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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  General Discussion  |  Topic: Vaping [2015-Future] 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: Vaping [2015-Future]  (Read 38734 times)
MahrinSkel
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Posts: 9867

When she crossed over, she was just a ship. But when she came back... she was bullshit!


Reply #210 on: September 09, 2019, 07:33:04 PM

According to the CDC it's not just Vitamin E:

https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2019/p0906-vaping-related-illness.html
Quote
The FDA is analyzing these for a broad range of chemicals but no one substance, including Vitamin E acetate, has been identified in all of the samples tested
Some people who have gotten lipoid pneumonia from vaping claimed to have only used nicotine in glycerol. If that's true you may want to avoid VG as a base. Glycerol, while it is not a fat itself, is used as part of fat synthesis in the body. I.e. it may be that the glycerol is getting into the lungs and by some yet unknown mechanism is used to create fats in the lungs leading to lipoid pneumonia.

This has to be vanishingly rare, if it happens at all. If it was a common or likely outcome, it would have shown up long before this. Lipoid pneumonia is really rare under ordinary circumstances, that's why these clusters stood out so much. Glycerol fog is also used for laser displays at music events, so we would expect similar cases for that.

And the fact that they are clusters, very similar to what is seen when a bad batch of meth or opioids is on the street, also argues strongly for the bootleg THC vapes explanation. If it was glycerol, it would have been found through statistical epidemiology, not because 50 teenagers turned up in Michigan ER's.

--Dave

--Jello Biafra: "If evolution is outlawed, only outlaws will evolve."
schild
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Reply #211 on: September 09, 2019, 10:49:26 PM

Meanwhile, Juul is in trouble with the FDA for telling kids that vaping is good for you.

Well-timed as they're currently running a political campaign in San Francisco with the general thrust that vaping saves lives so if you want to regulate it in any way that might make Juul pods harder to buy you're basically a murderer.
I've never seen a JUUL ad before despite being in the vaping industry, but it's not a hard leap to make despite being totally hyperbolic. Cigarettes kill X00,000 people a year. Traditional vaping kills zero. It's been this way since like 2009. The shit this year ain't vaping.

Who could have foreseen that unregulated products could have issues?!
I'm all for regulation but hey, fuck right the fuck off. This isn't guns we're talking about and yet it's getting the full aggravated force of every "Can I See The Manager" mom in the goddamn country.
MahrinSkel
Terracotta Army
Posts: 9867

When she crossed over, she was just a ship. But when she came back... she was bullshit!


Reply #212 on: September 09, 2019, 11:27:32 PM

Juul ads are all over radio, and fairly common on basic cable. Personally, I think Juul is only slightly less crappy gear than Blu, but it ain't killing anybody (driving people to black market fruity flavored pods might be).

For crying out loud, I've been vaping for 11 years. Cigarettes were literally killing me, but I wasn't going to give up nicotine. Unregulated markets are bad, but black markets are far worse.

--Dave

--Jello Biafra: "If evolution is outlawed, only outlaws will evolve."
schild
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Reply #213 on: September 09, 2019, 11:41:51 PM

let's just say what this is

some places legalized weed

experimentation went through the roof and spread to places without legal weed

now people are dying

there's no real experimentation with ecigarettes - we got freebase nic and then salt nic and that's it

that's all that has changed. In fact, the industry self-regulated anything CLOSE to harmful over a long term on its own without anyone else.

I don't think non smokers should vape. I don't think kids should vape. I don't think teenagers should vape. But nobody thinks they should fuck with anything other than pg/vg/nic/specific flavorings.
HaemishM
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Posts: 40446

Prevent all damage that would be dealt to you and other troops you control.


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Reply #214 on: September 10, 2019, 08:50:19 AM

some places legalized weed

experimentation went through the roof and spread to places without legal weed

now people are dying

This here. Because of the patchwork stupidity of laws regarding legal and illegal weed, as well as legalizing CBD products without any real sense of what regulation for that substance is about, means it's the Wild Wild fucking West. Both weed and CBD products REALLY need like a metric fuckton of research into benefits and downsides. What information that is out there is spotty and inconsistent, and what research has been done is sparse and inadequate. I'm all for legalizing and regulating weed and any vaping products, as well as significant, independent research into the harmful effects of all of them. And I mean independent research, not studies funded by the tobacco industry (which has a vested interest in vaping being found to be harmful) or by the vaping industry.

MahrinSkel
Terracotta Army
Posts: 9867

When she crossed over, she was just a ship. But when she came back... she was bullshit!


Reply #215 on: September 10, 2019, 10:02:55 AM

I post on one of those "Answers" sites, have some moderately popular answers, and have "Vaping" as one of my topics of interest, so I get a lot of vaping questions in my feed. About a year ago, they went from being general questions about vaping, trolling about why vaping is just smokers cheating the law, or questions about very particular bits of gear to things like "What household chemicals can be used to make vape juice?" (None, don't be retarded, buy USP grade from a reliable vendor), "How can I vape Adderall?", "What should I use for a solvent when mixing fentanyl with e liquid?"

Basically, at the intersection of weed culture "I can turn anything into a bong" and the amateur chemistry associated with soda-bottle meth cooking. So when a teenager shows up in the ER claiming he's been vaping a lot and is now bleeding from his eye sockets, the "vaping" he's doing probably has nothing to do with nicotine,

--Dave

--Jello Biafra: "If evolution is outlawed, only outlaws will evolve."
schild
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Reply #216 on: September 10, 2019, 12:54:48 PM

not probably

it has nothing to do with nicotine

there's no world where any legitimate vape product resulted in any of this
Chimpy
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Reply #217 on: September 10, 2019, 05:03:58 PM

Glycerol fog is also used for laser displays at music events, so we would expect similar cases for that.


You aren't putting Rosco fog directly into your lungs on purpose.

And there have been a lot of studies linking the Rosco fog to various illnesses, so saying it is "safe" because the glycerol based fog haven't shown similar cases is not really a good comparison.

There were a number of places I knew of when I was in the theatre business where you couldn't use the glycerol fog at all and had to use LN2 or Dry Ice fog instead (at the added expense).

'Reality' is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.
Phildo
Contributor
Posts: 5534


Reply #218 on: September 11, 2019, 09:01:57 AM

not probably

it has nothing to do with nicotine

there's no world where any legitimate vape product resulted in any of this

If it's legitimate vape, the body has ways of shutting it down.
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