Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
August 21, 2018, 02:48:06 PM

Login with username, password and session length

Search:     Advanced search
Donate! | Shop: Amazon
*
Home Help Search Login Register
f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  Gaming  |  Topic: Overwatch 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 ... 27 Go Down Print
Author Topic: Overwatch  (Read 75827 times)
Hutch
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1892


Reply #105 on: November 09, 2014, 10:02:36 PM



LOL @ Blizzard managing class balance in a PvP setting. They couldn't do it in WoW, when their A team was still around (and still can't). There's zero chance that these back benchers can handle it.


I'll be the first to criticize blizzard for a ton of shit but as far as the mount fucking everest of balancing MMO classes goes I am having a hard time thinking of any studio which did it better overall.

Saying that they did MMO PvP class balancing better than anyone else, is not the same thing as saying they've done a good job at it.

I'm not trying to have an argument with you about this. I am down on Blizzard right now. I have found it tiresome, over the years, to have otherwise fun and/or useful abilities removed/altered/nerfed because they made my class/build "too effective" in PvP. The upcoming expansion is just the latest round.

Plant yourself like a tree
Haven't you noticed? We've been sharing our culture with you all morning.
The sun will shine on us again, brother
Goreschach
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1546


Reply #106 on: November 09, 2014, 11:06:48 PM



LOL @ Blizzard managing class balance in a PvP setting. They couldn't do it in WoW, when their A team was still around (and still can't). There's zero chance that these back benchers can handle it.


I'll be the first to criticize blizzard for a ton of shit but as far as the mount fucking everest of balancing MMO classes goes I am having a hard time thinking of any studio which did it better overall.

Saying that they did MMO PvP class balancing better than anyone else, is not the same thing as saying they've done a good job at it.


Your point being? If they've done MMO balance better than other companies, even if still shit, that suggests that they're better at balance than other companies.
Maven
Terracotta Army
Posts: 914


Reply #107 on: November 09, 2014, 11:45:27 PM

Let's say there is a scale to measure the quality of Class Balance from 1 to 10. This scale only applies to WoW and similar MMOs. If the industry average is 3, and Blizzard is 5 (the highest recorded), then we should ignore how Blizzard relates to the industry average and still consider Blizzard's class balance skills shit.

That's what I took out of it, which isn't fair to Blizzard. The inherent differences between PVE and PVP fused into the same world using the same classes, skills and itemization ... I don't even think a theoretical model *exists* for what class balance would look like. Does one that doesn't turn the game into pre-Trammel UO?

The only model that comes to mind is a hard split in a character's PVE and PVP skills, items, currencies, etc. Something like The Old Republic's divide between PVE and Galatic Starfighter. That is, don't even bother with the fusion.
Azazel
Contributor
Posts: 7694


Reply #108 on: November 10, 2014, 01:15:24 AM

LOL @ Blizzard managing class balance in a PvP setting. They couldn't do it in WoW, when their A team was still around (and still can't). There's zero chance that these back benchers can handle it.

To my mind, the biggest issue with WoW's class balance was (and still is) Too Many Masters. When they started to nerf PvE abilities because they didn't like the way they affected PvP it was bad enough. When they started trying to turn WoW-Arenas into an e-sport and started fucking with balance even further because of Arenas, WoW's overall balance just got worse.

With something like this in a TF3-type Team-PvP-FPS, it seems a lot more straightforward than the juggling that they have done so badly in WoW.

http://azazelx.wordpress.com/ - My Miniatures and Hobby Blog.
calapine
Terracotta Army
Posts: 5429

Solely responsible for the thread on "The Condom Wall."


Reply #109 on: November 10, 2014, 02:04:06 PM

What's balanced is relative anyway.

I played WoW during the vanilla days as Warrior (first arms, later fury) and Warlock and was pretty content about how the balance was.  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

Restoration is a perfectly valid school of magic!
MrHat
Terracotta Army
Posts: 7368

Out of the frying pan, into the fire.


Reply #110 on: November 10, 2014, 04:18:06 PM

You guys are crazy.

This looks super fun.  Yes it's an FPS and cartoony and what not.  But it'll probably be free and it's Blizzard so there will be hundreds of thousands of people to play with for a decent amount of time.

I bet it will take less than 30s from when you want to play the game to actually playing the game. 

It's instant gratification.
Nonentity
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2300

2009 Demon's Souls Fantasy League Champion


WWW
Reply #111 on: November 10, 2014, 07:51:40 PM

I played this 6-7 times at Blizzcon.

It's really fun. It will be painful to play solo, much like TF2 is to me, but the game is a good mash of TF2 and a MOBA, but with higher lethality. Even for a pre-alpha show floor demo, every part of it so far drips Blizzard polish money.

But that Captain's salami tray was tight, yo. You plump for the roast pork loin, dogg?

[20:42:41] You are halted on the way to the netherworld by a dark spirit, demanding knowledge.
[20:42:41] The spirit touches you and you feel drained.
Megrim
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2512

Whenever an opponent discards a card, Megrim deals 2 damage to that player.


Reply #112 on: November 10, 2014, 10:14:23 PM

Watched the trailer. The only thing it did was make me reinstall TF2.

One must bow to offer aid to a fallen man - The Tao of Shinsei.
Venkman
Terracotta Army
Posts: 11536


Reply #113 on: November 10, 2014, 11:11:56 PM

Also, people compare it to TF2. Sure as a class based FPS. But TF2 as a business? Is that even a thing? I mean, it came out in the same year as CoD4, the first Assassins Creed, the first Mass Effect. That's old. Kudos to anyone who can still be playing that seven years later, but I don't see the business of Overwatch in the context of TF2 any more than I see Far Cry 4 in the context of Crysis.

Not sure if I'm misinterpreting what you mean by this, but TF2 is pretty huge.  Currently it's the third most played game on Steam, behind Dota 2 and Counterstrike: GO (Civ 5 is still fifth, interestingly enough).  It's beating out CoD: Advanced Warfighter (on the PC, anyway).

Nah you didn't misinterpre, I just got it way wrong. Apparently this is more like the WoW of class based FPS than just an old FPS smiley In other words, I guess TF2 as a business is a thing.
Samprimary
Contributor
Posts: 3833


Reply #114 on: November 11, 2014, 03:07:12 AM



LOL @ Blizzard managing class balance in a PvP setting. They couldn't do it in WoW, when their A team was still around (and still can't). There's zero chance that these back benchers can handle it.


I'll be the first to criticize blizzard for a ton of shit but as far as the mount fucking everest of balancing MMO classes goes I am having a hard time thinking of any studio which did it better overall.

Saying that they did MMO PvP class balancing better than anyone else, is not the same thing as saying they've done a good job at it.


Your point being? If they've done MMO balance better than other companies, even if still shit, that suggests that they're better at balance than other companies.

It's pretty much my take on it. If time has proved anything about MMO's, it's that it is a veritable mount everest of balancing impossibility that few have really ever managed to a satisfactory or half-satisfactory degree, and even if it proves to be an insurmountable task, Blizzard has learned a lot in the process of (probably, unless i'm missing an MMO that did it better) getting the furthest away from base camp, so to speak.

Not to mention that they've got people there still maintaining one of the most iconic balancing acts of all time, between the races of starcraft.

As complicated as a weirdo mixup shuffle balancing act between team deathmatch and MOBA sounds, I take this away from it:

1. Blizzard seems like they are among a short list of groups that might possibly actually get it right enough that the game's very fun, and
2. There is no opportunity cost to us in their effort, or that blizzard is re-purposing their work on Titan and giving this a shot. It's just a chance of something cool. So, yay?
Ironwood
Terracotta Army
Posts: 27312


Reply #115 on: November 11, 2014, 05:49:16 AM

The opposite end of that spectrum, of course, is 'Fuck Blizzard, No More Money Ever.'

Of course, that's purely my stance and not even shared by the people IN MY OWN HOUSE.

Hey ho.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Samprimary
Contributor
Posts: 3833


Reply #116 on: November 11, 2014, 08:57:37 AM

You might just luck out in that department and this could be a vanity-powered f2p thing, wherein you can play for free until you want a hat.
Ironwood
Terracotta Army
Posts: 27312


Reply #117 on: November 11, 2014, 09:06:03 AM

These things are never free. Somehow, you always end up fucked.

Also, I have very poor impulse control as Wolverine and Iron Man (and his 3 suits) will tell you...

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Fordel
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8305


Reply #118 on: November 11, 2014, 01:06:22 PM

The more I watch the cinematic the more I just want it to be an actual movie or series.  why so serious?

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Merusk
Terracotta Army
Posts: 27447

Badge Whore


Reply #119 on: November 11, 2014, 02:16:31 PM

The more I watch the cinematic the more I just want it to be an actual movie or series.  why so serious?

Good news, then.  Metzen was Hyping-up the "LORE LORE LORE" at the "overwatch origins" talk at Blizzcon. To the point that he and the guy he was on stage with said something dumb about the background of one particular map and how important it was.  In an FPS.  The actual line was something like, "And if you stop for a second and look up at <location> you'll see <macguffin> which refers you back to <storyitem> so you can see just how deep this world is!"

It was talk like that which made it very obvious to me a lot of this game is recycled from Titan. Very little of the audience cares about lore in a FPS PVP game beyond, "Kill this team so you win."  I'm sure there's some hardcore Scout fanfic out there for TF2 that explores his intricate back story, but I'm willing to bet very few give a rats ass about it.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
Fordel
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8305


Reply #120 on: November 11, 2014, 02:42:47 PM

If (big if) Blizz could like, make shorts on par with the TF2 shorts Valve puts out, I would totally be on board.

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
schild
Administrator
Posts: 56973


WWW
Reply #121 on: November 11, 2014, 03:07:12 PM

Just figured out this was about a new game.

Will Shoulderpads replace Hats?

Let's not find out.
Maven
Terracotta Army
Posts: 914


Reply #122 on: November 11, 2014, 04:05:01 PM

I don't like that man. I'll spare you the rant.

How did Titanfall fare with its integrated storyline?
Merusk
Terracotta Army
Posts: 27447

Badge Whore


Reply #123 on: November 11, 2014, 05:15:26 PM

What man? Dude-bro-Mary-Sue-Factory?

It didn't. Though people seem to care about Destiny's story, but it's more RPG FPS than FPS Team Kill game.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
Maven
Terracotta Army
Posts: 914


Reply #124 on: November 11, 2014, 05:51:07 PM

I can't be objective with any perspective on him. He is high off his own kool-aid, and everyone drinks like the blood of Mannoroth because he's the boss they need to please.

I have difficulty accepting that there will be more going in to Blizzard games thinking Metzen is a genius because they don't know better.

I was like that, then I grew up. Metzen's unique quality that keeps him in his position are that all his friends are fellow executives, co-founders, and Art Leads. Which, I guess that's there right to keep their bud on.

Blizzard is a family company, in that once you go in, they'll make you think you're family, unless you betray the family, then you're shit-canned. But they try to take care of all their employees to the best of their ability. Most people leave of their own volition.
lamaros
Terracotta Army
Posts: 7575


Reply #125 on: November 11, 2014, 07:40:43 PM

I don't like Teamfortress, but I will give this a go before I start slagging it off.

Expect poison from the standing water.
Paelos
Contributor
Posts: 26814

Error 404: Title not found.


Reply #126 on: November 11, 2014, 10:15:33 PM

I can't be objective with any perspective on him. He is high off his own kool-aid, and everyone drinks like the blood of Mannoroth because he's the boss they need to please.

I have difficulty accepting that there will be more going in to Blizzard games thinking Metzen is a genius because they don't know better.

I was like that, then I grew up. Metzen's unique quality that keeps him in his position are that all his friends are fellow executives, co-founders, and Art Leads. Which, I guess that's there right to keep their bud on.

Blizzard is a family company, in that once you go in, they'll make you think you're family, unless you betray the family, then you're shit-canned. But they try to take care of all their employees to the best of their ability. Most people leave of their own volition.

Good, you should hate him. The rest of the normal players do at this point.

CPA, Sports blogger, Mount and Blade enthusiast
Braves by the Numbers, my sports blog
UnSub
Contributor
Posts: 8064


WWW
Reply #127 on: November 12, 2014, 06:59:47 AM

If (big if) Blizz could like, make shorts on par with the TF2 shorts Valve puts out, I would totally be on board.

The cinematic trailer looked good, but the content was damn weird - "Here's a game about killer mercenaries that children will find awesome!".

Fordel
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8305


Reply #128 on: November 12, 2014, 11:18:57 AM

How is that weird? Seems entirely believable to me!

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Segoris
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2637


Reply #129 on: November 12, 2014, 07:00:59 PM

Outside of being stylized, this does not remind me of TF2 in any way. This is more Transformers: War for Cyberton imo, but with a few more classes available to a team. This is a good thing as TF:WfC was fun as hell in multiplayer, and I say that as someone that prefers larger teams (10v10 or 12v12) but TF:WfC did 5v5 or 6v6. A lot of that came down to map design and having maps large enough to allow for multiple types of playstyles while being small enough that a 5v5 or 6v6 still felt fast paced. Good thing for Overwatch that Blizz has been pretty solid in terms of map creation. The biggest flaw that I remember for their maps was that Horde/Alliance may have been able to reach a certain point before the other team could (like in Arathi Basin) due to distance being a hair shorter.
Samprimary
Contributor
Posts: 3833


Reply #130 on: November 13, 2014, 01:15:05 AM

even with the character hammering a turret into being? or the flying medic?
Nija
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2130


Reply #131 on: November 13, 2014, 01:22:12 AM

Really? Doesn't remind you of TF2? A level 3 engineer turret that shoots rockets doesn't remind you of TF2?

What the fuck DOES remind of you TF2?!?
Segoris
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2637


Reply #132 on: November 13, 2014, 04:43:09 AM

even with the character hammering a turret into being? or the flying medic?

Engineer hammering and leveling turrets sure, turrets in general not really. Flying medic I associate more with Global Agenda (with their healing streams and jetpacks) than TF2, mostly because of the flying part.

Really? Doesn't remind you of TF2? A level 3 engineer turret that shoots rockets doesn't remind you of TF2?

What the fuck DOES remind of you TF2?!?

Really. It doesn't remind me of TF2 for gameplay. Turrets and rockets are not exlusive to tf2.

What does remind me of tf2 is a slower based, larger team format with a lot less higher tech gadgets (ex: the area based shield the tank-type dude put on a capture point, teleportation, flight) that are normally found in much different fps games than tf2. All that and hat stores. Global Agenda, Loadout, Transformers, etc all come to mind before tf2.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2014, 04:48:41 AM by Segoris »
Sky
Terracotta Army
Posts: 29701

I love my TV an' hug my TV an' call it 'George'.


WWW
Reply #133 on: November 13, 2014, 11:12:16 AM

I was pretty stoked by the Infinity stylization (Blizz again stealing a tabletop wargame IP surprise). But I loath the genre. Meh.


Megrim
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2512

Whenever an opponent discards a card, Megrim deals 2 damage to that player.


Reply #134 on: November 13, 2014, 04:47:37 PM

Mmmm, delicious Zerat.

One must bow to offer aid to a fallen man - The Tao of Shinsei.
Ginaz
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3444


Reply #135 on: January 12, 2015, 07:22:58 PM

Seems Blizzard has run into a snag with the US Patent & Trademark Office.  Someone else has filled a patent application WRT trademarking "Overwatch" in July 2014, several months before Blizzard did their big reveal at BlizzCon in Nov., for "goods and services related to game software and similar".  Both applications have been suspended as of now.  It'll be interesting to see if Blizzard can buy their way out of this, presumably giving the other company a truck full of money, or if they're forced to change the name.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=146785316&postcount=1

Shame Is a component of the Discount - k3b2h3g46c0a
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things. - Schild
Tannhauser
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4436


Reply #136 on: January 12, 2015, 07:40:30 PM

That's some good due diligence there Blizzard.

This game looks...OK.  If they have a class for slow reflex folks and it's f2p then I'll jump in at least to try it out.  But yeah, just not feeling it right now.  I don't see a lot of innovation here.

Kail
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2796


Reply #137 on: January 12, 2015, 08:41:05 PM

Seems Blizzard has run into a snag with the US Patent & Trademark Office.  Someone else has filled a patent application WRT trademarking "Overwatch" in July 2014, several months before Blizzard did their big reveal at BlizzCon in Nov., for "goods and services related to game software and similar".  Both applications have been suspended as of now.  It'll be interesting to see if Blizzard can buy their way out of this, presumably giving the other company a truck full of money, or if they're forced to change the name.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=146785316&postcount=1

If I were in Blizzard's shoes, I'd probably just change the name.  I don't know that the name "Overwatch" is particularly relevant to the game (aside from the fact that it does involve dudes shooting each other).  Blizzard Dota became Blizzard All-Stars became Heroes of the Storm, so I don't see any major problems renaming Overwatch since they're still so early.
Tannhauser
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4436


Reply #138 on: January 12, 2015, 09:26:07 PM

Well, the heroes team is called 'Overwatch' so yeah...kind of relevant.
Paelos
Contributor
Posts: 26814

Error 404: Title not found.


Reply #139 on: January 12, 2015, 09:39:48 PM

Well, the heroes team is called 'Overwatch' so yeah...kind of relevant.

So call them Highwatch or something.

CPA, Sports blogger, Mount and Blade enthusiast
Braves by the Numbers, my sports blog
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 ... 27 Go Up Print 
f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  Gaming  |  Topic: Overwatch  
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.10 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC