Crowfall aka Play2Crush aka Shadowbane II aka Nostalgia Online

[Typhon]

I don't think this is a sub-game.  I think this is a GW game with new rule sets/worlds as the DLC.  And hats.   Not entirely kidding about the hats, but everything else was serious.

A PvP game needs players.  They are already starting off cutting off everyone who is turned off by the format.  Add subs on top of that and they are just wasting their time.

I don't think what they've described and the capital they seem to have on hand could support a "hats only" model.  Which leaves game purchase + DLC + hats.

[WayAbvPar]

They should make the default server type FFA and then charge people to access the increasingly more carebear-ish options at each step.

[HaemishM]

OK so what's reasonable for you people? 100k? 50k?

I mean you realize the market expanded right? This isn't EQ of 2001.

The market has expanded, but subscription based games aren't the hotness anymore.  200,000 subscribers at 10 bucks a month sustained for an entire year would strike me as an absolutely HUGE success story for this game.

This. Big name games with big name funding with big marketing budgets i.e. Bioware/Star Wars couldn't sustain enough subs to keep from going F2P (granted they had an insanely stupid dev budget to make up). A Play2Crush PVP game made by no-names (and I don't mean no-names in the sense of nobodies but a dev house that has no prior releases) with an uncertain marketing budget that's crowdfunding? 25-50k subscribers ought to be a more realistic level of success and you'll be lucky if you can hold subs for 3 months instead of 6.

[Draegan]

You are aware that SWTOR has around a half million subscribers and three times that in free to play and cash shop players. It's obvious a game like this isn't the target audience of the majority of people here, but there is a huge market for player verse player games. The only thing is that every single game that totes PVP has been shit, but I think initial purchases of games shows that there is a demand.

If this game isn't shitty, I think it can be successful at the 150-300k mark. It's almost impossible to make a non-shitty MMO these days though.

[Paelos]

Draegan and I actually agree, I don't think this is anywhere near as complicated as yall are making it sound.

The players are out there, they want something that's not even close to WoW. Shit even TESO had subs show up for 3-6 months, and it was a dumpster fire.

The thing about MMOs these days is that with the amount of information, it's easy to get people involved if the game is good. The key is good.

Shit I think the rebooted FF game is up over what? 1M subs now?

[Draegan]

I actually forgot about FF. I would guess around 400k. Only guessing though.

[schild]

You have to have an actual working game (to some degree / lol early access) to really make money. Let's get there first.

(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

[Paelos]

Nah I hope we can get to at least 50 pages of thread before they even have a plan.

[Velorath]

You have to have an actual working game (to some degree / lol early access) to really make money. Let's get there first.

(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

Or at the very least some concept art of spaceships.

[Falconeer]

You are creating something that just doesn't exist today. And it's funny how on f13 you can have pages and pages where the majority keeps saying that NO ONE wants to play a full loot pvp game, then all of a sudden a few pop up saying 200k subs are possible. 200k players wlling to pay monthly for THIS kind of game?! There aren't 200k players that would play it for free. There aren't even 200k players that would play it if they got paid 10$ a month to do it. We (those who love this kind of games) have been saying it for a long time, and even recently, in this and other threads. You can't just decide that YEAH WHY NOT?! Because not. There are not 200k players willing to play2crush. I really believe things could be different in five years or so, but right now they just don't exist and I really hope the people making Crowfall don't believe the two of you.

It is irrelevant if Final Fantasy or SWTOR make a billion subs a month. First of all you are comparing IPs like Final Fantasy and Star Wars to... Crowfall. Shame on you. Second, you are comparing studios like Square Enix and Bioware to... Todd Coleman & friends. Are you serious?

So yes, if they somehow made an awesome game, eventually the play2crush market could grow into some bigger numbers. But considering where they are starting from, the little funds and the negative bias people have about these games, it's insane to think they could aspire to anything more than 50k subs at first. In fact, that would probably be a miraculous success.

[Threash]

Yeah, 50k subs or 200k free players would be a success.

[Draegan]

You are creating something that just doesn't exist today. And it's funny how on f13 you can have pages and pages where the majority keeps saying that NO ONE wants to play a full loot pvp game, then all of a sudden a few pop up saying 200k subs are possible. 200k players wlling to pay monthly for THIS kind of game?! There aren't 200k players that would play it for free. There aren't even 200k players that would play it if they got paid 10$ a month to do it. We (those who love this kind of games) have been saying it for a long time, and even recently, in this and other threads. You can't just decide that YEAH WHY NOT?! Because not. There are not 200k players willing to play2crush. I really believe things could be different in five years or so, but right now they just don't exist and I really hope the people making Crowfall don't believe the two of you.

It is irrelevant if Final Fantasy or SWTOR make a billion subs a month. First of all you are comparing IPs like Final Fantasy and Star Wars to... Crowfall. Shame on you. Second, you are comparing studios like Square Enix and Bioware to... Todd Coleman & friends. Are you serious?

So yes, if they somehow made an awesome game, eventually the play2crush market could grow into some bigger numbers. But considering where they are starting from, the little funds and the negative bias people have about these games, it's insane to think they could aspire to anything more than 50k subs at first. In fact, that would probably be a miraculous success.

We weren't comparing games, but pointing out successful sub models still exist. Had really nothing to do with the game.

[Paelos]

I'm pointing out that 200k isn't some kind of mass appeal. If the combat is the same wow flavored combat garbage? The game will fail badly. If it's remotely interesting or action based? It can hit a big niche being for that type of game

[Draegan]

They already stated that it's some form of action based. It's got that for them at least.

[Threash]

They said no tab target, melee skills hit in an arc in front of you.  So at worse GW2 style combat i guess.

[Malakili]

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/1214/view/news/read/33854/Crowfall-Buy-Once-Play-Forever-Revealed-as-Revenue-Model.html

The Crowfall site has a trio of goodies for fans today. The first comes in the form of the first revealed spell caster called the Confessor. The Confessor's page has a small, but interesting, back story as well as both male and female screenshots.

The second treat is a rather large lore article that gives the first information about the origins of the known Universe, and a look at Valkyn's children. Called "War of the Gods Part 1, it can be read here.

Lastly, potential players get the first information about the pricing model that Crowfall will utilize in a new FAQ. Crowfall will be a "buy once, play forever" game. According to estimations, the price will hover around the $50 mark but optional VIP membership will be offered for $15 a month. Benefits of VIP include:

-“Behind the scenes” access to the development of the game
-VIP members can use passive training for all 3 character slots (not just 1)
-Priority access to all game servers
-VIP frame / badge on the forums
-Discount pricing on any purchases
-Other cool (non-balance affecting) benefits as we think of them!

Additionally, players can trade goods and services to other players and attain VIP status. At this time, the pricing model is for North America only until such time as international publication rights are purchased.

Seems ok I guess.

[Lantyssa]

An acceptable pricing model.  I may hate the game that comes out, but at least they're doing some things right.

[Gimfain]

Its a good model for this kind of game, P2P would just make it another dead game within 3 months where it would have to switch model anyway, and noone would want a P2W cash shop.

[WayAbvPar]

Hopefully VIP will be purchasable with in game currency as well.

[Threash]

Hopefully VIP will be purchasable with in game currency as well.

Thats what the quote says.

[Paelos]

Sounds good by me. Buy this game, get perks with a sub.

[Triforcer]

I am assuming "buy cosmetic items" means "buy hypercrates" or "buy keys and have a 1% chance at a rare hat effect."  Lottery tickets fly off the cash shop faster than known quantities.

[Paelos]

I am assuming "buy cosmetic items" means "buy hypercrates" or "buy keys and have a 1% chance at a rare hat effect."  Lottery tickets fly off the cash shop faster than known quantities.

Sure but I don't care about that stuff. If they make money there, go for it. I'm not that market. I'm a sub or don't sub market.

[Threash]

As long as it is cosmetic stuff or other things that don't impact gameplay it doesn't matter one bit what they do with the shop.  But yes, gambling has been shown to be the most successful method so we'll probably see lots of that.

[Maven]

I'll wait for the Beta.

[Ginaz]

Their VIP program sounds a lot like what TSW does, which is good because I don't think I've heard many bad things about how TSW handles it.

[Falconeer]

Under the "account" tab on the official page there's an entry that tells you in what beta group you are. It was first come first serve. I thought I was among the very first, but it says beta group 3 

[Threash]

I'm guessing 3 was the first group you could get into when the site went live.  I'm in 3 also and i didn't sign up until this thread came up.

[HaemishM]

I just now signed up and I'm in beta 6.

[KallDrexx]

Only thing that worries me in that list is priority entrance into servers.

[Nija]

The list of asshats working on this doesn't worry you?

[Paelos]

The list of asshats working on this doesn't worry you?

Raph's an asshat now?

[Tannhauser]

I signed up for the beta.  I really like the artwork and some of their concepts, like the Hunger.  Confessor is an early favorite archetype. 

[Paelos]

I signed up too. Then again I sign up for a lot of shit. I betaed TESO which is why I bet against it in the first place.

[Nija]

Raph's an asshat now?

If only I could dredge up my remarks about some of the UO decisions in alpha/beta. I've had it out for him since he was known as DD, not by first name.