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Author Topic: Avengers: Endgame  (Read 19490 times)
Khaldun
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Reply #140 on: May 16, 2019, 09:49:29 PM

The scores have been really generic, yeah. Even the Avengers movies have been pretty meh in that respect.
Father mike
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Reply #141 on: May 17, 2019, 10:43:04 AM

« Last Edit: May 17, 2019, 10:45:35 AM by Father mike »

I would like to thank Vladimir Putin for ensuring that every member of the NPR news staff has had to say "Pussy Riot" on the air multiple times.
Riggswolfe
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Reply #142 on: May 17, 2019, 01:24:47 PM


Have you watched any of the reaction videos to that? Some of them have interesting points about some of what he says there.

"We live in a country, where John Lennon takes six bullets in the chest, Yoko Ono was standing right next to him and not one fucking bullet! Explain that to me! Explain that to me, God! Explain it to me, God!" - Denis Leary summing up my feelings about the nature of the universe.
Father mike
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Reply #143 on: May 17, 2019, 07:47:15 PM

I really liked Dan Golding's response video.  His points about Zimmer and computerization were really good.  I linked the one I did because I liked the interviews with Danny Elfman and his point that directors are asking for music that sets a mood but isn't noticed.  But I guess that could be laid at the feet of 20 years of Zimmer scores ...

Didn't mean to derail the thread. Just thought it was an interesting note.

I would like to thank Vladimir Putin for ensuring that every member of the NPR news staff has had to say "Pussy Riot" on the air multiple times.
WayAbvPar
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Reply #144 on: May 18, 2019, 10:19:57 AM

They could have screwed that up a lot of different ways and pulled it off.  Will have much more to say later. Also, yay I have a character I can cos-play now.

My daughter was quite happy to point out that Thor looked like me  Rofl Waffle

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Threash
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Reply #145 on: May 18, 2019, 01:39:26 PM

I'd have an easier time getting Cap's body than Thor's beard sadly.

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Khaldun
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Reply #146 on: May 18, 2019, 07:00:42 PM

Wait, sadly? America's ass beats ZZ Top's beard, dude.
Khaldun
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Reply #147 on: May 18, 2019, 07:08:10 PM


That's a fantastic video. Incredibly explanatory and smart and interesting.
Ironwood
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Reply #148 on: May 19, 2019, 05:06:53 PM

Yeah, except it starts from a premise of unfairness and, to my mind, an incorrect one.

To wit, I could hum 3 of the Marvel tunes easily (Avengers, Iron Man and Cap) and I think the idea of comparing it to the fucking Star Wars theme (Hear at least once every year for the past 3-4 decades) to be a little bit of a wanky point.

But hey ho, it's not wrong when it actually says what it attempts to say.

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Threash
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Reply #149 on: May 19, 2019, 05:41:39 PM

Not even the new Star Wars movies have managed to come up with something that competes with their old soundtrack, and it's the same guy.

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pxib
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Reply #150 on: May 19, 2019, 05:51:04 PM

Duel of the Fates was pretty great.

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Khaldun
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Reply #151 on: May 19, 2019, 10:23:32 PM

Rey's Theme in the new ones is pretty memorable. I know it when I hear it.

For the MCU movies, the only thing I know when I hear it is the baseline Avengers theme. The rest of it is forgettable--it takes me a while to remember whether I'm hearing something from another movie or what.
Cyrrex
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Reply #152 on: May 20, 2019, 12:32:49 AM

Duel of the Fates was fantastic, and actually much of the score of the prequels was outstanding.

The new trilogy?  Absolutely nothing that sticks out to me.  I don't even know what Rey's Theme is.

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Velorath
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Reply #153 on: May 20, 2019, 12:50:22 AM

I couldn't pick Rey's Theme out of a lineup. I couldn't have even told you that she had a theme.
Abagadro
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Reply #154 on: May 20, 2019, 01:23:15 AM

A bit unfair to compare shit to one the top 10 greatest scores of the last half century (by a guy who has 4 of the other 9).

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Cyrrex
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Reply #155 on: May 20, 2019, 01:52:35 AM

That's true for two reasons at least....one, because it is an unfair comparison.  Two, not all movies need a memorable score.  I expect (daresay require) it in a SW movie.  In an avengers movie it just needs to hold shit together.  I have no idea why this is so.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Velorath
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Reply #156 on: May 20, 2019, 02:20:32 AM

A bit unfair to compare shit to one the top 10 greatest scores of the last half century (by a guy who has 4 of the other 9).

Williams has indeed done a lot of great work although I think Morricone is still the high water mark.
Threash
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Reply #157 on: May 20, 2019, 07:40:10 AM

Duel of the Fates was pretty great.

Those are not the new Star Wars movies :)

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Hoax
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Reply #158 on: May 20, 2019, 06:25:23 PM

I feel terrible for anyone who didn't see that in imax, it still felt like the camera needed to pan out more at times to pick up everything. I enjoyed it, felt good, made the years of investment feel good. Bravo.

No idea where it goes from there. They've got a large stable to pick from to make a new Avengers: War Machine, Bucky, Falcon, Ant-Man, Wasp, Scarlet Witch, (Nu)Hawkeye, Black Panther & Spider Man. That's solid. Those are all genuine Avengers from comics. Many have shown they can carry a solo movie as well.

How amazing what comes next will be will hinge a lot on this new Spider Man. I have loved the Spider Man character as much as any this go around (I think young Parker is the way to go) and he also has a great chance to be the most truly MCU version of a character imo with how he's taking Stark's death, wearing Stark's armor, dealing with Fury etc. The trailer made it clear that they will attempt to bring us up to speed on what the snap means for the whole universe in his film and sort of layout how the heroes are dealing with the world going forward. There were two crucial lines in the trailer to me where he asks Fury why they can't call anyone else and points out that what the world needs is a new iron man. Those landed for me and I for sure can't wait to see that movie.

I was most shocked that they would kill of Widow when I thought she was getting a solo film. Will make that a very interesting project if it does/still exists.

The Bad is mainly timetravel, its a shitshow and you always feel better about stories that never touch it not collapsing on themselves. For you guys' gripes outside of time travel I thought they did amazing job with Captain Marvel, the power level was probably exactly what they were going for. She has the most power of any MCU hero on average (IM, Thor, Strange etc could spike to crazy powerful but she's just always OPOP) but it didn't feel oppressive or ruin the stakes and she got her ass handed to her but in a way that 1) setup the win and 2) let her have one really good moment. I remember it as Thanos using the headbutt he had used on someone else previously in the fight and her taking it without flinching. I may be misremembering the details of that.

Much better for it to end with all that than to go on with actors who don't want to be there or writers who are out of ideas or surprises or have been written into a corner they can't get out of. I'll miss them and super hero movies may not be this big ever again in my lifetime but it was a helluva ride.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2019, 06:28:46 PM by Hoax »

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Trippy
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Reply #159 on: May 20, 2019, 07:03:25 PM

I was most shocked that they would kill of Widow when I thought she was getting a solo film. Will make that a very interesting project if it does/still exists.
She is getting a solo movie, though it technically still hasn't been officially announced yet, and it will obviously be taking place before Endgame. How far back it is still unknown though the latest rumor has it taking place right after Civil War.

Edit: is
« Last Edit: May 20, 2019, 08:38:41 PM by Trippy »
Hoax
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Reply #160 on: May 20, 2019, 08:07:03 PM

I was most shocked that they would kill of Widow when I thought she was getting a solo film. Will make that a very interesting project if it does/still exists.
She is getting a solo movie, though it technically still hasn't been officially announced yet, and it will obviously be taking place before Endgame. How far back it still unknown though the latest rumor has it taking place right after Civil War.

Seems sad. Finally gets the solo movie they could have made ages ago, its now rendered seemingly pointless. It will probably be better than Solo because Marvel tends to make much better movies than Star Wars these days but its going to have the same sort of "no I didn't really need this backstory" issues.

A nation consists of its laws. A nation does not consist of its situation at a given time. If an individual's morals are situational, then that individual is without morals. If a nation's laws are situational, that nation has no laws, and soon isn't a nation.
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eldaec
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Reply #161 on: May 21, 2019, 01:11:05 AM

Both Endgame and IW are amazing because of the difficulty involved in doing all the things they did in a coherent (mostly) narrative with as many actors and characters as they did. It should get a lot of credit just on degree of difficulty.

This is fair - but is also why I'm not really bothered about seeing them in theatres any more.

The avengers movies are way better than they deserve to be given how mediocre the massive crossover comics usually are. But not sure they are actually good in their own right.

(have yet to see Endgame)

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jgsugden
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Reply #162 on: May 21, 2019, 02:39:49 PM

I was most shocked that they would kill of Widow when I thought she was getting a solo film. Will make that a very interesting project if it does/still exists.
She is getting a solo movie, though it technically still hasn't been officially announced yet, and it will obviously be taking place before Endgame. How far back it still unknown though the latest rumor has it taking place right after Civil War.
Seems sad. Finally gets the solo movie they could have made ages ago, its now rendered seemingly pointless. It will probably be better than Solo because Marvel tends to make much better movies than Star Wars these days but its going to have the same sort of "no I didn't really need this backstory" issues.
It seems likely that they'll give the movie some current era stakes that will impact the world after her death.  While I do not think this is the route they would take, an example would be Hakweye doing something in the present that requires him to unearth something about Black Widow from before they worked together, so that the movie is 20% present Hawkeye story and 80% flashback looking at what he uncovers.

2020 will be the year I gave up all hope.
eldaec
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Reply #163 on: May 21, 2019, 04:51:20 PM

Black Widow would anyway benefit from winding the clock back to before she was famous.

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Cyrrex
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Reply #164 on: May 22, 2019, 07:03:13 AM

If they could somehow also rollback Scarlett to her younger self, well, I'd be in favor of that.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
eldaec
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Reply #165 on: May 22, 2019, 10:26:17 AM

You're veering awful close to a complaint about knee sharpness there.

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lamaros
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Reply #166 on: May 22, 2019, 05:23:49 PM

You're veering awful close to a complaint about knee sharpness there.

Nm.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2019, 05:38:07 PM by lamaros »

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Cyrrex
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Reply #167 on: May 23, 2019, 12:38:37 AM

I would take any version of SJ I could get.  The remark more reflects my opinion that younger Scarlett was perhaps the most beautiful creature that ever was.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
lamaros
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Reply #168 on: May 23, 2019, 05:50:47 AM

You're not making it better.

Expect poison from the standing water.
Cyrrex
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Reply #169 on: May 23, 2019, 06:11:30 AM

I don't care?

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
jgsugden
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Reply #170 on: May 30, 2019, 06:55:21 PM

I keep seeing people talking about the 5 years missing and how society could not handle the return.  Most of these conversations assume that there is no preparation for a return.  That seems short sighted.

The Avengers (at least some of them) were operating as a cohesive council of heroes during this time.  They were looking for a way to undo the damage.  Wouldn't they have made it cear it was something being sought - and might someday happen?  Wouldn't that force people to consider and make decisions about planning for a return?  If your spouse disappeared and you married someone new, don't you think the conversation about, "What if there is a return?" is something they'd think to have?

Obviously, there would be scheming, people hoping a return never happens, people that might want it but can't believe it will happen, etc...  So they should have had preparations for it, although those preparations might wane after 5 years... They also might be insufficiency when faced with the 'reality' of the situation.  But something.

If they do not deal with it in S-M:FFH, I'll be disappointed.  However, it just gets me that all of these blogs and articles do not account for it.

I also ponder - Why 5 years?  Why not 1 year (as had passed in the real world)?  Or 6 months?  Just so that Tony and Pepper's kid was old enough to speak in scenes?  Or did they think this through and decide that all of this chaos was interesting and that they want to address it in the next few movies.  After all - if it is now 2023 in the MCU, won't they need to 'slow down' so that the movies shown over a couple years all take place int he same MCU year to give the real world time to catch up?  Maybe the next 3 years of movies all take place over a short period of time, like the first movies mostly all took place within a week.

2020 will be the year I gave up all hope.
Raguel
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Reply #171 on: May 30, 2019, 07:08:17 PM

Maybe it's 5 years to squeeze in 2 BW movies?  why so serious? why so serious?

I don't get the feeling the Avengers notified anyone outside their circle (which obviously includes the state of Wakanda through Okoye and maybe alien worlds through CM and Rocket) but who knows really. At any rate it doesn't seem like much time passed between Lang coming back from the quantum realm and the Avengers going back in time. No way any nation is ready for ~50% increase in population practically overnight anymore than they would be prepared for the snap.
Threash
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Reply #172 on: May 30, 2019, 09:42:39 PM


I also ponder - Why 5 years?  Why not 1 year (as had passed in the real world)?  Or 6 months?  Just so that Tony and Pepper's kid was old enough to speak in scenes? 

Part this and part aging up Ant-Mans daughter.

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Teleku
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Reply #173 on: May 31, 2019, 12:57:11 AM

I keep seeing people talking about the 5 years missing and how society could not handle the return.  Most of these conversations assume that there is no preparation for a return.  That seems short sighted.

The Avengers (at least some of them) were operating as a cohesive council of heroes during this time.  They were looking for a way to undo the damage.  Wouldn't they have made it cear it was something being sought - and might someday happen?  Wouldn't that force people to consider and make decisions about planning for a return?  If your spouse disappeared and you married someone new, don't you think the conversation about, "What if there is a return?" is something they'd think to have?

Obviously, there would be scheming, people hoping a return never happens, people that might want it but can't believe it will happen, etc...  So they should have had preparations for it, although those preparations might wane after 5 years... They also might be insufficiency when faced with the 'reality' of the situation.  But something.
Dude, the 5 year jump literally starts with Captain America at a group therapy session talking about the need to let go of everybody who left.  Everybody had given up.  Not sure why anybody would plan for people suddenly returning when everybody had zero indication that was a thing even possible.  The avengers had given up after Thanos destroyed the stones, and were spending every second they had just trying to hold the world together.  It's just a silly/bad plot hole.

I also ponder - Why 5 years?  Why not 1 year (as had passed in the real world)?  Or 6 months?  Just so that Tony and Pepper's kid was old enough to speak in scenes?  

Part this and part aging up Ant-Mans daughter.
I don't know, I see it in reverse.  I think they wrote him having a daughter into the story line just to give a silly excuse to force a 5 year time jump.  He has a daughter now, so he demands that if they get the stones they just bring back everybody who was dusted and nothing else, because then his daughter wouldn't exist (which is kind of selfish considering the millions who have died in the aftermath of the snap).  Because otherwise they would have just happily snapped the world back into existence as before Thanos went a killing.  Could have brought Loki and others back, and nothing would have changed.  Which is what I expected them to do.  Instead they decided they wanted all the previous deaths to 'count', so they created the daughter as a plot device to force a 5 year jump and make them use the stones in a very limited fashion.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2019, 12:59:20 AM by Teleku »

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Khaldun
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Reply #174 on: May 31, 2019, 11:42:41 AM

I think that's pretty much right--if you don't limit what they can fix, then why not fix everything. There's probably other MacGuffinish ways to create those limits--magico-babble about the stones, whatever. But it isn't just trying to force the 'fix' into a very precise space that preserves the damage that Thanos caused at the outset because of its emotional impact, it's also to briefly raise the emotional stakes--that for every ten people who are still profoundly wounded by what Thanos did, there's one person who accidentally or incidentally benefitted from it. Nebula is better off, Hulk is better off, Tony is better off. If it weren't for Clint Barton, it kind of looks like the gangsters are better off. The whales are better off.

The problem is that this should be a never-ending story engine for the MCU--imagine the people who found a better marriage or a better working life etc. or who lost abusive family members or terrible bosses etc. trying to deal with the return of a bad situation even though almost everybody else is ecstatic or overjoyed. Imagine what people who want to restore the old order would have to face. I think MCU Earth might take climate change more seriously, plus MCU Earth is now overwhelmingly and incontrovertibly aware that there's a larger universe full of aliens and magic AND that some basically mortal being briefly had a power that the world's religions would have previously claimed was the province only of God/Allah/the Absolute.

And I think none of us really think they're going to do anything remotely like that. I would be very excited if they did--it would be genuinely interesting. But they're not.
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