DC "Universe" thread.

[NowhereMan]

Well wonder woman will do well if only because it's so iconic and it will bring people out to see it.  Aquaman on the other hand is going to be el failure spectacular.

Aquaman could succeed if they base on the plot on, "That time Batman and I foiled the evil super pirates!" and just make it totally awesome.

Instead it will probably feature a hamfisted environmental message and have Aquaman straight up murder a city through inaction to make a point before finally stopping the villain or something equally grimdark.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Jason Mamoa may also be big and all but can't act for shit and whether the studios believe it or not, the acting does kinda matter in super hero movies.

[Typhon]

   DO NOT WANT

Is it just me, or do the tiara and earrings looks like they were (poorly) photoshopped?

--Dave

Yeah, probably an intentionally bad pic that I fell for.  This one (see below) is probably one that the studio put out, but she's still way to petite for what I think Wonder Woman should look like:

[jgsugden]

Is there any question that was photoshopped poorly?  That is not real.  I do not think there are any red/white/blue WW photos out there, yet.

The good news for me, personally, is that I have such low expectations I would not be shocked to see them exceeded.  The rumored storylines sound very DC - but they are the things about DC that I dislike.

[NowhereMan]

The big question for me, at this stage especially, is that considering the general quality of DC's properties in TV shows how the hell have nearly all the movies been drek? I mean I know that a big part of it is the people making the movies really don't like the properties but there is actual success in a smaller format to point to, how can that not translate into people who actually like and respect the properties getting some traction with the producers for them?

[Lakov_Sanite]

Christopher Nolan.

[Evildrider]

The DC people believe grimdark is the way.  Even if Marvel proves time and time again that it isn't true.

[Lakov_Sanite]

The DC people believe grimdark is the way.  Even if Marvel proves time and time again that it isn't true.

It's like the parade of shitty mmo's that came out not wanting to do what wow did because, reasons.

[eldaec]

The DC movies are terrible because they have terrible directors and script writers. Not because they are dark.

Wonder Woman being too thin is also no big deal.

[Lakov_Sanite]

It's not because they are dark it's because they are needlessly dark.  They have established a tone for their entire comic universe that matches only batman and are trying to force all the other characters into it. 

[jgsugden]

It's not because they are dark it's because they are needlessly dark.  They have established a tone for their entire comic universe that matches only batman and are trying to force all the other characters into it. 

Agreed.

I also still believe that the power level of most DC characters is so extreme and the concepts so aged that they are harder to put on screen without looking ridiculous.  I was impressed in that aspect of MoS - the Superman action was a good translation of the action from the comics.  It was just the casting, writing, direction and gaffing that ruined the movie.

[Ironwood]

Casting ?

[eldaec]

Yeah, I can't really see how you get to complain about casting in MoS, Dark Knight, or even Green Lantern for that matter.

[Threash]

Ryan Reynolds works as Deadpool, but making him green lantern was a bad idea.

[Evildrider]

Ryan Reynolds was fine, you can only do so much with a shitty script.

[Triforcer]

It's not because they are dark it's because they are needlessly dark.  They have established a tone for their entire comic universe that matches only batman and are trying to force all the other characters into it. 

Agreed.

I also still believe that the power level of most DC characters is so extreme and the concepts so aged that they are harder to put on screen without looking ridiculous.  I was impressed in that aspect of MoS - the Superman action was a good translation of the action from the comics.  It was just the casting, writing, direction and gaffing that ruined the movie.

At the risk of provoking a geek-out, are DC characters really that much more powerful (on average) than Marvel characters?  Its hard to think about this "scientifically," but the way you phrase that above makes it sound like this is common knowledge. 

[Sir T]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/markhughes/2014/10/24/warner-bros-sets-sights-on-female-directors-for-wonder-woman/

Warner Bros. Sets Sights On Female Directors For 'Wonder Woman'

Until just a few weeks ago, Warner Bros. was still steadfastly denying they had any firm plans to develop a solo Wonder Woman film. Of course, most of us knew it was going to happen, and some had tentatively confirmed it would likely release sometime between 2016 to 2018 as one of the first solo superhero franchises launched after Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice, in which Gal Gadot portrays the Amazon Princess’ first appearance in live-action feature film history. Then came last week’s official announcement of a long slate of DC Comics adaptations, including the summer release of a stand-alone Wonder Woman movie, and what was obvious for months was now official.

The next worst-kept secret about the studio’s plans was that they looked increasingly likely to seek out a female director to helm the project. The last two days have brought a flurry of speculation, rumors, and reports that Warner will indeed hire a female filmmaker for Wonder Woman, with one particular director being easily the most mentioned — by fans or the press — whenever such discussions arise.

Kathryn Bigelow has long been a fan-favorite to take on any Wonder Woman production, and no doubt Warner has kept her in mind and would be quite happy to have Bigelow aboard. She can create remarkable action sequences that retain sense of character and dramatic storytelling, and importantly she could bring a heightened realism to the proceedings that might help keep it grounded despite whatever fantasy elements exist.

From a box office standpoint, Bigelow’s biggest success so far has come from her early film Point Break ($83 million) and her most recent picture, Zero Dark Thirty ($132 million). In between, she’s had modest success and a few low performers. However, her Oscar win for Best Director for The Hurt Locker and the back-to-back critical acclaim and global receipts for that film and Zero Dark Thirty have definitely significantly raised her profile as a top filmmaker. Putting her name and reputation with a Wonder Woman project seems like a clear home run.

That said, Bigelow is probably an unlikely get for the studio. She hasn’t made a fantasy/sci-fi leaning picture in nearly 20 years. Her last four feature films over two decades – The Weight of Water, K-19: The Widowmaker, The Hurt Locker, and Zero Dark Thirty – have all been inspired to varying degrees by actual events or reflecting real circumstances based on lots of real-life research. The next film on her agenda is adapting True American: Murder & Mercy in Texas, a true story. And Bigelow certainly seems to be quite happy with her partners in cinema these days, so she might be wary of jumping ship for another set of collaborators and producers

[jgsugden]

...

At the risk of provoking a geek-out, are DC characters really that much more powerful (on average) than Marvel characters?  Its hard to think about this "scientifically," but the way you phrase that above makes it sound like this is common knowledge. 

Yes.  You can ask Google or more information, or review the posts on this thread that beat that horse to death.

[Lakov_Sanite]

They are more powerful in the comics but they don't really HAVE to be.  You can easily tone down power levels to fit better in a live action movie as simply as the green lantern can do anything but his power supply isnt nearly as infinite as it is in the comics so the bigger thing he does, the faster its gone.

Saying DC characters are gods on earth is true in the comics but that's the EASIEST fix for translating to movies if you have half a brain and an imagination.

[Raguel]

At the risk of provoking a geek-out, are DC characters really that much more powerful (on average) than Marvel characters?  Its hard to think about this "scientifically," but the way you phrase that above makes it sound like this is common knowledge.  

IMO it's an outdated Silver Age perspective (approx. the 60s to mid 70s).  Take Flash and Quicksilver as examples. Flash is at least as fast as light speed, could travel back in time or through dimensions and, back in the Silver Age, while moving he was about as strong as Superman. Quicksilver I'd say was faster than sound, but not much faster. Nowadays Quicksilver is as fast as the writer wants him to be. I was stunned to see in X-Factor Quicksilver was basically holding a conversation with Havok in one location while his X-Factor teammates thought he was still in their building.

[Fordel]

Flight, Invulnerability and Super-strength are like, a baseline for most DC heroes. Then they'll usually have extra powers on top of those.

Anyone one of those would be considered a power in it's own right on most Marvel heroes. You need like, the entire classic X-men team to equal one Superman and DC has like half a dozen of them at any given point.


The one exception would be Marvel's characters with the power bullshit. Scarlet Witch for example, whose powers are literally whatever the plot demands. Sometimes she can rewrite reality itself, changing people, places, genetics, history, everything, on a global scale. Other times she can't even unlock a door with her powers.


It's like Lakov said though, it's the easiest bit to actually change. The DCAU basically did it all the time, only really bringing characters up to their "true" power levels for dramatic effect in the story. Usually with some great consequence to the character.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53OyPYa7SEI

[Khaldun]

Current rumor, by the way, is that Green Lantern shows up only partway through the Justice League follow-up to Batman v Superman, and as a--get this, it will surprise you--a "dark and gritty" version who is an older Hal Jordan who has survived the destruction of Oa as the last of his kind.

I could *almost* see that working if it turns out that what destroyed Oa was Darkseid--e.g., GL shows up frantic and crazed about five minutes before Apokalips parademons start popping out of boom tubes all over Earth. Maybe if he gets killed right after that, even.

But geezus, odds of these guys getting any of this right are pretty low. The adolescent obsession with grimdarkery being grafted onto a group of characters who are normally much lighter and sunnier than their Marvel counterparts is just sort of queasy, as demonstrated amply by most of the "New 52" versions of the characters.

[DraconianOne]

As I cba to find the other thread, this will do.

Aquaman - what happens when Dothraki overcome their fear of the sea and start riding seahorses:

[Lakov_Sanite]

Game of Zombie thrones the barbarian.....with fish.

[HaemishM]

Perfect choice and perfect look for the character. Looks a helluva lot better than the Wonder Woman.

[jgsugden]

I still think this casting is worse than Affleck as Duckman Batman.

Momoa has never impressed me.  He was fine in GoT, but I think they could have done better.  His Conan was not impressive.  He was one of the worst elements of Stargate Atlantis - which is really a damning statement.   Yeah, that is a fine look for Momoa as Aquaman, but man I wish they'd gone another way.

The ideal choice IMHO is obviously unavailable: Chris Helmsworth.  Regardless, I'd rather have seen Sean Bean, Liam Helmsworth,  Charlie Hunnam, Josh Holloway, Alexander Skarsgård, Chris Pine, or a few dozen other guys.  Some of those guys would need to bulk up, but if Evans can become Cap, I don't think we need to worry about that issue. They'd all bring different things to the character, obviously, too. 

[HaemishM]

All your choices are about as white bread as they come. I like that they cast a Pacific Islander in the role, as I think it fits what Aquaman should be better.

Yes, I realize Aquaman might as well have been called White Fish in the comics.

[jgsugden]

There are ways to be diverse without changing the core elements of a character.  I favor evolution of stories and passing of the torch to changing the essence of a character.  So, yeah, Arthur Curry should be Whitebread.

[HaemishM]

Nothing about Aquaman's origin suggests he HAS to be white.

[Khaldun]

Seriously. In fact, quite the opposite, especially the newer stuff that Peter David added.

There is absolutely no reason for that character to have to be a blond white guy except that he was a blond white guy in an era when virtually all comic-book characters were white people.

Occasionally there's a character who has a really specific origin that places them in a very specific social or historical setting. Jason Blood/the Demon probably needs to be a white dude because he's supposed to have been in Arthur's Camelot. But this is really very rare.

In the case of Aquaman, it's almost completely opposite--the guy actually OUGHT to be a Pacific Islander, the most maritime-oriented human culture in history. Or maybe a Phoencian/Mediterranean type if you want to go with that origin of Atlantis.

[jgsugden]

Nothing about Aquaman's origin suggests he HAS to be white.

I agree with that for the most part.  There are few stories that I know of for Aquaman that have an integral element based upon him being whiter than an ocra's belly.  Had Curry's mother rolled up on the shores of Hawaii rather than Florida, Aquaman might have looked a lot like Momoa and they could have told the same stories for the most part (not that there was any chance of that in the era that Aquaman was designed).  However, that isn't Arthur Curry of DC lore.  It isn't the Aquaman from the comics.  If they're adapting that character, they should make that character.  This isn't a substitution of John Stewart for Hal Jordan.  That is fine with me.  I want them to evolve the story.  Don't retcon it.  

I just find the retconning to be offensive.  It feels like someone is saying, "Your culture/gender/preference/eye color is incapable of generating an intriguing character by itself, so we'll take a white man and morph it to give you a chance."  That is not the only way to look at it, but I see that element every time a switch like this takes place.  That bugs me.  I know a lot of people don't see that, but I do.

Regardless, this is far more about my objection to Momoa as an actor.  I think all of the actors I named would be good fits for Arthur Curry stories I've read or seen because they embody the character better.

[Fordel]

Dude was great in Atlantis, in fact him joining is when the show started to not suck!

[HaemishM]

 However, that isn't Arthur Curry of DC lore.  It isn't the Aquaman from the comics.

You're right. It's the movie Aquaman. You should go ahead and remove all thoughts that this will be the Aquaman from the comics, because it won't be. I'd think Superman killing Zod at the end of Man of Steel would have clued you in to that.

FWIW, Arrow is not the Green Arrow from the comics, nor is Flash the Barry Allen from the comics. Barry Allen isn't even blonde! It's an adaptation. As long as the adaptation doesn't stray too far from the core elements (and Aquaman being a white kid from Florida isn't even remotely a core element), it should be fine. It's not like they are trying to turn him into a kid from the ghettos of Chicago.

[MediumHigh]

Hmmm.... no? Most people don't care about Aquaman enough to feel any attachments to him not being blond or white. And the few people that do just want him to be bad ass enough to cut off his own hand to save his son. Cause fuck it king of the seven motherfucking seas. And it really doesn't matter if he looks like an all american quarterback in the 50s or Somoan  because his "race" is Atlantean. I.E fictional race of pre-cave man humans that super-evolved to live under fucking water. His skin color should be grey, he should be hairless and partially blind. Of all the horrid examples of super heroes not being their origins because fuck it we need to pander for sales instead of simply writing better comics, this isn't it. I'll be more worried that a Superman vs Batman movie has Wonder Woman and Aquaman just showing up cause might as well call this justice league origins (which is a baaaaaaaaaaaad idea).

[jgsugden]

Differing opinions... but token changes bug me.