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Author Topic: Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi  (Read 4128 times)
Shannow
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on: January 23, 2017, 10:52:49 AM

Cause we have a title now. Let the countdown to the countdown to the teaser of the trailer teaser begin.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2017, 11:08:07 AM by Shannow »

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calapine
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Reply #1 on: January 23, 2017, 11:00:59 AM


Restoration is a perfectly valid school of magic!
HaemishM
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Reply #2 on: January 23, 2017, 11:51:14 AM

But... who IS the last Jedi?  why so serious?

01101010
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Reply #3 on: January 23, 2017, 11:52:20 AM

But... who IS the last Jedi?  why so serious?

Jar-Jar.

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Reply #4 on: January 23, 2017, 12:05:54 PM

So like, I guess Luke is probably going to die at the end this time?

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Reply #5 on: January 23, 2017, 12:30:07 PM

Jedi can be plural.

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01101010
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Reply #6 on: January 23, 2017, 01:32:11 PM

So like, I guess Luke is probably going to die at the end this time?

At this point, are there really any Jedi left? Luke was the last trained Jedi and even that was not full training. So did he have enough training to actually be capable of training a padawan? Or is Jedi sorta fluid in how it works... more like guidelines than rules? The lore I know only comes from the movies, so that is where I am coming at this.

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Reply #7 on: January 23, 2017, 01:48:39 PM

In RoTJ, it was clear that there was only a single Jedi left (Luke), and that he didn't even really complete his training. Obi-wan and Yoda were the only fully trained Jedi who survived the Clone Wars (not counting Anakin, because Vader), and they were blue glowies.

Maybe they're going to have Luke die, then unveil New Jedi(tm). The new training process can be called NGE, and it'll be a smashing success bringing tons of new padawans into the Order.
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Reply #8 on: January 23, 2017, 02:06:04 PM

I'm hoping that by "Last Jedi" they mean the last of an antiquated, outdated order that became completely ossified and worthless before it was mostly wiped out by a Dark-side user with a grudge.  Speaking of which, it seemed to be an order that regularly spawned individuals who rejected the order's principles so hard, they went full Dark-side and generally fucked things up on a galactic scale.  Even when there were only two left, one of them felt that for the other to graduate from student status, he must confront one of the most powerful Dark-side users in the galaxy.

Hopefully, with the last of the Jedi, the good folk of the galaxy might have a chance to form a healthier relationship with the light side of the Force.

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01101010
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Reply #9 on: January 23, 2017, 02:14:22 PM

In RoTJ, it was clear that there was only a single Jedi left (Luke), and that he didn't even really complete his training. Obi-wan and Yoda were the only fully trained Jedi who survived the Clone Wars (not counting Anakin, because Vader), and they were blue glowies.

Maybe they're going to have Luke die, then unveil New Jedi(tm). The new training process can be called NGE, and it'll be a smashing success bringing tons of new padawans into the Order.

I.... see what you did there.  awesome, for real

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Reg
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Reply #10 on: January 23, 2017, 03:06:00 PM

Why can't the blue glowies finish Luke's training or even train some Padawans?
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Reply #11 on: January 23, 2017, 03:10:47 PM

They can. Blue Glowies staying around to teach and Holocrons are canon now based on Rebels. Luke completed his training after defeating Vader, but fighting Vader was his trial which let him become a "Jedi Knight" as Yoda said in ROTJ.

Last of the Jedi is probably plural. If not it implies a big focus on Luke who IS the last of the Jedi and that's not where they're taking the franchise. It'll be Luke/ Rey and possibly others. Kylo is the head of an Order, the Knights of Ren, who are Dark-Side users but not, apparently, Sith. Because there are only ever Two Sith and Snoke was around to witness Palpatine's rise and fall. (Also canon according to the novels)  Unless Luke and Rey are going to take on the Knights and Snoke by themselves, I anticipate more Jedi showing up.

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Reply #12 on: January 23, 2017, 04:44:14 PM

Reminder that Kanan is still around from Rebels.

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Reply #13 on: January 23, 2017, 05:46:53 PM

I have a sneaking suspicion that this simply means that Force wielders on both sides are giving up on forming galactic-scale organizations, which might be for the best anyway.
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Reply #14 on: January 23, 2017, 10:53:01 PM

I'm hoping that by "Last Jedi" they mean the last of an antiquated, outdated order that became completely ossified and worthless before it was mostly wiped out by a Dark-side user with a grudge.  Speaking of which, it seemed to be an order that regularly spawned individuals who rejected the order's principles so hard, they went full Dark-side and generally fucked things up on a galactic scale.  Even when there were only two left, one of them felt that for the other to graduate from student status, he must confront one of the most powerful Dark-side users in the galaxy.

Hopefully, with the last of the Jedi, the good folk of the galaxy might have a chance to form a healthier relationship with the light side of the Force.

This... The first Jedi didn't have formal training, they purely explored and channeled the force as they went along and passed on the knowledge.  I doubt their intention was to create a bureaucratic and stagnant order.
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Reply #15 on: January 24, 2017, 12:18:54 AM

I'm hoping that by "Last Jedi" they mean the last of an antiquated, outdated order that became completely ossified and worthless before it was mostly wiped out by a Dark-side user with a grudge.
This... The first Jedi didn't have formal training, they purely explored and channeled the force as they went along and passed on the knowledge.  I doubt their intention was to create a bureaucratic and stagnant order.

That seems really unlikely, given that the Jedi have generally been portrayed in the most positive light possible in the movies.  It would be like trying to do a Star Trek movie that establishes that really, the Federation was a bunch of intolerant fascist zealots so they are overthrown and immediately replaced with the Schmederation, a new government which ACTUALLY upholds the ideals that the Federation claimed to value.  I mean, you could do it, I guess, but what would be the point?

And if they DID decide to replace the idea of Jedi with something else, it wouldn't lead to some era of galactic enlightenment and peace.  See: the name of this franchise.  They can't do a movie where people just sit around and talk about how great things are now and then the credits roll.
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Reply #16 on: January 24, 2017, 07:39:59 AM

Does the Jedi Order even exist anymore? I guess Luke tried to restart it but his nephew went dark and that seemed to be the end of that.
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Reply #17 on: January 24, 2017, 08:41:14 AM

We don't really know what happened with Luke and Ren. I'm thinking that Luke has removed himself from the universe because he realizes that the Jedi are too powerful a force to be acting on the galaxy, what with just two of them destroying the system of galactic government and causing a giant fucking war. Rey will likely have to convince him to come out of retirement to unfuck the damage caused by people trying to emulate his father.

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Reply #18 on: January 24, 2017, 09:25:01 AM

I don't think Lucas meant to do this, but the prequels really don't portray the Jedi in the most positive light, actually. They're inflexible, arrogant, kind of stupid. They stick to an anti-emotion creed to the point that they can't sense some of the most basic feelings motivating galactic society. They are easily manipulated into becoming soldiers in a dumb, fake war that's intended to weaken the Republic. They have don't actually stick to the ascetic attitude they pretend to have. Since the Clone Wars TV series is now canon, whether Lucas meant it or not, the canon itself has gone on to underscore this portrayal--that the Jedi were rigid, remote, abstract in their understanding of right and wrong. Good in a fight but kind of lousy in everything else.

Maybe warrior monks are better off when they have lots of different philosophies and orders rather than two manichean megachurches. I really hope that's where the overall story of the Force in the saga is going--it would make the prophecy of Luke/Anakin bringing "balance" to the Force more meaningful. (One wonders why the Jedi around the time of The Phantom Menace found a prophecy of a "rebalancing" of the Force at all hopeful or interesting, considering that as far as they knew, there were no dark side wielders of note in the galaxy, the Jedi were totally in control, and all was well. Perhaps they were more aware of the stagnant character of the Jedi Order than they cared to admit.)
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Reply #19 on: January 24, 2017, 09:36:11 AM

Palpatine was just so strong with the force he was clouding everything, or something.

If you ask a 10 year old what they loved about Jedi in the original star wars and what they wanted to see more of, I'm almost 100% sure they say long periods of stilted dialog about space politics that don't ultimately matter.
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Reply #20 on: January 24, 2017, 10:26:45 AM

Bringing balance to the Force just meant killing down all the Jedi to balance out the two Sith. Prophecy fulfilled: 2 Sith, 2 Jedi.

If Luke brings about the New Jedi Order, he throws it off kilter again, depending on how the Knights of Ren shakes out. Would be nice to see Kylo mature and turn that into a modern Sith Academy kinda thing. Remember how whiny and emo Luke was in ANH?

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Reply #21 on: January 24, 2017, 12:11:28 PM

Maybe warrior monks are better off when they have lots of different philosophies and orders rather than two manichean megachurches. I really hope that's where the overall story of the Force in the saga is going

The Donnie Yen character in Rogue One, as a Force-wielding mystic who is not in any way connected to the Jedi Order, lends some support to that. 

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Reply #22 on: January 24, 2017, 12:56:57 PM

I would bet Finn goes in that kind of direction too since he seems to have (light side) force sensitivity (his intuitive positive morality and also less subtlety fighting decently well with Luke's lightsaber, twice)  but probably isn't going to join Rey at Jedi school so I am guessing in whatever he ends up doing he taps into that some more.
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Reply #23 on: January 24, 2017, 01:01:27 PM

Which of these theories will give us the most toys?

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Reply #24 on: January 24, 2017, 01:21:20 PM

Which of these theories will give us the most toys?
dude it's all about the Anovos Knights of Ren full battle armor

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Reply #25 on: January 24, 2017, 01:53:36 PM

Bringing balance to the Force just meant killing down all the Jedi to balance out the two Sith. Prophecy fulfilled: 2 Sith, 2 Jedi.

If Luke brings about the New Jedi Order, he throws it off kilter again, depending on how the Knights of Ren shakes out. Would be nice to see Kylo mature and turn that into a modern Sith Academy kinda thing. Remember how whiny and emo Luke was in ANH?

You're probably just being snarky (and nothing wrong with that) but I'll be the guy that brings up the fact that Lucas never meant "balance" in the Force to mean equal numbers between the Light Side and Dark Side. A balanced Force was the good Force -- the Light Side. Unbalanced Force was the Dark Side.

Now Lucas takes a lot of crap, but I think this was the best interpretation -- balance was an ethical judgement, not some autistic overconcern with numbers.
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Reply #26 on: January 24, 2017, 02:11:12 PM

I have no idea what Lucas meant, but the idea that were literally a total of 2 sith at any point in time always seemed idiotic to me.

The one line of canon dialog that supports it would be interpreted by any sane person as "Sith come in pairs".

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Reply #27 on: January 24, 2017, 03:07:22 PM

Said it before and I'll say it again.  Rey trains with Luke, ends up fighting Ren and ultimately killing him(maybe because Ren kills Luke) and going darkside.  Finn becomes a Jedi and at the end redeems Rey.

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Reply #28 on: January 24, 2017, 03:13:49 PM

Said it before and I'll say it again.  Rey trains with Luke, ends up fighting Ren and ultimately killing him(maybe because Ren kills Luke) and going darkside.  Finn becomes a Jedi and at the end redeems Rey.

I think this is highly likely, but it'd be fine if we didn't do another jedi turns darkside and then gets redeemed story too.
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Reply #29 on: January 24, 2017, 03:25:20 PM

Or how about Kylo Ren and Rey are (half?) brother and sister? awesome, for real

Has to be some sort of familial reveal for a proper Star Wars retelling.
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Reply #30 on: January 24, 2017, 03:37:02 PM

Or how about Kylo Ren and Rey are (half?) brother and sister? awesome, for real

Has to be some sort of familial reveal for a proper Star Wars retelling.


I got the impression that Rey was Luke's daughter, making Ren her cousin.

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Reply #31 on: January 24, 2017, 05:17:59 PM

Bringing balance to the Force just meant killing down all the Jedi to balance out the two Sith. Prophecy fulfilled: 2 Sith, 2 Jedi.

If Luke brings about the New Jedi Order, he throws it off kilter again, depending on how the Knights of Ren shakes out. Would be nice to see Kylo mature and turn that into a modern Sith Academy kinda thing. Remember how whiny and emo Luke was in ANH?

You're probably just being snarky (and nothing wrong with that) but I'll be the guy that brings up the fact that Lucas never meant "balance" in the Force to mean equal numbers between the Light Side and Dark Side. A balanced Force was the good Force -- the Light Side. Unbalanced Force was the Dark Side.

Now Lucas takes a lot of crap, but I think this was the best interpretation -- balance was an ethical judgement, not some autistic overconcern with numbers.

Yeah, in an interview Lucas describes the Dark side as a cancer on the Force and says the Chosen One is meant to remove that cancer, thus "restoring balance." I think it helps with his thinking on this if you look at Jedi and the "light side" as just "the Force" and not "the Light side". Properly used it is more or less neutral.

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Reply #32 on: January 24, 2017, 09:26:55 PM

I don't think Lucas meant to do this, but the prequels really don't portray the Jedi in the most positive light, actually. They're inflexible, arrogant, kind of stupid.

Compared to who?  The only Jedi we really hear a lot from in the movies are Windu, Yoda, and Obi-Wan, maybe Qui-Gon.  Windu thinks the government is kind of corrupt and untrustworthy, and he's right.  Yoda thinks training Anakin would be a disaster, and he's right.  Obi-Wan is practically the prototypical Wise Old Teacher character.  You have to do some serious reading between the lines to come up with the Jedi being stupid considering that they're pulling pretty hard on every "wise old monk" trope in the book.  And in some settings that might be justified, but Star Wars has generally been less about subtle innuendo and more about Good Guys versus Bad Guys, and the Jedi have generally been solidly in the "good guys" box for that.  If the only sin they've committed has been getting beaten then sure, I guess it proves they're not invincible, but I have a hard time putting too much blame on them for falling victim to whatever Palpatine's idiotic plan was since if he failed there would be no movie.

I don't know where you're getting this "the Jedi Council is stagnant" idea from since I don't think it's ever mentioned in the movies.  They're monks, not pop singers, nobody cares if they sing the same song for over a thousand generations.  And as for being out of touch, the Jedi NEED to be emotionally distant since when they're not, they commit some of the most horrifying atrocities the galaxy has seen.  When they get overwhelmed with negative emotions, they turn in to rage fueled killing machines, and when they get overwhelmed with positive emotions, Hayden Christiensen has to try to act.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2017, 09:29:10 PM by Kail »
eldaec
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Reply #33 on: January 25, 2017, 07:30:27 AM

Said it before and I'll say it again.  Rey trains with Luke, ends up fighting Ren and ultimately killing him(maybe because Ren kills Luke) and going darkside.  Finn becomes a Jedi and at the end redeems Rey.

I'm hoping it is at least "Finn does not become a Jedi and somehow redeems Rey".

People need to stop becoming Jedi all the damn time. Han Solo was cooler than Luke Skywalker. Xwings and TIE fighters are cooler than lightsabres.

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Sky
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Reply #34 on: January 25, 2017, 07:36:39 AM

in an interview Lucas
Lucas is a bloviated bullshitter and can't be trusted with his revisionist history of Star Wars canon.

No matter what happens, we're in a much better place with him marginalized. One thing the EU did many times over is explain the Force in a better way than that moron. SWTOR alone is a bajillion light years better at explaining the light and dark sides of the Force than anything Lucas 'masterminded'.

I've been reading a bunch of historical stuff (both some online articles friends link and the new McQuarrie book) and it really highlights just how completely full of shit Lucas was (and is to a much larger degree now).

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