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Author Topic: Marvel's Iron Fist  (Read 6252 times)
satael
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Reply #70 on: March 19, 2017, 03:52:47 AM

From the episodes I've watched so far this is easily the weakest of Netflix's Marvel shows. I'll finish it mostly due to the small off-chance that there's something like Daredevil's Punisher (sidestory)character to save the mess in the second half.  Ohhhhh, I see.

edit: finished it and my final opinion is a weak meh (there was nothing interesting in the second half to save the season)
« Last Edit: March 19, 2017, 02:24:12 PM by satael »
jgsugden
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Reply #71 on: March 19, 2017, 01:38:21 PM

I finished Season 1. I've been home sick this weekend and didn't feel like getting off the couch, or else I'd likely have stopped somewhere along the line.

This is the weakest Netflix Marvel show.  Casting, direction, writing, cinematography... everything had flaws.  Jessica Henwick was enjoyable as Colleen Wing.  Some of the fight scenes were pleasant (although a lot of them were just blurs of motion).  There were moments here and there that worked... but in general this is a fail.

However,  it wasn't much worse than the bad parts of Daredevil, Jessica Jones and Luke Cage.  I kind of think they'd be well served to have the show follow the comics: After Luke Cage and Iron First both had support drop off for their comics, Marvel put the two characters together in a series to sllow their tales to continue.  Netflix could do that same here.  It might be the best way to wrap up the threads of these series and then move on to other characters.

I miss Good Eats.  *Sniff*
Threash
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Reply #72 on: March 19, 2017, 01:50:00 PM

It's nice to see Job and Bunker from Banshee again.  Biggest problem with the show is no Kingpin, Kilgrave or Cottonmouth.

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Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #73 on: March 19, 2017, 03:19:52 PM

I don't know if this show needed to be paired with someone else so much as it needed to stop following what is now the netflix hero formula. 

Just one example is it's gotta be a certain number of hour long episodes, god forbid you cant streatch your story that far(all of them had bloat).  Honestly more patient men than men will write pages long dissertations on this but really, Iron Fist could have really mixed up the formula, gotten from schlocky Hong Kong action going. It could have at least tried to be different but we just got more of the same.

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Ghambit
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Reply #74 on: March 19, 2017, 03:45:44 PM

I'm struggling to get past the annoying portrayal of the main character.  He just grates on me, badly.  Not sure I can keep watching after making it halfway through.
Best parts of it are the Meachams channeling their inner Stilgar voices; especially Wenham.  Similar to Cottonmouth's hypnotic performance in Cage.

Marvel really needs to use more nuanced portrayals of their main characters, rather than giving the best casting and writing to the supporting cast and leaving the main characters to be your typically shiny, boring hipster blossoms (Jessica Jones was their best effort.  Then Cage).  Even Wing... she got outgunned by Dawson easily; but I expect that in everything Dawson is in.

Imagine this IronFist with Wenham as the lead, for instance.  Or even the guy who plays Wade.  If you analyze the script, I won't say it is horrible... it just requires a certain type of delivery (phrasing, inflection, etc.)  that they largely failed to do.  Shame.

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Soln
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Reply #75 on: March 19, 2017, 06:31:14 PM

The actors are badly cast.  All of them. On E2 and the villains are bad soap operas stars.  None of these people have any charisma or maybe talent.  Waiting on Dawson to pull thing up at the point.
Ghambit
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Reply #76 on: March 19, 2017, 07:31:15 PM

On that note, why the fuck they don't give Dawson her own series is beyond me.  She is trapped in this shitty MCU role right now unfortunately.

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Bzalthek
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Reply #77 on: March 19, 2017, 08:51:59 PM

I found it to be thoroughly enjoyable.  I particularly liked the portrayal of various psychosis Harold and Ward were suffering.  The Davos/Colleen symmetry was also a nice touch.

"Pity hurricanes aren't actually caused by gays; I would take a shot in the mouth right now if it meant wiping out these chucklefucks." ~WayAbvPar
Ghambit
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Reply #78 on: March 20, 2017, 02:22:35 AM

I find it enjoyable too, especially for the reasons you just stated... but gawd the Fist himself is annoying.

"See, the beauty of webgames is that I can play them on my phone while I'm plowing your mom."  -Samwise
satael
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Reply #79 on: March 20, 2017, 02:34:56 AM

I think I would have liked it a lot more if it had been all about the Meachums with no Iron Fist at all (and replace all "magic" with "science fiction")
Bunk
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Reply #80 on: March 20, 2017, 09:21:37 AM

I've sort of been hate tinging it? Two episodes to go. I don't think all of the cast is terribad. I actually like the Jessica character. Danny is a whiny bitch and I keep wanting to see him get beat up. Writing is all over the place. One of the biggest issues though is that they didn't have a strong villain to focus part of the plot on. I suppose it was meant to be one more of the Meechams, but they don't stand up to Kingpin, Kilgrave or Cottonmouth.

It gets a little better as it goes and some thing start unraveling for Meecham, but its not great.

Also very glaring:

We are in New York (Vancouver), quick lets go to China!

 - five minute plane scene

Here we are in China! (Vancouver with a few extra Chinese signs)


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Bzalthek
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"Use the Soy Sauce, Luke!" WHOM, ZASH, CLISH CLASH! "Umeboshi Kenobi!! NOOO!!!"


Reply #81 on: March 20, 2017, 09:25:50 AM

I find it enjoyable too, especially for the reasons you just stated... but gawd the Fist himself is annoying.


"Pity hurricanes aren't actually caused by gays; I would take a shot in the mouth right now if it meant wiping out these chucklefucks." ~WayAbvPar
jgsugden
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Reply #82 on: March 20, 2017, 09:28:35 AM

Iron Fist, like all the other Netflix series in the MCU, was filmed in NY.

I do not get the Meacham love. They were boring villains to me. This whole series should have been 6 episodes and then 7 more focused on a battle with the Steel Serpent.

I miss Good Eats.  *Sniff*
satael
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Reply #83 on: March 20, 2017, 10:07:27 AM

I do not get the Meacham love. They were boring villains to me. This whole series should have been 6 episodes and then 7 more focused on a battle with the Steel Serpent.

I don't think it's really about Meachums being villains but rather that their story is given so much time (and in my opinion all the actors playing them are far better than Finn Jones playing Danny). As for the Hand being the main villains it really suffers from the fact that they (both) are trying to recruit Danny rather than trying to kill him (for some obscure reason since Danny doesn't seem to pose them any real danger nor do his powers seem all that impressive)
Shannow
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Reply #84 on: March 20, 2017, 10:31:50 AM

I find it enjoyable too, especially for the reasons you just stated... but gawd the Fist himself is annoying.



Can't say I'm enjoying the show but since I've committed to watching this with my son (Dad-teen son bonding etc etc) I have no choice. #@%!!

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Soln
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Reply #85 on: March 20, 2017, 10:43:47 AM

After he busts out in e2, I was struck by how odd an origin story this is:  unlike every other starting superhero he already has his powers and a purpose.  He's not struggling towards building a persona like Daredevil or a purpose like Cage and Jones.  He knows what he is and what he's supposed to do.  But he doesn't seem to know why he went back to NY, and we don't either.  It's also counter I thought to the comic arc where he leaves Kun-Lun for revenge on his parents death.  The story is not making a lot of sense.
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Reply #86 on: March 20, 2017, 11:19:44 AM

The story makes even less sense when you start to think about it at all. Everyone says he died 15 years previously and Kun Lun only shows every 15 years.. so where'd he pick up the modern life skills? How has he, with the skill set of a 10 year old rich kid, managed to get anyplace near NYC? There's all sorts of cultural lack of knowledge he'd never have picked up. Like, oh, a wide English vocabulary (since he was 10.) knowledge of navigating around the city, or even how to buy a goddamn plane ticket, obtain a visa or even get into the USA. Nevermind how he jumped into the car and drove it like a goddamn expert.

Even the throwaway line of, "I did some money fighting in <blah> makes no sense if he popped out of Kun and headed straight for the US. Our Bushido queen is barely scraping rent together doing it in the US. No way rich kid scrapes together the scratch in east Asia for the US ticket in a few fights.

This is the weakest by far, not only in terms of acting but by story choices as well.

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kaid
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Reply #87 on: March 20, 2017, 12:57:48 PM

It's nice to see Job and Bunker from Banshee again.  Biggest problem with the show is no Kingpin, Kilgrave or Cottonmouth.

The problem is the "big bad" for this season is Danny's past. The whole thing is basically him overcoming what happened to him to try to become what he needs to be. It follows a lot of the plot points of many old kung fu movies that I think is intentional. For what it appears they were aiming for it likely hit the target they were aiming for but I think the audience was expecting something else.
MahrinSkel
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Reply #88 on: March 20, 2017, 07:12:50 PM

Just finished the second episode: It's not that bad. If it weren't stacking up directly against Daredevil and Luke Cage, I would probably go as far "Pretty Good".  But the material is not quite as strong, and the direction and cinematography are just not in the same league with the other Netflix Marvel shows. It isn't *bad*, but where the camerawork and the pauses were a language of their own in the other Netflix MCU titles, this one it is just 'meh'. So many places where framing and set dressing is just by the numbers, rather than saying anything in itself.

The 'cultural appropriation' crew can suck my left nut, of all the weaknesses in this, the 'white savior' trope is not even making the list. And the martial arts scenes are not nearly as good as, say, Into the Badlands.  But if you're watching TV to learn Kung Fu, you're doing it wrong (both the Kung Fu, and watching TV).

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NowhereMan
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Reply #89 on: March 22, 2017, 08:28:17 AM

I've only seen the first but it's already feeling more CW DC show than Netflix. Based on other comments here it feels like the overall quality of production won't be there and the fight cinematography is going to be nearer the former than the latter. Which is a shame because Daredevil had a few moments of utterly amazing fight scenes. For a series that is going to be reliant on its martial arts portrayal it's sad that they just didn't really pull it off.

The cultural appropriation thing is pretty whatevs to me. I'd have liked it if they'd done something to spice the character up a bit, reinvent him somewhat but the character is what it is. From the sound of things the two villain arc per series thing sounds like it's becoming a staple. It makes it easier to keep interest and tension but I'm worried it's going to become a predictable trope. Hopefully for the Defenders or other series they'll play around with that a bit.

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Threash
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Reply #90 on: March 22, 2017, 09:01:42 AM

I don't know about anything else but i thought the fights were top notch.  The problems with the series are an unlikable main character, lack of stand out villain and absolutely no humor or light hardheartedness at all.  I think i cracked a smile once in 13 episodes, and that was at someone stealing the catch phrase from a different series.

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Ghambit
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Reply #91 on: March 22, 2017, 09:36:13 AM

The show is basically "Billy the TrustFund Dreadlock is Emo."  They're not even shy about it really.  They didn't even bother to give him any kind of accent or K'ul L'un style speech pattern.  Is this the way the comic is? 

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HaemishM
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Reply #92 on: March 22, 2017, 09:40:19 AM

The Iron Fist comic is extremely variable depending on who is writing it. In the last stories I read with him (where he teamed up with Luke Cage again), he's pretty much an airhead. The Matt Fraction/David Aja stuff was much better.

eldaec
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Reply #93 on: March 22, 2017, 10:13:12 AM

3 episodes in and my biggest issue is the script.

Overuse of incompetence-as-plot. The Meechums simply do not work as business leaders and Danny's ridiculous and now boring naivety doesn't work for someone who apparently found his way from China to New York with no money and fake papers.

Only 5 characters yet after 3 episodes I know almost nothing about any of them. Hiding some of them would be fine but we're not seeing anyone's PoV.


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Merusk
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Reply #94 on: March 22, 2017, 11:12:21 AM

The show is basically "Billy the TrustFund Dreadlock is Emo."  They're not even shy about it really.  They didn't even bother to give him any kind of accent or K'ul L'un style speech pattern.  Is this the way the comic is? 

Since he was 10 that part I can buy. Speech patterns in a language are pretty well set by then.

I can't get past the panties - Alluvian
I really like the cocks. - Lantyssa
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Threash
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Reply #95 on: March 22, 2017, 11:20:39 AM

Yeah, part of the problem was that they wanted to treat him like Tarzan lost in New York when he lived 40% of his life there.  If anything he should have been a lot less confused.

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MahrinSkel
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Reply #96 on: March 22, 2017, 12:04:49 PM

Now I'm thinking that the problem with the martial arts scenes is that they are too authentic: Real martial arts moves, especially close quarters grappling and punching, does not look that great, combine that with the fact that they are doing them sparring-style (2/3 speed with no follow through), and an audience used to the choreographed dance scenes of usual screen fighting is not impressed.

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satael
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Reply #97 on: March 22, 2017, 12:22:47 PM

I thought that the fight scenes were pretty bad in this which is probably best shwon when you compare the hallway fights from IF, DD and LC. The sad thing is that this might have been somewhat fixed if they had gone with Lewis Tan (the drunken boxing villain from episode 8) instead of Finn Jones for the Danny Rand part (this was actually considered according to this article)
Threash
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Reply #98 on: March 22, 2017, 12:55:54 PM

Fuck, that drunken master was the best character on the show and he was on like five minutes.

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Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #99 on: March 22, 2017, 01:35:33 PM

It's a lot easier to find a martial artist and teach them how to act than find an actor and teach them martial arts.  Sadly, they went with the latter option.

~a horrific, dark simulacrum that glares balefully at us, with evil intent.
MahrinSkel
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When she crossed over, she was just a ship. But when she came back... she was bullshit!


Reply #100 on: March 22, 2017, 02:27:31 PM

It's a lot easier to find a martial artist and teach them how to act than find an actor and teach them martial arts.  Sadly, they went with the latter option.
Pretty much. What he was doing wasn't bad, but it wasn't done with the grace that an actual long time practitioner would have, and he couldn't modify it into the mugged-up flashy styles that look good on camera.

--Dave

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eldaec
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Reply #101 on: March 22, 2017, 02:59:56 PM

I don't mind the action itself. It's ok.


The issue I do have is that there is no sense of threat. The superhero isn't going to die and he has no friends and no goals to put at risk. He has talked vaguely about the Hand but three hours in they aren't present. He's messing about trying to get control of Rand corp for no reason at all.

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Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #102 on: March 22, 2017, 04:41:12 PM

I have to be a stickler on this point.  The action can be "ok" in most super hero shows but when the main focus of the hero is his martial arts abilities, the action better be more than "ok".  You can have shitty villains in an Iron man movie but the suit itself has to be top notch. 

~a horrific, dark simulacrum that glares balefully at us, with evil intent.
Rasix
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Reply #103 on: March 23, 2017, 11:00:02 AM

I'm 5 episodes in, and I'm not sure I'm going to bother finishing. It's entertaining, but it's just so poorly written, and the plot is absolute garbage. I can hardly even blame Finn Jones for being shitty, because nothing they're giving this main character makes sense.

Hell, I haven't even hit the usual "well, what the fuck do we do for these next 4 episodes" portion of the season. Maybe that's where they'll stick the actual character motivation, character development, and something that makes this plot actually interesting?

This effort (so far) just feels like a waste of everyone's time.

-Rasix
jgsugden
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Reply #104 on: March 23, 2017, 08:01:22 PM

They're going to do 13 episodes a year they should probably do between two and four different storylines and just release a Storyline by itself and then wait a few months before releasing the next one.

I miss Good Eats.  *Sniff*
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