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Author Topic: Avengers: Endgame  (Read 13520 times)
jgsugden
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Reply #175 on: May 31, 2019, 12:57:00 PM

Put it this way: If you lived in that world, and your significant other and kids disappeared into dust, and the explanation given was an alien used magic level technology to wipe out half the living beings - everywhere - an that the heroes traveled into space, found the alien, and were trying to undue the whole snap... but failed because that magic was now gone... Would you say, "Oh, well... I guess that is that.  Looks like there are a bunch of newly single folks out there." 

Cap was trying to help people move on because they couldn't.  He couldn't.  That is why there would be some preparations.  As noted, they would likely be incapable of handling the full impact, but the question of "what if X returns into the world" is something people would have considered... a lot ... from every perspective that matters.

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Khaldun
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Reply #176 on: May 31, 2019, 02:54:20 PM

Good job not paying attention to the film.

The film expressly illustrates that some people DID move on. Tony Stark moved on, in multiple ways. He's not out chasing bad guys in his armor or even worrying much about his company. He's found the peace he never knew he wanted. The Hulk/Banner moved on, in a way he'd never been able to before. In some ways, Valkryie moved on just fine--she's been a leader after having been a misanthropic, lost person for decades. There's clearly places where people are living basically happy lives--look at the diner where they meet with Professor Hulk--nobody's moping in encounter groups there.

I guarantee if half the people on Earth disappeared in a mystical or religious event, there would be pragmatic and stoical people who would just get right back at the business of living. There are other people who might actually be happy that their status quo changed. Now I do think at about five years out, they'd be cresting over the edge of "Wow, Playstation 4s and cars are basically free now" into "wait, I'm getting kind of tired of watching the same movies on Netflix".
jgsugden
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Reply #177 on: June 02, 2019, 12:06:30 AM

Good job not paying attention to the film.

The film expressly illustrates that some people DID NOT move on.

And those people would be the ones that made preparations. 

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Velorath
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Reply #178 on: June 02, 2019, 02:22:16 AM

I have no idea what preparation you could make for 50% of the world's population disappearing and then coming back 5 years later, the same age they were when they disappeared. What preparation do you make for kids who lost both parents for 5 years of their lives? How many people would have put their lives entirely on hold for 5 years out of blind hope that everyone would come back? Who would never move or remarry? How many peoples' empty homes and apartments had everything thrown out or stolen while they were gone, and then someone else moved in? Was every homeless survivor just told to wait the fuck outside in case everyone comes back? How many important jobs couldn't get done because half the people with the specific training or skill sets vanished? If your spouse died in one of the presumably numerous plane crashes or car accidents that must have occurred directly following the snap, or because the surgeon working on their heart at the time turned to dust, are you assuming the Avengers are going to bring them back as well? If you do get remarried, what kind of preparation can you really make for if your previous spouse comes back? Are all these new couples just going to agree to break it off?

I mean really, we have a hard enough time preparing for and dealing with natural disasters that occur several times a year. The snap would result in immediate chaos, people trying to take advantage of the situation, probably PTSD and other mental issues for a large percentage of the population, to say nothing of the number of suicides that would occur. This isn't a situation that lends itself to a widespread plan of how we're going to get things mostly back to normal once the Snap gets undone.  This is also not the kind of story Disney/Marvel and Sony are prepared to tell. I'm pretty sure more than anything, Sony just wants to put out a Spider-man movie where Peter goes on a class trip to Europe. The fact that things are back to normal enough that a school trip to Europe is even a thing (as opposed to helping rebuild society, or not wanting to spend a couple weeks away from the parent who just had to live 5 years without you) suggest to me that the references to Endgame will be mostly what we saw in the trailer.
Ironwood
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Reply #179 on: June 02, 2019, 03:19:12 AM

Yeah.  The only trauma you're going to see is the aftermath of some teenager losing a rich douchebag who was mostly a cunt to him.


"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
jgsugden
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Reply #180 on: June 02, 2019, 09:48:25 AM

I have no idea what preparation you could make for 50% of the world's population disappearing and then coming back 5 years later, the same age they were when they disappeared...
Prepare for everything?  Of course not.  Did I ever even come close to saying they'd be prepared for everything?  No - I said Iwas annoyed that all of these articles, apparently like some people here, are short sighted and can only imagine that there were no preparations - at all - made for a return.  Pointing out indiviudal problems that are hard/impossible to address is kind of missing the point. 

Put yourself in the shoes of Joe Shmoe in that universe.  Your wife and one of your kids melts in front of you due to, essentially, magic.  The Avengers try to fix it and fail.  Do you shrug your shoulders and move on?  Or are you asking, "What will you try next?"  If you still have hope of a return, and there are all those articles out there talking about how if there were a return the world would be unprepared and people would starve - what would you do if you were holding onto hope? 

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Velorath
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Reply #181 on: June 02, 2019, 11:15:36 AM

I have no idea what preparation you could make for 50% of the world's population disappearing and then coming back 5 years later, the same age they were when they disappeared...
Prepare for everything?  Of course not.  Did I ever even come close to saying they'd be prepared for everything?

No, you left it almost completely vague about what "preparing" would actually entail except maybe couples talking about what would happen if their previous spouse came back (which still isn't going to spare anybody the emotional distress that is going to come along with that situation).

If I'm in the shoes of someone in the MCU? Well to start with I'm probably terrified. Aliens have attacked the planet before, the organization that was supposed to help protect people broke up because it had been infiltrated by Nazis, a city was lifted up into the air by a killer AI, then the Avengers broke up with Captain America being a fugitive. I don't know what level of confidence I'm going to have in the Avengers fixing everything, especially with Iron Man and Thor basically retired. 6 months after the Snap I'm maybe still trying to hold onto some hope. After 5 years? The people still clinging to hope that everyone is coming back would probably be considered delusional by a lot of people (and in the other 14 million outcomes Strange saw those people would pretty much be delusional).
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Reply #182 on: June 02, 2019, 02:06:29 PM

The talk of "preparing" just makes no sense. Five years later, all the jobs those people had have been filled and companies restructured around the smaller workforce. All those suddenly empty homes - you don't think the majority have been taken over or at minimum completely looted? All those bank accounts, stocks, cars, possessions - they all belonged to dead people - they aren't just sitting waiting in limbo to be reclaimed. Five years of food production being cut in half, and now overnight there are twice as many people in the world to feed.

The problem is, five years would have given the world time to adjust. And now you suddenly have massive overpopulation. No amount of a few people "preparing" would fix that.

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jgsugden
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Reply #183 on: June 02, 2019, 06:54:03 PM

You guys keep on saying, "Look, there is some aspect that is going to be problematic.  So there could be no meaningful preparation."  That is kinfd f insane.  It is like saying, "No matter how hard you prepare, if there is a big enough storm, there is going to be flood damage.  Obviously, there could be no meaningful flood preparation." 

Could governments have demanded that there be massive food and water stores in case there was a return?  Yes.  In fact, there likely would have been a lot of lobbying for such a thing by the greedy business folks that would provide those stores of materials.  Would those demands for materials have diminished aftr 5 years?  Likely, but if Oscorp could profit year after year by lobbing for the stores to be replenished and selling them to the government....

Could the governments have set rules for what would happen to pssessions (legally speaking, not practically speaking of taking possession) should there be a return?  Yes.  In fact, there would likely have been a lot of demand for that to be clear.  If Bob 'inherited' his parents house when his parents disappeared, and Bob wanted to sell it, the buyers would want to know that the house was not going to be taken away from them should Bob's parents return.  Or, alternatively, if they knew it would, they'd want to know how they'd be compensated.  All of the auditing companies would certainly have pushed for these rules.  Maybe there was a cottage "Return Insurance" industry. 

What about politican positions of power?  They likely set rules, although 5 years is long enough that most elected people likely lost their position.  But who knows what rules they'd set.  But if the Republican President and Republican Vice President disappeared and the Democratic Speaker of the House stepped into power, I'm assuming the Republican party would have wanted near immediate clarificaion on what would happen should their President return before his term was up.  I'm assuming that non-elected positions will be addressed in the next Black Panther, at least for Wakanda.

Jobs?  We currently have a lot of laws that require employers to allow employees to return to their job after military service and medical absences.  Maybe they'd have similar rules in place for this situation - or maybe not.  However, people that believed in/hoped for a return would have wanted there to be clarity. Also, politicans running for office would have seen a huge opening to get votes from those that lost people by supporting bills for guarateed return jobs...

I can just hear some of you asking, "But what about all the companies that disappeared or can't finance that many jobs or ..." I'm not claiming there would be perfect preparations.  I'm not claiming everything would be anticipated.  I'm not claiming that the world would be remotely capable of just carrying on a week after the return.... I'm saying it it idiotic to assume that there are no preparations.  There would have been a huge demand for such preparations.

Ugly?  Yes.  Full of fighting? Sure.  But the idea that the entire world looked at the absence of half of the population and took no preparations... kind of idiotic.  It assumes that essentially everyone with any influence just wrote off everyone that was gone and had absolute belief they could not return. 

We'll have to see what happens in the next several movies - and perhaps the next few seasons of TV shows once they address the events.

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Raguel
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Reply #184 on: June 02, 2019, 09:25:22 PM

I'm not reading any of that because it would take longer than the time shown in the movies that anyone outside of the Avengers sphere did in preparing for people to return.  why so serious? They don't know they are in a comic book movie lol.
BobtheSomething
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Reply #185 on: June 03, 2019, 12:09:50 AM

My head canon is that Stark Industries had an arc reactor and nanofactory set on "make protein bars" from the moment Stark figured out time travel.  Ikoye handled the distribution.
Ironwood
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Reply #186 on: June 03, 2019, 12:44:12 PM

I'm not reading any of that because it would take longer than the time shown in the movies that anyone outside of the Avengers sphere did in preparing for people to return.  why so serious? They don't know they are in a comic book movie lol.

Sugden gotta Sug.

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jgsugden
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Reply #187 on: June 03, 2019, 03:00:45 PM

We'll see in a month or so whether SM:FFH ignores the 5 years, dismisses it in a line or two, discusses it throughout as meaningless background noise/exposition, or whether it informs the storyline(s) meaningfully. 

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eldaec
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Reply #188 on: June 03, 2019, 05:49:08 PM

Ignore it is exactly what that film should do.

Concentrate on the damn film in front of them.

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schild
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Reply #189 on: June 04, 2019, 09:01:11 PM

ALRIGHT ENDGAME

My big huge complaints:
I hate that Gamora came back even if they went back further than her sacrifice. I figured she'd be removed from the timeline.  A soul for a soul.
I hate how much time was spent on the Captain America Old Guy shit. I HATED HATED HATED that he left with a hammer and came back with a shield at the end (which means he returned the hammer but stole the fucking shield).
I hate that Groot had like 3 minutes of screen time. Total.
I *******HATED******* FAT THOR. Maybe the dumbest shit in any of the MCU movies.
I disliked the Nebula stuff. I mean, it was fine for the story, but I just don't care about the character that much. Surely we could've had some other way to do it.
I hated that Tony called himself Howard instead of Tony. If he called himself Tony, it would've been a GREAT nod to Back to the Future, thus making the entire Ant Man plan amazing. Missed opportunity that felt like a kick in the dick.
I hated that Potato Cannon Kid was focused on just long enough to make me think Letitia Wright won't be Iron Man.

Big The Opposite of Complaints

Using Quills dancing and soundtrack in the cave was absolutely fantastic.
Ant Man was standout in this movie. Just excellent.
I liked the immediate and gratifying eath of Thanos at the beginning.
I liked Captain Marvel even though she's still way too powerful for this movie even though she got punched out with a stone.
I liked the headfake on a second Thanos snap even though it was hilariously telegraphed.
I'm glad we finally got to see Instant Kill mode but I would have liked to see it in the first suit, not the mk III or whatever.
I'm glad they kept Friday even though they had ample opportunity for Tony to download Jarvis at Stark Tower in 2014 or whatever.
I'm glad they treated it like a Greatest Hits album despite the fact it made the movie drag about 45 minutes too long.

In general, I liked the movie, it was as popcorny as popcorn can be. But boy, the investment to get here was just massive.

Side note: Guy 2 seats from me (along with his wife) started fucking BAWLING when Tony died and cried all the the funeral while eating. Eating while crying. For like 25 minutes. Any emotional response I could've had was destroyed by this dork.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2019, 09:04:49 PM by schild »
schild
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Reply #190 on: June 04, 2019, 09:04:00 PM

oh professor hulk is cute but a little Gremlins two-y.

OH and not showing Cap confronting Red Skull at least in a stinger was some fuckin bullshit. Should've traded the stone back for Black Widow.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2019, 09:05:55 PM by schild »
Samwise
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Reply #191 on: June 04, 2019, 11:31:29 PM

oh professor hulk is cute but a little Gremlins two-y.

HAAAAAAAA

I couldn't put my finger on what he reminded me of.  Thank you.

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schild
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Reply #192 on: June 04, 2019, 11:33:38 PM

oh professor hulk is cute but a little Gremlins two-y.

HAAAAAAAA

I couldn't put my finger on what he reminded me of.  Thank you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHtH_SHhc6E
HaemishM
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Reply #193 on: June 05, 2019, 09:29:55 AM

I had forgotten that skit too. "You just like a child, you have the brain of a child. You do not have a high IQ..."

RhyssaFireheart
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Reply #194 on: June 17, 2019, 08:35:27 AM

So I finally, finally got to see this over the weekend.  Yay for vacation and the husband not having some flavor or medical emergency for once.  Enjoyed the ending thoroughly although I really do wish I'd seen both Ant-Man movies and Captain Marvel first.  Ah well, it's not like either was required although the AM ones might have been.

Riggswolfe
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Reply #195 on: June 17, 2019, 11:40:42 AM

So I finally, finally got to see this over the weekend.  Yay for vacation and the husband not having some flavor or medical emergency for once.  Enjoyed the ending thoroughly although I really do wish I'd seen both Ant-Man movies and Captain Marvel first.  Ah well, it's not like either was required although the AM ones might have been.

The 2nd Antman movie sets up some of the plot points in this one towards the end. Neither the firsr one or Captain Marvel are necessary. I was actually a little surprised how pointless she is in the movie. They sort of played it up like she was going to kick Thanos ass and she didn't. I think it's good she didn't, the old guard needed their last hurrah but it did feel like she was sort of wasted.

"We live in a country, where John Lennon takes six bullets in the chest, Yoko Ono was standing right next to him and not one fucking bullet! Explain that to me! Explain that to me, God! Explain it to me, God!" - Denis Leary summing up my feelings about the nature of the universe.
Threash
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Reply #196 on: June 17, 2019, 11:45:45 AM

The one that did kick Thanos ass was Scarlet Witch, lucky for him she's the MCU definition of a glass cannon.

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Velorath
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Reply #197 on: June 17, 2019, 12:31:54 PM

So I finally, finally got to see this over the weekend.  Yay for vacation and the husband not having some flavor or medical emergency for once.  Enjoyed the ending thoroughly although I really do wish I'd seen both Ant-Man movies and Captain Marvel first.  Ah well, it's not like either was required although the AM ones might have been.

The 2nd Antman movie sets up some of the plot points in this one towards the end. Neither the firsr one or Captain Marvel are necessary. I was actually a little surprised how pointless she is in the movie. They sort of played it up like she was going to kick Thanos ass and she didn't. I think it's good she didn't, the old guard needed their last hurrah but it did feel like she was sort of wasted.

My understanding is that the Endgame Captain Marvel stuff had been filmed before they filmed the Captain Marvel movie, so it was probably a matter of not having time because she had a whole movie to film, and Larson not really having had time to grow into the role yet.  Also since Captain Marvel was still in theaters when Endgame released it was probably also a matter of assuming that a not-insignificant portion of Endgame's audience hadn't seen it yet, so it might be best not to make the character too important.
eldaec
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Reply #198 on: June 17, 2019, 04:32:00 PM

Much more likely the endgame writers just hadn't seen a Captain Marvel script.

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"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
Threash
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Reply #199 on: June 19, 2019, 09:21:27 AM


I am the .00000001428%
Velorath
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Reply #200 on: June 20, 2019, 02:07:30 AM


Sure although I don't see it bringing in a pile of extra money at this point, especially with theaters clearing up room for Disney's next big release this weekend with Toy Story 4, and then the next MCU movie a week and a half from now. Also Disney owns Avatar now anyway and I'm sure whenever Cameron gets around to finishing Avatars 2 through 17 or however many he ends up making, they'll probably re-release the original also.
Riggswolfe
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Reply #201 on: June 21, 2019, 11:59:28 AM

The one that did kick Thanos ass was Scarlet Witch, lucky for him she's the MCU definition of a glass cannon.

Well, I mean he did call down weapons fire from his ship to save himself. I seriously think if he hadn't she'd have ended it all right then and there and Tony Stark would have lived.

"We live in a country, where John Lennon takes six bullets in the chest, Yoko Ono was standing right next to him and not one fucking bullet! Explain that to me! Explain that to me, God! Explain it to me, God!" - Denis Leary summing up my feelings about the nature of the universe.
Threash
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Reply #202 on: June 21, 2019, 01:12:22 PM

Yeah, thats why i said she was a glass cannon, she deals the most damage but can't really take any.

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Soulflame
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Reply #203 on: June 21, 2019, 04:43:31 PM

She took a punch from Thanos with barely a flinch.  It was only when Thanos punched her again, while holding the Power Stone, that she went down.

He didn't bother with that for any of the other fights.

I don't get how she can be considered a glass cannon.
Trippy
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Reply #204 on: June 21, 2019, 04:46:52 PM

He’s talking about Scarlet Witch not Captain Marvel.
Soulflame
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Reply #205 on: June 21, 2019, 05:42:41 PM

Ah.  Well.  That makes more sense.
Ard
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Reply #206 on: June 21, 2019, 11:31:11 PM

I also wouldn't even call the Scarlet Witch a glass cannon since he had to call down an orbital strike on her to stop her.
schild
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Reply #207 on: June 22, 2019, 11:21:38 PM

removed the spoiler tag, if you come into this thread now and haven't seen it

I.... don't care. It's barely even in theaters anymore.
Threash
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Reply #208 on: June 23, 2019, 07:53:44 AM

I didn't even know we were supposed to be using spoilers.

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schild
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Reply #209 on: June 23, 2019, 11:02:22 AM

We weren't. The entire thread was spoilered in the title.
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