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Author Topic: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor  (Read 83611 times)
Rasix
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Reply #1750 on: August 04, 2015, 10:12:47 AM

I submitted a CS ticket.  They want a picture of my ID.   awesome, for real  I think I might just do a phone call instead.

-Rasix
Paelos
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Reply #1751 on: August 04, 2015, 11:38:35 AM

I submitted a CS ticket.  They want a picture of my ID.   awesome, for real  I think I might just do a phone call instead.

I said call them you knob.  awesome, for real

PS - I made that mistake too, which is why I know to call them now.

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Mithas
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Reply #1752 on: August 04, 2015, 02:07:53 PM

Hawkbit
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Reply #1753 on: August 04, 2015, 02:09:02 PM

Not 100% sure, but I think that puts them at pre-Burning Crusade subs. Which would be the lowest dip yet.
Rokal
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Reply #1754 on: August 04, 2015, 02:16:59 PM

Not 100% sure, but I think that puts them at pre-Burning Crusade subs. Which would be the lowest dip yet.

This is the lowest sub # the game has been at since 2005.
Hutch
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Reply #1755 on: August 04, 2015, 03:49:19 PM

Quote
At the end of 2014, World of Warcraft had 10 million subscribers.
Quote
World of Warcraft subscriptions continued to slide, falling from 7.1 million to 5.6 million.
Quote
Activision notes that the game remains the No. 1 subscription-based game on the planet.

And yet somehow
Quote
In terms of financial performance, Activision Blizzard revenue rose during the quarter. The company posted $759 million in revenue for the period, up from $658 million last year. Profit, meanwhile, was $93 million, double the $45 million in net income this time last year.

Is WoW operating at a loss? The more subscribers they lose, the better Activision's overall financials look.

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Paelos
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Reply #1756 on: August 04, 2015, 04:26:00 PM

It's shadow games with the deferred revenues. They are still recognizing over $285M in deferred revenue. A lot of that in my mind is people on 3 and 6 month terms still. Which you can see on the non-GAAP spending. That kind of money usually flows back into the company later in the year, but this year with no expansion? I'm betting it doesn't.

The other thing is that Hearthstone and HOTS is making a fucking killing. Their sub money is going up due to that being lumped in with "Digital and subscription and other revenues"

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Merusk
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Reply #1757 on: August 04, 2015, 04:26:27 PM

Hearthstone and Heroes transactions make up for blizzards side, I imagine. Paelos bothers to comb the prospectus and financial report when issued after the shareholder meeting so he probably has better insight.

Ed: and there's the monkey on cue.

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Reply #1758 on: August 04, 2015, 04:38:29 PM

The reality is I'm glad I didn't short because their accountants are really smart and they are really going to absorb a ton of the WoW losses with Hearthstone and HOTS. I honestly didn't expect them to be able to play the long game as well as they are given how fucked up WoW really is, but they are doing it.

And the funny thing is, they may make more on Hearthstone and HOTS combined than they ever did on WoW. Which is mindblowing given that they are just F2P games.

The 1.5M sub loss is exactly what I saw coming though. I figured 2M in losses before the next xpac. It might get a lot worse, but no matter what it's hard to over up $70M in lost revenue in a quarter due to 1.5M subs alone and trending down. Unless the F2P games really are that gangbusters and then fuck...just close WoW and call it a day.

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Fabricated
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Reply #1759 on: August 04, 2015, 04:58:19 PM

This year is the year that FFXIV will likely surpass WoW in subs.

"The world is populated in the main by people who should not exist." - George Bernard Shaw
Merusk
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Reply #1760 on: August 04, 2015, 05:07:22 PM

And the funny thing is, they may make more on Hearthstone and HOTS combined than they ever did on WoW. Which is mindblowing given that they are just F2P games.

The 1.5M sub loss is exactly what I saw coming though. I figured 2M in losses before the next xpac. It might get a lot worse, but no matter what it's hard to over up $70M in lost revenue in a quarter due to 1.5M subs alone and trending down. Unless the F2P games really are that gangbusters and then fuck...just close WoW and call it a day.

Except it's not mind blowing if you were watching the greater game industry over the last 7 years. That's why so many games have moved to F2P and why, despite the outcry against it that used to be here, I always said it was the future.

So many people blowing way more than $15 a month in $2 and $3 increments because they don't keep track beyond, "Eh, it's just a coffee." It's the same reason people overspend with credit/ debit cards vs. actual cash. The psychology behind it is amazingly easy to manipulate and if you've got no scruples even better. (Hey, candy crush)


I can't get past the panties - Alluvian
I really like the cocks. - Lantyssa
People rarely believe just how good I am at sucking. - Lantyssa
I love the swinging dongs - Signe
Tannhauser
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Reply #1761 on: August 04, 2015, 05:11:59 PM

I'm sitting here thinking honestly about how I could be enticed back into WoW. Only 2 or 3 new classes intrigues me, but then I'll be playing in those stale old zones (what they did to Westfall!).  Or maybe the xpac will get my attention.  WoD wasn't terrible, it was just consumeatainment (trademark!).  One trip to level 100 was enough for me.  

Maybe let the old man WoW rest in bed (and smother him with a pillow if no one will notice), and bring out WoW 2.  That would let Blizzard do what they love most; re-tell the same story over and  over again but this time to the EXTREME (sorry no flying).  Sony had EQ and EQ2 out and it wasn't a disaster, folks played both.

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Reply #1762 on: August 04, 2015, 06:54:29 PM

And the funny thing is, they may make more on Hearthstone and HOTS combined than they ever did on WoW. Which is mindblowing given that they are just F2P games.

The 1.5M sub loss is exactly what I saw coming though. I figured 2M in losses before the next xpac. It might get a lot worse, but no matter what it's hard to over up $70M in lost revenue in a quarter due to 1.5M subs alone and trending down. Unless the F2P games really are that gangbusters and then fuck...just close WoW and call it a day.

Except it's not mind blowing if you were watching the greater game industry over the last 7 years. That's why so many games have moved to F2P and why, despite the outcry against it that used to be here, I always said it was the future.

So many people blowing way more than $15 a month in $2 and $3 increments because they don't keep track beyond, "Eh, it's just a coffee." It's the same reason people overspend with credit/ debit cards vs. actual cash. The psychology behind it is amazingly easy to manipulate and if you've got no scruples even better. (Hey, candy crush)

You're right and that's what doesn't compute for me as an accountant since I never fall for that crap. It's incredibly shallow and stupid for most F2P games, so I don't spend money on them.

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Zetor
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Reply #1763 on: August 04, 2015, 11:53:15 PM

Well, the Blizzard of 2003 would hire some insane well-known uberguild players from a dominant-yet-declining MMO as designers, use their knowledge to polish their in-development MMO to sorta-perfection, then proceed to eat everyone's lunch.

... hmm, something is wrong with this picture. I can't put my finger on it, though... why so serious?

Paelos
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Reply #1764 on: August 05, 2015, 06:05:17 AM

Blizzard would have done well to do a Destiny style game set in the Starcraft universe. I would still recommend doing it. That game would sell billions.

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Reply #1765 on: August 05, 2015, 09:48:25 AM

WoW 2 could work but you won't see it because after seeing Hearthstone and HOTS, watching their long-developed big-budget pre-prepped Starcraft 2 fail utterly at becoming the premier e-sports game, and then being forced to boil down the leftovers of their kazillion dollar dead-end project Titan into Overwatch they'll never invest that kind of capital into a single game ever again even if a finished product would make it all back and then some.

"The world is populated in the main by people who should not exist." - George Bernard Shaw
Paelos
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Reply #1766 on: August 05, 2015, 09:54:26 AM

The idea of Blizzard becoming a fremium clone company depresses me. It's like seeing that supermodel from the 90s as a meth-addicted missing teeth hooker on the side of the road.

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Hutch
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Reply #1767 on: August 05, 2015, 10:26:18 AM

Get in bed with Kotick, wake up on the side of the road with missing teeth.

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Reply #1768 on: August 05, 2015, 10:26:31 AM

I would be shocked if the next Diablo wasn't a F2P title.

Personally, if they're not gonna make good games anymore I'd rather they just beef up their CG team and become the Disney-owned Marvel of CG movies. Tween-friendly, adult-approved action/adventure/comedy stuff. Make Overwatch a movie- I'd watch an hour and a half of something built from the Overwatch trailer. That's more time than I'd give to the game.

"The world is populated in the main by people who should not exist." - George Bernard Shaw
Paelos
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Reply #1769 on: August 05, 2015, 10:39:47 AM

Get in bed with Kotick, wake up on the side of the road with missing teeth.

Honestly, I think Kotick has nothing to do with this. I think the company became so intellectually bankrupt they've run off all their innovators and surrounded themselves with sycophants and fanbois who just wanted to work under the Blizzard flag. As a result, they took all the rope they've been given and hung themselves with it.

Honestly, it's been roughly 17 years since they had a new franchise idea. And they finally had the chance to produce something, and it was so beyond fucked up that it got reduced to afterthought status before being re-purposed because ATVI wasn't going to let their dumbassery off the hook that easy.

You give me 17 years and I can come up with a brand new franchise and world. It's not that fucking complicated. I mean hell the first thing I would have suggested is that Blizzard throw their hat into the idea of a Pirate world of Sailing with various sea-faring empires warring against each other, and create a game that would be on par with Total War in terms of land and ship combat. Basically take their lunch money and fuck them over. Have the idea of RPG captains, family lines, and polish that idea of what the TW people did well and make it your own. They'd sell minimum 10M units of that game, and they could do DLC to their hearts content on new factions, maps, and expansions.

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Reply #1770 on: August 05, 2015, 11:01:04 AM

It's both, really. Kotick was very explicit in expressing his glee at turning formerly creative game designers who wanted to 'do things right' into widget makers and cost hawks looking for new revenue streams 5 years ago.

The lack of franchise ideas I attribute to the same cause as any other company. Fear of failure. You have a string of successes and no outright failures (Unreleased games don't count), you're going to become risk-averse. Especially after the cash cow of WoW 2004 hit and they spent so many of the early years spinning-up the company size to deal with just that.  Had there been a spectacular Titan-sized failure (relative to the company size at the time) prior to WoW we might have seen more innovation. A realization that more IPs would be a better approach than fewer. IMO at least.

Hell, it's not like Warcraft and Starcraft were all that different to begin with since they were both RTS properties originally.

I can't get past the panties - Alluvian
I really like the cocks. - Lantyssa
People rarely believe just how good I am at sucking. - Lantyssa
I love the swinging dongs - Signe
Paelos
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Reply #1771 on: August 05, 2015, 01:05:46 PM

It's both, really. Kotick was very explicit in expressing his glee at turning formerly creative game designers who wanted to 'do things right' into widget makers and cost hawks looking for new revenue streams 5 years ago.

I remember that article, and Kotick came off as an asshole. Also Vivendi was ready to pull the trigger on firing him if he wouldn't get out of the way on the buyout deal. Which they eventually settled and stopped playing hardball.

But that being said, Kotick doesn't send down memos to the idea guys about products. Skylanders came out of the idea that they could do new franchises. Skylanders, Destiny, Guitar Hero, and fucking Call of Duty came out well after Blizzard has created anything new. I mean at some point you have to start treating them as the idiot step-children they've become and charge people two bits a gander.

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angry.bob
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Reply #1772 on: August 05, 2015, 09:38:23 PM

Skylanders came out of the idea that they could do new franchises.

Skylanders has got to be a money waterfall for them. My kid has a whole bookshelf of Skylander figures and expansion packs. All the other boys in his class do as well.

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Reply #1773 on: August 06, 2015, 03:44:45 AM

For what it's worth, I'd rate the odds that WoW actually closes down cleanly somewhere around zero.

And I think I'd put the chance that it goes under some sort of full fledged F2P transition (with server "restructuring") at about 99%.  DDO, Lotro have proven that those can be done successfully, at least for a time.

 
And I think that the idea of counting box sales as the definition of success and revenue is on the way out and has been for a while.  Figuring out how to "maximize profits" is a part of that, but so is a changing industry.  I wouldn't be surprised if in some way, these industry changes have had at least a small effect on why blizzard hasn't made new shit in forever.
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Reply #1774 on: August 06, 2015, 05:32:23 AM

As long as F2P models offer a viable sub option, I'm fine with that. If they don't? Fuck them I'm not playing it. I want to be able to bypass all the nonsense as a subscriber for a time, and define my playtime in limits rather than expenses.

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KallDrexx
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Reply #1775 on: August 06, 2015, 05:40:24 AM

For what it's worth, I'd rate the odds that WoW actually closes down cleanly somewhere around zero.

Well duh.  UO, DAOC, AC1, and EQ1 are all still going.  MMOs have to be extremely terrible to actually shut down.
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Reply #1776 on: August 06, 2015, 06:28:15 AM

Yeah, the PR hit they would get from actively shutting WOW down would be astronomical and far more damaging than watching the Subs dribble out and promising an expansion that they never deliver. WOW will be in maintenance mode till Blizzard dies even if they have to keep it running on a server made from taping together a couple of Commodore 64s and a Spectrum.

One thing strikes me on my tinfoil hat though. What people were saying about activision posting record profits despite losing server numbers Kind of reminded me of the book I just read on Enron. One of the things that did Enron in was the fact they were making contracts then booking the progected profits as current profits under mark to market accounting, and then created new contracts to book THOSE profits and push the losses out into the future (when the BIG IDEA would generate real money to cover those losses.) Its possible that Blizzard is running a similar scheme and booking the projected profits from its upcoming WOW expansion, where all the WOW players will run out and buy it, and using that to cover losses or simply to generate big quarterly profits NOW to keep their share prices up. I know this is tin foil territory and total speculation on my part, and they could simply be doing it to "smooth out" dips in their profitability, but if they ARE doing that and those projected profits from "Thrall XXIII - This Time Its Thrall!!!" do not appear then Blizzard could wind up in big trouble down the line once they actually have to declare those losses.

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Reply #1777 on: August 08, 2015, 02:25:55 PM

I'm sitting here thinking honestly about how I could be enticed back into WoW. Only 2 or 3 new classes intrigues me, but then I'll be playing in those stale old zones (what they did to Westfall!).  Or maybe the xpac will get my attention.  WoD wasn't terrible, it was just consumeatainment (trademark!).  One trip to level 100 was enough for me.  

Maybe let the old man WoW rest in bed (and smother him with a pillow if no one will notice), and bring out WoW 2.  That would let Blizzard do what they love most; re-tell the same story over and  over again but this time to the EXTREME (sorry no flying).  Sony had EQ and EQ2 out and it wasn't a disaster, folks played both.

Unfuck flying and I'll resub for a few months at least.

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Setanta
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Reply #1778 on: August 08, 2015, 03:49:38 PM


Unfuck flying and I'll resub for a few months at least.
This.

I knew the expansion was boring me, I knew that the updates were limited, I knew that I wasn't leaving my garrison and the game had waned for me - but the big FU from "oh ok you can have flying but we'll make you grind for it" was the reminder of what this game is: grind = fun. It was the thing that pushed me to unsub. Not just the flying stuff, but a reminder of "if you'r not having fun you're playing the game wrong"

Fuck that, I have more fun doing PvE in EvE than grinding shit in WoW - and that's not saying much.

It would have been nicer to have made it "well done on playing our game, have some flying as a reward for the money you pay us monthly (now go grind shit - but we won't talk about that)".

I don't think Blizzard are a bad company, I like HoTS more than Dota2/LoL by a long shot, I love Hearthstone more than I do Duels Of the Plainswalker and whatever the latest iteration of M:TG client we're up to, despite despising the original Diablo 3 it's now my go-to because it's drop in polished fun. I want to like Starcraft 2 but it suffers from WoW-itis, it stops being fun which I find weird because I loved Warcraft 3 (and 1 and 2) and Starcraft.

I fired up WC3 a few days ago - it's still fun and TBH, I didn't find the graphics too dated - because the gameplay/world-building was all there and immersed me. WoW no-longer gives me that feeling, they retconned and developed clunky lore that just lost all sense of it being a world.

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Reply #1779 on: August 28, 2015, 02:04:40 AM

They should never have removed flex. The fuckers.

PUG's are currently hitting "Vile" on the toxometer.

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Reply #1780 on: August 28, 2015, 06:38:12 AM

They removed flex? What replaced it?

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apocrypha
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Reply #1781 on: August 28, 2015, 07:22:07 AM

They removed flex? What replaced it?

Tears, wailing, gnashing of teeth and millions of lost subs.

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Reply #1782 on: August 28, 2015, 07:44:20 AM

Their solutions to everything have been, "Grind. Add more grind. More "time in the world!" More things you're required to do! Gates behind gates!"

It's really just gotten old and their approaches have only listened to the hardcore who whine on the forums endlessly. Hardcore whined about flex and so it was removed. Hardcore is also whining that LFR is "too easy" and for it to be removed.

As I've said before, Blizzard's biggest problem is the devs themselves are hardcore gamers. They're sympathetic to the, "It has to MATTER" whines because of this and give-in to decisions that are just stupid from a business perspective. "Hey 7% of our customers who only partake in 3% of our game say things should change. I like what they're saying, so let's do it!"

 Ohhhhh, I see.

I can't get past the panties - Alluvian
I really like the cocks. - Lantyssa
People rarely believe just how good I am at sucking. - Lantyssa
I love the swinging dongs - Signe
Rokal
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Reply #1783 on: August 28, 2015, 08:36:58 AM

They removed flex? What replaced it?



They just renamed it to normal, it still exists. I'd say the difficulty stayed consistent for the first 2 raid zones (Highmaul and Blackrock Foundry), meaning that "new normal" felt like "old flex". Hellfire Citadel is pretty hard on all non-LFR difficulties compared to past raids, and it doesn't currently feel like there is a flex-equivalent difficulty for it.
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Reply #1784 on: August 28, 2015, 10:27:24 AM

So people here were whining about it with no basis in fact?
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