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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  PC/Console Gaming  |  Topic: Heroes of the Storm [a.k.a Blizzard DoTA] 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: Heroes of the Storm [a.k.a Blizzard DoTA]  (Read 38565 times)
K9
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on: November 08, 2013, 06:45:20 PM

Because having just one game go by the acronym HotS didn't feel confusing enough.

Cinematic Trailer

Gameplay Trailer

If it's F2P I'll definitely give it a look; that said I do wonder how well they'll be able to peel players from DOTA2 and LoL.

I love the smell of facepalm in the morning
Maledict
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Reply #1 on: November 10, 2013, 04:12:18 AM

I really like what they're doing with it. It's not just a Dota clone, they have made massive changes to the gameplay to make it more accessible and faster.

I personally cannot get into LoL or Dota2 simply because of the insane learning curve and playtime requirements. There are too many games around to spend that much time on one game, and it didn't give up raiding to replace it with another single game. So what I've heard so far about blizzards game sounds a lot better for noobs like myself!
jakonovski
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Reply #2 on: November 10, 2013, 04:42:10 AM

Looks like a Dota to me. The characters could be a real strength if they focused on their interactions.

edit: here's an RPS article that sheds some light on how it actually is, http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/11/10/impressions-heroes-of-the-storm-steals-blizzcon/
« Last Edit: November 10, 2013, 05:11:06 AM by jakonovski »
Malakili
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Reply #3 on: November 10, 2013, 08:00:12 AM

After playing DOTA where I can play all the heroes all the time without spending a dime and don't have to level up my account, a LoL-style model is a big turn off for me.  The gameplay looks decent, but I'm pretty much over the idea of having to unlock heroes and level up before I can get to the "real" game.
Draegan
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Reply #4 on: November 10, 2013, 11:02:09 AM

The game is a super casual MOBA that looks like a fun every once in a while type of game. You can't buy items, you share xp, and there is no laning phase.

Essentially, as a good player you can't carry your team. Bad players bring down teams instead of good players balancing out bad players. It's a giant meh to me. Everything is normalized.
Threash
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Reply #5 on: November 10, 2013, 11:11:57 AM

I think Blizzard is about to learn the WoW lesson, LoL was at the right place at the right time with a really good game and even if you match the good game part you are not going to duplicate their success.

I am the .00000001428%
Fordel
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Reply #6 on: November 10, 2013, 11:52:04 AM

The shit's I don't give about Blizzard's fake dota. I might've given a shit about the characters before Metzen went full Metzen on everything.

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Pezzle
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Reply #7 on: November 10, 2013, 11:58:23 AM

Air guitar to generic metal!

Does anyone care about Blizzard..

Anymore?!
Samprimary
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Reply #8 on: November 10, 2013, 12:25:06 PM

I was going to say that once upon a time I would have been excited about this because blizzard had a solid rep for innovating, but that has recently had its spine broken real hard, and that at this point I expected that there were three possible outcomes: it would either be a really good innovation added to the MOBA genre, or it would be passable, or it would be really bad.

Then I thought about that and I realized that I had just crafted the world's stupidest post ever. "this game might be good! or average. or bad."

so i never made this post.
Pennilenko
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Reply #9 on: November 10, 2013, 01:57:46 PM

I was going to say that once upon a time I would have been excited about this because blizzard had a solid rep for innovating, but that has recently had its spine broken real hard, and that at this point I expected that there were three possible outcomes: it would either be a really good innovation added to the MOBA genre, or it would be passable, or it would be really bad.

Then I thought about that and I realized that I had just crafted the world's stupidest post ever. "this game might be good! or average. or bad."

so i never made this post.
Head scratch

"See?  All of you are unique.  And special.  Like fucking snowflakes."  -- Signe
Maledict
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Reply #10 on: November 10, 2013, 02:59:47 PM

Personally, I don't think this will be that much of a success, nor will it really compete with LoL or dota2.

But I have to say a lot of the comments I'm reading on the web really remind me of what MMO players were saying about WoW before it was released...
Simond
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Reply #11 on: November 10, 2013, 03:08:52 PM

Air guitar to generic metal!

Does anyone care about Blizzard..

Anymore?!
Clearly you cared enough to post.  Ohhhhh, I see.

"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
Samprimary
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Reply #12 on: November 10, 2013, 03:11:15 PM

I was going to say that once upon a time I would have been excited about this because blizzard had a solid rep for innovating, but that has recently had its spine broken real hard, and that at this point I expected that there were three possible outcomes: it would either be a really good innovation added to the MOBA genre, or it would be passable, or it would be really bad.

Then I thought about that and I realized that I had just crafted the world's stupidest post ever. "this game might be good! or average. or bad."

so i never made this post.
Head scratch

yeah it was a close one.
schpain
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Reply #13 on: November 10, 2013, 03:46:57 PM

Personally, I don't think this will be that much of a success, nor will it really compete with LoL or dota2.

But I have to say a lot of the comments I'm reading on the web really remind me of what MMO players were saying about WoW before it was released...

while i've had my blizzard fanboy spine broken severely in recent years, I think people in here are underestimating the blind fervor people will have for a blizzard dota.  i hope its good, but i'm worried.

there will be alot of people playing at launch because blizzard; but the stickiness will depend on it not being shit.

*Should be working*
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Reply #14 on: November 10, 2013, 04:09:30 PM

All you had to do was watch a few of the Q&A sessions of Blizzcon to know there's enough fanboys to keep this running for a few years at least good game or not.

The possibility of a good game on its own merit is equal to the possibility of Hearthstone being the next big CCG.  Pretty low.

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Kail
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Reply #15 on: November 10, 2013, 04:12:15 PM

The characters could be a real strength if they focused on their interactions.

Funny, I had the exact opposite opinion.  Blizzard has always had really visually strong character concepts (the Space Marine, the Orc Warrior, the D2 Barbarian, etc.) even if they were somewhat "inspired by" Warhammer, but their actual specific CHARACTER characters are generally shit.  I mean, their villains are kind of cool, but never really progressed beyond "RAR I AM EVIL AND POWERFUL AND I WILL FUCK SHIT UP BECAUSE I'M A BADASS AND DATS HOW I ROLL BITCHES" and their heroes are pretty much the worst written shit characters ever in the history of the written word.  I mean, Jim Raynor?  I'm supposed to give a shit about Jim Raynor?   Jim "mah dog has fleas, mah truck dun broke down, mah girlfriend's a zerg queen" Raynor?  REALLY?  

If they were letting us "roll our own" or something (play as "Generic Blood Elf" rather than, say, Kael'Thas) I'd be all over this, I could put some stamp of ownership on my character or something, but I have no real interest in watching green Jesus punching totally-not-Tyranids on a mountain in outer space or whatever.
Quinton
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Reply #16 on: November 10, 2013, 04:13:40 PM

I'm not going to hold my breath, but on the other hand I like the moba concept in some ways but find the current model in LoL, etc, rather overwhelming in some ways.  The controls are frustrating (would love to separate movement and action instead of everything being mouse driven), and the item buying side of things is a lot of information to juggle (which of these giant panes of icons is useful for what situations, how to figure out and adapt on the fly, etc).  I suspect they may over-simplify it and remove too much of the interesting bits (definitely my reaction to Hearthstone), but who knows maybe they'll end up with something fun.  I'm not convinced that LoL/DOTA are the only viable model for this sort of game.

EDIT: After looking at the developer interview video and the RPS writeup, it seems that:
- no last hitting (a pretty annoying mechanic)
- shared rewards (with above, less "you killed the wrong thing!")
- no items, instead choices over character skills at levelup
- shorter matches (15-20minutes)
- more variety of maps and objectives

None of that sounds particularly bad to me.  I've dabbled with MOBAs but found them interesting but ultimately frustrating, so I may be an inherently good audience for this thing.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2013, 04:42:33 PM by Quinton »
schild
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Reply #17 on: November 10, 2013, 10:59:11 PM

I'm fine with all of that, but no items is as goofy as no trading in Hearthstone.
kildorn
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Reply #18 on: November 10, 2013, 11:25:00 PM

I don't think a no-items dota clone will have an esports future, but as long as they're just trying to make something polished with wider appeal I don't see how this is at all out of the Blizzard's reach.

If the fools who kept trying to make WoW Arenas into esports still has any pull I expect to see stupid. If the Hearthstone and D3 take 2 people have taken over, I expect this to be a fun diversion.
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Reply #19 on: November 10, 2013, 11:51:04 PM

I'd rather have Blizzard making real games again instead this fan-mod level stuff and a trading cards cash shop.

I mean really, who would want, say Obsidian, invest their time into making Planescape: Fallout mashup Dotas? The Nameless One vs The Courier!   swamp poop
« Last Edit: November 10, 2013, 11:53:14 PM by calapine »

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Ingmar
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Reply #20 on: November 11, 2013, 02:08:22 AM

Well, it might actually make sense if Dota had originally come about using Obsidian's characters in an Obsidian game's engine. The connection is juuuuust a wee bit stronger for Blizzard.

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Reply #21 on: November 11, 2013, 05:12:32 AM

g
If the fools who kept trying to make WoW Arenas into esports still has any pull I expect to see stupid. If the Hearthstone and D3 take 2 people have taken over, I expect this to be a fun diversion.

I'd need to go back and watch the panel again, but I believe this is the SCII team.  They said this started as one of the games they developed to demonstrate how moddable SCII was.  Remember the FPS they originally demoed 4years ago? 

I think The D2 pt 2 lead is a guy from WOW and the Hearthstone lead is from D2.

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I really like the cocks. - Lantyssa
People rarely believe just how good I am at sucking. - Lantyssa
I love the swinging dongs - Signe
HaemishM
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Reply #22 on: November 11, 2013, 11:32:28 AM

I'm fine with all of that, but no items is as goofy as no trading in Hearthstone.

This. A streamlined, dumbed-down LOL-alike doesn't sound fun to me. It sounds like the only real draw is ZOMGBLIZZARDCHARACTERS for whoever still gives a shit about that after D3.

Hayduke
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Reply #23 on: November 11, 2013, 11:38:56 AM

Looks fun though I doubt it'll upset LoL's position at all.  Removing the laning phase, and the more tedious mechanics is a good idea.  Wish there was a way you could import your Diablo or WoW characters as heroes.
Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #24 on: November 11, 2013, 11:44:52 AM

I really like LOL but I can't do 45+ minute matches anymore, especially not when you can be fucked in the first 5min due to unskilled players or just plain assholes making the experience completely unfun.  The ARAM map they added in recently gave me a lot of renewed fun but then again aram can get boring after a while.

HOTS may be LOL-lite but I think that may be all I have time for these days.

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Nebu
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Reply #25 on: November 11, 2013, 12:02:37 PM

I'm looking forward to this.  Call me crazy, but having an alternative to LoL (shitty community) and DOTA (very steep learning curve) seems like a nice sweet spot.

You all know that EA is making releasing a LoL/DOTA clone as well, right?  Dawngate is the name.  
« Last Edit: November 11, 2013, 12:31:04 PM by Nebu »

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HaemishM
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Reply #26 on: November 11, 2013, 12:07:36 PM

I got an email for Dawngate the other day and was perplexed. When I finally saw the EA logo, I deleted the email and haven't looked back.

Malakili
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Reply #27 on: November 11, 2013, 12:11:47 PM

If it was entirely free to play all the characters, I'd agree with you Nebu.  But if I am going to have to deal with a limited character rotation or purchase them with real money or "gold" (in game money) then it becomes a lot less interesting to me because I need to make some substantial investment in time or money to really be able to fully enjoy it.  That doesn't match up with a fun distraction from LoL or DOTA.

If they were following the DOTA 2 model of entirely free to play everything, and then charge for UI skins, character "gear" or skins, announcer packs, etc, then I would probably be pretty happy.
Rokal
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Reply #28 on: November 11, 2013, 12:23:16 PM

The game is a super casual MOBA that looks like a fun every once in a while type of game. You can't buy items, you share xp, and there is no laning phase.

This has already been tried in Guardians of Middle-earth with pretty terrible results. Not being able to buy items really ruins the formula. You lose that feeling of your character getting noticably stronger, which Blizzard should know by now is one of the biggest hooks in gaming. Matches often feel either like stale-mates or foregone conclusions since everyone is around the same power level and you can't "react" to how you or your opponents are doing with appropriate items. What characters are being played ends up mattering much more than anything else.


Personally, I don't think this will be that much of a success, nor will it really compete with LoL or dota2.

But I have to say a lot of the comments I'm reading on the web really remind me of what MMO players were saying about WoW before it was released...

WoW is to MMOs as LoL is to MOBAs. The genre has already been simplified by a company that was in the right place at the right time with an accessible offering of a traditionally inaccessible genre.
Nebu
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Reply #29 on: November 11, 2013, 12:33:30 PM

If they were following the DOTA 2 model of entirely free to play everything, and then charge for UI skins, character "gear" or skins, announcer packs, etc, then I would probably be pretty happy.

How would they make money off of that?  Sell the game at box cost?  Blizzard is into making money more than that.


"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Rasix
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Reply #30 on: November 11, 2013, 12:36:44 PM

Like he said.  People will pay for customization and fluff.   DOTA2 also does a decent job of monetizing their tournament viewership.   However, that requires some sort of competitive scene, which this game won't have for a while (if ever).

-Rasix
luckton
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Reply #31 on: November 11, 2013, 12:49:11 PM

Don't forget Turbine's DC MOBA, Infinite Crisis.  I'm hearing various good/bad things about that...mostly good.

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Malakili
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Reply #32 on: November 11, 2013, 12:54:56 PM

How would they make money off of that?  Sell the game at box cost?  Blizzard is into making money more than that.


Valve is raking in the dough on DOTA 2 by selling costume pieces, couriers, announcers, and UI skins.  Also, keys to open chests with random items. I'm 100% sure people would be tripping over themselves to throw money at a fancy Lich King skin.  Also, when all the characters are free, skins for them are always available.  In LoL I have no reason to buy a skin for a character I don't own, but in DOTA if a fancy skin comes out that really strikes my fancy I have no barrier to just buying it straight up.
Nebu
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Reply #33 on: November 11, 2013, 01:02:31 PM

Valve is raking in the dough on DOTA 2 by selling costume pieces, couriers, announcers, and UI skins.  Also, keys to open chests with random items. I'm 100% sure people would be tripping over themselves to throw money at a fancy Lich King skin.  Also, when all the characters are free, skins for them are always available.  In LoL I have no reason to buy a skin for a character I don't own, but in DOTA if a fancy skin comes out that really strikes my fancy I have no barrier to just buying it straight up.

Solid points.  I'm pretty new to this MOBA thing and that may explain my views.  I must confess that I do like the leveling mechanism in LoL, particularly in that it gives me time to build skills before being thrown to the level 30, fully runed wolves.

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Malakili
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Reply #34 on: November 11, 2013, 01:42:46 PM

Well, that issue can still be addressed by having multiple modes and good matchmaking.  Although DOTA 2 does have a steep learning curve, I've found that the match making has generally put me with people of a roughly even skill level and bot games were enough to teach me the basics really early on.  It can be done without a leveling process.

I will say that the leveling stuff is less of a problem for me than the having to unlock heroes part at this point.  If I like a game enough I'll just put my head down and grind through it if I have to.  That being said, I really really appreciate that DOTA 2 gives me a full and complete game immediately. 

It seems more and more rare for a game to just give you a complete experience "out of the box" these days.
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