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Raph
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Reply #350 on: October 24, 2006, 05:28:26 PM

Ack, don't start with Travis picking. Start with plain old chords. D, C, G, E, A, Em, Dm, Am. Then when you hit the "hard ones" like Bb, F, and B7, you'll feel  like a god. :) And you can stack Travis-style on top of this basic knowledge.

I learned off of songbooks for old folk songs and for singer-songwriters. Pick the music you like, though, you want songs you know in your bones so that you can hear what you're shooting for.

BTW, any acoustic guitarist should grab "Rise Up Singing" (the spiral-bound one, of course) -- yeah, it's got a ton of shit you don't want. But it's also guaranteed to have dozens you do want to learn, plus dozens more you've at least heard. And it's portable, and you'll be armed for playing when someone asks you to play something, because it does have something for damn ner everyone. Just ignore the hippie vibe. :) http://www.amazon.com/Rise-Up-Singing-Songbook-Anniversary/dp/1881322122/ref=ed_oe_o/102-9784383-0470531?ie=UTF8

stray
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Reply #351 on: October 24, 2006, 05:49:35 PM

Hell, I can barely do Travis picking very well after the length that I've been playing.

I blame it on being a lefty who learned on a righty though ;). In some cases, this can be a benefit. In others, it can be a real problem.

Either way, it's a bit advanced. I agree.

Just get basic chords and rhythms down. Your only goal right now should be getting used to fingering chords/pressing down on frets, getting every string to ring clearly throughout a chord, transitioning between chords clearly, and not sounding so sketchy when you strum.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2006, 05:59:51 PM by Stray »
Llava
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Reply #352 on: October 24, 2006, 08:31:40 PM

Another of my cousin's pieces:
http://travisaustin.bluedomino.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/downtherabbithole.mp3

Again, heavily Satriani/Vai inspired, so you ain't gonna like it if you don't like them.  Not my style personally, but some people here might enjoy it.

(It's all him, no other people.)

That the saints may enjoy their beatitude and the grace of God more abundantly they are permitted to see the punishment of the damned in hell. -Saint Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica
stray
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Reply #353 on: October 24, 2006, 08:53:51 PM

Not my thing either, but I thought it was pretty cool. I think he'd sound 10 times more impressive ripping it up within a more raw/rockin' song.

Then again, the same would go for Steve Vai and Satriani as well.
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Reply #354 on: October 24, 2006, 10:49:09 PM

Made me think of it because his name is Travis.

That the saints may enjoy their beatitude and the grace of God more abundantly they are permitted to see the punishment of the damned in hell. -Saint Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica
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Reply #355 on: October 24, 2006, 11:17:13 PM

I found some instructional videos online that's teaching notes. Figured it would be a better start than just learning off tabs. Right now I'm learning to play Ode To Joy. YAY!
Sky
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Reply #356 on: October 26, 2006, 07:13:09 AM

If you want to learn theory 'the right way', I suggest Berklee's stuff, starting with this one:

http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Method-Guitar/dp/0793545110/

I'll see Raph's oddball collection and raise you a cowboy campfire songbook:

http://www.amazon.com/Cowboy-Campfire-Songs-Tab-Guitar/dp/1569221464/

It's got some popular stuff like Clementine. I like the grim tone of the lyrics in songs like Bury Me Not On The Lone Prairie.
Quote
Ack, don't start with Travis picking.
I dunno, I did mention I'm not good with teaching :P Unless my suggestion to find a few mates, get piss drunk and have at some music is good teaching...
Damn Dirty Ape
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Reply #357 on: October 26, 2006, 02:31:40 PM

This is a cool thread.

I did mention I'm not good with teaching :P Unless my suggestion to find a few mates, get piss drunk and have at some music is good teaching...

That's the way I learned my first few chords.  My step-father and his brothers would cook fish in a cauldron, get all liquored up, and play bluegrass on Saturday night.  Of course, I was too young at the time to drink but it's the thought that counts.

I'm still pretty much a n00b on guitar.  I play sporadically but I love it and enjoy instruments themselves as works of art.  Currently, I've got a Rickenbacker 4003 bass, a Geddy Lee signature Fender Jazz bass, and a 60th anniversary Fender Strat that I just picked up a couple of months ago.  The Ric is in bad need of repairs with a stripped-thread volume knob and bridge screw.   I could probably replace the volume knob myself but I'd like to get someone with experience to work on the bridge, perhaps replacing it with a Bad Ass.

Here's a video from Dead Meadow, a band I'm currently digging mightily at the moment:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2SnG7iE4c4
« Last Edit: October 26, 2006, 02:37:57 PM by Damn Dirty Ape »
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Reply #358 on: October 26, 2006, 02:48:57 PM

Heh. For a second there, I thought you said you were gigging with Dead Meadow (as in, you were in Dead Meadow).  :-D

But yeah, cool band.

...

Those are cool instruments for a "n00b". What year is that Ric? Is it old and beat up, or just fairly new and in need of repairs?
Damn Dirty Ape
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Reply #359 on: October 26, 2006, 03:07:06 PM

Heh. For a second there, I thought you said you were gigging with Dead Meadow (as in, you were in Dead Meadow).  :-D

I wish.  Given their sound, I imagine they tour in their Mystery Machine, solving groovy mysteries along the way.

Quote
Those are cool instruments for a "n00b". What year is that Ric? Is it old and beat up, or just fairly new and in need of repairs?

It's an '85 model.  I bought it used back in '95 from an evangelist who was hesitant to sell it to a long-haired hippie type but I won him over in the end.  It played without a single problem up until about two years ago, and that's when I decided to pack it up and get the Jazz bass.  I prefer the bottom end sound of the Jazz over the Ric, but no other bass cuts through mid and high ranges like a Ric can.  I'm a big sucker for that Chris Squire/Geddy Lee type sound.
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Reply #360 on: October 26, 2006, 03:20:58 PM

This is a cool thread.

I did mention I'm not good with teaching :P Unless my suggestion to find a few mates, get piss drunk and have at some music is good teaching...

That's the way I learned my first few chords.  My step-father and his brothers would cook fish in a cauldron, get all liquored up, and play bluegrass on Saturday night.  Of course, I was too young at the time to drink but it's the thought that counts.

I'm still pretty much a n00b on guitar.  I play sporadically but I love it and enjoy instruments themselves as works of art.  Currently, I've got a Rickenbacker 4003 bass, a Geddy Lee signature Fender Jazz bass, and a 60th anniversary Fender Strat that I just picked up a couple of months ago.  The Ric is in bad need of repairs with a stripped-thread volume knob and bridge screw.   I could probably replace the volume knob myself but I'd like to get someone with experience to work on the bridge, perhaps replacing it with a Bad Ass.

Here's a video from Dead Meadow, a band I'm currently digging mightily at the moment:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2SnG7iE4c4

Nice axes (particularly the Ric - love those things, but they're too pricey for me), and many thanks for the YouTube link/band recommendation - good stuff.

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penfold
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Reply #361 on: October 27, 2006, 06:11:34 PM

Just discovered this online jam app tonight, thought was worth a mention.

http://www.ninjam.com/

Just had a long jam with a friend, and it worked well. Had it set up in minutes, I ran the server and my own client, and just used pod via usb and set ninjam's input and output to asio and it was ready to go.

Anyone else tried this type of thing? This was near the top of a google search, but noticed some others too.



stray
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Reply #362 on: October 27, 2006, 11:50:53 PM

There used to be something called the Rocket(?) Network. Something like that. You could jam, but it was mainly used for collaborating. It was bundled with a stripped down version of Logic (when Logic was owned by Logic, and not by Apple).

This is pretty cool though.

I'm still strapped for mics, but I might have something crappy lying around for input. I'd love to jam with you guys.
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Reply #363 on: November 18, 2006, 10:45:55 PM

Alrighty, so I just bought myself a Spencer acoustic. Nothing fancy.

I also don't know how to play guitar. I can play the piano, so I figured I could pick up the guitar no-problem. Turns out my music reading skill has atrophed mightily, so I've turned to tabs. I've fooled around with them a bit, but my biggest problem is moving my uncoordinated left hand around the neck in to hit the next chord in time. Do you experienced guitar players have any tips for easy tabs of recognizable songs for an acoustic guitar?

I listen to mostly classic rock, so those are really the songs I know best. Furthermore, my not-so-distant goal is to be able to play "Kiss Me" by Sixpence None the Richer for my wife. She loves that song. I do alright until I hit the chords that look similar to this on a tablature:

0            3
1            3
2            4
3            5
-            5
1            3

Could anyone help me out with the fingering of those?
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Reply #364 on: November 19, 2006, 05:14:41 AM

Them be barre chords...

A little hard to form for a newbie, but it's merely a physical thing. Takes practice is all I can say. Your index finger needs to lie flat, straight down on the fretboard:



That's a picture of a G barre chord (edit: wait, he's lifting up his middle finger, so in actuality it's a G minor....same basic concept though):

3
3
4
5
5
3

====================

Here's another way to break it down:

3 -- Index finger, 1st string, 3rd fret
3 -- Index finger, 2nd string, 3rd fret
4 -- Middle finger, 3rd string, 4th fret
5 -- Pinky finger, 4th string, 5th fret
5 -- Ring finger, 5th string, 5th fret
3 -- Index finger, 6th string, 3rd fret


Note, "6th string" means the big, bass string, and "1st string" means the thinnest string. Standard numbering conventions count from bottom to top, high notes to low.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2006, 05:23:38 AM by Stray »
Big Gulp
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Reply #365 on: November 19, 2006, 06:22:55 AM

climbjtree
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Reply #366 on: November 19, 2006, 12:17:19 PM

Hey Stray, thanks for the help - that picture was extra useful. I will point out that I'm not so much of a newb that I don't know which strings are which :)

I'm having a lot of fun learning how to play the guitar. I already know how to read music, so thats bonus, but I am not familiar with the chords and such so I can't read fast enough to play at speed. That's why tabs are a godsend.

Thanks again Stray.
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Reply #367 on: November 19, 2006, 12:38:18 PM

No prob.

Heh, when I said newb, I was only referring to the "dexterous" aspect of guitar playing. ;)

Since you have experience with pianos, you more than halfway there, as far as music making goes.
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Reply #368 on: November 19, 2006, 05:16:37 PM

Another question for you Stray:

I've had more luck with fingerpicking style than chord songs so far. For instance, Classical Gas is something I would think that I'd never be able to play. I was bored, though, and found a tab and after a hour or so of practice I can play through the intro and into some of the first verse. Maybe I should learn more about that style of playing? Know of any good online references for that kind of stuff? Also, I'd really like to learn a bit about the blues style so that I can sit and do a lot of improv, but I've yet to find a site for that stuff with good info.
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Reply #369 on: November 19, 2006, 06:05:19 PM

I'm a pretty shitty fingerstyle player, so I'm the last to ask there. I can get by alright, but I'm a lefty who learned righty -- my picking/right hand technique is lacking.

Whether you like fingerstyling or not though, you'll still have to learn chords. It's fundamental. Even with fingerstyling, you're still forming chord shapes with your left hand.

As for Blues...Hmm, I don't know any online sources really. There's a nice little book though called "101 Must Know Blues Licks" that charts riffs and lines from pre-war Charlie Christian/Robert Johnson type blues to Delta style to Memphis to early British rock. It's cheap, helpful, and comes with a CD as well. It's a good way to learn blues lead concepts (through riffs, instead of indirectly through pentatonic theory).

Some groundwork needs to be laid though -- mainly physical stuff. You need to get comfortable bending strings, learning how to do hammer ons and slides smoothly. That sort of thing.

All that being said, the first thing you should do is just learn basic rock songs you like. You mentioned Classic Rock earlier -- Can you give a specific example? Sabbath? Zep? Neil Young? The Beatles? Punk?


Either way, many rock rhythms can be played or imitated with power chords (especially hard rock, metal, and punk). Power chords are just basic 2 or 3 string chords.

Like that G barre chord above would just be this in power chord form:

5
5
3


« Last Edit: November 19, 2006, 06:12:59 PM by Stray »
climbjtree
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Reply #370 on: November 19, 2006, 06:51:40 PM

Again, thanks for the help Stray.

Songs I've been working on, from most interested to least:

Kiss Me by Sixpence None the Richer
Classical Gas - Eric Clapton version and only because I seem to have good luck with it.
Canon in D - Pachelbel and because it's the individual string picking style
Give Me One Reason - Tracey Chapman and because it's good and bluesish.
House of the Rising Sun - Animals and again bluesey.
Horse With No Name - Neil Diamond and because I can play it with two chords only.

As far as classic rock goes, it's typically stuff like Clapton, Cream, The Who, The JHE - that type of music.
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Reply #371 on: November 19, 2006, 07:07:58 PM

Some Clapton and Who is easy, some really complex.

White Room and Sunshine are easy. My Generation and I Can't Explain are easy. -- Do a Google tab search for those.

Layla isn't easy. Love Ain't for Keeping isn't easy.

House of the Rising Sun -- Definitely a 'rite of passage' type of song:

Am, C, D, F, Am, C, E, E

Am, C, D, F, Am, E, Am, E
« Last Edit: November 19, 2006, 07:09:48 PM by Stray »
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Reply #372 on: November 19, 2006, 07:37:46 PM

Hey Stray, have you got AIM or something? It would make these conversations easier.

Either way, my biggest problem is fighting my rampant ADD. If I sit and concentrate on one thing for a while I will certainly improve. However, I flop between too many songs and never get anywhere. Actually, that's my downfall in MMO's too.
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Reply #373 on: November 19, 2006, 07:44:03 PM

Don't have an IM atm.

As for the ADD:

You need to learn a song you really, really like  cool. That way you'll enthrall yourself to learning it, and stay enthusiastic each time it sounds more and more like the real thing.
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Reply #374 on: November 20, 2006, 07:35:05 AM

I'm the king of song ADD, you'll never beat me because I have such a long headstart.

I jammed with a couple folks on some acoustics last week. They were folkies, and looked at me to pick a song. I just kinda shrugged and had to admit I really don't know any front to back. I can cobble a few together (I did Old Man by Young and Wish You Were Here by Floyd...because they were folkies). But I sit in like a mofo, they did Scarborough Fair and I tried to pick out the melody with some success but played some great minor leads and fills. Basically, if I can play a minor lead, I'm jamming, if not, I'm struggling :)

I also found I really need to work on my rhythms, I tend to wander into leads. The folkies laid down a decent 12 bar for me to play over, and then I basically forced the guy to do a solo (they were both very tentative players, which was too bad because they're both solid). I had a real hard time staying focused on rhythm playing.

My Fostex MR8HD comes in today. I'm hoping that will help me focus on song structure again, it's the skill that seems to be eluding me the most, as I don't really jam with others much.

Climbjtree: check out the entire thread, there's a few fingerpicking suggestions. I have one book that I keep ignoring, beginning blues fingerpicking or something. Alternate bass thumb independent of melody fingers makes hulk smash.
Sky
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Reply #375 on: November 20, 2006, 07:39:58 AM

That sounds a lot like where I am on acoustic blues right now. I have a pretty aggressive style, especially when I fingerpick it, I have a tendency to pop the strings. Holdover from playing the bass for so many years, I had a super loud aggressive style on the bass. I dislike namby-pamby guys who barely brush the strings :) You gots to rough her up to get her to scream, babies.
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Reply #376 on: November 20, 2006, 03:43:03 PM

Holy shit!

Someone on youtube has posted video of Rush performing "2112", "Anthem", and "Bastille Day" live from 1976.  I've collected bootleg audio/video for Rush for many years now and this is the first time I've even heard of, much less seen, live footage from this era.

2112 (part 1):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jm08ZO9fZqw&mode=related&search=

2112 (part 2):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_QJMYIRvRA&mode=related&search=

Anthem:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15GXZ8lvLBg&mode=related&search=

Bastille Day:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCt4orYLBJA&mode=related&search=
Raph
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Reply #377 on: November 20, 2006, 05:28:48 PM

Climbjtree, you don't need to do that G barre if you don't want to. You can play the open G and get by, at least until you feel comfy with barre chords.

In fact, newbies often learn a "cheap G" where they play xx0003. (finger the open G chord shape but don't try for the bass strings).

For blues suitable for beginners, I suggest Pride and Joy by SRV. Ignore the fills, just try to master the basic chords first, then layer in the bass line.

If you want advice on fingerpicking, I can probably help out where Sky can't. :)
Sky
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Reply #378 on: November 21, 2006, 08:27:39 AM

Arg, I wouldn't recommend Pride & Joy. For me, at least, the strum is very tough. The walking bass I can pull off, but the high strings backstrum is so damned awkward. Maybe something like Mannish Boy, bada bada bump! All E without chord changes. And also Hootchie Cootchie Man, a solid 12 bar (though Muddy was very loose with the format, more like a 10-15 bar, heh).

Blues basics are easy. 12 bar I-IV-V, most blues follow this format, often with 7th chords for the IV and V. Once you get the basic chording down, work on a shuffle which is the 02xxxx-04xxxx repetition (IV = x02xxx-x04xxx, V = x24xxx-x26xxx, etc). Then get into turnarounds to glue it together. Solo with a minor pentatonic (1, m3, 4, 5, d7, 8; in E: e, g, a, b, d, e). That's basically the blues, with about a gajillion things you can do within the framework. The best thing to do is listen to some Muddy Waters and play along, imo. And remember: you can never play the blues too slow (Muddy's phrase, not mine :)).

My open G always defaults to 320033, it's hard for me to do a standard open G. Sucks because it makes open G7s tougher for me. Ah well, I'm a horrid mishmash of styles and learning :)

First comments on the Fostex MR8HD unit: It's pretty slick. Metal unit, sliders are a bit cheesy, but it's a relatively low-end unit. It lists for $400, I paid $350 at musician's friend. 40GB hard drive in it. Display is very tiny, the unit is a bit loud due to the hd spin. Forgot to buy a punch-in switch and headphones :P Going to spend a few days learning the interface and then try to get something up for you guys to hear. Can't wait to start recording some of my truly stupid ideas, like my blues version of Jay Z's '99 Problems'.
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Reply #379 on: November 24, 2006, 12:35:52 PM

Arpeggios from Hell

Interesting to see all the modes Yngwie goes through.  My only complaint is that it would have been more interesting to hear clean. 

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Sky
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Reply #380 on: November 24, 2006, 02:06:47 PM

He has great technique but I get bored pretty fast with that stuff. Especially the rhythm section, no groove at all. It's the 'hey look at me' show, blah. I wasn't a big fan of shred even back in the day when I could do some shred. Now shred is 'in' again. I'd rather listen to someone creative like the cat playing with Mars Volta, or more traditional stuff like Warren Haynes or Derek Trucks.

Shred? Bah. Maybe I'll be happier about it if the new shred trend gets rid of cookie monster vocals.
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Reply #381 on: November 24, 2006, 02:51:03 PM

He has great technique but I get bored pretty fast with that stuff.

I agree completely.  I was more interested in the modes and neck usage.  The guy obviously has a firm grasp of theory... he must have gotten that in exchange for his soul.  That's what his music has always lacked, soul.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
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Reply #382 on: November 25, 2006, 05:30:04 AM

I guess the shredders can do all that hold out a note for 5 mins whilst making fuckfaces so the audience can hold lighters in the air malarkey, it's just that their market dont want anything less than 10 note a second neo classical stuff. Yngwie's been churning out variations of Far beyond the Sun for decades heh. I don't mind heavily arpeggiated music anyway, I was brought up on electronica and classical.

There's a time and place for guitar music with soul too, I saw my first Slayer concert on Monday. I don't think they are going for that type of emotional response. There's feeling to it, but as it's the musical equivilent of an artillery barrage it's a bit more physical and tangible than a bluesman's licks.

Here's a bit of guitar wankery thats a little bit more musical than chaining endless sweep argeggio's
« Last Edit: November 25, 2006, 06:53:37 AM by penfold »
stray
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Reply #383 on: November 25, 2006, 10:21:41 AM

I saw my first Slayer concert on Monday. I don't think they are going for that type of emotional response. There's feeling to it, but as it's the musical equivilent of an artillery barrage it's a bit more physical and tangible than a bluesman's licks.

Here's a bit of guitar wankery thats a little bit more musical than chaining endless sweep argeggio's


I always thought of Slayer, or just about any thrash/death metal guitar players, as percussionists. With a few exceptions.

I feel that's the kind of state of mind I have to be in when jamming with metal buddies as well. I just don't really feel like a "guitar player"....The way I see it.

Not to say I don't like it though. Slayer riffs are the shit. Raining Blood, Behind the Crooked Cross --   Rock Out
« Last Edit: November 25, 2006, 10:28:52 AM by Stray »
Raph
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Reply #384 on: November 26, 2006, 08:53:59 PM

This thread lacks acoustic stuff in it.  :-D

Months ago, I broke the 4th string on my 112-year-old banjo that I think I have mentioned here before. Since it predates steel strings, that means I had to go looking for gut or nylon. I ended up getting several sets of LaBella nylons that seemed like they were decent. Then I picked up one set of Aquila "Nylgut" strings, which are supposed to have the same characteristics as gut. They cost like it too... one set was $8, whereas $8 got me three sets of the LaBellas. The Aquila ones are what the guy who fixed up the banjo put on there in the first place. I replaced the broken 4th with a LaBella for now. I figure, I'll try replacing them all with the complete Aquila set when they wear out.

This means I started playing banjo again for the first time in ages.

I was getting these strings at Elderly Instruments because of course nobody close by stocks weird-ass banjo strings. (I went to three stores and only two of them even had the steel strings). Elderly has free shipping if you get your order large enough. So I figured I should shop. I picked up some polish and fretboard cleaner and the like.

Then I grabbed a Kyser partial capo, because my usual trick of turning the capo upside-down doesn't work so well on the Melody Maker (which I love to play, btw, you may get me to try doing more electric stuff just because of this guitar). This is great for doing the partial capo 3-4-5 thing, which I do a lot, but I also do other things (for example, partial 2-3-4-5-6 at the 5th fret, or 1-2-3-4 at a variety of frets, particularly when in DADGAD tuning) and this won't help with those. But for what it does, it's really nice, much nicer than the upside-down solution.

This led me to also find this thing called a Third Hand Capo -- basically, you can capo each string independently. It's basically an elastic capo, but with rotatable plastic ovals for each string. You just roll them out of the way. Unfortunately, well, it's an elastic capo. It does let me do all of my weird capoings (hey, at least I have mostly stopped doing double capoing -- one regular and then a partial above it!) so I may mess with it for that purpose.

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