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Author Topic: Marvel's Iron Fist  (Read 12298 times)
Cyrrex
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Reply #140 on: September 12, 2018, 02:49:41 AM

Well, Marvel does Black Widow okay, but that could be just because of, you know, Scarlett.  Hard to do that wrong.

But actually, you make a good point.  They do some really strong female characters.  And even better, they usually aren't white either.

Never, ever assume someone that short and fat has their shit together. - Schild
Ironwood
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Reply #141 on: September 12, 2018, 03:21:49 AM

I'm about half way - this is pretty good. Not amazing but good.

This show really makes me wonder why marvel TV can do women well and villians pretty well but the movies suck at both. Especially as the movies do most other things so much better.


Mostly focus and audience I think.  Also, the TV really, really takes the time to drag out characterisation and beat you to fucking death with it, so they don't really give themselves a lot of choice.  It's much easier to identify when you understand.

I would disagree that they do Black Widow okay.  I think she's pretty flat and uninteresting.  She only really came alive briefly in Iron Man and Winter Soldier.

If anything, Black Panther did women better, I think.  They were certainly more focused, defined and interesting.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Cyrrex
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Reply #142 on: September 12, 2018, 03:57:19 AM

Well, "okay" in that she is surrounded by gods basically, so I am not sure how much they can reasonably pull her out of that.

Agree with BP, though, they did it fairly well.  I think the trick is to do it without making it feel like blatant pandering, which is difficult as it is so often in the eye of the beholder.

Never, ever assume someone that short and fat has their shit together. - Schild
eldaec
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Reply #143 on: September 12, 2018, 06:35:01 AM

ScarJo herself does a good job. But the script of both the first two avengers movies had her defined as 'love interest for male plot device', then she turned up in CA3 to give a performance of 'reasonable female unable to make boys behave'.

I don't think she has been more than a background trope in any film.

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MediumHigh
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Reply #144 on: September 12, 2018, 08:55:06 AM

Overall its a competently produced 10 episodes. But its kinda bland in its own way despite having plenty of characters that I liked and very very few cringe moments. To compare this to season 1, I will have to say while season 1 had plenty of lows, it also has highs. This season kinda stays in one middling tempo that never builds or drops. You like Colleen, you like Mary Walker, hell you even like Ward and his fuck buddy/baby mama. There is no cringe worthy corporate scenes, no Dany standing around repeating "I am the Immortal Iron Fist" like a pokemon. But the trade off is that you also don't get anything too interesting like the conflict involving the Hand and also the fight scenes are not as interesting or as reminiscent of kung-fu movies of old. So while season 2 had better characters, acting, generally stayed away from being Cringe Fist. It also didn't give them a more interesting scenario to work with and Dany, while more mature, still struggling with the same fundamental problem with the Netflix iteration of him. I watched about 15% of this show while doing something else, so I guess Bore Fist or 7/10 Fist is a good description.

Going back to Dany's fundamental problem. For a character who is all about balance and purpose he kinda has none. He is perpetually on the verge of finding himself and who he is. Which is fine for an origin story, not so fine for a netflix series. Everyone else from Matt Murdock to Jessica Jones knows what their about, what their powers do, who they are as a person. That is not Dany. We are still trying to teach Dany how to not use the fist like a wack-o-mole mallet 22 episodes later and thats just his powers, the rest of his character is still under construction. No wonder the show double downed on the side cast this season because it would have only lasted 3 episodes otherwise.

Also Colleen Wing best girlfriend of 2018. Fucking A what a refreshing take on a healthy relationship. Who knew writing one would be so fucking hard.

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Threash
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Reply #145 on: September 14, 2018, 03:09:12 PM

I'm about half way - this is pretty good. Not amazing but good.

This show really makes me wonder why marvel TV can do women well and villians pretty well but the movies suck at both. Especially as the movies do most other things so much better.


All the movies since like Thor 2 have had amazing villains, they are like some of the best parts of the MCU.

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eldaec
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Reply #146 on: September 15, 2018, 06:58:21 PM

We're going to have to disagree given that would include Ronan the Dull, Ultron, the guy in a suit from Ant Man, and the mean cloud in Dr Strange.

Great MCU villians : Loki, Michael Keaton, Kurt Russell. End of list.

And I'm being generous with Kurt Russell.

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
Threash
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Reply #147 on: September 15, 2018, 07:06:05 PM

Thanos was great, Hela Ghost Killmonger and Mads Mikkelsen were good

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HaemishM
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Reply #148 on: September 15, 2018, 07:06:11 PM

You forgot Thanos.

EDIT: And Threash beat me to it. The point still stands. I don't think Hela was great because she wasn't in most of the movie, but you should include Grandmaster.

eldaec
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Reply #149 on: September 17, 2018, 04:39:38 AM

I will concede grandmaster.

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
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Cyrrex
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Reply #150 on: September 17, 2018, 07:36:12 AM

For the record, and back on topic, I thoroughly enjoyed Season 2 of IF.  Interesting how people see the same material so differently.  I like Danny Rand just fine, I like Ward even more (even if that plot line seemed kinda unnecessary), and I want to have Colleen Wing's babies.  All good.

I also really like the slow simmering coolness of Luke Cage, including season 2.  We are living in a golden age when we are so spoiled that we can nitpick stuff like this, my whole childhood was spent dreaming about this kind of stuff.  Viva la difference, or something.

Never, ever assume someone that short and fat has their shit together. - Schild
MahrinSkel
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Reply #151 on: September 17, 2018, 07:44:28 AM

If you just ignore season 1 and Defenders, and take this by itself, it was a good season. Better written, better fight scenes (I think they finally started using a double for Ser Loras), and a Big Bad that was much more appropriate for the scale. If this had been the first season of IF, it would have been a good intro to building up to The Hand.

Of course, they already blew that, and are going to have a lot of spade work to build up to a decent alternative.

--Dave

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Threash
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Reply #152 on: September 17, 2018, 10:14:47 AM

Yes, this was a good season. The thing is there was no Iron Fist, not after like episode 2 or so.

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