07:53:47 PM
That partial capoing style was taught to me by Don Conoscenti  -- http://www.donconoscenti.com/ -- and I use it a lot. Basically, what it does is make an open strum give you the same intervals as a DADGAD tuning, only up one step. But you can use standard tuning chord shapes above it, to either meld with the modal sound, or if you barre or pluck carefully, come back in with a standard diatonic or chromatic sort of vibe.

I like it because it leads to a lot of really cool open fingerings. Just taking your current standard tuning pieces and playing them in it will open up your ears to some cool modal stuff, without putting you as far afield as actually going to a total alternate tuning.

If you feel adventurous, try moving the capo to 4th fret. If you have a second capo, you can also put it on first wherever you like, then capo with the partial two frets above it.

If you feel totally adventurous and are comfy in DADGAD, tune to DADGAD first, THEN use the partial capo. It's yet another world.



Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on December 04, 2005, 09:16:39 PM
Cool thanks for the tips. I'm going to play around with this for awhile now. I can't believe I've ignored the capo all this time!

DADGAD was the first alternate tuning I ever experimented with I think, but since I started playing with DGDGA#D a few years ago, I've become less comfortable and adventurous with the former. The partial capo sounds great though (while DGDGA#D with partial capoing sounds like shit....So far at least).


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on December 05, 2005, 12:02:20 AM

The partial capo sounds great though (while DGDGA#D with partial capoing sounds like shit....So far at least).

Well, yeah... for one, you are losing one note out of the harmony since you have those two octave pairs on your low strings. For another, it's effectively DAEAA#D, which is strange. On the 3rd fret you would get more A#s at least (I'd write it as D-Bb-F-Bb-Bb-D, and now you're in Bb major...) Kinda plain.

What sort of stuff do you play in that tuning? It's like Gm power chord central.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on December 05, 2005, 01:37:41 AM
Crap. I just had a whole bunch written out, but my browser crashed.

I'd offer a few recordings, by my mics suck. The songs that I have been writing lately are being jotted down on a memo recorder. It doesn't make for quality listening.

Anyways....It varies on what I play. The tuning lends itself to a lot of droning and minor sounds, so I do that a lot. There's sort of a Morrocan/Gypsy feel to my leads (Sorry for the non technical terms. Most of my music training has been intuitive and guitar/fretboard pattern oriented). I already have a liking for that Spanish/Surf/Phrygian? sound in standard tuning, so all of that rubs off here as well.

I also alternate between a tuning with the low D dropped to an even lower C.

Sometimes I'll full capo at the second fret for A minor and play slide (it doesn't sound anything like blues slide though).

Over time, I've stumbled into various chord fingerings and areas that have expanded it's use beyond droning leads. Some of the rhythms I'll strum about on my acoustic just sound like normal folkish or pop songs.

I still play in standard tuning more often than not though...And in that respect, I'm pretty traditional. A little mixo/penta based Rock as well as surf and spaghetti western-ish stuff. Alternate tunings are always an adventure though....Not knowing what the hell I'm exactly doing with them is half the fun ;)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on December 05, 2005, 09:12:22 AM
Bah, I'm crappy at acoustic or I'd give it a shot. Sounds great though (!), wish I could play like that! I'm working some fingerpicking techniques but I get frustrated pretty easily by them.

And to make matters worse, I'm a capotard. I've never used one. And a bit of a tabtard, so even if I wanted to put up a version of it (that'd be a cool exercise as I need to record more!), it'd take me forever to transcribe the notation to something I could use.

The only open tuning I've used, and this only in the last month, has been DADF#AD for my slide playing. I've got one nice tune in the works with that tuning, but without my old writing partner I'm super lazy about progressing things beyond the raw ideas phase. I've got a few dozen song ideas mapped out without any structure ;) I used to write with my singer, I'd pull out the main ideas and as he developed lyrics, they gained structure.

I've put this one piece up before, it's my spanishy jam (http://home.twcny.rr.com/iamthey/spanish_jam.mp3). Recording quality sucks, because it's through some crappy shareware, and it was a one-off, just jotting an idea down. I want to get a little hard disk recorder for ideas, because using the pc (well, MY pc) is onerous for that kind of thing. I was practicing fingerpicking patterns a couple years ago and laid the first (barely audible for a lot of it) track down. While listening to playback, I was playing the second track, so before the first track was up, I rewound it and laid the second track over it, never went back to fix it up or do an alternate take...but it's all I've got on my work pc besides some crappy shred piece. I don't even know why I'm posting this after Raph posted that nice piece :P

edit: That was on my crappy old electric guitar, I had the EQ and effects set to make it kinda sound like a nylon string acoustic ;)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on December 06, 2005, 02:08:56 AM
Hmm, I should put up a produced track, if you like that one so much!

Your spanishy piece sounded good, but I couldn't really hear the backing track, only the lead line. :(

What notation do you use if not tab? Just chord shapes? I notate a lot of pieces first pass with chord shapes like this:

Memorial would go something like...

partial capo at 2nd fret as advised (note the tablature on the site is already capoed at 2nd fret, then partial capoed at 4th fret, so don't let that mess you up).

now, pretending that the partial capo is the nut, your chord forms are:

xxx2x2  (e.g., open strings on the x's, holding the highest string and the string two strings lower at 2 frets above the partial capo)
x2xx2x
x4x2xx
xx2xxx
3xxxx3
2xxxxx
0xxxx0
xxx23x

that should get you the main riff. Obviously, most of those x's are strings that are actually played.

I generally record using a A-T condenser mic in front, a cardioid pointed at the 12th fret or at the amp, plus the pickup running direct, all running into my 4-track (which has a 6 track mixer on it); from there into the Audigy card, into ACID usually. I also have a compressor/limiter I just about never use (it seems so NOISY!). ACID is just very handy for messing about.

My pickup in my main acoustic (which is what you heard in the recording) sucks though. I think that recording is just the mic open air.

Besides my main acoustic (a Blueridge with a neck like a baseball bat, the way I like it) I also have a Baby Taylor, a Mike Kelly mandolin, a mtn dulcimer, a Gibson '62 acoustic that I use for slide, a goofy Star Wars Fernandes electric, and my grandfather's old Harmony uke. Like I said, not an electric gearhead. :)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on December 06, 2005, 08:38:37 AM
No, I use tab...it's just that whole partial capo thing I'm not getting. I don't use capos, and I'm not sure I understand the partial capo concept. I was saying I'd have to transcribe the notation into raw tab, not considering the capo, which might make it impossible to play :P

That spanishy thing was recorded on el cheapo, direct into my asus a7n8x :P Using some shareware I don't like and don't have a manual for, heh. As I mentioned earlier, I really need a little 4 track of some kind for jotting stuff down, I haven't recorded anything in the last year or so!

I used to be a little bit of a gearhead, but it was all stuff that I got very cheaply. I had one of those first gen ART DSPs, but other than that I had about six stomp boxes (ProCo Rat distortion was my favorite, I was into metal in the 80s). My favorite rack gear was a Time Machine or summat, a great 70s echo/reverb unit that was capable of some truly odd stuff, got that one in a deal from a band that was hanging it up (their whole PA system for $1k!). I was playing a pearl BC Rich Bich, a knockoff V, knockoff Strat, a Martin Acoustic (man I wish I still had that), various cheapo guitars for throwing around, and my Peavey Bass. Laney full stack (head + 8x12 loaded with nice celestions) for guitar and an ancient amp (forget the name) and 2x15 for bass.

My current rig is also piecemeal: my SG, as mentioned, Alvarez Jumbo Acoustic, my el cheapo Cort for slide, and my ESP custom bass. Up until this year I only had my bass and el cheapo. A couple years ago I bought a Boss GT6, which is nice enough. I've not found a real comfortable sound on it yet, though, but it's fine for practice. I'm playing guitar through part of my bass rig. When my old band split and certain people absconded with much of the gear (meh, fuckers, it's happened many times to me), a bunch of locals who knew me back when helped me get my shit together, I got a crappy Peavey amp (Mark III Centurion) that I'm putting into a Dean Markley 1x15 cab loaded with a 400W EV full range 15". That's what I'm playing guitar through now, I also have an Ampeg 8x10" that I'm not using because it's a bit much for practice ;) Also, the Mark III doesn't drive it well, need the head for that unit some day, it's sweet. Got the head, the 1x15 and the 8x10 for $200. Got a ubiquitous shure sm57 laying around somewhere, I run that through the GT6 into headphones when I'm in the mood. The list is rounded out by an old beater drumset, it's beat to hell and back, really needs new heads but I hate dropping any money on it. I replaced the footpedal because I broke the cheap old one ;)

Thinking about getting a Fender Twin at some point, but the current setup cuts the mustard ok for just messing around.

/ramble


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on December 06, 2005, 10:55:23 AM
See, the whole last paragraph just about lost me entirely. :)

I have a Boss ME-50 effects pedal unit, and a Genz-Benz acoustic amp (Shenandoah Jr). That ends my lengthy list of amplified gear.

Oh, and I do have a bass, I forgot to list that, it's a Washburn.

The tab that is there is written as if the capo is not there at all. So if you follow the tab straight, you'll learn the piece in standard tuning. But I bet it'll be a bitch. :) At the very least, capo normally at 2nd fret, or you'll have to try to play the whole thing out of position.

The partial capo concept... well, a regular capo just moves the tuning of the guitar up by as many half-steps as you want depending on what fret you put it on. But a partial capo is like having a third hand that just holds down a chord shape for you, and you play above that chord shape. Imagine if you were in standard tuning in the key of A, and someone held down the regular open A for you down at the 2nd fret, which you noodled aorund up the neck. Every open string you hit will be in tune, because the A is held for you down there.

The particular capoing we're discussing actually gives you an Esus4 as your "base chord" down there.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on December 06, 2005, 11:13:46 AM
Ahh, ok, I understand how you tabbed it now. Capos are still voodoo or mob bosses in my book :P I'd probably play it a whole step low with 2=O, etc. But I can see how the capo is superior in a lot of situations because you can play in standard tuning for the rest of the neck. Just tough wrapping my head around a partial capo, I only think of them as a full bar across the fretboard.

That gear paragraph really just boils down to a few guitars, the Boss GT6 effects unit, an amp head and cabinet. Nothing fancy, I just got rambly talking about it.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Righ on December 06, 2005, 12:37:00 PM
I thought that this was a partial capo:

http://media.putfile.com/thumpoff


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on December 06, 2005, 01:09:04 PM
Heh, I guess you could call it that, but that's "partial" in a different sense. He's just muffling basically.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Righ on December 06, 2005, 01:32:19 PM
I know - I was being facetious, and using it as an excuse to post some fabulous Wooten bass. :)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on December 06, 2005, 10:16:18 PM
[edit] Oops. Wrong thread.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Jimbo on December 08, 2005, 06:14:53 AM
I still have my first real guitar that I saved my money from detasiling corn and doing odd jobs.  It is a Gibson Corvus II, still in great shape after all these years.  I'm not sure what happened to my Peavey Decade practice amp...should have gotten the Marshal 10 back in the 80's, but hey I was a rock-n-roll plowboy who dug the country/rock mix.   :-D

I'm glad I didn't add the Kahler aftermarket or Floyd Rose aftermarket tremolos system and I'm really glad I didn't get the Washburn tremolos system that the guitar shop wanted me to get, even if it didn't add any holes to my ax (heck I can't find any information on that unit...it was a big clunky system that mounted in your bridge and had all the cams in there so they didn't have to cut into your body, with a neck locker too...).

Found a pic of what the Corvus I looks like :
http://www.muc.de/~hm/music/Guitars/gibson-corvus-82973530/


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on December 08, 2005, 06:43:46 AM
I still have my first real guitar that I saved my money from detasiling corn and doing odd jobs.  It is a Gibson Corvus II, still in great shape after all these years.  I'm not sure what happened to my Peavey Decade practice amp...should have gotten the Marshal 10 back in the 80's, but hey I was a rock-n-roll plowboy who dug the country/rock mix.   :-D

I'm glad I didn't add the Kahler aftermarket or Floyd Rose aftermarket tremolos system and I'm really glad I didn't get the Washburn tremolos system that the guitar shop wanted me to get, even if it didn't add any holes to my ax (heck I can't find any information on that unit...it was a big clunky system that mounted in your bridge and had all the cams in there so they didn't have to cut into your body, with a neck locker too...).

Found a pic of what the Corvus I looks like :
http://www.muc.de/~hm/music/Guitars/gibson-corvus-82973530/

Yeah, those were made when 80's guitarists considered Gibson's timeless designs, like the LP, to be out of touch (when it was actually those guitarists who were out of touch). The same thing happened to Fender to an extent as well. That was probably the last time when an average player could get a real nice vintage piece for an affordable price......Because all of the expensive guitars were Jacksons and Kramers!

Some of the ideas from back then were pretty neat though. The Corvus is both can opener AND guitar at the same time ;).[


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on December 08, 2005, 08:26:26 AM
My guitar player had a couple nice Ibanez blade guitars, a bit thinner than my SG, basic strat body shape, though. My bass is an 80s metal shape, very pointy, kinda like an explorer put through the Buzz Bunny experience. And I did play BC Richs for a while, I would still play a Warlock, they are pretty nice. But yeah, the 80s had some very weird stuff, especially the headless little box guitars.

Tremolos...blah. Everyone and their brother was using Floyd Rose floating bridges (and Jacksons and Kramers, heh), and I had such a heavy right hand (my band began as pure thrash metal, we were blistering) I'd fuck up everyone's guitar when I played it :P I hated those things, probably formed my anti-tremolo bias I still have. First thing I'd do with a new guitar is take off the bar if it had one. Love my SG with just a simple fixed bridge, it's perfect.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Furiously on December 10, 2005, 12:55:09 AM
good stuff here for you Sky

http://www.godofguitar.com/poses.htm


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: penfold on December 15, 2005, 05:15:59 AM
Nice thread.

I'll be buying my first guitar tommorow. Not sure what one yet, will be heading down to see whats good for me and in my price range. Will be doing the equivilent of taking a mechanic along when buying a car as my guitar playing sound engineer/muscian friend is coming and will test, advise and haggle for me :)

Will also be getting a Guitarport (http://www.line6.com/guitarport/) (watch out for the dodgy music on the flash intro if at work, it blares unexpectedly) for effects and stuff. I'm into metal but my (and aforesaid music bloke) roots are in tech/dance music so its a cool crossover with an interface i understand and i like the idea of the online lessons and stuff.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: OcellotJenkins on December 15, 2005, 08:10:33 AM
Anybody here, besides me, into bluegrass or appalachian folk music?  I've been flat picking on a Martin DMX for 5 or 6 years now but aside from festivals, it's hard to find people to play with anymore. 


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on December 15, 2005, 08:39:13 AM
I saw an incredible mandolin player with a trio (guitar and fiddle) a couple weeks ago in Clinton. The guy's name escapes me, but he's a legend in the field, he was 71 or 72 and jamming like mad. Had a great and funny personality, too. Wish I could remember his name! An acquaintence of mine from the local Fender shop plays mandolin in a jam band and got on stage with that guy for a few numbers, he was phenomenal as well. Here's the site for his band, WoodenSpoon (http://www.woodenspoontheband.com/).

I got a line on another local metal jam, I had mentioned the old one I played at a few times (the first time I've played 'out' in a decade!). This one has all the usual local suspects, so I'm not real hot to get down there, especially in the winter when there is poor turnout (of musicians). There is a reason my band left this area, it's amazingly bad for creative eclectic musical folk....unless you dig a commute to jam, and I like to play a lot. I've gotten responses from a few guys I know that range from a 45 minute commute (each way), which blows for me since I want to jam at least three nights a week, to "I need $150 to plug in" (we call him HunnertFitty now) to "I only practice with the band once a week, I can learn the songs at home" Everyone is very paying-gig oriented, and I'm not in it for money at all, just to jam. Bah.

At least I'm still making (slow) progress in my own playing. It's cool when you're working on some theory and suddenly realize why you've been playing certain riffs for years. I love the feeling when something magically drops into place like that, it's pretty rare. Listening to a lot of Buddy Guy for inspiration, he's the man. Also Susan Tedeschi, she's a total badass. And Brian Setzer, but his playing fries my fragile circuits.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: MisterNoisy on December 15, 2005, 09:33:20 AM
Nice thread.

I'll be buying my first guitar tommorow. Not sure what one yet, will be heading down to see whats good for me and in my price range. Will be doing the equivilent of taking a mechanic along when buying a car as my guitar playing sound engineer/muscian friend is coming and will test, advise and haggle for me :)

Awesome.  Good idea taking a knowledgeable player with you if it's your first guitar purchase, too.  :)

I also picked up a new bass (http://www.zzounds.com/item--IBAEDA900SVF) fairly recently when Musician's Friend was blowing them out at $299 including HSC.  It's not the 5'er I really wanted, but it's still a damned sweet instrument.  Super-articulate (occasionally a bit too bright) thanks to the piezos, and has the ultra-skinny/slim Ibanez bass neck.  Lightweight and very resonant -- sounds great even when played unplugged.  The distinctive looks are just icing, though they're likely the reason the bass is discontinued now.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on December 15, 2005, 11:13:35 AM
Anybody here, besides me, into bluegrass or appalachian folk music?  I've been flat picking on a Martin DMX for 5 or 6 years now but aside from festivals, it's hard to find people to play with anymore. 

I'm into the more catch-all "Americana", if that counts? I like a lot of old American roots and folk as well, but nothing particularly/strictly bluegrass (not to say that I don't like it....I just don't own any specific albums or play that way).


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on December 15, 2005, 11:27:36 AM
That's a shweet looking bass, Mr N! Cool beans. I did the same thing when I got my ESP custom, I had been at the Carvin store playing a very nice 5 string, but I was sold on the neck on the ESP. I do miss Hollywood, with manufacturer stores, vintage stores, and Guitar Center all in a couple blocks.

Now I need some new damn pickups for the old clunker, that's one reason I got it pretty cheap: stock passive crap pickups I always meant to replace with some Bartollini p-bass pickups.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Nebu on December 15, 2005, 12:12:11 PM
Nice bass Mr. N.  As for the 5 string bit, I always figured that if I wanted more than 4 strings I'd play guitar.  I'm still banging away on my 1970's Fender Jazz 4 string and can't imagine going to 5.  The neck width alone makes me cry. 

I hope that you discover the joy in music that all of us in this thread find. 

I picked this bass (http://www.ibanez.com/guitars/guitar.asp?model=AGB140) on eBay for dirt cheap last week and have been using it to see if I could harness some new sounds.  It's an inexpensive bass, but put together relatively well for the cost.  If I like the sound and feel of the open body, I'll likely pick up a vintage Vox teardrop or a Gibson from the late 60's.  Now I just need to find a good guitar and I can stop buying instruments for a while... I need an excuse to build myself a new cabinet!


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Arnold on December 17, 2005, 04:21:07 AM
I still have my first real guitar that I saved my money from detasiling corn and doing odd jobs.  It is a Gibson Corvus II, still in great shape after all these years.  I'm not sure what happened to my Peavey Decade practice amp...should have gotten the Marshal 10 back in the 80's, but hey I was a rock-n-roll plowboy who dug the country/rock mix.   :-D

I'm glad I didn't add the Kahler aftermarket or Floyd Rose aftermarket tremolos system and I'm really glad I didn't get the Washburn tremolos system that the guitar shop wanted me to get, even if it didn't add any holes to my ax (heck I can't find any information on that unit...it was a big clunky system that mounted in your bridge and had all the cams in there so they didn't have to cut into your body, with a neck locker too...).

Found a pic of what the Corvus I looks like :
http://www.muc.de/~hm/music/Guitars/gibson-corvus-82973530/

Yeah, those were made when 80's guitarists considered Gibson's timeless designs, like the LP, to be out of touch (when it was actually those guitarists who were out of touch). The same thing happened to Fender to an extent as well. That was probably the last time when an average player could get a real nice vintage piece for an affordable price......Because all of the expensive guitars were Jacksons and Kramers!

Some of the ideas from back then were pretty neat though. The Corvus is both can opener AND guitar at the same time ;).[

The Fender of the day was stupid though.  They should have made out like bandits in the 80s, but they waited too long before trying to get in on the action.  They should have gone humbucker + Floyd Rose WAY earlier, and they should have backed a dump truck, filled with money, into EVH's driveway.

Now they've got Charvel/Jackson + EVH, and it will add a different market share and, in the case of EVH, boost their sales, but they should have done that shit when he was a REALLY hot property.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Arnold on December 17, 2005, 04:24:46 AM
Also Susan Tedeschi, she's a total badass.

No Derek Trucks love?  He is amazing.  I love Warren Haynes, but whenever I watch that newest ABB DVD, I scream at the screen, "JUST STFU AND LET TRUCKS SOLO!" everytime Warren takes a solo.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: penfold on December 17, 2005, 01:52:03 PM
Bought myself a Yamaha RGX121Z (http://www.chamberlainmusic.com/ProductDetail.asp?ProductID=RGX121Z) in sliver, a Guitarport (which is great) and various assorted accessories and am happy so far :)

My friend got the Ibanez S520EX (http://www.ibanez.com/guitars/guitar.asp?model=S520EX) and will be putting in some EMG pickups, i get the ones in the S if they fit, and my brother took back an ESP he bought last week that turned out to be slightly damaged and upgraded to the Ibanez JEM7V. (http://www.ibanez.com/guitars/guitar.asp?model=JEM7V)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: MisterNoisy on December 17, 2005, 07:31:27 PM
Nice bass Mr. N.  As for the 5 string bit, I always figured that if I wanted more than 4 strings I'd play guitar.  I'm still banging away on my 1970's Fender Jazz 4 string and can't imagine going to 5.  The neck width alone makes me cry.

Thanks, Neb and Sky.  :) 

As for the 5-string thing, I just like the extra bit of range that they offer, though I prefer narrower neck widths in general (I started with an Iby Soundgear).  The EDA905 5-string, and to a lesser extent, my Peavey bass, have fairly narrow string spacing, so it's tolerable still - I've fiddled around with some others (Warwick 5-strings in particular) that always make me feel like I'm trying to play an aircraft carier, even with fairly long hands.

I picked this bass (http://www.ibanez.com/guitars/guitar.asp?model=AGB140) on eBay for dirt cheap last week and have been using it to see if I could harness some new sounds.  It's an inexpensive bass, but put together relatively well for the cost.  If I like the sound and feel of the open body, I'll likely pick up a vintage Vox teardrop or a Gibson from the late 60's.  Now I just need to find a good guitar and I can stop buying instruments for a while... I need an excuse to build myself a new cabinet!

Damn, I like those Iby semi-hollows.  They've got both that and the doublecut version of it at the local shop, and I can't resist picking 'em up and doodling away for a little every time I visit.  Right now, I'm kinda hankering for a short-scale (mmm... Mustang bass reissue)  for some reason though, and am running out of space for all my instruments as it is. 

Gah.  So much gear, so little time.

Bought myself a Yamaha RGX121Z (http://www.chamberlainmusic.com/ProductDetail.asp?ProductID=RGX121Z) in sliver, a Guitarport (which is great) and various assorted accessories and am happy so far :)

My friend got the Ibanez S520EX (http://www.ibanez.com/guitars/guitar.asp?model=S520EX) and will be putting in some EMG pickups, i get the ones in the S if they fit, and my brother took back an ESP he bought last week that turned out to be slightly damaged and upgraded to the Ibanez JEM7V. (http://www.ibanez.com/guitars/guitar.asp?model=JEM7V)

Awesome -- the two or three other Yamahas I've picked around on have been nice playing axes, and the pickup swap shouldn't be a problem.  I've been really curious about the GuitarPort, but have had decent (nothing pro-quality, but it's tolerable) results simply feeding a multi-FX directly to my soundcard for recording.  I hope you dig it and keep at it -- even though I'll probably never play for anyone but myself, I get a lot of pleasure from it.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on December 19, 2005, 09:12:05 AM
No Derek Trucks love?  He is amazing.  I love Warren Haynes, but whenever I watch that newest ABB DVD, I scream at the screen, "JUST STFU AND LET TRUCKS SOLO!" everytime Warren takes a solo.
Trucks is great. We saw him with ABB in September and with his band in November. I prefer him with ABB way more, because of the interplay with Haynes and because his solo stuff is jazzier, and I barely like jazz. Both were great performances, though. I totally disagree with you about Haynes, he's an incredible guitarist and singer, too. It's one of the reasons ABB shows are so great, everyone on the stage (including the Juke Horns w/La Bamba) just kills. You can focus in on anything on stage and it's better than many bands entire output. We got the Instant Live cds (3) of the show, they hold up to the vintage ABB stuff I've got (Atlanta Pop and Fillmore). But...they've got a DVD with the new lineup? Woohoo!

After the holidays, I'm thinking of getting one of these (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=home/search/detail/base_pid/240341/). I need something for ideas, and I don't like using the mouse to move sliders :P


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on February 16, 2006, 09:50:15 AM
Prompted by a joke in the Useless Video thread, I remembered my camera has video capability. So I made a crappy improv video just to see how it'd turn out. Here it is, fuckups and all (removed video link, took it down due to MB), I'm just jamming off the cuff to test the idea. Figured it might be passingly interesting to someone, at the least you can see my nice SG :P Well, kinda.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Furiously on February 17, 2006, 01:00:29 AM
You cut your head off.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: penfold on February 17, 2006, 08:41:58 AM
You cut your head off.

Hey... guitar players want to see guitar and the hands playing it :)

Nice one Sky. I enjoyed watching it. I like SGs


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Nebu on February 17, 2006, 09:34:08 AM
Guitar players have heads?


<Nice improv Sky.  You're going to make me want an SG damn you!>


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Soln on February 17, 2006, 09:54:36 AM
So my two cents.  And I have not read the full thread.  :)

Haven't posted since I haven't played seriously in a while.  Regardless...

My goal in 1994 was a Gibson _anything_.  Through great karma I got my hands in 1995 on a Gibsons ES-335 to supplement my hopelessly thick and high-action acoustic Fender FGx.  I played a lot of pop, some funk with it, wee jazz.  Had a "guitar computer" second hand for a while that allowed me to change to strat, etc.  Also had a lovely twin-chorus amp which was a jazz delight.   When I say "jazz" you must know I mean "standards" and BS, nothing original or interesting.

Ultimately, what I find myself pining for these days is a really really nice (American made) Strat AND one of these ... GODIN  (http://www.godinguitars.com/godinproductlistingp.htm).  I first encountered the Godin guitars (from Quebec no less) in a music shop in Belgium.  They are fascinating guitars.  One day, when I'm as rich as Raph I too shall have n+1 amazing guitars.  /dream

(http://www.godinguitars.com/gtrsacs.jpg)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on February 17, 2006, 10:30:32 AM
The thing about guitars...they make a great investment if you buy quality. I'll have my SG on my deathbed, after going through another 18 pcs or so (assuming I die in my mid70s), a few more hdtvs and projectors and cars and maybe even houses.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Nebu on February 17, 2006, 12:07:29 PM
If you like the Godin guitars but are looking for a non-classical for flat or fingerpicking, this (http://www.tacomaguitars.com/products/search.php?partno=0381100721) isn't a bad alternative.  As a resonant guitar for onstage or recording, Tacoma makes a very decent guitar for the money.  Think of it as a budget alternative for the non-nylon crowd.

I actually own a Tacoma acoustic and bought it to ease my urge to own a Martin. I'm very pleased with the quality and sound of the instrument for the price.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on April 20, 2006, 07:11:24 AM
Thought it'd be cool to post some guitar vids

Otis Rush (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1u18IFzvbA) (gotta love that crowd)

If you didn't know, he played upside down (Low E on the Bottom, High E on Top).

Jeff Beck - Brush with the Blues (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKVr6CZg4HQ&search=jeff%20beck) (aka How to really use a vibrato bar...And a guitar for that matter)

And just for a laugh: Sun Ra (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SsBtfuSDxw&search=sun%20ra)



Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: penfold on April 20, 2006, 07:25:08 AM
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=guitars+suck

3 vids showing clips of guitarists doing tricks and other virtuoso type stuff. Bumblefoot, Rusty Cooley,  Shawn Lane, Jimi, Buckethead,  Satch, Vai, the usual lot. The original is the best one i think, although theres some cool accoustic stuff on No. 3.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on April 20, 2006, 09:48:13 AM
Oh man, I loves me some Otis Rush. There's the real deal. Almost all I listen to these days are the old-timers. Nice little arpeggios in there, so much feeling. I wish I could slow down and phrase more like that, I always end up playing more like Johnny Winter... And man, can that cat SWEAT!

Jeff Beck is a great guitarist, but his performances somehow are always lacking, imo. I guess I'm just a bit too into traditional blues? I dunno, I definitely like his playing, but not his style, or something. I'm not a fan of the whammy bar or tapping. He's also kind of a dick.

Guitars Suck 3...the 12-string stuff was decent. The rest of it was pretty much shitty masturbation. Great technique, shitty music. Exhibit A in why I hate drum machines, at the very least. Reminds me of when I was 16 and too young to know any better.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: penfold on April 20, 2006, 01:03:18 PM
My background is drum and bass/hard techno music, as with the musician friends I know (heh, we end up playing highly repetative, very heavy rhythm without even realising it when jamming but im gradually slowing my head down to some different timings). All that tech and drum machine business sounds pretty good when done right and with the appropiate kit, virtual drummers have come a long way since an 808. The Guitars Suck vids are admittedly a complete wankfest though, and theres a couple of examples of why shredding a million notes a minute is pointless if none of the million notes actually go together, but I love that shit.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on April 20, 2006, 01:31:16 PM
Bah computerized drums. I used them extensively in the studio and in college (I was a studio engineering dual majored with improvisational performance). But it's a matter of taste, when I was younger I dug it and electronica (which wasn't electronica then...). I used to use very early generation digital gear and echo boxes to create what can be done real easy with modern effects. It was fun stuff, but almost totally lacking in emotion.

Now I have my own (cheap, crappy) drum kit and I'm dying to buy a house so I can set them up and record rhythym tracks to play over.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: penfold on April 20, 2006, 03:29:25 PM
My friend uses the Steinberg Virtual Instrument plugins for the backing tracks, mainly the bassist and drummer. They are huge sample librarys basically (50gb install or something), although as he's a sound engie/musician type he can actually combine the digital recording/logic pro/instrument plugins and real instrument into something workable and actually has the ability to lay down something structured enough to play over. There's way too much of a learning curve for me to use unfortunatly.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on April 20, 2006, 07:17:10 PM
Hillybilly Yngwie (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q8N-HDUvvg&search=60%27s%20country)

Sister Rossetta Sharpe (http://youtube.com/watch?v=4xzr_GBa8qk&search=rosetta%20tharpe) rocking gospel on a White SG

More upside down crazyness. This time from Albert King (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4xhS3dPTdk&search=albert%20king)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on April 20, 2006, 11:18:34 PM
Jeff Beck is a great guitarist, but his performances somehow are always lacking, imo. I guess I'm just a bit too into traditional blues? I dunno, I definitely like his playing, but not his style, or something. I'm not a fan of the whammy bar or tapping. He's also kind of a dick.

I understand, I think. I think it's a matter of his songwriting style, and not necessarily his playing?

Anyways, it's not like I'm a big fan or anything, but I still dig the guy if only because he's so innovative when it comes to technique. Nobody really sounded like that or got those kind of noises out of an electric guitar until he came along.

He might be better off if he didn't even try to resemble blues or rock at all though...Like in this clip: Link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3Vktv_yB7s&search=jeff%20beck)

The other cool thing about him is that he's probably the only person in the world who's maintained a Ziggy Stardust haircut for 30 years.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: MisterNoisy on April 26, 2006, 01:27:27 PM
Just saw this (http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/peripherals/lightsnake-smart-audio-cable-169650.php) at Gizmodo.  Quite possibly the coolest thing for guitar I've seen in a long time.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on April 26, 2006, 05:09:36 PM
Pretty cool. Not that expensive either ($40).


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Nebu on April 26, 2006, 05:14:02 PM
Just saw this (http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/peripherals/lightsnake-smart-audio-cable-169650.php) at Gizmodo.  Quite possibly the coolest thing for guitar I've seen in a long time.

That's very cool.  It reminds me that I need to record more... except that recording always reminds me of those little bad habits that I can so easily hide with effects pedals.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on April 28, 2006, 08:50:29 AM
That looks cool. I've been shopping for a HD recorder for a while, though, because I tend to lose ideas in the time it takes my pc to boot up and run a cable to it  :| Also, mouse != faders, I hate the mouse interface for recording.

I've learned HD recorders are a gaggle of compromise. Either it's too feature-limited or it's a total goddamned studio.

At the least I want four simultaneous mic/line inputs (for drums, snare/bass/2 ambient), the ability to upload discreet tracks to the pc (cheap models export the whole bundle), decent onboard faders, aux for punch-ins, stuff I thought was pretty basic, heh.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on April 28, 2006, 08:56:18 AM
Believe it or not, a Roland drum sample disc and a sampler are a pretty good alternative. The disc I have has about 30 different kits on it (which you can mix and match, etc.). You'd be missing actual drumming dynamics, of course, but it's still a lot more realistic than the average drum machine.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on May 04, 2006, 06:59:30 AM
/rant

So is it me or is the typical guitar player flat out ignorant of "technical" things?

And when I say technical, I use that term lightly. I'm not talking about mods or amp maintainance. Just little things. Like adjusting intonation or getting their EQ settings right. Hell, I know plenty of people who'd consider even a string change some kind of big job....And then when they do happen to change strings, they can't even do that right either (You know, when they just wind the string all the way into the post, instead of giving it slack? Or when they let 8 inches of wire swing around on their headstock?).

Also, I have a neighbor who's probably been playing for 40 years, and he barely changes his strings.....And when he does, he tries to salvage the old ones by boiling them. I'll tell him: "Dude, I've got a gazillion packs at home. Take one," but then he acts like that's some big deal.

I don't know what's that's all about.

Secondly: Tuning. More often than not the sound coming out people's guitars is out of tune and out of pitch. Yet, they go about their happy way, completely oblivious that they sound like complete shit (regardless of what the song is, or if they have skills).

Thirdly: Tone/Timbre/etc. I may be a little picky here, but again, I'm not talking about anything silly, like Ash vs Mahogany or Rosewood vs Maple. Just simple things.

For example, I've got a friend, who for the life of me, can't distinguish between a humbucker and a single coil sound. Apparantly, all guitars are the same to him, besides looks. The same goes for amps -- There's just clean and distorted in his world. This is a guy, who, for some reason, makes (rather, has made) money playing music.

/rant off


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: MisterNoisy on May 04, 2006, 09:42:42 AM
/rant

So is it me or is the typical guitar player flat out ignorant of "technical" things?

And when I say technical, I use that term lightly. I'm not talking about mods or amp maintainance. Just little things. Like adjusting intonation or getting their EQ settings right. Hell, I know plenty of people who'd consider even a string change some kind of big job....And then when they do happen to change strings, they can't even do that right either (You know, when they just wind the string all the way into the post, instead of giving it slack? Or when they let 8 inches of wire swing around on their headstock?).

I've noticed it, but what other people do has never really bothered me - if the situation permits, I usually offer to do a setup for them.  The combination of fear and ignorance is what keeps 'guitar techs' in business doing maintenance and setups, despite the ready availability of the Internet and cheap tools.  One of the advantages to buying and modding up cheap gear or building from kits is that you have no fear when it comes time to take the things apart, and can then apply that experience elsewhere.

I keep waiting for one of the guys with strings hanging out all over the place to stab someone in the eye.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on May 11, 2006, 01:59:00 AM
Being an acoustic player, I just learned how to adjust intonation on an electric two weeks ago.  :|

I also have no idea what the tonal difference between a single coil and a humbucker is. :)

I can tell the difference between spruce and koa tops, though.

Anyway, that's all about to change. I just inherited a '61 Gibson Melody Maker. Despite being in a basement for thirty years, it's in great shape. The repair guy at the local shop looked at it, and sent it back, saying "you can do everything that needs done to it."

It sounds great too. I can tell the tonal difference between it and the cheapo Fernandes electric I have.

The repair prognosis on the 112-year-old banjo (not a typo -- SS Stewart, 1894), however, was a bit dicier. Looks like it'll be maybe $175 and a few weeks to get it back into shape.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Broughden on May 11, 2006, 03:31:48 AM

The repair prognosis on the 112-year-old banjo (not a typo -- SS Stewart, 1894), however, was a bit dicier. Looks like it'll be maybe $175 and a few weeks to get it back into shape.

I wouldnt have a "guy at the local repair shop" working on a 112 year old musical instrument. I would look for a professional antique restoration company, so as to ensure the greatest historical and therefore potential monetary value is retained. Maybe thats just me though.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on May 11, 2006, 08:00:10 AM
I also have no idea what the tonal difference between a single coil and a humbucker is. :)

Singles vary from each other more than humbuckers do, but generally speaking, they're more bright and crisp (and noisy). Humbuckers offer higher gain and output, produce more sustain, but lack the high end dynamics of a single coil. For clean, non distorted playing, humbuckers are more mellow and lack the chime that a single coil produces. Both are great in their own way though.

More than likely, that Melody Maker you have has P-90 pickups. These are single coils, but they're more compressed, hot, and midrangey than the average Fender design.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on May 11, 2006, 08:43:57 AM
Quote
so as to ensure the greatest historical and therefore potential monetary value is retained.
Fucking capitalists. I agree with you about the professional restoration, but from a player's viewpoint.

I've traditionally played Strat knockoffs, but since I got my Gibson SG, I'm a total convert. Well, probably not total, because my Strat knockoffs were cheap, playing with some quality single coils would probably mitigate that a lot. I am hooked on the 61 reissue's thin wide neck, though. Bendy bendy bendy, big chunky Albert King bends.

Went to a great blues jam last night, hosted by my buddy Jim Wolf (http://www.myspace.com/jimmywolf). He's an amazing guitar player, he started playing a few years before I did, but kept with it professionally all through (and didn't make a major genre switch halfway along, heh). My girlfriend kept kicking me under the table to play, because I was better than a lot of the guys up there, but I'm simply not that comfortable playing blues yet. I don't want to halfass things, and my playing has been progressing well, so it's just a matter of time until things gel.

Now I just have to learn some actual blues songs (opposed to jams) :P I've got much of "All Your Love" (Mayall's version w/EC), "Since I've Been Loving You" (Zep, got that one pretty cold but requires a keyboardist), a decent chunk of "Hideaway" (Freddie King),  "Born Under a Bad Sign" (Albert King), a couple EC tunes off "From the Cradle". I can play pretty much anything with a standard progression without much in the way of tricky signature passages, but of course I enjoy playing songs with those passages to tie together extended jamming to avoid the dreaded jamband syndrome (beating the same three chords to death). I just have a hard time focusing on learning a song without going off constantly :) Luckily, that'll pay off as I learn some tunes, because I love to play around with arrangements and change the way I play songs to keep it interesting.

Best part of the jam last night was when there was an ensemble onstage and this old guy (had to be in his 70s) comes out of nowhere, walking through the crowd, playing trombone. He was really wailing on it, too. Great stuff. If I ever form another band, it'll be goddamned huge, horns, keys, I love varied instrumentation.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on May 11, 2006, 08:55:14 AM
Sounds fun, man.

I haven't made a conscious effort for blues in quite some time, but lately I've been getting better at slide (mainly open E tuning). Tried to learn some Robert Johnson tunes as well, but that ain't happenin'! So I'm learning Keith riffs instead  :lol:.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on May 11, 2006, 10:10:59 AM
Robert Johnson seems a lot more complex than he is, but it's sure not easy. The seperate bass line is killing me, it's the reason I'll never be a drummer. I've been working on acoustic blues a bit lately, but it's slow going and hard to stick with when I'm still at such a beginner level (imo) compared to my skill at other styles.

I'm working some slide, too. Open G stuff "In My Time of Dying" was the first slide tune I learned a couple years ago, now I'm working on some Muddy stuff like "Can't Be Satisfied" (actually the Library of Congress version "I Be's Troubled").

My latest cd binge:

T-Bone Walker - Blues Masters
Sonny Boy Williamson II - King Biscuit Time
Muddy Waters - Folk Singer (with Willie Dixon and Buddy Guy)
Elmore James - King of the Slide Guitar (3cd)
Paul Butterfield - Paul Butterfield Blues Band
Paul Butterfield - East West
Little Walter - His Best (my favorite harp player)
Otis Rush - The Essential Otis Rush
Alan Lomax - Deep River of Song (Alan and his dad among a few others did the Library of Congress field recordings, some great stuff from varied artists, some of the most essential listening you can do for blues imo, the /real/ stuff, non-commercial)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on May 11, 2006, 10:37:45 AM
Robert Johnson seems a lot more complex than he is, but it's sure not easy.

Well, I've got the general idea and can do some of those songs "my" way, I guess.  8-) I know the notes, but it's his attack and sense of rhythm. It's sketchy. It's amazing that he sang the way he did against this stuff.

Plus, combining slide with all of that finger picking isn't doing me any favors. I'm a lefty, but I play righty, so I'm a little slow for this kind of thing (same goes for classical).


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on May 11, 2006, 11:18:59 AM
Yeah, I can't really bring slide into it because I play on my middle finger :( It's just how I learned, originally (up until a couple months ago) I played slide with a bic lighter that I pressed down with my middle finger.

And singing while playing anything is pretty much out for me, still. I'm working on it, and I've been having fun harmonizing...but when the rhythms start to get too independent of each other, sayanora to one of them :)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: penfold on May 11, 2006, 02:18:34 PM
Im still having great fun with my guitars. Been at it since Xmas now, and pick up the guitar daily so looks like its here to stay.

I still havent got a clue about scales, have trouble knowing what key im playing in and can barely remember a chord, but can now getting hang of play some powerchords, play can jam rhythm along with mate, palm mute, pinch harmonics, tune the guitar down, as well as play some nice spanish melody stuff when the chicks are round, and yeh blimey, to think ive missed out on such a good fannymagnet for all these years.....


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on May 11, 2006, 02:31:25 PM
Scales....Well...

I've been playing for about 16 years, and I'm no authority on scales either (though I do know some things intuitively i.e. or as a result of learning riffs and whatnot over the years). My advice is just learn the songs and musicians you've been dying to learn, get at least a rudimentary understanding of rhythm (That's the real bane of new musicians. Not scales), how to recognize chords and keys a song's in, learn riffs and patterns (if not scales), and let it go from there.

There are more musicians (especially guitar players) who don't know a lot about theory than those who do. You're not alone.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Nebu on May 11, 2006, 04:03:03 PM
Having played professionally for years I can honestly admit that while I know how to set up my instrument, I often pay people to do it for me.  They are often more efficient and can sometimes bring new ideas to the table. 

As for the rest, there are many people out there that can play an instrument... very few of them would I consider musicians.  Too many young musicians focus far too much energy on becoming technical gurus and lose sight of the purpose of music. 


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on May 12, 2006, 08:43:46 AM
That's definitely true. There was one young guy at that open mic wednesday that was a decent player, but he kept plugging in these stock riffs rather than play melodies along with the band. It was kind of sad, really. But it was a good point to explain to my girlfriend that that was what I was trying to work out of my playing before I look to form a band. Riffs should be there to support the melodic playing, not just to wank off.

The worst part was he was playing a SRV strat and half of his band's covers used very recognizable SRV licks. It's like "Oh, they're doing the intro to Pride & Joy...no it's an original that is bland and stock beyond the SRV lick." Bah.

Actually, I'm starting to feel pretty comfortable in the blues, when a few more things become automatic, a couple scales (major pentatonic for instance, I always have to think to play in that mode because I've played minor and blues pentatonic for almost twenty years) and some chord variations (working on 7th variations has really enhanced my blues, but now I have to fit them with my scales!). I don't like to think about the technical stuff when I'm playing, I like to be very playful with the melodies and rhythms. Rhythms are really my strong point, I love playing around the beat and doing interesting attacks, a leftover from my metal days.

It's funny learning basically the opposite way I did originally. Back then, I practiced for hours every day with my band, at least two hours a day, often all day long writing sessions. But I rarely had time to practice alone, because it was either playing or partying. Now I never get time to jam with a band to work things out :) There were a couple tracks on the last...Guitar One, I think...guitar mag cd that are nice. They are basically cheesy backing tracks, a C shuffle and Am slow blues (which I totally crush, heh, I kerpwn minor keys).

/ramble


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on May 12, 2006, 02:47:44 PM
Er, the guitar shop is Buffalo Brothers (http://www.buffalobrosguitars.com/) and the repair guy is a banjo specialist who regularly works on vintage instruments. :) Give me some credit...!

Tho, fwiw, finding 100-year old banjos isn't that uncommon. There were several there for sale in the store. It's not like finding a 100 year old guitar.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on May 12, 2006, 03:02:37 PM
Yeah, I've noticed that. Same goes for most folk instruments (dulcimers, etc). A lot of them seem to sell for pretty cheap.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on May 14, 2006, 04:13:30 PM
So yesterday I cleaned and restrung my grandfather's 1950's Harmony ukulele.  It's a baritone, so it's tuned like a guitar's 4 high strings. It came out rather gorgeous looking -- I never expected that underneath the dust. Sounds quite nice.

There doesn't seem to be a way to date these more accurately than by decade. I'm going off the logo styling...


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on May 14, 2006, 06:52:19 PM
I posted a pic of the uke and also a recording. Wow, the tone on that thing, for a uke! Sounds like a classical guitar.

http://www.raphkoster.com/2006/05/14/may/


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on May 14, 2006, 07:35:52 PM
Watch out, Tiny Tim!

Sounds like a cool thing to have around actually.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on May 23, 2006, 11:42:56 PM
When he's not snapping necks, he's just your average, humble "blues man" (http://www.stevenseagal.com/music/index.shtml).


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on May 24, 2006, 08:51:47 AM
Hey, the guitar thread.

I think I'm breaking down and taking lessons for a while. I'm signed up for some basic blues harmonica lessons from a local cat (through our Art&Community Center), and went to see him play the other night. The guy he was with did some great acoustic blues guitar, and he gives lessons (through another Music & Art Center), so I figured wth. I'm also getting to the networking phase where I need to integrate into the local blues scene, this should help a lot because he has a studio as well.

He asked if SRV got me into blues, I chuckled and started listing my listening, I listen mostly to pre-1970 stuff, heavy on the 20s-50s. SRV is cool, but I'm not too interested in sounding like him, more like Big Bill Broonzy style. Should be good times as I finally figure out what chords I'm playing (some of them I can't quite pin down), and re-learn some theory I've forgotten.

Also, something to do on Tuesday night, heh.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on May 24, 2006, 08:54:07 AM
When he's not snapping necks, he's just your average, humble "blues man" (http://www.stevenseagal.com/music/index.shtml).
The sad part is....I've heard worse.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: penfold on May 24, 2006, 10:49:10 AM
I posted a pic of the uke and also a recording. Wow, the tone on that thing, for a uke! Sounds like a classical guitar.

http://www.raphkoster.com/2006/05/14/may/

Looking at getting a baritone ukulele myself, just for a bit of fun.

I was going to link Jake Shimabukuro but your article about him on your website comes up on page 1 of google searches for him, so i guess you know ....

Here's a vid of his thats not the Ukulele Gently Weeps one.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8395698617458049023&q=ukulele


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on May 24, 2006, 05:34:59 PM
When he's not snapping necks, he's just your average, humble "blues man" (http://www.stevenseagal.com/music/index.shtml).
The sad part is....I've heard worse.

Strange article (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/artsentertainment/2003012147_seagal25.html) here.


I gotta admit though. I don't really dislike him. Out for Justice is one of my favorite comedies.


[edit]

What's pretty kickass though is that he owns Jimi's Jazzmaster. That's even cooler than Jimi's white strat imo, since it's the first Fender guitar Hendrix was gigging with.

The only video of it in action, I think (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmRXikp8GAo&search=jimi%20hendrix). Very cool.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: penfold on May 24, 2006, 07:24:27 PM
Strange article (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/artsentertainment/2003012147_seagal25.html) here.

Quote from: Steven Seagal
I'm very quiet about it. I'm kind of reclusive as it is; I never like to blow my horn.

Right after he answers some of the preceeding questions as if he was the soul of jimi hendrix reborn.



Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: penfold on May 25, 2006, 04:09:12 PM
Might as well show off my new guitar. Im a big fan of Lamb of God and for ages I've wondered what guitars Willie uses, Ive always seen the ones with the sunburst many times. I found out exactly what it was on ebay last night;

(http://myspace-716.vo.llnwd.net/00767/61/71/767801716_m.jpg)

Its Willie Adler from Lamb of God's Framus Diablo Custom Shop (http://www.framus.de/modules/frameset/frameset.php) guitar and differs from the others they do as has a fast flame maple neck and wilkinson bridge. It was a bit battered and dirty from the tour it was used on (bloke said was relic finish, but just looks scratched and dinged to me) and willl need new strings and setting up again but I'm pleased.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on May 26, 2006, 08:33:09 AM
That guitar looks nice, but the site doesn't likey Safari :(

Lamb of God is cool, but I'm not big on yelling guys. Love the music, though.

I actually got my non-metal girlfriend into metal watching the VH-1 stuff this past week, because she's never really heard the heavy stuff with a melodic vocalist that doesn't sing in piercing registers. Unfortunately, there really isn't much actual heavy stuff like that, but she was digging Maiden, vintage Priest, etc. I'm a bad influence  :evil:


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on May 26, 2006, 08:54:55 AM
Unfortunately, there really isn't much actual heavy stuff like that, but she was digging Maiden, vintage Priest, etc. I'm a bad influence  :evil:

I hate to admit it, but I just recently discovered the first two Iron Maiden albums. Bruce Dickinson's amazing and all, but I can only take him in small doses. Paul Di'Anno rocks! And the sound of Maiden in that stage was tight. Very "unepic", less spacious, etc.. It's just raw and rockin'. Not at all what I expected.

Best non high pitched vocalist in metal is Glenn Danzig. He's also the best Goth and Punk vocalist as well. :)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on May 26, 2006, 09:39:25 AM
I like all Maiden, up until Bruce quit, really. But the Dianno stuff is really great, so punky, raw and punchy. They are actually the only Maiden albums I own in cd format right now, since my blues buying interrupted backfilling my metal catalogue. Wait, I do have Live After Death.

Rime of the Ancient Mariner helped me pass 9th grade english :)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on May 26, 2006, 10:24:35 AM
Do you know what show this clip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eG37Mol9ms&search=iron%20maiden) is from? That's pretty a good quality and performance for an early vid.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on May 26, 2006, 11:40:54 AM
It might be from the Early Years (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0006B29Z2/qid=1148661464/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-5695724-7348745?s=dvd&v=glance&n=130) DVD. Not sure, I haven't watched it in a while. HIGHLY recommend grabbing it.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on June 12, 2006, 02:39:39 PM
Posted another thing, this one with some electric in it (gasp!).

http://www.raphkoster.com/2006/06/11/the-sunday-poemsong-feel-the-slide/


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on June 12, 2006, 03:04:19 PM
I like the lyrics; it's really not my musical style, but it does grow on me, it's catchy. A coworker (a vintage hippy) liked it. I didn't care for it at first, but by the end of the song I liked it.

Since it's guitar update time: I'm learning to read music. Again.

Took my first lesson last tuesday and it was a real barrier not being able to read music. Spent the last week grinding the very basics of music theory, which I remember enough to know I knew it, but not enough to use it. It's been torture.

But good stuff, in the end. My knowledge expands, my chops expand, and my repertoire expands (+All Your Love - Mayall's Bluesbreakers or Otis Rush). Not sure where these lessons are going, because I'm on track for a few months worth of re-learning basic theory, which I can do alone, I think it's time to needle the guy for some style lessons in early (pre-WWII) delta blues.

Just added the first Taj Mahal album and a Mississippi John Hurt disc to the collection, both strong albums in their styles. I can't believe I didn't have that Taj album, it's great funky blues. And Hurt is a great transfer technically, the stuff sounds like it was just recorded, but it's from 1928. I love that old multiple melody solo acoustic stuff, that's where I want to go in my current phase of playing.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on June 12, 2006, 03:26:09 PM
that's where I want to go in my current phase of playing.

My Personal Update:  Still wishing I was Keith Richards. Electric, acoustic, whatever...


Also, my acoustic sucks.

Actually, it doesn't suck per se. It's just a plain jane Takamine dreadnought is all. I want a Jumbo.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on June 13, 2006, 08:53:37 AM
Mine's a jumbo, an Alvarez. I loved it so much when I just had the Cort electric, but the SG has totally spoiled me. I played an incredible Taylor classical that was marked down to $900 from $1500, I came sooo close to buying it, I really wish I had. I've been hunting a classical for years.

Funny you mention the acoustic, I'm compiling a list of acoustic stuff to burn to give my instructor an idea of where I want to be on the acoustic. Here's the list so far:

Too Too Train Blues - Big Bill Broonzy
Brown Skin Shuffle - Big Bill Broonzy
Mistreatin' Mama Blues - Big Bill Broonzy
Catfish Blues - Buddy Guy & Junior Wells
Bukka's Jitterbug Swing - Bukka White
A Spoonful Blues - Charley Patton
Dimples In Your Jaws - Joe Lee, Boy Blue, Darnel Walker
Crawlin' King Snake - John Lee Hooker
Stagolee - Mississippi John Hurt
Rolling Stone - Muddy Waters
I Be's Troubled - Muddy Waters
Bowlegged Charlie - Otis Taylor
From 4 Until Late - Robert Johnson
Love In Vain - Robert Johnson
Rolled and Tumbled - Rosalie Hill
The Ponly Blues - Son House
Mississippi Blues - William Brown


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on June 13, 2006, 09:34:48 AM
On a scary note, I think I'm developing carpal tunnel in my left hand. Last week, I was waking up with sharp pains in my fingertips, which would carry on and off throughout the day. The past two days though I've been waking up with a sore in my bottom thumb/wrist area.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on June 14, 2006, 07:48:33 PM
Greatest white blues lineup ever (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5H7TEIveNZY&search=rolling%20stones) (and Yoko Ono killing it, just like she did with the Beatles).



Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on June 15, 2006, 08:25:45 AM
I must've missed Mike Bloomfield, Johnny Winter, Ry Cooder, Stevie Ray, Billy Gibbons, Peter Green, and that's just the start of the guitar section :P

Ok, I've never hated Yoko until now. Whoever let her and that violinist on stage needs to be kicked in the nuts, even if it was Lennon's idea. The first jam was nice, though.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on June 15, 2006, 09:58:53 AM
I must've missed Mike Bloomfield, Johnny Winter, Ry Cooder, Stevie Ray, Billy Gibbons, Peter Green, and that's just the start of the guitar section :P

Heh, I was kidding really. But when Keith, Clapton, and Lennon are in the same song, it's hard to think of another link title.

Anyways....Funny thing about Yoko is that Lennon didn't start writing cool, depressing, earthy stuff until he met her. She's a double edged sword, I guess. Another song I can think of like that is Cold Turkey (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtcUEP6goZ0&search=john%20lennon%20cold%20turkey) (too bad that's the dubbed version).


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on June 15, 2006, 01:32:46 PM
Man, I swear, Youtube has everything...

Gatemouth on a Jag (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkJkBorWQTM&mode=suggested&search=ry%20cooder)

More swingin' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szKnP17bR4Y&mode=suggested&search=ry%20cooder). So much style man.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on June 15, 2006, 01:45:03 PM
Heh, you're hurting my productivity, man.

The King (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4xhS3dPTdk&search=albert%20king)

The more of this stuff I watch, the more I think I'm going to cancel my guitar lessons. This instructor played some decent acoustic blues and has really gotten me on the right track for practicing better, but he keeps pushing me into jazz, which I hate. So far every decent instructor I've met is way too into jazz, and argues with me when I say blues shouldn't be tainted by jazz. Country delta blooze forever (with some Chicago spice), bitches!

I just need to practice more, is all. Screw these jazztards.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on June 15, 2006, 01:48:21 PM
Yeah, that one's great. Seen it (and watching it again now).


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on June 15, 2006, 01:51:59 PM
blues shouldn't be tainted by jazz

That Gatemouth vid says otherwise. Though to be fair, that's New Orleans jazz. More sweaty, less smooth :)





Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on June 15, 2006, 03:05:32 PM
I don't care for it.

Matt Murphy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDi9XdDamE8), all vintage-like.
My man Buddy Guy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5VmOPrmviA). Love his vocals and guitar style, very distinctive. Great saxomaphone.
Great video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Grfp3iJ6czg) of T-Bone Walker with Willie Dixon, Memphis Slim and others. Dig those keys!


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Nebu on June 15, 2006, 03:41:42 PM
Matt Murphy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDi9XdDamE8), all vintage-like.

Thank you for that.   :heart:


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Righ on June 15, 2006, 04:03:06 PM
Here's a fun guitarist in a quite different style - Porcupine Tree's Steven Wilson:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxeANJx8uho

And because he was mentioned... Kid Rock (skip ahead 3 mins of crap til Billy Gibbons):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJSi7vbNznA


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on June 19, 2006, 09:17:43 AM
Cancelled my lessons. As I said, screw jazztards. I just want to play blues, maybe some rock.

Just need to practice more, in the non-comfort zone. My hand aches from working on chord forms. I actually considered plastic surgery to slim down my fingertips (they are very wide). Only for a split-second, but the thought was there (damn you A chord form high on the neck!). I always hated physical limitations when I was college, I was at the point on the bass where I was pushing my physical limitations on how fast I could play with my fingers. I really miss the times I had 8 or more hours a day to practice and sit at the top of my game. It just sucks knowing I could be so much better than I am :)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Nebu on June 19, 2006, 10:36:02 AM
I really miss the times I had 8 or more hours a day to practice and sit at the top of my game. It just sucks knowing I could be so much better than I am :)

I know exactly how you feel.  I've been listening to some studio stuff I did about 20 years ago and I can't even play my own licks.  It amazes me how much style and polish you get from just playing out all the time. 

As for the lessons, I think it's a good call.  There are so few instructors out there willing to teach what the student wants to learn that it's often a lost cause.  Use the cash you would have spent on lessons on cds instead.  With your level of self-discipline, you'll do well.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on June 19, 2006, 11:44:21 AM
Quote
With your level of self-discipline, you'll do well.
I lolled. I have almost no self-discipline. That's why I started taking lessons.

I did quickly see several things to work on, chord vocab using the CAGED system was one. Of course, the book he wanted me to work out of was on my amazon wishlist for about two years  (Fretboard Logic, it's a great book and the source of my aching hand the other night), so it's not like it was some groundbreaking idea. Same with the fingerpicking acoustic blues, he was showing me stuff out of a book I already had.

So it's really that I just need to practice more :)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Nebu on June 19, 2006, 11:51:39 AM
I lolled. I have almost no self-discipline. That's why I started taking lessons.

You had me fooled.  You're always talking about playing and trying new things here.  I tend to fall back into old patters and rarely stretch myself musically anymore.  That's where my comment came from.  You seem much more self-disciplined than I do musically. 

My latest stretch has been playing scales.  I've basically gone back to basics and took a look at some commonly used scales and reviewed my pentatonics.  I'm hoping that if I get these things ingrained in my head again, that I'll be able to vamp more around basic keys.  Sadly after about 20-30 mins, I just slam on a few cd's and start playing along.   


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on June 22, 2006, 01:50:52 PM
Just an update. Working with a couple books right now and thought I'd pass them along, as they are excellent.

Fretboard Logic (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0962477060/sr=8-2/qid=1151000799/ref=pd_bbs_2/104-5695724-7348745?%5Fencoding=UTF8) - I mentioned this one above. Nice way to put together the guitar's fretboard mentally. CAGED system, which I pretty much used subconsciously already. But studying it and putting it together with theory is cool. I just never thought about the fact I had been using the C form, and I didn't really use the G form much, but the C, A and D I had been using pretty extensively. The author then uses that simple system to build out chords anywhere on the neck spontaneously and then as a platform to learn scales and arpeggios. Good stuff.

Fretboard Workbook (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0634049011/ref=pd_bxgy_text_b/104-5695724-7348745?%5Fencoding=UTF8) - Similar to the above, by Musician's Institute Press. Same idea, substituting numbers 1-5 for C-D.

Berklee's Guitar Series v1 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0793545110/sr=1-2/qid=1151000954/ref=pd_bbs_2/104-5695724-7348745?%5Fencoding=UTF8&s=books) - The Beast. Guitar exercises, all in notation (I'm a recovering tabtard).

Mostly trying to learn notation and master the fretboard in all positions at this point. Funny how boring yet exciting something can be. Also working some repertoire development, open G slide on "Can't Be Satisfied" (http://allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=50:y9d7yz7jxpmb~T).


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on August 20, 2006, 01:37:49 PM
Posted another track off the CD, an acoustic instrumental piece.

http://www.raphkoster.com/2006/08/20/the-sunday-song-after-the-flood/


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on August 21, 2006, 09:55:21 AM
That was nice. Some of the arpeggios were a bit labored, but I really liked the little slides at the end of phrases.

Speaking of acoustic stuff, I'm very tempted to buy a Baby Taylor after playing one a couple weeks ago. I could've used one out on Monhegan Island last week. I missed out on a classic Taylor that was only $900, really bummed me out. To wrap up gear news, I'm also considering a Pignose amp.

My playing's been a bit stalled lately, but I've been working on a version of Catfish Blues I can actually sing, so it has to be artfully sparse because I can't play and sing at the same time. I throw in a lot of fills and I'm doing one line in unison with the guitar, which actually sounds very Hendrixy. I wish digital hard disk recorder tech would catch up to what I want. Right now it seems everything is mixed onboard at the low end or just a front end for the pc software at the high end. I want something totally integrated, so I can record without the pc on but mix on the pc. Ah, well. Maybe next year.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on August 21, 2006, 02:31:07 PM
I really do enjoy my Baby, though I don't play it hardly at all these days given that it sits at home and my main guitar is equally within reach. I tried a lot of travel guitars, and it was literally the only one with anything resembling a real tone. It also sounds better to the audience than it does to you, I've found.

Why can't you sing and play at the same time? Maybe you need to back up, play some simpler stuff and get the simultaneous singing and playing down a bit better, then work the guitar part complexity back up.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on August 21, 2006, 03:42:09 PM
I dunno, I've chalked it up to coordination difficulties. It's not so much I can't sing and play simultaneously as I can't do differing melodies/rhythms. Thus doing the unison thing with Catfish. I am trying some simple chording, it's no problem at all to strum chords as long as there isn't too much going on under a lyric. But something as simple as a shuffle blues? Not happening. I have a version of Kind Hearted Woman Blues I've been doing, based on George Thorogood's slide version (it's quite nice) with a shuffle inserted in a middle verse ("Ain't but one thing that make Mr. Johnson drink...."). I can do nice slide chording and fills but the shuffle defeats me every time.

It's the exact thing that happens to me on the drums when I can't play a straight high-hat line (like straight 8ths) while syncopating the bass drum. It's like the right hand and foot are connected or something.

Both problems bug the hell out of me.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on August 21, 2006, 05:38:08 PM
Hmm. All I can think of is to try some basic rhythm sightreading exercises.


Title: Re: Useless Videos
Post by: Sky on August 31, 2006, 01:54:11 PM
Is your SG a cherry red (like mine was), or the cooler brownish/maroon? I can't tell.
Heritage Cherry (http://gibson.com/Products%5FEuro/GibsonElectric/Gibson%20Electric%20Guitars/SG%20Specials/SG%20%5F61%20Reissue/) sez Gibson.


Title: Re: Useless Videos
Post by: stray on August 31, 2006, 02:10:49 PM
Is your SG a cherry red (like mine was), or the cooler brownish/maroon? I can't tell.
Heritage Cherry (http://gibson.com/Products%5FEuro/GibsonElectric/Gibson%20Electric%20Guitars/SG%20Specials/SG%20%5F61%20Reissue/) sez Gibson.

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. Much cooler version of cherry than mine was (which I sold). I'd like to get another like yours one day.

Ever seen this? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ID2q35M5gk4)


Title: Re: Useless Videos
Post by: Sky on August 31, 2006, 03:39:58 PM
Keith Moon is one of the best drummer ever. Bonham is my favorite, though. Mitch Mitchell was awesome, too. I tend to really key in on drummers, probably from playing bass for so long.


Title: Re: Useless Videos
Post by: Nebu on August 31, 2006, 04:05:16 PM
I own a dvd of that concert.  Damn I miss the Ox. 


Title: Re: Useless Videos
Post by: stray on August 31, 2006, 04:15:47 PM
You guys are right about Entwistle and Moon, but the real star of the show is Townsend's windmill! It's never looked better.  :-P

Seriously, I love that kind of stuff. What's with SG players (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBcZpN05_lk&search=bon%20scott) anyways? They all seem to have more "show business" savvy than the average git player.


Title: Re: Useless Videos
Post by: Engels on August 31, 2006, 04:18:48 PM
Is your SG a cherry red (like mine was), or the cooler brownish/maroon? I can't tell.
Heritage Cherry (http://gibson.com/Products%5FEuro/GibsonElectric/Gibson%20Electric%20Guitars/SG%20Specials/SG%20%5F61%20Reissue/) sez Gibson.

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. Much cooler version of cherry than mine was (which I sold). I'd like to get another like yours one day.



Are you using Marschall tube amps with that SG? Cuz if you're not, you're not really playing an SG! Sorry, had to add 70s metal guitar freak to my list of strange fetishes


Title: Re: Useless Videos
Post by: stray on August 31, 2006, 04:37:07 PM
I worship at the altar of 70's guitar gods -- But as far as playing goes, that sound is just not me. I've had a couple of Marshalls before, but never really liked them. The amp I have now is a Fender VK, which can do the "Marshall" thing better than other Fender amps, but I use it for other reasons. Anything sounds great through it. It's versatile enough for everyone from the present day Townsend (Marshall poster boy and cabinet destroyer if there ever was one) to completely opposite players like Dick Dale and Chris Isaak to use.

I also have a Vox amp modeler, if that counts. It has Marshall Bluesbreakers, Plexis, and 80's, 90's, and 00 stack models on it. I was dialing them in from time to time when I had a Gibson to muck around with.

Or are you asking Sky? If so, then I'm gonna feel like an ass for saying all of that then. :)


Title: Re: Useless Videos
Post by: Sky on September 01, 2006, 09:17:38 AM
Hmm. My guitar gods are all over the place. Priest, Maiden, Mercyful Fate, Zakk, Dime, Iommi over to Buddy Guy, Muddy, Albert King, Johnny Winter to Jimi, Page, Clapton, Gilmour, etc, etc. I basically like good guitars over interesting music. I'm not picky, though I'm picky in a way, which is not intended to be a pun on picking.

I'm playing a cheap old bass head a guy sold me when I moved back from CA and my guitarist decided to keep my rig. One guy sold me a nice 8x10 Ampeg cab I'm not currently using (and one 10 needs replaced) for $100. Another guy sold me an old Peavey Mark III bass head (crappy model without the graphic eq, but it's serviceable) and a 1x15 (nice Dean Markley cab) loaded with a 400W EV 15", my old favorite speaker from when I played bass. My main rig was a Peavey 2x15 with two of those in it, back in the day. Crunchy. Got the amp head and cab for $100, too.

So I'm running into a Boss GT-6 I bought but don't really know how to use properly, thence into the Peavey bass amp into the 1x15.

The sound in that clip was my default metal lead sound, something with distortion and some echo and verb. I normally use a very dry sound with just a hint of overdrive, I'm tempted to pull the GT-6 out of the loop and just use the amp's gain circuit. I'm a pretty firm believer in pulling good sound out of whatever you're plugged into. I didn't use any effects when I played bass, just an ancient Kustom guitar head (that used to be our singer's amp before we had a PA!) into the 2x15. It's mostly in the fingers and attack. I used to beat the shit out of the bass when I played, last time I played in public a couple years ago I played three songs and my fingers were literally bleeding, it was very gorey (and kinda cool, heh).

That said, I'd love to have a marshall tube stack! I'd have to sell my truck to afford it, though....I've been looking at some combo amps, a couple decent looking fenders, maybe a 4x10 super reverb. Also toying with the idea of grabbing a Pignose amp.


Title: Re: Useless Videos
Post by: stray on September 01, 2006, 10:02:47 AM
I would recommend the Super Reverb. The only Fender combo better than it is the VK, imho. But that's about a $1000 more and doesn't do bright and clean as well as an SR. Have you played your guitar through one already? Since you're a plug and play kind of guy, I'd think you'd be really happy with it for sure. Even with your SG, it might take a lot of volume to push it into hard overdrive, but if you like crunchy-clean, it's perfect.

There's also the Deluxe Reverb. It's more than half the wattage and half the price. It has a similar sound to an SR, but if you want it to saturate at lower volumes (like small club/garage levels), that's what it's good for.


Title: Re: Useless Videos
Post by: Llava on September 01, 2006, 10:35:31 AM
Didn't one of you guys just say earlier in this very thread that you're "no guitar geek"?

How do you defend a statement like that after this discussion?


Title: Re: Useless Videos
Post by: Engels on September 01, 2006, 11:09:30 AM
Stray, I was talking to both of ya. I'm no longer a guitar geek, so most of what you talked about went over my head. However, for arty lines, wicked sounds and a clean flat neck, you just can't get better than an SG. If I were to seriously pick up playing again, I would lust after the SG.

As for amps, I never managed to pony up enough for a marshall tube. You're right that it does tend to be very limited in what sounds it can make, and I did have a Fender Blackwidow amp, which had a lot of built-in toys, including chorus and flange, which were a hoot to play with.

Regrettably, I had to put the guitar down and admit defeat. I just have no musical ear and my sense of rhythm sucks. Badly. I'm the kind of dancer that makes white people think they have a some black in them because at least they aren't as bad as I am.


Title: Re: Useless Videos
Post by: Sky on September 01, 2006, 11:58:47 AM
I know what I wrote /sounds/ guitar geeky, even when we get into some discussion of modes and stuff in the Guitar Thread (which some mod should probably split this into :P). But not really.

A guitar geek knows how to download custom GT6 sounds and hack his GT6. Fuck, a guitar geek would know how to work the stupid thing properly. I have maybe 4 tones I ever use out of 200, and I haven't done any custom tones of my own.

A guitar geek would actually care that he made mistakes in that video or maybe discuss how I overused pentatonics and maybe praise my integration of melodic minors and blues pentatonics or summat. I just play and whatever comes out is what it is :)

Basically, I don't get too hung up in technical stuff, theory or gear. I do enjoy talking about it, though, so I won't deny a bit of geekism in that respect. I'd say 'enthusiast', though ;)


Title: Re: Useless Videos
Post by: WayAbvPar on September 01, 2006, 12:02:52 PM
Quote
(which some mod should probably split this into Tongue). But not really.

Was planning on it. Gotta keep you guitar geeks somewhere I can safely ignore you  :-D


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on September 01, 2006, 12:49:10 PM
I don't know a lot about theory, but I guess I'm a guitar geek. More like a tone freak really. I'm probably better at that than I am playing. I don't wind my own pickups or anything, but I do like to tweak things to an extent. Outside of major modifications, I work on my own stuff. I can be pretty obsessive over less-than-optimal guitar setups, if the pickups are 1 cm too high, or lame amplifier speakers, and fix them accordingly. I can operate a GT6, but I'm more geeky in an analog kind of way. I tend to not like digital stuff.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on September 01, 2006, 01:12:32 PM
I used to be into that stuff when I had a full studio at my disposal. I guess it's a whole shift in my perspective since I got back into playing.

I got real lucky when I bought the SG, the shop's setup guy was there and had just finished setting it up (and several others). He walked me through stuff, watched how I played, he was a great help assisting me. He got a kick out of how I insisted on playing about 40 guitars before I'd plug any in. I had it narrowed to the SG and a nice little strat before I ever plugged them in, because I wanted a sweet fretboard.

I might have to pull out the 8x10 this weekend and see if I can rig it up to play through 2 of them for a practice cab ;)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on September 01, 2006, 01:34:38 PM
Ah, here's another cool SG vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUHz0i8_ziA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUHz0i8_ziA)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on September 01, 2006, 02:28:25 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-twUOi1CM0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjYOXcWz_Uk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkbMd3Bygzs - nice bonus, Geez is playing a Ricky bass. I had a chance to borrow one of those when my old bass got stolen, they're such great bass guitars (though they do lack some frets up top)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Abc2WoORw54 - Not sure what kind of SG Frank is playing


FYI this is NOT me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkNAZcF18NA :) Ouch.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on September 01, 2006, 03:44:09 PM
Cool vids. I was checking out some of those, but couldn't decide what to post.

I wish there were vids of the Wipers. Greg Sage is my favorite SG player by far.

...

Moving away from SG's for a sec, I was looking up examples of cool Jazzmaster players. Too many Sonic Youth and Dinosaur Jr. vids to sift from; I don't have the time. And there was hardly any video footage of Television back in the day.

I found this gem (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHpBOhwXMak) though.

Not sure if that's anybody else's kind of thing, but as far as I'm concerned, that's the shit. That's a perfect Jazzmaster song if there ever was one. Never heard of those guys before (of course, it's a 60's Lounge band from Belgium....So I guess I wouldn't).

[edit]

You mean to tell me there's another guy named "Sky" on Youtube posting faceless vids of himself playing his SG?



Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Llava on September 01, 2006, 04:55:16 PM
Basically, this seems to me like knowing all the events in the Lord of the Rings, having read the Silmarillon, knowing Aragorn's lineage and all the regions of Middle-Earth, but because you only speak a little Sindarin and no Quenya you don't consider yourself a Lord of the Rings geek.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on September 01, 2006, 07:09:03 PM
I think I'm just the type of person who, when he/she likes something, likes it in a totally obsessive way. I have no casual hobbies or interests. I geek out on all of them.

MMO's are one of the things I often wish I could pull away from though. :D


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Llava on September 01, 2006, 10:06:05 PM
I should clarify that I'm not mocking you on this.  I'm certainly a geek on many worse things, and there's no doubt that if you're going to geek out about something, guitar is one of the few that'll get you laid.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Engels on September 08, 2006, 11:38:58 AM
More SG goodness from Seattle's all-women AC/DC cover band. Chose this particular track because its got better sound than most. Its still bootleg quality.

Semi NSFW due to semi-topless guitarist

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rNcOSAE-RM&mode=related&search=



Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on September 08, 2006, 05:35:46 PM
Heh, too bad the singer adopts Johnson's manner and garb instead of Bon Scott's.


Scott makes a funny chick (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VlRUIHwygc) btw.  :-D


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on September 12, 2006, 12:19:22 PM
Funny:

The "better" version of Third Stone. (http://home.earthlink.net/~kthompsen/Third_Stone_from_the%20Sun.mp3)

I finally listened to my entire Hendrix box set and came across that. Is that a well known clip or what? I know it's basically the same track, but I never heard it before.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on September 16, 2006, 11:38:19 PM
Ah, how could I forget this? I ran across this vid awhile back. Very cool.

Sister Rosetta Sharpe and her Pearly Gates SG (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xzr_GBa8qk).


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Righ on September 17, 2006, 12:34:11 AM
Scott makes a funny chick (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VlRUIHwygc) btw.  :-D

If you like that, you should buy the Family Jewels (http://www.cdconnection.com/details/Ac/Dc__Family_Jewels_(2pc)_/_(Rmst_Dig)/1017712) DVD, which is split evenly across two discs between Scott & Johnson periods.

Fuck SGs. '59 Les Paul (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-940116725401968736)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on September 17, 2006, 01:36:21 AM
Oh, I love LP's too. They're pretty heavy, but I'm not complaining (To speak of something totally silly, I've always thought that a Black LP would seal the deal for me as a rock star. Haha. They look perfect on me. Now if I just knew how to sound like a rock star, I'd be set ;) ).

Soundwise, both SG's and LP's aren't totally my thing, but there are times when I wish had one or the other around. Over the years, I've purchased several mahogany/humbucker guitars (Gibson or Gibson like SG's, LP and 335 copies, double cutaways), but I have a bad habit of selling them off. Next time I get one, I plan on keeping it.

....

Jimmy Page seems to look more and more Chinese with age. Is he part Chinese? I wonder now. Not long ago, I found out that the Van Halen brothers AND Zak from Saved By the Bell (yeah, the blonde guy) are part Indonesian. Surprised me.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on September 18, 2006, 11:38:15 AM
I guess you could see it in Alex, he always looked a bit odd.

I'm all about the SG sound, with whatever pickups are in my 61 reiss. One of the first guitars I tried when I was shopping was a Black Beauty LP, but it was like trying to fret a baseball bat. Which was cool by me since it was also $4k. The thin, wide neck of the 61 SG is just too sweet for bending imo.

Just got back from vacation playing just my Alvarez acoustic/electric and my fingers are just recovering. Shredded them and then built up monster callus. It was great for building strength for bends and chords, especially since I'm trying to work on the CAGED system I've mentioned, which seems to be very cool.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Nebu on September 18, 2006, 01:46:51 PM
I remember playing a Gibson Explorer and an ES 325 when I was working in the 80's.  Neither belonged to me, but I really enjoyed their sound and how well they played.  I've never spent much time on an SG, is the neck much different than the Explorer? I remember both of them being more comfortable to my bass-player hands than the Telecaster I owned. 


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: penfold on September 18, 2006, 02:54:01 PM
I need to learn that CAGED system, i bought the book recommended further up the thread but havent really had any decent time with it yet. My latest guitar is finally back in action after i broke the output jack some time ago. I bought a replacement and soldering iron today and got it working and am pleased i bothered to do myself instead of taking it in.

I have problems with its tuning tho, its loses tune within seconds when im tuning, and i re-do over and over for 5 mins or so  and then it keeps it for a few sessions. Its a wilkinson trem, not a locking nut/floyd rose setup. I suspect i have too much string wrapped around the tuners, would that do it ? I think the innotation is ok. It's also used (toured with even) and is a bit battered.

 


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Righ on September 18, 2006, 02:57:02 PM
Jimmy Page seems to look more and more Chinese with age. Is he part Chinese? I wonder now. Not long ago, I found out that the Van Halen brothers AND Zak from Saved By the Bell (yeah, the blonde guy) are part Indonesian. Surprised me.

There are rumours that he has some Chinese blood, though they're unsubstantiated as far as I know. I suspect its more likely that the majick rituals haven't been doing their job and he's had to resort to a little nip/tuck. :P


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on September 18, 2006, 03:25:50 PM
I remember playing a Gibson Explorer and an ES 325 when I was working in the 80's.  Neither belonged to me, but I really enjoyed their sound and how well they played.  I've never spent much time on an SG, is the neck much different than the Explorer? I remember both of them being more comfortable to my bass-player hands than the Telecaster I owned. 


Most Gibson necks fall under the same category. The original Gibson design was borrowed from acoustic guitars (fat neck profile, 12" radius, etc.).

The SG, however, has a slim tapered neck (more akin to Fender), but retains the 12" radius (Fenders usually have a 7-9" radius). It's kind of a cross between the Fender and LP feel. This only goes for 60's reissues though (as well as Angus and Iommi models, which are based on the 60's design). Modern SG's feel more like Les Pauls and have fatter necks (though they are much lighter).

Anyways, to answer your question: A modern SG will feel more like that Explorer or 325 you played, but a 61 reissue, like Sky has, won't.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Nebu on September 18, 2006, 06:14:23 PM
Anyways, to answer your question: A modern SG will feel more like that Explorer or 325 you played, but a 61 reissue, like Sky has, won't.

Thanks!

Now the 2h drive to Denver to give it a whirl.  I've set aside money for a new 6 string, I just haven't found anything that screamed "BUY ME" yet.  I played a Schecter and a Les Paul studio, but I rather prefered my old G&L.  Maybe I should just buy a strat from the late 70s or early 80s.  A good compromise were the early Ibanez guitars.  Very similar feel for a fraction of the price.  The hard part is finding an early 80's Ibanez that wasn't beat to shreds as a backup. 

The only guitar that has really tempted me in the last 6 months was a 1978 Rickenbacker bass... I played one through the 80's (like everyone else) and miss the tone.  I like the feel of my Jazz, but I miss that Rick-o-sound.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on September 18, 2006, 07:23:56 PM
I wouldn't recommend 70's or 80's Strats really.  :-) Your G&L is more than likely much, much better. Same goes for Ernie Ball: Whereever Leo went, the guitars were better Fenders than Fender's (Standout Fenders from the 70's were the Tele Deluxes, Tele Customs, and the Basses though. Not the Strats. Standout Fenders from the 80's were the Japanese ones, both for price and that they didn't try to change the original designs too much, as the Americans did).

[edit]

I must say though, unless you're set on getting a vintage Strat, you're much better off with a new one. Especially the '62 reissue. They're awesome guitars. No Strat from the 70's is going to match it in quality. Besides actually having a real 62 Strat (which I think will run about 30 or 40 thousand dollars these days), it's as good as a Strat can be.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Nebu on September 19, 2006, 02:45:38 AM
Thanks Stray.  Excellent advice as always!


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on September 19, 2006, 08:37:48 AM
I'd love a Ricky bass, too. At this point I'd consider trading up my ESP Custom bass for one, since I don't think I need more than one bass in my lineup. I would like a nice standup, but those are a bit pricey for a secondary instrument (these days). I'm still toying with the idea of a Baby Taylor, but I can't get over the decision-hump on it. I don't really need another steel-string acoustic, but it would be nice to have in the office...

At this point I'm balancing urges for an iPod 80GB, a hard disk recorder unit, and building a new pc next februaryish (which will cost a bundle). I'd like to get the recorder this winter if I can swing it, but as I've mentioned before the market is kinda odd. Doesn't seem to be a unit to do exactly what I'd like, fully functioning unit that can also bounce individual tracks to the pc for the mixing stage. They seem to either be pc interfaces (I don't want to have to boot my pc every time I want to jot an idea down) or only able to burn to cd or bounce a fully mixed stereo track over. Also on the wishlist is a drum machine for scratch tracks (I can play drums enough to lay the final) and a nice vintage wooden metronome (which I've found aren't cheap).

I did splurge and get a little pignose with some leftover vacation fundage ;) Hope to have it in by the weekend.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Righ on September 20, 2006, 09:01:03 PM
Just get a portable flash recorder like an Edirol R-09 or M-Audio MicroTrack 24/96 and use that instead of an iPod.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on September 22, 2006, 10:30:58 AM
Those are cool but still don't quite fit the bill. I need a couple more tracks and better monitoring, as well as bouncing. For instance, if I have a bass track, a guitar track, a scratch drum machine track and I'm laying down the drums on another track. I'd love to have a flash recorder for jotting down ideas, but that'd have to come after a more fully-featured recorder.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: MisterNoisy on September 22, 2006, 10:49:36 AM
Those are cool but still don't quite fit the bill. I need a couple more tracks and better monitoring, as well as bouncing. For instance, if I have a bass track, a guitar track, a scratch drum machine track and I'm laying down the drums on another track. I'd love to have a flash recorder for jotting down ideas, but that'd have to come after a more fully-featured recorder.

What about something like this (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Korg-D4-4Track-Digital-Recording-Studio?sku=242060) or this (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Fostex-MR8HD-8Track-Digital-Recorder-with-40GB-Hard-Drive?sku=240341)?


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on September 22, 2006, 11:20:28 AM
Yeah, I'm familiar with all the current hard disk recorders out there right now, I think. They're all just a bit lacking, and that's a lot of dough (imo) to drop on something that doesn't quite do what I want. I keep holding out hoping someone makes what I'm looking for, but I'm not sure it'll happen. It's academic right now anyway, truck is in the shop and I'm broke :)

Ideally, it'd be a fully-functioning recording unit (we used to have a tascam 8 channel for demos, but we also had a studio setup with a 24 channel board we fed into it, so I'm a little picky on features) that could be mounted as a hard drive on the pc/mac to be worked from in the full featured recording package (pro tools, eventually), importing individual tracks discreetly. There are some decent units way up high, but that's more than I want to spend on an intermidiate unit, it's in the price range of the Digi002 I hope to buy when I put the studio in my house (that I haven't found yet, heh).

I'll probably end up buying the Fostex at some point, though. Seems to be the only choice for a low-end unit, really.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on October 03, 2006, 10:14:28 AM
Been playing around with the pignose amp for a while now. Great little amp, has a nice tone to it and really shines when I hook up the Boss GT-6. I've been playing long enough to have messed aroung with the onboard tone and volume settings on my guitars, but the pignose really puts that out front, because it doesn't have much, just the one volume knob. I can set it pretty loud and a little distorted and with the onboard controls shape the sound from fingerpicking rhythm to lead tones.

Hooking up the effects unit makes it a perfect practice amp, actually a bit loud (according to my girlfriend). Oddly, I could play quieter on my amp + 15" cab. *shrug*

The only downside is a noticeable hum, especially at low volume. Trying to isolate it, at first I had thought it was the flourescent bulbs I've been using, but it's not.

Anyway, for $75 or so, can't go wrong. Can't wait to try it with batteries, it has little bolts for a guitar strap, too. I've got an old Pantera video with Dimebag out on the street using this amp to play blues and beg for money.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Miguel on October 06, 2006, 04:41:54 PM
I know you said you didn't want to boot up a PC in order to lay down ideas, but for now if you want to do more than 4 tracks without bouncing it really is the best way to go.

You can get a copy of Sonar bundled with a Firewire audio interface for right around the $550 level.  It's totally worth the money.  You can record two mics and four line sources simultaneously (which I have found to be more than enough for most projects), and you can even connect it to a laptop for quick takes when out somewhere.  You can put hundreds of tracks in (provided you have the CPU horsepower) along with some really nice effects package (like Sonitus).

I just haven't found an all inclusive unit that offers the same amount of editing and tracking flexibility for a comparable cost.  I was using the Boss (e.g. Roland) unit and although it is nice and portable, you'll go out of your mind trying to fix mixes after you have bounced a few times.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Righ on October 13, 2006, 11:09:05 PM
Gear envy time again. Saw Porcupine Tree last week. As well as incorporating gorgeous Les Pauls into their arsenal for the first time, they also used these new Babicz Octanes. They sure do sound and look nice:

(http://www.studiomlive.com/artists/porcupinetree1006/images/_DSC9730.jpg)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on October 14, 2006, 04:49:01 AM
Those are nice. Even the introductory model is nice (The Spider (http://www.babiczguitars.com/spider.shtml)). Only in the $600 range too. I want one.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: penfold on October 23, 2006, 05:36:53 PM
I traded in my Yamaha Strat and got myself a Pod XT Live. I was actually after the XT but the Live has come down in price and with the trade in worked out very cheap.  I've not bought any proper kit like this before, it even came with a ringbinder manual, which really appealed to the inner geek in me.

It's already changed so much, just having access to so many (128 presets you can programme or download to) tones and fx at the press of a pedal opens up so many more possibilities. Best still, i can just use it with headphones, as i'm in a small flat with thin walls..... according to the neighbours, heh. I've been playing with some user created sounds from customtone.com (http://www.customtone.com). various tones that sound like pantera, slayer, metalica etc. Mainly using a Burzum one tonight, but I won't be burning any churches down any time soon.

The next step is using it and the Line 6 software to interface with some means to record, and play over backing tracks, and I really must structure my learning on the guitar. I've more or less been playing for fun but now im at the stage I can hear stuff in my head that i just can't play.


 


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on October 23, 2006, 10:02:59 PM
Took me awhile to play the stuff I was hearing in my head (and frankly, I still can't do it well after over 15 years of playing. Most of the songs I make up are just snippets of what I heard in my head --- I flesh the rest out with whatever my fingers want to do). So....Just have fun, like you're doing.

Pods are cool. Grats on the purchase. I used to have one, but I've since purchased a Vox/Valvetronix amp. Same principle, but it has better Vox and Marshall models than the Pod (Pod does other brands better.....Plus, it has custom cabinet configuration....While the Vox doesn't).


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: NiX on October 23, 2006, 10:49:10 PM
Just picked up one of these (http://www.seagullguitars.com/products6+cedargt.htm) from my buddies brother for a decent price. Just wondering if you guys knew of any good resources for learning? I was learning to play and then my old acoustic fell to shit. It was something someone dumped on me. Esteban quality kinda guitar. Finally got around to picking up a new one and lost all my resources for learning acoustic.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on October 24, 2006, 01:24:15 AM
Lol, Esteban.

If possible, the best thing you can do is find an experienced guitar player (even someone who has played for a year or two) to strum songs with. Nothing beats learning that way.

If you're completely on your own, then learn the basic chords (if you haven't already) and get some kind of songbook. Learn through songs. The most important lessons are understanding the different sounds chords make (your ear), getting physically comfortable shaping those chords (your left hand), and getting a sense of rhythm (your right hand). Songs will help you with all three.

Stay away from bland/esoteric theory for the moment. Without an understand of songs, that shit is a vacuum.

I'll leave it up you about which songs to learn, but I'd suggest oldies. They lend themselves better to learning on an acoustic. Songs like Bad Moon Rising by CCR, No Reply by the Beatles, Knockin' On Heaven's Door by Bob Dylan. Beautifully simplistic songs.

If you had an electric, I'd just tell you to learn Iron Man and the Ramones' Commando. You'd be well on your way to rock stardom from there.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on October 24, 2006, 09:02:29 AM
Esteban was the only flamenco instruction I could find in a store :| Looking at his picture and the packaging, I passed on it and went online and found some decent rasgeudo (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0786649224/ref=pd_cp_b_title/102-8653668-0511355?ie=UTF8) (sp) instruction books to slap on ye olde wishe liste. I'd like to flesh out my flamenco a bit because I'm pretty decent at the couple of things I've conjured from my anus, some celtic guys I jammed with a couple months ago were calling me the flamenco guy. Of course, I'm no Esteban or even a Charo (she rocks on guitar).

I'm completely inept as a teacher, though. I learned by smoking copious amounts of pot, drinking Yukon Jack, and jamming with friends who were also trying to learn. We sucked for at least a year or two, but it sure was fun.

I guess maybe one of the Travis picking books (http://www.amazon.com/Art-Contemporary-Travis-Picking-Fingerpicking/dp/0936799005/sr=8-1/qid=1161698292/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-8653668-0511355?ie=UTF8&s=books) would be a good place to start with an acoustic. Fretboard Logic (http://www.amazon.com/Fretboard-Logic-Reasoning-Arpeggios-Complete/dp/0962477060/ref=pd_bxgy_d_text_b/102-8653668-0511355?ie=UTF8) is a great book to wrap your head around the fingerboard, I'm working through that one now. Wish I'd had it when I was starting out. This general book (http://www.amazon.com/Play-Acoustic-Complete-Mastering-Guitar/dp/0879308532/sr=8-1/qid=1161698667/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-8653668-0511355?ie=UTF8&s=books[/url) has some nice ideas, but it's a bit light. There's a few pages on different genres, bluegrass, celtic, blues, rock, folk, etc, but the first half of the book is prose about acoustic guitarists so it's not all instruction.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on October 24, 2006, 07:28:26 PM
Ack, don't start with Travis picking. Start with plain old chords. D, C, G, E, A, Em, Dm, Am. Then when you hit the "hard ones" like Bb, F, and B7, you'll feel  like a god. :) And you can stack Travis-style on top of this basic knowledge.

I learned off of songbooks for old folk songs and for singer-songwriters. Pick the music you like, though, you want songs you know in your bones so that you can hear what you're shooting for.

BTW, any acoustic guitarist should grab "Rise Up Singing" (the spiral-bound one, of course) -- yeah, it's got a ton of shit you don't want. But it's also guaranteed to have dozens you do want to learn, plus dozens more you've at least heard. And it's portable, and you'll be armed for playing when someone asks you to play something, because it does have something for damn ner everyone. Just ignore the hippie vibe. :) http://www.amazon.com/Rise-Up-Singing-Songbook-Anniversary/dp/1881322122/ref=ed_oe_o/102-9784383-0470531?ie=UTF8



Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on October 24, 2006, 07:49:35 PM
Hell, I can barely do Travis picking very well after the length that I've been playing.

I blame it on being a lefty who learned on a righty though ;). In some cases, this can be a benefit. In others, it can be a real problem.

Either way, it's a bit advanced. I agree.

Just get basic chords and rhythms down. Your only goal right now should be getting used to fingering chords/pressing down on frets, getting every string to ring clearly throughout a chord, transitioning between chords clearly, and not sounding so sketchy when you strum.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Llava on October 24, 2006, 10:31:40 PM
Another of my cousin's pieces:
http://travisaustin.bluedomino.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/downtherabbithole.mp3

Again, heavily Satriani/Vai inspired, so you ain't gonna like it if you don't like them.  Not my style personally, but some people here might enjoy it.

(It's all him, no other people.)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on October 24, 2006, 10:53:51 PM
Not my thing either, but I thought it was pretty cool. I think he'd sound 10 times more impressive ripping it up within a more raw/rockin' song.

Then again, the same would go for Steve Vai and Satriani as well.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Llava on October 25, 2006, 12:49:09 AM
Made me think of it because his name is Travis.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: NiX on October 25, 2006, 01:17:13 AM
I found some instructional videos online that's teaching notes. Figured it would be a better start than just learning off tabs. Right now I'm learning to play Ode To Joy. YAY!


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on October 26, 2006, 09:13:09 AM
If you want to learn theory 'the right way', I suggest Berklee's stuff, starting with this one:

http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Method-Guitar/dp/0793545110/

I'll see Raph's oddball collection and raise you a cowboy campfire songbook:

http://www.amazon.com/Cowboy-Campfire-Songs-Tab-Guitar/dp/1569221464/

It's got some popular stuff like Clementine. I like the grim tone of the lyrics in songs like Bury Me Not On The Lone Prairie.
Quote
Ack, don't start with Travis picking.
I dunno, I did mention I'm not good with teaching :P Unless my suggestion to find a few mates, get piss drunk and have at some music is good teaching...


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Damn Dirty Ape on October 26, 2006, 04:31:40 PM
This is a cool thread.

I did mention I'm not good with teaching :P Unless my suggestion to find a few mates, get piss drunk and have at some music is good teaching...

That's the way I learned my first few chords.  My step-father and his brothers would cook fish in a cauldron, get all liquored up, and play bluegrass on Saturday night.  Of course, I was too young at the time to drink but it's the thought that counts.

I'm still pretty much a n00b on guitar.  I play sporadically but I love it and enjoy instruments themselves as works of art.  Currently, I've got a Rickenbacker 4003 bass, a Geddy Lee signature Fender Jazz bass, and a 60th anniversary Fender Strat that I just picked up a couple of months ago.  The Ric is in bad need of repairs with a stripped-thread volume knob and bridge screw.   I could probably replace the volume knob myself but I'd like to get someone with experience to work on the bridge, perhaps replacing it with a Bad Ass.

Here's a video from Dead Meadow, a band I'm currently digging mightily at the moment:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2SnG7iE4c4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2SnG7iE4c4)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on October 26, 2006, 04:48:57 PM
Heh. For a second there, I thought you said you were gigging with Dead Meadow (as in, you were in Dead Meadow).  :-D

But yeah, cool band.

...

Those are cool instruments for a "n00b". What year is that Ric? Is it old and beat up, or just fairly new and in need of repairs?


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Damn Dirty Ape on October 26, 2006, 05:07:06 PM
Heh. For a second there, I thought you said you were gigging with Dead Meadow (as in, you were in Dead Meadow).  :-D

I wish.  Given their sound, I imagine they tour in their Mystery Machine, solving groovy mysteries along the way.

Quote
Those are cool instruments for a "n00b". What year is that Ric? Is it old and beat up, or just fairly new and in need of repairs?

It's an '85 model.  I bought it used back in '95 from an evangelist who was hesitant to sell it to a long-haired hippie type but I won him over in the end.  It played without a single problem up until about two years ago, and that's when I decided to pack it up and get the Jazz bass.  I prefer the bottom end sound of the Jazz over the Ric, but no other bass cuts through mid and high ranges like a Ric can.  I'm a big sucker for that Chris Squire/Geddy Lee type sound.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: MisterNoisy on October 26, 2006, 05:20:58 PM
This is a cool thread.

I did mention I'm not good with teaching :P Unless my suggestion to find a few mates, get piss drunk and have at some music is good teaching...

That's the way I learned my first few chords.  My step-father and his brothers would cook fish in a cauldron, get all liquored up, and play bluegrass on Saturday night.  Of course, I was too young at the time to drink but it's the thought that counts.

I'm still pretty much a n00b on guitar.  I play sporadically but I love it and enjoy instruments themselves as works of art.  Currently, I've got a Rickenbacker 4003 bass, a Geddy Lee signature Fender Jazz bass, and a 60th anniversary Fender Strat that I just picked up a couple of months ago.  The Ric is in bad need of repairs with a stripped-thread volume knob and bridge screw.   I could probably replace the volume knob myself but I'd like to get someone with experience to work on the bridge, perhaps replacing it with a Bad Ass.

Here's a video from Dead Meadow, a band I'm currently digging mightily at the moment:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2SnG7iE4c4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2SnG7iE4c4)

Nice axes (particularly the Ric - love those things, but they're too pricey for me), and many thanks for the YouTube link/band recommendation - good stuff.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: penfold on October 27, 2006, 08:11:34 PM
Just discovered this online jam app tonight, thought was worth a mention.

http://www.ninjam.com/

Just had a long jam with a friend, and it worked well. Had it set up in minutes, I ran the server and my own client, and just used pod via usb and set ninjam's input and output to asio and it was ready to go.

Anyone else tried this type of thing? This was near the top of a google search, but noticed some others too.





Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on October 28, 2006, 01:50:53 AM
There used to be something called the Rocket(?) Network. Something like that. You could jam, but it was mainly used for collaborating. It was bundled with a stripped down version of Logic (when Logic was owned by Logic, and not by Apple).

This is pretty cool though.

I'm still strapped for mics, but I might have something crappy lying around for input. I'd love to jam with you guys.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: climbjtree on November 19, 2006, 12:45:55 AM
Alrighty, so I just bought myself a Spencer acoustic. Nothing fancy.

I also don't know how to play guitar. I can play the piano, so I figured I could pick up the guitar no-problem. Turns out my music reading skill has atrophed mightily, so I've turned to tabs. I've fooled around with them a bit, but my biggest problem is moving my uncoordinated left hand around the neck in to hit the next chord in time. Do you experienced guitar players have any tips for easy tabs of recognizable songs for an acoustic guitar?

I listen to mostly classic rock, so those are really the songs I know best. Furthermore, my not-so-distant goal is to be able to play "Kiss Me" by Sixpence None the Richer for my wife. She loves that song. I do alright until I hit the chords that look similar to this on a tablature:

0            3
1            3
2            4
3            5
-            5
1            3

Could anyone help me out with the fingering of those?


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on November 19, 2006, 07:14:41 AM
Them be barre chords...

A little hard to form for a newbie, but it's merely a physical thing. Takes practice is all I can say. Your index finger needs to lie flat, straight down on the fretboard:

(http://www.electric-guitar.co.uk/Images/Lessons/Barre_Chords/gminphoto.jpg)

That's a picture of a G barre chord (edit: wait, he's lifting up his middle finger, so in actuality it's a G minor....same basic concept though):

3
3
4
5
5
3

====================

Here's another way to break it down:

3 -- Index finger, 1st string, 3rd fret
3 -- Index finger, 2nd string, 3rd fret
4 -- Middle finger, 3rd string, 4th fret
5 -- Pinky finger, 4th string, 5th fret
5 -- Ring finger, 5th string, 5th fret
3 -- Index finger, 6th string, 3rd fret


Note, "6th string" means the big, bass string, and "1st string" means the thinnest string. Standard numbering conventions count from bottom to top, high notes to low.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Big Gulp on November 19, 2006, 08:22:55 AM
Suck on it, Muddy Waters! (http://www.desktopblues.lichtlabor.ch/)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: climbjtree on November 19, 2006, 02:17:19 PM
Hey Stray, thanks for the help - that picture was extra useful. I will point out that I'm not so much of a newb that I don't know which strings are which :)

I'm having a lot of fun learning how to play the guitar. I already know how to read music, so thats bonus, but I am not familiar with the chords and such so I can't read fast enough to play at speed. That's why tabs are a godsend.

Thanks again Stray.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on November 19, 2006, 02:38:18 PM
No prob.

Heh, when I said newb, I was only referring to the "dexterous" aspect of guitar playing. ;)

Since you have experience with pianos, you more than halfway there, as far as music making goes.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: climbjtree on November 19, 2006, 07:16:37 PM
Another question for you Stray:

I've had more luck with fingerpicking style than chord songs so far. For instance, Classical Gas is something I would think that I'd never be able to play. I was bored, though, and found a tab and after a hour or so of practice I can play through the intro and into some of the first verse. Maybe I should learn more about that style of playing? Know of any good online references for that kind of stuff? Also, I'd really like to learn a bit about the blues style so that I can sit and do a lot of improv, but I've yet to find a site for that stuff with good info.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on November 19, 2006, 08:05:19 PM
I'm a pretty shitty fingerstyle player, so I'm the last to ask there. I can get by alright, but I'm a lefty who learned righty -- my picking/right hand technique is lacking.

Whether you like fingerstyling or not though, you'll still have to learn chords. It's fundamental. Even with fingerstyling, you're still forming chord shapes with your left hand.

As for Blues...Hmm, I don't know any online sources really. There's a nice little book though called "101 Must Know Blues Licks" (http://www.amazon.com/Must-Know-Blues-Licks-Wolf-Marshall/dp/0793595878/sr=8-1/qid=1163988372/ref=sr_1_1/002-6183995-7351264?ie=UTF8&s=books) that charts riffs and lines from pre-war Charlie Christian/Robert Johnson type blues to Delta style to Memphis to early British rock. It's cheap, helpful, and comes with a CD as well. It's a good way to learn blues lead concepts (through riffs, instead of indirectly through pentatonic theory).

Some groundwork needs to be laid though -- mainly physical stuff. You need to get comfortable bending strings, learning how to do hammer ons and slides smoothly. That sort of thing.

All that being said, the first thing you should do is just learn basic rock songs you like. You mentioned Classic Rock earlier -- Can you give a specific example? Sabbath? Zep? Neil Young? The Beatles? Punk?


Either way, many rock rhythms can be played or imitated with power chords (especially hard rock, metal, and punk). Power chords are just basic 2 or 3 string chords.

Like that G barre chord above would just be this in power chord form:

5
5
3




Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: climbjtree on November 19, 2006, 08:51:40 PM
Again, thanks for the help Stray.

Songs I've been working on, from most interested to least:

Kiss Me by Sixpence None the Richer
Classical Gas - Eric Clapton version and only because I seem to have good luck with it.
Canon in D - Pachelbel and because it's the individual string picking style
Give Me One Reason - Tracey Chapman and because it's good and bluesish.
House of the Rising Sun - Animals and again bluesey.
Horse With No Name - Neil Diamond and because I can play it with two chords only.

As far as classic rock goes, it's typically stuff like Clapton, Cream, The Who, The JHE - that type of music.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on November 19, 2006, 09:07:58 PM
Some Clapton and Who is easy, some really complex.

White Room and Sunshine are easy. My Generation and I Can't Explain are easy. -- Do a Google tab search for those.

Layla isn't easy. Love Ain't for Keeping isn't easy.

House of the Rising Sun -- Definitely a 'rite of passage' type of song:

Am, C, D, F, Am, C, E, E

Am, C, D, F, Am, E, Am, E


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: climbjtree on November 19, 2006, 09:37:46 PM
Hey Stray, have you got AIM or something? It would make these conversations easier.

Either way, my biggest problem is fighting my rampant ADD. If I sit and concentrate on one thing for a while I will certainly improve. However, I flop between too many songs and never get anywhere. Actually, that's my downfall in MMO's too.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on November 19, 2006, 09:44:03 PM
Don't have an IM atm.

As for the ADD:

You need to learn a song you really, really like  8-). That way you'll enthrall yourself to learning it, and stay enthusiastic each time it sounds more and more like the real thing.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on November 20, 2006, 09:35:05 AM
I'm the king of song ADD, you'll never beat me because I have such a long headstart.

I jammed with a couple folks on some acoustics last week. They were folkies, and looked at me to pick a song. I just kinda shrugged and had to admit I really don't know any front to back. I can cobble a few together (I did Old Man by Young and Wish You Were Here by Floyd...because they were folkies). But I sit in like a mofo, they did Scarborough Fair and I tried to pick out the melody with some success but played some great minor leads and fills. Basically, if I can play a minor lead, I'm jamming, if not, I'm struggling :)

I also found I really need to work on my rhythms, I tend to wander into leads. The folkies laid down a decent 12 bar for me to play over, and then I basically forced the guy to do a solo (they were both very tentative players, which was too bad because they're both solid). I had a real hard time staying focused on rhythm playing.

My Fostex MR8HD comes in today. I'm hoping that will help me focus on song structure again, it's the skill that seems to be eluding me the most, as I don't really jam with others much.

Climbjtree: check out the entire thread, there's a few fingerpicking suggestions. I have one book that I keep ignoring, beginning blues fingerpicking or something. Alternate bass thumb independent of melody fingers makes hulk smash.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on November 20, 2006, 09:39:58 AM
Suck on it, Muddy Waters! (http://www.desktopblues.lichtlabor.ch/)
That sounds a lot like where I am on acoustic blues right now. I have a pretty aggressive style, especially when I fingerpick it, I have a tendency to pop the strings. Holdover from playing the bass for so many years, I had a super loud aggressive style on the bass. I dislike namby-pamby guys who barely brush the strings :) You gots to rough her up to get her to scream, babies.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Damn Dirty Ape on November 20, 2006, 05:43:03 PM
Holy shit!

Someone on youtube has posted video of Rush performing "2112", "Anthem", and "Bastille Day" live from 1976.  I've collected bootleg audio/video for Rush for many years now and this is the first time I've even heard of, much less seen, live footage from this era.

2112 (part 1):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jm08ZO9fZqw&mode=related&search= (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jm08ZO9fZqw&mode=related&search=)

2112 (part 2):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_QJMYIRvRA&mode=related&search= (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_QJMYIRvRA&mode=related&search=)

Anthem:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15GXZ8lvLBg&mode=related&search= (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15GXZ8lvLBg&mode=related&search=)

Bastille Day:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCt4orYLBJA&mode=related&search= (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCt4orYLBJA&mode=related&search=)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on November 20, 2006, 07:28:48 PM
Climbjtree, you don't need to do that G barre if you don't want to. You can play the open G and get by, at least until you feel comfy with barre chords.

In fact, newbies often learn a "cheap G" where they play xx0003. (finger the open G chord shape but don't try for the bass strings).

For blues suitable for beginners, I suggest Pride and Joy by SRV. Ignore the fills, just try to master the basic chords first, then layer in the bass line.

If you want advice on fingerpicking, I can probably help out where Sky can't. :)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on November 21, 2006, 10:27:39 AM
Arg, I wouldn't recommend Pride & Joy. For me, at least, the strum is very tough. The walking bass I can pull off, but the high strings backstrum is so damned awkward. Maybe something like Mannish Boy, bada bada bump! All E without chord changes. And also Hootchie Cootchie Man, a solid 12 bar (though Muddy was very loose with the format, more like a 10-15 bar, heh).

Blues basics are easy. 12 bar I-IV-V, most blues follow this format, often with 7th chords for the IV and V. Once you get the basic chording down, work on a shuffle which is the 02xxxx-04xxxx repetition (IV = x02xxx-x04xxx, V = x24xxx-x26xxx, etc). Then get into turnarounds to glue it together. Solo with a minor pentatonic (1, m3, 4, 5, d7, 8; in E: e, g, a, b, d, e). That's basically the blues, with about a gajillion things you can do within the framework. The best thing to do is listen to some Muddy Waters and play along, imo. And remember: you can never play the blues too slow (Muddy's phrase, not mine :)).

My open G always defaults to 320033, it's hard for me to do a standard open G. Sucks because it makes open G7s tougher for me. Ah well, I'm a horrid mishmash of styles and learning :)

First comments on the Fostex MR8HD unit: It's pretty slick. Metal unit, sliders are a bit cheesy, but it's a relatively low-end unit. It lists for $400, I paid $350 at musician's friend. 40GB hard drive in it. Display is very tiny, the unit is a bit loud due to the hd spin. Forgot to buy a punch-in switch and headphones :P Going to spend a few days learning the interface and then try to get something up for you guys to hear. Can't wait to start recording some of my truly stupid ideas, like my blues version of Jay Z's '99 Problems'.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Nebu on November 24, 2006, 02:35:52 PM
Arpeggios from Hell (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiYwOfaPf5I&mode=related&search=)

Interesting to see all the modes Yngwie goes through.  My only complaint is that it would have been more interesting to hear clean. 


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on November 24, 2006, 04:06:47 PM
He has great technique but I get bored pretty fast with that stuff. Especially the rhythm section, no groove at all. It's the 'hey look at me' show, blah. I wasn't a big fan of shred even back in the day when I could do some shred. Now shred is 'in' again. I'd rather listen to someone creative like the cat playing with Mars Volta, or more traditional stuff like Warren Haynes or Derek Trucks.

Shred? Bah. Maybe I'll be happier about it if the new shred trend gets rid of cookie monster vocals.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Nebu on November 24, 2006, 04:51:03 PM
He has great technique but I get bored pretty fast with that stuff.

I agree completely.  I was more interested in the modes and neck usage.  The guy obviously has a firm grasp of theory... he must have gotten that in exchange for his soul.  That's what his music has always lacked, soul.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: penfold on November 25, 2006, 07:30:04 AM
I guess the shredders can do all that hold out a note for 5 mins whilst making fuckfaces so the audience can hold lighters in the air malarkey, it's just that their market dont want anything less than 10 note a second neo classical stuff. Yngwie's been churning out variations of Far beyond the Sun for decades heh. I don't mind heavily arpeggiated music anyway, I was brought up on electronica and classical.

There's a time and place for guitar music with soul too, I saw my first Slayer concert on Monday. I don't think they are going for that type of emotional response. There's feeling to it, but as it's the musical equivilent of an artillery barrage it's a bit more physical and tangible than a bluesman's licks.

Here's a bit of guitar wankery thats a little bit more musical than chaining endless sweep argeggio's (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-741601852741074772&q=bob+zabek)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on November 25, 2006, 12:21:41 PM
I saw my first Slayer concert on Monday. I don't think they are going for that type of emotional response. There's feeling to it, but as it's the musical equivilent of an artillery barrage it's a bit more physical and tangible than a bluesman's licks.

Here's a bit of guitar wankery thats a little bit more musical than chaining endless sweep argeggio's (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-741601852741074772&q=bob+zabek)


I always thought of Slayer, or just about any thrash/death metal guitar players, as percussionists. With a few exceptions.

I feel that's the kind of state of mind I have to be in when jamming with metal buddies as well. I just don't really feel like a "guitar player"....The way I see it.

Not to say I don't like it though. Slayer riffs are the shit. Raining Blood, Behind the Crooked Cross --   :rock:


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on November 26, 2006, 10:53:59 PM
This thread lacks acoustic stuff in it.  :-D

Months ago, I broke the 4th string on my 112-year-old banjo that I think I have mentioned here before. Since it predates steel strings, that means I had to go looking for gut or nylon. I ended up getting several sets of LaBella nylons that seemed like they were decent. Then I picked up one set of Aquila "Nylgut" strings, which are supposed to have the same characteristics as gut. They cost like it too... one set was $8, whereas $8 got me three sets of the LaBellas. The Aquila ones are what the guy who fixed up the banjo put on there in the first place. I replaced the broken 4th with a LaBella for now. I figure, I'll try replacing them all with the complete Aquila set when they wear out.

This means I started playing banjo again for the first time in ages.

I was getting these strings at Elderly Instruments because of course nobody close by stocks weird-ass banjo strings. (I went to three stores and only two of them even had the steel strings). Elderly has free shipping if you get your order large enough. So I figured I should shop. I picked up some polish and fretboard cleaner and the like.

Then I grabbed a Kyser partial capo, because my usual trick of turning the capo upside-down doesn't work so well on the Melody Maker (which I love to play, btw, you may get me to try doing more electric stuff just because of this guitar). This is great for doing the partial capo 3-4-5 thing, which I do a lot, but I also do other things (for example, partial 2-3-4-5-6 at the 5th fret, or 1-2-3-4 at a variety of frets, particularly when in DADGAD tuning) and this won't help with those. But for what it does, it's really nice, much nicer than the upside-down solution.

This led me to also find this thing called a Third Hand Capo -- basically, you can capo each string independently. It's basically an elastic capo, but with rotatable plastic ovals for each string. You just roll them out of the way. Unfortunately, well, it's an elastic capo. It does let me do all of my weird capoings (hey, at least I have mostly stopped doing double capoing -- one regular and then a partial above it!) so I may mess with it for that purpose.



Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on November 27, 2006, 01:10:20 AM
I usually order strings online. Hate going to a store for that.

http://www.juststrings.com/ (http://www.juststrings.com/)

They have those La Bellas you were talking about, I think. It's a good and fast site to buy bulk from.

Who made that banjo anyways? Or can you tell?


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on November 27, 2006, 10:57:49 AM
I enjoy buying strings. Supports the local music shop, I always buy a few picks though with the heavy gauge I use my picks last for years. I try to buy what I can from them, but they don't stock much good stuff. I got my Alvarez jumbo there. They mostly focus on lessons and school band stuff. Also, good opportunity to shoot the shit with some locals, I helped some guys with a recording solution for their band.

I inherited my grandfather's banjo, a crappy Silvertone. Real crappy, action is ridiculous. I thought about trying to lower the bridge, but I don't want to destroy the thing. I just bought some new strings for it. Need to actually learn how to play it, I tune it like a 5 string guitar :) Right now it's strung with the high and low string and I've been doing an Indian chant with it. Don't ask. In other stringed instrument news, I've been thinking about picking up a Charango (http://www.bolivianstuff.com/index.php?cPath=43_87&osCsid=855b990f84b518560ec1fc03681d7934). I know a guy from Chile who is just amazing, a master of the instrument. I know him from the renfaire circuit and might be able to talk him into lessons during the summer while his band is here.

Slayer. One of my favorite bands from the early 80s, I remember buying a Metal Massacre compilation with them on it, it turned out to be their vinyl debut. We used to get a lot of compilations because it was a great way back in the pre-internet days of digging new music (and a huge thanks to metal blade records!). There was some metallica, helloween, lots of cool stuff. Then I got their debut, Show No Mercy. Bought every subsequent album up until Seasons of the Abyss. Reign in Blood, of course, is the classic, but there were some great tracks on every album. I even arranged South of Heaven with a midi orchestra when I was in music school. The teacher didn't know the source, but my clique of metal buddies were sniggering in the back of the room. It really lent itself to the full orchestral treatment, suprisingly. For so many instruments, I had to layer in a lot more harmonies and side melodies than the band put in, but it turned out great. Wish I still had a tape of that.

Speaking of tape (I now date myself by calling all recording tape, like the DVR "Did I tape that episode"...bah), I laid down my very first full vocal/guitar song :) I never used to sing (except a few regretable backups) back in my band days. And I did lay down a snippet of "Sweet Dreams" when testing a recording setup (that sucked) in the late 90s. But this is my very first actual recording with my instrumentation + vocals. I did "I Can't Be Satisfied", a Muddy Waters slide in open G. Turned out ok, and I need to clean it up because I was kinda nervous and not really in the zone. Messed up the guitar several times, and my vocals...well, they're on there, anyway. A friend was over for football on Sunday and I played it for him. He loves slide guitar, so he liked it. I asked him about the vocals and he said it sounds like Tom Waits. Not sure if that's a compliment.

I'll probably retrack both the guitar and vocals, but first I want to test out the whole bouncing to the pc thing. The Fostex MR8HD is a nice little unit. A bit limited, but hey, it was only $350. Actually...my first track was "Old Man" by Neil Young...but oof...the vocals on that had me laughing my ass off. I'll stick with Muddy for a while ;)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on November 27, 2006, 01:49:54 PM
Supports the local music shop

Hmm...What's that?  :-D

Seems like everything has been taken over by the Sam Ash and Guitar Centers of the world. Even the local shops that do exist function in much the same way as Guitar Center. There's a popular local shop here in my town called "Hermes Music", but it's just as big and impersonal as Wal Mart.

There's one cool shop that's fairly small, but they specialize in boutique-ish triple rec amps, and not much else.

The used shops spread about have shit for vintage equipment.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Nebu on November 27, 2006, 03:14:06 PM
When I'm feeling nostalgic, I like to check out Ed Roman (http://www.iwantguitars.com/store/?search=1&select2=&order=sku&s_dept=&s_brand=&s_name=&s_model=&s_desc=&s_vint=on&s_rstr=&page=0) and eBay for vintage stuff. Some of the prices make my jaw drop, but it's still fun to look.  I miss all of the local shops, but can understand why it's so hard to stay in business as one.  Finding cheap gear is as easy as firing up your computer.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on November 27, 2006, 03:17:51 PM
I like to check out Ed Roman for his rants. He's incredibly asshole-ish.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Nebu on November 27, 2006, 03:23:43 PM
I like to check out Ed Roman for his rants. He's incredibly asshole-ish.

I agree.  I think it's his best quality.  Reading the tips on his site reminds me of a sign hanging in a small guitar shop in Minneapolis (B-Sharp was the store if you've ever been there):  "In God we trust.  All others pay with cash."


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on November 27, 2006, 05:56:42 PM
I usually order strings online. Hate going to a store for that.

http://www.juststrings.com/ (http://www.juststrings.com/)

Well, I was hoping to have them that day. No such luck.

Quote
They have those La Bellas you were talking about, I think. It's a good and fast site to buy bulk from.

Who made that banjo anyways? Or can you tell?

S S Stewart. I blogged in detail, including pictures, here:

http://www.raphkoster.com/2006/07/07/1894-stewart-banjo/

(http://www.raphkoster.com/wp-content/_Banjo.JPG)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sir Fodder on November 30, 2006, 05:31:18 PM

I got a steel string acoustic when I was 16 and tried to learn how to play for about 15 years on and off, I was pathetically bad however. I could be considered one of the worlds' worst guitar players but I probably don't even qualify for that. Anyways, I've got a masochistic streak and want to give it another go. I remember the first time sitting down with my guitar and not being able to figure out which way to hold it (righty or lefty). I'm sort of ambidextrous, probably more accurate to say I'm neither handed though. I think I wanted to play it lefty but it was strung right-handed so I just stuck with that.

I recently got a cheap nylon string guitar and am thinking maybe I'd have more success playing it lefty, but is it ok to just flip it over to play lefty? I restrung it a few days ago and it seems to work OK but I'm worried the string tensions might warp the neck or something... also should I flip the plastic bridge thingies around (the one at top seems glued in place)?

Another question I have is that I hate having long fingernails, I always cut them all down to the quick so I'm using my fingertips to pluck the strings. Seems like every finger-player (term?) uses their fingernails. I'm also using my pinky to pluck, I haven't noticed guitarists using their pinky much, but I'm thinking why let that bugger go to waste? Will this style work out ok in the long run? thanks


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on November 30, 2006, 06:39:38 PM
I recently got a cheap nylon string guitar and am thinking maybe I'd have more success playing it lefty, but is it ok to just flip it over to play lefty? I restrung it a few days ago and it seems to work OK but I'm worried the string tensions might warp the neck or something... also should I flip the plastic bridge thingies around (the one at top seems glued in place)?

Don't worry about neck tensions. It's quite fine. If the guitar has been strung like that for a LONG time though (i.e. is it new or old?), then it might mess with the tension a tiny bit. If that's the case, all you'd have to do is readjust the truss rod a small amount (like a 45 degree turn).

Flipping the bridge around is up to you, but not absolutely necessary. It might mess up your intonation a bit though.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on December 01, 2006, 01:35:10 AM
You can play quite successfully with flesh as opposed to nails. So don't worry about it. With nylon, it will not make a huge difference except in tone. If you were playing on steel, playing on nails helps reduce blistering on the fingertips of the picking hand.



Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on December 01, 2006, 08:49:07 AM
I use my fleshy bits to fingerpick (term: fingerpicker). I'd like to cultivate nails, the guy I mentioned who plays charango has some crazy hard pointy nails, I just can't do it. Also, my style is very influenced by my years playing bass with my fingers (striving to be Cliff Burton or Steve Harris...I can be percussive...). I have a shortcut to callous my right hand, I practice bass for a few hours a day before doing some intense fingerpicking guitar.

Righty/lefty, just go with your writing stance. If you write left-handed, play lefthanded. It really doesn't matter. In fact, that's kinda been my credo: it doesn't matter, go with what's right for you. If it feels natural (and sounds good) playing with your pinky, go for it. I use my pinky occasionally because it just kinda does it (I'm not real disciplined :)). I got a lot of compliments on my bass style when I was in music school because of my (disciplined!) two finger style (it took a lot of work to make them alternate properly), but mostly for my incorporation of the ring finger into more complex rhythm patterns (especially triplets, it's the only way I could play Maiden tunes, hours spent playing The Trooper ftw). So yeah, if it works, work it. If it feels odder than playing without it, maybe you could learn pieces with and without the pinky so you'll be able to play both ways or drop one down the line.

If you do decide to go lefty, you have to make the string flip decision early. Some lefties played with restrung right-hand guitars (Hendrix), some with lefty guitars, some with right-hand guitars strung for right-handers (Albert King, it's one of the reasons for his mighty bends, I've read).

I'm dying to post my crappy little song I recorded, but I'm striving mightily to wait until I have a better version recorded. I've already laid down a new (a bit too drunken) voice part that is much more in the direction I'm trying for. I have a very non-melodic voice (I find it very unpleasant :P) so I'm going for more of a Howlin' Wolf growl, which isn't so apparent in the first take. Also, need to fix a couple guitar bits. My girlfriend says I have 'show & tell' syndrome, as soon as I do something or get something new, I love to share it with everyone.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sir Fodder on December 02, 2006, 08:17:58 PM
Thanks for the info and tips. Its a new guitar ($99 Yamaha, seems pretty nice considering). Its a very pleasant feeling to play with the fingertips, physically satisfying (I tried with steel strings + pick in the past), though the tone is maybe not as clear as with a pick/nails. I write lefty but do other stuff righty/ambi - I always wondered about guitar handedness, thought the fret hand is the trickier part so its seems a bit counterintuitive how it works out for most people.

Go for it Sky I'd like to hear it, seems like a friendly place here, no worries.

Raph, that ukulele is freaking kool, nice tune (May) and the tone is sweet. Its astounding to me you are an accomplished musician on top of all the other stuff, makes me wonder what your parents/childhood were like. That your granddad had the uke is really neat, such a personal thing, all that sweat and care going into playing it... I wish I had been able to snag my granddads piano.

Thats interesting about Hendrix, his later live recordings have always tore me up real bad, 'Machine Gun' especially just lays me low. I was reading the BBC website last week with my mom nearby, there was a blurb for Jimi's birthday and I mentioned to her that he would have been 64 that day. She said "I didn't know you like Jimi Hendrix" then told me about how she and my dad had taken me to a Hendrix concert when I was about 4 months old, I was like "WHAT?!?"; my mom is the last person in the world I would have expected to be at a Hendrix concert, she is straight out of the old world (from Latvia on a donkey fleeing the Russians during WWII) and very elegant/conservative. She said "I couldn't believe that so much...(pause, clenches fists and grimaces) power could be going through one person." Damn, damn, damn... that hit me in the chest like a hammer.



Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on December 03, 2006, 01:35:35 AM
Raph, that ukulele is freaking kool, nice tune (May) and the tone is sweet. Its astounding to me you are an accomplished musician on top of all the other stuff, makes me wonder what your parents/childhood were like. That your granddad had the uke is really neat, such a personal thing, all that sweat and care going into playing it... I wish I had been able to snag my granddads piano.

The music stuff seems to have skipped a generation, actually. Both of my grandfathers were musicians. Of my paternal grandfather, my dad said "if it had strings, he could play it." But none of my uncles and aunts play. I do have a few cousins who do, though -- one's a drummer, and I think there's another guitar player. Many of my memories of my paternal grandparents involve song circles around a camper in Key Largo, lots of older folks playing all these jazz tunes.

My other grandfather played the Puerto Rican cuatro. He loved to sit on the porch and noodle on it. I never really listened to him much on it -- now I wish I had. I should chase down a cuatro at some point. Who knows where his ended up.

But me, I didn't pick up the guitar until I was 18. I messed around with keyboards before that. It was one of those things that I just said, "you know, I think I would like to learn how," and I had an old guitar that my brother had taken lessons on and ended up not pursuing.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on December 03, 2006, 02:11:19 AM
No musicians in my family (that I know of). Several kinds of artists though. My grandmother illustrated a lot of old Hollywood magazines. Mom's involved in arts and crafts stuff. Brother's a painter. I'm a fairly competent doodler. ;)

Picked up guitar at 13. Probably would have done it sooner if I had known it was "possible" (I had been under the impression that it was one of those things only famous people did or something. Hehe). The second I saw one of my old neighbors bust out his electric, I had to get one. He's the guy that originally taught me a lot of surf stuff, and to this day, those sensibilities have stuck with me.

SirFodder, I'm a lefty playing righty too (if I read you correctly). I, too, think it's a natural fit. Most notable guitarist in our boat that I can think of is Nels Cline. Pretty kickass experimental/jazz player, but probably more known for being in Wilco.

Here he is in Banyan (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmddP2cJkJ8).


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on December 04, 2006, 08:52:58 AM
No great musicians in my family, and I'm the only one still practicing. I grew up under the piano, though. Had an uncle and grandmother who played a lot, she did all spitiruals (southern baptist) and he was real eclectic (ragtime, 70s rock, classical, tv themes, he had a great ear). My mother used to play, too, but she hasn't in years. I think everyone should play a musical instrument, it's part of being a human :)

Part of why I'm reluctant to upload stuff is that I set the bar very high for myself. Fodder is new and maybe hasn't read the whole thread, but I used to be a pro metal bass player back in the 80s/90s (no you never heard of us or I'd still be pro hehe). Now I play blues guitar. My bar for quality is set where I left it when playing metal, very high. I was at the top of my game, pushed to what I could do with my genetics, when I was playing metal, vs being a blues newb. I'm used to having a singer as good as Bruce Dickinson or Geoff Tate, and my voice is barely musical. I've forgotten just about everything about recording I learned in school. So I'm wicked shy about my music right now, even if I'm not exactly a shy person about anything else...


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on December 04, 2006, 11:24:47 AM
[link removed]

Sorry, the hosting was only temoporary. I lost my isp password :P


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on December 04, 2006, 01:23:22 PM
Link doesn't work. You did that on purpose, didn't you?  :-P


I don't upload anything because I sold my mics. Serious!


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on December 04, 2006, 01:38:43 PM
Oops.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on December 04, 2006, 02:18:41 PM
Pretty cool man. I thought you said you had problems with slide? Sounds good to me. That was G right? Do you have anything in E too? I've been dabbling with that tuning lately myself.

One nitpick though: Need to turn down the lows a bit, and get that bad boy in the midrange (or alternatively, play on your bridge pickup). Also, bring those vocals to the forefront (not bad btw!).

[edit] Or in other words, I'd really like to record you Sky ;)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on December 04, 2006, 02:33:17 PM
I botched a spot where the lyrics break for a bass solo (that's not on there), and ended on the wrong note :) It's in open G. I don't have any EQ set up (I don't have an EQ), I probably could have imported it into Cakewalk, but I don't know how to use Cakewalk. I've got an old copy a friend gave me without a manual and the only manual I could find to download is the wrong version...And forget adjusting the guitar, that's my crapola guitar an ex-girlfriend left me because she felt too bad about me not having a guitar to take it. Cort strat knock-off, total garbage. I set the strings wicked high so it works decent for slide stuff and I can leave it in open tunings rather than always retuning. I also prefer a low boost like that, chalk it up to years of cutting out the midrange playing bass. But even when I was in school, no 'trained' people ever like my mixes, I guess I have an odd ear.

I did mess around with open E a couple weeks ago when I was toying with Statesboro Blues (Allmans version), but I decided to stick with works-in-progress before starting anything new. Muddy Waters played in open G for all of his early career, which is what I'm working on right now.

Finally, my bass thumb on guitar just sucks imo :) It's hard for me to break it into two seperate lines.

Vocals intentionally put way in the back :P


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sir Fodder on December 05, 2006, 12:37:44 AM
That put a big  8-) on my face Sky, bravo! (btw I've been around forever, just don't post much).

I was one of 6 kids, and the only one to never receive musical instruction. All the rest got extensive training, I was the only kid seriously interested in music too, WTF mom and dad? They said I was too "difficult" to even try,  jeesh; I went downtown (a BIG no no!) with a pocket full of change when I was in second grade and bought Sgt. Peppers. The thin tie clerks gave me a ton of good natured crap, especially when they found I was short some change, they still let me have the album. Of course nowadays I'm the only one among my siblings still pursuing music.

One note regarding my folks bringing me to see Hendrix when I was an infant; I've always "bragged" tongue in cheek that my first concert was a Neil Sedaka and Carpenters show I saw at age 7 or so, haha! Apparently I also got to see Glen Campbell perform "in a small restaurant with about 5 other people present" a few days after the Hendrix show. Damn. Neil and Carpenters were only my 3rd show  :cry:   :-D



Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on December 05, 2006, 11:26:00 AM
Hardly worth a bravo, but thanks.

My lady gets out of work a half hour later than I, so last night I broke out the guitar when I got home, intending to lay down a twelve bar to play over. I'm very bad at discipline, as I've mentioned, I can't even keep a twelve bar rhythm going without noodling around...Anyway, while I was tuning up the acoustic, I revisited an old jam I'd shared here before, so I decided to lay it down for grins. And just like the original, once I'd laid down the rhythm I had to put a lead on it...then I decided to add another rhythm track...and then I decided to put on a mysterious background sound..

It's a fingerpicked acoustic rhythm on 1, I think I flatpicked the acoustic solo on 2, a flatpicked acoustic rhythm (for percussiveness) on 3, and some spacey guitar sound on my SG on 4. Pushed the two rhythm tracks left and right, pushed the SG way back for just a kind of ethereal odd sound in the back. Very sloppy as always, just first take improv stuff I quickly laid down (about 15 minutes total) while waiting to go to the store. Once I spend the time to do good takes I might actually be happy with my stuff :)

I've got a lot of work ahead to get back my recording skills. One reason my mixes are not up to snuff is my monitor situation. I used to have good studio monitors and headphones, as well as a variety of stuff to play the mixes on (home stereo with nice speakers, etc). Now I've got cheap old pc powered monitors (shorted out, they suck), a cheap headphone I used to use for teamspeak, and my 5.1 (which lacks good stereo fronts because I'm cheap).


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on December 05, 2006, 11:51:18 AM
Nice solo/lead playing, but yeah, you're right, you lack discipline for rhythm. I thought you had played bass! Next time, only lay one rhythm track. ;)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on December 05, 2006, 12:00:33 PM
I was trying to layer and intertwine them, because the fingerpicked and percussive things played well off each other...I just couldn't hear the first one well when I was laying down the second one and kept forgetting where the changes were because I was doing it off the cuff :) When I played bass, I had an amazing drummer to keep time and whatnot.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: penfold on December 05, 2006, 01:12:07 PM
Oh i liked that spanish like one. Mix was a bit messy, but solo and fingerpicking was real nice.

Its nearly a year since i started playing, and seem to be keen as ever. Hope i keep it up as long as you guys, perhaps one day i will be able to lay down the Dragonforce solo of my dreams lol.





Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: climbjtree on December 09, 2006, 02:01:53 PM
I missed the performance - maybe you could find another host? I'd like to hear it!


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sir Fodder on December 19, 2006, 02:41:13 AM
I'm still trying to figure out the best way to hold my classical type guitar, the left side of my back ends up getting fatigued real quick (playing left handed). I put a strap on it and it helps a lot though its still not great. I don't like the idea of using a foot stool / raising one leg up to rest the guitar on. I watched some videos of classical guitarists not using a foot stool but I can't figure out how they do it, like this guy (who IMO is amazing): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6W7CCQi-CWI     I tried holding the guitar like him but the neck wants to just fall down to horizontal, how the heck is he holding it like that?


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on December 19, 2006, 03:44:17 AM
Takes practice.

Like I said to someone earlier in this thread, a big part about learning an instrument is dexterous. Getting acquainted and used to the physicality of it. Be it piano, horns, percussion, or string instruments.

----

Sorry to derail, but I came across a cool video of one of my favorite guitarists (and singer/songwriters to boot):

Richard Thompson - 1952 Vincent Black Lightning (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxKTzwaEa2o)

Pretty cool. I wish all my favorite musicians filmed themselves strumming in their living rooms.

Any Fairport/Thompson fans here?



Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on December 19, 2006, 09:27:38 AM
That guy was pretty good. As far as classical guitarists, I've been listening to Christopher Parkening (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQ7iX_dWec4) doing some Segovia and flamenco. Sans Placido, though ;) Also some Pepe Romero (http://youtube.com/watch?v=X0m2iSLaWQo), who is pretty amazing. The guy who first got me into flamenco style (though he's really more jazz now that I'm eruditer ;)) was Paco DeLucia (http://youtube.com/watch?v=OV_OysllKJQ) on the amazing Friday Night in San Francisco, with John McLaughlin (http://youtube.com/watch?v=W-MkGO0th9Y) and Al DiMeola (http://youtube.com/watch?v=RHnth4Av-Nk). If you don't own that album, YOU MUST GO BUY IT NOW. It's the best guitar album I've ever heard, I've had a copy since 84 or so.

The guy Fodder is looking at seems to be balancing the butt of the guitar in his lap. I imagine that would take some practice. I sit the hip of the guitar on my right leg (I'm right-handed), though I was taught to sit it on my left leg with a foot step. I might play around with new stances because lately I've really been digging into the top side with my upper right arm. I don't know if that's because I'm just playing so much more acoustic now (blues and some clsasical I'm working on for the holidays) or if it's because it's a jumbo guitar or what.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sir Fodder on December 19, 2006, 03:45:06 PM
Damn, you people have some good taste, I usually have a hard time finding music I like. Thompson is amazing, I just heard his stuff for the first time a few weeks ago on a Sierra Nevada show that popped up on a public access channel. I was admiring his stage presence/writing/singing for a while, then suddenly it hit me what an amazing guitarist he is.  DeLucia yes! DiMeola not so much, he always seemed to me a bit spastic and infatuated with technique, same for McLaughlin but I do like some of his early 70's stuff. Haven't heard any of their more recent (post mid 70s) stuff though, I'll keep an eye out for the live album.


Back to guitar holding: in that Parkening video he seems comfortable with the foot stool but his torso appears sort of twisted, I want to avoid that (my spine is really long and back not too strong) and the between the legs style seems more ergonomic (I'm not sure though) and sexy to boot. If I try to hold the guitar this way though it seems to be more than just a matter of dexterity, it would require superhuman picking-arm-strength or a super sticky guitar without propping it with the fretting hand, which seems awkward...

Hmm! I was looking for more examples of guitar holding and came across this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbeAbllBpGo  and this  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZkK5Bbn0Og  There appears to be some kind of stand attached to the side-underside ofthe guitar. I thought there was something fishy going on. Anyone know anything about this prop thingy?

Damn though, I took another look at that Peo Kindgren video I posted and there appears to be no prop, the guitar seems to just magically stick there, it can't be balanced at that angle! and it's clear that his fret hand isn't propping it up, what the heck is going on? Hmm, is it just a shadow here? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rC0tuRFHbUg maybe he's got a mini-prop?


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: penfold on December 19, 2006, 05:17:16 PM
If you want a guitar that naturally holds itself in an upright position you could always try a Flying V Accoustic (http://www.deanguitars.com/dean_winter_06/v_coustic.htm). Gimmicky though!

Paul Gilbert playing spanish guitar. (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4136369911221730998&q=paul+gilbert+flamingo) I won't comment on the standard of his playing compared to the masters listed above, but it's a really nice tune.
I don't really have a clue whats going on here. Some kind of Japanese TV show (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peQiudKTyiE&mode=related&search=) involving him and Marty Friedman. I like the way that even though they both speak Japanese, they get subtitled. Bizarre and strangely watchable though, and plenty of good ol' guitar wankery.





Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on December 19, 2006, 06:52:01 PM
Yeah, that's a great show. I wish someone did something like that in America.

...Then again, maybe not. Without the Japanese goofiness, it'd probably suck.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on December 19, 2006, 07:31:48 PM
Damn, you people have some good taste, I usually have a hard time finding music I like. Thompson is amazing, I just heard his stuff for the first time a few weeks ago on a Sierra Nevada show that popped up on a public access channel. I was admiring his stage presence/writing/singing for a while, then suddenly it hit me what an amazing guitarist he is.

Yeah, I really dig him. Definitely in my top 10. Too bad there aren't very many good examples of his electric playing on Youtube...Especially before he left Fairport. He's an amazing lead guitar player, but on acoustic, it's the singing and songwriting that stand out (I'm not complaining though).


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sir Fodder on December 20, 2006, 12:56:04 AM
Oh wow, I didn't realize Richard Thompson was in Fairport. Back in '84 I saw an open air Jethro Tull concert on a pier in NYC (right next to that aircraft carrier they just moved); the opening act was supposed to be "Fairport Five" but there was a transport problem and only 2 of the members made it on time, I'm now almost certain one of them must have been Thompson - there was some prodigious acoustic jamming going on. The Tull band joined them on stage and they had a raucous medievalish acoustic set that was freaking amazing, one of those things where everything just came together perfect.

OK, I think I've got to the bottom of this mysteriously balanced guitar mystery! Take a look at the ErgoPlay and Efel Rest on this page: http://www.staffordguitar.com/shop/accessoriesnew.asp  I must have one of these things, anyone have recommendations for online guitar gear sellers?


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on December 20, 2006, 04:20:29 AM
That might have been him in 84, but not likely. He was one of the founders of Fairport, but he left in the early 70's. He occasionally gigs with them though.

The Thompson era Fairport (which was more Folk Rock-ish, with Thompson's guitar antics) is a completely different beast than what it became (more Folk and Experimental).

This is the only decent example of him in Fairport on Youtube:

Time Will Show the Wiser (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMIq_pmHLAI)

Really cool groove, some great lead fill ins (although brief). Still not a good example though.

[EDIT] Crap, I screwed up in editing this thing and lost another link I put up....Oh well.

Anyhow, he's not doing Paganini like some of these links you guys are posting. ;) I don't like him because of virtuosity or anything. He just has these quivering vibrato techniques that I love...Really expressive, even with one note.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on December 20, 2006, 09:08:02 AM
I'm not really into the folk thing. I occasionally jam with two folkies and it's tough to integrate into their playing. I usually just sit back and noodle. It's funny with them and the capoes, though (hi Raph!). I just find capoes throw me off, so I just play in whatever key without the capo.

I have been getting a little into the Renaissance thing, I've been very inspired by a chilean guy Conrado Garcia. I think I've mentioned him before, he's a charangista (plays the charango), and he's got amazing technique. The main reason I go to our local renfest is to watch him. You can check out some videos and mp3s here (http://www.cantigamusic.com/music.html), though he's not on all of them. I also picked up this book (http://www.amazon.com/Cantigas-Renaissance-Festival-Favorites-Bielefeld/dp/078664432X/sr=8-2/qid=1166627042/ref=sr_1_2/102-5870137-5632113?ie=UTF8&s=books) they just put out. Nice collection of instrumentals and renfest singalongs.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on December 20, 2006, 09:16:55 AM
My neighbor (and the guy I play with the most these days) is pretty renfaire-ish and folky. He even looks like James Taylor. Hehe. Very cool guy though. He's been playing for 30 years longer than I have, and has taught me a lot.

But anyways, Fairport is definitely folk-y. You'd have to be into it somewhat. The early Fairport was better at incorporating it with rock though.

Umm....

Here's a good example I just uploaded:

Matty Groves (http://files.filefront.com//;6390859;;/)

Probably the coolest version of Matty Groves ever. Almost gets a little Prog-ish towards the end there. But the standout in that song is not Thompson, it's Sandy Denny on vocals.





Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on December 28, 2006, 09:00:49 AM
I don't think I've mentioned these fun books I found: Blues Play-along (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0634056271). There's a couple blues (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0793574625), some funk, some soul, some rock, etc, etc. I got the two blues and a southern rock (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0634084003) for xmas. They have two versions of each track: one with the vocal stripped and one with vocals and guitar stripped. Fun to play along with and kind of interesting to hear some very guitar-heavy tunes sans guitar, bringing out the piano and horn parts (which I love). Wish I had known about these years ago. Thanks, Hal Leonard!

Santa also brought me a couple of things for the SIAB (studio-in-a-box, my MR8HD): a decent pair of Sennheiser headphones (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Sennheiser-HD280-Pro-ClosedBack-Headphones?sku=242411) for monitoring and the all-important footswitch (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Korg-PS100-Momentary-Footswitch?sku=152189) for punching in. I'm also starting to learn how to use the dern thing. I'll spare you guys my test recordings for a while :) I did a decent Kind-Hearted Woman and an atrocious Sweet Home Chicago (Robert Johnson not Blues Brothers). Robert Johnson is so simple yet so complex, it's pretty wild stuff. If you haven't listened to his stuff, I highly recommend it (if you're interested in blues, of course). Also a super-seekr1t version of Melissa by Gregg Allman for my ladyfriend, going to surprise her with it.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on January 04, 2007, 09:34:08 AM
Man, grab one of those Fostex MR8HD units I just got. They are great. Not sure what your financial constraints are, but one of those plus a cd burner in your pc is all you really need for a basic cd.

I still have my trusty old PowerMac for recording, but I sold my mics awhile back. And I'm picky about mics. Almost as picky as I am with guitars. The only thing I can record right now is MIDI/synth. I've yet to put this amp I have in a recording, and that's what I want to do (the Fender VK I posted some time back). As for the songs I have on the backburner, they were all recorded with a handheld and either an acoustic or my cheapo Vox. Just scrapbooks really.

I have some older stuff on file that I used to do for my brother's multimedia firm, and an old demo album for a friend's metal band too. I'd post them, but I'm not too proud of that stuff. It's not really me ;).
(Continued from pet projects)

I've been going direct guitar > Boss GT6 > Fostex MR8HD. I don't have a good sounding amp right now, so it's not a huge deal, but at some point I'll need to get something for playing shows, a fender twin or something. Right now it's some cheezy Peavey 150W bass amp into a Dean Markley 1x15 cab loaded with my old favorite bass speaker, the EVMB 400W 15". Also, using the phantom on the MR8HD for my only mic right now, the mighty dynamic Shure SM58 road warrior. I should probably look to upgrade that at some point or learn how to use the mic better (I actually do know how to use one well, though...) because it's been more uneven than it should be for recording.

I could see mics becoming an obsession. I wasn't too obsessed in the band days, because I didn't really have any money, I just worked with what I had. But now I have to be real disciplined...At the very least I want to grab a large diaphram condenser and a few small diaphrams for my drum kit when I get to that point. And a new drum kit at some point, bought mine for $100. The SM58 actually isn't too bad for my vocals as I'm going for a growly thing anyway, but I'd like some flexibility.

And then there's equalization...I'm a fan of analog gear, it's what I learned on. Or at least hardware, I haven't really enjoyed using a computer for recording (though I learned them, too, back in the early 90s). My thought there is one of those nice rack graphic EQs with the shiny lights :) I'm working hard at not getting GAS (gear acquisition syndrome) until I've recorded at least one cd worth of material, though.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on January 04, 2007, 04:25:21 PM
Right now I just want a Senn MD421 and an SM57. Nothing too fancy, but I keep spending cash on other stuff.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on January 05, 2007, 08:32:05 AM
Me, too. Especially trying to build a high end pc next month. And I think I want to grab an ipod before they screw them up. My bets are on a bigger screen with the next product refresh, and I don't want a big screen. There's a decent SM57 drum set (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Shure-Drum-Mic-Package?sku=270263) I'm considering because it then gives me three 57s to play with (plus 'free' drum mounts). I'm tentative about the kick mic, since it doesn't look like it'll be a multitasker, but it might be ok for my bass. I'll probably hold off on a large diaphram condenser until I can afford something nice, the dynamic really should be good enough with my crappy vocals.

I really wish I had somewhere better to set up my drums. They are in the basement of my mom's house (she LOVES that), and it scares the hell out of her cats when I go over there to play. And I'm limited to times when she's not there, it's a long drive, etc. Bah. Drums r fun.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on January 09, 2007, 10:20:08 AM
Not strictly a guitar thing, but I'll drop it in here: Belkin Tunestudio (http://playlistmag.com/news/2007/01/08/tunestudio/index.php). Rather limited (16bit) but to be expected given the device involved. Basically, a ministudio to interface with an ipod. Kinda nifty (though I still don't have an ipod!).

(http://edge.macworld.com/2007/01/images/content/tunestudio.jpg)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on January 09, 2007, 06:06:29 PM
That's slick.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on January 11, 2007, 01:45:57 AM
Sniff, I don't own an iPod, but that thing looks like a good replacement for my aging setup: a Tascam Portastudio II that I use only as a mixer, running into an Audigy EX (yeah, the original Audigy).



Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on January 11, 2007, 09:02:26 AM
I'll pimp the fostex mr8hd again. Great little unit, though I really think I need some EQ. And more mics. And near-field monitors. :| The 40GB HD is nice, my biggest worry was that I couldn't bounce discreet tracks, only the stereo mixdown...in fact, that's what the manual says, too. But when I mounted it on my pc (as an external USB drive), I had access to all the files. I'm not sure about the other way (discreet tracks from the pc to the unit, but mixdowns to the unit are supposed to work, not sure why).

So if I ever get off my lazy ass and get a decent pc program to edit and mix (I'll take suggestions, I have an old undocumented copy of Cakewalk (6 maybe?)), I should be golden until I want to move into the low-end professional space.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on January 11, 2007, 09:51:23 AM
At the end of the day, just remember that Bruce Springsteen made Nebraska on a tape 4 track.  :-P


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on January 11, 2007, 04:09:21 PM
Well, I do my recording to hard disk on my computer these days. But having something more portable would be cool. This thing looks like it does double-duty.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on February 07, 2007, 02:49:27 AM
Thread... must... not... slip... off... front... page....!

Recent musicky stuff I have posted:

http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/02/04/the-sunday-poemsong-longitude/
http://www.raphkoster.com/2006/11/26/the-sunday-song-the-coming-gloria/


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on February 07, 2007, 08:22:40 AM
You are far more focused than I :P I should have some new stuff soonish, though. I think I need to take my acoustic into the shop and get a winter shim made (or figger it out meself), it usually bottoms out on bends on the first couple strings in the 10-13 fret range, where I play alot (bb box area!). This morning it was totally fretting out and unplayable there :( Sonofa. I mostly practice on the acoustic for finger strength, so I might raise the action a little, too.

The Longitude reminds me of some stuff I wrote in the 80s, about archeologists in Egypt. My singer rejected them as 'geek songs' :P I took it as a compliment, but they were never recorded.

The Coming sounds like it could have been an early Claypool tune, I like how you crafted it as a story.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on February 07, 2007, 06:20:01 PM
I have built a 350 song fakebook of stuff I enjoy playing at jams, and have a copy of it at the office now too. That's where most of my playing has gone lately... those songs are actually years old (Longitude dates from 2001 and that recording from 2002).


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: penfold on February 08, 2007, 04:08:43 AM
I have a new accoustic, a Yamaha APX 500BL (http://www.musik-service.de/yamaha-apx-500-bl-prx395756080de.aspx). Its was only cheap, but the neck and action are more like an electric than other accoustics i've played, although strings little close together, and cant do bends as easy. Tone could be better of course, but its nice for its price. Just so easy to pick up and play for a little bit without having to plug in my POD etc. It's small too and more suited to me. A dreadnought body is too big i can barely get my right arm over those, and are uncomfortable to play.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on February 08, 2007, 10:31:25 AM
I have built a 350 song fakebook of stuff I enjoy playing at jams, and have a copy of it at the office now too. That's where most of my playing has gone lately... those songs are actually years old (Longitude dates from 2001 and that recording from 2002).
I've been trying to focus enough to play a few songs in their entirity :) I really, really need to get out and play at some blues jams, we have one a month here. Problem is I tend to odder songs, and nobody really plays the older country blues style I enjoy (my boss called it 'sittin on the porch' music). I've mentioned the play-along books I got and they are great for discipline, as the recorder has been. I'm feeling pretty confident (although I'm sure I'll do better than at least a third of the hackers that get up there), but I'm a perfectionist coming from (ok, 15 years ago!) being at the top of the game as a metal bassist, so my standards are set really high.

I'm sure it'll be cool to just sit in on a minor blues jam or something. One thing I'd like to do is get a decent amp to bring along so I'm not struggling with someone else's tone....

Really just a matter of making time to sit and work through multiple versions while recording. I'm way too used to throwing something down and not going back to do better versions. Didn't need to in the old days, we were a one-take live band, so I never built up any discipline...


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on February 08, 2007, 01:30:35 PM
The fakebook I did is all over the map. From folkie stuff I play (Ellis Paul, Martin Sexton, Dar Williams, Bill Morrissey, Greg Brown) to 80s stuff ("Take on Me" by a-ha is a fun campfire singalong when everyone's drunk enough, Eurythmics, even "Eye of the Tiger" or whatever) to some standards (Ray Charles, "Puttin' on the Ritz," "Summertime," etc). Basically, it's based on "what would make for a fun time of people swapping tunes."

I can play through most any song in the book -- some more "authentic" sounding than most.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on February 08, 2007, 01:35:34 PM
I need something like that. I used one in college for jazz standards. But I always had to have my guitar buddy show me the melody lines because I suck at reading music (still). I've got one for renfaire songs (listed at the top of this page). I've also got a few tab books with a crazy plethora of stuff, the White Pages books for Acoustic, Guitar and Bass. Fun to flip through and play a little, but fake books allow for more easy playing of songs, no doubt.

Music purchasing (book and audio) is on hold for a few months while my budget recovers from my new pc (see the $$$ thread in pc forum) and the x-country ski package I bought last night (getting dumped with snow, I'm making the most of it).


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Moaner on March 22, 2007, 04:39:07 AM
Rise!

So after about 5 years I finally picked up my guitar again.  It's a PRS which I bought new in '96.  After a quick string change and some tuning I'm amazed at how well this thing has held up.  There is a little rust on the pick ups, the intonation is a little off, and the truss rods need some adjusting but other than that I think it's good to go. 

So, I'm looking for some advice here.  In the past I took my guitars to a man who built classical instruments for students at U of M.  He was fucking amazing to say the least, but he's also dead now.  I'm looking for some help learning to maintain this thing myself but I'm not finding a definitive source easily.  This thing has 4 (I think) Truss rods and that intimidates me.  So, does anyone have a good guide bookmarked that may be of help?  I've done some searches, read the manual that came with the guitar, and visited the PRS site but I'm still not comfy doing it myself.  I guess I just need to buck up and trust in the fact I'm not going to kill the thing?  Normally I'd try without hesitation, but this guitar is my baby.  I'd have sex with it if I thought I could, I like it that much.

Also, I was shocked to see how little I had lost in the way of dexterity.  Within 20 minutes I was shredding almost as well as I used to.  I remember all my scales, most of my theory, and even a few old songs from my band.  I'm almost glad I took the long break as I have not been this excited about playing since I was a teenager. 

Now the hunt for the perfect amp, and now that I actually make money, this should be a blast.  I have GAS again!


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on March 22, 2007, 05:42:49 AM
Don't do it.

I like mucking around with guitars a lot, but I even I wouldn't mess with that.

I don't know why PRS did that really. That kind of truss rod setup is really only necessary for super high tension instruments, like 5 or 6 string basses.


However, a good rule of thumb for a tech is: Find the shop in your town that sells boutique equipment. Top Hats, Orange, Mesas. etc.. Or alternatively, a shop that has a lot of vintage equipment. Like a good one with Fender blackfaces, and not just silvers. More than likely, the guys working there know what they're doing. Or simply, find a PRS dealer.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on March 30, 2007, 09:19:25 AM
omfgdrool (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Gibson-SG-61-Reissue-Antique-Ebony-with-Gold-Hardware-?sku=512788)



Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on April 03, 2007, 02:44:26 PM
A few months after I finally buy the MR8HD....they release a MR16HD (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Fostex-MR16HD-16Track-Digital-Recorder?sku=701051). Goddamned technology. Anyone need a great 8-track? ;)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on April 13, 2007, 01:19:24 PM
Posted another guitar instrumental, this one from ten years ago.

http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/04/08/the-sunday-song-the-march-of-the-elephants/


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: climbjtree on April 18, 2007, 10:22:43 PM
Virtual Band Idea:

I've come up with a short new song which I play mainly on the ukulele. My idea is that I'll record it as a .wav, upload it somewhere for ya'll to download, you'll add something to it, and then re-upload it for the next guy.

Any takers? I think this could be a fun little side project.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on April 19, 2007, 10:13:00 AM
Can't hurt. I don't have any permanent upload space though.

Posted another guitar instrumental, this one from ten years ago.
That downslide part is perfect. Great song, might be my favorite of your stuff thus far (I hope that doesn't come across as an insult :P). DADGAD I always associate with Jimmy Page, but leave it to you to put on your crazy capo thingy.

My acoustic's neck was warped to hell for about a month or two, but now it's back to only fretting out on a couple bends :| Gotta get it fixed at some point, not sure it's worth what it'd cost, though. I miss the feel of the acoustic where I can really apply a lot more of my fingerpicking and bass styles (though I'm a horrid fingerpicker technically, I just play normal stuff with my fingers).


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on April 23, 2007, 02:12:09 PM
I'm up for the uke-overdubbing.

Glad you liked the tune, Sky. Me, I associate DADGAD with people like Hedges and Bensusan, but whatever!

I posted some noodling yesterday: http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/04/22/the-sunday-song-pick-em-all-up/


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on April 23, 2007, 03:53:18 PM
Quote
The recording is a bit muddy, and a bit messy — I didn’t actually write parts for anything other than the mandolin, so everything else is just improv and more than a bit rough, since some of the parts stomp each other or collide. But what the hey, it’s dinnertime and I have been working on it for around 6 hours, so I am posting it.
Now you're sounding like me :P Except I don't really write anything ahead of time and don't spend more than 15 minutes or so on stuff. Damned ADHD imo. I did do a version of a Willie Dixon tune I'm fond of, using some backing tracks I got in a book. The backing tracks are real hit-or-miss (the organ parts on Thrill is Gone are obnoxious) but it's nice to get into the swing of playing with a full band again, so I can put a lot more space in my playing (or could if I could). I do want to clean it up some, then I'll post it. Maybe that instrumental Thrill is Gone at some point, too. I've been busy, but as usual it's all sloppy stuff just jamming or jotting down ideas (I wrote a love song, heh).

Banjo debut! Intertube connection at work is being it's usual shit self, so I only got about a quarter in. Nice stuff, you make me want a mandolin :|


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on April 25, 2007, 09:42:04 AM
So....

I sold my Vibro-King (at a profit heh). Sweet, sweet amp (if you can recall (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/lonestar627/Guitars/VK_and_Jazzmaster.jpg)), but too much amp for me (I mean, to give an indication, freakin' Pete Townsend uses them....and I'm not Pete). It was also very high maintenance ($200+ for tube replacements, for example).

I'll probably get a Deluxe Reverb to replace it. 22 Watter, and unlike the VK, can be saturated at acceptable levels. Good for garages and possibly small clubs.


Anyways, I still have my Vox Valvetronix for now. The preamp's kind of finnicky in it, but it's a cool little thing. Not really an ideal alternative to real valves though.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on April 25, 2007, 11:06:48 AM
I went through the amp dilemma last year iirc (Heh...page 9!). I still don't have a decent amp and I want to start playing at the blues jam nights (I'm part of the local Blues Society, cool group). I just don't have the dough to do it right, right now.

All I have now is my practice Pignose and my old bass practice amp, a 125W Peavey Mk III (run through a 400W 15" EV full-range in a Dean Markley cab). Both sound pretty crappy, even running through my Boss GT6. These days I usually am running direct through my mixer into my Sennheisers, so I'm all set to punch record if I stumble across something cool.

I need to do a LOT of test driving amps because my amp knowledge is circa 1993, and it was all about the MONSTER STACKS. In fact, I'd still like to get a nice Marshall tube half-stack for grins. But in reality, a nice club amp is what I need right now. A 1x12 or 2x10 kinda deal, maybe tubes. I'd prefer to ditch my Boss GT6 for my blues stuff and just use it to record, so an amp that has a good tone and breaks up nicely for leads would be perfect. I had a Peavey 2x12 for a while in the 80s, and it was a nice amp, but might be too beefy for blues.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on April 25, 2007, 12:29:32 PM
A 1x12 or 2x10 kinda deal, maybe tubes.

Try the Deluxe Reverb I mentioned above. Either that, or a Custom Vibrolux. They break up nicely (to say the least) at acceptable volumes (the Lux can be pretty loud though...But it's wired to break up earlier).



Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on April 25, 2007, 02:14:51 PM
I like loud, I'm an old metal guy ;) But I want to be good in the mix, I'm more of a team player, partly from playing bass for so long (though as a bass player, I had the guitarist tendency to crank my amp...). Lookiloo at musiciansfriend (as I have no dough), the Fender Blues Deluxe looks decent (40W 1x12). The Super Reverb I mentioned before would be nice (45W 4x10), but probably too loud for clubs and too heavy to tug around.

One thing that drives me nuts are all these blues guys that only talk about SRV in the comment threads.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on April 25, 2007, 02:41:15 PM
The Super Reverb is the pretty the be all end all of blackface Fender amps (while the VK I had was the be all end all for blondes and tweeds, and bassman types).

Yeah, it's a kickass amp. And very loud (remember that Little Johnny Jewel track I posted here awhile back? That was a Super Reverb, but with a Tube Screamer).

Also, there's probably too much headroom than you're looking for. You'll get great clean sounds at very high volumes, but won't hear breakup until the very upper limit.

The Deluxe Reverb I mentioned is basically a mini version of the SR (sort of...it's a little brighter, especially with single coils). Standard blackface sound, but breaks up early.


If you really want to cut into a mix though, high mids is what you should go for. That's where a Vox AC (or an Orange for that matter) kicks everyone's ass. They make single 12" models now, so you should test one out.

[EDIT]

Excuse this guy's guitar face, but he provides a good sample of the Deluxe Reverb for blues playing. This is what it'd sound like through a Gibson once it breaks up. Different story with Fenders, of course.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JlvXI71FKg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JlvXI71FKg)

[edit] Fixed link :)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on April 25, 2007, 03:58:23 PM
I've gotta get more stuff up on the tube.  Note I don't show my face when I play  :-P

I had one good blues jam on my acoustic...but I forgot to put on pants, hehe. Woops, I won't inflict that on you guys.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on April 25, 2007, 04:01:00 PM
It should be mentioned that that same guy has a Super Reverb vid as well. I think he modded the speakers a bit, but you'll find that it and the Deluxe Reverb are similar in tone with a Gibson. Just one's a fuckload louder than the other.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Selby on April 26, 2007, 07:56:13 AM
I recently acquired a Marshall MG 250DFX.  After 9 years of never having an amplifier that worked, this thing is quite impressive.  Sure, it's digital and doesn't use tubes, therefore I'm not ready to be a professional just yet, but I love the sound it gives to my crappy guitars ;-)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on April 26, 2007, 08:28:34 AM
I had something similar at one time (actually, I had the exact amp, I think. Except it was an older model with just chorus). Never could get into those Marshalls though (I mean, Marshall from the 80's to Present). Great high gain, shredding sound... But not much in the way of simple overdrive and cleans. Especially with Fenders and single coil guitars, which sound pretty atrocious with them.

Not that I don't like metal or anything, but I always feel limited with them.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on April 26, 2007, 08:55:20 AM
Reading a guitar history book (see the Book Thread). Turns out we tabtards are traditionalists. Next time some haughty sight-reader of 'traditional' notation gives you shit for being a tabtard (dunno 'bout you guys, I get shit all the time from jazztards and the like, but I was in school and whatnot), tell them that what we call tablature now is how guitar was originally transcribed in the 16th century. I flipped the first time I turned the page and saw a sheet of 16th century music in tablature!


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on April 26, 2007, 09:08:32 AM
I don't play with too many notation readers really. One of my friends is a trumpet player, but he's easy to communicate ideas with. There's another friend who plays piano. She isn't difficult about it or anything, but she gets preachy sometimes (but in a nice way).

I've ran into strangers across the years though that sound like the jazz guys you mention, but not much.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on April 26, 2007, 09:17:07 AM
Pretty cool.

http://damncoolpics.blogspot.com/2007/04/lego-guitar.html (http://damncoolpics.blogspot.com/2007/04/lego-guitar.html)

(http://bp0.blogger.com/_mmBw3uzPnJI/RipwlR37UHI/AAAAAAAADf4/759qBsr4O0k/s400/lego_guitar_05.jpg)


Not sure why he put real pickups in it though.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on April 27, 2007, 10:27:55 PM
Jazz players can't talk -- a jazz guitar lead sheet isn't much more than the main riff in notation, and a set of chords.

Tablature is a superior notation for stringed plucked instruments because timbre varies from string to string and position to position. In jazz guitar, for example, they avoid playing open strings because of this fact. 5 on the E and 0 on the A just sound different; and 4 on the G and 0 on the B sound WAY different.

If only tab also notated some of the other subtleties -- like strum hand position. After all, timbre varies significantly depending on whether you are playing by the bridge, soundhole, or close to the neck. Naturally, you electric players cheat and just adjust your pickups to only pick up the stuff you want. Us acoustic guys get to mix it up personally, analog, just by moving our hand!


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Selby on April 27, 2007, 11:33:43 PM
Naturally, you electric players cheat and just adjust your pickups to only pick up the stuff you want.
Those of us with a guitar that has 2 dead sets of pickups and only one working set actually get to do this too!  It's amazing how you can vary the way a string is played just by moving the position you strum from.  I've always done this instead of using nifty effects that fancy-pants professionals use.  I like to think it makes me cooler, but it really doesn't (at least my mom likes me).


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on April 27, 2007, 11:42:00 PM
Yeah, you misunderstand us electric guys Raph ;). Perhaps it's a little more subtle, but positioning is still used for changing timbre on electrics too. Probably more with certain styles than others (say, country players who transition between chicken pickin' leads high on their bridges and then into the low end for those bassy Johnny Cash/Duane Eddy type rhythms).

I know there's some songs of mine where changing to a neck pickup just doesn't get what I want -- but playing low with a bridge pickup setting hits the timbre I'm looking for.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on April 28, 2007, 06:38:25 AM
I was just teasing. I do have that 62 Melody maker, remember? It's got 2 P90s in it... so I know how it works. :)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on April 30, 2007, 09:52:26 AM
And some of us are stringed instrumentalists, the electric is only one of several instruments we play :P I'm in a money crunch (still) with trying to buy a house, but I want to get a bit more variety in my lineup: a mandolin, a resonator, a charango, a lute, some early guitars like chittarinos or something. But I love playing my acoustic equally as much as my electric, there's so much you can do on it that you can't do on the other, they're extremely complementary. And honestly, I'm still getting used to pickup switching and playing with volumes and tones. The SG is great for that (like the Les Paul), my old guitars were so shitty I was better off not touching the electronics!

As for rt-hand position, it's critical in some tunes. When I play All Your Love by Otis Rush, where it breaks into the solo arpeggiated triad, it's nice to move up close to the neck and get a real nice rich ringing tone, and when you slide down to the Bm triad it usually sends shivers down my spine.

Conversely, I like to play right on the bridge for the opening of Wish You Were Here by Floyd. That song has served me so well back when I'd sit in with hippies and use it as trade for reefers. Right-hand position subtlety gave me an edge over a lot of other guitarists, because Floyd used a few sounds on that track.

Wrote a new song last night at 1am, my poor landlord. I can direct-in to my recorded but the vocals...well, I'm loud. At least I don't have my drums there. It's a new spin on Kind-Hearted Woman, with a little Allman-y feel to the vocals (at least that's where I want it to end up, I'm not a great vocalist).


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: penfold on May 01, 2007, 07:32:43 AM
I went to the London Guitar Show this weekend. As its the UK hardly any of the big names had stands, and wasnt much on show that really took my fancy as i did plan on buying a V with a Floyd Rose. Played around on the Dean stall (low end models nice, high end 2900 GBP USA Dean new Razorback V model was incredibly disappointing), with some rather nice ESPs, watched the Sikth (http://www.sikth.com/) guitarists do a demo, which was awesome power/extreme metal/mathcore, and caught a bit of Phil Hilborne and Nicko McBrain doing their usual LGS show, which included guest vocals by Bruce Dickinson.

The highlight of the show had to be:

BlackMachine Guitars (http://www.blackmachine.net/)

In particular, one with handwound Nailbomb pickups (http://www.bareknucklepickups.co.uk/ZH-nailbomb.html) that we played through a Diezel amp and cab (http://www.diezel.ch/en/news/download_read.php?mode=listall)

Wow, just wow. Once you've played a luthier made guitar using handmade pickups and through a handbuilt amp, (total cost of setup was roughly 8000 GBP) nothing will be ever be quite the same again.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on May 01, 2007, 11:55:41 AM
I can't emphasize how badass that VK I had was. It was handmade too -- the only handmade amps Fender does anymore (that can be had through retail channels at least). It was one of the first ones they made at that.

But....Like I said. It was too much amp for me.

My pickups are custom as well (Curtis Novak (http://www.curtisnovak.com/pickups/jazzmaster.shtml)). As is my main stompbox (http://www.klon-siberia.com/).


The weak link in the chain is my guitar --- but I meticulously set it up myself. Down to sanding the small moving parts. That counts for something, right?  :-D


Heh. Actually, as far as guitars go, I'd want vintage more than some custom job. If only because the feel of a played in neck is superior to anything else. And can't really be replicated. Besides, guitars back then were made with more personal care too.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Llava on May 01, 2007, 12:02:36 PM
This is why I'm not impressed by the Trans-Siberian Orchestra.  My cousin, by himself in his homemade studio, basically did what it took them a ton more people and money to accomplish.  He's even started playing drums now, damn him.

Christmas Rush, as he's titled it (http://travisaustin.bluedomino.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/thechristmasrush.mp3)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on May 01, 2007, 12:13:58 PM
I haven't heard anything from them except....whatever that song is that gets played on the radio a lot.



Anyhow, he recorded it well. Not to criticize too much or anything, but is he only playing the snare part? Sounds like the rest of the drum kit is a drum machine.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: penfold on May 01, 2007, 01:18:17 PM
Much as I would liike a decent amp, I live in a small flat, so my amp is an old Peavy thing of my bro's that I think is broken and is little more than a speaker for the POD.  More often than not I run guitar into POD into earphones. My next guitar is going to be something spiky, EMGs or Nailbombs, with a Floyd, 12-70s and tuned so low the strings flap in the wind.

Brutal.

 :rock:

Quote
I haven't heard anything from them except....whatever that song is that gets played on the radio a lot.

I think TSO only release Christmas stuff? The website didn't show much else.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on May 01, 2007, 01:29:08 PM
Actually, as far as guitars go, I'd want vintage more than some custom job. If only because the feel of a played in neck is superior to anything else. And can't really be replicated. Besides, guitars back then were made with more personal care too.
I can't imagine a guitar feeling better in my hands than my 61 reissue (except, I guess, a 61 SG but I think Townshend broke them all ;)). I lament the Taylor classical I let slip by me last year, it's literally the only classical I've ever played that didn't feel like a plank (http://invention.smithsonian.org/centerpieces/guitars/images/eg08.jpg). I'm bringing my Alvarez back into shape, the neck was a bit out of whack for a few months there but I have hope for her. She plays pretty damned nice for an acoustic.

I want to get a cheapish acoustic to have here at the office so I can work on some stuff during lunch now and again, I just hate wasting money on cheap guitars that play like shit. Maybe one of those trashy high school classicals or something. I'm still considering a Baby Taylor, but that's too nice to leave sitting at the office imo.

Llava, if I didn't say it last time you posted his stuff, he's Splendid.

Penfold, you'd like my bass, it's EXTREME SPIKY. I'd have to take a picture, can't find any online (it's from the ESP shop in hollyweird).


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on May 01, 2007, 01:45:04 PM
Yeah, that's all I'm saying. A real 61 would be better. Just for the neck alone.

And 61 (and pre) PAF pickups are another story entirely. All of them were custom back then, so Gibson doesn't have any set spec to replicate them in a reissue. Unfortunately, this is what makes them so difficult to get your hands on now. 50's and 60's Gibson pickups alone (not the guitars) sell up to $10,000 a piece.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on May 01, 2007, 07:31:16 PM

I want to get a cheapish acoustic to have here at the office so I can work on some stuff during lunch now and again, I just hate wasting money on cheap guitars that play like shit. Maybe one of those trashy high school classicals or something. I'm still considering a Baby Taylor, but that's too nice to leave sitting at the office imo.

I keep my Baby at the office. Also one of those Nomad electrics with the built-in speakers (the Star Wars limited edition, no less). I always say it sounds like a dying duck.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Llava on May 01, 2007, 10:31:27 PM
I haven't heard anything from them except....whatever that song is that gets played on the radio a lot.



Anyhow, he recorded it well. Not to criticize too much or anything, but is he only playing the snare part? Sounds like the rest of the drum kit is a drum machine.

Nope, he said it's "live acoustic drums" performed by him.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on May 01, 2007, 10:48:19 PM
Ah cool. Just a variance in the snare level I guess. Good job though, I dig it :).


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Der Helm on May 05, 2007, 07:05:38 AM
OK, that other thread did it for me. I am definitely going to buy a new guitar. The problem is, I do not know what to look out for. Almost 15 years ago (wow, that is a really long time *shudder*) bought a guitar and tried to play. Sadly I never took any lessons and the thing I bought was one broken piece of shit, even friends of mine who where really good players at that time found it frustrating to play.

So, any good advice (apart from the "practice, practice, practice part, I know that already :-D ) on what kind of instrument I should look out for ?


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Trippy on May 05, 2007, 07:29:34 AM
OK, that other thread did it for me. I am definitely going to buy a new guitar. The problem is, I do not know what to look out for. Almost 15 years ago (wow, that is a really long time *shudder*) bought a guitar and tried to play. Sadly I never took any lessons and the thing I bought was one broken piece of shit, even friends of mine who where really good players at that time found it frustrating to play.

So, any good advice (apart from the "practice, practice, practice part, I know that already :-D ) on what kind of instrument I should look out for ?
I haven't shopped for a guitar in a long long time and I'm not sure what's available where you are at but my suggestion would be to start with a Fender Standard Stratocaster since those should be relatively easy to find (there are a lot of different Stratocaster models, the Standard is one of the cheaper ones). If you remember some basic barr cords try out the fingerboard and study how it feels playing it (or holding it as the case may be :D) standing up wearing a strap and sitting down, paying special attention to the feel and shape of the back of the fingerboard (the way it curves). That plus the shape/size of your hand is going to dictate in large part how comfortable and easy the guitar will be to play for you.

Then just start comparing the Strat to other guitars in your price range and pick one you like.

Edit: typos


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on May 05, 2007, 12:06:30 PM
Just find a guitar shop with a lot of decent guitars and try each one. You don't have to be able to play them well, just see how each feels in your hands. That's the most important thing, you can always change pickups to get a different sound, but neck/body feel is critical, even in a cheap guitar. If it's awkward to play, you'll be less likely to practice as often.

I planned on getting a strat when I got my sg, so keep an open mind and try 'em all :)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Jimbo on May 05, 2007, 01:09:58 PM
Agree with Sky, I had no idea I would have picked up a Gibson Corvus II back in '85, still have it and just got it re-strung and tuned up...now to find a small practice amp (I could get a mini-stack from Marshall, Carvin, Mesa Boogie, etc...), was thinking of getting an Ibanez or Kramer back then (would have been there budget guitars) and the quality on the Corvus was much better than the cheap imports by Kramer and Ibanez.  I owe it to my 11 year old for having picked it up again, he is jamming on the keyboard and violin and sometimes he strums my guitar, wish I had his ear (he figured out Ode to Joy & Star Spangled Banner on the keyboard by ear).  I used to date a gal that had a beautiful Ovation, would love to have one of those too.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on May 07, 2007, 08:35:31 AM
Whenever I practice major scale stuff (my kryptonite), I end up slipping into the First Noel for some reason. My ears just pick it out every time.

On my thinking about getting a Baby or something for the office...now I'm thinking of maybe getting a strat instead. Maybe a tele. If I can get a decent one on the cheap, anyway. Thing is, the local blues jam (which I'm getting up the fortitude to join in) was in a nice, safe hotel bar for a year. Now it's in the damn ghetto and I'm not bringing a $1500 guitar there! And, of course, I was thinking of playing this wednesday...but they invited the local media to film the event  :|


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Selby on May 07, 2007, 10:43:43 PM
Now it's in the damn ghetto and I'm not bringing a $1500 guitar there!
I love my $60 guitar for this reason.  I'd be very unhappy if someone stole it just because it has such sentimental value, but it sure doesn't look like something that would command high dollar.  I even used to carry it around in an old Target bag back before I managed to locate a case for it.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on May 08, 2007, 09:04:56 AM
I have a cheap guitar (free), but it's set up for slide, the action is wicked high and I keep it in open G. I guess I could bring it and play slide, but I'm trying to learn how to sing the tunes I play on slide, especially I Can't Be Satisfied and Kind Hearted Woman. I posted a version of Satisfied here played on that crappy guitar a while back. I can cover maybe better than half of each, but that just don't cut it in my thinking ;)

Just looked up the jampod thing we tallked about a long time ago (plug your guitar into the ipod and play along)...doesn't work with 5G ipods :(


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on May 14, 2007, 08:54:10 AM
Continuing from the Live Music thread...last week was a great music week. Great blues jam Wednesday and Guy Davis Saturday. Also picked up Andy Aledort's Hendrix DVD. I was a big Hendrix fan when I was a kid, some of the first stuff I played badly on guitar. He does a nice job laying things out if you know what you're about, for beginners it would be real rough. I only intended on learning Little Wing (finally..and in preparation of learning the SRV version, which is one of my guitar milestones I want to hit), but I just started playing along from the beginning and ended up working on Spanish Castle Magic, inserting my own solos (of course!).

Good stuff, ten bones is a pittance for inspiration imo.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on May 14, 2007, 09:04:26 AM
Little Wing is quite a milestone, but was never anything I've tried. I always wanted to get a feel for Jimi's funk oriented riffs though (Ezy Ryder, Crosstown Traffic, and especially Straight Ahead). I love those funky little grooves he was doing later in his life.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Nebu on May 14, 2007, 11:18:23 AM
Thank you for this thread...

I spent a good portion of my weekend listening to some CD's and reminding myself why I need to play my bass more.  My finger tips are still sore from about 8h playing and I'm embarrassed by how much my skills have deteriorated since I used to play professionally.  I have a mid-1970's Fender Jazz that I play through a crappy old crate bass head and a homemade 2x12 enclosure (sold most of my gear 10+ years ago).  I have a few pedals that I like to mess with (phaser, chorus, compressor) but usually opt for a mid-supressed, clean sound. I play mostly with my fingers but will play with a pick when the mood strikes me.  I prefer a softer pick for running and a hard pick when I want attack punch.  Anyway, I thought I'd share the list of CD's with you guys.  It's a mixed bag of styles, but the techniques were a great exercise in humility. 

The Best of Larry Graham and Graham Central Station:  Great funk groove with some great slap techniques in E.

Jaco Pastorius, Self titled:  While I think Jaco was a bit more self-indulgent than musical, songs like Donna Lee are an outstanding example of breaking the typical jazz bass mold. Great harmonics exercises.

Stanley Clarke, School Days: Classic combination of scales, funk, and chording.  One of the kings of bass guitar.

Cream, Disraeli Gears: Jack Bruce and his no nonsense style.  Always fun to emulate.

Rush, Circumstances:  I have a hard enough time trying to play the title track without trying to imagine singing it as well.  Geddy Lee is one bassist that reminds me that I'll never be more than average technically.  I spent a lot of time retraining myself to double pick with my fingers.  I need work.

Yes, Fragile: Christopher Squire... need I say more. The circular scale patterns give me fits on occasion.  I find I can actually play this stuff better when I just stop tring to think about what I'm doing and just let it flow. 

Beatles, Revolver and Sgt. Pepper:  While not all that difficult technically, I always get great pleasure from playing songs like Taxman and A Day in the Life.  I enjoy McCartney's musical style as it's both rhythmic and approachable.

Victor Wooten, Live in America:  This guy is a bit all over the place, but there's no denying his natural talent.  Great practice for hammer, funk, and harmonics work.  If I had 1/10th of this guy's natural ability, I'd die a happy man. 

Primus, They Can't all be zingers: While I love Claypool for his talent, he can get to be a bit repetitive.  His singing grates on me after a while as well, but I think there's a lot to be learned from his style. 

Note: I made this list from memory, so I apologize for any errors. 



Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on May 14, 2007, 11:26:37 AM
McCartney doesn't get enough credit as a bass player imo.


Besides him and Jack Bruce, your tastes confuse me a little (nothing wrong with others though, of course). I always thought you were more into the "no nonsense" Motown type grooves, but it seems like you're more into progressive and virtuosic stuff.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Nebu on May 14, 2007, 11:29:37 AM
Besides him and Jack Bruce, your tastes confuse me a little (nothing wrong with others though, of course). I always thought you were more into the "no nonsense" Motown type grooves, but it seems like you're more into progressive and virtuosic stuff.

Stray, I think I'm confusing in that the music I enjoy listening to is often very different than the music I learn from.  You're right in that I enjoy a more straightforward approach in the music I listen to, but these cd's are a staple for educating myself as a musician.  I don't want to directly emulate these guys, but they do a great deal to help me grow in my playing repertoire. Does that make sense?  I also wanted to offer up this as a list of cd's that have a lot to offer the bass community.  It's a diverse collection of some of the most talented bass players across genres. 

This weekend also had me wishing I still had my early 70's Rick 4001.  I'm going to start browsing eBay to see if I can find another one.  I miss the growl that only a Rick with flatwounds can provide. 


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: penfold on May 14, 2007, 05:27:42 PM
Looking back it seems I didn't even buy a guitar until page 7 of this thread, and now I'm on my fourth, a sign, I suspect, that I could be turning into a collector. The low price of the dollar has driven the US guitar market prices right down, even in the UK, which is why I've managed to pick up a Jackson Custom Shop Soloist.

(http://img120.imagevenue.com/loc418/th_79938_CS_Soloist_21_122_418lo.jpg) (http://img120.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=79938_CS_Soloist_21_122_418lo.jpg)   (http://img14.imagevenue.com/loc1049/th_80032_CS_Soloist_20_122_1049lo.jpg) (http://img14.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=80032_CS_Soloist_20_122_1049lo.jpg)

More or less my dream guitar seeing I love the Chlorine Blue Quilt top that their custom shop do.  The Dimarzio Evolution pickups scream like a b***h, very hot. One of the strings is broken so I will replace them all with 9s and give the fret a clean, and then wrestle with the Floyd for a bit as I learn to string one. I've helped my friend restring his but not quite the same when sitting there alone.  I'll probably take it down the local shop to get the tech to set it up for some heavier strings and lower tunings at a later point, I'm not 100% sure on innotations and if I need extra springs etc and its too expensive to experiment on. 

As my playing abilties are coming on a bit slower than I am capable of (laziness really), it's a bit of a case of a newbie driver buying himself a V8, but I can see this lasting me a very long time.

I have been experimenting with recording over the weekend, playing about with the track in colloboration thread, as well as some of my own metal tunes. Its nice to actually hear things that sound like music and for it to all start gradually coming together.



Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on May 14, 2007, 05:48:53 PM
Really nice. Cool idea to go with maple too.

I've never had a shredder like that myself, but I've always wanted one. Kind of sucks when you get in that mood, and all you've got are Fenders and Gibsons (which is to say, they can wail plenty -- but they can't scream ;).


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on May 15, 2007, 09:14:29 AM
When I was playing bass, my main inspirations were Geezer Butler and Steve Harris. Geez for the bluesy jamming (actually the basis of my current blues led playing, heh...everyone said I played bass like a lead guitar and now I play lead guitar like I played bass...) and Steve for the omg thumping rhythms. Imo there weren't a whole lot of good role models for metal bass players, and I didn't (and mostly still don't) like jazz. Oh, and Cliff Burton of course. Monster fingers and great theory, he is what turned me onto incorporating classical fingerpicking on the bass.

You think you're bummed about your technique? I used to be at the very physical limits of what I could do on the bass. Fast fingers, great chording, a triplet that only Steve Harris could beat...I miss impressing the shit out of every band I met in CA, it was great for the ego. Funny, because I always saw my limitations and don't consider myself braggy, I jsut honestly admitted my skills, but a lot of people thought I had a big ego. Some folks never truly listen to you, though, and hear how much I know I don't know and how much I daily strove to be better, practicing a solid eight hours a day back then when I was in a band (and in music school for a while). Bah. Played a bit last night and tore my fingers up, which is good for my guitar fingerstyle.

You should also add the mighty Duck Dunn to your list. Stax records stuff like Albert King's  Born Under A Bad Sign. There's also a book called What Duck Done that's been on my Amazon wishlist for a while.

Penfold - that's a hot guitar. When I was still playing guitar in my band (metal), I had a strat knockoff loaded with EMGs (the /other/ hot pickup) and a really nice pearl white finish BC Rich Bich with a rosewood fretboard. Unfortunately, I broke my Rich :| and never had money to get a decent guitar after that. The gear I used to play when I was in a band was actually pretty sad, but I feel it taught me how to pull a great sound out of subpar gear. Basically I used a Proco Rat into a clean amp head (Kasino or summat) I got at a hock shop. Later I got a Laney full stack, but I never liked it as much (the speakers, yes, 8x12 celestions).

Our other guitarist had a super hot Ibanez custom he picked up in Hollywood, it had a really cool polychrome purple/blue finish (like those shirts that change color depending on the angle).

I never liked the floating bridges or tremolo bars, I always took 'em off my guitars. I did have a locking nut on both my guitars, those are nice. Floyd Rose...ecch, I've played a few, not my style.

When you get it worked on, be sure to ask the tech if you can look over his shoulder. Ask questions if he doesn't mind. A good guitar is never a bad investment, imo!


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on May 15, 2007, 09:44:43 AM
Nothing but love for trem bars here. I wish I sounded like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASF30_WXL9E). MBV is sex.

I've always dug the more traditional (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Adue3e3blO4) stuff as well. The guy who taught how to play was an old surf guitarist, and that's never left me.


And I freakin' love those harmonic dives (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TpYcA9bSaU&mode=related&search=) Dimebag used to pull off. They're the only reason why I'd want a shredder axe. Otherwise, Jazzmasters and Jags are fine by me.


I like pretty much whatever I can do to warp guitar sounds. Whether it be with different tunings or effects or slides or trem bars.



Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: climbjtree on May 15, 2007, 03:02:03 PM
I'm in the market for an acoustic resonator. If it's old an worn, that's great since I'll be using it for slide guitar. I don't mind buying online since I can be less particular about quality since it'll be set up for slide.

If you guys are selling one, or happen to see one, let me know?

Thanks


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on May 15, 2007, 03:05:03 PM
You can get new ones pretty cheap.

Or relatively cheap. I mean, you're not going find anything good for $50 if that's what you're after. I wouldn't even recommend any of those off brands under $200.


Here's the cheapest Regal (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Regal-RD30-Resonator?sku=518044) for $260.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: climbjtree on May 15, 2007, 03:12:54 PM
Yeah, I'm looking at the 200-300 dollar range. I don't have any experience with guitar makers other than the big names. Do you have any good info on lower end guitar makers? I'm not good enough to take advantage of having a really nice guitar. I sound the same either way.

edit: Also, what about ebaying instruments? Any experience with that?


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on May 15, 2007, 03:25:03 PM
Regal is good (they range from semi-budget to pricey). They're one of the only companies that specializes in them these days (and they've been around since the 30's).

National/Dobro is the more expensive brand. The truly old school resonator maker. They're owned by Gibson now. Don't bother though -- Their cheapest instruments are still in the $1000 range.

Fender is Fender. I've messed with them a bunch in stores. Servicable quality like their acoustics, but nothing to get crazy about. You can't really go wrong with one though.


Off brands are crap like "Rogue" that you see at GC or Musicians Friend. Sometimes another store may have the same exact Korean made guitars under a different brand name. Don't bother. Don't buy electrics, acoustics, or anything else from these companies. You're lucky if they're even set up right when you get them -- or even warped -- and even if they are, they'll magically fall apart in your hands eventually. Don't buy off brand electronics either (even practice amps). They'll crap out on you and sound like shit anyways.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: climbjtree on May 15, 2007, 07:51:03 PM
Thanks Stray. I'll see if I can find a Regal around here. I'm excited to get a resonator because I love the sound they give my blues, and if I develop my slide stuff I'll have a real good time. My biggest problem with slide is an alternating bass line. I've started to play with fingerpicks, but I broke my hand in a motorcycle accident once and my ring finger doesn't cooperate well. With any luck I'll be able to work with a two finger setup.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on May 15, 2007, 08:21:16 PM
I can't do alternating bass lines with slide. A whole lot of pros can't either. Hell, not even Robert Johnson did that (though he'd move to bass parts at the closing of a verse or whatnot, or maybe just do a simple pluck on the open bottom string).

[EDIT] Or maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying.

If you're going for pick heavy slide playing, you're going to have more difficulty alternating through certain types of bass parts. Picking is better for focusing on leads.

If you want a fuller rhythm slide sound with bass parts, drop the pick. Pluck everything.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: climbjtree on May 15, 2007, 08:55:15 PM
I'm tuned to open D, and my typical playing is something like a low D bass line, then work my way up the strings for licks and back down to the D for a bass line. I don't sing at all, so I use the high D(and other strings, but mainly the D) like my vocal and the low D in between. That's how I get around alternating bass.

While I'm not as loud without a pick, I pretty much play with a bare thumb and forefinger.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on May 16, 2007, 07:27:53 AM
Hmm, can't say I give much advice for open D.

I play open D a lot, but rarely do it for sliding (I like open E and G, and even this weird Gm tuning I sort of..made up. I think.).


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: penfold on May 16, 2007, 08:26:16 AM
Nothing but love for trem bars here. I wish I sounded like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASF30_WXL9E). MBV is sex.

I've always dug the more traditional (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Adue3e3blO4) stuff as well. The guy who taught how to play was an old surf guitarist, and that's never left me.


And I freakin' love those harmonic dives (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TpYcA9bSaU&mode=related&search=) Dimebag used to pull off. They're the only reason why I'd want a shredder axe. Otherwise, Jazzmasters and Jags are fine by me.


I like pretty much whatever I can do to warp guitar sounds. Whether it be with different tunings or effects or slides or trem bars.

I'm still upset whenever I see a Dime vid, such a waste.  Tom Morello is also one for making sounds that don't sound like he's playing it on a guitar. The Dragonforce guys have some excellent whammy tricks (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtUiQJc7ZMI) too. I can't get enough of Dragonforce, video game music+ridiculously fast dual lead shredding+tons of tricks=teh fun.
 
Doubt anyone else here is into metal as much as I am, but for that type of music the ESP Ltd range is the best quality and guitars for the 300-900GBP bracket, played 3 or 4 of the models and they've all played and sounded really nice, on the higher end Korean made Ltds you get original brand electronics and hardware too (EMGs, original Floyd's and other bridges, Sperzel tuners etc), something lacking from most other makes at that price. 


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on May 16, 2007, 10:47:12 AM
Hmm, can't say I give much advice for open D.

I play open D a lot, but rarely do it for sliding (I like open E and G, and even this weird Gm tuning I sort of..made up. I think.).
Iirc, open D and E are just a whole step different, same intervals. Open G is the oddball (and the one I play in, because lots of the delta blues guys used it). You could also look into clawhammer banjo style, it only uses thumb + 1, again iirc.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on May 16, 2007, 10:57:42 AM
The voicing just sits with me better in Open E. It's just one of those weird things...

The tension level on my guitars is better set up for the tightness of E as well. It just doesn't feel right sliding in D to me. I play completely different in D.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on May 16, 2007, 03:28:48 PM
My open G guitar is set up wicked high action and like a friggin' high tension wire. Great for sliding, though.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: SnakeCharmer on May 16, 2007, 04:17:12 PM
Guitar-ish question:

I've been wanting to start 'playing' again.  'Playing' being used very loosely.  Problem is, I don't have anyone to noodle or jam around with.  I'm mostly selftaught, and pretty much suck.  But I enjoy(ed) it nonetheless.  Anyway, what I am looking for is something that I can throw a CD in or other media in which music is saved, start it up, and play along with it with my guitar mixed in.  The ghetto version would just be to turn up my stereo to a decent level to match my amp, but that's not really feasible with a 5.5 month old in the house.  Something that mixes the guitar/amp with the music and with a headphone output would be ideal.

Anything like that, or am I SOL?


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on May 16, 2007, 04:26:53 PM
Tascam has this guitar trainer thing I've seen around. I haven't used it though, so I'm not sure if it works well.

http://www.tascam.com/Products/cdgt1mkii.html (http://www.tascam.com/Products/cdgt1mkii.html)

Basically, it's a portable CD player that allows you to "cancel" out guitar sounds on CD's, so you can jam along with songs (I'm really not sure how it accomplishes that, since there aren't multiple tracks for CD audio). Basically, it's karaoke for guitarists.

It also allows you to change tempo and loop parts to help you learn riffs better.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: SnakeCharmer on May 16, 2007, 06:06:58 PM
Very cool, that's exactly what I was looking for - thanks.  Good set of earphones and I'll be living arena rock dreams in my living room and scaring the shit out of the dog.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: climbjtree on May 18, 2007, 11:12:52 AM
And what about keyboards? I was thinking of buying one to use for input to a computer. I'd want a semi-nice once, but I don't know the first thing about them. I'd expect it to have a few different sounds, i.e. piano and synth and strings. I really dont know what I'm looking at as far as keyboards go, so if you've got any experience I'd appreciate it.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on May 18, 2007, 11:29:55 AM
This may seem like a ghetto choice, but you really can't go wrong just starting with a simple Yamaha. They have enough decent, built in instruments to have fun with, as well as MIDI connectivity to expand on that. Most of them usually come with helpful training materials, so you can at least throw down some chords in no time. Just get something with at least 61 keys and you'll be set.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on May 23, 2007, 10:18:53 AM
I dunno, I really want to get a keyboard for the old lady. She used to play, and now she feels I'm pressuring her too much. Hell, I just want someone to jam with, and she only needs three chords to get up and running on the blues, I'm not expecting Billy Powell (Skynyrd, great keyboarder). My motto is 'if you had bought (instrument x) when you first said you wanted to, you'd have been playing for (x years) already!'. The president of our blues society got that one last week when he was pining away about playing bass.

You just gotta jump in feet first and swim to shore, imo. Best way to learn is to start playing.

Anyway, I want to get something with full keys and good weights so it feels like a real piano. Good natural piano sound, maybe a leslie sound, probably wouldn't need any other gadgety stuff. Looks like anything decent is in the $1000+ range.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on May 28, 2007, 03:57:38 PM
Posted another old track. Stretch Williams on lead guitar, me on the acoustic. It's a blues, Stray & Sky. :)

http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/05/27/the-sunday-song-share-some-secrets/


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on May 29, 2007, 09:59:11 AM
Cool on the whole, gets a bit too jazzy for my tastes. I like the kinda darker tone, though. I've been too lax in recording to share :(

I've written a couple nice stubs, though. Good beginnings to songs, seeds. I'm just not used to doing all the fleshing and finishing by myself, curse of having a band full of talented writers. I'd bring in a stub and have a full song an hour later.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on June 17, 2007, 10:12:39 PM
Posted this from gak, maybe 1998. Off analog tape. Tune's still fun though.

http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/06/17/the-sunday-song-son-de-don-con



Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on June 18, 2007, 03:41:38 PM
Oh snappity snap.

We hosted a jazz night with a great local musician last week, my band had recorded our only studio work with him in Jan 91. On a lark (because one of my core beliefs is the closed mouth does not get fed), I asked if he still had our master laying around. Not only did he remember the session, he said he had the tape.

I didn't post it here, because I frankly didn't want to get my hopes up. We had little money and he said he was probably going to record over the master. The last copy I had of that tape was one a fan had given me and went missing (ok, stolen) a solid twelve years ago.

Just got back from the studio, master in hand!  :-o :-D :heart:

Now the problem is getting it off this 8-track reel to digital files so I can remix it to cd and try to look up my old band members' addresses and sent them this incredible find out of the blue.

It's a goddamned good day...hopefully I can find someone to do the transfer...I still can't believe it and I'm looking at the tape.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on June 18, 2007, 03:46:45 PM
Posted this from gak, maybe 1998. Off analog tape. Tune's still fun though.
You say it like it's a bad thing. I liked the sound of it, I favor rough live-sounding recordings. Was always getting into trouble when I was in school for that. Might be my favorite of yours, nice and vibrant, and as you say, rockin'.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Phildo on June 19, 2007, 08:30:38 PM
Just got a new 12-string acoustic by Carlo Robelli.  Sam Ash was giving them away.  Now I just need to learn how to play.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on July 02, 2007, 01:34:12 AM
I was adding a half dozen tunes to my fakebook tonight (prompted by the Paul Simon Gershwin Prize special on PBS) and I thought I would post the song list. I can play anything on this list, to varying degrees of competency depending on how recently I have played it and how often I play it. That's with the book in front of me, of course. No book, and all bets are off. :)

The book was designed after The Fat Man's famous fakebook from his 20-year running jam session in Austin. My song list has almost no overlap with his, however. Basically, it's built for drunken singalongs, campfires, song circles, that sort of thing. You'll notice a lot of the singer-songwriter stuff I like. Euro readers will note that there is actually a recent a-ha song in there (American readers will be dismayed and somewhat boggled). Also, there's an Xmas tunes section at the back, but I didn't bother listing it.

PS, yes, I know, I am missing a ton of Beatles stuff that ought to be in there.

0-9
1952 Vincent Black Lightning - Richard Thompson
3,000 Miles – Ellis Paul
32 Flavors – Ani diFranco

A
Across the Universe – The Beatles
Addicted to Love – Robert Palmer
Africa – Toto
Afterglow - INXS
Against All Odds – Phil Collins
Ain’t No Sunshine – Bill Withers
All Along the Watchtower - Bob Dylan
Alleluia - Dar Williams
Allentown  - Billy Joel
America – Simon & Garfunkel
American Tune – Paul Simon
A Most Peculiar Man – Simon & Garfunkel
And She Was – Talking Heads
Angel From Montgomery – John Prine
Angeline – James McMurtry
Another Folk Song - Uncle Bonsai
Ants Marching – Dave Matthews Band
April Come She Will - Simon and Garfunkel
Are You Happy Now? – Richard Shindell
Are You Out There - Dar Williams
As Close to Flying - Christine Lavin

B
Baby’s Gone Blues – Reckless Kelly
Bad to the Bone – George Thorogood
Bamboleo – Gipsy Kings
The Bare Necessities – Jungle Book movie
Beautiful Wreck – Shawn Mullins
Because the Night – Bruce Springsteen
Beer Run – Todd Snider
Bein' Green – The Muppet Movie
Biko – Peter Gabriel
Billie Jean - Michael Jackson
Billy From The Hills - Greg Brown
Birches - Bill Morrissey
Black Horse and the Cherry Tree – KT Tunstall
Black Sheep – Martin Sexton
Blacktop Train – Ellis Paul
Black Velvet – Alannah Myles
Blister in the Sun - Violent Femmes
Blood and Fire - Indigo Girls
Blow ‘Em Away – Chuck Brodsky
Blowin’ in the Wind - Bob Dylan
Born to Be Wild - Steppenwolf
Boy in the Bubble - Paul Simon
A Boy Named Sue – Johnny Cash
Boys of Summer  - Don Henley
Breakfast at Tiffany's - Deep Blue Something
Bridge Over Troubled Water – Simon & Garfunkel
Broken Wings – Mr. Mister
Brown Eyed Girl – Van Morrison
Burning Down the House – Talking Heads

C
California Dreamin’ - The Mamas and the Papas
Castanets - Alejandro Escovedo
Cat Came Back - Harry S. Miller
Cat Came Back (Muppets version)
Cat’s in the Cradle - Harry Chapin
Center Stage - Indigo Girls
The Chain – Fleetwood Mac
Changed the Locks - Lucinda Williams
Christians and the Pagans - Dar Williams
Chrome Plated Heart - Melissa Etheridge
Cinnamon Girl – Neil Young
Closer to Fine - Indigo Girls
Close to You – The Carpenters
Comes Love – Billie Holiday
Come Together – The Beatles
Coming Up for Air - Patty Larkin
Conversation With a Ghost – Ellis Paul
Copacabana - Barry Manilow
Copperhead Road – Steve Earle
Cradle and All – Ani diFranco
Crime for Crime – Ani diFranco

D
Dancing Queen - ABBA
Dangling Conversation - Simon & Garfunkel
Dear Abby - John Prine
Deep Soul Diver  - disappear fear
Desire – U2
Devil Inside – INXS
Diamond In The Rough - Shawn Colvin
Don't Ask Me Why  - Billy Joel
Down by the River – Neil Young
Downeaster 'Alexa' - Billy Joel
Down Under – Men at Work
Dude (Looks Like A Lady) – Aerosmith

E
Eleanor Rigby – The Beatles
End of the Innocence – Don Henley
Every Little Bit - Patty Griffin
Everybody Hurts- REM
Every Breath You Take – The Police
Eye of the Hurricane - David Wilcox
Eye of the Tiger – Survivor

F
Fast Car - Tracy Chapman
Father and Son - Cat Stevens
February – Dar Williams
Feelin’ Groovy - Simon & Garfunkel
Fields Of Gold - Sting
Flake – Jack Johnson
Flintstones – TV Theme
Follow That Road - Anne Hills
Folsom Prison Blues – Johnny Cash
For Emily, Wherever I May Find Her - Simon and Garfunkel
For my Lover -Tracy Chapman
The Fox – Nickel Creek
Fragile    - Sting
Free Fallin' - Tom Petty

G
Get Right With God – Lucinda Williams
Ghostbusters – Ray Parker Jr
Ghost of a Dog – Edie Brickell & The New Bohemians
Gimme Some Lovin’ – Spencer Davis Group
Give me One Reason - Tracy Chapman
Glory Bound – Martin Sexton
Goin’ Down Judah – Dana Cooper
Good Morning Coffee - Greg Brown
Goodnight Saigon  - Billy Joel
Good Thing – Patty Larkin
Graceland - Paul Simon
Great Day in the Morning – Dana Cooper
Grizzly Bear – Bill Morrissey
Gypsy Woman – Martin Sexton

H
Happy Days – TV Theme
Hard to Handle – Otis Redding
He Said, She Said - Loudon Wainwright III
Hearts and Bones - Paul Simon
Here Comes the Rain Again  - The Eurythmics
Homeward Bound - Simon & Garfunkel
Honesty – Billy Joel
Honky Tonk Women – The Rolling Stones
Horse with No Name - America
Hotel California  - The Eagles
Hound Dog - Jerry Leiber and Mike Stoller
Houses in the Fields  -  John Gorka

I
I Can See Clearly Now – Johnny Nash
I Love Rock ‘N’ Roll – Joan Jett
Imagine – John Lennon
I’m On Fire – Bruce Springsteen
In The Living Years – Mike & the Mechanics
In Your Eyes – Peter Gabriel
I Shot the Sheriff – Bob Marley and the Wailers
Istanbul (Not Constantinople) – They Might Be Giants
I Still Haven’t Found What I’m Looking For - U2
I Told Him That My Dog Wouldn't Run - Patty Larkin
I Walk the Line – Johnny & June Carter Cash
I Wanna Be Sedated  - Ramones
I Want To Hold Your Hand – The Beatles
I Will Survive – Gloria Gaynor
If I Had Known - Greg Brown
Iko Iko
I'm a Lumberjack - Monty Python
I'm Gonna Be (500 Miles) - The Proclaimers
In the Air Tonight - Phil Collins
Iowa (Traveling III) - Dar Williams
It's the End of the World As We Know It - REM

J
Jack and Diane - John Mellencamp
Jet Plane – John Denver
Johnny Rottentail – Amy Ray
The Joker – Steve Miller Band

K
Kathy's Song - Simon and Garfunkel
Keep the Customer Satisfied – Simon & Garfunkel
The Kid – Buddy Mondlock

L
Landslide – Fleetwood Mac
Late in the Evening – Paul Simon
Layla – Eric Clapton
Leave it Like it Is - David Wilcox
Lemon Tree – Peter, Paul & Mary
Let’s Call the Whole Thing Off – Gershwin
Life by the Drop - Stevie Ray Vaughan
Life in a Northern Town  - Dream Academy
Lightning Crashes – Live
Live Free or Die – Bill Morrissey
Logical Song - Supertramp
Long Ride Home - Patty Griffin
Losing My Religion  - REM
Love Keep Us Together – Martin Sexton
Love Shack – B-52’s
Lovesong – The Cure
Luka - Suzanne Vega

M
Makin' Whoopee – Ray Charles
Marlene on the Wall – Suzanne Vega
Me and Julio Down by the Schoolyard - Paul Simon
Meanies – Jim Infantino
Mercedes Benz – Janis Joplin
Message in a Bottle - The Police
Metal Drums – Patty Larkin
The Mickey Mouse Club March – TV Theme
Money for Nothing - Dire Straits
Moon Over Bourbon Street - Sting
Moondance - Van Morrison
Moonshadow - Cat Stevens
Moses – Patty Griffin
Movin' Out - Billy Joel
Movin' Right Along - The Muppet Movie
Muppet Show Theme Song
My Wife Thinks You’re Dead – Junior Brown

N
Need You Tonight – INXS
New York State of Mind - Billy Joel
No Man's Land - Billy Joel
No One Is To Blame – Howard Jones
Not a Pretty Girl – Ani diFranco

O
Ocean -  Dar Williams
Ode to Billie Joe – Bobby Gentry
Old Time Rock ‘n’ Roll – Bob Seger
One of Us – Joan Osborne
Only the Good Die Young - Billy Joel
Orinoco Flow – Enya

P
Peggy-O – Traditional
Perfectly Good Guitar – John Hiatt
Poet Game - Greg Brown
Pretty Vegas – INXS
Pride and Joy - Stevie Ray Vaughan
Prince of Darkness - Indigo Girls
Puttin’ on the Ritz – Irving Berlin
The Rainbow Connection – The Muppets
Ready for the Storm – Dougie McLean
Reasons Why – Nickel Creek
The Remedy – Jason Mraz
Richard Cory - Paul Simon
The Road Goes On Forever – Robert Earl Keen
Robert Johnson - Bill Morrissey
Rock This Town - Stray Cats
Romeo and Juliet - Dire Straits
Rosanna – Toto
Roxanne – The Police
Runnin' Down a Dream - Tom Petty
Rusty Old American Dream - David Wilcox

S
Sad Lisa – Cat Stevens
Saga Begins  - "Weird Al" Yankovic
St. Judy’s Comet – Paul Simon
Santa Ana Winds – Survivor
Scarborough Fair - Simon and Garfunkel
Scenes from an Italian Restaurant – Billy Joel
Scream – Todd McKimmey
Sensitive New Age Guys – Christine Lavin
Shame on You  - Indigo Girls
She’s No Lady – Lyle Lovett
She’s Your Baby Now – Bill Morrissey
Shotgun Down the Avalanche – Shawn Colvin
Should I Stay or Should I Go - The Clash
Shy – Ani diFranco
Sing – Sesame Street
Sledgehammer – Peter Gabriel
Slip Slidin' Away - Paul Simon
Smells Like Teen Spirit - Nirvana
So Far Away  - Dire Straits
Solsbury Hill - Peter Gabriel
Something to Talk About - Bonnie Raitt
Somewhere Over the Rainbow – Judy Garland
Song for a Deck Hand’s Daughter – James McMurtry
Son of a Preacher Man – Dusty Springfield
Space Oddity – David Bowie
Spider-Man – TV Theme
Stand – REM
Stand By Me – Ben E. King
Stayin’ Alive – The Bee Gees
Still Crazy After All These Years - Paul Simon
Strange Fire - Indigo Girls
Stray Cat Strut – The Stray Cats
Strings of Wings – Karen Goldberg
Strong Chemistry - David Wilcox
Sultans of Swing  - Dire Straits
Summer, Highland Falls – Billy Joel
Summer Moved On - a-ha
Summer of ’69 – Bryan Adams
Summertime – George Gershwin
Sweet Dreams (Are Made of This) - The Eurythmics
Sweet Home Alabama – Lynyrd Skynyrd

T
Take Me Home – Phil Collins
Take On Me - A-ha
Talkin’ at the Texaco – James McMurtry
Talkin' Bout A Revolution – Tracy Chapman
Talkin’ Seattle Grunge Rock Blues – Todd Snider
Tangled Up in Blue  - Bob Dylan
Tears in Heaven – Eric Clapton
Tempted – Squeeze
That’s All – Genesis
That’s My Toy – Steve Fisher
That’s Right (You’re Not From Texas) – Lyle Lovett
These Boots Are Made For Walkin’ – Nancy Sinatra
These Cold Fingers – Bill Morrissey
The Way It Is  - Bruce Hornsby and the Range
The Whole Of The Moon – The Waterboys
Thirteen Step Boogie – Martin Sexton
Thriller - Michael Jackson
Time Bomb – Reckless Kelly
Time After Time – Cyndi Lauper
Tom's Diner - Suzanne Vega
Too Long in the Wasteland – James McMurtry
Total Eclipse of the Heart – Bonnie Tyler
Train in the Distance – Paul Simon
Trees – Marty Casey
Twist and Shout – Isley Brothers
Two Princes – Spin Doctors

U
Unknown Legend – Neil Young
Up Until Then - John Gorka

V
Velvet – a-ha
Veronica - Elvis Costello

W
Waiting for the Rain – Bill Morrissey
Wake Up Little Susie – Everly Brothers
Walk of Life  - Dire Straits
Walking in Memphis - Marc Cohn
Waltzing With Bears – Dr. Seuss
Washington Work Song - disappear fear
Way Over Yonder in the Minor Key - Woody Guthrie/Billy Bragg
We Can’t Dance – Genesis
We Didn't Start the Fire - Billy Joel
Welcome Me - Indigo Girls
What a Wonderful World – Louis Armstrong
What I Am – Edie Brickell & The New Bohemians
What I Like About You – The Romantics
What’s Up? – 4 Non Blondes
When Fall Comes to New England  - Cheryl Wheeler
When I Was a Boy - Dar Williams
When Love Comes To Town – U2
When You Love Somebody and They Dick You Around, Doesn't That Really Suck - David Wilcox
Where Have All the Flowers Gone - Pete Seeger
Where the Streets Have No Name - U2
Whip It – Devo
Who Will Save Your Soul? – Jewel
Who Woulda Thunk It? - Greg Brown
Why Aye Man – Mark Knopfler
Wicked Game    - Chris Isaak
Wild Abandon – Damion Schubert
Wild Night – Van Morrison
Wild World - Cat Stevens
With or Without You - U2
The World Ain’t Slowing Down – Ellis Paul
World Falls - Indigo Girls
Wrapped Around Your Finger – The Police

X

Y
YMCA – The Village People
Yoda  - "Weird Al" Yankovic
You Can Call Me Al - Paul Simon
You Can Sleep While I Drive - Melissa Etheridge
You Can't Always Get What You Want - The Rolling Stones
You Never Get What You Want – Patty Griffin
You’re the One That I Want – Grease
You Shook Me All Night Long – AC/DC

Z
Ziggy Stardust – David Bowie



Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on July 02, 2007, 09:45:00 AM
That's a good idea I should lift since I've been jotting tunes in a notebook anyway. I've got a dozen or two songs listed, mostly for lyrics, though I can't sing and play simultaneously on all but a couple (Hootchie Cootchie Man, Mannish Boy, Kind Hearted Woman Blues (ala Thorogood)). I also know the bulk of a couple more tunes without the fake book, Since I've Been Loving You by Zep is my favorite, though song form and I share an uneasy truce. Me likee jammy.

Dickey Betts was on HDNet again, his gig at the R&R hall of fame. I love jamming along with that show as it really stretches my major key jamming and I improve with every show. Then he kicks in Liz Reed in the middle of the set and I just crush it and cry at my crappy major key skills (Liz Reed being a minor key song with extended jams).

+2 SkyPts for Life By The Drop. Should sub Simple Man for Sweet Home Alabama imo. Also, you should learn Melissa by the Allmans (in my fakebook!), good, simple acoustic jam. Lots of good tunes on the list, though!

Hmm. I'm actually inspired. Thanks, Raph.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Righ on July 02, 2007, 10:25:52 AM
You need to make fakebook entries for:

Queen Jane Approximately - Bob Dylan

Radio Radio - Elvis Costello and The Attractions

X-Ray - The Kinks


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on July 02, 2007, 11:32:29 AM
I can't drop Sweet Home Alabama, it's exactly the sort of tune that everyone knows and wants in the fakebook. Heck, I should add Freebird. :P

Righ, none of those three are ones I know really.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on July 02, 2007, 02:13:09 PM
How about Uneasy Rider by Charlie Daniels?  :-D


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Righ on July 03, 2007, 01:31:35 AM
Righ, none of those three are ones I know really.

Okay, how about:

Question - Moody Blues (cool Cdim, G7sus, C)

Red House - everybody, not least Hendrix

Xanadu - Olivia Newton John

Okay, I'm just trying to complete your alphabet. ;)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on July 03, 2007, 08:35:05 AM
Nix on Red House. Decent enough song, but the blues catalog has SO many better tunes, especially for campfirey applications. Go for something pre-war and funny like I'm a Doctor for Women by Champion Jack Dupree or Brown Skin Shuffle by Big Bill Broonzy.

You could also go for Guster's X-Ray Eyes to flesh out X. And add Airport song while you're adding Guster, that's a cool acoustic tune.

This is fun. I forgot to jot down the contents of my nascent fakebook. Inspiration...it comes and goes for me.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on July 03, 2007, 12:53:07 PM
Hmm. So, I imagine that for you guys some of these tunes fill the same role as the Ellis Paul and Greg Brown tunes do for me. But I barely get to slip those in when doing the jam sessions, and I don't really expect otherwise -- because nobody knows them. :)

The popular songs are the ones people know from their teen years, basically. :) Among the Cub Scouts, the little kids all want Weird Al "Saga Begins" and (boggle) "Black Horse and the Cherry Tree." The older parents want Simon & Garfunkel. The younger parents want Talking Heads and Police, unless they are sensitive or liberal types, in which case they also want Simon & Garfunkel. (In general, actually, most everyone wants Simon & Garfunkel or Paul Simon -- talk about cross-generational appeal...)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Nebu on July 03, 2007, 01:37:51 PM
Hmm. So, I imagine that for you guys some of these tunes fill the same role as the Ellis Paul and Greg Brown tunes do for me. But I barely get to slip those in when doing the jam sessions, and I don't really expect otherwise -- because nobody knows them. :)

The popular songs are the ones people know from their teen years, basically. :) Among the Cub Scouts, the little kids all want Weird Al "Saga Begins" and (boggle) "Black Horse and the Cherry Tree." The older parents want Simon & Garfunkel. The younger parents want Talking Heads and Police, unless they are sensitive or lebal types, in which case they also want Simon & Garfunkel. (In general, actually, most everyone wants Simon & Garfunkel or Paul Simon -- talk about cross-generational appeal...)

I think it's a matter of having different lists for different purposes.  I have a set of songs I play for myself (depending on mood and lesson goal) and song lists tailored for my audience.  I don't play out as much as I used to, but have played a large variety of gigs.  If I'm playing a coffee house, I have different solo sets than if I play with a friend for example.  I'll also play very different tunes at a bar gig than I would at a wedding... though I'm sure this is all common sense. 

I like your list though.  It shows a great deal of variety for both you and your audience. 


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on July 03, 2007, 01:57:26 PM
Yeah, sorry. I'm an artist, not a DJ :P In fact, that's what really pissed off the DJ I used to work with, he thought I was so good at it but in the end I couldn't just sit and play music I was so tired of just because someone else loves it. And the metric we always used was to gauge the age of the audience and play stuff from their high school years. Works every time. Maybe not surprisingly, it doesn't work real well for me...

I have made some compromises because I'm building a basic set to play at the blues open mics, but even those are songs I dig anyway. I'd rather play other stuff, but you have to start on the standards and work your way out from their as you get to know some of the guys. It's kind of a rite of passage, if you can rock Hootchie Cootchie Man, you're in. I do think I have a workaround with Early In The Morning by Junior Wells because a newer band likes to play that one.

If I could play and sing simultaneously, all bets would be off. Bringing the metal grit and volume to blues is friggin' awesome, especially when all but a couple of the other singers have that generic white guy blues voice.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Nebu on July 03, 2007, 03:04:44 PM
Yeah, sorry. I'm an artist, not a DJ :P

It's always been a fine line for me, even when I was signed as a recording artist and songwriter.  I look at it like this: If it's my stuff or something that I've personally re-invented, then I'm an artist.  The rest of the time, I'm being paid to entertain and I do my best to deliver.  I don't think I've been an "artist" in public for a long time... I'm mostly still playing just to entertain and have a little fun. 


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on July 03, 2007, 10:04:47 PM
Nebu, I see an acoustic in your iconavatar thingie over there. Since I don't recall what all has been said in this eon-spanning thread... what do you primarily play? And if you were signed, is any of it still out there lurking?


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Nebu on July 04, 2007, 02:03:42 AM
Raph,

I was a musician for 7 years in the early 80's during a VERY active music period in Minneapolis (The Suburbs, Prince, Morris Day and the Time, The Jets, and later Soul Asylum and Husker Du (aka Bob Mould)).  I played with a number of moderately successful bands. To be completely honest, I never considered myself particularly talented as a musician.  I think my greatest skill was in surrounding myself with talent.  Between that and knowing many of the right people (I had been doing guitar repair work in a local guitar store since the age of 12), I got a lot of mileage in the business.  I'll see if I can dig up a few old demo tracks, but the music is painfully dated.

As for the avatar, you should see that the acoustic is actually a bass... it's a pic of Stanley Clarke.  As you may guess, I'm a bass player by trade but actually was a brass player when I studied music in college.  I can play the guitar well enough to get by, but I consider myself too much of a hack to ever call myself a guitarist. 

Edited for late night rambling-ness.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on July 09, 2007, 08:49:08 AM
You guys should be getting used to my extremely long decision-making cycles on musical stuff :) I've been bringing the acoustic into work the last week and a half to test the theory that I'll get in more playing time every day, and it's averaged about a half-hour more, and most of that concise study. Right now it's the Berklee Press Guitar 1 (http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Method-Guitar-DVD-ROM-Berklee/dp/0876390696/) book (and snagging that link...it now ships with a DVD...might have to rebuy and donate my old copy to the library!). My theory is still way too rusty and my reading, too. And sight-reading is pretty much non-existent. I love working on stuff like this because my playing is really starting to open up (FINALLY) a little bit more. Some day I'll consider myself good on guitar ;)

Aaaanyway. The theory I'm testing about an office guitar (also for travel, renfaire, bbqs, etc) is in contemplation of getting a Baby Taylor. Heading out tonight to get one, hopefully they still have a mahogany in stock. New guitar, woohoo!

Continuing the fakebook thread, I'm still inspired to formalize mine, but didn't get to it over the weekend. Sunday I just jammed and played Gothic, Saturday was RenFaire day to watch Cantiga featuring the mighty Charry Garcia (for Charango, not Jerry) from South America on charango. The man is phenomenal, his precise machinegun strumming (fingers only, of course!) always amazes me. When he sees me coming he grins and really starts hamming it up because he knows I dig it. They also have a new guy playing some form of viola, which was really cool. Charry kept goading him to play faster and he did a few times, but he seemed uncomfortable showing off. I told him they should really go for it and get jammy, but the two bandleaders (the harpist and flutist) frown on too much showmanship :( So I went home that night and jammed renfaire tunes, I have a book the band published.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: trotski on July 09, 2007, 03:23:43 PM
I apologize in advance for the n00biness of this post, as it seems there a lot of people who know what they're doing in this thread.

Thanks, in large part to this thread (and GH  :lol:) I decided to pick up the geetar as I've wanted to learn for a long time.  Went yesterday to a music shop and picked up an  Epiphone Special II Les Paul  (http://www.guitarcenter.com/shop/product/buy_epiphone_les_paul_special_ii_electric_guitar?full_sku=100161340). The vintage sunburst in the middle.
It's cheap, I'm learning, and the reviews were good, so i bought it. My father in law has a great Peavey amp, so I just bought a tuner, bag, new strings, and some picks (did I miss anything?)

I'd like to start taking lessons, and I found this site that looks pretty solid for beginners: Guitarnoise (http://Guitarnoise)

Anyway, thanks to all for this thread, I'm excited to get started.

Trot


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Furiously on July 09, 2007, 04:21:24 PM
Hmm. So, I imagine that for you guys some of these tunes fill the same role as the Ellis Paul and Greg Brown tunes do for me. But I barely get to slip those in when doing the jam sessions, and I don't really expect otherwise -- because nobody knows them. :)

The popular songs are the ones people know from their teen years, basically. :) Among the Cub Scouts, the little kids all want Weird Al "Saga Begins" and (boggle) "Black Horse and the Cherry Tree." The older parents want Simon & Garfunkel. The younger parents want Talking Heads and Police, unless they are sensitive or liberal types, in which case they also want Simon & Garfunkel. (In general, actually, most everyone wants Simon & Garfunkel or Paul Simon -- talk about cross-generational appeal...)

Because we don't want to.   :-D

I'd love to hear a recording of that one.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: RhyssaFireheart on July 10, 2007, 12:11:35 AM
This thread, while going completely over my head, is interesting as hell.

That's why I thought of it when I saw an icon on LJ that said "I broke my G string yesterday while finger A minor."  Sorry, I know it's bad.

No, I didn't save the icon, just wrote the the saying down.  I wish I had the time to learn guitar, but my time management skills suck as it is, and trying to keep up with my art/writing is enough of a challenge without adding something else to the mix.

/lurkon



Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on July 10, 2007, 02:17:20 AM
Aaaanyway. The theory I'm testing about an office guitar (also for travel, renfaire, bbqs, etc) is in contemplation of getting a Baby Taylor. Heading out tonight to get one, hopefully they still have a mahogany in stock. New guitar, woohoo!

Let me know how you like it -- I still love mine. Just remember -- treat her lightly, only put light strings and strum gentle, there's no pickguard. Did I ever tell the story of how the back on mine got INVERTED on a plane flight, by a clueless attendant jamming it into a bin? Also remember, she sounds tinny from behind the soundhole, but better to the listener.

Quote
Continuing the fakebook thread, I'm still inspired to formalize mine, but didn't get to it over the weekend.

We had a party at my place on the 4th. Plugged in amps, electrics, plus acoustic and even keyboards for a while. Based on that, the fakebook gained "Knockin' on Heaven's Door," "Black Magic Woman," "Smooth" ... the other guitar player likes Santana and rock, as you can see. He only knew the Hendrix "Watchtower," had never heard the Dylan one. And he knew "Knockin'" via GnR. So I also threw in there "Paradise City" "Welcome to the Jungle" -- huh, a straight swamp blues pretty much, who'da thunk? Sounds... different... on an acoustic -- and "Seet Child O' Mine" which of course works perfectly on acoustic.
[/quote]


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on July 10, 2007, 02:18:26 AM
I apologize in advance for the n00biness of this post, as it seems there a lot of people who know what they're doing in this thread.

Thanks, in large part to this thread (and GH  :lol:) I decided to pick up the geetar as I've wanted to learn for a long time.  Went yesterday to a music shop and picked up an  Epiphone Special II Les Paul  (http://www.guitarcenter.com/shop/product/buy_epiphone_les_paul_special_ii_electric_guitar?full_sku=100161340). The vintage sunburst in the middle.
It's cheap, I'm learning, and the reviews were good, so i bought it. My father in law has a great Peavey amp, so I just bought a tuner, bag, new strings, and some picks (did I miss anything?)

I'd like to start taking lessons, and I found this site that looks pretty solid for beginners: Guitarnoise (http://Guitarnoise)

Anyway, thanks to all for this thread, I'm excited to get started.

Trot

Welcome to the dark side. Your fingers will hurt. Work up to the calluses. Or just play for two hours a day obsessively, that will push thru the pain. :)

Never took lessons, so I can't speak to that...


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on July 10, 2007, 02:19:19 AM
Hmm. So, I imagine that for you guys some of these tunes fill the same role as the Ellis Paul and Greg Brown tunes do for me. But I barely get to slip those in when doing the jam sessions, and I don't really expect otherwise -- because nobody knows them. :)

The popular songs are the ones people know from their teen years, basically. :) Among the Cub Scouts, the little kids all want Weird Al "Saga Begins" and (boggle) "Black Horse and the Cherry Tree." The older parents want Simon & Garfunkel. The younger parents want Talking Heads and Police, unless they are sensitive or liberal types, in which case they also want Simon & Garfunkel. (In general, actually, most everyone wants Simon & Garfunkel or Paul Simon -- talk about cross-generational appeal...)

Because we don't want to.   :-D

I'd love to hear a recording of that one.

Either you are quoting Greg Brown's "Who Woulda Thunk It" or I don't know which song you are referring to.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on July 10, 2007, 09:53:49 AM
Woohoo! Conversation in the guitar thread always makes me happy.

Trotsky: Woohoo! Good for you. I highly encourage everyone to pick up a musical instrument, it makes life richer. You get to stretch out creativity and also lizard brain stuff, plus some math thrown in. That Epi is way better than the guitar I started with, also way better than the guitar I re-started with a few years back (which I still use for slide, I set the action way high). Look back over the thread, I've made a few book recommendations. My first theory book (from high school) was this one (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0882842250). I recommend Fretboard Logic (http://www.amazon.com/Fretboard-Logic-SE-Reasoning-Arpeggios/dp/0962477060), I wish someone had turned me onto that twenty years ago! I still struggle with theory and fretboard knowledge. There's also a box set (http://www.amazon.com/Fretboard-Logic-Volumes-Videos-Combined/dp/1893884058) I wish I had known about before I bought I & II.

The main thing is to also take some time to play along with recordings you enjoy. Try to pick out what they're doing, spend time really critically listening and picking things apart. As long as you're playing music you enjoy, you'll have fun.

Rhyssa: Woohoo, lurker! At least you have a creative outlet in life, that's great. Music is wonderful, but I also had to make that decision when I was in high school (I was an art/science major who wanted to be DaVinci). I chose music because I sucked at art. Little did I know that apparently doesn't matter so much :|

Raph: Woohoo pt nauseum. Got a mahogany Baby, it's great. A lot louder than I expected, and I definitely have to change up my style so I won't break it. I still think I will at some point, it really makes me aware of how hard I play and how much I lean into the guitar. But it's cool. Got it for less than the going internet price, which was also nice. Of course, been shopping at the local store for decades, soo....The recording guy there didn't know where to find someone to do a transfer of my 1/2" 8-track master from 91. Bah. I believe you have mentioned your Baby inversion, probably a year ago when I was first considering one.

Black Magic Woman. Bah, Santana. I HIGHLY recommend this Fleetwood Mac (http://www.amazon.com/Live-Boston-Vol-Fleetwood-Mac/dp/B000007P3N) album. Peter Green wrote Black Magic Woman and it's a great version without the Oyo Como Va crap :P I like Santana, but he's no Peter Green. That album is in my top ten live albums, which is saying something since I have a LOT of live albums (I prefer live albums over studio). I was also surprised to find they wrote 'Green Manalishi', which I know via an early 80s Judas Priest album (British Steel, iirc). I was into early Priest, Sad Wings of Destiny was a great album. Anyway. Forget Rhiannon, THIS album is the real Mac ;) They were originally playing with John Mayall, so there's yer blues.

I know 'Knockin' via a local bar band. I still dislike that song because they played an extended version every night when I was a teenager. At one local open mic (which I haven't been to in ages, we mostly go to the blues jam now) there is a kid who plays 'Watchtower' every week...the Dave Matthews version, sung like Dave, he acts like Dave with the little foot twisty thing...it's annoying imo. "Jungle" as a slow swamp blues sounds like a great idea! *yoink*


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: trotski on July 11, 2007, 12:21:01 PM
Raph: My fingers are already sore as hell.  Two days of learning chords and twisting my fingers into pretzels. I can already tell this is an addiction, all I've done since I got the damn thing is think about what I'm going to work on when I get home. 

Sky: Thanks for the recommendations!  I think I'll order the Fretboard Logic set at some point.  What's your opinion on tab vs. reading music? I see people in other forums go back and forth on it all the time.  But I've seen musicians in interviews talk about never learning to read music in their life.  Just wondering what the value of learning to read music is for a casual player like me, who will probably never make it pro, sadly  :roll:. (Apologies if you covered this earlier in the thread, haven't quite made it through all 15 pages yet.)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Furiously on July 11, 2007, 12:32:32 PM

Because we don't want to.   :-D

I'd love to hear a recording of that one.

Either you are quoting Greg Brown's "Who Woulda Thunk It" or I don't know which song you are referring to.

Yes I am and you did.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on July 11, 2007, 01:16:58 PM
Sky: Thanks for the recommendations!  I think I'll order the Fretboard Logic set at some point.  What's your opinion on tab vs. reading music? I see people in other forums go back and forth on it all the time.  But I've seen musicians in interviews talk about never learning to read music in their life.  Just wondering what the value of learning to read music is for a casual player like me, who will probably never make it pro, sadly  :roll:. (Apologies if you covered this earlier in the thread, haven't quite made it through all 15 pages yet.)
Heh. I think I did bring this up a while ago, because I've struggled with traditional standard notation for decades now. I was good at theory, but applied theory, so I lost most of it. Now I'm working on it again, with the Berklee book I mentioned a few posts ago. That's also a great book. I'll probably never be able to sight-read complex stuff, but at least I want a working knowledge to pick apart things that aren't in tab.

A lot of musicians scorn tab as a crutch, and to a degree it is because they don't account for rhythymic notation well. But I was reading a book on 15th-16th century guitar (and viola) and tablature was the way music was originally laid out for those instruments. I find tab nice because it can lay out where to finger some things, but it's only as good as the transcriber, I've found a lot who have transcribed things quite wrong after watching the artist live.

So, I really don't have a good opinion on it ;) Tab is probably good if you're just fooling around, most musicians I know can't read standard notation. But if you start with tab, it'll be that much harder to pick up standard notation down the line if you want to. So...it's up to you :) You might want to check out that Berklee book at least and get a foundation in written notation, though it's not a theory book, it's meant to have an instructor but you could make do with a 'how to read music' book along side it. It also ramps up in difficulty pretty quick, I'm just repeating the first chapter over and over for now (easy to play for me, but tough to sight-read, calling out the notes as I play).


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on July 13, 2007, 01:34:45 AM

Because we don't want to.   :-D

I'd love to hear a recording of that one.

Either you are quoting Greg Brown's "Who Woulda Thunk It" or I don't know which song you are referring to.

Yes I am and you did.

I approve most mightily.

The chording is actually really simple, mostly just D and A. He does venture into alternate tunings ("Poet Game" is in open G for example), but many of his songs are standard tuning.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on July 13, 2007, 01:37:11 AM
The guitar has different timbres for the same note. 5 on the low E is not the same tone as open on the A string. Hence tab lets you see the actual timbres as well as the pitch. Really well done tab (like, professionally laid out, with stems) can give as much rhythmic accuracy as standard notation can.

That said, I recommend you learn as many notations as you can. Rhythm notation (I can read two of these), standard notation, and tab. :) It just doesn't hurt to learn it. My standard notation is really really rusty now, though, I can't sight-read anymore.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on July 13, 2007, 09:44:24 AM
I mostly learn by ear, using any notation systems as a crutch to learn chords (I'm poor at picking out complex chords by ear) or very fast passages.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: penfold on July 13, 2007, 03:27:33 PM
Think I've played the Jackson 3 times since I bought it. Oops. It's because I'm spending hours on my acoustic, having found I can all of a sudden pick with more than just 1 finger or my thumb. Kinda clicked one day and opened up so much for me.

These two feature heavily on my playlists at the moment.

Rodrigo Y Gabriela (http://video.google.com/videosearch?um=1&tab=wv&client=opera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&rls=en&q=Rodrigo%20y%20Gabriela)

They headlined one of the stages at Glastonbury this year, reminded me to look them up having heard the name before somewhere else.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on July 14, 2007, 01:29:11 PM
Rodrigo Y Gabriela are fantastic.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: trotski on July 18, 2007, 01:57:20 PM
So after approximately a week and half, the fingers are starting to toughen up.  They definitely don't hurt as bad, after practicing, as they did last week. I've gotten chords A, E & D down.  Now I'm working on a couple songs that only utilize those three chords. Johnny B. Goode and Walk of Life.  So far, my chord progessions suck holy ass.  I play the chord -> look at my fingers -> change chords -> play chord...repeat. So it sounds completely disjointed.  I'm trying to memorize hand positions so I can make more fluid transitions.

Anyway, it's a lot of fun. I look forward to practicing everyday, and get pissed when I can't.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on July 18, 2007, 03:32:45 PM
You're 3/5ths of the way to knowing all the chords. Well, the basic chord shapes anyway. C, A, G, E, D. I'm still suggesting that Fretboard Logic book I mentioned above, I wish I'd had it early on, it really puts things into context on the guitar fretboard. Once you start connecting chords, the scales follow, learn the variations and blam, fretboard mastery. Well, if blam = a significant amount of time, work and practice :P


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: trotski on July 18, 2007, 03:47:01 PM
Hehe.  Ahh, yes! Thanks for the reminder.  Just ordered the  Fretboard Logic box set. Amazon Prime gogogogogo!


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on July 19, 2007, 02:16:55 AM
You silly lead players, always pushing towards that... how about developing right hand technique before tackling scales? Sheesh.

One that would force you to learn rapid switches is U2's "Desire." The whole song is D, A, E, A, E. Yes, that "thump, thump, thump, thump-thump" riff is just that.

That said, I'd seriously work on right hand. Make sure you get the habit of both upstrokes and downstrokes -- it actually took me months to get the hang of that. Learn to appreggiate. Learn how to flatpick alternating bass. Learn how to hit only some strings and not all. Figure out how to do palm muting, and how to get the different timbres from the strings based on where you strum. Learn how to play SLOWLY, to milk a note for emotion.

A cheesy tune that forces some of this stuff -- "Clementine," believe it or not. If you can do the tune's melody just strumming, you will have learned a lot -- playing the melody as you strum can only be done if you can control your right hand. The whole song is just D and A -- you should be able to pick it out on single strings, then learn how to weave it into the strumming.

D
In a canyon, in a cavern, excavating for a
A
mine, lived a miner, 49er, and his daughter Clemen
D
tine



Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on July 19, 2007, 09:53:47 AM
Well, of course you need to work the right hand, too. I always tend to take that for granted because it's what I worked on first and it's probably my strong point, both fingerpicking and plectrum, though I still consider it pretty weak compared to an old-timer from the '20s fingerpicking a rag or early blues. Like the complex bass lines, rhythms and melody line going over the top. It's hard for me to remember the early learning stuff because I was usually hammered while playing and it was almost 24 years ago now (!!). I should really be a lot better than I am :P

Fwiw, I don't consider myself a lead player at all, though that would also be a strength of mine if you gauge it by popular music standards. I just try to play good melodic and/or rhythmic stuff without worrying about the classification much ;) I want to get more chording into my leads and I already incorporate a lot of single-note lines into my rhythyms (people say I play guitar like a bass, I say I play both like stringed instruments!)

Anyway, to add to what Raph said, make sure you not only get good strumming, focus on alternate picking and look into different plectrum styles (when you start getting into more advanced stuff like string-skipping). Learning it right the first time will save you years of unlearning bad habits. I was self-taught for the first couple years and learned some real bad habits, when I picked up the bass I started the hard way and gained some great skills much faster.

The most important thing is to put in the practice time. It takes a metric shit-ton of practice to get good, and there are no shortcuts.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: trotski on July 20, 2007, 11:31:43 AM
You silly lead players, always pushing towards that... how about developing right hand technique before tackling scales? Sheesh.

One that would force you to learn rapid switches is U2's "Desire." The whole song is D, A, E, A, E. Yes, that "thump, thump, thump, thump-thump" riff is just that.

That said, I'd seriously work on right hand. Make sure you get the habit of both upstrokes and downstrokes -- it actually took me months to get the hang of that. Learn to appreggiate. Learn how to flatpick alternating bass. Learn how to hit only some strings and not all. Figure out how to do palm muting, and how to get the different timbres from the strings based on where you strum. Learn how to play SLOWLY, to milk a note for emotion.

A cheesy tune that forces some of this stuff -- "Clementine," believe it or not. If you can do the tune's melody just strumming, you will have learned a lot -- playing the melody as you strum can only be done if you can control your right hand. The whole song is just D and A -- you should be able to pick it out on single strings, then learn how to weave it into the strumming.

D
In a canyon, in a cavern, excavating for a
A
mine, lived a miner, 49er, and his daughter Clemen
D
tine



Cool, thanks Raph.  Any other good exercises you'd recommend for the right hand?


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on July 22, 2007, 03:19:20 AM

Cool, thanks Raph.  Any other good exercises you'd recommend for the right hand?

Well, it's deadly dull, but just plain old alternating bass exercises.

If you want to liven it up, you could try doing a blues walking bass, like what SRV uses in "Pride and Joy". You'll need the B chord to do an E blues, though, and the B and F are probably your bugaboos at this stage.

A tune that I learned a lot of right hand from was Indigo Girls, "Blood and Fire." It uses a couple of common things you will never stop using: the Dsus-D-D9 pattern and the Asus and A2 chords. And it's also just D, A, and G. It's nice for right hand because it's a somewhat delicate song that works best with varied pacing and with flat or fingerpicking with some sensitivity to it. Pay attention to dynamics.

If G is a stretch for you, you can use the "cheat G" -- don't try to fret the two low strings, only hold down the high E at the 3rd fret. Then be sure to only strum the four highest strings.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on July 23, 2007, 09:02:48 AM
The closed A-form B chord is one I still don't like. For blues, I use the B7 that goes x21202. It looks more complex than x24442 but for me it's way easier to finger, my hand just naturally slides into it. Sliding it up one fret instead of going back to the IV chord is a nice little frill. But for basic blues, I'd just go for E 022100 (maybe adding in  the seventh as an exercise 022130), A7 x02020, and the aforementioned B7.

That also sets you up for the triads I mostly use, like x212xx, a nice sliding form based on the A-string root. Also works on the E-string root as 212xxx (which would be F#7). Taking that to the D-string root, you can get a good feel for the B-string jump because it changes to xx213x (E7) and finally the G-string-based version is xxx233 (A7).

Playing this along with a pentatonic box can get you up and running with the blues pretty quick (it's my current rut :P). But it does open up all keys to you, which is good for jamming with others (darn keyboard players and horns imo).

Think the open form G is bad, wait until you play with the closed G-form. I mostly use the closed E-form and then fragments of everything else, except maybe a closed A-form minor. I use some 9th chords for T-Bone Walker-style stuff or maybe funk like James Brown, but I don't think I use sus chords. I'm a pretty basic player. You mentioned that SRV tune, I have a tough time with it as SRV played it because of the half-beat upper register strums. Those drive me nuts.

Anyway, I don't really remember where I got my strumming practice from. I can tell you that being in a metal band gave me incredible right-hand chops. I still can't down-pick (all downs, no ups) like I used to back then, it's intense. But between alternate picking and legato (hammer-ons and pull-offs), I can live with it. Playing a tune like Metallica's Master of Puppets with all downpicking is a good primer, we used to play that almost double speed with downpicking, I still get turned on listening to the one old tape I still have.

The best advice I can give (which Raph will chime in and mock me, I'm sure :P) is to listen to the whole band. I play guitar, bass and drums, and sing a bit. But I really like to do critical listening where I'll listen to a track several times and try to figure out each instrument. The bass line will give you the solid melody or at least the rhythmic pulses, the keyboardist or horns will give you interesting lead ideas. But for me, the key is the drums. I probably should've been a drummer, I key in on them almost completely. So I'd say most of my right-hand is locked in there, I try to listen for their changes and fills and follow that. The good side effect is that if you and the drummer fuck up a change, it sounds like everyone else were the ones to screw up!

Finally, Raph mentioned palm-muting. It can't be stressed how important that is. It's a primary means of string control and is crucial to rhythym guitar. Spend some time working on that and also making sure you dampen any unwanted notes (with either hand). Also try playing your rhythyms with various levels of palm-muting, you can really get more attack by playing hard but keeping it under control by muting it simultaneously.

/ramble


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: trotski on July 25, 2007, 12:53:17 PM
You guys fucking rule.  I'm incorporating a lot of your suggested elements into my practice routine, hopefully can speed up my learning curve a bit.

I received the Fretboard Logic box set yesterday and started reading through volume I.  It seems a little over my head at this point, but I'm trying to figure it out. They go straight into barre chords and different positions, so that will take a little getttin used to, It looks very, very solid though.

Also, my father-in-law, who has played guitar since he was kid, restrung my guitar with my new strings.  Holy crap what a difference it makes.  They're the Elixir nanoweb strings, and they are incredibly light and soooooo much easier to fret. I was shocked. Thanks guys, I can't tell you how much fun I'm having, and thanks for all the advice.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on July 25, 2007, 01:27:01 PM
Light elixir strings are definitely a good way to start. I prefer old rusty medium/thick strings ;) Ok, maybe not actually rusty, but I basically don't change strings until they break, and I almost never break a string. I've yet to change the strings on my acoustic that's two or three years old, or on my SG. I did change the strings on my bass a few years ago, because I had to break it down for a thorough cleaning from sitting in the basement for a few years, oiled down the fretboard and it's been fine since. I also use a pretty thick pick (http://www.jimdunlop.com/index.php?page=products/pip&id=53&pmh=products/picks) (1.5mm) when I actually use a pick. Even using the 1.5mm, I wear them down like crazy and they lose the point and become rounded after six months to a year.

I like the control of the heavier picks, a holdover from playing metal and having a real tight rhythm played very hard without the flap-flap of lighter picks. Also used to break medium picks like crazy and used a bronze pick for a while. I have to always carry one on me because almost nobody uses picks that thick, so I can't really borrow someone's.

On Fretboard Logic: it gets pretty steep, pretty quick. But it's going to be great as soon as you start moving beyond the basic open positions, and everything in it is based on those open positions, just barred versions. Don't sweat it if it's over your head, just pop back in every now and again and give it a whirl. At some point the info will start to gel. I'm also really digging the Berklee book (http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Method-Guitar-DVD-ROM-Berklee/dp/0876390696/) I mentioned before, it's really starting to open some things up for me, like actually trying to pay attention to the actual notes I'm playing rather than just doing forms and patterns. That's my #1 priority right now, and trust me...it ain't easy. I set that book aside to work on some other stuff because it was overloading my poor brain, it gets steep quick. So it happens to us old-timers, as well!

Anyway, glad we could help out some. Playing an instrument is one of the very best parts of life imo. Don't give up hope, you'll always think you sound pretty bad, I've been playing over twenty years and think I mostly suck. You'll always be falling into ruts and feel like you're just playing the same old crap over and over. Stick with it and you'll always get better and have fun with it.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Amp on July 25, 2007, 10:16:24 PM
Sky!!...ya punkass!


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Selby on July 25, 2007, 11:23:28 PM
I'm a big fan of old worn strings.  As long as they hold a tune, they work for me.  My ugly guitar has 10 year old strings on it and I have played it so much that I have worn nubs into the strings on all of them where the fret lines are.  That guitar is to the point where I can sit down and play it hard for a few hours and only the bottom 3 strings are out of tune (not that going out of tune all of the time is that great of a thing).

Regarding picks, I like solid picks too.  I used to play with a quarter when I was first starting out because I was too poor to buy picks (combined with the music store guys being really big dicks and me being an antisocial prick).  It was fun and it's still something I do when I am trying to make it sound a certain way.  The ridges were nifty for sliding and striking the strings, I have absolutely zero professional training so I learned to improvise when I was bored.  I hardly advocate doing that ;-)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on July 26, 2007, 12:37:42 AM
Elixir strings rule.

My finger oils turn even those green, though, and I wear off the nanoweb coating. :P

One thing that is a subtlety you'll just have to learn is that light and medium strings play pretty differently once you get to a certain point. I play mediums on my main acoustic.

Tonally, I prefer strings that are past the jangly phase. Eventually, I do find them to go dead, but it takes like a couple of years. I only do a full restring (and thorough cleaning/fretboard oiling) maybe once a year these days.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on July 26, 2007, 08:55:12 AM
Sky!!...ya punkass!
Amp!!! Don't be such a stranger, mang.

Elixirs: I hate them because I destroy the coating and it's godawful. I still have an old set on my crappy guitar (the one set up for slide). I really need to change them. The bridge end are totally shredded, the coating is all over the place.

Selby, I find that newer strings are always going out of tune on me, I bend a LOT. More Buddy Guy than Albert King, but a 2-step bend will throw most new strings out of tune, even with a good stretching. Takes so long to get them broken in properly. My older strings are like rocks, I can go nuts for an hour and have them still in tune. Of course, if you have a locking nut system, most of those troubles go away, but I don't want to deface my SG with one.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Nebu on July 26, 2007, 02:40:51 PM
I came across a neat lesson on YouTube and thought I'd share.  It's pretty fundamental theory, but it has been a nice exercise for a bassist like myself trying to learn to become a better guitar player. 

Jazz guitar - walking bass lesson. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grK43Poye1U)

Edit: sorry for the topic change mid stream.  All of this "learning to play" stuff has gotten me motivated to practice the 6 string more  8-)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on July 26, 2007, 03:00:09 PM
Bass lines are one of my big concerns playing acoustic guitar. It's funny playing blues, because I'm getting better at the guitar parts, but I don't know a lot of the sweet patterns for stuff like the sixth scale, so my bass lines are just real rote patterns. I've actually been playing bass the last couple nights, I found an old bass instruction book from 73 with some cool blues and funk stuff in it.

My main problem is splitting the melodies, playing a bass line independent of the melody line is damned tough for me. I've been getting a little better, I can mostly do a John Lee Hooker basic thing, as long as I don't try getting too clever.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on July 31, 2007, 09:21:54 AM
Just saw George Thorogood. Had great seats, so I got to see a lot of his technique. It's almost ALL right hand. I was amazed, listening to his albums, how much of it was just barre slide stuff, with his right hand contributing all but a few slurs. Really inspired me to explore that style of playing (rather than a more Duane Allman-style full-on slide attack) and I feel my playing got a lot better through a very simple visualization. Worth the price of admission right there (though it was a good show!).

Combine Thorogood's almost non-moving (out of position, so when he's on the V chord, he sits at the 7th fret; I he's open, sliding down from the 3rd fret, and using the 12th for accents; etc) and Duane's more fluid moving style and I might be getting onto something here.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on July 31, 2007, 03:37:18 PM
Paul Simon's stuff also frequently works this way. If you do a straight guitar-only version of something like "Graceland" or "Late in the Evening" you'll find that all those complicated horn shouts or lead riffs are actually just straight picking patterns on top of barre chords.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on August 01, 2007, 11:05:51 AM
I tend to like books, working at a library and whatnot, also the slow pace of digestion. I love critical listening, that's where you get all the feel and timing for changes imo (if you don't regularly gig, of course). But there's much to be said for seeing great players do their thing live and copping their chops :)

I've got a few great DVDs, but seeing someone live without the cameraman screwing around with things is unbeatable. I am so lucky to have seen the incomparable Buddy Guy three times this year. Normally we get to see the Allmans once or twice a year, but we're missing them this year. But I'll see Rossington, Setzer, Gibbons, Bonamassa, still some great shows left this year.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on August 02, 2007, 09:52:25 AM
I was in the mood to play some bass last night. Sucks how rusty I am on it, I should really practice more on it. I used to be pretty good once. Anyway, I grabbed the camera and took a vid of anesthesia, a cliff burton solo (posting about it in wibble made me want to play it when I got home). I forgot some parts, and it's wicked sloppy, but what the heck. Not like I'm in it for the money :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fm6KMVEUDt0

Playing my old ESP custom bass through a crappy Peavey Mark III head into a Dean Markley 1x15" cab loaded with an old EVMB 400W speaker. Sounds like crap, that bass has needed new pickups for ages. In a few spots you can still hear some of my killer triplet technique. Super rusty now, I used to play The Trooper by Iron Maiden several times just to warm it up before playing.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Nebu on August 02, 2007, 11:26:42 AM
Thanks for posting the vid Sky, I really enjoyed it.  You use a nice combination of finger and thumb use on the chording.  I also didn't think the sound was bad at all.  Watching that really showed me the guitar influence and it is obvious that you've been playing your guitar a lot lately.  I hope that you're brave enough to post more stuff in the future.  I always love to watch videos like that as it gives me the chance to learn from the technique of others.  I'll have to work on something here and maybe post it as well.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on August 02, 2007, 02:28:58 PM
Thanks! I hate how rusty it is, so it's tough for me to post things. The bane of having been really good a really long time ago and slowly working my way back into things without the benefit of the 8 hours of practice every day that got me good in the first place.

The right hand stuff is all from high school classical fingerpicked guitar class, though I've of course expanded it from there. It is what allowed me to jump over to bass in the first place imo. There's actually a lot of different techniques going on in that piece, which is why it was a practice staple for me. Two and three string arpeggios for the left hand, and the gamut for the right: alternate fingerpicking, 'chord' fingering (the thing with the thumb), drone picking, a few nail-strummed accents and my patented super triplets.

The last part is just some blues hacking, I don't know blues bass very well because I've learned all that on guitar and keep looking for the upper strings to make chord shapes :P


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: trotski on August 02, 2007, 05:59:37 PM
Sky --  Great vid. You sounded just fine to me!  Definitely throw a few more vids up for us n00bs who aspire to be great  :-D


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Furiously on August 03, 2007, 12:41:08 PM
You're almost making me want to go out and buy a guitar, even though I suck and have not played one in 15 years.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on August 03, 2007, 02:07:10 PM
Ok, I don't feel bad for how shitty mine came out. I just spent twenty minutes watching some awful versions of that song on youtube :) Best one was cello, the guy's not the greatest cello player and has a tough time with some of the arpeggiated chording, but it's really cool nonetheless.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOugi_inC58

Probably the best version, based on the live Cliff 'Em All version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9puftcB0g0


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: trotski on August 13, 2007, 03:02:16 PM
I was on vacation for the last week, so I brought the guitar with me.  As luck would have it, my father-in-law who is a pretty damn good guitar player, brought his as well. As a side note, it's been cool to see him pick it up again since I bought my guitar and started learning.  He's busted his out and started playing more regularly. So he's been showing chords and songs, etc.

So he showed me Whole Lotta Love, and god it has been fun to play.  It's a pretty easy song to get the hang of, until the solo, obv.  But I've got a pretty good grasp on it, and it's been fun playing along with the recording.  My repotoire now 85% of Whole Lotta Love, Horse with No Name, and a walking bass line. W00t, look out world.

A question on an interesting technique the FIL showed me.  He showed me this two-string harmonic style (that apparently a lot of metal guys use?) on the E and A strings to play songs.  I was surprised how cool it is, however I googletarded it, and couldn't find anything really associated with it. I'd like to learn some songs in this style, if i can find some.  He played a couple, including WLL. Anyway, if you know anything about this, I'd like to learn more.

OT: I also started reading The Beatles by Bob Spitz...it's FANTASTIC if you haven't read it yet.  Very long, but really in depth not only on the band, but how they all learned their chosen instruments, etc. 



Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on August 13, 2007, 03:26:52 PM
You need to define "two string harmonic style" a little bit better. At a guess, you probably mean power chords, but it's also possible you mean dropped-D tuning.

Power chords: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_chord

Basically, it's a barre chord where you only play the 1 and the 5, leaving out the note that makes the chord major or minor. Distorted guitars often don't sound good with major or minor, but they sound very nice with fifths and fourths.

Dropped-D tuning is often used to accomplish power chords, because it makes the fingering even easier. Basically, tune your low E string down to D, and now strumming open on the three lowest strings is a D power chord.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dropped_d_tuning






Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: trotski on August 13, 2007, 03:47:12 PM
Ah, ok.  So, hopefully this explains it a little better: For WLL, he would play the 3rd fret on the low E, and the 5th fret on the A, together - then move up to the 5th fret on the low E, and the 7th fret on A.  Does that make more sense?

From the wikipedias you sent, I think power chords are the correct answer.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Selby on August 13, 2007, 07:22:21 PM
Distorted guitars often don't sound good with major or minor, but they sound very nice with fifths and fourths.
So says you ;-)  I prefer anything but "power" chords just because it is too easy and I always get the feeling I've played that song before even when it is a new one...  I can definitely understand what you mean though.

I have no problem with D tuning, but it seems like every "heavy" band in the last 10 years has done that and run up and down the fret board with 1 finger all the while the guitar magazines continually spooge themselves over how "original" and "great" they are and the kids run out to emulate them.  Gee.  If only they had applied all of that talent from 1 finger into the other 4, imagine how much of a living legend they could have been!


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on August 14, 2007, 09:16:01 AM
Har, power chords. Cheap, effective, but pretty generic and lacking in flavor. Stock in tons of songs because they're easy to play and pretty neutral-sounding, so you can stick them in songs you don't know well and not sound too bad. Stock metal riffing.

I do disagree with Raph, though, a lil bit. On one hand, you haven't lived as a guitarist until you've slammed a power chord through a full stack with tons of distortion. That's a form of sonic bliss. But you can get much more complex, I used to use all kinds of triads to make music more interesting. It's all situational, sometimes it'd fit, sometimes it'd muddy things up and you'd need to use a power chord or (when we were a two guitar band) play in harmony to define a chord.

Drop-D tuning has it's place. However, the total misuse of it over the past ten years makes me pretty much spurn it. I'm with Selby, I sat in with some metal guys when I was first getting back into playing and it's completely retarded their playing. They could play all this complex stuff...with one finger. I just downtuned the whole thing to D (standard tuning) and got compliments on how old-school I was  :roll: Playing actual chords and knowing my scales (somewhat, anyway) put me on a level far above those one-finger cases. Sad, really.

On a personal front, making more progress singing and playing. Working on some repertoire for a blues set at some point. I could probably get out and hamfist some stuff, I'm definitely making some (slow) progress, but I don't want to be 'that guy'. In the past I was always one of the better musicians in the room because I had so much time to practice and was so focused. So being anything less than really good is tough for me :) I still haven't synced up "I Can't Be Satisfied", one of my favorites. Generally I need something with a call & response style vocal/guitar, or an echoed line. Luckily, there's a ton of blues out there just like that.

Right now my main practice tunes are "Baby Please Don't Go" by Muddy, "Catfish Blues" (in whatever form, right now "Rolling Stone" by Muddy), "Long Distance Call" by Muddy. I like Muddy Waters a lot. He's played with so many great guitarists most people have never heard of. Going to stretch out into some Junior Wells stuff, been listening to a lot of the stuff he did with Buddy Guy. I'll be putting in a version of "She's Nineteen Years Old" Buddy-style. A standard for the harp players at the jam is "Early in the Morning" by Junior, so that'll go into rotation at some point. Oh yeah, also the standards "Mannish Boy" and "Hootchie Cootchie Man", though for Hootchie I'm not real happy with the hybrid version (guitar/vocal). I do a really powerful vocal on that and it really lacks when I'm splitting my attention. Might have to relegate the guitar to a solo in that one.

Anyway, making progress is a good thing. I try to get a little better every week, learn some new trick or at least jam over a couple new songs. Been playing around with ye olde T-Bone Walker chords, always a nice addition to the bag.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on August 15, 2007, 01:35:12 AM
Sheesh, one side comment and all you electric players jump on me...

Distorted guitars often don't sound good with major and minor because distortion by its nature cycles the tone in and out of tune. Depending on the exact distortion settings, you can get the "beating waves" going, get a nice harmony, or you can just get stuff that sounds out of tune. It depends heavily on what processing you are applying to the guitar signal. Further, because the fourth/fifth wavelength relationship is a very strong one, whereas the major and minor relationships are less so, depending on how you have your pickups balanced, it can actually be hard for an amplified and distorted signal to carry much of the major or minor if there's fourths or fifths in the mix as well -- it can get drowned out.

Simple proof test of the above is to pluck perfect fourths, fifths, major thirds, and minor thirds, on a distorted guitar while trying a variety of pedals or settings. You'll quickly hear how the tone goes sour on the thirds in many cases.

But you guys KNOW that, I am sure. Never met an electric player who didn't know it. And the best players USE it. So quit picking on me!

Me, I'm not a metal guy, so I don't care how metal has misused the dropped D. :) In the acoustic world, dropped-D is a vital technique mostly used for specific effects, and it's the gateway to stuff like double-dropped D and then DADGAD. Yes, you can do simplistic stuff with it, but it's also the underpinning of a lot of fingerstyle. There's a variety of acoustic players who like to drop further; David Wilcox for example has been known to drop to C quite a lot, and Peter Mulvey actually drops all the way to an A sometimes.

I will confess to occasionally having plugged in and distorted on a dropped D. It's absurdly easy to suddenly sound like a shredder that way. :P I mean, picture some of the acoustic riffs I have posted here before in metal style... they're often in dropped or alternate tunings, and they'd be exactly the sort of fast showoffy thing that those one-finger players find impressive...


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Nebu on August 15, 2007, 01:46:47 AM
Distorted guitars often don't sound good with major and minor because distortion by its nature cycles the tone in and out of tune.

Using an O-scope, most distortion mearly square-waves the sound.  Changing pitch would involve changing the frequency.  Now, some distortion pedals also "color" the sound, but that is beyond distortion loved by us purists. 


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on August 15, 2007, 02:20:29 AM
Square waving is enough to cause what I am talking about. 3rds are "unstable" relationships, unlike 4th/5th/8ve. When you map the two waveforms against one another on an o-scope, as you say, they have to line up pretty closely to sound right. I'm not talking about distortion of ONE note, I'm talking about distorting the two together causing the 3rd as a whole to sound out of tune.

Er, again though, you know this. :P


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on August 15, 2007, 02:24:24 AM
Since right-hand technique came up before, here's something I posted a little while ago:

http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/07/08/the-sunday-song-variations-on-longitude/

This is flatpicked, not fingerpicked.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on August 15, 2007, 10:10:47 AM
I had a great teacher in jr high school who let us play with all these waveform generators. The kids who enjoyed it, she actually took the time to explain how they all worked and how real sounds reflected the basic waveforms. That also helped me a lot in science class, and understanding things in general. Waveforms are incredibly important, can't believe more kids aren't taught about them!

Raph, I'm not jumping on you. As I said, you do have to be careful how you use them, but even a diad is an awesome twist on a plain old power chord progression. I was in a gigging metal band for almost ten years, I do know wherof I speak. But then, I did a lot of chording on the bass (not 6-string), another 'taboo' because it supposedly muddied the sound. Well, again, experience differs with common knowledge. I certainly don't consider myself 'the best', but we sure abused the hell out of any sounds we could get into, and we pretty much were self-taught through our formative years.

Thirds being unstable is a beautiful thing, welcome to the blues ;) Use and abuse that unstable interval, it builds tension and resolves nicely.

Anyway, I should throw together an example. Problem is, I don't have a metal setup anymore, to really get the proper sound you need an overdriven tube stack on 11, or at least a Proco Rat pedal. Maybe I can do something with the little crappy practice setup I have. See the multiple posts in this thread about needing a new amp.

Not to put up this crappy old clip (http://youtube.com/watch?v=3iacZDoXaVQ) again, but at 1:15 I start using powerchords (by way of demonstration for trotski), though I pretty much use the 1-5-8, throwing the octave on the top. To get a really fat chord you can also barre the 5th underneath, so a D fat powerchord would be 5577xx. Also, by using the 1-5-8 habitually, you can drop the 5th from the middle of it and just do the octave for a cool sound. Start replacing single solo lines with it and you're on the road to Wes Montgomery land. Anyway, back to my crappy vid, at 1:26 I replace the C powerchord (the progression is Bm C D, I forget which mode I'm in, B mixo? B tonality with notes from the Em scale) with a C diad (C-E, 1-3) and it makes a nice flavor.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: trotski on August 16, 2007, 01:09:38 PM
Thanks for the demo Sky, very cool.  I guess I was pretty ignorant as to the proliferation of power chords, there are a metric fuck ton of songs that just utilize them. (Although good for me, since you don't really need any talent to play them, and I have none, so it kinda works out.) Since i've been playing, i can definitely tell my ear has gotten better at picking out notes and chords, i listen much closer than I use to.

I'm a huge Muddy fan; I definitely love me some blues.  LZ, Muddy, Clapton, Jack White, B.B., I love all of it.  I saw John Lee Hooker in Seattle about 3 years before he died, it was amazing.  He had three little hotties help him from backstage to his chair. Once he sat down, he launched right into 'Boom Boom'. Getting to see him play was definitely an experience.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Selby on August 16, 2007, 08:53:38 PM
Anyway, I should throw together an example. Problem is, I don't have a metal setup anymore, to really get the proper sound you need an overdriven tube stack on 11, or at least a Proco Rat pedal. Maybe I can do something with the little crappy practice setup I have. See the multiple posts in this thread about needing a new amp.
That was what I thought back when I was first learning how to play.  Then I realized that by adjusting the knobs on the guitar and how I was playing the strings helped quite a bit.  I could make it sound nasty and distorted to hell on my shitty guitar and broken $50 Fender practice amp which excited me (I still haven't found anyone who plays a similar setup, probably because no one would want to sound so shitty yet still play technically decent).  Sure, a good metal setup will really cover up flaws and shitty playing, but I like to think that a good guitarist can make even the ugliest and cheapest guitar still sound good or exciting.  It's almost too easy on my new Marshall setup honestly, and playing this thick heavy 15lb guitar is easier\more fun than my new lightweight one.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on August 17, 2007, 08:40:28 AM
Well, I can get a decent sound from a lot of things. My specialty back in the day was playing with shitty equipment because that's all we could afford. We just bought (mostly, heh) LOTS of it. It was all about being loud, loud, loud, fast and heavy. The crappy guitar clip is recorded through one of my first post-band purchases, my peavey mark III (crap) head and a decent Dean Markley 1x15" loaded with a 400W EV full-range, using my Boss GT6 for the effects. Meh, it works, but I've never found any distortion as satisfyingly chunky as a true full stack + rat pedal.

Lately I've been playing dry into my Pignose, which can get real burpy if you're not careful, and seems to need a 60 cycle filter desperately. But I make it sound good. It really is mostly in the fingers and tone shaping at the guitar controls, another reason I love the SG.

Was just up buying a couple knick-knacks at the music store (tuner + boom stand), eyed some amps. I'd still really like the fender super reverb (http://www.fender.com/products//search.php?partno=0217600000), but 4x10 would probably be too much for the venue I'd most likely start at (blues open mic). Talking with the local guru, he's suggesting the deluxe reverb (http://www.fender.com/products//search.php?partno=0217400000) with 1x12", and it does look like a nice amp, and they have both in stock for me to mess around with.  I was also toying with the idea of the vibroverb (http://www.fender.com/products//search.php?partno=8140000000), because I've been playing through a 1x15" setup for so long, and I like the sound of it.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Ixxit on August 17, 2007, 12:02:52 PM
Hey all,

Fairly new here at F13, but finally took a peek outside the MMO forum and was really happy to find this thread, which at some point I will have to read in its entirety.

I started playing electric back in 1984 at 18 after taking accordian lessons since I was a kid, and played an practiced seriously up until 95 when I met the woman of my dreams, got married and had a family etc.  Ended up selling my Marshal half stack,  my guitars (Gibson Les Paul and a Squier Strat) and other guitar related gear.  Of course I regretted it, but always intended to pick it up again.

A couple of years ago, under the guise of  an impending mid life crisis, I talked to my wife about picking up some gear again (and hey I slyly told her it would be much cheaper than buying a Harley) to which she was very supportive.

At this stage of my life, I can't really justify spending thousands of dollars on gear,  but I did manage to pick up a few choice items.

At a pawn shop I picked up a Univox Les Paul copy, which was made in Japan in the '70's for are mere $150 bucks.  The picture below is not my exact guitar (the finish is different) and the original pickups were replaced with some really muddy Di Marzio pups (I think they are one of their super distortion models) that I am not really fond of and will replace them eventually.

(http://www.univox.org/pics/guitars/deluxe_sunburst.jpg)

I also got a Squier Showmaster which has a Floyd Royse on it, and Duncan pups - one humbucker and one single coil (well designed by Seymour Duncan anyway), which sound great, although the single coil is a litty noisy.  I picked this up from my local guitar shop for half price ($200.00) when they were discontinuing the model)

http://www.soundsmusical.com/popup_prod_largeImage.asp?prodID=6650


My amp is a 90's Peavey Ultra 212 which is 60 watt all tube combo, which sounds awesome and is extremely versatile and I picked up used for $500.00.  The great thing is that the tubes are self biasing, so you all you need to do is pop the new ones in.

For effects all I have  Crybaby Wah, and a Boss Super Overdrive which I use to add a touch of compression  and a little hoodoo to the signal.

Nice warm and brown sounding setup. 

As far as musical style I like play dirty blues, straight up rock,  80's and 90's metal (and hey it's fun to goof around with this NU-metal stuff), and am starting to experiment with heavy funk.

Sky I like you you mention how  technique really effects and shapes the final sound.  My amp is usually  on one gain setting for pretty much all the music I play, and basically I roll the mids up and down; higher for blues and rock, and lower for metal and thrash as well as utilizing the guitar volume.   If I want a modern  heavy chunky percussive sound, I play pysically harder, and mute with the palm.

This ties in with what Raph was saying about certain chordal tonalities and inversions sounding bad with distortion.  A lot of guitariest lay on the gain at the pedal or amp level which over compresses and completely muddies up the sound.  I use a lot inversions and partial chords  in my playing which sound great (major, minor, 7th, 9th) even with a heavy sound.

Like Sky said, I wish I had the time to noodle like I did when I was a teen. My technique was extremely developed back then.  I still manage to practice a several times a week, and with those restrictions it's hard to be disciplined to practice purely on building up pure technique. 

I spend most of my time writing (coming up with riffs and song parts)  instead of practicing multi octave 64th note runs up and down the neck, which in a way is a breath of fresh air as it allows me to concentrate on melody and  rhythm which is what music is all about (well for middle aged guitarists who don't have 8 hours a day to practice anyway  :lol:).

Luckily one of my multi-talented  (bass, guitar, killer drums) co-workers has a Cubase based  home studio. We have started getting  together bi weekly to  arrange and record.  He has been a boon to me personaly as he has the discipline (something I am lacking) to help me arrange that  ginormous riff box in my head into what I hope will be some  decent tunes. Hopefully in about a month or so we'll have a track or two that I can shoot by guys if you are interested.

Well I have babbled on too much, hope to follow and contribute more in this thread in the future.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on August 17, 2007, 01:24:20 PM
Ah, cool. Another guitarist in the f13 crowd. Glad to hear you got back into things, as a musician friend of mine once said "You never quit, you just set it aside while life takes over for a while." When I bought my baby taylor, it really expanded my playtime every week because I leave it in the office all week and play on the second half of my lunch hour. An extra two and a half hours a week is incredible, especially as I'm more focused when I'm at work with limited time to play. That's why my repertoire is getting better and I've been able to focus on T-Bone chording. Started messing with some of his lead work, which jazzily intertwines the mixo mode into normal pentatonic blues (though I hate modern jazz, this is more in the big band sense).

Finally starting to feel a bit more comfortable with acoustic blues, working the thumb but trying not to stress about getting it better. Basically bringing a lot more joy to my workday, every day. Glad I made that change and the baby is a superb sounding little guitar, a real joy to play.

Funny to watch people walk past my little balcony off my office and look around for where the guitarist is.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Ixxit on August 17, 2007, 01:50:10 PM
Quote
When I bought my baby taylor, it really expanded my playtime every week because I leave it in the office all week and play on the second half of my lunch hour. An extra two and a half hours a week is incredible, especially as I'm more focused when I'm at work with limited time to play

You're lucky you can do that at work.  Being a night  owl affords me extra time when the wife and kids are sleeping, which I usually play video games or watch movies.  I'm so sick of MMO's at point (none currently installed) that a few extra hours have opened up for practicing, and it's quite easy to combine watching movies and playing guitar so there's quite a few more hours.

Now that I am actively writing and recording with my  friend , I have a purpose to my playing which before was sometimes just noodling for my own pleasure and a for a limited audience (friends wife and kids).  Now I have looming recording dates which kinds of kicks me in the ass to get busy.

Eventually I'd like to learn to play slide, classical  and acoustic fingerstyle but at this point of my life, considering my social and family obligations, I'm sticking with getting back in sync with what I do best, and am familiar with.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Furiously on August 19, 2007, 09:49:13 PM
Did you hear about the drummer that locked his keys in the car? It took him three hours to get his bass player out.

How do you know when a drummer is at the door? The knocking keeps getting faster.

What do you do when you answer the door? Pay him for the pizza.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on August 19, 2007, 10:56:12 PM
Posted another tune... even tho nobody commented on the last one. :)

http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/08/19/he-sunday-song-she-walked-acoustic-version/


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Furiously on August 19, 2007, 11:07:23 PM
I broke down and ordered one. I went into the local guitar center and it was just a little un-inviting somehow.

Heard someone playing Hallelujah in SL and I think it might be the most covered song of all time...
http://myoldkyhome.blogspot.com/2006/05/hallelujah.html (http://myoldkyhome.blogspot.com/2006/05/hallelujah.html)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on August 20, 2007, 10:02:31 AM
I like that tune Raph. I subscribe to the theory that any good song can be done acoustically and still be great. Hell, we used to take some of our songs and throw them into different genres, like country. We used to have a practice room over a bookmaking joint (gotta love the eye-talians) and they'd knock a few bucks off our rent if we played lounge music, so we'd just play our songs in a lounge style. It was a good musical workout, and you learned what songs transcended the metal format.
Quote
Yah, I know, the bass is muddy as hell, I mixed the backing vocals a little too low, and the electric guitar part sux. But hey, it’s very much a tongue-in-cheek song anyway. Who cares? It’s supposed to sound like everyone is just hanging out jamming
Now you sound like me! I play muddy (ooh punny), messy and poorly mixed. I don't think music should be perfect, but I can't help being an apologist because people get so uptight about things.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Trippy on August 20, 2007, 10:10:08 AM
Posted another tune... even tho nobody commented on the last one. :)

http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/08/19/he-sunday-song-she-walked-acoustic-version/
Reminds me a bit of Paul Simon.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Furiously on August 20, 2007, 12:01:33 PM
Anybody watched the PBS special on Les Paul I think it's called chasing sound? Looked decent from what I caught.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on August 21, 2007, 12:52:08 AM
Posted another tune... even tho nobody commented on the last one. :)

http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/08/19/he-sunday-song-she-walked-acoustic-version/
Reminds me a bit of Paul Simon.


I'll take that as a compliment. :)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Trippy on August 21, 2007, 12:53:57 AM
Yes, though the singing needs some work :-D


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on September 02, 2007, 02:41:29 PM
Thread's about to slip off the page, so... thought I'd mention i am doing a birthday party/jam at my place. We'll bust out of the fakebook (see prior posts). Maybe I'll record some of it. :)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Signe on September 02, 2007, 04:25:45 PM
Was that an invitation?  For all of us?  I hope there's refreshments!  (http://smiley.onegreatguy.net/eat.gif)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on September 09, 2007, 07:22:29 PM
New tune: http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/09/09/the-sunday-song-carry-the-message/


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on September 17, 2007, 02:44:34 PM
Some good stuff with your voice in that one. You should cut loose more like that. Nice solo, too. I love the spanishy sound.

I finally started my fake book! Took some time while in VT to scratch out some pages, mostly Muddy stuff at this point. Really trying to work on singing and playing simultaneously. It's so damned tough, I get so completely wrapped up in what I'm playing I can't divide out attention to sing. But making some progress. Always making some progress, that's the key. Been playing a little bass lately, too. I sometimes forget how damned good I used to be ;)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on September 21, 2007, 10:56:36 AM
This is what I'm talkin' 'bout. http://youtube.com/watch?v=n3bp4ohqugI Bukka White just kicking it out, that's the basic bass strum I'd love to have. WIsh I hadn't left my guitar home today, I'm inspired.

Speaking of inspired, when I got home from the ZZ Top show last night I cut a quick version of Blue Jean Blues (with only one verse, heh). Got home, cracked a nice Hefeweizen and laid it down in one take, as I always do. Well, three takes, rhythym (which I don't know, I faked it), lyric (again, just one and an improv based on the improv Billy did when he forgot the words) and a lead. I've got to find the mic doohickey that connects it to a stand, I just bought a boom stand but can't put my mic on it, heh. So it's miked awfully, I just laid it on the coffee table. It gets a bit percussive on the lead, I never realized how much I pop strings when I play fingerstyle. Recorded on the Baby. I'll bounce it down to stereo and bring it in next week to upload from work.

Maybe I'll even throw down something else, I did a little sketch of Gimme Back My Wig that I'm not sure what I want to do with, maybe do it as High Heeled Sneakers instead. Maybe as a mashup in true old blues-style, just pick verses at random as they come to me. Based on a Buddy Guy 12-string part from an album he did with Junior Wells.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: SnakeCharmer on October 15, 2007, 11:28:45 PM
/kicks to the top....

Anyway, I'm in the market for a starter guitar / amp.  Something to cut my teeth on again.  I'm partial to the traditional strat body/neck.  Nothing too loud as far as amp is concerned, as I'll mostly be playing through headphones.  Minimal effects needed at this point.  Possibly a chorus and/or overdrive pedal down the road.

If it matters:  Musical tastes run from Ozzy to Sister Hazel to Screamin' Cheetah Wheelies to Dirks Bentley to Kenny Chesney to early ACDC to Van Halen to Los Lonely Boys to...well...You name it.  Bluesy rock to metal to country.

I'd rather patronize a local musician for lessons, but my schedule and such make it a bit difficult.  Honest answer needed here:  How much could one actually learn from websites such as http://www.guitartricks.com/?  I'm guessing not much since there's noone on the other side to say "You're doing it wrong".





Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on October 16, 2007, 12:00:29 AM
You're as good as your own desire to learn. I wouldn't worry too much about actual lessons for now. Do you know basic chords already and shit? Just get physically comfortable moving around again then. Then get the chords or tab of a song you haven't learned to refresh yourself with. After you're confident enough that you've gotten the basic chord progression down, fill it in with the more complex parts you think you couldn't learn -- testing your limits is where the real education and fun of playing starts popping up (and it's not a bad thing if you do have limits either, so don't get too frustrated).


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Trippy on October 16, 2007, 12:07:10 AM
I'd rather patronize a local musician for lessons, but my schedule and such make it a bit difficult.  Honest answer needed here:  How much could one actually learn from websites such as http://www.guitartricks.com/?  I'm guessing not much since there's noone on the other side to say "You're doing it wrong".
Do you have a muscial background? I.e. did your parents make you learn an instrument as a kid? You can certainly learn how to play without taking formal lessons but it helps if you have at least some muscial training.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on October 16, 2007, 03:23:16 AM
I'm guessing not much since there's noone on the other side to say "You're doing it wrong".


I need to address somethin here again:

Who cares if you're doing it wrong. About the only thing that's going to be truly grating and "wrong" is when you don't have a sense of rhythm. Otherwise, fuck it. Just get a good foundation and then play with your balls. I put forth that every musician that has moved people, guitarists and otherwise, ended up doing just that. This goes for anyone from John Cage to John Coltrane to Jerry Lee Lewis to Joey Ramone. Anyone who takes it too seriously and geeks out too much ends up just churning out elevator dogshit.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Nebu on October 16, 2007, 09:45:33 AM
I agree with Stray.  Too technical begins to sound sterile (Satriani, Malmsteen, etc). I could listen to Clapton, Page, or Gilmour for hours. 

Learn enough theory to feel comfortable with experimentation.  Then just mess with sounds, tones, and effects until you find yourself in the instrument.  Play from the heart


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: SnakeCharmer on October 16, 2007, 10:01:10 AM
Do you know basic chords already and shit?

Yes.  Basic chords, barre chords, that sort of thing.  I vaguely remember some basic arpeggio (sp?) progressions for practice.

Do you have a muscial background? I.e. did your parents make you learn an instrument as a kid? You can certainly learn how to play without taking formal lessons but it helps if you have at least some muscial training.

Played around with a guitar for a couple years back off and on when I was about 15-19 years old.  Never very good, and my repetoire consisted of songs off the basic G, A, C, and D chords.  I've got a decent ear, nothing special. 

Goddamn, that was a long time ago....

Who cares if you're doing it wrong. About the only thing that's going to be truly grating and "wrong" is when you don't have a sense of rhythm.

*Decent* sense of rhythm.  Not great, but not awful.  Something I'll definately have to work on.



So, is there such a thing as an 'easy' guitar to play? I've got decent sized hands, fingers are a little bit on the short side (I've got big palms, shortish fingers), both a little bit mangled from more than my share of bar fights.  I can't touch my thumb to my pinky on my left hand.  I think I've broken just about every metacarple at some point, and my right wrist is beyond fucked. :(


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Nebu on October 16, 2007, 10:10:15 AM
So, is there such a thing as an 'easy' guitar to play?

My advice as a bass player that plays some guitar: 

1) Go to a larger guitar store and try a number of guitars.  The key is to find a neck that feels good to your hand.  Some like fender, some like gibson, etc.  It's about the width and the radius. 

2) Spend a little extra money and have the guitar set up by a professional.  Moderate to low action will make playing feel much easier. 

Alternatively, buying a cheap acoustic guitar has helped my electric playing a ton.  If I can bang out a riff on acoustic, it's about 1000 times easier to play on a well set up electric.  The guitar players here may have some better advice, but that's what has helped me the most as a bassist.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: CharlieMopps on October 16, 2007, 10:10:49 AM
I've been playing metal for about a decade. If you want "Low" get a baritone guitar. A 7 string just lets you downtune and keep the high E. No point unless you need it for a particular solo... in which case I'd recommend a Baritone guitar and a whammy bar pedal. Just pitch up when you need the higher octave. You are less likely to notice the pitch shift in the solo than in the rythem sections.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on October 16, 2007, 11:11:28 AM
By "easy to play", it depends on how you play.

The flatter the radius, the easier single note shredding becomes. The more convex the radius, the easier chords and barre chords become.

-

You'll find the flattest necks on metal-oriented guitars (like Jackson and Ibanez) or spanish/classical acoustics.

More convex fretboards are on traditional Fender and Gibson electrics, dreadnought and jumbo acoustics and the like. Fenders stand out though, as the back of the neck shape on them is thinner compared to a Gibson or an acoustic. Gibsons generally feel like baseball bats (with the exception for some of the earlier SG's). Also, most of those metalhead guitars I mentioned above follow the Fender design as far as back-of-neck feel goes. Classical guitars have a very fat feel to them however, even moreso than other acoustics -- but their fretboards are flat.

-

So that's two factors -- back of the neck shape/grip, and fretboard radius. Only you can know what you'd prefer though, but just check out 1) a Strat  2) a Les Paul  3) a Jackson 4) a Classical, and see what you like. Those four pretty much cover the variations out there.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Montague on October 16, 2007, 12:24:13 PM
I'm in the same boat as Snake. I used to play when I was young (about 20 years ago) and went to the local guitar store last night and bought a cheap $200 guitar that felt good on the hands, plus a Marshall practice amp for another $100.

Took it home and began busting out power chords and the few licks I could remember. Man, technology has sure changed. Back in the day the only little amps I could get were dinky Gorillas with horrible sound that needed a Boss pedal to get any sort of sustain. That little 10-watt Marshall though kicks ass and the sound is great, had a lot of fun getting back into it. I just need to get my callouses back, my fingers are kinda raw this morning.  :rock:


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: SnakeCharmer on October 16, 2007, 12:44:36 PM
By "easy to play", it depends on how you play.

The flatter the radius, the easier single note shredding becomes. The more convex the radius, the easier chords and barre chords become.

-

You'll find the flattest necks on metal-oriented guitars (like Jackson and Ibanez) or spanish/classical acoustics.

More convex fretboards are on traditional Fender and Gibson electrics, dreadnought and jumbo acoustics and the like. Fenders stand out though, as the back of the neck shape on them is thinner compared to a Gibson or an acoustic. Gibsons generally feel like baseball bats (with the exception for some of the earlier SG's). Also, most of those metalhead guitars I mentioned above follow the Fender design as far as back-of-neck feel goes. Classical guitars have a very fat feel to them however, even moreso than other acoustics -- but their fretboards are flat.

-

So that's two factors -- back of the neck shape/grip, and fretboard radius. Only you can know what you'd prefer though, but just check out 1) a Strat  2) a Les Paul  3) a Jackson 4) a Classical, and see what you like. Those four pretty much cover the variations out there.

That's the info I was looking for.  Thanks.

It sounds like a Fender is in the middle between the two extremes?



Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on October 16, 2007, 12:54:22 PM
Yep.

-------

ALTHOUGH it should be mentioned that there are minor variations in Fender neck contour too. Heh.

There's the V shape (mostly found on 50's and 50's remake models), which come in both hard and soft V's... Really the best for like barre work and stuff.

The U shape (found in 70's stuff), which is closest to the Gibson necks.

And the C shape (60's, and just about all modern designs).

The feel is just like the letters would suggest. Triangular, chunky and roundish, and oval respectively.


Don't mean to complicate things though! Just about any Fender you pick up will be a C, and most of them have the same radius (slight convex).


[EDIT] It's funny how I suggest not to geek out too much about theory and such, but here I am being a dork with all of this techy shit. ;)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on October 16, 2007, 09:27:58 PM
Some obvious advice...

Lighter strings = easier to play. Some electric players like heavy strings for the sake of the tone. If you are just getting back into it, don't go that route.

The only big "learn wrong" thing you can do is end up with really bad hand position on your left hand. But cramps will quickly tell you if that is the case. If it feels painful to do stuff, you are probably doing it wrong (excluding fingertip blisters from lack of calluses, and stretching when you first do barres).


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Trippy on October 16, 2007, 09:32:07 PM
The only big "learn wrong" thing you can do is end up with really bad hand position on your left hand. But cramps will quickly tell you if that is the case. If it feels painful to do stuff, you are probably doing it wrong (excluding fingertip blisters from lack of calluses, and stretching when you first do barres).
Given the problems with his left hand it may still hurt when he is doing it "right" so he'll probably just have to improvise some of that technique.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on October 16, 2007, 09:34:57 PM
Hmm, good point. May also do his hand some good, though. "Wraparound" barres may be tough (fretting the low strings with the thumb). My hands are too small to do those anyway.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Selby on October 16, 2007, 11:13:40 PM
Totally stress going to the guitar shop and trying out different styles.  They may look similar, but so many of them play differently.  I have huge hands with ginormously long fingers (almost more suitable for a bass) and finding a guitar that fits right and feels good is not the easiest thing to do.  Quite a few of them feel too crowded for the fingers to hit individual notes easily on the higher fret positions.  If I ever lose or break my guitar it is going to be a sad sad day to try and replace it despite being a cheap piece of crap (you get attached to them after many years of playing).

And yeah, even 10 years ago it was almost impossible to buy a starter guitar package for less than $500 (the cheapest "new" guitars in my town were $595 and they sounded like ass).  Nowadays you can get a decent sounding one for practice for less than half that.  It used to be that pawn shops were the only game in town for guitars that were cheap (but often didn't work on all of the pickups, like mine) but now you can go pick up a cheap made in Mexico or Indonesia guitar that looks like the real deal and plays similarly as the $2500+ ones.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on October 17, 2007, 02:51:05 AM
The larger the nut width, the better it's gonna feel in bigger hands. Standard size for Fender and Gibson (or derivatives) electrics is 43mm. Most dreadnoughts, as well as many PRS and some ESP electrics are 45mm, with some classicals and 12 strings going up to 50mm.

I'm weird, I guess. I'm a tall guy with fairly big hands, but I prefer the more narrow neck on my Jazzmaster -- 41mm (my fingers are skinny though, so maybe it makes sense).

Anyways, look into PRS (if you can afford it!!).


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Furiously on October 17, 2007, 03:01:20 PM
I tried going to the local guitar center.. I just couldn't relax there... Might also look at local pawn shops.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on October 17, 2007, 03:05:46 PM
What happened? Too many kids clanking out Green Day riffs or somethin'? Or were the floor people buggin you?


Fuck a pawn shop though. That's a big mistake. Go to a real used/boutique shop.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Phildo on October 17, 2007, 03:37:33 PM
I got my first drum set from a pawn shop.  What a mistake that was, they were from a company I've never even heard of.  TJ Percussion.

Although to be fair, the pawn shop near my school does have a Les Paul in pretty good condition.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on October 23, 2007, 05:44:33 PM
I should post the picture of my kit, it's quite possibly the worst pile of shit ever stacked together. Can't recall the maker. The heads are all messed up and dented, they need tuning but I don't know how and certainly wouldn't waste anyone else's time on that kit. I got a crappy medium ride but some decent sabian highhats with it. A guy that was working for me had them in storage and needed some dough for xmas, I quite generously gave him $100 for the set (nice hats and cheap kit imo).

I've since put $10 into a nice pawn-shop tama straight stand that I don't have a cymbal for. I also stomped through the cheap bass drum pedal, not surprising because I stomp the shit out of it. So I sprung for a nice chain-drive dealy, tama or something.

As soon as I get my own house (or some amazing apartment situation), I would like to get a decent kit set up in a little studio room. Something like this (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Gretsch-Drums-Catalina-Maple-Fusion-Shell-Pack-with-Free-16-Floor-Tom?sku=445670). I was going to go even more stripped down, I played with a bunch of configs back when I had the opportunity. But I was watching some old Who concert footage and I decided I should have a few toms set up. I love playing drums, with my senheisser recording cans and ipod, there's a couple hours of good loud fun. Earbuds and earphones don't cut it, need full ear cup action...and probably an ear-damaging ipod volume...I do play hard.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on October 23, 2007, 05:47:15 PM
Oops, forgot what I came in here to post. Setting up ye olde amazon wishlist for the xmas season's hopes...I just threw in this (http://www.amazon.com/Clayton-Movie-Replica-Pick-Destiny/dp/B000OT8PAE) and these (http://www.amazon.com/Clayton-Functional-Replica-Destiny-6-Pack/dp/B000K6B4E0/).


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Phildo on October 24, 2007, 03:40:55 AM
I actually have that exact Gretsch setup in birchwood.  I prefer maple, but I got a good deal on it.  Guitar Center & Sam Ash like to give away the little tom for free.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Signe on October 24, 2007, 04:37:17 PM
Love, love, love the Pick of Destiny!  Definitely one of those in the xmas stocking for my incredibly talented guitar, bass, drum, sax, keyboard playing nephew.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Righ on October 24, 2007, 11:29:27 PM
Yeah, wouldn't surprise me if he has the real thing.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on October 25, 2007, 04:35:26 PM
So when push comes to shove and you have to evacuate, and it means choosing what instruments to take, here's how it boils down:

S S Stewart banjo (1894), 62 Melody Maker, 62 L000 Gibson acoustic, Blueridge acoustic, 1950's Harmony bari uke: save.
Michael Kelly mandolin, Washburn bass, Applecreek mtn dulcimer, Shenandoah Jr amp, rest of gear: leave.

 :heartbreak:

But I am home again and everything is fine.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Signe on October 25, 2007, 07:20:22 PM
My nephew started out interested in bass but kept going and now has become very accomplished at a number of instruments.  He seems to have a knack.  A couple of years ago we got him an electric violin (just for fun) and he's had a blast with it.  I've been thinking for a while of giving him a banjo.  I don't think he's ever messed around with one but he's a huge Bela Fleck fan.

PS  I'm glad everything went okay, Raph.  Good luck!  I'm thinking the stress would have probably done me in by now.  It's hard to believe some of those fires were set intentionally.   :|


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on October 26, 2007, 11:45:55 AM
By Al Qaeda?

I have a banjo, my grandfather's cheapo Silvertone. But it's in such awful condition, I cleaned it up but it needs some setup work because the action at the 12 is about an inch  :-o I'd love to learn some basic banjo stuff, and it's close to the open tuning I use for slide guitar (open G). Of course, the Scruggs book lists many alt tunings anyway, but I thought the open G was cool as I saw Guy Davis (who is awesome btw) play Can't Be Satisfied on banjo earlier this year.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: CharlieMopps on October 28, 2007, 02:44:21 PM
Some obvious advice...

Lighter strings = easier to play. Some electric players like heavy strings for the sake of the tone. If you are just getting back into it, don't go that route.

The only big "learn wrong" thing you can do is end up with really bad hand position on your left hand. But cramps will quickly tell you if that is the case. If it feels painful to do stuff, you are probably doing it wrong (excluding fingertip blisters from lack of calluses, and stretching when you first do barres).

Having played in Death metal bands for years, I can promise you... heavier strings do not give you heavier or even different tone. I know a lot of guys as well, that think the gauge of their strings effects tone... but it doesn't.

The only thing I've found they do, is that when tuning very low (I've been know to tune to B) they lose less tension. When you have ultralight strings and you tune down to B, they are "loose" on the guitar and you have to have extremely good finger control to prevent them from swinging out of tune just from the pressure of your hand. If you ARE really good at controlling the pressure of your fingers you can use this to your advantage, look at Morbid Angel... that tone they have comes strait from very lite gauge strings on a very down tuned guitar.

My tip? Practice with medium gauge strings. Play shows with lite gauge. The medium build finger strength, then the lite will make you fly over the fretboard at the show.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on October 28, 2007, 03:03:45 PM
There was a time when I played with .013's or even higher. Particularly on Jags or JM's. I mainly used those guages because the bridges on those two particular guitars are literally broken by design (it's not in my head either...that's been the gripe about them for 40 years). Awesome guitars, but the absolute most retarded saddle design ever.

EXAMPLE:

(http://www.guitarpartsresource.com/JAGSADDLEKIT.jpg)


They need a lot of tension or the strings pop right out of the grooves.

This goes without mentioning all of the other little quirks (and there are many).

I finally started equipping a new saddle design though and can manage with .010's, but still prefer .011's, which is what I do on other electrics. I just can't stand the feel of anything smaller, and I'll break .009's or .008's almost immediately.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: CharlieMopps on October 28, 2007, 03:10:13 PM
Good point... I have played many guitars that would not play correctly with strings that were too lite or too heavy. My Les Paul will not take heavy gauge strings. I never pay attention to the .0013's or whatever the numbers are. I just get "Ultra lite" and leave it at that. I usually buy whatever brand comes with a free beer glass that month. Although, I won't play BlueSteel, there's something that just feels wrong with those strings.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on October 28, 2007, 03:16:36 PM
Well, Ultra Lights are .008's or .009's.

.013's or .014's are Fucking Stupid Heavy ;)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Selby on October 28, 2007, 05:33:58 PM
If you ARE really good at controlling the pressure of your fingers you can use this to your advantage, look at Morbid Angel... that tone they have comes strait from very lite gauge strings on a very down tuned guitar.
Trey is one hell of a guitar player in some of their work.  God of Emptiness is one of my favorite songs where he shines (in addition to all of their first 2 albums).

I'm a fan of 0.010 gauge strings.  Anything thinner and I feel like it's too thin for my hand to easily control and thicker I end up fighting the strings more than I care to.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on October 29, 2007, 02:16:23 PM
Funny this comes up. I've been playing a bit more lately, especially focusing on singing and playing simultaneously (zomgsuck). And last night I was thinking about bumping up the gauge on my SG and fiddling with the gauges on my Open G-tuned slide guitar. I'm using GHS .01s on my SG, but after playing the Baby Taylor so much recently, they feel very jangly and imprecise. I'm going to grab .11s next time and keep tweaking it. I might mix and match, keeping .01s on the high strings and going heavier on the low strings. I have a very heavy hand for palm muting and I like to have a thicker string for that, also probably a bass playing thing.

Actually I was planning out an instrument that was between guitar and bass, not like a baritone guitar but more of a true hybrid. The low strings of the guitar over the high strings of the bass, with string spacing maybe a bit tighter than a six-string bass...anyway. My brain is crapping out stuff like this constantly, my notebook is fun. On the other page from the guitarbass design is a custom parquet floor design...

Back in the band days, we used to use .09s or .08s. Our guitarist loved them, but I would've switched to heavier strings if I hadn't taken over bass duties.

Strings contribute a HUGE amount to tone, but with metal bands, it might not be as obvious because the signal has been utterly mutilated by the time it comes out the speaker :) I really like thicker strings, I feel much more in control and the sound is far less jangly (and as mentioned, you don't have the problem of sharping out by simply fretting a note!). I also use a fairly ridiculously thick pick (1.5mm), so that's a factor.

What amazes me is I never really break strings. Or change them. This thought occurred to me last night while I was playing really hard on some old Muddy Waters riffs, beating the shit out of the .01s on the SG with the slab of plastic I call a pick. I wear down the tips on the 1.5mm picks, too, eventually I have to retire them because they're too rounded off.

Practicing on an acoustic is so great for hand strength.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on October 29, 2007, 02:59:51 PM
Here's at least one guy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwlLaJuwEr4) who wouldn't have sounded right with little strings.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on October 29, 2007, 08:20:07 PM
Strings absolutely do affect tone. :P Jangliness, sustain, intonation...

I use .013's on my acoustic. That's a Medium, not a Heavy. I think I have .011's on the electric and on the Baby Taylor.

Supposedly SRV used heavy strings on his electric.

Posted a new tune yesterday, btw. http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/10/28/the-sunday-song-up-near-witch-creek/



Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on October 29, 2007, 09:03:19 PM
.013's would be medium on acoustic, yes, but electric, that's pretty bulky.

SRV used .013 to .058, similar to a lot of jazz guitarists actually -- but as we all know, he played much more maniacally than any of those guys. Supposedly, he'd play till they were downright bloody and skinned, and if the set wasn't finished, he'd apply super glue on his wounded fingertips to play some more.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on October 30, 2007, 11:00:20 AM
The SRV superglue thing was about his nails pulling away from the nailbeds from bending those heavier strings. That's one reason Albert King was such a monster bender, besides having the strong hands you need, he was playing upside down so his high string bends went toward the floor, saving his nailbeds a lot of torture.

I stop playing when the pain gets to be too much, but when gigging, I have played until I'm a bloody mess several times. Mostly on bass, though. And I don't really feel it until the gig is over and I realize I've bled all over everything.

I was going to post a rambly five-minute piece I did last night, but it was way too disjointed and I actually went out of key of a measure...twice! It was a cool jam, though, hopefully I can get into the zone again and record a better version. Got in the new Guitar World and they had a piece on Coheed and Cambria, with a nice chord progression, I forget exactly but something like Dm - F - Cadd9 - B5. I turned up a nice high-gain and started wailing it. I should just record /everything/ because I had a wicked version, tried to record it and couldn't quite recapture it. There was a whole section in the middle where I threw in a Dm - C reggae rhythym, it also had some nice melodic passages and some shred, some rock licks, a nice hodgepodge of stuff.

Then when I went to record it, I blew the Cadd9-B5 progression (twice!), dropped the reggae groove (which imo ruined the piece). But on the playback I was fingerpicking and then reggae strumming the Baby and it was really, really slick. But I had just re-arranged my recording setup and hadn't thought through recording the acoustic and it was waay too late last night to mess around with it (go Favre!).

Definitely the seeds of a cool song in there, though. You may have noticed the trend of me not polishing or even really finishing anything.

edit: Raph, nice piece. Poignant and a nice jam to boot. Vocals a bit out front, trying to hear more of the slidework ;) Then again, I'm the opposite, I tend to bury my vocals because I hate my voice. This verse in particular was creepy as hell:

So hush my baby girl, don’t cry but don’t you dare go sleep
And son, you’ll need to be brave and decide which toys to keep
Your momma’s got some pieces of our lives packed and no its not enough
But we’ll all stay together until the sun comes up


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on October 30, 2007, 07:32:26 PM
Glad you dug it. I barely mixed it, really... wasn't til I had rendered to mp3 that I realized the vocals were too foregrounded and the bass was mostly inaudible. The bass needs redone anyhow.

The slide work is... noodley at best. There's only like a five note figure and a 2 note figure there, everything else is just whatever came to mind really briefly. Mostly just wanted the atmosphere.

Open D, so if you want to mess with it, the acoustic parts are all played fretting just the three low strings mostly. I think I fingered it this way:

Verses:
222000
222000
020020
222000

little riff there sometimes is 000000 hammer on to 222000, then to 5 then back to 000000 and hammer on to 222000 again.

Chorus:
555000
555000
777000
222000

Bridge ("So hush..." verses)
000000 to 222000 midway thru the line
000000 to 222000 midway thru the line
032000 to 020000
777000 to 222000

I could put up a version w/o the slide and you could layer in your own part. :) Plus, there's a gap there for a brief solo that I kinda forgot to play.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on November 11, 2007, 02:00:36 PM
http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/11/11/the-sunday-song-october/


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Nebu on November 20, 2007, 02:08:48 PM
I've been building my own speaker cabinets for years but I just don't have the time anymore.  I was wondering if you guys could recommend a solid value (bang-for-buck) in a 2x10" speaker cabinet.  I've been playing my bass a lot more lately and am looking for a tight practice enclosure.  I have been playing through a VERY old 2x15, but it's really loose on the low end, particularly at practice volumes as well as being a pain to move around.  I'm planning to head to Denver this weekend, so any input before then would be appreciated. 

Oh... I play a 70's Fender Jazz with roundwound strings through a clean Ampeg amp (like 450 watt @ 4 ohm) if that helps. 


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on November 20, 2007, 02:24:07 PM
I have the ubiquitous ampeg 8x10 cab, with one speaker gone (got it that way for $100, cover is also shot, but who cares). I wish I had your amp to drive it, I'm using a shitty (shitty shitty) Peavey MkIII head, I think it's 125W. Combine that with the crappy passive pickups on my old bass and it leaves a lot of room for improvement. I used to play through a Peavey 2x15 loaded with 400W EV full-range 15"s, but as you mention, that's better for loud thumping than practicing, and it's heavy as hell (motherfucker stole my shipping money AND cabinet...another story).

So I dunno. Maybe an ampeg 2x10 cab? Maybe a crap pawn shop 2x10 cab and buy some nice 10"s for it?

My advice after a few cross-country moves is to buy it after you move :)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Nebu on November 20, 2007, 02:33:05 PM
So I dunno. Maybe an ampeg 2x10 cab? Maybe a crap pawn shop 2x10 cab and buy some nice 10"s for it?

Good ideas.  Ampeg makes a 4x10, but I'm not sure they make a 2x10.  The 4x10 is about $450 new which isn't bad, so that's an option.  I also found a Galien Kruger 2x10 for about $200.  I could just grab that and if the speakers suck, replace them.  Behrenger, Hartke, and SWR all scare me and I'm nto willing to shell out the cash for Eden.  Mayeb I'll have to look at a Peavey cap and re-load.  Decisions, decisions.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Furiously on November 21, 2007, 01:34:01 AM
I pulled my guitar out today and my fingers are sore as hell. 

Got it in tune and belted out some "Horse with no name" I felt pretty impressed with myself.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Selby on November 21, 2007, 07:36:46 AM
I pulled my guitar out today and my fingers are sore as hell.
I decided to break mine out for the first time in about 2 months.  I gave myself a blister after about 2 hours.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on November 21, 2007, 09:07:23 AM
I'm addicted to my Baby Taylor. It's so resonant and rich. I have to force myself to pick up the SG (which I still love playing!).

It's actually a really good thing. My lead powers are slipping a bit, but I've been making decent headway into acoustic blues, one of my goals. Build the fundamentals that will make my more advanced solo stuff so much better. I stick to a few basic chords for now (E/E7 - A/A7 - B7) and work on adding multiple lines. My goal is to be able to juggle three independent lines - lead, rhythm and bass. I've even been picking up the bass to solidfy the bass portions by playing it a few times on bass to make sure it feels like a real bass line. Also working on bringing in interesting rhythmic elements.

I'm doing horrible :) but I'm making some progress, which is always a good thing! I wish I both was not a perfectionist or so resistant to doing multiple takes. I lose the feeling for a tune really quick without a band, I guess.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Llava on November 24, 2007, 09:33:11 PM
Time for my biannual mention of my cousin's stuff:
http://myspace.com/travisaustinmusic

He got a myspace.  Seduction by A Kiss to Betray rocks pretty goddamn hard.  Needs to work on his singing, but I'll give him a break since he plays every fucking instrument in those things- keyboards, drums, guitar, and whatever the hell else he's using.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on November 24, 2007, 09:42:31 PM
I hope this doesn't come off shitty, cuz I like it. Not my kind of rock song really, but Seduction sounds like the score of a Castlevania boss battle or something. The boards and static-y percussion do the trick.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on November 24, 2007, 11:50:13 PM
I posted a non-sucky performance of the song I posted last time. :P About as far from rock as you can get, of course.

http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/11/23/a-better-version-of-october/


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: bhodi on November 25, 2007, 12:02:42 AM
I like the new recording setup. I think it adds a warm sound to the lower notes on the guitar, giving sort of a acoustic recording quality to the piece. That is, if it wasn't your mic placement, it's your tuning, or something. Anyway, whatever it was, I liked the way it was recorded and it sounded better than your previous October. A comparison came out of lieft field randomly, of the Eric Clapton's unplugged Signe that I have. I pulled it up, and with only a slight hint of I guess you'd call it tinniness on the higher notes (maybe from that bouceback you mentioned) the recording sounds similar to my untrained ears :)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on November 25, 2007, 12:13:01 AM
Forgot to mention the latest addition to my weirdo collection of acoustic instruments... a Venezuelan cuatro. Sent my my uncle who found it in a flea market in NYC, badly beaten up, with some cracks on the side. Still has a nice voice though. Clearly a low-end folk instrument, it has a hole in the headstock so it can be hung on a nail. He swears it's an authentic one from Venezuela based on the much faded maker's mark on the inside.

One broken gear on a tuning peg, one missing string. Plus cracks on the sides. Plus old cracks apparently repaired by smearing wood glue all over it. He paid $1. I wonder how much I will pay to have it fixed up. Sigh.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on November 25, 2007, 12:16:03 AM
I like the new recording setup. I think it adds a warm sound to the lower notes on the guitar, giving sort of a acoustic recording quality to the piece. That is, if it wasn't your mic placement, it's your tuning, or something. Anyway, whatever it was, I liked the way it was recorded and it sounded better than your previous October. A comparison came out of lieft field randomly, of the Eric Clapton's unplugged Signe that I have. I pulled it up, and with only a slight hint of I guess you'd call it tinniness on the higher notes (maybe from that bouceback you mentioned) the recording sounds similar to my untrained ears :)

The previous October was a bit of a train wreck. I mean, not just the recording, I think the performance was a trainwreck too. This one is better, tho not great.

I would hope it has an acoustic recording quality... it basically is! There's no amplification there at all, just a little bit of reverb after the fact in the mix, along with some volume. I ended up panning the whole mix to the right a fair amount because one of the mics came in so much stronger than the other.

Some of the warmth comes from the tuning. It's in C G C G Bb C.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Llava on November 25, 2007, 02:00:17 AM
I hope this doesn't come off shitty, cuz I like it. Not my kind of rock song really, but Seduction sounds like the score of a Castlevania boss battle or something. The boards and static-y percussion do the trick.

You're right, it does kind of sound like that.  I wouldn't take it as an insult, though- boss battle music rules.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on November 25, 2007, 01:25:16 PM
And yes, another.

http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/11/25/the-sunday-song-november/



Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Furiously on December 06, 2007, 12:30:09 PM
Kinda a fun site for someone who just wants to pick up a guitar and play a song.

http://www.actiontab.com/view_actiontab.html?id=109 (http://www.actiontab.com/view_actiontab.html?id=109)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on December 06, 2007, 02:33:37 PM
Eeet's backwards! I guess it's good if you're used to learning stuff from watching someone else play, but it would seem to make more sense if they had the standard training POV of looking down at the fretboard from playing position. Nifty, though.

Kinda gives me GH3 flashbacks, though. I'll stick with a piece of paper :P

Not much guitar news in my neck of the woods, just doing some woodshedding in case I play next week with some friends. Opened my mouth at the last blues gig and might get called up to sit in on Thrill Is Gone. I'm irrationally nervous about it, or maybe rationally...it would be my first blues jam with anyone, and in front of an audience of the best blues musicians in the county. Everyone turns out for the December jam because it's a charity jam session. No pressure! :| Maybe stay in and comp a few 7th chords behind some other stuff and hide during solo shoutouts.

The guy I'll play with has an absolutely amazing amp, a Vero (http://www.veroamps.com/) 20th Century Ltd. He plays a Gibson semi-hollow and his tone has never quite been there, but he is now easily the reigning tone monster of the jam session. While I'm still considering a little Fender tube jobby for starters (and going shopping tomorrow...), I'm sorely tempted by the Vero. If only they weren't $$$...


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on December 06, 2007, 07:58:35 PM
I hate to say this, but after learning more and more of your tastes, I don't think you'll be happy with a Fender in the end. It's a killer tone, don't get me wrong (and a Gibson with a Fender amp is perfect for BB stuff like Thrill is Gone), but the overdrive characteristics are not in the same area as typical rock. If you have any inclination at all to seriously crank up, then you might be disappointed. Fenders are good for lots of clean, glistening tones (and a lot of headroom to not distort) or those right on the edge, slightly overdriven leads like you'd hear from old blues cats. When you crank them up, they're really muddy, punk like, and garage-y...Especially anything of the Bassman variety (vibrolux, vibro king, hot rod, most blondes and tweeds). I'm in love with Fender stuff myself, but even I feel limited sometimes.


ANYWAYS... Have you played it with Marshalls much? You'll find plenty of blues tone out of one, and have more options for harder stuff too. I mean... Look at Cream era Clapton, Townsend, Angus, and Tony Iommi -- all roughly the same amp and guitar, but a huge difference.

[edit] Or hell, get both! Get a modeller. It certainly makes recording easier, I'll say that much. Maintaining a tube amp can be pricey and a bitch too. And they do sound pretty accurate these days, down to the feedback characteristics. I have a little trusty Valvetronix for messing around with, but the Cyber Twin is cool too.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on December 07, 2007, 09:34:43 AM
I've got a modeler and I fuckin' hate it (Boss GT-6), too much stuff to dick around with.  I play pretty clean these days, I just want an amp that will break up nicely without deafening me. Something that will be good for cutting through the mix at a small club, which is where I'd be using it most of the time. I'm talking combos, a place I think Marshall loses something in the translation. Would I love to have a 100W Marshall stack? Hell yeah, but I'm not in my 20s anymore, I won't ever have a need for that kind of power. I've done the full stack thing, I used to play through a Laney stack when I was doing thrash metal in the 80s.

I'm just going by what I'm seeing people with killer tone playing, and it's been 95% Fender amps, no Marshalls at all (unless you consider the metal guys like Zakk). Irl and on tv. The only amp I've heard whip the shit out of a Fender has been that Vero, and that was the most amazing tone I think I've ever heard, I just can't afford one right now. We'll be over in the city with a decent guitar store today, so I'm hoping they still have my SG in stock (or at least something with the same pickups) so I can try a few things out.

If I ever do need metal crunch, I'll just route through a proco rat pedal. Those used to define my tone back in the day, monster crunch, palm-muted riffs of death.

One thing I need to learn more about is the variety of tubes and how to bias them. Guys have been saying that is important even with a good amp.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Nebu on December 07, 2007, 09:46:54 AM
One thing I need to learn more about is the variety of tubes and how to bias them. Guys have been saying that is important even with a good amp.

The tubes you choose can define the sound every bit as much as the amp itself.  There are some good intarweb resources for it and you'd be amazed at some of the tubes you can find on eBay.  I recently bought a set of 1950's GE tubes for a preamp that I have and they were surprisingly both available and inexpensive. 

The Tube Store has useful reviews and info on the front page. (http://thetubestore.com/)  <see the lower right corner "Answers and info">



Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on December 07, 2007, 10:51:32 AM
Great! Thanks!  :grin:


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on December 07, 2007, 04:53:16 PM
Sky, the GT-6 is not in the same league as a Cyber Twin or Valvetronix amp. There's a lot more electronic wizardry going in there (mainly in the emulating of powerstages... in this respect, the Vox amps are the best, because they do at least use some real tubes).



Anyways, I'm not knocking Fender amps in any way. Most of my amps have been Fenders. The last one was by far the greatest Fender amp ever made (the hand wired Vibro-King). If you can find one of those for cheap, you'd be lucky. But as far as versatility goes, that they are not. It will dictate your sound a lot... So I'm just saying. It's a sound I happen to like, but I've run across many players who couldn't get used to it.


If you want a combo that can really cut through a mix though, nothing beats a Vox AC. The key to cutting through is High-Mids -- that's pretty much the natural voicing of a guitar, where other instruments don't invade in on the sound spectrum. It's strange, since most guitar players (when by themselves), cut out the mids and boost bass and treb, but in a band situation, mids will get you heard the best. The funny thing is, Vox amps don't even have a Mid knob. Just treble and bass. The mid level is hard wired into the amp. Check one out though!

Fuck biasing and getting into the nitty gritty parts of these things. I'm no electrician. Many a professional have been shocked to death by that shit, and my amateur ass isn't going to try. The downside is, it's usually $100 bucks just to get someone to do it.

Those GE tubes are only cheap because they're preamp tubes. All preamp tubes are dirt cheap. It's starts to hurt when your amp (like that VK, for example), has 6-8 power tubes in it (among others). Especially if you're going for new old stock shit -- you could easily break $200-300 just on fucking tubes.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on December 07, 2007, 05:09:47 PM
This is a man cutting through the mix with an AC30 (http://www.colorblue.dreamhosters.com/mp3/Psychedelic/01 Messin With The Kid (Live).mp3)  :grin:


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on December 10, 2007, 01:51:57 PM
Dicked around with the multitrack saturday, pooped out a draft version of The Thrill is Gone.

The fiancee is always making fun of my 'usual disclaimers', but I can't help myself. Firstly, it's a draft :) Just throwing down ideas, I have another one that's more of a Hendrix vibe on guitar. Secondly, I hate my voice, I just haven't found a comfort zone. For some reason this song is exceptionally challenging for me, I'm not sure why. It's not quite spoken, not quite sung, BB has a very odd thing going imo.

That said, technically there are a few issues, I blew the change just before the first solo, then the first couple solo lines were subpar because I was distracted by that. I'm firmly an improv player, with all the negatives that go with it! Now, I know I can go back and fix that little bit, but my studio skills are so rusty I wasn't getting it right in the limited time I spent messing with it, and I totally ruled out punching in/out destructively! One of the things on my list, get better with my multitracker.

The bass line is sloppy, I threw it on as an afterthought because I was inspired by a Janis Joplin documentary and I haven't played bass in a while. As always, first take, off-the-cuff. Finally, the acoustic part is weak. I totally cramped out my thumb because I'm not used to playing big chords on the jumbo for so long. And toward the end, the song drones on Em, though that did bring out a nice quiet section where I started muting the acoustic part and then followed my own lead on the subsequent instrumentation.

Recording technique: Played the acoustic on my Alvarez jumbo while listening to the original recording of Thrill is Gone. I like starting out that way because it gives me the percussion and chord/song structure to build from. Then I laid on the vocals to flesh out the form. Third track was the lead line (forgot to switch off the lead pickup after the solo, heh). Then I threw the bass line on there. Half-hour front to back, total time spent on this.

No mixing on the track or anything, I was just using it for ideas and to bolster my confidence in my playing. I thought it almost came together and there's the bones of a good track in there, so I figured I'd share it. I really suck with finalizing songs, I'd rather just keep jamming :) Hope you enjoy it.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on December 12, 2007, 02:22:39 PM
Arg, now I know how you feel when you put up a tune and nobody comments on it, Raph :P

Anyway, check out this link for gadget coolness:

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/iphone/proremote-pro-tools-controller-may-be-coolest-iphone-app-ever-updated-332324.php


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on December 12, 2007, 03:03:48 PM
Good playing man. Good luck on finding that amp too. A good tone will definitely bring out the best in that playing. With that high gain right now, you sound a bit like Santana! Not a bad thing though.

Anyways.. Forgot to look back at this thread to comment. Sorry!

The acoustic causes a bit of dissonance though, I have to say..



Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on December 12, 2007, 03:10:54 PM
By the way, for the vocals: They're not as bad as you think, but I have this suspicion that you'd be more comfortable a half step sharp.

[edit] P.S. Don't even pay attention to BB  :-) Do your own thing, just find your range.

Like this little cat here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHoO3JHnn3Q (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHoO3JHnn3Q)




Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on December 13, 2007, 12:52:00 PM
Arg, now I know how you feel when you put up a tune and nobody comments on it, Raph :P

Heh... and I didn't even see it until today! Will grab it and take a listen and offer comments.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Nebu on December 13, 2007, 03:46:37 PM
The bass line is sloppy, I threw it on as an afterthought because I was inspired by a Janis Joplin documentary and I haven't played bass in a while.

I'd say that it was a bit too busy for the song.  You're obviously a talented bass player, but sometimes less is more (aka Duck Dunn). 

Overall, I really enjoyed your guitar playing and wish it had been a bit more highlighted.  I also think that your singing is better than you think.  You have a unique voice that suits the style well.  Were I to have mixed the track, I would have a) given the guitar a tad more depth b) replaced the acoustic with a backbeat strumed clean electric (would sound great on a compressed ES 335 with some reverb and a little tremolo) c) kept the bass line fat and simple and d) added a little delay to the vocal. 

It's very brave of you to put stuff like this out into the internet void and I'm glad you did.  You're a talented musician and it's clear where your strengths are. 


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on December 13, 2007, 04:22:27 PM
I like the electric part quite a lot. Hate the tone on the acoustic. Noisy AND rubberbandy. :) Replace it! I agree the bass is a bit too busy, but you're a good bass player. I think a bit of effects in the mix would make a big difference on the vocal. I also think you're trying a bit too hard on it in a few places, pushing it too much.



Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on December 13, 2007, 05:16:52 PM
Hehe Raph finally gets to be a critic  :grin:


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Furiously on December 13, 2007, 10:29:31 PM
30 seconds later I'm still laughing at that comment...


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Phildo on December 14, 2007, 02:04:29 AM
I expect anything he'd describe as having been pooped out is probably going to need some cleaning up.  For what it's worth, I enjoyed it.  More people should post some work and expose themselves to ridicule.  As such, I played the drums on this little number (http://www.maffamatix.com/Media/Spaceheater%20-%20Subway.MP3).

And for the sake of humor, I composed this (http://maffamatix.com/tested.mp3) in class when they forced us to mess around with some MIDI gear.  It's the first song I've written since I was 4 years old, and probably the last.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on December 14, 2007, 08:39:24 AM
Thanks for the feedback guys, I really appreciate it. Very helpful to get some perspective on stuff, my fiancee just gives me positive reviews :P

Raph, since you do a lot of acoustic stuff, could you expand on what you mean about the acoustic part? It was just my cheap Alvarez run through a crappy patch on my GT-6 direct in to the recorder. There's a volume boost and a little verb on it. I've never been able to find a good setup for that guitar, my Baby Taylor sounds so much better recorded through my SM-58 lying on the coffee table :P Not sure if there's any hope for the Alvarez, I'd hate to get rid of it because the fiancee loves it (it was my main guitar when we were first dating).

I mean, it's got a jangly tone I'm not a big fan of, I prefer nylon-stringed guitars (Willie Nelson FTW). Also, the rhythm is easily the weakest part imo because I haven't really been working on chorded rhythms much, I usually just play fragments and inversions on the electric (even if I don't know what half of them actually are :P). Not really sure how I could improve the rhythm part without a drum part, I guess part of getting this setup together is getting a good instrumentation setup in my head :) I was spoiled when I was young, always had a band to work my ideas through.

The bass...yeah, I've always been accused of being a bit busy. There are a few places where I don't think it worked because I was trying to jam in a phrase that didn't quite fit. Overall, though, it's a stylistic thing. If I could play like Duck, I would. But that's how I play bass, and I don't really have time to focus on improving my bass skills without removing focus from improving on guitar (especially the aforementioned rhythm stuff).

When Raph says I'm trying to hard...it just sounds that way. I don't even really pay attention to how notey it is, I'm just thinking ahead to the next phrasing and playing off the cuff. But it's a valid criticism, my fiancee is always telling me to give it some more space, especially when we watch Buddy Guy who's phrasing is monstrously good (I guess she does give good criticism now and again, heh).

My voice. Yeah. We'll get there. I usually add a drop of verb to a finished recording, forgot to put it on this one when I bounced to stereo because I didn't give it a final mixdown, just the bounce to stereo. I already destroyed that vocal track on the original trying to change it around. Got one really nice verse (again inspired by Janis who I've been listening to lately), but it's at the top-end of my range and there wasn't much room to riff on things and it REALLY fell apart on the third verse because I tried to change it up too much.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on December 14, 2007, 08:44:02 AM
Best way to record an acoustic is to DISTORT it  :grin:

Mmm, Jumpin' Jack Flash/Street Fighting Man style


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on December 14, 2007, 08:58:47 AM
To be serious though, I don't really see much wrong about how it's recorded though. I mentioned dissonance earlier, and that's just to do with syncing and some of the mix levels clashing. A better backing guitar track for that song should be a little more muffled, trebs and level down, etc.. Think jazzy. Kind hard to pull off with a typical steel string, but it can be done. Or hell, you can do the rhythm on the electric too, of course.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Furiously on December 14, 2007, 09:19:17 AM
And for the sake of humor, I composed this (http://maffamatix.com/tested.mp3) in class when they forced us to mess around with some MIDI gear.  It's the first song I've written since I was 4 years old, and probably the last.

It just needs some LL Cool J saying, "I'm in love girl."


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on December 15, 2007, 12:42:24 AM
What I meant was that you were getting fuzz and crackle on the acoustic part, but only some of the time. That's a tricky line to walk tonally, for me. (YMMV). I would either play it up or play it down. Most of the time, getting the touch of distortion only on loud signal just sounds messy, especially on a rhythm part which is supposed to be backgrounded and filler. If you think about it on electric guitars, when you aim for that sort of "clean sometimes" sort of tone, it usually happens because of multiple strings vibrating at the same time, not just because of playing one note louder.

Most low-end acoustic pickups aren't very good at capturing the sound of wood, and the result is a tone that to me always sounds like rubberbands. :) This is just an issue with pickups, unless you're up at the high end with something like a Taylor ES system (drool) or a Fishman Blender style thing.

Poor man's version of the blender effect would be to record direct and also mike the guitar, record on two tracks simultaneously, then adjust the mix to get the balance of tone you want. This is probably why your Baby sounds better miked -- no pickup involved.

If you want to try miking to get better acoustic tone and just have the one mic, try pointing it at the 12th fret. If you want to try better tone via the pickup, try turning the volume knob down on the pickup, adjusting the tone knob towards mid or lower end, and boosting the volume on the amp instead. And fiddle some with the EQ. A pickup on an acoustic tends to emphasize the treble too much. And try older strings, which jangle less -- that jangle gets magnified greatly.

The rubberbandy sound isn't BAD per se, btw. It just conjures up Ovation guitars to me. :)

BTW, I meant the vocal was what sounded like it was trying too hard -- not the song as a whole. There were some places where the growl sounded a little affected to me, like you tried too hard to get it.

PS, "Hehe Raph finally gets to be a critic"

Heh, people either forget or don't know: I spent years in writing workshops and have an MFA, I studied music theory and composition in college, and studio art to boot. I AM a critic. ;) Or can easily be one, anyway!


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on December 15, 2007, 10:17:12 AM
Woo, great feedback, thanks Mr Critic!  :grin:

On the 'affected' growl...that's actually me trying to sing in tune on the one hand and trying to keep it from sounding metal on the other. It's really difficult, part of my searching for my voice. But you're definitely right, that track has been very difficult for me. I tend to sing Muddy and Junior Wells stuff a lot better, BB and Otis Rush much less so.

Re: Ovation sound. I completely understand with just that phrase :) I'll mess around with the stuff you mentioned. You guys have probably noticed I'm not the most methodical and patient person in the room...I like to plug in and lay it down. This morning my voice was totally shot thanks to a head cold...but that's when I get this incredible low register going. Wanted to lay down She's Nineteen Years Old and rushed recorded it simply awful. I need a drum machine or something, that's one reason for the acoustic base track on Thrill Is Gone. Great vocal part on the 19yo track, though, hate to lose it.

I wish I could remember a fraction of my college training, studio engineering major, theory minor. Now I construct chords by pattern  :uhrr:


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on December 15, 2007, 10:56:24 AM
Dude, who can sing Otis Rush except.... Otis Rush? Don't even sweat it :grin:


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on December 18, 2007, 08:47:57 AM
So. Drums. What do you guys use? I have a real kit, but I can't really set it up at my apartment and driving out to my parents to record them is not feasible. Of course, I'd prefer laying my own drums tracks. So I need something electronic, I guess.

We used to have an awful Alesis machine, later we upgraded to a Boss I used at school. I remember that being nicer but still pretty limiting. Looking at musiciansfriend.com, that same (or minorly upgraded) Alesis is still around. Arg. The 'cheap' Boss ($280) sounds real limiting (only two measures at a time?) and the better one ($500) is loaded with nonsense I don't need (COSM, bass lines). If I had to buy one, I'd probably save up for the better Boss unit, which would probably push it into next summer (since I'll be getting a guitar amp soon!).

I'd be interested in any feedback on units you guys have used, or alternatives like software even though I'd rather have a dedicated unit and not dick around with the pc unless it was a really compelling package.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on December 18, 2007, 09:00:07 AM
I use a neighbor. I also used to use an old Akai MPC, with a bunch of nice drum samples on it [you could feed any samples you want.. I believe the drum disc I had was made by Roland though.. Had dozens of real kits]. I'm just not very creative with drum dynamics though, so even with that kind automation, my beats aren't that good.

Either way though, I haven't recorded anything in awhile, let alone anything that needed a drum track. Pretty much slackin' on the entire music thing, I guess.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Phildo on December 18, 2007, 12:46:49 PM
MPC is good, but it can get a little expensive.  If you have a laptop, throw a copy of FL Studio on it and use that.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on December 19, 2007, 10:47:29 AM
I have an Alesis SR-16. But a fair amount of the time I use loops for Acid Pro. Occasionally I'll pull out shakers or the bongos, but not often.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Nebu on December 19, 2007, 11:04:16 AM
Let me know what you end up with, Sky.  I've been considering buying a drum machine for years, but I can't get away from the subtle imperfections that make a live drummer a good thing to have.  I've actually been toying with the idea of just getting a cheap kit and learning to play better myself... though I have the luxury of owning a house in a quiet neighborhood. 

On a side note, I just picked up one of THESE (http://www.zzounds.com/item--SCEBJS1) for next to nothing on eBay.  I figured it would make a nice contrast to the Telecaster I've been playing and I didn't want to shuck out $1k for an SG or Les Paul until my skills get back to where they used to be. 

Now all I need is a new guitar head...


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on December 19, 2007, 03:15:54 PM
I'm really just a frustrated drummer, I think.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on December 21, 2007, 01:08:16 PM
ARGHH!

I'm stumped.

Beeswing (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-K18xQgDS3U)

Even with a tab (http://www.guitaretab.com/t/thompson-richard/19377.html)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Nebu on December 21, 2007, 01:34:16 PM
Beautiful song... god I wish I had that thing... what was it... oh, yeah: Talent. 

Thanks for the link.  I may tinker with this song over the Holidays.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: sidereal on December 21, 2007, 01:40:28 PM
ARGHH!

I'm stumped.

Well he capo'd the 3rd and it sounds like a dropped tuning.  It looks like Am to F to start the chorus.  The section of video starting at 3:02 is instructive.  That's all I got from work.  Great song, though.

Edit: I'm an idiot.  I just noticed you linked the tab.  I'm not going to improve on that.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on December 21, 2007, 01:47:42 PM
Think it's capo at 3, dropped D. I still suck though.  :uhrr:


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on December 21, 2007, 02:45:39 PM
Ah, Richard Thompson. I still haven't mastered "'52 Vincent Black Lightning" properly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxKTzwaEa2o


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on December 21, 2007, 02:47:28 PM
Yeah, 52 is great. I should probably just focus on that (although I suck at it too). I'm better with steel strings.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on December 25, 2007, 11:39:55 AM
Musical gear in this year's gift pile:

  • Audio-Technica noise-cancelling headphones.
  • A keyboard stand. For the nice keyboard I need to get. Which one am I getting?
  • The Beatles Complete Chord Songbook.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on December 25, 2007, 12:16:01 PM
Uh, how big is the stand? I guess that'll dictate which board you'll get!

Are you interested in full blown synths or just digital pianos?


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on December 25, 2007, 02:25:24 PM
I used to futz around with MIDI stuff in like 1992. :P Haven't in a long time. I guess I want something that feels like a piano (weighted keys, velocity sensitive), and that I can use as a controller. I have actual MIDI jacks all over the place, not just USB, btw.

I don't know what the typical way is these days to use a keyboard as a controller, what format for patches everyone prefers, and where you get the sounds. I loaded a SoundFont once. :)

The stand can handle a full-size keyboard. I think I'd rather have 88, but would settle for 61...


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on December 25, 2007, 04:56:53 PM
USB or Midi, doesn't matter.

Mostly anything with 88 weighted keys will be a digital piano. There are vanilla controllers though that are more or less built the same way. M-Audio (http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/KeystationPro88-main.html) makes a pretty affordable one ($400 @ Musician's Friend (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/MAudio-Keystation-Pro-88-MIDI-Controller?sku=709203)).

Not very many of the fancier synths are weighted though, or even 88 keys for that matter.


Uhh, as for typical use these days.. Just running sequencing/soft synth programs as usual. That m-audio board above apparently comes with Ableton Live "Lite" -- not sure what the lite version has, but the normal version is one of the popular sequencer programs around these days (despite it's name, it's good for composing too, not just performance). There's always the big multitracker programs as well -- ProTools, Logic (and by extension Quicktime), Cubase. Can't go wrong with any of them either for multitracking or sequencing. The simple answer though is ProTools.

As for sounds... Umm. Any of the standard instruments through these progs will more than do. If you're really adventurous, you could build your own soft synths too --- this I know little about, and not sure what direction to point in. I could ask a buddy later.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Phildo on December 25, 2007, 07:18:00 PM
I agree, the M-Audio key stations are great if you're just using it as a controller, although I don't like the way the keys are weighted.  Can your budget incorporate something like a Triton or Phantom?  Those are the big two for MIDI right now, from what I understand.

I believe I mentioned it before, but FL Studio is a great program for MIDI sequencing, and it can incorporate homemade synths very easily.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on December 26, 2007, 12:45:56 AM
So, what I really want to do is just add richer arrangements to my music. So I don't want spacey synths, I want realistic stuff. A good piano sound, strings that don't sound like a synth.

I generally use Sibelius to capture notation, and if I make a MIDI it's usually from there because it will play it back with expression. I am incredibly rusty on keys but feel like I can work my way back to knowing my way around given some time.

So I want a) decent sounds b) something that feels good to play on

That's basically it. I don't know what I'd be controlling if I only had a controller, I guess. :) You tell me.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on December 26, 2007, 03:47:07 AM
You could control any kind of virtual instrument you want. Not necessarily "spacey" stuff. :-)

There are some good software based instruments out there... Better than anything you'll find hardcoded in most keyboards. They can usually be interacted with as standalone programs, or as plug-ins for Cubase, ProTools, MOTU, Logic..

For a realistic piano, take a look at Synthogy (http://www.synthogy.com/index.html) (Rachmaninoff example (http://www.synthogy.com/demo/Rachmaninoff_op21n12.mp3)). It's not synthesis, but midi controllable sample playback/streaming -- at a pretty insane level. It's so extensive in sampling all of the dynamics and range of the 3 piano models it includes that it takes up about 40GB of space. It'll respond to whatever you're pounding away at on the controller.



Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on December 26, 2007, 08:55:26 AM
I want to get the fiancee something to get back into playing piano, so I'm also kind of interested in Raph's query. We looked at a bunch at the local music shop, but anything with decent key action was in the $1000+ range, which we're not quite ready to dive into. The consensus is we'll wait until we get a house and get a used piano, so I guess I have nothing to add to the discussion. Except to suggest you get a piano and mic it!

My big gift this year was enough money to get me into a decent amp (I've been saving most of this year, too). She's tired of hearing me use it as 'an excuse'.  :grin: I should've brought my SG to the last blues jam, though, the guy with the incredible Vero amp I linked before said I could've used his  :ye_gods: On the downside, he's the guy I wanted to jam with, he's got a sick chord knowledge.

On the playing front, I've been making some incredible breakthroughs. Baby steps, little things, but incredibly liberating. Also embarassing I'm learning this stuff over twenty years after picking up the guitar :) I blame the years I played bass :P Anyway, learning the neck through the CAGED system. It's finally filtering into my playing, we were watching the 2007 Farm Aid thing and Haynes does a nice acoustic version of Soulshine. I was playing along with open chords and then started to monkey around with playing different triads on the top three strings, it was wild. The CAGED system pwns. I may actually be a decent guitarist someday.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Phildo on December 26, 2007, 11:30:58 AM
Raph, you can save a good deal of money by purchasing a straight controller and having it run directly into Acid, which can use any of the numerous VST virtual synths out there.  I don't have much personal experience with VSTs, but I do know it's the most numerous of the plug-in formats.  The M-audio stuff already mentioned would be perfect for it.

Quick google search turned up this list of VST synths: http://www.synthzone.com/softsyn.htm

There are tons out there and you can edit the sounds on most of them, so finding the particular sound you're looking for is just a matter of experimentation  with parameters most of the time.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on December 26, 2007, 11:47:27 AM
Agreed. Besides, I'd think the whole the soft synth thing would be up your alley anyways, being that you have an interest in software programming and design.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on December 26, 2007, 06:59:47 PM
So I went and found some free VSTs and messed with 'em with some of the Sibelius stuff I have notated and turned into MIDIs... easy peasy. :) Basically acts like a different MIDI instrument.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Righ on December 26, 2007, 07:14:22 PM
So, what I really want to do is just add richer arrangements to my music. So I don't want spacey synths, I want realistic stuff. A good piano sound, strings that don't sound like a synth.

http://www.synthogy.com/


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on December 26, 2007, 08:10:04 PM
For a realistic piano, take a look at Synthogy (http://www.synthogy.com/index.html) (Rachmaninoff example (http://www.synthogy.com/demo/Rachmaninoff_op21n12.mp3)). It's not synthesis, but midi controllable sample playback/streaming -- at a pretty insane level. It's so extensive in sampling all of the dynamics and range of the 3 piano models it includes that it takes up about 40GB of space. It'll respond to whatever you're pounding away at on the controller.


Nyah, nyah. Already linked to it Righ.


j/k  :grin:


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: climbjtree on December 26, 2007, 09:29:55 PM
The wife gave me a gift certificate to Guitar Center at Christmas. Here's what I got:

(http://images.miretail.com/products/full/mitchell/633195038644841974_X.jpg)

It's a Mitchell concert uke with a spruce top and rosewood sides an fretboard. It has a very full and rich sound. I'd say I prefer it to my sopranos, and maybe even to my tenor.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Righ on December 26, 2007, 09:31:51 PM
Nyah, nyah. Already linked to it Righ.

Ooops. I've heard it played live, and its decidedly more impressive than most other software. Rudess was also much more tolerable without the rest of Dream Theater. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGk5aUDntwY


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on December 28, 2007, 09:56:30 PM
No keyboard yet, but those VSTs got me going. This is a quickie orchestration (http://www.raphkoster.com/music/MarketOrchestrated.mp3), quite incomplete, of a solo acoustic guitar instrumental from years ago. I didn't get around to orchestrating all of it, so I just repeated what I had several times with different arrangements.

Orchestrating is fun. I skipped that class in college somehow. Hmm.

I demand feedback. I know, not guitar, but it began life that way.





Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on December 28, 2007, 10:18:54 PM
Dang, you got right to work didn't you? Sounds cool. A little freestyley maybe, kinda hard for me to anchor on to the theme, but I still like it.

I don't mind anything that isn't guitars by the way. We should just name this the Musical Instrument Thread.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on December 29, 2007, 03:39:49 PM
Looks like I either get a MIDI controller that I can't play at a jam session, or get a digital piano that doesn't make for a good MIDI controller, or I get a Yamaha S90 and spend $2000. :P

Anyway, in wandering around pricing stuff on the Net, I stumbled across the Axon AX 50 (http://messe.harmony-central.com/Musikmesse07/Content/TerraTecProducer/PR/AXON-AX-50-USB.html). Kinda neat. Not that I know anyone who has a MIDI pickup on their guitar.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on December 31, 2007, 08:55:36 AM
That's great, very baroque-y, and I'm a baroque whore. My girlfriend just asked for a copy.

I used to mess with this stuff back when I was in school, it's a lot of fun and you can get a pretty good output with a minimum of effort, and since it's notation you can strengthen that, if you're weak on it like I was and am again.

I went to guitar center yesterday, in the Big City. I felt totally dumb, unreasonably, playing way too fucking loud in the midst of about fifty musician strangers. Very uncomfortable and weird. So I only checked out a little of the Fender 65 reverb, which was cool. I had a Vox AC30 up on deck, but I was so far out of my comfort zone I ditched. If it doesn't snow too bad, I'm planning on heading out to the local guitar store (which has both amps) and playing in a more comfortable environment. Totally un-nerved me, because I've never been nervous or had stage fright, ever. It sucks. Also reinforced the thing I've been saying about not wanting to have my first jam with a blues band in public, don't these motherfuckers rehearse at all? Apparently not. I really don't want to share this, because I was incredibly stupid and vulnerable, but there you go. Even the cocky arrogant musicians (or at least formerly so) can be humbled by something as simple as trying out a new amp. Didn't bring my guitar, either, and all the SGs there sucked ass, the 61 rules imo.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on December 31, 2007, 01:51:12 PM
Looks like I either get a MIDI controller that I can't play at a jam session

Laptop/Monitors/Keyboard. Should work well :)


When there's 50 shredders in the room who can smoke me (and there always is), I turn on an echo pedal and I play dub reggae riffs. Simple, but no one else around here can do it! Turns their heads every time.

If it's an acoustic, I play Prodigal Son.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on December 31, 2007, 02:07:31 PM
Laptop & all that feels obnoxious... ah well.

Maybe I will head up to Guitar Center to try some stuff out in person.

If you're a baroque whore, I can give you the guitar tab to that piece. :) Make the girlfriend happy... I look forward to hearing it as a reggae dub.

Just posted a year-end summary. Man, I posted a lot of music this year: http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/12/31/year-end-roundup/




Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on December 31, 2007, 02:22:10 PM
I told you that you were inspiring this year, Raph!


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on January 02, 2008, 01:58:40 AM
My Baby Taylor has developed a crack in the top, smack in the center, from the bridge to the heel. :(


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on January 02, 2008, 09:41:52 AM
DUCT TAPE FTW  :awesome_for_real:

That totally sucks. On the bright side, at least it didn't happen to a higher end guitar....I would honestly cry if something happened to my SG, I'm irrationally in love with it.  :ye_gods:


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on January 04, 2008, 01:37:19 AM
Hmm, I don't even know what to do about this. A repair is probably expensive, and the guitar itself is not. Plus, it is 7 years old. Is it likely to fly apart on me? The crack runs from bridge to heel. But it does not seem to be getting worse.

I tried calling Taylor to basically say "what do I do? I know you think I am terrible for letting it happen, and that you think I let it dry out or something, but it shows no other symptoms of that. Do I just go buy a new one?" But they are closed until Monday.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on January 04, 2008, 02:06:45 AM
I'm really good at giving electric advice, but repairing acoustics is such a bitch.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on January 04, 2008, 09:04:12 AM
A repair is probably expensive, and the guitar itself is not.
That was pretty much my thoughts on it. If it's not getting worse, just stick it out and see what happens. If it does get worse, try a local guitar shop (or see what Taylor says), not for a repair but for repair advice. It is a relatively cheap guitar despite the high quality, so radical repairs (or duct tape :awesome_for_real:) are probably worth trying yourself. If it doesn't work, you're out another $250 for a new Baby.

Fiancee just pointed out there are guitar repair books at your local library  ;D


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: sidereal on January 04, 2008, 04:03:48 PM
Beat up guitars have improved sound.  Willie Nelson spent most of his time playing on a guitar that was slightly more hole than guitar.  Go with the flow.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on January 05, 2008, 09:37:18 AM
Man's got a point. Imo Willie Nelson has the best guitar sound evar. He's what drove me to take up guitar lessons in school just to get access to the nylon stringed guitars. My straight 100s in that class led me to music theory class (which was only for 4-yr music majors!) which I never dipped below 95 in.

Anyway, my fiancee was intruiged by how much influence Willie has on me, he's an amazing musician and songwriter. Because of his unique style, he can often have a bad performance and it's very difficult for others to jam with him, most of his live collabs fall flat. But when he's on, it's amazing. I don't even really consider it country music, his leads are amazing with jazz and spanish influences plus a mastery of melodic forms.

Oops, I gushed there. I heart Willie. I need a nylon string, shoulda bought that Taylor when I had a chance ($1400 Taylor for $800)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on January 05, 2008, 12:54:27 PM
I bet we all have ""guitar that got away" stories.

For me it was a Larrivee acoustic. We were at a music store shopping for my mandolin -- so we were about to blow around $1000 anyway. While we're there, I try out a guitjo, try out some of the guitars they have there... on the guitjo I cut loose with this fast flatpick breakdown thing I do in G, and after that, the shop manager starts steering me to specific instruments to try them out. So I try a Breedlove acoustic, and it's super gorgeous when mellow, but didn't have any snap, growl or bite in its tone at all.

Then we hit this Larrivee. Even more gorgeous mellow. But it also had bite. I played it for like 20 minutes, the manager & me and others clustered around. I keep saying "Man, that's a nice guitar" over and over. But we're here to buy the mandolin. The guy says "yeah, it's been here for maybe a year already, because a lot of folks don't know Larrivee, and it costs $2000... but..." And I am thinking to myself "But if I get a new acoustic, I kind of want the Taylor ES pickup system in it... and this has its own thing, and... hmm."

In the end, i regretfully shake my head and we buy the mandolin (which has been awesome). And Kristen says, "You know, if you really wanted it..." And I said no, because spending $3k was not in the plan...

I still daydream about that guitar and wonder if it's still there.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on January 05, 2008, 04:46:15 PM
Ohh, the guitar that got away for me was a Fender Bass VI,  in lake placid blue like this one (http://www.gbase.com/files/store_images/414/1696248/photo1_c4537.jpg). They're one of the rarer production guitars Fender made (although they've been resissued just recently, in slightly different form). When I was younger, I saw one selling merely in the hundreds of dollars range. Now they run $6000-$7000.

They weren't really guitars, weren't really basses, and not really baritones either! They were tuned E-E and had a 30" scale, unlike most baritones, but the strings were a lot thinner than a bass (or a modern 6 string bass).


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Nebu on January 05, 2008, 08:52:23 PM
I worked in a guitar store in downtown Minneapolis for 4 years during my teens doing bench work and setups.  The number of stories I have about lost opportunity are many. 


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on January 11, 2008, 10:35:41 AM
I broke my high E! It's the first guitar string I've broken in....well, I can't remember the last time I broke one. I did break a bass string about three years ago. I never change my strings. Was doing a Buddy Guy/Albert King 2 step bend over the V chord while playing for my fiancee. Can't even remember what brand or gauge I have on the SG.

Capped off a day full of bad luck, she told me to leave my guitars alone until midnight. Despite being anti-superstitious, I complied.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Phildo on January 11, 2008, 10:43:07 AM
I went through the first five years of drumming before I broke a stick.  Some kid in high school told me I wasn't a real drummer until I did.  That haunted me for a while, until I realized how much of an idiot he was.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on January 11, 2008, 05:21:01 PM
I always used to break the G string. Apparently, it's slightly likelier to break because of the amount of tension you have to put on it to get to pitch.

That said, these days I usually only break strings when tuning up, not when playing.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Selby on January 11, 2008, 09:51:18 PM
I haven't broken a string in almost 10 years.  And I am not easy on my strings.  They all have grooves worn into them from the fret markers.  I like to think they give the guitar some class and character that you just can't get from a new guitar off the shelf.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: DarkSign on January 11, 2008, 10:17:24 PM
I just found this thread. Who knew so many of you were fellow axe-men.

I've got a Chet Atkins Country Gentleman, a Flying V, and a Gibson Les Paul Studio.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on January 11, 2008, 10:50:16 PM
I've got a Chet Atkins Country Gentleman

Ouch! That's some mojo twangy goodness right there.


I break strings all the time. Every month at least. I think it's because of my smoking or something...Acidy fingers maybe? Not sure. I play big strings too, so that isn't a factor.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on January 12, 2008, 09:47:56 AM
http://guitarworld.com/backissueviewer

Also, I want your Chet guitar kthx. I'd also go for one of those Setzer models with the dice knobs, they smoke, too.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on January 12, 2008, 02:49:20 PM
Wow, Guitar World has changed its vibe. I never pick it up because it's all glitzy these days. An article on 50 influential guitar recordings that is 1/4 steel? Wow.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on January 12, 2008, 08:25:31 PM
Laptop & all that feels obnoxious... ah well.

Maybe I will head up to Guitar Center to try some stuff out in person.


Ended up ordering a Yamaha P70. It'll be here Wednesday. I thought I was going to get an M-Audio ProKeys 88, but they didn't have any to try, and the keybed on the M-Audio Keystation 88 is the same -- I tried it and didn't like it. And I decided to get something people could play on at jams, which left out straight controllers. The Yamaha has less controller type features, but it played and sounded the best for under $2k.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Phildo on January 16, 2008, 09:34:57 AM
Went microphone shopping the other day and picked up these guys (http://www.guitarcenter.com/R0DE-Matched-Pair-of-NT5-Microphones-101778009-i1126923.gc) for stereo recording.  Guy at the store said they also make good vocal and guitar mics when used individually.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on January 16, 2008, 11:12:03 AM
Wow, Guitar World has changed its vibe. I never pick it up because it's all glitzy these days. An article on 50 influential guitar recordings that is 1/4 steel? Wow.
Yeah, it's pretty obnoxious and barely readable. But it's cheap and due to some errors on their end (missed a couple issues) and the closing of Guitar One, I have a sub until the end of next year. Haven't needed to pay on it since 2006, I think I've put a total of $20 into it.

I go back and forth on Acoustic Guitar mag. It's not really aimed at me, but I like some of their solo guitar transcriptions and every few months there is an interesting piece.

In bloggy type music news, I'm still needing a guitar amp, heh. At January's blues jam, the best guitarist in the jam was giving me a hard time for not bringing my guitar. So I'm trying to focus on getting a tune down solid so I can play in Feb. Mostly, it's remembering the damn lyrics, I have no memory for that, they slip right away. Going to do "She's Nineteen Years Old" based on a version I saw Buddy Guy do, with some alternate dirty lyrics he threw in "She got one leg in the east, one leg in the west, but it's what's down south that I like best".


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on January 16, 2008, 11:41:34 AM
Went microphone shopping the other day and picked up these guys (http://www.guitarcenter.com/R0DE-Matched-Pair-of-NT5-Microphones-101778009-i1126923.gc) for stereo recording.  Guy at the store said they also make good vocal and guitar mics when used individually.

Hmmph. Been mic-less myself for a long while now. Kind of half-assed in the market for some old 421's.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Phildo on January 16, 2008, 11:48:19 AM
What are you planning on micing?


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on January 16, 2008, 12:17:03 PM
Guitar amps mainly, but I like mics that can do anything when I or anyone needs it. 421's and 57's are great at this. Besides a kick, an entire band could run off of them. I play my Vox more and more though, and it's already got a huge midrange bite. Not that a 57 or black 421 would be bad, but a silver 421 would be great for it. 441 wouldn't be bad either.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Phildo on January 16, 2008, 12:22:30 PM
Definitely.  A good all-purpose dynamic is just what you need.  Someone at my school described the 57 as the 'swiss army knife of microphones.'


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on January 16, 2008, 07:06:47 PM
I just have two mics:

ATM41HE (http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wired_mics/2b9116f40d416b8e/index.html)
AT4033a/SM (http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wired_mics/9da35d460627c96c/index.html) -- basically that one, altho mine is the SM version, somewhat older.

I use the ATM41 for most things, including miking the amp, if I need to.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on January 17, 2008, 08:06:39 AM
I've only got the one Shure SM58, the ol' battleaxe. Been meaning to pick up a couple 57s, that'll wait a while though.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Nebu on January 17, 2008, 12:46:37 PM
I have a 58 and a 57.  I was unaware that any other mics existed outside of the studio!


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Phildo on January 17, 2008, 12:59:03 PM
AT4033a/SM (http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wired_mics/9da35d460627c96c/index.html) -- basically that one, altho mine is the SM version, somewhat older.

According to the specs on their site, the 4033 can really take a sonic beating!  145 dB SPL is pretty high for a condenser.

I'm planning on picking up some 57s myself.  zZsounds.com is running a pretty sweet deal on them, packaging in a 20-foot XLR cable and a boom stand.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Nebu on January 17, 2008, 01:00:46 PM
I'm planning on picking up some 57s myself.  zZsounds.com is running a pretty sweet deal on them, packaging in a 20-foot XLR cable and a boom stand.

Thanks for the heads-up.  I may have to grab one with that deal. 


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on January 18, 2008, 12:52:17 PM
AT4033a/SM (http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wired_mics/9da35d460627c96c/index.html) -- basically that one, altho mine is the SM version, somewhat older.

According to the specs on their site, the 4033 can really take a sonic beating!  145 dB SPL is pretty high for a condenser.

I use this mic a lot less than the other simply because it is so damn sensitive. I mean, I am not in a studio situation -- I have zero soundproofing. If I turn up the gain to max, I'll get noises from the house next door. With it turned up even 1/3rd or so, I usually pick up most of the house. Gives a lot of "space" to the recordings, though.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on January 20, 2008, 09:56:41 PM
New stuff: http://www.raphkoster.com/2008/01/20/the-sunday-song-let-us-just-be-music/


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Phildo on January 21, 2008, 04:07:17 AM
I dig what you did with the cello.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on January 22, 2008, 09:57:58 AM
Just bought the Fender 65 reverb amp. Now I've got to find my guitar tone again. Blah. I like the amp, but it's such a new thing I'm back out of the comfort zone /again/, heh. It's louder than what I'm used to, since I've mostly been playing direct GT6 -> console -> headphones or GT6 -> Pignose. So now I have to re-learn how to play through a loud amp, it reacts very nicely to my pick attack, but I attack like a mofo in some sections and less in others, so it's uneven and can be unexpectedly loud, brings out a lot of stuff I never even knew I did (smacking strings percussively and whatnot). It's interesting and will be good once I get used to the volume and dial in my tone. Feel sorry for my landlord during the interim while I suck on it!  :ye_gods:


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on January 22, 2008, 10:05:16 AM
Ah, I didn't hear you bought that...

Is it the Deluxe Reverb? Because that shouldn't be too loud.

If you're talking Super Reverb, then yeah... It took me awhile to learn my lesson, but I won't get anything over 30 watts anymore. Can't get the ideal use out of amps like that. The deluxe's wattage would be great for me, but I don't really dig it's brightness (different story with Fender guitars than it is with your SG).


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on January 28, 2008, 08:54:46 AM
65 Deluxe Reverb. It's not that it is LOUD, it's that I've been playing through headphones or a Pignose, as I said.

Still adjusting to the way the amp reacts to my pick attack, but overall I'm more than pleased with it. I still have to use my GT6 when I'm playing at low volumes, but when I can turn it up it's wicked. High end is still a bit thin and I'm trying to dial it in because I love a real sharp trebly sound to replicate some of the Muddy telecaster sound. The thinness does work when playing stuff that was recorded on a strat, I was doing some Buddy Guy rhythm lines from a Jr Wells recording and it was nice. But when I crank it up with the other pickup, nice warm sound, almost perfect.

Getting a lesson on using the volume and tone knobs, though. In the old days I always used pedals to control that stuff (not to mention I had shit guitars). With the bass I did use the controls for tone, but volume was mostly in the finger attack.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on January 28, 2008, 11:35:28 AM
Best way to get a Muddy sound is to get a Tele! There's a Muddy model actually, which is about the sweetest thing Fender does that's Mex made. Only problem is that it's only in red. :\

Picking real close to the bridge could help too. Most tele players do that anyways .


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Nebu on January 28, 2008, 01:30:42 PM
I own a mexican tele and it's the biggest piece of garbage I've ever laid hands on.  I immediately replaced the pickup and tuning pegs and it's just bearable.  The Schecter S-1 I just picked up blows it out of the water and it's not a particularly great guitar. 

Were I to get another Tele, it would have to be a standard.   


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on January 28, 2008, 01:42:26 PM
I'll take any donations, but another guitar isn't in the works for quite some time. A Tele is on the list, along with a maple neck Strat and a Gretsch. Right now the SG is about perfect for electric duties, though. My cheap Cort that I have set up for slide in open G is a single coil, though. Might be worth dropping a decent single coil in there and updating the electrics with something cheap but durable. Wouldn't want to put a lot of money into it, because it's a crappy guitar.

Saving for a honeymoon in Ireland now that I have an amp. Still thinking about a drum machine or something, though.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on January 29, 2008, 10:14:41 AM
Bah, that version of 19 Years Old I posted took most of the criticism levied here into account and nobody posted a thing. Bah, I say! Not really intentionally changed due to the criticisms, but I figured I'd share it because it was naturally similar to the stuff you guys were saying. The vocals were much more comfortable for me, as it's one of my favorite tunes. Rhythm was done on an electric, bass was more traditional, yada. 

 :drill:

It was recorded before I got the amp, so it's all direct into the recorder, guitar via the Boss GT6. Thinking of getting a little pre-amp for the vocals, the phantom power in the recorder is a little weak and dry.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on January 29, 2008, 10:20:01 AM
Where the heck is the link?


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on January 29, 2008, 10:37:01 AM
Took it down after a week. Time friggin Warner only give me 5 measly MB, not enough to fit a 5 minute song. The last couple songs I've leeched on a library host :) Shh.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on January 29, 2008, 06:35:06 PM
It was an MP4. So I downloaded it, and found I couldn't play it without doing some other download... See, classic MMOG conversion funnel: persuade the mto download, then to log in, then to comment. Low conversion ratio. ;)

It's still sitting here on my desktop though. I'll download the codec at some point, I promise!


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on January 30, 2008, 08:15:07 AM
Don't you people use iTunes? Heathens!

 :awesome_for_real:

(I'll remember to mp3 it next time, maybe)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on February 01, 2008, 10:51:50 PM
Good band I think you might like Sky. Old timey swing/acoustic/punk

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51pXYJwMyCL._SS500_.jpg)

Old Number 7 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNJowyYkoOs)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: sidereal on February 04, 2008, 01:52:20 PM
I'd say more punky bluegrass.  I catch Devil Makes Three at the Tractor Tavern with a frequency.  The bassist is money.  She's about 4 feet shorter than her upright, but rips it.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on February 04, 2008, 02:13:09 PM
Oh, I meant country/nashville swing. My bad. A lot of fast waltzy 7th chord stuff.

Really liking them though. Would be nice to see them, but it doesn't look like they tour outside of cali too much.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: sidereal on February 04, 2008, 03:02:42 PM
They go up and down the west coast, but yeah.  Not so much east of the rockies.

Never Learn and Tow are classic songs.  Good times.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on February 04, 2008, 03:09:52 PM
Also, possibly the most frightening band I've heard since NWA. If you know what I mean? Attitude, balls, sincerity, belly of the beast shit. Ain't much of that goin' around anymore.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on February 05, 2008, 07:39:01 AM
Y'know, I'm just now realizing how cool Steve Stevens was. Those muffled riffs were slicker than anything other 80's hard rock guitarists were doing at the time. Plus, he could make his guitar sound like a laser gun (Rebel Yell solo). I could go on about Billy Idol himself, but I somehow ignored Stevens all these years.

Enjoy it again for the millionth time (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToeY7MkCm0c)

Agree or disagree?



Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on February 05, 2008, 08:53:12 AM
Billy Idol taught me to sing. There, I said it. Well, not him exactly. I owned all his albums. They looked funny with all the Mercyful Fate, Slayer, Venom, etc.

Rebel Yell was a great rhythm piece bum JANK JANK JANK. Damned synths, though.

I really like that Devil Makes Three stuff. Sounds like a lot of stuff I've been listening to lately, except about 80 years later :) Like a jazzy piedmont sound.

Funny you mention balls in music, one of the things I want to bring to our local blues society is a set of nuts. Those white guys are so fuckin' pasty. As Big Bill said, them blues is s'posed to be barrelhoused! I'm trying to get them to bring in Otis Taylor, they're bringing in these lame pasty acts. Good guitars, but blues is about more than a good guitar line and cheesy blues band imo. Then again, I'm biased as my favorite signers are the hollerers...which is where the goddamned genre came from in the first place. Robert Cray can suck my dick.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Righ on February 05, 2008, 10:19:56 AM
Y'know, I'm just now realizing how cool Steve Stevens was. Those muffled riffs were slicker than anything other 80's hard rock guitarists were doing at the time. Plus, he could make his guitar sound like a laser gun (Rebel Yell solo). I could go on about Billy Idol himself, but I somehow ignored Stevens all these years.

If you haven't heard the music he made with Terry Bozzio and Tony Levin, you're missing his best stuff:

http://www.magnacarta.net/audiofiles/bozziolevinstevens/473_sitdangerous-3.mp3

http://www.magnacarta.net/guitar/songs/4.mp3



Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: sidereal on February 05, 2008, 10:57:28 AM
Funny you mention balls in music, one of the things I want to bring to our local blues society is a set of nuts.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/music/wma-pop-up/B00004WFCY002006/ref=mu_sam_wma_002_006

Those white guys are so fuckin' pasty.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBGIQ7ZuuiU


For blues I'm mostly listening to R.L. Burnside and Sonny Boy Williamson.  No fucking around there.  It makes me very  :sad_panda: when people think the blues is a 15 minute guitar solo over a 12-bar rhythm.  I'm looking at you, Stevie Ray Vaughan.  Yeah, I said it.  Jerking your whammy bar while you play relentless blue notes and make the "O" face is not the blues. 


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on February 05, 2008, 11:43:28 AM
Can't hear the amazon link, it must be the old WMA engine they used. Doesn't play nice with safari. The new embedded player works fine. Given your second link...  :awesome_for_real:

For blues, I listen to tons of stuff. Critically I've been listening to Broonzy, Son House (thinking of covering American Defense), Blind Willie Johnson for the acoustic guys. Electric mostly Junior Wells, Howlin' Wolf, Muddy (always Muddy, Our Lord and Saviour), and some Peter Green-era Mac. I like both the guitar solo kind of stuff and the old barrelhouse acoustic stuff. But I feel the former is lacking if you don't know the latter.

SRV is ok by me, not my favorite. But I do get annoyed (as do most fans of older blues) when he is considered synonymous with blues. Buddy Guy called someone an ignorant motherfucker at a show I saw because Buddy was telling stories about the old timers and someone shouted out SRV. "SRV. SRV? You ignorant motherfucker. SRV was good and all, but sit there and learn about the fuckin' blues" was about how it went.

By Sonny, do you mean Rice Miller or the original? I've got a great Rice Miller album (King Biscuit Time) where you can hear the band hanging out between songs. It's really good stuff. But our local best harp player (who also digs the old and new) insists I get a disc of original Sonny Boy, who is his biggest influence along with Little Walter and Jr Wells.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: sidereal on February 05, 2008, 12:57:57 PM
The second.  I think it's hilarious he basically jacked another guy's name.  That's extra bluesy.  I haven't heard much of the original.  I keep meaning to get into Robert Johnson (what it's possible to get of him) and Son House.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yd60nI4sa9A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jN5vqEyV7g


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on February 05, 2008, 01:27:28 PM
Just get the Complete Recordings (http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Recordings-Robert-Johnson/dp/B000002ADN) of Johnson, he didn't record much. I wasn't very erudite when I got my Johnson disc and it's only like 16 of the 41 he recorded. Both he and Son are great. Son influenced both Johnson and Muddy, so he's got a special place in history even beyond being a great musician with a classic tortured preacher/bluesman schism.

Blind Willie is on the Voyager spacecraft with this amazing tune: http://youtube.com/watch?v=BNj2BXW852g Here's one of Willie with his wife that showcases the vocal style (which I really dig): http://youtube.com/watch?v=7R8RuOagzck

Junior Wells doing one of my favorites with Otis Rush on geetar: http://youtube.com/watch?v=47djAb6jVJk

Muddy Waters used to say you couldn't play the blues too slow. Here he demonstrates the concept quite well with Junior and Buddy backing: http://youtube.com/watch?v=oiEBopPts1E


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on February 05, 2008, 05:16:38 PM
Y'know, I'm just now realizing how cool Steve Stevens was. Those muffled riffs were slicker than anything other 80's hard rock guitarists were doing at the time. Plus, he could make his guitar sound like a laser gun (Rebel Yell solo). I could go on about Billy Idol himself, but I somehow ignored Stevens all these years.

If you haven't heard the music he made with Terry Bozzio and Tony Levin, you're missing his best stuff:

http://www.magnacarta.net/audiofiles/bozziolevinstevens/473_sitdangerous-3.mp3

http://www.magnacarta.net/guitar/songs/4.mp3



Those are cool, but it's his rhythm I like the most (the "bum JANK JANK JANK" that Sky mentioned). The second track there kind of has it at first though.

Billy Idol taught me to sing. There, I said it.

Same here. I'm a baritone, and can just growl through my throat, so singers like that are natural fit. When I was real young though, he was like the "ultimate rockstar" to me... Even if there's only a handful of good songs. The dude's got a little bit punk, new wave, glam, Elvis and Morrison crooning, and the coolest hair EVER.


My favorite bluesman is Otis Rush. I've said that before in this thread, I think. And of course, Robert Johnson.

Keith will always be my favorite "pasty" blues player. Even if he's just mostly rhythm.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on February 05, 2008, 06:53:31 PM
Just to continue on my Steve Stevens kick... Can any of you do that Rebel Yell intro? Where he's tapping the 10th fret on the b and e strings, but playing that little walk line in b at the same time? I'm having trouble... I know HOW to do it. I just can't.

On a nylon (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSxyMTFfV2A)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on February 05, 2008, 10:07:05 PM
Ooh, 3 posts in a row.  8-)


Was just gonna say, since I was trying that Steve Stevens shit on my acoustic, I started messing around with other shit. I don't think I've ever posted ANY of my music here, have I? Anyways, this is my humble little start. I don't have any good mics at the moment, so I used my webcam's.

I've rambled about this open minor tuning I play in a lot.. Raph was puzzled about it once, I think. It's Open G minor (just open G, with an additional downtuning of the B string down a half step to A sharp). I do little frenchie/gypsy sounding rhythms in it. Easy way to get droning minor chord sounds, and easy access to 7ths.

ANYWAYS, nothing special or virtuosic. Just wanted to show an example of what I meant.

I'll call it... Making Ends Meet (http://homepage.mac.com/kthompsen/music/making_ends_meet.mp3)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on February 06, 2008, 12:40:19 AM
Lol, I'm re-listening to that... Sketchy as shit!  :grin:

Hard to detect the rhythm there maybe. I'm playing with a steel string capo, which made it difficult (strings would buzz if I struck too hard). Oh well.

[edit] Here's a plucked version of the same chords. Link (http://homepage.mac.com/kthompsen/music/ends_meet2.m4a). Hah, now it sounds like a Tetris song. Easier to follow rhythm though, I guess. Just to get you to know where I was shooting at.

Sorry for the sketchiness though.. I was just noodling around like 5 minutes before I posted the other one. Noodling here too. Maybe I should make an actual composition out of this.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on February 06, 2008, 08:37:09 AM
Sorry for the sketchiness though.. I was just noodling around like 5 minutes before I posted the other one. Noodling here too. Maybe I should make an actual composition out of this.
Now you're sounding like me!  :grin:  I really like it, you should expand it to a full tune. Would you mind if I threw some vocals down on it? It's got a great swing.

On the Rebel Yell intro: he's combo picking it, he's got really good combo picking chops. Playing the walking bass with the pick and plucking the top figure with his fingers. Don't feel to bad, I can't play two lines with separate rhythms, either. It's related to why I'm not a drummer, I'll never be a great acoustic blues guitarist. I can do some fun things but it's just faking it mostly.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: penfold on February 06, 2008, 01:06:01 PM
I knew I heard the name Steve Stevens elsewhere and I couldn't remember where.

Then I realised who did one of the songs on my Ace Combat 6 playlist (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCTJmXrgsFg)



Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on February 06, 2008, 08:07:26 PM
Sorry for the sketchiness though.. I was just noodling around like 5 minutes before I posted the other one. Noodling here too. Maybe I should make an actual composition out of this.
Now you're sounding like me!  :grin:  I really like it, you should expand it to a full tune. Would you mind if I threw some vocals down on it? It's got a great swing.

On the Rebel Yell intro: he's combo picking it, he's got really good combo picking chops. Playing the walking bass with the pick and plucking the top figure with his fingers. Don't feel to bad, I can't play two lines with separate rhythms, either. It's related to why I'm not a drummer, I'll never be a great acoustic blues guitarist. I can do some fun things but it's just faking it mostly.

I'm a lefty playing righty, so my picking chops will be off. Helps dexterity on the fretboard though.

Anyways, yeah you can put a vocal on there. I could put it in a lower key if you want. I might make at least one part for the song as well.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on February 07, 2008, 12:14:37 AM
I was trying something more swingy, but it turned out to be kind of hard to get right in recording. I'll look into it later maybe.

Was just gonna posting something else. It's the same wacky tuning, but with the bottom string down to C now. Again, I'm not trying to show my leet chops or anything (I don't have any), but this is an example of something completely different in that tuning. Kind of sounds like a j mascis song or something.

I'll call it.... Blowfish (http://homepage.mac.com/kthompsen/music/blowfish.mp3). Because it sounds watery and fat.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on February 07, 2008, 08:12:01 AM
Eh, by the time I got it home and on the 8-track, I forgot my inspiration and nothing was fitting in. Rule #1 of writing is you have to do it when the inspiration strikes. Kinda tough when you also have to work a 9-5. Ah, well.

Stray, nobody on here has leet chops  :grin: Raph's a good singer/songwriter and I'm a good noodler, but we're nothing special compared to the big kahunas imo. Even when I'm playing fast or wailing, it's not to show off, I'm too old for that crap. I'm glad you're sharing some stuff, makes this forum more interesting :)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Nebu on February 08, 2008, 09:24:55 AM
I'll call it.... Blowfish (http://homepage.mac.com/kthompsen/music/blowfish.mp3). Because it sounds watery and fat.

I like it.  It has a really mellow feel and lots of potential for a bridge. 

About chops: what Sky said.  I'm a solid bass player and was a very good songwriter in my day, but I'm humbled by people out there doing it for a living.  Just enjoy what you're doing!


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on February 08, 2008, 05:16:05 PM
That's all I do! Try to enjoy myself I mean. I play for my own therapy mainly. Not self conscious or anything, I don't care about chops. Just a fair warning, since I know there are some prog-ish types here. Most of my stuff is like that, just alt/poppy/punk riffage. I just spew out that stuff at will. I don't really take the time to compose anything. Especially not with a webcam mic! I like playing a lot of twangy spaghetti western leads too..With a lot of those ringing Link Wray chords. Who was the shit by the way, and didn't have "chops" in the technical sense at all.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Abagadro on February 16, 2008, 01:27:40 AM
Ok, this is an obscure question.

Anyone know who played Bark at the Moon with Ozzie at the 2007 VH1 Rock Honors?  It doesn't look like Jerry Cantrell (although I guess it could be him if he grew a beard as you don't get a great shot of his face) who is the last guitarist that I know of who was working with Ozzy. I see the video pretty much every week during Metal Mania and it bugs me that I can't place who it is.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on February 16, 2008, 02:01:03 AM
Had to search for it.. Never saw it before...

That's definitely Zakk.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Abagadro on February 17, 2008, 01:32:58 AM
Duh. I feel el stupido now.

Didn't realize he was back with Ozzy which is why I didn't place him.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on February 17, 2008, 01:50:09 AM
Heh yeah. Just remember: If the guitar has a white and black bulls-eye, if the guitarist looks like a cross between a biker and Thor, and if every other note he plays is a squeeling harmonic, then it is no other than Zakk Wylde.

Kick ass version of the song too.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Abagadro on February 17, 2008, 02:00:16 AM
Ya, I thought that version was really well done, which is why I asked. I can't believe I spaced on it being Zakk. I think this means I am getting old.  :sad:


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on February 17, 2008, 02:02:17 AM
Oh, and speaking of bikers and Thor, does anyone here like Valient Thorr? Link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zvh_N64nCZo) (not the best track imo, but cool)

Fun band. Good, classic riffage. Records like they sound live. Funny gimmick (in this age where music woefully lack a good gimmick):

Quote
The short version of the story, as told by "Valient Himself" [his full name], goes like this: The band was traveling through time and space from Venus doing scientific research and visited Earth three times -- 1957, '63 and 2000. They were traveling in time to research ways to save life on Venus. At some point Himself and his crew stashed their time machine outside of Arlington, Virginia, and Walt Disney stole it.

"He's a wily guy," Himself said of Disney. "He could still be alive floating through space right now, or he could've just burned up. Who knows if he knows how to operate that thing?"

Now the band is stuck here on Earth attempting to find a way to save Earth from the fate of Venus through its guitar-driven, Southern-rock-meets-power-metal music.

"Warring and other things lead to the demise of our planet and we see a lot of the same things happening here on Earth," he said. "Rock n' roll on Earth is one of the most important and powerful weapons ever created. If it is used for the right things its power is unstoppable."


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Abagadro on February 17, 2008, 02:09:50 AM
I just realized that the last time I saw Ozzy live was when Jake E. Lee was playing with them, i.e. 22 years ago. Good god where does the time go.

Sorry, I'm being maudlin tonight and crying in my beer.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on February 17, 2008, 02:20:59 AM
I have unfortunately never seen the Oz Man. He popped around here for awhile for all of this ozfests, but that was probably my last chance. I think he's getting tool old and unhealthy for touring.

I DID however, almost get in a fight with some guys from Slipknot just blocks from the ozfest. Didn't know it was slipknot at the time of course (what with them usually wearing those masks and all)... But the fuckers stole a cigarette from my buddy. We all got kicked out and the police called on us. I'm sure Ozzy would have been proud.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Abagadro on February 17, 2008, 02:29:57 AM
It was a great show. Metallica opened for him supporting Master of Puppets. I remember not liking them very much as it was the first time I had really heard speed metal. Of course a month later I bought all their albums. Heh.

We were really blessed in SLC as there was a huge metal fan base in the 80s and big acts always played here at the old Salt Palace although I do remember Iron Maiden being bumped into a convention hall because a Monster Truck show got double booked on the same date.  We were pissed but it was a good show anyways.

EDIT: Heh, and as a true "plate of shrimp" moment the A Shot in the Dark video comes on Metal Mania as I am hitting the post button.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on February 17, 2008, 02:36:10 AM
Damn, Metallica (with Cliff!) opening for Ozzy. I was too young for that sort of thing.

Haven't seen that many popular metal bands, for that matter. I mean.. White Zombie might be the biggest and best one (during the Thunderkiss years, not the electronic stuff). That was a small venue too, really great. Sean Yseult ended up having an appendicitis right at the hotel by my house, after the show. Not so great. She was hot.




Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Abagadro on February 17, 2008, 02:41:39 AM
Yes, Sean was very hot. I'll make you jealous. I saw them at the 9:30 Club (which holds at most 100 people) on that same tour. One of the most amazing "club" shows I've ever seen. We BSed our way back stage based upon running the GU radio station and hung out with them after the show (this was our schtick at the time and was incredibly effective with the bands that played the 9:30 as most weren't all that established yet, and therefore desperate to ingratiate themselves with "radio" people, although many became huge successes) . Rob was (and seems to still be) an incredibly cool guy.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on February 17, 2008, 02:50:25 AM
Yeah, my friend got to bullshit with them a lot because he was working in that hotel. I was jealous. I thought that band was the shit at the time. They were on tour with Prong too (really underrated)... Tommy Victor (singer/gits) I have gotten to meet since. He's a cool guy. Even wanted me to be a tech for some fucked up reason.

I miss small shows like that. Or at least "tolerable" large shows (I imagine that Oz/Metallica show couldn't have been that bad, for a large one). That's why I haven't gone to anything like ozfest to see Ozzy. I either like bars or general admission. Not to derail from metal, but my dream would be to "happen" to be in one of these bumfuck bars that the Stones apparently set up in occassionally when they're on the road. The pricing isn't the thing that gets me about modern concerts really, it's the lack of intimacy. Seeing any good band, playing in a type of place where they cut their teeth at, is the greatest thing. I've seen a couple like that when the band wasn't that big yet, and it's always good.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Abagadro on February 17, 2008, 02:52:19 AM
I agree. There really isn't anything like being up at the rail or in a tiny club at a great concert.  Being in the upper deck of some arena isn't even close.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on February 20, 2008, 09:32:29 AM
I went to the Metallica/Ozzy show for Metallica. Oz was all glammed out, kinda sad. Still a decent show, but Metallica kicked his ass five ways to wednesday. Last time I saw Metallica, unless you count listening to them from the parking lot of the last woodstock while drinking beer.

I saw Oz with Zakk back in the early 90s, but he had some guy named Joe (forget the last name, one of Randy's students) who channeled Randy at the first Sabbath reunion Ozzfest. Zakk is a monster guitarist, with more range than most people give him credit for (love his southern rock).

I watched the Lennon Imagine movie for like the hundredth time last night and dug out Abbey Road. What a great album that was. Recorded a blues version of I Want You based on a Jr Wells riff. Wish I had a band, but what a pain in the ass that is.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: SnakeCharmer on February 20, 2008, 09:36:34 AM
I'm a big Zakk Wylde fan.  His sound just oozes power, for lack of a better word.  I listen to No More Tears quite often, and dig every minute of it.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on February 20, 2008, 09:47:15 AM
Lennon was so much the shit in the post Beatles years (in the Beatles years too, of course). Imagine isn't one of the harder tracks (still like it though), but a lot of the stuff he did after the Beatles was raunchy. I love the production on those early albums, real blues-y. Also, I think Yoko wasn't such a bad influence on him.

Abbey Road is my favorite Beatles album. We should figure out how to lay some tracks with that, Sky. I can play all the parts to I Want You pretty well. Also, Paul kicks all kinds of ass on that song.

Because just gives me the chills. Sun King is another favorite track.

[edit] I've always wanted to play I Want You with someone actually. Can't do it alone and sound right really. One of the guitars needs to be a drop-D, I believe.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on February 20, 2008, 03:01:27 PM
Speaking of I Want You:

http://www.guitaretab.com/b/beatles/1159.html (http://www.guitaretab.com/b/beatles/1159.html)

Holy crap, I can't decipher that. I don't play it that way at all. I just start with a simple dm chord. There's another part of that main riff that's just bass strings, but I figured it was a second guitar. I'm not sure if the person in that tab is trying it all at once or not. I'll play the two parts I know here (the bassier part runs afterwards)...

Sample (http://homepage.mac.com/kthompsen/music/i_want_you_sample.mp3)




Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on February 21, 2008, 10:08:37 AM
3 in a row  :oh_i_see:


Here's another cool Lennon track, Sky Well Well Well (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhYrMb6pJQw)

Kind of like I Want You... In both songs, I like how he matches the vox to the main blues riff.. I can't do that shit well.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Nebu on February 21, 2008, 10:13:08 AM
Stray,

I bought The Complete Beatles (http://www.amazon.com/Beatles-Complete-Scores/dp/0793518326/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1203611598&sr=8-1) a few years ago and have found it helpful in better understanding structure.  I will comment that the book is less than perfect, but does help you get the basics of the song down quickly.  Developing the rest just takes a bit of time and experience. 

It's also a bargain at that price (like $50 for 1100 some pages).


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on February 21, 2008, 10:21:11 AM
The Beatles are great for contemporary (ish) arrangement, harmony and composition. I wasn't that into them when I was younger, though I of course know most of their stuff (hippy uncle who played piano). When some music school friends of mine tried to turn me onto them, I was more interested in Bach (interested = obsessed, actually).

Anyway, Stray's version of IWY is waaaay more straight than the one I did. I didn't want to ass around actually learning it!  :awesome_for_real: Actually, one reason I did it the way I did was thinking of playing it at the blues jam, where you can't play anything non-standard unless you have a band (because the house band + random peeps won't know it, so my version of Since I've Been Loving You languishes). So I basically made it a 12-bar blues and destroyed it, just for fun. I call it deconstructionist blues, taking what rock had progressed from the blues back to the old formats (actually that's ironic punning, because I hate deconstructionist art). I have a great version of After Midnight (Clapton) done in a real skanky delta/chicago blues.

I'd post it up, but I forgot to mix it down to stereo. I also had a HELL migraine the last couple days, so it's even worse than my usual 1-take schlock, it's one-take and not very interesting and the vocals are pitchy, dawg. I couldn't really think about it much, I was just trying to jot down the concept, mostly. Had to be 1-take because my head split apart after it, heh. Did do the guitar through the new amp, which I'm loving (with ear-plugs, I'm old and the room is small).


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on February 21, 2008, 10:21:54 AM
Stray,

I bought The Complete Beatles (http://www.amazon.com/Beatles-Complete-Scores/dp/0793518326/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1203611598&sr=8-1) a few years ago and have found it helpful in better understanding structure.  I will comment that the book is less than perfect, but does help you get the basics of the song down quickly.  Developing the rest just takes a bit of time and experience. 

It's also a bargain at that price (like $50 for 1100 some pages).

That's actually pretty expensive for me. Thanks though.

I'm not too big on books, other than theory/instructional ones. I find a lot of times that songbooks have transcriptions that are off a lot.. Sometimes with a note, or sometimes in just where they place a note (like a dm chord at the 5th fret on the A string is a different beast altogether from dm on the D string).


I don't have a problem with learning most songs anyways. Not rhythms at least. She's So Heavy isn't one my problems at least. I know that part I posted is correct. There's just another part that George plays in Drop D (you'll most hear it in the last romp at the end of song) -- it's those bass notes I posted in the last part of my clip. The blues riffs where John sings are easy. Basically though, what I'm saying is that it's at least a two person song. Doesn't sound right otherwise.

The only thing truly hard about that song is Paul. He fucking KILLS on it.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on February 21, 2008, 10:30:17 AM
Kind of like I Want You... In both songs, I like how he matches the vox to the main blues riff.. I can't do that shit well.
Actually I find it much easier to stay in tune and sing along like that. The riff changes too much and I can't do both simultaneously. Hendrix showed me that trick and I'm working on it.

But yeah, you need at least two people, or a multitrack. I love mine, so glad I got it (the MR8HD). And listening to Abbey Road gives me a new appreciation of Paul, I never cared for him but I hadn't done any critical listening, either.

On books. I like them. They can fill in little things I'm missing. I'm really good at picking things up by ear, but I also like the visual. And the stuff you're saying about correcting the transcriptions, that's key, man. That's good theory in practice, it's something they teach in school, transposing things around the way you like it. One reason I never use a capo, I like to learn to play in as many keys as possible in standard setup. Then you can get into inversions and triads and stuff. I like learning the basic progressions and then fucking around with them until it morphs into something entirely different while still being the same song, spiritually. I used to do that a lot more when I smoked pot, though, I'd groove for hours on a riff and morph it all over, don't have the attention span without the weed, though.  :|


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Nebu on February 21, 2008, 10:38:53 AM
I really recommended the book only because reading music scores often helps me get a mental image of the composition.  Tabs really do nothing for me as I often play song in a different position than most of the common tab writers (this is particularly true on bass, where I prefer playing in positions up the neck rather than down by the nut). 

If you've ever played a Hoffner, you'll know why Paul can play a lot of what he does.  They have necks more like a guitar than a bass.  Don't get me wrong though, the guy is still a very good bass player.  I've found that once I get a feel for where Paul is on the neck, that he tends to follow similar patterns in the more common songs.  Dare I say that he becomes a tad predictable. 


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on February 21, 2008, 10:52:02 AM
See, but.. (and I hate to get all Beatles-phile here  :grin:), Paul switched to a Rick in those later years. He was playing a Rick around Sgt Peppers till Abbey Road. The Hofner still came in every so often, but it wasn't his main thing at that point.

I understand where you getting at with his feel though. He's fairly easy to find -- it's just that he's got that thing where he floats around those areas, but adds just the right bit of chaos to it all. Almost every bar has a subtle difference, and he stays on beat doing it. It's a good middle road between ho-hum rhythm and full blown wankery. I disagree completely with predictable -- listen to I Want You again.

Another unlikely favorite bassist of mine is.... Sting! People usually laugh when I say that, but he's got that subtlety like Paul.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Nebu on February 21, 2008, 11:04:44 AM
If you want to achieve full Beatles-phile status, you'll have to do better than the Rick bit.   I'll give "I want you" a thorough listen tonight. 

I agree with you on the rest.  I'm not a huge fan of wankery though I can appreciate the skill necessary to do it well (Pastorius, Wooten, Clarke, Claypool etc).  I'm a much bigger fan of subtle and melodic.  I love the Duck, for example.   Sting is a very "listenable" bass player.  The use of a frettless in pop music was a nice (albeit not new) touch.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on February 21, 2008, 11:49:50 AM
Just kidding about the Beatles-phile thing, but I'm just saying. The Hofner wasn't his only thing, especially in the later/studio years. Just too damn bad that there aren't many vids from that time period to show him jamming the Rick -- There's All You Need is Love, Hello Goodbye, stuff like that. Not bass heavy songs really -- but it's the same era.

Anyways, he's admitted himself to his liking for the Hofner because it allowed him to move with speed, do more typical guitar techniques, shit like that. He was more comfortable playing with it live as well. What the Hofner sucked at was bad intonation in the high end of the neck/bassier sections (which wasn't corrected until recent models actually). He didn't play like a typical bass player with it.

"Because the Hofner's so light you play it a bit like a guitar - all that sort of high trilling stuff I used to do, I think, was because of the Hofner. When I play a heavier bass like a Fender, it sits me down a bit and I play just bass."

There's a sharp difference in the recordings after he got his Rick. He's playing more bass. It's heavier. It's not the sound of a Hofner. And unlike the Hof, he could play higher on the neck more often. Secondly, the Beatles vowed to stop playing live at that point. What Paul started doing after that was sitting around a lot in a studio -- And it was for that practical reason alone that he dropped the Hofner. You can't sit down with one. So he got a Rick -- then his sound changed. Technically, it was around Rubber Soul when he got it (and you'll hear it on Rubber Soul and Revolver tracks, like Taxman), but once they really started just becoming a studio band, that was his main instrument.

[edit] I should add that he went back to the Hof for Get Back/Let It Be period for a second, then moved to the Rick again on Abbey Road. There's a book called Beatles Gear, if you're interested in any of this. It's interesting to note some of the unlikely parts he played in songs as well.. Like the lead guitars in "And Your Bird Can Sing". (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ilx0KvBnZlY)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on February 21, 2008, 12:52:34 PM
My bass (ESP custom shop) is very guitarish in the neck, except it's got a pretty long scale. I started on a wider neck (that got stolen), though. After my first bass was stolen, I used a friend's Rick, and it was a great bass. But I couldn't do a lot of the fiddly stuff higher on the neck, so it fits with the theory about Paul's playing. There were a couple tunes I had to basically rewrite during that period, just so I could play them live.

Also, I need to put new pickups in the puppy some day, never been happy with them.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on February 21, 2008, 04:56:22 PM
Again with Steve Stevens' multi-tasking.. White Wedding (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXBrFUBSmlM)

Really.. I've got devote myself to learning how he does that.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Nebu on February 21, 2008, 05:01:13 PM
Great link.  I wish they had shown the guitar work more.  The guy is truly amazing... and makes it look effortless in the process. 


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Righ on February 21, 2008, 05:46:15 PM
This one of the best books for understanding the Beatles recordings. Out of print, but generally available:

http://www.amazon.com/EMIs-Complete-Beatles-Recording-Sessions/dp/0600557847


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on February 21, 2008, 06:16:17 PM
So... Is there a technical term for what Steve is doing? Maintaining a bass line whilst playing a arpeggio like in that version of White Wedding, or when he's tapping frets while playing a bass line in Rebel Yell? I'd like to know if there's a term so I can find simple lessons to do that. I hear classical/flamenco players do it all the time, so there must be something...

On a sidenote: If I could pull off White Wedding like those guys above, then I could have any woman I wanted. Almost sure of it.  :wink:


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on February 21, 2008, 11:22:36 PM
Here's my poor attempt at emulating Steve:

White Wedding (http://homepage.mac.com/kthompsen/music/white_wedding.mp3)

Easy song really... But amazing what a difference cool technique can make. Technique I ain't got...


Anyways, something should try singing over it.  :awesome_for_real:

[edit] Somebody, I mean. Not "something".


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on February 22, 2008, 08:16:13 AM
Wouldn't it just be playing multiple parts? Some of the old blues guys would have three parts going on at once because they were imitating a whole band. They still blow my mind when I listen to them, it's why I listen to so much early recording.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on February 22, 2008, 08:29:43 AM
Yeah, there's those old fingerstyle players doing it too.. Blind Blake, Leadbelly.. I just hear it a lot in classical music as well. I'm sure that's where Steve got his chops. I said before though that my (piss poor  :oh_i_see:) excuse is that I'm left handed -- but I play right handed. I'm doomed to never have good right hand technique.  :cry: It was a bitch when I started learning as a kid... But by the time I realized I was supposed to playing lefty guitars, it was too late.

Anyways... Here's a slightly improved version of WW. Hah. Improved the rhythm here maybe. I know it isn't original, but it's fun to play.  :-)

Link (http://homepage.mac.com/kthompsen/music/white_wedding_2.mp3)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on February 22, 2008, 09:25:33 AM
Alright, just to show I'm not just playing 80's covers, here's an original:

I'll call it the Phone Ringing Blues (http://homepage.mac.com/kthompsen/music/phone_ringing_blues.mp3)  :angryfist:


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on February 22, 2008, 10:07:57 AM
ALRIGHT, one more for the road.... Sorry for the multiple posts. I guess I'm posting shit now because Sky used to comment on me not doing it.


So I'm gonna name this song for him:  :grin:


Organic Meat (http://homepage.mac.com/kthompsen/music/organic_meat.mp3)

[edit] On a sidenote, I need to stop posting shit fifteen minutes after I made it up. Sounds empty. I vow to give you more intricacy later on!  :-P


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: penfold on February 22, 2008, 03:17:36 PM
So... Is there a technical term for what Steve is doing? Maintaining a bass line whilst playing a arpeggio like in that version of White Wedding

I could get quite close to the verse by very fast downpicking the E string and 3 powerchords. I never play my accoustic with a pick so found it hard not to mute all the time as I don't play metal on it, but that's what it felt like I was doing :)

I've never seen that video before, but it's definetly the best version I've heard of the song.



Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Righ on February 22, 2008, 05:56:53 PM
So... Is there a technical term for what Steve is doing?

Hybrid picking?


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on February 22, 2008, 06:36:13 PM
I guess that's it... Though it seems to be associated with country stuff.

..

Hell, I don't know. The hybrid picking examples I'm seeing are impressive, don't get me wrong, but the multiple parts seem to be basically following the same beat. What Stevens is doing seems trickier. Especially in the Rebel Yell intro.

I'm getting close like penfold with the main WW riff though.. Just using thumb and index finger though, no pick.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Righ on February 22, 2008, 06:41:47 PM
Hehe. The power of Google:

http://www.skinnydevil.com/Stevens-1.html


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on February 22, 2008, 06:46:03 PM
Thanks! Hybrid picking it is. Lol, at the midi samples though.  :grin:


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Righ on February 22, 2008, 06:47:14 PM
I know. Clearly we shouldn't use the standard GM instruments there. :)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: penfold on February 24, 2008, 08:17:48 AM
I changed my rig this weekend. Now instead of setting up the >Pod Live>Peavy Express 112 amp or >Pod>PC>PC speakers or using ath amp alone, which meant lots of fiddling with wires and moving stuff about,  I now have guitar to Pod, and Pod outputting via balanced XLR to 2 Adam A7 (http://www.adam-audio.de/studio/nearfield/a7_data.htm) nearfield active monitors.

The Pod never really sounded good through the Peavy as its a bit old, crackles and hums and along with the way the Pod works the emulation never sounded right. It was the same with the below average Phillips 5.1 speakers.  I can connect my Ipod to the Pods auxillary input too, either to play along with or just for music alone. The difference is stunning.  My next step is a decent mixer with a range of inputs and outputs and I'll connect the TV and Xbox up too.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on February 24, 2008, 10:38:42 PM
Good investment. Are you just mainly interested in recording though? Don't want a proper amp for jamming? Or at least... A powered cabinet or something?


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on February 25, 2008, 08:29:24 AM
Only problem with monitors or monitoring headphones is they have poor low end response.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: penfold on February 25, 2008, 01:52:52 PM
I'm limited by my apartment with regards to amps. Anything over volume 1 on just about any amp short of a sub 100 buck toy is too loud. Walls like bloody paper.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on February 25, 2008, 02:40:52 PM
Couple weeks ago my friend said he heard my amp a half-block away. It was on 6. Only 22W. Yeah, I feel your pain.

I've been using my Boss GT-6 to add some sizzle since I can't crank it up often.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on February 25, 2008, 03:15:38 PM
I might be technically wrong on this, but in my experience, valve powered amps are just plain louder than solid state. I've had a couple of 40 watters that could drown 100 watt stacks, and keep up with some very hard hitting drummers.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Nebu on February 25, 2008, 03:18:49 PM
I can tell you this; my neighbors hate my 2x15 bass box.  My ampeg head makes my basement shake.  I was playing "Peg" by Steely Dan on bass last night and got a knock on my door at about 10:15pm.  It made my day. 


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on February 25, 2008, 03:26:29 PM
Even a modern solid state bass head can get really loud (I mean, they're usually up in the 400-500 watt range), but if you've got one of those old ampeg heads, that's pretty sick.

As for Sky's amp, I've seen people gig with them often. Couldn't say the same, for say, a twenty watt Peavey.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Righ on February 25, 2008, 03:55:17 PM
Its largely to do with circuit efficiency. Depending on the type of power tubes and the circuit used, a tube amplifier may sound 2-5 times louder than a transistor amplifier of similar wattage. Watts are not a measure of volume, just power handling/consumption. Two different solid-state circuits of 100W each may amplify a source by different amounts at the same gain too. More affordable tube circuits tend to allow for greater sustain than their solid state counterparts. This also adds to a perceived increase in volume.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Selby on February 25, 2008, 11:07:49 PM
I decided to start playing guitar semi-seriously again since I have a nice amp sitting here and someone has mentioned actually getting together and playing cover songs from Guitar Hero on REAL instruments as a parody, so I've re-started a routine again.  I picked up some Bad Religion over the past few days and it's gone pretty well, feeling pretty good.  Then I decided to open back up and re-start the Slayer setlist I used to be able to run through.  I started with a quick one, The Antichrist and remembered all the chord changes and whatnot then I ran it through a few times.  My hands are killing me now.  I am seriously out of practice.  But having a nice amp sure makes up for all the shit sound I used to have back in high school and college, so I don't sound completely terrible (just mostly terrible).


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on February 26, 2008, 12:19:01 AM
I wish I could play Behind the Crooked Cross. Probably the grooviest thing they ever did (as much as Slayer can get into a groove at least). I know how to play it.. Just can't do it for long. Too much downpicking for me. And that's a slower Slayer song!


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on February 26, 2008, 08:44:34 AM
I can tell you this; my neighbors hate my 2x15 bass box.  My ampeg head makes my basement shake.  I was playing "Peg" by Steely Dan on bass last night and got a knock on my door at about 10:15pm.  It made my day. 
I miss my old rig. It was the cheapest thing imaginable, the (solid state) amp was something our singer used to use in rehearsals, but ended up having absolutely sick tone, a Kasino Koncert, iirc. Don't remember the wattage, but through my peavey 2x15 loaded with a couple 400W EV full ranges it was sick. Real loud but tight and punchy.

I've probably mentioned I now have a decent ampeg 8x10, but can't work up the budget to get a decent head for it. And of course, some new pickups for my bass at some point, too. The blues guys from the jam all wish I'd take up bass again, so many guitarists around. That's why I'm trying to work on vocals, because a guitarist + vocals is way more desirable (and fun), and gives the house band a break from singing. So you're hearing more bass in my recordings as I learn some blues lines (at least more authentic than Geezer lines like I played in Thrill is Gone, heh).

Downpicking. Mine is sad these days. Back in the mid-80s when I was still playing guitar and we were doing thrash...I was a downpicking monster, although the other guy in my band was a genetic freak of precise timing, so I always worked syncopated stuff around that. I remember some local guitarists that tried to sit in with us once Metallica got big, everyone loved to cover Master. We played it double time, heh. Was cool and punky. Trying to downpick it at album speed is just beyond what I can sustain now, I can do some short sections but the verse sections break down. And that's a pretty slow downpicked song imo (at least, the album version).


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on March 07, 2008, 12:50:14 PM
Just saw these guys. Wish I had grabbed a vid of their opening suite of Bach stuff (Bach is my favorite composer by far).

Went home and played my entire book of Bach Inventions. Fiancee was happy, she asked me "How many people do you think got a third set of guitar tonight?" :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S1MQeCsnAE


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Abagadro on March 08, 2008, 12:58:57 AM
Ok, I'm sure this has been covered, but maybe not in these exact terms, so whatever.

I'm thinking about picking up the axe again after 15 years. My old guitar was stolen years ago, so recommend a good model for me to grab that doesn't cost a fortune. I'm a big fan of the Les Paul Cherry Sunburst if that give you any indication of the style I'm looking for. I'd say my budget tops out at around a grand.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Selby on March 08, 2008, 01:48:15 AM
I'm thinking about picking up the axe again after 15 years.
I would personally just go around to various pawn shops in the area and play what they have and buy the cheapest guitar that you like that doesn't have major issues like a warped neck or broken tuners.  If you stick with it and enjoy it afterwards, then look into getting a newer guitar.  My favorite guitar is this one:

(http://www.slyagent.com/geetar.jpg)

which I picked up at a pawn shop for $50.  It plays better and feels nicer than almost every higher end guitar I've played in the music shops.  It was darn well worth it to wait despite the fact that everyone gives me shit about how awful it looks.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on March 08, 2008, 08:47:44 AM
Try out the Epiphone Les Pauls. But really, I found the best bet is to hit the local music stores and play everything. Everything! I went in expecting to buy a strat and now I'm a total Gibson SG convert. Well, 61 reissue convert, most SGs suck.

I'm still kicking myself for not buying the limited edition run of 400 black with gold hardware 61 reissues. Grr, damn you, self!

Boom ka-blam: linky (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/navigation/epiphone-guitars-basses-accessories-solid-body-electric-guitars?N=100001+306241+200990)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on March 08, 2008, 01:14:14 PM
If you're willing to spend just under a grand, you've opened a lot of options for yourself. No offense to Selby, but I generally wouldn't recommend pawn shops though. Used guitar shops are better. It's very possible to find a used cherryburst LP in one of them -- and not get fucked in the process.

Or like Sky said, check out some of the Epi's (it's basically Gibson's "budget" brand). Some of the more expensive $1k range Epi's are using better materials than the cheaper $1k range Gibsons. They're equipped with some of the better woods and parts that Gibson uses in it's best guitars, but cheap because they're assembled overseas.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Selby on March 08, 2008, 01:19:38 PM
Used guitar shops are better.
Naturally, but the hardest part I had was growing up in a town without one.  There were 2 music shops that sold guitars and entry level price was $800 for an acoustic.  As a 15 year old who wanted to learn to play, that was cost prohibitive from a practical and realistic standpoint ($800 just to find out I dislike it?).  Plus the people that worked there were douchebags who ridiculed your playing style and guitar choices if it didn't match theirs.  I preferred pawn shops because the people left me alone and I took a friend who knew guitars and what to look for with me who said "this is a problem" or "this can be fixed easily."  I always forget that bigger cities have used music shops that may actually contain helpful people ;-)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on March 08, 2008, 01:30:12 PM
Fair enough!


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on March 12, 2008, 08:25:18 AM
Motherfucker. I've finally got the "hybrid picking" part down on White Wedding -- but now I can't transition the volume right when he starts striking chords afterwards.  :uhrr:

Such a simple song, but playing it the way he does requires some subtle picking mastery.

On another Stevens' note, I found this track : Link (http://www.playcast.ru/uploads/2008/01/07/439651.mp3)

Kinda corny sounding, yes... But pretty cool playing. I thought the beginning was a synth at first.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Miasma on March 12, 2008, 02:33:41 PM
Gibson gets into the predatory patent game. (http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/technology/tech-activision-gibson.html)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: penfold on March 13, 2008, 03:55:25 PM
Gibson gets into the predatory patent game. (http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/technology/tech-activision-gibson.html)

That's a particularly stupid lawsuit. They were in partnership with Activision for years on GH, there's prior art in form of some of the Japanese Bemani games, and the patent itself doesn't resemble GH at all.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on March 17, 2008, 04:56:29 AM
Lol, before I begin, yes, I'm still on a Steve Stevens kick. Just at the right time, I guess.. A lot of interviews are popping up, since he just released a new album.

I mentioned awhile back that the shit that really gets me about him are those cool little riffs he does on the top strings. In the case of White Wedding, I found this bit really interesting:

Quote
I just want to pull out one last bit about Billy here. “White Wedding”, your rhythm on the verses is different. The accents seem so strange but they’re perfect.

Well that was really influenced by a…there was a band in New York that Billy and I used to go see and it was called, Suicide. And it was a singer/keyboard player; it was only two people on stage. It was the keyboard player was Marty Rev and the singer was Allen Vega. And Allen was sort of this weird kinda Elvis, like this out-of-space Elvis Puerto Rican guy and Marty Rev would play the bass lines with his left hand and then he’d do these keyboard stabs against it. And I remember they had this song called, “The Ghost Rider,” and it had these kinda staccato dotted 1/8th rhythm to it and I thought it was so cool. When we were working on “White Wedding” I said, “What if I do like a Marty Rev idea with the guitar?” and that’s that guitar figure that comes in on the second verse, so I think I was looking at keyboard parts more than guitar parts.

That's the shit.. I never would have guessed he was copping Suicide! (Just for reference: Ghost Rider (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a224CkygvR4))


Anyhow, I got that song down now on acoustic. Hybrid picking and all. I'm so proud of myself.  :-) I haven't actually sat down and learned new techniques in a long time.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on March 18, 2008, 08:48:51 AM
Cool, man! New techniques are so tough when you've got a solid comfort zone. I'm working on the old classical fingerstyle, with all bass strings played by the thumb, I find it very difficult. I'm using the opening melody chords of Sleepwalk (Santo & Johnny, I'm doing the Setzer version (http://youtube.com/watch?v=CMJOPno3jWY)), fingerpicking rather than raking/muting. Great song to play for the fiancee when she lays down for a nap or at bedtime. Funny watching the old Setzer video, he plays it so much smoother and confidently now.

I've also started working on Devil Went Down to Georgia, it's nowhere near as tough as I thought it'd be. Just one of those songs I know from my youth that has a magic appeal of zomgtough fast playing.

As always, memorizing the parts is way harder than actually playing them, for me.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on March 18, 2008, 09:08:25 AM
Sleepwalk is one of my favorites. I don't play it like Setzer, but I've always liked playing it without a slide, as he does. The difference is that he chords everything, which is cool, but I prefer to drop the chords after the intro and play the leads by themselves. I like the sound of the original Santo and Johnny version, but since it takes two guitarists, I just compensate with a lot of feedback!


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on March 18, 2008, 10:23:35 AM
I'm really trying to focus in on chording, too. So it works out well. I'm doing a lot of exercises like only using three strings and trying to invert chords to fit in different positions and stuff. It's tough as hell and half the time I feel like I'm barely making sense....but it works out and sounds great. Good mental exercise, though I need to concentrate more on notes and names rather than shapes and numbers.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on March 19, 2008, 08:34:51 AM
I don't think I'll ever truly think in notes. Not to say I don't care about musical arrangements making sense.. I do, of course... But it's just more of an intuitive thing. I know the basics, and the rest of my musical sense is just garnered from all of the listening I do. I'm not sure what thinking in notes would change? To me, what really determines your sound is simply what's influencing you. Not necessarily an understanding of theory. And I don't mean just the stuff that I like, but also the stuff that I hate too!  :-P


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on March 19, 2008, 01:16:01 PM
Yeah, but theory allows you the freedom to go beyond a few memorized riffs and really open up to playing what you hear inside.

That's where a lot of jazz starts to fall down, when it becomes theory and technique for it's own sake (I won't even get into deconstructionism).

But for me, playing around with theory allows me to play in any position comfortably and to try out new chord shapes to keep the very basic style of music I play fresh and interesting, without getting in the way of the passion that is integral to the style.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on March 19, 2008, 03:12:36 PM
Yeah, I hear ya on that. I could use a little more understanding, just for the sake of transitioning well in different positions, etc.. I guess I'm just saying that it's not really a starting point for me as far as composing goes (sounds like you're saying the same thing). Usually when I hear someone who writes from their heavy understanding of theory and technical prowess, then it sounds lifeless.

Although... Every once in awhile, a guy comes along (say, Randy Rhoads) who has both elements in spades. Nothing to be mocked at all!


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Selby on March 19, 2008, 10:11:33 PM
So, anyone have problems with their finger tips splitting open and bleeding every now and again?  I never used to have this problem when I played for hours on end, but ever since I've been playing more regularly I noticed that every other week or so I split a finger tip playing and it hurts like hell for 3-4 days before I can play again.  Any advice for how to better care for my fingers?  My guitar instructor was a classical guitarist and said there was an art to maintaining your fingers as well as your technique, but he died before I could find out what he meant by that.

And for the record I am not playing that much or that hard, just an hour or two every other day or so.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on March 20, 2008, 01:58:36 AM
My guitar instructor was a classical guitarist and said there was an art to maintaining your fingers as well as your technique, but he died before I could find out what he meant by that.

Hah! Man, I'm sorry, but that's pretty funny. It sounds like the plot to Dragonslayer. Or dozens of kung-fu flicks.  :wink:


Anyways, I've never had the problem of bleeding per se, but I suggest that you simply keep trying to play as much as possible. Play more, not less. Eventually you'll develop callouses and toughen up.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on March 21, 2008, 09:00:05 AM
Where, exactly? Nail bed, pad? Nail bed is from heavy bending, and it's awful...and nothing you can really do about it except superglue it shut. I call that procedure 'The SRV'. Splitting on the actual pads is odd. Are your calluses healthy or all gnarly? Mine can get pretty gnarly because my fiancee refuses to do dishes (and I do all the cooking  :oh_i_see:), if I play guitar with the calluses moist it wreaks havoc on them. When I was unloading trucks, I always had to moisturize them because the cardboard sucked all the moisture out and that's really the only time I've ever had anything with bleeding on my left fingers.

I'd say it's probably best to stop playing until the splits heal or you'll exacerbate the wound.

On my right hand, I'm used to that being a mess. I don't play enough bass to keep it properly callused, so I always get blisters. Played some metal bass with some guys about 6 or 7 years ago and my middle and index fingers blistered, broke open, and bled all over the place. I kept playing. I did feel bad about the bass...since it was borrowed and bloody. So metal, though. Didn't hurt until after we got done playing, I get a wicked adrenaline high when I play.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Selby on March 21, 2008, 08:28:47 PM
Nail bed once (OUCH, took like 2 weeks to heal).  Mostly just the pad.  It's only on my ring finger, never the index or middle (or pinky, but it isn't used all of the time and is the wimpiest).  They are pretty healthy and decent on all fingers except my ring.  It's all funky-fied and cratered (which is odd) and there isn't a ton of sensation in the tip of it compared to the rest of my fingers (except when you know, it's split open and bleeding).  It's healed and I can play again, but it sure is strange.

I do all of the dishes too.  I also work with transformer oil alot and rubbing alcohol\arctic silver on a regular basis recently.  I have thought about moisturizing, but I'm not sure if that would help or make the situation worse.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on March 24, 2008, 12:42:28 PM
Learned the bulk of Stray Cat Strut sunday. I wasn't concentrating on learning it so much as analyzing the solo section, so I still have a few fills to actually learn...but I tend to like to learn the thought behind the fill and just throw my own in, less to remember. Setzer is a goddamned master, just picking apart the way he sets up solos, so simple yet so elegant. It reminded me of our talk about theory, he's a great example of theory serving the song rather than the reverse.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on March 24, 2008, 02:08:44 PM
Yeah, he's a very knowledgeable/technical player too... But beautifully simplistic as well.

I never tried learning that one (uh, except the rhythm I guess). I should try that.

[edit] On another note, I need a new acoustic. I'm mainly playing my classical now, because the steel string sucks. It doesn't have a wide enough neck. This is what I've learned with all of this fingerstyle playing I've been doing. I didn't realize that so many fingerstylers are using wide necks this whole time either.. No wonder why they're good.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on March 24, 2008, 02:29:04 PM
Yeah, I need a nylon string something fierce. My steel acoustic really needs a new shim in the bridge, so I've mostly been playing the Baby Taylor for my acoustic stuff. My fingerstyle is partly inspired by my classic training from school, partly from my horrid technique from after school (a mishmash that I adopted just to play songs we were writing, many broken 'rules'), and the inspiration of Conrado Garcia, one of my favorite musicians. He's from Chile and plays in a traditional style, kind of a flamenco. I asked him for tips on certain passages he played and he laughed and said "I just play the way I need to play....don't think about it" So that's what I'm doing, trying to use my previous training while forgetting about it. Kind of hard to explain. But a wider stringing would benefit the single-note runs that are basically from my bass playing style.

Listening to Iron Maiden on Saturday, blisters on my right index finger from my bass. But I can still pump some of that stuff out, I love it. Two songs til blister, and the middle finger didn't actually raise a blister!


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Nebu on March 24, 2008, 02:45:30 PM
Listening to Iron Maiden on Saturday, blisters on my right index finger from my bass. But I can still pump some of that stuff out, I love it. Two songs til blister, and the middle finger didn't actually raise a blister!

I need to start playing Number of the Beast again.  Some nice bass work through that song.  Very straightforward, but fun to play.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on March 24, 2008, 03:23:33 PM
Two songs to blister were: The Trooper and Revelations. The Trooper was one of my warm-up and practice songs. I had it on a tape looped over and over and would play one side of the tape to build my triplets. One tune I've always meant to learn was Rime of the Ancient Mariner, one of my favorite maiden tunes. But what got me pumped up Saturday was the album Iron Maiden, not the Bruce stuff. Don't have much on CD, just Iron Maiden and Live After Death. I'm ashamed to admit it!


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on March 24, 2008, 03:37:07 PM
Yeah, I like that album. Phantom of the Opera  :rock:


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on April 04, 2008, 02:15:51 PM
I haven't picked up  an instrument of any sort in weeks. Just thought I would share. :x


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on April 04, 2008, 02:22:25 PM
BOO ON RAPH!  :angryfist: All work and no play sucks!

I've been wanting to make my live debut for a couple months now, but circumstances are kicking my ass. Haven't been to an open mic this year, iirc. Maybe in Jan? Don't remember, don't think so. I think the last one was December, it's a massive jam and fund-raiser.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Selby on April 04, 2008, 05:44:50 PM
I re-remembered how to play Over The Hills And Far Away by Zeppelin the other night.  Amazing how quickly it comes back when you just glance over the tab and make a few run throughs.  I used to play it all from memory without missing a beat.  I used to be good dammit, what happened?  Oh yeah, I went to college for 6 years after deciding that music would never be a good money maker.  I've even taught myself 3-4 songs over the last few weeks too just for fun and I'm amazed at how easy it is becoming again.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Cadaverine on April 04, 2008, 08:31:38 PM
Stupid newb guitar player question incoming.

Since reading this thread has rekindled my urge to learn to play guitar, along with watching black snake moan, I went out, got a guitar, and have been practicing scales, and such.

Anywho, I've noticed that I tend to "fat finger" things a good bit, particularly chords. It just seems that my fingers tend to overlap, and touch other strings unless I really concentrate on it, to the point of having to bend the strings away from each other a bit while contorting my hand in new and unusual ways.  Is this par for the course as a newb, or is it just the guitar, which is just a cheap Burton for learning purposes, or my fingers just to thick, and I am just SOL, or some combination of the three.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: sidereal on April 04, 2008, 09:09:00 PM
I doubt you're SOL.  I've seen guys with fingers as big as a side of beef fingertap.

I assume your problems come when you try to play the same fret on adjacent strings.  One solution with big fingers is to stagger your fingers a bit, sort of like a stair case instead of a straight vertical line.  You can buzz if you get too far from the fret bar, but you just have to press a little harder.  In other cases you can bar instead of using a finger per string, meaning you use the side of one finger to fret a bunch of adjacent strings.  About half the guitar players I know bar E minor and A major chords, for example.  The trick here is avoiding barring the other strings, although you can be sloppy with chords generally and it won't cause problems.  Another option is getting a guitar with a wider neck.  Classicals tend to have much wider necks.  But then you need to deal with more stretching and finger yoga to make up for it.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on April 05, 2008, 01:28:45 PM
Could be just newb problems... Not sure. My hands are big too, but I don't run into quite the same problems (can't recall if I ever did). I do know that I do some things weird... Like how I finger power chords --- with my index and pinky, instead of index and ring finger.




Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Selby on April 05, 2008, 09:40:38 PM
I do power chords with my index and then ring and pinky.  Gives middle finger the chance to do something crazy from time to time and more control over what the other two strings are sounding.  And I''ve got extremely long fingers (not overly fat, but just long) so I've had this problem whenever I learn new finger positions or new songs using strange positioning compared to what I am used to.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on April 07, 2008, 08:03:42 AM
Yeah, you probably just need to learn what works for you. I've got short fingers with wide tips, so I don't do a whole lot high on the neck and the open A chord is a stone bitch for me (actually that chord shape in any position is difficult). I usually just bar it. Only chord I really have trouble with, but not much I can do - simply a limitation of genetics.

Not nearly as bad as having short fingers on a bass, that was tough, way more movement than necessary.

I fake the solo in Over the Hills. On a bootleg, Ottawa Sunshine, Page plays the high part at the end of the beginning section (the part just before the band kicks in) over the space between the verses. So I do that sometimes. Watching Page live is great, you can really get a feel for his intention for a song, which parts are written and which are to be jammed (most).


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Selby on April 07, 2008, 09:31:34 PM
...and the open A chord is a stone bitch for me
If I have a bad night with it, I lay down my middle finger on the 4 & 3 string and use the ring for the 2.  Terrible form, but it works sometimes.  I really try and stagger the fingers to get them all on the fret without having interference, but I usually mute one of them on accident.  Just more things to practice.

Watching Page live is great, you can really get a feel for his intention for a song, which parts are written and which are to be jammed (most).
All of the people I have ever played with refused to even think about covering a Zep song.  It's some "sacred ground" that absolutely has to be played perfectly every time to be worthy of Page's honor.  Anything less is heresy.  I always ask if they ever heard Zeppelin live or saw how Page plays, but they say it doesn't matter.  Hell, the 2-3 live albums I have of theirs, half the songs have a consistent basic structure and various licks and solo changes that are completely different than the album version.  And it all works.  Purists can really annoy me sometimes (I've probably bitched about this before).


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on April 08, 2008, 08:23:08 AM
Not to mention Page was often wicked sloppy. I didn't like him when I was a kid, for that reason. I can definitely appreciate it now, though.

Purists, bah. I ignore 'em, you can't really win them over to an improvisational mindset if they're not there already. Why not just hire a DJ? One thing I was working on a while ago was taking Clapton's shitty mid-career rock stuff and forging it into delta/chicago blues ala muddy. After Midnight lyrics over Catfish Blues music. Stuff like that is fun.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Nebu on April 08, 2008, 08:37:39 AM
If you want to appreciate Page, just listen to Satriana, Malmsteen, and Dream Theater.  Yes, those other guys are technically clean but it sure does get sterile and boring after a while.  Page and Clapton I can listen to for hours. 


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on April 08, 2008, 09:31:57 AM
There's a Satch concert that's been doing the rounds on the HD circuit. He has moments (Satch Boogie), but for the most part it's almost laughable. Dream Theater I haven't listened to a ton of, but I haven't liked anything I've heard. Malmsteen also has moments of greatness (Black Star).

Clapton is ok, I liked him a lot more before I got into the blues deeply. I like his Mayall stuff, the Yardbirds stuff, but that's a bit...I dunno, spastic? All the sped-up blues the brits did. My favorite Clapton album is From the Cradle, I also like his Johnson tribute.

But I lean more towards Muddy, who has always surrounded himself with great players. Buddy Guy is great, his phrasing and spontaneity is still amazing (and he turns 72 this year iirc). Otis Rush, Junior Wells on harp. So many great blues players, and it's almost never about technicality, it's all technique and feel. Bends, vibrato, phrasing rather than a scale lexicon and speed. Some of the later cats like Luther Allison and Son Seals are badass, too. Then you can crawl back to the acoustic era and really get blown away by guys like Big Bill Broonzy. To me, they're still the best. I remember reading in a blues history book written in the 60s, talking about the transition to electric around WW2. The electric bands had a real difficult time meshing with the old-timers because the acoustic guys wouldn't leave any room for them to play. Their feet were the percussion, they played the bass, rhythm and melody lines and sang. And loud enough to be heard over a bar-room full of people.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Righ on April 08, 2008, 10:13:27 AM
Add Steve Vai to the list of technical guitarists to sleep through. Not that all technical guitarists are yawn inducing - Robert Fripp is one of the most accomplished guitarists alive, and yet he manages to remain interesting no matter what band or solo thing he's up to. Likewise John McLaughlin. Steve Howe and Allan Holdsworth are somewhere in the middle and can captivate or bore depending on what they do. But yes, there are many more proficient guitarists that are great enough players and who are incredible entertainers. I wouldn't put Ritchie Blackmore, Jimmy Page, Brian May, The Edge or even Jeff Beck into the same league technically as virtuosos such as Fripp or Howe, but they're certainly among the 'best' guitarists as far as this listener is concerned.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on April 08, 2008, 11:07:49 AM
It seems a lot of jazz players get lured down the technical path, too. There's always been something about jazz I don't care for, yet my favorite guitarist is probably Setzer, who I'd put squarely in the jazz vein. But he knows how to keep music as the most important element and let his technicality serve the song, rather than wankers who think the song is just a backdrop for their technicality.

I guess that goes into jam music, too. Though I'm all about extended improvisation these days, I don't like most jam bands. The songs suck and are just wankery excuses. But throw on some Allman Brothers, where the jamming is in the context of a great song with killer hooks, and it works great. My current favorite 'jam' album is Fleetwood Mac's Live in Boston (http://www.amazon.com/Live-Boston-Dig-Fleetwood-Mac/dp/B00007FZGA/). I've had it a couple years now and I never get tired of it. Peter Green and Kirwin pwn.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Nebu on April 08, 2008, 01:44:51 PM
I still contend that the only people that enjoy true jazz music are the ones playing it. 

I'll second the Fleetwood Mac recommendation. 


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Amarr HM on April 08, 2008, 06:39:16 PM
Heavier gauge strings help for detuning but it really depends on how much I play open C tuning and use 0.11 on my leccy guitars. Jimi used to downtune a half step(correction made by stray) and use heavyish strings for a more gritty tone. but I presume you might be talking for metal and be downtuning a couple or more octaves. Also if you have a floating bridge I hear it can cause some problems (I reluctantly removed mine from my strat cause I write a lot of music in open tunings.)

Also my contention is the majority of people are happy to hear guitarists who play with a bit of feel and pizazz over someone who is lightning fast, its a form of expression not motor car racing.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on April 08, 2008, 07:09:48 PM
Jimi just downtuned a half step, @ Eb. He played normal .010's and .011's. He used an Octavio for getting those weird sounds (and it was an "octave up", not octave down pedal). You can't even downtune an octave on a guitar, no matter how big your strings. Can't even do it on a B baritone (.70-ish gauge) well either. You need a true baritone, which is closer to a bass than a guitar.

[edit] Umm... If you're having trouble playing in C on a strat, then first off get another spring (usually they only come with 3). Or at the very least, tighten the spring tension more. You don't need to hardtail it. Then give your truss rod a quarter clockwise turn, just a little more stiffness. Helps to get a mix-matched string set as well -- like a .010-.060. Your small E string doesn't need to be .011 necessarily (unless you want it to, which is cool), but you're better off with fatter low E and A strings. For the sake of convenience, GHS makes a Zakk Wylde set that's 10-60 gauge. E is 60, A is 52. Would work well whether you're in Open C or drop C.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Righ on April 08, 2008, 09:31:39 PM
My current favorite 'jam' album is Fleetwood Mac's Live in Boston (http://www.amazon.com/Live-Boston-Dig-Fleetwood-Mac/dp/B00007FZGA/). I've had it a couple years now and I never get tired of it. Peter Green and Kirwin pwn.

Excellent album. My current favorites include Man's Be Good To Yourself At Least Once A Day (http://www.amazon.com/Good-Yourself-Least-Once-Day/dp/B0000011LA) and Mountain's Twin Peaks (http://www.amazon.com/Twin-Peaks-Mountain/dp/B00000252J). 


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Amarr HM on April 08, 2008, 09:59:03 PM
Jimi just downtuned a half step, @ Eb. He played normal .010's and .011's. He used an Octavio for getting those weird sounds (and it was an "octave up", not octave down pedal). You can't even downtune an octave on a guitar, no matter how big your strings. Can't even do it on a B baritone (.70-ish gauge) well either. You need a true baritone, which is closer to a bass than a guitar.

[edit] Umm... If you're having trouble playing in C on a strat, then first off get another spring (usually they only come with 3). Or at the very least, tighten the spring tension more. You don't need to hardtail it. Then give your truss rod a quarter clockwise turn, just a little more stiffness. Helps to get a mix-matched string set as well -- like a .010-.060. Your small E string doesn't need to be .011 necessarily (unless you want it to, which is cool), but you're better off with fatter low E and A strings. For the sake of convenience, GHS makes aZakk Wylde set that's 10-60 gauge. E is 60, A is 52. Would work well whether you're in Open C or drop C.

Yeh ur right half step is what I meant actually my terminology isn't great being kinda self taught or from just watching others. Needed to switch tunings quickly playing live sometimes and hence had to put a shaped wooden block against the springs (no truss rod for me til I get that back to normal). Was playing live with 3/4 different tunings and didn't have enough guitars to pass around so was best option at the time & tbh I don't do much truss rod work so not suffering for it.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Selby on April 08, 2008, 10:12:36 PM
Add Steve Vai to the list of technical guitarists to sleep through.
Steve Vai... is one of those guitarists who I only liked one aspect of their work, that of his time with Zappa.  His solo work is yawn inducing for me, even if it is technically brilliant at times.

Steve Howe did some amazing work on several Yes albums, but alot of it is just... so uninspiring.  I mean so much of it gets lost in the mix of keyboards and flutes and other wacky stuff it makes it hard for me to take it seriously.  My guitar instructor worshipped Steve Howe and could play any song he ever put to record.

Dream Theatre... ugh.  I bought one album of theirs that was supposedly their "best" at the time.  I couldn't believe how boring it was.  I pretty much don't buy albums based on "sounds like artist X, Y" that most music links try and put together, because they suck ;-)

My favorite guitarist are always ones who aren't recognized as "geniuses" or "virtuosos" but people whose playing I just admire.  A good punk record can be more enjoyable than some of the most technically proficient and well played guitar work in my opinion.  A good song is a good song regardless of genre.  Technical wankery minus a good song is just technical wankery.  Put a good song with it and keep the wanking to the song's structure and you have a recipe for delight.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on April 08, 2008, 11:50:35 PM
Yeh ur right half step is what I meant actually my terminology isn't great being kinda self taught or from just watching others. Needed to switch tunings quickly playing live sometimes and hence had to put a shaped wooden block against the springs (no truss rod for me til I get that back to normal). Was playing live with 3/4 different tunings and didn't have enough guitars to pass around so was best option at the time & tbh I don't do much truss rod work so not suffering for it.

Ah yeah, I have the same problem sometimes (lots of tunings, not enough guitars).

Truss rods... Yeah, you can screw up a guitar big time if you don't know what you're doing.. But like I said, little quarter turns are the key. If you don't see a difference after a couple of days, then do another quarter turn. As long as you know that, you're a-ok. People who screw up their necks turn multiple rounds, not realizing what a dramatic difference that makes.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on April 09, 2008, 08:10:24 AM
NEED MOAR GEETARS :)

I need to make a winter shim for my Alvarez acoustic. It's been sitting in the closet with the first string unplayable all winter. Still frets out on bends around the 10-13 on the 1st string, it's pretty cheap and the fretboard humps a little over the body connection :| Anyway, it's playable now and I love it because it has a built-in tuner. Only time I play the Rain Song is when that guitar is 'in season'.

I've also mentioned I keep my old crappy electric around with the action raised very high to play slide on. I need to learn an easy memory trick for transitioning from open G to open E/D. I love open G for the old Muddy Waters/delta stuff but Allmans/Trucks and a lot of other more modern stuff uses open E. And then there's later era Muddy/Margolin/Haynes slide in standard tuning...but I bash the shit out of the slide and don't want to mess up my beloved SG with it...

NEED MOAR GEETARS!!!


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on April 09, 2008, 11:58:16 AM
I don't play slide much in open G either. Really like Open E though. I have no idea how those dudes played slide in standard.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on April 09, 2008, 01:32:43 PM
Lots of chord fragments. Problem with open tunings is learning scale positions and chord fragments. I find it very limiting to do anything beyond some basic riffs in open tunings.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Amarr HM on April 09, 2008, 03:16:38 PM
Ah yeah, I have the same problem sometimes (lots of tunings, not enough guitars).

Truss rods... Yeah, you can screw up a guitar big time if you don't know what you're doing.. But like I said, little quarter turns are the key. If you don't see a difference after a couple of days, then do another quarter turn. As long as you know that, you're a-ok. People who screw up their necks turn multiple rounds, not realizing what a dramatic difference that makes.

I got a guitar tech to do it to be on the safe side its an  1954 anniversary USA strat I wasn't goin messin with it cost me enough but worth every penny love it.

One thing about open tunings is that G C and D all have the same chord shapes except you move a string across C G D (in that order) same for the slide licks.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on April 09, 2008, 03:37:02 PM
Cool. Is that one of the masterbuilt ones?

Anyhow, it's easy. Unless your tech is doing it for free, it's good to know this stuff. I am/used to be a guitar tech btw. Trust me. Muhaha  :wink:


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Amarr HM on April 10, 2008, 01:35:09 AM
It has the original contour body and the original machine heads but I don't think its a masterbuild is there somewhere I can check it? Its one of the nicest guitars I've ever picked up much less to own it  :-)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on April 10, 2008, 02:13:28 AM
I don't know about limited Custom Shop models if that's what it is, but masterbuilt guitars usually have a decaled name of the builder on the back of the headstock.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Amarr HM on April 10, 2008, 03:14:45 AM
Right it ain't masterbuilt that would have been a bonus. Playing slide in standard tuning ain't so bad cause you know most of the positions already although if you mean solo slide players playing in standard then I have no clue how that could be done.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on April 10, 2008, 08:30:27 AM
Well, playing a C, G or a D isn't very difficult with a slide in open tunings. Playing a C, G7 and Am in the same tuning...not so easy.

There's never enough time to play guitar imo. Here's a guy who knows how to play properly in open G:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=pJQNiYQqmIQ

I like the version Johnny Winter does on Hard Again, it swings a lot more. Keb Mo did a nice version on the Tribute to Muddy PBS special, real snap on the A#, which Margolin said Muddy always used to bust his balls about (not snapping it hard enough).

Playing around watching the Keb Mo clip again, I noticed a pretty hot related link:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=0891fMsvBy4

I need to learn that tune bluesy like that! Most need to learn open G better and get an independent thumb. My thumb/bass lines are always my weakest thing with acoustic blues. Back when I linked my first recorded slide tune (Can't Be Satisfied) here, the bass was awful, uneven and frenetic.

Since I'm posting links, here's one of the tunes I have pretty well under the belt and want to debut at the blues jam assuming I ever make it to another one :P http://youtube.com/watch?v=8MlHxDsaWMU


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Amarr HM on April 10, 2008, 09:44:54 AM
Ha nice links not really listened to much keb mo but very cool must get more of his stuff. Open D is great for practicing thumbwork the 6th string (E) is your bass lines and you if you have the thumbpick (Im a leftie so I have to order mine in :( ) You can get some real nice snapping going on.


Went to see this guy last year hes techinically awesome slide playin. Probably playing slide since he was 3 years old.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=3hMIdxb_pYY&feature=related


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on April 10, 2008, 10:56:56 AM
The location of the root isn't the problem, it's my problem of not being able to play two things independently. Not sure I'll ever surmount it, it's the same reason I'll never be a good drummer, I can't keep a steady hi-hat while playing syncopation on the drums. I also don't use thumb or fingerpicks, I originally learned to play classical style and then my fingerwork was honed during the years I played bass.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on April 10, 2008, 01:58:51 PM
I just like open E/D for the bluesy slide riffs, and Open G for rock riffs or folky stuff. If I could play blues in G more, I would. I can kind of fake an RJ style, but it's buzzy and sketchy. So much plucking. I think this goes to what I saying awhile back about fingerstyles -- I need a wider neck. I play that stuff better on a classical, but it needs a steel sound. Besides, nylon sounds like shit with a slide. Once I get a new steel string though, I'm gonna try to improve it.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: penfold on April 11, 2008, 02:40:15 PM
You can't even downtune an octave on a guitar, no matter how big your strings. Can't even do it on a B baritone (.70-ish gauge) well either. You need a true baritone, which is closer to a bass than a guitar.


The current Metal solution to down tuning is add more strings. Dino Cazares talks about it extensively in this Ibanez 8 string promo. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-tIw6XAuPA)

There's a track on Meshuggah's Nothing album that used a detuned 7 string to BbO.






Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Selby on April 11, 2008, 06:50:33 PM
The current Metal solution to down tuning is add more strings.
And yet half of these bands still can't write a tune to save their life.  Blast beats and de-tuned 1 finger races up the fretboard combined with gutteral groans or tough guy screams.  Just a tad one-dimensional...  Adding one more string to the mix isn't going to make up for writing boring songs!


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Righ on April 11, 2008, 07:20:38 PM
That's okay, listen to the other half of the bands. Meshuggah's mesmeric polyrhythms and instrumental interplay is anything but boring.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on April 11, 2008, 08:35:11 PM
Messhugah's cool. Drummer is sick.

I'm just confused on how they'd get a 7 string to "BbO" -- assuming you mean Bb, but a full octave down? A standard 7 string tuning starts off in a low B. So do you just mean they tune down half a step to Bb? Because as far as I can tell, getting a full octave down seems impossible. The neck isn't long enough -- and B is already low to begin with.

Besides that, Bb but an octave lower would just be the 6th fret of the low E on a standard 4 string bass. I mean, if you want an octave lower, then just play a bass! If it's the feel/thickness of bass strings you're concerned about, then play something like a Fender Bass VI (or Schecter's Hellcat VI). You can riff quite well on them (a lot of Cure songs use them, to give an example).


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Righ on April 11, 2008, 10:18:56 PM
I think you're right - just standard Bb:

http://www.deadtide.com/interviews/page.php?id=41


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: penfold on April 12, 2008, 08:54:06 AM
Ah i confess to reading about the BbO tuning elsewhere. I just know it's looooow.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Selby on April 12, 2008, 09:27:36 AM
Messhugah's cool. Drummer is sick.
Minus their vocals, I have to agree that their earlier stuff is pretty cool.  I haven't listened to anything they've done since 2002 or so, so I can't really comment.  My problem is more with the lame opening bands I have to suffer through opening good metal bands ;-)  That and Hatebreed.  I don't see why they are worshipped so and I've seen them live twice.  Tons of energy and decent stage presence... just every song sounds the same and does not excite me.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Llava on April 12, 2008, 10:33:57 AM
Here you go, have fun:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=jIf6Z4cOQSA&feature=related

I'm still practicing with the bass, Paul McCartney makes me angry.  RELAX MAN.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on April 13, 2008, 01:08:29 AM
Did the Taylor factory tour on Friday. The T5 is sweet, didn't get to try any of the new solidbody models, none were in the visitor center. Did get to see some of the Builder's Reserve half-built. All of them preordered going back to January.

Tonight saw David Wilcox live. He does nutso tunings. BTW, on one of his songs he drilled a larger hole in the tuner to string a bass string thru there, and tuned it down a full octave below whatever it was at.

Peter Mulvey detunes the low E to an A, or sometimes both of 'em to a GG pair.  For what he's doing he wants the buzzy sound, and frets 'em together. This is actually an F# in the bass, the rest capoed at the 5th fret, I think.

http://www.last.fm/music/Peter+Mulvey/_/If+Love+is+Not+Enough

I did a tune with it that way too, don't have a recording of it though; I actually tuned AADGAD, then capoed the four higher strings at the 7th fret.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on April 14, 2008, 12:46:02 AM
OK, here's a bit of a trainwreck. :)

http://www.raphkoster.com/2008/04/13/the-sunday-song-polliwog/

200bpm blues jam trainwreck! Whee!  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on April 14, 2008, 02:53:54 AM
Here you go, have fun:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=jIf6Z4cOQSA&feature=related

I'm still practicing with the bass, Paul McCartney makes me angry.  RELAX MAN.

Uh, video's dead.

OK, here's a bit of a trainwreck. :)

http://www.raphkoster.com/2008/04/13/the-sunday-song-polliwog/

200bpm blues jam trainwreck! Whee!  :awesome_for_real:

Yes, a bit of a trainwreck.  :wink:

Are all of those real instruments? I can't tell with the drums.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Llava on April 14, 2008, 03:09:33 AM
Here you go, have fun:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=jIf6Z4cOQSA&feature=related

I'm still practicing with the bass, Paul McCartney makes me angry.  RELAX MAN.

Uh, video's dead.


Still works for me.

Try this:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=uWAbyFQxqG8


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on April 14, 2008, 03:18:52 AM
Got it now. Funny. Had to search for what song he was referencing though (don't watch the show much).

[edit] In other news, my classical's tuning pegs are thrashed.  :uhrr: Back to playing my shitty takamine steel string -- which not only sucks now to me because of the neck width, but I can't seem to cure of it intonation issues. It's a piece of shit.

I played a Seagull over the weekend. A $500 range guitar, and it sounded SWEET. I'm surprised. Just a mere vibrato on it sounded like it came out of a much more expensive guitar. Neck width suited fingerstyling as well. I may have to get one of these. I'd rather shell out big for an electric.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on April 14, 2008, 08:18:01 AM
Quote
OK, here's a bit of a trainwreck. :)

http://www.raphkoster.com/2008/04/13/the-sunday-song-polliwog/

200bpm blues jam trainwreck! Whee!  :awesome_for_real:

Yes, a bit of a trainwreck.  :wink:

Are all of those real instruments? I can't tell with the drums.

The drums are sample loops. The instruments -- Washburn bass, the Melody Maker for the two electric parts, and the Yamaha P70 with a piano VST.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on April 14, 2008, 08:22:09 AM
Well it sounds like you're having fun, trainwreck or not. I don't think you mentioned before that you finally settled on a keyboard (or did you?).. P70 eh?


I must re-mention Seagull. Have you played any of them? Check em out, if you can. You're a discerning acoustic player. I'd like to know anyone else's opinions.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on April 14, 2008, 09:35:39 AM
I liked some parts of your trainwreck, Raph. Not sure why you jumbled all that together like that, though  :ye_gods: The piano in particular I enjoyed because there a bajillion blues guitarists around, but not many good blues pianists.

I do hate fake drums, though.

Totally jealous you toured Taylor. Want want Taylor classical cutaway. Never played a Seagull.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Furiously on April 14, 2008, 10:09:33 AM
I bought a capo to play the Jeff Buckley Hallelujah version, have to look at the tabs a bit more.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on April 14, 2008, 10:34:14 AM
5th fret capo, basically a G shape chord to Em (C to Am in standard). I can't type the tab here, but the intro is based around E->G->A to umm B, then to the main G/Em rhythm.

...

Eh, I'm sure you find something better to explain it! Pretty easy song, except for singing, of course  :-)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on April 14, 2008, 10:53:32 AM
Quote from: Stray
Well it sounds like you're having fun, trainwreck or not. I don't think you mentioned before that you finally settled on a keyboard (or did you?).. P70 eh?

Yeah, with some venturing into the world of VSTs. The interface on the P70 is terrible for doing anything complex (basically, hold down buttons and press actual keys on the keyboard, while referring to the manual), but it had by far the best keybed of anything I tried -- crushed the M-Audio stuff. But it's not got aftertouch or mod wheels or anything, since it is aimed more at a digital piano. But it sounds really good played by itself. I've been playing it that way for enjoyment, and then for recording I usually run it into VSTs.

Quote
I must re-mention Seagull. Have you played any of them? Check em out, if you can. You're a discerning acoustic player. I'd like to know anyone else's opinions.

I have played Seagulls in stores. They are not bad little guitars. Have made a name for themselves as one of the best choices in an affordable acoustic.

I liked some parts of your trainwreck, Raph. Not sure why you jumbled all that together like that, though  :ye_gods: The piano in particular I enjoyed because there a bajillion blues guitarists around, but not many good blues pianists.

I am NOT a good blues pianist. I am horribly out of practice on piano. I just happen to have this one thing I can still do in F. So I transposed the keyboard so I could play it in F and hear it in the key of E. :)

Far as jumbling it all together -- I was just having fun recording jams one on top of another.  :grin: Plus, setting the pace at 200bpm was not conducive to clean playing. And man, the tone of the second guitar part is awful. :P

Maybe this week I'll do "Polliwog Minus Warts" and try to do it up for real.

Quote
I do hate fake drums, though.

Technically, they are real drums, just in loops.

Quote
Totally jealous you toured Taylor.

Second time I have toured there, actually. Last time was several years ago though. They do tours at 1pm every weekday, just be in the lobby at the right time.

I LOVE Taylor's ES pickup system. It is just amazing. But I have to admit, I have not yet fallen in love with a given Taylor guitar. If I did, I suspect I would suddenly and magically have a multi-thousand dollar hole in my wallet.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on April 14, 2008, 11:06:38 AM
Quote
Technically, they are real drums, just in loops.
:awesome_for_real:
Quote
Plus, setting the pace at 200bpm was not conducive to clean playing.
Eh, fast boogie goes about that fast. Snot about being clean. Sbout jammin.

I do prefer a real slow burn, though. Was playing a real nice slow minor thing for the fiancee this weekend I wish I had recorded. Haven't recorded shit lately. Lost my focus and been dicking around with a bunch of styles. I did come up with a cool idea for a strummy country version of Can't Be Satisfied, though. I was working on an idea of making the melody line of the slide guitar walk through the middle of simple open chords. Needs work but I like the idea, simple but with some clever bits hidden away.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on April 14, 2008, 12:38:38 PM
Here's a habit you should learn: I keep a little memo recorder by me when I jam. If I come up with something good, I press record and repeat. 90% of the stuff I call "recordings" are in this form -- waiting to be looked at later.

As for really good acoustics: Collings (http://www.collingsguitars.com/). Built in Austin. Good shit. Wish I had the cash.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: sidereal on April 17, 2008, 09:58:27 PM
Just picked up a Seagull Performer (http://www.seagullguitars.com/productperformermjcwgt.htm) for DADGAD work.  Very pleased.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on April 17, 2008, 10:23:38 PM
What made you decide on one? Kind of weird that you mentioned it, since I've been looking for more opinions on Seagulls in this thread.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: sidereal on April 17, 2008, 11:02:14 PM
Neat.  I hadn't read the whole thread.

I wanted a deadnought Acoustic/Electric that had good, heavy mid and low tone in dropped D and DADGAD for Celtic, blues, and bluegrass accompaniment.  I've found quite a few guitars can detune a little or get muddy on the higher frets when they're downtuned even a little.  I played quite a few and found the Seagulls had great sound for the money, especially when plugged in.  Everyone online says the electronics are top notch, and the pickup/internal mic combo lets you switch back and forth from solo fingerpicking to strumming.  It came down to a Performer or a Maritime, and the Performer was on sale, so that's that.  If I wanted to spend more, I might have gone with a Takamine, but this is a great guitar. 


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on April 17, 2008, 11:19:40 PM
I can't say that I've played really expensive Takamines, just a couple of midrange ones (and own one as well). A Seagull at the same price is just SO much better to my ears, so I believe you've made the right choice. I need to get one myself. I hate my Takamine, to be honest.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on April 18, 2008, 07:56:33 AM
I'm starting to hate my Alvarez jumbo. The SG and Baby Taylor spoil me. My fiancee doesn't understand, she's attached to the Alvarez because I bought it just after we started dating. I should've planned ahead and bought a nylon Taylor when I proposed to her  :drill:


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Engels on May 03, 2008, 12:43:42 AM
Some fab blues/jazz finger tapping by Stanley Jordan. Dual guitars at around the half way mark (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8DCDrKX4_I)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on May 12, 2008, 09:59:29 AM
The Polliwog is back!  :uhrr:

http://www.raphkoster.com/2008/05/11/the-sunday-song-polliwog-sans-warts/



Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Abagadro on June 08, 2008, 01:55:54 AM
Best. Guitar. Ever.

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y222/Abagadro/Marshall-Guitar-Auction.jpg)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Amarr HM on June 10, 2008, 02:48:18 AM
The older takamines were pretty awesome so if you can pick up a second hand one that was made in the 80s you will be happy a lot of the mid range ones now are extremely mass produced. Still not bad though owned a g-series for a while had a really nice soound out of it but it wasn't a nice guitar to play.

I'm looking to buy a firewire soundcard for recording purposes anyone have suggestions? I'll be using ableton live most likely. Don't need a lot of inputs but more than one would be nice.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Phildo on June 10, 2008, 11:45:48 AM
Not sure about soundcards specifically, but I've always liked Presonus.

http://www.zzounds.com/item--PRSFSPROJECT


Edit: This (http://www.zzounds.com/item--MTUULTRALITE) appears to be awesome as well.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Amarr HM on June 10, 2008, 12:43:57 PM
That MOTU one looks pretty slick, but I forgot to mention my budget is probably only about $300-$350 :S


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on June 10, 2008, 06:23:04 PM
The older takamines were pretty awesome so if you can pick up a second hand one that was made in the 80s you will be happy a lot of the mid range ones now are extremely mass produced. Still not bad though owned a g-series for a while had a really nice soound out of it but it wasn't a nice guitar to play.

I'm looking to buy a firewire soundcard for recording purposes anyone have suggestions? I'll be using ableton live most likely. Don't need a lot of inputs but more than one would be nice.

Mine's a g-series as well... It has a tolerable sound in recording, I guess, but not from my playing perspective. If that makes sense. But yeah, it plays like shit. Err, or maybe it plays like shit because I can't enjoy the sound when I play. Hah!


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Selby on June 10, 2008, 07:47:00 PM
All I have to say is that I just tuned a guitar to C the other night to learn to play Arch Enemy and... man.  Damn that is pretty low.  Makes the guitar sound downright sinister.

Maybe one of you who actually KNOW your guitar tech can help me.  I was given this new lower end Ibanez and it has a funny buzz\vibration when I strike the G string (4th one from the lowest, 3rd highest).  It almost sounds like something rattling\vibrating.  It drives me nuts not playing with an amp turned up to drown it out.  Unfortunately I have no clue as to how to go about getting rid of this noise.  Any geniuses out there who can at least point me in the correct direction?


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Amarr HM on June 11, 2008, 06:08:49 AM
There is a few ways you can do it check inside the hole look towards the neck and there should be a small tunnel for adjusting your neck shape with an alan/hex key. Now be very careful with this you can snap your neck if you overdo it but basically your neck could be too straight right now. To increase the bow of you neck it's counterclockwise I believe. An easier & potentially less damaging solution could be to merely fit heavier gauge strings for playing in open tunings you should essentially have really thick strings and hands like dumptrucks. Final way is a good guitar tech but they can cost.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Amarr HM on June 11, 2008, 06:14:18 AM
Here's a decent vid on how to adjust your truss rod/neck.

http://www.expertvillage.com/video/5024_neck-guitar-acoustic.htm (http://www.expertvillage.com/video/5024_neck-guitar-acoustic.htm)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: penfold on June 11, 2008, 12:51:57 PM
It's buzzing in standard tuning too right? Adjusting the truss rod would be a brave act for a beginner. I'd see a tech myself.

I'm off to the London International Music Show (http://www.londoninternationalmusicshow.com/) this weekend. Looking forward to seeing Paul Gilbert and Yngwie "You've unleashed the fucking fury" (http://www.blabbermouth.net/yngwie_tokyo_flight.mp3) Malsteem, but the exhibitor list doesn't seem to include any major manufacturers at all. Last year they at least had Gibson, Ibanez and Dean.

It's different this year too, this time they have the bass, drum and classical instrument shows on at the same time. I'm looking forward to trying out a whole bunch of instruments I've never played before.



Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Selby on June 11, 2008, 07:50:55 PM
It's buzzing in standard tuning too right? Adjusting the truss rod would be a brave act for a beginner. I'd see a tech myself.
Sure is.  Buzzes regardless of tuning, and only on that one string and none of the others.  Buzzing doesn't get any worse in lower tuning either apparently (or at least not that I noticed).  I don't think the truss rod needs adjusting, the neck is decently straight.  I'd still not adjust it myself ;-)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on June 11, 2008, 11:12:03 PM
I second the tech notion.

Does it only buzz when plucked open, or does it buzz when fretted, and at which frets?

If one string buzzes, it is entirely possible that other strings will as well, when fretted elsewhere. I have played guitars that only buzzed when fretted at the 9th fret, for example.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Selby on June 12, 2008, 06:57:49 AM
Does it only buzz when plucked open, or does it buzz when fretted, and at which frets?
Seems to buzz everywhere.  Open, fretted (from 1-~17), etc.  I've run up and down a bit with the other 5 strings and haven't found any places where they buzz, but that doesn't mean they won't...


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on June 16, 2008, 08:02:49 AM
Check the saddle height and also take the string off and inspect the nut slot. Either might be low.

A truss problem would probably affect more than one string, a fret problem might only affect one string, but probably not the entire run.

My alvarez acoustic has an awful fretting problem during the winter months, keep meaning to fix that. I'd really rather buy a new acoustic than spend the money on a tech, though  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on June 16, 2008, 10:44:11 PM
Took my daughter to a tiny little folk fest held in a local town park. We checked out the Irish fiddling, the craft booths. etc. Then we wandered over to the Open Mike tent, and sat to listen. Some decent performers, but honestly I am probably as good or better. Then they run out of performers, and the emcee starts literally picking people from the audience and putting them on stage. So I did a four-song set and doubled their audience size, with my daughter singing backing vocals. ;)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on June 16, 2008, 10:47:50 PM
Cool beans, man.  :-)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: penfold on June 18, 2008, 12:58:30 PM
The Guitar Show was fun. We got there in time for Paul Gilbert, but the stage was running late so we caught a jam session with Billy Sheehan and Guthrie Govan. Sheehan is really amazing, I've never heard anything like it. I'll forgive him for being OT III, lol. Govan is actually a fellow Essex dweller, and really talented although most of his music is not to my style.

Paul's set was marred by the crew f*cking up his backing tracks, so he just improvised with a few Hendrix songs. Once working he played a couple of fast tunes from his new album, Scarified from his Racer X days and a slower melodic one.

The show itself was ok, I spent most time playing around with different accoustics, there was a hall specialising in accoustic instruments of all sorts. Played most of the big name brands, Taylor, Larrivee, Tanglewood but also ones from UK and European luthiers. My favourite was a cutaway by Patrick James Eggle (http://www.eggle.co.uk/) (7000 USD + !). I also got to play some Spanish guitars, basses, a mandolin, banjo, uke, some lute thing, a cello, lots of Korg synths and pianos, and meet Jim Marshall, who although very old and wheelchair bound, was signing and doing a meet and greet all afternoon. My friends dad met Rick Squire from Yes, and he was over the moon. 

On the way out we caught Yngwie finshing with Far Beyond The Sun, and he always does a great performance of that.





Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: FatuousTwat on June 30, 2008, 08:13:09 PM
Sorry for the necro.

My birthday was on Sunday, and my parents decided to buy me a guitar. I've been interested in learning for quite a long time, but never really had the balls to go and pick one up.

The problem is, I really have no idea how to choose one. What I should buy along with it? Does anyone know of a good program for learning? I would go for private lessons, but I'm broke.

I'm leaning towards a nylon-string, maybe a Yamaha C40? I've heard nothing but good things about it.

Please mention anything I'm forgetting about.

Thanks.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on July 01, 2008, 08:21:57 AM
Why a nylon string? I love them, but they're spaced wider and tough for beginners, even if most schools use them...

I'd say the first thing is the kind of music you intend to play. That will help you figure out the style of guitar, nylons are basically classical and flamenco primarily but Willie Nelson plays one, also.

Secondly, it would really help if you had a guitar-playing friend to help you shop. You definitely need to hit guitar shops, but as a novice, you won't know what to look for and haven't developed a feel for what kind of neck you like.

Thirdly, don't spend a lot of money until you know if you'll stick with it. A few years learning the basics on a cheapo and you will be ready to move up to a mid-range instrument and know what to look for in one.

For instruction, I really like the CAGED method to learn the fretboard. I use this book (http://www.amazon.com/Fretboard-Logic-SE-Reasoning-Arpeggios/dp/0962477060/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1214921872&sr=8-1). You can search on amazon for "fretboard logic", they also have dvds and a big combo box with everything. But the one I linked is the first two books and cheap.

There isn't anything on how to actually play, it's just learning where the chords are and how to find your way around. So you'll need a book or three more specific to the style you want to play. Something like this (http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Rhythm-Guitar-Guide-Blues/dp/1574241389/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1214922094&sr=8-1) or this (http://www.amazon.com/Beginning-Acoustic-Blues-Guitar-Book/dp/0739036734/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1214922138&sr=1-1). Guitar for Dummies (http://www.amazon.com/Guitar-Dummies-Lifestyles-Paperback/dp/0764599046/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1214922215&sr=1-1) is also a good general starter.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: FatuousTwat on July 01, 2008, 12:47:31 PM
Classical is what I am most interested in, that's why I was contemplating a nylon string. Nothing is really set in stone though, if you think that it's a bad choice for a first guitar, I'll think about something else.

I have a friend who owns a guitar, but he doesn't play it much. He plays trombone mainly, I think he just wanted to try something different.

I figured that about $200 bucks was the max I wanted to pay for... Does that sound reasonable?

Thanks for the reply! I'm gonna check those books out.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on July 01, 2008, 01:17:28 PM
That would probably be a great beginning guitar, then. Don't sweat the blues book links I gave you, that was just examples. But the CAGED method can benefit all guitar players, I love it. Helped me break my mental block on playing all over the neck, though that's something I'm still working through 20 years into my playing :)

It's hard for me to recommend classical guitar books for beginners, Raph will yell at me for recommending advanced stuff :) You can check out the Berklee method books (amazon, search for berklee guitar), that is good for learning positions and notation (I prefer tablature, the true guitar notation). I have a couple nice books that are 'easy' classical, but they aren't very instructive. You probably want to get a couple of each, the CAGED and Berklee stuff for mechanics and a couple of easy songbooks (which is a misnomer).

The 'easy' book (http://www.amazon.com/Easy-Classical-Guitar-Gig-Book/dp/0825628334) I'm working through now is filled with some great stuff, but it doesn't really do any chord charts or anything. I also have a nice book of Bach Inventions that I don't see at amazon, for guitar duet.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Selby on July 01, 2008, 08:53:36 PM
I figured that about $200 bucks was the max I wanted to pay for... Does that sound reasonable?
I paid $65 for my first one 12 years ago.  Best investment I ever made.  I didn't even own a second guitar or amp until 18 months ago and I still mainly play the el-cheap-o because I love the way it plays (and haven't found another guitar that I like as much).

I'd say the first thing is the kind of music you intend to play. That will help you figure out the style of guitar, nylons are basically classical and flamenco primarily but Willie Nelson plays one, also.
Very important.  Everyone has their favorite guitar styles.  Where I grew up, Garth Brooks and country music was huge, so that was the guitar everyone said to get (one those bigger acoustic styles, whatever he was playing), "a Gibson" at $2500, or some other guitar they liked and you weren't cool or a real musician unless you had the good stuff.  I knew what music I wanted to play, so I saw what the artists I liked were playing (most list in the album info) or what the local live musicians I liked were doing and took notes.

Secondly, it would really help if you had a guitar-playing friend to help you shop. You definitely need to hit guitar shops, but as a novice, you won't know what to look for and haven't developed a feel for what kind of neck you like.
Also very important.  Nothing can drive a beginner further away than a "comic book guy" music shop (what I had to work with).  A guy who talks down to you and refuses to sell you things or let you try out various guitars?  Keep walking.  Not to mention when you see 30 guitars hanging on the rack and have no idea what to look for besides price, it can be daunting (especially with guys who have been doing this for 35-40 years and seem intimidating).

Thirdly, don't spend a lot of money until you know if you'll stick with it. A few years learning the basics on a cheapo and you will be ready to move up to a mid-range instrument and know what to look for in one.
I quoted this one just because it is so true it bears repeating.  Don't invest any serious money until you know you are going to stick with it or just have tons of cash to blow on a setup that will collect dust.  Like I said earlier, my $65 guitar was all I had for 10 years since I didn't have the money or time to get serious about playing that would require taking it to the next level.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on July 02, 2008, 07:55:49 AM
Since I was playing bass with my band in the last several years, I had sold off my guitars and the last one was stolen. So when I started getting back into it, all I had was my girlfriend's El Cheapo Cort that was all kinds of jacked up. When we split, she let me keep it. When I got serious about playing again, that was what I worked my chops on, I ended up playing it for about six years. I told myself that if I got my chops back to a decent level, I'd buy myself the best guitar in the local shop. It was nice, because by the time I had the nice guitar, I could do justice to owning it and actually appreciate the quality of the instrument. It's still and utter joy to play, I've had it a couple years and it makes me smile every time I pick it up.

A few years on a starter guitar and you can do like I did, just go to the shop, tell them you are going to buy a guitar that day if you find one you like. Then play every single guitar in the shop. I've told the story earlier in this thread, but I went in thinking I was going to buy a Fender Strat, most of my idols play them. I walked out with the Gibson SG 61 reissue because it's the perfect guitar for me.

I'm still kicking myself in the ass for not buying the limited edition they had out a year or two ago. Same exact guitar as mine, black with gold hardware (and made in USA, baby). Maybe I'll get this (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Gibson-Custom-Shop-SG-Custom-Reissue-VOS-Electric-Guitar?sku=517998) in white if I ever have money again (broke due to updating my new house).


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: climbjtree on July 02, 2008, 08:44:44 AM
So I stumbled across this in one of my music folders today. It's a recording of me playing the Indiana Jones theme on a ukulele. The quality is shabby and it's only a few seconds long because it was recorded on a cell phone.

http://www.supload.com/sound_confirm.php?get=481332882.wav (http://www.supload.com/sound_confirm.php?get=481332882.wav)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on July 02, 2008, 09:25:41 AM
Heh, that's cool! I almost busted out the recorder last night, I got hooked on singing Big Bad Bill driving home last night. I have the Van Halen version burned into my psyche but the version I listed to these days is Leon Redbone's, he's so amazing. I can't quite go low enough to do his version justice, so I slipped into a Tom Waits style for it and had a lot of fun. But I was too lazy to boot up the pc and find the chords for it.

Ended up playing some Purple Haze instead, I don't get enough time with the SG these days. I'm mostly playing my Alvarez over at the new house. I'm working on three pieces from the book I linked earlier: a 16th century jig, an 18th century classical piece and a flamenco style piece that I can't play to speed on the alvarez because the strings are too close together - there's a single note triplet in the main melody. I can physically play it thanks to my bass experience, but need a nylon stringer to do it.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: climbjtree on July 02, 2008, 01:36:06 PM
Thanks man, I wish I had a good way to record my stuff. What I'd really like is an acoustic electric tenor. I recently found an 8 string A/E tenor on musician's friend, but I've no experience with buying instruments online. I do want one though.

Here's (http://youtube.com/watch?v=7L-u4CrFiTM) a guy playing a crappy one, but he manages to get some good sound out of it.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on July 02, 2008, 01:54:18 PM
Reminds me a little of a charango. My favorite non-famous musician is a charango player named Conrado Garcia, I can't quickly dig up any of his solo stuff, he's sorta-famous as a composer, plays in the renfaire band Cantiga. Mind blowing technique, effortless.

Here's an example of charango: http://youtube.com/watch?v=MMPZqXxYF0g


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on July 02, 2008, 02:49:04 PM
Got thinking about gear. Kinda want an o/d pedal to pair with my little fender cab, not metal distortion, just a little dirty tone to moisten things up a bit. Researching wah pedals, too. Found this guy: http://www.fulltone.com/stpframe.html who seems to have a decent offering of both. The  FullDrive-2 MOFSET and the Clyde Deluxe Wah. Yum.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: climbjtree on July 04, 2008, 04:36:34 PM
So here's the hollow-body Ibanez I just bought. It sounds amazing. Sorry for the poor quality image. It's a phone picture.

(http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll171/climbjtree/ibanez.jpg)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Engels on July 04, 2008, 04:38:38 PM
That looks awsome.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: climbjtree on July 04, 2008, 04:42:50 PM
The cool part is that it sounds better than it looks. I need a better amp; an old Marshall or something would be great.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on July 04, 2008, 05:42:17 PM
Grats! Good choice.




Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Abagadro on July 05, 2008, 01:37:38 AM
Even though I always found hollow bodies a bit too bulky, that is a gorgeous guitar. 


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on July 05, 2008, 09:03:18 AM
Well, they're pretty light...so kind of offsets the bulkiness in some respect. Err..maybe.

My only problem with them is that they're seriously noisy and prone to feedback. Used to have a pretty nice one, but I couldn't take it anymore (it's tolerable though if the environment's right).

[edit] No marshall! Go for a Fender Twin (or a deluxe reverb)...get a tubescreamer...then sound like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBm79O-IwXg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBm79O-IwXg)

Take off tubescreamer, sound like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGg3_T_FcOQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGg3_T_FcOQ)  :-)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on July 07, 2008, 08:26:24 AM
More like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YA3lTf-lh6E  :grin:

But I am very tempted to get the overdrive pedal I linked earlier to get some drive into things without blowing my amp up. At least now I don't have to worry about getting evicted, just blowing out my eardrums.




Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on July 08, 2008, 08:38:27 PM
Dude, young Brian Setzer pwns Old Brian Setzer, I'm sorry.  :-P


Yes, he's an even better musician now -- but the young version, well...that's possibly one of the only guys I'd have sex with (ahem...True Romance reference).

The dude is just the embodiment of cool though, either way.

Black Rebel M C is a cool band though... A little one tricked, but don't even deny that guitar sound. It's killer.

[edit] Hilarious comment on youtube:

"coreect me if im wrong, but is he playing a Gretsch White Falcon?

such a good guitar to have while your drummer uses garbage cans :D?"


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: NiX on July 09, 2008, 11:53:19 PM
Bah, I've been off and on trying to learn guitar from a book. This is not working out for me. I'm more of a visual learner and this book is atrocious for teaching considering the guy tends to drift off in the middle of important stuff. Suggestions for maybe videos or some other method of learning?


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on July 10, 2008, 12:39:20 AM
I learned by getting the sheet music for one of my favorite albums, and some more that was of songs I knew well, and just pounding on it till I could play the chords.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on July 10, 2008, 01:18:40 AM
I never learned well from books (at first) either, Nix. Don't feel bad.

Best way to go about it (imo) is to talk to people who play themselves, and trade some licks (or rather, steal some). A little here and there.

Or start out simple. Screw 6 string chords for now. Screw blues riffs. Screw single note walks. Seriously, fuck that shit. It's lame and self indulgent on the teacher/book's part. Fuck it up it's pretentious ass.  :x

Ahem. Anyways... That stuff will happen in time. Just learn how to form a power chord for now. Then play the most boneheaded punk songs -- they're the easiest, and melodic enough where you can feel cool that you're making music. This is what matters.

Don't go through what I did -- the guy who taught me was some sadistic hippy who 1) made me learn to tune my own guitar by ear (a shitty $10 non-tunable hand-me-down at that) and 2) made me learn Pipeline (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aqKsvSVkr0&feature=related) and 3) made me learn righthanded when I was left!

On the flipside, I taught a friend who was a late bloomer how to play Die Die My Darling (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQlF-JVKRK4), and he became very fun and competent enough to play with in 6 months time.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on July 10, 2008, 08:13:04 AM
Grow a bunch of pot plants with a couple friends. Make your friends buy instruments. Form a band. Try to learn how to play in between getting laid and high.

Well, that worked for me.

If you're visual, try looking on amazon for DVDs from an artist you like and would like to sound like. Shoot for someone simple at first, don't go straight for a virtuoso or you'll just get frustrated. Also hit up youtube, there's lots of cool instructional stuff there.

I disagree with Stray on 6-string chords, blues, and single note lines. Remember, this is a guy who likes young Brian Setzer better than old Brian Setzer because he's gay for him. Learning your open position chords and the basic barre chords is TOUGH, but essential to becoming a good guitarist. Learning to play guitar is TOUGH. There are years of work before you'll be any good. If you stick with it, you'll eventually regret any shortcuts you take. The 5 major open chords CAGED set up everything else you'll ever learn on guitar.

What's the important stuff you're wanting to work on right now? That could help us guide you.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: NiX on July 10, 2008, 08:44:41 AM
Right now I'm just trying to get simple stuff down. Power chords and basic transitioning between notes. My goal for the next month or so is to be able to play simple shit like some of those Green Day songs with all them fancy power chords :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on July 10, 2008, 08:52:21 AM
Get a Green Day songbook :) Can you read tab? It's easy and will help out alot.

http://www.amazon.com/Green-Day-Dookie-Authentic-Guitar-Tab/dp/0897244826

Play along versions are cool. They include two tracks for each song, one with guitar and one without, so you can play along with the bass and drums. Not original recording, it's done over guitar hero-style, but they're usually pretty good.

http://www.amazon.com/Green-Along-Guitar-Ultimate-Play-Along/dp/0739044273


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: NiX on July 10, 2008, 09:02:00 AM
I'll have to go stop in to a Chapter or something and see if I can find a copy of that. Or some other band who has a fascination with power chords.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on July 10, 2008, 09:48:32 AM
Sky! Of course, all of the main chords are important -- I just think it's something that should come later. Gotta walk, don't run (another great early song I learned btw  :-P).

Both of us have been playing for almost 20 years or more, and sometimes it's hard to forget how easy those things come to us now. Learning a G or a C or a barre (not to mention transitioning between them) is just a fat old bitch when you start out --- and it makes the student emphasize finger/physical dexterity more than, well.... Music. They get frustrated. I'd rather help people get to the roots of it.

I disagree about learning the guitar being tough. Playing is easy -- so many dickwads can do it, as we all know. Mastering is the hard part.

As for young Brian Setzer --- Stray Cat Strut is basically the direction he's gone to ever since, even if simplified. Not an easy song to play either (besides the base line). His solos are already in the jazzy spot at that stage. I wouldn't use that as an example for my liking for visceral songs...


Anyways.. Sorry, that was a mouthful. I just love the subject, of course.  :-)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on July 10, 2008, 09:55:33 AM
Learning guitar is tough. You can have fun and learn power chord songs, but you should also learn to play properly. I did both, I took some classical guitar classes and learned fingerpicking and proper chords and all these years later I am so glad I got that early foundation, because it makes a lot of things easier now. Of course, I blew off a lot of the lessons on fingerpicking and though I'm very good at playing without a pick, I totally suck at learning structured fingerpicking because I took so many shortcuts over the years.

If you just want to be a hack and do power chords, don't ask me for advice.  :drill:


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on July 10, 2008, 10:36:54 AM
Heh, well I'm not exactly in the same school, but as I said, I learned through surf songs. Not classical, but hard enough.

I don't think it means you're a hack though if you start out powerchording. Look at the Clash -- started out as a straight up punk band, and then became one of the most creative bands of their time on all sonic fronts (not just guitars). And there are many others like that...

Not to mention that being able to just concentrate on a simple chord emphasize the by far most important thing -- rhythm. I know people who can do some complicated fingerings, but still have sketchiness on rhythm -- and they simply can't just "rock out".

And look at Malcolm Young, for example. We all know Angus is the shit and all that -- but it was Malcolm that wrote most of the riffs and was the core of that band. And the dude barely knows anything except like 2 chords (I'm kidding, of course...but y'know what I'm saying...the guy is basic). I'd rather listen to him than the billion wankers out there running complicated scales, but simply can't make anyone dance.

[edit] This is an age old argument, I guess. In "classical" music terms, it was the war between the virtuosic and the romantic take on music. Big derail though, blah blah blah.

You and I probably shouldn't be in much disagreement though. There's a middle ground, and we're probably both there. We like a lot of the same shit at least.  :-)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: NiX on July 10, 2008, 12:15:23 PM
You two are like guitar lovers.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on July 10, 2008, 12:39:35 PM
What we both agree on is the only wrong way to play guitar is to not play guitar. Git practicin', Nixel!  :geezer:


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Oz on July 10, 2008, 12:42:33 PM
I have a small collection of really, really shitty guitars.  With 2 exceptions.  A nice wood bodied resonator and a brand new Ibanez ART100 i just got for father's day.  I'm glad to say i've been playing every single day since i got the new guitar (even if only for like 30min while i play a couple songs and screw around with scales).  I just have to make sure i pick it up every day...otherwise next thing i know its been a month or two and i havn't done shit.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on July 10, 2008, 02:37:17 PM
I like having a few different guitars, it changes up the way I play and each style bolsters the others. Lately I've been playing the cheap Alvarez acoustic at the new house, so when I get a chance to plug in the SG, I can bend the shit out of stuff, with my fingerpicking maybe being a little too aggressive. But my leads end up better because I've been playing so much old delta-style blues and classical that I'm thinking more about chord shapes than linear lines. Then I go back to the acoustic and start all over again, trying to incorporate linear lines into chord movements.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Oz on July 10, 2008, 03:15:00 PM
i agree with having lots of guitars (tried unsuccessfully to explain why to my wife and mother recently).
So far i've got

Hohner Acoustic (shitty)
Epi SG (super shitty, keep it in drop D b/c the G tuner is blown)
squire bass (just got for $20...shitty)

Rogue biscuit cone resonator (beautiful, awesome in open G for playing a little Son House, hurts my ears if i use a pick so i stick to fingers/slide)
Ibanez ART100 (nice little LP knockoff)

I'd love a semi-hollow body to round out my collection (maybe a gretsh)  but that will have to wait till i can stock up on gift certificates from Bday/xmas/etc.  This was my first father's day this year and it was kinda cool.  Like a bonus Bday etc.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: climbjtree on July 10, 2008, 03:37:57 PM
I say that all of you need to add ukuleles to your collections.



Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on July 10, 2008, 06:25:23 PM
I've probably had about 30-40 guitars. A few basses, and some other shit. I just never seem to hold on to anything. I have some weird "world" instruments that I have no clue how to play. I've had my Jazzmaster for awhile now too, I guess. It's my own custom wired frankenstein Jap/US model (soon to be even more gutted). No one else is gonna have it.

(http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/2443/jazzmasterandvibroking1dp0.jpg)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Selby on July 10, 2008, 09:00:32 PM
I guess I am the odd one out who doesn't see a need for many guitars.  I've survived on one and only recently acquired another.  But then I am cheap cheap cheap when it comes to my instruments ($60 for the win!).

But yes, the only true wrong way to practice is not practice at all.  My guitar instructor said that the fundamentals are very important, but unless you plan on taking it to that high level or playing certain types of music professionally, it probably won't hurt to be sloppy if you can tolerate having to unlearn bad habits later on.  He had been playing for 8 years when his instructor in college told him his technique was poor and he had to essentially re-learn how to play if he wanted to get better, but he said the changes in his style and how much better of an artist on the guitar he was because of it was almost unreal and made the pain worth it.  Honestly, I think I learned more about how technique and fundamentals of music work from an artist point of view than I ever learned how to actually play songs when I took lessons from him, which now I appreciate even more than I did then.

My hardest part originally learning was finding songs I wanted to play.  They were either extremely difficult (which is frustrating) or extremely simple (which is boring).  It was hard to find a good balance.  Now I am almost on a song-a-day regimen where I figure I'll pick up a song and learn to play it for an hour or so and usually find myself not sucking too bad.  When I don't feel like learning a new one, I run through all of the old ones I've recently picked up.  Most of the stuff isn't that hard, the most difficult recently has been Zoot Alures or Fear Of The Dark, but last night was Don't Fear The Reaper and it was actually loads of fun.  It's nice to not suck too badly anymore.  Once I got over that hump, guitar life has been good.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on July 10, 2008, 10:08:51 PM
I'm lazy... Don't have the fire of my youth anymore.  :oh_i_see: I remember the old days, rewinding and playing and rewinding tapes, trying to learn shit. It rarely happens now. When I do learn songs, I can always get the basic structure, but when it comes to the more wankier parts, I just approximate and improvise. And if I can't do that, then fuck it. I have my own [lame] songs to play.  :awesome_for_real:

Just being realistic, I guess! Besides my laziness in replicating wanky solos, there are also those simple riffs that the great guitar gods have done, but I can't seem to make come out right --- For example: Over the Mountain (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8rPky04fbs). I mean, I know the notes. Easy song. But that sound Randy makes after "Take me across the sky!!!"

That shit ain't gonna come out of my fingers, sorry.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on July 11, 2008, 07:50:25 AM
 :heart: RR, one of the first guys I remember as a kid going "Holy shit that's a guitarist!" I used to wail that song on the tennis racket in front of the mirror :) My Moby Dick is SRV's version of Little Wing. I've been chasing that for a few years on and off (so maybe not totally monomaniacal). Lately I've just taken the chord structure and jammed over it. My fiancee thinks it's great but I want to play the full SRV version before I move onto playing my own. Same with my favorite song to play, the one I knew I was finally over the hump and getting better: Since I've Been Loving You (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89yw7wqoaio) by Zep. I learned it note for note before I started jamming it. The linked version is from the DVD and I actually play it closer to that version because it shows how loose Pagey actually played it live. I fuckin' love that song.

Now I'm working on singing it while playing, as part of my whole learning to sing while playing thing. It's almost like starting over again, at first it just seems like it will never happen. But it gets a bit easier as long as the guitar parts aren't too complex. And once you get started, it kinda changes the way you approach a song, because I'm more likely to be singing along as I learn the chord changes and filling in the fiddly bits after.

Looking at some different versions, this one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_wMslbxwOA&NR=1) shows the importance of the rhythm section. Bonham made that song every bit as much as Page and Plant, and the bass and keyboard on that version can't touch Jonesy alone on keyboards. Also stumbled across this great vocal (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQK5iupEp6I) by Corrine Bailey Rae


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Oz on July 11, 2008, 08:24:38 AM
Quote
I say that all of you need to add ukuleles to your collections.

Actually i was just listing my guitars.

I also have 1 ukulele (from Hawaii, gift from a friend)
1 Banjo (gift for wife, she never plays it so i started trying to learn it)
and 20+ harmonicas...

I guess i'm an instrument junkie (that's not even counting my wife's amazingly nice viola).
Maybe i'm making up for being a late starter.  Never had lessons.  my parents asked me if i wanted to learn something as a kid, so being the little shit i was i said "hell no."  I've regretted that for a long time now.  But its ok, Once my daughter gets older the question will not be IF she wants to learn but rather "What instrument do you want to learn."
For being 11.9 months (her birthday is next weekend) old she's got decent rhythm and a good love of music.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on July 11, 2008, 09:07:36 AM
SRV's Little Wing. Definitely another one, Sky.

I hate to admit it, I had a "SRV" hate phase, maybe just because his name is dropped so, so much, but Little Wing seriously outfuckingdoes Hendrix. That's all there is to it.

Nowadays, I think that Stevie Ray is a god. I listen to that live version of "Texas Flood (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWLw7nozO_U) and just go "Whoa! There's a dude that accomplished something on earth. Fuck."


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on July 11, 2008, 10:35:49 AM
It's hard to put aside the ignorance SRV has caused among younger blues fans. You go see a guy like BB or Buddy Guy and they start telling stories about the old blues guys, and everyone starts yelling "STEVIE!". Buddy Guy got wicked pissed at one show, saying SRV was great, but you gotta learn about what went before, same as SRV. Most of SRV's great stuff is built on what came before. I got into blues hardcore mostly listening to SRV one summer, but I had been listening to Muddy for years before that, so I kinda got into the SRV hate phase for a long time. Now I can enjoy it all. I just try to turn the kids onto Albert (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5dpp2iCRwM), Buddy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_rd8y8A2oE), Otis (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uy2tEP3I3DM), T-Bone (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1xvx0UHa0A), Freddie (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aimj-mTeFKA), Sam (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoXI1zZbGIc), Matt (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxmyFGrR9V4[/url) (with Memphis Slim and Willie Dixon), Hound Dog (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8atogELhv_Q), Earl (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RBcCIMvg8U), Johnny (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9aFHQG7w5E), Rory (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33Jaodra7AY), Peter (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zukpuHTL6vA) (and Danny, I'm on a huge Mac bender lately, love their live stuff), Lightnin' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQQ4YTL1P1A), Luther (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=disChgvT5tg), Son (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uN0RNZE2q68), uhh etc :)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: climbjtree on July 11, 2008, 10:44:09 AM
I'd say SRV's Little Wing is amazing, but half of what makes Hendrix's so good is his vocals, in my opinion.

Also, are y'all familiar with the hang drum? I am completely hooked on this thing. Looks like I'll be taking a trip to Switzerland, I guess. Super hard to get one of these things.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Oz on July 11, 2008, 11:36:38 AM
favorite blues vocalist:  Robert Johnson
favorite slide: Son House
Favorite harp: Big Walter "Shakey" Horton (not to be confused with that Little Walter hack...imho)

as you can see i dig the rural blues more than the city incarnation (i like the stuff after too, but the old shit just feels...i dunno...right)

edit: on a sad note i was totally stoked about moving to Memphis "Home of the Blues" but i'm finding very little blues here.  Its almost all rap that is shitty and tourist blues on beale.

edit2: some spelling.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on July 11, 2008, 12:15:13 PM
I love the older stuff, too. Though my favorite vocalist is hard to pin down, I love Muddy but Howlin' Wolf is more like what I wish I sounded like. Blind Willie Johnson is great for vocals and slide. And of course Elmore is amazing on slide. Big Bill is maybe my overall favorite from the acoustic-only set.

I certainly wouldn't call Little Walter a hack. I like him, but I probably prefer Junior Wells, but Jr's vocals and Buddy Guy help with that one.

I don't really have favorites anymore.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on July 11, 2008, 02:36:45 PM
It's hard to put aside the ignorance SRV has caused among younger blues fans. You go see a guy like BB or Buddy Guy and they start telling stories about the old blues guys, and everyone starts yelling "STEVIE!". Buddy Guy got wicked pissed at one show, saying SRV was great, but you gotta learn about what went before, same as SRV. Most of SRV's great stuff is built on what came before. I got into blues hardcore mostly listening to SRV one summer, but I had been listening to Muddy for years before that, so I kinda got into the SRV hate phase for a long time. Now I can enjoy it all. I just try to turn the kids onto Albert (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5dpp2iCRwM), Buddy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_rd8y8A2oE), Otis (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uy2tEP3I3DM), T-Bone (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1xvx0UHa0A), Freddie (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aimj-mTeFKA), Sam (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoXI1zZbGIc), Matt (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxmyFGrR9V4[/url) (with Memphis Slim and Willie Dixon), Hound Dog (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8atogELhv_Q), Earl (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RBcCIMvg8U), Johnny (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9aFHQG7w5E), Rory (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33Jaodra7AY), Peter (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zukpuHTL6vA) (and Danny, I'm on a huge Mac bender lately, love their live stuff), Lightnin' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQQ4YTL1P1A), Luther (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=disChgvT5tg), Son (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uN0RNZE2q68), uhh etc :)


Gotcha! But dude, I'm not that young! Probably only a few years younger than you (31). I got respect my brutha!

Otis is the best fucking guitar player/singer combo ever. That man is in my top 5, and my top 1 blues player.

Albert IS Stevie without the manic-ness. And I'm from Texas, so I dig the Texas blues shit, it's all over here man. Favorite current Texas dude is Doyle Bramhall II (well, he's not current...been around since Stevie, and made that excellent Arc Angels album about/after Stevie passed away). What I meant though is, I loved Stevie, and then just kind of wanted to stop hearing about him...He's just talked about all the time. Then I came back around again. He deserves to be talked about. The guy was so passionate, playing wise, singing wise. Amazing through and through.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on July 11, 2008, 02:54:07 PM
I just agreed with you, dipshit  :grin:

Doyle's fucking awesome, I got turned onto his stuff by a coworker but the first thing I have with him on it is the CD/DVD set of Clapton's Sessions for Robert J, which is a cool set (and the Robert Johnson tribute album is pretty good, too, for a bunch of white dudes). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADfRtUJ01oI

And then there was the last Clapton tour I REALLY wanted to see, with Clapton, Bramhall and Trucks. Holy shnikes. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yaJVT1yV9s


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on July 11, 2008, 08:55:06 PM
Haven't seen any of that (I think?). Will try to check it out, thanks.

Yeah, Doyle's great. Moving away from Blues and a little into the Soul/R&B kind of thing lately, but it's still groovy, positive stuff.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Oz on July 14, 2008, 07:18:14 AM
Quote
Howlin' Wolf is more like what I wish I sounded like.

I think every male wishes they had that deep, gravely voice.  Its genetics or some shit.

Quote
I certainly wouldn't call Little Walter a hack


I know, i'm just a little bitter about him because everytime i bring up Big Walter people think i'm talking about Little Walter.  The difference is astronomical.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on July 14, 2008, 09:50:44 AM
I wish I had a gravely voice, but more in the Jeff Tweedy sense. Any Wilco fans here?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGlsfM3Tf70 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGlsfM3Tf70)


Not their most rockin' song (but they do have a MONSTROUS guitar player in Nels Cline (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmddP2cJkJ8&feature=related)), but that song is great stuff imo.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on July 18, 2008, 06:17:19 AM
Revisting Little Wing...

While I admire if you try to learn a Jimi or SRV version, don't you think it's just a damn fun song to run with on your own? Y'know getting the basic Jimi hammer-ons and shit, knowing the chords, and just doing your own version? Just curious...


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Selby on July 18, 2008, 06:29:48 AM
...don't you think it's just a damn fun song to run with on your own?
I used to do this for hours in my room in high school.  Figure out a song's basic structure and just run with it for 15-20m.  None of my friends ever understood why you wouldn't want to make it sound just like the record.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on July 18, 2008, 06:42:49 AM
Fuck em!  :awesome_for_real: I think if Jimi himself played Little Wing in front of people, it would definitely not sound like the album version either.

Seriously though, I had the same problem back in highschool days. This is even when I WOULD play a song perfectly, but say, did it on an acoustic or used a different tone than the original. People come around as you get older though. The only ones who I'd say are completely forgiving are the girls. As long as you can strike a note, you're probably OK!

This goes without saying that this is exactly what SRV did with the song anyways.  :-)

[edit] See, I'm just mentioning this because I'm trying to get a decent sounding version on acoustic. I can't really hit that nice lead bend at the end on this guitar, so I'm trying to substitute the lead with a kind of bass-y, jazzy thing.

[edit] Ah, so here's a guy doing it the way I'm shooting for. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9KIHzvMCE8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9KIHzvMCE8)

I was checkin' other versions, and while good, they blow off into shredder wankery. The guy above is keeping it tasteful and simple (I'm trying to sing my version too, Eb much easier to do it with).


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on July 18, 2008, 07:43:51 AM
I am incapable of playing a song straight. Just can't do it. Was playing through some stuff from the Guitar Hero songbook I linked in the GH3 thread, and I was laughing at myself how much I meandered through songs. The reason I want to learn the Hendrix version as recorded is part tribute, part base. I listened to a LOT of Hendrix as a kid, even when I was full-on metal, and it's my fiancee's favorite song, so that's the tribute. Then I take the original as a base, so I can work off that and just put in the touchstone phrases that everyone wants to hear and that identify the song.

The SRV version is simply the best song ever recorded on guitar, so same kinda deal. I want to learn it to play straight for myself and also to have the phrase bag for when I'm jamming it.

Basically, what I said about Since I've Been Loving You. It was a bit easier with that because there are a few live versions of Jimmy playing it. I'm all over on that song, it's my favorite pattern (12/8) and my favorite style (minor blues), so I can really explore different ways of playing it. But you need the touchstone phrases to bring it back to the recognizable, and also as lead-ins if you're playing with a band, so they know you're moving into another part of the song.

The worst version I've heard to date is the G3 version from Vai, Satriani and Malmsteen. Vai's cheesy lounge vocals and the inappropriate soloing. Satch did a decent solo in the song, but did join the wankfest at the end. I fucking hate wankers and struggle to not do that when I play, since I was birthed (musically speaking) in the age of the shred.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on July 18, 2008, 08:01:41 AM
Right on. Everything you said I agree with. Get the key phrases and just explore a little.

I couldn't really wank even if I wanted to though. Although I find myself *able* to wank sometimes, depending on the guitar. I have this Ibanez sitting around right now that I can shred on much easier than I can on a Strat or my JM. The fretboard is so damn flat, and the strings feel like air (as opposed to the cables on my Fender). I digress though.

I'm sure that SRV can wank with the best of them (and Jimi, of course), but he just had that instinct to not go over the top, and injected everything with soul (if that makes sense). OR more importantly, he kept it what it was -- essentially a blues-y song. I am impressed on a technical level by wankers, but they never give me goosepumps. It's no better than elevator music to me. That kid above does a better acoustic version than this guy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31QQ1gNpAaY) in my opinion (i.e. the Welcome to Squareville version).

[edit] OK, I just watched that G3 version. Still not as bad as that Monte Montgomery version above (seriously, that shit would be the version of Little Wing I'd hear in Hell).

At least the G3 version started out OK. Even Steve's vocals were cool...BUT then, yeah, he started getting all Perry Como and shit. Malmsteen fucked it all up. Malmsteen fucks everything up, for that matter. Steve did a cool solo, even if it was wankery. Joe did the right thing though and brought it down to earth. All in all though, it still lacked balls.

There's only two shredders that I really like, I think. That's Randy and EVH (well Zakk, Dime, and that Billy Idol dude too). I don't know what it is about them, but they manage to wank and have soul at the same time (well EVH used to at least). There's still a tinge of blues to what they do.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Nebu on July 18, 2008, 10:25:30 AM
I fucking hate wankers and struggle to not do that when I play, since I was birthed (musically speaking) in the age of the shred.

I appreciate the technical mastery of wankers, but they are unlistenable to me.  Gilmour in Comfortably Numb or most any Clapton solo evokes far more raw emotion while drawing the listener in.  I always brought this to my professional playing.  When I practice, I'll play crazy Chris Squire of Geddy Lee bass lines, but in front of people I prefer to sit in back and support a solid groove.  I think it's all part of being secure enough to adopt a less-is-more philosophy with music. 


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on July 18, 2008, 10:33:49 AM
Eh, I was all over as a bass player. Whatever worked with the song. I was watching a thing on MHD the other night about the Who, and it's funny how similar Entwistle is when it comes to bass lines, at least conceptually. We were also a four-piece, so it was just me and the guitar, and that's a LOT of space to fill, especially during solo time. I rarely saw the bass as a bass, more as just another instrument. People say I play bass like guitar and guitar like bass, but whatever. I don't bother with those kind of preconceived notions of what's proper, as long as it works in the context of whatever you're playing.

And we saw the Colbert Report with Rush and I was reminded of my bass tone, before I took over bass duties our old bass player was a huge Rush fan and had that tone totally dialed in. So when I started playing bass, I just stole his tone :) I love playing guitar, but there's just something you can't replace about a good, LOUD, thunderous tone coming out of your fingers.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on July 18, 2008, 10:47:15 AM
Btw, new Buddy Guy album out soon: http://www.buddyguy.net/site.html for some tracks. If he is in your area, I /highly/ recommend getting out to see him. He's in his 70s and still puts on a damned good show.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on July 18, 2008, 12:31:12 PM
Heh yeah, I get the same comment Sky. Almost had to kick my friend's ass once, when he told me  "Dude, you need to quit guitar. You're so much better on bass." Haha.

But it's all purposeful, y'see (yeah, so I say  :awesome_for_real:).

Really though, I don't necessarily get crazy on bass -- I couldn't anyways. I both hold Nebu's philosophy about the groove, but sometimes go out of my way to not keep it completely straight. I still do fill-ins and jump to seemingly odd areas. A melodic bass player.. or whatever you want to call it.

I like to play rhythm guitar though, and flourish someone else's rhythm with a seemingly different riff that makes it all sound bigger. That's what's fun to me. Not bass playing. It could be the simplest shit that turns a basic rock song into something better. This is why I harp on about Television so much. If you take the time to learn the second guitar in See No Evil (below), you see how brilliant it is... It could have been just another punk song, but it isn't.

Example: Television - See No Evil (http://homepage.mac.com/kthompsen/music/seenoevil.mp3)

Anyhow, not enough people explore the secondary/possible rhythms in a song, so when I jam, I aspire to that. I don't give a shit if it's technically impressive or not. I just want a song to sound better.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Nebu on July 18, 2008, 12:50:08 PM
We were also a four-piece, so it was just me and the guitar, and that's a LOT of space to fill, especially during solo time.

I played in a 3 piece, so I understand.  You also make a great point about Entwistle.  What I loved about Entwistle was that he recognized that the sound of the bass was every bit as important as the notes.  Don't get fooled again is a great example.  After years playing bass, taurus pedals, and singing, I always felt that playing in a 4 or 5 piece allowed a lot more creativity.  This may be why I was such a huge Nirvana fan.  They did a lot with the 3 piece especially considering how hamstrumg they were at bass.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on July 18, 2008, 01:29:09 PM
Don't forget the Police!  :awesome_for_real: At least on the earlier albums.

Speaking of Nirvana, sometimes I think the young Sting was even more depressed and dark than Cobain was (especially in this song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bXMi3PSyW8)). All while doing reggae. Hah!


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on July 18, 2008, 02:08:58 PM
NSFW - http://kingdomofstyle.typepad.co.uk/photos/uncategorized/mond1.jpg I want that as an inspirational poster :P

I always wanted some of those pedals, a friend had some and they seemed cool as hell.

Rhythm, lead whatever. Too categorical imo. It's one reason I love the old-time blues guys. I was reading a blues history book a few years ago and one of the 'young guys' (first gen electric players) was complaining about the old guys sitting in with them. "Them old guys, can't sit in with you. They play the bottom, the top, the middle, they don't leave no room for nobody else!"

I can't wait for this moving stuff to settle down, finish the last few major construction projects and get back to jamming. I was actually about to start playing out at the open mic nights when the whole house thing gelled, so it was bad timing as far as playing goes! Here's the two songs I have ready to go (that I can also sing with):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Humlh4YeEw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odhl-UqBymw
(heh - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VlRUIHwygc )

While I'm making friday afternoon links, I got a coupon for amazon as a credit card bonus reward thingy, which is nirvana for a broke guy. Here's the loot drops:

http://www.amazon.com/Live-Boston-Dig-Fleetwood-Mac/dp/B000086EOF - second part of the live show I've been listening to alot lately  :heart: Green + Kirwin
http://www.amazon.com/Acoustic-Masters-Brozmans-Bottleneck-Guitar/dp/1576237273 - been on my wishlist for years
http://www.amazon.com/Birth-Groove-Guitar-1945-1965-Inside/dp/0793551668 - I've got another book in the series that's about the blues, good reading and style summation
http://www.amazon.com/Play-Solo-Flamenco-Guitar-Martin/dp/0786664584 - another style I like to dabble in, so I want to start getting better...now I need a nylon string :)
http://www.amazon.com/Country-Guitar-Grossmanζs-Masters-American/dp/0739042815 - Checking out this series, looks pretty decent. Mishmash of prose, fake sheets and tab/notation.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on July 18, 2008, 02:26:00 PM
Kind of my point! I like different types of parts to be layered on to each other. If you're crunching chords, it's kind of pointless for the other guy to be crunching the same chords as you. Or vice versa. Throw some part of a lead in there, something that his fingers can't get to physically, and run around the rhythm. Then switch roles accordingly. I don't like the "system" of a strictly rhythm guitar player, with the lead guitarist following the chords until he breaks into a solo. There are more possibilities.

Supposedly, one of the first examples of this type interchanging of riffs was the Stones, when Brian was alive (in 19th Nervous Breakdown (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgpXwDduyhs)).

My other point is that I could be doing a very minor thing (cuz that's all it takes sometimes), but a dipshit audience/friend of mine thinks the playing is not impressive. It doesn't have to be. Only the song needs to be.

I'd take that poster. Only rock poster I have is of Elvis. I'm a fag.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Selby on July 18, 2008, 09:00:42 PM
Right on. Everything you said I agree with. Get the key phrases and just explore a little.
I remember learning Black Dog from Led Zeppelin at 16 and playing the shit out of it for 10-15 minutes at a time.  Extra chorus, extra verse, nifty things tossed in at the end to extend it considerably.  I wanked and sucked at it, but I had a good time figuring out what sounded good and what sounded lame (no matter how much you read or theorize, it doesn't mean anything unless you try it and verify).  I had an interesting version of War Pigs into Behind The Wall Of Sleep and NIB then back to War Pigs with an extended outro that was fun and went on for almost half an hour with various parts tossed in to make it interesting (too bad the shitty cassette recording was lost years ago - technology was JUST there on computer recording but I didn't have the machine to do it).

I don't like the "system" of a strictly rhythm guitar player, with the lead guitarist following the chords until he breaks into a solo. There are more possibilities.
Agreed wholeheartedly here.  Listen to Iron Maiden and Judas Priest, all the guitarists are playing different parts of the song at the same time.  Sometimes one guy does lead, sometimes another just jams on the chords, every now and again some nifty harmonies show up.  Then there are guitar solos that switch back and forth 3-4 times and all complement each other.  Beats 2 guitarists mashing the same power chords the whole time.  I can't remember specifically which artist I listened to where I came to the realization that "lead" and "rhythm" were just terms that didn't mean anything without some soul behind the song.  And that I didn't have to stick to one or the other.

One thing I am not much of a fan of is 5-6 layered guitar tracks on a song in a 3 or 4 piece band.  Either they end up faded so poorly into the mix you can't hear them or they jumble around and don't contribute much to the song besides a mess and expense.  Then there is the complication of actually trying to make the song sound something similar live.

Regarding tone, it is interesting to toy around with it.  I used to ignore it, then I got an amp that actually worked and could make changes.  Certain artists I can absolutely nail the guitar sound (Judas Priest, Jeff Hanneman of Slayer, certain Bad Religion songs) others I just can't make it sound remotely close (Alex Lifeson: looking at YOU, especially on The Pass).  It is interesting to hear the studio trickery in the guitar work on certain artists and then see how they play it live, then realize that YES, there really is studio trickery going on to make the guitar sound the way it does.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on July 19, 2008, 11:44:28 AM
Heh, I guess I could say that I can be wanker when it comes to tone. Not always necessarily in replicating a song (as I said, I don't get too crazy about that), but I do stop midway through songs a lot when jamming other stuff. Just when everyone's in a groove, all of the sudden I'm tweaking all of my knobs or grabbing a different guitar and getting pissed lol. Sometimes though, it's understandable. I live in a town of hard rockers and metalheads -- and I'm the guy who plays fenders and blues amps (not to say my gear can't get "hard", but more in a overdrive, garage-y kind of way). I have a digital amp that can bring out harder tones, but I only recently got a guitar with hot pickups again. You can not play metal or anything even resembling metal on a jazzmaster.

In a way though, I would that that I'M the one who sounds harder than the metalheads. My gear is just beautifully ugly. I usually shoot for something Jack White-ish/JSBX/Sage/Verlaine-ish. A lot of metal is technically harder, but it sounds a lot more sanitized imo.

Never run into tone problems on bass. So much easier to get what I want there.

It's easier to approximate other artists conveniently through digital amps now, but not exactly ideal either. You'll find though that cab emulation is the bigger problem. These amps do a pretty good job of getting some nuances of a plexi's pre/power stage, or a twin, or whatever, but then, if you're amp only has one or two speakers, it's going to sound off in some songs. This goes without mentioning how the original track was mic'ed, or double tracked, and shit like that. Heh


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Nebu on July 19, 2008, 08:16:16 PM
I was just going through some old cd's and came across this song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6x6uoNqH-_A).  If you forward to about 1:10 you'll see a great example of bass playing minimalizm that generates a tremendous groove.  God I love the bass line in this song. 

Never run into tone problems on bass. So much easier to get what I want there.

I wish I could say that.  I have a 70's era jazz that I play through an old ampeg and a 2x10 enclosure.  I love the crispness, but can't get the growl that I want without going back to a Rick bass.  The other thing that's killing me is this hollow body bass I have.  I used to play through a vox hollow and recently bought an ibanez bass that looks like a ES335.  It makes some interesting sounds, but I can't get a solid bottom end from it.  Maybe that's just the deal with the hollow body.  Maybe I need to use my 2x15 cab more... I need to replace the drivers in it. 


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on July 19, 2008, 11:25:31 PM
I bet that ampeg is the shit. The 10's are fine for that growling sound, though you might to add more 10's.  :awesome_for_real:

Besides that, just crank mids and bass, turn down treb. Not sure what the nature is of your jazz, maybe since it's vintage, the pickups have cooled down over time, but j's can definitely growl (not to say they can sound like a Ric though). Perhaps you're Ric just had hotter pickups at the time, and was more suitable to how that amp started breaking up. I'd suggest checking out a solid body with humbuckers, even a cheapo, and seeing how it sounds. You're hollow probably has hb's (as does everything Ibanez), but yeah, they're kind of thin otherwise.

[edit] My favorite bass groove.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPH3xNkHFhE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPH3xNkHFhE)

Obvious choice, I know. It's great stuff though. I go long periods without playing bass, and it's always the first thing I start playing when I pick one up.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on July 21, 2008, 09:33:09 AM
I'd really like to get an ampeg head to match my ampeg 8x10 cab (really 7x10 :| ). I've needed to upgrade my bass pickups for about ten years now. With my old gigging rig (which was stolen) of Kasino power amp into a peavey 2x15 loaded with 2 400W full range EV's, I played so loud that I got a pretty decent Geddy Lee thumping tone. A lot of it was in the fingers, though. Now with my shitty little Peavey Mk III and the whole not playing at extreme volume, the pickups are lame. Had a roommate for a while with an old Gibson grabber, the pickups on that thing fucking rocked. I tried to buy it from him since he didn't play bass, but he wouldn't sell (vintage early 60s, in case, mint condition with tags...he bought for $150). I kept pestering him, and one day he was all "Oh yeah, I sold that." Fucker. A rickey is definitely on the list to get some day.

Minimalism, eh. We had a few songs where I went for that, but I tend to have a hard time playing minimalist. My only problem with minimalism is when people criticize my non-minimalist playing (cough Nebu cough).  :awesome_for_real:

Check out something like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K91Qj870HHk The bass line is pretty simpy, but tight and active. And even with that in most modern blues setups, the bass and guitar would be covering piano parts, too. I tend toward the active bass players, just my own preference and natural style. When I picked up the bass the guys I learned from were Geez, Geddy, Harris, and Cliff. The first bass songs I learned were http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKQ5jhtFypg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjoxJsgbWbM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_ofFa50LzY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CplR6xl5-14


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on July 21, 2008, 10:39:51 AM
My speakers aren't working very well. Can't hear the bass in that Muddy song.  :|

I think I'm in agreement with both of ya though. I like minimalism, but yet, I like moving around in it a little, and not following root notes all the time. There's the minimalists, the badass maestros, and the melodic guys, I guess. I fall in the last category. Most of what I learned/admired about bass playing came from Paul McCartney actually.. He'd play some simple groove for the first few bars, and then start moving around, keeping the groove, but in completely different ways. Mike Watt (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjAAml_AtPM&feature=related) is another favorite. And of course, Flea. I mean, Flea can rip with the best of em, but he's mostly melodic when it comes to recorded songs.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Nebu on July 21, 2008, 11:09:03 AM
I've found that my movement in a piece depends on a couple of things:  How good the drummer is and how busy the guitar/keyboards are.  It's all about creating a cohesive piece of music.  I'm not a huge fan of Mozart and try to keep my meandering appropriate to the music.  John Paul Jones is a master at this which is why I think he's often very underrated as a bass player. 


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on July 21, 2008, 11:18:11 AM
You're right... It's all about the song in the end. Whatever works!  :-)

I'll admit, I'm probably guilty of "underrating" John Paul Jones. Hell, and Entwistle as well. Both of those guys had to keep their bands in check though. Who else was gonna do it? Bonham? Moon? Page? Townsend? Yeah, right.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on July 21, 2008, 11:49:12 AM
OK, on to a different subject (well, back to Jimi songs).

Don't know why I didn't notice this before, but is it kind of...well...impossible...to get Jimi right without playing with your thumb (that is, if you're really trying to get it right)?


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on July 21, 2008, 12:02:41 PM
SRV is like that, too, for obvious reasons. Luckily, I was really into Hendrix when I was playing the tennis racket, so when I got a guitar, I learned a few of his tunes, though not the lead parts. So even though I have pretty small hands, playing stuff like Wind Cries Mary during that formative time paid off for the old thumb.

I like Andy Aledort's Hendrix instructional DVD. Andy rocks. He's on tour with Dickey Betts.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on July 21, 2008, 12:08:28 PM
I noticed that John Frusciante is the same way.

Oh well! I learned that fingerpicking technique from White Wedding. Using my thumb is long overdue. Time to learn something new.  :-)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Selby on July 21, 2008, 06:58:00 PM
Don't know why I didn't notice this before, but is it kind of...well...impossible...to get Jimi right without playing with your thumb (that is, if you're really trying to get it right)?
Yes.  Very amusing to see that pop up from time to time, and since I don't usually play with my thumb that way, it alway sounds like crap until I've practiced it a few times (well, less like crap than it normally sounds like).


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on July 21, 2008, 08:18:51 PM
All of this time, I've just played some of his chords by barre-ing, and then used my pinky when he does those hammer-ons. I'm noticing though from Little Wing that it's really difficult doing it that way, when transitioning from some chords (like that sliding riff at the end of the intro run, right before he sings)....He's hitting bass notes at the oddest times. Figured it was the thumb.

It's not physically hard though. I have big hands. But it is a bigger pain in the ass on my acoustic (which is how I want to cover some Jimi songs).


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on August 07, 2008, 11:16:50 AM
Recently tossed up on the blog:

http://www.raphkoster.com/2008/07/27/the-sunday-song-dadgaething/

http://www.raphkoster.com/2008/07/06/the-sunday-song-midsummer/

Both mostly just messing around.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on August 19, 2008, 09:05:26 AM
Picks...

What do you prefer?


I'm finding my habits are changing in different ways (been kinda touching on that). Picks are another thing. Almost always used to use very thin picks (and just burned through a lot of them). Now I'm preferring super fucking hard ones. I'm not as fast and can't strum as easily, but the attack is so much more ballsy.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Nebu on August 19, 2008, 09:56:44 AM
It's interesting that you mention this.  I found that the better the guitarist I played with was, the thicker the pick they used.  I've always loved the attack of a thick pick, but found I could control a thin pick better.  I guess this says a lot about my guitar skill. 


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on August 19, 2008, 10:23:41 AM
It's interesting that you mention this.  I found that the better the guitarist I played with was, the thicker the pick they used.  I've always loved the attack of a thick pick, but found I could control a thin pick better.  I guess this says a lot about my guitar skill. 

That is interesting. I feel like I'm finally getting decent at least.  :why_so_serious:


Actually, I don't think I'll ever be that great. I'm too lazy! Or maybe I should say complacent. Not really in learning so much - I like learning. But I'm lazy in implementation. Especially recording. I think I've always been pretty good at getting a good riff out... But I hate making up a bunch of parts and composing things to make it all sound truly great. I don't have the discipline or patience for that. I need someone else to kick my ass probably. It's either that, or I join jam bands. Not much of a middle ground between the two for me.

======

On another note.. I was just wondering... Does anyone here rip off Jimi a little? I ran into a little riff earlier, and it sounds really Jimi like (but not exactly something he's done himself). It's weird though... I've been spending time trying to learn Little Wing, but this sounds more like late period funk Jimi.


Jimi Ripoff (http://homepage.mac.com/kthompsen/music/jimiripoff.mp3)

Bad quality, I know. It's just a garageband thing through my computer mic I did real quick. You get the idea though. And if anything, this PROVES that a Jazzmaster can sound like a Strat.  :wink:


[edit] On a sidenote, John Frusciante is the premier "funk period Jimi" knockoff.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Amarr HM on August 19, 2008, 08:09:20 PM
Lenny Kravitz has his Jimi moments too.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Selby on August 19, 2008, 09:03:23 PM
I hate thin picks and always have, even back when I was a novice first learning.  I prefer a good thick pick.  A quarter or nickel works well too.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on August 20, 2008, 11:08:07 AM
If I use a pick, I use mediums. Lately, I don't use a pick -- have actually gotten in the habit of keeping my right hand nails a little bit long. I tear them regularly, given that I mostly fingerpick on medium-gauge steel strings!

I only ever really used a thin pick for that particularly slappy-slappy strum sound, but when I do that I invariably break the tip off them, I guess because I hold them too tight.

Posted a video of myself playing that tune "November" which I posted here a while back.

http://www.raphkoster.com/2008/08/17/the-sunday-video-november/


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on August 20, 2008, 11:10:55 AM
Really beautiful Raph.  :-)

Who would you say is your main influence anyways?


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on August 20, 2008, 10:35:22 PM
For writing, it's Paul Simon and Billy Joel. I aim for that sort of melodic quality (I like stuff you can hum), and if it has lyrics, that literate quality when they are at their best. For playing... lots and lots of folk artists with alternate tunings and stuff, some obscure and some not. I don't actually listen to all THAT much instrumental acoustic guitar. So for me an instrumental piece is just a song that doesn't have lyrics.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Arnold on August 21, 2008, 05:49:44 AM

One thing I am not much of a fan of is 5-6 layered guitar tracks on a song in a 3 or 4 piece band.  Either they end up faded so poorly into the mix you can't hear them or they jumble around and don't contribute much to the song besides a mess and expense.  Then there is the complication of actually trying to make the song sound something similar live.

I always thought that was cool about Dimebag on, what album was that? (I think it was first on Vulgar Display of Power).  They decided to just play what they could reproduce live and would drop the rhythm guitar tracks during the solo.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Arnold on August 21, 2008, 05:52:21 AM
I hate thin picks and always have, even back when I was a novice first learning.  I prefer a good thick pick.  A quarter or nickel works well too.
I prefer the green Dunlop Tortex picks.  I've used thicker ones before though.  The Dunlop Jazz IIIs are pretty cool.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Arnold on August 21, 2008, 05:56:04 AM
It's interesting that you mention this.  I found that the better the guitarist I played with was, the thicker the pick they used.  I've always loved the attack of a thick pick, but found I could control a thin pick better.  I guess this says a lot about my guitar skill. 

I got ahead of myself with the last two posts because I am reading this backwards, but yeah, I agree.  Pick attack is a huge part of the guitar sound, and I don't understand why guys, like Eric Johnson, shy away from it. Zakk Wylde has kinda got out of control lately, and has not been in my taste with his "HARDCORE PENTATONIC!!!!!!!!!" style, but I always loved his pick attack and how much a part of his sound it was.  I just liked him when he was more melodic.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Arnold on August 21, 2008, 05:58:40 AM
Favorite current Texas dude is Doyle Bramhall II (well, he's not current...been around since Stevie, and made that excellent Arc Angels album about/after Stevie passed away). What I meant though is, I loved Stevie, and then just kind of wanted to stop hearing about him...He's just talked about all the time. Then I came back around again. He deserves to be talked about. The guy was so passionate, playing wise, singing wise. Amazing through and through.

I have that Smokestack album and it kicks ass.  Plus, Doyle's dad helped Stevie write some of his best tunes on "In Step"!


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Arnold on August 21, 2008, 06:02:00 AM
I fucking hate wankers and struggle to not do that when I play, since I was birthed (musically speaking) in the age of the shred.

I appreciate the technical mastery of wankers, but they are unlistenable to me.  Gilmour in Comfortably Numb or most any Clapton solo evokes far more raw emotion while drawing the listener in.  I always brought this to my professional playing.  When I practice, I'll play crazy Chris Squire of Geddy Lee bass lines, but in front of people I prefer to sit in back and support a solid groove.  I think it's all part of being secure enough to adopt a less-is-more philosophy with music. 

OMG, the first solo for "Comfortably Numb", and especially the first bar of the solo, is one of the most incredibly constructed solos, ever.  It sends shivers down my spine every time I hear it.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Arnold on August 21, 2008, 06:16:33 AM
Learning guitar is tough. You can have fun and learn power chord songs, but you should also learn to play properly. I did both, I took some classical guitar classes and learned fingerpicking and proper chords and all these years later I am so glad I got that early foundation, because it makes a lot of things easier now. Of course, I blew off a lot of the lessons on fingerpicking and though I'm very good at playing without a pick, I totally suck at learning structured fingerpicking because I took so many shortcuts over the years.

If you just want to be a hack and do power chords, don't ask me for advice.  :drill:

I look back and think that all the tabs in the music mgazines and this idea that I had to learn shit note for note (which I was too lazy too do in reality) really hampered me.  It was discouraging to look at that stuff and try to get it down.  But at the same time, I looked down on the song books that just showed you the basic chords, with no riffs.

It wasn't until I was able to sing and play at the same time that things started to come together.  I'm super out of practice right now, but at least I know how to do it if I want to get it together.

Yeah, it's long and boring to learn all those scales, chords, and arpeggios, but that's where it is at.  You can learn riffs until the cows come home, but learning riffs, "note for note", doesn't really teach you how to mix everything together.  Once you learn all that "other" stuff, your bass player can start playing something he came up with and you can derive riffs from the things he's playing and not have to resort to doubling what he's playing (and vice versa).



Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Arnold on August 21, 2008, 06:24:21 AM
Sorry for the necro.

My birthday was on Sunday, and my parents decided to buy me a guitar. I've been interested in learning for quite a long time, but never really had the balls to go and pick one up.

The problem is, I really have no idea how to choose one. What I should buy along with it? Does anyone know of a good program for learning? I would go for private lessons, but I'm broke.

I'm leaning towards a nylon-string, maybe a Yamaha C40? I've heard nothing but good things about it.

Please mention anything I'm forgetting about.

Thanks.

I didn't know anything about acoutsics when I got my first.  I needed one because my college dorm did not allow electrics.  I got a nylon string because my uncle suggested one, but I wasn't interested in classical music and was kicking myself for not getting a steel string.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Arnold on August 21, 2008, 06:29:20 AM
Thirdly, don't spend a lot of money until you know if you'll stick with it. A few years learning the basics on a cheapo and you will be ready to move up to a mid-range instrument and know what to look for in one.

YES!!!!

Beginners are so lucky these days with all the quality cheap guitars available.  I remember when the Korean stuff sucked, but it all seems really good now, and is CHEAP!  Yamaha seems to make really good beginner stuff.

I own a Baby Taylor that I bought for airline travel.  It sounds great and was cheap.  However, you do have to make tuning adjustments because of the very short scale.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on August 21, 2008, 10:10:54 AM
Wow, that's a lot of replies in a row.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Arnold on August 21, 2008, 10:14:54 PM
Wow, that's a lot of replies in a row.  :awesome_for_real:

My computer is in an office outside my house and I got locked out, without my keys.  My roommate had company over and I didn't want to bother him, so I stayed up super late and posted to some old threads.  I ended up sleeping on the floor, using my backpack as a pillow, until he got up and unlocked the house.

It was a weird night.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on August 25, 2008, 10:31:01 AM
Dunlop 1.5mm. Don't like anything else, I wear the fuck out of them. Most are rounded way down, I need some new ones. I started on mediums, always broke them and they just didn't have enough dig for heavy palm-muting I was doing back then. Got a 1.5mm and never looked back, perfect thickness. Also use my fingers a lot. Raph has some nice technique. Found a vid of the guy I keep mentioning from the ren faire, Conrado Garcia on charango: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvHyTs_EMOI I want that technique! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2xmbm2rTik

(http://www.keynshammusic.co.uk/prodimages/1.5d.jpg)

On the topic of playing accessories, my first slide was a bic lighter, held between my index and ring finger with the middle holding it down. Now I can only play slide with my middle finger. Currently using a chromed steel slide. I bought three originally, the steel one and two made of glass. One glass was too thin, the other is nice and thick but it's blown glass and not straight, so tough to chord.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on August 25, 2008, 10:53:40 AM
I play on my middle too. I prefer glass on acoustic, and steel on electric (but I hardly ever play slide on electric...if I had a specific guitar to set up the bridge for it, I would).


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on August 25, 2008, 08:34:48 PM
Thanks for the compliment, Sky. :) It's funny how posting a video got so much more of a response (not here, but everywhere) than just posting an audio track.

I play slide with a medium glass slide, on the index finger, in my lap, usually, and sometimes with the guitar held normally, on my middle finger.

And when I play slide, I am usually doing it on the '62 Gibson L000 acoustic, where it just *screams* -- totally awesome sound. That guitar has a very old-timey sort of sound to it, and it just really clicks with slide. Plus the action is a bit high anyway. Or I'll play it on the (also '62) Gibson Melody Maker, where I have to be very careful and light and am usually doing it fuzzed out.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on August 26, 2008, 07:48:22 AM
I don't know what the hell I was saying.. I actually use my slide on my pinky. Mostly open E or G. For whatever reason that I can't explain, I like playing in both tunings with a capo on the first fret. Especially open E/capo 1st. I just love that. My acoustic isn't set up for slide, but it still works well. Pretty interchangeable.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on August 26, 2008, 09:15:27 AM
I don't want to bang up the SG with the slide, I play on my old Cort that I set the action way high and keep in open G. I need to get back to playing more, this whole home buying/construction/moving thing has been hell on my free time. It is nice to finally have a place where I can open up the amp and play without bothering the landlord, or sit out in my backyard with birds accompanying my acoustic. My recorder sits in a box somewhere  :|


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Arnold on August 27, 2008, 12:47:52 AM
What do you guys use for recording software?  I've got a super old version of Cubasis that is really buggy and has had latency issues with some of the operating systems I've used.  I'm itching to set up my computer to do some basic recording - all my hardware and guitar stuff are right next to it, but I need a low cost solution because this is just for fun.

I've used Kristal and loved that, but it doesn't support MIDI and I've got a Boss DR-660 drum machine for my drums, so I need MIDI to make everything synch up.

Or perhaps I just need a good software solution for the drums.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on August 27, 2008, 02:09:00 AM
I still use Acid Pro, SoundForge, and now I have added some VSTs to the mix. Drums for me come from either an Alesis SR-16 or loops.

Acid has supported MIDI since version 5 I think. I have done a few things that were half-and-half.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on August 27, 2008, 10:33:52 AM
I have Cubase and Live on Windows, and only old versions of ProTools on Mac. I don't do much recording anymore, so I just fuck around with garage band....which is actually pretty good for simple home recording.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on August 27, 2008, 10:36:53 AM
I WANT A MACBOOK PRO.

What? Did I yell. I really do want one. Preferably with a Digi002+protools. Right now I'm using a Fostex MR8HD, it's a really cool unit for basic demo/ideas.

Anyway, I do need to look into recording software, too. Anyone use Audacity?

I've also lamented not having a drum machine to play to. I have a serious love/hate with drum machines, because I hate uninteresting drums and I'm very into syncopation and horrid at notation for time. Once I get unpacked at the new house, my drums are coming out of storage and I'll try to record them. It'll bring out the limitations of my recorder, but paired with software it might be perfect for my basic recording needs. I have to check if it's got a click track, I meander.

Raph, I hope you're using midi to control that Alesis or something. I'm a miditard and putting in step patterns on that unit was TEH DEBIL. We had one in the band room, and doing anything complex on it was impossible, even when blasted on cocaine. The Boss was much better, but still waaaay too limited. And those are pretty much your choices for drum machines. I need a computer package or something, but then things start getting too complex, because I don't want to have to boot the computer to record, I like solid state units I can lug around. I believe I've had this gripe before in this thread :)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on August 27, 2008, 10:39:05 AM
Uh, yeah, I use audacity, but just for touching up some things. I've never really found much use for sound editors actually. Or post-production in general! Just like to get my shit right through my gear and press record.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on August 27, 2008, 01:21:54 PM
It's nice you can play bass, guitar, drums and sing all at the same time and have enough tracks to record it all, too!  :awesome_for_real:

I can only record four live tracks at a time, meaning one 'song' on my Fostex would be the drum kit: snare, kick and two stereo room mics. Rather than bounce that down to two tracks, I'd prefer to copy it over to the pc after the performance and still have all those tracks open to mess around with if needed.

I'm very hands off, if you couldn't tell by the levels and mistakes in my recordings. I do just hit record, I don't even bother getting my shit right first.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on August 27, 2008, 01:35:03 PM
Nah, I can't play drums for fuck. I have two neighborhood drummers for that, if I ever need them. I also have a ton of loops and some samplers...just haven't messed with that. Got yet another beatmeister (hip hop oriented though) with all kinds of shit too. In fact, it's kind of a shame that I don't take advantage of them much..  :|

Anyhow, I'm pretty hands off like you too. I can make my way around synths and get something done really well if i put my mind to it, but I'd rather just be a simple guitar player....with someone else doing all the production work. Shit man, I still don't even have any good mics. So I can't even make a decent guitar recording either, when I'm alone at least.



Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on August 28, 2008, 01:39:54 AM

Anyway, I do need to look into recording software, too. Anyone use Audacity?

I know it is heresy but I can't stand it. Give me SoundForge or give me death. :P

Quote
Raph, I hope you're using midi to control that Alesis or something. I'm a miditard and putting in step patterns on that unit was TEH DEBIL.

I don't do it that way, I do the overlay loop way -- you set the click track going, hit the pads, and it loops and you build up the part. I do it with little quantization. Comes out much more musical, to my mind.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Phildo on August 28, 2008, 05:57:43 AM
Reaper (http://www.cockos.com/reaper/)

It's free and it's great.  Both Audacity and SoundForge are useful programs for sound design, but they don't stack up well for recording compared to other programs.

Stray: if you want to mic your amp then a cheap SM57 will be more than adequate.  You can get a good sound with that, assuming you don't want to drop several hundred on a good condensor.  Otherwise, just run the guitar directly into your computer and use some amp modeling plugin.  It will give you more control over the tone anyway.

Edit: I'm generally bored and in need of some practice, so if you guys need any mixing or drum sequencing done I'd be happy to take a stab at it.

Edit 2: Apparently Reaper might not be free anymore.  It was when I downloaded it a few months ago.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on August 28, 2008, 09:04:11 AM
I do the overlay loop way -- you set the click track going, hit the pads, and it loops and you build up the part. I do it with little quantization. Comes out much more musical, to my mind.
How do you program in specific parts, changes and non-repetitive beats? I was trying to program a song (prog metal I guess) for my band back in 91 and almost threw the thing out the window.

I mic my guitar with the sm58. Actually I mic everything with it, since it's my only mic :) I used to go direct from my GT6 effects unit into the board, but I've been happy with the mic/amp setup. Still want to get a decent overdrive for when I start playing out, so I'm not lugging the big GT6 board around, even if it's nice to have the versatility at my feet.

Maybe some day when my home is finished, hah. Even thinking about a set of mics for the drum kit is fantasy at this point. Guess that solves my drum tracking issue...mono drum track!


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Arnold on August 28, 2008, 11:12:36 PM
Reaper (http://www.cockos.com/reaper/)

It's free and it's great.  Both Audacity and SoundForge are useful programs for sound design, but they don't stack up well for recording compared to other programs.

Kristal Audio Engine + Audacity is a great, free setup.  However, I'd like MIDI support.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on August 29, 2008, 01:07:15 AM
I do the overlay loop way -- you set the click track going, hit the pads, and it loops and you build up the part. I do it with little quantization. Comes out much more musical, to my mind.
How do you program in specific parts, changes and non-repetitive beats? I was trying to program a song (prog metal I guess) for my band back in 91 and almost threw the thing out the window.

I lay down one loop, bring it digital, stripe it, then play fills and the like over it, or replacing bits of it. Same if I need a second drum part.

One of the last things I do to make the drums sound better is to go over the whole drum track with a volume envelope, often beat by beat. It breaks up the sound of looping.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on September 04, 2008, 04:23:01 PM
Bought meself a new beater guitar. I think it's a Hamer PRS copy... I don't know, I got it for cheap.

It's black like this Washburn:

(http://www.backstreetsymphony.co.uk/g3.jpg)

Except no floyd rose (more of a PRS trem on it).


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Nebu on September 04, 2008, 04:31:45 PM
I've been playing a mexican Fender Tele as my beater guitar.  I'm thinking the only good use for a mexican Fender is for practicing Who moves.  What a worthless chunk of wood. 


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on September 04, 2008, 04:32:23 PM
Ah here's a pic. It's not a bad guitar at all for under $300

(http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/2792/hamerfk2.jpg)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on September 04, 2008, 04:42:18 PM
If you put my hands on a Mexican Tele, I could surely make it sound good Nebu. They're not bad guitars (although there can be a few lemons, I'll give you that). [edit] I mean, setting it up wise!


The Hamer is a Hamer Studio, I believe. Still not sure! The left "wing" is higher than the right, which doesn't seem to be the case with Studio pics I've seen. It's more like a PRS (sexy).

Anyhow, it's a helluva lot better guitar than anything else for $300, for sure. The pickups are duncan designed, which, more or less, makes them duncans.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Oz on September 04, 2008, 04:49:32 PM
Quote
Anyhow, it's a helluva lot better guitar than anything else for $300, for sure

I like my Ibanez ART-100 i got for $300.  Don't know about comparison to the Hamer, but i dig it. 

On a side note what has been your (a collective you for anyone) experience with tremolo bar (Bigsby, Fender, Floyd Rose, Kahler etc).  I've heard they lose tuning like a motherfucker, which has always deterred me from getting a nice archtop or semi-hollow with one on it.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on September 04, 2008, 05:02:47 PM
I almost bought an Ibanez actually (not an Art, but an archtop). It was my second choice. They are a good deal for the money.

Floyd Roses are sturdy as all fuck. And the coolest sounding/most versatile ones to boot. They're just a bitch when they do break. And kind of daunting to newbs, even if you're just tuning or re-stringing. Bigsby's really don't work any better than Strat/Fender ones. But they're doable. You can't go crazy with them and really divebomb, but they're fairly low-maintenance.

Second after Floyd Rose is Fender's other, less talked about trem system -- the jag/jazzmaster one. They work well. It's the guitar that created the surf sound, after all. You can get pretty deep with them, and stay in tune, but it's nothing like a floyd rose either. Thing is, the problem with these guitars is their bridges in general (doesn't matter if you use the trem or not). The whole thing is basically broken by design. The saddles are the most assbackwards, retarded things ever conceived.

(http://www.jag-stang.com/JaguarHtml/Images/jagBridge_stock.jpg)

See the little rivets? They're very shallow, and your strings are prone to just pop out or skip when you bend or play hard. A lot of players back in the day used huge strings on these guitars to combat it (like .014's and up). Now there's replacement saddles (TUSQ's, specifically), but it's a little extra cash...and they're hard to find now.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on September 05, 2008, 07:35:33 AM
Man, this little Hamer is badass. I'm upgrading it from beater to keeper. Very well constructed for a cheapo. I needed a rocker like this.  8-)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Sky on September 05, 2008, 11:58:26 AM
Someday I might get a guitar with a bar on it. In the past, I've always removed them because I use them so rarely, but for some more rockabilly/ventures type stuff they are nice. I love the bar on my SG for my main guitar, though. A lot of folks use Bigby's with SGs.

(http://www.everythingsg.com/images/identify/photos/SG_61_Reissue_1.jpg)


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on September 05, 2008, 01:27:36 PM
One of my favorite guitarists (Greg Sage) uses an SG with a bigsby. He kind of does the warped Neil Young/Jeff Beck thing, but in his rhythms. Love that shit. link (http://homepage.mac.com/kthompsen/music/so_young.mp3)

There isn't anyone who sounds like him really.

Kevin Shields and Bilinda Butcher kind of do the same thing, but in a less frenetic way. link (http://homepage.mac.com/kthompsen/music/soon.mp3)

Lots of neat stuff with trem bars really! I like to have them rather than not. If I want to use them they're there.

[edit] fixed links!



Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Oz on September 05, 2008, 01:59:12 PM
Thanks for your input Stray.

Quote
your strings are prone to just pop out or skip when you bend or play hard

My resonator/dobro used to do that, but for a totally different reason.  The damned high E would jump out of the bridge so i cut it a little deeper and now i have no problems.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on September 05, 2008, 02:29:43 PM
Welcome.

Just found out that Hamer is an "ST3" model. Retailed new at $800. No wonder.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Oz on September 05, 2008, 03:59:26 PM
nice fucking deal!


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on September 12, 2008, 10:09:06 PM
Wandered into a guitar shop in Encinitas today, mostly old stuff on the walls -- an 1898 Gibson, among other things. Signs everywhere saying "don't play anything without us helping you." Spotted a Larrivee, asked how it sounded. I still regret not getting that one I saw in that other store two years ago. Shop guy said "one of my favorites in here, wanna try?" So he got it down and I jammed for a while... in the middle he says "You know Leo Kottke's coming to town? I mention it because you sound like that kind of player." I took that as a compliment. :)

I didn't buy it though -- it sounded too much like my current guitar.


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Phildo on September 13, 2008, 12:46:32 AM
The "Raph Sound"?


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Raph on September 13, 2008, 02:03:30 AM
Heh, no. I don't claim to have anything like that! But there's certain things I need a guitar to be able to do -- it's got to growl and it's got to be sensitive to harmonics, and I need to be able to get certain tones from it, and this one felt a little "dead" in some ways. Its full tone was, like I said, too similar to my Blueridge, and it wasn't as responsive to harmonics either. The growl was pretty good, but i couldn't get the more bell-like tones, and the string separation when chording was just OK.

I sound like such a geek there. :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: stray on September 13, 2008, 05:05:42 AM
I'm geekin' out right with ya. Understood what you said  :wink:


Title: Re: Guitar thread
Post by: Phil