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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  Gaming  |  Topic: Heroes of the Storm [a.k.a Blizzard DoTA] 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: Heroes of the Storm [a.k.a Blizzard DoTA]  (Read 139344 times)
Nebu
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Reply #315 on: January 22, 2015, 10:57:21 AM

My gold income would probably be a lot higher if I actively tried to finish those.

It's an extra 200-800 gold per day.  If you play every 3rd day, you can do the dailies for the last 3 days and many overlap.  The game really rewards casual play in this way.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Malakili
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Reply #316 on: January 22, 2015, 11:10:36 AM

The thing is, I don't want those random daily quests to determine how or what I play.  If I want to play Hero X, and the daily quest doesn't reward me for playing Hero X, I'm just not doing the daily.  I've had the same 3 dailies in my log for over a month now.
Merusk
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Reply #317 on: January 22, 2015, 11:14:06 AM

So spend cash or stop playing?

"Gold is too slow to buy heroes, but I don't want to do the method to obtain gold. Just give me what I want."
 Ohhhhh, I see.

Not the game for you.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
Malakili
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Reply #318 on: January 22, 2015, 11:17:01 AM


Not the game for you.

No shit.  That's been the point all along.  Despite the fact that the game does a number of things well and the gameplay has gone from bland to kind of fun over the course of 2014, the pricing model makes the game not really for me.

That's why some of us want the DOTA model.  If I could play all the heroes, I'd probably get into the game and buy a skin or two here or there, the way I did in that game.  With this model they pretty much ensure that I will never get invested enough to want to give them money. 
Paelos
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Reply #319 on: January 22, 2015, 11:27:14 AM

If there's one thing ATVI does well, it's establish cash models to suck in people.

CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #320 on: January 22, 2015, 01:28:03 PM

  With this model they pretty much ensure that I will never get invested enough to want to give them money. 

That sounds like a shit way for a company to stay in business if you ask me.

~a horrific, dark simulacrum that glares balefully at us, with evil intent.
pxib
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Reply #321 on: January 22, 2015, 01:38:57 PM

...part of the (maybe peverse) fun of f2p games is having a goal, saving up for it, and getting it.   
I think it's important to distinguish between "the thing that keeps people playing the game every day" and "fun". They can absolutely be related, but many a Skinner box is really just a Skinner box.

if at last you do succeed, never try again
Paelos
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Reply #322 on: January 22, 2015, 01:52:30 PM

I think there's plenty of people that equate fun with having things to do in the game daily.

CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
Malakili
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Reply #323 on: January 22, 2015, 01:59:53 PM

I think there's plenty of people that equate fun with having things to do in the game daily.

But... playing the game is the thing to do.  Having to play 2 Warcraft Heroes to earn 300 gold in the game is a homework assignment.
Nebu
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Reply #324 on: January 22, 2015, 02:02:31 PM

But... playing the game is the thing to do.  Having to play 2 Warcraft Heroes to earn 300 gold in the game is a homework assignment.

I see it as an opportunity to try new heroes.  Potato Potah-to.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Rendakor
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Reply #325 on: January 22, 2015, 02:06:16 PM

If you want to try new heroes, just...try new heroes?

"i can't be a star citizen. they won't even give me a star green card"
Paelos
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Reply #326 on: January 22, 2015, 02:11:59 PM

I like unlocking things. When I run out of things to unlock I'm going to get bored.

I think playing on the impatience of people is a fine strategy for money, so long as the hill isn't too steep. Where that line falls is debatable.

CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
Nebu
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Reply #327 on: January 22, 2015, 02:16:39 PM

If you want to try new heroes, just...try new heroes?

We don't have to like the same things.

I like the incentive to play heroes I may have set aside.  Sometimes I forget that I liked them.  Other times I realize that my playstyle has changed and they're a better fit.  I also like getting extra gold to buy more heroes.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Malakili
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Reply #328 on: January 22, 2015, 02:38:00 PM

We don't have to like the same things, I'm just saying that the things you guys like, and the developers are now embracing, are ruining gaming (for me).  why so serious?
Tannhauser
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Reply #329 on: January 22, 2015, 02:41:26 PM

So if I play this without friends I get randomly assigned 1 or 2 other folks?  No solo play correct?
Malakili
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Reply #330 on: January 22, 2015, 02:44:47 PM

So if I play this without friends I get randomly assigned 1 or 2 other folks?  No solo play correct?

You can play practice mode, which gives you AI allies and opponents.
Rendakor
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Reply #331 on: January 22, 2015, 02:50:05 PM

I like unlocking things. When I run out of things to unlock I'm going to get bored.

I think playing on the impatience of people is a fine strategy for money, so long as the hill isn't too steep. Where that line falls is debatable.
The way SMITE handles it is a nice compromise between DOTA2 and LoL/HotS; you can grind with in-game currency to unlock heroes, pay MTX for individuals, or a one time fee of $30 for all heroes current and future.

"i can't be a star citizen. they won't even give me a star green card"
Trippy
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Reply #332 on: January 22, 2015, 02:50:24 PM

So if I play this without friends I get randomly assigned 1 or 2 other folks?  No solo play correct?
You can play practice mode, which gives you AI allies and opponents.
There's also co-op, i.e. human allies vs AI opponents.
Kail
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Reply #333 on: January 22, 2015, 03:15:07 PM

The gold income is frustratingly low. If you only do your daily quests and win half the time, you'll earn an average of 250 gold a day.  That gets you the cheapest 2000 gold heroes at a rate of just under one a week, which seems reasonable, but it would take a month to get a 7000 gold hero and even longer for the more expensive tiers. 

That seems low to me.  I spent all my gold about a week ago and am already back up to 4k without any level 5 bonus or anything.

Malakili
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Reply #334 on: January 22, 2015, 03:29:25 PM

or a one time fee of $30 for all heroes current and future.

See, this I can get behind.  I could even live with paying a bit more than that for something like Heroes if it was a one off.  Then I can just immediately stop caring about the economics of the game and just play.
Rendakor
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Reply #335 on: January 22, 2015, 03:34:12 PM

Right. I don't mind paying for content, but I detest MTX and don't really like grind-to-unlock f2p shit either. Let me pay a box price or the equivalent, and keep the rest for cosmetics.

"i can't be a star citizen. they won't even give me a star green card"
Nebu
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Reply #336 on: January 22, 2015, 03:53:32 PM

The way SMITE handles it is a nice compromise between DOTA2 and LoL/HotS; you can grind with in-game currency to unlock heroes, pay MTX for individuals, or a one time fee of $30 for all heroes current and future.

I'd love that system.  Sadly, Blizzard likes money... A LOT.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Trippy
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Reply #337 on: January 22, 2015, 05:10:10 PM

Yes but it used to not be this way. Before I felt like Blizzard's attitude towards money was "if we build great games the money will come" -- and it did. However now that the golden egg laying goose is dying (aka WoW) and their replacement goose cancelled, I feel like they are in panic mode, with Storm's store and pricing structure a reflection of that.

As one example of how I feel Blizzard has lost it's way is with this Founder's pack they are promoting, which is just the Battle Bundle they've had in the store for a few months now. At the bottom of the Founder's Pack Web page they state:
Quote
The Founder’s Pack price is not reduced if you already own items in the Founder’s Pack.
Even though the 3 heroes in the pack have been in many other bundles before this (which often also confusingly overlap with other bundles) and many if not most players already have at least one of these 3 heroes, if you want to get the effectively exclusive Golden cyber wolf mount (which is just a palette swap and not even a new model) you have to essentially rebuy those heroes (and skins if you have those too).

Gazillion does a similar thing with some of the stuff they sell for Marvel Heroes 2015 but they are a small developer and I'm willing to cut them some slack so that sort of thing bothers me less than when a company like Blizzard does this sort of thing.

Now contrast this with Hi-Rez Studios, another small developer and the makers of SMITE. With their above mentioned Ultimate God pack*, if you already own some of the gods when you buy the pack, you get a refund in favor (the "soft" currency of the game). So they don't try to screw you over like what Blizzard is doing.

* Which in my opinion is actually way too cheap. Not only is the price per god too low at less than $1 per god but it includes all future gods as well. But I understand they are against some stiff competition and are trying to build up a critical base of players so that the game can thrive.


Paelos
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Reply #338 on: January 22, 2015, 07:53:40 PM

The way SMITE handles it is a nice compromise between DOTA2 and LoL/HotS; you can grind with in-game currency to unlock heroes, pay MTX for individuals, or a one time fee of $30 for all heroes current and future.

I'd love that system.  Sadly, Blizzard likes money... A LOT.

They need to, because their spigots are starting to turn off if they don't come up with ways to keep the recurring income rolling in.

CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
kaid
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Reply #339 on: January 23, 2015, 09:42:58 AM

So if I play this without friends I get randomly assigned 1 or 2 other folks?  No solo play correct?
You can play practice mode, which gives you AI allies and opponents.
There's also co-op, i.e. human allies vs AI opponents.


This is pretty much what I have been doing a bunch of. It lets you get a feel for how the maps play pretty well and unlock your extra heroics/talents without a lot of team drama of NOOB why U no max level???!!!!!
Ginaz
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Reply #340 on: January 25, 2015, 03:45:39 AM

Hey!  Do YOU want to play Heroes of the Storm, but haven't recieved a beta invite yet?  How do you feel about paying $40 to beta test a game that will be free to play when it launches?  Then Blizzard has the solution for you!

In other news, they just hit closed beta last week and introduced ranked play on the same day they released Thrall.  Those of you with weak hearts may want to sit down for this shocking news, but he's considered kind of OP.

Yeah this is a dumb waste of money.

It is, esp. if you're already in the alpha/beta/whatever its called.  There's another pack sold in game thats on sale now for the same price and you get way more heroes (8), skins (4) and mounts (2).  I suppose the draw of the founder's pack is the beta access for those who don't have it but if you're already playing its not worth it as there's better options...like not playing. awesome, for real
Kail
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Reply #341 on: January 25, 2015, 02:06:14 PM

Yeah this is a dumb waste of money.

It is, esp. if you're already in the alpha/beta/whatever its called.  There's another pack sold in game thats on sale now for the same price and you get way more heroes (8), skins (4) and mounts (2).  I suppose the draw of the founder's pack is the beta access for those who don't have it but if you're already playing its not worth it as there's better options...like not playing. awesome, for real

Yeah, there's three main bundles in the game right now.  One is $40 for like 8 heroes, 4 skins, 2 mounts.  One is like $5 for three heroes and one mount.  One is like $40 for three heroes, three skins, and one mount.  And the one which they chose to staple to their buy in package is obviously the most expensive, worst deal in the game.  And by the way, Raynor is in both of the three hero packs, and you don't get any kind of discount if you buy him twice.

On the up side, they have started giving away keys.  If people are interested but haven't gained access, there's a bunch more sites running contests and giveaways for keys and things.  Like half the channels on Twitch are giving away keys now, for example.

Setanta
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Reply #342 on: January 25, 2015, 03:30:23 PM

Thrall is more than slightly OP... the guy just keeps on swinging and hitting hard.

Ironic that he has 2H windfury - time for a nerf

"No man is an island. But if you strap a bunch of dead guys together it makes a damn fine raft."
Nebu
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Reply #343 on: January 25, 2015, 05:05:37 PM

Thrall is more than slightly OP... the guy just keeps on swinging and hitting hard.

I don't find this to be the case when I play against Thrall in quick matches.  He really doesn't concern me, especially when I play a hero with a stun.  

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Kail
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Reply #344 on: January 25, 2015, 07:25:05 PM

He strikes me as kind of similar to Illidan, where in certain situations, as long as he can keep attacking, you just can't deal with him.  Like, if you're 1v1 in the middle of the forest, he's going to kill you and walk away with more HP than he had going in.  But if you can stop him from attacking he's in serious trouble, and with no gap closer or escape his only way to engage in a teamfight is to just walk up.
Setanta
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Reply #345 on: January 25, 2015, 09:04:10 PM

Agreed - sadly I had a Jaina run up to me to attack, WF -> Wolves -> lightning and chased her down. Too stupid to attack at range which I'm seeing a lot of 1v1. Group it's a run in and out deal because if you stand still you are toast.

"No man is an island. But if you strap a bunch of dead guys together it makes a damn fine raft."
Sophismata
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Reply #346 on: January 26, 2015, 07:28:58 PM

I see a lot of complaining about Thrall, but very little complaining about Tychus. Thrall has the issues mentioned above - in particular he has trouble escaping and chasing due to not having a gap closer.

Tychus, on the other hand, is an amazingly well-rounded assassin hero with an excellent toolkit, great talents and fantastic stats (damage/health).

As mentioned above, standing still in this game will toast you. Tychus can deal out excellent single target and moderate AoE damage while remaining fully mobile and having access to all his abilities and talents. Furthermore, he does good single target damage without using Overkill and when utilising his ult can once again deal out significant single target damage at considerable range (and moderate AoE).

In addition, he has access to relentless (50% reduction in disable duration), first aid (33% HoT) and stone skin (33% shield), giving him fantastic survivability - far beyond that of any other assassin except Zeratul.

Furthermore, he has (arguably) the best creep clear in the game, able to wipe out any number of minions in a large AoE with a single, low-cooldown ability. Furthermore, that ability serves as an interrupt when used in teamfights, and is able to cancel all channeled abilities including heroics.

Finally, he has a gap closer / escape ability in the form of a dash, that conveniently also sets his basic attack speed to 4 attacks/second upon use (his damage is much lower though to account for his fast attack speed).

Oh, and his ult gives him a large temporary health boost, has excellent range and extremely high damage (mentioned above).


Tychus is the whole package.  Heart


Cons? He only has one ult. I've never even chosen the second one.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2015, 07:30:36 PM by Sophismata »

"You finally did it, you magnificent bastards. You went so nerd that even I don't know WTF you're talking about anymore. I salute you." - WindupAtheist
Nebu
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Reply #347 on: January 26, 2015, 10:25:28 PM

The three broken heroes that I see are: Tychus, Stitches, and Brightwing.

Stitches is a great tank with decent damage.  Better damage than about any other warrior hero with tank hp.  Hit ult removes a player from a team fight.

Brightwing has great sustain, mobility, and polymorph.  With rewind, she can essentially remove two players from a team fight for a couple seconds. 

Stitches + Brightwing together = win most of the time.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Sophismata
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Reply #348 on: January 27, 2015, 01:21:10 AM

Stitches is a great tank with decent damage.  Better damage than about any other warrior hero with tank hp.  Hit ult removes a player from a team fight.

Brightwing has great sustain, mobility, and polymorph.  With rewind, she can essentially remove two players from a team fight for a couple seconds.

To my mind, the best trait Stiches possess is his ability to change enemy positioning and heavy penalise enemy mistakes via his pudge hook. Brightwing has global presence via her teleport.

I think those two facts are major contributing factors to those hero's top tier status. Global presence is what keeps Falstad viable, as well.

That's in addition to the other points you've mentioned. Still, I rarely here anyone complain about brightwing or tychus - but often about nova, or thrall.

Edit:
Tonight's 11pm B.Net service window reminds me why I quit playing WoW. I work with enterprise services that have tens of millions of users, yet no downtime. Why does battle.net get taken offline so often?
« Last Edit: January 27, 2015, 01:25:04 AM by Sophismata »

"You finally did it, you magnificent bastards. You went so nerd that even I don't know WTF you're talking about anymore. I salute you." - WindupAtheist
Nebu
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Reply #349 on: January 27, 2015, 08:01:30 AM

I think those two facts are major contributing factors to those hero's top tier status. Global presence is what keeps Falstad viable, as well.

Falstad, in the hands of a good player, is frightening.  Mobility and some of the best dps burst in game.  You just need to pull off his combo when traited properly and he can 100-0 anything but a tank. 

People that complain about Nova haven't figured out the game flow yet.  You don't travel alone on the map unless your a hero with an escape.  I play Tassadar as my main primarily because he's the counter to stealth.  Great visibility and the bubble for protection.   

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
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