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f13.net General Forums => PC/Console Gaming => Topic started by: DraconianOne on June 01, 2015, 12:49:27 PM



Title: XCOM 2
Post by: DraconianOne on June 01, 2015, 12:49:27 PM
Because

That XCom 2 trailer was nice.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2E_-2wIJIzQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2E_-2wIJIzQ)

Some limited info and screenies on RPS (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/06/01/xcom-2-announced/#more-292343).


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Tebonas on June 01, 2015, 01:19:30 PM
Trailer looks like Xcom goes the V route, Xcom being Freedom Fighters against an Alien Regime with good publicity. Sounds different and I'm looking forward to it.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Falconeer on June 01, 2015, 01:25:58 PM
I think the trailer is not that great, or at least doesn't enthuse me as I had hoped. Not sure I like the new turn, but I still wish I could preorder it right now.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Ironwood on June 01, 2015, 01:27:00 PM
You're a strange man.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: WayAbvPar on June 01, 2015, 01:49:03 PM
This reminds me...I need to go back and finish the original and the expansion.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: HaemishM on June 01, 2015, 01:52:11 PM
I am so down for what they are selling. It may be the first game I buy at full price since the last X-Com.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: DraconianOne on June 01, 2015, 04:20:11 PM
I thought the beginning of the trailer seemed more like Syndicate/Syndicate Wars.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: eldaec on June 01, 2015, 04:50:12 PM
In the meantime, 'the long war' mod is fantastic if you need more xcom.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Tannhauser on June 02, 2015, 07:42:07 PM
Looks pretty good.  I'll keep an eye out for it.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Hoax on June 02, 2015, 10:27:48 PM
In the meantime, 'the long war' mod is fantastic if you need more xcom.

Yes. Stop playing the vanilla game, this mod is amazing.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Samprimary on June 02, 2015, 11:44:29 PM
Somewhere in a secret base, the A-Com commander is clawing his scaly skin off with frustration because there's been another UFO attack and terror mission engaged by the human invaders and too many of its troops are wounded.

YEAH WHAT'S IT FEEL LIKE HUH YOU LIKE THAT


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: eldaec on June 03, 2015, 01:14:17 AM
Why is this called 'xcom 2' and not 'xcom 8'?


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Zetor on June 03, 2015, 01:23:44 AM
I'm pretty sure most fans of the franchise(s) would like to forget everything that happened between TFTD and nuXCOM as well as whetever that third-person shooter game was. So that'd make this game 'xcom 4' at most.

In other news, Firaxis admits that Gollop Was Right!  :awesome_for_real: https://twitter.com/SolomonJake/status/605471960672444416
Quote
@julian_gollop Yes, well, I have come to humbly accept that you were basically right on everything.  Even the snakes.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Ironwood on June 03, 2015, 03:29:13 AM
What's that in relation to ?  Was there some kind of debate about something ?



Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: jakonovski on June 03, 2015, 03:30:17 AM
I look forward to proclaiming this game to be a piece of shit.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: DraconianOne on June 03, 2015, 03:36:45 AM
What's that in relation to ?  Was there some kind of debate about something ?



Gollop tweeted saying

Quote
Oooo more XCOM, with procedurally generated maps this time:

And Jake Solomon responded with the above.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Ironwood on June 03, 2015, 03:46:10 AM
No, I read that.  But I wanted to know if there was anything 'behind it' beyond the giggle.

Like, was there a reason or argument as to why Snakemen weren't in it ?  Did Gollop protest ?  Was there a reason or similar protest about maps ?

Clearly not, fair enough.

(Also, speaking as one of the boards Ophidophobes, I'm really not happy about the snakemen being back.  Especially that constricting shit you see on the trailer.  No. No.  Hell, No.)





Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Sky on June 03, 2015, 09:22:44 AM
But they're so bitey.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Merusk on June 03, 2015, 11:42:29 AM
There was LOTS of bitching from the fan community when the last one released without Snakemen. I recall reading that they couldn't get the pathing or animation right at the time but that may have been smokescreen.

Gollop's complaint list can be seen here:
http://www.pcgamer.com/x-coms-creator-julian-gollop-on-new-xcom-would-i-have-designed-the-game-in-the-same-way-i-would-have-to-say-no/

Obviously, being the original designer folks were interested in his take on it. TLDR list is:

* Too difficult on normal difficulties
* Too easy to play far into a game without knowing you're fucked
* Not deploying satellites "correctly" fucks your game, leading to point 2
* Mission maps were too repetitive
* Terror mission choices were too easy to select one that was 'bad'
* Geoscape didn't matter. "..The Interceptors are based in each region. I guess my original game was a bit more simulation-ny and the new game is a bit more board game-y.”"

Full interview: http://www.pcgamer.com/julian-gollop-interview-on-x-coms-old-and-new-the-ghost-recon-strategy-that-never-was-ai-auteurs-and-fork-my-fruit/


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Ironwood on June 03, 2015, 12:46:37 PM
Aha.  That explains it all.  Cheers.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: calapine on June 03, 2015, 02:36:55 PM
I'm pretty sure most fans of the franchise(s) would like to forget everything that happened between TFTD and nuXCOM as well as whetever that third-person shooter game was. So that'd make this game 'xcom 4' at most.

In other news, Firaxis admits that Gollop Was Right!  :awesome_for_real: https://twitter.com/SolomonJake/status/605471960672444416
Quote
@julian_gollop Yes, well, I have come to humbly accept that you were basically right on everything.  Even the snakes.

X-Com Apocalypse was quite different after UFO and TFTD, but a very good game.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Raguel on June 03, 2015, 06:09:22 PM
No, I read that.  But I wanted to know if there was anything 'behind it' beyond the giggle.

Like, was there a reason or argument as to why Snakemen weren't in it ?  Did Gollop protest ?  Was there a reason or similar protest about maps ?

Clearly not, fair enough.

(Also, speaking as one of the boards Ophidophobes, I'm really not happy about the snakemen being back.  Especially that constricting shit you see on the trailer.  No. No.  Hell, No.)

Thanks for the (trigger?) warning. I could barely stomach them in the original game. I'm assuming they are much more realistic this time. I guess I'll have to pass (or take more meds).




Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: tmp on June 03, 2015, 08:29:50 PM
I'm assuming they are much more realistic this time.
They put tits on them (so I guess they're supposed to be snakewomen this time) which looks so silly it may create a "wtf, really" reaction strong enough to cancel the fear, though probably not. :ye_gods:


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Ironwood on June 04, 2015, 06:15:18 AM
I didn't notice the tits.  Due to the constriction and fangs. 

The Great Big, Sharp, Pointy Teeth.

(Man, I don't even have to fake the accent with that line.)


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Shannow on June 12, 2015, 09:04:00 AM
Couldn't bother finding the old XCOM thread.
As noted in the Steam sales thread the whole XCOM bundle is on sale for $9.99
I downloaded the Long War mod which everyone raved about. Holy fuck, it's a tad difficult.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Tannhauser on June 12, 2015, 11:40:02 AM
I have been waiting for this deal!  *pulls trigger*  $9.99 plus I have been itching to start a new XCOM campaign.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: WayAbvPar on June 12, 2015, 03:43:05 PM
I have been waiting for this deal!  *pulls trigger*  $9.99 plus I have been itching to start a new XCOM campaign.

I started yesterday and am having a blast. I forgot how much fun this is. I need to grab the DLC.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Samprimary on June 12, 2015, 04:11:19 PM
I was not expecting such a fresh angle on X-Com. We'll see if it works out. It probably will.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Ironwood on June 20, 2015, 11:13:47 AM
I'm utterly unable to get Nexus to let me download Long War.

Can I get the latest version anywhere else, or do one of you fine chaps have a file I could borrow ?


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: calapine on June 22, 2015, 03:43:35 AM
Had no problems downloading it, but as it's a file over 2mb one needs a Nexus account and be signed in. Maybe that was the issue?

Anyway, I uploaded it for you on google drive:



Long War EW Beta 15e-88-b15e (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3xmT9bl4DChVTBmSllGbDJ0QVE/view?usp=sharing)


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Ironwood on June 25, 2015, 07:41:04 AM
Many thanks, my friend, you have truly introduced me to the concept of 'Fucking Hard' and 'Absolute fucking Rookie Slaughter'.

It's rather good. 


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Sir T on June 25, 2015, 08:38:27 AM
In my first playthrough of X-com I for some batshite reason researched weapon techs last. I went though a lot of rookies before I suddenly went "holy fuck" as Lazors suddenly made the Aliens start dropping rather more easily.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Shannow on June 27, 2015, 12:59:45 PM
Nope, fuck the Long War giving my troopers 33 day injuries when they WEREN'T EVEN TOUCHED.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Tannhauser on June 27, 2015, 02:01:03 PM
They are scars on the inside man.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Ironwood on June 27, 2015, 03:49:21 PM
I only just realised today that all the rookie soldiers in Long War wear red shirts.

And, boy, do they need to.  They just keep on dropping like flies.

 :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: eldaec on June 28, 2015, 04:50:51 AM
Nope, fuck the Long War giving my troopers 33 day injuries when they WEREN'T EVEN TOUCHED.

If someone made me take down a UFO with 2 dozen heavily armed monsters, using pop guns and 5 friends, I'd want a month off afterwards as well.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Ironwood on June 28, 2015, 05:08:51 PM
Ohhhh Man, some of these scripted missions have been made so very, very lol.

The first Exalt one where you have to rescue the dude.  Ok, so you slog through a MILLION Thin men and those fucking cloaked strangly bastards and then you think 'Ok, I'll setup before I talk to him because I remember a couple of dudes dropping in to stop me in the real game'.

And then you talk to him and 50 dudes drop from the fucking sky, wielding large dildos and a box of no Lube.

Jesus, this is fun.  Seriously.  It's brilliant.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Shannow on June 28, 2015, 06:57:20 PM
There's hard and then there's repetitive fuck hard. No thanks.

Went the dynamic war route which tones down everything 50%.

I like my singe player games a litttttle bit more rewarding than Long War.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Strazos on June 28, 2015, 07:27:26 PM
I had a buddy spec'ing me on Steam, so thought I would go back and play this.

Had no idea the cloud saves actually worked - was 2 missions from the end on Classic Ironman. Nice to finally finish the game.

Kind of sad that I essentially 2-shot the final boss, though.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: eldaec on June 30, 2015, 03:34:22 PM
Design things I love about long war:

- Recovery time forcing you to take different squads with different composition.

- People die and that's ok.

- Countries are lost and that's ok.

- Aliens don't give the impression that they teleport in groups of 2 at the edge of vision regardless of how you move around the map.

- So many development options that soldiers feel 'reasonably' unique.

- The mini tank things have a distinct role.

- If you fall too far behind, the scripted missions give a clear 'you are now fucked' message before you waste too much time.

- Playing your A team is not a one way bet, some of them will likely die and you are going to be fucked if an Even Bigger Giant Robot Crab appears while they are recovering.



Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Ironwood on June 30, 2015, 04:09:23 PM
What mini tank things ?  The SHIVS ?  Do they ?

Oh.

 :ye_gods:


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: eldaec on June 30, 2015, 05:22:52 PM
By distinct role I just mean you can charge them headlong into the enemy and they don't cost that much to repair.

Which can be useful in long war and not in the main game.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Ironwood on July 01, 2015, 05:04:38 AM
Trouble with that is Long War is even MORE sensitive to 'oh crap, I've woken up 12 of these fuckers'.  I inch forward with my guys so I can deal with the 3 I can see first.  Sending in Teh Doomztank to get them all going would be bad.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: eldaec on July 03, 2015, 09:32:03 AM
I've saved a fair number of guys by charging it into enemy lines, taking out one monster and absorbing fire from the others.




Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Khaldun on July 16, 2015, 01:08:07 PM
The Long War is a lot of fun. And hard.

Though hilariously the Nova Scotia chrysalids-in-a-shark thing was a cakewalk, I guess because by this point I know to just send one guy to call the air strike. I expected to get jumped by eight times as much bullshit after the trigger thought.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Ironwood on July 17, 2015, 08:07:08 AM
Having Close Combat being useful is a surprising twist.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Khaldun on July 17, 2015, 10:19:32 AM
Yeah! It's actually hugely useful. Glad I took it on some guys. In general, I've spread out ability-taking more than I have in other games. Maybe partly because you can't just have the one alpha squad, might as well mix-and-match a bit more to see.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Big Gulp on July 23, 2015, 08:05:41 PM
I'm loving Long War, but yeah, I took the easy mode and set it on Quick and Dirty (half the aliens).  Probably gone on around 20 something missions already and still don't even have lasers or even the first armor upgrade!  Oh, and I'm keeping all of my countries happy except for Argentina, which bailed on me in week one without me even failing a mission with them.  Weak willed, southern hemisphere donkey fuckers.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: cironian on July 24, 2015, 09:26:44 AM
One country leaving you soon after starting the LW campaign is hardcoded and unavoidable.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Hoax on July 24, 2015, 08:47:39 PM
Also they do that because you can liberate the country from the xenos at a later time given you meet the proper criteria.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Ironwood on August 07, 2015, 12:53:53 PM
OMG. (https://youtu.be/lj42i7f1nj0)

Some really cool stuff...


Also, this (https://youtu.be/8NzIpYn5qvA) is what they were actually watching...


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Khaldun on August 21, 2015, 08:55:11 AM
Still in the grip of Long War, which is starting to feel like a prequel to XCOM2 anyway, since I'm slowly losing the world. I think I didn't grasp how much my entire science output had to be directed towards getting some combat-worthy interceptors in the air. Most of the time I just have to watch while UFOs cruise around and pray that a few of them will land so I can get my hands on the salvage from them.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: luckton on December 10, 2015, 11:29:21 AM
Huge info dump today.

New trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0qHZG1-rEg&ab_channel=XCOM

RPS Article: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/12/10/xcom-2-preview/

Eurogamer 60 minute gameplay with dev commentary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwHPhQXavPA&ab_channel=Eurogamer

And a handful of gameplay videos:

 :drill:


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: lamaros on January 29, 2016, 05:11:35 AM
Soooon! I pre-ordered.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: koro on January 29, 2016, 03:07:51 PM
I also pre-ordered, from Greenman this time, as they are offering the Deluxe edition with its season pass deal for a few bucks less than the base game's MSRP.

Everything I've seen about this looks fantastic.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Arinon on January 29, 2016, 10:35:00 PM
Never really dealt with Greenman before, went to check that out.  Looks like they don't deal in CDN, making both standard and deluxe ~$10 more than the Steam pricing after conversion.

Need the American economy to start tanking before game prices hit triple digits up here!


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Samprimary on January 30, 2016, 03:22:10 PM
I want to preorder this but I'm broke as a fucking joke till midway through the month :/


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: lamaros on January 30, 2016, 03:33:32 PM
Never really dealt with Greenman before, went to check that out.  Looks like they don't deal in CDN, making both standard and deluxe ~$10 more than the Steam pricing after conversion.

Need the American economy to start tanking before game prices hit triple digits up here!

I bought it from ozgameshop, dunno if that's better for Canadian dollars too.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Father mike on January 31, 2016, 12:04:23 PM
Some of these specials (most notably GreenMan) end Feb 01, so get hopping!

Also, the text on these offers state that you get the season pass and goodies with the Digital Deluxe version.  The bullet points at purchase say Reinforcement Pack + goodies.  The Reinforcement Pack IS the season pass.

The Resistance Warrior pack is the pre-order bonus, and it's just some extra customization options for soldiers.

This may be sceamingly obvious to everyone else, but I spent half an hour yesterday trying to track down the pre-order special with the season pass attached.   :argh:


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Merusk on January 31, 2016, 02:08:46 PM
Greenman apparently is already over, since the Deluxe version is $75, the same price as on Steam.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Trippy on January 31, 2016, 04:25:26 PM
The discount is still there if you are logged in and check the VIP section.

For VIPs (members):

XCOM 2 is $46.19 ($59.99 list)
XCOM 2 Digital Deluxe is $57.74 ($74.99 list)

GMG's site design is horrible so you often have to dig around to find the actual deals.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: lamaros on January 31, 2016, 07:59:07 PM
I'm glad I didn't watch any of the preview stuff until this week. It looks like they've really upped their game on the strategy layer, which was the biggest flaw in the first game for me (teleporting aliens and uninspiring difficulty gradients being next). I'm very excited to blow all of my Saturday on this.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: lamaros on February 01, 2016, 04:36:27 PM
Reviews are in, current metacritic score is 91.

http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/xcom-2/critic-reviews

Quote
ust describing the strategic layer doesn’t capture the rhythm of success and setback that makes it so gripping. The game cleverly uses scarcity of opportunity to force you into difficult dilemmas. At any one time you might have only six possible scan sites, while combat encounters are largely meted out by the game, but what you choose to do with this narrow range of options matters enormously. You need to recruit new rookies; you need an engineer to build a comms facility that will let you contact more territories; you need alien alloys to upgrade your weapons. You can’t have all of these. You can probably only have one. In 1989 Sid Meier described games as “a series of interesting decisions.” XCOM 2 is the purest expression of that ethos that Firaxis has yet produced.

Brilliantly, you even have to scan to collect your monthly cache of supplies, hidden in the landscape to escape alien detection. I have left supplies on the ground for a week because I needed to recruit an engineer. I needed to hit an alien base to reduce the Avatar Project count—a doom clock that is very bad news if it maxes out. I needed Advent corpses to get a vital armour upgrade. I needed a cup of tea because it was all getting a bit too much. This narrow series of opportunities fits the fantasy perfectly. You take whatever you can get. You’re scraping food and fuel out of the dirt to keep The Avenger in the air.

Does sound like the strategy layer and general flow of the game is more interesting.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: lamaros on February 03, 2016, 04:58:28 PM
Pre-load up, though I feel I'm the only one really invested here!


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Trippy on February 03, 2016, 05:22:04 PM
I'm being slammed at work right now, otherwise I would be more excited about it.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Merusk on February 03, 2016, 07:42:28 PM
Half the time excitement is the anticipation of the unknown. I bought it but I feel like I already know what I'm getting. There's some nice tweaks, like fixing the damned "aliens run when sighted" problem, but it's still the same game as before, just better.

 I only question if I'll have the time to play it.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Khaldun on February 03, 2016, 09:40:03 PM
Looking forward to it. May struggle a bit to find time in the next week or so for it though.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Ceryse on February 03, 2016, 10:33:59 PM
No real reason to get excited; it's just a better version of the first one. Granted, that made it worth pre-ordering (one of only two games this year I'll pre-order) but as already noted; we pretty much know exactly what we're going to get. That dampens a lot of excitement.

I just hope a number of the bugs I've seen in various streams are fixed in the release build.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Zetor on February 03, 2016, 11:42:37 PM
I'm pretty excited about it, though coming out so quickly after Darkest Dungeon is going to be a bit of a problem... hnng.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Ironwood on February 04, 2016, 05:18:19 AM
I'm slammed at work, playing Darkest, also Hex, also Diablo, also thinking about maybe finishing Fallout 4 at some point.  Also, broke.

Beyond that, stoked.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Jeff Kelly on February 04, 2016, 05:44:05 AM
There are two issues that keep me from pre-ordering this one.

1. I haven't heard anyone mentioning if the difficulty progression is better. The satellite rush of the original was not really fun and the game got ridiculously easy once you survived the first year or so.
2. Timed missions: Not really a fan.

It seems that their solution to people turtling up and overwatching constantly was to make most missions on a timer instead of solving the underlying issues with their game mechanics making overwatching so damn necessary. I don't like timers I play turn based exactly so thatIdon't have to rush and I'm not sure how much this affects gameplay.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: jakonovski on February 04, 2016, 05:48:44 AM
I'm in this weird place where I want to play a new XCom really badly, but then I'm afraid it'll go like the first game and I just endlessly compare it to the 90s original. And then the old games are just clunky enough to not evoke the same feeling they did back in the day.

I'll say the setting is a definite improvement, as it never really made sense why XCom was such a small time op, and even less so when you became festooned in alien tech, hovering in the air while exploding entire suburbs with blaster launchers.





Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Tebonas on February 04, 2016, 05:51:29 AM
Preordered since day one, preloaded since today.

Nothing else to say before I played the game, though. Not spoilering myself too much and just wating in anticipation.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Rendakor on February 04, 2016, 08:09:41 AM
I want to play it eventually, but I'm in no rush since it's so similar to the last one. Not that that's a bad thing, but with Hex's big PVE patch and FF Explorers (plus Fire Emblem in 2 weeks) I've got plenty to play already.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Falconeer on February 04, 2016, 08:42:37 AM
I can't wait for this. I know I am spread so thin I won't be able to immerse myself into it as I should and want, but I am SO excited about this. The fact that it doesn't have too many new things doesn't bother me at all: my biggest disappointment when I finished XCom 1 was that there was no other campaign/story to play, and in that sense the Expansion was a burning disappointment. Now, here we are!


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: WayAbvPar on February 04, 2016, 12:18:53 PM
Added it to my Steam wishlist so I will hear if/when it goes on sale. Unless one of you rich folks wants to send it to me. My birthday is in 3 weeks... :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Mandella on February 04, 2016, 02:38:47 PM
I'm holding off for a bit while worrying about the fact that nearly every mission now has a timer is going to wreck my slow and careful playstyle.

I don't mind the occasional speed mission, but nearly every one?

Guess I'll just go play Xenonauts when I want my retro X-Com fix...


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Falconeer on February 04, 2016, 02:43:49 PM
nearly every mission now has a timer

Oh? Shit!


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Merusk on February 04, 2016, 02:52:31 PM
It's an enrage timer.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: lamaros on February 04, 2016, 02:56:07 PM
About 50-60%.

Played a few hours, too much of it in character creation.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Sir T on February 04, 2016, 03:05:06 PM
Mission timer is a deal breaker for me.

And my lack of cash  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Rendakor on February 04, 2016, 03:12:02 PM
Are the timers in turns, or in actual time? The latter is a "wait until this is modded out" dealbreaker.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: jakonovski on February 04, 2016, 03:13:12 PM
Is it a timer that just makes sure you don't screw around too long, or does it force you to use a subgroup of time optimized moves? A lot is going to depend on what the answer is.

edit: I'm assuming a turn limit here.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: HaemishM on February 04, 2016, 03:27:16 PM
I'm assuming it's more like an "after X turns, we will spawn the fiery chariots of alien heaven to rain down furious retribution and copious ass-fucking upon you" type of timer.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Megrim on February 04, 2016, 04:02:19 PM
Yea it's that. You are the terrorists, and they are sending the army to deal with you, so you only have a limited window.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: lamaros on February 04, 2016, 04:20:21 PM
Yep, its a turn limit, not a time limit. How that plays out can depend on the mission, I think. Some are "if you don't do it by X, you lose the mission" , some are "if you're not in this point by x, you're dead and only those who are survive", some might involve other things like huge reinforcements or the like, not sure.

It's great and makes the game better in my view and current experience. It means you have to take some risks, or play very well, rather than just hanging back and doing a lot of overwatching.

Enemy groups patrol now, which is also good, especially in conjunction with the starting from stealth aspect. This means that in non-timed missions you can actually wait a bit and set up some clever openings, and in timed missions you can start pretty aggressively without having to take on too much risk.

I've been playing a fair bit of XCOM recently prior to this, and so far XCOM2 is a better game for every change I've seen. I'm only a few hours in, though.

Final edit: Strategy layer and base building is much more interesting at first sight.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Sophismata on February 04, 2016, 05:19:50 PM
I want to play it eventually, but I'm in no rush since it's so similar to the last one. Not that that's a bad thing, but with Hex's big PVE patch and FF Explorers (plus Fire Emblem in 2 weeks) I've got plenty to play already.
I did not like the first XCOM remake, but I have bought XCOM2 and I'm looking forward to playing it after work.

Is FF Explorers worth picking up, by the way?


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Ard on February 04, 2016, 05:25:34 PM
Is FF Explorers worth picking up, by the way?

I like it but it feels very action MMO'y, for better or worse.  I'd compare it to Fantasy Life stripped down to combat, but skinned for Final Fantasy, moreso than the usual comparison to Monster Hunter.  There's a lot of kill 10 rats and grind in general.  Depends on what you want from a game like this I suppose.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Yegolev on February 04, 2016, 07:14:16 PM
Mission timer is a deal breaker for me.

Agreed.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Falconeer on February 04, 2016, 07:29:25 PM
Premature complain after only watching the introduction: basically everything I did in the first game didn't matter. All that fighting, and winning in the end, didn't matter at all. We still lost. Mmmmmhnn dislike.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: lamaros on February 04, 2016, 07:41:10 PM
Don't know about you, but I died quite a lot first time around. Took a few goes before I graduated to victory.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: lamaros on February 04, 2016, 07:42:50 PM
Mission timer is a deal breaker for me.

Agreed.

The turn timers are reasonable, they just stop camping. It's still a strategic turn based game. They just stop some of the less thematic cheese strats.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Mandella on February 04, 2016, 08:04:32 PM
Mission timer is a deal breaker for me.

Agreed.

The turn timers are reasonable, they just stop camping. It's still a strategic turn based game. They just stop some of the less thematic cheese strats.

I'm willing to be convinced. After all, it does fit the setting this time around.

As long as the timers aren't too egregious I can be okay with it. I was never the "overwatch camper while I alt-tab around the internet" type of player anyway. But I do hate being rushed by some arbitrary limit...

As for the "we lost" intro, well, apparently they are basing this go round on 95 percent of my playthroughs (especially Terror From the Deep -- I may not have actually beaten that one)...

 :uhrr:


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Furiously on February 04, 2016, 08:24:13 PM
I think we should make an f13 character pool!


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: koro on February 04, 2016, 09:01:52 PM
I can virtually guarantee that the turn limits for the missions that have them can either be removed or greatly lengthened via the mod tools.

Speaking of which, via the Long War mod guy's Steam profile:

"XCOM 2 Development Tools
406 hrs on record"


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Merusk on February 04, 2016, 09:09:32 PM
My only problem with the turn timers in X1 was they were ridiculously short for some of the missions and since nearly every map was auto-generated things got funky sometimes.  I specifically remember one mission I only found the first objective by zerg-rushing the whole map inside of the 4 turn limit. The second one was only a half turn's movement away.  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Rendakor on February 04, 2016, 09:41:45 PM
Is FF Explorers worth picking up, by the way?

I like it but it feels very action MMO'y, for better or worse.  I'd compare it to Fantasy Life stripped down to combat, but skinned for Final Fantasy, moreso than the usual comparison to Monster Hunter.  There's a lot of kill 10 rats and grind in general.  Depends on what you want from a game like this I suppose.
It is very grindy, and seems a good deal easier than MH. The combat is more complex than Fantasy Life; there are a lot more classes and more abilities too (plus the abilities are customizable). I only got it to hold me over until FE, and it's doing that nicely. The only missions I've repeated are the Eidolon ones (because the capture mechanism sucks) and the one to get the Onion Knight armor.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Zetor on February 05, 2016, 01:27:05 AM
Turn timers in a game like this are almost necessary, otherwise you get the "overwatch-for-50-turns" and/or "bunker up in the most defensible part of the map and lure enemy groups one by one" problems. With a timer, the player is forced to play somewhat aggressively and actually take some risks now and then. An example from another game is SR:Dragonfall, where the most memorable encounters were those with some sort of time pressure. Invisible Inc also wouldn't work at all without the alarm level going up each turn.

That said, I feel they may have gone a bit overboard. After the tutorial, all mission types so far had some sort of timer, whether explicit (you have x turns to do y or the squad is lost), or implicit (save x civilians, but the aliens will kill one each turn / protect the target device with y hitpoints and a nearby enemy shooting it each turn for z damage). Sometimes you can set up all you want, but after you engage the enemy a timer will start (SPOILER type missions), and in some cases you can also just kill every alien on the map before the timer is up to solve the problem as well.

Also, once you've dealt with the main objective, the timer typically goes away and you can mop up the remaining aliens at your leisure (exception: extract-the-VIP type missions).


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Jeff Kelly on February 05, 2016, 02:14:39 AM
"The player is forced".

This is not directed at you personally but fuck that game design mentality. If players abuse a game mechanic then firstly why do developers care if it's single player? Secondly if players abuse a game mechanic then fix the fucking game mechanic. Make it so overwatch is not 'necessary' or that it is not always effective. Make it so people have other options for scouting without one false move fucking your whole campaign. Find out why people use that particular strategy and change the mechanics accordingly.

Turn timers are the laziest "we have to teach the players how to play the game 'right' without changing anything meaningful" implementation of a fix.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Tebonas on February 05, 2016, 02:20:46 AM
To be fair, they seem to have done other things to fix this as well. For example starting in stealth and the new ambush mechanic allow you to scout out the mob and position your soldiers prior to the first strike.

I am against time limits as well and hope there will be mods at a later time that extend them somewhat. Because thematically they fit really well, but I've already finished a mission at the last turn and lost my best soldier due to timing restraints in another one.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Falconeer on February 05, 2016, 02:41:14 AM
I do NOT like turn limits, but I understand why they went that way and I can't really criticize them for it. Interestingly, in XCom 1 I couldn't force myself to be aggressive and I did play that game of turtling with constant Overwatch, then move 1 square and pass turn, then another and pass turn, so I could basically kite the enemy and make sure I would never get in trouble. While I loved the whole experience, I felt that it was hard (for me) not to play that way and that if anything Overwatch was a lazy mechanic that made the gameplay pretty stale, which is one of my constant complains about turn-based games and what makes them hard to balance for PvP.

So in short, the idea of a turn timer gives me anxiety, but I think it makes every map more like a chess problem to solve -which is not a bad thing- than an exercise in patience to make sure aliens have no fair chance to ever catch you off guard.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Jeff Kelly on February 05, 2016, 03:12:30 AM
Having to start over from the beginning because a risky play killed your run dead is OK if you're playing a rogue-like and a whole game takes half an hour. You can't blame the player for playing extremely risk averse if taking unnecessary risks might lead to a premature end of a 30+ hour campaign simply because you can't replace your max level squad at that point with rookies and level them up again.

Yes overwatch is a lazy mechanic but if you want your players to play risky strategies you have to incentivize them or at least make it so a total loss of a squad is something you can reasonably handle in the late game. The limitation of 4 - 6 squad mates makes it so that levelling up a rookie means that you've replaced 20% of your strike team with dead weight and the difficulty curve makes using a whole squad of just rookies unfeasible in the late game. Players are simply trying to protect the 'valuable' max level soldiers because those are assets whose loss will put you at a huge disadvantage.

Just because they've painted themselves into a corner due to their limited mechanics doesn't mean that forcing the player to abandon a cheesy but prudent strategy will be the correct move. Worst case you have a lot of really pissed off players that quit your game because they had to restart the campaign over and over or you put even more emphasis on save scumming.

If you want the players to use soldiers as a resource that could be lost make it so losing them is something you can cope with.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Jeff Kelly on February 05, 2016, 03:15:00 AM
As it stands XCom 3 seems to have taken a few steps into that direction already. From what I've heard squad members are a whole lot easier to replace than in the previous game.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Falconeer on February 05, 2016, 03:31:07 AM
I am not sure Jeff. After all, if you want to play easy, you can choose the "easy" difficult setting, and the game will still work better with the turn limit on easy, than without the turn limit on normal. Again, I personally don't like the concept, but it was probably a good decision. One players can work around by accepting to crank down the difficulty setting.

A lot of times players complain about a mechanic making a game hard, forgetting they can still make the game easier yet still dynamic if they wanted without having to rely on a dummy tactic. Yet many would feel like they are cheating by doing so, while they wouldn't by abusing a mechanic.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Tebonas on February 05, 2016, 03:39:09 AM
I also think the limits won't seem as bad once we retrained ourselves how to play the game. The "standard" way to play Xcom 1 seems deadly in Xcom 2. And not only regarding the time limits. Some enemies have to go down fast, or their abilities wipe you out!


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Ceryse on February 05, 2016, 05:19:58 AM
I'm generally not a fan of turn limits in these kinds of games. It makes sense thematically and I get why they were put in place, however. My issue with them in XCom2 is twofold; they're too stringent (making them tied to difficulty would have been a good idea, imo, instead of the same from Easy to Legendary) and the turn limits can be too punishing at times when it doesn't make sense. In certain missions it makes sense that it's essentially a 'mission over', but why not simply make it so when the limit expires more and more enemies (of increasing difficulty) are dropped in, instead of magically all soldiers become captured?

Personally, I'm looking forward to a mod that increases the limits 25-33% so I don't feel quite so forced into a singular play style (run and gun).


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: lamaros on February 05, 2016, 06:43:42 AM
The strategy layer is wonderfully opaque for me still, hope it continues. I'm constantly short of things I need, from supplies to squad members to etc. On the top difficulty the build timers are also doubled, so its has a real slog of a feel to it.

Some of the maps are just unfair, but it feels right.



Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Samprimary on February 05, 2016, 02:39:45 PM
I'm definitely loving the way the game forces me out of my comfort zone and forces me to balance momentum with safety, rather than just being punished for doing anything but inchworming forward in an overwatch frenzy.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Fabricated on February 06, 2016, 02:36:35 AM
This game is good. It made me do that thing where I started playing at like 8-9PM and then it was nearly 4AM.

I should probably have waited and read a strat or two for the top-layer stuff because I have this feeling dragging my feet on hitting the first blacksite is probably bad even if I've succeeded at every single mission I've taken on and only lost one rookie.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: lamaros on February 06, 2016, 03:02:16 AM
Yeah I'm at a point now where the track is getting high and all of a sudden I'm franticly trying to connect to other blacksite areas before Domesday hits.

Playing hardest difficulty is tough, I should have started one lower. Rule I'm playing is play the mission out as best possible, but restart total wipes. There have been a few restarts.

Lots of things I'd do different next time around, but I don't think it'll ever get as easy as the first game.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Khaldun on February 06, 2016, 07:05:32 AM
I'm liking it. I don't mind the timer, I just wish it was on average about 2 turns longer.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Polysorbate80 on February 06, 2016, 11:57:07 AM
I find I don't mind the limits in this one.  You've certainly got to be more aggressive.  I find starting in stealth to almost be a trap, since my inclination is to sneak slowly while hidden, but in practice you need to push as hard as you can before you get found out.

 I did a VIP rescue with alien reinforcements due to land directly between me and the evac on the next to the last turn.  I double moved right into the alien landing zone.  The ship comes in, drops enemy troops right next to my soldiers.  Enemy stares at me, runs for cover, and ends turn.  My soldiers walk to the evac square and bug out without further incident.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Samprimary on February 06, 2016, 12:16:56 PM
This game is good. It made me do that thing where I started playing at like 8-9PM and then it was nearly 4AM.

I should probably have waited and read a strat or two for the top-layer stuff because I have this feeling dragging my feet on hitting the first blacksite is probably bad even if I've succeeded at every single mission I've taken on and only lost one rookie.

the thing is is that we are unconsciously carrying the way the first xcom trained us to strategically and indefinitely delay our pursuit of the keystone missions. before, they would just sit and wait for you and the aliens wouldn't advance without you.

this time around if you sit around and twiddle your thumbs and think you can sit back and relax and poop out a bunch of upgrades with all this time you think you have, the doom track and the aliens carry on willy-nilly without you and you're fucked.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: lamaros on February 06, 2016, 03:01:50 PM
I find I don't mind the limits in this one.  You've certainly got to be more aggressive.  I find starting in stealth to almost be a trap, since my inclination is to sneak slowly while hidden, but in practice you need to push as hard as you can before you get found out.

 I did a VIP rescue with alien reinforcements due to land directly between me and the evac on the next to the last turn.  I double moved right into the alien landing zone.  The ship comes in, drops enemy troops right next to my soldiers.  Enemy stares at me, runs for cover, and ends turn.  My soldiers walk to the evac square and bug out without further incident.

I've had some fun ones where half the side was running from  combat on the last turn, leaving about 8 enemies in pursuit.

I got there with the ranger after using the higher rank ability that gives you an extra move after a kill. Run run run, stsb, run, evac. Was glorious.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: koro on February 06, 2016, 04:48:25 PM
If the turn limits are the thing turning you guys off from the game, there's already two mods out that address them: one that removes them, and another that adds extra turns to the timers.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Samprimary on February 06, 2016, 08:37:44 PM
the only thing that has annoyed me about this game so far:

*first turn of ADVENT resistance camp raid mission*

*first turn*

*ADVENT kills a civilian on the other side of the map, four turns away at minimum, that is literally impossible to save*

Cmdr. Bradford: COMMANDER YOU REALLY NEED TO MOVE FASTER COMMANDER CIVILIANS ARE DROPPING LEFT AND RIGHT ITS A MASSACRE COMMANDER WHY ARENT YOU STOPPING THIS COMMANDER


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Fabricated on February 06, 2016, 11:15:17 PM
Yeah that gets annoying.

Also the fact that faceless aliens exist. What an annoying gimmick.

Also don't throw battle scanners during retaliation missions. Bad things will happen.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Zetor on February 07, 2016, 12:40:45 AM
I think my 'favorite' retaliation mission was the one where almost all of the civs (9+) were in one clump in the opposite side of the map*... with 3 enemy pods stacked on them. Even when double-moving every turn with my stealthed ranger and the rest of the group beelining for that corner, I had to activate all three pods at the same time and dedicate two of my soldiers to saving civs while exposing themselves... I barely made 6 rescues by the end. Thank Cthulhu for mimic beacons, is all I'm saying.

* Seriously, I scoured the entire other half of the map as I ran, and there were only 4 civs, with half of them being... well, you know. :ye_gods:


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Sophismata on February 07, 2016, 12:52:37 AM
Okay, the game is very much improved over XCOM: Enemy Unknown, in a huge number of ways. The strategic layer is more exciting, base building feels less annoying, even the soldier specialisations are cooler and get abilities I find way more relevant. The theme is better, in all honesty, and a lot of the game successfully plays to that theme well.

However…

The XCOM: Enemy Unknown problems with tactical battles still exist to a degree. While the new concealment mechanic helps to mitigate the problem slightly, you are still punished for reconnaissance by nearly un-winnable shootouts with a huge number of now-active enemies.

  • Scouting out an enemy patrol means that patrol will now participate in battle once your squad is revealed. If you'd managed to avoid somehow seeing the enemy patrol you wouldn't need to deal with them until you are ready.
  • This leads to weird behaviour where it is detrimental to aggressively flank and spread out your squad, because you might see a patrol you don't want to fight.
  • It feels strange to hope, every time I move a squad member in combat, that I don't accidentally take cover somewhere that will let me see the next threat coming.
  • In light of the above points, the mission timers — which otherwise would work rather well, thematically and mechanically — feel a tad ham-handed. The mechanics don't match the theme as most missions require you to kill all enemies in addition to securing the objective, which makes the timer kind of a bludgeon.
  • Fortunately the map design isn't as bad as in XCOM: Enemy Unknown, where the optimal way to play was to move down the edge, to the back of the map, in order to take advantage of the superior alien positioning and cover on all the battle maps.
  • And need I mention that at the hardest difficulty levels the binary hit/miss calcs and mandatory heavy cover create more frustration than strategy. Superhuman difficulty in UFO Defence and Terror From the Deep worked because you could mitigate the harsh combats through good action economy and careful scouting, neither of which work in XCOM2. So high difficulty gameplay feels faintly exploitative, and tedious.


Yeah that gets annoying.

Also the fact that faceless aliens exist. What an annoying gimmick.

Also don't throw battle scanners during retaliation missions. Bad things will happen.

What happened? I've been meaning to do this I just haven't been able to afford the scanner.


Is FF Explorers worth picking up, by the way?

I like it but it feels very action MMO'y, for better or worse.  I'd compare it to Fantasy Life stripped down to combat, but skinned for Final Fantasy, moreso than the usual comparison to Monster Hunter.  There's a lot of kill 10 rats and grind in general.  Depends on what you want from a game like this I suppose.
It is very grindy, and seems a good deal easier than MH. The combat is more complex than Fantasy Life; there are a lot more classes and more abilities too (plus the abilities are customizable). I only got it to hold me over until FE, and it's doing that nicely. The only missions I've repeated are the Eidolon ones (because the capture mechanism sucks) and the one to get the Onion Knight armour.

Thanks guys, I might pick it up then.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: jakonovski on February 07, 2016, 07:00:43 AM
I found this on the internet (funny image spoilered for huge).



Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: lamaros on February 07, 2016, 08:45:33 AM
Okay, the game is very much improved over XCOM: Enemy Unknown, in a huge number of ways. The strategic layer is more exciting, base building feels less annoying, even the soldier specialisations are cooler and get abilities I find way more relevant. The theme is better, in all honesty, and a lot of the game successfully plays to that theme well.

However…

The XCOM: Enemy Unknown problems with tactical battles still exist to a degree. While the new concealment mechanic helps to mitigate the problem slightly, you are still punished for reconnaissance by nearly un-winnable shootouts with a huge number of now-active enemies.

  • Scouting out an enemy patrol means that patrol will now participate in battle once your squad is revealed. If you'd managed to avoid somehow seeing the enemy patrol you wouldn't need to deal with them until you are ready.
  • This leads to weird behaviour where it is detrimental to aggressively flank and spread out your squad, because you might see a patrol you don't want to fight.
  • It feels strange to hope, every time I move a squad member in combat, that I don't accidentally take cover somewhere that will let me see the next threat coming.
  • In light of the above points, the mission timers — which otherwise would work rather well, thematically and mechanically — feel a tad ham-handed. The mechanics don't match the theme as most missions require you to kill all enemies in addition to securing the objective, which makes the timer kind of a bludgeon.
  • Fortunately the map design isn't as bad as in XCOM: Enemy Unknown, where the optimal way to play was to move down the edge, to the back of the map, in order to take advantage of the superior alien positioning and cover on all the battle maps.
  • And need I mention that at the hardest difficulty levels the binary hit/miss calcs and mandatory heavy cover create more frustration than strategy. Superhuman difficulty in UFO Defence and Terror From the Deep worked because you could mitigate the harsh combats through good action economy and careful scouting, neither of which work in XCOM2. So high difficulty gameplay feels faintly exploitative, and tedious.


Yeah that gets annoying.

Also the fact that faceless aliens exist. What an annoying gimmick.

Also don't throw battle scanners during retaliation missions. Bad things will happen.

What happened? I've been meaning to do this I just haven't been able to afford the scanner.


Is FF Explorers worth picking up, by the way?

I like it but it feels very action MMO'y, for better or worse.  I'd compare it to Fantasy Life stripped down to combat, but skinned for Final Fantasy, moreso than the usual comparison to Monster Hunter.  There's a lot of kill 10 rats and grind in general.  Depends on what you want from a game like this I suppose.
It is very grindy, and seems a good deal easier than MH. The combat is more complex than Fantasy Life; there are a lot more classes and more abilities too (plus the abilities are customizable). I only got it to hold me over until FE, and it's doing that nicely. The only missions I've repeated are the Eidolon ones (because the capture mechanism sucks) and the one to get the Onion Knight armour.

Thanks guys, I might pick it up then.

I don't really agree. You can avoid the timers and kill all enemy elements on nearly all missions just by calling an early evac.

My main issues at this point is just the buggy code, it seems to be getting worse the longer it goes. I'd love to do a second highest difficult ironman, but at the moment I expect I'd get stuffed.

Also it would be great to have a system that showed where your path is visible from, as the los stuff is dumb sometimes.

Was 3 days away from failure on the strategy screen, getting Intel blocked seems to be the biggest issue, aside from the whole losing your best soldiers stufff...


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Sir T on February 07, 2016, 09:46:22 AM
I found this on the internet (funny image spoilered for huge).

Looks like a 65% shot chance to me.  :drill:

And you can shring an image by doing {img width=600] at the start

(http://i.imgur.com/wzhity6.jpg)


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Khaldun on February 07, 2016, 10:57:13 AM
Stuck now on a mission that's really annoying--ADVENT data tap, I send all the troops concealed way far away to set up for ambushing, one drone guy does the tap through a window, 4 turns left. Very clever, yes?

But then on the tap, conceal drops. Fine, I get it. But Bradford comes on and says, "Kill everything if you want the mission to end". Wait, why can't we just evac on this one? That's what we normally do, dude.

Everything is two fucking codecs, a big robot, two squads of Advent advanceds plus officers, two sectoids, and a reinforcement ship on the next turn. Seriously? What happened to the stealthy guerilla thing?

---------------

Also the equivalent to base defense was super-hairy but fun.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Fabricated on February 07, 2016, 12:55:17 PM
What happened? I've been meaning to do this I just haven't been able to afford the scanner.

Battle Scanners reveal faceless aliens- so if you throw a battle scanner you better be ready to deal with them. Apparently there's a bug where if there are multiple it makes all of them reveal themselves!


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Falconeer on February 07, 2016, 02:23:44 PM
Not sure it has been mentioned before, but one thing I really dislike is that the maps are big, and the new turn limit often forces you to do a test run, where you just scout the map and get your party killed, and then try the real one. Don't get me wrong, it's entirely possible to complete them on the first run, but the design is really makes map intel so important that it's hard not to feel they are shitty for not giving it to you (excessive fog of war), so test running is the best way not to waste time by moving carefully on your first try only to fall into terrain traps you would have avoided if you could have at least seen it all. Map three (first VIP extraction) is my best example, but every map seems to suffer a bit of this. In previous game, the overwatch creeping was silly, but avoided feeling so blind. Maybe if I were them I would have made fog of war a little less aggressive.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: dd0029 on February 07, 2016, 03:04:19 PM
The maps aren't set. They are procedurally generated.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: lamaros on February 07, 2016, 03:23:00 PM
Stuck now on a mission that's really annoying--ADVENT data tap, I send all the troops concealed way far away to set up for ambushing, one drone guy does the tap through a window, 4 turns left. Very clever, yes?

But then on the tap, conceal drops. Fine, I get it. But Bradford comes on and says, "Kill everything if you want the mission to end". Wait, why can't we just evac on this one? That's what we normally do, dude.

Everything is two fucking codecs, a big robot, two squads of Advent advanceds plus officers, two sectoids, and a reinforcement ship on the next turn. Seriously? What happened to the stealthy guerilla thing?

---------------

Also the equivalent to base defense was super-hairy but fun.

You couldn't just call the evac?

Base defense was bad on the hardest difficulty, literally I couldn't move any units first turn or it aggroed the whole map, three of which at least ran to the ramp meaning a second turn loss (stunlancers). I had to replay it in a very gamey way where I didn't move so I only got one pod at a time. After the first rounds it was a cakewalk though. And you could simply not end it to farm kills if you were feeling cheesy.

I've actually had one impossible mission, the evac zone was occupied so it was moved as I approached, and it was another two moves away and I couldn't reach it at all. Had to redo the whole mission as that was bullshit.

Otherwise I've really enjoyed the procedural missions, good variety.

Things I've learned so far, from having to play really aggressive on the tough maps. Mimic beacons are amazing, battle scanners OK but no as good as specialist scan, ranger scouting is vital. And while special ammo and grenades are OK, they're no patch on the armors. Unless you have excess cores don't bother too much, the other things are better.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Sophismata on February 07, 2016, 04:43:43 PM
Things I've learned so far, from having to play really aggressive on the tough maps. Mimic beacons are amazing, battle scanners OK but no as good as specialist scan, ranger scouting is vital. And while special ammo and grenades are OK, they're no patch on the armors. Unless you have excess cores don't bother too much, the other things are better.

Acid grenade has actually been really good - it strips armour, applies a DoT effect, and makes the area where it exploded hazardous terrain.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: lamaros on February 07, 2016, 04:50:03 PM
Things I've learned so far, from having to play really aggressive on the tough maps. Mimic beacons are amazing, battle scanners OK but no as good as specialist scan, ranger scouting is vital. And while special ammo and grenades are OK, they're no patch on the armors. Unless you have excess cores don't bother too much, the other things are better.

Acid grenade has actually been really good - it strips armour, applies a DoT effect, and makes the area where it exploded hazardous terrain.

Absolutely, but it's a random chance, and the other grenades aren't as good. Meanwhile exo-suit also costs a core and gives you a rocket launcher and armor. So my first few cores will always go to those first. Once you have a few the others can be good, but the random outcome is really annoying. Being able to choose would help a lot.


Should we spoiler this stuff? Or just plot things?


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Sophismata on February 07, 2016, 05:13:26 PM
Things I've learned so far, from having to play really aggressive on the tough maps. Mimic beacons are amazing, battle scanners OK but no as good as specialist scan, ranger scouting is vital. And while special ammo and grenades are OK, they're no patch on the armors. Unless you have excess cores don't bother too much, the other things are better.

Acid grenade has actually been really good - it strips armour, applies a DoT effect, and makes the area where it exploded hazardous terrain.

Absolutely, but it's a random chance, and the other grenades aren't as good. Meanwhile exo-suit also costs a core and gives you a rocket launcher and armor. So my first few cores will always go to those first. Once you have a few the others can be good, but the random outcome is really annoying. Being able to choose would help a lot.


Should we spoiler this stuff? Or just plot things?

I got lucky then, since I tried out some experimental ammo and grenades before I was able to get the early armours, and landed tracer rounds and acid grenades. I haven't invested more cores into the grenades, though, as though I was pretty happy with the acid grenade I've started using other utility items (eg tracer rounds), and rocket launchers.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: lamaros on February 07, 2016, 06:07:36 PM


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: lamaros on February 07, 2016, 07:59:01 PM
So, skills. I have some firm views and hope others might point out things I've missed or not seen the power of.



Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Zetor on February 07, 2016, 11:07:08 PM
One note about about Specialists: even on a haxxor build, you want Threat Assessment over Covering Fire. The reason for this is that it allows you to give a friendly unit defense AND overwatch, and if you do this as the first action, it doesn't end the turn. Using it on your tank/frontliner is effectively giving them a free shot (one that works even if the enemy doesn't move) in addition to the defense boost. Only drawback I can see is if you want to use Aid Protocol each turn -- may be necessary on legendary? Ditto with Guardian over Ever Vigilant -- I don't think the latter would've helped me particularly in any mission except for the rare "run for the LZ" situation, but nailing THREE enemies with reaction fire in one turn in the last mission thanks to Guardian was worth the price of admission.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: lamaros on February 07, 2016, 11:24:56 PM
Generally speaking I like pro-active predicable skills, as there's enough randomness in the game already. Ever Vigilant just lets you get to some good flanking OW shots you might otherwise not get, or go on a desperate run from way out of the action. Chained overwatch shots could be great, but it's more memorable than reliable.

Aid protocol I view the same way, it's used to put someone in harm's way out of it, not as a proactive thing. If I'm in a combat already then anything I can't kill will die next turn, I'm not generally relying on overwatch shots when there's any risk. So I want to aid protocol as often as possible. I don't actually care too much about Covering Fire itself, though it can be useful for some enemies special actions.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Zetor on February 08, 2016, 12:09:26 AM
Fair nuff. How about using a dedicated Phantom scout that only unstealths near the end of the map (or maybe also takes Conceal to allow for some fighting inbetween)? In my experience it can turn each difficult pod into an ambush (sniper killzone through squadsight -> launch grenade of choice (acid / plasma / proxy) into clump -> pick up the pieces with the other soldiers, including the grenadier if he has Salvo already) that justifies the Ranger being essentially a dedicated non-combat unit for most of the mission, but this may not be applicable to Legendary.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: lamaros on February 08, 2016, 03:12:03 AM
Holy shit I just got Serial on my Ranger from the random skill.

Implacable gives it an extra run distance on the first kill. I just killed 8 units with one soldier in one turn (free reload weapon upgrade). Then after the last kill he ran to cover and concealed. Hilarious.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Jeff Kelly on February 08, 2016, 03:56:23 AM
Bought it on steam. Which was a bit of a mistake because the download is 34 Gig. So right now I'm playing the "watch the progress bar" mini game.

Looking forward to playing it this evening once the DL finishes.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Merusk on February 08, 2016, 08:03:18 AM
I'm Meh on this game. Since others are praising it, here's my criticisms. I'm not saying don't buy it, but I want to mind-dump some of my negative thoughts.

A lot of the problems I had with the first game are still there, with some new ones. Like the game engine's performance isn't great. They upped the graphics resources used and it grind anything else to a halt. I'm not sure the game is that much prettier/ using more particles/ whatever is the reasoning than the first game. All it's served to do is slow-down any background processes and make load times stupidly long. So I can't browse a web-page while waiting on the long-ass loading screen.

The randomizer still does the bullshit of, "This is the predetermined list of rolls for the turn/game." So the same action gets the same result. A 75% hit-chance that's a miss is always a miss. Hacking is the only one that doesn't seem subject to this. Plus I'm not certain it's bias on my part or not but the 60-70% range seems fucked. I don't hit 3/5 times. I started keeping a log here to see if it's bias on my part.

Things I really don't like in X2:
They touted that "enemies will patrol now." While they do, you run into the situation where a patrolling enemy coming into the combat and suddenly knowing where all of your units are. More realistic, but also a bigger headache overall.  Plus the enemies still get the, "They saw me, run for cover!" free turn. That was obnoxious in the first game, it's more obnoxious now.

The stealth mechanic that was added is only a thematic thing. As others have pointed out, scouting a location is actually punitive, not helpful. If you see three groups then you're going to have to take-down all three groups at once. Find a group, kill it, then advance.

This is no different than before, so the stealth mechanic is pointless. I had a ranger on a retaliation mission who I painstakingly ran through a mission making sure she was always concealed. She freed all of the civvies for me and ended the match still in concealment. No achievement, no recognition, nothing. This is underscored by the fact there doesn't seem to be any way of accomplishing missions IN stealth. The devs didn't even consider someone would do this. They just threw it in there, "because it's like you're the aliens now!"

Too damn many animations. I realized yesterday morning that about half my time between load screens was taken-up by animation. I want a way to turn them off. Between all the "enemies run for cover" and "hacking coolness" and "Skyranger takes off/ skyranger lands" and "you run run for your next spot" and "high action shoot-down" and "ooh, new facility" animations I just got tired of it after only a month game-time.

Too damn many mandatory interruptions. Game events shouldn't feel like spam. I want to scan a location and I have ~6hours left on a scan. Red-alert pops-up and I think, "fuck it I'll finish this THEN run to it." Nope, take that red alert RIGHT NOW or it's gone for the month. Fuck. Ok, that's on me.

Now next scan as I'm building a radio tower? Three interruptions for non-mandatory events, there's no "Ok continue" button on the pop-up window. It interrupts what I'm doing so I have to go back to hit "scan" button again. That's terrible UI design and is already annoying.

The resource stuff makes this feel like a different game than X-Com or the reboot. Struggling to do anything at the upper-end of difficulty is one thing. Always struggling when you're trying to kick the tires on a lower difficulty (I'm playing Normal) makes you hate life. You feel like a failure because you don't know the optimal path from the start. It leads to reload/ restart-fever as you question every decision because it feels unrecoverable if you make the wrong one.

I want to really like this game. It's got a lot of cool elements to it. The classes are a lot more fun than X1 and there's some pretty cool stuff that's new like the ammo, but the minor annoyances kind of overshadow it.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: koro on February 08, 2016, 08:36:01 AM
The idea that some of you are putting out there that stealth and scouting is not just useless, but actually punished is a head-scratcher to me.

If I'm sending my Phantom Ranger out to scout, and he sees a patrol? My still-stealthed squad goes the other way around. When we meet a pod we want to make contact with, the crew sets up an ambush and either the Ranger (who goes back into concealment after engagement) or the Sharpshooter triggers it, and the patrol we bypassed never shows up. Any time a patrol does show up as soon as I engage a pod, it's been a failure on my part to properly maneuver my squad 100% of the time.

I've even avoided engaging roughly half the enemies on a VIP escort mission through thorough Ranger scouting, and that's with 4/5 of my squad out of concealment. And a Ranger in stealth can trivialize the otherwise extremely brutal base defense event by booking it around and to the generator you have to destroy, and letting your Sharpshooter squadsight it down over a couple turns.

Stealth is extremely handy, and stealth-focused Rangers are a massively useful asset.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Jeff Kelly on February 08, 2016, 08:47:09 AM
The randomizer still does the bullshit of, "This is the predetermined list of rolls for the turn/game." So the same action gets the same result. A 75% hit-chance that's a miss is always a miss. Hacking is the only one that doesn't seem subject to this. Plus I'm not certain it's bias on my part or not but the 60-70% range seems fucked. I don't hit 3/5 times. I started keeping a log here to see if it's bias on my part.

I've watched a few let's players and everyone is expressing the same sentiment. One described it as "snipers are a shitshow because they miss all the time even at 80%". I suppose that this is not a bug because it was similar in the previous game where your squad seemed to miss a whole lot even at high hit-%. I assume that the game applies a hidden stat to your hit chance.

As for predetermined rolls. They do this allegedly to prevent save scumming.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: lamaros on February 08, 2016, 09:13:51 AM
Yeah the rng isn't bugged, people just have a lot of confirmation bias.

The engine is buggy and very slow, and there are a lot of animations I wish I could skip past. Otherwise my experience is completely different to you Merusk.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Jeff Kelly on February 08, 2016, 09:23:46 AM
Yeah, generally I'd also say that it's probably confirmation bias. In case of the two X-Com titles though I'm inclined to blame it on something else.

I've seen this sentiment being expressed a lot with the first title and also with the current re-release. Which might still be confirmation bias even if it is expressed by a lot of people. Since the game is doing a whole lot of 'hidden' stuff though - like for example pre-determining all of the rolls before turn starts - I had always assumed that the game is doing more than it lets on.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Zetor on February 08, 2016, 09:52:40 AM
Thing is, games like XCOM (or... Blood Bowl) are essentially just different variations of Risk Management Simulator 2016. Yea, you'll be missing 98% shots ever so often, and if you take five 70% shots at an enemy, you may just miss all of them. You'll be getting double skulls every 36 blocks, too. Essentially, the game expects you to prepare for the worst and have backup plans (through positioning and guaranteed damage like grenades and combat protocol) ready in case the RNG decides to screw you. Of course the RNG may STILL screw you really bad after that, too... welp. :xcom:

If there's any fudging of the RNG, it's actually in favor of the player, just as in XCOM1 (http://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Chance_to_Hit_(EU2012)#When_The_Game_Cheats...) (at lower difficulties you'd get a better hit% than the UI showed to you, get scaling bonuses as you lost soldiers, etc). Current unsubstantiated rumors about XCOM2 are:
Quote
Currently on Commander and below:
Added aim for Xcom after consecutive misses.
Reduced aim for aliens after consecutive hits.
Added aim for Xcom if squad reduced to <4 soldiers.
Reduced aim for aliens if Xcom is reduced to <4 soldiers.
Extra hit chance multiplier on all Xcom shots (not on Commander difficulty).
XCOM1 eventually added the "Save Scum" second wave option that allowed you to reset the seed for attacks when loading a game, I expect this will happen for XCOM2 too.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Jeff Kelly on February 08, 2016, 10:17:06 AM
Well you somewhat proved my point that they have mechanism to fudge the RNG in place.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Ceryse on February 08, 2016, 10:20:35 AM
You can, actually, save scum a bit. I know this from experience during a "fuck, that's bullshit!!" moment that led to my squad of 6 missing 5 90%+ shots in a row, and would have led to at least 4 squad members dying. If you do the same actions again in the same order? Almost always the same result. However, when I did them in a different order (the same actions, exactly, but having the firing order, but not targets, swapped around) I got different results; 2 crits, 2 normal hits and 1 miss instead of the prior 5 misses. I haven't, thankfully, been seeing too many instances of missing a lot of high percentage chances.

Also, I'm not finding resources to be that big of a problem to get together. Sure, I've been hard pressed on supplies now and then (in part because I build pretty much at least 1 of everything, and partly because my mission options/scanning targets were more intel based than supplies, or 'here's some more utterly useless rookies to scan for, again'), at least on Normal. Once you unlock the Black Market and get even just a couple engineers together.. you can catch up decently (though I've been forced to delay going to the first black site for awhile because of it, and saw my Avatar meter get close to triggering the count-down).

Amusingly, my Specialist (who is mainly going down the combat hacker route) is my second highest for kills (by a decent margin!), and is only out-paced by my long distance sniper with godly aim. With the exception of a mission here or there (due to injuries; my first grenadier, the specialist and long range sniper missed 1-2 missions each), I've been using the same squad for everything just because they get shit done. Been enjoying my 2 grenadier, specialist, ranger, sniper make-up a lot (sixth spot is generally another sniper I'm slowly training for Gunslinger, or a second ranger if the mission type isn't likely to be sniper friendly).


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Jeff Kelly on February 08, 2016, 10:26:50 AM
It was the same in XCom 1. The RNG pre-rolls everything but it only has the same outcome if you use the exact same orders and targets.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Zetor on February 08, 2016, 11:20:30 AM
Yea. It's not a new concept, btw: Jagged Alliance 2 used the same system (pre-roll a bunch of numbers from a fixed seed), so you could 'waste' the bad rolls by having guys fire in a different order... but if you reloaded just to try the shot again, you got the same result.
Well you somewhat proved my point that they have mechanism to fudge the RNG in place.
Well, they only use that power for ~good~  :awesome_for_real:

Seriously though, the RNG is fair (except on lower difficulties where it's cheating in favor of the player). If you really want to get into it, some guy has decompiled and analyzed the actual code (http://www.schwanenlied.me/yawning/XCOM/XCOMPRNG.html) and some other guy did a statistical analysis round-up (http://www.win-vector.com/blog/2012/12/how-to-test-xcom-dice-rolls-for-fairness/). EDIT: of course this is for XCOM1, but I seriously doubt they'd make the RNG unfair just to spite players for XCOM2

As for what it means in gameplay, eh, it is what it is. I've had some clutch 32% hits that saved my bacon, but also had a 99% attack miss on a 1 hp enemy... so I made sure to have someone with an upgraded weapon that does at least 2 damage even if you miss ('Advanced Stock' upgrade) for situations like that. Overall I think games like Invisible Inc with their fully-deterministic outcomes can be much more interesting tactically, but those approaches wouldn't really work for a game like XCOM. All you can do is stack as many guaranteed damage sources as possible, and pray RNGesus doesn't decide to screw you for 3 turns straight.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: WayAbvPar on February 08, 2016, 11:26:21 AM
Broke down and bought this. Having a lot of fun so far. It IS very frustrating at times, but I like the new storyline and approach a lot.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Khaldun on February 08, 2016, 12:11:23 PM
One tactic that I am enjoying a lot is having a concealed Ranger spot a turret, then having a non-concealed trooper take control of the turret with Haywire, then using the turret to rip into a pod that was beyond the visibility range of my squad. Even better if I have two Haywire squaddies and two turrets. The enemies waste a lot of effort trying to kill the turrets, the turrets end up dead, then the aliens generally try to come after me but I've already set up a kill chute for them.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Teleku on February 08, 2016, 12:42:27 PM
Purchased this at full price because of the good reviews of you all.  Not that far in, but really loving it.  It's an improved version of the first game, which is one of my favorites of all time, so I am a happy man.  So much fun!

I also find it hilarious to play a game where its assumed you fucked up and lost the first one.  Warcraft 2 is the only other game off hand that I can think of that took that approach (but still not the same since you could choose to play as either side in Warcraft 1.  It was just unique for the time in that they went with team evil winning for the sequel).


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Threash on February 08, 2016, 12:44:55 PM
So if you hit caps lock after a mission it finishes loading a lot faster.  Like near instantly when i do it.    :headscratch:


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Threash on February 08, 2016, 01:02:36 PM
(http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/307737558724779320/F76949E1D00304EF331B801A0F9DEF3F0E296987/)

You can just call her Terminator Kelly.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: lamaros on February 08, 2016, 05:00:01 PM
Yep, it's just absurd what serial rangers they can do.

I got new upgrades for the gun, first 3 reloads free, +15% crit, etc.

Shredder rockets and then the ranger does the rest.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Threash on February 08, 2016, 08:27:37 PM
Yeah i was just in a "pull off a miracle or this is a full party wipe" situation and she dropped a full health shielded muton, full health shielded snake thing, full health snake thing, and then finished off a hurt advanced officer with a wrist rocket because i forgot i needed shotgun kills to keep the serial streak going.  At this point i just keep her in stealth as an ace in the hole when shit gets real.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Sophismata on February 08, 2016, 09:25:31 PM
I don't really agree. You can avoid the timers and kill all enemy elements on nearly all missions just by calling an early evac.

I didn't realise this was an option on all missions. It opens up some new bugs, but it's a lifesaver and makes ironman actually enjoyable. Only lost one squad so far, but I've now had quite a few close calls (evac-ing out while under fire and flanked after hitting the objective).

If you don't kill all enemies you get a mission failed debrief, which is weird. But the councilman treats it as a successful mission, so as far as I can tell there's no long term strategic issues with bailing after securing the objective (aside from not looting the corpses).


The engine is buggy and very slow, and there are a lot of animations I wish I could skip past. Otherwise my experience is completely different to you Merusk.

The constant pauses are very annoying. Animations don't flow into each other, there's very noticeable lag between commands and actions and it gets worse the longer you play the game. I haven't encountered the issues Merusk described regarding background processes — load times for me are ok, but I'm running this on a new system that's only about 3 months old.


Things I really don't like in X2:
They touted that "enemies will patrol now." While they do, you run into the situation where a patrolling enemy coming into the combat and suddenly knowing where all of your units are. More realistic, but also a bigger headache overall.  Plus the enemies still get the, "They saw me, run for cover!" free turn. That was obnoxious in the first game, it's more obnoxious now.

The stealth mechanic that was added is only a thematic thing. As others have pointed out, scouting a location is actually punitive, not helpful. If you see three groups then you're going to have to take-down all three groups at once. Find a group, kill it, then advance.

The idea that some of you are putting out there that stealth and scouting is not just useless, but actually punished is a head-scratcher to me.

If I'm sending my Phantom Ranger out to scout, and he sees a patrol? My still-stealthed squad goes the other way around. When we meet a pod we want to make contact with, the crew sets up an ambush and either the Ranger (who goes back into concealment after engagement) or the Sharpshooter triggers it, and the patrol we bypassed never shows up. Any time a patrol does show up as soon as I engage a pod, it's been a failure on my part to properly maneuver my squad 100% of the time.

I've even avoided engaging roughly half the enemies on a VIP escort mission through thorough Ranger scouting, and that's with 4/5 of my squad out of concealment. And a Ranger in stealth can trivialize the otherwise extremely brutal base defense event by booking it around and to the generator you have to destroy, and letting your Sharpshooter squadsight it down over a couple turns.

Stealth is extremely handy, and stealth-focused Rangers are a massively useful asset.

Scouting is absolutely a liability, and for me the optimal play route has been to ignore the stealth mechanic entirely since it doesn't do anything aside from get you overwhelmed. Engage each patrol one at a time and never scout ahead because if you accidentally reveal a second patrol you'll need to deal with two groups of enemies. Even if you're concealed and have found 2+ patrols, you need to somehow lose LoS to one of them before engaging or they both know exactly where all of your soldiers are on the map. It feels weird. Once I realised that placing my soldiers into positions with low visibility was better than high visibility, fights changed from large scale clusterfucks into small, easily managed slaughterhouses.

XCOM1 tactics of setting up in high cover, sending a guy ahead and then running back remain very effective. It's actually faster in many cases than running to an objective because you kill patrols in one or two turns a pop. There is much less risk involved, and you won't get broadsided by ADVENT reinforcements.

The bigger issue is that enemy patrols follow fundamentally different rules to your own soldiers which undermines the game's verisimilitude.

I absolutely agree with Merusk on this.



Regarding the RNG, at first I thought it was a little frustrating but I've firmly come to believe that, at least in Commander difficulty, it's actually lenient (errs in favour of the player). I've had numerous situations where soldiers have survived what would have been certain death were it the other way around (especially regarding codex flank teleport attacks and general enemy melee attacks missing a LOT). The problem is, because each squad member is so vital to your performance (given the way the action economy works), losing even one to RNG is a big blow. In UFO Defence it wasn't too big a deal because you could have 12 or more troops on a mission.



Regarding skills, there are some very good potential synergies from the AWC, which was the first facility I built and I recommend the same to everyone else. It can change the priority of certain skills. For example, I got the skill that adds +20 to aim when you hunker down on my ranger, so I took the skill that gives you a free hunker if you didn't shoot. Now every time I overwatch, I have the cover bonus from hunker, and +20 aim on my next shot (continuing into the next turn). Better than untouchable given that most soldiers caught out of position take 2+ shots.

The strategic layer - constantly in need of intel, supplies, or time - has been excellent and managing it has been lots of fun. Probably the strongest element of XCOM2 by far, aside from the theming (which as I said before works remarkably well).


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: lamaros on February 08, 2016, 10:31:59 PM
Yeah, AWC first is my go to next run. I only have a few troops with the random bonuses, and they're so much better than the other guys.

I'm looking forward to playing commander difficulty. Legendary is a challenge, but possibly not as much fun. I still haven't been able to find the time and space to build Psi lab, and I'm near the end of the game now, so I'll probably only get a Psi troop on the last couple of missions.

(Granted I've done a few things wrong, like not sold anywhere near as much stuff on the black market as I could have. I think I could have sold about 300 alien alloys earlier on without missing anything, which would be 2700 supplies worth, which could have bought me more engineers, which could have got more of the base cleared. Also a lot of the autopsies are useless and I wasted lots of research time on those when I should have been charging up the guns and armor tree.)

I'm also at the point now where I'm avoiding a few of the missions that pop up, as I'm sick of doing one every two days. The cost of losing a comm or some supplies isn't huge, I can just rebuild them or sell stuff on the black market.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Sophismata on February 08, 2016, 10:50:37 PM
I went straight down the Psi tree, it's my first facility after the essentials (AWC, more contacts, etc). It's time intensive though, which means I've been hugging the Avatar Project countdown (generally waiting to the last day or so before hitting a facility).

Unlike your other troops, Psi ops get all the skills, eventually. So far I don't really have any missions feedback, so I'm not sure if they'll measure up to Rangers in effectiveness.


In XCOM: Enemy Unknown the poor balance of Impossible difficulty (complete with easy, but tedious and obnoxious gameplay) led me to start off at Commander this time. Legend will be next.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: lamaros on February 08, 2016, 11:09:31 PM
I very nearly lost legend on the strategy layer, without knowing anything at all. But having had any experience I think it will be almost impossible to lose there unless you're losing soldiers.

On the tactical level it's pretty well turned, but mimic beacons are overpowered good still. With them and research optimization (I hit pretty much the hardest enemies in mission before I had the final weapons and armor researched) it should be fairly likely for a patient player to finish ironman on it. In a less 'gamey' way than the first game.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Megrim on February 09, 2016, 01:37:43 AM
I very nearly lost legend on the strategy layer, without knowing anything at all. But having had any experience I think it will be almost impossible to lose there unless you're losing soldiers.

On the tactical level it's pretty well turned, but mimic beacons are overpowered good still. With them and research optimization (I hit pretty much the hardest enemies in mission before I had the final weapons and armor researched) it should be fairly likely for a patient player to finish ironman on it. In a less 'gamey' way than the first game.

Does it still have the same difficulty curve like the original, where once you survive to 1st tier weapons / armour it become a progressively easier cakewalk?


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Jeff Kelly on February 09, 2016, 03:50:24 AM
I've played a few missions last night.

The tutorial is pretty obnoxious in it's "no, you have to do what we think you should do now" way of making you play. It's actually worse than the one in XCOM. Especially since it is forcing you to do objectively bad or at least counterintuitive moves (shoot at an alien with a much lower hit-% than other available tragets, forcing you to move a soldier out of cover just so that the game can kill him next turn).

It's the first tutorial that actively wants me to kill team mates just so that it can show me the death animations and advance the plot. At least in the previous game the "we'll now kill your squad' part was less obvious and felt more 'natural'.

As for the new tactics layer. They should have scrapped a few of the mechanics from the previous game. The game doesn't reward active play even though it forces you into an more active role due to the turn timers. If you don't properly scout and 'train' patrols you will end up in a resonance cascade of uncovering patrols that uncover patrols which leads you to having to fight multiple sets of enemies. They should have scrapped the surprise round move of the enemies or found a different way of uncovering additional enemies.

Since all uncovered enemies instantly know the location of all of your toons once concealment ends you will end up in undefendable positions if you accidentally uncover more than one patrol. Which makes scouting an active liability and actually leads you to want to play as conservatively as possible given the turn limits.

This makes me hate the turn timers even more.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Sir T on February 09, 2016, 07:50:01 AM
I can understand the free move to an extent, but if they are detected by a stealthed character they should just continue the patrol as normal until they are seen by a non stealthed unit.

Of course, that would require extra coding and we are up against the release date. Fuck it.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: lamaros on February 09, 2016, 08:01:36 AM
I very nearly lost legend on the strategy layer, without knowing anything at all. But having had any experience I think it will be almost impossible to lose there unless you're losing soldiers.

On the tactical level it's pretty well turned, but mimic beacons are overpowered good still. With them and research optimization (I hit pretty much the hardest enemies in mission before I had the final weapons and armor researched) it should be fairly likely for a patient player to finish ironman on it. In a less 'gamey' way than the first game.

Does it still have the same difficulty curve like the original, where once you survive to 1st tier weapons / armour it become a progressively easier cakewalk?

Hard to know, as I've not replayed and gotten ahead of it. Certainly even at max research the missions aren't sleepwalk easy, but if you're fully geared and prepared with top level soldiers (I only have three, they level slowly when they spend half the game injured) I expect you're at about the same difficulty at the end as at the start. It's just the middle where you can get behind or ahead I'd guess.

Armor upgrades are marginal compared to the rank bonuses, IIRC. Weapons are more significant, but you can probably finish the game with mid armor provided you get the right support items.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Threash on February 09, 2016, 08:52:45 AM
I very nearly lost legend on the strategy layer, without knowing anything at all. But having had any experience I think it will be almost impossible to lose there unless you're losing soldiers.

On the tactical level it's pretty well turned, but mimic beacons are overpowered good still. With them and research optimization (I hit pretty much the hardest enemies in mission before I had the final weapons and armor researched) it should be fairly likely for a patient player to finish ironman on it. In a less 'gamey' way than the first game.

Does it still have the same difficulty curve like the original, where once you survive to 1st tier weapons / armour it become a progressively easier cakewalk?

It's not really the weapon/armor tiers that make a real difference.  Things become much easier once you get the "completely trivialize a fight" items like flashbangs, mimic beacons and specially psi troopers.  If i manage to mind control or hack control an enemy i pretty much won the map.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: tmp on February 09, 2016, 10:49:18 AM
You can just call her Terminator Kelly.
Jane got "wolverine" as the random nickname in my game. I gave her the self-heal vest and talon rounds, and she definitely lives up to that name :grin:


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Merusk on February 09, 2016, 01:23:05 PM
I very nearly lost legend on the strategy layer, without knowing anything at all. But having had any experience I think it will be almost impossible to lose there unless you're losing soldiers.

On the tactical level it's pretty well turned, but mimic beacons are overpowered good still. With them and research optimization (I hit pretty much the hardest enemies in mission before I had the final weapons and armor researched) it should be fairly likely for a patient player to finish ironman on it. In a less 'gamey' way than the first game.

Does it still have the same difficulty curve like the original, where once you survive to 1st tier weapons / armour it become a progressively easier cakewalk?

It's not really the weapon/armor tiers that make a real difference.  Things become much easier once you get the "completely trivialize a fight" items like flashbangs, mimic beacons and specially psi troopers.  If i manage to mind control or hack control an enemy i pretty much won the map.

Yes. Very true.

I had a critical success on my combat-hacker support that won me +20 to her skill. Combined with the level-up bonuses, now that she's a Lt. her Hacking skill is 150+. 

Last night I got caught by the chasing UFO finally (I let it happen, I wanted to see the fight.)  I took over the MEC unit they sent against me and ripped two platoons to shreds with the Micro-Rockets it had because they were clumped. It was glorious.

That plus the Kill-Zone sniper, +4 runspeed Stealth ranger, and a no-action-reload clip on my heavy made the fight pretty damn trivial.

So I'd say the combat CAN be trivialized at lower levels. As I said I'm playing normal. I tore them up so bad it was almost disappointing.

Also - fire ammo on a sniper is a good thing.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: lamaros on February 09, 2016, 03:24:39 PM
Yeah, I'm a little disappointed at how good the mimic beacon is, they need to tune it a little. Currently it can trivialise quite a few things. With a few of them and some emp rounds/bombs you can go gung go in to a large number of battles.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Zetor on February 09, 2016, 03:40:55 PM
Yea, mimic beacons are insane. That said, they aren't as overpowered as ghost grenades and mimetic skin were in XCOM1 (the mimic clone can die, for one) and getting a good psi operative with reliable mind control is like having an infinite-use mimic beacon on a stick.

I also agree that flashbangs fill a similar role in the early game, though at least they allow enemies to shoot (ineffectively) at your soldiers.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: lamaros on February 09, 2016, 04:49:00 PM
The problem with mimic beacons is that the aliens will shoot at it above anything else if they can see it, even troops in the open or flanked, and so it causes them to rush up together on one spot, leaving easy flank shots, grenade clusters, etc for you next turn.

It need to be changed so they just consider it like any other troop, so you need to still pay attention to soldier positions. At the moment you just put a mimic in cover with aid protocol where all the enemies can see it, and laugh all the way to the bank.

Everything else is much more situational and needs to be used cleverly, but the mimic beacon is almost mindless. I think it can still be powerful and useful, but at the moment it's almost broken.

A more basic mimic beacon could still be used to flush out chrissalids, to take the point, or to draw away that one nasty enemy, without also meaning you can throw the rest of your tactical play out the window.

Edit: Grappling hooks dont count as an action. You can grapple and still sniper fire. There are a lot of things like this...

I'll just link this, I know most of them already, but I've probably played more and watched more preview stuff than others. Might be some handy tips here.

 https://www.reddit.com/r/Xcom/comments/44xs8y/psa_lesserknown_pro_tips/


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Sophismata on February 09, 2016, 07:32:01 PM
Agreed on the mimic beacon, I've used it to set up flanks, save panicked soldiers that ran out into danger, distract Chrysalids, and protect someone that's run over to save a disguised Faceless (which I wouldn't risk without the beacon or something else as a fallback, if anyone's being judgemental :-P ).

Good new is, it's looking like mod support is excellent this time around (and there is a full post-production DLC rollout planned) so I expect the blatant balance issues will be addressed. Hopefully the performance troubles will be fixed in time and the modding community can correct the stupid scouting / general enemy behaviour issues (features!) that I know Firaxis won't ever change.

Beacons need to be treated like a regular troop, or only attract 1 or 2 enemies. Still, it's nice to have these cool utility items — reminds me of using nightsticks and smoke grenades in UFO Defence to help control encounters.

Edit: Also, re hackers, it seems to be not that well known that every time your specalist gets a successful hack on a mission they get +5 to hacking. So do those towers, even if they seem trivial. Oh, and grappling hooks dont count as an action. You can grapple and still sniper fire. There are a lot of things like this...

This I did not know! That's actually pretty important, and unfortunate as I lost one of my older specialists recently and this kinda thing exacerbates the discrepancy between a newer recruit / squaddie and an experienced trooper who's been on many missions. (Got a save where this specialist dies to a bug; she's killed by successfully hacking a tower. I have a save file of it, it's repeatable, every time she hacks this tower immediately afterwards she takes repeated damage until she dies, during her turn, before she gets her second action. It's weird.)


From that linked reddit post, here are some things that I wish the game made clear (though computer game mechanics in general are almost always stupidly murky):

Quote
  • Placing proximity mines does not break concealment.
  • Reaching LoS (and therefor gaining control of) a “hidden” VIP will break a unit’s concealment, regardless if there are any enemies in range. In addition, capturing any objective will also break concealment.
  • Unconscious units that do not make it to the Skyranger will show up as “captured” and can be reacquired as the VIP in rescue missions.
  • Knocking the floor out from under a turret is a guaranteed kill.
  • The insta-kill from a repeater can proc off the guaranteed damage from a stock and/or venom rounds. (A grenadier's saturation can apparently proc the repeater as well - thanks /u/C4ptainR3dbeard)
  • Enemies in the fog of war can still be damaged by AoE effects such as the EXO Suit’s rocket launcher. And as long as you don’t have LoS on these enemies after attacking, the pod will not “activate” until its turn begins. [Note: this is actually untrue, if you don't have LoS the enemies will never react to you blowing them apart turn after turn with explosives. Source: I've done this myself.]
  • [The big one] Specialists gain 5 to their tech (hacking) score at the end of a mission if they successfully hacked something. (Thanks /u/rankzerox)
  • Detonating a vehicle to kill an enemy without first damaging the enemy awards no XP or kill count. (Thanks /u/Grimy_Bunyip)
  • Walking over a water/liquid tile while burning will remove the effect. (Thanks /u/Grimy_Bunyip)


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: lamaros on February 09, 2016, 08:18:44 PM
Hmm, I'm not as sure about the specialists now, I took it at value after a few people said it, as my best specialist is way higher than my others, but I might have just been forgetting a bonus and the range differences. Might need further testing.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Threash on February 09, 2016, 09:55:55 PM
Hmm, I'm not as sure about the specialists now, I took it at value after a few people said it, as my best specialist is way higher than my others, but I might have just been forgetting a bonus and the range differences. Might need further testing.

My specialist just went up 5 points in hacking after a mission with a successful hack.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: lamaros on February 10, 2016, 12:29:32 AM
Another thing I just found out, some missions have chests you can access for extra drops.

This game is very good, but it still feels like they've cut half the features (scientists and engineers leveling, etc) and left a few things unexplained to get it out in time. When/if it gets the bugs fixed and the first expansion I think it'll be really really good. Especially now they have good mod tools to borrow ideas off.


Anyone seen a mod gat makes the special ammo armor, etc not random?


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Threash on February 10, 2016, 10:27:51 AM
Just saw this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hU8rxUrl1kU) on reddit.  I think it perfectly captures the essence of this game.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Merusk on February 10, 2016, 10:38:10 AM
Yup, that's pretty accurate.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Khaldun on February 10, 2016, 01:11:16 PM
Yeah.  Love the moment where the soundtrack shifts.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: lamaros on February 10, 2016, 05:33:54 PM
Finally finished the game.

With bug fixes and a few quality of life patches/mods this game will likely be one of the best TBS game I've ever played. As it is at the moment it's still really really good despite the issues. For anyone on the fence I highly recommend it.

Probably going to just tool around with the character pool and some of the quality of life mods for a little, and hope there is a patch for some of the bugs and optimisation issues before I do an ironman run.

It's a shame about the 6 soldier cap, so many of my veterans had to miss out on the final battle.

Megrim: The last few missions, once I had maxed out research and equipment and finally got a Psi operative up, were easier. The last mission was one of the easier in the game. I'm speculating, but I think that going back in with an optimised build on the strategy layer might mean you'd get to this point sooner than I did. That said, I didn't ironman and did replay a few missions over the course (I failed base defence about 15 times, but then I can replay that one for free, so it doesn't really count), so I expect ironman would still be a good challenge on legendary.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Threash on February 10, 2016, 07:24:30 PM
I know they are already pretty op as it is but psi damage abilities should bypass shields just like they bypass armor.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Fabricated on February 10, 2016, 09:47:31 PM
I dicked around on the geoscape grinding out supplies/intel/research and stomping shit on retaliation missions and everything that popped up rather than bothering with the Avatar Project stuff until I was 3 dots off it being completed.

Then I marathoned 3 Avatar Project site assults in a row and knocked off almost all of the progress. Getting all my Plasma weaponry and powered armor first really helped- I clowned a Sectopod and Archon with them never being able to attack. Incidentally haywire protocol is insanely useful and grind out a good hacker to use it.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Megrim on February 10, 2016, 10:22:38 PM
It sounds a bit like it might be worthwhile to wait for the inevitable expansion like with EW, so that they can smooth out / add the missing bits.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: lamaros on February 10, 2016, 10:54:50 PM
It sounds a bit like it might be worthwhile to wait for the inevitable expansion like with EW, so that they can smooth out / add the missing bits.

Yeah, I expect you will get better value then. There are three DLC due by summer (US), so I expect by the time the last of them comes out the game will the best value prior to a big expansion. However the game is still very very good now, and I expect will be more re-playable than the first game. Anyone who likes TBS should get it now, one of the best ever.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Khaldun on February 11, 2016, 05:58:24 AM
Stat tracking for the playerbase.

https://xcom.com/xcom-2-stats

I'm kind of surprised that so many deaths are from collateral damage.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Merusk on February 11, 2016, 07:17:53 AM
I'm not. First there's the falling damage which is a new thing (at least, I never fell to death in X1) and then there's cars exploding. It's very easy to use a car for necessary cover only to have an alien patrol pop up and tag the auto which then explodes at the end of their turn. Or wipe the floor out from under your troops, having them fall to their death as in the above video.

Also fire and persistant damage like poison are probably in that category as well.

ed: Also, hearing you guys talk about Chryssalids and seeing Zombies on the death chart makes me realize I haven't encountered one at all yet. Only just hit the new version of a floater last night, too. I must still be way behind on the story. I haven't researched Plasma weaps but have power armor and know that goo is people.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: lamaros on February 11, 2016, 07:21:42 AM
I'm not at all confident in those stats. The number of times I've had a mission that's said "100% accuracy" when it clearly wasn't makes me doubt their stat gathering system.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Jade Falcon on February 11, 2016, 07:29:31 AM
1.1 billion in property damage due to windows and doors being kicked in and jumped through.When I've defeated the aliens I won't be leaving a forwarding address.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Threash on February 11, 2016, 09:18:07 AM
I'm not at all confident in those stats. The number of times I've had a mission that's said "100% accuracy" when it clearly wasn't makes me doubt their stat gathering system.

It says "shot accuracy" i know for a fact it does not count sword misses.  I'm surprised at the zombie kills, I've never even had a zombie get an actual turn.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Khaldun on February 11, 2016, 10:59:16 AM
Yeah, I'm also surprised--a zombie up makes me target the sectoid who made him, 2 for 1 deal. But I also haven't gotten to chryssalids, and their zombies sometimes got me in XCom1.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Threash on February 11, 2016, 11:00:43 AM
It might be from gatekeepers, I've only faced one and was in a good enough position to one turn it.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: tmp on February 11, 2016, 11:47:26 AM
But I also haven't gotten to chryssalids, and their zombies sometimes got me in XCom1.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: dd0029 on February 11, 2016, 04:40:19 PM
Chryssalids are rather rare or were for me. I think I only saw them twice, once on a story mission where I trivialized them with a mimic beacon and once on a Retaliation mission.

On that last mission, most of it is trivial, but that last segment is terrible and I lay that squarely on the handcrafted map. It's terribly arranged. The long no cover corridors showed back up. It probably would have been easier had I brought a sniper instead of my gunslinger. I was expecting tighter confines like in all of the other buildings. I can't say I went wrong with my two fully leveled psi operatives.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: lamaros on February 11, 2016, 05:38:34 PM
Aye, gunslingers just flat out aren't that great medium to late game, better to bring a grenadier or a sniper.

I'd likely go in with two Psi operatives, one Ranger, one Sniper, one Specialist, and one Grenadier. Give half of them war/exo suits, so they can fire the heavy weapons.

Dominate, Mind Control and Haywire Protocol are that great for the final battle. With the ranger scouting there's no reason for any of your troops to almost ever come under fire.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Threash on February 12, 2016, 07:46:01 AM
Gunslingers with specialty ammo rock.  I put blue screen rounds on mine and she can take down a sectopod in one turn.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Samprimary on February 12, 2016, 08:57:20 AM
gunslingers will be INVALUABLE in my ironman run. The other tree is optimal in any mission where shit doesn't go south, so it's the go-to tree for when you're essentially reloading all of your fat catastrophes. But if you can't or won't reload, a gunslinger is perfectly suited to being incredibly adaptable to crisis. Any turn where you end up saying 'oh shit' is the sort of condition where you really enjoy those pistoleer talents.

That said, absolutely nothing keeps you from mixing and matching skills between the trees, so it's not like you have to forego Kill Zone to be a gunslinger. And, in a rare moment of XCOM being NICE to you, you can respec soldiers completely. They aren't locked into their selections forever. You can be a pistoleer all through the early and midgame, then respec your surviving snipers to get a hold of the talents which really only shine in lategame, like Deadeye.

That said, I believe that the best snipers are a hybrid build: Long Watch, Lightning Hands, Quickdraw, Kill Zone, Steady Hands, Fan Fire.

Serial is underwhelming by the time you can access it, Kill Zone is amazing enough to be mandatory, Death from Above is much more lackluster in practice than I would have thought (it's essentially free reloads for camped snipers between turns). So, with this combination of skills, you have premium stationary rifle capacity with long watch, kill zone, and steady hands, and the complete "oh shit" button with lightning hands, quickdraw, and fan fire, ready for use the instant your sharpshooter's best laid plans do not survive contact with the enemy.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Merusk on February 12, 2016, 09:43:37 AM
Agreed. My hybrid Lt. sniper is far more useful than my pure Colonel.

Lightning Hands alone has proven to be more useful over time than it first appears, with my ability to take-down problem 1-4 life enemies without wasting a great long-range opportunity or another soldier's attack move. The "Small" penalty from Deadeye was a ~20% loss on a shot for my colonel last night. From 77% down to 56%. No thanks.

DFA vs. Quickdraw? DFA looked good, but the maps take a lot of pleasure of making sure you don't have snipers nests the whole round, so I find I'm at the same elevation or below my targets too often.

I can absolutely see Fan Fire being a requirement for Ironman play. Serial fits for taking-down massed enemies I've exposed and chewed-up, though. I spread out more than is probably good for Ironman play.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Samprimary on February 12, 2016, 11:09:18 AM
yeah it makes it a kind of a lopsided situation where your sharpshooter is the most able to handle being caught out of place of any class. I  mean, you can fire your pistol five times in a single round, and you also have the ability to fire on your first turn and then elect to run away in the second if your salvo didn't go as planned.

Serial sounded awesome, and in the early game it would have been. DFA sounded awesome, and would have been if it allowed a second rifle shot. return fire is legitimately cool but it sure ain't long watch.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Threash on February 12, 2016, 12:33:55 PM
Serial on my conceal ranger turned her into an unstoppable killing machine, pretty underwhelming on my sniper sharpshooter.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Ceryse on February 12, 2016, 01:02:45 PM
My long rang sniper, conversely, became the god of death once serial became available. He was already the one with the highest kill count (by a decent, but not huge amount) but once he got serial? He began to out-pace everyone by leaps and bounds. Have to chew up enemies first? Not really a problem with two grenadiers, a gunslinger, specialist (combat hacker based) a ranger, and the long range sniper having lightning hands. Chewing enemies up is what the group excels at, and my high aim long range sniper can then absolutely destroy several pods in one turn (expanded ammo and auto loader modded weapon).

Granted, I am playing on Normal, but still. I loved serial on him; even more so than on my ranger who got it (still good, but not as good in my experience).


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Merusk on February 12, 2016, 01:14:22 PM
Goddam do I love those autoloaders. I've only found two my entire game, though. All that seem to drop are +aim scopes and data pads that are worthless because you have to stop research chains to examine them.  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Fabricated on February 12, 2016, 02:47:05 PM
Fully specced Sniper-type sharpshooters are amazing if you get them into a primo position and let them just camp there. Gunslingers however are the kings of clutch saves.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Samprimary on February 12, 2016, 03:08:43 PM
Serial on my conceal ranger turned her into an unstoppable killing machine, pretty underwhelming on my sniper sharpshooter.

oh god, serial with shotguns. i wonder how that stacks with implacable. do you get a new move each time?


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Zetor on February 12, 2016, 03:30:33 PM
Serial on my conceal ranger turned her into an unstoppable killing machine, pretty underwhelming on my sniper sharpshooter.

oh god, serial with shotguns. i wonder how that stacks with implacable. do you get a new move each time?
Yep, it basically works as a ranged version of Reaper. If you get that combo, I think you're obligated to rename your character Rambo and equip him/her with a red bandana.

(I got Kill Zone on my shotgun ranger, which is also fairly ridiculous, though much weaker than Serial)


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: lamaros on February 12, 2016, 05:40:27 PM
So I tested a few mods and started a commander run.

The game is way way faster on non legendary difficulties, as in twice as fast or more. Legendary is 40 hours plus but I expect I can finish this commander run in less than 20.

It makes the game pacing far worse in my view. If someone puts out a mod that adjusts the timers to legendary length for all difficulties I suggest people jump at it.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: lamaros on February 12, 2016, 08:15:57 PM
Mods I'm currently subscribed to:

Leader Pack - Ok, a bit eh. I turned it off.
Muton Centurion - Nice extra monster, should always add it.
SMG Pack - Ok, a bit eh, I turned it off.
Capnbubs Accessories Pack - Good cosmetic stuff.
EVAC All - Lets you Evac all, rather than one by one. Nice QOL change.
Free Camera Rotation - Lets you free rotate. Useful in a few situations.
Additional Tattoos and Facepaints - Generally good quality.
Custom Face Paints - Not as good quality but some are ok.
Full Character Customisation - Unlocks all options at any rank.
Military Camoflage Patterns - More camo options.
Ink and Paint - More tattoos.
Stop Wasting My Time - Cuts down on some annoying game pauses.
Quiet, Bradford! - Shuts up Bradford in Retaliation missions at the start.
Expanded Callsigns - More nicknames.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Threash on February 12, 2016, 09:22:25 PM
I was one  kill away from finishing the last mission when i had to leave and now i can't get the game to launch at all.  Fuck everything.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Threash on February 12, 2016, 09:43:18 PM
Game crashes every time i load a save from the last mission, fuck.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Big Gulp on February 12, 2016, 09:47:55 PM
So I held off on building magnetic rifles after researching them because they were so expensive, and figured I'd just buy one here and there as my funds allowed.  A very nice surprise to find out that it's just a blanket upgrade to the stock rifle from there on out.  I'll take the (sometimes) pain in the ass mission timers for that kind of quality of life upgrade.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: tmp on February 12, 2016, 10:20:54 PM
Yeah, the generic weapon and armour tiers are for the entire team. The ones you get from the proving grounds and smaller stuff like vests, special ammo types etc, are for single soldier.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Khaldun on February 13, 2016, 01:23:33 PM
Yeah, and even better, you don't lose upgrades in the existing older guns.

I think I might use Quiet Bradford at least, simply because it's so fucking annoying in Retaliation missions. If I were really the Commander, I'd come back from a mission and tell him he was fired.

Also



Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Threash on February 13, 2016, 03:01:49 PM
Is it normal not to run into a berzerker until the very last mission?


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: tmp on February 13, 2016, 03:10:00 PM
I think they are scheduled to show up around june/july (or at least that's when they showed up for me, if I remember right) so I guess if you play a really fast game, the aliens don't get opportunity to deploy them?

That said they're pretty rare for me; 2-3 times at most?


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Merusk on February 13, 2016, 04:02:07 PM
Quiet Bradford and True Retroactive AWC are good mods to install. The AWC is especially good for the first runthrough where you didn't know to prioritize AWC. If you've leveled-past your hidden ability you'll never get it, as it only is granted at the rank it's rolled. So if you've got a Major or Colonel when you build it, chances are you lost-out on a skill.

I've seen Berserkers twice and just hit Sectopods. Those fuckers suck, but having insta-kill on your Heavy you're using to chew armor down is glorious when it procs.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: dd0029 on February 13, 2016, 04:04:08 PM
Mods

Two others I'd recommend.

Evac All - Adds a button to do just that. Everyone in the pickup zone calls for their rope at once.
Show Health Values  - Adds an X/Y at the end of the health bar. Counting is hard. Reading is easy.

Two others I like but don't really need.

True Retroactive AWC - The AWC doesn't always award the bonus perks for leveled characters. This fixes that.
No Startup Movies - Gets rid of the logo things at the beginning.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: dd0029 on February 13, 2016, 04:05:28 PM
Game crashes every time i load a save from the last mission, fuck.

Most likely there's an active



Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Threash on February 13, 2016, 04:44:21 PM
Game crashes every time i load a save from the last mission, fuck.

Most likely there's an active


I did not, i actually had to go back several hours.  It is done though and i beat the game, now i wait for mods and DLC to give it another go.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Threash on February 13, 2016, 07:09:13 PM
I need way more accessories and hair options before i can roll out with a full G.I. Joe team.  Snake Eyes is looking specially shabby.  Also need a mod that lets me keep the default looks for characters even with upgraded armor, fuck the power ranger look.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: lamaros on February 13, 2016, 08:13:36 PM
I need way more accessories and hair options before i can roll out with a full G.I. Joe team.  Snake Eyes is looking specially shabby.  Also need a mod that lets me keep the default looks for characters even with upgraded armor, fuck the power ranger look.

There are some. But they're a bit screwy at the moment.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Threash on February 13, 2016, 08:16:11 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvIgzYBL2Z8&feature=youtu.be


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Furiously on February 14, 2016, 02:45:15 PM
Ok, so one of the songs in xcom2 sounds a lot like brother in arms to me... I can't find it in the soundtrack though.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Threash on February 15, 2016, 12:48:29 PM
Make this the first DLC please:

(http://i.imgur.com/BSNR9jT.jpg)


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: WayAbvPar on February 15, 2016, 01:32:23 PM
Does the AWC proc when you add skills to a leveled soldier you get from a mission (or off the map)? It would be pretty cool if it went off when you retrained people too =P


On my third restart and just realized I had forgotten to ever build a psi lab  :oh_i_see: . Already running into the big round fuckers (Over-somethings?). Amusing anecdote- the 2nd mission they were around, my specialist hacked a pole and got control of a random enemy. It was the Over-guy in the back, which made for a very amusing (and tidily completed) VIP extraction.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Merusk on February 15, 2016, 01:45:39 PM
Psi labs.. who needs psi labs.

Beat the game yesterday, only ever trained one Psi-op person. Took them on the last two missions and they died horribly in the 2nd half before I saw the final mid-combat cutscene. (Which, annoyingly, replays EVERY TIME you load the game up. Had to do two 'done for now, chores call' save and exits and you can't skip the damn thing.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Threash on February 15, 2016, 01:48:24 PM
Just lost Duke, Baroness and Snake Eyes in my ironman G.I. Joe run, I think I'm done.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: dd0029 on February 15, 2016, 02:03:18 PM
Psi labs.. who needs psi labs.

Everyone!  If I could have them from the beginning, I'd roll 6 of them. Void Rift with Schism is amazing. Stasis is the shit. Null Lance is dreamy. Domination is extra special fun. Fortress is an extra special fuck you to Chrysalids. If you screw up somehow and actually get damaged, Soulfire plus Soul Steal fixes that problem.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: lamaros on February 15, 2016, 04:35:05 PM
No AWC doesn't work on levels from reward soldiers. I got two and they were max rank and thus didn't get any reward.

It also doesn't work on retraining. Unless you get it before some of your soldiers are rank three there is a chance they will miss out.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: lamaros on February 15, 2016, 04:38:48 PM
Yes PSI soldiers are op, but the training mechanics around them are unfun and don't actually encourage you to use them until they're max level.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: koro on February 15, 2016, 06:23:47 PM
No AWC doesn't work on levels from reward soldiers. I got two and they were max rank and thus didn't get any reward.

It also doesn't work on retraining. Unless you get it before some of your soldiers are rank three there is a chance they will miss out.

Unless you rush the AWC first thing, the True Retroactive AWC (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=620586407) mod is something to consider, as every soldier is guaranteed one cross-class ability, but if it's promoted to that class or higher when the AWC is built, you'll never see it.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: dd0029 on February 16, 2016, 09:54:49 AM
Yes PSI soldiers are op, but the training mechanics around them are unfun and don't actually encourage you to use them until they're max level.

Huh, I really liked their training style. In particular, I liked how you can pull them out of training and the just slot right back in after the mission. I can see not wanting to use them if you don't have some of the better abilities, but once they have stasis or Null Lance I am more then willing to slot them in.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Threash on February 16, 2016, 10:11:56 AM
Yes PSI soldiers are op, but the training mechanics around them are unfun and don't actually encourage you to use them until they're max level.

Huh, I really liked their training style. In particular, I liked how you can pull them out of training and the just slot right back in after the mission. I can see not wanting to use them if you don't have some of the better abilities, but once they have stasis or Null Lance I am more then willing to slot them in.

I think he means that getting kills with them gives you no exp so it feels like a waste.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Samprimary on February 16, 2016, 10:24:31 AM
let it be a waste, then.

Psiops are absolutely worth the opportunity cost, especially in ironman. they allow for parallel soldier experience gain to help keep you stocked with effective troops.

They are also insanely useful in ways I can't even begin categorizing.

Example: with Inspire, a sniper can move and then get a FULL ROUND ACTION again to fire their rifle, use serial, or set up a killzone. It is the single most potent utility combo I came across, and I know there's more.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Zetor on February 16, 2016, 10:28:24 AM
let it be a waste, then.

Psiops are absolutely worth the opportunity cost, especially in ironman. they allow for parallel soldier experience gain to help keep you stocked with effective troops.

They are also insanely useful in ways I can't even begin categorizing.

Example: with Inspire, a sniper can move and then get a FULL ROUND ACTION again to fire their rifle, use serial, or set up a killzone. It is the single most potent utility combo I came across, and I know there's more.
Domination will also remove a dangerous enemy from combat AND give you a mimic beacon that punches/shoots things and lives for more than one turn (on Commander, my MC'd andromedons typically lived until the end of the mission). But yeah, almost every psi ability has the potential to be complete bullshit (for the aliens).

The passives are fun too. My favorite is the one that prevents psi operatives from dying (combined with the one that makes them immune to fire/acid/poison/explosion damage) because haha fuck you aliens.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Threash on February 16, 2016, 10:51:01 AM
Is there a mod that lets you keep your soldiers default look when you upgrade their armor yet?


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Samprimary on February 16, 2016, 11:37:11 AM
a psi agent wearing a WAR suit and a stasis vest is a very, ah, protected asset. durable goods, so to speak. i had one with blast padding. She facetanked the last mission, laughing and soulstealing her way to absolute victory.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Fabricated on February 16, 2016, 12:07:20 PM
Domination rules because I use it to MC shieldbearers so they can give my whole squad 5 disposable health pips at the right moment so I can play more recklessly than usual.

Also Sectopods are hilarious when you got someone capable of consistently taking control of them. I rolled right over a blacksite mission by hacking one and having it koolaid man right through the wall of the facility to open a path for my soldiers, but not before I used it to blow up the very surprised aliens that were in there.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: WayAbvPar on February 16, 2016, 12:26:05 PM
Yeah, hacking and mind-controlling is just way too much fun.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Merusk on February 16, 2016, 12:26:23 PM
Yeah, my uber combat hacker is why I didn't bother with Psi Ops at all. I got a full combat squad PLUS the more durable machine units of my enemy as my assault force.

If I play through again I'll try and rush Psi. For some reason I'm not feeling the urge to do so, however.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Khaldun on February 16, 2016, 12:26:36 PM
Yeah, a controlled sectopod is just totally hilarious fun.

You know, even with the small things that could be fixed about this game, this is easily GOTY material for me. This is my favorite genre of game anyway (turn-based tactical squad combat) and this is just a great version of same.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: dd0029 on February 16, 2016, 01:34:58 PM
You can Dominate/Insanity mind control Gatekeepers, also entertaining Kool-Aid men who oddly can't overwatch.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Threash on February 16, 2016, 01:37:34 PM
Hacks last 3 turns, mind controlled gatekeepers last forever.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: lamaros on February 16, 2016, 03:34:56 PM
The issue I have is that you're not incentivised to risk getting them injured as that stops them training, and they take a little longer to get up to a useful level, so you don't get them in to as many missions as your other troops.

After playing through again I'm finding the early game much more fun than late game, its the only risky part of the game, you do snowball in the mid game.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: lamaros on February 16, 2016, 03:36:15 PM
Hacks last 3 turns, mind controlled gatekeepers last forever.

Dominate lasts forever, (until the dominator dies or leaves) mind control doesn't!


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: dd0029 on February 16, 2016, 03:52:10 PM
Insanity MC can proc multiple times. I had a menagerie for a while, a dominated Andromedon, an insanity MC'd Gatekeeper and Advent Officer.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Samprimary on February 16, 2016, 04:08:11 PM
I rolled right over a blacksite mission by hacking one and having it koolaid man right through the wall of the facility to open a path for my soldiers, but not before I used it to blow up the very surprised aliens that were in there.

hahahahaha

i like how we independently came to the same wordery on that one. GF was playing and I was like "okay, so take over this dude. ok. now you need to click move over here and you have to yell "OH YEAHHHHHHH" right as you do it" and she was like "what why" and i was like "just do it"

andromedon powers through the wall of the advent blacksite as she goes OHHH YEAHHHHH and gives the aliens within a heaping AoE handful of sour apple koolaid


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: lamaros on February 16, 2016, 04:32:34 PM
Insanity MC can proc multiple times. I had a menagerie for a while, a dominated Andromedon, an insanity MC'd Gatekeeper and Advent Officer.

Yeah, I've done a couple of missions where I had more aliens under my control every battle than the other side did. Psi soldiers are extremely powerful. 70% chance against the hardest enemy in the game is nuts.

They need to lower these, and give some sort of feedback response for failure.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: koro on February 16, 2016, 06:32:19 PM
Is there a mod that lets you keep your soldiers default look when you upgrade their armor yet?

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=619230980

Yes, among other things.

There's also one for weapons, but I don't have the link offhand.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: WayAbvPar on February 16, 2016, 08:02:09 PM
We need a place to upload our created soldiers for others to import!


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: lamaros on February 16, 2016, 08:42:51 PM
Is there a mod that lets you keep your soldiers default look when you upgrade their armor yet?

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=619230980

Yes, among other things.

There's also one for weapons, but I don't have the link offhand.

Pretty sure they've stopped working on that, so its still buggy and not great.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Sophismata on February 16, 2016, 10:46:35 PM
Anyone poked at the dev tools yet? How open is the game? I wouldn't find fixing a few issues, myself.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: lamaros on February 17, 2016, 12:16:30 AM
Not yet, plan on giving it a go soon. The game is great but it gets boring on replays about 1/3 of the way through.

I'm tempted to see if I can fiddle a few things and make more of the experience I'd like.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Khaldun on February 17, 2016, 06:21:58 AM
Every once in a while I get some pretty odd place name/map location mismatches. Just got sent to a VIP extraction supposedly in Pretoria that the map marker placed in northern Madagascar.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: WayAbvPar on February 17, 2016, 11:11:04 AM
Heh, yeah last night I had a VIP snatch in the Arctic, and it said I was in Beijing. Global warming is a myth!


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Merusk on February 17, 2016, 01:03:33 PM
The fact that map zones have no geographic understanding of reality to them is how you know X-com is American-made.

"East Coast" zone of the USA includes the Great Lakes. Had a mission in Chicago and the computer said, "Now headed to East Coast, United States" I was like WTF?


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Teleku on February 17, 2016, 01:25:33 PM
Err, they have massive zones that cover a really broad regional sphere, as the map shows.  Lore wise its that most of civilaztion has been wrecked, and the survivors herded into big colonies.  And if you have a mission in the hinterlands that's somewhat near one of these big zones, it says you are going there. 

The Beijing/Arctic thing is funny.  Chicago/East Coast is truth.   :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Merusk on February 17, 2016, 02:00:51 PM
It's as much truth as Beijing/ Arctic.  Beijing is within that regional map you just used to justify Chicago as East Coast.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: lamaros on February 17, 2016, 05:48:57 PM
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=626291285

Has promise for cosmetic uniform management.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Teleku on February 17, 2016, 11:11:35 PM
It's as much truth as Beijing/ Arctic.  Beijing is within that regional map you just used to justify Chicago as East Coast.  :awesome_for_real:
Eh, anything east of the Mississippi is the east coast.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: eldaec on February 18, 2016, 05:17:02 AM
America has places that are not on a coast?


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Falconeer on February 18, 2016, 08:31:36 AM
Telluride is pretty coastless. I know because I wanna live there.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Merusk on February 18, 2016, 10:03:38 AM
America has places that are not on a coast?

Keep that attitude up and we're voting for Trump.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Strazos on February 18, 2016, 11:31:03 AM
Telluride is pretty coastless. I know because I wanna live there.

It's pretty gorgeous, and some of the best skiing I've come across. Really laid back, too.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Threash on February 18, 2016, 12:59:54 PM
The more i play the more i wish gameplay was more about winning actual firefights and less about beating one pod at a time before they ever get a turn.  Damage is way too high, wounds are way too punishing, end game abilities mostly revolve about not letting the other side ever get a shot off because you are fucked if they do.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: dd0029 on February 18, 2016, 03:29:56 PM
The more i play the more i wish gameplay was more about winning actual firefights and less about beating one pod at a time before they ever get a turn.  Damage is way too high, wounds are way too punishing, end game abilities mostly revolve about not letting the other side ever get a shot off because you are fucked if they do.

That was my thought as well. I enjoyed my time with it, but I find myself done with this one way faster. I don't think we're going to get one this go around, but a Long War type rebalance would be really good. For the most part, the turn by turn tactical play is really entertaining, but you're right. Wounds are too punishing and there's no easy way to come back from getting heavily wounded. You've only got one maybe two turns of protracted fire fight in a full mission before you are looking at a dead squad. However, changing anything would probably throw the who deal out of whack.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: lamaros on February 18, 2016, 03:35:10 PM
Yeah I tried looking at the mod tools last night but my brain was fried.

I'd like to change the balance of health so that there are more drawn out fights and less one round massacres. And tweak some of the damage so one shot kills are rare, like high end crits only on the weaker enemies.

Tweak damage for the aliens so their aim is better, so they hit more often, but do less when they do.

I expect these changes shouldn't be too hard to do.

Then I also want to adjust pod size, and adjust AI so the aliens can shoot first if they discover you on their turn.

That might be a little harder, but not too hard.

There's already a wound timer tweak I could incorporate. So that's easy to adjust.

And a lot of other stuff that is probably too hard to do without lots more experience. Like changes to how engineers and scientists are used,  blah blah.

Maybe this weekend I can follow a few guide and pke through some other mods to see how it all works.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: dd0029 on February 18, 2016, 03:46:09 PM
Then I also want to adjust pod size, and adjust AI so the aliens can shoot first if they discover you on their turn.

This one they can already do, but it seems to be a function of the triggering guy being out of cover. I think one change could be to give cover in general a damage reduction instead of just a flat negative to hit.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: lamaros on February 18, 2016, 04:16:57 PM
Then I also want to adjust pod size, and adjust AI so the aliens can shoot first if they discover you on their turn.

This one they can already do, but it seems to be a function of the triggering guy being out of cover. I think one change could be to give cover in general a damage reduction instead of just a flat negative to hit.

Nah, they don't do it. Only on the ambush turn they can do it, not future turns. I want it for all turns.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Sophismata on February 18, 2016, 08:47:03 PM
Good to know I'm not the only person who realised that one-round pod kills are the optimal way to play the entire game.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: lamaros on February 19, 2016, 05:15:46 AM
Well, I've been testing it out with changed health, and it's certainly not one round battles anymore!

Modding certain things is very easy with the tools provided, hopefully I'll have something to show for it soon.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: dd0029 on February 19, 2016, 10:12:21 AM
One thing I'd like is a return to the previous armor mechanic where you had to eat into base health to get injured. That just felt better. The problem with that is that you end up with the super squads again instead of the more interesting rotation method. I really liked the thematic approach that Long War took to this problem. With fatigue you had to rotate your squads, but you rarely had to wait a comparative eternity to get your "good" guys back.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: lamaros on February 19, 2016, 06:49:35 PM
Yeah I don't know how to do that yet. I'd be good to get fatigue back in there.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Lucas on February 23, 2016, 07:08:35 PM
This is the ultimate mod.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=appHBe0ZSOA

/mic drop /paintbrush drop


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Ginaz on February 24, 2016, 07:32:53 PM
What are some good/must have mods for this?


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: lamaros on February 24, 2016, 08:34:56 PM
What are some good/must have mods for this?

My current subscribed ones are as follows. I strongly recommend those I've made red.

Ease of use mods

Instant Avenger Menus
- Custs down Avenger transitions.

Always Show Shot Breakdowns
- Not 100% sure this is working.
 
Better Tactical Zoom Out
- You can zoom out more.
 
Ignore Missing Content
- Ignore 'missing content' errors from mods.

Numeric Health Display
- Displays health and armor as numbers.

Stop Wasting My Time
-Cuts down on a lot of areas where the game wastes time or takes control from you.

Mission Time Remaining
- Shows remaining time on scanning options and missions on map.

Free Camera Rotation
- as named.
 
Evac All
- as named.

Content mods

SMG Pack
- New gun.

Muton Centurion Alien Pack
- New alien.


My mod related ones

Second Wave Reborn
- I don't use this, just subscribed as I borrow elements in my mod.
 
Extended Fights
- My Mod in development.

 
Map related

World Expansion Project: ADVENT
More Maps Pack
- More diversity to random maps.


Cosmetic related
 
Uniforms Manager
- Great mod for managing uniforms between soldiers.


Additional cosmetic options

Free the Hood
DiversePatterns
Pirate Pack Tattoo.
Custom Bandanas - Armour Colours/Pattern
Ink And Paint
Military Camouflage Patterns
Additional Tattoos and Facepaints - Asian
Capnbubs Accessories Pack


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Ginaz on February 24, 2016, 10:29:24 PM
Thanks.  I picked this up tonight and have played through the first few missions.  Kind of wish I was able to create my own troops right off the bat but I'll do some customization later on.  I already downloaded the Bob Ross and Ahnold voice overs. :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Fabricated on February 25, 2016, 06:53:56 AM
There's also one mod that opens up all customization options regardless of rank.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Merusk on February 25, 2016, 07:21:50 AM
I just embraced the idea with my squad. Squaddies get certain cosmetic enhancements as they get the requisite # of kills.

5 kills gets you a left arm Xcom tat. If a ranger you also get a headwrap w/ eyeblack facepaint.
15 kills and you get sleeved on the right. Thematic to how that squaddie's built. Sleeves come off of uniform. (Except my GI-Joe "Firefly" heavy)
20 kills you pierce your face.
30 kills as a sniper gets the skull facepaint and you shave your head bald, man or woman.

Highest member only had 35 individual kills and was a ranger so I never progressed beyond 30.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: lamaros on February 25, 2016, 07:55:42 AM
I had a few around 100 kills on my legend play. It's slower, but I was also slow...


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Threash on February 25, 2016, 09:06:12 AM
I recommend the trooper class mod (here (https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=618090572&searchtext=)), because i feel the game is missing a straight up "guy who shoots people" class and it bumps you to an even 6 classes.  Also cause I'm playing with G.I. Joes and they mostly fall under the "guy who only shoots people" category.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: dd0029 on February 25, 2016, 02:45:10 PM
I recommend the trooper class mod (here (https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=618090572&searchtext=)), because i feel the game is missing a straight up "guy who shoots people" class and it bumps you to an even 6 classes.  Also cause I'm playing with G.I. Joes and they mostly fall under the "guy who only shoots people" category.

For "guy who shoots" I liked the Infantryman (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=620336497). He has Ever Vigilant Covering Fire for Overwatch and Shredder with Holo Targeting.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Threash on February 25, 2016, 08:31:54 PM
There is nothing more hilarious than watching G.I. Joes completely freak the fuck out when one of them dies.  Legendary ironman is like literally this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-VGyp8PJIk).


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: El Gallo on February 25, 2016, 09:17:18 PM
I'd pay real money for a good Arrested Development voicepack.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Teleku on February 26, 2016, 08:07:21 AM
"I've made a huge mistake" should be the motto of this game.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Threash on February 26, 2016, 08:21:33 AM
"I've made a huge mistake" should be the motto of this game.

Replace "enemies spotted" with that.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Strazos on February 26, 2016, 06:50:45 PM
So, I've been restarting my hard-mode ironman run. A lot. Like, repeatedly, because I'll do well for a few missions, and then I will uncover an extra pod at just the right time and BOOM, two dead XCOMs and thing collapse from there.

Still love the game, but FFS you get fucked by RNG sometimes. Also, lancers you uncover without being able to kill before their turn - that full-run + unconscious shit is obnoxious. Had one yesterday that crit in back-to-back rounds and one-shotted two of my XCOMs, and dodged two point-blank Overwatch shots.  :oh_i_see:

R-R-R-REROLL.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Khaldun on February 26, 2016, 06:54:55 PM
Doing Ironman now and finding the same--absolutely brutal RNG stuff now and again.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Threash on February 26, 2016, 07:50:56 PM
The problem is that early game is brutal and purely RNG based, followed by a more balanced and fun midgame that doesn't last terribly long, and a one turn every pod no matter what's in it third act victory lap.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Fabricated on February 26, 2016, 08:48:15 PM
It still has the previous game's problem where in Kevlar your guys go down in a stiff breeze, but if you survive to plated armor/magnetic weapons and aren't complete shit at the game your soldiers' survivability skyrockets.

Like yeah in plated/powered armor you're still TOTALLY killable but you usually need to really, really fuck up. Like, letting 2+ enemies get flanked shots on a single soldier or having the RNG just utterly shit on you by having bullshit where enemies target some solider in high cover+hunker down and somehow chain crits back to back to back or something.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Strazos on February 26, 2016, 09:24:19 PM
I'm not even opposed to XCOMs dying...but in the early game, if I lose my sniper and specialist, there's not a whole lot of coming back from there.

I also need to rush those squad size upgrades - a 5th soldier would make a huge difference.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Sophismata on February 27, 2016, 03:09:57 AM
I'm not even opposed to XCOMs dying...but in the early game, if I lose my sniper and specialist, there's not a whole lot of coming back from there.

I also need to rush those squad size upgrades - a 5th soldier would make a huge difference.

I lost everyone except my ranger at some point. The game is still recoverable, don't get too attached to your guys. You can always find more recruits. And when I ran out of recruit money I was able do to those missions to pick up some new blood. Once you get magnetic weapons the game becomes a lot less swingy.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Strazos on February 27, 2016, 10:50:35 AM
Had a supply assault mission last night. One round left to just do 1 damage to a trooper...and whoops, the truck two of my XCOMs are taking cover behind blows up, because someone had shot the trailer like 3 rounds prior (nothing was on fire).

I accepted that, though, because my SGT Specialist was still alive plus one other; the dead were just rookies who had miraculously made it through a prior mission.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: El Gallo on February 27, 2016, 05:53:59 PM
"I've made a huge mistake" should be the motto of this game.

Replace "enemies spotted" with that.

And every time you miss a 90% shot should be "COME ON!"


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Samprimary on March 04, 2016, 02:33:59 PM
I hate pods. It's the one remaining impediment to this game's greatness.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Threash on March 04, 2016, 04:50:27 PM
There is a mod out that activates all pods at once when you aggro one, you'd probably have to mod in some benefits to your side too but it turns the missions into rolling fights instead of single pod engagements.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Strazos on March 04, 2016, 11:46:40 PM
I just hate when pods, which you do not have LOS of, activate inexplicably on the enemy turn.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Fabricated on March 05, 2016, 10:17:08 PM
I love the extra map parcel mods since they actually make the maps feel a lot more random but whatever places the pods seems to have uh, issues with them. Should've taken screenshots but I keep having multiple pods crammed onto rooftops and the top of semis and other weird stuff.

It's pretty funny when I have a battle scanner reveal 3 pods on top of a building and then I grenade the floor out from underneath them and between the grenade and fall they all die. I've had a single grenade result in 8 kills.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Strazos on March 06, 2016, 02:22:28 AM
So for now, I think I've finally turned the corner - I managed to rush magnetic weapons and plated armor, while keeping at least a few XCOMs alive.

Now at the point with both squad size upgrades, fully kitted out in magnetic weapons, plus a few EXO suits. Powered armor is unlocked, but lol 300 supply.  :oh_i_see:

Unfortunately, I have a "Very Difficult" supply raid pending, so of course that could make or break the team.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Khaldun on March 06, 2016, 03:32:59 PM
I thought my latest Ironman attempt was going down in flames when I got a mission to escort a previously captured trooper and it was basically a trap (or that's the way the map played)--when I engaged one pod, I had four of them right on top of my squad--a sectopod + officer + shieldguy; two archons and a muton; andromedan plus two sectoids; officer, lance, exec squad. Specialist misses the shutdown of the sectopod and I thought, well, here we go, everyone's dead even with magnetic weapons and plated. I killzone the sharpshooter--there's a good cone that gets most of the regular ADVENT troops. That's two moves. I have a ranger scramble to better cover and drop a mimic beacon. Three. Psionic goes for domination on the Andromedan--if that fails at 74% I'm really, really screwed. She gets it. Four moves. Grenadier hits the archon/muton group with a plasma, takes half the health off of all of them. Five. 2nd Ranger goes Reaper, kills an archon, kills the muton, shoots the last archon. Six.

Lance moves to attack the mimic, gets killed by killzone. Exec squaddie shoots mimic and misses. Officer goes overwatch. Shield guy shields everyone up, officer shoots mimic, sectopod kills mimic and then targets my guys with the big gun. Sectoid 1 tries to free up the Andromedan (I think--I've noticed they usually try and fail to do something to dominated aliens) and the other raises up the dead mimic (!) as a psi-zombie.

So wow, I'm still alive, surprisingly. I have Kool-Aid Man go all Oh Yeah!!! to the overwatched officer and the shield guy, who are standing right next to each other (kind of a benefit of the map shape--it has forced all these troops into a kind of kill-funnel). Officer misses on overwatch shot, Kool-Aid kills the shield guy, shields go down, officer is wounded. Psionic lances the sectopod and finishes off the officer, who is in line with it. Grenadier hits up the sectopod and shreds it some, it's at about half health. Specialist does capacitor, that brings it close to death. Ranger 1 kills the sectopod. Sharpshooter takes out exec squaddie. Ranger 2 takes out the sectoid who made the zombie. Suddenly it's only one sectoid left.

I really love it when you're in a situation like this and you find a way out--it almost makes up for getting screwed by the RNG now and again. Moments like this are why I love this game so much.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: lamaros on March 06, 2016, 07:10:58 PM
Yeah, if you have dominate and a mimic you can pretty much aggro everything without fear.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Strazos on March 08, 2016, 01:21:52 AM
You know what's a bit lovely? When you stumble across a pod which includes a Sectopod, you're not sure how you're going to take it down but you start with your sniper...who promptly executes it with a superior repeater. :drill:

Twice in one night, actually. And those were not the only executions.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Samprimary on March 09, 2016, 01:19:31 PM
Snipers get all the scopes, extended magazines, and repeaters in my games.

Rangers get all the laser sights and auto-reloaders.

Specialists get the stocks.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Merusk on March 09, 2016, 02:16:29 PM
My snipers get the low end reloaders because a sniper with squadsight is useless the turn they have to reload. I gave one of mine a hair trigger, too and it was the best investment ever. I had to go with an advanced reloader and magazine to keep up. I had laser sights on one but I think that was overkill.

Rangers got Repeaters, Scopes and Triggers.

Specs got stocks, scopes and low-end magazines.

Heavies got Reloaders and high-end magazines. One always carried shredder ammo and had the shredder perk. What's armor?


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Threash on March 10, 2016, 01:54:26 PM
Patch today fixed a bunch of stuff and nerfed mimic beacons hard.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Khaldun on March 14, 2016, 06:02:47 AM
Glad I finished my Ironman run before that happened.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Merusk on March 14, 2016, 07:14:25 AM
This game was fun for the first run, but I can't find a reason to do a second run. It was far too on-rails vs. open-world for me. You MUST do this, now you MUST do this, this MUST happen or you lose the game now.

I didn't find it interesting because the timer limited your ability to play more than anything. Plus the lack of Random UFO-type encounters meant you were very much meted-out how things were going to play. You knew you were getting 2 combats a month and had to fit research, new facilities, and network expansion within that framework.

A few weeks later I'm finding I rate the game itself only about a 6/10 even though the combat and soldier classes were superior to the original.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Tebonas on March 14, 2016, 07:27:08 AM
There is a solution for that - mods.

The first mods I installed was a mod that extended timer limits and one that extended the Avatar Counter, and I never looked back.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Samprimary on March 14, 2016, 01:56:49 PM
I think we'll be giving XCOM 2 a raft of shit not because of any core weaknesses of its gameplay but because it has necessarily stuck with iterative improvement, so a lot of the gameplay is stuff that a lot of us have already burnt out on. We're all mostly tired of the nancy mess of avoiding pod popping and the reluctance to move boldly on account of it.

But XCOM2 will be infinitely superior to XCOM1 even for us, because unlike the first it is built around modding. Long War 2 will be a glorious thing. A glorious, glorious thing.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: lamaros on March 14, 2016, 11:47:54 PM
I'll play again when a truly great strategy layer mod comes out. My mod working has shown me that that is actually a pretty big multi-person (or a true obsessive) job.

As it is the game stagnates badly and becomes busywork after the first third in later playthroughs. It needs a bit more expansion variety and some more simulation in the strategy level.

Still a terrific game for what it is, though.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Tebonas on March 15, 2016, 01:55:10 AM
What really annoys me in this regard is the fact that from a certain point on you only get high level replacement soldiers of a fixed class. So you can't replace key members of your squad if they are killed later in the game (especially not Psi Operatives - because there are no Rookies anymore). Talk about busywork, waiting months until you finally get the class that you need.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Fabricated on March 15, 2016, 06:59:45 AM
XCOM 2 is fantastic. If you're burnt out on the battlescape stuff then XCOM is not for you because that's the point really.

The Geoscape definitely has a lot more to do with less downtime but good fucking god does it get spammy at times. No no, please, stop spamming me with fucking events and missions- I've spent 3 combat operations and 2-dozen notifications trying to SCAN SOMETHING FOR THREE DAYS.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Samprimary on March 15, 2016, 09:56:21 AM
What really annoys me in this regard is the fact that from a certain point on you only get high level replacement soldiers of a fixed class. So you can't replace key members of your squad if they are killed later in the game (especially not Psi Operatives - because there are no Rookies anymore). Talk about busywork, waiting months until you finally get the class that you need.

wait, you can't recruit rookies after a certain point?


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Threash on March 15, 2016, 11:20:12 AM
You can always recruit more rookies, they get refilled at the same time as the supply drop happens.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Samprimary on March 15, 2016, 12:12:47 PM
yeah I thought they were always available at will from a pool in the Armory — pick a rookie for 25 a pop (or 10 with the relevant continental bonus)


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Threash on March 15, 2016, 12:28:30 PM
40 in legendary :(.  You CAN run out, but only until the next supply drop.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Tebonas on March 15, 2016, 12:33:18 PM
Oh, I see! I think I never risked a second glance at those buttons at the bottom. I should play around less with mods and get to know the base game better, it seems. :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Samprimary on March 15, 2016, 02:06:23 PM
One of the things  you get really used to in short order is always staffing the GTS with rookies to give them an auto level up to squaddie. It also permits to stack your deck heavy on Grenadiers and Rangers — which I think you want at least a two to one ratio over Sharpshooters and Specialists.

Grenadiers are awesome and stack very well and carry you very well through the game.

Rangers are invaluable for concealment scouting pods (they are THE way to manage pods in the game) and they are very cheap to do the specialized upgrades for, since you only need the shotgun upgrade (and can slum a regular upgraded rifle until you get them) AND you can completely ignore swords.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Polysorbate80 on March 15, 2016, 02:26:31 PM
Finally discovered how easy it was to change one of the things that irritates me most about the game:  giving everyone more than one grenade is just a change in a text file.

Because how can you call yourself a goddamn Grenadier when you only get to carry two?  That launcher they're waving around should hold at least 6  :awesome_for_real:

(I see there's an entry for clip size for the launcher; I didn't play with that one since having an at-will reloadable grenade launcher might be *too* overpowered)


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Khaldun on March 15, 2016, 09:02:07 PM
I love using swords now and again, though.

Bladestorm is sometimes a life-saver.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Fabricated on March 15, 2016, 09:28:55 PM
Bladestorm causes really hilarious bugs when enemies are dumb enough to run by your ranger to get to other people.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Tebonas on March 16, 2016, 02:27:14 AM
Thats a bug? I always thought this was a feature - using the Rangers to close up chokepoints.

A little service announcement for the people using and discarding mods regularily - they don't always uninstall cleanly and things can linger around in the configs of the base game. So if you are done experimenting using a new clean install of the basic game might be in order. It certainly was on my PC.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Samprimary on March 16, 2016, 09:24:53 AM
I love using swords now and again, though.

Bladestorm is sometimes a life-saver.


Who doesn't enjoy a clutch swordening? Sadly, they are embarrassingly underpowered. Part of the issue is that the same character carrying swords is also carrying the most brutal point blank weapon.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Threash on March 16, 2016, 09:31:34 AM
Yeah, sword spec is basically just trading 2 really good shotgun shots per mission for bladestorm and the ability to shotgun someone after a yellow move every 3 turns.  Always pick rapid fire even if you go blade master.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Samprimary on March 16, 2016, 10:12:55 AM
interestingly, swordery being bunk makes rangers very efficient to maximize. Just do all the non-sword things and you have the best (non psi) class in the game.

Why? Because they're damage powerhouses that can spring-attack, they have access to the two concealment abilities and can scout pods, and they are massively efficient to upgrade; shotgun upgrades require no specialized research and you don't have to invest in their secondary weapon slot upgrades at all.

As a bonus, not picking bladestorm ever will prevent you from ever gibbing your own men on your own move


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Threash on March 16, 2016, 12:05:05 PM
I don't think it's that simple. All the way down the tree the choices are about equally valid, until untouchable which is clearly far superior to deep cover and rapid fire which is way better than reaper.  Shadow step and run and gun over shadow strike and conceal are a very hard choice.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Hoax on March 16, 2016, 12:28:41 PM
Has nobody put out a class ability shuffle mod yet?


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Samprimary on March 16, 2016, 01:44:53 PM
I don't think it's that simple. All the way down the tree the choices are about equally valid, until untouchable which is clearly far superior to deep cover and rapid fire which is way better than reaper.  Shadow step and run and gun over shadow strike and conceal are a very hard choice.

Though I'm not totally set to start the legendary ironman run, i'm pretty close, and so far I think this is the straight best way to run a ranger, and it really seems like the choices are all but completely lopsided

Phantom over Blademaster absolutely always — concealment is OP, and swords are bad, do not trade away OP skills to try to make bad things marginally less bad

Shadowstep over Shadowstrike in any circumstance EXCEPT when you're unlucky enough to get lightning reflexes as an AWC bonus

Run and Gun over Conceal is the only difficult choice — concealment is OP, but a 1x per mission conceal repeat is probably not worth trading away the Assault-esque double move and attack clutch, but at the same time Run and Gun's cooldown is ... significant. I think Run and Gun gets the nod

Implacable over Bladestorm absolutely always — spring attacks are amazing, and swords are bad. additionally, bladestorm is bad, so it is a compoundingly bad skill choice

Untouchable over Deep Cover absolutely always — this one is the most immediately obvious disparity

Rapid Fire over Reaper absolutely always — rapid fire is insanely awesome, and swords are bad even before they start putting in damage cuts on the subsequent hits



Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Threash on March 16, 2016, 01:47:44 PM
I thought "do all the non sword things" meant you were just going straight down the left tree, my bad.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Merusk on March 16, 2016, 03:14:34 PM
Yeah, swords were OP at the start on Normal difficulty but became near-useless by your third blacksite, only gaining a few bumps when you got upgraded weapons. You'd put yourself right adjacent to an enemy, out of cover and with no moves left for a marginal chance at a kill. Just not worth it.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Samprimary on March 19, 2016, 07:38:16 PM
also the interface functionality to allow you to select which tile you want your ranger to run to to sword from is so nonintuitive and hidden that I think a majority of players might not even know you can do it.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Teleku on March 20, 2016, 02:06:35 AM
I think you guys are crazy.  Swords were awesome to the end of the game, and literally saved my Ironman game from wiping on the last mission.  Managed to accidentally uncover several huge spawns while fighting another spawn, in a terrible position.  My blademaster with reaper proceeded to kill no less than 6 high level aliens in a very clutch (and I'll admit lucky, but still) move.  Comboed with some other fire, I reduced them down enough to survive the counter fire and take them all out the turn after.

I specced my other ranger opposite of blademaster, and they just couldn't keep up with the pure killing power he had.  He just ripped missions to shreds once I leveled him the whole way up.  Though I kept forgetting not to try and cut mutons.   :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Threash on March 20, 2016, 10:35:34 AM
For pure killing power run n gun, blademaster and bladestorm are way more offensive than their counter parts, but conceal rangers are for exploring without triggering pods.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Teleku on March 20, 2016, 10:40:38 AM
Well, I did always take implacable over bladestorm since I figured the odds of some guy running by me in melee range were probably low.  It fits the style of blademaster though.  Run up to a guy, chop his head off, then escape.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Threash on March 20, 2016, 11:05:04 AM
Bladestorm is for chrysalids really. Edit: also bladestorm ranger on a reinforcement flare is so much joy to behold.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Samprimary on March 20, 2016, 12:11:20 PM
I specced my other ranger opposite of blademaster, and they just couldn't keep up with the pure killing power he had. 

I'm not exactly sure how this situation came about, because a proper shotgun spec can do two to three times as much damage as you could ever get using swords.

Shotguns already do a tier above the damage of equal level swords; swords also can't crit, get crit or aim bonuses, don't get close range bonus to hit, don't apply specialty ammo bonuses, and don't get to utilize Rapid Fire. As a final insult, the Ranger specific GTS perk's +3 damage applies to their primary weapon ... but not their swords. Shotguns additionally match sword accuracy upwards of six tiles away from their target.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Fabricated on March 20, 2016, 12:29:48 PM
If you go to sword something and miss, or not do enough damage to kill your target you are in a gigantic world of trouble. If you park behind cover nearby and try to shotgun them and fail, you are in far less trouble.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Threash on March 20, 2016, 12:37:21 PM
It is extremely lame that sword attacks can miss, you could dodge a sword attack but nobody is ever going to just miss.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Samprimary on March 20, 2016, 01:03:31 PM
If you go to sword something and miss, or not do enough damage to kill your target you are in a gigantic world of trouble. If you park behind cover nearby and try to shotgun them and fail, you are in far less trouble.

additionally, the less far forward you have to go, the more you are properly managing the activation of pods. even to just use the sword is a huge gamble that does not have benefits in most situations that match the risks you are putting yourself through.

I find it interesting, balance-wise, that you could remove their swords entirely and they would still be the most overall valuable class in the game, though.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Fabricated on March 20, 2016, 01:19:54 PM
I dunno how to really fix swords to make them properly viable for higher difficulties outside of making them never ever miss and raising their damage or giving them more useful properties.

One weird thing I could think of would be giving rangers an ability that requires them to sprint, but gives them a sword hit on every enemy they pass next to on the way to their ultimate destination. It would certainly make the burn effect of the last sword upgrade less useless. It would also be anime as hell.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Strazos on March 20, 2016, 04:19:52 PM
I wanted to love swords so much, but after playing a bit and watching a ton of ChristopherOdd streams, it's clear that swords just cannot keep up.

I normally run with two rangers in my group, and they're very good destroying everything - it's tough to beat 15+ damage crits to the face. At this point, I occasionally use the sword for fun.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: lamaros on March 20, 2016, 07:30:59 PM
I dunno how to really fix swords to make them properly viable for higher difficulties outside of making them never ever miss and raising their damage or giving them more useful properties.

One weird thing I could think of would be giving rangers an ability that requires them to sprint, but gives them a sword hit on every enemy they pass next to on the way to their ultimate destination. It would certainly make the burn effect of the last sword upgrade less useless. It would also be anime as hell.

The upgrades to swords currently scale less than the other weapons, and that's before you consider ammo and other weapon bonuses.

I've just modded swords so the upgrades boost them a lot more.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Threash on March 20, 2016, 09:46:46 PM
That's because swords are a secondary weapon and they did not get as much love as pistols to make a viable tree out of them.  I mean the ranger default perk is "you get to use your secondary weapon", that's it.  I think two viable changes would be to make sword not able to miss at all and make blue move sword attacks not end your turn, also a colonel level perk that can compete with rapid fire is a must.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Samprimary on March 21, 2016, 12:21:10 PM
Rapid fire is already such a ridiculous skill that it's hard to compete with it.

Recently got it on a Sharpshooter who was already perfectly hybridized between pistols and rifles. Coupled with a psi agent, he can move every turn and then plant two rifle shots into any target he wants. If you're good enough with mobility, it's as good as Rupture, or better.

/edit - it is also worth noting that a properly specced sharpshooter can, at MINIMAL harm to their offensive rifle abilities, have a combination of abilities that allow them to fire their pistol 5 times into the same target. Pistols surprised me with their full game.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Samprimary on March 23, 2016, 02:59:20 PM
Ok. I'm ready to go on legend ironman.


Grenadiers are the actual support class of the game as well as being expendable lowbies, since any squaddie can carry and use two grenades and will never miss with them, and neither suppression nor holotargeting require a hit. Early to midgame they are the most valuable to churn through. The GTS will be put to work churning out an endless supply of them. They will be positioned to die first if necessary. They do not need the weapon upgrades and accessories. The ones that survive to officerhood will, of course, be very valuable, but since they're so good as squaddies they work best as the first casualties.

Specialists are extremely sub-par because the Grenadiers have all of the actually good support abilities and their overwatch-centric lategame talents are the biggest meh in the game. Build each one as a hybrid medic/robot hacker/overwatch support. Despite being the worst individual class in the game, the game has a built-in series of ways to punish you for not keeping at least one in rotation. You end up having to carry one into most missions as tower bonus scanners, remote timed objective hackers, and as medics and robot disablers. They must also carry the skulljack and skullmine for you. Give them stocks.

Sharpshooters are the best individual non-psi class but they are not the most valuable non-psi class overall. Rangers are. While sharpshooters have very, very excellent utility and put out blistering amounts of reliable damage, they start slow and have a hard time growing in ability commensurate with the toughness of the aliens, and are very, very patchy early to midgame because they cannot compensate very well for their heavy squadsight aim penalties. Your first two or three sharpshooters are very important to protect, because after a certain point they are not worth trying to level up from scratch. Additionally, they are really risky pics for timed escape missions.

Rangers are almost as cool as Sharpshooters individually, with the added bonus of not having a weak low-rank game (so you can replace them over the course of a game much easier) — they are blisteringly high damage, good in every mission type, and they are very easy and cheap to upgrade, so they will be the all-round powerhouses all the way up to the final mission. They are also at the highest risk of dying relative to their utility, unlike Sharpshooters, who are easier to protect and who have really good Oh Shit buttons. Leave Grenadiers to be the opportunity close-range targets wherever possible. The GTS will be put to work producing Ranger replacements as needed so that there are plenty in reserve.

Psi Operatives are, of course, the best class, but they have a huge opportunity cost to invest in and your production of their ranks is capped at two. Do not build the psi lab until you can immediately turn it into a two-bay lab and have an engineer to spend on it full time. The psi-ops themselves should not be fielded until they have achieved Magus rank and you have the get-out-of-death-free card and an amp upgrade. Once the game starts throwing end-level creatures at you, though, they become invaluable.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: lamaros on March 23, 2016, 04:44:40 PM
Specialists are great. The have unlimited range Los attacks that always hit and ignore armor, doing more to non robotics. I'd ignore the medic skills entirely.

Sharpshooters are the most situational class and can be ignored on many missions. They really aren't great and you can easily do the game without any if you wanted to. I'd not bring any really early game unless you're all over legend already, apart from the camping missions and the destroy target one.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Khaldun on March 23, 2016, 04:57:01 PM
Sharpshooters don't have the value they had in the first XCom because you aren't creeping along trying to trigger pods and handle them from a distance in the same way, plus I find that by midgame they really cannot take down much with one shot, which was pretty much the only thing that compensated for the lack of mobility.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Polysorbate80 on March 23, 2016, 06:41:29 PM
I prefer the specialist medical skills in general--being able to heal twice in a round, and revive the unconscious, does a lot more for me than a little zap of damage or a scan.  Haywire is the only hacker side ability I really ever use.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Khaldun on March 23, 2016, 07:01:00 PM
In the late game specialists can do a ton of damage to the robotics units with hacker-side abilities but I find that their takeover abilities are less reliable than the psi units on the living--and you only need one or two catspaws to really create havoc. And you can use the ammo and EMP grenades to do the same damage if you like to robotic units.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Threash on March 23, 2016, 07:35:43 PM
If I need that much healing i'm pretty screwed anyways because that soldier is going to be out a couple months, the guaranteed damage from combat protocol has saved my ass more times than i can count.  Getting shot means you are fucking up, getting more tools to prevent that from happening is always more beneficial than patching up after the fact.  If healing had an effect on wound timers it would be different.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Fabricated on March 24, 2016, 06:46:50 AM
Specialists have some of the best skills for mitigating fuckups and RNG fuckery in the game. Attack Protocol is fantastic when you have something nearly dead and you 100% no-option NEED that fucker to be dead at the end of the round. Hacking robots isn't as insanely OP as dominate but is still hilarious and insanely useful, aid protocol is good for having non-shadowstep soldiers eat up overwatch fire (or if the stupid terrain destruction causes cover to unexpectedly disappear for someone between a round), and the "heal/cure everyone" skill is really good for long-haul missions or when you're unfortunate enough to have multiple people get dinged with poison/acid/fire/etc.

As for damage output...yeah, I'd almost always rather have another ranger. Close-range shotgun crits pretty much outstrip the damage potential of everyone else. Sniping focused sharpshooters feel really weak late-game even with AP rounds- it's just that outside of killzone they end up just being "that guy who can do okay damage to one target he can see every round". Whereas a ranger can one-shot or nearly one-shot all but the heaviest units every round.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Khaldun on March 24, 2016, 08:18:34 AM
I think to me the problem with specialists is that even a specialist who has a very high hacking skill is still going in the endgame to miss on hacks with surprising frequency and the consequences for missing a control hack are pretty brutal. Whereas "missing" a dominate just is painful because you only get one per mission, but if you stick to mutons, berserkers, and even andromedans you'll never miss or miss very infrequently. The main thing with specialists is that they can really pull your fat out of the fire on timed missions--opening the door on a van with a VIP in it, retrieving a timed information target, etc. from a distance can really be important.

What I'd do to tweak classes:

Make specialist control and hacking less likely to RNGfail. Make skullmining never miss, though it can fail sometimes. (Missing on one is just as bad as missing with a sword.)
Make swords never miss altogether.

I'm not sure what I'd do for sharpshooter. I find killzone pretty useful but it would be more useful if the likelihood of an instakill went up and if it were a little less quirky in how it interpreted whether a target was in the cone or not. Maybe if specialists could use their drones to scout and that counted for squadsight while not breaking concealment, sharpshooters could be used more often to trigger a pod into running into an ambush.

I think grenadiers are basically ok, though they have a long "valley" where they don't catch up on upgrades--their upgrades seem to me to always take effect very late in the game, at a point where they're irrelevant.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Tebonas on March 24, 2016, 09:10:42 AM
Mods might take care of that for you.

Make specialist control and hacking less likely to RNGfail. Make skullmining never miss, though it can fail sometimes. (Missing on one is just as bad as missing with a sword.)
Hacking Rebalanced mitigiates some of that:

http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197995710050/myworkshopfiles/?appid=268500

Quote
Make swords never miss altogether.
Here you go:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=617795921


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Polysorbate80 on March 24, 2016, 09:14:09 AM
Chances for controlling mechanical units are bad, but shutown is fairly reliable.  Not as much fun as a pet, but telling the sectopod to sit down and be quiet for a couple rounds is usually good enough to deal with it.

Combat protocol is good early for wounded enemies, but late game I'd rather deal with the severly wounded by running in a ranger, blasting the enemy to death, and letting implacable/untouchable skate them off to relative safety.  I give them the health regen vests too.

Wounded soldiers:  yes, you'll need a replacement for the next few weeks, but you'd need that anyway if they died.  At least this way you'll get the experienced soldier back eventually too.  And wounds are inevitable.  I had a ranger get sectoid-panicked, run back between two other soldiers, and drop her grenade the other day.  Killed the wounded ranger and wounded the others.  Surprised me since I hadn't seen the "shoot your squadmates" behavior in xcom 2 yet; I kinda thought they'd got rid of that shit.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Samprimary on March 24, 2016, 02:29:55 PM
Whereas "missing" a dominate just is painful because you only get one per mission, but if you stick to mutons, berserkers, and even andromedans you'll never miss or miss very infrequently.

It's not too bad — a failed Dominate comes back after a cooldown so you can try again.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Samprimary on March 24, 2016, 04:36:42 PM
I think to me the problem with specialists is that even a specialist who has a very high hacking skill is still going in the endgame to miss on hacks with surprising frequency and the consequences for missing a control hack are pretty brutal. Whereas "missing" a dominate just is painful because you only get one per mission, but if you stick to mutons, berserkers, and even andromedans you'll never miss or miss very infrequently. The main thing with specialists is that they can really pull your fat out of the fire on timed missions--opening the door on a van with a VIP in it, retrieving a timed information target, etc. from a distance can really be important.

What I'd do to tweak classes:

Make specialist control and hacking less likely to RNGfail. Make skullmining never miss, though it can fail sometimes. (Missing on one is just as bad as missing with a sword.)
Make swords never miss altogether.

I'm not sure what I'd do for sharpshooter. I find killzone pretty useful but it would be more useful if the likelihood of an instakill went up and if it were a little less quirky in how it interpreted whether a target was in the cone or not. Maybe if specialists could use their drones to scout and that counted for squadsight while not breaking concealment, sharpshooters could be used more often to trigger a pod into running into an ambush.

I think grenadiers are basically ok, though they have a long "valley" where they don't catch up on upgrades--their upgrades seem to me to always take effect very late in the game, at a point where they're irrelevant.


any tweak to the classes has to recognize these factors, all independently:

- specialists are a bit shafted because it is the grenadiers who have all the good support abilities. they still remain vital because of baked-in situational mission necessities. this is a-ok by me, but they really don't feel very good at support-y stuff. they should have suppression and holotargeting.
- you can't 'fix' rangers by fixing swords because even if rangers didn't have swords they would remain THE MOST VALUABLE normal class; enhancing their swordplay just unbalances them more
- sharpshooters scale ability issues become unmanageable to level up from squaddie after a certain point; their accuracy growth needs to be scaled down and START HIGH. they are difficult to balance though because if you know how to use them, they become insane. insane, jerry
- grenadiers are way too good at early levels so they make the best fodder. ironically outside of this artificial disposability they do well in terms of their class growth so the survivors are much more valuable than, say, specialists
- you MUST recognize the strengths and interplays that psionics brings to the table. for instance, a sharpshooter paired with a psionic is the most insane combo in the game.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: lamaros on July 18, 2016, 10:52:14 PM
I've just started playing this again, and have been taking a look through the mod landscape since I last played.

Not a huge amount of difference, but the Long War team looks to have been hired to put out a few more mods, which seem to be leading up to a more changed experience:

1. Toolbox (Not Created Equal, Red Fog, Hidden Potential, Up to 12 sized squad, Ui stuff)
2. Laser Weapon Tier (post magentic, pre plasma).
3. Perk Pack (new classes, PCS, abilities).
4. Aliens pack
5. Unannounced

The bold are out, the other not yet. This all looks to be leading up to more of a marathon mode, so I suspect that the last mod will be in that line.

This is good, as the quality of the other mods is not great. Some nice ideas, but some clunky execution, and too many mods that mix up their 1 good idea with 15 crappy ones, making it an overall not that useful product.

Two two DLC are average, but they do add a little something extra.

I checking out a bunch more mods, but nothing especially promising. I think it's probably a few more key planks away from a really significantly changed experience.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Khaldun on July 19, 2016, 06:49:40 AM
I really didn't like the DLC so far.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: lamaros on July 19, 2016, 08:41:51 AM
I really didn't like the DLC so far.


Hopefully they're saving the good stuff for a proper expansion.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: lamaros on July 19, 2016, 09:06:10 PM
Ok, so I've tried a few other mods that make the game pretty different and fun:

Additional Mission Types - Some different and fun mission types
Guerrilla War - Changes the mission play significantly, requiring you to evac out of almost all missions, and only get resources when you pull them out (enemy bodies, supplies, etc)

More minor, but also contributing:

A Better AI
Squad Cohesion

As a whole they make the game feel much more of a grind on the tactical level, like you really are up against overwhelming odds and just need to get stuff done as fast as possible and take whatever you can get.

I just had a great rescue mission where you have to break out a VIP from jail, but as soon as you do the enemy blocks your air extraction for 8 turns while sending wave after wave of troops at you, but you also gain the help of some local resistance forces in the way of a few rookies. It was a completely different feel.

Sadly there's a bug with the extraction which I haven't puzzled out yet (just this mission, others to date were fine).

Edit: After further playing it seems the might both be too buggy at this point, alas.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Flood on July 20, 2016, 03:05:10 PM
Since I got it on the Summer Sale I've been playing it pretty regularly to quell some of my recent post update Warframe rage.  I played the hell out of XCOM 1, installed the original Long War and did a couple of playthroughs, etc.  

XCOM 2 proceeded to kick the shit out of me.  I was playing on Vet and made it a good way into the game but limping along, haunted by the Avatar timer, with slew of KIA's and shaken soldiers.  I decided to start with a clean slate and try again.  Since that was the case I also downloaded some mods to see how it would change the game.  I installed the whole Long War suite (minus Laser Weapons but I did install the SMG weapon set), some cosmetic mods, a handful of the "fixes" like Gotcha! and Quit Wasting My Time, and a couple misc. ones like Squad Cohesion.  I didn't want to significantly change the core game, just tweak it some.

I'm fairing a bit better this round, likely due to previous experience more than anything, but the LW mods are a nice change-up.  The new classes and perks are neat.  I like the RPG / skill up facet of games and the LW stuff addresses that nicely.  Overall I think the LW stuff is worth a download - but only on a fresh play through due to bad mojo with save games and shit going sideways.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: koro on July 20, 2016, 06:09:06 PM
recent post update Warframe rage.

At the risk of being off-topic, what happened? I haven't played Warframe in about a year.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Trippy on July 20, 2016, 06:18:51 PM
They updated a bunch of stuff:

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/668132-update-specters-of-the-rail/


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: lamaros on July 20, 2016, 09:40:41 PM
It seems a few people are getting the crash issues I've been having, but the cause isn't clear. It might be due to a mod, or a game update, or whatever.

Edit: Seems to be when you reload from a save in a tactical mission. So, don't do this. Trying again and so far so good, and the mods are making the game much fun.

Examples.

First mission, instead of just blowing up the statue, you need to blow it up and then extract out. But you only take the bodies you extract out with, so you probably want to get as many as possible, including a captain, for research and selling purposes. But balancing this is tricky, as reinforcements keep getting called in. I had to run out with just a couple of trooper bodies as I was getting pincered from behind by reinforcements.

Second mission is VIP kill/capture. Same deal, you still have to extract out, but on your terms. As soon as you blow cover you can't call in the skyranger for 8 turns though, as enemies reinforcements also pile in, so you really have to pick the moment you break cover, then have to weigh up the cost of getting the VIP and other bodies along with keeping safe for those 8 turns as you slowly get more overwhelmed. I was forced to extract out with the VIP, a captain and sectiod, as my 4th unit got caught from behind by reinforcements.

The game feels much more like you're a hunted revolutionary force this way.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Flood on July 21, 2016, 01:06:14 AM
recent post update Warframe rage.

At the risk of being off-topic, what happened? I haven't played Warframe in about a year.


I've been debating posting in the Warframe thread, but I felt like it would just come off as a rant.  In very (very) brief - they rolled out an update which "revamped" many aspects of the game.  The net effect is to noticeably stop down acquiring loot (gear), experience, and in-game currency.  It also makes it more difficult for new players to progress.  The majority of the player base isn't happy - me included, and I already have pretty much all the gear / loot / cosmetic stuff you can get.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Khaldun on July 21, 2016, 06:48:24 AM
This is always one of the strangest moves developers make--late in the cycle of a game's life to make the game strikingly more difficult and unpleasant for any new player who might happen upon it. And yet it happens fairly often.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: lamaros on July 23, 2016, 10:36:12 AM
More XCOM2 Mod talk:

I'm been playing with Squad Cohesion, Squad Notoriety, Grimy's Morale Mod, Additional Mission Types, LW Leader Pack, Potentials, Scanning Sites Plus, and Guerrilla War (Alpha). I'm also using LW Toolbox for Not Created Equal, Hidden Potential and Red Fog.

So far I would say this make the game quite different, especially in regard to squad selection, and is lots of fun. The only points I'm not 100% sold on as if I should be using LW Perk Pack. I think those classes are a little too strong, and a bit boring.

I've also been playing with 6 Soldiers in the starting squad, but I think that that makes the game too easy.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Khaldun on January 20, 2017, 06:34:09 AM
Long War 2 is out, apparently.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: eldaec on January 22, 2017, 09:32:30 AM
Interesting - I lost interest in xcom2 before finishing mostly because of missing LW features.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Teleku on January 22, 2017, 01:07:14 PM
Loved both games, but never really got into the long war.  Might try it out on Xcom 2 then.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: lamaros on June 22, 2017, 04:11:22 AM
New expansion coming out in August, a proper big expansion.

It sounds pretty good. I will of course get it.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Father mike on June 30, 2017, 01:08:50 PM
Metric ton of details about new systems, classes, enemies, etc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpLcPIWqK18 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpLcPIWqK18)

Looks pretty damn cool !!!


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Bann on August 09, 2017, 09:18:47 AM
The expansion news piqued my interest in LW2. This time I decided to throw some more mods on top of it as I found last time I wasn't good enough/it was a bit much for me. I probably overdid it, but I'm having a blast going through it all again. For anyone that liked the idea of LW2 but found the execution over the top, consider adding some of the following:

No Rank Up Throttling - just means your dudes can level up multiple times in a mission if they are enough exp
Flawless - If you earn a flawless rating, you get bonus Intel/alloys/supplies/elerium
True Concealment: if all your dudes are concealed, the mission timer does not tick down
LW2 Tactical Suppressors: If you are concealed and kill something with a suppressed weapon, chance to remain concealed.
Gremlins Grab Loot: Gremlins can Grab Loot
Extract Corpses: Lets you carry corpses out of missions. Also adds a fulton device item so you can balloon out corpses or injured allies.
Hack Plus: everytime a soldier successfully preforms a Hack, they gain a little hacking skill. Probably OP, but I like growing my hackers.
Ashlynns LW2 Alien Pack - Adds 3 new enemies along with corrosponding research and weapons. I found the advent warlock to be a good addition.
Primary Pistols - Lets you equip a pistol as a primary weapon
Pistol Upgrades - Allows 3 upgrade slots to pistols
Celatid Alien LW2 - Adds a series of Celatid enemies. After research you can use celatid corpses to make deployable turrets which are WAY OP.
Grimy's loot mod - Arguably the most unbalancing thing in here. I think the optimal way to play is to just sell all the loot boxes for supplies, which means if your missions are rolling well you can generate a gamebreaking amount of supplies. This did not bother me at all. Additionally, I like cracking the occasional chest for the unique attachments.
Gunslinger class - Primary pistol dude. If intrested in doing this, make sure to include primary pistols and pistol upgrades.
Stalker class - Didnt love this one. Kinda stealthy that at top level can make your squad invis for 1 turn.
Field Medic class - adds a medic. Felt pretty well balanced. My favorite officer is a field medic.
Tank Class - someone who can draw fire and absorb punishment. Good to always deploy on a team that reduces healing time, as using tanks properly sends them sickbay.

I also have a good amount of QOL, Cosmetic and Voicepacks installed. I gotta say that I never tried voicepacks previously, and am surprised at how much more they make me care about soldiers.





Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Father mike on August 30, 2017, 12:53:23 AM
Expansion dropped today.  It adds a ton of new stuff.  I'm about 20% thru the main campaign (just got plated armor and I'm researching magnetic weapons).  The new Chosen bosses are tough and specifically designed to prevent cheesing and turtling --  for example the sword-assassin boss doesn't trigger reaction shots, but takes extra damage from one of the new Factions.  The new factions are interesting, but don't feel overpowered at the Sergeant level.

Anyway, its still Xcom, and it's pretty decent so far.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Khaldun on August 30, 2017, 09:24:14 PM
This is one of the more fun expansions for any game I can remember.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Ironwood on August 31, 2017, 07:30:39 AM
Question :  Is it a 'restart your game' type of expansion ?


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Sir T on August 31, 2017, 07:35:52 AM
Might pick this up soon. I didn't like the premise so it kinda put me off. but if its been improved I might pull the lever.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Merusk on August 31, 2017, 07:52:11 AM
Question :  Is it a 'restart your game' type of expansion ?


Based on what he said about certain bosses being immune to the older archtypes, I figure it is.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Tebonas on August 31, 2017, 08:13:03 AM
It definitely is. They have a second button in the launcher for the expansion including a seperate Modlist. They even changed the storyline regarding the rescue of the Commander at the start of the game to integrate the new factions.

Played if for a few hours now. The new expansion is awesome, at least at the beginning of the game. Don't know how it holds up to the end. I suspect the Chosen might trivialize the original endgame compared to them, but the ride up to that point should be worth it. They improved vastly on the emergent gameplay, which always was the best thing about Xcom 2 anyway.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Jade Falcon on August 31, 2017, 08:28:43 AM
Question :  Is it a 'restart your game' type of expansion ?


I did and would recommend it, a lot of little tweaks to gameplay and tactics now makes it feel quite different. Also rerun the videos if you just skip through them now, they've updated some of them.



Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Ironwood on August 31, 2017, 10:42:19 AM
Fuck all y'all. 

I'm buying this then.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Father mike on August 31, 2017, 10:51:07 AM
To pile on to what everyone else is saying, you have to restart.  None of my old save files show up in the list for the new game.  But it's an even bigger revamp than 'Enemy Within' was.  There's new one-time-only research options, enhanced story cinematics, zombie hordes, pair bonds, and more.  I thought $40 was steep, but it's an awful lot of new stuff.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Merusk on August 31, 2017, 11:11:01 AM
I was just finding myself questioning if I ever even finished X2 in the first place. I thought I did, but I don't know for certain. How aggravating.

Ah well, I'll buy this anyway. I love this series, even if I miss having AP instead of limited actions.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Ironwood on August 31, 2017, 05:42:01 PM
Holy shit, this has been substantially improved and I ain't even that far yet.

Also, loading times are blazing fast now ;  is that just me ?


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: WayAbvPar on August 31, 2017, 06:04:22 PM
Goddamn it why did I click this? Now I have to buy.

e- is any of the DLC before the expansion worth getting?


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: eldaec on August 31, 2017, 06:47:27 PM
No. Not really.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Megrim on August 31, 2017, 07:15:30 PM
Holy shit, this has been substantially improved and I ain't even that far yet.

Also, loading times are blazing fast now ;  is that just me ?

Do you still have to press capslock to get it to deload maps quicker?


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Tebonas on September 01, 2017, 12:46:33 AM
Its been a while since I last played it, but now that you mention it it indeed loads quite a bit faster.

The old DLC is neatly integrated in the expansion if you have bought it, but with the storybeats missing (which you can reenable). Basically it is 3 bossmobs guarding three blacksites and a new Robot class for Xcom.

Nice if you already have it, probably not worth the money compared to te expansion if you don't.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Jade Falcon on September 01, 2017, 07:37:53 AM
Holy shit, this has been substantially improved and I ain't even that far yet.

Also, loading times are blazing fast now ;  is that just me ?

Do you still have to press capslock to get it to deload maps quicker?

Not at all it's loaded/deloaded before the dialogue debriefing the mission ends now. 


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Ironwood on September 01, 2017, 08:55:34 AM
Yeah, that's how I noticed the speed.  Even before Central has stopped blathering on, the button to cut him off and GET INTO IT has already appeared.  That never happened before.

It's the same after the mission.  Whatever they changed, it's no small thing and it's brilliant.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Khaldun on September 01, 2017, 02:19:02 PM
Fuck this is crazy fun. I love how much shit is going on in the strategic map now. The cross-chatter with the Chosen is great and often kind of hilarious.

I stopped doing Long War 2 because I got to a point where it was either save-scum like mad or give up, so I gave up. Just was too hard even though I liked it.

But here, they're in a sweet spot--I got a mission where the Nightqueen with an explosion vulnerability, a bunch of Lost, and some Advent troopers were all there and I was trying to get to some crates before Advent did. It felt crazy but never totally impossible--like, a great intensity and wild unpredictable fun to it.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Threash on September 01, 2017, 02:49:05 PM
Holy shit, this has been substantially improved and I ain't even that far yet.

Also, loading times are blazing fast now ;  is that just me ?

Optimization improvements are like the main feature of the expansion. This game is so much fun right now, and it was already pretty good before.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Ironwood on September 01, 2017, 04:45:48 PM
Ok, so that's my first game pretty much over already.  Sure, I could continue, but I know a loser when I see it.

These fuckers are hard as nails and all the new stuff really piles on the already existing Avatar Pressure.  Jesus wept, time to start over.

I really, really do love all these changes so far though.  Not met one yet that I've not thought 'yeah, that's a neat addition'.  What I would say is the main game is now Sooooo very BUSY at all points, but I guess that's good.  I'm also constantly struck by the fact that outside the combat, this is really showing some serious boardgame mechanics.  It's odd.

Fuck those chosen in the fucking earhole.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Threash on September 01, 2017, 04:47:15 PM
The assassin specially, man that fucker just wrecks your squad even when you beat him. The warlock on the other hand is a complete pushover, just finished him off for good. Six mindshields made him unable to hurt anyone.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Ironwood on September 01, 2017, 05:16:13 PM
I disagree.  He made a lot of those exploding fucking ghosts on one map and pushed my shit in.

It was evil.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Threash on September 01, 2017, 05:29:44 PM
(https://i.redditmedia.com/rZidsdlXp9KKthg2d6T2vp8be2Vd_RDJ4wpvvy_RHKc.png?w=512&s=f5fd5628ef8152d879b353795f497e35)


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Ironwood on September 01, 2017, 05:30:40 PM
 :ye_gods: :awesome_for_real: :awesome_for_real: :heart:


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Ironwood on September 02, 2017, 04:15:45 AM
Annnnnd you can send scientists and engineers on covert missions to offset risks to your soldiers, which is another fantastic little boardgame mechanic that makes the whole thing a lot more thinky.

Love it.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Merusk on September 02, 2017, 07:10:37 AM
Marina Sirtis, Michael Dorn, and Jonathan Frakes are the voices of the champs and faction leaders, right? I'm not the only one hearing that. (but haven't Googled)

ed: IMDB Confirmed. Hah.

Also:

John de Lancie
Denise Crosby
Jake Busey

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt7297456/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_1


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Khaldun on September 02, 2017, 11:37:50 AM
Ah, good, I kept meaning to IMDB it because I was *sure* that was Sirtis and Dorn. I hadn't picked up on it being Frakes too. Hilarious.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Threash on September 02, 2017, 09:00:13 PM
Between covert operations and resistance orders I can keep the avatar clock going forever. Meanwhile my soldiers are turning into literal super heroes.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Ironwood on September 03, 2017, 10:47:07 AM
On the one hand, once you get the hunters weapons, you just feel Godlike.

Other hand, this game really, really makes you care about your soldiers once again ;  Losing one is like losing a limb.  Especially watching the other grieving wank on the screen because her partner of 180 missions just eat plasma.



Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Fabricated on September 03, 2017, 12:43:18 PM
This is a great expansion. Good god it becomes an utter clusterfuck however at times.

Like, getting a The Lost sitrep, the Chosen showing up, and a mission with a lot of stupid shit going on (like a retaliation mission) results in an absolute conflagration of shit.

Hordes of zombies, random civvies, friendly armed NPCs, the Chosen, all the regular pods, and faceless. All at once.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Threash on September 03, 2017, 01:59:14 PM
Continent bonuses are no joke this time around. I have a chance to get a pet advent and a bad ass rebel on each mission, and both of them own.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Phildo on September 03, 2017, 06:06:21 PM
Haven't played Xcom in a while, booted this up today and promptly got my ass handed to me twice in the first mission.  Good to be back.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: lamaros on September 03, 2017, 10:23:59 PM
This will be my jetlag cure tonight. Why didn't I think of it this morning? I should go home early to download.

Any need for any mods at all at this point?


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Fabricated on September 03, 2017, 10:40:54 PM
This will be my jetlag cure tonight. Why didn't I think of it this morning? I should go home early to download.

Any need for any mods at all at this point?
There's some bugs and dumb decisions regarding the factions- like you should be able to get a second squadmate from each faction at the appropriate faction rating but you can't, and there's some bugs I think with how some of the chosen events apply. There's mods to fix this.

Also all of the quality-of-life mods, like numeric health display, Evac-All, Overwatch-All, etc.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Ironwood on September 04, 2017, 03:30:00 AM
So turns out the Assassin was pissed off that I ended the Hunter, so she decided to attack the Avenger.  Interestingly, they've taken the previous X-Com defend the Avenger mission and turned it up to 11.  Now, you can't just turtle and let everyone come to your house because the Chosen have multiple trucks and a BIG FUCK OFF GUN that will just wreck the hull if you don't shift your arse.  Previously, you'd send 1 chap up front to wreck the power tower holding you down and away you go;  now you have two squads and they have 8 tanks and a cannon.  So, you need to get people moving.

Which would be fine, but she would appear to have brought Advent with her.  All of them.  Thus began the long and drawn out affair of watching 4 of my nicest guys get utterly wrecked in a squad of 12, with almost everyone else taking some forms of damage, ranging from a month in the hospital to deep and abiding trauma due to a partner getting literally turned into a Chrysalid farm.

So that was nice.

On a not entirely unrelated note, those new Spectre guys are just pure fucking baws.  I get they needed to make a new unit to stop the endgame being so easy, but they're op as fuck.




Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Khaldun on September 04, 2017, 06:44:34 AM
The Spectre guys have to be taken down superhard the moment they appear, yeah.

I like the way the game forces you to be mobile in new ways but also gives you some interesting ways to deal with the consequences. Those ruined city maps where the Lost tend to be can be really interesting in terms of dealing with hidden Advents as well. Those grenades that ring the dinner bell for the Lost are really fun if you can tag some Advent with them and then pin the Advent guys down in one place.



Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Ironwood on September 04, 2017, 07:10:15 AM
Yes.  Way and I were chatting over Steam that you can totally get the Lost to EAT THE CHOSEN if you do it right.  It is glorious.

Edited to Add :  Also, that Chosen that takes more damage from the Reapers becomes just a lol fest when your Reaper gets that 'unload weapon into target till it dies' ability.

You literally stealth up to the bitch and pump all your rounds into her and she 'dies'.  I can't wait to do that in her base.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Threash on September 04, 2017, 08:09:24 AM
Killing the Chosen during their base attacks is the easy part of that fight I've found, dealing with the endless spawns while they are dead is a lot harder.  Specially when they start spawning two adromedons per turn that need to be killed twice.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Fabricated on September 04, 2017, 09:55:19 PM
I like the research breakthroughs a lot since it really makes research a proper decision. Some are nobrainers however- getting the next tier of weapons/armor in a fraction of the time, or a permanent damage boost to a weapon type is a complete nobrainer.

The doom-ticker also seems way the fuck faster. I'm halfway to the end even after knocking out the first blacksite and succeeding on a covert op to knock 2 pips off the meter.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Khaldun on September 04, 2017, 10:01:18 PM
The thing on the Chosen base missions is if you can just lock down bad shit with suppression or other abilities after you've blown up the resurrection thing, then if you can take down the Chosen on its last respawn, all the bad shit on the map disappears. That makes a bit easier knowing you don't have to kill it all.

Andromedons remain fucking terrible, though--they are one of the few things after you have peak armor and weapons that can still kill a trooper with one blow and where you can't cheese them as easily as some of the other bad stuff.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Threash on September 05, 2017, 09:30:38 AM
I keep checking for updated "everyone STFU goddamnit" and "speed the fuck up everything" mods with no luck.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Khaldun on September 05, 2017, 02:46:25 PM
I think they built a bit of the STFU mod into it, though. Bradford doesn't constantly tell you to save the civilians every time one gets ganked in a retaliation mission, for example. Most of what he says now is at least somewhat relevant--ADVENT took a crate; ok, now go over there and rescue those civilians because you freed up the Resistance fighters at that location.

I do like the Resistance fighters being at the Retaliation sites, by the way--that's a nice improvement of those missions. It even explains why the civilians might not move or run.

I wish the Ascension bases for the Chosen were a bit more varied according to their powers/personalities.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Jade Falcon on September 05, 2017, 03:29:46 PM
Now his new annoying monologue is that you've built the ring now and we should have any free operatives running missions, every time you return to the ship after a covert op.

The ability for this game to go from pure rage inducing moments to wow I can't believe that just happened moments is pretty impressive. Sectopod appears with advent cronies,Sectopod stops next to a gas station,cronies take cover around pumps and cars. Reaper is stealthed and in perfect flank position on Sectopod so I hit with Banish. First shots rolls a 5% and executes, Sectopod detonates and the entire gas station and cars detonates. Was pretty impressive watching that whole corner of the map go up in flames and everything with it. Next map chosen,lost I detonated something with a missed shot spawning a pile of lost,I had decent position tho sitting on a roof top figuring it was going to be fun shooting fish in a barrel........3 90+ to hit in a row all missed,chosen swoops in stuns 2, lost swarm, total wipe.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Rasix on September 05, 2017, 06:49:53 PM
Is the base game worth playing (got it in a Humble Bundle) now that this expansion exists?


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Khaldun on September 05, 2017, 07:22:56 PM
I would say no--just play this. It's a better version of the base experience, which was already pretty good.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Threash on September 05, 2017, 07:32:18 PM
The base game was pretty fun, but the expansion is massive improvement.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Fabricated on September 05, 2017, 08:38:35 PM
Is the base game worth playing (got it in a Humble Bundle) now that this expansion exists?
The expansion thickens the overall amount of stuff going on to a ridiculous degree. After you got used to the strategic and battlescape layers in XCOM2 base (minus all the DLC before this expansion even) it was more substantial than Enemy Within but still felt like something you could easy get your hands around even on Impossible difficulty if you REALLY understood the action economy and battlescape in general.

There's a LOT of fucking variables now. But it doesn't kick you in the balls- there's not a lot of "lol fuck you" in there- while the missions got way more complicated, and there's now a fucking host of really powerful units you can unexpectedly deal with you're given a lot of extremely powerful tools in response and ways to buff your soldiers up to an even more ridiculous degree.

I think XCOM+Expansion+All the DLC might be pretty daunting right off to someone new though.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Father mike on September 05, 2017, 08:45:08 PM
I would be sorta screwed without the "Shen's Gift " DLC.  SPARKs don't get fatigued.  This has allowed me to get a non-rookie into the field on many occasions when I wouldn't have been able to otherwise.

On the other hand, Alien Hunters is complete crap.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Threash on September 05, 2017, 09:33:13 PM
The armor you get is so goofy and awesome though, great to pair up with the super awesome slick chosen weapons.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Merusk on September 05, 2017, 09:49:17 PM
I'm pretty sure that because I keep clicking "I Disagree" to the T2 TOS that lets them sell my info the game is conspiring to fuck me.  Only on my fourth or fifth mission over-all and the Assassin always shows along with 9-12 Advent bastards ands sectoids.  I also miss a ridiculous amount of high-percentage shots.. I had a 93, 95, and 97% miss in the same round.

I should keep track


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Fabricated on September 05, 2017, 10:12:29 PM
They nerfed the Alien Rulers a bit. They're still assholes but they don't get free actions for EVERYTHING now. Granted I haven't fought them yet in WOTC- I didn't have much trouble with any of the rulers minus the Archon however pre-nerf.

Frost Grenades solve a lot of problems with annoying special units. If you suspect fuckery is afoot, make sure you have an explosives-specced Grenadier with the extra primary nade and the frost grenade equipped and you can generally teabag an Alien Ruler enough to make it retreat. Also mindshields are actually super useful now.

The answer to most insanely obnoxious units are rangers with shotguns+laser sights and Talon Rounds. Basically nothing but the strongest mechanized units and bosses survive 2 point-blank shots to the face from a shotgun at 100% crit rate. As long as your shots connect there's nothing a pair of rangers with tricked out shotguns cannot one-round.

For mass crowd-control and debuffing, throw venom rounds on a pistol-specced sharpshooter and use faceoff to poison every unit that can be poisoned within shooting range.

For sniper-focused sharpshooters you can either try to get them shredder and then use whatever strikes your fancy, or use AP rounds so they can remain relevant for whittling down Sectopods and the like.

And that's not even getting into the utterly busted new faction soldiers.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Merusk on September 05, 2017, 10:20:58 PM
All that sounds awesome. Now tell me how to get it when you've only got two sergeants and are still researching magnetic weapons.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Megrim on September 05, 2017, 10:29:06 PM
All that sounds awesome. Now tell me how to get it when you've only got two sergeants and are still researching magnetic weapons.  :awesome_for_real:

Grenades solve all problems.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Ironwood on September 06, 2017, 02:23:13 AM
Unless The Lost are around.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Khaldun on September 06, 2017, 06:33:58 AM
I didn't like Alien Rulers one bit when it was first out, might give it another try.

Bladestorm is also a very helpful thing. Though it seems to miss the Lost more often than not.

I had a fun ambush of a covert op last night where I'd put two relative noob soldiers on it--that was hairy. Good suspense about getting them out.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: lamaros on September 06, 2017, 07:27:23 AM
The game seems quite buggy still, I'm fairly disappointed.

The experimental greandes and armour system is still shit also.

In most other regards they've made some significant improvements. Still, I hope they can polish it up a bit more.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Ironwood on September 06, 2017, 07:59:02 AM
My strategy for covert ambushes is just to run.  If you outfit your dudes with lost grenades, it helps also.

You can usually beat in ADVENT to an exit because they'll do stupid things like, you know, cover and shielding and other daft shit.  While you just beat feet to the LZ.  Chucking a lost grenade behind you and watching them get eaten is also fun.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Khaldun on September 06, 2017, 09:59:35 AM
Yeah. That's what I do too but these guys had the bad luck to run straight into a patrol on the way and got pinned down between them and Lost, and I hadn't given them a Lost grenade. But they kept running after getting chewed up some. Fun.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Ironwood on September 06, 2017, 10:16:10 AM
The golden rule of covert ops troops :

Fuck those guys.


Seriously.  Fuck Those Guys.  They're the muppets you send in that you DON'T CARE ABOUT.

Hire 3 of them.  Name them after the 3 Amigos.  Thereafter, Fuck Those Guys.  If they die, hire more.  If they get promoted or bond, hooray.  But either way;  fuck those guys.



Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Threash on September 06, 2017, 12:41:46 PM
I use covert ops to buff my A-Team more than anything else, my reaper templar is up to something absurd like 21 mobility.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Ironwood on September 06, 2017, 03:04:01 PM
Nah.  Fuck those guys.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: WayAbvPar on September 08, 2017, 08:29:51 PM
If there is a stat bonus for the mission I use one of my regulars, otherwise it is the dregs of my roster.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Fabricated on September 08, 2017, 09:53:32 PM
Took out the assassin just now despite being so tired I can barely keep my eyes open and I accidentally took 5 soldiers instead of the 6 I could- and I convinced myself I hadn't bought the second squadsize upgrade.

The assassin does not last long when being double-tapped in the face with a shotgun by my ranger with a +1 shotgun damage research bonus and talon rounds.

Also, this is fantastic: https://clips.twitch.tv/UnusualShyLadiesSuperVinlin


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Khaldun on September 09, 2017, 07:04:13 AM
Got the last Chosen, it was the Warlock. I kinda miss them, but when they start to get close to a full bar of information, I feel like I really want to take them out. Feels like the rest of the game is the same as the pre-xpac endgame, but I will see.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Threash on September 09, 2017, 08:33:26 AM
Got the last Chosen, it was the Warlock. I kinda miss them, but when they start to get close to a full bar of information, I feel like I really want to take them out. Feels like the rest of the game is the same as the pre-xpac endgame, but I will see.


It is and the avatars feel really lame in comparison. They should have just kept the rumored fourth faction and fourth chosen and made this into a brand new game.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Khaldun on September 09, 2017, 12:28:48 PM
Yeah. That would be really great, if there was an endgame twist that relates to the Chosen.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Threash on September 09, 2017, 12:58:36 PM
Well if you don't kill them they show up on the last mission, but that's kinda lame. The Chosen should have been the end game.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: lamaros on September 12, 2017, 04:51:40 PM
Am I the only one pretty bummed out by this expansion? Yeah it improves the game a little, but the choosen are DLC level additions, and the rest of the stuff was just light implementation of existing mods?

I'm not really seeing the value in the expansion?


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Khaldun on September 12, 2017, 08:01:47 PM
Don't take this wrong, but you seem to be the most joyless person on this board. Like, you are annoyed by or dislike things that even the toughest, most cynical people here kind of love. I have never gotten a clear picture of what you like.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: lamaros on September 12, 2017, 10:31:14 PM
Well it's not a blog, is it? I'm not here to tell you how great my day was.

Some people tend to more strongly associate criticism with negativity than others. I'm sorry if my criticism is getting you down.

You can go to the Prometheus thread and bask in the joy of people disliking my liking of that movie, if you wish? Or all the books I've mentioned liking in the book thread, or whatever floats your boat to let you know I'm a normal functioning jukan who likes stuff, just maybe not in synch with a convention you've internalised to date...

I'm making more of an effort to express my delight of things in sync with my criticism, but it's not something that I naturally lean to when I have a particular point I'm looking to discuss.

It will make me happy it this disclaimer makes you worry less about my aptitude for joy.

I'm going hiking this weekend and have been exuberently preparing for it all week - yay!

/Crazy self justification

Anyhow, I've played hundreds hours of XCOM and XCOM2, I really enjoy it.

But this expansion feels like a collection of small DLC, rather than an expansion. I'm not finding it as different or as unified in its elements as I'd hoped.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Phildo on September 12, 2017, 10:37:16 PM
I kind putting the expansion down in frustration, actually.  It throws too much at you way too early.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Ceryse on September 13, 2017, 12:12:21 AM
It does throw a lot at you early, but I don't think it is much of a problem, especially if you've played the game without War of the Chosen installed.

Personally, I'm a bit put-off by how much easier it has made certain aspects of the game. Unless the Chosen proc certain strengths they tend to be push-overs (like everything late game they just drop when you get skills like Banish) and managing the Avatar progress is so easy that it makes the counter almost pointless as you just have so many ways to counter it. Only reason I've done black sites at all was to nuke down the Rulers.

And I say this as someone who has, generally, been very 'average' at the game. I generally played on normal difficulty, but I've been breezing through Commander difficulty and am likely going to bump it up to Legendary after this run.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Ironwood on September 13, 2017, 03:19:26 AM
For me, the expansion is just that ;  it's an expansion.  It builds on the base game and adds a lot more options and things to do and 'stuff'.  It improves immensely on the base game, imo, and gives it a lot more fun as well as interest.

Now that I have it and I've completed it on 'duff mode', I would say that I think it was priced rather high for what it was, but you'd probably spend that much on a new game, which for enjoyers of XCOM, this is what it is.

I think it depends on how much you enjoyed the original and if you really see yourself going back and playing it for some really cool newness.  Let's not also forget the VAST improvements in loading times and whatnot, which I would have paid for anyway !



Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Phildo on September 13, 2017, 09:19:18 AM
I've played maybe five missions so far in the goddamn Chosen assassin has shown up in three of them to randomly gank one of my four squad members before I can even fire at the bastard.  Not fun.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Merusk on September 13, 2017, 10:33:24 AM
Yeah, that's gotten really old, REALLY quick. Still not out of the first month as I keep reloading because of RNG and Chosen bullshit. I'm averaging one completed combat every 3 real-times days. So much fuckery early on.

Hearing from you guys about how fucked the late-game is doesn't make me want to continue, either. A thorough balance-leveling pass seems to have been missed.



Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Khaldun on September 13, 2017, 10:48:53 AM
Yeah, they needed to do something to revise the late game. Either have two more-uber Chosen pop up once you're halfway up the Shadow Chamber tree, or beef up the Avatars, something significant. Having the Chosen weapons in particular lets you absolutely destroy stuff.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: WayAbvPar on September 13, 2017, 10:49:02 AM
Best plan when Chosen are around (especially the Assassin) is to keep your team close together. Not close enough to eat a grenade, but close enough to be able to spot the Chosen after they hit one of your troops and fuck off. Once they are spotted they are easy to wipe out.

I finally got a "Defend the Avenger" mission. That was really fun. It was like a crossover superhero movie using 8 of my team at once. 2 sharpshooters sitting back mauling the equipment with squadsight, while everyone else advanced a bit at a time and beat each pod.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Teleku on September 13, 2017, 10:56:17 PM
Loving the hell out of this expansion.  I'd been wanting to go back and play again, forgot how good the game is.  They added a lot of nice stuff to this.

Wish there was a difficulty between commander and normal though.  I started several games as commander, since I've been playing these games for a long time, but ended up getting destroyed in all of them.  Eventually had to give up and go to normal difficulty.  While I've had a few tough spots, I've passed most missions without anybody dying, and have hit the late stage where my guys are becoming gods among men (Unlike you guys, I really enjoy it when my guys get fully buffed and unstoppable  :awesome_for_real:).

That commander difficulty though, god it hurts.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Ironwood on September 14, 2017, 04:21:13 AM
I think the main criticism you could level about the 'ease' is that the DOOMCLOCK DEATH COUNTDOWN is now absolutely trivial.  The missions to set the clock back are too easy and too numerous.  On my playthrough, keeping the clock at 2 was just a cakewalk.

And, yes, the Avatars just pale in comparison to the Chosen.  They should have been beefed up, since I giggled so hard when they turned up as 'BIG BADS' and we had all the Chosen weapons.  They're Psionic, ffs, and by that stage you have a guaranteed crit psionic rifle. 

Sooooo lol.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Teleku on September 15, 2017, 04:18:00 AM
Yeah, that's fair.  I remember in my first play through I did have to scramble a few times to keep the Avatar counter from reaching the top.  Not really a problem anymore.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Fabricated on September 15, 2017, 05:53:08 AM
The Avatar project becomes literally background noise so long as the chosen and other randomness doesn't chew your roster up too bad.

The chosen are mostly a persistent but not terrible obstacle that regularly shows up unless they roll up really obnoxious combos of weaknesses/strengths. I think they do a good job of forcing you to not ignore them and definitely work better than the goddamn Alien Rulers did.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Khaldun on September 15, 2017, 10:14:19 AM
I think in my playthrough the Warlock eventually was pretty tough because of Dark Events--he lost his weaknesses and gained a new strength. Plus for whatever reason, he was better at getting to a trooper he'd managed to stun and getting the info off of him.

If they decide to make another expansion that ratchets up the endgame after the Chosen go down, I'd buy that for sure. But I'd just as soon they go ahead and work on X-Com 3, which looks as if it's going to be a TFTD remake of some sort.

(I kind of hope they even go on to make a new version of X-Com Apocalypse--I actually kind of liked that game, though not as much as the first two originals.)


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Threash on September 15, 2017, 10:27:43 AM
The game has always had a problem of starting hard and becoming easier as you go along, the chosen and their rewards just make this a lot more pronounced. I've been playing the shit out of this since it came out, but I stop before the "victory lap" ending, there's really no point basically when your team is basically The Avengers.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Teleku on September 15, 2017, 10:39:25 AM
See, I get that.....

But I for one, after all the blood, hardship, and screaming profanities at my monitor, enjoy taking that victory lap with my version of the avengers (complete with different colored armored outfits and customization for each of my hard earned bad asses).   :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Ironwood on September 15, 2017, 10:43:08 AM
Yup


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Khaldun on September 15, 2017, 05:24:25 PM
Fuck yeah. Of course I'm playing it. I like for once that I don't have an absolutely nut-crunching last boss or something. It feels right to the game--you've lost a lot of people, you've struggled through a lot: you want to fucking WIN and send them crying home to mommy.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Phildo on September 18, 2017, 09:31:06 PM
Finally got over the early content barrage and have a nice campaign rolling.  It definitely makes you use your whole roster a lot more than you had to previously, I can never find one of my top six when I need them.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Khaldun on September 18, 2017, 09:54:31 PM
Yeah, that was another nice thing--it really did shake me loose of having my Magnificent Six and made me use more troopers in more ways. That was good.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Phildo on September 19, 2017, 08:48:09 AM
It's a little silly that dudes can get "tired" for over a week, but it works.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Merusk on September 19, 2017, 09:07:49 AM
Yeah, it's one of the best and most annoying changes at the same time.  "But, damnit, I NEED Jane and Warhawk on this team. Why's she more tired than him, they're buddies!"

I forgot to build a resistance relay the first two months. I might be fucked.  Avatar project at 5 and I still have two zones to unlock to get to the second black ops site with 8 days left to build the comms. Good news is the Assassin is no longer a problem. She dies like a bitch now that I have mag weapons and a few snipers with squadsight.

I ran into an odd bug last night.  My 3rd ranger hit Sgt and I couldn't pick Shadowstep. The UI simply wouldn't let me so I had to pick the less-awesome "+attack/ +crit from stealth" trait.  Anyone else run into this?


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Ironwood on September 19, 2017, 09:09:46 AM
Yes, I had that bug.  I just skipped the promotion (it happened to me after a mission) and then promoted them from the barracks.  That worked.

I thought it was just me.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Threash on September 20, 2017, 09:09:07 AM
Yeah, that's been happening since launch, but its only on the after mission screen. Just skip the promotion and do it later.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: WayAbvPar on September 20, 2017, 10:28:37 AM
I have had some trouble finding the active box to click a couple of times, but eventually dialed in and got it done.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Ironwood on September 20, 2017, 04:36:39 PM
That's what she said ?


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: WayAbvPar on September 20, 2017, 04:43:39 PM
You forget, I am married. So I forget whatever it is you are implying.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Fabricated on September 24, 2017, 05:45:25 PM
All 3 Chosen down. Man, once your Reaper gets banish it becomes pretty easy to one-round Chosen. The hunter went down like a chump, moreso than the first two.

I do like I don't have an A-Squad or B-Squad now though. I really just mix and match to cover my bases. I'm just now bothering with the Codex Brain/Stasis Suit shadow chamber research because I kept getting really good breakthroughs. Doom Ticker is a complete, complete non-issue now. The only thing that can destroy you at this point are really shitty council missions since those seem to be throwing phalanxes of Sectopods/spectres/etc at me.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Phildo on September 24, 2017, 09:28:28 PM
Did you modify the Reaper's rifle with +4 ammunition?  Banish is ridiculous.

I found at the end of the game that the sniper's pistol abilities were surprisingly useful, too.  It was well worth spending extra points to max out both trees on one of them.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Khaldun on September 24, 2017, 09:31:46 PM
Pistol is very useful now, yeah.

Multiple Spectres and Sectopods in the same reveal is about the only thing that makes me think hard in the late game.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Strazos on September 24, 2017, 10:36:09 PM
Warlock showed up for the first time in a Retaliation mission. He futzed around a bit...and then got 1-rounded by a swarm of low-level defenders; I never had to engage him with my own team.

Also, some of the expanded training opportunities are incredible. I now have a Ranger with Serial - just slapped a superior expanded mag and superior laser sight on his gun, dropped in some Talon Rounds, and watch him go to town in crowds. Also, being able to buy both trees on a single Specialist is pretty great.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: WayAbvPar on September 27, 2017, 12:13:32 AM
Taking control of Sectopods is the most fun you can have with your pants on. If you are wearing pants when you do it, at least.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Polysorbate80 on September 27, 2017, 12:05:11 PM
I still prefer dominating gatekeepers and using them as wrecking balls to just smash up the map.  'Cuz they're pretty damn useless in combat.

Except for last night when it popped up late in a Lost-infested mission, and used its mass reanimation power on the 30-ish dead zombies laying around the group  :ye_gods:

I barely had enough firepower with line-of-sight of it to one-round the thing to death.  The game still got twitchy after that; I don't know if it was the number of active troops in such a small area or sorting out what was undead/dead/not-dead again/back to dead. 


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Strazos on September 27, 2017, 09:48:27 PM
I LIVE I DIE I LIVE AGAIN *dead*


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: WayAbvPar on September 28, 2017, 11:04:50 AM
I haven't managed a Gatekeeper yet. They just terrify me so I kill them as quickly as possible.

Have had some fun with Domination too. Archons are amusing to use, but I wanna try one of the huge berserker guys to Kool-Aid around the map.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: dd0029 on September 29, 2017, 01:32:47 PM
Andromabro is the best for domination.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Fabricated on September 29, 2017, 04:54:15 PM
Did you modify the Reaper's rifle with +4 ammunition?  Banish is ridiculous.

I found at the end of the game that the sniper's pistol abilities were surprisingly useful, too.  It was well worth spending extra points to max out both trees on one of them.
Pistol-slinger snipers with the darkclaw and venom rounds can fuck up a whole screen worth of enemies.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: WayAbvPar on September 29, 2017, 05:23:20 PM
I just got some venom rounds for one of my sharpshooters and he killed one of the giant berserker dudes in one round with Lightning Hands/Rifle/Pistol.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Strazos on October 01, 2017, 11:11:10 PM
It makes me a sad that rapid fire doesn't use squadsight.

What makes me less sad are pimped-out plasma rifles on specialists, who can get auto-oversight on double moves + guardian for extra shots.

Or Serial on a ranger - that's a lot of fun.

Seeing as this is a second playthrough, I kept the difficulty on normal (though still ironman), so this is more about fun than anything else. At this point, I'm really just playing with advent - getting every crazy weapon upgrade, including 3 attachments and higher damage mods. I finally got a Spark, and I think he's rank 3 now, though I'm not convinced they're better than normal troops. I'm enjoying the faction heros as well, who are often at least partially better than normal troops...though the way I equipped Mox, he's often better than a normal trooper.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: WayAbvPar on October 02, 2017, 01:18:07 AM
I used my Spark once and never repaired it. Troops are a lot better. Although at higher difficulties it would be nice to have basically a replaceable combat unit I guess.


Title: Re: XCOM 2
Post by: Threash on October 02, 2017, 02:47:52 PM
They are better than normal troops in that they don't get tired so you can take them on mission after mission. Also shred armor by default and overdrive is awesome once you take the perk that gets rid of the penalties. They are crazy expensive though, 200 just to build one and their upgrades cost just as much as full roster upgrades for all your other troops which makes them cost prohibitive.