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MahrinSkel
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Reply #35 on: November 22, 2015, 05:51:34 PM

Mahrin, given how you vape you may want to look into the Pax Juul.
5% is a little strong even for me, and getting locked into a disposable cartomizer system is the opposite of what I want.

--Dave

--Jello Biafra: "If evolution is outlawed, only outlaws will evolve."
schild
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Reply #36 on: November 23, 2015, 12:18:36 PM

Mahrin, given how you vape you may want to look into the Pax Juul.
5% is a little strong even for me, and getting locked into a disposable cartomizer system is the opposite of what I want.

--Dave
You can refill them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7o-Sm5zuTc

Edit: Please don't get 50mg all over your hands, k.
Furiously
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Reply #37 on: December 18, 2015, 01:31:52 AM

So, my wife asked about what I was doing to prevent popcorn lung from vaping, as she got some scare email from someone at her school....I told her I wasn't smoking vegetable oil instead of vegetable glycerin. Gotta love people who are idiots and decide to DIY..

schild
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Reply #38 on: December 18, 2015, 07:49:35 AM

Did you ask her what she was doing to promote truth in media? /snarl

Edit: Also, wait, what? Vegetable oil? What horseshit got sent around now?
« Last Edit: December 18, 2015, 08:17:46 AM by schild »
MahrinSkel
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Reply #39 on: December 19, 2015, 11:42:46 AM

It's diacetyl, which is used to make flavorings taste 'buttery'. The reason I tell everyone to stay away from anything butter flavored, we've known it was a bad thing to use for flavors since 2009. Apparently some juice makers didn't get the word, as they were able to find 51 butter flavored juices to test, 49 turned out to have diacetyl in them.

Don't think anyone has actually reported getting popcorn lung from vaping yet, but it was good for some really scary FUD.

--Dave

Edit: Wikipedia article on the disease. Actually named "Popcorn Workers Lung" because it first showed up in workers that were making microwave popcorn, appears they (whoever is actually behind this bit of black PR) altered the name to make it even scarier. As you'd expect, it appears that it takes extremely high levels of exposure to create the condition, something they don't mention in the articles.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2015, 11:49:25 AM by MahrinSkel »

--Jello Biafra: "If evolution is outlawed, only outlaws will evolve."
schild
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Reply #40 on: December 19, 2015, 02:55:52 PM

No one likely to get broncholitis obliterans from vaping. Shit shows up in cigarettes at hundreds of times the levels of vaping. There's a piss poor strawman argument saying COPD covered popcorn lung, but it doesn't. It's a different thing altogether. Not to mention a total of eight workers, working with both the powdered substance and liquid substance, developed it. ON TOP OF THAT, we don't know if those workers smoked or what other conditions they worked under.

The worst thing you can do for vaping is promote fear. Fear based on awful reporting from Harvard, whoever. It's horseshit. Top to bottom.

Telling people to stay away from diacetyl because some horseshit happened with the equivalent to flavor coal miners is absurd at best.

Everyone needs to stop being an asshole.
MahrinSkel
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Reply #41 on: December 19, 2015, 09:13:19 PM

Diacetyl has some nasty carcinogenic breakdown products, at temperatures in the normal range for vaping. Not as bad as the formadehydes you get from scorched VG, but still not good and almost certain to be prohibited by the FDA even if they merely do their job (instead of being Big Tobaccos bagmen).

--Dave

--Jello Biafra: "If evolution is outlawed, only outlaws will evolve."
schild
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Reply #42 on: December 19, 2015, 09:34:54 PM

Not as bad as the formadehydes you get from scorched VG

And with this, I'm leaving this line of conversation.
MahrinSkel
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Reply #43 on: December 19, 2015, 10:20:19 PM

Not as bad as the formadehydes you get from scorched VG

And with this, I'm leaving this line of conversation.
What? It's not pure FUD, it does happen, just at temperatures far higher than anyone would actually run a rig at (because that shit rips your throat raw).

You've been too immersed in the FUD storm, dude. There's a thin thread of actual truth being misrepresented, you can't just dismiss it out of hand or it looks like you're as careless about consumer safety as they are trying to paint.

These guys are the original masters of FUD science, turned to black PR.

--Dave

--Jello Biafra: "If evolution is outlawed, only outlaws will evolve."
Slayerik
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Reply #44 on: February 17, 2016, 08:32:46 AM

So, after about a year of trying to quit smoking (my GF hates the smell/taste) I decided to try out the VUSE e-cig stuff from RJ Reynolds. It just happened to be in a gas station, I did no real research on anything...just went for it. I like it well enough that I will probably never go back to smoking, but I'm sure I'm getting raped on the cost of them. Any advice on a more cost effective beginning vaper setup? Long ago Nerf sent me some stuff in a trade for some Eve online shit, I think.... but that's lost and would have been very old anyway. I remember it being pretty harsh on my throat, though.

"I have more qualifications than Jesus and earn more than this whole board put together.  My ego is huge and my modesty non-existant." -Ironwood
Pennilenko
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Reply #45 on: February 17, 2016, 08:46:19 AM

So, after about a year of trying to quit smoking (my GF hates the smell/taste) I decided to try out the VUSE e-cig stuff from RJ Reynolds. It just happened to be in a gas station, I did no real research on anything...just went for it. I like it well enough that I will probably never go back to smoking, but I'm sure I'm getting raped on the cost of them. Any advice on a more cost effective beginning vaper setup? Long ago Nerf sent me some stuff in a trade for some Eve online shit, I think.... but that's lost and would have been very old anyway. I remember it being pretty harsh on my throat, though.

This
http://www.kangeronline.com/products/kanger-subox-mini-starter-kit?variant=1902068484 Where ever you can get it for the best price.
Add
http://www.kangeronline.com/products/kanger-stainless-steel-organic-cotton-coil?variant=9185586373 Also where ever the price is cheapest.

Then buy which ever flavor juice interests you, I suggest starting around 6mg nicotine. Move up or down on nicotine based on harshness or desired feeling. Although I really think 6mg in that rig is perfect.

Set the power on the subbox to 25w, then adjust up or down in small increments till you get the right throat feel, although you probably wont need to adjust it.

Edit: If somebody talks you into the usual starter pen style tanks and cheap batteries you will end up upgrading to something like I listed over time anyways, so might as well start with the decent stuff and save yourself the money on the cheap crap most people start with.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2016, 08:49:55 AM by Pennilenko »

"See?  All of you are unique.  And special.  Like fucking snowflakes."  -- Signe
carnifex27
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Reply #46 on: February 17, 2016, 09:18:57 AM

That's a great setup Pennilenko posted and is what I am currently using. There are a few things I would point out that a newcomer to vaping probably needs to hear with using this kit though. First off make sure you are buying and using the 0.5 ohm coils if you're vaping at 25w. The starter kit comes with one 0.5 ohm coil and one higher, I believe it is 1.5, but it might be a 2 ohm coil. You will hate life if you pop a high ohm coil in at 25w. I would also strongly suggest saturating the coil with juice and then letting it sit for five minutes or so any time you put a new coil in. I find if I don't do this I get really dry hits at first and sometimes burn out the coil very quickly.

Also the kit doesn't come with batteries. You'll need 18650 rechargeable batteries and a charger for them, I'd recommend something like this:
http://www.amazon.com/Intsun%C2%AE-4000mah-Rechargeable-Flashlight-Headlamps/dp/B00MTFEBCW/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1455725629&sr=8-4&keywords=18650+rechargeable+batteries
The higher the mAh, the longer the battery lasts between charges.
Engels
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Reply #47 on: February 17, 2016, 11:13:52 AM

I have a Subbox mini and 25 watts seems excessive. I use mine at 14 watts on a .5 ohm coil. I don't like hot vapor, tho, which I hear is rare. My only caveat with the subbox mini is that the RBA (rebuildable atomizer), while moderately easy to work with for RBAs, is a bit of a fiddly for someone just starting out. If you don't get the cotton in there right it piddles all over the place like a newborn puppy.

I would also suggest an Ego One http://www.joyetech.com/product/ego-one/ Its not as expensive and is highly portable, which I find is a must for a new 'quitter'. The coils are fairly cheap and easy to find.

I should get back to nature, too.  You know, like going to a shop for groceries instead of the computer.  Maybe a condo in the woods that doesn't even have a health club or restaurant attached.  Buy a car with only two cup holders or something.

-Signe

I LIKE being bounced around by Tonkors. - Lantyssa

"let go of my dick you mother fucker!"  - Jimbo
schild
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Reply #48 on: February 17, 2016, 05:17:40 PM

The power ratings on the Subox are really iffy at best - at 14 watts it SHOULD barely be firing the .5 ohm vertical coils. I recommend a Kanger Top Tank (which is just an easier to refill Subtank), SSOCC Kanger .5 ohm coils, and a Vape Forward Stout (26650 batteries are best batteries - eFest Dark Purple 4200 mah are a good place to start - imrbatteries.com).
Engels
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Reply #49 on: February 17, 2016, 05:53:14 PM

Schild, now often do you have to replace these SSOCC Kanger .5 ohm coils? Maybe I should switch to these prebuilt coils rather than doing the cotton RBA thing that often leaks. I take it that they are compatible with a 'regular' subbox mini)

I should get back to nature, too.  You know, like going to a shop for groceries instead of the computer.  Maybe a condo in the woods that doesn't even have a health club or restaurant attached.  Buy a car with only two cup holders or something.

-Signe

I LIKE being bounced around by Tonkors. - Lantyssa

"let go of my dick you mother fucker!"  - Jimbo
schild
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Reply #50 on: February 17, 2016, 06:23:08 PM

Depends on the juice (amount of sweetener or ethyl maltol, etc), how much you vape, and what wattage. I run .5s at between 28.5 and 30.5 on DNA devices, around 29w on SX350/330/350j devices. I get between 2 and about 7 days.

I never build my own coils on chinese atties. They're basically universally garbage. Prebuilt is 100% worth it if you don't mind spending the coin.
Furiously
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Reply #51 on: May 05, 2016, 04:04:26 PM

So basically we have two years to enjoy ecigs now?

schild
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Reply #52 on: May 05, 2016, 06:44:39 PM

2 years, 2 months, 29 days. But yeah. It's a bit of a mess at the moment.

And everything after the first 89 days is frozen, there won't be new product.
Furiously
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Reply #53 on: May 05, 2016, 08:48:25 PM

Nows the time for "Opps All Berries!"

angry.bob
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Reply #54 on: May 05, 2016, 11:18:37 PM

Not as bad as the formadehydes you get from scorched VG

And with this, I'm leaving this line of conversation.
What? It's not pure FUD, it does happen, just at temperatures far higher than anyone would actually run a rig at (because that shit rips your throat raw).

You've been too immersed in the FUD storm, dude. There's a thin thread of actual truth being misrepresented, you can't just dismiss it out of hand or it looks like you're as careless about consumer safety as they are trying to paint.

These guys are the original masters of FUD science, turned to black PR.

--Dave

I don't know any of what's been said around the vaping scene regarding health risks since I don't care, but as more and more data becomes available vaping appears to be only marginally better for your health than smoking, and even then pretty much only your lungs since you're not inhaling actual smoke.

Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muß man schweigen.
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Reply #55 on: May 05, 2016, 11:21:30 PM

Oh fuck off. All you know is the tiny bit of shit that leaked into your general vicinity.
angry.bob
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Reply #56 on: May 06, 2016, 04:23:21 AM

You're being very cranky the last day. You're welcome to be as angry and snappy at me as you want but that doesn't change any part of the reality.

Did you open up a vaping shop or something?

Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muß man schweigen.
Merusk
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Reply #57 on: May 06, 2016, 04:51:35 AM

He's been making a living off of vaping for the last 3-4 years. According to some other stuff he's said, he's "the guy" when it comes to some segment or another. I don't follow enough to know details.

I imagine he's ultra cranky after the FDA announced they'll be legislating Vaping and Cigars the same as cigarettes yesterday afternoon. I half expected to hear him on NPR during the piece.

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Yegolev
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Reply #58 on: May 06, 2016, 05:27:11 AM

Based on real-world observations, vaping is far less unhealthy than smoke inhalation.  I don't have any further comments on this that are not already obvious to most people.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
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Paelos
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Reply #59 on: May 06, 2016, 06:56:39 AM

He's been making a living off of vaping for the last 3-4 years. According to some other stuff he's said, he's "the guy" when it comes to some segment or another. I don't follow enough to know details.

I imagine he's ultra cranky after the FDA announced they'll be legislating Vaping and Cigars the same as cigarettes yesterday afternoon. I half expected to hear him on NPR during the piece.

I saw the reports and immediately thought about schild. It was also a matter of time, because the government always steps in on stuff like this. Or daily fantasy, or liquor, or anything they think is fun.

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Merusk
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Reply #60 on: May 06, 2016, 07:39:07 AM

Yep. Fun = profit.

Profit = more lines of tax revenue.

If we were a bit saner as a nation we'd just pay via a lump sum from wages & investment incomes vs. the million papercuts of the current system. But that's wayyy off topic.

I can't get past the panties - Alluvian
I really like the cocks. - Lantyssa
People rarely believe just how good I am at sucking. - Lantyssa
I love the swinging dongs - Signe
angry.bob
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Reply #61 on: May 06, 2016, 08:27:47 AM

Based on real-world observations, vaping is far less unhealthy than smoke inhalation.  I don't have any further comments on this that are not already obvious to most people.

I'm curious what those are. I'm only going by my monthly meeting with the county public health department, weekly meetings with the ADM board, and peer reviewed journal articles.

With the increase over the past decade in alternate nicotine delivery systems more studies have been being done on the effects of nicotine by itself. Previous belief was that nicotine alone was addictive, but it was the byproducts of cigarette combustion and the crap in tobacco that caused the actual health problems. Advances in medicine, science, and increased research are indicating that the nicotine itself has significant effects on acetylcholine receptors and activating genes that can cause cancer and suppressing ones that can prevent it. I'm sure I don't have a perfect understanding of some of the high level studies, maybe Nebu can add something is what I've said is incorrect.

Is it less unhealthy than smoking? Sure. By how much? No one actually knows yet. this hasn't been studied for very long yet, and cancers aren't like studying a bacterial disease. But that's not saying a whole lot that something is less unhealthy than one of most unhealthy things you can do that doesn't outright kill you.

As far as this making his living off of vaping, sorry that he's being effected.

Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muß man schweigen.
schild
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Reply #62 on: May 06, 2016, 09:06:04 AM

Bob, given the complete lack of meaningful peer reviewed studies without a political or financial agenda, I imagine what you know could fit in the dimple of a thimble.

I'm not gonna sit hear and pretend it's safer than breathing air, unless we're in Shanghai or Mexico City or Alberta, but what's happening is the FDA has decided that any product on the market post 02/15/2007 needs to go through a process to determine its as safe if not safer than cigarettes.

Think about that. I have to prove that my products are safer than what is likely the most unsafe recreationally legal thing EVER CREATED.

So yea, I'm fucking sour. So fuck off with your layman fucking worthless knowledge of the market you little monkey.
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Reply #63 on: May 06, 2016, 09:12:39 AM

If the observations are what was requested, it basically amounts to obvious health improvements of close friends who were able to quit the cancer sticks via nicotine vaporizers.  In less than a month, even.

Studies on the safety of nicotine are as likely to be objective as studies on the safety of corn products.  So, I'll ignore that shit while I sit content in what I've observed with my own eyes.  Also my own lungs.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
They called it The Prayer, its answer was law
Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
Nebu
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Reply #64 on: May 06, 2016, 09:47:00 AM

This is a little old, but it's a place to start the discussion.  Vaping and Health

Bob, given the complete lack of meaningful peer reviewed studies without a political or financial agenda, I imagine what you know could fit in the dimple of a thimble.

There are actually quite a solid number of peer reviewed studies.  They're just in journals that most people don't have access to.  Go to pub med (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed) and search for yourself.  Keep in mind that research takes time to conduct and publish.  We're still in the infancy of this research.

Here is a good quote to express how scientists and physicians currently feel as a consensus

Quote
Although researchers are still waiting on data about long-term health effects from e-cigarettes, Crotty Alexander has begun to provide some advice on the devices to her patients. “I don’t like to use the word ‘safe’ with e-cigarettes,” she says, “but I do tell my patients that they might be better off if they switched from regular cigarettes to e-cigarettes.”
« Last Edit: May 06, 2016, 09:48:37 AM by Nebu »

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-  Mark Twain
angry.bob
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Reply #65 on: May 06, 2016, 09:57:19 AM

If the observations are what was requested, it basically amounts to obvious health improvements of close friends who were able to quit the cancer sticks via nicotine vaporizers.  In less than a month, even.

Studies on the safety of nicotine are as likely to be objective as studies on the safety of corn products.  So, I'll ignore that shit while I sit content in what I've observed with my own eyes.  Also my own lungs.

Yeah, of course you're going to see and feel almost immediate health improvements switching from cigarettes to vaping, you're not inhaling smoke anymore. So you're not going to have the effects of inhaling smoke anymore. But you're still getting the nicotine. I'm not even factoring in whatever the fluid is or if any part of it is made in China or not. But not having the short term effects of smoke inhalation is not the same as not having long term effects from the nicotine. I don't know what else to tell you. Less unhealthy than smoking? Sure. By how much? Who knows, and watching your friends or how you feel for the last year is no real indication. But at least you don't have the problems breathing smoke causes.

So fuck off with your layman fucking worthless knowledge of the market you little monkey.
Look, I'm sorry that the market aspect of this is causing you grief. I don't know or care about the "market" and hobby side of it. If you're on the hardware side of things, I don't think the FDA should be involved in that part at all, though the FDA is in charge of regulating respiratory humidifiers as far as I know. The fluid side is a different matter. Nicotine is one of the most addictive things on the planet and the vapor is being drawn straight into the lungs, an organ that's super easy to fuck up. I don't know what testing processes your product has to go through, but they're probably way too expensive and comprehensive if the purpose is just to make sure it's safer than cigarettes. Honestly, just having paperwork that the ingredients are safe for human consumption should be enough.

But okay, I'll fuck right off with my layman fucking worthless knowledge of the market and my equally worthless license and education as an addictive substance detox nurse.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2016, 09:59:56 AM by angry.bob »

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Reply #66 on: May 06, 2016, 12:12:03 PM

Nicotine aside, the worst thing would be the flavoring.  That's a varied landscape.  Don't get anything that is butter-flavored.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
They called it The Prayer, its answer was law
Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
schild
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Reply #67 on: May 06, 2016, 12:19:01 PM

God, even the butter flavoring issue is up for debate, given that cigarettes had many, many times the amount of diacetyl etc.

But regardless, I don't care about having this debate here considering I'm having it everywhere else.
Nebu
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Reply #68 on: May 06, 2016, 12:27:06 PM

God, even the butter flavoring issue is up for debate, given that cigarettes had many, many times the amount of diacetyl etc.

But regardless, I don't care about having this debate here considering I'm having it everywhere else.

Embrace the debate.  Vaping is an improved drug-delivery vehicle.   Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

Claiming that it is better is correct.  By your own admission about the lack of available studies, we can't claim that it is 'safe' until more research data comes in.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
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Reply #69 on: May 06, 2016, 01:16:17 PM

The people I know are no longer burning any leaves for anything.  Which I feel is an improvement.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
They called it The Prayer, its answer was law
Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
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