Guitar thread

[stray]

Lol, I'm re-listening to that... Sketchy as shit! 

Hard to detect the rhythm there maybe. I'm playing with a steel string capo, which made it difficult (strings would buzz if I struck too hard). Oh well.

[edit] Here's a plucked version of the same chords. Link. Hah, now it sounds like a Tetris song. Easier to follow rhythm though, I guess. Just to get you to know where I was shooting at.

Sorry for the sketchiness though.. I was just noodling around like 5 minutes before I posted the other one. Noodling here too. Maybe I should make an actual composition out of this.

[Sky]

Sorry for the sketchiness though.. I was just noodling around like 5 minutes before I posted the other one. Noodling here too. Maybe I should make an actual composition out of this.

Now you're sounding like me!    I really like it, you should expand it to a full tune. Would you mind if I threw some vocals down on it? It's got a great swing.

On the Rebel Yell intro: he's combo picking it, he's got really good combo picking chops. Playing the walking bass with the pick and plucking the top figure with his fingers. Don't feel to bad, I can't play two lines with separate rhythms, either. It's related to why I'm not a drummer, I'll never be a great acoustic blues guitarist. I can do some fun things but it's just faking it mostly.

[penfold]

I knew I heard the name Steve Stevens elsewhere and I couldn't remember where.

Then I realised who did one of the songs on my Ace Combat 6 playlist

[stray]

Sorry for the sketchiness though.. I was just noodling around like 5 minutes before I posted the other one. Noodling here too. Maybe I should make an actual composition out of this.

Now you're sounding like me!    I really like it, you should expand it to a full tune. Would you mind if I threw some vocals down on it? It's got a great swing.

On the Rebel Yell intro: he's combo picking it, he's got really good combo picking chops. Playing the walking bass with the pick and plucking the top figure with his fingers. Don't feel to bad, I can't play two lines with separate rhythms, either. It's related to why I'm not a drummer, I'll never be a great acoustic blues guitarist. I can do some fun things but it's just faking it mostly.

I'm a lefty playing righty, so my picking chops will be off. Helps dexterity on the fretboard though.

Anyways, yeah you can put a vocal on there. I could put it in a lower key if you want. I might make at least one part for the song as well.

[stray]

I was trying something more swingy, but it turned out to be kind of hard to get right in recording. I'll look into it later maybe.

Was just gonna posting something else. It's the same wacky tuning, but with the bottom string down to C now. Again, I'm not trying to show my leet chops or anything (I don't have any), but this is an example of something completely different in that tuning. Kind of sounds like a j mascis song or something.

I'll call it.... Blowfish. Because it sounds watery and fat.

[Sky]

Eh, by the time I got it home and on the 8-track, I forgot my inspiration and nothing was fitting in. Rule #1 of writing is you have to do it when the inspiration strikes. Kinda tough when you also have to work a 9-5. Ah, well.

Stray, nobody on here has leet chops  Raph's a good singer/songwriter and I'm a good noodler, but we're nothing special compared to the big kahunas imo. Even when I'm playing fast or wailing, it's not to show off, I'm too old for that crap. I'm glad you're sharing some stuff, makes this forum more interesting :)

[Nebu]

I'll call it.... Blowfish. Because it sounds watery and fat.

I like it.  It has a really mellow feel and lots of potential for a bridge. 

About chops: what Sky said.  I'm a solid bass player and was a very good songwriter in my day, but I'm humbled by people out there doing it for a living.  Just enjoy what you're doing!

[stray]

That's all I do! Try to enjoy myself I mean. I play for my own therapy mainly. Not self conscious or anything, I don't care about chops. Just a fair warning, since I know there are some prog-ish types here. Most of my stuff is like that, just alt/poppy/punk riffage. I just spew out that stuff at will. I don't really take the time to compose anything. Especially not with a webcam mic! I like playing a lot of twangy spaghetti western leads too..With a lot of those ringing Link Wray chords. Who was the shit by the way, and didn't have "chops" in the technical sense at all.

[Abagadro]

Ok, this is an obscure question.

Anyone know who played Bark at the Moon with Ozzie at the 2007 VH1 Rock Honors?  It doesn't look like Jerry Cantrell (although I guess it could be him if he grew a beard as you don't get a great shot of his face) who is the last guitarist that I know of who was working with Ozzy. I see the video pretty much every week during Metal Mania and it bugs me that I can't place who it is.

[stray]

Had to search for it.. Never saw it before...

That's definitely Zakk.

[Abagadro]

Duh. I feel el stupido now.

Didn't realize he was back with Ozzy which is why I didn't place him.

[stray]

Heh yeah. Just remember: If the guitar has a white and black bulls-eye, if the guitarist looks like a cross between a biker and Thor, and if every other note he plays is a squeeling harmonic, then it is no other than Zakk Wylde.

Kick ass version of the song too.

[Abagadro]

Ya, I thought that version was really well done, which is why I asked. I can't believe I spaced on it being Zakk. I think this means I am getting old. 

[stray]

Oh, and speaking of bikers and Thor, does anyone here like Valient Thorr? Link (not the best track imo, but cool)

Fun band. Good, classic riffage. Records like they sound live. Funny gimmick (in this age where music woefully lack a good gimmick):

The short version of the story, as told by "Valient Himself" [his full name], goes like this: The band was traveling through time and space from Venus doing scientific research and visited Earth three times -- 1957, '63 and 2000. They were traveling in time to research ways to save life on Venus. At some point Himself and his crew stashed their time machine outside of Arlington, Virginia, and Walt Disney stole it.

"He's a wily guy," Himself said of Disney. "He could still be alive floating through space right now, or he could've just burned up. Who knows if he knows how to operate that thing?"

Now the band is stuck here on Earth attempting to find a way to save Earth from the fate of Venus through its guitar-driven, Southern-rock-meets-power-metal music.

"Warring and other things lead to the demise of our planet and we see a lot of the same things happening here on Earth," he said. "Rock n' roll on Earth is one of the most important and powerful weapons ever created. If it is used for the right things its power is unstoppable."

[Abagadro]

I just realized that the last time I saw Ozzy live was when Jake E. Lee was playing with them, i.e. 22 years ago. Good god where does the time go.

Sorry, I'm being maudlin tonight and crying in my beer.

[stray]

I have unfortunately never seen the Oz Man. He popped around here for awhile for all of this ozfests, but that was probably my last chance. I think he's getting tool old and unhealthy for touring.

I DID however, almost get in a fight with some guys from Slipknot just blocks from the ozfest. Didn't know it was slipknot at the time of course (what with them usually wearing those masks and all)... But the fuckers stole a cigarette from my buddy. We all got kicked out and the police called on us. I'm sure Ozzy would have been proud.

[Abagadro]

It was a great show. Metallica opened for him supporting Master of Puppets. I remember not liking them very much as it was the first time I had really heard speed metal. Of course a month later I bought all their albums. Heh.

We were really blessed in SLC as there was a huge metal fan base in the 80s and big acts always played here at the old Salt Palace although I do remember Iron Maiden being bumped into a convention hall because a Monster Truck show got double booked on the same date.  We were pissed but it was a good show anyways.

EDIT: Heh, and as a true "plate of shrimp" moment the A Shot in the Dark video comes on Metal Mania as I am hitting the post button.

[stray]

Damn, Metallica (with Cliff!) opening for Ozzy. I was too young for that sort of thing.

Haven't seen that many popular metal bands, for that matter. I mean.. White Zombie might be the biggest and best one (during the Thunderkiss years, not the electronic stuff). That was a small venue too, really great. Sean Yseult ended up having an appendicitis right at the hotel by my house, after the show. Not so great. She was hot.

[Abagadro]

Yes, Sean was very hot. I'll make you jealous. I saw them at the 9:30 Club (which holds at most 100 people) on that same tour. One of the most amazing "club" shows I've ever seen. We BSed our way back stage based upon running the GU radio station and hung out with them after the show (this was our schtick at the time and was incredibly effective with the bands that played the 9:30 as most weren't all that established yet, and therefore desperate to ingratiate themselves with "radio" people, although many became huge successes) . Rob was (and seems to still be) an incredibly cool guy.

[stray]

Yeah, my friend got to bullshit with them a lot because he was working in that hotel. I was jealous. I thought that band was the shit at the time. They were on tour with Prong too (really underrated)... Tommy Victor (singer/gits) I have gotten to meet since. He's a cool guy. Even wanted me to be a tech for some fucked up reason.

I miss small shows like that. Or at least "tolerable" large shows (I imagine that Oz/Metallica show couldn't have been that bad, for a large one). That's why I haven't gone to anything like ozfest to see Ozzy. I either like bars or general admission. Not to derail from metal, but my dream would be to "happen" to be in one of these bumfuck bars that the Stones apparently set up in occassionally when they're on the road. The pricing isn't the thing that gets me about modern concerts really, it's the lack of intimacy. Seeing any good band, playing in a type of place where they cut their teeth at, is the greatest thing. I've seen a couple like that when the band wasn't that big yet, and it's always good.

[Abagadro]

I agree. There really isn't anything like being up at the rail or in a tiny club at a great concert.  Being in the upper deck of some arena isn't even close.

[Sky]

I went to the Metallica/Ozzy show for Metallica. Oz was all glammed out, kinda sad. Still a decent show, but Metallica kicked his ass five ways to wednesday. Last time I saw Metallica, unless you count listening to them from the parking lot of the last woodstock while drinking beer.

I saw Oz with Zakk back in the early 90s, but he had some guy named Joe (forget the last name, one of Randy's students) who channeled Randy at the first Sabbath reunion Ozzfest. Zakk is a monster guitarist, with more range than most people give him credit for (love his southern rock).

I watched the Lennon Imagine movie for like the hundredth time last night and dug out Abbey Road. What a great album that was. Recorded a blues version of I Want You based on a Jr Wells riff. Wish I had a band, but what a pain in the ass that is.

[SnakeCharmer]

I'm a big Zakk Wylde fan.  His sound just oozes power, for lack of a better word.  I listen to No More Tears quite often, and dig every minute of it.

[stray]

Lennon was so much the shit in the post Beatles years (in the Beatles years too, of course). Imagine isn't one of the harder tracks (still like it though), but a lot of the stuff he did after the Beatles was raunchy. I love the production on those early albums, real blues-y. Also, I think Yoko wasn't such a bad influence on him.

Abbey Road is my favorite Beatles album. We should figure out how to lay some tracks with that, Sky. I can play all the parts to I Want You pretty well. Also, Paul kicks all kinds of ass on that song.

Because just gives me the chills. Sun King is another favorite track.

[edit] I've always wanted to play I Want You with someone actually. Can't do it alone and sound right really. One of the guitars needs to be a drop-D, I believe.

[stray]

Speaking of I Want You:

http://www.guitaretab.com/b/beatles/1159.html

Holy crap, I can't decipher that. I don't play it that way at all. I just start with a simple dm chord. There's another part of that main riff that's just bass strings, but I figured it was a second guitar. I'm not sure if the person in that tab is trying it all at once or not. I'll play the two parts I know here (the bassier part runs afterwards)...

Sample

[stray]

3 in a row 


Here's another cool Lennon track, Sky Well Well Well

Kind of like I Want You... In both songs, I like how he matches the vox to the main blues riff.. I can't do that shit well.

[Nebu]

Stray,

I bought The Complete Beatles a few years ago and have found it helpful in better understanding structure.  I will comment that the book is less than perfect, but does help you get the basics of the song down quickly.  Developing the rest just takes a bit of time and experience. 

It's also a bargain at that price (like $50 for 1100 some pages).

[Sky]

The Beatles are great for contemporary (ish) arrangement, harmony and composition. I wasn't that into them when I was younger, though I of course know most of their stuff (hippy uncle who played piano). When some music school friends of mine tried to turn me onto them, I was more interested in Bach (interested = obsessed, actually).

Anyway, Stray's version of IWY is waaaay more straight than the one I did. I didn't want to ass around actually learning it!  Actually, one reason I did it the way I did was thinking of playing it at the blues jam, where you can't play anything non-standard unless you have a band (because the house band + random peeps won't know it, so my version of Since I've Been Loving You languishes). So I basically made it a 12-bar blues and destroyed it, just for fun. I call it deconstructionist blues, taking what rock had progressed from the blues back to the old formats (actually that's ironic punning, because I hate deconstructionist art). I have a great version of After Midnight (Clapton) done in a real skanky delta/chicago blues.

I'd post it up, but I forgot to mix it down to stereo. I also had a HELL migraine the last couple days, so it's even worse than my usual 1-take schlock, it's one-take and not very interesting and the vocals are pitchy, dawg. I couldn't really think about it much, I was just trying to jot down the concept, mostly. Had to be 1-take because my head split apart after it, heh. Did do the guitar through the new amp, which I'm loving (with ear-plugs, I'm old and the room is small).

[stray]

Stray,

I bought The Complete Beatles a few years ago and have found it helpful in better understanding structure.  I will comment that the book is less than perfect, but does help you get the basics of the song down quickly.  Developing the rest just takes a bit of time and experience. 

It's also a bargain at that price (like $50 for 1100 some pages).

That's actually pretty expensive for me. Thanks though.

I'm not too big on books, other than theory/instructional ones. I find a lot of times that songbooks have transcriptions that are off a lot.. Sometimes with a note, or sometimes in just where they place a note (like a dm chord at the 5th fret on the A string is a different beast altogether from dm on the D string).


I don't have a problem with learning most songs anyways. Not rhythms at least. She's So Heavy isn't one my problems at least. I know that part I posted is correct. There's just another part that George plays in Drop D (you'll most hear it in the last romp at the end of song) -- it's those bass notes I posted in the last part of my clip. The blues riffs where John sings are easy. Basically though, what I'm saying is that it's at least a two person song. Doesn't sound right otherwise.

The only thing truly hard about that song is Paul. He fucking KILLS on it.

[Sky]

Kind of like I Want You... In both songs, I like how he matches the vox to the main blues riff.. I can't do that shit well.

Actually I find it much easier to stay in tune and sing along like that. The riff changes too much and I can't do both simultaneously. Hendrix showed me that trick and I'm working on it.

But yeah, you need at least two people, or a multitrack. I love mine, so glad I got it (the MR8HD). And listening to Abbey Road gives me a new appreciation of Paul, I never cared for him but I hadn't done any critical listening, either.

On books. I like them. They can fill in little things I'm missing. I'm really good at picking things up by ear, but I also like the visual. And the stuff you're saying about correcting the transcriptions, that's key, man. That's good theory in practice, it's something they teach in school, transposing things around the way you like it. One reason I never use a capo, I like to learn to play in as many keys as possible in standard setup. Then you can get into inversions and triads and stuff. I like learning the basic progressions and then fucking around with them until it morphs into something entirely different while still being the same song, spiritually. I used to do that a lot more when I smoked pot, though, I'd groove for hours on a riff and morph it all over, don't have the attention span without the weed, though. 

[Nebu]

I really recommended the book only because reading music scores often helps me get a mental image of the composition.  Tabs really do nothing for me as I often play song in a different position than most of the common tab writers (this is particularly true on bass, where I prefer playing in positions up the neck rather than down by the nut). 

If you've ever played a Hoffner, you'll know why Paul can play a lot of what he does.  They have necks more like a guitar than a bass.  Don't get me wrong though, the guy is still a very good bass player.  I've found that once I get a feel for where Paul is on the neck, that he tends to follow similar patterns in the more common songs.  Dare I say that he becomes a tad predictable. 

[stray]

See, but.. (and I hate to get all Beatles-phile here  ), Paul switched to a Rick in those later years. He was playing a Rick around Sgt Peppers till Abbey Road. The Hofner still came in every so often, but it wasn't his main thing at that point.

I understand where you getting at with his feel though. He's fairly easy to find -- it's just that he's got that thing where he floats around those areas, but adds just the right bit of chaos to it all. Almost every bar has a subtle difference, and he stays on beat doing it. It's a good middle road between ho-hum rhythm and full blown wankery. I disagree completely with predictable -- listen to I Want You again.

Another unlikely favorite bassist of mine is.... Sting! People usually laugh when I say that, but he's got that subtlety like Paul.

[Nebu]

If you want to achieve full Beatles-phile status, you'll have to do better than the Rick bit.   I'll give "I want you" a thorough listen tonight. 

I agree with you on the rest.  I'm not a huge fan of wankery though I can appreciate the skill necessary to do it well (Pastorius, Wooten, Clarke, Claypool etc).  I'm a much bigger fan of subtle and melodic.  I love the Duck, for example.   Sting is a very "listenable" bass player.  The use of a frettless in pop music was a nice (albeit not new) touch.

[stray]

Just kidding about the Beatles-phile thing, but I'm just saying. The Hofner wasn't his only thing, especially in the later/studio years. Just too damn bad that there aren't many vids from that time period to show him jamming the Rick -- There's All You Need is Love, Hello Goodbye, stuff like that. Not bass heavy songs really -- but it's the same era.

Anyways, he's admitted himself to his liking for the Hofner because it allowed him to move with speed, do more typical guitar techniques, shit like that. He was more comfortable playing with it live as well. What the Hofner sucked at was bad intonation in the high end of the neck/bassier sections (which wasn't corrected until recent models actually). He didn't play like a typical bass player with it.

"Because the Hofner's so light you play it a bit like a guitar - all that sort of high trilling stuff I used to do, I think, was because of the Hofner. When I play a heavier bass like a Fender, it sits me down a bit and I play just bass."

There's a sharp difference in the recordings after he got his Rick. He's playing more bass. It's heavier. It's not the sound of a Hofner. And unlike the Hof, he could play higher on the neck more often. Secondly, the Beatles vowed to stop playing live at that point. What Paul started doing after that was sitting around a lot in a studio -- And it was for that practical reason alone that he dropped the Hofner. You can't sit down with one. So he got a Rick -- then his sound changed. Technically, it was around Rubber Soul when he got it (and you'll hear it on Rubber Soul and Revolver tracks, like Taxman), but once they really started just becoming a studio band, that was his main instrument.

[edit] I should add that he went back to the Hof for Get Back/Let It Be period for a second, then moved to the Rick again on Abbey Road. There's a book called Beatles Gear, if you're interested in any of this. It's interesting to note some of the unlikely parts he played in songs as well.. Like the lead guitars in "And Your Bird Can Sing".

[Sky]

My bass (ESP custom shop) is very guitarish in the neck, except it's got a pretty long scale. I started on a wider neck (that got stolen), though. After my first bass was stolen, I used a friend's Rick, and it was a great bass. But I couldn't do a lot of the fiddly stuff higher on the neck, so it fits with the theory about Paul's playing. There were a couple tunes I had to basically rewrite during that period, just so I could play them live.

Also, I need to put new pickups in the puppy some day, never been happy with them.