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schild
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on: October 16, 2015, 09:57:19 PM

This thread assumes states/countries magically stop being shitheels and the FDA gets its head right outta its ass (they won't and it won't but whatever).

We are now in an age of integrated batteries, regulated voltage/wattage, temp control (if you like that horseshit) and a world of different atomizer options. Things are not what they were 2 years ago or even a year ago. On the chip front you have several viable choices: SX (Yihiecigar products - sx350j, sx350, sx130h, sx350 mini, etc), DNA (Evolv - DNA200, DNA40, DNA30, DNA25), some italian weirdness (the AULUS), the US-Based Mosaic from Mankos, the dicodes out of Germany, and finally the Starplat from Russia.

I'm going to keep my opinion on this simple: I use SX devices and prefer them - specifically the SX350. It's power curve and delivery shames nearly everything else on the market. The DNA200 is an excellent chip, but the forced requirement of LIPOs or 2x 18650s to get anything about it really hampers it in the short term. "But lipos are safer!" Bah. Fuckoff, you don't know shit about batteries or the small batch modders or Chinese kids handling this crap, and neither do I. Especially when it comes to burst firing 200 watts on some absurd 22 gauge Kanthal coil on some sort of cloud chucker nonsense.

As far as atties go - China has a lock on the market. There's a handful of tanks (Hurricane, Ubertoot) that are decent, mostly just a hybrid of the Kayfun and Taifun GT of yore. But they're mostly just pretending to be worthwhile. There are some great drippers on the market, especially the M-Atty from MEB Mods and the upcoming dripper from Matthew Eaton. But for the most part (and to most of the public), there's the unwashed Chinese 3-post garbage that's being pumped out in infinite quantities every week.

In terms of Chinese tanks - I still stand by the Aspire Atlantis. The original design with either the Playboy coils or the Atlantis .5 coils (again, the OCC variant of the originals). They really knocked it out of the park the first time out. Otherwise, I'm a fan of the Kanger Subtank.

Anyway, I'm starting this thread so you can ask me questions. Juice, atties, mods, whatever, I can probably answer it. I live in this culture now, often to my chagrin, so I'm intimately familiar with fucking everything about it. Hell, if you want something weird, I can probably find it for you, and if not, one of my stores or distributors almost certainly can.

So, I guess, ask me anything.

MahrinSkel
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Reply #1 on: October 16, 2015, 10:12:55 PM

Where were you with this thread a week ago? I just shelled out for a new set of rigs, a Ola X Hero 30 (stainless) and a E-LVT 2.0 (solid hunk of zinc you can run over with a truck, literally, with an integrated silicone outer body). Went with a couple of Subtanks on your recommendation (and a grab bag of different coils, as well as a pack of RBA's). Subtank Plus/V2, I know it's freaking huge (25mm) but so are both of those rigs.

Still have a bunch of iClear30 cores to work my way through, I'll probably use the Subtanks with the Ola, and use up the iClears with the E-LVT at home (for some reason, I can not train myself to keep track of where I put my rig when I'm at home, constantly having it hit the floor). I thought about a couple of the LiPo based models (LiPo is just a better chemistry, safer and much more tolerant of high-C applications), may still pick up a mini-iStick for stealth use. But in general I dislike integrated, unchangeable batteries in any device that I might want to use a few years down the line. I had to fire up the old Vamo V5 the other day, when I couldn't find my ZNA50 or V6, it's almost three years old and would have been in brick mode with an integrated battery.

Now, tell me how I wasted my money.

--Dave (spoilering images for bigness)

« Last Edit: October 16, 2015, 10:18:01 PM by MahrinSkel »

--Jello Biafra: "If evolution is outlawed, only outlaws will evolve."
schild
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Reply #2 on: October 16, 2015, 10:27:09 PM

Quote
Where were you with this thread a week ago?

I was at Vape Summit in Houston protecting my crown. I'll read through this in bed. I didn't expect a response til morning.
schild
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Reply #3 on: October 16, 2015, 10:55:23 PM

Any subtank is fine. The mods are whatever. If I was buying a "cheap" mod today right now it would be the IPV D2. Unfortunately China has yet to discover the 26650 form factor.
MahrinSkel
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Reply #4 on: October 16, 2015, 11:16:01 PM

Looks like there are a few 26650-based regulated models on FastTech, ignoring the tube models (which are mostly just a standard 18650 tube mod with a bigger battery tube grafted on) there's the the Athena Smart 60, which looks like an over-stuffed version of a fistpack mod, and the Vippo 70, which is your basic brick.

But I don't do sub-ohm, even when setting up dual coils on an RBA I start with 2.4ohm welded wires. If you don't need to draw more than 3-4 amps, a single 18650 is plenty.

--Dave

EDIT: One thing I do like is that usb-cable charging is becoming standard, so you only need to change the battery if you let it drain all the way, or it wears out.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2015, 11:19:33 PM by MahrinSkel »

--Jello Biafra: "If evolution is outlawed, only outlaws will evolve."
schild
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Reply #5 on: October 17, 2015, 10:50:43 AM

Unfortunately, with something like a 26650 battery, you want something that has fantastic power delivery, which would wreck the battery life in most cases, but you can abuse the battery life of something like this: https://www.imrbatteries.com/efest-imr-26650-4200mah-40a-60a-3-7v-rechargeable-flat-top-battery/

Here's a readily available mod, which while a bit on the pricey side and not exactly small, is exactly the chip you want paired with a 26650: http://www.thefridaymorning.com/mustang-j2-60w/

The big issue with China isn't the construction these days, but rather their lack of access to the official SX350J and DNA200. Also they have absolutely no access to the AULUS or Dicodes. Hell, I don't even have access to those yet, but I will soon \_(ツ)_/

All of that aside, I remember you saying you vaped pretty high MG. That's an option. But then, vaping low mg low ohms in something that basically huffs liquid is also an option. Below is one of my mods. It is a DNA40 single 18650 that I run a subtank on (Kanger) and get about 4-5 hours battery life at 28.0 watts. This is roughly the size of an IPV D2, except the D2 has a different chip (who knows what chip). Anyway, I can't recommend this sort of setup enough.

schild
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Reply #6 on: October 17, 2015, 10:51:33 AM

Also, don't buy tanks and coils from Fasttech. I know you're trying to be budget or whatthefuckever, but China is still not to be trusted when it comes to putting things in your mouthhole.
MahrinSkel
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Reply #7 on: October 17, 2015, 11:38:44 AM

I'd rather buy 'Authentic' cores from FastTech (which does a pretty good job of verifying their sources on those) than buy from a US vendor that may be doubling up their profits by passing off knockoffs (as far as I know, nobody in the US is manufacturing cores for anything). But I get your concerns, it's an issue for the same reasons I buy my juice from US vendors, and why I'm going to go ahead and trying my hand at winding my own with a set of RBA cores for the Subtank.

And yeah, I'm still running at 25 mg (about 20 after flavors). I would probably die of a heart attack at 30 watts.

--Dave

--Jello Biafra: "If evolution is outlawed, only outlaws will evolve."
schild
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Reply #8 on: October 17, 2015, 11:44:32 AM

Quote
And yeah, I'm still running at 25 mg (about 20 after flavors). I would probably die of a heart attack at 30 watts.

You're insane.
MahrinSkel
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Reply #9 on: October 17, 2015, 11:53:12 AM

Quote
And yeah, I'm still running at 25 mg (about 20 after flavors). I would probably die of a heart attack at 30 watts.

You're insane.


Seriously, it works for me. Makes it a lot easier to vape in places that technically have policies against it (like my classes), if I am not blowing a cloud that immerses the entire row in a fog bank the instructors generally just ignore it. Being able to go most of a day on 3ml and a day and a half on a battery doesn't hurt my feelings, either. At 8-9.5 watts, I'm probably getting about the same nicotine per puff as you are.

--Dave

--Jello Biafra: "If evolution is outlawed, only outlaws will evolve."
schild
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Reply #10 on: October 17, 2015, 11:55:52 AM

There's no part of 25mg that isn't crazy to me. And oh god the taste. Like huffing black pepper.
MahrinSkel
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Reply #11 on: October 17, 2015, 12:01:14 PM

There's no part of 25mg that isn't crazy to me. And oh god the taste. Like huffing black pepper.
Says the man who is still licking ashtrays with tobacco flavors. I kind of like that 'zing!', the way that coffee drinkers find that just the taste of of coffee makes them perk up. I'm not taking direct lung hits huffer style, I go mouth to lung like I am dragging on a real cig. So it's not an issue.

--Dave

--Jello Biafra: "If evolution is outlawed, only outlaws will evolve."
schild
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Reply #12 on: October 17, 2015, 12:02:43 PM

There's no part of 25mg that isn't crazy to me. And oh god the taste. Like huffing black pepper.
Says the man who is still licking ashtrays with tobacco flavors.

ಠ_ಠ

I hate tobacco, Screwbacco is just special and was sitting next to me. It's absurdly good. Possibly one of the best juices I've ever had. And given I don't pay for juice, from anybody, that's pretty high praise.
MahrinSkel
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Reply #13 on: October 17, 2015, 06:22:14 PM

Given that I derailed this thread into me and you sniping over flavor vs. function, how about I play interlocutor properly and ask a question: What's up with the chip variants? I know 'rattle' from low-hertz PWM is an issue, but I really have no idea beyond that.

--Dave

--Jello Biafra: "If evolution is outlawed, only outlaws will evolve."
schild
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Reply #14 on: October 17, 2015, 11:58:05 PM

You know, the biggest difference between chips only really reveals itself (in practical application) through coil longevity, flavor, and battery life. The SX350 had/has marginally less battery life than a DNA40, due to how it ramps up to the wattage you've set, for example. Of course, by nuking that ramp up time, the SX350 also plain old makes shit taste better, because it's not slowly boiling your juice.

I don't have enough experience with the weird new chips (yet), but I've got about 35 mods all with various forms of Evolv and Yihiecigar product in them. While the Yihi are all using inferior pretty garbage Chinese parts, their means of delivering power and software behind them is simply better. Well, better than everything other than the DNA200 which gives you control over all this shit - and has a whole new set of problems (like really requiring a 3 cell Lipo to be useful at all).
vos
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Reply #15 on: October 22, 2015, 09:25:26 PM

I started vaping in July, and based on your recommendation went with the Kanger Subox Mini. I was a pack-pack and a half a day smoker for 20 years. I bought my subox at 11am that day, had one more smoke, and haven't been tempted one time since to smoke again. I vape 1 tank of 2-3mg 70/80 vg juice on a .5 vertical coil a day. After 4 months my kanger is showing some signs of heavy use. The finish is chipping off around the bottom, but this is cosmetic and not a problem for me. The tank glass has a tiny chip in it near the seal, that doesn't leak. I know this can be fixed with a $4-5 new piece of plastic. However the big problem I have is that the front usb port has become loose and frequently the  cable will pop out and stop charging if it is bumped at all and passthru mode is no longer viable.

I've started looking at the various mod boxes, but there's a ton of them to go through. I'm happy with the kanger atomizers and will likely go with another subtank, but have no idea what mod I should go for. I don't mind spending $200 bucks for something more industrial that will last a long time. The other option I guess is just buying a kbox every 6 months. (oh and I vape mostly fruity flavors if it matters, who would of thought that after 20 years of smoking what I really wanted to do was smoke jolly ranchers)
schild
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Reply #16 on: October 22, 2015, 11:21:56 PM

I started vaping in July, and based on your recommendation went with the Kanger Subox Mini. I was a pack-pack and a half a day smoker for 20 years. I bought my subox at 11am that day, had one more smoke, and haven't been tempted one time since to smoke again. I vape 1 tank of 2-3mg 70/80 vg juice on a .5 vertical coil a day. After 4 months my kanger is showing some signs of heavy use. The finish is chipping off around the bottom, but this is cosmetic and not a problem for me. The tank glass has a tiny chip in it near the seal, that doesn't leak. I know this can be fixed with a $4-5 new piece of plastic. However the big problem I have is that the front usb port has become loose and frequently the  cable will pop out and stop charging if it is bumped at all and passthru mode is no longer viable.

I've started looking at the various mod boxes, but there's a ton of them to go through. I'm happy with the kanger atomizers and will likely go with another subtank, but have no idea what mod I should go for. I don't mind spending $200 bucks for something more industrial that will last a long time. The other option I guess is just buying a kbox every 6 months. (oh and I vape mostly fruity flavors if it matters, who would of thought that after 20 years of smoking what I really wanted to do was smoke jolly ranchers)

I like this post and will respond to it tomorrow.

And yea, vaping candy is the shit. *huffs lemonbar*
schild
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Reply #17 on: October 23, 2015, 09:27:06 AM

Kanger is kind of the current standard for tanks. There are other options out there I like more, but they require absurd power to drive. The CCI Triforce is a shockingly good tank, but even on the .5 coil you have to shove 80 watts into it, which requires both specific gear and sucks the shit out of a battery.

My personal favorite is still the original Aspire Atlantis but it's all but impossible to find these days, which is weird since it came out less than a year ago \_(ツ)_/

The upcoming Kanger Nebox looks swank, but honestly, the Subox is still a pretty good box. The IPV D2 uses a slightly better chip than the Subox is you're looking for a sort of parallel upgrade in the same price range. Another option would be the eSquare DNA200. You'd probably get a solid 2 days out of a single battery charge on it, but then it needs actual charging, as it uses a LiPO.

A new $50 box every 6 months isn't the worst thing ever though, if normal wear and tear is fucking it up. That's gonna happen with almost any Chinese box. If you upped your price range to $300, I could get you into a Psyclone Evo in a few months, which is going to be a seriously nice DNA200 with a fat ass battery in it. But I don't see a major reason for doing that.

The only upside to a DNA200 is you can fire literally any atty you pick up.

In short, no reason to change what you're doing, but there are options out there.
MahrinSkel
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Reply #18 on: October 23, 2015, 10:00:48 AM

For a counterpoint, since I switched to "stainless or stfu", durability of my FastTech  knockoffs hasn't been an issue. Stainless is heavy, but it is also effectively indestructible.  And when I buy tanks, they are either polycarb and aluminum (disposable), or stainless and glass (and I buy spare glass and o-rings). I bought two Subtank V2's ($56) and 5 spare sets of rings and glass (added another $4-5).

You should always have a spare rig, even if it is just your old rig (and you upgraded while it still worked). Having to lick ashtrays because you broke or lost your only rig sucks.

--Dave

--Jello Biafra: "If evolution is outlawed, only outlaws will evolve."
vos
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Reply #19 on: October 24, 2015, 03:26:33 PM

Thanks for the responses. If i get great vapes out of my subox between 28-32w, what do you think about me looking for a DNA 40 with an all metal case? Would I be correct in assuming that there are going to be deals on them now that the DNA 200 is out? Also, is the Psyclone Evo better in any way than the Lavabox 200 or the Efusion DNA 200, or is it just $130 worth of bling? (300 vs 170ish) What box mod is that in your picture that has Wap Wide labeled on it? I like the wood and metal look (if that's what it is). I tried googling wap wide and couldn't figure out what that was. I'm leaning towards getting something above the $50 china box, but mostly like you said, just because I want to.


Starting a different question. is there anyone that does video reviews that's not a raving douche-bag?
« Last Edit: October 24, 2015, 03:35:25 PM by vos »
schild
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Reply #20 on: October 24, 2015, 07:08:44 PM

Oh. You don't want to fuck with a Wap Wide. Mostly because it's exorbitantly priced and nearly impossible to actually buy (from Wapari in Finland, like $850?). Anyway, Psyclone is a dude out of uhhhh I don't remember where, making an expensive (all things considered) but mass market DNA200 device using a pretty good battery and far better design than the eSquare or Lavabox. It's also going to be insanely rugged (all Stainless steel chassis, top to bottom, relatively seamless).

There's a bunch of photos here: https://www.facebook.com/PsycloneEvo

Honestly, I struggle with the idea of a "high end" vaping market, especially since the FDA/Left is about to kick us in the literal babymaker.

But once you get past the $99-$299 range, you move into the "high end." Just to give you a more wide picture of what's out there, I've pictured some mods below with their "retail price" in parentheses. And no, you don't need to point out how insane this market is, I am intimately aware.

schild
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Reply #21 on: October 28, 2015, 11:23:52 AM

In a world where the FDA fucks up literally everything, shortly before the SERIOUS shit goes into effect I will make a post here about where to buy good nicotine, flavoring, etc despite the fact it would fully undermine my business.
MahrinSkel
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Reply #22 on: October 28, 2015, 03:51:00 PM

Wizard Labs is my go-to for nicotine base liquid, either Lor Ann or Capellas for flavorings (most e-juice makers use Capellas, as they use a PG base and Lor Ann uses water). Avoid anything that is buttery flavored (makes various forms of chemical nastiness when vaporized), and skip actual natural oils unless you both know what you're doing and don't mind having to dispose of cores/coils early.

I have no clue about tobacco extracts, don't like to lick ashtrays. Anyway, the shape of the way the FDA has approached this makes it clear they're going to go after anything with sweet flavors, which apparently only children are supposed to like. We're probably going to see a framework oriented around disposable cartomizers that can be distributed and taxed like traditional cigarettes, and the only open question is just how hard they're going to clamp down on the various bits of the legacy supply chain.

My bet is that they're going to fuck all of the e-juice makers sideways, with rules that nobody but the tobacco majors can afford to comply with, that basically mean that if your juice doesn't taste like a mix of ass sweat and tobacco, you're trying to recruit children and must be punished. There will probably be a push to force it into the same tax structure as every normal 'tobacco product' (which will mean too much compliance cost for the existing suppliers). They may also put controls on nicotine base fluids, which is why I stockpiled a lifetime supply of 10%.  Unlikely they will actually prohibit importation or manufacture of all the various forms of gear, although they may push to have it classed and treated the same as drug paraphernalia.

--Dave

--Jello Biafra: "If evolution is outlawed, only outlaws will evolve."
schild
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Reply #23 on: October 28, 2015, 05:40:57 PM

There are gonna be so many loopholes that exist and lawsuits that get thrown at them before anything goes into effect that I'm not particularly concerned myself, it'll just be weird for a bit.
Furiously
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Reply #24 on: November 03, 2015, 05:39:29 PM

In my four years of vaping I've found like three juices I like. Vapor train Choo Choo crunch, andromeda from spacejam, and I just found milkman churrios. Almost everything else tastes like soap or ass to me. I need to grab a aspire but love my kanger vertical coils. They last forever.

As for the high mg at 6.5w or so. I totally get it. I used to go through a ton less juice when I did that. My body regulates my intake.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2015, 05:41:59 PM by Furiously »

schild
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Reply #25 on: November 03, 2015, 05:50:16 PM

I love Choo Choo Crunch. Was the first juice I loved, actually.

But I love Crunch (from me) more.
MahrinSkel
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Reply #26 on: November 03, 2015, 06:24:26 PM

As for the high mg at 6.5w or so. I totally get it. I used to go through a ton less juice when I did that. My body regulates my intake.
I go through less than a liter per year, I mix up a new pair of 30ml bottles every 3 weeks or so. I started back in the stone ages of vaping when there were literally no options for buying juice, for the first few weeks I had to use that nasty brown Chinese shit, then I got a little 25% from Nerf and that lasted until I could snag a big batch when Johnson Creek was dumping their 6%. Went 3 years on the 2.5 liters I made from that. Now I have literally a lifetime supply of 10% set aside, and it cost me less than 1 year of cigarettes.

I like mixing my own, playing around with different combinations, adding drops of stuff like wintergreen, clove, or amaretto. Sometimes the results are nasty, I learned the hard way that clove plus banana cream is a passible imitation of dirty gym shorts, for example.

--Dave

--Jello Biafra: "If evolution is outlawed, only outlaws will evolve."
Nerf
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Reply #27 on: November 04, 2015, 11:53:39 PM

I thought you got the straight 75mg/ml from me way back when?
I'm too lazy to make my own juice these days, hell I think I still have ~2l of 75mg/ml base in one of my cabinets.
Furiously
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Reply #28 on: November 07, 2015, 05:14:42 PM

How long does nicotine juice last in the raw state? Can I buy myself a 30 year supply and never have to worry again?

MahrinSkel
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Reply #29 on: November 07, 2015, 09:44:06 PM

How long does nicotine juice last in the raw state? Can I buy myself a 30 year supply and never have to worry again?
Depends on how it is stored, what it is suspended in, and exposure to light and oxygen. I keep my bulk base (10% Nic in Propylene Glycol) in the freezer (the -10 Fahrenheit freezer otherwise used for long term food stores, not the 20-25 degree regular freezer), and wrapped in paper as well as being sealed in heavy plastic and having been delivered in brown 500mm Boston Rounds I've never opened. My current liter or two "mix base" (unflavored 2.5% in about 30-35% vegetable glycerin) is kept in 1 liter double-sealed plastic bottles (labware rated for mild acids and solvents) and also kept in the freezer. And a 250mm squeeze bottle is kept refrigerated, although it wouldn't probably degrade much in the 3-4 months it is in use for.

I once used up a liter over the course of a year with no refrigeration without noticing any significant changes, but I didn't have the equipment for testing it. Chemists I've talked to have told me that under worst case conditions (exposure to light, vegetable glycerin, room temperature storage, constant replacement of fresh air) that nicotine could degrade by half over the course of a year, but stored the way I do they would be surprised if it lost more than a tenth of its potency over 20 years.

Vegetable glycerin at room temperature has potential bacterial issues, PG is more stable and biologically inactive. Nicotine itself is vulnerable to light and oxygen. Lower temperatures stop the bacterial factors and slow the chemical ones. If I were being super cautious I might repack the base liquid to eliminate all air in the bottles, but I think I am better off leaving it sealed.

--Dave

Edit: I also have big "POISON" labels on all of this, with the relevant concentration and dates noted. In addition to having three layers of plastic sealing, the kids old enough to find their way to the bottom of the meat freezer have had it explained to them exactly why they should leave it alone. But access by children, especially to high-strength liquid (lethal dose of nicotine for an adult is around 120mg) is definitely something you need to watch out for.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2015, 09:54:43 PM by MahrinSkel »

--Jello Biafra: "If evolution is outlawed, only outlaws will evolve."
Furiously
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Reply #30 on: November 07, 2015, 10:02:57 PM

So it sounds like the solution is to have you store my potential 30 year supply... :P

schild
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Reply #31 on: November 07, 2015, 11:23:41 PM

So, worse case deeming regs go through the way they were proposed.

It'll still be possible to buy all the disparate parts and make it yourself. They can't regulate that. And with a few laboratories beginning to get it from eggplant and tomato, you're pretty much peachy.

It's gonna be more important - assuming again, FDA regs stay the same - to stock up on coils and coil building supplies if that's your jam.

I've been ordering hundreds on hundreds of coils lately. But not because of the FDA regs, rather - if I like an atty and that company freaks the fuck out and closes down, I want to have my coils.
MahrinSkel
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Reply #32 on: November 08, 2015, 01:23:47 PM

It's gonna be more important - assuming again, FDA regs stay the same - to stock up on coils and coil building supplies if that's your jam.
Am I reading the deeming regulation wrong? Because as written, it seems to exclude 'accessories' unless those accessories specifically include a 'tobacco product', IOW they would only apply to products that are pre-loaded with juice (such as disposable cartomizers) and to the juice itself. All of the various bits, including cores and resistance wire, would be beyond their purview as not being food or drug items (nor being explicitly manufactured or marketed as 'medical devices').

--Dave

EDIT: I mean, I got the RBA cores for the subtanks as a hedge against exactly that scenario, but I considered it a low-probability outcome, and something that would happen way down the line, if at all.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2015, 01:25:36 PM by MahrinSkel »

--Jello Biafra: "If evolution is outlawed, only outlaws will evolve."
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Reply #33 on: November 08, 2015, 05:15:25 PM

There's some legal mumbo jumbo in there that gives them domain over not only accessories but also various weed accessories because they can be used in vaping.

The original deeming regs are absolutely fucking insane and must be stopped. It gives them authority over 0mg juice also.
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Reply #34 on: November 22, 2015, 02:13:13 PM

Mahrin, given how you vape you may want to look into the Pax Juul.
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