Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
March 28, 2024, 04:26:14 PM

Login with username, password and session length

Search:     Advanced search
we're back, baby
*
Home Help Search Login Register
f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  Gaming  |  Topic: XCOM 2 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 ... 17 Go Down Print
Author Topic: XCOM 2  (Read 178979 times)
Ceryse
Terracotta Army
Posts: 879


Reply #105 on: February 05, 2016, 03:19:58 AM

I'm generally not a fan of turn limits in these kinds of games. It makes sense thematically and I get why they were put in place, however. My issue with them in XCom2 is twofold; they're too stringent (making them tied to difficulty would have been a good idea, imo, instead of the same from Easy to Legendary) and the turn limits can be too punishing at times when it doesn't make sense. In certain missions it makes sense that it's essentially a 'mission over', but why not simply make it so when the limit expires more and more enemies (of increasing difficulty) are dropped in, instead of magically all soldiers become captured?

Personally, I'm looking forward to a mod that increases the limits 25-33% so I don't feel quite so forced into a singular play style (run and gun).
lamaros
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8021


Reply #106 on: February 05, 2016, 04:43:42 AM

The strategy layer is wonderfully opaque for me still, hope it continues. I'm constantly short of things I need, from supplies to squad members to etc. On the top difficulty the build timers are also doubled, so its has a real slog of a feel to it.

Some of the maps are just unfair, but it feels right.

Samprimary
Contributor
Posts: 4229


Reply #107 on: February 05, 2016, 12:39:45 PM

I'm definitely loving the way the game forces me out of my comfort zone and forces me to balance momentum with safety, rather than just being punished for doing anything but inchworming forward in an overwatch frenzy.
Fabricated
Moderator
Posts: 8978

~Living the Dream~


WWW
Reply #108 on: February 06, 2016, 12:36:35 AM

This game is good. It made me do that thing where I started playing at like 8-9PM and then it was nearly 4AM.

I should probably have waited and read a strat or two for the top-layer stuff because I have this feeling dragging my feet on hitting the first blacksite is probably bad even if I've succeeded at every single mission I've taken on and only lost one rookie.

"The world is populated in the main by people who should not exist." - George Bernard Shaw
lamaros
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8021


Reply #109 on: February 06, 2016, 01:02:16 AM

Yeah I'm at a point now where the track is getting high and all of a sudden I'm franticly trying to connect to other blacksite areas before Domesday hits.

Playing hardest difficulty is tough, I should have started one lower. Rule I'm playing is play the mission out as best possible, but restart total wipes. There have been a few restarts.

Lots of things I'd do different next time around, but I don't think it'll ever get as easy as the first game.
Khaldun
Terracotta Army
Posts: 15157


Reply #110 on: February 06, 2016, 05:05:32 AM

I'm liking it. I don't mind the timer, I just wish it was on average about 2 turns longer.
Polysorbate80
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2044


Reply #111 on: February 06, 2016, 09:57:07 AM

I find I don't mind the limits in this one.  You've certainly got to be more aggressive.  I find starting in stealth to almost be a trap, since my inclination is to sneak slowly while hidden, but in practice you need to push as hard as you can before you get found out.

 I did a VIP rescue with alien reinforcements due to land directly between me and the evac on the next to the last turn.  I double moved right into the alien landing zone.  The ship comes in, drops enemy troops right next to my soldiers.  Enemy stares at me, runs for cover, and ends turn.  My soldiers walk to the evac square and bug out without further incident.

“Why the fuck would you ... ?” is like 80% of the conversation with Poly — Chimpy
Samprimary
Contributor
Posts: 4229


Reply #112 on: February 06, 2016, 10:16:56 AM

This game is good. It made me do that thing where I started playing at like 8-9PM and then it was nearly 4AM.

I should probably have waited and read a strat or two for the top-layer stuff because I have this feeling dragging my feet on hitting the first blacksite is probably bad even if I've succeeded at every single mission I've taken on and only lost one rookie.

the thing is is that we are unconsciously carrying the way the first xcom trained us to strategically and indefinitely delay our pursuit of the keystone missions. before, they would just sit and wait for you and the aliens wouldn't advance without you.

this time around if you sit around and twiddle your thumbs and think you can sit back and relax and poop out a bunch of upgrades with all this time you think you have, the doom track and the aliens carry on willy-nilly without you and you're fucked.
lamaros
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8021


Reply #113 on: February 06, 2016, 01:01:50 PM

I find I don't mind the limits in this one.  You've certainly got to be more aggressive.  I find starting in stealth to almost be a trap, since my inclination is to sneak slowly while hidden, but in practice you need to push as hard as you can before you get found out.

 I did a VIP rescue with alien reinforcements due to land directly between me and the evac on the next to the last turn.  I double moved right into the alien landing zone.  The ship comes in, drops enemy troops right next to my soldiers.  Enemy stares at me, runs for cover, and ends turn.  My soldiers walk to the evac square and bug out without further incident.

I've had some fun ones where half the side was running from  combat on the last turn, leaving about 8 enemies in pursuit.

I got there with the ranger after using the higher rank ability that gives you an extra move after a kill. Run run run, stsb, run, evac. Was glorious.
koro
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2307


Reply #114 on: February 06, 2016, 02:48:25 PM

If the turn limits are the thing turning you guys off from the game, there's already two mods out that address them: one that removes them, and another that adds extra turns to the timers.
Samprimary
Contributor
Posts: 4229


Reply #115 on: February 06, 2016, 06:37:44 PM

the only thing that has annoyed me about this game so far:

*first turn of ADVENT resistance camp raid mission*

*first turn*

*ADVENT kills a civilian on the other side of the map, four turns away at minimum, that is literally impossible to save*

Cmdr. Bradford: COMMANDER YOU REALLY NEED TO MOVE FASTER COMMANDER CIVILIANS ARE DROPPING LEFT AND RIGHT ITS A MASSACRE COMMANDER WHY ARENT YOU STOPPING THIS COMMANDER
Fabricated
Moderator
Posts: 8978

~Living the Dream~


WWW
Reply #116 on: February 06, 2016, 09:15:17 PM

Yeah that gets annoying.

Also the fact that faceless aliens exist. What an annoying gimmick.

Also don't throw battle scanners during retaliation missions. Bad things will happen.

"The world is populated in the main by people who should not exist." - George Bernard Shaw
Zetor
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3269


WWW
Reply #117 on: February 06, 2016, 10:40:45 PM

I think my 'favorite' retaliation mission was the one where almost all of the civs (9+) were in one clump in the opposite side of the map*... with 3 enemy pods stacked on them. Even when double-moving every turn with my stealthed ranger and the rest of the group beelining for that corner, I had to activate all three pods at the same time and dedicate two of my soldiers to saving civs while exposing themselves... I barely made 6 rescues by the end. Thank Cthulhu for mimic beacons, is all I'm saying.

* Seriously, I scoured the entire other half of the map as I ran, and there were only 4 civs, with half of them being... well, you know. ACK!
« Last Edit: February 06, 2016, 10:51:17 PM by Zetor »

Sophismata
Terracotta Army
Posts: 543


Reply #118 on: February 06, 2016, 10:52:37 PM

Okay, the game is very much improved over XCOM: Enemy Unknown, in a huge number of ways. The strategic layer is more exciting, base building feels less annoying, even the soldier specialisations are cooler and get abilities I find way more relevant. The theme is better, in all honesty, and a lot of the game successfully plays to that theme well.

However…

The XCOM: Enemy Unknown problems with tactical battles still exist to a degree. While the new concealment mechanic helps to mitigate the problem slightly, you are still punished for reconnaissance by nearly un-winnable shootouts with a huge number of now-active enemies.

  • Scouting out an enemy patrol means that patrol will now participate in battle once your squad is revealed. If you'd managed to avoid somehow seeing the enemy patrol you wouldn't need to deal with them until you are ready.
  • This leads to weird behaviour where it is detrimental to aggressively flank and spread out your squad, because you might see a patrol you don't want to fight.
  • It feels strange to hope, every time I move a squad member in combat, that I don't accidentally take cover somewhere that will let me see the next threat coming.
  • In light of the above points, the mission timers — which otherwise would work rather well, thematically and mechanically — feel a tad ham-handed. The mechanics don't match the theme as most missions require you to kill all enemies in addition to securing the objective, which makes the timer kind of a bludgeon.
  • Fortunately the map design isn't as bad as in XCOM: Enemy Unknown, where the optimal way to play was to move down the edge, to the back of the map, in order to take advantage of the superior alien positioning and cover on all the battle maps.
  • And need I mention that at the hardest difficulty levels the binary hit/miss calcs and mandatory heavy cover create more frustration than strategy. Superhuman difficulty in UFO Defence and Terror From the Deep worked because you could mitigate the harsh combats through good action economy and careful scouting, neither of which work in XCOM2. So high difficulty gameplay feels faintly exploitative, and tedious.


Yeah that gets annoying.

Also the fact that faceless aliens exist. What an annoying gimmick.

Also don't throw battle scanners during retaliation missions. Bad things will happen.

What happened? I've been meaning to do this I just haven't been able to afford the scanner.


Is FF Explorers worth picking up, by the way?

I like it but it feels very action MMO'y, for better or worse.  I'd compare it to Fantasy Life stripped down to combat, but skinned for Final Fantasy, moreso than the usual comparison to Monster Hunter.  There's a lot of kill 10 rats and grind in general.  Depends on what you want from a game like this I suppose.
It is very grindy, and seems a good deal easier than MH. The combat is more complex than Fantasy Life; there are a lot more classes and more abilities too (plus the abilities are customizable). I only got it to hold me over until FE, and it's doing that nicely. The only missions I've repeated are the Eidolon ones (because the capture mechanism sucks) and the one to get the Onion Knight armour.

Thanks guys, I might pick it up then.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2016, 10:56:28 PM by Sophismata »

"You finally did it, you magnificent bastards. You went so nerd that even I don't know WTF you're talking about anymore. I salute you." - WindupAtheist
jakonovski
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4388


Reply #119 on: February 07, 2016, 05:00:43 AM

I found this on the internet (funny image spoilered for huge).

lamaros
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8021


Reply #120 on: February 07, 2016, 06:45:33 AM

Okay, the game is very much improved over XCOM: Enemy Unknown, in a huge number of ways. The strategic layer is more exciting, base building feels less annoying, even the soldier specialisations are cooler and get abilities I find way more relevant. The theme is better, in all honesty, and a lot of the game successfully plays to that theme well.

However…

The XCOM: Enemy Unknown problems with tactical battles still exist to a degree. While the new concealment mechanic helps to mitigate the problem slightly, you are still punished for reconnaissance by nearly un-winnable shootouts with a huge number of now-active enemies.

  • Scouting out an enemy patrol means that patrol will now participate in battle once your squad is revealed. If you'd managed to avoid somehow seeing the enemy patrol you wouldn't need to deal with them until you are ready.
  • This leads to weird behaviour where it is detrimental to aggressively flank and spread out your squad, because you might see a patrol you don't want to fight.
  • It feels strange to hope, every time I move a squad member in combat, that I don't accidentally take cover somewhere that will let me see the next threat coming.
  • In light of the above points, the mission timers — which otherwise would work rather well, thematically and mechanically — feel a tad ham-handed. The mechanics don't match the theme as most missions require you to kill all enemies in addition to securing the objective, which makes the timer kind of a bludgeon.
  • Fortunately the map design isn't as bad as in XCOM: Enemy Unknown, where the optimal way to play was to move down the edge, to the back of the map, in order to take advantage of the superior alien positioning and cover on all the battle maps.
  • And need I mention that at the hardest difficulty levels the binary hit/miss calcs and mandatory heavy cover create more frustration than strategy. Superhuman difficulty in UFO Defence and Terror From the Deep worked because you could mitigate the harsh combats through good action economy and careful scouting, neither of which work in XCOM2. So high difficulty gameplay feels faintly exploitative, and tedious.


Yeah that gets annoying.

Also the fact that faceless aliens exist. What an annoying gimmick.

Also don't throw battle scanners during retaliation missions. Bad things will happen.

What happened? I've been meaning to do this I just haven't been able to afford the scanner.


Is FF Explorers worth picking up, by the way?

I like it but it feels very action MMO'y, for better or worse.  I'd compare it to Fantasy Life stripped down to combat, but skinned for Final Fantasy, moreso than the usual comparison to Monster Hunter.  There's a lot of kill 10 rats and grind in general.  Depends on what you want from a game like this I suppose.
It is very grindy, and seems a good deal easier than MH. The combat is more complex than Fantasy Life; there are a lot more classes and more abilities too (plus the abilities are customizable). I only got it to hold me over until FE, and it's doing that nicely. The only missions I've repeated are the Eidolon ones (because the capture mechanism sucks) and the one to get the Onion Knight armour.

Thanks guys, I might pick it up then.

I don't really agree. You can avoid the timers and kill all enemy elements on nearly all missions just by calling an early evac.

My main issues at this point is just the buggy code, it seems to be getting worse the longer it goes. I'd love to do a second highest difficult ironman, but at the moment I expect I'd get stuffed.

Also it would be great to have a system that showed where your path is visible from, as the los stuff is dumb sometimes.

Was 3 days away from failure on the strategy screen, getting Intel blocked seems to be the biggest issue, aside from the whole losing your best soldiers stufff...
Sir T
Terracotta Army
Posts: 14223


Reply #121 on: February 07, 2016, 07:46:22 AM

I found this on the internet (funny image spoilered for huge).

Looks like a 65% shot chance to me.  DRILLING AND MANLINESS

And you can shring an image by doing {img width=600] at the start


Hic sunt dracones.
Khaldun
Terracotta Army
Posts: 15157


Reply #122 on: February 07, 2016, 08:57:13 AM

Stuck now on a mission that's really annoying--ADVENT data tap, I send all the troops concealed way far away to set up for ambushing, one drone guy does the tap through a window, 4 turns left. Very clever, yes?

But then on the tap, conceal drops. Fine, I get it. But Bradford comes on and says, "Kill everything if you want the mission to end". Wait, why can't we just evac on this one? That's what we normally do, dude.

Everything is two fucking codecs, a big robot, two squads of Advent advanceds plus officers, two sectoids, and a reinforcement ship on the next turn. Seriously? What happened to the stealthy guerilla thing?

---------------

Also the equivalent to base defense was super-hairy but fun.
Fabricated
Moderator
Posts: 8978

~Living the Dream~


WWW
Reply #123 on: February 07, 2016, 10:55:17 AM

What happened? I've been meaning to do this I just haven't been able to afford the scanner.

Battle Scanners reveal faceless aliens- so if you throw a battle scanner you better be ready to deal with them. Apparently there's a bug where if there are multiple it makes all of them reveal themselves!

"The world is populated in the main by people who should not exist." - George Bernard Shaw
Falconeer
Terracotta Army
Posts: 11124

a polyamorous pansexual genderqueer born and living in the wrong country


WWW
Reply #124 on: February 07, 2016, 12:23:44 PM

Not sure it has been mentioned before, but one thing I really dislike is that the maps are big, and the new turn limit often forces you to do a test run, where you just scout the map and get your party killed, and then try the real one. Don't get me wrong, it's entirely possible to complete them on the first run, but the design is really makes map intel so important that it's hard not to feel they are shitty for not giving it to you (excessive fog of war), so test running is the best way not to waste time by moving carefully on your first try only to fall into terrain traps you would have avoided if you could have at least seen it all. Map three (first VIP extraction) is my best example, but every map seems to suffer a bit of this. In previous game, the overwatch creeping was silly, but avoided feeling so blind. Maybe if I were them I would have made fog of war a little less aggressive.

dd0029
Terracotta Army
Posts: 911


Reply #125 on: February 07, 2016, 01:04:19 PM

The maps aren't set. They are procedurally generated.
lamaros
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8021


Reply #126 on: February 07, 2016, 01:23:00 PM

Stuck now on a mission that's really annoying--ADVENT data tap, I send all the troops concealed way far away to set up for ambushing, one drone guy does the tap through a window, 4 turns left. Very clever, yes?

But then on the tap, conceal drops. Fine, I get it. But Bradford comes on and says, "Kill everything if you want the mission to end". Wait, why can't we just evac on this one? That's what we normally do, dude.

Everything is two fucking codecs, a big robot, two squads of Advent advanceds plus officers, two sectoids, and a reinforcement ship on the next turn. Seriously? What happened to the stealthy guerilla thing?

---------------

Also the equivalent to base defense was super-hairy but fun.

You couldn't just call the evac?

Base defense was bad on the hardest difficulty, literally I couldn't move any units first turn or it aggroed the whole map, three of which at least ran to the ramp meaning a second turn loss (stunlancers). I had to replay it in a very gamey way where I didn't move so I only got one pod at a time. After the first rounds it was a cakewalk though. And you could simply not end it to farm kills if you were feeling cheesy.

I've actually had one impossible mission, the evac zone was occupied so it was moved as I approached, and it was another two moves away and I couldn't reach it at all. Had to redo the whole mission as that was bullshit.

Otherwise I've really enjoyed the procedural missions, good variety.

Things I've learned so far, from having to play really aggressive on the tough maps. Mimic beacons are amazing, battle scanners OK but no as good as specialist scan, ranger scouting is vital. And while special ammo and grenades are OK, they're no patch on the armors. Unless you have excess cores don't bother too much, the other things are better.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2016, 02:14:29 PM by lamaros »
Sophismata
Terracotta Army
Posts: 543


Reply #127 on: February 07, 2016, 02:43:43 PM

Things I've learned so far, from having to play really aggressive on the tough maps. Mimic beacons are amazing, battle scanners OK but no as good as specialist scan, ranger scouting is vital. And while special ammo and grenades are OK, they're no patch on the armors. Unless you have excess cores don't bother too much, the other things are better.

Acid grenade has actually been really good - it strips armour, applies a DoT effect, and makes the area where it exploded hazardous terrain.

"You finally did it, you magnificent bastards. You went so nerd that even I don't know WTF you're talking about anymore. I salute you." - WindupAtheist
lamaros
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8021


Reply #128 on: February 07, 2016, 02:50:03 PM

Things I've learned so far, from having to play really aggressive on the tough maps. Mimic beacons are amazing, battle scanners OK but no as good as specialist scan, ranger scouting is vital. And while special ammo and grenades are OK, they're no patch on the armors. Unless you have excess cores don't bother too much, the other things are better.

Acid grenade has actually been really good - it strips armour, applies a DoT effect, and makes the area where it exploded hazardous terrain.

Absolutely, but it's a random chance, and the other grenades aren't as good. Meanwhile exo-suit also costs a core and gives you a rocket launcher and armor. So my first few cores will always go to those first. Once you have a few the others can be good, but the random outcome is really annoying. Being able to choose would help a lot.


Should we spoiler this stuff? Or just plot things?
« Last Edit: February 07, 2016, 03:08:12 PM by lamaros »
Sophismata
Terracotta Army
Posts: 543


Reply #129 on: February 07, 2016, 03:13:26 PM

Things I've learned so far, from having to play really aggressive on the tough maps. Mimic beacons are amazing, battle scanners OK but no as good as specialist scan, ranger scouting is vital. And while special ammo and grenades are OK, they're no patch on the armors. Unless you have excess cores don't bother too much, the other things are better.

Acid grenade has actually been really good - it strips armour, applies a DoT effect, and makes the area where it exploded hazardous terrain.

Absolutely, but it's a random chance, and the other grenades aren't as good. Meanwhile exo-suit also costs a core and gives you a rocket launcher and armor. So my first few cores will always go to those first. Once you have a few the others can be good, but the random outcome is really annoying. Being able to choose would help a lot.


Should we spoiler this stuff? Or just plot things?

I got lucky then, since I tried out some experimental ammo and grenades before I was able to get the early armours, and landed tracer rounds and acid grenades. I haven't invested more cores into the grenades, though, as though I was pretty happy with the acid grenade I've started using other utility items (eg tracer rounds), and rocket launchers.

"You finally did it, you magnificent bastards. You went so nerd that even I don't know WTF you're talking about anymore. I salute you." - WindupAtheist
lamaros
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8021


Reply #130 on: February 07, 2016, 04:07:36 PM

« Last Edit: February 07, 2016, 08:09:22 PM by lamaros »
lamaros
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8021


Reply #131 on: February 07, 2016, 05:59:01 PM

So, skills. I have some firm views and hope others might point out things I've missed or not seen the power of.

« Last Edit: February 07, 2016, 07:03:53 PM by lamaros »
Zetor
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3269


WWW
Reply #132 on: February 07, 2016, 09:07:08 PM

One note about about Specialists: even on a haxxor build, you want Threat Assessment over Covering Fire. The reason for this is that it allows you to give a friendly unit defense AND overwatch, and if you do this as the first action, it doesn't end the turn. Using it on your tank/frontliner is effectively giving them a free shot (one that works even if the enemy doesn't move) in addition to the defense boost. Only drawback I can see is if you want to use Aid Protocol each turn -- may be necessary on legendary? Ditto with Guardian over Ever Vigilant -- I don't think the latter would've helped me particularly in any mission except for the rare "run for the LZ" situation, but nailing THREE enemies with reaction fire in one turn in the last mission thanks to Guardian was worth the price of admission.

lamaros
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8021


Reply #133 on: February 07, 2016, 09:24:56 PM

Generally speaking I like pro-active predicable skills, as there's enough randomness in the game already. Ever Vigilant just lets you get to some good flanking OW shots you might otherwise not get, or go on a desperate run from way out of the action. Chained overwatch shots could be great, but it's more memorable than reliable.

Aid protocol I view the same way, it's used to put someone in harm's way out of it, not as a proactive thing. If I'm in a combat already then anything I can't kill will die next turn, I'm not generally relying on overwatch shots when there's any risk. So I want to aid protocol as often as possible. I don't actually care too much about Covering Fire itself, though it can be useful for some enemies special actions.
Zetor
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3269


WWW
Reply #134 on: February 07, 2016, 10:09:26 PM

Fair nuff. How about using a dedicated Phantom scout that only unstealths near the end of the map (or maybe also takes Conceal to allow for some fighting inbetween)? In my experience it can turn each difficult pod into an ambush (sniper killzone through squadsight -> launch grenade of choice (acid / plasma / proxy) into clump -> pick up the pieces with the other soldiers, including the grenadier if he has Salvo already) that justifies the Ranger being essentially a dedicated non-combat unit for most of the mission, but this may not be applicable to Legendary.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2016, 10:11:21 PM by Zetor »

lamaros
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8021


Reply #135 on: February 08, 2016, 01:12:03 AM

Holy shit I just got Serial on my Ranger from the random skill.

Implacable gives it an extra run distance on the first kill. I just killed 8 units with one soldier in one turn (free reload weapon upgrade). Then after the last kill he ran to cover and concealed. Hilarious.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2016, 01:36:48 AM by lamaros »
Jeff Kelly
Terracotta Army
Posts: 6921

I'm an apathetic, hedonistic, utilitarian, nihilistic existentialist.


Reply #136 on: February 08, 2016, 01:56:23 AM

Bought it on steam. Which was a bit of a mistake because the download is 34 Gig. So right now I'm playing the "watch the progress bar" mini game.

Looking forward to playing it this evening once the DL finishes.
Merusk
Terracotta Army
Posts: 27449

Badge Whore


Reply #137 on: February 08, 2016, 06:03:18 AM

I'm Meh on this game. Since others are praising it, here's my criticisms. I'm not saying don't buy it, but I want to mind-dump some of my negative thoughts.

A lot of the problems I had with the first game are still there, with some new ones. Like the game engine's performance isn't great. They upped the graphics resources used and it grind anything else to a halt. I'm not sure the game is that much prettier/ using more particles/ whatever is the reasoning than the first game. All it's served to do is slow-down any background processes and make load times stupidly long. So I can't browse a web-page while waiting on the long-ass loading screen.

The randomizer still does the bullshit of, "This is the predetermined list of rolls for the turn/game." So the same action gets the same result. A 75% hit-chance that's a miss is always a miss. Hacking is the only one that doesn't seem subject to this. Plus I'm not certain it's bias on my part or not but the 60-70% range seems fucked. I don't hit 3/5 times. I started keeping a log here to see if it's bias on my part.

Things I really don't like in X2:
They touted that "enemies will patrol now." While they do, you run into the situation where a patrolling enemy coming into the combat and suddenly knowing where all of your units are. More realistic, but also a bigger headache overall.  Plus the enemies still get the, "They saw me, run for cover!" free turn. That was obnoxious in the first game, it's more obnoxious now.

The stealth mechanic that was added is only a thematic thing. As others have pointed out, scouting a location is actually punitive, not helpful. If you see three groups then you're going to have to take-down all three groups at once. Find a group, kill it, then advance.

This is no different than before, so the stealth mechanic is pointless. I had a ranger on a retaliation mission who I painstakingly ran through a mission making sure she was always concealed. She freed all of the civvies for me and ended the match still in concealment. No achievement, no recognition, nothing. This is underscored by the fact there doesn't seem to be any way of accomplishing missions IN stealth. The devs didn't even consider someone would do this. They just threw it in there, "because it's like you're the aliens now!"

Too damn many animations. I realized yesterday morning that about half my time between load screens was taken-up by animation. I want a way to turn them off. Between all the "enemies run for cover" and "hacking coolness" and "Skyranger takes off/ skyranger lands" and "you run run for your next spot" and "high action shoot-down" and "ooh, new facility" animations I just got tired of it after only a month game-time.

Too damn many mandatory interruptions. Game events shouldn't feel like spam. I want to scan a location and I have ~6hours left on a scan. Red-alert pops-up and I think, "fuck it I'll finish this THEN run to it." Nope, take that red alert RIGHT NOW or it's gone for the month. Fuck. Ok, that's on me.

Now next scan as I'm building a radio tower? Three interruptions for non-mandatory events, there's no "Ok continue" button on the pop-up window. It interrupts what I'm doing so I have to go back to hit "scan" button again. That's terrible UI design and is already annoying.

The resource stuff makes this feel like a different game than X-Com or the reboot. Struggling to do anything at the upper-end of difficulty is one thing. Always struggling when you're trying to kick the tires on a lower difficulty (I'm playing Normal) makes you hate life. You feel like a failure because you don't know the optimal path from the start. It leads to reload/ restart-fever as you question every decision because it feels unrecoverable if you make the wrong one.

I want to really like this game. It's got a lot of cool elements to it. The classes are a lot more fun than X1 and there's some pretty cool stuff that's new like the ammo, but the minor annoyances kind of overshadow it.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
koro
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2307


Reply #138 on: February 08, 2016, 06:36:01 AM

The idea that some of you are putting out there that stealth and scouting is not just useless, but actually punished is a head-scratcher to me.

If I'm sending my Phantom Ranger out to scout, and he sees a patrol? My still-stealthed squad goes the other way around. When we meet a pod we want to make contact with, the crew sets up an ambush and either the Ranger (who goes back into concealment after engagement) or the Sharpshooter triggers it, and the patrol we bypassed never shows up. Any time a patrol does show up as soon as I engage a pod, it's been a failure on my part to properly maneuver my squad 100% of the time.

I've even avoided engaging roughly half the enemies on a VIP escort mission through thorough Ranger scouting, and that's with 4/5 of my squad out of concealment. And a Ranger in stealth can trivialize the otherwise extremely brutal base defense event by booking it around and to the generator you have to destroy, and letting your Sharpshooter squadsight it down over a couple turns.

Stealth is extremely handy, and stealth-focused Rangers are a massively useful asset.
Jeff Kelly
Terracotta Army
Posts: 6921

I'm an apathetic, hedonistic, utilitarian, nihilistic existentialist.


Reply #139 on: February 08, 2016, 06:47:09 AM

The randomizer still does the bullshit of, "This is the predetermined list of rolls for the turn/game." So the same action gets the same result. A 75% hit-chance that's a miss is always a miss. Hacking is the only one that doesn't seem subject to this. Plus I'm not certain it's bias on my part or not but the 60-70% range seems fucked. I don't hit 3/5 times. I started keeping a log here to see if it's bias on my part.

I've watched a few let's players and everyone is expressing the same sentiment. One described it as "snipers are a shitshow because they miss all the time even at 80%". I suppose that this is not a bug because it was similar in the previous game where your squad seemed to miss a whole lot even at high hit-%. I assume that the game applies a hidden stat to your hit chance.

As for predetermined rolls. They do this allegedly to prevent save scumming.
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 ... 17 Go Up Print 
f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  Gaming  |  Topic: XCOM 2  
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.10 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC