Crowfall aka Play2Crush aka Shadowbane II aka Nostalgia Online

[HaemishM]

Eh, would you rather be king of your own realm or somebodies bitch?

It's a PVP game. You WILL be somebody's bitch at some point.

[Draegan]

I still don't understand why everyone is not going to stick to their own kingdom rather than go be someone's tenant or vassal.

I would imagine it has something to do with marketplaces. There isn't a global marketplace so setting up shop in someone's kingdom so you can buy and sell stuff iis what you'll want to do. I imagine that there will be some popular guild's or person's EK that has more player shops than others and that just snowballs.

[tazelbain]

I expect EK to be nothing more than trophy room.

[Draegan]

I expect EK to be nothing more than trophy room.

They are going to be small economic hubs. The one thing that ACE doesn't have down is how the import/export rules will work. That's really the key to everything.

[Tannhauser]

I still don't understand why everyone is not going to stick to their own kingdom rather than go be someone's tenant or vassal.

I would imagine it has something to do with marketplaces. There isn't a global marketplace so setting up shop in someone's kingdom so you can buy and sell stuff iis what you'll want to do. I imagine that there will be some popular guild's or person's EK that has more player shops than others and that just snowballs.

This is my take on it too.  It's like UO where you knew what houses kept the good stuff supplied at reasonable rates so you kept coming back.

[Soulflame]

I did that for three months in UO.  Mined ore, turned out quality weapons and suits of armor, put on vendor for monies.  I finally gave up because I couldn't sustain the level of effort needed to keep it going.  Sold quite a bit too.

I did keep crafting gear for myself.

And I started initially because the first X vendors I found stopped selling, in succession.  Usually three to six months after I found them.  And the search wasn't easy, either.  It took hours, over a few days, of wandering from house to house, checking each vendor.  I finally got mad enough to level up a craftsman, because the sheer inconvenience of looking was too much.

Not that the UO marketplace search was that good, when they implemented it.

[ezrast]

It would make sense for EK to host some Farmville stuff, to give players a bit of persistent personal progression and help retain "casuals". Give players a gold star for watering their rhododendrons every day and have campaign areas drop +2 fertilizer even when you lose, to entice the sheep to play with the wolves.

It doesn't sound like there will be any real benefit for most players to be "king of their own realm" rather than a vassal. If you've got n tiles of land you've got n tiles of land, and unless you're part of the 0.1% of players whose plots are exciting enough for other players to hang out or PvP in, being able to make the rules doesn't really matter. All being a vassal does is make it easier to show off your stuff to your guildies.

[Tannhauser]

It might be in the notes, but maybe being a vassal gets you farming bonuses or other benefits from your lord.  I would like it if:
1.  I have a little nice castle and fields that I can do piddly daily quests in.  NO invasions unless I 'unlock' the fief for some benefit.
2.  Then I can sneak onto the battlefield and harvest a quick node or two (the watering hole scenario) and get back without being ganked.
3.  Then my liege posts quests that offer serious risk/reward quests.

You get the idea.

[Rendakor]

The EKs will matter if the campaigns that let you bring in pre-made gear are popular. If everyone only plays in the FFA, full loot, no bringing gear in worlds then there's no point in having a fancy crafting paradise EK because the shit you make there means fuckall.

[Draegan]

I basically look at EKs as wow garrisons you can build.

[Falconeer]

1.4 Million made. 48 hours to go and Minotaurs announced as the next goal, together with some Religious war mode that has 12 factions representing 12 gods and goddesses battling each other.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9YFn1bkHik

[Teleku]

Same reason lots of corps in eve join a big alliance as a tenant rather not than try to hold their own space.  It's just way less hassle, and your get to be part of a bigger organization that gives you a lot more options. Even if you have to pay rent.

[Merusk]

I get you're drooling over this but that was weak defense. 

In Eve the reality is you join or be crushed, not that it's "way less hassle."  Not so here in the EK.  There has to be more bonus to joining another kingdom - particularly when you have your own.

Perhaps they have some systems of bonuses/ rewards for joining other kingdoms that isn't fleshed-out or detailed. Maybe you can only access certain Eternal Kingdoms from the other 'rings' so the limitation is geographic/ logistics based.  That might work.

Telling me "go here and pay rent because *access*" is weaksauce in a virtual environment where realm-hopping outside of any designed limitations is trivial. 

You've got to enforce limitations at the design level so it's not: Right now I'm in Teleku's EK.. *click/ load* now I'm in Falconeer's where I can hunt down more deals.

[Teleku]

You are right, we don't know how it's all going to play out.  I'm assuming the same PvP motivations that drive people in eve and every other PvP game to join larger organizations will still be in play.  Trying not to be 'crushed' using your own limited resources counts as more hassle.  :p

[Draegan]

I get you're drooling over this but that was weak defense.  

In Eve the reality is you join or be crushed, not that it's "way less hassle."  Not so here in the EK.  There has to be more bonus to joining another kingdom - particularly when you have your own.

Perhaps they have some systems of bonuses/ rewards for joining other kingdoms that isn't fleshed-out or detailed. Maybe you can only access certain Eternal Kingdoms from the other 'rings' so the limitation is geographic/ logistics based.  That might work.

Telling me "go here and pay rent because *access*" is weaksauce in a virtual environment where realm-hopping outside of any designed limitations is trivial.  

You've got to enforce limitations at the design level so it's not: Right now I'm in Teleku's EK.. *click/ load* now I'm in Falconeer's where I can hunt down more deals.

Joining EK reasons:
1) More popular, higher population, better chance to find good materials and sell your own. Or in other words: Location Location Location.
2) Guilds and players can earn artifacts and relics. You can only equip 3 of them (combination of both, not 3 of each), and they give bonuses to crafting and stuff. You can join an EK with access to awesome crafting bonuses.

Just to elaborate on location. You can hop to whomever's EK you want supposedly (they haven't mentioned any limitations so I'm assuming that). There are no global auction houses so you have to go where the people are hanging out. There are going to be places that just pop up that have higher concentrations of people. It'll snowball and create it's own community that way. Should be interesting to watch. I believe they mentioned that you can set up a player shop to sell stuff. Do you want to set it up in your own lonely world or pay rent in someone's really popular EK where you might make a sale?

[Bzalthek]

Telling me "go here and pay rent because *access*" is weaksauce in a virtual environment where realm-hopping outside of any designed limitations is trivial. 

You've got to enforce limitations at the design level so it's not: Right now I'm in Teleku's EK.. *click/ load* now I'm in Falconeer's where I can hunt down more deals.

Considering there's a lot we don't know, everything should be taken with a grain of salt, but there is usually incentive to be "someone's bitch".  Access is nothing to be sneezed at.  If there is no Auction House it's not just a *click/load* process.  Do you want to spend the afternoon *click/load* a thousand times to get that great deal, or are you going to Duke Pyreton's EK?  Lord Pyreton plays a LOT, and he's talked all kinds of crafters into his emporium.  If you need it there's probably a crafter there selling it. 

Or if you're trying to sell your shit, you can lone wolf it, sure.  You have your own little fiefdome set up that nobody knows about and nobody is willing to go there except those guys who get off on finding great deals.  You are essentially the out of the way merchants in EQ people scoured looking for crap in their sell inventories which people sold off not wanting to price check and sell in EC tunnel  (That tunnel being an argument unto itself).  Lord Pyreton, however, has the lowest taxes and a bustling player visitation rate.  You are sure to sell your shit in his EK.

[Paelos]

The endless spamming to visit EK's is going to be annoying.

[Hutch]

The kickstarter ends tomorrow. They funded, obviously, and are trending towards $1.5 million.

Which is probably closer to what they were hoping for 

[Threash]

I was hoping they made it to the combat pet goal, but it seems unlikely.

[Draegan]

I'm sure every single goal is going to be made, just not at release. Were they really not going to have mounts ever?

[Threash]

I'm sure every single goal is going to be made, just not at release. Were they really not going to have mounts ever?

Well they said the maps had to be designed from the ground up with mounts/caravans in mind or not at all, so yeah that was basically a now or never thing.  Everything else was probably going to show up eventually, depending on how the game does.

[Tmon]

I'm sure every single goal is going to be made, just not at release. Were they really not going to have mounts ever?

Well they said the maps had to be designed from the ground up with mounts/caravans in mind or not at all, so yeah that was basically a now or never thing.  Everything else was probably going to show up eventually, depending on how the game does.

I suspect they'll eventually find a way to include them if there is money in it.  They'll probably release an expansion with new worlds to conquer and use the old maps in No Horse, No Caravan restricted campaigns.

[Paelos]

My only question is when they plan to have a beta goal. Other than that, I am not concerned with the design decision process.

[tazelbain]

Doesn't seem like an amount that's going to turn any VC heads.

[Draegan]

I'm sure every single goal is going to be made, just not at release. Were they really not going to have mounts ever?

Well they said the maps had to be designed from the ground up with mounts/caravans in mind or not at all, so yeah that was basically a now or never thing.  Everything else was probably going to show up eventually, depending on how the game does.

That is just some PR speak right there. Don't buy into that.

[tazelbain]

The procedurally generated maps have designed? Sounds like nonsense.

[Threash]

It was more like the algorithm to design them had to take into account whether mounts were a thing or not, i guess.

[Falconeer]

1.725.000 with four hours to go (zero, when y'all will wake up).

Not bad. Especially the last few days. Yesterday, with 172k raised, has been their second highest day of the whole campaign. Everything that could be unlocked has been unlocked. Including the ridiculous VR stuff which was a very stupid thing to promise to begin with.

Campaign over. Funded at 1.766.000

[Paelos]

Now we get to see if they can pull anything together before we all stop caring.

[Malakili]

On the other hand, the good thing about not caring is that if it does turn out to be good then you can just buy it. 

[Paelos]

I think the main purpose of contributing early in this thing would be the discounting VIP access, lower price, and VIP access for the gamble.

Which I can understand if you've got an idea on a product. This seems more fleshed out than most with a deliverable idea. Not all their ideas are deliverable and I still think they need more money.

[Sophismata]

They could start selling mounts, or furniture for your digital house, at $1000 a pop to cover costs…

[Paelos]

They could start selling mounts, or furniture for your digital house, at $1000 a pop to cover costs…

Digital castles. This one has built in wenches.

[Draegan]

I never matched up names, but the guy who help design the combat system IN DCUO is on this project. That bodes well imo. DCUO had really great combat.

[Paelos]

One of the reasons I'm interested in this is the crafting and the idea of voxel environments. If they have non-Wow combat that functions well for peeveepee I'll probably play it for several years.