DC "Universe" thread.

[MediumHigh]

Differing opinions... but token changes bug me. 

yeah I dropped ultimate spiderman, Aquaman isn't spiderman...

[DraconianOne]

As someone who had no idea who Arthur Curry was until 5 minute ago when I googled it to find out what the fuck you guys were talking about, this whole conversation is hysterical.

And very revealing.

 

[Lantyssa]

I'm very disappointed that Aquaman doesn't have orange scales or green leggings and fins on his calves.

Next you're going to tell me they don't plan on using the Wonder Twins for any of the DC movies.

[jgsugden]

...Next you're going to tell me they don't plan on using the Wonder Twins for any of the DC movies.

No, Wonder Woman is in the next movie...

[Evildrider]

Next you're going to tell me they don't plan on using the Wonder Twins for any of the DC movies.

They are probably concerned with having Gleek be too OP.

[Khaldun]

Imma just gonna leave this here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iQ_SuDLJvI

[MahrinSkel]

This is Aquaman we're talking about here. The guy for who they have always had to invent excuses why Superman, or Batman, or Wonder Woman, or the Justice League janitor was too busy to deal with things so he had an excuse to exist. His race is the *least* of things they need to change for him not to be a joke. Seriously, it's like the stupidest thing to get worked up over compared to "Why did they write him into the story to begin with?"

--Dave

[jgsugden]

Differing opinions... but token changes bug me. 

yeah I dropped ultimate spiderman, Aquaman isn't spiderman...

Miles Morales would be an example of something I do not really object to seeing: A new character taking a name and a role previously occupied by another character.  When it gets too heavy handed it really falls more in the camp of token changes, but I didn't feel Morales hit that zone. 

Of course, I should probably just get over it because people might characterize Sam Jackson as Fury as the result of token changes, and there is no room to criticize anything that gives us more SLJ.

I'll just keep my focus on Momoa being a bad actor.

[Evildrider]

Who cares really?  It's fucking Aquaman. 

[Merusk]

Remember when I said "until they take themselves seriously" in the Marvel thread?  This sort of dissection is what I was talking about.

[Sir T]

Aquaman was comic relief in the "batman the brave and the bold" ffs.

[Khaldun]

I'm not quite sure why Aquaman = stupid joke settled in as hard as it did. Character was a perfectly ho-hum Silver Age guy, no more ridiculous than Hawkman, which is to say somewhat ridiculous. I think the main thing that underwater guys run into as a problem is when they're saddled with "will die if out of water for a while" weaknesses, or if there are strongmen characters like Superman who can move through water just as well as the underwater guy so who needs the underwater guy. That's Aquaman's problem; Namor over at Marvel never had to deal with an above-water rival who could operate just as well below the sea.

So the silliness of Aquaman mostly came because his writers made him a specialist who could only deal really well with stuff that was underwater and he worked with guys who could do that as well as he could.

But after the Silver Age, some reasonably decent work was done to give him more a personality and more of a distinctive mythos--the problem there was that he was also always bland compared to Namor. Including just being a generic blond white guy.

So considering all that, if you're going to put him in ANYTHING, you have to fiddle with him. In Batman Brave and the Bold that means making him silly fun. In grimdark Zack Snyder that means making him a Pacific Islander. These moves all make good sense. I cannot imagine anyone sensibly being attached to generic blond white Silver Age Aquaman who wears orange fish scales and dies an hour after he's out of water.

[Tannhauser]

I'd hate to have to write this movie and put Aquaman in somehow.  Especially in this grimngritty world.  I'd imagine they'll make him a generic strong guy and then there's THAT ONE SCENE that makes him bad-ass, when he releases the kraken or some shit.

As someone upthread said, we didn't have to him.  What about Martian Manhunter?  He's another strong guy, but has a couple of abilities that would complement the team.  He and Bats could talk strategy and he can do the shapechangey stuff to infiltrate the enemy base and use telepathy, etc.  I guess MM is too hard for audience to understand?

I'm not saying it can't be done, but the writers will really have their hands full making Aquaman an equal member of the team.  And I haven't seen good writing from the DC Universe yet.

[Khaldun]

I think it comes down to "almost everybody has heard the name Aquaman and knows he's in the Justice League; the Martian Manhunter is much more obscure in relative terms and requires much more backstory/setup".

I think you can pretty much bet that Snyder's Aquaman will be played like he's Khal Drogo of the Seas--probably ride a whale, fuck shit up with a trident, makes tidal waves, pours molten metal over the Joker's head, and so on.

[HaemishM]

I would imagine they'll follow the Peter David Aquaman characterization - the one who got his fucking hand chewed off by piranha and replaced with a hook. He was a seriously pissed off underwater king with a chip on his shoulder.

[Johny Cee]

I would imagine they'll follow the Peter David Aquaman characterization - the one who got his fucking hand chewed off by piranha and replaced with a hook. He was a seriously pissed off underwater king with a chip on his shoulder.

I think that was the version they went with in Justice League Unlimited.  Gave us this quote:

Dr. Fate: Solomon Grundy's grave is empty.
Aquaman: Tell me where to find those responsible. Then dig more graves.

[eldaec]

I think it comes down to "almost everybody has heard the name Aquaman and knows he's in the Justice League; the Martian Manhunter is much more obscure in relative terms and requires much more backstory/setup"

Aquaman probably has half decent name recognition, but I'm not sure if all that many normal people even know what a justice league is.

[Fordel]

How many people watched JLU ?

[jgsugden]

...
Aquaman probably has half decent name recognition, but I'm not sure if all that many normal people even know what a justice league is.

The percentage of Americans that do not know that Aquaman is part of the same 'team' as Superman, Batman and Wonderwoman is likely very small - and the percentage of people that are going to choose to see the film (as opposed to the ones that refuse to see it or get dragged to it) that do not know is a fraction of that percentage. They may not have known the name "Justice League", but if you asked people to name the heroes on Superman's team, a lot of people would get to Aquaman before running out of names (although there are a lot that would put Marvel heroes on the list, too).

[eldaec]

I doubt a majority of Americans even know that there is a team.

[Khaldun]

I think a lot of people over 40 remember the Super Friends, who also called themselves The Justice League in the show.

In fact, I'd wager that more people for that reason would vaguely remember Apache Chief more than the Martian Manhunter.

[eldaec]

How many people watched JLU ?

Google told me Neilsen said 500k. But I guess that will have been ticking up on repeats since then.

[Maven]

So a range of one in 350 to 700 people in America, assuming 500k is the min and we're generous and say it is twice that.

[jgsugden]

If you're assuming that the only people that know what the Justice League are would be the people that watched JLU, you're missing how broad of an exposure there is. 

There are so many references to DC heroes and the justice league in TV, books, video games, movies, and other pop culture conduits...  It is a concept that dates back to 1940.  It has filtered into the American consciousness through countless channels since before any of us reading this thread were born.

I'm not saying there are not people that will ask if Spider-man will be in the Justice League movie.  There are a lot of people that only have a very superficial knowledge of what the Justice League is ... but there are very few that do not have that superficial knowledge.

[Lantyssa]

Objection, your honor--supposition.

[sickrubik]

Aquaman was an entire long running plot point on Entourage, as well.

i am very ashamed that I know that.

[Ironwood]

Objection, your honor--supposition.

Sustained.


I'm going on a ruling of ipso facto jgsugden.

[eldaec]

I'd be happy to stipulate that JLU was as watched by only 10% of people who have a clue what Justice League is.

The thing about all those "conduits" is that you look down them and we're the people at the end of basically all of them.

[Lakov_Sanite]

I'd be happy to stipulate that JLU was as watched by only 10% of people who have a clue what Justice League is.

The thing about all those "conduits" is that you look down them and we're the people at the end of basically all of them.

What a sad commentary on our lives.

[Merusk]

This is one occasion where I'll side with jgu.  Even among my non geek friends there is some knowledge of Aquaman and his being part of the Justice League.  As mentioned this is in no small part to The Superfriends in the 70s.

They may not think about it or know that he has some weird secret identity, but knowing he's a character is a low enough bar to include him.

Ain't nobody outside of comics geeks and JLU watchers who know who the hell Martian Manhunter is.  Hell when I first saw JLU I wondered who the green guy was and I'm the third biggest geek I know IRL.  

I'd be happy to stipulate that JLU was as watched by only 10% of people who have a clue what Justice League is.

The thing about all those "conduits" is that you look down them and we're the people at the end of basically all of them.

What a sad commentary on our lives.

Why is it sad?  Because filling your head with sports, celebrity and pop trivia is somehow a more noble pursuit?  It just because it's more socially accepted?

[HaemishM]

Are we really arguing that people don't know who fucking Aquaman is? Really? Or that he has more or less name recognition than Martian Manhunter?

Neither of these things should be questioned by any intelligent person on this board.

[jgsugden]

We'll argue about anything.

No we won't, we'll only argue with good reason.

- and Martian Manhunter took a large bump up in name recognition when he was on Smallville.  Still on the obscure side, but prior to Thor being released, I'd bet more people knew about Martian Manhunter than Hawkeye.

[DraconianOne]

- and Martian Manhunter took a large bump up in name recognition when he was on Smallville. 

You're wrong but thanks for playing.

[HaemishM]

I'd bet more people knew about Martian Manhunter than Hawkeye.

 

[Khaldun]

I'm afraid I have to second that.

Smallville? Seriously? By that logic the whole country knows who Dr. Fate is now.