Star Wars : Into Spoilers - The Spoiler awakens.

[Khaldun]

He's not the first to point it out! It's more coherent by far than his earlier postings. He came back to medium from fully high.

[Surlyboi]

Relevant. The radicalization of Luke Skywalker, a Jeri's path to jihad.

[Threash]

Well, don't most of the old guard end up on the death stars and star destroyers that got blown up?

Not to mention the uncoutable number of First Order guys that were on the Starkiller Death Star that got blown up as well! So much for the young'uns!

That was more of a slow breaking apart of the planet, i would assume a large number got away.  At least i hope the girl from killjoys made it.

[Hoax]

I didn't like it.

I blame expectations. The buzz had me expecting something much better than the Trek reboot and this was not that.

Personally I thought Rey was great, the x-wing pilot was great and the droid was great. MAYBE they can save the new vader. Maybe. But he was pretty lame in this movie. If as someone suggested upthread the new emperor with the terrible name hadn't existed (so he's a dark side guy with no master except grandad's helmet) that could have super worked. He's not strong at all by jedi standards because he lacks direction and training. But I think they made him feel not very menacing and his temper tantrums were so lame. He's already lost to the main good guy. Someone suggested that he will now be motivated by jealousy and anger that she is better than him at everything and that could work. We'll see. Could be redeemed but overall the bad guys in this sucked a lot compared to even Darth Maul who at least was one of the cooler edgelords ever.

The pacing was fucking awful. Especially in the first third. Just jumping from coincidence to coincidence too fast, very jarring.

The plot armor was too intense for words especially any time the MF was involved. Fucking nuts at times.

As for Finn. He was shit. His character was written so poorly. The just recently unbrainwashed guy is the one carrying all the humour for the kids? It was bad. Really bad. He was poorly written, his motivations gave me whiplash and made almost no sense except that he is just in love with the girl. Which works but doesn't explain how he can defect and 5min later he is ok with shooting up any new order dude he sees and cheering about it. Really not comfortable with anything about that character, didn't work for me at all. Had the worst lines and worst character motivations.

The shit that threw me out of the mood of the movie the most though was everything involving the new death star. I had to suppress a groan I think when they were going over their plan to blow it up. That was by far the weakest bit of the movie.  The scale of events was just all off kilter. It reminded me very much of Khan. JJ just can't get big picture stuff right seemingly. The rebels are so small that they only have x-wings? Are the new order big or small? I honestly could never tell.

It didn't suck. Especially when we're all just trying to wash the prequels out of our minds. And it could lead to good things. Hopefully it was just dragged down by a desire to pay a lot of homage to the first 3 and fit the old cast in. They did ok with the old cast. Except that entire scene with Han and the two smuggler gangs and the tentacle monsters (thanks 3d for forcing stupid shit for the sake of 3d into every movie). I have no idea what all they cut to keep that fucking scene but I'm positive it was a mistake.

[Tannhauser]

What if the reason Rey is picking up force powers so quickly, so easily, is that she is channgelling the dark side?  Didn't Yoda warn Luke that it was quicker, more seductive?  Look at how she flipped out on Ren.

[Merusk]

Apparently in the Infinities 3.0 set, Ren calls Rey out as his cousin. No link as I'm on a phone and it was a Facebook linked article.

[Evildrider]

Apparently in the Infinities 3.0 set, Ren calls Rey out as his cousin. No link as I'm on a phone and it was a Facebook linked article.

If true, I bet she's subconsciously remembering her Jedi training.  I bet Luke gave her a mind whammy before leaving her on Jakku.  That makes some of her reactions to information make more sense.  Like how she knows Han as a smuggler and kind of glosses over the mention of him being a General in the Rebellion.  She also seemed totally disinterested in anything Jedi before her first vision.

[Lakov_Sanite]

If you think this was on par or worse than the trek reboot(either of them) you are objectively wrong.

[jgsugden]

Apparently in the Infinities 3.0 set, Ren calls Rey out as his cousin. No link as I'm on a phone and it was a Facebook linked article.

Debunked. He says the same thing against other characters, too. It is actually two things he says... "Face me" and "Curses"...

[MediumHigh]

If you think this was on par or worse than the trek reboot(either of them) you are objectively wrong.

I wonder if we have to wait till the second movie  before your fanboyism turns to horror and disgust.

[jgsugden]

This is not the best film ever, nor the worst.  It gets bonus points for being a worthy continuation of the most beloved adventure movie series ever, after seeing a first attempt at furthering the franchise be such a horrible failure. I don't expect VIII to be a masterpiece, but I have May 2017 circled on my calendar because I am looking forward to the continuation of one of my favorite stories ever.

Because it is Star Wars, it does not need to be a masterpiece to be great.

[Samprimary]

[Surlyboi]

If you think this was on par or worse than the trek reboot(either of them) you are objectively wrong.

I wonder if we have to wait till the second movie  before your fanboyism turns to horror and disgust.

[Riggswolfe]

If you think this was on par or worse than the trek reboot(either of them) you are objectively wrong.

I wonder if we have to wait till the second movie  before your fanboyism turns to horror and disgust.

Let it go. Find another windmill to tilt against.

[MediumHigh]

The answer is yes than.

[Azazel]

Serious question: If you hated the film so badly, why are you still posting in this thread? I mean, it doesn't need to be a circle jerk echo chamber, but you seem to have really really disliked/been horribly disappointed in the film, and now mostly seem to be dedicated to shitting on it rather than discussing it.

What it comes down to is that some of us enjoyed a movie that you didn't. Why so upset with that?

[Riggswolfe]

Serious question: If you hated the film so badly, why are you still posting in this thread? I mean, it doesn't need to be a circle jerk echo chamber, but you seem to have really really disliked/been horribly disappointed in the film, and now mostly seem to be dedicated to shitting on it rather than discussing it.

What it comes down to is that some of us enjoyed a movie that you didn't. Why so upset with that?

I think he started with hoping to convince people he was right in his rants and has now migrated to trolling the thread.

[Mandella]

Serious question: If you hated the film so badly, why are you still posting in this thread? I mean, it doesn't need to be a circle jerk echo chamber, but you seem to have really really disliked/been horribly disappointed in the film, and now mostly seem to be dedicated to shitting on it rather than discussing it.

What it comes down to is that some of us enjoyed a movie that you didn't. Why so upset with that?

I think he started with hoping to convince people he was right in his rants and has now migrated to trolling the thread.

Well, it's certainly not a rarity on the internet...  

But it's not even like most folks here can't see the flaws in the film, it's just that, for me and most others, the positives outweighed the bad. And I am certainly looking forward to the next installment of the series, which I will then judge on its own merits. I may be disappointed, I may not.

That's how it goes, when you're not prejudiced.

I do have to admit that I had the definition of Mary Sue wrong. I thought it was when an author effectively writes himself into his work, and then gives himself super powers/makes himself central to the story/universe (M. Night Shyamalan's character in Lady in the Water comes to mind right off). That sort of thing can be irritating when obvious, just for the egotism involved.

But a Mary Sue is just any super powered character that doesn't "earn" her powers in some way shown in the movie/book/whatever? Huh. That's actually not that bad, depending on how it is shown. Good acting/directing/writing can pull it off, as can a good crew of secondary characters. In any case, I see Rey as one of the enigmas of the story. Someone we're supposed to discover more about as the series progresses. And I do suspect she will have a fall. After all, she, as it stands now, has little concept of the possibility of failure.

But one day she's going to reach for a skill, and maybe the Force just isn't going to be online that day.

Or maybe I'm writing too much into a plot device. We'll see.

But at least I'm looking forward to it.

[MahrinSkel]

The original meaning was the author surrogate, but Hollywood has been playing with the trope and it has expanded and refined. In the "Superstar" episode of Buffy, Jonathan becomes a sort of Mary Sue/Gary Stu character, suddenly he is the hypercompetent and super-popular center of attention.

Expendables is filled with Gary Stu characters, especially things like the Chuck Norris cameo. Wil Wheaton's Wesley in TNG is a notorious example of an actual author surrogate in the canon. The list could go on, but the TV Tropes page on it will cover it in detail if you want to risk your evening.

--Dave

[BobtheSomething]

Serious question: If you hated the film so badly, why are you still posting in this thread? I mean, it doesn't need to be a circle jerk echo chamber, but you seem to have really really disliked/been horribly disappointed in the film, and now mostly seem to be dedicated to shitting on it rather than discussing it.

What it comes down to is that some of us enjoyed a movie that you didn't. Why so upset with that?

I think he started with hoping to convince people he was right in his rants and has now migrated to trolling the thread.

I pretty much agree with everything he said.  I mean, I loved watching the movie, felt like a kid again even, but It was a shit movie.  I'd compare it to Pacific Rim, another dumb, fun movie.   TFA was more fun and much more dumb.  I like reading criticism of the film not because I hated the film, but because everyone on my facebook feed is calling TFA the second best Star Wars after Empire, and that scares the shit out of me.  That's crazy.

In my opinion, 95% of the problems with TFA are directly attributable to Abrams, from the pacing, to the lack of scale, to the flat storytelling, emotionless climax, to the plot chopped into nonsense.  But all the actors, artists, special effects teams, puppeteers, sound teams and even the fucking caterer came to the movie with heart and talent, so it wasn't a painfully bad film like the prequels.  At least Abrams didn't fuck with the actors, and knows a thing or two about action.  That Falcon chase scene on Jakku was worth the price of admission.

[WayAbvPar]

Serious question: If you hated the film so badly, why are you still posting in this thread? I mean, it doesn't need to be a circle jerk echo chamber, but you seem to have really really disliked/been horribly disappointed in the film, and now mostly seem to be dedicated to shitting on it rather than discussing it.

What it comes down to is that some of us enjoyed a movie that you didn't. Why so upset with that?

I think he started with hoping to convince people he was right in his rants and has now migrated to trolling the thread.

I pretty much agree with everything he said.  I mean, I loved watching the movie, felt like a kid again even, but It was a shit movie.  I'd compare it to Pacific Rim, another dumb, fun movie.   TFA was more fun and much more dumb.  I like reading criticism of the film not because I hated the film, but because everyone on my facebook feed is calling TFA the second best Star Wars after Empire, and that scares the shit out of me.  That's crazy.

In my opinion, 95% of the problems with TFA are directly attributable to Abrams, from the pacing, to the lack of scale, to the flat storytelling, emotionless climax, to the plot chopped into nonsense.  But all the actors, artists, special effects teams, puppeteers, sound teams and even the fucking caterer came to the movie with heart and talent, so it wasn't a painfully bad film like the prequels.  At least Abrams didn't fuck with the actors, and knows a thing or two about action.  That Falcon chase scene on Jakku was worth the price of admission.

Sorry- Nothing is dumber than an movie about giant monsters and giant robots and the idiotic giant wall constructed to keep the monsters out. Ernest Goes To Camp was a better script.

[Draegan]

Serious question: If you hated the film so badly, why are you still posting in this thread? I mean, it doesn't need to be a circle jerk echo chamber, but you seem to have really really disliked/been horribly disappointed in the film, and now mostly seem to be dedicated to shitting on it rather than discussing it.

What it comes down to is that some of us enjoyed a movie that you didn't. Why so upset with that?

I think he started with hoping to convince people he was right in his rants and has now migrated to trolling the thread.

I pretty much agree with everything he said.  I mean, I loved watching the movie, felt like a kid again even, but It was a shit movie.  I'd compare it to Pacific Rim, another dumb, fun movie.   TFA was more fun and much more dumb.  I like reading criticism of the film not because I hated the film, but because everyone on my facebook feed is calling TFA the second best Star Wars after Empire, and that scares the shit out of me.  That's crazy.

In my opinion, 95% of the problems with TFA are directly attributable to Abrams, from the pacing, to the lack of scale, to the flat storytelling, emotionless climax, to the plot chopped into nonsense.  But all the actors, artists, special effects teams, puppeteers, sound teams and even the fucking caterer came to the movie with heart and talent, so it wasn't a painfully bad film like the prequels.  At least Abrams didn't fuck with the actors, and knows a thing or two about action.  That Falcon chase scene on Jakku was worth the price of admission.

So on your scale of bad opinions shit movie ranks above  painfully bad. One scene was  worth the price of admission  and the people in the movie worked with heart but it was a shit movie, worse that Pacifc Rim.

You must be a hoot at parties.

[BobtheSomething]

Serious question: If you hated the film so badly, why are you still posting in this thread? I mean, it doesn't need to be a circle jerk echo chamber, but you seem to have really really disliked/been horribly disappointed in the film, and now mostly seem to be dedicated to shitting on it rather than discussing it.

What it comes down to is that some of us enjoyed a movie that you didn't. Why so upset with that?

I think he started with hoping to convince people he was right in his rants and has now migrated to trolling the thread.

I pretty much agree with everything he said.  I mean, I loved watching the movie, felt like a kid again even, but It was a shit movie.  I'd compare it to Pacific Rim, another dumb, fun movie.   TFA was more fun and much more dumb.  I like reading criticism of the film not because I hated the film, but because everyone on my facebook feed is calling TFA the second best Star Wars after Empire, and that scares the shit out of me.  That's crazy.

In my opinion, 95% of the problems with TFA are directly attributable to Abrams, from the pacing, to the lack of scale, to the flat storytelling, emotionless climax, to the plot chopped into nonsense.  But all the actors, artists, special effects teams, puppeteers, sound teams and even the fucking caterer came to the movie with heart and talent, so it wasn't a painfully bad film like the prequels.  At least Abrams didn't fuck with the actors, and knows a thing or two about action.  That Falcon chase scene on Jakku was worth the price of admission.

So on your scale of bad opinions shit movie ranks above  painfully bad. One scene was  worth the price of admission  and the people in the movie worked with heart but it was a shit movie, worse that Pacifc Rim.

You must be a hoot at parties.

It was fun.  The pacing was terrible.  Han's death was actually boring.  Rey, Poe and Finn are all written as contrivance characters who know or can do whatever a scene requires in order to move the plot immediately forward.  There was more homage and call back than original material.  Abrams had to one up the OT with a bigger Death Star that blows up more planets, an older Yoda, a Sarlacc pit that walks, no two walking Sarlaacs, and not two Greedos, not three Greedos, but two teams of Greedos.  Every single part of the movie involving Starkiller base and its destruction was equally dumb as the Wall in Pacific Rim.  Pacific Rim asked the audience to accept one stupid premise (the robots) and then ran with that with only the wall standing out as an aberration from the basic premise in stupidity.  TFA has stupid characters (Does Ren always take the sanitation department on I portent raids?  Aren't there special forces troopers to go with the special forces TIEs?), a stupid plot (a map of a completely charted Galaxy missing a piece, and neither the map nor the piece have enough I for to find the location?  How many coincidences does it take to tell a story?  I could go on), a completely stupid inability to deal with scale or even the basic premise (Starkiller base, coincidences, Han Solo the super famous smuggler putz, Luke quitting and running away like a Jedi), and a stupid resolution.  There really is far more about TFA that is stupid.  Pacific Rim had a more competent director and got more out his giant robot story even with a mediocre cast.  TFA had an amazing cast who were a joy to watch on screen.  They deserved a better director.

[Malakili]

You know what movies had terrible pacing? The prequels.  This movie did not have terrible pacing.  It was not a perfect movie, but it was a good, solid Star Wars movie. I guess you can say the fact that they remade A New Hope is a point against it, but context matters here. They needed to make a good space adventure movie while proving to people "Star Wars is back."  They did that.  Was it a little heavy handed at times? Sure.  But again, fun space adventure movie that gets the fundamental elements of Star Wars back into Star Wars.

[Draegan]

It was fun.  The pacing was terrible.  Han's death was actually boring.  Rey, Poe and Finn are all written as contrivance characters who know or can do whatever a scene requires in order to move the plot immediately forward.  There was more homage and call back than original material.  Abrams had to one up the OT with a bigger Death Star that blows up more planets, an older Yoda, a Sarlacc pit that walks, no two walking Sarlaacs, and not two Greedos, not three Greedos, but two teams of Greedos.  Every single part of the movie involving Starkiller base and its destruction was equally dumb as the Wall in Pacific Rim.  Pacific Rim asked the audience to accept one stupid premise (the robots) and then ran with that with only the wall standing out as an aberration from the basic premise in stupidity.  TFA has stupid characters (Does Ren always take the sanitation department on I portent raids?  Aren't there special forces troopers to go with the special forces TIEs?), a stupid plot (a map of a completely charted Galaxy missing a piece, and neither the map nor the piece have enough I for to find the location?  How many coincidences does it take to tell a story?  I could go on), a completely stupid inability to deal with scale or even the basic premise (Starkiller base, coincidences, Han Solo the super famous smuggler putz, Luke quitting and running away like a Jedi), and a stupid resolution.  There really is far more about TFA that is stupid.  Pacific Rim had a more competent director and got more out his giant robot story even with a mediocre cast.  TFA had an amazing cast who were a joy to watch on screen.  They deserved a better director.

So you're the type person that can't enjoy anything. Got it.

[Hoax]

Um he said it was fun and credited the cast and he clearly had even more fun watching PacRim which nobody would ever mistake for a competent movie.

Seems like you are the type of person who can't handle people not liking something you like as much as you think they should.

[Draegan]

Clearly this message board is not know for mocking people with awful opinions. Said movie was shit goes on to explain all the things he liked about it and parts that were worth the price of the ticket.

[Surlyboi]

Sock puppet? I'm thinking sock puppet.

[Sir T]

This is where I think about renaming this thread...

[Slyfeind]

Serious question: If you hated the film so badly, why are you still posting in this thread? I mean, it doesn't need to be a circle jerk echo chamber, but you seem to have really really disliked/been horribly disappointed in the film, and now mostly seem to be dedicated to shitting on it rather than discussing it.

What it comes down to is that some of us enjoyed a movie that you didn't. Why so upset with that?

Don't you understand? ALL OF US ARE WRONG AND HE NEEDS TO FIX US!

[Evildrider]

Serious question: If you hated the film so badly, why are you still posting in this thread? I mean, it doesn't need to be a circle jerk echo chamber, but you seem to have really really disliked/been horribly disappointed in the film, and now mostly seem to be dedicated to shitting on it rather than discussing it.

What it comes down to is that some of us enjoyed a movie that you didn't. Why so upset with that?

Don't you understand? ALL OF US ARE WRONG AND HE NEEDS TO FIX US!

He's a Movie Justice Warrior?

[Surlyboi]

Cinema Justice Warrior

[Khaldun]

Look, this is practically the spirit of Christmas or something, considering that the person who keeps this whole thing going has famously bad taste when it comes to culture. As long as nothing ridiculously extraneous enters the discussion, rock on Amadeus. Let dumb opinions that are very nearly objectively wrong reign supreme! What would the world be without them?

[Shannow]

Went and saw again (good sign for Disney, showtimes were almost all sold out all day, had to sit in the front row, now have a headache), still enjoying it. Maybe even more.
Couple of notes:

Really digging 'Rey's theme', nice work with the flutes JW

Did the Republic Navy skimp on ships? Why no A, Y or B wings??? (Just had a 5 minute argument in the car about the procurement policy of a made up navy with made up ships . I love Star Wars..:D)

Snoops says 'complete his training' not begin it (in regards to Ren).

[Merusk]

Yeah, going tomorrow for the IMAX poster and even the 9am showings are 1/4 full already. Crazy that there's not only 9am showings but that they're still that full ahead of time. The 12:30 showing was 1/2 full as well.

Rey's Theme still strikes me as familiar and I can't figure out why. The refrain you're talking about reminds me of another piece and I just can't figure out which one.

Y-Wings were old and retiring at the end of ANH, but they were also primarily bombers not superiority fighters like X-wings. Ditto the B-wings, although the troop carrier Leia arrives on is obviously B-Wing inspired.

A little research just now says that having only X-wings and Ties was a JJ call.