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Author Topic: Baldur's Gate 3  (Read 1175 times)
Cadaverine
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on: June 06, 2019, 11:33:04 AM

Announcement trailer

Made by Larian Studios.

Looks like it's going to be a watered down version of 5th Edition.  Online multiplayer.  Set 100 years after BGII.  On Google Stadia for reasons.  Mindflayers.

https://www.usgamer.net/articles/larian-studios-shares-its-vision-for-baldurs-gate-3-interview
« Last Edit: June 06, 2019, 11:42:15 AM by Cadaverine »

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Sky
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Reply #1 on: June 06, 2019, 01:10:41 PM

I must gather my party before not giving a shit.

Rasix
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Reply #2 on: June 06, 2019, 01:19:56 PM

Note: it's not a Stadia exclusive.

Larian is great, but I'll reserve judgement until there's something other than just a cinematic teaser.

-Rasix
Soulflame
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Reply #3 on: June 06, 2019, 01:31:18 PM

As long as it's not a Stadia exclusive.

Now I want to fire up BG.  Where did I put that Enhanced Edition...
lamaros
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Reply #4 on: June 06, 2019, 09:32:20 PM

I must gather my party before not giving a shit.

Useful contribution.

I love the BG games and really like D:OS, so I'm very excited. I hope they make a great game.

Expect poison from the standing water.
Lucas
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Reply #5 on: June 07, 2019, 09:22:26 AM

Holy shit, I love those crazy belgians so much  awesome, for real awesome, for real Heart

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LI4v6hC_rjM  (BG 3 Community Update #1).

Anyways, we might get something more pretty soon, specifically during PC Gamer's "Gaming Show" at E3 (Monday June 10th, 1pm EDT/6pm CET). Sometimes, those gaming show segments are just interviews, but hey, they might sneak in at least 2-3 screenshots (I would be pretty surprised to see some gameplay already).

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Teleku
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Reply #6 on: June 07, 2019, 09:23:56 AM

Hmm, so its not going to use any edition.  Itís going to be Larian creating their own ĎD&Dí inspired system. Which sure, can be fine, but for me a big part of playing the Baulderís Gate games is getting a chance to play with PNP D&D in all its wonky glory in video form, though all 20 levels (especially since I will never in my life sit down long enough to do that with the actual PNP game).  This sort of sounds like they are making D:OS 3, with a D&D re-skin.  Pretty bummed.

Edit:  Ok, maybe stand corrected.  One article I read said they had tried to translate the rules, but it didnít work, so they were just doing their own interpretation.  But then I found another with more info about that response:

Quote
There are some things on the chopping block, however. It's an interpretation of D&D, specifically 5th Edition, because porting the core rules, which Larian tried to do, doesn't work. Or it works, Vincke clarifies, but it's no fun at all. One of the culprits is missing when you're trying to hit an enemy, and while the combat system has yet to be revealed, you can at least look forward to being able to smack people more consistently.

"You miss a lot in D&Dóif the dice are bad, you miss," he says. "That doesn't work well in a videogame. If I do that, you're going to review it and say it's shit. Our approach has been implementing it as pure as we can, and then just seeing what works and what doesn't. Stuff that doesn't work, we start adapting until it does."  

This interpretation should still be more true to the tabletop RPG than its predecessors, however, capturing the feel of D&D even if it's not borrowing every single system and rule. Some of this is because of a difference in technology. Black Isle faced a lot of limitations that Larian doesn't. The studio has invested heavily in this side of things, as well as in staff, who now number in the hundreds. Internally, 200 people are working on Baldur's Gate 3, while another hundred are working on it externally.

Missing a rat 15 times in a row with your giant club is a BG tradition!
« Last Edit: June 07, 2019, 09:36:26 AM by Teleku »

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HaemishM
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Reply #7 on: June 07, 2019, 10:06:24 AM

Playing the original Baldur's Gate in the last few years convinced me that the D&D rules are really really shit. They were great in the vacuum of the '80's, but generally speaking, they are just shit. There are so many better systems for PNP, and especially for video games.

Lucas
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Reply #8 on: June 07, 2019, 10:07:14 AM

Missing a rat 15 times in a row with your giant club is a BG tradition!

LOL, yeah :).

There is another interesting interview that goes a little more in-depth when it comes to the transition from 2nd to 5th edition and the translation to the computer screen:

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2019/06/06/baldurs-gate-3-announced-from-the-creators-of-divinity-original-sin/
---

Their approach makes sense: they take a look at the various PnP game systems the 5th editions offers and see what can be translated to a *modern* computer game and how. *Modern* in the sense that, at least by reading these first interviews, WoTC gave them much more flexibility and "carte blanche" than expected, or so it seems.

If you think about it, in 1998 those of us who were 20+  and played CRPGs since the eighties were excited because BG was seen itself as a "renaissance" of the Gold Box games, which were sometimes a 1:1 translation of the PnP modules.

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Reply #9 on: June 07, 2019, 11:46:03 AM

Playing the original Baldur's Gate in the last few years convinced me that the D&D rules are really really shit. They were great in the vacuum of the '80's, but generally speaking, they are just shit. There are so many better systems for PNP, and especially for video games.

Totally agreed, the games are unplayable given the advances we've made in the genre today.

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Wasted
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Reply #10 on: June 07, 2019, 04:11:44 PM

If any other company was doing this I wouldn't give a shit but the Original Sin games are far superior isometric rpg's than Baldur's Gate 1+2.
Raguel
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Reply #11 on: June 10, 2019, 10:09:21 AM

If any other company was doing this I wouldn't give a shit but the Original Sin games are far superior isometric rpg's than Baldur's Gate 1+2.

I never played them. In what way are they superior to BG? Graphics, gameplay, story, all of the above?
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Reply #12 on: June 10, 2019, 02:55:49 PM

They're really good games that were clearly inspired by Baldur's Gate. Calling them far superior is silly other than the fact they take advantage of tech advances. Story-wise they're probably roughly on par with Baldur's Gate. Gameplay, each of the games has pros and cons in my opinion but generally, I didn't feel like there was a huge difference on the gameplay side minus some QoL stuff that, once again, is primarily due to tech advances and lessons learned in the 30(?) years since the BG games were out.

They are really, really good games and easily the best modern isometric RPGs and in the top 5 RPGs of the last decade or two. But far superior to Baldur's Gate I & II? I think not.

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Wasted
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Reply #13 on: June 10, 2019, 09:15:58 PM

D&D should always be turn based.  The Infinity engines all suffered from their real time/pause command combat.  To be honest I preferred the old SSI games than the Infinity Engine ones.

I was never able to finish an IE game, no matter how much I wanted to like them the combat was never fun.  I tried the hardest in BG2 and got pretty far but they also never got the trash/boss balance right imo (working on very old memories) and the spell slot system and having to rest all the time because entering any fight without your dispel magic and other counter magic for the inevitable casters in every fight just pulled me right out of the game.

The turn-based combat in Original Sin is excellent, so much better than the IE games, the action point system and powers design are better than D&D spell slots too.  The encounters are just paced better too. 

If BG3 isn't turn-based though and they try to make it more like 1+2 my interest will dwindle very quickly.
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Reply #14 on: June 10, 2019, 11:06:28 PM

100% agreed about turn-based being superior for this kind of game, especially from a tactical combat perspective. Most enemy AI in BG1/2 is way too dumb, but if anyone played the 'Chosen of Cyric' encounter in the BG2 rogue rebalancing mod, it showcases this problem pretty clearly -- the enemy scripts are advanced enough to respond to basically everything you do, including repositioning themselves on-the-fly, switching targets to deal with spellcasters, etc. I can't see anyone beating that encounter (outside a ridiculously overpowered party) without pausing literally every 2 seconds, at which point a TB system would be waaaay better.

(Incidentally, I think the SSI Dark Sun games are superior to the BG games on a design level, despite the simplistic graphics... and the bugs. oh god the bugs)

lamaros
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Reply #15 on: June 11, 2019, 12:19:11 AM

DoS has a much better turn based system in many ways, but the skills and attributes systems were still flawed and unbalanced in significant areas.

And their equipment systems were less fun than BG. I'm not a fan of the Diablo style loot.

DoS2 has a much much worse companion and quest system than bg2. But the main stories and plots were fairly equivalent in execution I'd say.

Larian improved a lot between dos 1 and 2 though, there's no reason to think bg3 won't be a better game again.

Expect poison from the standing water.
Jeff Kelly
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Reply #16 on: June 11, 2019, 03:02:11 AM

DoS2 suffers from a lot of the mechanics being half baked and from being an 80 hour game with about 30 hours of content.
amiable
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Reply #17 on: June 25, 2019, 08:17:41 AM

I hope they stick with turn based, I really enjoyed DOS:2 except for the loot system, which was horrible.
Job601
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Reply #18 on: July 01, 2019, 11:22:39 AM

Original Sin 2 is a great game in many ways but even the remastered edition feels like unfinished Eurojank a lot of the time.  It's very easy to break certain encounters, be allowed to save in the middle, and then be forced to spend hours watching npcs around or start over - I'm thinking of the trainer in the swamp who's fighting the soldiers and the ghosts who can't be killed if there's fire around towards the end of the game in particular, but there are more. I'm also not a fan of how the high difficulty levels are balanced on a knife's edge so that enemies a single level higher than you can be completely unkillable and then pushovers after you level up.  It makes the game into a search for which content is completable at your level, which really undermines the open world quest structure. All that said, the combat is still really satisfying most of the time.  Unlike a lot of people, I'm not a fan of the story because of the wild swings in tone and the repeated failure to establish the personalities of important characters, but the game does have a lot of interesting role playing decisions. I'd really like Baldur's Gate 3 to be slightly more accessible and polished.
koro
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Reply #19 on: July 01, 2019, 10:25:11 PM

100% agreed about turn-based being superior for this kind of game, especially from a tactical combat perspective. Most enemy AI in BG1/2 is way too dumb, but if anyone played the 'Chosen of Cyric' encounter in the BG2 rogue rebalancing mod, it showcases this problem pretty clearly -- the enemy scripts are advanced enough to respond to basically everything you do, including repositioning themselves on-the-fly, switching targets to deal with spellcasters, etc. I can't see anyone beating that encounter (outside a ridiculously overpowered party) without pausing literally every 2 seconds, at which point a TB system would be waaaay better.

I had a fairly overpowered party, and not only did it take about five hours worth of attempts and reloads to beat the Chosen of Cyric party, I had to do a not-insignificant amount of pre-planning and pre-fight setup of spell sequencers and contingencies. I even had to look up how certain mechanics actually worked in BG2, because you would never have them used against you any other time, like that one guy who casts Mislead and runs his clone off into the fog of war.

Of course there was also a ton of pausing, and I had to eventually set auto-pause to fire at the end of every single round after a single missed pause at a critical moment caused me to be a half second too late to react to something that started a death spiral.
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Reply #20 on: July 02, 2019, 12:51:10 AM

Does the Rogue rebalancing mod change missile combat to something less unbroken? Because once you found out that it works for everything, its really hard to not cheese your way through the harder passages of the game.  awesome, for real
« Last Edit: July 02, 2019, 12:54:59 AM by Tebonas »
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