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Der Helm
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Reply #350 on: February 10, 2018, 03:02:33 PM

Neelix tried to poison the crew every other day and was still free to move about the ship.  why so serious?

"I've been done enough around here..."- Signe
Khaldun
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Reply #351 on: February 10, 2018, 08:45:34 PM

I...

Ok, that's a good point.

Surlyboi
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Reply #352 on: February 11, 2018, 09:53:39 PM

Saw that end coming and it was still awesome. The closing music was key.

Tuned in, immediately get to watch cringey Ubisoft talking head offering her deepest sympathies to the families impacted by the Orlando shooting while flanked by a man in a giraffe suit and some sort of "horrifically garish neon costumes through the ages" exhibit or something.  We need to stop this fucking planet right now and sort some shit out. -Kail
satael
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Reply #353 on: February 12, 2018, 06:21:14 AM

Got to love how the plot is solved by federation giving a torturer a nuke with which to threaten a global annihilation.
Der Helm
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Reply #354 on: February 12, 2018, 02:32:26 PM

Yeah, I am pretty "meh" on the finale as well. Ohhhhh, I see.

"I've been done enough around here..."- Signe
Surlyboi
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eat a bag of dicks


Reply #355 on: February 12, 2018, 04:02:58 PM

Got to love how the plot is solved by federation giving a torturer a nuke with which to threaten a global annihilation.

But was she actually a torturer, given what we now know about Tyler?

Tuned in, immediately get to watch cringey Ubisoft talking head offering her deepest sympathies to the families impacted by the Orlando shooting while flanked by a man in a giraffe suit and some sort of "horrifically garish neon costumes through the ages" exhibit or something.  We need to stop this fucking planet right now and sort some shit out. -Kail
eldaec
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Reply #356 on: February 13, 2018, 08:57:53 AM

I thought the finale was fine.

If I have any complaint it is that it was a bit too vanilla "star trek" and not very "discovery". Without Lorca it feels like the show is waiting for someone else to drive the threat/uncertainty. Evil Michele Yeoh didn't seem likely to get away with much.

Pardoning Burnham seemed a bit odd in that it discards the limited pov and status outside the system that she had as a mere specialist. But to be fair given the shit the TOS crew got away with and points above about people on specific ships, maybe it is inevitable.

Given that choice it now feels inevitable that she will eventually be captain. This feels a bit cheap - but given how bad the whole show looked after the early episodes it is hard to complain much.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2018, 09:10:07 AM by eldaec »

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Khaldun
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Reply #357 on: February 13, 2018, 10:42:06 AM

There's a significant problem with pacing when you look at the whole season--the wrap-up on the Klingons was pretty rough. I also think there's an interesting question about just how many people were in on the plan to destroy Kronos--if it's most of Starfleet Command, then that should be a continuing plot point going forward (and it makes you wonder whether pardoning Burnham is an attempt to buy her silence about it).

The fact that top command makes you the most likely person to fail to live up to the Federation's values is such a persistent theme across all Trek that I think that it might almost be time to build in some form of conscious, non-ironic attention to it. One thing that no Trek has paid much attention to is the specifics of how the Federation government and Starfleet relate. If you think about democratic militaries between 1950 and 2016, generally there's two ways that some of the core ethical propositions they are supposed to follow get breached. First is because the top brass and some of the civilian government agree to circumvent those commitments. It's really rare for command staff to decide on their own to do something that has a major chance of having serious political consequences, even in the middle of wars. Douglas MacArthur might be one of the few examples of a general who was inclined to make major decisions independently from civilian authority and it's why he got reigned in. The second is because the rank-and-file commit atrocities or otherwise engage in serious misconduct. The brass may know about it, they may even countenance it or be implicitly ordering it, but frequently this is soldiers in the field simply deciding to do whatever they are doing.

In Trek, partly because the shows are always biased towards the adventures of the Starfleet rank-and-file (or at least the unit commanders of the rank-and-file), ordinary Starfleet crews are rarely shown as strongly breaching Federation regulations or ethics. When they do, as with the Prime Directive, it's usually in a forgiveable way that reflects a genuine, difficult ethical challenge. Sometimes we get the "crazy captain" subspecies of the "crazy admiral", but I'm hard-pressed to think of a "crazy crew" where it's the crew that initiated serious misconduct.

When it's admirals who are not crazy per se but instead are doing 'rationally' unethical things, Trek never makes clear whether the civilian government is in on the decision. The season finale of Discovery might be the first time we get affirmation that at least some parts of the civilian government are completely involved, e.g., Sarek is part of the decision. Given that this is the 'classic' timeline, I don't think you can get a house-cleaning of the Starfleet and Federation leadership in Discovery, there were a lot of bad admirals in Kirk's time as captain (both before and after his own service as admiral). But I really would kind of enjoy it if the series would tackle the whole issue head on in some way.
Surlyboi
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Reply #358 on: February 13, 2018, 10:48:42 AM

Didn't DS9 do that a bit with all the Section 31 stuff?

Tuned in, immediately get to watch cringey Ubisoft talking head offering her deepest sympathies to the families impacted by the Orlando shooting while flanked by a man in a giraffe suit and some sort of "horrifically garish neon costumes through the ages" exhibit or something.  We need to stop this fucking planet right now and sort some shit out. -Kail
Khaldun
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Reply #359 on: February 13, 2018, 12:27:12 PM

A bit. DS9 also finally showed some sympathy for trespassing ethical boundaries, and stopped structuring plots around "The Captain gets to give a speech about why we don't do things like that after kicking the Evil Admiral's ass". Though Voyager incomprehensibly went right back to that with a premise that should have demanded abandoning it.
Gimfain
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Reply #360 on: February 13, 2018, 01:45:57 PM

The build up during the episode felt mediocre and I hated the ending. It should have been a double episode finale, this one was rushed.

When you ask for a miracle, you have to be prepared to believe in it or you'll miss it when it comes
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