f13.net

f13.net General Forums => World of Warcraft => Topic started by: Paelos on November 08, 2013, 03:55:04 PM



Title: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on November 08, 2013, 03:55:04 PM
Ask and ye shall receive.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on November 08, 2013, 04:01:43 PM
I don't like the fact there's no new races.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Mithas on November 08, 2013, 04:02:21 PM
Yeah they really better hit the other shit out of the park if they aren't going to add things like that.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on November 08, 2013, 04:06:09 PM
Yeah they really better hit the other shit out of the park if they aren't going to add things like that.

Dobutful.  Wife said the live stream made it sound as if all the race models won't come online at live and will be piecemealed in.  They've been working on these for, what, 2 or 3 years now?  When did Nu-Sylvanas, Nu-King and Nu-Jaina appear?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Setanta on November 08, 2013, 04:08:36 PM
I watched the clip for it and all I could think was "more of the same".

Given that Cata/MoP left my alts at 85 or below, the instant boost to 90 for one character leaves me cold. There's no way I want to level alts through cata/MoP ever again, even if its accelerated levelling.

I'll be interested to see how much they vary the game though - have they learned not to create a grind fest?

Graphically - it's looking dated even with updated models.

I'll wait and see because a trailer isn't the game, but I have no excitement generated for this.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Mithas on November 08, 2013, 04:16:16 PM
I thought the first dungeon they showed looked awfully dated. Reused all kinds of old art assets. The old ogre models really look bad.

Didn't they bring on a ton more people for development? Shouldn't they be starting to get better/more stuff?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Miasma on November 08, 2013, 04:26:52 PM
Thank you.

Someone make a new thread about the new expansion so I can complain about how I don't like outland, don't like the dranei, find all orcs really one dimensional/boring, am dubious of time travel plots and am not excited enough about this to resub.

I really did assume once the hype train started for the new expansion I would be unable to stop myself from resubbing but meh.  I really hate Dranei male models, way more than pandas, I don't know why I just do.  Every single orc "plot" is rawr rawr we like war yeah yeah we get it.  The main reason I would have resubbed now is to finish off the last raid and plot stuff I haven't done but now that I know Garrosh "get's away" and is back again in the next expansion why bother?  No new race or class either.

And a whole expansion based on time travel?  I'm willing to not care about having dungeons and raids in alternate histories but this seems lazy, especially since it's somewhere we've already been.  I can't wait for some hot Velen on Velen action either...  I mean I know lolore and the plot by now has so many holes and idiotic changes that it is meant to be ignored but how on earth are they going to reconcile two persistent sets of identical characters?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Fabricated on November 08, 2013, 05:42:09 PM
Man I could give a fuck.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Modern Angel on November 08, 2013, 05:42:20 PM
I'm pretty cool with all the features and I'll buy it, play for three months, pretend I'm playing seriously enough to raid, do that for a a week, realize I'm not serious enough to, and then ubsub. Or, exactly what I did with MoP. And I'm okay with that!

But the time travel thing to save Garrosh is so fucking terrible. You just fucking had a raid to kill/capture him. YOU JUST HAD THIS. Way to make it seem even more like the players are completely incidental to everything in the world.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on November 08, 2013, 06:28:14 PM
Thank you.

Someone make a new thread about the new expansion so I can complain about how I don't like outland, don't like the dranei, find all orcs really one dimensional/boring, am dubious of time travel plots and am not excited enough about this to resub.

I really did assume once the hype train started for the new expansion I would be unable to stop myself from resubbing but meh.  I really hate Dranei male models, way more than pandas, I don't know why I just do.  Every single orc "plot" is rawr rawr we like war yeah yeah we get it.  The main reason I would have resubbed now is to finish off the last raid and plot stuff I haven't done but now that I know Garrosh "get's away" and is back again in the next expansion why bother?  No new race or class either.

And a whole expansion based on time travel?  I'm willing to not care about having dungeons and raids in alternate histories but this seems lazy, especially since it's somewhere we've already been.  I can't wait for some hot Velen on Velen action either...  I mean I know lolore and the plot by now has so many holes and idiotic changes that it is meant to be ignored but how on earth are they going to reconcile two persistent sets of identical characters?
(http://i.imgur.com/Uo3m596.jpg)


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on November 08, 2013, 06:29:12 PM
Metzen dude. Metzen.

Anyway yeah I can very much see this as a "play for 3 months, probably realize I'm not a raider still and in my 30s, and unsub until they take the cocksmashing out of the early game."

I can only dream that they won't do something really stupid with valor point gating I don't see coming yet.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Fabricated on November 08, 2013, 08:15:17 PM
Nope, the endgame will absolutely be cockblocky past LFR. Normal, Heroic, and Mythic will all be way beyond the capabilities of most players and getting raid-ready will be a fucking pain in the ass. Blizzard just does not learn enough from its mistakes.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on November 08, 2013, 09:36:50 PM
It's weird but they keep trying to avoid saying time travel, to the point that stuff is making little to no sense.  Look at all the QnA stuff, it's ridiculous how much they are dodging the "how is this shit possible if not time travel?" questions.  New models look nice but nothing really grabbing me, oh look outland again, yawn.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on November 09, 2013, 12:59:21 AM
I just got home from a 10 hour shift, and I'm catching up on stuffs...

If I'm reading this right, Garrosh is going to go back in time and prevent the Orcs from drinking the demon blood that makes them invade Azeroth the first time around.

So we're retconning Warcraft 1, 2, 3, Vanilla, and BC (technically Wrath too since the Lich King wouldn't have been created without the orcs falling to the demons as well).

I think we're done here.  The features are nice and all, and mobile support for the garrison stuff would be a REALLY nice touch, but I think it's time to move on.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Miasma on November 09, 2013, 01:14:42 AM
The funny thing is they can't possibly come up with raids that are nothing but fucking orcs orcs orcs so at some point the burning legion have to come into the raid structure.  Are we now helping Garrosh against them?  It's just so idiotic.

If they promise to just say "fuck it our whole world is retarded and we will make the end raid boss of the expansion be Sargeras because why not and then we will shut the servers down."  I will buy it just to come full circle and be a part of the end as I was the beginning.

I want to kill Sargeras.

Edit: I'm so very cold in here right now.  It feels cold, I'm going to open a window.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on November 09, 2013, 01:48:00 AM
jesus christ how did it get more metzen-y

how

hooooooooooow


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: ezrast on November 09, 2013, 02:01:56 AM
I just got home from a 10 hour shift, and I'm catching up on stuffs...

If I'm reading this right, Garrosh is going to go back in time and prevent the Orcs from drinking the demon blood that makes them invade Azeroth the first time around.

So we're retconning Warcraft 1, 2, 3, Vanilla, and BC (technically Wrath too since the Lich King wouldn't have been created without the orcs falling to the demons as well).

I think we're done here.  The features are nice and all, and mobile support for the garrison stuff would be a REALLY nice touch, but I think it's time to move on.
Aren't 1 and 2 basically retconned out of existence already? Back then, orcs invaded because they were bloodthirsty warmongers and had a way in. IIRC demons had fuckall to do with it aside from whispering "psst, Draenor would be a sweet place to open a portal to" to Medivh when he was going batshit in the Twisting Nether. Or maybe the "Orcs are just misunderstood" thing started way back in 2, I can't remember now.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on November 09, 2013, 03:00:26 AM
Oh God, does this mean more ugly-as-shit Outland armor?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ingmar on November 09, 2013, 03:11:08 AM
So much Metzen waaaaaaaaaaaaaank


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Nevermore on November 09, 2013, 06:07:15 AM
I'm so glad I have zero interest in WoW anymore.  Now I can just sit back and watch the trainwreck.

 :popcorn:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Tannhauser on November 09, 2013, 10:09:40 AM
The garrison stuff is interesting.  The Doff STO missions are cool.  I've been bitching for some time for housing in the world like UO instead of instanced.  Yes, I know some of the problems that entails but still.

The rest of the shit I couldn't care less about. 

-Welcome back to Draenor!  Where you've been before...in the future. But with new changes to the zones and and hijinks!
-Speaking of hijinks, Garrosh, the orc no one likes is back and causing trouble again.  Garrosh you little scamp!
-Instantly level a character to 90.  We know our game is old and busted.  Just buy it, god I've got a family to feed!


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on November 09, 2013, 10:17:41 AM
The garrison stuff is interesting.  The Doff STO missions are cool.  I've been bitching for some time for housing in the world like UO instead of instanced.  Yes, I know some of the problems that entails but still.

Well, instanced in that each garrison will be phased to a specific player so you won't be running around seeing other peoples little towns.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Zetor on November 09, 2013, 10:28:48 AM
Making instanced (arena) pvp use standardized gearsets was something they should've done 4 expansions ago. Still, better late than never... or something.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on November 09, 2013, 10:30:39 AM
Also, it looks like they're finally doing a MUDflation smash.  Shots I'm seeing seem to reflect lvl 100s running around with Wrath-era numbers.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on November 09, 2013, 10:45:00 AM
More stat info:

Hit and Expertise may be getting the axe.
New stat seen: Readiness - Reduces cooldown on your abilities
Other things mentioned: Movement speed and Cleave.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rokal on November 09, 2013, 12:12:44 PM
Oh God, does this mean more ugly-as-shit Outland armor?

Nah, Draenor zones don't seem to have any of the interesting art style/colors from Outlands, so the armor is bound to look really boring/uninspired as well.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on November 09, 2013, 12:39:34 PM
Talking up the Alliance a hell of a lot.

And it IS time travel, Metzen just verified in the lore panel.  But trying to listen to Metzen explain quantum timelines was  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Outlawedprod on November 09, 2013, 02:40:36 PM
If you're lucky you can get ignores durability loss on your armor.

Just like Diablo 3.  Zerg those packs baby!


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on November 09, 2013, 02:48:01 PM
Talking up the Alliance a hell of a lot.

And it IS time travel, Metzen just verified in the lore panel.  But trying to listen to Metzen explain quantum timelines was  :awesome_for_real:
I'm thinking the "it's not time travel" thing was meant more along the lines of "it's not a time travel story, it's a story which involves time travel" i.e. the difference between the Star Trek reboot and Star Trek IV - one uses it as a plot device, one has it as the basis for the entire plot. What I don't get is why they made such a big deal out of it.  :uhrr:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: koro on November 09, 2013, 05:09:52 PM
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/bf8be897a4760ebce42c972492f7d368/tumblr_mvyza9L8641rnsth8o1_400.jpg)

 :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Fabricated on November 09, 2013, 05:10:03 PM
lol @ the itemization changes:

-Hit and Expertise don't feel like a bonus, so they are now gone!

-Dodge and Parry, gone!

-Reforging, gone!

-Enchanting is still around, but fewer items can be enchanted. There will be more enchant choices for those items.

-The number of items with gem sockets will be gone. Only one gem slot per item. Gems are more powerful. Sockets are a bonus that don't count towards item level budget. No more socket bonuses or meta gems.

-The stats on armor will now change based on your spec. Plate drops and it will have whatever stats your class needs, no more Intellect plate! No more PvP Priest Healing set and PvP Priest DPS set, just a Priest set.

-Jewelery, cloak, trinkets, and weapons will be more role focused and might keep stats.

-Armor will become a good tanking stat again, Spirit will be good for healers.

-Tertiary stats are bonus stats that can appear on gear that don't count towards the item level budget. Lifesteal, avoidance, sturdiness, movement speed (stacks with other bonuses), cleave, and more.
Item squish is in! All of the big jumps from old expansions and raid tiers will be flattened.

-Your relative power won't change, just the numbers. The speed at which you kill things won't change. You can still solo old content.

Aahahahh. Yeah let's just massively oversimplify everything again. That'll make people give a shit.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Fabricated on November 09, 2013, 05:14:10 PM
*gets new drop*

Okay, is the item level higher? Alright, cool.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Nevermore on November 09, 2013, 05:14:21 PM
Spirit will be good for healers.

Haven't they said this in every expansion since forever?  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Outlawedprod on November 09, 2013, 05:15:10 PM
*gets new drop*

Okay, is the item level higher? Alright, cool.

Next patch they will base everything off weapon dps.

Ignore durability loss will be key for starting out in inferno difficulty raids so you can save on repairs.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Fabricated on November 09, 2013, 05:17:37 PM
I like how they literally erased a major feature from Cataclysm. At least I think so; Reforging was Cata right?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on November 09, 2013, 05:21:20 PM
Yeah, it was Cataclysm.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on November 09, 2013, 05:25:01 PM
I like how they literally erased a major feature from Cataclysm. At least I think so; Reforging was Cata right?

Yes. Although I honestly hate it. While I understand how it can fully work, it also makes it so you get one drop at an Ilvl and that's it. You have no interest in ever seeing another set of those gloves or whatever. Plus all it's done is add another chore you have to go through by going to the optimization sites, retooling all your gear, and putting in all the right gems and enchants.

While that's good for the crafters, it offers absolutely nothing in terms of customization since the stats don't allow for that.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rendakor on November 09, 2013, 10:15:35 PM
Welp, there goes the tiny bit of character build customization WoW still had and with it any hope of me playing again.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: calapine on November 09, 2013, 10:23:48 PM
So much Metzen waaaaaaaaaaaaaank

I haven't followed Warcraft lore since the Burning Crusade. What kind Metzen shit happened? How bad is it?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Setanta on November 09, 2013, 10:25:40 PM
Edit because I mixed up reforging with transmog of armour.

Reforge I couldn't give a shit about if they get the stats right off the mark


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on November 09, 2013, 10:59:35 PM
Reforge as it stands is pointless.  For my shadow priest it's literally max hit then everything into haste.  It's not fun and doesn't provide any customization beyond doing it the right way or the wrong way.  It was a stupid system in the first place, though the IDEA wasn't bad, but the implementation was.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rokal on November 09, 2013, 11:55:48 PM
*gets new drop*

Okay, is the item level higher? Alright, cool.

It'll actually cause people to look at individual items more. Currently people can just look at the ilvl to determine whether a piece of gear is a good upgrade for them, as reforging allows you to change the secondary stats if they aren't ideal. For example if I have 450 gloves on my fury warrior I know that the 455 gloves that drop will be an upgrade for me even if they have haste on them, since I can change that into a secondary stat that doesn't suck for fury. In WoD that item might not be an upgrade despite the higher ilvl, I might wait for one with better secondary stats since I have no way of changing what is on there. You're going to have to do math for every piece of gear you replace unless the ilvl change is huge (is this gain of 4 ilvls/40 Strength worth losing 100 crit?). That's going to get obnoxious fast.

I get that people think reforging is this big burden when you get new gear. Every time I get a new piece of gear, I end up having to reforge 3-4 pieces to get as close as possible to hit/expertise caps again. Since they are removing hit/expertise, I think it would have been in a much better position of feeling optional & giving you some flexibility in what gear you take. Will be sad to see it go.

Reforge as it stands is pointless.  For my shadow priest it's literally max hit then everything into haste.  It's not fun and doesn't provide any customization beyond doing it the right way or the wrong way.  It was a stupid system in the first place, though the IDEA wasn't bad, but the implementation was.

It definitely works better for some classes/specs than others. With my brewmaster monk, there isn't a clear "best" secondary stat after hit/expertise cap so your reforges are based on trying to round yourself out vs. specializing.

Do I want to focus on crit to increase the chance that my dodge cooldown is procing reliably?
Do I want to focus on haste to have more resources for active mitigation?
Do I want to focus on mastery to potentially mitigate more damage?

For my monk I went with B for the first raid cluster, A for the second, and a combo of A & C for the third. That was a pretty fun "decision" to keep making about the gear I was getting, and it felt like the way Blizzard wanted reforging to work for every class/spec.

That said, they failed pretty hard at it for most class/specs.



Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: SurfD on November 10, 2013, 12:59:03 AM
I like how they literally erased a major feature from Cataclysm. At least I think so; Reforging was Cata right?
Yah, it was Cata.  However, this is kind of consistant with their design policy.  Reforging was introduced as an experiment in ways to allow you to "get the most" out of gear that might not be exactly perfect for your spec.  I think it was originally intended to make improving your performance "easier", but ended up just adding a largely unneeded level of complexity to piece-meal upgrades (yay, i got new boots. Fuck, now i have to reforge / regem half my shit to minmax again.....).  Seems like they have just decided to axe it (and the whole here is a belt with 4 gem slots, go nuts) shit and work on adding (what they hope) will be more interesting tertiary stats (like a stat that buffs aoe damage, or reduces cooldown times).

All in all, i kind of like the change.

One thing is somewhat unclear to me though.  They mention that there will nolonger be "stat specific gear" (ie, Intellect plate).  Does that mean that when my paladin in his full ret set changes spec from ret to holy, ALL of his currently equipped gear shifts from Strength + secondary / tertiary stats to Int + same secondary / Tertiary stats?  If so, then FUCKING HELL YES.  SOOO god damned tired of having 40 odd bag slots taken up by gear on my druid.....


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on November 10, 2013, 05:25:59 AM
So much Metzen waaaaaaaaaaaaaank

I haven't followed Warcraft lore since the Burning Crusade. What kind Metzen shit happened? How bad is it?
It's parallel timelines: Garrosh is a sore loser so he goes back to pre-WC1 Draenor and said "You don't need to drink that demon blood because I've brought back plans for war machines and weapons from half a century in the future instead". So the 'normal' original Horde is replaced by an Iron Horde and the Dark Portal gets aimed back at the main timeline i.e. us (because otherwise who gives a shit?: "Garrosh wants to conquer a parallel Azeroth? Great. More power to him. Keeps him out of our way")


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: apocrypha on November 10, 2013, 05:40:16 AM
Quick question cos I'm too lazy to trawl through the fan sites, but is the garrison account-wide or character based does anyone know?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on November 10, 2013, 06:04:43 AM
Mostly character-based; apparently there are 'technical issues' with making it account wide but they said something about wanting to add catch-up stuff for alts.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Draegan on November 10, 2013, 08:03:09 AM
The item squish and the changes to reforging, geming, gearing in general is something that really interests me. If I'm in the mood for an MMOG and Wildstar doesn't snag me, I might actually play WOW again.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Miasma on November 10, 2013, 08:32:40 AM
Why would the item squish interest anybody?  If it actually works the way they want it to it should make zero functional difference.  You could just have an addon that divided all the hp by 100 for display and it would be the same thing.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Outlawedprod on November 10, 2013, 08:59:22 AM
I guess they are really banking on the movie to bring people in.  The eta on this is Nov/Dec 2014.  They have stated there are no content patches coming until this xpac.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Draegan on November 10, 2013, 09:22:55 AM
Why would the item squish interest anybody?  If it actually works the way they want it to it should make zero functional difference.  You could just have an addon that divided all the hp by 100 for display and it would be the same thing.

I duno, just a feeling. I last played in WOTLK and when I see people with a billion dps it's just goofy as fuck and unrelatable.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rendakor on November 10, 2013, 10:05:45 AM
I guess they are really banking on the movie to bring people in.  The eta on this is Nov/Dec 2014.  They have stated there are no content patches coming until this xpac.
I'm not sure how they plan to avoid bleeding subs like crazy in a year with no new content. I also forgot that the movie was still going to be a thing.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Soln on November 10, 2013, 10:21:31 AM
Why would the item squish interest anybody?  If it actually works the way they want it to it should make zero functional difference.  You could just have an addon that divided all the hp by 100 for display and it would be the same thing.

I duno, just a feeling. I last played in WOTLK and when I see people with a billion dps it's just goofy as fuck and unrelatable.

Totally agree


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on November 10, 2013, 10:30:33 AM
I guess they are really banking on the movie to bring people in.  The eta on this is Nov/Dec 2014.  They have stated there are no content patches coming until this xpac.

I don't really think that's feasible. I was expecting July. The last expansion cycle was about 21-22 months between Cata and MOP. If they do that again with about 21-22 months, it should release in summer 2014.

Also while I don't think they'll do a pure raid patch, I do think they'll release some content stuff in the interim, possibly a dungeon or something that relates to the timeless isle, or some more faction stuff, etc.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Outlawedprod on November 10, 2013, 01:19:37 PM
LMFAO
http://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/comments/1q9ila/did_someone_say_thunderfury_blessed_blade_of_the/

Demon Hunter weapon.  Hopefully they introduce wingclip so you can spam it to proc =p


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on November 10, 2013, 01:23:34 PM
So much Metzen waaaaaaaaaaaaaank

I haven't followed Warcraft lore since the Burning Crusade. What kind Metzen shit happened? How bad is it?
It's parallel timelines: Garrosh is a sore loser so he goes back to pre-WC1 Draenor and said "You don't need to drink that demon blood because I've brought back plans for war machines and weapons from half a century in the future instead". So the 'normal' original Horde is replaced by an Iron Horde and the Dark Portal gets aimed back at the main timeline i.e. us (because otherwise who gives a shit?: "Garrosh wants to conquer a parallel Azeroth? Great. More power to him. Keeps him out of our way")

Going back in time to use future weapons to conquer the future.  A plot so brilliantly stupid it could only come from Metzen. 

The whole point of time traveling with future weapons is they're super weapons.  M16 vs. Muskets.  /sigh.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on November 10, 2013, 02:26:52 PM
Sure, given a rational actor. However, Garrosh wants revenge and validation of his world-view in equal measure. Getting (what he sees as) the 'real' Horde upgunned and up-to-speed and then bringing them back as an army at his back to show everyone else that he was right all along, the orcish culture is superior to those mongrel lesser races, and so on and so forth probably seems more important to him than opening the alt-Dark Portal to alt-Azeroth and flattening everyone there.

Mind you, I'm sort of hoping that Garrosh gets killed off in a hilarious and karmic manner in 6.0 or 6.1 anyway. Preferably by a pissed-off Grom who finds out that he's been manipulated by this stranger since day one and the whole "Iron Horde" thing originated as a glorified temper tantrum by a sore loser.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rokal on November 10, 2013, 02:34:37 PM
I guess they are really banking on the movie to bring people in.  The eta on this is Nov/Dec 2014.  They have stated there are no content patches coming until this xpac.

I don't really think that's feasible. I was expecting July. The last expansion cycle was about 21-22 months between Cata and MOP. If they do that again with about 21-22 months, it should release in summer 2014.

Also while I don't think they'll do a pure raid patch, I do think they'll release some content stuff in the interim, possibly a dungeon or something that relates to the timeless isle, or some more faction stuff, etc.

They aren't doing any more patches between now and WoD, but they also aren't aiming for Nov/Dec 2014.

Quote
   Q: "Typically after you announce something it is another year, but we are at Patch 5.4 now. What content do you have planned for between now and then?"
A: "Any content we do now will delay the expansion by the same amount of time it took us to make that content. We are completely focused on making the next expansion and will try to deliver that as soon as we can, hopefully on a shorter cycle than players are imagining, but you never know, we will have to see."

Q: "Typically that would be in the Winter of next year. Does that mean it is a goal to bring it in to Summer or Spring?"
A: "Well certainly the goal is before that, but we'll see, it is very hard for us to predict."

I'd read what they said above, and assume that meant we were actually going to get it in Nov/Dec 2014 because they always miss their target, but they were able to release MoP patch content on a pretty brisk schedule so maybe they'll actually pull a summer release off.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on November 10, 2013, 03:13:41 PM
If they don't get it out by summer, with absolutely no filler in the meantime, they won't have enough people still interested to put up with their ridiculous alternative timeline Metzen wank Cataclysm 2.0


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Mithas on November 11, 2013, 09:43:09 AM
I'd be really surprised if this took a year before it was ready. Someone asked a dev if they were shooting for spring/summer and they said that they'd hope to have it done before then.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Father mike on November 11, 2013, 11:26:33 AM
I'd be really surprised if this took a year before it was ready. Someone asked a dev if they were shooting for spring/summer and they said that they'd hope to have it done before then.

I remember them saying that after Cataclysm, they were "hoping" to go to an expansion every 12-14 months  :awesome_for_real:

This is Blizzard.  They may want to have an expansion out by April/May, but I'll be surprised if they get it out before Oct/Nov.

Counterpoint:
Haven't they released expansions at times that stole other MMO's thunder?  Could they be trying to make a spring release in an attempt to torpedo Wildstar?  I'm pretty sure they're not overly worried about Wildstar, but with WOW's sub numbers substantially down from peak, this wouldn't be a shocking move.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Mithas on November 11, 2013, 11:31:18 AM
No new classes should really help things. No need to balance anything. I think they get the need for urgency here. Just have to wait and see if they deliver.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: proudft on November 11, 2013, 11:47:44 AM
My sense of order is still disrupted by Death Knights being the only Hero class.  I wish they would add some other Hero Class.  Mountain King would be nice.  But every class got homogenized into blandness anyway in Cataclysm, so I guess it doesn't matter much.   

I've still been playing the Chinese version off and on (since early this year I think) and finally reached Northrend at my ludicrously slow pace, and man, WOTLK really was the best.   It's been maybe three years since I wandered around there and it was like hopping back on a friendly horse.

I even felt saucy and did Utgarde Keep since I knew I would remember what to do even if I couldn't spend the time to decipher anything and after 9 minutes in the queue (that was sort of disappointingly long) the random group blew through it in like 12 minutes.  The balance on everything is so out of whack now...  I assume it is sort of 'right' in Pandaria (I never did play that), but at the low(er) levels it is really bizarre.  Maybe item squishing will fix that, I dunno.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on November 11, 2013, 01:14:27 PM
The "feel" of Northrend is certainly the best. No other zone set gives me the same feel of the world as flying around up there. I love that place.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on November 11, 2013, 02:41:10 PM
My sense of order is still disrupted by Death Knights being the only Hero class.  I wish they would add some other Hero Class.  Mountain King would be nice.  But every class got homogenized into blandness anyway in Cataclysm, so I guess it doesn't matter much.   

They said long ago that the DKs are no longer considered a "Hero" class, and there wouldn't be any further classes that start like them.  With the kickstart to 90 with the new expansion, their 'start a new character' advantage is removed, too.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Modern Angel on November 11, 2013, 05:42:57 PM
Word I've heard is that it's already in a limited beta with a proper closed beta ready to go. Also head that they've reworked their teams to crank out content more quickly. I reckon they know what's riding on this and that they'll get it out. The game they're actually worried about is GW2 and my hunch is that it's at least as much to do with a sense of professional pride as sales. By that I mean I can almost guarantee they're looking at the two content patches a month GW2 pushes out, thinking "goddammit, we're fucking Blizzard and they're showing us up", and getting irritated enough to kick things into a higher gear. So I'm going to go with the optimistic end of things and say March.

I dunno. I'm still kind of stoked about this. A friend who works there gave me a copy of MoP when I had no intention of buying it and I came away impressed. I'm an absolute sucker for TBC and Outland, so the setting and feel work for me. Seeing all of the features nice and condensed on wowhead in an easy to decipher fashion made me more excited, too. Still won't be like the old days in terms of my playtime, but that's cool. Nothing is like it was in the old days in terms of my playtime.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on November 11, 2013, 05:51:04 PM
I need to share this (http://wow.joystiq.com/2013/11/09/breakfast-topic-blizzard-just-saved-the-world-of-warcraft/) because I love embarrassing, super-breathless predictions.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on November 11, 2013, 05:58:26 PM
I need to share this (http://wow.joystiq.com/2013/11/09/breakfast-topic-blizzard-just-saved-the-world-of-warcraft/) because I love embarrassing, super-breathless predictions.

Quote
That drive, and that passion, is what is going to lead this game to the next decade of its life. Mark my words: November 8, 2013 will be looked back at as the turning point for WoW. It is a fixed point in time, when what came before was one way, and what came after was another.

I like that he's treating a video game announcement, not a game, not an actual game...

Fuck it, here's Alan to weigh in on my thoughts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tknXRyUEJtU


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Trippy on November 11, 2013, 06:08:47 PM
I need to share this (http://wow.joystiq.com/2013/11/09/breakfast-topic-blizzard-just-saved-the-world-of-warcraft/) because I love embarrassing, super-breathless predictions.
That guy has been taking writing lessons from Geldon.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Tannhauser on November 11, 2013, 06:21:49 PM
Jesus, that blog writer is pathetic.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on November 11, 2013, 06:24:20 PM
It's only the premiere WoW-fansite blog.  What were you expecting?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on November 11, 2013, 06:27:26 PM
Slightly less naked fapping, that's all. I've read articles of theirs where they've gotten super pumped over a coming feature, but this is the first one where I actually felt embarrassed for the person writing it.

In other news, apparently they're leaning towards not letting us pick out our new look when the new models go live? There is not enough :uhrr: for that if they don't change their minds.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on November 11, 2013, 06:30:54 PM
Funny thing is that if he'd made a post just as hyperbolic but negative, most people here would be thoughtfully stroking their neckbeards and going "hmmm, yase, that is certainly an accurate article".  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on November 11, 2013, 06:36:42 PM
 :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Outlawedprod on November 11, 2013, 07:31:50 PM
I need to share this (http://wow.joystiq.com/2013/11/09/breakfast-topic-blizzard-just-saved-the-world-of-warcraft/) because I love embarrassing, super-breathless predictions.

This guy's writing gig probably depends on this expansion =p


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on November 11, 2013, 09:02:55 PM
Funny thing is that if he'd made a post just as hyperbolic but negative, most people here would be thoughtfully stroking their neckbeards and going "hmmm, yase, that is certainly an accurate article".  :awesome_for_real:

It never would have been brought up.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ironwood on November 12, 2013, 04:07:03 AM
" A Fixed Point in Time."

Wow.  Way to make yourself out to be a Wow Asshole and also a Dr Who Nerd.

 :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on November 12, 2013, 07:02:39 AM
The first quest you get when you arrive in Draenor.



Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on November 12, 2013, 08:14:06 AM
Great Scott!


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Hutch on November 12, 2013, 09:14:15 AM
I need to share this (http://wow.joystiq.com/2013/11/09/breakfast-topic-blizzard-just-saved-the-world-of-warcraft/) because I love embarrassing, super-breathless predictions.

I don't, like, know what you guys were expecting, but WoW Insider is, like, the cheerleadiest of the Blizzard cheerleader sites.
And that author is, like, the Head Cheerleader.

When he sits down to type, it's hard to tell where his shoulders end and Blizzards hands begin.

Much of the content at WoW Insider is timely and informative, and that's why I didn't kick them off my reader a long time ago. But yeah, that guy's role seems to be writing editorials with the fanboy voice.



Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on November 12, 2013, 09:30:04 AM
You can be excited and a fan both without using lines like this:

Quote
The spark is lit, Blizzard started down the path to restoring WoW. I haven't felt the vibe of a BlizzCon like this in a long time. Chris Metzen was beaming with excitement and pride yesterday, Dave Kosak could barely contain himself when talking about the lore, and the Art Panel delivered a presentation for the ages. Yesterday saw a team of game designers not defeated, not making content patches for a game that's going to die off in five years, not just biding their time until something better comes along. Yesterday we saw the full force of one of the world's greatest entertainment companies come to bear on a game that needed a helping hand.

I mean honestly, all that needs to follow that is the entire team runs out of the locker-room screaming how we are going to beat those stinking orcs.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Malakili on November 12, 2013, 09:31:34 AM
Quote
And finally last but not least, the third thing that demonstrates Blizzard turned a new page on WoW yesterday was the new character models. We've known for a couple years these were being worked on. It's been a not-so-secret-secret, occasionally talked about, often mislead in subtle statements of unclarity. But yesterday the gloves came off and we saw what our characters will soon look like.

Amazing doesn't describe it. The transformation are astounding, they're revolutionary.

Listen, if some WoW fanboy wants to get all jazzed up over a time travel expansion because they really like the idea then I think they're goofy but FINEEEEEE.  But to call higher res character models "revolutionary" is just going too far.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on November 12, 2013, 09:34:34 AM
And I could honestly forgive a lot of this unbridled insanity of enthusiasm IF IT WAS ACTUALLY ABOUT A RELEASED PRODUCT.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ironwood on November 12, 2013, 10:42:01 AM
I would be happy if Blizz could just stop my video card crashing during that fucked up Glowy dragon fight raid, even tho I put every setting on ULTRA LOW.

New Models my fucking arsehole.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on November 12, 2013, 10:42:56 AM
Is it time for a new machine, or is this just a graphic card being wonky?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ironwood on November 12, 2013, 10:46:56 AM
Well, it's a new Graphics Card that should be able to handle THE SHIT outta WoW.  I personally think it's the drivers, but for some reason I can do every raid no trouble;  the minute that fucked up Dragon turns us all into Twinklies, it just shits itself.

Screen goes black for about 30-45 seconds and, I don't know if you remember, but if you don't time that fight you tend to FALL INTO A CUNTINGLY BIG FUCKING HOLE AND DIE without the chance of a res.

 :heartbreak:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on November 12, 2013, 10:52:50 AM
Yeah that doesn't happen to my card at all, and it's a GTX 285 from 2009. It's drivers.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on November 12, 2013, 04:21:39 PM
I don't, like, know what you guys were expecting, but WoW Insider is, like, the cheerleadiest of the Blizzard cheerleader sites.
And that author is, like, the Head Cheerleader.

As others have noted, there's being a cheerleader, and then there's ... that. It wraps around from being excited about a new expansion into a creepy sort of desperation that this expansion has just got to turn shit around, that new character models are exactly what was needed to right the ship, and MARK THIS DATE DOWN, EVERYONE, EVERYTHING HAS CHANGED FOREVER.

I think it's the combination of THIS EXPANSION WILL CHANGE EVERYTHING combined with the really small list of actual goddamn features (a free 90, new models and a form of player housing at last) that really makes it extra hilarious to me.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on November 12, 2013, 04:27:16 PM
But the art panel delivered a presentation for the ages.

FOR THE MOTHERFUCKING AGES Y'ALL.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on November 12, 2013, 04:36:59 PM
The followers thing with the garrisons is interesting.  Seems like they're taking the interesting parts of SWTORs companion system.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ironwood on November 12, 2013, 04:40:58 PM
That's exactly what I thought too.

Aha, I thought, they've nicked the companion shit from SWTOR.  Interesting.

Then I remembered that the Companion Shit from SWTOR was just a cunningly hidden grind and felt sad.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Tannhauser on November 12, 2013, 04:50:31 PM
I rolled my eyes so much at that blog post that I got a migraine.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on November 12, 2013, 06:36:19 PM
The followers thing with the garrisons is interesting.  Seems like they're taking the interesting parts of SWTORs companion system.
That would be the interesting parts EA stole from STO's duty officer system, yes?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on November 12, 2013, 06:42:29 PM
They released at essentially the same time, in the same month.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on November 12, 2013, 06:46:10 PM
Wait, sending companions out to gather shit is considered the interesting part about companions?  :uhrr:


edit: Oh wait, they might have personalities. Blizzard personalities, but personalities nonetheless!

Won't lie, if they make the garrison thing properly awesome, I will totally play again for at least a few months.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Nevermore on November 12, 2013, 06:55:17 PM
But what if the WoW companions are voiced by that Mt. Hyjal intro dragon dude?  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ingmar on November 12, 2013, 07:14:48 PM
THE FIRELORD HAS <pause to read card> RISEN!


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on November 12, 2013, 07:26:21 PM
But what if the WoW companions are voiced by that Mt. Hyjal intro dragon dude?  :awesome_for_real:

Hahaha, oh God. Timmy the Intern was not having a good day when he recorded that.

On the flip side, what if they have the dude who did Illidan voice them? I fucking loved how much scenery that guy chewed.  :drillf:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Fabricated on November 13, 2013, 07:57:29 AM
I don't think I recognized any actual union voice talent (like Cam Clarke who did like...a shitload of characters from Vanilla->WoTLK) in Cata or Pandaria. Been a while though.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on November 13, 2013, 10:07:52 AM
Jim Cummings did well with the Lorewalker Cho voice, despite the fact I generally don't like the character.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on November 13, 2013, 12:41:53 PM
I don't think I recognized any actual union voice talent (like Cam Clarke who did like...a shitload of characters from Vanilla->WoTLK) in Cata or Pandaria. Been a while though.
Quote
Christopher Lee is a well known actor from movies above and beyond such as The God Father and Lord of the Rings Trilogy. He voices Shao-Tien Executioner in N [90] The Mogu's Message, Qiang the Merciless in Mogu'shan Vaults, Hu'seng the Gatekeeper in A [90] A Bold Idea/H [90] Decisive Action and Emperor Lei Shen also known as the Thunder King at the start of Tear Down This Wall! and in Throne of Thunder.
For another example.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on November 13, 2013, 03:16:01 PM
"Normal" actors don't necessarily make for good voice actors, which I assume is what Fabricated meant. Voice actors, rather than stunt casting actor-actors. Christopher Lee probably did fine, of course, and I think it's cool they got him to do something. Most actors do adequately when given a voice to do, but by and large they have a different skill set from voice actors, what with being able to also use their faces and bodies to act and all.

Honestly, though, the voice acting in WoW is all over the place, but I actually found that sort of charming. I can laugh at poor derpy Timmy the Green Dragon or the hilariously awful screams at post-Wrathgate (aaaaaah.), I can find the ethereal boss in the Violet Hold embarrassingly hot, I can unironically enjoy all the nonsense coming out of Lord Jaraxxus' or Moroes' mouth, etc.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on November 13, 2013, 03:29:26 PM
the hilariously awful screams at post-Wrathgate (aaaaaah.)
That reminds me, I found this goat at Halfhill the other day: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQC_gyFIQBY


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on November 13, 2013, 03:36:34 PM
The guy who voiced the hot Ethereal also voiced Tortolla the huge turtle god.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on November 13, 2013, 04:45:07 PM
Man, don't make it weird!  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ironwood on November 13, 2013, 04:59:19 PM
I don't think I recognized any actual union voice talent (like Cam Clarke who did like...a shitload of characters from Vanilla->WoTLK) in Cata or Pandaria. Been a while though.
Quote
Christopher Lee is a well known actor from movies above and beyond such as The God Father and Lord of the Rings Trilogy. He voices Shao-Tien Executioner in N [90] The Mogu's Message, Qiang the Merciless in Mogu'shan Vaults, Hu'seng the Gatekeeper in A [90] A Bold Idea/H [90] Decisive Action and Emperor Lei Shen also known as the Thunder King at the start of Tear Down This Wall! and in Throne of Thunder.
For another example.  :awesome_for_real:

Wait, what ?

Really ?  I can only hope I haven't done these quests because I pride myself on Christopher Lee recognition.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on November 13, 2013, 07:06:44 PM
I think there's some voice modulation BS going on with a lot of the mogu characters, or at the very least a lot of snarling.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: calapine on November 13, 2013, 07:11:27 PM
Ha-Ha

Quote
Looking at the truths of a game like WoW is important; and it's important to do it even more so when you have so much invested in it. I have spent the majority of my professional life reporting on it.

Finally an existence more meaningless than my own!

Edit: Even the formatting is breathless:

Quote
Do you know the number of females dwarves I've known in nine years of playing this game constantly? One.

Do you know many fucks I give? None.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on November 13, 2013, 07:20:00 PM
Man, don't make it weird!  :why_so_serious:

It gets weirder. He's also the voice of Mekgineer Thermaplugg, the last boss of Gnomergon.

You love a crazy gnome.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on November 14, 2013, 02:39:17 PM
That was another boss I liked hearing yell at me angrily, at least!

And yeah, calapine, that omg girl dwarvesssss thing was a definite eye-roll trigger for me. Partly because what I saw of the female dwarf didn't actually excite me at all. My two lady dwarves are cuter. :P


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Zetor on November 14, 2013, 02:45:17 PM
All I want is braids floating in the air while casting heals. :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Father mike on November 14, 2013, 03:55:19 PM
Dude must have not really been playing for nine years, because in Vanilla, you HAD to have several Dwarf Priests in a raid because they were the only ones with fear ward.  We had at least 3 in our AQ/Naxx raid.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rendakor on November 14, 2013, 04:07:14 PM
No flying in Draenor until first major patch. Because walking is so much fun.  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on November 14, 2013, 04:09:13 PM
Dude must have not really been playing for nine years, because in Vanilla, you HAD to have several Dwarf Priests in a raid because they were the only ones with fear ward.  We had at least 3 in our AQ/Naxx raid.

His coulda all been dude dwarves, he's marveling over the lady ones.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Nevermore on November 14, 2013, 04:13:55 PM
Wait, there are dwarves with BOOBS?!?  (http://forums.randi.org/images/smilies/jaw.gif)


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rasix on November 14, 2013, 04:18:22 PM
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/82533/yuck.gif)


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on November 14, 2013, 05:31:51 PM
No flying in Draenor until first major patch. Because walking is so much fun.  :oh_i_see:

I'm not seeing a problem with this?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on November 14, 2013, 06:05:02 PM
No flying in Draenor until first major patch. Because walking is so much fun.  :oh_i_see:

I'm not seeing a problem with this?

Me either.  Flying, while cool does not really add anything to the game other than quick travel times.  Flying in wow is not menaingful or even really that much fun, it's a pure convenience.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Soulflame on November 14, 2013, 06:33:24 PM
I'm pretty sure that in Wrath, there was no flying until you could afford cold weather flying.  There may have been a quest line requirement as well to access the magical flying city where the trainer was.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ingmar on November 14, 2013, 06:37:56 PM
Stuff like that lets them control the quest flow, whether or not you approve of that is essentially a matter of taste.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Miasma on November 14, 2013, 06:48:55 PM
In all other expansions flying was enabled once you hit max level and had the cash to pay for it.  If they are saying they just aren't allowing any flying until the first major patch that is a huge change.  Most people will be max level in a couple weeks while the first major patch takes a few months.  Imagine walking from the current pandarian city to your farm or faction quest givers every day, that would be fucking horrible.

I'm all for forcing people to walk while they are levelling but after that you should be free as a bird, literally.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ingmar on November 14, 2013, 06:50:21 PM
Oh I see, I skimmed the post too quickly. Yeah that is pretty weird.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on November 14, 2013, 06:57:26 PM
I don't like that decision at all, but I think it's related to release. It says to me they won't have anything ready for flying, and they are going to patch it in later. Otherwise, why change from the proven formula of max level.

They really want to get this thing out the door if that's the case.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rokal on November 14, 2013, 06:59:34 PM
In all other expansions flying was enabled once you hit max level and had the cash to pay for it.  If they are saying they just aren't allowing any flying until the first major patch that is a huge change.  Most people will be max level in a couple weeks while the first major patch takes a few months.  Imagine walking from the current pandarian city to your farm or faction quest givers every day, that would be fucking horrible.

I'm all for forcing people to walk while they are levelling but after that you should be free as a bird, literally.

This lets them make level cap content like Timeless Isle without having it subject to the same drawbacks that make flying crappy for leveling content. I'm trying to imagine what Timeless Isle would feel like with flying enabled, and the answer is "pretty awful". Once that level cap content isn't especially relevant anymore they enable flying. Makes sense.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Modern Angel on November 14, 2013, 07:16:05 PM
I have a decent handful of friends and acquaintances over at Blizzard these days and, while they're ruthlessly strict about not violating their NDAs, it's no secret that most every one of them feels flying mounts shouldn't have ever been created at all. The implications for PvP on PvP servers, the way it lets you skip content (I know the max level argument), coupled with the Timeless Isle situation mentioned above combine to make it not popular.

You can't put the genie back in the bottle, though.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Typhon on November 14, 2013, 07:23:00 PM
I love flying.  I quit in Northern because I couldn't fly.  Eventually I came back, and still remember how cool it was flying into the last zone (one with the area were you joust) over the mountains.  I almost missed that cause they turned off flying.

Whenever I think about coming back I think about how much I hate having to walk again each patch and I lose any desire to return.

I love flying in these games.  Not my fault they can't figure out how to make it work.  Keep me on the ground in instances, let me fly in the world.

GW2 / RIFT really pissed me off with the, "try to guess if you can jump up here!  Giggle!" invisible wall, "guess what we're thinking! giggle!" fucking crap. Wow, getting hot just thinking about it.

Well, just wanted to provide a counter-point.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Draegan on November 14, 2013, 07:45:20 PM
You're all pussies and cry babies. No flying is probably the best thing they can do for the game and getting that original feeling back.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Mithas on November 14, 2013, 08:19:29 PM
In all other expansions flying was enabled once you hit max level and had the cash to pay for it.  If they are saying they just aren't allowing any flying until the first major patch that is a huge change.  Most people will be max level in a couple weeks while the first major patch takes a few months.  Imagine walking from the current pandarian city to your farm or faction quest givers every day, that would be fucking horrible.

I'm all for forcing people to walk while they are levelling but after that you should be free as a bird, literally.

You could just take a taxi? I've seen no mention of them removing the flight masters or whatever they are. You should only have to walk it once.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Miasma on November 14, 2013, 08:44:37 PM
You're all pussies and cry babies. No flying is probably the best thing they can do for the game and getting that original feeling back.
And get rid of those Plane of Knowledge ports God damn it!  It should take you three hours to walk to Ocean of Tears and if the boat is broken meaning you can't get there at all then fuck you it just adds to the sense of accomplishment when you actually get there!


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rasix on November 14, 2013, 09:06:47 PM
Well, at least WoW didn't really ever try to kill you on the way to something.  So, there's that.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on November 14, 2013, 09:11:51 PM
In all other expansions flying was enabled once you hit max level and had the cash to pay for it.  If they are saying they just aren't allowing any flying until the first major patch that is a huge change.  Most people will be max level in a couple weeks while the first major patch takes a few months.  Imagine walking from the current pandarian city to your farm or faction quest givers every day, that would be fucking horrible.

I'm all for forcing people to walk while they are levelling but after that you should be free as a bird, literally.

You could just take a taxi? I've seen no mention of them removing the flight masters or whatever they are. You should only have to walk it once.

Yeah  :uhrr: no idea why people assume taxis are disappearing.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on November 14, 2013, 09:56:44 PM
You're not skipping content if you've already done it. If you don't want people flying until they get Loremaster in every quest zone on the new world? Fine, I'm willing to do that. But don't say it's about skipping content. The users will jump through hoops so they can get around the world faster, especially in a game that already instances and phases the crap out of the world anyway.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on November 14, 2013, 10:08:30 PM
Well they have recently expanded on their ideas for max level content, saying they want more than just daily quest hubs and actual questlines to be done at max level.  When you think on that, no flying makes more sense.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rendakor on November 14, 2013, 11:15:45 PM
Flying mounts are one of my favorite things about WoW. Having to hit max level is one thing, but waiting months until I can use the mounts I've farmed up/paid real money for is pretty shitty. And honestly after WoW, CoH and EQ2 it sucks playing a game where I can't "bypass content" and instead have to grind through tons of mobs that I don't actually need for my quests.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Margalis on November 15, 2013, 12:22:31 AM
As others have noted, there's being a cheerleader, and then there's ... that. It wraps around from being excited about a new expansion into a creepy sort of desperation that this expansion has just got to turn shit around, that new character models are exactly what was needed to right the ship, and MARK THIS DATE DOWN, EVERYONE, EVERYTHING HAS CHANGED FOREVER.

Any new expansion at this point is just going to be a small speed bump in the road of falling subs. There's realistically nothing they can do at this point to rejuvenate the game. The idea that an expansion that simplifies things while adding few new features is going to give WoW a huge shot in the arm is ridiculous. "The problem with WoW is that it's just too damn complicated!" said nobody.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Zetor on November 15, 2013, 02:17:41 AM
I'm betting the Zandalari trolls will do the time-travel thing with Garrosh and join up with him... because it isn't a real WOW expansion without a troll dungeon/raid, mon!


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: SurfD on November 15, 2013, 05:00:22 AM
I'm betting the Zandalari trolls will do the time-travel thing with Garrosh and join up with him... because it isn't a real WOW expansion without a troll dungeon/raid, mon!
Well, to be fair, it is a pretty safe bet that we have not seen the last of the Zandalari on Azeroth.  I mean, no player character has ever actually seen Zul, and since this guy is supposed to be about as powerful a prophet as Velen, I really doubt we have seen the last of him.  My personal pet theory is that Zul is still out there with a fleet of Zandalari War Boats tied together like a giant raft-city waiting for his next prophetic vision of how to save his people.  We also can't really say for certain if the ruins of Zandalar might still be kicking around somewhere with Rastakhan still clinging to his golden throne along with whoever stayed with him (His actions in that Lorewalker story time session seem a bit odd, so there might be a bit of story to examine there).


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on November 15, 2013, 05:23:00 AM
/troll stuff

Seriously though, I'll buy this xpac on day one if they promise that they'll go at least one expansion without doing something related to trolls.  Hell, they went out of their way to put them into the Burning Crusade; can we at least stay in Draenor this time and take a break?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: K9 on November 15, 2013, 06:28:59 AM
Where were the trolls in Burning Crusade? It's been so long I can't remember.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on November 15, 2013, 06:53:50 AM
Where were the trolls in Burning Crusade? It's been so long I can't remember.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Zul%27Aman


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on November 15, 2013, 07:59:46 AM
I thought the trolls in BC were some of the least offensive actually, just a couple of small side dungeons.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ingmar on November 15, 2013, 12:31:24 PM
Of all the stuff they reuse, the troll stuff is probably the least awful frankly.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on November 15, 2013, 12:45:14 PM
Of all the stuff they reuse, the troll stuff is probably the least awful frankly.

Usually, the exception for me was the 4.1 patch of Cataclysm. We were promised a big raid update, and we got reused troll dungeons.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on November 15, 2013, 01:02:03 PM
I completely forgot about that.  I think that may very well have been the shark jumping moment of wow.  Just blatantly re-using content with barely re-skinned mobs.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ingmar on November 15, 2013, 01:09:06 PM
Was Firelands not in 4.1? I wasn't raiding anymore by then, though, so I wouldn't have cared about a missing raid.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: K9 on November 15, 2013, 01:12:33 PM
Where were the trolls in Burning Crusade? It's been so long I can't remember.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Zul%27Aman

Doh! Of course.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on November 15, 2013, 01:14:19 PM
Was Firelands not in 4.1? I wasn't raiding anymore by then, though, so I wouldn't have cared about a missing raid.

No it was 4.2, and what was worse they had planned it for release of the expansion. The actual Cataclysm xpac released with a redo of BWL, a completely forgettable set of raids with Cho'gall and a wind god, and Baradin Hold, the PVP thing.

It still remains as the worst expansion of all time in WoW. I mean looking back at what we know now, it still stands up as horribly offensive how little content they actually put in the game outside of the world redo.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Nevermore on November 15, 2013, 01:20:32 PM
The world redo, while it made the zones flow better, was so horde-biased that it killed the game for me.  It's the biggest reason why I quit.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Fordel on November 15, 2013, 02:00:27 PM
What, you didn't enjoy being waffle stomped every zone?  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: proudft on November 15, 2013, 02:22:53 PM
It still remains as the worst expansion of all time in WoW. I mean looking back at what we know now, it still stands up as horribly offensive how little content they actually put in the game outside of the world redo.

I actually liked the world redo, but everything else fell flat for me.  So I count the world redo as new content, and for me there was enough 'new' stuff.  But everything else bummed me out.  I went from someone with a BUNCH of level 80s in WOTLK (I honestly don't remember how many, but it was one of each class plus a second warrior, and a horde paladin, what is that, 10? 11?) to leveling three to 85 in Cataclysm and one of those was a dwarf shaman who started from 1 and had fun going through the redone zones (and then fuckin Outlands again).  Another character was in a duo, and the third was just ugh, why am I doing this?  Then I just basically quit.  I didn't even buy Pandaria.

It wasn't any one thing for me.  Part of it was the heroic instances that everyone complains about and part of it was the overly linear quests and part of it was the class homogenization.  I rarely gave a shit about the plot or the world situation or whatever.  Everything else, though, blargh.

When I hit Cataclysm land with my Chinese panda hunter, I dunno what's gonna happen.  Not sure if I have it in me to make it through those zones a fourth time.    Though I did get through Outlands with him, somehow.  At least it's educational now.




Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on November 15, 2013, 02:45:27 PM
The redo may have streamlined things. The downside was it became so linear that you know exactly what's coming, in the exact order, with no ability to skip a lot of it.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ingmar on November 15, 2013, 02:46:35 PM
There was plenty of skipping of the second half of zones because the leveling outpaced the amount of content, actually. It was pretty rare that I wasn't in green or even gray quests if I stayed in a zone the whole time.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Nevermore on November 15, 2013, 02:52:15 PM
The redesign did give us 'The Day that Deathwing Came' and 'Welcome to the Machine' though, so at least there was that.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rasix on November 15, 2013, 02:58:23 PM
There was plenty of skipping of the second half of zones because the leveling outpaced the amount of content, actually. It was pretty rare that I wasn't in green or even gray quests if I stayed in a zone the whole time.

All the way until 50 you could pretty much skip half of the zones completely (horde side).  There were really 2 distinct leveling paths.  

While I enjoyed the redo, my issues were that there was still a lvl 48-52 doughnut hole where there was a lack of good leveling options and some of the redone zones were redone pretty badly.  Ashenvale was a f'ing crime.  It was buggy and they just left a lot of quests in that made no sense given the rest of the redo.  


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on November 15, 2013, 03:30:52 PM
You could skip the remainder of a zone. You couldn't skip to the end of a zone's story though.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rokal on November 15, 2013, 04:00:06 PM
All the way until 50 you could pretty much skip half of the zones completely (horde side).  There were really 2 distinct leveling paths.  

There were really like 5-7 leveling paths since any one 30-35 zone would last you all the way to 40. I broke it down a while back, but it's still staggering how much time they wasted on older zones in Cata.

Between all the heirloom items, a smaller exp curve, and guild buffs, you blaze through 1-60 in a very short amount of playtime. With heirlooms and the guild buff you outlevel zones before you complete all the quests in them, and usually I found myself gaining about 10 levels per zone if I completed it to the quest achievement quota even if that zone was only supposed to support 5 levels.

Looking at this (http://katetarygos.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/levelflow.jpg) leveling chart, as an alliance player there are:

5 1-10 zones
5 10-20 zones
4 20-25 zones
3 25-30 zones
4 30-35 zones
3 35-40 zones
2 40-45 zones
5 45-50 zones
4 50-55 zones
1 55-60 zone (Silithus and Winterspring are still in the game, but they weren't redone)

This may seem like a decent spread, if not a little bulky, until you realize that with heirlooms and the guild buff one of those 20-25 zones will last you until level 30. It's actually more like 7 20-30 zones in function, and the same is true for 30-40, 40-50, and 50-60. By the time you reach level 60 with heirloom items, you'll have completed maybe 6/36 zones if you finish the quests in each, or about 17% of the redone content. There was no reason to remake that many zones, most players probably would have been happy with 2 different zones for each level range, not 3-5 (or 6-10 with this particular leveling speed). But instead of remaking half the number of zones they did and leaving the other half untouched, or putting fewer quests in each zone and expecting players to move to new zones faster, they remade everything (save Winterspring and Silithus)

A+ to the folks over there that approved those years worth of work for redundant zones. Instant-90s in WoD is the final admission at how big of a waste it all really was.

The actual Cataclysm xpac released with a redo of BWL, a completely forgettable set of raids with Cho'gall and a wind god, and Baradin Hold, the PVP thing.

I loved the 3 tier 11 raids, lots of creative fights and they fit well with the Cataclysm promise of tying up old storylines. Breaking them up into shorter zones sort of broke the fantasy of invading this deep lair of these old WoW villains though. The itemization for the wind god raid was awful too. Everything after T11 was awful.

It does make me sort of apprehensive about what they're going to do for WoD. As cool as tying up the Cho'gal and Sinestra storylines was in theory, the reality in raid is that they felt like any other raid boss. You had to read out-of-game resources to really figure out why those characters were cool/interesting. Are they just going to give us a raid against Guldan and assume we already understand why he's supposed to be a cool character? I liked the fresh villains/bosses that MoP used for end-game content because they naturally had to give us context for those characters since they were brand new. Plus it kept the game from getting bogged down with fanservice, where Blizzard writers bask in how cool their characters are.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on November 15, 2013, 04:19:10 PM
Given how many people quit the game, and the lack of LFR at the time, I honestly think you could put the first 3 T11 zones from Cataclysm back in an updated sense, and more than half the game wouldn't have seen them before.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on November 15, 2013, 04:31:18 PM
What, you didn't enjoy being waffle stomped every zone?  :why_so_serious:
The world redo, while it made the zones flow better, was so horde-biased that it killed the game for me.  It's the biggest reason why I quit.

Simond must not be around today.  I was fully expecting another 15 post back and forth about how it was only equalizing the overly pro-alliance game that had come  before.  :awesome_for_real:


Plus it kept the game from getting bogged down with fanservice, where Blizzard writers Metzen basks in how cool their only his characters are.

Fixed it for you.  No, I'm not falling in to the usual snark here.  The Lore Q&A at Blizzcon this year was tragic for multiple reasons and underlined just how true this is.

 1) Metzen is now "Executive Vice President of Storytelling" or something like that.
 2) The questions the Blizz fanboys threw at the panel displayed their utter lack of knowledge about the lore they're currently fucking with.  At one point Metzen said, "I don't know anything about that. Warcraft 1 was done before I started here."
 3) The team defers to Metzen on everything and he's fully immersed in just being Mr. 40-year-old-who-thinks-hes-cool guy.  Meaning no actual thought goes in to decisions, just what would be "awesome" as defined by a 40-year-old man-child.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ingmar on November 15, 2013, 04:56:31 PM
You could skip the remainder of a zone. You couldn't skip to the end of a zone's story though.

And that itself isn't a problem, unless you don't want narratives. That's a personal preference thing, though, not a good/bad design thing. The issue is their zone narratives were, generally speaking, too long for their XP curve.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Modern Angel on November 15, 2013, 05:28:29 PM

A+ to the folks over there that approved those years worth of work for redundant zones. Instant-90s in WoD is the final admission at how big of a waste it all really was.


This is such an odd sentiment to me. Everyone wants options in how they play. People who have been around for a long time want to skip things on that reroll or alt when the class balance deck gets shuffled. So now you have options. The content is still there. You can level through it or you can level to 90. Or both! The notion that's a waste is just beyond me. It's not an admission of anything, other than maybe that everyone in the MMO game realizing that leveling at all is starting to lose its luster. And if it's that, there's no real way for them to reverse engineer it into the game at this point. Or EQ2 or Rift or LOTRO, who are doing similar things.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rokal on November 15, 2013, 05:56:10 PM
This is such an odd sentiment to me. Everyone wants options in how they play. People who have been around for a long time want to skip things on that reroll or alt when the class balance deck gets shuffled. So now you have options. The content is still there. You can level through it or you can level to 90. Or both! The notion that's a waste is just beyond me. It's not an admission of anything, other than maybe that everyone in the MMO game realizing that leveling at all is starting to lose its luster. And if it's that, there's no real way for them to reverse engineer it into the game at this point. Or EQ2 or Rift or LOTRO, who are doing similar things.

Extra options are great, but come at the expense of something else. I might like the option for extra hair styles on all the races in the game, but maybe not at the expense of a new race or new art assets somewhere else. In the case of the leveling content in Cata, the excessively-revamped 1-60 zones came at the expense of level-cap content, the expansion being released on time, and the patch content being released at a reasonable rate with reasonable amounts of content (they've said that the revamped 1-60 took them a lot longer than they expected, which also impacted how much work they had done on patch content when Cata launched).  Having so many options while leveling is neat, but not worth the cost IMO. They essentially revamped 3-5x as many zones as they needed to given the leveling curve of the game. Seemingly it wasn't worth the cost for them either since they've conceded to just letting new/returning players skip the leveling content options they worked so hard on.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on November 15, 2013, 07:09:15 PM
If every character could pop up to 90 regardless, maybe, but it's just one character on the entire account, right? Otherwise I think it's only an admission of "maybe people will be more willing to give this another look if they can just jump into the new shit with a character right away."


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on November 15, 2013, 07:27:58 PM
I don't think the revamp can be construed as anything but a waste of time now, though. Not only are they letting people skip the content with a main, but with all the xp enhancements, I don't think there's a way you can make it through an entire zone anymore without wasting time on underleveled quests.

I mean if the back end of every zone is unnecessary now, and the fact there's several of those zones, the amount of manhours that could have actually gone into keeping customers with current content is just mind-boggling.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Tannhauser on November 16, 2013, 04:41:16 AM
That was my big annoyance with Cata.  They revamped the zones into theme parks. OK, some of them were pretty good.  But you out-level the zone before the 'ride' is over.  I'm not OCD, but I have a problem with that.  Your 'ride' isn't fun enough to keep me in a grayed out zone.

At this point, they need to go f2p.  Their content, IMO, isn't good enough for sub anymore.  Just use the STO model, not the LOTRO one.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on November 16, 2013, 05:11:42 AM
As others have noted, there's being a cheerleader, and then there's ... that. It wraps around from being excited about a new expansion into a creepy sort of desperation that this expansion has just got to turn shit around, that new character models are exactly what was needed to right the ship, and MARK THIS DATE DOWN, EVERYONE, EVERYTHING HAS CHANGED FOREVER.

Any new expansion at this point is just going to be a small speed bump in the road of falling subs. There's realistically nothing they can do at this point to rejuvenate the game. The idea that an expansion that simplifies things while adding few new features is going to give WoW a huge shot in the arm is ridiculous. "The problem with WoW is that it's just too damn complicated!" said nobody.
Actually the subs decline is pretty much bottoming out: http://www.tomshardware.com/news/blizzard-free-to-play-f2p-mmorpg-world-of-warcraft,25030.html
Quote
The news arrives after the company reported that the number of subscribers dropped 100,000 in 3Q 2013 to 7.6 million. That's good news despite the loss, as the MMORPG shed a whopping 1.3 million subscribers in the first quarter, followed by 600,000 subscribers in the second quarter.

That was my big annoyance with Cata.  They revamped the zones into theme parks. OK, some of them were pretty good.  But you out-level the zone before the 'ride' is over.  I'm not OCD, but I have a problem with that.  Your 'ride' isn't fun enough to keep me in a grayed out zone.

At this point, they need to go f2p.  Their content, IMO, isn't good enough for sub anymore.  Just use the STO model, not the LOTRO one.
"Welp, we're down to only seven and a half million paying subscribers. Time to go F2P!" said nobody ever.  :awesome_for_real:

Simond must not be around today.  I was fully expecting another 15 post back and forth about how it was only equalizing the overly pro-alliance game that had come  before.  :awesome_for_real:
Well as you said it I don't really need to, do I?  :grin:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: calapine on November 16, 2013, 06:37:26 AM
All this whining her makes me wonder if they'll come up with "classic" servers...

Miss the good old times? Want to see how it all started? Subscribe again and join our new vanilla servers!


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Malakili on November 16, 2013, 07:12:59 AM
All this whining her makes me wonder if they'll come up with "classic" servers...

Miss the good old times? Want to see how it all started? Subscribe again and join our new vanilla servers!

Oh how I pine for the days of being an innervation and combat res bot.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on November 16, 2013, 07:26:16 AM
All this whining her makes me wonder if they'll come up with "classic" servers...

Miss the good old times? Want to see how it all started? Subscribe again and join our new vanilla servers!

Oh how I pine for the days of being an innervation and combat res bot.

Or having to be a holy priest because both other specs were completely worthless.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rendakor on November 16, 2013, 08:04:40 AM
I'd consider going back if they put in an LK-era server.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Nevermore on November 16, 2013, 09:01:16 AM
Lich King was the high water mark, yes.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on November 16, 2013, 09:58:45 AM
Or having to have a Dwarf priest for fear ward.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Margalis on November 16, 2013, 10:24:06 AM
Actually the subs decline is pretty much bottoming out: http://www.tomshardware.com/news/blizzard-free-to-play-f2p-mmorpg-world-of-warcraft,25030.html

Some of those "subs" come from the way Blizzard recognizes subs in Asia - anyone who plays once in a 30 day period in an internet cafe counts as a "sub." I would guess that when subs drop they drop more due to losing actual subscribers than internet cafe players.

WoW could have zero actual subscribers and still recognize millions of subs. I suspect their sub numbers are highly propped up by those internet cafe players and that tracking actual paying subscriptions would look significantly more dire.

Quote
Welp, we're down to only seven and a half million paying subscribers.

They don't have 7.5 million paying subscribers. Nobody knows how many they have, but the number is likely far less than that.



Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on November 16, 2013, 10:35:20 AM
Reminds of a Daniel Tosh joke about Brett Favre.

http://www.comedycentral.com/video-clips/7o5fig/stand-up-daniel-tosh--brett-favre-retirement (http://www.comedycentral.com/video-clips/7o5fig/stand-up-daniel-tosh--brett-favre-retirement)

Let's say wow is down to a 'mere' 2mil, should they go F2P then? Their answer is likely "lol nope, still good"


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on November 16, 2013, 10:38:20 AM
This last quarter was one of the worst they've had in a while. It's still not bad by video game standards, but their profit is about 25% of what it was in Q3 2012.

In Q3, the online revenue breakdown has gone from non-GAAP (non adjusted) 1.46B in 2011, to 1.05B in 2012, to 0.88B in 2013. Considering that also includes their sub numbers for other games like Call of Duty? That's a large falloff.

It's bad for ATVI because WoW has essentially been keeping the company afloat in between CoD releases. Considering they just bought out Vivendi, and put $2.2B of debt on the books as a result, it's not good news if subs fall to 2M. At all.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on November 16, 2013, 11:23:31 AM
Take a look at those online 2012 & 2013 numbers again, Paelos.  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Fabricated on November 16, 2013, 11:41:37 AM
Point is that WoW probably could've still had like 6-7 million subs but they put the B-Team on WoW to go make apparently a shitty secret game they had to can.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on November 16, 2013, 12:26:49 PM
And that is the lulziest thing of all.

I still would've loved to hear that conversation go down. "Hey guys.. know how you're our rockstars.  Yeah, you produced shit that isn't viable in today's market, back to WoW"

"But we let that flounder because this was IT"

"Well, now it's shit.  Sorry, bye!"


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on November 16, 2013, 01:41:14 PM
Take a look at those online 2012 & 2013 numbers again, Paelos.  :oh_i_see:

I don't see what you mean. I'm referring to the Shareholder Summary Report for Q3 (http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/ACTI/2793687460x0x704806/3381e7b8-505d-4e09-a303-b5a9b1bd5952/01.10%20Q3%20Summary%2011-6-13%2011am2.pdf) which details the online subscription revenue platform.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Kail on November 16, 2013, 05:14:23 PM
I don't think the revamp can be construed as anything but a waste of time now, though. Not only are they letting people skip the content with a main, but with all the xp enhancements, I don't think there's a way you can make it through an entire zone anymore without wasting time on underleveled quests.

I mean if the back end of every zone is unnecessary now, and the fact there's several of those zones, the amount of manhours that could have actually gone into keeping customers with current content is just mind-boggling.

Speaking selfishly, the revamped leveling content was the most fun I had in Cataclysm.

And I suspect that, unless they flat out allow anyone to roll as may level 90s as they want with no restrictions, more people will be seeing the revamped low level content than will be, say, grinding Firelands dailies or running level 85 Raids.  Not that the revamped content is flawless or anything, but it's WAY better than the vanilla quests were.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on November 16, 2013, 05:49:09 PM
Take a look at those online 2012 & 2013 numbers again, Paelos.  :oh_i_see:

I don't see what you mean. I'm referring to the Shareholder Summary Report for Q3 (http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/ACTI/2793687460x0x704806/3381e7b8-505d-4e09-a303-b5a9b1bd5952/01.10%20Q3%20Summary%2011-6-13%2011am2.pdf) which details the online subscription revenue platform.
http://investor.activision.com/results.cfm

Q3 2012 subscription/licensing/etc. income: 880m
Q3 2013 subscription (etc) income: 1,016m


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Miasma on November 16, 2013, 08:17:02 PM
Uhh none of this WoW shit matters moneywise to them since Titan is about to go beta oh wait.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Draegan on November 16, 2013, 09:17:55 PM
I don't see how you can be a grown man and feel cool with being a WOW fanboy this day and age.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Kail on November 16, 2013, 09:21:53 PM
I don't see how you can be a grown man and feel cool with being a WOW fanboy this day and age.

I know, it's almost like World of Warcraft won't make you cool AT ALL anymore!


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on November 16, 2013, 11:04:11 PM
Take a look at those online 2012 & 2013 numbers again, Paelos.  :oh_i_see:

I don't see what you mean. I'm referring to the Shareholder Summary Report for Q3 (http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/ACTI/2793687460x0x704806/3381e7b8-505d-4e09-a303-b5a9b1bd5952/01.10%20Q3%20Summary%2011-6-13%2011am2.pdf) which details the online subscription revenue platform.
http://investor.activision.com/results.cfm

Q3 2012 subscription/licensing/etc. income: 880m
Q3 2013 subscription (etc) income: 1,016m

That's the difference between GAAP and non-GAAP. The one you're linking is the GAAP financials with all the income adjustments (ie someone paying for 6 months gets counted in every month, even though the money is collected in the prior year). Non-GAAP is the revenue sans deferrals.

Also just comparing Q3 (those three months) to the prior Q3? Blizzard revenues specifically fell by $132M or 32%.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on November 16, 2013, 11:13:30 PM
And I suspect that, unless they flat out allow anyone to roll as may level 90s as they want with no restrictions, more people will be seeing the revamped low level content than will be, say, grinding Firelands dailies or running level 85 Raids.  Not that the revamped content is flawless or anything, but it's WAY better than the vanilla quests were.

I don't disagree that the layout is much better than vanilla. But let's also consider the UI improvements that went into this as well. The quest tracking, the UI on the map, and the directions all were improved along with the zones themselves. Would they just have been better off by reworking a few zones instead of all zones, adding those UI features, and then actually spending time on making/balancing newer content? Or without the mass exodus of subs, do we never see features like LFR and flex mode because people just keep buying in. We'll never know I suppose.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on November 17, 2013, 04:47:00 AM
I don't see how you can be a grown man and feel cool with being a WOW fanboy this day and age.
How's the MMO fansite business going, Draegan?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ironwood on November 17, 2013, 06:13:13 AM
I don't see how you can be a grown man and feel cool with being a WOW fanboy this day and age.

Member of the <I spent too much money on HEX> fanclub.


Wow.  Really.  Shush.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on November 17, 2013, 09:14:31 AM
Draegan being a dick isn't really new or interesting.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ironwood on November 17, 2013, 09:46:34 AM
I don't mind being a dick, I mind it when a bloke is balls deep in another bloke and screaming 'Gays are awful'.

Excuse me, I am being arrested by the bad analogy police.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on November 17, 2013, 09:50:48 AM
I always enjoy an appropriate use of 'balls deep'


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Draegan on November 17, 2013, 11:12:37 PM
I don't see how you can be a grown man and feel cool with being a WOW fanboy this day and age.
How's the MMO fansite business going, Draegan?

Going quite well thank you.

The rest of you taking me seriously is entertaining to say the least. And Paelos? Anyone on this site not being a dick is news worthy.  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ironwood on November 18, 2013, 03:44:36 AM
I don't know about that.  The Mods are always nice and pleasant and helpful.

Be fair.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Fabricated on November 18, 2013, 06:00:54 PM
Except me. I'm not. :vv:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on November 18, 2013, 06:42:56 PM
Nah you're nice too. Admit it.  :grin:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Kitsune on November 18, 2013, 11:02:53 PM
And then Paelos was banned in an explosion of raw irony.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on November 21, 2013, 01:15:46 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/nGNKO8p.jpg)


(http://i.imgur.com/FO662ES.jpg)

From http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCH4XPhI-yI


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Nonentity on November 21, 2013, 05:09:31 PM
if it means anything when I was at Blizzcon it was super obvious that Metzen was high out of his mind the entire time


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ingmar on November 21, 2013, 05:37:20 PM
if it means anything when I was at Blizzcon it was super obvious that Metzen was high out of his mind the entire time

So like any Blizzcon then.  :why_so_serious:

There was one year where he had the most obvious case of cottonmouth in the history of the universe.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Maledict on November 21, 2013, 06:43:17 PM
So spines, shoulders and legs rotted through but tits, ass and lips perfect and pert.

Somethings never change.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on November 21, 2013, 06:45:11 PM
So spines, shoulders and legs rotted through but tits, ass and lips perfect and pert.

Somethings never change.

Glad I wasn't the only one who immediately noticed that. Undead asses you can bounce a silver off of.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on November 21, 2013, 07:31:24 PM
The bra was the first thing that made me go  :uhrr: because that's not ... that's not how bras work.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Nevermore on November 21, 2013, 07:45:08 PM
Clearly there are hooks on her exposed spine.  :roll:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on November 21, 2013, 08:05:14 PM
The bra was the first thing that made me go  :uhrr: because that's not ... that's not how bras work.

Actually the bra has bolts on the back if you look closely.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: angry.bob on November 21, 2013, 10:48:35 PM
So spines, shoulders and legs rotted through but tits, ass and lips perfect and pert.

Sorry, but those are high wear areas of the body. Granted, the inside portion of the knee and elbow aren't but if they added the sacrum to the worn through bits you'd have pretty much all the spots that the elderly and bedridden people can have big problems with ulcers and friction.

Not saying they didn't make them sexualized but they're not nearly as off base with missing skin as you'd think.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: SurfD on November 22, 2013, 01:54:06 AM
So spines, shoulders and legs rotted through but tits, ass and lips perfect and pert.

Somethings never change.

Glad I wasn't the only one who immediately noticed that. Undead asses you can bounce a silver off of.
Undead Female - "Of course they are real.  They're not mine, but they're real!"


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: SurfD on November 22, 2013, 03:17:03 AM
Shamelessly stolen from MMO Champ: Side by side comparisons of New VS Old models

(http://i40.tinypic.com/9j2dqg.jpg)
(http://i44.tinypic.com/xmuy3l.jpg)

It's actually pretty impressive how much of a difference just changing the textures makes.  Like in the definition shown with the ribs / neck area.  Plus the Hair looks amazing.

Still, holy shit, Dat Ass......


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lt.Dan on November 22, 2013, 05:31:26 AM
From a forum post:
Seriously though, watching them roll out 10 main characters and having them all be men is disappointing. Maybe that works for the testosterone filled 18-24 male age group, but please remember that many of your players are women and men who appreciate a diversified story with actual female characters. Blizzard has always done a fair job of this, so the 10 main characters highlighted being all male felt very 2003 and out of touch for 2013. And frankly it's just boring to have the whole expansion be a sausage-festival.

Blizzard reply:
Valid concern and I can address that only a little right now, but it's worth noting that there are plans for some female characters as well. Historically the clan chiefs are all male, so I can see how with the announcement video that it looks very male heavy. But, there will be female characters that will have their time as well. I'm not going to say 50/50 or equal time since I'm not privy to the specifics right now and wouldn't want to spoil anything anyway, but I can say that the designers are working on it. I don't know how much was covered by Applecidermage when she spoke with quest designer Helen Cheng but from speaking to her (and she's someone that's been critical of this herself), she seemed pretty happy about what she's heard.

 :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on November 22, 2013, 08:39:37 AM
Metzen can't write a female character. This is pretty well established.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Zetor on November 22, 2013, 08:51:55 AM
Metzen can't write a female character. This is pretty well established.
To be fair, Metzen can't write like... anything.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Mithas on November 22, 2013, 09:12:17 AM
It's not like I don't agree with the lack of good female characters, but why is this suddenly an issue? How many prominent female characters are there in WoW?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Modern Angel on November 22, 2013, 09:29:24 AM
It's not like I don't agree with the lack of good female characters, but why is this suddenly an issue? How many prominent female characters are there in WoW?

It's not suddenly an issue. It's suddenly that it's vocalized enough that you're hearing it.

Or: water doesn't boil the second you turn the heat on high.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Miasma on November 22, 2013, 09:38:36 AM
It's not like I don't agree with the lack of good female characters, but why is this suddenly an issue? How many prominent female characters are there in WoW?
A pretty small fraction compared to the males, they did feature Jaina Proudmoore a fair bit last expansion on the alliance side.  Of course they also turned her from a sane, level headed person who could rise above petty jingoism unlike all the stupid men into a semi psychotic bitch killing anyone who gets in her way.

Last expansion was Thrall's girlfriend who was basically just playing a loyal wife/baby maker...

I would resub for an expansion that was based around Sylvanas redeeming herself, that Metzen has no role in.  Judging by the way they are reusing old content maybe that will be the next expansion where alternate outland leads to alternate Northrend and the Lich King needs to be defeated, again.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Modern Angel on November 22, 2013, 09:49:12 AM
 Judging by the way they are reusing old content maybe that will be the next expansion where alternate outland leads to alternate Northrend and the Lich King needs to be defeated, again.

This would be the most hilarious and fitting way for WoW to proceed: Metzen unable to move beyond his love affair with his terrible, one-dimensional creations.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on November 22, 2013, 09:54:05 AM
At the end of the expansion, the Alt-Draenor Dark Portal jumps from linking to Azeroth-prime to Alt-Azeroth...where, as the Horde didn't invade, the Burning Legion used Plan B: The Scourge.

Now join up with King Arthas, Prince Kael'Thas (and his loyal Ranger-General Sylvanas Windrunner) and Falstad Wildhammer, Thane of the Wildhammer dwarves as they frantically scramble to defend the last remaning kingdoms of the living from the rampant Scourge ruled by Lich King Anduin Lothar, then aid in the counter-attack besieging the tomb-city of Ironforge and the catacombs beneath the ruins of Stormwind, known only as The Undercity.


(There is so much more potential in an alt-history Azeroth)


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on November 22, 2013, 02:53:16 PM
It's not like I don't agree with the lack of good female characters, but why is this suddenly an issue? How many prominent female characters are there in WoW?

It's not suddenly an issue. It's suddenly that it's vocalized enough that you're hearing it.

Or: water doesn't boil the second you turn the heat on high.

Yep. People have been complaining about this almost as long as I can remember some way or another (mostly about how Tyrande got turned from an assertive, if stupid, leader into a nonentity in the early days, if I remember right). And it's one of those things where it might not bother someone at first (like in Vanilla, you could rationalize it that well, there weren't that many women characters to start with, and they need to lay the This Is Warcraft foundation first) but over time gets more obvious, more annoying, and harder to excuse (they've had plenty of time to up the decent female character count and they still keep not doing it).

To be fair, it bothers me less in WoW because, as Zetor said, Metzen can't write anything.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ingmar on November 22, 2013, 03:02:52 PM
And they still stubbornly believe they only need the one "writer."


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Mithas on November 22, 2013, 03:04:20 PM
I don't think a lot of people play for the lore, but it REALLY could use a few decent writers.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Nevermore on November 22, 2013, 03:12:45 PM
Lore was something I tried to like in the game, and it wasn't too bad through Wrath.  I mean yeah, it still had the Metzen Mary Sue problems, but not nearly as bad as what's happened from Cataclysm on.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Hutch on November 22, 2013, 03:38:21 PM
Green Jesus and the Dragon Lazer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7Wi1CIhKTg)


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on November 22, 2013, 04:57:21 PM
It's not like I don't agree with the lack of good female characters, but why is this suddenly an issue? How many prominent female characters are there in WoW?

It's not suddenly an issue. It's suddenly that it's vocalized enough that you're hearing it.

Or: water doesn't boil the second you turn the heat on high.

Yep. People have been complaining about this almost as long as I can remember some way or another (mostly about how Tyrande got turned from an assertive, if stupid, leader into a nonentity in the early days, if I remember right). And it's one of those things where it might not bother someone at first (like in Vanilla, you could rationalize it that well, there weren't that many women characters to start with, and they need to lay the This Is Warcraft foundation first) but over time gets more obvious, more annoying, and harder to excuse (they've had plenty of time to up the decent female character count and they still keep not doing it).

To be fair, it bothers me less in WoW because, as Zetor said, Metzen can't write anything.

What has always amused me is this;  Point to ONE known female at Blizzard. Now point to two.  Can you make it to three?  How many of those have you seen at a Blizzcon, ever, or on panels, ever?

It should be surprising to nobody that this company (or most game companies) can't write or maintain realistic females.  It suffers from manchild woman-hater club more than any profession save construction and even that one is starting to clean itself up.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Nevermore on November 22, 2013, 05:10:49 PM
One doesn't have to be surprised about something that bothers them to speak out against it.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on November 22, 2013, 05:45:04 PM
Yeah, I doubt anyone going rabblerabble is surprised. Just sick of being expected to put up with it. And hey ... it shouldn't surprise anyone that people are out of patience for it.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on November 22, 2013, 11:12:28 PM
I'm for anything that gets Metzen fired or off the project.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Setanta on November 22, 2013, 11:34:37 PM

What has always amused me is this;  Point to ONE known female at Blizzard. Now point to two.  Can you make it to three?  How many of those have you seen at a Blizzcon, ever, or on panels, ever?

Caydiem. Hunter representative. She was possibly the only Blizzard rep that was passionate about representing hunters in their god-awful days.

They fired promoted her


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Samprimary on December 09, 2013, 11:58:24 AM
It should be surprising to nobody that this company (or most game companies) can't write or maintain realistic females.  It suffers from manchild woman-hater club more than any profession save construction and even that one is starting to clean itself up.

Peter: Let me ask you something. When you're writing an x-pac at work and does someone ever make Tyrande Whisperwind kind of useless lore-candy for a male character, just .. you know, shunt her to the background for the sake of a male character's progression?

Lawrence: No. No, man. Shit, no. Man. I believe you'd get your ass kicked, writin' somethin' like that, man.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on January 17, 2014, 12:50:27 PM
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/12426481

Quote
It’s the New Year, and 2014 is going to be a big one for World of Warcraft. This November marks the game’s 10-year anniversary and the 20-year anniversary of the entire Warcraft series. We’re looking forward to celebrating these milestones with everyone, but in the meantime, we’ve got a few Warlords of Draenor–related updates to share.

Preparing for Battle
At BlizzCon, we laid out our plans to send you into battle against some of the biggest and baddest enemies in Warcraft history. While the Iron Horde gears up for war on Draenor, back here on earth we’re making preparations for the expansion’s upcoming closed beta test. If you’d like to be considered, now’s a great time to make sure you’re opted in to Warcraft betas and that the hardware specs in your Beta Profile are up to date. (Full instructions can be found here.)

Report from the Front Lines
From the outset, players will find themselves hurled into a chaotic conflict with the Iron Horde at a new Dark Portal on Draenor. The situation for Azeroth is grim, and the war effort needs heroes—from new recruits to retired champions to warriors still tending wounds earned at the Siege of Orgrimmar. To get everyone straight to the action, when you buy the expansion, it will come with a boost to level 90 for one character on your WoW account. We’re getting ready to test the functionality for that on the PTR, and we wanted to provide a quick update on how it will work with the upcoming expansion presales.

Warlords of Draenor will be available for pre-purchase digitally Soon™, and we’re once again planning to have standard digital and Digital Deluxe versions (along with a physical Collector’s Edition—more on that at a later date). This time, if you pre-purchase the Digital Deluxe edition you’ll get your exclusive World of Warcraft pet and mount right away, allowing you to bring a little bit of Draenor past into Azeroth present.

In addition, when you pre-purchase either digital version, we’re going to grant you your level-90 boost at the time of pre-purchase. That’s a little different from the plan we laid out at BlizzCon, but based on the feedback, it’s obvious that many of you would like the chance to get acquainted with a new class before heading into the expansion. This will also give more players the opportunity to experience the current end-game content and the events leading up to Garrosh’s exodus to Draenor. Maybe you’ll get your Legendary cloak from Wrathion and level 90–100 Heirloom weapon in the process.

Bolster the Ranks
We’ve also heard feedback from players that they’d be interested in boosting multiple characters to 90, including alts they play with friends on other factions and realms. We’ve been evaluating ways to make that possible without having players go through roundabout methods (such as purchasing multiple boxes and performing multiple character transfers), and in the near future we’ll be testing out a feature that gives you the option to purchase a character upgrade directly. We’ll have more information to share later—including details on our character-upgrade plans for Asian regions where players don’t buy expansion boxes—but you’ll start seeing pieces of the process soon on the PTR, so keep an eye out.

We’re looking forward to the closed beta test, and we’re excited we’re able to give players their character boost immediately upon pre-purchasing—hopefully that will help tide you over while you’re waiting for the epic battle for Draenor to begin. Stay tuned for more information on presales and our beta plans, and we hope you’ll join in and help us test this stuff out when it hits the PTR.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on January 17, 2014, 12:56:58 PM
They managed to tell us all about monetization of the game, and almost nothing about the xpac itself.

That bodes well...


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Nonentity on January 17, 2014, 01:00:13 PM

What has always amused me is this;  Point to ONE known female at Blizzard. Now point to two.  Can you make it to three?  How many of those have you seen at a Blizzcon, ever, or on panels, ever?

Caydiem. Hunter representative. She was possibly the only Blizzard rep that was passionate about representing hunters in their god-awful days.

They fired promoted her

Caydiem works on Wildstar now, fwiw.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on January 17, 2014, 01:53:27 PM
They managed to tell us all about monetization of the game, and almost nothing about the xpac itself.

That bodes well...
(http://i.minus.com/ibl1Xqt3WItykH.jpg)


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rokal on January 17, 2014, 03:47:45 PM
They managed to tell us all about monetization of the game, and almost nothing about the xpac itself.

That bodes well...

Well, they told us the digital pre-orders for the xpac would give us instant free 90s and mounts/pets, so that seems like a pretty substantial announcement. Sucks if you planned to buy a physical CE, but I guess making digital purchases where Blizzard gets a much larger slice of the pie more appealing is the point.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ironwood on January 17, 2014, 04:04:18 PM
Heheheheh.   :grin:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Tannhauser on January 17, 2014, 04:22:08 PM
"As soon as we can figure out how to gouge you to raise each toon to 90 to skip our BS content we'll get back to you."


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Setanta on January 17, 2014, 08:53:56 PM
Am I reading this right? In Eve you pay a subscription to level while not playing the game. In WoW you pay a subscription and a fee to level while not playing the game.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Miasma on January 17, 2014, 09:44:23 PM
"As soon as we can figure out how to gouge you to raise each toon to 90 to skip our BS content we'll get back to you."
They have figured it out, they just don't know how much to charge for it...

Am I reading this right? In Eve you pay a subscription to level while not playing the game. In WoW you pay a subscription and a fee to level while not playing the game.
I guess it could be compared to EvE if ccp started selling one million skillpoint booster packs for twenty bucks a pop.  Actually wow, why aren't they doing that?  I imagine the legal buying/selling of pilots is enough.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on January 18, 2014, 04:45:00 AM
Looks like Blizzard may be testing the waters of paid character boosts to 90:

http://www.polygon.com/2013/12/31/5261372/world-of-warcraft-survey-asks-about-character-upgrades-annual-passes

They need to do something. The thought of having to drag another character to 90 makes me ill.
Anyone who didn't see this coming after the single freebie announced for WoD is dumb as hell.

Awful lot of dumb people ITT.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on January 23, 2014, 02:46:01 PM
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/12426480/artcraft-a-first-look-1-23-2014

(http://i.imgur.com/lT63csZ.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/0WQcgPL.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/GD3gBKA.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/3zR49W4.jpg)


Quote
Hi, I’m Chris Robinson, senior art director of World of Warcraft, and this is the first in a series of articles we're creating to bring you all closer to the development of the player character model revamps we announced at BlizzCon. In this series, we'll give you an inside look at the process we go through to do one of these revamps, discuss the kinds of art issues we're addressing with the new models, and provide a bit of insight our future plans for their continued polish.

We're happy to begin our series by sharing a first look at where we're at with the Human female. While future articles won’t always be about revealing a new model, we thought this would be a great introduction to the approach we take for every one of these redesigns.

We’re looking at these model revamps as a sort of “spiritual update” to the art content that currently exists in-game—except we’re completely redoing them from scratch. That includes the base model, skin tone variations, customization options (e.g. wrinkles, scars, moles, earrings, etc.), hairstyles, and any skin variations for NPCs you see out in the world, like Iron Dwarves or Leper Gnomes. We’re pretty excited about some of the ideas you've given us for new customization and skin options you’d like to see, but our first goal—which is already a monumental endeavor—is to make sure that the visual content that currently exists is brought up to or surpasses the level of quality you see in current boss models, the Pandaren, and central NPCs like the new Vol’jin model.

With the revamp, we’re completely overhauling every aspect of the player models, but our goal is to do so while retaining the core look and feel that has always made them your character. We'll feel like we've succeeded if you see the updated version of your character and it still feels like you’re looking at the character you’ve been playing for the past however many years—only someone has finally focused a lens.

To achieve this, we’re increasing the polygon count significantly (in some cases going from less than 1,000 to over 5,000), more than doubling the texture resolution, increasing bone count significantly to support updated animation and facial expression, and retouching nearly every animation for all of the characters. For animation alone, that’s roughly 180 animations per character, times 10 races in both male and female variants, equaling approximately 3,600 animations. We’re also incorporating the rigging technology we introduced with the Pandaren into every character to provide better posing, smoother animation, and the ability to pull off some fantastic facial expressions. In the weeks and months ahead, we’re going to be bringing you in for a closer look at some of the processes, challenges, and results of this revamp process.

What you’re looking at here for the Human female is a single face option and a single skin tone on the base model without any animation or posing. When developing the base model we keep the expression on the face as devoid of emotion or expression as possible, as that allows our animators a greater range of motion when they start posing and morphing the face into different expressions. If we were to put any amount of expression—even a slight smile or mildly angry eyebrows—in the base model, that would carry through to every animation, and we'd end up with some very confused-looking characters.

Joe Keller is a senior character artist on our team and was responsible for the lion’s share of modeling and texturing the Human female. Here's what he had this to say about this challenge:

“Everyone is pretty familiar with the Human character models in WoW, but working on these updates gives us a chance to embellish and fill in the blanks. For the Human female this meant we could give her more muscle definition and personality in the face while still staying true to the overall look and spirit of the original. Hopefully this will also help show her as more of the capable fighter that she is.”
This process has been a welcome challenge for all of us on the World of Warcraft art team. We’ve all wanted to address the player models and bring them up to a more current fidelity for some time now, and we’re as excited as you are to get these models into the game. We hope you’ll enjoy this series as we invite you to meet the team and see more on our development process.

Thanks so much, and see you next time.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Wizgar on January 23, 2014, 03:04:43 PM
I'll say it again just because: They could remodel everything except my character's head into an untextured skeleton and it would probably take me six months to notice. I guess NPCs will look nicer. The ones not wearing too much armor, that is. If you zoom in enough to care how many polygons go into their hair or whatever.

Who am I kidding? What a complete waste of resources. No new race, no new class, but they had time for this? Jesus.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Hawkbit on January 23, 2014, 05:00:23 PM
The reduction in hip size should make gaming news.  Let's see if it does.

The old models bordered on almost looking like normal, attractive women.  The new ones look like Disney princesses. 


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Fordel on January 23, 2014, 05:21:59 PM
The proportions are identical, you're being fooled by the posing.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on January 23, 2014, 05:33:24 PM
Quote
What you’re looking at here for the Human female is a single face option and a single skin tone on the base model without any animation or posing. When developing the base model we keep the expression on the face as devoid of emotion or expression as possible, as that allows our animators a greater range of motion when they start posing and morphing the face into different expressions. If we were to put any amount of expression—even a slight smile or mildly angry eyebrows—in the base model, that would carry through to every animation, and we'd end up with some very confused-looking characters.

They might want to take a second look at that lady up there, then. She is totally smiling.

That said, it's a good looking model and I'm glad they mostly kept the same body type for her. Also no matter how tarted up tech-wise they make that one style with the bangs, it always looks stupid. So that's nice too!


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on January 23, 2014, 05:38:23 PM
I'll say it again just because: They could remodel everything except my character's head into an untextured skeleton and it would probably take me six months to notice. I guess NPCs will look nicer. The ones not wearing too much armor, that is. If you zoom in enough to care how many polygons go into their hair or whatever.

Who am I kidding? What a complete waste of resources. No new race, no new class, but they had time for this? Jesus.
(http://i.minus.com/iIjXro07RWO7v.gif)


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Miasma on January 23, 2014, 05:42:58 PM
I really hope there is an eye size slider so things can be brought down below "anime saucer plates".


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Fordel on January 23, 2014, 05:53:53 PM
There will be no sliders.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on January 23, 2014, 07:24:14 PM
I really hope there is an eye size slider so things can be brought down below "anime saucer plates".

Yeah that's the part that gets me.  The eyes were that big on the original model because the texture resolution was lower.  They can tone it down a bit now.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ingmar on January 23, 2014, 07:25:26 PM
Boy are you guys going to hate Wildstar's models.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on January 23, 2014, 07:29:01 PM
Boy are you guys going to hate Wildstar's models.

Heh yep.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on January 23, 2014, 07:47:20 PM
Boy are you guys going to hate Wildstar's models.

Took a look.  No, because they followed the basic rules of proportions for faces so even though things are oversized they don't look as ridiculous.



Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on January 23, 2014, 09:10:19 PM
Wilderstar models have sliders, makes a big difference.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on January 24, 2014, 12:27:32 AM
You can never get away from GIGANTIC CRACKED OUT EYES regardless of the sliders, though.

Excuse me while I lol that these models are "out of proportion" and "anime-like" in the eye region, but Wildstar's get a pass. I like Wildstar's art style fine, mind you, but c'mon.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ingmar on January 24, 2014, 12:36:45 AM
Boy are you guys going to hate Wildstar's models.

Took a look.  No, because they followed the basic rules of proportions for faces so even though things are oversized they don't look as ridiculous.



haha what


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on February 06, 2014, 07:08:33 PM
http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20140206006514/en#.UvQKabR6_-l

Quote
As of December 31, 2013, Blizzard Entertainment’s World of Warcraft remains the #1 subscription-based MMORPG, with approximately 7.8 million subscribers.
That's up 200k, for those keeping score. At the end of an expansion cycle.
Oh, and D3 has sold another million boxes as well.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rendakor on February 06, 2014, 07:21:11 PM
Were those D3 boxes sold on PC or does that 1m figure represent the console launch?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ironwood on February 07, 2014, 05:15:38 AM
I know the answer.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: SurfD on February 07, 2014, 06:13:52 AM
Were those D3 boxes sold on PC or does that 1m figure represent the console launch?
However, it would be interesting to find out how many people who already own a PC copy bought a second one for their fav console.  If it is just a very small amount, then nearly 1m new players of D3 is still nearly 1m new players.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on February 13, 2014, 04:56:01 PM
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/12811675/artcraft-building-a-garrison-2-11-2014


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on February 14, 2014, 04:46:43 AM
I need more pictures of the Horde stuff so I can lose interest because there is no fucking way my blood elves would be caught dead in those hideous monstrosities.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: apocrypha on February 14, 2014, 05:40:45 AM
*Resists urge to say mean things about blood elves not belonging in the Horde anyway*  :grin:

I'm very wary about this entire garrison thing still tbh. They really haven't said enough about how it'll work for alts yet. I have a lot of alts, in fact I don't really have a main. I've currently got 9 level 90's and only don't have a 10th because I want to have some reason to do an instant level to 90 when WoD arrives. If every single one of those alts has to have their own separate garrison I will be deeply unimpressed.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Hutch on February 14, 2014, 09:29:59 AM
As far as I'm concerned, it depends on what you can use the garrison for.

With the Tiller farm, one could make a case for getting a fully-functional farm on multiple alts. You never know when you're going to want to farm up some leather or cloth or other crafting material, or have a steady (if slow) supply of Spirits of Harmony. If you have multiple farms, you can get a lot of mats together in a relatively short period of time.

The garrison promises to be a lot more complex than managing a 16-plot farm. If you can perform all of the functions, and explore all of the possibilities, on a single character, then doing it on alts may be redundant. If you have to make choices about how to develop your garrison, then doing it with alts makes sense. Especially if you can make choices that enhance your character specifically.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: apocrypha on February 14, 2014, 09:35:08 AM
Yeah good points, I just don't want to have to repeat grindy reputation crap on multiple alts like I did with the Tillers.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Hutch on February 14, 2014, 10:22:22 AM
With any luck, if there is some kind of rep grind, they'll copy the Grand Commendation (http://www.wowhead.com/item=93226) concept, so that you only have to "grind" once on your main, and then it's double rates for all of your alts. And they'll have it in place right at the start, not after millions of players complain about rep grinds  :grin:

Once they put that in place, getting to Exalted with Tillers was only taking a few days per alt, and that was partly because some of the quests require you to plant something at your farm, and then wait a day to harvest it.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on February 14, 2014, 10:37:31 AM
Or they just make the grind longer and have it work across all the alts while they all contribute points.

I think that's a better solution, and encourages alting, while not damaging whatever time-retention model they love.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on February 14, 2014, 07:09:00 PM
*Resists urge to say mean things about blood elves not belonging in the Horde anyway*  :grin:

I don't really disagree there.  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Soulflame on February 17, 2014, 10:09:05 AM
It's all the fault of the Alliance that the Blood Elves joined the Horde.  Well.  That one guy.  Fuck that guy.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on February 17, 2014, 10:13:50 AM
It's all the fault of the Alliance that the Blood Elves joined the Horde.  Well.  That one guy.  Fuck that guy.
Also Jaina.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on February 17, 2014, 10:14:19 AM
They still haven't said anything about this coming out have they?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on February 17, 2014, 10:15:23 AM
They still haven't said anything about this coming out have they?
Blizzard.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on February 17, 2014, 10:18:36 AM
Yep, which is frankly part of the problem. Hell, Hearthstone and D3 xpac still have to release first.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on February 17, 2014, 11:17:46 AM
The patch with all of the pre-order stuff is going live this week, so it's only a matter of them turning the jump-to-90 feature on after Tuesday.  I suspect they'll do another "hey, subscribe to WoW for a year and we'll give you D3x for freeeeeee" thing, and that'll be announced before the end of the month or early March.

Won't lie, I might come back for a little bit if I can jump to 90 right now on a fresh toon with a pre-order, but Wildstar looks a lot like something more up my alley these days.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Hutch on February 17, 2014, 11:41:27 AM
I'm in that phase that I seem to get into at this point in an expansion. I raid when enough guildmates show up. I do my Timeless Isle daily quest, I grind out some cloth on my tailor alt. If I feel like it, I'll spend some time leveling my alts that aren't 90 yet (my Monk is 84).

This is also the place where I'll dabble in other MMOs. Right now I'm leveling up a toon in Rift. I'm planning to at least take a look at Wildstar, TESO, and EQN, if they can manage to go retail before Warlords of Draenor hits. But when it does hit, those games will end up in the same place that GW2 and TSW did when Pandaria hit, i.e. gathering dust on my hard drive :D


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ironwood on February 17, 2014, 01:15:15 PM
Rift is awful.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Hutch on February 17, 2014, 01:25:25 PM
bliddy bliddy blah

You think everything is awful.

I have played and quit Rift at least twice in the past, and I'll probably end up quitting it again this time around too. I knew this going in, and still I'm trying it, so there must be something about the game that appeals to me.

Since the last time I tried it, they upped the level cap, added a couple land masses, and gave you the ability to tack as many crafting skills onto a single toon as you please, so long as you'll spend the money.

That's how I'm taking it on this time around, is as an omni-crafter. I get my leveling done by "gathering" cloth and leather. And fighting off whatever mobs try to keep me from the plant and ore nodes.

I've observed that Trion broke up the quest hub approach a little, by applying the Kill 10 Rats type quests directly to the mobs. So, you go into Stonefield, kill a troll, and then you've got a Kill 12 Trolls quest.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rendakor on February 17, 2014, 01:36:01 PM
Did they ever do anything about mob density in Rift, specifically on roads? My big pet peeve with it around launch was that even travelling through zones you out-leveled was a chore due to aggro, dismounting grey mobs EVERYWHERE .


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Hutch on February 17, 2014, 01:45:02 PM
They pushed that needle all the way to the other end. Mob density is the same, but their aggro radius is much, much smaller. You practically have to run up and beat a same-level mob across the face before it will attack you.

I'm exaggerating. A little. But you pretty much get to decide which mobs you fight.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rendakor on February 17, 2014, 01:49:42 PM
Good to hear, thanks. Might have to give it another shot at some point.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ironwood on February 17, 2014, 04:00:38 PM

You think everything is awful.


That's not really true.  I like many things.  I've always been a particular fan of your avatar, for example.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rokal on February 17, 2014, 10:09:55 PM
Rift has taken a lot of good steps to make it more approachable. F2P, spec templates, guild-finder, aggro radius, etc.

I still maintain that it's a better WoW than WoW.

On topic: I hope the new patch will bring a release date or at least a beta date soon.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Fabricated on February 18, 2014, 12:35:33 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/mnqr5dZ.png)


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rasix on February 18, 2014, 12:39:58 PM
A mage named Raistlin.  Heh.



Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Mithas on February 18, 2014, 12:45:59 PM
$60 is going to piss a lot of people off. Most people are speculating somewhere between $20-40.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on February 18, 2014, 12:53:20 PM
$60 to essentially say "fuck dealing with all of the content that dozens of art, development, engineer, and Q&A teams spent building for the last 10 years" is not that bad of a price, IMO.   :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on February 18, 2014, 12:56:18 PM
I like it. I'll never use it, but I like that it exists.

It should be high. I keep thinking I should have held that stock.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Mithas on February 18, 2014, 12:56:49 PM
No I don't think it is a bad price either, but I think a lot of the people who were really looking forward to this are going to be disappointed.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on February 18, 2014, 12:58:46 PM
Considering that everyone that buys into WoD is going to get one boost along with all of the other content coming with said expansion, $60 is a fine price.  Besides, you know they'll have sales days  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: tazelbain on February 18, 2014, 01:01:57 PM
Ha, ha, squeeze those stones. Now we what Blizzard thinks about the state of WoW.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Nonentity on February 18, 2014, 01:02:57 PM
60 bucks is fine. A server + faction change is 55 bucks, so that's a good deal.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Hutch on February 18, 2014, 02:28:52 PM
I like it. $60 is just about the right place to make a prospective buyer say, "Hmm, that's pricey. How bad do I really want to do this?"

Skipping straight to 90 is not a trivial thing. The free one isn't there so that you can boost your 11th toon to 90 and skip the content, although many people will undoubtedly do that. Possibly including myself  ;D

It's there for a new/returning player to jump right into Alternate History Draenor. After you burn the free one, you better really want to spend the money to get more.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Draegan on February 18, 2014, 02:38:00 PM
It's way too high. If you made it $10-$20 people would be buying that shit like candy. Starting an alt? Toss in $20 to get going. No one will do that with $60 for the most part.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ingmar on February 18, 2014, 02:39:10 PM
They have to price it above the transfer price; that doesn't mean it isn't too high, but it's the "right" price given how they have other things priced. Which is too high.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: tazelbain on February 18, 2014, 02:45:19 PM
Why does there have to be trasfers in this expansion?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rokal on February 18, 2014, 02:48:11 PM
It's way too high. If you made it $10-$20 people would be buying that shit like candy. Starting an alt? Toss in $20 to get going. No one will do that with $60 for the most part.

"Get going"? 90 is the level cap right now. If you buy this upgrade your character is effectively "done" unless you want to do the gear treadmill. From Blizzard's perspective there needs to be a pretty strong financial disincentive to the 90 upgrade so that people don't insta-upgrade a bunch of characters, find themselves without anything interesting left to do, and unsub. Wouldn't be surprised to see this change to "instant 100" after 6-8 months of WoD with the price still at $60. I don't think the price is ever coming down considering what you get and how the other premium services (like transfers) are priced.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Draegan on February 18, 2014, 03:12:02 PM
They have to price it above the transfer price; that doesn't mean it isn't too high, but it's the "right" price given how they have other things priced. Which is too high.

Do they have to price it above the transfer price? I agree though, compared to the rest of the stuff they sell, this is about right. It's all stupid though.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Hutch on February 18, 2014, 03:14:04 PM
Hey. Anklebiters. This isn't the F2P game that you're not paying a subscription to play.

Getting boosted to the level cap isn't the same thing as buying an extra slot in your character's bank.
As is the case with all of their other micro transactions, Blizzard doesn't need to sell this service, at any price. They have (roughly) 7 million monthly subscribers. They are already swimming in cash.

As is the case with all of their other micro transactions, they've figured out that there's a market for this service. The difference between this and a mini pet is that getting boosted to 90 means that you're not going to spend however long leveling that toon. That's eating into their bread and butter, so of course they're not going to sell it cheap. Get real.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Draegan on February 18, 2014, 03:17:52 PM
It's way too high. If you made it $10-$20 people would be buying that shit like candy. Starting an alt? Toss in $20 to get going. No one will do that with $60 for the most part.

"Get going"? 90 is the level cap right now. If you buy this upgrade your character is effectively "done" unless you want to do the gear treadmill. From Blizzard's perspective there needs to be a pretty strong financial disincentive to the 90 upgrade so that people don't insta-upgrade a bunch of characters, find themselves without anything interesting left to do, and unsub. Wouldn't be surprised to see this change to "instant 100" after 6-8 months of WoD with the price still at $60. I don't think the price is ever coming down considering what you get and how the other premium services (like transfers) are priced.

Oh come the fuck on, this is fucking hilarious. This game has always been about the gear treadmill and other level cap activities (crafting, rep grinding, pvp, raiding, dungeon grinding, doing old raids for skins, achievements). You stick a $$ pricetag on the level boost, and unless it's not like $1, people won't "insta upgrade a bunch of characters". That's pretty fucking ridiculous.



Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on February 18, 2014, 03:18:36 PM
I wouldn't sell anything cheap in their shoes either. They don't need people to skip content. In fact, they probably cost themselves 3 months of subs by letting people do exactly that. So they factor that in, come up with a number, add margin on it, and bam. $60.

Frankly, I'd charge people $100. It's easily a better deal than $1 an hour to get a character to max.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ingmar on February 18, 2014, 03:20:57 PM
They have to price it above the transfer price; that doesn't mean it isn't too high, but it's the "right" price given how they have other things priced. Which is too high.

Do they have to price it above the transfer price? I agree though, compared to the rest of the stuff they sell, this is about right. It's all stupid though.

If they make it cheaper than the transfer price, they lose a bunch of whatevery they're making on transfers right now, which I think is significant. People will just make a $30 dude on the server they want to move to rather than pay $55 to transfer and faction swap, or whatever.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: tazelbain on February 18, 2014, 03:29:41 PM
I get that if you sale a cup of coffee with Lamborghini, it has cost more than Lamborghini by itself, but why must they be bundled together in the first place.  I suspect its because your cash cow is going downhill quick and you are forcing people to buy shit they don't want to get every penny will you can.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rokal on February 18, 2014, 03:37:56 PM
Oh come the fuck on, this is fucking hilarious. This game has always been about the gear treadmill and other level cap activities (crafting, rep grinding, pvp, raiding, dungeon grinding, doing old raids for skins, achievements). You stick a $$ pricetag on the level boost, and unless it's not like $1, people won't "insta upgrade a bunch of characters". That's pretty fucking ridiculous.

Well, it wasn't always about level cap activities. Arguably it has been since TBC, but leveling alts was still a time sink/thing that kept people subbed. What price you'd find acceptable to level multiple alts is subjective, but if it was $10-20 I'd think a large population of players would use it for more than one character. I'd probably level 3 characters myself, which are 3 classes that I would never have "level up" as a reason to play or stay subscribed for.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ingmar on February 18, 2014, 03:42:37 PM
They would make serious fuck you money if it was priced lower. I am pretty sure $60 doesn't maximize their revenue from it, they'd probably benefit from pricing it at 20 or 30 and slashing the transfer fees accordingly.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on February 18, 2014, 04:38:20 PM
They would make serious fuck you money if it was priced lower. I am pretty sure $60 doesn't maximize their revenue from it, they'd probably benefit from pricing it at 20 or 30 and slashing the transfer fees accordingly.

There's honestly no way to know short of reports. $30 doesn't scream TAKE MY MONEY while $60 gets a pass to me.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Tannhauser on February 18, 2014, 05:49:04 PM
$60 is way too much.  Charge $30 and make even more money. 


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on February 18, 2014, 06:18:20 PM
Thirty bucks, I think about buying one to max someone on the opposite faction of whoever I decided to boost for free. Sixty bucks, I go "fuck it, I probably wouldn't have even liked the expansion anyway" and I go back to ignoring WoW entirely. But who knows how typical I am of the lapsed-WoW-people.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on February 18, 2014, 06:32:16 PM
You get one free boost to 90 when you buy the expansion no matter what.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rendakor on February 18, 2014, 06:36:09 PM
I think the point was that this was priced so high as to dissuade someone from purchasing the xpac entirely.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on February 18, 2014, 06:53:41 PM
You get one free boost to 90 when you buy the expansion no matter what.

Right, but I played both sides more or less equally. I'd want a second boost. Cheap enough, I buy one. Not cheap enough, I don't bother with it at all, because I don't feel like figuring out which side I'd want my free 90 and which side I'd have to slog through a bunch of shit I couldn't even make it through when MoP came out.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on February 18, 2014, 07:19:44 PM
I think the point was that this was priced so high as to dissuade someone from purchasing the xpac entirely.

Certainly killed my interest. I never made it to 90 on my Horde and several alts.  Cheap enough I can get them up, ok I'll give it a shot and toss some bucks their way for the alts. Now, not so much.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on February 18, 2014, 07:33:31 PM
$30 seems too small to me. Why the hell would I bother leveling a character? What's that in hours? 80-100?

At that point Blizzard is trading 2 months of time for a complete reroll. I'm not sure that's a good trade even in larger numbers.

Also, I think that's a good point about the x-pac and cost.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on February 18, 2014, 10:46:49 PM
Thirty bucks isn't something I'd drop every time I think to myself "I feel like playing a <blah>." It's high enough to make me ask myself if I reeeeally want to spend that, low enough that I don't immediately dismiss it out of hand. I know that price is going to be different for everyone, but the arbitrarily suggested 30 bucks is pretty close for me.

Again, I dunno how many people are like me, where they see that price, go "ugh, just forget the whole thing" and won't bother even picking up the expansion. But I am pretty sure it didn't "need" to be sixty bucks, either.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rasix on February 19, 2014, 01:32:50 AM
I will never spend $60 on any sort of in-game item/service.  This is no different.  $30 dollars is at least tempting.  I would have probably liked to make a Panda Monk and level it to max after I got done with the Panda only content.  Plus, all of my characters are two expansions behind in the leveling content (never did Cata leveling, got stalled out on my goblin).

But, who am I kidding, I'm done as hell with WoW.   I got the free "try this for a week" thing and logged in once, spent 10 minutes running around Orgrimmar(sp) and generally being confused at my goblin hunter's talents, and then promptly forgot it existed.  I guess at this point I have better no sub option and sub options if I want the whole MMO thing.  So, I guess I don't count in this conversation.

Still too high.  :geezer: :raspberry:

edit: "too"


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Tannhauser on February 19, 2014, 04:46:16 AM
Assuming I bought WoD (still haven't bought MoP), I'd get my free 90.  At $30, I'd level one or two toons.  At $60 I won't even bother with one.  I might pay $30 to repeat content I just did with my free 90, I won't do that at $60.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: apocrypha on February 19, 2014, 11:22:18 AM
Within the pool of vocal forum WoW players most of the loud bitching about the level 90 boost has been of the "dumbing the game down!" variety, i.e. people complaining that their precious heroics are going to be filled with noobs who've paid for a lvl 90 character and don't know how to play. Retarded, I know, but that's what the noise sounds like.

Pricing it at $60 is, I think, a pacifier to those idiots. It's expensive enough to limit it's uptake somewhat and I guess that's very deliberate.

It's irrelevant to me anyway, I only play one faction on one server and I only have one character slot left there that's not already got a 90 in it.  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on February 19, 2014, 12:08:54 PM
I wouldn't be shocked if they teased this price, then cut it down to $40 or lower. It would be smart marketing.



Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on February 19, 2014, 03:36:48 PM
Again, there will be sales.  They've had them before for all of their services.  $60 is fine.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Drubear on February 19, 2014, 03:40:27 PM
I go along with the "don't cut into xfers" notion with the xfer+$5 pricing.  I don't know they really care what the price is, just how it looks against their other offerings. Plus, I daresay there's alist somewhere of "Things we need to have to go F2P on WoW or anything else" and this was just another one of those.

They're not idiots over there - I"m sure they realize that at some point, when the level cap is 300+, that they'll need a "boost to level X" service.  It's just here early. Or maybe right on time... who knows?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on February 19, 2014, 03:49:39 PM
If WoW eventually does go F2P I'm all for it, but they will probably do something stupid like limit LFR attempts.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on February 19, 2014, 06:41:55 PM
And in other news:
(http://i.imgur.com/O1uhRbW.jpg)


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Mithas on February 19, 2014, 07:21:34 PM
Orc females are ugly no matter what.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on February 19, 2014, 08:10:34 PM
Orc females are ugly no matter what.

I think that's the idea?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: apocrypha on February 20, 2014, 08:47:18 AM
The Orc female has always been one of my favourite WoW models - not hyper-sexualised, reasonably proportioned, great "attitude", tough without being too badly clichéd.

However, it's also always been one of the worst actual in-game models. Terrible animation, far too low and too obvious a polygon count and some awful clipping and deformation. Just have a look at the existing model arms and elbows and they way they look like they've been made out of cardboard by a drunken shot-putter!

That redo looks great - very true to the original but actually decently made. I approve!


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on February 20, 2014, 10:48:30 AM
God help them if they change orc female dancing.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lantyssa on February 20, 2014, 12:37:29 PM
I like the orc female except for their grunt every time they are hit.  I couldn't ever level one because of it.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on February 20, 2014, 12:48:58 PM
I want to see if they updated ugly face female orc, you know the one.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on February 20, 2014, 01:40:03 PM
I know this is probably 4 months away minimum still, but I'm having a hard time giving a shit about any of this xpac this time around.

Garrosh again?
Maybe housing sort of?
I'm sure more dailies.
10 more levels?
Outland again?

Since this is the bitch thread I'm going to bitch here. Even when MoP was on the horizon I was interested in where they were going with it. I don't even like the Asian art style or music at all, and I still played it because it was new, and promised some nice updates from Cataclysm (new race, new class, updated classic dungeons, new raids, challenge modes, pet battles, scenarios, more LFR stuff)

This isn't giving us anything we haven't seen before, and this is now the second time (D3 expansion was the first) where I just can't see myself buying it at release.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rokal on February 20, 2014, 02:08:41 PM
There is supposed to be a press event tomorrow which means we'll probably get some new beta information or a beta date next week.

I get what you mean. This is the first expansion they've ever done that didn't have a new class or a new race. To top it off, they've revisiting a series of zones we've already seen before. The whole thing just feels lazy even for Blizzard, a company that took almost a decade to make a mediocre sequel to Diablo 2. On paper it's the least ambitious expansion they've ever done, which seems bizarre when by all accounts the WoW team should be bigger than it has ever been.

I'm hoping the beta info in the next week or two gives me something to be excited about.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on February 20, 2014, 02:17:43 PM
I think the fact that Titan fell apart really bit them in the ass. They were planning on beginning the transition away from WoW by now.

I still go back to that leaked production schedule, which has turned out to be pretty close on a lot of items. Titan would have released under that model in 2014 along with the 5th WoW xpac.

Now, they are scrambling to get something out of the door, because frankly the game is old and they have run out of ideas. I wouldn't be shocked if the next xpac was recycling Wrath 2.0.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on February 20, 2014, 03:06:26 PM
The Orc female has always been one of my favourite WoW models - not hyper-sexualised, reasonably proportioned, great "attitude", tough without being too badly clichéd.

However, it's also always been one of the worst actual in-game models. Terrible animation, far too low and too obvious a polygon count and some awful clipping and deformation. Just have a look at the existing model arms and elbows and they way they look like they've been made out of cardboard by a drunken shot-putter!

That redo looks great - very true to the original but actually decently made. I approve!

This. I love the redo. Her new posture in particular makes me happy.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: craan on February 20, 2014, 03:07:08 PM
Do you mean a literal Wrath 2.0 with another Lich King main boss and story?  Or a combat/talent revamp closer to Wrath while advancing the storyline towards fighting Sargeras?  I thought with all that Wrathion stuff in MoP that's where they were headed.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on February 20, 2014, 03:40:54 PM
Paelos seems to think they're reusing the TBC map. How silly!


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on February 20, 2014, 03:45:26 PM
No they are just re-using a setting by going into an alternate past so it won't affect the present. I know you love fellating blizzard here and while they are making the new game assets, the story is still lazy and uninteresting.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ironwood on February 20, 2014, 03:47:36 PM
Yeah, that was vaguely interesting when they did it for a couple of instances in the caverns of time.  A Whole expansion ?  Nah.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ingmar on February 20, 2014, 04:11:50 PM
Paelos seems to think they're reusing the TBC map. How silly!

Revisiting doesn't mean literally reusing. But you knew that.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rokal on February 20, 2014, 05:05:21 PM
I have no doubt that they're putting as much effort into these new zones as they did for the MoP zones, which were excellent. It's just not a very interesting or exciting idea. Exploring a "less broken" version of Outlands with a lame time travel story feels half-assed compared to showing us places and stories that are new.

I get that that for them, this is also a way to tell the Warcraft 1-3 storylines to WoW players that never bothered with or were too young for that game, but it's misguided. Those storylines aren't worth revisiting for an entire expansion.

The absence of a new class, new race, or (conceptually) new zones feels like it should have given them a chance to crank out some serious 90-100 content, but from what we know this expansion will launch with fewer dungeons than any in the past. Where is the effort?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Margalis on February 20, 2014, 06:59:15 PM
60 bucks is fine. A server + faction change is 55 bucks, so that's a good deal.

This is a fine illustration of the decline of the MMO market.

This is a good deal compared to server + faction change because server + faction change is also hilariously overpriced. Both these things cost as much as a full retail release. To most rational individuals these costs are outrageous. You have to be incredibly invested to believe that paying $60 to not play parts of the game is a good deal.

Blizzard is clearly trying to extract more and more money from a shrinking user base. When you have a product that is falling in popularity you can either lower prices to attract more people or raise prices to greater profit off the people you do have. Blizzard pretty clearly believes that the popularity of WoW is in permanent decline (which it obviously is) so their strategy is to milk whoever they can retain.

Outside of the WoW/MMO bubble these prices are on their face ludicrous.

Quote from: a rational person
They have to price it above the transfer price; that doesn't mean it isn't too high, but it's the "right" price given how they have other things priced. Which is too high.

Yes. They have a shrinking but largely captive audience. The pricing of these things makes absolutely zero sense compared to video games as a whole. But WoW is no longer about appealing to a mass audience, it's about doubling down on the existing one.

As far as "subs are going up" - I 've said this before: what Blizzard calls "subs" are not actual subs in the sense any normal person would use the word.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Fabricated on February 21, 2014, 05:43:43 AM
I have no doubt that they're putting as much effort into these new zones as they did for the MoP zones, which were excellent. It's just not a very interesting or exciting idea. Exploring a "less broken" version of Outlands with a lame time travel story feels half-assed compared to showing us places and stories that are new.

I get that that for them, this is also a way to tell the Warcraft 1-3 storylines to WoW players that never bothered with or were too young for that game, but it's misguided. Those storylines aren't worth revisiting for an entire expansion.

The absence of a new class, new race, or (conceptually) new zones feels like it should have given them a chance to crank out some serious 90-100 content, but from what we know this expansion will launch with fewer dungeons than any in the past. Where is the effort?
Well you see the REAL content are the raids and~*faaaaaaaaaaaaart*


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: calapine on February 21, 2014, 07:08:45 AM
I think the fact that Titan fell apart really bit them in the ass. They were planning on beginning the transition away from WoW by now.

Does anyone know what Titan actually was and reasons for its canning?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Fabricated on February 21, 2014, 07:29:17 AM
It has been kept under wraps surprisingly well. The fact that it's still something of a mystery kinda indicates to me it was really, shamefully bad unless they -really- intend to reboot it and keep the assets/engine they developed for it.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rokal on February 21, 2014, 10:27:54 AM
Well you see the REAL content are the raids and~*faaaaaaaaaaaaart*

Just 2 new raids at launch, less than MoP launched with, so the effort didn't go there either.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on February 21, 2014, 10:40:41 AM
It has been kept under wraps surprisingly well. The fact that it's still something of a mystery kinda indicates to me it was really, shamefully bad unless they -really- intend to reboot it and keep the assets/engine they developed for it.

My guess is they were trying to rip off Planetside, put together a FPS style of shooter in an MMO world, and couldn't get it to work.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ironwood on February 21, 2014, 01:20:43 PM
Well you see the REAL content are the raids and~*faaaaaaaaaaaaart*

Just 2 new raids at launch, less than MoP launched with, so the effort didn't go there either.

So what you're saying is there was little to no effort ?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on February 22, 2014, 04:32:16 AM
I am surprised that people are bitching about WoD being a reskin of TBC (it's not, that's dumb) and not Challenge Grounds V2.0 gating heroics.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Zetor on February 22, 2014, 04:47:44 AM
Honestly, I love the Proving Grounds (the healer one, anyway... the dps one is too mechanical, though I guess that is sort of the point; otoh the tank one is more a lesson in survival and kiting than 'srs bsns raid tanking', but that's fine)... I realize that opinion is probably not shared by the majority, however  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Xanthippe on February 22, 2014, 09:39:24 AM
The $60 price for insta90s seems fine to me. I would not buy one, but I don't care what other people do. It takes very little time now to even get to 90 in comparison to how long it took to get to 60, or even to get from 60 to 70 - especially if you level with BOAs, which can be purchased with gold (assuming one is in a level 25 guild - and there is no shortage of those to join).

I leveled one new character to 85 almost entirely in dungeons without BOAs and it wasn't bad (although I got slaughtered in bgs on the way up by people wearing BOAs). Second character was in full BOAs, and it was way faster.

The LFR thing is cool. No more having to be on at a certain time and having to put up with a guild full of jackwads in order to enjoy the content.

Proving Grounds and Fight Club are cool (although I have only dabbled).

Timeless is chaotic and a nice way to catch up.

I'm enjoying the bgs.

Garrisons sound cool to me. I don't know if I will buy the expansion at launch or not. It depends upon if I'm playing then. I've been playing for a couple of months now, and am still having fun. Once I stop having fun, I'll stop.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on February 23, 2014, 06:35:54 AM
So the latest I'm reading about WoD is that they're going to gate heroics behind the Proving Grounds.  You have to prove yourself competent enough in your role before you can queue up for phat loots.

IMO, this is truly  :awesome_for_real:.  And will probably get removed after the first patch anyways  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on February 23, 2014, 06:57:59 AM
timeline of history dot jpg


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Zetor on February 23, 2014, 07:00:59 AM
Are there even going to be 'phat loots' in heroics to begin with? If anything, they should've gated LFR behind PG... (though admittedly PG mechanics aren't too raid-like)


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on February 23, 2014, 07:46:48 AM
timeline of history dot jpg

History is a gif


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on February 23, 2014, 09:59:21 AM
Are there even going to be 'phat loots' in heroics to begin with? If anything, they should've gated LFR behind PG... (though admittedly PG mechanics aren't too raid-like)
Apparently the plan is that normal L100 dungeons (& scenarios, JP, etc) give you good enough loot to get into LFR while Heroics (& VP) gear you up for Flex. I suspect that plan won't survive contact with the playerbase, but that's the thinking.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: SurfD on February 23, 2014, 04:58:11 PM
So the latest I'm reading about WoD is that they're going to gate heroics behind the Proving Grounds.  You have to prove yourself competent enough in your role before you can queue up for phat loots.

IMO, this is truly  :awesome_for_real:.  And will probably get removed after the first patch anyways  :why_so_serious:
considering they are gateing them behind SILVER proving grounds ranks (which if current standards are any measuring stick, pretty much anyone should be capable of doing), I doubt it will solve much.  People will just put the bare minimum of effort through to get their free pass, then continue to coast through dungeons on autopilot once the LFD tool assembles the group.  "The more things change" and all that.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on February 23, 2014, 05:16:42 PM
Blizzard really wants to make grouping with random assholes viable but the proving grounds thing won't work because it assumes that "skill" has any part of it.  I am sure most of the shitty LFG/R players are not unskilled, they simply don't give a fuck.  So, you'll have people jumping through a couple extra hoops but the end result will be no different.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on February 23, 2014, 06:35:55 PM
I think everyone should get 10 fails that week in LFR, and then they have to run that torch wind quest from MoP to get a new 10.

 :grin:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Draegan on February 25, 2014, 03:32:32 PM
$30 seems too small to me. Why the hell would I bother leveling a character? What's that in hours? 80-100?

At that point Blizzard is trading 2 months of time for a complete reroll. I'm not sure that's a good trade even in larger numbers.

Also, I think that's a good point about the x-pac and cost.

I would imagine more money would come from people resubbing and maxing out a character for 20-30$ and jump right back into things whereas normally people would have to slog through shit content they already did a thousand times. At $60 and staring at the resub button I would never pull that trigger. It's too high for an impulse purchase. I'd rather take the 60 and buy a new game or two. At 20-30, I might just say fuck it and do it for the weekend.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: tazelbain on February 25, 2014, 03:49:06 PM
Either you price for growth (expand your market share) or value (get the most out of your existing market share). I don't see how anyone can argue a $60 expack, the most expressive ever, is priced for growth. Regardless of the goodies, its not a price point to entice new players to join or old players to return.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on February 25, 2014, 03:54:56 PM
Wait they are charging $60 for the expansion? That's laughable. $20 more than prior expansions and less content?

They must be joking.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Mithas on February 25, 2014, 04:07:34 PM
I don't think I ever saw them say they were charging $60 for the expansion. Did I miss something?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: tazelbain on February 25, 2014, 04:25:13 PM
No people throwing around $60 so much i thought price was set to that. Fine. Whatever. I figured passion expressed was over something in reality not idle speculation. My bad. Debate over nothing can continue.

EDIT: So confused.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Trippy on February 25, 2014, 04:26:16 PM
From what I've read the $60 price includes one level 90 boost. The level 90 boost will also be available separately for $60. It's not clear yet if the expansion will be available without the boost at a cheaper price.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on February 25, 2014, 04:27:33 PM
And if it's not $40, I have absolutely zero shot at playing it. I don't give a damn about boosting anything. I have two characters at 90 and that's all I have time for.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on March 01, 2014, 05:11:59 AM
And in the ultimate expression of "Killing bosses & stealing their shit", DKs are now the Lich King:
Quote
Defile
Replaces Death and Decay
Lasts 10 seconds. 30 second cooldown.
Deals damage to all enemies standing in it. Damage and area increase by 5% every time it deals damage, maximum of 3 times per second.
Enemies standing in your Defile deal 10% less damage to you.

Necrotic Plague
Replaces Frost Fever and Blood Plague
When Necrotic Plague deals damage it spreads itself to nearby targets and gains a stack. Maximum of 15 stacks.
You gain 5 Runic Power when an enemy with Necrotic Plague deals damage to you.


Breath of Sindragosa
Consumes Runic Power to continuously deal damage to all enemies in front of you. Enemies damaged by this breath are Marked. Targets with the Mark of Sindragosa deal 5% less magical damage to you.

(Or SindraaaAAAaaaaAAAAAAAaaAAAagosaAAAAA)


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Xanthippe on March 01, 2014, 09:53:41 AM
And if it's not $40, I have absolutely zero shot at playing it. I don't give a damn about boosting anything. I have two characters at 90 and that's all I have time for.

I can't imagine the price won't drop to 40 in short order if they start at 60.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on March 01, 2014, 02:25:01 PM
(Or SindraaaAAAaaaaAAAAAAAaaAAAagosaAAAAA)

Oh how I hated that actress' voice.  BE TRAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYSZZZ EWEEEEEEEE

So are DKs really so under-represented now that they're getting buffed like this? I know they lost a lot of the fun to their play in Cata through MoP but there still seemed to be a bunch of them when I stopped playing last April or whenever.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on March 01, 2014, 02:57:31 PM
(Or SindraaaAAAaaaaAAAAAAAaaAAAagosaAAAAA)

Oh how I hated that actress' voice.  BE TRAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYSZZZ EWEEEEEEEE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jInIBx65tfU

Quote
So are DKs really so under-represented now that they're getting buffed like this? I know they lost a lot of the fun to their play in Cata through MoP but there still seemed to be a bunch of them when I stopped playing last April or whenever.
I think it's just that it's easy to steal abilities for new DK talents that way, while other classes have to have abilities 'inspired by' - mainly because most of the "classic" abilities have already been given out previously (Avatar for warriors in MoP, for example). WoD talent trees: http://www.wowdb.com/talent-calculator-wod


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on March 01, 2014, 04:03:46 PM
I welcome the DK 100 talents.  The 90 ones were horrid, and a poor choice for that tier compared to other classes.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rendakor on March 01, 2014, 06:22:49 PM
The DK MoP talents in general were shit, since a lot of them represented choosing one of two things where you used to have both before. The talent system is the reason I left WoW and am unlikely to return.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on March 09, 2014, 04:16:44 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaBYjVBY_bM

Lookit dat fuggin gnome


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on March 09, 2014, 07:48:22 PM
Looks like someone in marketing goofed and dropped the ad video early.

And yes, that gnome is  :drill:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on March 10, 2014, 12:18:34 PM
Aaaaaaand preorders are now available.  Also, 90 boosts are live in game for the reported $60 a pop.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on March 10, 2014, 12:24:58 PM
I'd love to get a report on their sales for that upgrade, just to see how many deep pockets are still involved in WoW. Or if they are offended by this move.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on March 10, 2014, 12:55:22 PM
I'm three levels away from 60 with my Monk.  Gonna burn my boost on him for the profession boost.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on March 10, 2014, 01:30:51 PM
Also, we have a hard-deadline of 12/20/14 for release.  It could be before that, but it looks like they didn't wanna look shaky by putting up pre-orders without some kind of expectation for when people could play.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rokal on March 10, 2014, 01:49:32 PM
$10 more than previous expansions, with seemingly (from what they've shown) lower quantity & less interesting content, and with a content gap that will be longer than ICC. SoO launched in Sept and the ETA on the purchase page for this is Fall or potentially as late as Dec.

:uhrr:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Mithas on March 10, 2014, 01:54:25 PM
Yeah I don't really understand the higher price. No new race/class should mean a faster turn around time for a new expansion but it obviously isn't.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on March 10, 2014, 02:08:46 PM
It's the "free" 90 boost.  Again, for one (and for some people, they may only play one) character, you get to give the finger to the last 10 years of content, patches, and other fluff.

Aside from that, I wouldn't underestimate just how much dev time and stuff is going into the Garrison thing.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Trippy on March 10, 2014, 02:49:45 PM
No, the expansion without level 90 boost is $49.99 which is $10 more than the Mists of Panderia standard edition price of $39.99.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on March 10, 2014, 02:52:23 PM
My wife will want a CE but I'm willing to bet I can talk her out of it.  I'm going to be skipping because I've realized I'm done.  There's enough freemium games out there to support my MMO habit and they're equally engaging. If all you do is PUG raids, they have the same quality & difficulty as WoWs, as I've found in the last 9 months.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Trippy on March 10, 2014, 02:59:31 PM
I'd love to get a report on their sales for that upgrade, just to see how many deep pockets are still involved in WoW. Or if they are offended by this move.
Enough of them to crash their store page :awesome_for_real:

(http://i.imgur.com/ZL75cIG.png)


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on March 10, 2014, 03:06:00 PM
No, the expansion without level 90 boost is $49.99 which is $10 more than the Mists of Panderia standard edition price of $39.99.


Incorrect.  I just bought the 49.99 regular.  It came with a level boost that I'm putting on my Monk right now.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Trippy on March 10, 2014, 03:06:54 PM
Ah okay I read it wrong, thanks. $69.99 is the digital deluxe preorder.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on March 10, 2014, 04:02:32 PM
Boost complete.  I find myself on the Timeless Isle, all geared out and ready to rock  :drill:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on March 10, 2014, 04:19:10 PM
Also, we have a hard-deadline of 12/20/14 for release.  It could be before that, but it looks like they didn't wanna look shaky by putting up pre-orders without some kind of expectation for when people could play.

That's absolutely insane. The expectation was that they were going to stop patching to move faster past the lag of the prior expansions. The expectation was they would have something out by summer at the latest. And now we're hearing that they are going slower than ever AND giving us less content?

Forget it, there's no way I'm paying for that after being out of the game for over a year.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lantyssa on March 10, 2014, 05:19:11 PM
Boost complete.  I find myself on the Timeless Isle, all geared out and ready to rock  :drill:
Now you just have to wait nine months or so.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Zetor on March 10, 2014, 05:35:08 PM
Also, we have a hard-deadline of 12/20/14 for release.  It could be before that, but it looks like they didn't wanna look shaky by putting up pre-orders without some kind of expectation for when people could play.

That's absolutely insane. The expectation was that they were going to stop patching to move faster past the lag of the prior expansions. The expectation was they would have something out by summer at the latest. And now we're hearing that they are going slower than ever AND giving us less content?

Forget it, there's no way I'm paying for that after being out of the game for over a year.
I have a hunch we'll be getting Ruby Sanctum 2.0 sometime late spring / early summer just to 'tide people over' until Warlords... with probably similar results as in 2010.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on March 10, 2014, 05:41:36 PM
They may, but I just don't see it coming. Or if it does, we just won't care. I think something has completely come off the rails over there. Several people I know that worked there bailed, for reason that weren't clear, and the time gap here is one of the largest ever between content updates if it goes to term.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Zetor on March 10, 2014, 05:45:16 PM
Well, "we just won't care" was what I meant by similar results  :awesome_for_real: I don't know anyone who was actually enthusiastic about Ruby Sanctum except for a small group of uber-raiders. But I bet they'll do something like that anyway just to say "here is your content, now shuddap!"

edit: words


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on March 10, 2014, 05:59:31 PM
I think something has completely come off the rails over there. Several people I know that worked there bailed, for reason that weren't clear, and the time gap here is one of the largest ever between content updates if it goes to term.

Wouldn't surprise me. I've suspected there's going to be fallout from the mothership for Titan not going anyplace.  Autonomy or not, Blizzard's made enough mis-steps in the recent past I'm sure some shark in the hierarchy is using them to his advantage in some internal power play.  They're just too large to avoid that sort of corporate bullshit anymore, particularly when a larger company owns them.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rendakor on March 10, 2014, 06:05:27 PM
Well, "we just won't care" was what I meant by similar results  :awesome_for_real: I don't know anyone who was actually enthusiastic about Ruby Sanctum except for a small group of uber-raiders. But I bet they'll do something like that anyway just to say "here is your content, now shuddap!"

edit: words
RS was also annoyingly hard, even for a guild that had cleared ICC (but not H ICC). I don't think we ever actually downed it.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on March 10, 2014, 07:07:34 PM
They may, but I just don't see it coming.
https://twitter.com/Abrosiabi/status/443101457034661888

You're not having much luck with your predictions today, are you?  :grin:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on March 10, 2014, 08:02:58 PM
Well that was fast. I guess somebody over there did the math.

Promising "something" with no date and no idea WTF they are talking about isn't going to rile me up anymore.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Fabricated on March 11, 2014, 06:30:16 AM
"Pretty Exciting". Unless it's some weird randomly generated dungeon thing or a proper raid and not a one-shot it's not going to be worth staying subbed.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: apocrypha on March 11, 2014, 08:45:08 AM
Well I unsubbed last week, giving the reason "Fed up waiting for WoD release date announcement".  I'm sure I'm not the only person who has done that and the sums must be being done at Blizzard.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on March 11, 2014, 08:59:38 AM
I unsubbed in December giving the same reason. I figured the wait was going to be 6 months to expansion. I had no idea it was going to be a year.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Selby on March 11, 2014, 12:09:31 PM
The Target credit card fiasco ended my subscription and I realized I hadn't logged in to bother trying to fix it.  So I've been done since early February and haven't missed it.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on March 11, 2014, 01:21:38 PM
I unsubbed in December giving the same reason. I figured the wait was going to be 6 months to expansion. I had no idea it was going to be a year.
Your pattern recognition needs work.  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on March 11, 2014, 01:44:20 PM
Not really. If they were still working on getting Titan out the door? Then maybe you can expect the longest delay we've had in expansions. If they were adding in remotely the same amount of content, maybe there would be an excuse.

They revamped the entire leveling world in Cataclysm, and it still took less time that what they are projecting here. There's no reason for them to take this long.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rendakor on March 11, 2014, 02:38:51 PM
Didn't they only give up on Titan recently though? Blizzard doesn't do anything quickly, so I'm not surprised that they're slow at reassigning personnel.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Tannhauser on March 11, 2014, 04:21:16 PM
I un-subbed a couple of days ago.  Haven't logged on it in at least two weeks so I was wasting money. 


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on March 11, 2014, 04:57:24 PM
Didn't they only give up on Titan recently though? Blizzard doesn't do anything quickly, so I'm not surprised that they're slow at reassigning personnel.

It was May of last year that they started reassigning people. It shouldn't be that long of a cycle to get them in place and get this thing ready for a summer launch. Christmas is unacceptable in terms of delay on a game that was last patched 7 months ago.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on March 11, 2014, 05:35:03 PM
Psst. You do know that the 20th of December is technically the last day of Autumn, right?
It's a placeholder. It means "Release sometime in Autumn 2014" and nothing more than that.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rokal on March 11, 2014, 05:36:53 PM
Even September 1st would be embarrassing considering what the expansion includes and how much they talked up "faster content releases".


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on March 11, 2014, 06:12:12 PM
I'm sure things may improve in the dev process once Reaper of Souls is out in the open.  Hearthstone also went live this week, so there's that too.

I know, rabble rabble not the same devs teams, but I imagine some key people have gone back and forth.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rendakor on March 11, 2014, 06:55:33 PM
They've been promising faster patch/expansion time since early WOTLK-era at least. I'm not sure why people are still surprised that things take forever.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on March 11, 2014, 08:10:10 PM
They've been promising faster patch/expansion time since early WOTLK-era at least. I'm not sure why people are still surprised that things take forever.

Because they are promising less content, and because they pulled people off another project in May of last year. Simple logic should say that doing less should take less time. Unless it's Blizzard who apparently thinks this means, more time, charge people even more money, and push it into the holiday season when the last patch was before Thanksgiving.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rokal on March 11, 2014, 11:53:44 PM
They actually managed to deliver faster patches for MoP too, so the sudden return to a content drought is... bizarre. It seemed like maybe they actually had worked out the kinks for a faster release schedule after years of promising it, but here we are looking at a year + without new content again.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on March 12, 2014, 07:14:29 PM
Rumor and scuttlebutt: We already know that flying won't be enabled for WoD for at least the first patch.  The word is now that such a restriction may be put in place for the entire expansion.

Discuss  :grin:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on March 12, 2014, 07:50:12 PM
Rumor and scuttlebutt: We already know that flying won't be enabled for WoD for at least the first patch.  The word is now that such a restriction may be put in place for the entire expansion.

Discuss  :grin:

 :mob:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: apocrypha on March 13, 2014, 03:42:56 AM
Rumor and scuttlebutt: We already know that flying won't be enabled for WoD for at least the first patch.  The word is now that such a restriction may be put in place for the entire expansion.

Discuss  :grin:

That would pretty much prevent me from buying the expansion and may in fact cure me of WoW forever.

Flying is unquestionably my favourite thing in WoW.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on March 13, 2014, 03:44:36 AM
Blizzard, once you let us fly, you had to deal with it. "Turn it off because waaaaah" is not dealing with it.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: apocrypha on March 13, 2014, 06:41:26 AM
Also... doesn't the collectors edition of WoD come with a flying mount?

 :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Fabricated on March 13, 2014, 06:50:42 AM
Also... doesn't the collectors edition of WoD come with a flying mount?

 :awesome_for_real:
If I recall, yes. Also they're selling another premium flying mount in the cash store, so lol.

There are three reasons they can come up with for disabling flying mounts in Draenor for good, and only one they can say outloud.

1. "It'll help world PVP!"
2. Art assets are hard man; flying mounts require us to make more of them since you can see everywhere and you skip all of our lovingly crafted bespoke graphics when you fly over it!
3. Flying mounts let you get to places and do stuff too quick and we need every single second we can delay you from consuming content because we're Blizzard and can't crank out content despite having a shitzillion dollars and a AAA dev staff.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rendakor on March 13, 2014, 07:18:48 AM
Yea no-flying would save me from ever resubbing.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on March 13, 2014, 08:28:21 AM
They've subtly bitched about flying before, and if I can recall there was an interview where a Blizzard employee said that they wish they could go back in time and never put it in.

The customers love it. The customers demanded it because so much of the travel was complete tedium. We don't want to aggro trains of mobs riding horses around on the way to the fun.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ironwood on March 13, 2014, 09:22:16 AM
They could just make flying slower than riding.

 :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: apocrypha on March 13, 2014, 11:24:50 AM
The customers love it. The customers demanded it because so much of the travel was complete tedium.

It's interesting to look at pretty much any wow-centered forums regarding this issue. Official forums and MMO-Champ for example, both of which are stuffed with dickheads saying what a wonderful idea it is to remove flying.

It'll be fascinating to see if Blizzard have learned from, oooh say... Cataclysm, that listening to the forum penisfaces is a recipe for mass subs exodus.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rokal on March 13, 2014, 11:40:40 AM
They've subtly bitched about flying before, and if I can recall there was an interview where a Blizzard employee said that they wish they could go back in time and never put it in.

The customers love it. The customers demanded it because so much of the travel was complete tedium. We don't want to aggro trains of mobs riding horses around on the way to the fun.

Counterpoint: Timeless Isle would be terrible with flying mounts. The sensation of finding rare mobs/chests/other stuff while exploring would have been almost entirely removed if you were just flying over everything to quest markers again, or between the two high-value rare mobs that you looked up online.  

The air-taxi service and trying to figure out how you can use it to get to some of the visible-but-out-of-reach chests, the dangerous feeling of moving around the Ordos shrine, the rush of trying to get to a rare mob that you see spawn above you before it dies: all would be removed if Timeless isle allowed flying mounts. It would also feel like more of a grind for coins since you wouldn't wander across them in quite the same way (killing mobs, skinning, small chests, etc.)

People say correctly that WoW doesn't feel like exploring a real (fictional) world anymore and, in my mind, flying mounts are the #1 cause of that. Rift still doesn't allow flying mounts and it allowed the places in the last expansion to feel "real" even though the quality of the zones probably wasn't as high as WoW.

Whether you agree with the points or not, or whether they fail to out-weigh convenience for you, there are legitimate reasons to take out flying mounts besides "make players spend more time playing WoW".


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Miasma on March 13, 2014, 12:05:01 PM
You're comparing not being able to fly on a very small, compact island which was designed to have content every fifty feet against an entire large continent full of mostly empty space.  Do you see the problem?  Doing the standard "you can't fly until you reach max level" is good enough to force people to walk through the zones while levelling.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Hutch on March 13, 2014, 12:05:53 PM
Timeless Isle (and the Isles of Thunder and Giants) are isolated zones. On the mainland of Pandaria, you could fly as soon as you hit 90 and paid the fee.

If their plan is to make Draenor-2 into a great big no-fly zone, they can fuck right off. If they take the mixed approach, like they did in Pandaria, that will be a different matter.

This being Blizzard of course, we shouldn't be surprised if they massively over-correct in one direction or the other  :uhrr:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on March 13, 2014, 12:15:12 PM
Exactly. Nobody minded Timeless isle because you can cross the entire thing on a riding mount in less than a minute, and the entire area is one big farming camp.

Doing an entire set of zones that way is idiotic. This is another version of Blizzard getting really lazy.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rokal on March 13, 2014, 12:25:33 PM
Zones don't need to be quite as big if they don't support flying. Blizzard also stated that the Timeless isle content model might by re-used in WoD.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on March 13, 2014, 12:28:06 PM
Zones don't need to be quite as big if they don't support flying. Blizzard also stated that the Timeless isle content model might by re-used in WoD.

There's no might about it. Blizzard is reusing everything these days. The entire idea of this expansion is reusing assets in a different timeline. Fuck that story makes no sense.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rokal on March 13, 2014, 12:36:54 PM
I'm withholding judgement on whether Timeless Isle being applied to regular zones is a good or a bad thing. It was, by far, the best quest hub they added as patch content. I'm not really eager about the idea of doing a bunch of linear "collect 5" quests and scrolling through pages of quest text about time travel, which is the defacto alternative.

Maybe a mix of the two would be best, sort of like how dynamic zone events and Instant Adventure could compliment normal questing in Rift.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on March 13, 2014, 02:27:25 PM
Rumor and scuttlebutt: We already know that flying won't be enabled for WoD for at least the first patch.  The word is now that such a restriction may be put in place for the entire expansion.

Discuss  :grin:
The "word" was from the MMO-C forums, where reading comprehension is unfair to some most.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lantyssa on March 13, 2014, 08:35:07 PM
They could just make flying slower than riding.

 :why_so_serious:
CoH did that and we fucking loved it...


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on March 13, 2014, 08:35:45 PM
Blizzard are usually very fast to squash untrue rumor


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on March 14, 2014, 03:31:42 AM
They could just make flying slower than riding.

 :why_so_serious:
CoH did that and we fucking loved it...

Blizzard can take away flying mounts if they put in superjump.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Draegan on March 14, 2014, 12:31:21 PM
I'll resub if they took away flying mounts. It might actually make the world design fun.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Soulflame on March 14, 2014, 12:33:12 PM
I, too, would like to be forced to autorun through content repeatedly in order to get anywhere.

Or, you know, not.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Draegan on March 14, 2014, 01:50:28 PM
They took out flight points in the game?

What are you walking towards anyway? Doesn't the game put you into groups and into instances automatically anyway these days?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rendakor on March 14, 2014, 05:42:07 PM
I realize this is a stupid, often used, argument but if you don't like flying mounts, why not just play without them?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ingmar on March 14, 2014, 05:51:48 PM
It's not about whether you as a player like them or not, though; it's about what you can't do in your zone design (mostly in terms of narrative) because they break it.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on March 14, 2014, 05:52:15 PM
I realize this is a stupid, often used, argument but if you don't like flying mounts, why not just play without them?

It's not fun unless you know others are suffering under your boot, duh.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Hutch on March 14, 2014, 05:53:28 PM
They took out flight points in the game?

What are you walking towards anyway? Doesn't the game put you into groups and into instances automatically anyway these days?


Brad McQuaid called, he wants his Kickstarter pitch back.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on March 14, 2014, 05:59:59 PM
No, no no.  It's just that the designer who's responsible for all the ground mounts is pissed off that they're never used anymore outside of PVP.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Miasma on March 14, 2014, 11:08:35 PM
I realize this is a stupid, often used, argument but if you don't like flying mounts, why not just play without them?
Seeing people flying above me on griffons ruins my immersion as I travel the way God intended, on the back of a wooly mammoth which is also carrying a clockwork robot and a blue skinned alien from outer space.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rendakor on March 14, 2014, 11:38:24 PM
It's not about whether you as a player like them or not, though; it's about what you can't do in your zone design (mostly in terms of narrative) because they break it.
I wasn't aware anyone was still playing WoW for their gripping narrative.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: apocrypha on March 15, 2014, 01:40:58 AM
I'll resub if they took away flying mounts. It might actually make the world design fun.

Do you play on a pvp server?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on March 15, 2014, 02:06:34 AM
It's not about whether you as a player like them or not, though; it's about what you can't do in your zone design (mostly in terms of narrative) because they break it.
I wasn't aware anyone was still playing WoW for their gripping narrative.

Doesn't matter if we do or not, if they even sort of care about that (their story is shit, but I am convinced they think it's worth giving a shit about), that's going to be something they think about.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ingmar on March 15, 2014, 02:07:07 AM
It's not about whether you as a player like them or not, though; it's about what you can't do in your zone design (mostly in terms of narrative) because they break it.
I wasn't aware anyone was still playing WoW for their gripping narrative.

I wasn't really trying to give a player perspective - but travel spells, teleporting, etc., have been screwing up adventures since 1974.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Malakili on March 15, 2014, 02:37:31 AM
Not that I play WoW anymore anyway, but flying for the first time in Burning Crusade was one of the moments from my WoW-playing time burned into my memory.  Do those same zones in a different timeline, without flight.  LOL.  :oh_i_see:

I mean, I know you couldn't fly in them while leveling in them the first time around... but still...


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on March 15, 2014, 07:32:17 AM
same zones

Zones in WoD which are probably going to be fairly similar to the TBC zones:

Talador (/Terrokar) & Nagrand, sort of

...yep, that's about it. Zangermarsh is an ocean (and not actually a playable zone), Tanaan Jungle (/Hellfire Peninsula) is a tropical jungle, Shadowmoon Valley is a moonlit forest, the Blades Edge Mts don't exist, and so on. Netherstorm doesn't exist either but the Fields of Farahlon are going to be patch content, iirc.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on March 15, 2014, 07:42:44 AM
Yeah, Garrosh traveled back before the sundering of Draenor.  It only became Outland (the broken fragments) after the events of the Warcraft II expansion "Through the Dark Portal."  Orcs blew it up by creating too many portals. Stupid orcs.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Outlan


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rendakor on March 15, 2014, 01:11:00 PM
Doesn't matter if we do or not, if they even sort of care about that (their story is shit, but I am convinced they think it's worth giving a shit about), that's going to be something they think about.
Since I accept that their story is shit, I don't care that it is made shittier by me being able to fly. That is an entirely acceptable tradeoff. I don't really mind having to play through the leveling content once on foot, but when I hit max level let me (and all my alts) fly over all the things.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on March 16, 2014, 07:49:58 PM
That's not really the point, but okay?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Draegan on March 17, 2014, 08:07:22 PM
I realize this is a stupid, often used, argument but if you don't like flying mounts, why not just play without them?

Because world and game design vary greatly based on flying mounts.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on March 17, 2014, 08:19:38 PM
I realize this is a stupid, often used, argument but if you don't like flying mounts, why not just play without them?

Because world and game design vary greatly based on flying mounts.

pvp alone is a nightmare when you introduce another axis.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Hutch on March 18, 2014, 10:41:23 AM
If Blizzard is actually going to design an entire expansion around the idea of "no flying mounts anywhere", they'd better prepare themselves for an exodus of Cataclysm-ic proportions.

I personally don't think they've gotten that dumb again already. At least I hope not.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Mithas on March 18, 2014, 10:46:46 AM
I wonder if they are floating this kind of stuff out there because they are running into technical problems during development. Maybe some issue with garrisons or with the new PVP island or something. I get limiting flying until 100, but no flying just seems silly to me.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on March 18, 2014, 10:56:32 AM
I wonder if they are floating this kind of stuff out there because they are running into technical problems during development. Maybe some issue with garrisons or with the new PVP island or something. I get limiting flying until 100, but no flying just seems silly to me.

I don't care if they limit flying in garrisons. Frankly, why would I need to fly around them? I do care if can't program anymore. Did they fire the guy who wasn't an idiot about this stuff? Is Timmy the intern doing design docs now?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Typhon on March 18, 2014, 06:57:37 PM
I just want to drop a quick note thanking you all for continuing to care about and discuss WoW (here).  Every now and then I wonder how it's doing.  These threads free me from that wonder.

I sincerely thank you!   :heart:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on March 21, 2014, 10:39:29 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/rnoYSsD.jpg)


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on March 27, 2014, 03:54:50 PM
http://games.on.net/2014/03/looting-housing-and-pushing-the-level-cap-we-visit-blizzard-to-check-out-warlords-of-draenor/
Some new stuff, some not so new. But....
Quote
“If you’re a former WoW player, you’re going to get hit with some crazy nostalgia,” Afrasiabi explained, describing the setup behind Draenor and the basis for the Iron Horde’s mass invasion of Azeroth.

“it’ll be a prolonged event where we’re basically fighting off these Iron Horde war machines … and doing everything we can to stop it but nothing seems to work,” he outlines. “We’re trying to blow up the portal, we’re killing them, they don’t stop, it’s endless. So it becomes dire, the point where these guys are actually marching across and gaining ground through Azeroth, which gets us to launch day.”

“Instead of giant demons marching up to the gates and we were fending them off, now it’s going to be you and your army and what you see is a scene of just fifty thousand [orcs], just orcs everywhere.” It’s a very deliberate, narrative-focused setup, one that mirrors the Burning Crusade, and something Afrasiabi channels a lot during our talk.

“This becomes a Death Knight-like experience in Wrath, or even now, you go through a one and a half hour experience, it’s very custom tailored to the death knights,” he says. “We’re going to put you into this experience, where its 40 to 45 minutes and we really amp up the action, the suspense, the drama, we show you those guys, we really make you see the face of your enemy, we make you interact with them, we make you understand why these guys need to be stopped, why the Iron Horde needs to be stopped.”

I really hope they put a "Skip this shit" button in once you've done this once on your main. "Directed gameplay" is a synonym for "railroading" as can be amply demonstrated by the tedium of Cataclysm zones (fuck Uldum).


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on March 27, 2014, 04:45:47 PM
I agree, up to the point when it comes to group play.  If everyone in the group has seen the content at least once, then allow it to be skipped.  Otherwise, play on.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Azazel on March 28, 2014, 11:06:47 AM
Rumor and scuttlebutt: We already know that flying won't be enabled for WoD for at least the first patch.  The word is now that such a restriction may be put in place for the entire expansion.

Discuss  :grin:

That would pretty much prevent me from buying the expansion and may in fact cure me of WoW forever.

Flying is unquestionably my favourite thing in WoW.

This.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on April 01, 2014, 08:57:35 AM
Female Draenei remake preview (http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/blog/13474198/artcraft-remaking-the-female-draenei-01-04-2014)   :grin:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on April 01, 2014, 10:16:04 AM
Good april fools joke!


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on April 01, 2014, 11:13:54 AM
Best comment: "She looks like she's holding in a fart."


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lt.Dan on April 01, 2014, 02:27:12 PM
I like the heroic double chin. About time we saw more real body models in fantasy art. :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on April 01, 2014, 06:42:35 PM
Oh my god: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/12371977139#1
I sort of want to just quote the whole thing.




Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rendakor on April 01, 2014, 07:25:05 PM
Amazing.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on April 01, 2014, 08:15:27 PM
Warriors have been nerfed because reasons.

That made my day.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on April 01, 2014, 08:49:01 PM
Quote
Chakra, when the walls fell.

 :drill:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Miasma on April 01, 2014, 09:42:16 PM
Oh wow all the blizzard stuff was great.  Really made up for taking last April Fool's off basically.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on April 01, 2014, 09:58:56 PM
Quote
To make playing a Mage more enjoyable, players who use the words “tray,” “food,” “drink,” “table,” “snack,” “mage,” or “pls” in Raid, Party, Battleground, Say, Yell, General, or Trade channels within a Mage’s hearing are killed instantly.

If only.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Selby on April 01, 2014, 11:09:48 PM
"Homerock" cracked me up considerably more than it should have...


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ironwood on April 02, 2014, 04:00:28 AM
Quote
Chakra, when the walls fell.

 :drill:

Yeah, that was when I started crying the laugh tears. 


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Fabricated on April 02, 2014, 09:53:02 AM
That is actually pretty funny.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on April 03, 2014, 08:38:30 PM
And here. We. Go.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/13423478/warlords-of-draenor%E2%84%A2-alpha-patch-notes-4-3-2014


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rendakor on April 03, 2014, 08:48:56 PM
Hahahahahaha. Thanks for saving me $40; nothing in there makes me want to ever touch this game again.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on April 03, 2014, 09:04:52 PM
A lot of it is copy/pastes of previous articles they've posted about changes (item squish, healing changes, stat changes).  The notes just get a little more specific about those, and a hell of a lot more specific on class changes.

Automatic Major Glyph learning will cheese off Inscriptors, but something like this was bound to happen.  Capitalism rabble rabble  :why_so_serious:

RAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE!

Care to be more specific?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rasix on April 03, 2014, 09:09:50 PM
It's just not very sexy.  But, I'm not their audience, I haven't been over WoW since the start of Cata.  These don't seem like, "come back to WoW and do this awesome thing" features that might draw someone back.  There's that garrison, but it sounds a lot like my ship from SWTOR.

There's still something else big and unknown planned, right?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rendakor on April 03, 2014, 10:03:19 PM
RAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE!

Care to be more specific?
Sure. Stream of consciousness bitching incoming, as I reread the notes and whine.

Stat squish is stupid as a concept. Getting weaker as the game progresses is bad design.

Str=Agi=Int is stupid. Why bother having different stats if they all do functionally the same thing?

Removed Dodge, Parry, Hit, Expertise. So that leaves what, Crit, Mastery and Haste as the only stats left on gear? And since items generally have two modifers, that's literally only 6 possible combinations of gear. How interesting. Again, why even still have stats? Just give items an armor type (or simpler, class/spec restrictions!) and ilvl.

PVP shit, blah blah tl;dr. Don't care about PVP.

Let's make healing harder again! That's worked out so well in the past. Also, smart heals are no longer smart.  :uhrr:

Racials: Mostly tl;dr, but Undead can no longer "breathe" underwater indefinitely. Because that makes fucking sense.

Ability Removal: This is the part where I really lost it. So many cool abilities ripped out or made spec specific. Coil for DKs, Innervate, Hunter's Mark, AE/Blizzard, Salv, TClap/WW, Sunder. Also all disarms and cast speed slows.

Auto-glyphs is fucking dumb too, although I imagine glyphs will just be removed entirely by next expansion.

Health Potions and Healthstones now share a cooldown, to fix a bug where someone occasionally clicked on a Healthstone.

DKs no longer need to put up diseases first, because clicking that one button that applies both is fucking hard. Death Strike's healing is now just based on attack power, because it used to require a bit of skill to use well.

Don't know the rest of the classes well enough (in their MoP form) so that's all tl;dr too.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Zetor on April 04, 2014, 12:05:05 AM
Yea... I'm not sure what to think. Item squish actually looks ok (the huge numbers were silly), and while some of the removed abilities make me sad (I LIKED using frostbrand as a resto shaman, dammit), I can see where they are coming from. I do agree with Rendakor that some of the streamlining cost most of the depth the classes had in the first place (such as deathstrike timing for DK tanks), which makes me even more sadface.

PVP remains clownshoes as ever, though. Reducing the number of CCs (as well as consolidating the various DRs) is a good idea, but now you have one race that can break all 'mez' CCs on a separate cooldown from the trinket (and another that can break all 'root' CCs separately). Gee, I wonder how that'll work out. They're also removing all blanket silences except for one racial... that also happens to be AOE.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on April 04, 2014, 01:29:34 AM
Quote
That’s a lot of big changes for healers: reduced throughput, a more deliberate pace, less powerful “smart” heals, weaker absorbs, fewer spells, and a new focus on efficiency decisions. We’re confident that we can apply lessons learned from previous expansions to make this the best healer experience yet: more dynamic, less punishing, and frankly a lot more fun.

lol


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Nevermore on April 04, 2014, 01:35:16 AM
Yes, we've reduced throughput, established a more deliberate pace, had less powerful "smart" heals, weaker absorbs, fewer spells and focused on efficiency decisions before, but this time it will be different!  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on April 04, 2014, 01:48:22 AM
It'll be so fun you guys.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on April 04, 2014, 01:49:57 AM
To be completely fair, fewer spells doesn't really bother me, and the "fuck it, let's dump a bunch of these goddamn abilities out the back window" streamlining is something I think is an overall good thing. But that paragraph in the healer section seriously did make me laugh out loud.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Miasma on April 04, 2014, 05:38:58 AM
Healers are also losing thier instant cast spells, because pvp.  I would also be okay with fewer spells but they should have done so by combining them, like my straight heals now have a regen or shield built in (non mastery based).

"Healing will be more fun because you no longer have the stress of carrying a bad group, since you can't anymore.  Surely once people start dying over and over they will learn to use their own defensive talents and not stand in fire.  It's not like they would blame you when they die right?"


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on April 04, 2014, 05:42:28 AM
Yeah slapping a cast time on a bunch of shit would probably be the thing that pissed me off most, were I still playing my paladin. I spent years being stationary, don't make me go baaaack. :((((((


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ironwood on April 04, 2014, 07:27:13 AM
Those patch notes are a clusterfuck.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lantyssa on April 04, 2014, 08:20:39 AM
Cripes.  Did they fire the C-team to bring in the D-team?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on April 04, 2014, 09:05:59 AM
I'll add my 2 coppers on these notes. RANT TIME! For starters, holy shit that took forever to tell us about absolutely nothing in terms of new features, other than the Garrisons.

- Stat squish was necessary and doesn't bother me at all. Frankly, it took too long to get here. They should have done this with MoP, as numbers were already unwieldy. The billion HP boss was coming at that rate.

- "Active mitigation has worked well for tanking" THE FUCK IT HAS. What are you seeing some massive increase in tanking that the rest of us aren't noticing? Because when the tanks dropped in LFR in many of my groups, you were proper fucked. The changes to stat tanking will kill any chance of people wanting to tank. Your gear was semi-useless before with the active model. Now, when they take out both dodge and parry from gear AND remove the gains from strength and agility stats? Fuck you, tanks, you're button mashers now. No amount of gearing can save you. In a gear game, they have removed the gear factor, and that's braindead stupid.

- Getting rid of hit and expertise is fine. They were horrible stats. It's funny that they've completely reversed course on expertise, a stat they added in the ZA patch because they didn't like people get skill bonuses from weapon types. I'm not even sure you have to skill weapons anymore.

- "We’re planning several interconnected changes designed to provide better-tuned gameplay for healers and improve the healing dynamic in PvP." That sentence along should scare the shit out of every PvE player everywhere. Always. I don't have to even read what comes after it, healers are getting fucked. This is known.

- "To that end, we’re buffing heals less than we’re increasing player health. Heals will be deliberately less potent compared to health pools than before the item squish. Additionally, as gear improves, the scaling rates of health and healing will now be very similar, so the relative power of any given healing spell shouldn’t climb so much over the course of this expansion. For those concerned about what this means for raiding, don’t worry—we’re taking all of these changes into account when designing Raid content for Warlords of Draenor." Yep, I was right. We're going to improve healing dynamics by making you less powerful. ARE YOU NOT GRATEFUL?!?!

- Getting rid of abilities. THANK. GOD. There is nothing worse for MMOs today than having 4 bars of shit on the screen with 3 of them being situational. There's literally no need for that. Shame on the games that launch that way, but at least WoW has the excuse of 8 years of bloat. This is long overdue. In that regard, I'm happy about the warrior stuff. Shouts being an hour should have been the way it was since release. We've been complaining about this for 8 freaking years. Getting rid of the other abilities is fine because there are so many other options that do the same thing.

- Lulz they want to root healers in place again. Attacking healers and tanks in the patch notes? Brilliant idea Blizzard, those fuckers were overpopulated.

- "The changes to tanking made in Mists of Pandaria turned out quite well, overall." LIES, LIAR LYING LIES YOU COCKSTABBING PIGFUCKERS.

- "We like that tanks can provide meaningful DPS to their group, however, it swung wildly based on the fight, even surpassing the dedicated damage dealers occasionally." What? Why do you care about DPS. Also, you used the world meaningful. The word that should not be used in any decision.

- "Then, to keep tank DPS meaningful, we'll be raising their damage, since it would be meager with no Vengeance Attack Power (Vengeance accounted for 70-90% of a tank's damage on high-tank-damage fights in Mists)" OMG they said it again. Meaningful DPS. We're tanking, not DPSing. I don't want to think about my DPS. It shouldn't be an issue. We have two specs now so we don't have to tank in the regular world. AAAAAARGH.

- Apparently you can now frontstab a backstab. That's QOL for you there, kids. The glyphs thing will only piss of crafters, and I don't care. "To that end, we're removing the direct combat benefits of Professions." Professions were good so now, not so much. Only Blizzard could right a note like that.

- Warriors: They are changing arms again. They aren't happy with the arms rotation. I'm trying to recall a time outside of Wrath that arms has been done right, and I'm struggling. At least they are removing banners, which was a fucking stupid idea in the first place. We have shouts already, why are we adding in this level of complexity? We're not shamans. They are making protection warriors stack haste and crit now. My mind boggles. We've gone from tanks to being another dps class with more responsibility. I want to fist-fuck the guy who did this.

So this? This is what we're getting? A series of nerfs and more of the same? The only big change of garrisons warranted less than 100 words in this ridiculous tome of bullshit. Fuck this xpac and it's inflated price for nothing but pain and misery to the players.






Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Fabricated on April 04, 2014, 09:12:27 AM
Lmao; just make it so each class is like a MOBA character and only has enough abilities to map to like 4-5 keys and get it the fuck over with.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Hutch on April 04, 2014, 09:37:52 AM
And here. We. Go.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/13423478/warlords-of-draenor%E2%84%A2-alpha-patch-notes-4-3-2014

TL/DR: Balancing PvP in a game based on leveling and gearing is very difficult*, but we're going to keep making PvE players cope with our struggle to balance PvP anyway.

* here at Blizzard we're not allowed to acknowledge that it's impossible


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Mithas on April 04, 2014, 09:51:46 AM
I still don't understand why they don't separate abilities. You've got a PvE tab and a PvP tab. Problem solved.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Soulflame on April 04, 2014, 10:29:34 AM
It'll be fun to watch them backpedal off of this stupid shit for the nth time.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rendakor on April 04, 2014, 10:45:22 AM
It'll be fun to watch them backpedal off of this stupid shit for the nth time.
When, 6 months after launch?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Soulflame on April 04, 2014, 10:50:15 AM
I'd guess within 6 months.

What they're proposing looks painfully like what they've proposed again and again.  It certainly seems that they really want to develop for the playerbase they want, not the playerbase they have.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on April 04, 2014, 11:00:29 AM
At this point it makes no sense to play a WoW expansion at launch at all. Most of the content is barely available, they are pushing their ridiculous restrictions yet again, and people are farming the same areas.

After 6 months, the tend to patch the fun back in, for reasons I'll never understand. I'm just tired of doing the dance, especially if they are charging more for the privilege.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ironwood on April 04, 2014, 11:17:25 AM
Best to just give up. It feels cleaner.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Soulflame on April 04, 2014, 11:26:11 AM
Oh, I have.  I just like watching the train wreck from the sidelines.

Blizzard:  Watch me pull a hardcore game system for WoW out of my hat!
Playerbase:  Again?  That trick never works!
Blizzard:  This time for sure!  Presto!
*that trick doesn't work*
Blizzard:  Now, here's something we hope you'll really like!


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Hutch on April 04, 2014, 11:35:22 AM
It'll be fun to watch them backpedal off of this stupid shit for the nth time.
When, 6 months after launch?

Or net minus 2 million subs, whichever comes first.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: raydeen on April 04, 2014, 11:37:03 AM
Oh, I have.  I just like watching the train wreck from the sidelines.

Blizzard:  Watch me pull a hardcore game system for WoW out of my hat!
Playerbase:  Again?  That trick never works!
Blizzard:  This time for sure!  Presto!
*that trick doesn't work*
Blizzard:  Now, here's something we hope you'll really like!

I think the line was/is 'Oops! Must be the wrong hat!' Or something to that effect. Been a while since I got my Rocky and Bullwinkle on. Now I want to go watch that, and Underdog, and Tennessee Tuxedo and...


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Soulflame on April 04, 2014, 11:39:46 AM
What Rocky and Bullwinkle say varies.  I kind of did an aggregate of the ones I remember.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rokal on April 04, 2014, 11:54:11 AM
The changes to stat tanking will kill any chance of people wanting to tank. Your gear was semi-useless before with the active model. Now, when they take out both dodge and parry from gear AND remove the gains from strength and agility stats? Fuck you, tanks, you're button mashers now. No amount of gearing can save you. In a gear game, they have removed the gear factor, and that's braindead stupid.

Tank gear is going to be more useful now since it will overlap with stats on DPS gear. The example they gave was that Warriors will want crit because every white crit gives 100% chance to parry the next attack. Monks already work this way with white crits proccing elusive brew for dodge.

Here is what crit might do for a prot warrior in WoD:
-More Rage
-Parry Procs
-Bigger self-heals/absorbs/threat

Here is what dodge did for a prot warrior in MoP:
-slightly increased dodge chance

- "Then, to keep tank DPS meaningful, we'll be raising their damage, since it would be meager with no Vengeance Attack Power (Vengeance accounted for 70-90% of a tank's damage on high-tank-damage fights in Mists)" OMG they said it again. Meaningful DPS. We're tanking, not DPSing. I don't want to think about my DPS. It shouldn't be an issue. We have two specs now so we don't have to tank in the regular world. AAAAAARGH.

They're lowering tank dps because they agree with you that tanks shouldn't be playing the class to top DPS meters. I'm sad about this but it's probably for the best.

Hahahahahaha. Thanks for saving me $40; nothing in there makes me want to ever touch this game again.

*$50  :awesome_for_real:

I do not like most of those patch notes. Seems like a lot of changes for the sake of PvP which is and will always be a dumb activity in a gear-based game. There's a lot more class homogenization going on in WoD, which is the opposite of the direction they said they wanted to move in (under Ghostcrawler anyway). Lots of interesting abilities getting removed too.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on April 04, 2014, 12:00:01 PM
Lmao; just make it so each class is like a MOBA character and only has enough abilities to map to like 4-5 keys and get it the fuck over with.

This is EXACTLY what I thought and pretty clearly the reasoning behind a lot of the changes.  "We want WoW to be more ARPG/ MOBA and less MMO.  We think you'll all be pleased."

Ha.  :awesome_for_real:

Hunter changes are depressing only because of the removal of game-long abilities like Aspect of the Hawk.  Of all the classes, they and Shamen were the two that had the most ability bloat and player bases begging for greater differentation.  Fuck, Hunters have been begging for fewer buttons since Burning Crusade at least.  The proposed changes don't seem too terrible on the face.  Which probably means they'll be goddamn awful.

All the crowd control removal is just hilarious.  They will never get this right, ever. Some dev must have been raging at getting CCd in arenas for them to be removing it almost entirely. L2P, Noob.



Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Soulflame on April 04, 2014, 12:06:46 PM
I am pleased.  It confirms my decision to avoid the game.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on April 04, 2014, 12:27:14 PM
One day they'll finally put in two different rulesets for pvp and pve, and nobody will care because the subs will already be long gone.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on April 04, 2014, 12:45:11 PM
All this bitching in the bitching thread  :awesome_for_real:

I think the stat changes blow would have been less impactful if they had mentioned the new stats they putting in.

http://www.wowhead.com/news=224546/gear-changes-in-warlords-of-draenor


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on April 04, 2014, 12:47:21 PM
Initial Dev feedback and detailed talent changes:

http://www.wowhead.com/news=233226/warlords-of-draenor-changed-level-15-90-talents-blue-tweets-on-patch-notes


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ironwood on April 04, 2014, 12:56:20 PM
Undead breathing a typo.  Lol.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Hutch on April 04, 2014, 02:09:44 PM
Quote
Hunter pets no longer have crowd-control abilities.

rrrrRRRRRRRR  :tantrum: :mob:

They had it just right. You could finally collect more hunter pets, really, than you would ever use.
You could switch your pets between tenacity/cunning/ferocity at will.

I could, if I so chose, have an awesome spider pet who could tank for me, and also trap my (PvE) enemies with his web.

Less choices, less fun. I don't want to play a MOBA, and I've never really been such a big fan of WoW's PvP game, either. This sucks.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on April 04, 2014, 02:48:57 PM
The funniest thing in the last page or so is Paelos & Rendakor both saying the changes suck, but for completely opposite reasons.

Me? I'm waiting until I actually play it before I decide (I'm fully expecting a bunch of the perks to get nerfed), but I'd have to agree that the healing changes do look regressive and dumb as hell at first glance.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rendakor on April 04, 2014, 03:09:51 PM
I'm unlikely to play it unless they send beta invites to people without active WoW subs, so judging it based on the notes is all I've got. None of the upcoming MMOs really excite me so I was kinda hoping WoW would get it's shit together now that Blizzard is focusing on it again instead of Titan. That, uh, hasn't happened.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on April 04, 2014, 04:08:27 PM
I was hoping they would move away from the tanking model that's basically run off anybody who tanked in the past. Looks unlikely, since they are doubling down on the stat changes.

None of this changes the fact that it's all window dressing on very little actual content.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on April 04, 2014, 04:32:06 PM
very little actual content.
(http://image.blingee.com/images19/content/output/000/000/000/7c9/806056894_1053449.gif)


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on April 04, 2014, 04:57:07 PM
Should I just start with the fact there's no new races or classes, and they are rehashing TBC? Or do you want more for your trolling efforts?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on April 04, 2014, 05:11:04 PM
And this is where I point out they're redoing every race except three(/one) and that the grand total of zones which are going to be even vaguely similar to TBC comes to maybe two (and I suspect Taladar/Terrokar is going to be quite different anyway).

I mean, you do know that two of the TBC zones straight up don't exist in WoD, right? And most of the ones that do are wildly different. I mean, unless you are some sort of congenital cretin you cannot possibly look at 'tropical, carnivorous rainforest' and think 'Yep, that's the Hellfire Peninsula I remember".


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on April 04, 2014, 05:20:23 PM
They redid everything in Cataclysm too. How'd that turn out again? Oh right, it was panned and they lost the most subs ever. Or like how they've redone all the raids before, or the dungeons, or various other redos.

I don't know how I can point out that redoing content for the umpteenth time by Blizzard counts as new. They do not get credit for updating models 8 years after the fact. But no, even more than that we're reusing the same Big Bad, and we're doing it in another semi-close version of a place you may have seen. Oh the joy! What adventures we'll have in this fucked up timeline.

You're the resident fanboi for this nonsense, so keep shining on there, but when even Rokal is questioning the content of this xpac, you look ridiculous. MOP was at the very least original. This isn't.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rendakor on April 04, 2014, 05:46:19 PM
New race skins don't count as content.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on April 04, 2014, 05:47:17 PM
They redid everything in Cataclysm too.
So you do think "tropical rainforest" = "hellfire-blasted rubble"?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on April 04, 2014, 06:33:53 PM
Whether you agree with Paelos or not on the "retread" thing (and for the record, I don't think it's a retread of TBC ... the attraction of the new areas is going to be "this is what orcplanet looked like before everything got totally ruined, neat" not "Outland: AGAIN!"), that is how it comes across to a lot of people, and that's the problem. You can stamp your foot that it'll look different all you want, but for people who wandered off and were glancing over this expansion thinking about maybe coming back, the first impression is going to be "I already WENT to Outland. And I thought they killed Garrosh already. No new races or classes? They want me to pay how much for this?!"

And for people like me, it's also "fuck I am so fucking sick of orcorcorcorcorcorcs." Orcs are the new trolls.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on April 04, 2014, 06:46:51 PM
Sjofn has the right of it. Even if it turns out totally different, it comes off like they're redoing stuff because the idea itself is ridiculous.

Why not create a new island based expansion with Pirates and boats? It would draw in people who like WoW and pirates. But no, we get this instead.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on April 04, 2014, 08:59:37 PM
The entire idea for the expansion is creatively bankrupt.  Any efforts created toward that goal are already tainted by proxy.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ingmar on April 04, 2014, 09:40:32 PM
Time travel is the ultimate in "we're out of ideas".


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rokal on April 04, 2014, 10:48:40 PM
I was hoping they would move away from the tanking model that's basically run off anybody who tanked in the past. Looks unlikely, since they are doubling down on the stat changes.

It's entirely possible that, according to metrics that aren't "do tanks want to run LFR when flex offers a similar & superior experience?", the active mitigation model was well-liked by the majority of the playerbase.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Fabricated on April 04, 2014, 10:49:46 PM
There's a lot of interesting places they could've taken the story but a weirdo alternate timeline Draenor isn't that interesting and even if they redeem and/or kill off Garrosh early he was a really uninteresting character who was unlikable in the bad way.

You could've done a really crazy Emerald Dream expansion with a giant crazy plant worlds, or a pirate/high seas themed expansion in whatever south of the maelstrom, or get with the crazy spelljammer shit beyond even TBC and have us fighting the Titans in space on a mechanical planet, or just start wrapping up the fucking burning legion and have us go kill them off in Argus or where-ever

but nah, let's just do the time warp so we can easily handwave away everything in the end and declare the expansion a wash story wise outside of killing Valen (btw he dies I guess in WoD because lol Alliance can't have a near god for a faction leader) while trying to say "hey folks remember TBC? Huh? Do ya? Yeah this is like that place again but before it got all fucked up. Hey hardcore people who never quit here's some knob slobbering we're 100% sure won't drive away our far more valuable customers this time. Don't worry, we got this."

If your new expansions keep typically consisting of ripping out systems you've introduced in the more recent expansions before it you are complete fuckups.

edit: also the Garrison thing is completely lol-worthy because it's another grindy daily thing that'll be used for this expansion and then never ever ever touched again afterwards as people quickly level past it. People at least see questing content, dungeons, and raids from old expansions either while leveling or retro-running for transmogs or to fuck around on alts/etc. The time they spent on the 5-mans, questing, and raids in MoP will be justified in the future. The tillers won't be.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rendakor on April 04, 2014, 11:21:11 PM
Yea thematically this expansion makes no sense. We've been waiting for Emerald Dream since WotLK, and figured with the work they did in Cata they'd easily have the tech to phase the whole world into the Dream. Instead we got Pandas (which felt about as random as a pirate expansion would feel to me), and now this. And while Simond has a point that the zones aren't going to look much like their TBC counterparts, that's actually kinda worse. They get all of the bad press of "reusing content lulz" without saving any development time by actually reusing content.

Garrosh is such a shit character, who never should have been anything more than a bit of backstory in TBC as "Grom's pussy kid". Instead, he's been a major focus of 3 expansions now: becoming Warchief (and killing the cool Tauren guy) in Cata, endboss of MoP and endboss again maybe or something whatever in WoD. It's the whole Thrall thing but like, a dickhead instead of Jesus Sue.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on April 05, 2014, 03:49:50 AM
Data mining of the Alpha client has begun.  MMO-Champ and Wowhead have articles up now.

The new glyphs are neat, and the new enchantments + stat lines confirm a lot of the new special stats that are coming down the pike (Lifesteal, Readiness, Multistrike, Avoidence, etc.)


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on April 05, 2014, 05:18:10 AM
Quote
Shadowmoon Valley

    The Tainted Woods
    Akama's Scar
    The Iron March
    Grommar
    Gar'mak Quarry
    [PH] Alliance Bastion
        [PH] Alliance Bastion Lvl 1
        [PH] Alliance Bastion Lvl 2
        [PH] Alliance Bastion Lvl 3
    The Burial Fields
    Shaz'gul
    Light's Fall
    Teluuna Observatory
    Starfall Outpost
    Gul'var
    Watcher's Den
    Secluded Glade
    [PH] - SMV - Alliance Garrison
    West Camp
    [UNUSED]Hidey-Hole
    Gloomshade Grove
    The Shadow Rise
    Indentation Landing
    Twilight Glade
    Den of Despair
    Terrace of the Stars
    Shadowmoon Overlook
    Mount Teluuna
    Vindicator Ledge
    Darktide Roost
    Plains of Serenity
    Moonflower Valley
    Embaari Village
    Karabor
    Path of the Light
    Gardens of Eternity
    Tranquil Court
    Amphitheater of Echoes
    Karabor Harbor
    Palemoon Village
    Pilgrim's Sojourn
    Bloodthorn Cave
    The Verdant Mire
    Ancestor's Grotto
    Waning Crescent
    Moonwillow Peak
    Bloodthorn Hill
    The Nightmarsh
    Dyvari Overgrowth
    Glade of Shadows
    Shadowmoon Mine


Gorgrond

    Explosion Town [NOT TEMP NAME]
    Bastion Rise
    Laughing Skull
    Tailthrasher Basin
    Skullchief's Stand
    Prototype Proving Grounds
    Blackrock Station
    The Forgotten Caves
    Blackrock Pipeworks
    Dry Riverbed
    Belcher Cauldron
    Draenataur Cavern
    Stonemaul Slave Camp
    Stonemaul Slave Mine
    Spinebloom Spires
    Gorgrond Garrison Area
    Smokebelcher Depot
    Blackrock Foundry
    Lake Oasis
    Gronn Cave
    Highland Pass
    Elemental Hollow
    Blackrock Shipyard
    Tankworks
    Shrubby Plateau
    Salt Flats
    Blackrock Foundry Base
    Gorgrond Pass
    The Iron Front
    The Screaming Geyser
    Emberfall Lake
    Ulon Oasis
    The Binding Trench
    Spineling Crevice
    The Sulfic Refuge
    Canyon Pass
    Throne of Stonemaul
    The Broken Crater
    Thaelin's Retreat
    Blook's Overlook


Spires of Arak

    Lower Quarter
    Grand Spire
    The Overlook
    [PH] Spires Coast
    Spires Garrison
    [PH] Spires Dry Region
    [PH] SpiresThorny Region
    Lower Skettis
    Dreadtalon Peak
    Ravenskar
    Veil Terokk
    Living Explosion [PH]

   
Tanaan Jungle

    No subzones


Nagrand

    Sabermaw
    Warsong Lookout
    Gol'gor
    Wor'var
    Prowler Ridge
    Yrel's Watch
    Riverside Post
    The Stones of Prophecy
    Lok-rath
    Nagrand Corral
    Kil'sorrow Fortress
    Grommashar
    Gates of Grommashar
    Ironfist Harbor
    Clowder Rise
    Ancestral Grounds
    Ring of Trials
    Telaar
    Sabermaw Den
    Telaari Station

Faralohn

    Brawnbelly Barracks
    Digger Flats
    The Pits
    Blightstone Quarry
    The Iron Tower
    [PH] Test Zone
    [PH] Test Zone 2


Grommar

    The Shadow Tower
    Shadowmoon Grotto
    Grommar Hold
    Grommar Docks


Bloodmaul Slag Mines

    No subzones


[PH] Heroes Through Time

    No subzones


Draenor Auchindoun

    No subzones


Shadowmoon Burial Grounds

    No subzones


Talador

    No subzones


Blasted Lands

    Shattered Beachhead
    Shattered Landing
    The Shattered Front
    Okril'lon Hold
    The Forge Grounds
    Dreadmaul Rise


[PH] Ashran - World PvP Zone

    Ashran - Center Lane
    [PH] Ashran - The Arena


Blackrock Shipyard

    No subzones


Bonetown Scenario

    No subzones


Blackrock Train Depot

    No subzones


Spires of Arak

    No subzones


Highmaul Raid

    No subzones


Tanaan Jungle

    The Dark Portal
    Heartblood Tangle
    The Bleeding Altar
    Kargathar Proving Grounds
    Heartblood
    Umbral Halls
    Blackrock Quarry
    The Path of Glory
    Iron Bastion


Blackrock Foundry

    No subzones


[PH] Ashran [TRANSITION ZONE]

    No subzones


Remains of Xandros

    No subzones


Defense of Karabor

    No subzones

   
Frostfire Ridge

    Frostwind Dunes
    Throm'var
    Daggermaw Ravine
    The Savage Crag
    Icescar Boneyard
    Lashwind Cleft
    The Cracking Plains
    Grombolash
    The Boneslag
    Stonefang Outpost
    Icewind Drifts
    Grom'gar
    The First Anvil
    Ascent of Frostfire
    Refuse Pit
    The Ice Forge
    The Forge Gates
    Giant's Fall
    Grimfrost Hill
    Turgall's Den
    Sootstained Mines
    Sootstained Mining Camp
    Grulloc's Lair
    Bladespire Fortress
    Circle of Blood
    Hall of the Great Hunt
    Wor'gol
    Farseer's Rock
    Bladespire Throne
    Reeg'ak's Nest
    Melted Burrow
    Gormaul Watch
    Eastwatch
    Mor'dul Tower
    Pit of the Devourer
    Frostboar Drifts
    Butcher's Rise
    Gronnstalkers' Cache
    Pool of Visions
    Bladespire Ravine
    Stonefang Ridge
    Thunder Pass
    Windswept Lowland
    Bloodmaul Territory
    Bloodmaul Slag Mines
    Iron Siegeworks
    Bones of Agurak
    Agurak's Fall
    Frostwall
    Snowfall Alcove
    Coldsnap Bluffs
    Frost Den
    Frostbite Hollow
    Sleeper's Lair
    Bloodmaul Stronghold
    Thunder Pass
    Ruins of Ata'gar
    The Gloomspire
    Iceblister Den
    Darkspear's Edge
    Forbidden Glacier
    Blade's Edge Mountain
    Southwind Cliffs
    The Bleeding Mountain
    The Burning Glacier
    Wolf's Stand
    Iron Waystation
    Lowland Cave


Talador

    Gul'rok
    Shattrath Metropolitan Area
    Court of Souls
    Liadrin's Watch
    Deathweb Hollow
    Telmor
    Aruuna
    Anchorite's Sojourn
    Veil Shadar
    Duskfall Island
    The Pilgrim's Road
    Terokkar Refuge
    Sharptusk Lake
    Kuuros Farm
    [PH] Talador Beach
    [PH] Bluff Base
    Tuurem
    [PH] Logging Camp
    Aruuna Crystal Mine
    Light's Rest
    Tomb of Souls
    Shattrath
    Jorune Mine
    Ango'rosh Ruins
    Seat of Depravity
    Sunsworn Camp
    Retribution Point
    The Burning Front
    Exarch's Refuge
    Garden of K'ure
    Aruuna Desolation
    Tomb of Lights

Totally the same zones as TBC with nothing new.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on April 05, 2014, 06:46:26 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/4yDPQrL.gif)


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Malakili on April 05, 2014, 07:01:37 AM
I agree with Sjofn and Paelos.  The main problem is that for someone like me who skipped MoP (my first missed expansion for WoW, even after not really playing it "seriously" since TBC) this expansion doesn't really have that "come see all this cool new stuff we've been doing since you were gone."  Hell, I've been known to occasionally cave on WoW and resub on a whim over the years, and a new expansion could tip me towards it still (even if I'd have to go back and pick up MoP also) if they got it right.

But in the end all this expansion announcement has done since the beginning is confirm for me that there isn't anything interesting to see here.  Whether or not that's a perfect analysis of the situation, with Diablo 3 being "fixed", Hex coming, and more games than time to begin with I need to at least be excited for something to give it a look at this point.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Tannhauser on April 05, 2014, 07:22:56 AM
At least with MoP there were folks out there clamoring for pandas.  I didn't hear anyone go "Hey, remember that lame place the orcs come from?  I wish we could go back there with some sort of handwavey bullshit."

It just feels to me like they are out of ideas and are going in circles. 


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on April 05, 2014, 08:36:25 AM
I was hoping they would move away from the tanking model that's basically run off anybody who tanked in the past. Looks unlikely, since they are doubling down on the stat changes.

It's entirely possible that, according to metrics that aren't "do tanks want to run LFR when flex offers a similar & superior experience?", the active mitigation model was well-liked by the majority of the playerbase.

Ok bear with me a bit here, because you've become more realistic about this kind of stuff over the last couple years. It doesn't matter that the current people playing tanks like something, if the overall population of tanks including people who used to tank stopped doing it. Of course the people still playing tanks like it or at least tolerate it. You can't use that as a standard. The Standard should be where the majority of your playerbase encounters your content, and that's LFR. If tanks don't want to even bother with LFR, or if tanks as a population have fallen off so that LFR can't function? That's the biggest problem of the game, and the biggest problem to retention.

If Flex is the answer, and I think it could be, then you have to remove LFR and make it the standard. If you're keeping LFR, you can't make the more demanding jobs like healing and tanking even worse to play mechanically.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on April 05, 2014, 08:58:58 AM
The main problem is that for someone like me who skipped MoP
I'd say the main problem there is that you skipped a very good expansion.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rendakor on April 05, 2014, 09:08:55 AM
Nowhere in his post does it say he skipped WotLK.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Mithas on April 05, 2014, 09:26:25 AM
Nowhere in his post does it say he skipped WotLK.

MoP all in all was a pretty good expansion. It gets a lot of grief (lol pandas), but it contains the single best leveling experience so far in WoW. It just really sucks to do twice.

They also did have to patch in the fun, but that seems par for the course now.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on April 05, 2014, 09:33:41 AM
There's nothing inherently bad about MoP other than the fact they started it poorly as they do all the xpacs. The daily grind with raid point items hidden behind factions that were unlocked by other factions? That was one of their more bone-headed decisions. I would hope they wouldn't make that mistake again in WoD, but they probably will. Cycle continues.

That being said, there was very little that MoP brought that was great, or wasn't implemented at the back end of Cataclysm as scramble to get back subs. The absolute best thing I think MoP gave the populace was pet battles, which opened up an entirely new addictive element to the game. Flex raiding on the back end is also a great idea.

Overall Mists was slower to be adopted, and 2013 saw 1.9 sub losses in the first two quarters. It was okay, but it wasn't very good by any stretch.

EDIT: Personally, I played for about 3-4 months and then quit. And I got the xpac for basically free by D3 AH sales at the time. My experience was that my guild and friends were already gone by month 3. I came back at the back end of 2013, and it was better, but Timeless Isle got old when I kitted out my character and LFR lost it's luster.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on April 05, 2014, 11:33:48 AM
That being said, there was very little that MoP brought that was great,
The content?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Selby on April 05, 2014, 11:36:31 AM
That being said, there was very little that MoP brought that was great,
The content?
After you hit 90, there was pretty much nothing interesting to do unless you had a guild or group of people to play with.  Killed my desire to play pretty quickly.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on April 05, 2014, 12:21:01 PM
That being said, there was very little that MoP brought that was great,
The content?

The initial content was so gated and annoying that people quit in droves after Q1 2013. I would wager most people that came back to the game after the fact never even saw much of the Thunder King stuff at all, since it happened in the middle period between Blizzard being cockblockers, and the Timeless Isle. The last raid was fun, but it's the last raid. It should be the most fun since it's usually when you battle the Big Bad finally.

Is there a reason to sub until Blizzard finally releases all the raids and content, since they gate the crap out of it in the beginning? I would say not really. If anything you'd have more fun skipping the entirety of MOP up to patch 5.4, buying the xpac at a discount, and subbing for 3 months to enjoy the good parts of the game. Blizzard doesn't release the fun until a year after the fact.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on April 05, 2014, 12:32:04 PM
That being said, there was very little that MoP brought that was great,
The content?

The initial content was so gated and annoying
E: Nevermind. You're not looking for anything other than excuses to bitch.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on April 05, 2014, 12:55:28 PM
Read the title numbnuts.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Fabricated on April 05, 2014, 02:49:56 PM
lol if you thought the initial faction grind of MoP was good.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on April 05, 2014, 03:13:25 PM
That may have been my problem with MoP, I tried it too early in the cycle (I think I messed with it just before the first patch? I can't remember any more). What I remember is doing a bunch of quests on my paladin, only being about halfway to 86, and not being at all interested in what was happening story-wise. So I did a bunch of pet battles (totally fun!) and quit. I've been considering giving it another month or two now that (I assume) the high levels go by faster and the cockblocks are gone/lessened at 90. Can't decide.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on April 05, 2014, 03:47:24 PM
http://www.wowhead.com/news=233324/technical-game-designer-chadd-celestalon-nervig-talks-warlords-of-draenor

I encourage everyone to read those interview notes.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on April 05, 2014, 04:06:47 PM
lol if you thought the initial faction grind of MoP was good.
Nah, that sucked but reducing the content of MoP (levelling & max) to "Well the dailies in 5.0 were bad therefore the expansion was the Worst Thing Ever" is p. dumb.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on April 05, 2014, 06:40:20 PM
lol if you thought the initial faction grind of MoP was good.
Nah, that sucked but reducing the content of MoP (levelling & max) to "Well the dailies in 5.0 were bad therefore the expansion was the Worst Thing Ever" is p. dumb.

Very few people will say it's the worst thing ever. That spot falls to Cataclysm and not many outside of Rokal are willing to argue that point anymore. MoP was average with many stupid front-loaded decisions that caused them to lose subs. The back end was much better, but it raises the point of why people should buy in on the front end if this is Blizzard's M.O.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on April 05, 2014, 06:46:34 PM
I don't expect them to rehash the end game of 5.0s faction grind.  But IMO, if they plan to go full tilt with Timeless Isle style gameplay, I'd rather have the faction grind back.  I'm cool with the RNG gods dictating when/if/what gear I get.  Not so much with general gameplay.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on April 05, 2014, 06:53:42 PM
I don't expect them to rehash the end game of 5.0s faction grind.  But IMO, if they plan to go full tilt with Timeless Isle style gameplay, I'd rather have the faction grind back.  I'm cool with the RNG gods dictating when/if/what gear I get.  Not so much with general gameplay.

I agree that Timeless Isle on the front end is silly. I don't mind a little faction rep for some neat rewards like a ring, or a trinket, or some consumables/patterns. It was putting the valor gear on there that ruined the party, and then spreading it out, and then putting it behind a single faction to open factions.

I don't think they'd do that exact method again, but at this point they have to gate something somehow so people don't burn down their slow-ass content cycle. It's just a matter of the mechanics.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on April 05, 2014, 06:54:45 PM
http://www.wowhead.com/news=233324/technical-game-designer-chadd-celestalon-nervig-talks-warlords-of-draenor

I encourage everyone to read those interview notes.

Quote
As we suspected, Draenor Perks will be learned randomly between 91 and 100. The reason for their randomness is to provide variety, and also to remove the problem of choice, and the pressure of making the wrong choice.

Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

They took it out of Diablo because they were worried people were going to bitch about random rune drops.... then they go and put in the the game NOT about random chance.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on April 05, 2014, 11:26:15 PM
Garrison data: http://www.wowhead.com/news=233351/warlords-of-draenor-garrisons-buildings-and-leveling-perks-new-class-and-pet-abi

Scroll past the pet stuff, unless you're a Hunter that cares  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on April 06, 2014, 01:55:28 AM
I need to keep reminding myself that the Horde Garrison buildings are going to be stupid and ugly and out of character for my paladin and I don't need to try it out.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: apocrypha on April 06, 2014, 05:50:43 AM
I hate myself for doing this but....

(http://i.imgur.com/w2iKXOf.jpg)


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Draegan on April 06, 2014, 08:23:24 AM
Lmao; just make it so each class is like a MOBA character and only has enough abilities to map to like 4-5 keys and get it the fuck over with.

I would play that game. Probably would be the best design decision they ever made.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Draegan on April 06, 2014, 08:28:55 AM
Whether you agree with Paelos or not on the "retread" thing (and for the record, I don't think it's a retread of TBC ... the attraction of the new areas is going to be "this is what orcplanet looked like before everything got totally ruined, neat" not "Outland: AGAIN!"), that is how it comes across to a lot of people, and that's the problem. You can stamp your foot that it'll look different all you want, but for people who wandered off and were glancing over this expansion thinking about maybe coming back, the first impression is going to be "I already WENT to Outland. And I thought they killed Garrosh already. No new races or classes? They want me to pay how much for this?!"

And for people like me, it's also "fuck I am so fucking sick of orcorcorcorcorcorcs." Orcs are the new trolls.

Aren't like half the people that were going to play this not even born when TBC came out?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on April 06, 2014, 11:00:50 AM
Lmao; just make it so each class is like a MOBA character and only has enough abilities to map to like 4-5 keys and get it the fuck over with.

I would play that game. Probably would be the best design decision they ever made.

I would too, tbh. I don't think there needs to be more than a bar of abilities for any MMO, especially since so many abilities are just doing the same thing on different cool downs with slightly different variations.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Malakili on April 06, 2014, 11:57:45 AM

I would too, tbh. I don't think there needs to be more than a bar of abilities for any MMO, especially since so many abilities are just doing the same thing on different cool downs with slightly different variations.

The WoW I remember had me putting at least 3 ranks of healing touch on my primary bar so I could downrank for maximum efficiency most of the time.  :awesome_for_real:

I was actually upset when they took downranking out.  I'm that guy.  Oh god, I'm that guy.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on April 06, 2014, 12:18:02 PM
There's a loud minority of people on the forums that want downranking back. I can see why they did take it out, because the fault was with the system that may downranking important in the first place.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rendakor on April 06, 2014, 12:24:33 PM
I never used downranking, but I'm certainly the guy who likes 4 bars of abilities.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Malakili on April 06, 2014, 12:36:06 PM
There's a loud minority of people on the forums that want downranking back. I can see why they did take it out, because the fault was with the system that may downranking important in the first place.

I played a lot after it was gone and didn't really miss it in practice, but I do like choices because I do think decision points are interesting.  Taking WoW down to a MOBA level of abilities doesn't automatically mean it is going to have MOBA-like excitement in combat.  MOBAs get their decision points from other things, map objectives, last hitting, trading health with champions in lane, etc.  But a game like WoW doesn't have that, so ability use/choice is one of the engaging things, so there's sort of two ways to take it.

1) Say, well, I don't care if it is that engaging, I just want to zone out, listen to music/podcast/chat with friends on Teamspeak while I'm questing/farming. That is what most MMOs turn into when you aren't in a dungeon, and leave the part where you have to be really engaged for group content.

or

2) Totally revamp combat and the way gameplay works on a moment to moment basis to make it more interesting.

A lot of games have tried for 2 and in my opinion failed to make it actually interesting.  See: All games using the "action oriented combat" buzzword.  I'm all for actiony combat, but when you apply it to the same old pull a monster, kill him pacing of an MMO it usually just feels tedious to me.  

I actually thought Champions Online did combat pretty well with active blocking, groups of bad guys so you are fighting multiple things at once, etc, having enough abilities to be interesting, but not so many that I need a ton of bars, and having actual different outcomes even when soloing depending on ability choices.  That did depend a lot on how you built your character though.  The game had other major problems, but it's combat wasn't one of them for me.

Ninja Edit:  But Champions lacked severely in making group play interesting to me, there was almost no difference in playing in a group vs. playing solo - which meant people almost never played as a group in my experience.  Dungeons were about impossible to find a group for because the gameplay in groups was a disaster.  So, I think there is at least some correlation between option 1 being for more boring combat while solo, but more interesting combat while in a group, while option 2 is a better solo experience if it is done well, but is hard to parlay into great group gameplay.



Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on April 06, 2014, 03:17:38 PM
EQ2 abilities or GW2 abilities?
I'll take GW2 every time, thanks.

Also: Frogloks!

http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/3891-Warlords-of-Draenor-Alpha-Models

(Okay, 'Goren'. Sure, whatever. Like the 'Saurok' being iksar in all-but-name).


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rendakor on April 06, 2014, 03:29:46 PM
EQ2 abilities or GW2 abilities?
I'll take GW2 every time, thanks.
I'll take EQ2 with no question.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Zetor on April 06, 2014, 03:56:25 PM
EQ2 abilities or GW2 abilities?
I'll take GW2 every time, thanks.
The only winning move is not to play.

EQ2 (insta-85 fury): 3 different combat rezes, 2 OoC rezes, 4 cleanses, 3 hotbars filled with various nukes and heals that you probably didn't use most of the time anyway. An entire bar filled with nothing but 5+min cooldowns, most of them 15+min. An entire bar's worth of buffs.
GW2 (warrior axe/mace + greatsword): "Press 2 and 4 on CD when it's not interrupting the last autoattack. Press 3 at range. Press 5 if you need a stun. Press your utility skills and elite pretty much on cooldown. Switch to greatsword and press 2 when it's up, use 3 and 5 to move around / avoid stuff. But seriously, just let it do the autoattack chain."

(To be fair, GW2 staff elementalist was actually pretty versatile and fun to play with a good number of buttons... that is, if you wanted to do anything except damage, which meant that you were playing the game wrong.  :why_so_serious:)


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Tannhauser on April 06, 2014, 06:12:28 PM
GW2 here as well.  I was doubtful about Diablo 3's skill system but I have to say the runes and changing skills out like that is actually very enjoyable to me.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on April 07, 2014, 12:28:56 AM
GW2's limited set is also way easier to come back months later and pick back up than HELLO HERE ARE FIVE HOTBARS WORTH OF SHIT.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Draegan on April 07, 2014, 12:43:50 PM
TESO probably has the best class design/mechanics in the genre right now. I really really love that system. I like the idea of having a ton of different abilities but only being able to slot a bunch. Forces you to find interesting synergy.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on April 07, 2014, 01:17:12 PM
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/13607366/artcraft-running-of-the-bulls-4-7-2014


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Azazel on April 07, 2014, 03:33:04 PM
I like the new character models. I don't mind them redoing outland. In theory, they're creatively bankrupt, Garrosh is boring, etc. In practice I tend to enjoy poking around zones "how they used to be".

Other than that, the patch notes kill all my enthusiasm for playing my Mage. I'm not at all tempted to start playing my Warrior again - I used to tank as recently as Cata, then in Pandas I finally gave up and went Fury instead and stopped tanking in 5-mans or raids. Then I stopped playing completely around Feb 2013. Hunter and Lock - who were my other max level toons who I LFRed with, I'm not so sure about, mostly because I glossed over the hunter notes and didn't bother reading the Lock ones. Basically, I don't see a compelling reason to resub and learn the systems again. I'm especially unimpressed by the idea of playing a castrated mage.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on April 14, 2014, 12:05:58 PM
Roundup info from this weekend at PAX

http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/3913-WoD-Screenshots-Dev-Interviews-PAX-Beta-Key-Redemption-Issue-Blue-Tweets-DLC-436


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Fabricated on April 14, 2014, 12:47:52 PM
Quote
Berserker Rage doesn't Enrage you anymore
lol


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ironwood on April 14, 2014, 02:15:33 PM
wat


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on April 14, 2014, 03:15:02 PM
Berserker Rage has been renamed Berserker Passive-Aggressiveness.  Tooltips will update in a future patch.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on April 14, 2014, 06:40:58 PM
I need to keep reminding myself that the Horde Garrison buildings are going to be stupid and ugly and out of character for my paladin and I don't need to try it out.
You could always reroll Alliance: http://imgur.com/a/xGkxI


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on April 15, 2014, 08:05:23 PM
I don't need to "reroll" Alliance, I have plenty of those as well (in fact, I played Alliance way more than Horde until Cataclysm rolled around and my guild split between going Full Catass and quitting), it's just the people I know that still play are Horde (or still catass and the odds of me playing with them are low, because meh).  :why_so_serious:


edit: That IS one thing about the Alliance and Horde visually ... human buildings and the Alliance races are generic enough that I could see pretty much all my Alliance people in them without stretching too far. Oh, my night elf hunter might want a purple roof on her inn, my gnomes might want some more gears around, but by and large, it's not too aggressive in its THIS IS A HUMAN STRUCTURE, FUCK THE REST OF YOU.

Orc buildings are not as ... useable in that way, because the Horde is less ... uniform? It fits for orcs. I could see my goblins hanging out in a SPIKES SPIKES SPIKES garrison. But then I start to go "nnngh" with my tauren or trolls or forsaken characters. And blood elves wouldn't be caught dead in that shit.

Does that make sense?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ingmar on April 15, 2014, 08:09:07 PM
The Alliance buildings have the same problem of being thematic for only a couple races, whether or not they happen to be less ugly.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on April 15, 2014, 08:12:42 PM
You missed my ninja edit! I semi-disagree, although obviously I feel like my draenei and night elves would prefer something other than Generic Human Tower, it's still not so ... SOMETHING that I can't see them in it.

But yeah it's less that it's "ugly" (although that is how I put it because I was thinking of my most likely Horde candidate to have a garrison, my BE paladin) and more "the buildings fit fewer races in the Horde than the Alliance's do theirs."


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rendakor on April 15, 2014, 08:43:53 PM
Wait, are garrisons not race-specific? All horde get Orcish buildings?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on April 15, 2014, 09:13:41 PM
The plan, last I heard, was each side was going to get buildings "iconic for their faction" (or words to that effect). The human artistic style is what the default for Alliance usually is, while the Horde defaults to orcs.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Tannhauser on April 15, 2014, 09:19:52 PM
Which is lame.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rendakor on April 15, 2014, 09:27:34 PM
Wow, that's dumb. I figured worst case scenario we'd be stuck with our own race's art style, but in my ideal implementation we'd be able to purchase other styles (of our faction, others, places we've grinded rep with, etc.).


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on April 15, 2014, 11:22:15 PM
phoning it in on a multi million dollar scale.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Fabricated on April 16, 2014, 06:44:20 AM
Human buildings work pretty well for any of the alliance races. Worgen used to be human, night elves like more open buildings with the asian-style roofs but stick some trees and big windows on it and it wouldn't look out of place, Draenei are basically space hippies and it wouldn't look out of place if you just threw some stupid floating crystal shit in a human building and called it a day, Dwarf structures that are outside basically look like human stuff anyway, and gnomes just need some goofy steampunk crap laying around.

the pandas will basically get no more than perfunctory acknowledgement like their previous ignored ancestors the Draenei, Blood Elves, and Worgen.

I guess it continues the Wow tradition of the Horde getting the lesser end of the gameplay stuff but always coming out ahead/getting the most focus in the story department.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on April 16, 2014, 07:48:56 AM
Art assets are hard, just like story ideas apparently.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Miasma on April 16, 2014, 09:00:37 AM
It just looks like an assortment of buildings plopped down and connected with pathways, each race that has a city already has art assets for that so I don't see why you couldn't have a choice.

You could always reroll Alliance: http://imgur.com/a/xGkxI
Who takes "offical" screen shots at night when everything looks blue?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Mithas on April 16, 2014, 09:38:55 AM
It's Shadowmoon Valley. It is always dark there. I think it is one of the zones that is most complete so they may not have had much of a choice but to show it there.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on April 16, 2014, 12:04:07 PM
Blue response from earlier.

Quote
Since we are being blessed with new character models (Which can be disabled? Yes, no?)
Quote
Yes.

This is a terrible, terrible idea.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Trippy on April 16, 2014, 12:08:09 PM
Blue response from earlier.

Quote
Since we are being blessed with new character models (Which can be disabled? Yes, no?)
Quote
Yes.
This is a terrible, terrible idea.
Why? The new models are likely to have a significant performance impact.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on April 16, 2014, 02:07:28 PM
Wow, that's dumb. I figured worst case scenario we'd be stuck with our own race's art style, but in my ideal implementation we'd be able to purchase other styles (of our faction, others, places we've grinded rep with, etc.).
They were muttering about maybe adding racial garrisons in later.
You know, after they finish the ground-up rebuild of the majority of the player models.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on April 16, 2014, 02:13:36 PM
I was under the impression the models people were not necessarily the same as the environment people. But that Blizzcon was years ago.  :why_so_serious:

I'm not surprised that they decided visual customization for garrisons isn't important. These are the same people completely blindsided by people liking transmog so much. But it's still disappointing. Especially since it's the YAY NEW FEATURE of the expansion.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rendakor on April 16, 2014, 03:54:07 PM
That just means that racial garrison options will be the big feature two expansions from now.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on April 16, 2014, 04:08:40 PM
That's optimistic! I was thinking three at best.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on April 16, 2014, 04:48:15 PM
I was under the impression the models people were not necessarily the same as the environment people. But that Blizzcon was years ago.  :why_so_serious:

I'm not surprised that they decided visual customization for garrisons isn't important. These are the same people completely blindsided by people liking transmog so much. But it's still disappointing. Especially since it's the YAY NEW FEATURE of the expansion.

As far as I'm concerned it's the only killer app feature they have. If they don't give people reason to come back and try that out, what are they coming back for that they haven't seen already?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on April 16, 2014, 05:26:56 PM
Well, the fact that every other MMO out there is worse?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Malakili on April 16, 2014, 05:55:47 PM
I was under the impression the models people were not necessarily the same as the environment people. But that Blizzcon was years ago.  :why_so_serious:

I'm not surprised that they decided visual customization for garrisons isn't important. These are the same people completely blindsided by people liking transmog so much. But it's still disappointing. Especially since it's the YAY NEW FEATURE of the expansion.

As far as I'm concerned it's the only killer app feature they have. If they don't give people reason to come back and try that out, what are they coming back for that they haven't seen already?

I don't know why they aren't just copying LOTRO housing with a few tweaks.  A few small quirks aside, it nailed what housing should be  for a sandbox MMO in my opinion. 


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on April 16, 2014, 06:01:22 PM
Well, the fact that every other MMO out there is worse?

Being the shiniest poop in the litter box is not something worth bragging about.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Tannhauser on April 16, 2014, 06:10:15 PM
All housing except UO and  SWG sucks.  I want my house in the game world and yes I realize the technical problems this creates.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on April 16, 2014, 06:47:40 PM
I was under the impression the models people were not necessarily the same as the environment people. But that Blizzcon was years ago.  :why_so_serious:

I'm not surprised that they decided visual customization for garrisons isn't important. These are the same people completely blindsided by people liking transmog so much. But it's still disappointing. Especially since it's the YAY NEW FEATURE of the expansion.

As far as I'm concerned it's the only killer app feature they have. If they don't give people reason to come back and try that out, what are they coming back for that they haven't seen already?

I don't know why they aren't just copying LOTRO housing with a few tweaks.  A few small quirks aside, it nailed what housing should be  for a sandbox MMO in my opinion. 

I don't remember what LOTRO's housing was like, could you give me a brief reminder?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: SurfD on April 16, 2014, 07:22:22 PM
All housing except UO and  SWG sucks.  I want my house in the game world and yes I realize the technical problems this creates.
I thought Asheron's Call did a pretty bang up job of housing in world.  Of course, their world was a LOT bigger then WoW, so they had plenty of space to put housing complexes when they implimented them.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ingmar on April 16, 2014, 07:38:20 PM
I was under the impression the models people were not necessarily the same as the environment people. But that Blizzcon was years ago.  :why_so_serious:

I'm not surprised that they decided visual customization for garrisons isn't important. These are the same people completely blindsided by people liking transmog so much. But it's still disappointing. Especially since it's the YAY NEW FEATURE of the expansion.

As far as I'm concerned it's the only killer app feature they have. If they don't give people reason to come back and try that out, what are they coming back for that they haven't seen already?

I don't know why they aren't just copying LOTRO housing with a few tweaks.  A few small quirks aside, it nailed what housing should be  for a sandbox MMO in my opinion. 

I don't remember what LOTRO's housing was like, could you give me a brief reminder?

Like DAOC's in a lot of ways - instanced towns with lots assigned to players, then objects you could hook to points in the rooms inside the houses on the lots, and there were towns in each race's style.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on April 16, 2014, 08:00:53 PM
OK, so I wasn't forgetting some sort of super interesting housing thing in LotRO or anything.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on April 16, 2014, 08:13:46 PM
Well, the fact that every other MMO out there is worse?

If they had a sub, yes.

Most don't, AND have "pay to use" features that are minimal.  I haven't had a wow itch since I found two that were to my liking, and I'm happy to have tossed money at them - still less than my annual fee - because of it.

Really, at this point WoW is the shitbox that EQ1 used to be.

I was under the impression the models people were not necessarily the same as the environment people. But that Blizzcon was years ago.  :why_so_serious:

I'm not surprised that they decided visual customization for garrisons isn't important. These are the same people completely blindsided by people liking transmog so much. But it's still disappointing. Especially since it's the YAY NEW FEATURE of the expansion.

Let's not forget they're the same people who were floored by the idea of a dance studio as a popular feature and continue to be amazed they get complaints it was never implemented.  They are the dudebros of PC gaming.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rendakor on April 16, 2014, 09:46:03 PM
Well, the fact that every other MMO out there is worse?
Most of the players in my semi-hardcore WotLK guild just don't play MMOs anymore. There are a bunch of gamers out there looking for the next WoW, but we're not resubbing or buying xpacs anymore


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rokal on April 16, 2014, 11:50:36 PM
Rift actually has the best housing system at this point. The last major patch added a crafting profession (Dreamweaving (http://community.riftgame.com/en/2014/02/28/dream-weaving-101/)) that can create VFX for player housing. The whole system is so flexible and easy to use, it puts the rest of the housing systems in MMOs to shame. I have to imagine the tech in WoW is so old at this point that introducing housing in even a barely-competent way has to be a major undertaking. Likewise for making improvements to LOTRO's housing system.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Malakili on April 17, 2014, 12:20:24 PM
OK, so I wasn't forgetting some sort of super interesting housing thing in LotRO or anything.

Yeah, pretty straight forward stuff.  A few different sized houses available, but a couple of clan properties available in each neighborhood.  It wasn't that LOTRO did something amazing, but it was just well down, the towns were really pleasant to be in and really had the flavor for each race, the house/yard decorating was sufficient, etc.  I would have thought anyone trying to do housing in a sandbox themepark game would basically use that as the model.  


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on April 17, 2014, 12:33:54 PM
Rift actually has the best housing system at this point. The last major patch added a crafting profession (Dreamweaving (http://community.riftgame.com/en/2014/02/28/dream-weaving-101/)) that can create VFX for player housing. The whole system is so flexible and easy to use, it puts the rest of the housing systems in MMOs to shame. I have to imagine the tech in WoW is so old at this point that introducing housing in even a barely-competent way has to be a major undertaking. Likewise for making improvements to LOTRO's housing system.
So Rift's just about caught up with EQ2's housing system, then?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ingmar on April 17, 2014, 01:10:14 PM
Did EQ2 housing even have exteriors? I only played it long enough to get a shitty shack apartment in whatever the evil city was. Which is not necessarily a problem, I think I prefer non-sprawl housing overall.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on April 17, 2014, 01:11:55 PM
Did EQ2 housing even have exteriors? I only played it long enough to get a shitty shack apartment in whatever the evil city was. Which is not necessarily a problem, I think I prefer non-sprawl housing overall.

Last I remember EQ2 "housing" was just virtual room decoration. 


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on April 17, 2014, 02:00:41 PM
The standard houses are rooms, but interesting things can be done with the bigger ones (especially when people start sneaking past invisible walls):
http://www.eq2designgallery.com/
https://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/index.php?forums/norrathian-homeshow.29/


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rokal on April 17, 2014, 02:19:03 PM
So Rift's just about caught up with EQ2's housing system, then?

The original implementation of Rift's housing system was much better than I remember the EQ2 housing system being. It was a lot more flexible and easier to use: like a kid's version of Maya 3D. Variety of location/objects, tools, and scale all started off best-in-class.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on April 17, 2014, 03:58:38 PM
OK, so I wasn't forgetting some sort of super interesting housing thing in LotRO or anything.

Yeah, pretty straight forward stuff.  A few different sized houses available, but a couple of clan properties available in each neighborhood.  It wasn't that LOTRO did something amazing, but it was just well down, the towns were really pleasant to be in and really had the flavor for each race, the house/yard decorating was sufficient, etc.  I would have thought anyone trying to do housing in a sandbox game would basically use that as the model. 

I don't think of WoW as anything like a sandbox game, and I'm not even a little bit surprised they wanted to do more than LotRO's housing, as they have an obsession with making things "matter." That said, everything I've read about the garrisons sounds really fun mechanically. Just not Full Expansion Price fun.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rendakor on April 17, 2014, 03:59:38 PM
And certainly not Higher Than Normal Expansion Price fun.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Malakili on April 18, 2014, 02:54:22 AM
OK, so I wasn't forgetting some sort of super interesting housing thing in LotRO or anything.

Yeah, pretty straight forward stuff.  A few different sized houses available, but a couple of clan properties available in each neighborhood.  It wasn't that LOTRO did something amazing, but it was just well down, the towns were really pleasant to be in and really had the flavor for each race, the house/yard decorating was sufficient, etc.  I would have thought anyone trying to do housing in a sandbox game would basically use that as the model. 

I don't think of WoW as anything like a sandbox game, and I'm not even a little bit surprised they wanted to do more than LotRO's housing, as they have an obsession with making things "matter." That said, everything I've read about the garrisons sounds really fun mechanically. Just not Full Expansion Price fun.

Yeah, erm, I meant themepark, I don't know why I typed sandbox.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on April 18, 2014, 04:43:14 AM
And certainly not Higher Than Normal Expansion Price fun.

(http://i.minus.com/jL1txBHHa5Xls.png) (http://minus.com/i/L1txBHHa5Xls)


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on April 18, 2014, 05:07:45 AM
Now do 2012.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on April 18, 2014, 05:47:26 AM
(http://i.minus.com/jpXVXHNf9B4Np.png) (http://minus.com/i/pXVXHNf9B4Np)

Hey look, MoP cost $8 less than it should have. BLIZZARD!!!  :grin:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on April 18, 2014, 05:58:34 AM
Well at least you know you'll be paying the appropriate amount of money for the privilege of then paying more money.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on April 18, 2014, 08:26:39 AM
Doesn't really take into account the reduction in distribution costs of the new download model. If anything, games should cost less than they did when studios had to crank out millions of boxes, CDs, and cases.

And they do. There's a reason ATVI is making billions in profits. Not sales, profits.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on April 18, 2014, 10:44:47 AM
Doesn't really take into account the reduction in distribution costs of the new download model. If anything, games should cost less than they did when studios had to crank out millions of boxes, CDs, and cases.

And they do. There's a reason ATVI is making billions in profits. Not sales, profits.
Yeah, there is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Call_of_Duty



Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on April 18, 2014, 12:50:43 PM
The model is shifting more and more to digital distribution making up 37% of their revenues. And it's only going up. Whatever game it happens to be, ATVI is going to be making the majority of their money on digital sales within the next few years. That means their costs for distributions are going down, while their revenues are either static or going up.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on April 18, 2014, 01:29:44 PM
Meh, I guess I'm the black sheep here then.  Garrisons intrigue me to no end, and I welcome a lot of the changes being made.  And while I understand this may be the Bitching thread (which has almost reached Maximum Bitch-status), I'm pretty sure I'll be seeing several of your B.net tags waving the WoW flag within a few months of WoD's launch.   :grin:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ragnoros on April 18, 2014, 01:39:58 PM
Doesn't really take into account the reduction in distribution costs of the new download model. If anything, games should cost less than they did when studios had to crank out millions of boxes, CDs, and cases.

And they do. There's a reason ATVI is making billions in profits. Not sales, profits.

Eh DVD's and plastic cases are cheap, ditto bulk shipping, and both would basically pay for themselves via free shelf space marketing. Random google results have this number pegged around $3 bucks.

The real profit margin in downloads is in cutting out retail, who typically get 20-25% of the $60 cost. For blizz publishing on PCs is also a boon, letting them skip Sony/MS console 20% cut as well.

Fakeish Edit: But really, we HAVE seen the trend of cheaper games. Things like FTL, Minecraft, Don't Starve, etc. etc. all come in around the $20 +/-10 price point thanks to being produced by smaller, teams, not sold in stores, and often self published to start. Big companies simply have little reason to follow, given they can charge what the market will bear, plus they still have huge teams to support.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on April 18, 2014, 01:42:04 PM
Agreed, the old model cuts were a big portion of that old publishing model.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on April 18, 2014, 03:28:23 PM
(http://i.minus.com/jpXVXHNf9B4Np.png) (http://minus.com/i/pXVXHNf9B4Np)

Hey look, MoP cost $8 less than it should have. BLIZZARD!!!  :grin:

That isn't what I meant, but you know that.  :heart:

39.99 in 2012 (that's what MoP cost, after all), is a whole 41.16 today. And frankly, WoD's not as exciting from a new shit standpoint. WotLK? 43.89. What about Burning Crusade, the first expansion that did not (surprise!) get released in 2004? The expansion that actually set our expectations on price? Oh, it would be 45.57.

To sum up: You're a desperate fanboy trying to pointlessly wave away the fact they're charging too much for too little in an adorably deceptive way.

Meh, I guess I'm the black sheep here then.  Garrisons intrigue me to no end, and I welcome a lot of the changes being made.  And while I understand this may be the Bitching thread (which has almost reached Maximum Bitch-status), I'm pretty sure I'll be seeing several of your B.net tags waving the WoW flag within a few months of WoD's launch.   :grin:

I do think the Garrisons look fun, I think updating the models is SORELY needed and I'm glad they're doing that, number squish is a good thing, etc. But given I regretted paying 40 bucks for MoP, an expansion that had a lot more going for it than this one, asking me to pay 50 is a no-sale.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rendakor on April 18, 2014, 03:48:23 PM
The real profit margin in downloads is in cutting out retail, who typically get 20-25% of the $60 cost.
This is not true. It's closer to 5-10%, for both of the major retail outlets I've worked.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on April 18, 2014, 07:00:44 PM
Updated alpha notes are out.  I'll give you a preview: Reforging is out.  Enjoy!

http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/3922-Paladin-Tier-17-Preview-Warlords-of-Draenor-Alpha-Official-Notes-Update


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on April 18, 2014, 07:10:59 PM
We knew that about reforging already, didn't we?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on April 18, 2014, 07:16:23 PM
We knew that about reforging already, didn't we?

We speculated, this is a confirmation.

Also, mastery for tanks is now  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on April 18, 2014, 07:25:03 PM
Also, mastery for tanks is now  :awesome_for_real:

Of course it is.  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Hutch on April 19, 2014, 02:33:18 AM
Updated alpha notes are out.  I'll give you a preview: Reforging is out.  Enjoy!

http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/3922-Paladin-Tier-17-Preview-Warlords-of-Draenor-Alpha-Official-Notes-Update

TL/DR: Wow, a whole bunch of people cancelled their subs on the day we published the last edition of these patch notes. We're not going to talk about PvP as much this time!


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: dd0029 on April 19, 2014, 12:14:23 PM
Not that I'm going to play, but I like the idea behind the new combat rez mechanic. I'm not sure how it will work out though. I have visions of people waiting like they used to for Heroism/Bloodlust.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Fabricated on April 19, 2014, 12:18:59 PM
Hahahah, if the rest of the tier sets are redone Tier 4 I might just die of laughter.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on April 19, 2014, 12:23:57 PM
Well, there's going to be at least two new designs.  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on April 19, 2014, 01:20:10 PM
Hahahah, if the rest of the tier sets are redone Tier 4 I might just die of laughter.

Hey, we're redoing Outland/Draenor.  Might as well go all the way  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on April 19, 2014, 07:02:00 PM
Hahahah, if the rest of the tier sets are redone Tier 4 I might just die of laughter.

Hey, we're redoing Outland/Draenor.  Might as well go all the way  :why_so_serious:

They went full retard.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on April 26, 2014, 06:11:52 AM
The whinging about the Garrosh trial novel is going to be amazing.  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Miasma on April 26, 2014, 02:44:56 PM
There is a book?  Any one who whines about a horrible WoW book has already defeated themselves.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on April 26, 2014, 03:21:06 PM
One of the reasons the lore has gone off the rails is they started putting it in terrible novels instead of the games. Because they can make more cash selling the books.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Maven on April 27, 2014, 10:05:37 AM
One of the reasons the lore has gone off the rails is they started putting it in terrible novels instead of the games. Because they can make more cash selling the books.

I see a lot of Knaak and Golden, along with others names who I'm vaguely familiar with writing within the medieval fantasy genre.

I bought Knaak a drink once. The first thing he said to me was, paraphrased, "None of my bosses would do that for me."

Quality issues aside (we should not forget that these books are for a commercial brand with commercial interests, shepherded by a committee rather than an individual), you have to give them credit. They can publish on a deadline, and someone has to write those books. Unexploited revenue potential.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on April 27, 2014, 10:44:21 AM
I give Blizzard and Activision a ton of credit for being profitable. I was a shareholder until it basically doubled my value and I got out.

I got out because I think they flubbed Titan, I don't like Blizzard or Activision's long term IP outlook, and I think they are like the NFL. They are extremely profitable right now top dog of the heap, but they are getting overexposed into markets they don't belong, and the only thing that can stop them is their own stupidity/ambition.

The books are like that. It's not a big enough market in books to ruin the game's draw. And despite what people say, they really do care about the lore in an RPG. They care what guy they are killing, they need some backstory, and they want it to be explained without a lot of ridiculous unnecessary bullshit. They certainly don't want to have to go OUTSIDE the game to understand why a big event is happening INSIDE the game. That's counter-intuitive with the only goal as a profit margin. That's short-term thinking, and it's not good.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Fabricated on April 27, 2014, 12:43:38 PM
I haven't paid a lot of attention to the outside lore stuff, but an acquaintance of mine who is way more into that shit said that he kinda blames one particularly bad author for cranking out tons of shitty characters and that recently they've been killing them off left and right.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on April 27, 2014, 04:39:15 PM
To back Paelos up a bit: I used to read every single quest and listen to all the NPC conversations I could.  Then they started putting important shit in books and I started getting lost. 

I began skipping quest text In Cats because. Wtf. I don't know why this is important or who that is. They just showed up and are I charge. Great, whatever.

  Pandaria I don't recall reading a single text.  Not one. I don't even know the back story for the big animal things it the locked valley. I had to hunt for too much and the books weren't going to get bought.  I don't have time for that shit on top of the time demands of the game.

So I became disengaged with the game when the second raid came out and I had no idea what was going on.  I stopped logging in.  Then when the alliance and horde began in axing I said fuck this and it was a pretty quick unsub after that. 

When players who care beyond the latest phat pests don't know what's going on they're not going to remain. Your $9 addition revenue cost you recurring $250 and in game store purchases.   Whoops.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ingmar on April 27, 2014, 10:26:55 PM
I still to this day don't know why we had to raid Obsidian Sanctum.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Fabricated on April 28, 2014, 05:40:29 AM
I dunno it's a dragon; there's a good chance it was a dick who needed killing anyway.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on April 28, 2014, 05:43:34 AM
I still to this day don't know why we had to raid Obsidian Sanctum.

Something something terrorist cultists hate out freedom something something.   :grin:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: apocrypha on April 28, 2014, 06:15:07 AM
I dunno what everyone else was doing but I raided OS for the same reason I've done pretty much every other raid ever... loot.  :grin:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on April 28, 2014, 08:51:44 AM
Apparently Obsidian Sanctum was Deathwing's kids. We had to stop them because other Dragons didn't want them to live. But not enough to where other dragons would actually fight them.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Tannhauser on April 28, 2014, 08:54:05 AM
Getting REAL tired of everyone banging on the greatest, most cohesive, internally consistent lore in the history of gaming.  I...sorry I just can't keep trolling, my eyes have rolled out of my head.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on April 28, 2014, 09:03:33 AM
Quick, TO THE TIME MACHINES!


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Maven on April 28, 2014, 09:47:14 AM
They've relied on the time travelling shtick when they can't advance the lore in a meaningful direction -- as if fleshing out further an already fleshed out background is interesting.

You know, like a comic book movie mining the comics.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Fabricated on April 28, 2014, 12:17:00 PM
There's a lot of big side stories left however which is the puzzling part. Emerald Dream, Argus (Burning Legion), The Titans, The other islands around the Maelstrom, The Abyssal Plane, etc

And you can always conjure another baddie from the lore without confusing the lore further with time travel and alternate timelines.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Malakili on April 28, 2014, 12:25:51 PM
As someone who mained Druid from day 1 until the day I quit, I think I would actually come back for an Emerald Dream expansion.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on April 28, 2014, 12:32:39 PM
  Pandaria I don't recall reading a single text.  Not one. I don't even know the back story for the big animal things it the locked valley. I had to hunt for too much and the books weren't going to get bought.  I don't have time for that shit on top of the time demands of the game.

So I became disengaged with the game when the second raid came out and I had no idea what was going on.  I stopped logging in.  Then when the alliance and horde began in axing I said fuck this and it was a pretty quick unsub after that. 

When players who care beyond the latest phat pests don't know what's going on they're not going to remain. Your $9 addition revenue cost you recurring $250 and in game store purchases.   Whoops.
Things in MoP you needed to read a book to figure out, a list:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rokal on April 28, 2014, 01:01:08 PM
Things in MoP you needed to read a book to figure out, a list:

This is true. They actually did a pretty good job telling the big story moments through scenarios (destruction of Theramore, Vol'Jin deciding to revolt, Garrosh obtaining the Sha power) or questing.

Whether those scenarios were much fun is another question. The story ones definitely felt less fun to play-through/repeat than the less scripted ones but at least they were in the game for once.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Fabricated on April 29, 2014, 09:01:16 AM
So it looks like Blizz really doesn't want to implement flight in newoldDraenor at all.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/12666436539?page=5#82

Quote
This probably should have been kept to the original thread, but caution to thee, wind, I say! (I say that.)

So everyone has seen various posts and comments around the World Wide Web about flying not being allowed in Draenor, why, and what that means. It’d probably be helpful to try to sum up some of those things, and potentially help build a foundation for anyone’s discussions on the topic going forward. If everyone has the same info then it just helps conversations glide along, as you can expect everyone else knows what you know! Knowledge Parity! (Knarity?)

Anyway, it’s important to first dissuade concerns that we’re looking to slow down the game (I’ve recently posted about this in another thread, but it bears repeating). We’re going to be making sure flight paths and other forms of travel are quick and efficient, with a goal of getting you to the places you want to go. The flight paths in Draenor are not going to be loop-de-loop sightseeing tours, and we’re going to be looking to our beta testers to let us know if any are less than tip-top.

Our goal is not to make travel time consuming or painful, and with players on ground mounts we know we'll have to do more to try to ensure people can get to where they want to go quickly… BUT being able to lift off and fly over content compromises many of our goals in how the game world is approached, how it's played, how it's consumed, and how the content is designed to account for those factors.

As an example, let us consider a quest to assassinate an enemy leader. From the ground you approach a fort with guards at the gate. You charge and are able to dispatch them and sneak in a side hallway. You methodically take out packs of roaming sentries, and some of them shout at you as they run toward you. You notice they’re in the middle of practicing dark and forbidden magics, and you take a moment to disrupt their ritual. Dashing into the main courtyard you spot your target, sneaking and fighting your way to him--and with a forceful slash--the fort’s captain is vanquished, and as guards are alerted you fight your way out, glorious and triumphant in your success.

Alternatively, from a flying mount, you fly over the gate, see some guy whose name is highlighted, land on top of him, kill him, and then fly away.

Being efficient is great, being clever is great, and using your cleverness to be efficient is great, but how many of us have done the Tillers dailies up on the cliffside where the Hozen are, and waited for packs to pass by before setting down right where you’re supposed to, use whatever thingamabob you’re supposed to, and then lift off ASAP hoping-hoping-hoping nothing aggros? How many of us have become furious when we actually have to fight something!? Is that clever gameplay? Is that being good at playing the game, or is it using a mechanic to avoid having to play it? Is that what the game should be, and what our expectations should be as gamers playing it?

I hope everyone can agree, regardless of personal opinion toward flight vs. non-flight, that flying fundamentally alters how content is approached in a world where the gameplay exists wholly on the ground.

In Draenor we’re designing max-level content, portions of zones or zones in their entirety that will be dedicated to max-level gameplay—and not just the top of a cliffside, or some dailies in the Vale. There’s a harsh change in how the game plays between leveling, and when you hit max level. Hitting 100 and instantly switching everything you do to raiding or Arenas is pretty abrupt, and we want to try to keep that questing experience available at max level with something more robust than daily quests. We don’t think having all of that content inside buildings, or constantly challenged by sky cannons, or with magical no-flying smoke, or within some kind of dismount bubble is the most straightforward or best solution to the ultimate issue in that World of Warcraft is not a flight sim, and that's just not what the content of the game is about. Even at level 100 there will be no small portions of the game world intended to provide relevant content even to max-level players. These zones may even unlock over the course of the expansion, or the content in them will progress in story and scope throughout content patches. Content has to be designed with the expectation that there either is or is not flight, and approaching ground-level content from the ground offers more compelling gameplay. Raids, dungeons, and PvP continue to disallow flying for this same reason.

It's also important to think about not just what the content is, but how it's experienced. Not everyone that plays the game cares how quests and outdoor content are experienced, of course. Some may find it unnecessary; they don't feel it adds anything to their experience. Others play through it fairly quickly, enjoy it, but don’t particularly want to put much thought into why. Some may begrudgingly trudge through the content just so they can get to the part of the game they do want to play, and any other number of situations and preferences.

I’m sure some of you see the fortress example with the flying mount and see nothing wrong, if that’s how someone wants to play the game they should be allowed to. But a game is largely defined by its limitations, and the rules within which you must find or create a solution. We’re not trying to create a slow and laborious game (hopefully people actually enjoy the content!), or expect people will be yelling “YIIIPPPEEEEE!” while fighting a mob that aggroed when they tried to pick an herb, but there’s a big difference between a slow and laborious game and the expectation of instant gratification—not to mention the somewhat nebulous intention of creating and maintaining an engaging and immersive game world. World of Warcraft is a persistent online roleplaying game, and as much as we let players choose how they improve their characters within the world; leveling through dungeons, or PvP, or questing; choosing to do Arenas, or raids, or both; we’re still always wanting to create a holistic experience that supports all of these things. That doesn’t mean we think it’s a good idea to force people to read all their quest text, or stare at and appreciate the pretty new models, or anything like that, but it’s not unreasonable to see that combat and content exist on the ground, understand that, embrace that, and make decisions to support it.

In summary: It’s important to us that we integrate max-level questing into the expansion more thoroughly than designated daily locations on mountain tops, or only have the option of releasing new max level content in magically appearing islands where flight has different rules because reasons. We also know that being able to approach content that’s on the ground from up in the air compromises much of what creates the game world, how it's played, and how it's consumed. The game experience is fundamentally altered when you can lift off and set down wherever you want. And lastly, that we’re not intending to slow anyone down, and we’re going to make sure that players can get where they want to go efficiently through more direct flight points, and potentially alternate travel methods.

None of this is new philosophy; it's something we've maintained since Burning Crusade when flight was introduced, but it has evolved over the years, and I expect it to continue to be—like everything we do—an iterative process. And hopefully this has been at least marginally informative.
It's weird hearing the "We don't want to slow people down! We're going to make flight points and other travel faster!" and "Well we don't want you just flying up to a quest mob and killing it." in this weird infinite loop of contradiction.

Just say it: You want to slow content consumption down. Period.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on April 29, 2014, 09:08:29 AM
They are going to get blowtorched over that decision if they follow through with no flying.

Considering they've been selling flying ponies for cash, they are completely fucking those paying customers over. I don't think that's a group you want to mess with.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Mithas on April 29, 2014, 09:10:23 AM
But they are making ever mount usable on the ground!


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on April 29, 2014, 09:18:07 AM
But they are making ever mount usable on the ground!

That + not everything your character needs to do will be found in Draenor will make it work for Bliz.  AH and stuff will still be in the original capital cities. 

The no flying thing doesn't concern me.  Played this game for years in vanilla without it, and the times before capping out in the expansions (save Cata) just fine.  As long as they're not complete dicks when it comes to mining nodes, I'm fine with no flight.  If anything, mat prices may go up as a result of more time/work being put into gathering, and archeology is going to be a bitch.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Fabricated on April 29, 2014, 09:19:39 AM
Isn't the new expansion's collectors edition mount a fucking flying mount?

I like this bit in particular:
Quote
As an example, let us consider a quest to assassinate an enemy leader. From the ground you approach a fort with guards at the gate. You charge and are able to dispatch them and sneak in a side hallway. You methodically take out packs of roaming sentries, and some of them shout at you as they run toward you. You notice they’re in the middle of practicing dark and forbidden magics, and you take a moment to disrupt their ritual. Dashing into the main courtyard you spot your target, sneaking and fighting your way to him--and with a forceful slash--the fort’s captain is vanquished, and as guards are alerted you fight your way out, glorious and triumphant in your success.

You know, except your design for 8 years has been to condition players with a reward cycle that deems this sort of content as a big boring waste of time. And if this is just some leveling quest flip a coin on if anyone really fucking bothers with it since it'll reward a shitty trash item you'll throw away in an hour at best. You can't put the genie back in the bottle on people not expecting to have to slog through area trash to get to other area trash they want to kill; it's over. You've done it.

When you did it in Vanilla with the Scarlet Crusader cities in Plaguelands the result was literally nobody but chinese gold bots in the area outside of a tiny minority of people trying to farm up the Crusader enchant drop or doing that one questline with Fordring that ended with a series of pretty nice blue rewards (tanks in particular got a nice chestpiece from this, remember?).


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lantyssa on April 29, 2014, 09:58:43 AM
I love his example, but this isn't Deus Ex where you have multiple approaches to taking out a target.  It's pretty much bee-line for the guy.  Maybe step five feet over to avoid aggro or pause for a few seconds to let a patrol go by.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on April 29, 2014, 10:07:05 AM
Or be a stealth class and do the same fucking thing. 


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Hutch on April 29, 2014, 10:07:40 AM
 :mob: :mob: :mob: :mob:

What the fuck, Blizzard. You had a good thing going. Ground your players until they hit the level cap, then design some content areas that don't allow flying, some that require it, and let the players do whatever they want. More choices, not less. You've been doing it since BC, why fix what wasn't broken?

Well at least they came clean about it.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Fabricated on April 29, 2014, 10:09:21 AM
I think it's more of a "Art assets are hard" thing. Their content/art pipeline must be fucked six ways to sunday because it comes off to me as a way to both slow down content consumption but also as a way to speed up asset creation since they don't need to model the whole thing anymore. Yay, welcome back facades!


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Fabricated on April 29, 2014, 10:14:11 AM
Okay this response to Bashiok is fucking great:

Quote
did u really just speak against instant gratification in the same game you sell instant level 90s in?

(http://i.imgur.com/BRDgKQM.gif)


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on April 29, 2014, 10:19:10 AM
Isn't the new expansion's collectors edition mount a fucking flying mount?

Yes, the collectors edition supposedly has a flying mount. Here's the text from EB Games: "Dread Raven Mount: Swoop down from the dark of night on the black-winged Dread Raven, a mortal progeny of Anzu"

So basically all he's saying is completely contrary to the actual collector's edition pet description. Swoop down on your enemies! Except not really, and only outside the new content because we don't support swooping in Totally-Not-A-Copy-of-TBC-2.0


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Malakili on April 29, 2014, 10:25:58 AM
Quote
Being efficient is great, being clever is great, and using your cleverness to be efficient is great, but how many of us have done the Tillers dailies up on the cliffside where the Hozen are, and waited for packs to pass by before setting down right where you’re supposed to, use whatever thingamabob you’re supposed to, and then lift off ASAP hoping-hoping-hoping nothing aggros? How many of us have become furious when we actually have to fight something!

Maybe if people hate actually fighting in your game when combat is one of the main things you do, you have a bigger problem.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on April 29, 2014, 10:28:59 AM
I don't think people hate fighting. They hate the fact that dailies are usually a fetch quest, and fighting is an obstacle to the fetching, and getting their reward.

Blizzard moved the bar with dailies being a thing. They moved it even further by uncapping them, and making reputation an even bigger thing.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Zetor on April 29, 2014, 11:37:19 AM
I think WOW's combat is some of the best in the genre. What I dislike about dailies are the dull and repetitive 'collect y items / kill x completely trivial mobs' parts which highlight just how much of a waste of time it is just doing them. I'm ok with dailies that involve doing dungeons or pvp, and I'd be ok with dailies that actually required paying some attention to finish (e.g. soloing a miniboss that has a somewhat random moveset, with CM/PG-style scaling so it isn't trivialized by gear) so that I actually had some 'fun' doing them.

However, my preferred solution for dailies is the GW2 way: don't have daily quests at all! Instead, have a list of 20 objectives (may vary slightly from day to day) about gathering y items, killing x different kinds of enemies (mobs or players), craft z items, kill any dungeon or raid boss, gather guild xp, etc. Give out the 'daily reward' when the player completes 5 of those objectives, and maybe smaller rewards for each subsequent completion. Then I can get them done while I'm actually having fun in the game doing BGs / dungeons / raids / soloing / etc.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on April 29, 2014, 11:45:32 AM
People have always hated trash in WoW, primarily because it is exactly that; trash.  If they had a chance to drop a good item things would be different and nobody'd mind as much. That conversation happened back in 2004 when everyone complained they should be doing Diablo-style loot where bosses have a better chance to drop good items.  They chose not to, which was and still is silly but it's how they're doing things.

However, forcing them to kill it because "OMG GAMEPLAY" at this point is boneheaded and another sign of old men doing things rather than fresh, young talent.  They're concerned their hard work isn't being appreciated. Another step along "The Vision" highway.  The next step is what, insisting a game system is working as intended when it's clearly broken, right?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Fabricated on April 29, 2014, 11:55:56 AM
I like how they won't just say they if they're killing flight or not while saying they're killing it, because they know that if they do there's a bunch of subs and preorders being cancelled.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Typhon on April 29, 2014, 11:56:39 AM
They should have just added mobs that have anti-aircraft nets that force you down.  Game then because 1) go the land route, 2) go air route and try to avoid being brought down, 3) mix of both.  So Mr I  :heart: Flying (read: me!) can still fly most everywhere, but he needs to be careful around high-density areas and places where the anti-aircraft mobs spawn.

World has fucking dragons and no one has developed ways of dealing with flyers?  That's dumb.

I'm sure this has been suggested before by the player base, it's not clear to me why they resist doing this.  Embrace flying.  Give, the different mounts different flight characteristics.  ... you know, add something new to the game.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Fabricated on April 29, 2014, 12:01:49 PM
I know Blizzard could give a shit about world PVP but lol, enjoy leveling on your PVP servers now all you idiots who rolled on PVP servers despite hating PVP because the most progressed raiding guilds like to roll on them. Between no flying and CWZ you'll be spending half your playtime running to your corpse for the first month or two.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Zetor on April 29, 2014, 12:44:08 PM
Believe me, if there was an option to move to another server entirely (not for $30 or whatever per character), my guild would've jumped ship en masse from Crushridge to (random pve or rp server that has people on it) back in 2005-2006. A mostly-dead server with a massive horde overpopulation... how fun.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rokal on April 29, 2014, 02:55:11 PM
They should have just added mobs that have anti-aircraft nets that force you down.  Game then because 1) go the land route, 2) go air route and try to avoid being brought down, 3) mix of both.  So Mr I  :heart: Flying (read: me!) can still fly most everywhere, but he needs to be careful around high-density areas and places where the anti-aircraft mobs spawn.

World has fucking dragons and no one has developed ways of dealing with flyers?  That's dumb.

They've tried this multiple times in the past and it's always been terrible. Getting knocked off your mount and falling to your death is way more obnoxious than just having to use a ground mount. You're guaranteed to die against the "no fly" defenses at least once every time they're introduced.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Typhon on April 29, 2014, 09:13:50 PM
Well I was actually thinking that you floated to the ground with limited control, but I guess knocking you off your mount so that you fall to your death is another way to go.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Setanta on April 30, 2014, 02:44:45 AM
However, my preferred solution for dailies is the GW2 way: don't have daily quests at all! Instead, have a list of 20 objectives (may vary slightly from day to day) about gathering y items, killing x different kinds of enemies (mobs or players), craft z items, kill any dungeon or raid boss, gather guild xp, etc. Give out the 'daily reward' when the player completes 5 of those objectives, and maybe smaller rewards for each subsequent completion. Then I can get them done while I'm actually having fun in the game doing BGs / dungeons / raids / soloing / etc.

This. There were times I'd run a dungeon or two in GW2 or even just be doing exploration and I would complete all my dailies without even knowing what they were. In the meantime I was enjoying myself playing the game. I quit WoW because to me, the game was about doing dailies and not having fun.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Tannhauser on April 30, 2014, 08:44:59 AM
I like how every expac since WOTLK makes the game worse and worse.  It's like every expac gets a new dev team who then throw the baby out with the bathwater for their new ideas.  Should some of the game mechanics have been updated?  Yes.  But their vision past the Lich King seems haphazard and unfocused.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on April 30, 2014, 08:47:36 AM
I like how every expac since WOTLK makes the game worse and worse.  It's like every expac gets a new dev team who then throw the baby out with the bathwater for their new ideas.  Should some of the game mechanics have been updated?  Yes.  But their vision past the Lich King seems haphazard and unfocused.


After wotlk the only logical place to progress the story would be towards the titans and sargeras except that would mean the end of the game so they are gonna milk it as long as they can by having you go on bullshit side quests TO THE PAST!


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rendakor on April 30, 2014, 09:09:28 AM
That justifies the shitty lore, but not the rest of the dumb gameplay changes.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Fabricated on April 30, 2014, 09:24:59 AM
Deathwing wasn't a terrible badgut to conjure up and a good excuse to turn the world on its head; it's just that outside of the 1-60 experience it wasn't handled well.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on April 30, 2014, 09:38:05 AM
We see way too much of the bad guy. I agree with the idea that Lich King pushed the Big Bad to the forefront of just everyday stuff, and it wasn't a good idea. I don't need to see the Lich King wandering about in a 5 man dungeon giving orders that we all know we're going to beat.

The bad guys need to be like Sauron. Whispers of a nameless fear in the East. The old gods are better bad guys in that regard.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rendakor on April 30, 2014, 09:40:10 AM
If all they drop are subtle hints, you get 90% of the playerbase going "Who's that?" when you get to the end of a raid.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on April 30, 2014, 09:45:21 AM
If all they drop are subtle hints, you get 90% of the playerbase going "Who's that?" when you get to the end of a raid.

You don't have to be subtle. You also don't have to have the final boss actually show up in random quests. They have cut scenes in game now that can describe lore events.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Tannhauser on April 30, 2014, 10:05:11 AM
We see way too much of the bad guy. I agree with the idea that Lich King pushed the Big Bad to the forefront of just everyday stuff, and it wasn't a good idea. I don't need to see the Lich King wandering about in a 5 man dungeon giving orders that we all know we're going to beat.

The bad guys need to be like Sauron. Whispers of a nameless fear in the East. The old gods are better bad guys in that regard.

I disagree.  Having the Lich King show up every once in a while twirling his mustache was cool.

Deathwing was raid locked.  Feh.  Except when it shows up to burn you on the ground.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Draegan on April 30, 2014, 10:22:13 AM
I think it's a good design decision, it increased the world's size from a perception point of view. Unfortunately it changes the playstyle of all of your subscribers have gotten used to for like 10 years which makes it a really really controversial decision.

At least it forces them to maybe create some interesting content that isn't collect X or kill Y a million times every day all day.

For me personally, WOW's combat is incredibly dull after playing tab target/hotbar stuff for 15+ years. The only reason I can stomach it in Archeage is because the combo system is neat (kind of) and that game has some really interesting systems. Malakili was right though, if they made combat more engaging and interesting (which they will never change anyway), killing an aggro mob won't be a chore, it'll be an interest short interaction.

Killing an NPC in a game like TERA or ESO was entertaining because at least you had to aim your retical. Personally, I liked that.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Fabricated on April 30, 2014, 10:25:21 AM
The Lich King's appearances and story could've been handled better but I liked his presence. Everything I did in Cata kinda felt pointless, whereas the whole overarching war against Arthas thing in WoTLK was pretty persistent. Naxxramas for example felt like it made a lot more sense than the first couple raids in Cata; I mean it's floating right there over a great big town it blew up and there's a front fighting against it. The Twilight Spire is uh...there I guess? Not a terrible convenient teleporter for their forces really, nor did it really give the impression of them projecting their forces despite the highlands being festooned with their guys.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on April 30, 2014, 10:45:27 AM
Maybe I'm in the minority on that then, but I felt that seeing these guys wandering around in tiny version really confused the issue.

Not being able to actually kill the Lich King was just typical Blizzard Setback nonsense.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on April 30, 2014, 12:21:41 PM
After three days of suspense, Bliz has enlightened us with their intentions for raiding in WoD.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/13942448/dev-watercooler-raiding-azeroth-part-3-warlords-of-draenor-4-30-2014

tl;dr - Flex is the new Normal, Normal is the new Heroic, Mythic will utterly destroy you, and LFR loots get ghetto armor skins and no set bonuses.  Also, we're gonna try that Group Finder thing that other MMOs have had for DECADES.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on April 30, 2014, 12:29:18 PM
and LFR loots get ghetto armor skins and no set bonuses.  

"After destroying almost every single raid guild, we've decided it was a mistake and have killed the quality of LFR loot.  We hope this doesn't cause you to unsub after having gotten used to the convenience of LFR for your phat lewts over scheduled raid days with a guild."

Dumbasses.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on April 30, 2014, 12:33:20 PM
Yeah the LFR loot changes are the exact opposite of the intent of LFR. It's too see the bosses and make progression unrelated to the raiding guilds. Who gives a fuck if they feel the need to run it? That's their problem, and they are in the minority.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Mithas on April 30, 2014, 12:39:59 PM
Once again they listened to the vocal minority bitching about people getting stuff for free without putting effort in.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on April 30, 2014, 12:43:10 PM
I'm fine with the changes.  If I want more epic lootz, I'll go get into a flex group.  As it stands, now that I work two jobs to support the wife and two kids, I ain't got time for that stuff.  A quick romp through a zone so I can see content/lorelol/have fun is good.  And now apparently they're applying flex-rules to LFR, so a full raid of 25 huntards isn't required anymroe.

Also, the Group Finder thing has to be a response to oQueue.  We "had" a group finder before in vanilla, but they ripped it out in exchange for Meeting Stones.  Since they apparently can't break oQueue without breaking some of their own Bnet features, they're gonna fight it instead.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on April 30, 2014, 01:11:52 PM
I like how every expac since WOTLK makes the game worse and worse.  It's like every expac gets a new dev team who then throw the baby out with the bathwater for their new ideas.  Should some of the game mechanics have been updated?  Yes.  But their vision past the Lich King seems haphazard and unfocused.
MoP was a order of magnitude better than Cataclysm with only the stupid daily quest/faction onion the wrong decision, which pretty much got shanked in the first patch and head-shot in the second. So much for "worse and worse".
Also:
https://twitter.com/ckaleiki/status/461302157417775104

 :rock:

(They clarified later: Not your actual items, but quest/token/etc. stuff for the zone)

tl;dr - Flex is the new Normal, Normal is the new Heroic, Mythic will utterly destroy you, and LFR loots get ghetto armor skins and no set bonuses. 
And twice as much loot.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rokal on April 30, 2014, 01:26:55 PM
tl;dr - Flex is the new Normal, Normal is the new Heroic, Mythic will utterly destroy you, and LFR loots get ghetto armor skins and no set bonuses. 
And twice as much loot.

And unique LFR-only art. All a matter of perspective.  :grin:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on April 30, 2014, 01:35:54 PM
tl;dr - Flex is the new Normal, Normal is the new Heroic, Mythic will utterly destroy you, and LFR loots get ghetto armor skins and no set bonuses. 
And twice as much loot.

And unique LFR-only art. All a matter of perspective.  :grin:

Twice as much loot is an issue. I'm not sure they understand how many people play LFR and that's it. If they make it so LFR is just two entries and you have full gear? Those people aren't suddenly going to wander into flex, no matter how many options you give them to find a standard group. They'll just get bored and unsub.

LFR was working fine, but it sounds like they are trying to tweak it because the hardcores didn't like it, not because the people running it didn't like it.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rokal on April 30, 2014, 01:49:46 PM
Twice as much loot is an issue. I'm not sure they understand how many people play LFR and that's it. If they make it so LFR is just two entries and you have full gear? Those people aren't suddenly going to wander into flex, no matter how many options you give them to find a standard group. They'll just get bored and unsub.

This is the wall they would have run into regardless, now they just hit it twice as fast. It's possible that without spending so much time in a raid via LFR that they burn out on it, players will be more interested in stepping up to Flex after they finish gearing in LFR, especially with the new grouping tools making it only slightly harder than queuing for LFR. The purpose of LFR has always been advertised as "see the content regardless of your schedule", so doubling the loot drop rate seems in-line with that goal. If it's just about seeing the content, why would you want to make players see it again and again in that format for 2-3 months?

My bigger question is, if they remove the incentive for normal raiders to do LFR and also cut the amount of time players need to run it by 50%, how are they going to avoid having ridiculously long LFR queues after a raid has been unlocked for 1-2 months?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on April 30, 2014, 01:53:31 PM
My bigger question is, if they remove the incentive for normal raiders to do LFR and also cut the amount of time players need to run it by 50%, how are they going to avoid having ridiculously long LFR queues after a raid has been unlocked for 1-2 months?

I mentioned earlier; LFR in WoD will follow Flex rules.  You won't need full 25 man compliment, just 10 will do.  Also, if they do what they did in MoP by adding another legendary quest line that has you going into raids to collect quest items, it'll keep alts and such attached to the lower tiers while they try to complete the quest.  Queue times right now are pretty low since the lvl 90 boost went in and everyone's trying to get their cloak before WoD gets here, myself included  :grin:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Hutch on April 30, 2014, 01:54:14 PM
LFR was working fine, but it sounds like they are trying to tweak it because the hardcores didn't like it, not because the people running it didn't like it.

They should rename the expansion to Warlords Of Fixing What Ain't Broken.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on April 30, 2014, 01:56:01 PM
LFR was working fine, but it sounds like they are trying to tweak it because the hardcores didn't like it, not because the people running it didn't like it.

They should rename the expansion to Warlords Of Fixing What Ain't Broken.


WoFWAB

/dubstep



Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Tannhauser on April 30, 2014, 02:13:23 PM
LFR was working fine, but it sounds like they are trying to tweak it because the hardcores didn't like it, not because the people running it didn't like it.

They should rename the expansion to Warlords Of Fixing What Ain't Broken.


You should have done a /dropmic after that.  Well said.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on April 30, 2014, 02:18:04 PM
This is the wall they would have run into regardless, now they just hit it twice as fast. It's possible that without spending so much time in a raid via LFR that they burn out on it, players will be more interested in stepping up to Flex after they finish gearing in LFR, especially with the new grouping tools making it only slightly harder than queuing for LFR. The purpose of LFR has always been advertised as "see the content regardless of your schedule", so doubling the loot drop rate seems in-line with that goal. If it's just about seeing the content, why would you want to make players see it again and again in that format for 2-3 months?

My bigger question is, if they remove the incentive for normal raiders to do LFR and also cut the amount of time players need to run it by 50%, how are they going to avoid having ridiculously long LFR queues after a raid has been unlocked for 1-2 months?

Here's a bigger question: why are they fucking with it at all?

Who cares if your hardcore raiders feel they have to run LFR? HINT: THEY DON'T HAVE TO. So, instead of just ignoring them and going on with one of the biggest success stories they've had out of the clusterfuck of Catacylsm, they are going to "Fix" it? Why?!?! This is only a problem for people that aren't quitting the game under penalty of death. Instead, they're putting the vast majority of the playerbase up against an unnecessary content wall, and HOPING they move up to the next level.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on April 30, 2014, 02:40:56 PM
We interrupt your regularly scheduled hyperbole with some breaking news: The first tier of MoP LFR didn't have armour sets either.
Now back to your original programme.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rokal on April 30, 2014, 03:24:29 PM
Here's a bigger question: why are they fucking with it at all?

To encourage LFR raiders to try Flex (now called Normal) which retains the hooks that have historically encouraged players to stay subscribed and is arguably a much more fun version of the content. It's that simple.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Hutch on April 30, 2014, 03:41:21 PM
*picks up mic*

Telling the players that they're having fun wrong is the hallmark of such industry greats as SWG and Vanguard.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on April 30, 2014, 03:43:29 PM
Here's a bigger question: why are they fucking with it at all?

To encourage LFR raiders to try Flex (now called Normal) which retains the hooks that have historically encouraged players to stay subscribed and is arguably a much more fun version of the content. It's that simple.

I don't believe that's the true reason. That's the way they would sell it, but I don't think it has that result. Here's why:

So let's look at this two ways. 1 - The reason LFR people don't do regular raids with the same group is because of schedules. They don't want to schedule their life to a game. No amount of cajoling or tools or anything is going to solve this issue when it comes to playing with the same group.

2 - If you believe the tools make it possible to play flex with a random group on your schedule, then you're just creating LFR 2.0. There's no more stickiness in that than there is in LFR, and it might be even more frustrating because it's tougher AND you are with randoms that can't hack it.

I think this is another version of their typical butthurt. This is the "we want things to be meaningful" garbage they've been pushing at every chance. The devs get beaten down on it time and again, but if given an inch they will try to ratchet up difficulties, divide the cool kids stuff away from the regular players, and try to restore the hardcore game for the players they want. Not the players they have.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Mithas on April 30, 2014, 03:50:52 PM
Quote
I think this is another version of their typical butthurt. This is the "we want things to be meaningful" garbage they've been pushing at every chance. The devs get beaten down on it time and again, but if given an inch they will try to ratchet up difficulties, divide the cool kids stuff away from the regular players, and try to restore the hardcore game for the players they want. Not the players they have.

They've done this before, only to end in sub loss. You'd think they'd learn that making it more difficult for the casual player just ends with them undoing the stupid later anyway.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rendakor on April 30, 2014, 03:55:22 PM
At this point I think they're incapable of learning from their mistakes.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Draegan on April 30, 2014, 03:59:48 PM
They don't want to realize that their game is essentially a step above the casualness and complexity of Candy Crush and Farmville.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Mithas on April 30, 2014, 04:02:02 PM
The players they want don't exist in the numbers they once did. The players they want are me when I was in my mid 20s with no other obligations.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rokal on April 30, 2014, 04:07:44 PM
I don't believe that's the true reason. That's the way they would sell it, but I don't think it has that result. Here's why:

So let's look at this two ways. 1 - The reason LFR people don't do regular raids with the same group is because of schedules. They don't want to schedule their life to a game. No amount of cajoling or tools or anything is going to solve this issue when it comes to playing with the same group.

It doesn't only serve players who are unable to schedule raids. It also functions as the introduction to raiding for most players at this point, as it has lower gear/skill/time/scheduling requirements. Either camp may be able to find a flex group via the Group tool to do a better and more true-to-form version of the raid. Especially with variable raid sizes, groups are going to be much more open to letting players with restrictive schedules into their groups. They can just run -1 (or -20) people if needed.

2 - If you believe the tools make it possible to play flex with a random group on your schedule, then you're just creating LFR 2.0. There's no more stickiness in that than there is in LFR, and it might be even more frustrating because it's tougher AND you are with randoms that can't hack it.

It's not just LFR 2.0 because, like all the old PuG groups in Vanilla and TBC, you have a chance to meet people via these groups and become a permanent part of their raid team. Since only Mythic content is locked to servers at this point, there is no barrier to playing with a raid group on another server. This is what Blizzard wants: more players participating in a stickier version of the content, making social connections via the groups required for that content, and staying subbed indefinitely instead of for the 2 months that it takes you to get to 100 and see all the raid content via LFR.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rendakor on April 30, 2014, 04:10:21 PM
So you meet a group, become friends, raid together, get better, challenge increasing difficulty; thenl you hit the server-transfer-paywall since the last difficulty can't be done cross-server because reasons. :uhrr:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rokal on April 30, 2014, 04:13:25 PM
That's assuming most of the playerbase gives a shit about Heroic (now called Mythic) raids. Armory completion stats don't support that theory.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on April 30, 2014, 04:45:30 PM
I did play the game with my friends, and had fun, mostly because the content required a little bit or effort and wasn't like sleep walking. As a matter of fact, I'd argue that if Cata taught me anything, it's that most players don't want to play with their friends. Most people seem to use the LFD tool to form groups, which means they are running dungeons for upgrades/points first, not for fun.

This was a conversation we had before about people wanting to group up and play with friends. Now you're telling me that Blizzard wants to make those people suddenly raid with friends. We already learned this lesson.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on April 30, 2014, 06:03:43 PM
What are they taking away from LFR, Paelos?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on April 30, 2014, 09:41:41 PM
They are taking away set bonuses, trinkets, and basically making loot a completely separate item from other parts of raiding. They didn't do that with LFR before. It was lower levels of the same gear, but it still had the same bonuses and looks as the real deal.

Then by doubling the loot, they are effectively making it the new welfare epics. It's putting in a divide because they don't want LFR people to feel like they've done what real raiders are doing. It just reeks of epeen from the hardcore, especially with the art decisions.

Basically if they are going to do that with LFR in the hopes that people gear up for real raids, they might as well remove LFR and cut out the middle man. I think they honestly want to do that. I've wanted to do that in the past. If it's not equal, and you want flex raiding to be the thing, make it the thing. This approach just seems dickish and half-assed. The whole decision making process seems like they are trying to marginalize LFR because the hardcores didn't like doing it, and didn't like seeing people in easy purples like theirs.

If they want to do the storyline thing, just do it via scenarios.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ragnoros on May 01, 2014, 03:14:41 AM
Twice as much loot is an issue. I'm not sure they understand how many people play LFR and that's it. If they make it so LFR is just two entries and you have full gear? Those people aren't suddenly going to wander into flex, no matter how many options you give them to find a standard group. They'll just get bored and unsub.

This is the wall they would have run into regardless, now they just hit it twice as fast. It's possible that without spending so much time in a raid via LFR that they burn out on it, players will be more interested in stepping up to Flex after they finish gearing in LFR, especially with the new grouping tools making it only slightly harder than queuing for LFR. The purpose of LFR has always been advertised as "see the content regardless of your schedule", so doubling the loot drop rate seems in-line with that goal.

tl'dr. I agree with Rokal for once.
Speaking from my own experience--I subbed to MoP for about three months over the winter--yes, LFR was cool in that I (for the first time ever) got to kill the final boss and see the content blizz cares so much about and works so hard on (+ phat lewt). However, for once, I think blizz hit it on the head with their upcoming changes.

After two or three runs of LFR it gets boring, after two months it's just a total burn out. Having each run be a total crap shoot on whether you get geared, competent raiders, or afk healers sucks hard. I actually got into a regular raiding guild for the first time ever after a couple months subbed thanks to filling a tank role for one of those random pickup flex groups, but at that point I was just totally burnt out on the whole raid thing from doing it for two months with annoying pubbies, and the fact I was doing it with non-facerollers didn't matter. Plus even after two months I still had not got a stam trinket, thus pushing me to run LFR more in the hopes of getting one. LFR should be a quick, fun, whirlwind tour, not an aggravating yet mandatory feeling grind.

Being able to get geared in a week or two from LFR than transitioning into an actual raiding with people one actually likes would do wonders for both fun and retention. At least in my case.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Zetor on May 01, 2014, 03:48:44 AM
I maintain that LFR can be fun... if you play a healer. When you get 'those' groups (only one tank, tank is wearing unenchanted/ungemmed pvp gear, dps queuing as healers, nobody following mechanics) it can be an intense healing challenge to keep everyone alive.

I haven't really tanked any LFRs in MOP, but my experience with tanking LFRs in Cata leads me to believe it's the worst of both worlds -- if you don't do everything perfectly with 100% pre-knowledge of each fight, you may wipe and there'll be a lot of trashtalk; on the flipside, even if you do everything right, the group will probably still wipe if the dps is totally incompetent. Doing LFRs as dps is just boring (maybe except for being the only person who actually deals with mechanics like the ghosts in the spiritbinder fight).


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on May 01, 2014, 07:40:29 AM
They are taking away set bonuses, trinkets, and basically making loot a completely separate item from other parts of raiding. They didn't do that with LFR before. It was lower levels of the same gear, but it still had the same bonuses and looks as the real deal.

Then by doubling the loot, they are effectively making it the new welfare epics. It's putting in a divide because they don't want LFR people to feel like they've done what real raiders are doing. It just reeks of epeen from the hardcore, especially with the art decisions.

Basically if they are going to do that with LFR in the hopes that people gear up for real raids, they might as well remove LFR and cut out the middle man. I think they honestly want to do that. I've wanted to do that in the past. If it's not equal, and you want flex raiding to be the thing, make it the thing. This approach just seems dickish and half-assed. The whole decision making process seems like they are trying to marginalize LFR because the hardcores didn't like doing it, and didn't like seeing people in easy purples like theirs.

If they want to do the storyline thing, just do it via scenarios.

They want LFR to be two things:

- A way for casuals to see content/lorelol
- Training wheels for the actual raid.

LFR gear was already separate from regular and heroic gear in that it was weaker; gear will still have relative ilvls to normal as LFR has to normal now.  I could care less about set bonuses, and they're not removing trinkets.

I agree with you that they're adding a divide between LFR and regular raiding.  There should be one, IMO, because they're not the same thing.  The extra mechanics and difficulty in Normal would break many LFR types, and I don't believe that those peeps should be rewarded as awesomely as a regular raider.  I say this, again, as a guy with two jobs and a family of four to take care of.  I just don't have the time anymore for 2-4 hour nightly teeth gnashing sessions.  So I spend my free time when I can plowing through LFR.  The peeps that invest more time should be awarded justly, and I don't believe that my 30 minutes of /facerolling LFR nerfed encounters, esp. when I arrive on the scene and the group already has 3+ stacks of Determination, should be rewarding me stuff that's too similar to what people who invested more time and effort than me are getting.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on May 01, 2014, 08:23:40 AM
They weren't being rewarded as awesomely. They were being rewarded with lower ilvl pieces of the same gear. The cosmetic change is what gets me. There's no reason for it other than butthurt.

I agree that's what THEY want LFR to be. For one thing, I'm not sure that's what the players want out of LFR, second I don't think LFR will achieve that goal. It's not going to make people suddenly want to schedule their life to a game. I don't think that the reason many people don't raid is because they don't know anybody, don't have a guild, or don't have the access to forums to see about raids.

Also, they said in the post, "The gear will fall in between dungeon loot and Normal mode raid loot in terms of power, as it does today, but without the set bonuses and specific trinkets that tend to make raiders feel like they need to run Raid Finder alongside their weekly guild raids today."

Now does that mean they are removing trinkets? I can't say for sure, but at the minimum they won't be useful trinkets if they do exist. So the real raiders don't have to get their poor abused panties in a bunch over touching the plebs to get a trinket.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Draegan on May 01, 2014, 09:03:42 AM
The players they want don't exist in the numbers they once did. The players they want are me when I was in my mid 20s with no other obligations.

This is probably true since most early WOW players came off of EQ or heard of EQ or were influenced by early WOW players.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on May 01, 2014, 09:12:19 AM
They weren't being rewarded as awesomely. They were being rewarded with lower ilvl pieces of the same gear. The cosmetic change is what gets me. There's no reason for it other than butthurt.

I agree that's what THEY want LFR to be. For one thing, I'm not sure that's what the players want out of LFR, second I don't think LFR will achieve that goal. It's not going to make people suddenly want to schedule their life to a game. I don't think that the reason many people don't raid is because they don't know anybody, don't have a guild, or don't have the access to forums to see about raids.

Also, they said in the post, "The gear will fall in between dungeon loot and Normal mode raid loot in terms of power, as it does today, but without the set bonuses and specific trinkets that tend to make raiders feel like they need to run Raid Finder alongside their weekly guild raids today."

Now does that mean they are removing trinkets? I can't say for sure, but at the minimum they won't be useful trinkets if they do exist. So the real raiders don't have to get their poor abused panties in a bunch over touching the plebs to get a trinket.

The cosmetic and set changes are to encourage those that want the fancy tier suits to strive and better their game.  If you want to see it as butthurt, that's, like, your opinion, man. 

Dungeon trinkets were fine in their day.  Hell, the Mech. Drakling that you could fit with cogs that were usable by anyone was my fav trinket of 5.0. 


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Draegan on May 01, 2014, 09:54:20 AM
Paelos wants everyone to get a trophy. It's shitty game design, but whatever. It's World of Warcraft and it's a decade old at this point.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on May 01, 2014, 10:05:00 AM
Paelos wants everyone to get a trophy. It's shitty game design, but whatever. It's World of Warcraft and it's a decade old at this point.

It's not shitty game design because all the trophies are pointless. So why not hand them out and make money hand over fist?

People weren't running away from the game in droves when they opened the raiding floodgates in Wrath, and everyone was able to get into normal versions of raids.

I don't like LFR, but if they want to include it, they need to treat it like a tier. If they don't want to do that, just cut it. I honestly don't care what the baseline is, but I think they've terrified of cutting it because so many people like it. So instead, they'll just treat those people like second-class citizens in the hopes they'll pull themselves up to the next level by their bootstraps. That's awesome game design right there.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: apocrypha on May 01, 2014, 10:13:43 AM
I think they've terrified of cutting it because so many people like it.

Damn them for giving people fun things to, in a variety of different ways to suit everyone's schedule. Damn them! *shakes fist*

I have no interest in WoD personally, but really Paelos, you are tilting at windmills here. If all you want to do is LFR then you really won't miss a set bonus that you would probably only have got months into the expansion anyway. If you want to do flex/normal then you'll get your set bonuses.

And be honest, you'd probably transmog your raid gear anyway so who gives a shit about it being a different colour?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on May 01, 2014, 10:26:08 AM
Here's the thing. They've said in the past they wanted to have different progressions for people. They discussed the idea and tried to implement some progressions in the dungeon running game for people that didn't want to raid.

Then came LFR. Now dungeons are basically a side-show, scenarios are the new thing they seem to be focused on from a small content perspective, and LFR is the low bar of progression for the people that don't like to raid.

If they just make a quick clowngear run for the ghetto suits, do you think the people will stick around and raid higher tiers? Or will they say, meh I killed that big bad guy and I'll just unsub until the next patch?

I think they are giving their playerbase way too much credit about how they play. It's a bad design decision because if they want to be hardcore, delete LFR. If they want to be inclusive, keep LFR as a tier like it is. This is in the middle, and serves no real purpose other than to confuse the issue.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Draegan on May 01, 2014, 11:00:34 AM
I still don't see what you're complaining about other than LFR doesn't get set bonuses and their gear looks shittier. The game has different tiered content with different rewards and access ranges from keyboard turners and afkers to poopsockers.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on May 05, 2014, 08:22:01 PM
For me and other two people still playing/plan to play WoD, relevant info:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/14014199/siege-of-orgrimmar-changes-in-patch-60-and-warlords-of-draenor-5-5-2014

Quote
In the recent Dev Watercooler: Raiding Azeroth Part 3—Warlords of Draenor, we discussed some of the raid changes coming in the next WoW expansion. Before Warlords of Draenor launches, players will have a chance to experience the new raid structure firsthand in the Siege of Orgrimmar.

In the upcoming Patch 6.0, the pre-expansion “systems” update planned to go live in the weeks leading up to Warlords of Draenor’s release, we’ll be converting Siege of Orgrimmar to use the new Normal, Heroic, and Mythic difficulties. Both Normal and Heroic difficulties will support flexible raid sizes and our cross-server Group Finder tool, while Mythic will be a fixed 20-player size. At the same time, “stat squish” will be in effect, the new class changes will be live, and Hit and Expertise will no longer be stats on items, so those will be replaced with more useful ones on all existing items. The raid as a whole will be retuned for the new numbers and scaling size—overall, it should prove no more difficult than it is currently, and will likely be easier in many places.

With the end of an expansion and a raid tier, along with introduction of a new level cap, we’ll also be retiring a handful of rewards. We want to encourage everyone to enjoy one last hurrah in the Siege of Orgrimmar before your adventure on Draenor begins.

In addition to the above changes, when Patch 6.0 arrives:

Flexible Raid difficulty will cease to exist as it does now, and will be removed from the raid queue interface. The new Normal difficulty of Siege of Orgrimmar will offer a similar experience to that of Flexible Raid.
The new Group Finder tool will be available, designed to help players create and find groups for Normal and Heroic Siege of Orgrimmar and other cross-realm group content.
Siege of Orgrimmar achievements will be relabeled according to the new difficulty structure (e.g. “Heroic: Malkorok” will now be “Mythic: Malkorok”). Credit for these will be retroactively awarded to players who earned them before Patch 6.0.
The Garrosh Hellscream “Ahead of the Curve” and “Cutting Edge” Feats of Strength will cease to be obtainable.
This means that the Kor’kron War Wolf, awarded by the “Ahead of the Curve” Feat of Strength, will also cease to be obtainable upon release of the pre-expansion Patch 6.0.
With the release of Patch 6.0, the drop rate of the Heirloom weapons from Garrosh Hellscream on Normal, Heroic, and Mythic difficulties will be significantly increased.
Players who have yet to get any Heirlooms will have a 100% (guaranteed) chance of getting a spec-appropriate Heirloom when defeating Garrosh on Normal difficulty or higher.
The chance of receiving additional Heirlooms beyond the first will also be increased.

When Warlords of Draenor is released and players are able to head to Draenor and level past 90:

Garrosh Hellscream will no longer drop Heirloom weapons.
The Kor’kron Juggernaut mount will cease being a guaranteed drop from Mythic Garrosh Hellscream, and will instead become a rare drop (like Invincible’s Reins, Mimiron’s Head, etc.).

All other loot, achievements, and cosmetic rewards (e.g. the Kor’kron Dark Shaman transmog set, rare battle pets, etc.) will remain unchanged.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Soulflame on May 06, 2014, 10:12:48 AM
So.  How long until Flexible Raids are back.

It's utterly fascinating seeing them continuously take steps backwards, after fleeing populations force them to make changes in an effort to keep those that are left.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on May 06, 2014, 10:47:02 AM
So.  How long until Flexible Raids are back.

wut?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Mithas on May 06, 2014, 10:48:44 AM
Wait. They are taking flex raids out? I thought they were hugely popular and very successful?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on May 06, 2014, 10:53:29 AM
Guys, no. They are making normal raids the new flex. All the normal raids have the flex ruleset of 10-25 players.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on May 06, 2014, 11:43:05 AM
Guys, no. They are making normal raids the new flex. All the normal raids have the flex ruleset of 10-25 players.

Thus the "wut?". People need to read shit before they start hemhawing about shit.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ragnoros on May 06, 2014, 03:20:01 PM
(http://gameaholic.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/WoD-raid-structure.jpg)


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on May 06, 2014, 03:22:24 PM
Ah I see your issue.  it's the new raiding line up says 10-25 meaning anywhere between 10 and 25 people, not 10 OR 25.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lantyssa on May 07, 2014, 08:55:30 AM
What's silly is they're going from four categories to four categories.  There was no reason to change the name and confuse people.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Mithas on May 07, 2014, 09:19:15 AM
I also read they weren't going to be using scenarios for group content. There goes another thing that I liked. My limited playtime made scenarios perfect for me. Plus most of them were fun.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on May 07, 2014, 10:10:06 AM
What's silly is they're going from four categories to four categories.  There was no reason to change the name and confuse people.

It's going from six to four.  Currently it's...

Raid finder
Flex
Norm 10
Norm 25
Heroic 10
Heroic 25

They are throwing out the term 'flex' since all but mythic are flex now it's redundant.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lantyssa on May 07, 2014, 02:27:10 PM
Norm 10 and Norm 25 going to Norm 10-25 is the same difficulty without a fixed number of people.  Same with Heroic.  If the name of Flex was a problem then they should have just changed it's name to Potty Training or something.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on May 07, 2014, 02:34:06 PM
They figured out that flex was what, hell people like me have been asking for since 2010. The rigid numbers on raiding were alway a problem.

The fact they drug their feet this long to get to a really good idea is frustrating, considering the losses they had in the meantime. I doubt I would have quit Cataclysm if flex existed.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rokal on May 07, 2014, 03:50:32 PM
Norm 10 and Norm 25 going to Norm 10-25 is the same difficulty without a fixed number of people.  Same with Heroic.  If the name of Flex was a problem then they should have just changed it's name to Potty Training or something.

Why would they continue to call it Flex when Normal and Heroic are both adopting the "Flexible" grouping model that the name is based on?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Azazel on May 08, 2014, 05:22:35 AM
They are going to get blowtorched over that decision if they follow through with no flying.

Considering they've been selling flying ponies for cash, they are completely fucking those paying customers over. I don't think that's a group you want to mess with.

No flying?

Fuck that. No buying expansion.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Hutch on May 08, 2014, 06:08:06 AM
The Blizzard of today puts me in mind of Brann Bronzebeard in WotLK. He, too, wanted to tinker with the machines that were built by his betters, long ago. He, too, pushed buttons and pulled levers, without understanding what they did. And he, too, acted all surprised when the floor caught on fire.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Maven on May 09, 2014, 03:31:38 AM
That is a brilliant analogy.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Wizgar on May 12, 2014, 02:36:51 AM
No flying?

Fuck that. No buying expansion.

I'm going to enjoy the inevitable humiliating backdown from Blizzard on this.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Soulflame on May 12, 2014, 10:24:57 AM
Unless they specifically model the terrain to allow for flying, they won't allow flying.  Since they're not allowing flying, there's no reason to expect they are spending money on creating assets in such a way that they work for flying players.

At best, they might allow flying in a few expansions, when they drastically revamp the entire leveling flow.  Again.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rendakor on May 12, 2014, 11:08:36 AM
It's possible that the outcry will be so great that the first major content patch for WoD will be adding flying instead of new raids.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rokal on May 12, 2014, 11:20:28 AM
Fun article on the Tier 0.5 quests if you want to take a nostalgia trip today:
http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/05/11/wow-archivist-tier-0-5-and-the-birth-of-modern-dungeons/


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on May 12, 2014, 11:50:31 AM
Fun article on the Tier 0.5 quests if you want to take a nostalgia trip today:
http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/05/11/wow-archivist-tier-0-5-and-the-birth-of-modern-dungeons/

Ah man, that was the best patch ever  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Zetor on May 12, 2014, 01:40:14 PM
Fun article on the Tier 0.5 quests if you want to take a nostalgia trip today:
http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/05/11/wow-archivist-tier-0-5-and-the-birth-of-modern-dungeons/
Man, those memories. I remember our (non-raid) guild running TWO groups through the entire storyline... oh, the laughs, and the tears (like when we tried to do 45min strat with no physical damage classes). Some of the best times I ever had in WOW!


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rokal on May 12, 2014, 01:58:13 PM
I don't think I did any steps past Baron 45. From what I remember, the gold costs got really steep the further you got into the quest and eventually I couldn't afford them. This was back in Vanilla where the best source of gold if you didn't want to play the AH was farming Tyr's Hand mobs mindlessly.

Still, pretty cool to have it all laid out in retrospect. The legendary cloak quest in MoP was probably as close as they've come since Vanilla to making a quest line that was this complex, but it really didn't evoke the same feeling. It was too stream-lined, too much "progress this quest by doing stuff you were already doing".


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: pants on May 12, 2014, 05:46:14 PM
The legendary cloak quest in MoP was probably as close as they've come since Vanilla to making a quest line that was this complex, but it really didn't evoke the same feeling. It was too stream-lined, too much "progress this quest by doing stuff you were already doing".

The other one they did really well was the epic hunter bow questline.  That was very well done, and damn hard, especially how they deliberately put in all the key skills hunters needed back then (kiting, wing clipping, trap dancing and aoe volleying).  It had a real sense of graduating from hunter school to be able to get that way back when.

Its a pity they didn't do more stuff like that.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Malakili on May 13, 2014, 02:30:03 AM
I was already in a raiding guild at that point that had all of our members getting gear a lot better than tier .5, but a lot of people wanted to do it anyway because they were the type of people that wanted full sets of everything.  It was a good addition to the game overall, although I think it failed somewhat to do what is what supposed to do.  It was DAMNED HARD for people who weren't already well geared or who weren't well organized.  Generally speaking if you could do the content to get tier. 5, you were in a position to do raids anyway or were already doing raids.

At least that is how it was on our server.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Selby on May 13, 2014, 05:17:56 AM
Generally speaking if you could do the content to get tier. 5, you were in a position to do raids anyway or were already doing raids.

At least that is how it was on our server.
My server and group was the same way.  Although getting 40 people together for MC was a challenge...


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Fabricated on May 13, 2014, 09:09:42 AM
The Tier 0.5 stuff was horrid considering that by and large the sets were terrible stat-wise. It was a big money and time sink and the Baron run was a complete unfun dickpuncher I did dozens of times for various people. The final boss of the series in UBRS was stupidly overtuned for the kind of people who should've been doing it to get upgrades.

It wasn't epic; it was a miserable grind for a neat looking but statistically crappy reward. It was less of a grind to run ZG, AQ20, or organize an MC run.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on May 13, 2014, 09:20:07 AM
Yep I organized several MC runs, but never did all the Tier 0.5 stuff. It started as MC trash runs and graduated into getting to Garr, then eventually clearing the thing.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on May 13, 2014, 10:12:43 AM
We farmed ZA and BWL and said fuck .5 as it came out around that time. It wasn't worth the time and organization effort to try vs those runs.  The two or three people I knew who had it did so on their own on off days.  Most were the type of player who could sink 8 hours into the game on a "short" day.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Zetor on May 13, 2014, 10:28:08 AM
The Tier 0.5 stuff was horrid considering that by and large the sets were terrible stat-wise. It was a big money and time sink and the Baron run was a complete unfun dickpuncher I did dozens of times for various people. The final boss of the series in UBRS was stupidly overtuned for the kind of people who should've been doing it to get upgrades.

It wasn't epic; it was a miserable grind for a neat looking but statistically crappy reward. It was less of a grind to run ZG, AQ20, or organize an MC run.
Well, YMMV and all, but I had the opposite experience.

I've been (still am) in a non-raiding guild of mostly casual gamers. Pugging any raid on my server (except for maybe MC/ZG/AQ20 if you 'knew people', but there's no way in hell I'm spending 8 hours in a MC half-pug) was not an option, so we ran 5-mans (sometimes co-oping with another guild to run UBRS, and ZG maybe once or twice, though that was a scheduling nightmare), did some pvp here and there, and that was it.

Yeah, the grind in some of the tier0.5 steps was ridiculous (like the ones in the overworld gathering 20 wotsits, and the summoning thing in Silithus), and the 45min Strat basically required a good group makeup AND near-perfect execution if you didn't outgear it. And yet, we still enjoyed it, because it was a huge challenge with some pretty fun parts (like the 'new' bosses in some dungeons, the BRD arena fight being one of the most memorable to this day). Valthalak was probably more mechanically complex than the entirety of MC and most of ZG/AQ20 *and* we had to reach into our friends list to fill out a 10-man raid to get him (twice!), but it was still good stuff.

The rewards? Yea, they sucked (for the most part). Darkmantle was sorta ok because of the energy regeneration set bonus, but my paladin's tier0.5 is some sort of messed-up badly hybridized mess. Ditto with Heroism (IIRC), which tried to be an AQ40 'all around warrior set', only it was so low ilevel that it didn't actually work. Feralheart was decent I think, and the mage set was ok... maybe? Still, we didn't run it for phat loot, we ran it because it was THE thing to do unless you were in a raid guild.

e: and it definitely wasn't as much of a time-waster than almost any of the other 'endgame' options. An average MC run you could get into on our server took 6-7 *hours*. We did every step of the t0.5 questline in a group at the pace of a few steps a week, spending maybe 1 hour a day on it a few days a week. This went up to 4 hours on a scheduled day (typically Saturday) when we could work on the next 'showstopper' like Strat 45, the Silithus farming run from hell, or Valthalak.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on May 13, 2014, 10:40:54 AM
If there's one thing I wish Blizzard would emphasize more, it's the MC style of fights in an opening tier. Not necessarily the resistence crap that was awful, but the idea of some tank and spanks with 2 mechanics that aren't too complicated as your opening raid.

That would assist people in making the transition from LFR to normal that they seem to be desperately betting on.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on May 13, 2014, 01:00:02 PM
Female NE: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/14096397/artcraft-huntress-of-teldrassil-5-13-2014


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on May 13, 2014, 01:12:05 PM
Fang-gate NE edition.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on May 14, 2014, 02:26:58 PM
Fang-gate is over: https://twitter.com/artofcgrobinson/status/466351750329688064/photo/1


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rendakor on May 14, 2014, 03:08:59 PM
Wtf is fang gate?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on May 14, 2014, 03:10:28 PM
The first few comments of the preview had people up in arms about no fangs on the NE model. So Paelos dubbed it fang gate.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rendakor on May 14, 2014, 03:41:20 PM
Ah, thanks. I checked out the pictures but never read comments anywhere.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on May 20, 2014, 11:38:25 AM
OMG!  A new unannounced until now feature: CLASS ACCESSORIES!

http://www.wowhead.com/news=239843/artcraft-transmoggable-class-relics-and-other-accessories

tl;dr: Hunter's missed having quivers, so we're putting them back in cosmetic looks and transmog fun, and everyone is getting something cool looking too.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on May 20, 2014, 11:40:27 AM
*Content


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on May 20, 2014, 11:42:27 AM
I bet deathknight get a skull that ends up getting so big it envelops the dk making them one giant skull.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on May 20, 2014, 12:00:13 PM
Not sure what they'd give warriors.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on May 20, 2014, 12:04:40 PM
A chance to reroll paladin?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Typhon on May 20, 2014, 12:11:37 PM
An armored cod piece!


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ingmar on May 20, 2014, 12:43:08 PM
Shoulder pads for their shoulder pads.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rokal on May 20, 2014, 01:19:08 PM
OMG!  A new unannounced until now feature: CLASS ACCESSORIES!

http://www.wowhead.com/news=239843/artcraft-transmoggable-class-relics-and-other-accessories

tl;dr: Hunter's missed having quivers, so we're putting them back in cosmetic looks and transmog fun, and everyone is getting something cool looking too.

They also implied that these minor cosmetic additions probably wouldn't be added to the game until the expansion after WoD.

Look forward to having a quiver appear on your character again in ~3 years, because that is a reasonable amount of time to wait for a minor cosmetic feature.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on May 20, 2014, 02:21:47 PM
Heh, that's totally insane if they are planning that far out for something that should take a couple of months even by Blizzard coding standards.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on May 20, 2014, 03:32:04 PM
More like it's a bait and switch to get people to come back that will be forgotten inside of 3 months of release and never mentioned again beyond, "Oh what, you thought we were serious?"

Much like Dance Studio.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on May 20, 2014, 03:41:55 PM
Seems desperate for a game that's supposedly got 7M subs. I wonder what kind of hit they take after this xpac flops.

The Titan thing still irks me. They obviously moved people off WoW which precipitated this decline, and we've seen nothing for it.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Hutch on May 20, 2014, 03:54:10 PM
Seems desperate for a game that's supposedly got 7M subs. I wonder what kind of hit they take after this xpac flops.

I'm predicting at least 2 million subs cancelled by this time next year.
That's assuming that they let this expansion go live, without reversing their stance on letting players fly in the new zones.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on May 20, 2014, 03:56:30 PM
I'm also wondering at what point Blizzard realizes that F2P is the only way to get the game back on track. Like what level of subs do they finally switch over? 2M? Less than 1M?

Or do they just go down with the ship and never convert?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Hutch on May 20, 2014, 04:32:46 PM
If they have 7 million subs right now, the game isn't off the tracks. F2P is only the answer if you believe that F2P games are actually competing with WoW.

They're not. Only one thing can bring down WoW, and that's Blizzard.
In Cataclysm and (presumably) WoFWaB, they have made a point of kicking the players in the nuts, instead of just keeping the difficulty level at roughly the same position on the dial, and then adding activities for players, or adding choices to existing activities, like they did (more or less) in Pandaria.

I'd love to be a fly on the wall when the current dev team has to explain to the suits, how they lost millions of subs because they don't like the players they have.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on May 20, 2014, 09:52:36 PM
That wasn't my question, though. My question was what level of sub drop does WoW go to F2P, if ever? I don't think WoW is off the tracks, I just think it's inevitably going to continue shedding subs. I wonder if F2P would reverse the trend. The only thing stopping me from playing WoW is the sub. I can't pay good money for what they are offering right now on a monthly basis.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Setanta on May 21, 2014, 03:49:16 AM
I know what you mean. For all its flaws, I find GW2 more attractive to WoW due to F2P (even though I did spend cash in the GW2 TP) and am not interested in Wildstar at all because it's subscription based.

Back in the day I happily paid my WoW sub but came to the conclusion it just wasn't worth it. If it went F2P I'd probably go back and check it out. I may do so anyway when the expansion hits but Cata and MoP have not faded from my memory.

To show how perverse I can be - I still maintain my Eve subscription.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on May 21, 2014, 08:41:17 AM
See I don't mind paying for content packages. If WoW wanted to charge based on raid updates or whatever, that's fine. If I can play and get pet battles, then actually pay for when they put out content? That's going to encourage them to create stuff instead of just dicking around endlessly, or creating cock-blocks to extend subs.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Hutch on May 21, 2014, 10:43:20 AM
That wasn't my question, though. My question was what level of sub drop does WoW go to F2P, if ever? I don't think WoW is off the tracks, I just think it's inevitably going to continue shedding subs. I wonder if F2P would reverse the trend. The only thing stopping me from playing WoW is the sub. I can't pay good money for what they are offering right now on a monthly basis.

Fair enough. I think I was just looking for an excuse to rant.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rasix on May 21, 2014, 11:10:39 AM
Do we actually have numbers for NA/European subs and metrics for top tier raid progression/participation (Asian numbers are weird, their method for calculating these always struck me as strange)?  These are the numbers I'd look at if you're talking about a decline.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on May 21, 2014, 12:34:12 PM
I know of Wowprogress for NA and EU, but I'm unsure how reliable the numbers would be. I believe it goes off armory records.

From what it's saying about 36,000 guilds were raiding T16. It was about 48k in T15, 52k in T14 at the beginning of Mists.

64k at the end of Cataclsym in T13, 69k in T12, and 75.5k at the beginning of Cataclysm.

Supposedly it was 85k guilds raiding 10 mans during ICC according to their numbers.

So just using that frame of reference, there's been a 58% drop roughly in guilds attempting raids since ICC.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on May 21, 2014, 12:44:18 PM
Yes, Wowprogress uses armory so it's going to be the most reliable.

It aggregates participation based on achievements, so it's also not something you can fake.  The flaw with it used to be that if a single member of a guild got an achieve, it counted that guild as having participated, even if it was one guy in a PUG.  So it was more useful to look at "Number of <max level> raiding" than it was # of guilds.

They should have some info on their FAQ about how they count guilds. That's how I learned it in the first place.  If it STILL counts things that way and the numbers have dropped that much its damning.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on May 21, 2014, 12:47:26 PM
Yes I think it's that damning assuming they count things the same way.

I'm not sure if it counts LFR, and I'm assuming it doesn't, so I would imagine that's where the huge drop comes from. In addition to sub drops.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on May 21, 2014, 02:05:38 PM
I'm pretty sure it counts LFR as those grant the same achieves as actual raids, outside of heroics.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on May 21, 2014, 02:06:35 PM
I'm pretty sure it counts LFR as those grant the same achieves as actual raids, outside of heroics.

If that's the case it's about 5x worse then in my mind.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on May 22, 2014, 11:58:22 AM
Took you long enough to steal this from GW2, Blizzard!

Quote
CONFIRM_BUY_REAGNETBANK_TAB - Do you want to purchase the Reagent Bank for:
REAGENT_BANK - Reagent Bank
REAGENTBANK_DEPOSIT - Deposit All Reagents
REAGENTBANK_PURCHASE_TEXT - This tab gives you additional storage for raw profession materials.\nDo you wish to purchase this tab?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on May 22, 2014, 04:00:07 PM
Female Undead and Tauren skins got patched in, but no models yet


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Tannhauser on May 22, 2014, 04:23:11 PM
Took you long enough to steal this from GW2, Blizzard!

Quote
CONFIRM_BUY_REAGNETBANK_TAB - Do you want to purchase the Reagent Bank for:
REAGENT_BANK - Reagent Bank
REAGENTBANK_DEPOSIT - Deposit All Reagents
REAGENTBANK_PURCHASE_TEXT - This tab gives you additional storage for raw profession materials.\nDo you wish to purchase this tab?

Oh very nice!


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rokal on May 27, 2014, 11:11:31 AM
Fun article on the Tier 0.5 quests if you want to take a nostalgia trip today:
http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/05/11/wow-archivist-tier-0-5-and-the-birth-of-modern-dungeons/

Second/final half in the link below. I don't think I ever made that far in the quest chain myself, but I remember that pain-in-the-ass dragon boss at the end so I must have helped some guild-mates who finished the whole thing.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/05/25/wow-archivist-tier-0-5-the-epic-conclusion/

You can imagine a crazy quest chain like that having more appeal in a modern expansion with transmog gear. Could reward armor sets similar to what you get out of challenge modes for doing something similar, etc.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on May 28, 2014, 02:18:37 PM
Four part preview of Garrisons begins NAO!

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/14001702/garrison-preview-part-1-your-base-on-draenor-5-28-2014

tl;dr - We were super serious about making Garrisons part of leveling, and now you get an outpost in every WoD zone to go with it to influence your questing track.

 :drill:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on May 28, 2014, 02:26:08 PM
Build your own quest hub, customize the landscape of azeroth to your liking, forget this is an mmo but still pay a subscription because, money?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on May 28, 2014, 02:41:17 PM
Sounds like a good idea, it's sort of housing but not really. I'd want to see what kind of customization options they have, if any.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Hutch on May 28, 2014, 03:29:02 PM
Goddammit. I really like what I see in that Garrisons article.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on May 28, 2014, 06:41:34 PM
Sounds like a good idea
Who are you, and what have you done with the real Paelos?  :grin:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on May 28, 2014, 06:50:03 PM
Goes to show you I don't complain about good ideas, only the bad ones.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Fabricated on May 29, 2014, 07:54:47 AM
That's a lot of work on a thing that no one will ever touch again after the next expansion.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on May 29, 2014, 08:17:11 AM
You mean like the Cataclysm world revamp?  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Hutch on May 29, 2014, 09:20:38 AM
Every expansion, including Vanilla WoW, has had a ton of work put into content that goes immediately unused as soon as the next expansion arrives.
At least this garrison concept is the sort of thing they can carry forward into future expansions.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on May 29, 2014, 09:35:33 AM
Every expansion, including Vanilla WoW, has had a ton of work put into content that goes immediately unused as soon as the next expansion arrives.
At least this garrison concept is the sort of thing they can carry forward into future expansions.


Raid content basically becomes useless every xpac. I don't mind that either. Timeless Isle is going to become useless, but it was a great idea. They need to do more stuff like that instead of rehashing old content.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on May 29, 2014, 10:08:18 AM
Having one base of operations you can customize sounded really cool when they pitched it.  This just seems like you'll be able to customize your questlog  bit which isn't bad but it's definitely not as cool.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on May 29, 2014, 10:09:50 AM
Yeah I'm sure the implementation will be like farms. Meaning you can upgrade stuff but customize very little.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on May 29, 2014, 10:21:40 AM
But from what it reads it'll be just one building per zone meaning you'll have to fly taxi to another zone to use another one if you need it for something.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Zetor on May 29, 2014, 11:38:58 AM
The entire Timewalker concept (scaling your character down to do dungeons/raids from previous expansions) seems to imply that Bliz isn't quite finished with rehashing old content yet.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on May 29, 2014, 11:49:42 AM
The entire Timewalker concept (scaling your character down to do dungeons/raids from previous expansions) seems to imply that Bliz isn't quite finished with rehashing old content yet.  :awesome_for_real:

Yeah I'm thinking that's an option rather than the norm. I'd still like to farm MC occasionally by myself.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Hutch on May 29, 2014, 01:06:20 PM
Wow, here's some chutzpah. "We're not going to let you fly in the next expansion. Here's a 35% sale on a flying mount. Buy now!" (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/14243638/this-week-only-35-off-armored-bloodwing-and-blossoming-ancient-5-28-2014)


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on May 29, 2014, 01:14:51 PM
Best quote from the comments section:

Quote
Get ready for many more deals. We got a couple more quarterly reports to "boost" until WoD.

 :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rokal on June 04, 2014, 01:33:03 PM
New blog up on WoD stats:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/14322443/dev-watercooler-stat-updates-for-warlords-of-draenor-6-4-2014

Spoiler: they still have no idea what the fuck they are doing and have scrapped a bunch of the proposed new stats. This expansion is never going to come out.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on June 04, 2014, 03:02:54 PM
Do you think the current devs realize how badly they are fucking their own game with these delays and restructures?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rokal on June 04, 2014, 03:42:49 PM
I'm not convinced anyone at Blizzard is aware of how much their design philosophy hurts their games, TBH. The never-ending revamps of stats/classes/abilities/questing that they seem to be going for with Warlords doesn't feel much different from the pre-launch changes Diablo 3 constantly underwent for 6+ years.

Cycle seems to be:
1) Have ideas for how to improve the game
2) Not be satisfied with the implementation of those ideas, redo it
3) Delay product
4) Not be satisfied with the implementation of redone ideas, redo it
5) Now being 6-24 months behind schedule and still not satisfied with implementation, create something quick & dirty instead and finally launch. Alternatively, scrap the idea and launch.

Examples of #5 are nearly endless: Archaeology, stat system in Diablo 3, Versatility as a new stat in WoD, Path of the Titans, etc.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on June 04, 2014, 03:59:48 PM
This expansion could be called "GARRISONS! and some other shit. We promise."


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on June 04, 2014, 05:51:00 PM
Archaeology

God damn it I forgot how much I wanted to like this.  Hell the entire tradeskill could have been just clicking obkects and getting some lore but they made it the most unfun, grindy thing possible.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Typhon on June 04, 2014, 06:27:41 PM
New blog up on WoD stats:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/14322443/dev-watercooler-stat-updates-for-warlords-of-draenor-6-4-2014

Spoiler: they still have no idea what the fuck they are doing and have scrapped a bunch of the proposed new stats. This expansion is never going to come out.

I'm torn by this post.  I laughed, and I enjoyed it.  Then I felt bad for you, because I know you like this game and want it to improve.  This thread usually brings me great joy, but today it's bitter-sweet.  (I've been drinking, so this is actually sincere).


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on June 04, 2014, 06:59:26 PM
New blog up on WoD stats:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/14322443/dev-watercooler-stat-updates-for-warlords-of-draenor-6-4-2014

Spoiler: they still have no idea what the fuck they are doing and have scrapped a bunch of the proposed new stats. This expansion is never going to come out.
Counterpoint: Go look at MMO Champion right now.  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on June 04, 2014, 07:46:30 PM
Scrapping ideas wholesale + alpha starting = good?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on June 04, 2014, 09:33:18 PM
Scrapping ideas wholesale + alpha starting = good?

Any release of information by Blizzard is good to some group of people.

My hope originally when they hinted that 5.4 was going to be the last content patch, that they would have the next expansion ready in 9 months. After all, working on basically nothing else for 3 quarters should be enough time to put out some focused content.

Instead, we're here.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rokal on June 04, 2014, 10:50:20 PM
New blog up on WoD stats:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/14322443/dev-watercooler-stat-updates-for-warlords-of-draenor-6-4-2014

Spoiler: they still have no idea what the fuck they are doing and have scrapped a bunch of the proposed new stats. This expansion is never going to come out.
Counterpoint: Go look at MMO Champion right now.  :oh_i_see:

According to MMO Champion, more Alpha test invites are finally going out. As a reminder, Alpha testing started ~4-5 months ago which is why we've had datamined Alpha client info for ages. This isn't a big milestone that indicates how close we are to release: this is a reminder of how far up shit creek they really are.

In 3 months subscribers will have been playing the current content patch for over a year. At the current rate they will be delivering the expansion right around the deadline they gave themselves with pre-sales (late December), and likely with a lot of stuff they've been working on, such as new stats, scrapped.

Edit: Only the horde starter zones in WoD are available for testers at the moment if you needed more proof how under-baked the expansion currently is.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on June 05, 2014, 08:42:21 AM
I honestly wonder WTF they are working on. If I was Activision, I would be all over these guys to put something out in the next 3 months, or heads will roll. They've had basically a year non-stop to carve this out, and they are wasting time.

Revenues are already dipping on that end, and ATVI is trying to move away from WoW as their main cashflow source. But this kind of delay is going to push that from transition to exodus. Q1 was the first time in a long time that cash flow came out negative for the quarter. I can't imagine Q2 and Q3 are going to be a lot better at this rate.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Draegan on June 05, 2014, 10:25:57 AM
Multistrike looks like a fun stat. I like the design theory behind all these new stats. Stats that make your character play different rather than just +gooder. Good on them.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ragnoros on June 05, 2014, 12:10:51 PM
Multistrike looks like a fun stat. I like the design theory behind all these new stats. Stats that make your character play different rather than just +gooder. Good on them.

Did we read the same article? Versatility is LITERALLY +gooder the stat. Multistrike is crit with a different name. The rest are minor effects like 5% less AOE damage, whoop de fricken do.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Draegan on June 05, 2014, 12:40:06 PM
You're one of those people who doesn't have fun at parties do you?

Multistrike looks fun in the same vein it's fun to see GIANT CRIT NUMBERS WEEE! If I shit out three fireballs instead of one, that's cool. If I cast a fireball and just see lots of numbers at the same time, that's cool too.

But yes you're right about the Versatility stat. Shrug.

This game is old as fuck, who really cares anymore?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on June 05, 2014, 01:13:08 PM
Certainly not the developers, or they'd have done something by now. This is taking forever.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on June 05, 2014, 05:57:24 PM
Why do you care? I thought you were ~*DONE FOREVER*~ with WoW?   :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lantyssa on June 05, 2014, 06:10:34 PM
Multi-strike is really a super-crit, as the more you have, the more likely you are to do extra damage.  It'll run into the same problem that CoH had with resistance or defense nearing 100%, only with damage instead of mitigation.  If you can get both multi-strike and versatility, it's game over.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rokal on June 05, 2014, 09:22:54 PM
I don't have a problem with versatility as a stat, it's just boring. They may as well call it "Also Mastery".


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Draegan on June 06, 2014, 08:36:34 AM
Multi-strike is really a super-crit, as the more you have, the more likely you are to do extra damage.  It'll run into the same problem that CoH had with resistance or defense nearing 100%, only with damage instead of mitigation.  If you can get both multi-strike and versatility, it's game over.

Yeah but WOW is a simple game for most people. If I were playing, I like the idea of seeing MOAR numbers flashing on my screen. But I'm a simple kind of guy too. Toss in crit and you have MOAR BIGGERS. \o/


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on June 21, 2014, 05:03:15 AM
From the default UI Oqueue replacement:
(http://i.minus.com/iRmyUvfWSBipj.jpg)

 :grin:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Hutch on June 27, 2014, 12:51:04 PM
LOL (https://twitter.com/mumper/status/482381728393072641)

So apparently the Blizzard devs put a bunch of time and effort into making Karabor and Bladespire the Alliance and Horde capital cities in Draenor-2. I say "apparently" because I haven't been paying attention up until now.

But today, on the day that WoFWAB beta invites go out, this toolbox (https://twitter.com/mumper) goes on twitter to announce that the Alliance and Horde capitals will both be what amount to shanty towns in the PvP zone known as Ashran.

The evidence keeps mounting that these blockheads hate their playerbase.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Mithas on June 27, 2014, 01:46:57 PM
I don't think they have any clue what they are doing anymore. I got a beta invite, not sure I even care.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on June 27, 2014, 03:01:30 PM
Maybe it's their way of forcing everyone to build up their stronghold?  Shit. Can't go to the Capitol.  Stronghold ahoy!

Or are the strongholds entirely uses cosmetic bullshit with no services?  I really haven't cared to read up as I already know I'm not buying.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on June 27, 2014, 04:18:41 PM
Maybe it's their way of forcing everyone to build up their stronghold?  Shit. Can't go to the Capitol.  Stronghold ahoy!

Or are the strongholds entirely uses cosmetic bullshit with no services?  I really haven't cared to read up as I already know I'm not buying.

Strongholds aren't what they originally were going to be.  Think of them like quest hubs where each zone you get to choose whether to build quest hub A or B.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on June 27, 2014, 04:32:27 PM
Really?

Ahahahahahahhahahahha.  That's awful for so many reasons. You thought phasing was bad in WOTLK, here, have it worse!


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on June 27, 2014, 06:52:24 PM
No idea why this matters, but it does seem to have ruffled some feathers.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ingmar on June 27, 2014, 06:53:52 PM
Because people thought it was going to be a cool housing-like system and now it isn't?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on June 27, 2014, 06:57:01 PM
Because people thought it was going to be a cool housing-like system and now it isn't?

So it's not garrisons? It's just a hovel?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Drubear on June 27, 2014, 07:02:02 PM
Or is it like AC2 (I think it was AC2) where players had to dump resources into the hubs to build them up? So lazy folk just wait till it's all done and pffft and meh?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Wizgar on June 28, 2014, 05:09:31 AM
Strongholds aren't what they originally were going to be.  Think of them like quest hubs where each zone you get to choose whether to build quest hub A or B.

The strongholds were the only fucking new feature in the expansion.

This is literally turning into a $60 content patch.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on June 28, 2014, 09:27:27 AM
Strongholds aren't what they originally were going to be.  Think of them like quest hubs where each zone you get to choose whether to build quest hub A or B.

The strongholds were the only fucking new feature in the expansion.

This is literally turning into a $60 content patch.

Wow, they've fucked this up in a way I never saw coming. I fully expected them to pour all their efforts into strongholds since that was their only real expansion selling point. The PR machine will have to turn hard now.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Hutch on June 28, 2014, 04:31:47 PM
Maybe it's their way of forcing everyone to build up their stronghold?  Shit. Can't go to the Capitol.  Stronghold ahoy!

Or are the strongholds entirely uses cosmetic bullshit with no services?  I really haven't cared to read up as I already know I'm not buying.

Strongholds aren't what they originally were going to be.  Think of them like quest hubs where each zone you get to choose whether to build quest hub A or B.

What? No. That is just part of it (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/14001702/garrison-preview-part-1-your-base-on-draenor-5-28-2014). The stuff in each zone, where you get to choose something, are outposts of your main base. Your main base is still going to be a big fat grind that you'll customize and level up. You choose what buildings are in your base, you recruit followers, all of that stuff is still in.

Or at least, the idiots making this thing haven't yet gone on twitter to announce that they're scrapping it so that you can really enjoy world PvP, if only you'd give it a chance you guys!


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ginaz on June 28, 2014, 11:53:06 PM
So this is going to be...a PVP focused expansion???  If this is true then the outcome is going to be worse, much worse, than Cata ever was.  Do they NOT know who comprises their player base? :facepalm:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Wizgar on June 29, 2014, 03:06:49 AM
Heard somewhere that battle pet breeding was axed. Anyone know anything?

If so, that's the end of the wife's interest in this expac and thus the end of mine.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on June 29, 2014, 04:00:12 AM
This thread is worse than MMO-C. Nice work everyone!


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Hutch on June 29, 2014, 08:48:57 AM
Heard somewhere that battle pet breeding was axed. Anyone know anything?

If so, that's the end of the wife's interest in this expac and thus the end of mine.

I didn't even know that was a thing. Did it get hyped at Blizzcon, or something?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Wizgar on June 29, 2014, 10:07:29 AM
I didn't even know that was a thing. Did it get hyped at Blizzcon, or something?

I think there was supposed to be an optional garrison building that let you do it. It was kept low-key and wasn't really hyped, but it was all my better half gave a shit about.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on June 29, 2014, 10:57:12 AM
Was it this?

http://www.warcraftpets.com/news/pet-breeding-offers-collectors-new-species-in-wod/


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Hutch on June 29, 2014, 11:00:49 AM
Was it this?

http://www.warcraftpets.com/news/pet-breeding-offers-collectors-new-species-in-wod/

Well that is an April Fool's joke. Look at the date on the article. Plus the "content designer" is named April Folson. And as you scroll down the hybrids get more and more ridiculous.
Pretty funny actually  :grin:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on June 29, 2014, 11:06:41 AM
Yeah but on the other hand Wizgar's posts.
Also:
LOL (https://twitter.com/mumper/status/482381728393072641)

So apparently the Blizzard devs put a bunch of time and effort into making Karabor and Bladespire the Alliance and Horde capital cities in Draenor-2. I say "apparently" because I haven't been paying attention up until now.
I don't think you were the only one not paying attention:
(http://i.imgur.com/MhL1tzK.png)

 :grin:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Hutch on June 29, 2014, 11:09:31 AM
I like how you keep trolling the Bitch thread.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on June 29, 2014, 11:14:04 AM
I like how you keep trolling the Bitch thread.
Yeah, well...

This thread is worse than MMO-C. Nice work everyone!


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on June 29, 2014, 12:25:14 PM
Keep on tilting those windmills.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: SurfD on June 29, 2014, 01:04:20 PM
Was it this?

http://www.warcraftpets.com/news/pet-breeding-offers-collectors-new-species-in-wod/
goddamnit.  And I was REALLY looking forward to breeding a Carpnado,


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on June 29, 2014, 06:38:00 PM
http://www.wowhead.com/news=241493/guild-leveling-effectively-removed-in-warlords-of-draenor

Self-describing URL is self-describing. I'm starting to have serious buyer's remorse over my pre-order  :uhrr:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on June 29, 2014, 06:51:36 PM
After poking around, it seems that some people have been successful in getting their pre-orders refunded by going through Bliz's support channels, though the action locks out your boosted-90 character until you give the money back or buy the expansion later.

I submitted a ticket just a little bit ago...will report back what happens.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on June 29, 2014, 07:00:51 PM
Guild leveling broke several of my guilds and the raid alliance, so I'm not sorry if they removed it entirely. It was a stupid idea from a failed game. Some things don't deserve to be assimilated into the Borg.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on June 29, 2014, 07:06:58 PM
There's usually at least a couple of people selling L25 guilds* in $CAPITAL_CITY anyway, so all this means is that you can actually pick the name rather than being stuck with <Rouge Angels of Satin>, <It burns when I PVP>, <I Crit In Your Mouth> or whatever.

(*Make guild, spam invites to everyone and their dog, lock down guild bank withdrawals, kick everyone when guild reaches L25, take all money/items from gbank, sell shell, repeat. It's not new).


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: SurfD on June 30, 2014, 01:24:58 AM
There's usually at least a couple of people selling L25 guilds* in $CAPITAL_CITY anyway, so all this means is that you can actually pick the name rather than being stuck with <Rouge Angels of Satin>, <It burns when I PVP>, <I Crit In Your Mouth> or whatever.

(*Make guild, spam invites to everyone and their dog, lock down guild bank withdrawals, kick everyone when guild reaches L25, take all money/items from gbank, sell shell, repeat. It's not new).
Not to mention that it is beyond stupidly easy to level a guild now.  I mean. Hell, my bank alt guild is something like level 15 right now.  It was level 3 when MoP started.  That is purely from the solo leveling of approximately 5 odd alts.  I dont even qualify for the massive guild Exp payouts of things like running guild 5 mans or guild PvP.  Hell, even a guild with only 5 active players in it should have EASILY hit 25 in MoP if they did dungeons or PvP together.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on June 30, 2014, 09:28:50 AM
After poking around, it seems that some people have been successful in getting their pre-orders refunded by going through Bliz's support channels, though the action locks out your boosted-90 character until you give the money back or buy the expansion later.

I submitted a ticket just a little bit ago...will report back what happens.

And success. Got the email this morning that my request has been granted, and I just got a separate email from the Bliz Store confirming my refund.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on June 30, 2014, 09:37:30 AM
I'd love to see how many people cancelled those preorders.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Hawkbit on June 30, 2014, 12:41:35 PM
They just sent me a free 7-day.  I logged in, saw neither my dad or brother have played in six months.  I tinkered around a bit and realized I just don't care about it any more.  I've played EQ1 more in the past two years than I have WoW.  That's relatively sad.

Chances of me purchasing this xpac are pretty much nil; even if I was given the content, I'm simply over the game too much to play it.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Wizgar on June 30, 2014, 01:10:20 PM
Was it this?

http://www.warcraftpets.com/news/pet-breeding-offers-collectors-new-species-in-wod/

No, that's an April Fool's joke based on the pet breeding system they had been talking about on Twitter (https://twitter.com/mumper/status/399368141366513664) over the previous six months.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on June 30, 2014, 07:05:45 PM
"Most of this is unconfirmed, unofficial news"
"Again, none of this has been officially announced yet"

Um.

Anyway, jumping puzzle! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9F-Vz5ZLp2w


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Setanta on July 01, 2014, 04:13:53 AM
If there's one thing Blizzard does well... it's integrate other companies' games into their own.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on July 01, 2014, 06:00:14 AM
Faction-specific Auction Houses are done. Everything is unified in 6.0


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Fabricated on July 01, 2014, 10:11:26 AM
That makes sense really. I imagine AH barons might be sad, or not.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Fordel on July 01, 2014, 04:39:01 PM
Oh they'll love it, saves the hassle of all the cross faction item trading and junk. Our tiny little guild had our servers resident AH mogul, he had like a dozen level 1 characters on either side to facilitate all his listings and stuff. It was pretty nuts.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ingmar on July 01, 2014, 05:02:19 PM
It will cut huge amounts of profit out for some of the guys on smaller server-sides. I had a friend who basically owned the entire jewelcrafting industry on a very small Horde server, because the market was small enough he could buy the entire thing out and set his own prices. Being forced to compete against their overpopulated Alliance side would really hurt him.

Overall a good change for the 99% though.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: SurfD on July 02, 2014, 12:32:31 AM
If the AH becomes unified I would assume that that means the "neutral" auction houses in the goblin towns are going away, so will using the AH to move Gold from cross faction become easier or harder?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on July 02, 2014, 08:42:15 AM
Easier. You can do it from a capital city with a lesser cut due to faction instead of an out of the way yellow AH vendor. (or did they take that faction mechanic out?)


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on July 02, 2014, 12:46:20 PM
I need to find out where to get this doff follower:
(http://i.imgur.com/YibbzFq.jpg?1)

(Also Leeroy and Jean-Claude down there)


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on July 02, 2014, 03:19:46 PM
That guy observed so many Slap in the Face victories (and defeats) in Karazhan it is not even funny.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Fabricated on July 02, 2014, 07:58:26 PM
I can't remember all the items that summoned images and shit like that but I remember having like all of them. I loved popping the archmage image in random places and stupid people would take his quests and ask in global why they suddenly got these really low level quests.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Mithas on July 03, 2014, 01:53:16 PM
Heh, Rob Pardo is leaving Blizzard.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Hutch on July 03, 2014, 02:01:30 PM
You can read Pardo's announcement here (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/13348514719) without subjecting yourself to either Kotaku or Joystiq  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on July 03, 2014, 02:27:24 PM
Who was saying that there's no way Ko-Dick would be dumb enough to kill the goose that laid the golden egg?

Ha.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Maven on July 04, 2014, 12:26:26 AM
The King is dead, Long Live the King.

Pardo leaving makes room for someone a new Design executive to come in and try to take Blizzard to whereever it needs to go in the next ten years. Now if they could just force Metzen out and break from the Blizzard IP trifecta in order to get some new, vibrant properties going.

Blizzard could be the games industry equivalent of a Pixar or other "Whatever we apply ourselves to, it will be amazing" type design company. Instead they're a Marvel wanna-be without the pop penetration. This doesn't undermine the sheer amount of crazy talent and expertise within its walls.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ironwood on July 04, 2014, 05:24:18 AM
The King is dead, Long Live the King.

Pardo leaving makes room for someone a new Design executive to come in and try to take Blizzard to whereever it needs to go in the next ten years. Now if they could just force Metzen out and break from the Blizzard IP trifecta in order to get some new, vibrant properties going.

Blizzard could be the games industry equivalent of a Pixar or other "Whatever we apply ourselves to, it will be amazing" type design company. Instead they're a Marvel wanna-be without the pop penetration. This doesn't undermine the sheer amount of crazy talent and expertise within its walls.

 :uhrr:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Hutch on July 04, 2014, 08:03:35 AM
Since Pardo isn't immediately moving to a position at another company, or announcing the birth of his own startup, my take was more along the lines of "leaving due to creative differences, but with more class than Street."

 :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ironwood on July 04, 2014, 08:27:32 AM
Yeah, that was almost certainly a 'Fuck This Place' or 'I've Been Fired' rather than a 'hey, new gig'.



Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on July 04, 2014, 09:42:44 AM
Yes, that's exactly what it was which is why my first suspect was Kotick interference.  We've seen it creep in slowly but I expect full on mobile and f2p monetization of gameplay elements PDQ in Blizzard's properties.  Depends on what we see come from Morhaime with this monumental shift.

The King is dead, Long Live the King.

Pardo leaving makes room for someone a new Design executive to come in and try to take Blizzard to whereever it needs to go in the next ten years. Now if they could just force Metzen out and break from the Blizzard IP trifecta in order to get some new, vibrant properties going.

Blizzard could be the games industry equivalent of a Pixar or other "Whatever we apply ourselves to, it will be amazing" type design company. Instead they're a Marvel wanna-be without the pop penetration. This doesn't undermine the sheer amount of crazy talent and expertise within its walls.

Other creative industry companies have had to do exactly what you're talking about in the past, from graphic design and advertising to architecture and movies. Creative endeavors in games aren't special and unique snowflakes. In longstanding companies the 'new generation' talent was able to shine without requiring the exit of their creative leader unless he was an absolute controlling and micromanaging dick. Are you saying that's a flaw of Pardo's?

Blizzard has long been held up as a Pixar by fans, but as you say has only had 3 properties. They're not going to be that, ever. They report to a bigger master who's been flexing his control over the last 4-5 years. Each microtransaction creep is another very evident chink in their armor. It's easy to convince guys in their early 50s through late 30s that "it's just a little compromise."  They have obligations, and that extra few hundred bucks in your check goes a lot farther than the goodwill of faceless geeks. Particularly when you're peen-measuring in So Cal and Silicon Valley.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Tannhauser on July 04, 2014, 09:57:32 AM
Yeah, that was almost certainly a 'Fuck This Place' or 'I've Been Fired' rather than a 'hey, new gig'.


That's my take on it as well.  Maybe he can start his own company and re-hire all the ex-Blizzard devs and create Snowstorm Entertainment.  :oh_i_see:



Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on July 04, 2014, 10:03:12 AM
Dobutful. More likely he'll be picked-up by someone than starting an endeavor of his own.  Creatives aren't the most business-savvy in my experience. They're too 'free spirited' for things like business rules and budgets.  (Now has a nightmare about his CCO becoming CEO)


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Fabricated on July 04, 2014, 11:24:24 AM
Maybe he can grab the dudes who left Runic since they can't seem to stand having the same gig for more than a week.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on July 04, 2014, 12:22:39 PM
I figured it was the other shoe dropping re: Titan.

And in other news: "So...it was a bear?" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jon4GV1u3uM)


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Wizgar on July 07, 2014, 02:35:13 PM
I'm just glad whenever one of those EverQuest fuckers hits the bricks. WoW's focus on raids that only maybe one in ten players really seem to genuinely give a fuck about (as opposed to muddling through in LFR or something because it's all there is to do) is an embarassing anachronism in 2014.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on July 07, 2014, 06:34:34 PM
So what do you suggest they replace it with?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Fabricated on July 07, 2014, 06:55:23 PM
I dunno, shitloads of 5-mans would be up my alley.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rendakor on July 07, 2014, 07:19:57 PM
Back in LK, raiding used to be accessible because the normal modes were relatively easy. Then they turned up the difficulty because the hardcore whined, and threw the casuals a bone with LFR. But LFR is shitty because you're playing with randoms instead of fucking around with your friends.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on July 07, 2014, 08:43:57 PM
Yes.

Plus the fuck-over of 'only one raid a week' instead of 'ok one 10 and one 25.'

Hell, I'm still a fan of the diablo 'go for broke' mode with a really big loot table, but the whining on Divinity: Original Sin steam forums about random loot shows me that the WoW-crowd RPGers won't handle that.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rokal on July 07, 2014, 09:10:42 PM
Back in LK, raiding used to be accessible because the normal modes were relatively easy. Then they turned up the difficulty because the hardcore whined, and threw the casuals a bone with LFR. But LFR is shitty because you're playing with randoms instead of fucking around with your friends.

And then they added Flex in MoP which had a similar difficulty to LK normals. In WoD flex will become the new normal, meaning that normal raiding will be back to LK levels of difficulty if not a little lower.

But by all means,  :dead_horse:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rendakor on July 07, 2014, 09:26:22 PM
Which is a great idea but the ship has sailed. They had an excellent system in LK and they ruined it with Cata so everyone I know stopped playing. MoP fixed the raiding difficulty but the launch was awful because of daily-rep-hell so the few people I know (self included) that went back didn't stay. Maybe we'll all try it again for WoD, but I doubt it because we're all just tired of chasing the dragon that was LK. Too little, too late has become the story of WoW for me now; I've been burned too many times to get my hopes up anymore.

Edit: Also as Merusk said, you can't do 10 and 25 in the same week anymore, which really sucks. Our 10m crew was fairly serious about progression (working on but not full clearing Heroic raids), but we liked to do 25m casually so we could bring our bad friends along for a good time. Now I'd need two characters to do that, or to do them on two different difficulties. Also the actual hardest raid is still capped at a specific size, and it's a strange one that hasn't existed before which is again fucking stupid. If they didn't want the last difficulty to be Flex, it should be 10, 25, or both. Instead they made it 20 because reasons, so if you have a guild of 25 that's doing the rest of the content you have to bench people when you get to hard mode; if that's a 25m crew that's somehow been raiding in WoW together since LK that's really fucking shitty.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on July 08, 2014, 12:25:42 AM
Our 10m crew was fairly serious about progression (working on but not full clearing Heroic raids), but we liked to do 25m casually so we could bring our bad friends along for a good time.

How is this possible, 25-man assholes were constantly insisting 25m was TOO HARD for my casual 10m brain to comprehend.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rendakor on July 08, 2014, 05:15:46 AM
Most fights had a larger margin of error in 25m, at least on normal; ToC's faction champs and the LK himself were two notable exceptions. The hardest part of 25m for us was always finding the ~5 randoms we inevitably needed to fill out our group without pissing anyone off re: loot comp.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on July 08, 2014, 06:21:14 PM
No no, I know, I did 25m once in a great while with my brother's guild, and I remember thinking, "Man, this is so much easier!" because you could carry a couple of derps without it being the end of the world. Which is why I was always greatly amused by the 25m people being all TEN MAN IS SO EASY DON'T YOU DARE GIVE THEM GEAR LIKE OURS.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Fabricated on July 08, 2014, 09:10:01 PM
I'd say it depended on the fight. "DON'T STAND IN THE THING OR THE RAID DIES" stuff like LK's defile, Putricide's slimes, Yogg Saron, Archimonde, etc are way harder in 25m because you only need 1 out of 25 people to be a gigantic retard to wipe the raid.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rendakor on July 08, 2014, 10:21:43 PM
There are more fights without mechanics like that than with, and worst-case scenario just have your bad facepull and die early and 24m it. The only reason we had more trouble with 25m than 10m (besides carrying bads) is that it was difficult to keep 25 people playing for a few hours, and even more difficult to get them back the next day to continue/attempt progression content since we always had a handful of PUGs.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on July 08, 2014, 10:22:27 PM
The blood queen and frost dragon in wotlk were also harder in 25 because of people who couldn't understand where to go.  My guild  lee through 10 man on those fights weeks before 25, and only after some of the deadlier derps missed the first kill.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rendakor on July 08, 2014, 10:32:42 PM
Blood Queen was easy if you had the specific addon for her that whispered each person and told them who to bite. If you didn't it was an absolute clusterfuck; if you got the biting right the fight was REALLY easy so everyone always wanted to do her on HM.

I'm not sure which frost dragon you're talking about, Sindragosa (ICC) or Sapphiron (Naxx). Sapph was easy if you had someone competent to decurse, and DBM handled the ice blocking shit well. Sindy was a fucking nightmare in 25m but we had a lot of trouble with her in 10m too; IIRC it took us longer (in terms of weeks of attempts) to kill her than the Lich King himself. I forgot how awful that fight was, fuck. It was really shitty because as a DK tank, my job was easy and I just had to hope the DPS could juggle the stupid debuff stacks in P3 properly.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on July 08, 2014, 10:36:51 PM
I remember the days of Wrath when someone came up with the telegraph addon. Maybe Bliz should either allow it to exist again or just implement it themselves in light of the popularity of their newest competitor  :grin:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ingmar on July 08, 2014, 10:37:27 PM
Sindragosa was probably the single hardest fight for our guild out of the raids we did. That or some of the stuff in the level 70 version of Zul'Aman, but that was more a matter of not being tuned for the gear level we had.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rendakor on July 08, 2014, 10:42:49 PM
25m Faction Champions was the only thing we had more trouble on. Our guild stopped doing 25m raids during ToC because of that fucking fight; too random and requiring too much personal responsibility, plus people kept trying to do it in fucking PVP gear.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on July 08, 2014, 10:43:35 PM
Blood queen problem was even when you had that addon, it still relied on people being competent enough to avoid fire, find the victim and hit the hot button.  Didn't help that popular addons like bartender would regularly fuck up, or so those who failed to bite and killed us all would say. " I swear the bar never changed. This is bs!"  

I meant Sindragosa.  I'd forgotten about the one in Naxx but it was derptastic on 25 too. So many morons failing to get behind the ice walls.  So many concerned with that extra 3 seconds of deeps.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ingmar on July 08, 2014, 11:24:04 PM
Faction Champs might be my favorite fight in all of the WoW raiding I did. Top 5, anyway. That fight was so much fun!


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on July 09, 2014, 12:27:58 AM
fucking sindragosa

fucking sindragosa


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: SurfD on July 09, 2014, 12:37:24 AM
fucking sindragosa

fucking sindragosa
Your magic will beeetraaaaayyyyyyyy yyouuu! :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on July 09, 2014, 01:52:47 AM
arghghghghghghghghgh

 :cry2:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Fabricated on July 09, 2014, 08:04:22 AM
I forgot Sindragosa. What a shitty unfun fight that was. My most hated tankswap fight because my OT was terrible.

But yeah, back on subject 25-man fights were easier if it was more of a general skill/DPS check. If it was a fight that ONE person who WASN'T the tank could wipe the whole raid on then it was typically a nightmare in 25-man.

Probably the two worst encounters in the game (from the content I played, meaning MoP/most of Cata is out) where THAT GUY could wipe the raid over and over were Archmonde and Gorefiend. If THAT GUY didn't hit his tears at the right time and cratered it was a wipe, if THAT GUY got picked for ghosts it was a wipe.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Hutch on July 09, 2014, 09:35:31 AM
Sindragosa was one of the first fights where I noticed that DBM wasn't doing anything for me (as a dps), that Blizzard wasn't already doing. Every move was telegraphed by her vocal warnings, you just had to learn which ones were which.

Every once in a while I have to pay attention to something from DBM, usually when the raid leader has given me a particular job. Gong-ringing, conveyor belt, etc.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on July 09, 2014, 05:05:33 PM
WotLK was about when they got good enough at various raid-y things that a lot of the mods were semi-redundant. I am pretty sure I only used Recount in Naxx and Ulduar, and I only had that installed because it made splitting up groups easier.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Fabricated on July 09, 2014, 10:00:22 PM
Whatever that one mod was that could draw on the 3d space in the world owned really hard and let us drag some really bad players through stuff like Putricide and LK until Blizz killed it.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rendakor on July 09, 2014, 10:04:27 PM
WotLK was about when they got good enough at various raid-y things that a lot of the mods were semi-redundant. I am pretty sure I only used Recount in Naxx and Ulduar, and I only had that installed because it made splitting up groups easier.
The default debuff UI was always shit, so most people needed either DBM or Power Auras to let them know they were the guy who had to run out or whatever. Recount was also very useful for progression attempts because of the death tracker; being able to tell everyone exactly how they died helped our guys improve a lot. "You stood in fire" vs "No one healed you for 8 seconds as you took unavoidable damage" is huge.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: SurfD on July 09, 2014, 11:43:09 PM
Whatever that one mod was that could draw on the 3d space in the world owned really hard and let us drag some really bad players through stuff like Putricide and LK until Blizz killed it.
Yep, I remember that boss mod.  Think that is as close as they have ever come to having a boss mod that could practically play the game for you.  Given how totally trivial it made most encounters I can totally see why blizzard locked it down pretty hard.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Wizgar on July 13, 2014, 03:32:33 AM
So what do you suggest they replace it with?

I'd design each raid initially as a raid-sized Scenario and make that the new LFR. No required roles, no lengthy queue. I'd even put in a battleground-style graveyard that would rez people mid-fight and let them just zerg shit down. Doing damage, healing, and succeeding at mechanics specific to the encounter would all increase your chance at loot, such that a player would only be hurting themselves if they spent 50% of the time dead or standing in the corner waiting to be carried.

Then I'd let some interns turn those resources into a "real raid" for the 1 out of every 10 players or whatever that even gives a shit about that sort of thing.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on July 13, 2014, 05:39:07 AM
I'm guessing that you never played GW2, or if you did that you never ran any of the dungeons?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ingmar on July 13, 2014, 04:52:32 PM
GW2's dungeons are bad, but the roleless dungeons (the "tactical" ones) work fine in SWTOR. It can be done, it's actually much easier in games like WoW where classes have a larger number of tools rather than GW2's very prescribed builds.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lantyssa on July 13, 2014, 09:24:54 PM
GW2 dungeons would be fine if shit didn't two-hit half the party.  I can do epic things out in the world, but in a dungeon I'm nothing but fodder.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Wizgar on July 13, 2014, 09:39:38 PM
Honestly it's all just pushing 12341234 and remembering not to stand in things, especially at the easymode random queue LFR/LFD level. Get rid of role dependance at that level and get my queue down from 30 minutes to 30 seconds. Let the cool kids in their "real" raids worry about finding tanks. I'm stuck in a loser guild because the GM is a friend of my wife, and I'm antisocial as hell in these games anyway. Just let me play.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on July 14, 2014, 08:18:32 AM
Part of the reason I didn't like doing LFR is because tanks still have to be the only ones who really know the fights, and if they don't they get blamed by all the others in the raid. You're still the defacto leaders, whereas a dps can show up knowing fuckall and be just fine.

If I was tanking, I wanted to do it with at least 4-5 other friends to even out the responsibility.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ironwood on July 14, 2014, 10:43:28 AM
Yeah.  And even if you're required to know it, you can usually pick it up or learn it without too much scathe.

Not so as the tank.



Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on July 14, 2014, 03:03:16 PM
That's one of the nice things about the tactical dungeons in SWTOR, I suppose, I can sign up as a tank and no one expects me to lead shit, because they're designed so you don't HAVE to have one (basically it's nice to have, but not required ... same with healers!). So I can work on howdoesthisclassworkagain on a tank I haven't played in three months without feeling bad.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ironwood on July 14, 2014, 04:38:50 PM
Yeah.  I was quite surprised at that in SWOTOR.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on July 14, 2014, 06:06:21 PM
SWTOR has actually improved the genre in a lot of ways, which is sort of shocking given how quickly it went F2P, and how quickly they dumped their entire selling point of the game.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Zetor on July 14, 2014, 11:54:28 PM
Aren't swtor tactical flashpoints basically WOW scenarios (3 random players together, no tank/healer req'd)? The normal scenarios are extremely easy, but the heroic scenarios are at least moderately challenging for the appropriate gear level. They may become more relevant if Blizz adds that level/gear-scaling 'timewalker' system they've been working on for a while -- anyone got any info on that, btw?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ingmar on July 15, 2014, 01:00:07 AM
They're regular group sized (4) and if you have decent gear you can duo them with 2 players/2 companions.

In general I give the credit for that particular feature to LotRO's skirmishes.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on July 15, 2014, 01:09:19 AM
The big thing is I wish like hell they would either convert the leveling dungeons to all be tactical or add more than just the one, because I am sick to fucking death of Kuat Driveyards.  :uhrr:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Zetor on July 15, 2014, 01:14:33 AM
They're regular group sized (4) and if you have decent gear you can duo them with 2 players/2 companions.

In general I give the credit for that particular feature to LotRO's skirmishes.
Oh yeah, I'd definitely give it to LOTRO as well; in fact, the skirmish implementation is a lot better than WOW scenarios with more variance in encounters, better difficulty options, and the entire soldier customization aspect.

All I'm saying is that role-less group content exists in WOW already (and there's quite a bit of it -- 15 right now I think, with 6 of them having heroic versions; these are just the 3-person ones, there are quite a few solo ones too), it's just that it's not really considered mainline content, more of something you steamroll once a day for the vp/jp bonus and maybe run a few times as a fresh 90 to gear up. BTW, I think it's very easy to solo some of the scenarios even with sub-500 ilevel (in theramore, the group usually splits to 3 to kill all 3 ship captains / crew at the same time, f'rex).

e: also, WOW has also been using the scenario tech to do a lot of single-player "story missions" instead of just using heavy phasing, the 5-6 SP-only scenarios on isle of thunder as well as the ones in the legendary questline are a good example. Those are much more similar to a SWTOR story quest mini-instance or a GW2 story instance than anything else, though. The Proving Grounds also use the scenario implementation.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on July 16, 2014, 12:40:58 PM
Anyone want to get mad at people getting mad at Blizzard?

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1550089-Mike-Morhaime-replies-to-open-letter-over-diversity-in-Blizzard-games

tl;dr: Mike Morhaime makes a (n admittedly PR-shaped) "Yes, diversity is important and we're making a concious effort at working on it" reply* and MMO-C forums...respond how you'd expect.


*Compare and contrast Rob Pardo's "Deal with it" post a while back for added hilarity.



Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Wizgar on July 16, 2014, 04:15:26 PM
Diversity? In a game where all humans are white, and everyone who sounds like they might not be is either a breakdancing cannibal troll or a puerile animal-based ethnic caricature?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on July 16, 2014, 04:17:41 PM
I fucking love the dudes who are like "THIS is the issue?!? After ALL THE OTHER WRONGS?!?" Yes, how could someone find the clueless white dudebro-rific vibe of Blizzard games more troubling than ... I don't know, their dumb decision to ground people for an entire expansion. My sparklepony taking flight trumps all!

I was starting to get worried when the first few complaints neglected to whine about social justice warriors, but by the end of the first page my fear had been proven unfounded.


edit: oh lol

Quote
He/she had me with the dull lore and the cliche story but lost me when he/she started to say minorities and women are under represented along with gay characters. I dont have a problem with either of these things being in the game, but i also think it shouldnt be injected into the game to make a group of special snowflakes happy, that probably dont even play the game.

Being a woman: SPECIAL SNOWFLAKE

I also super love the assumption still so pervasive amongst dudes unwilling to let girls in their treehouse. YOU DON'T PLAY ANYWAY, SHUT UP. You know, dude, if I didn't play games, I wouldn't give a shit about how so many pretend I don't exist.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on July 16, 2014, 04:28:14 PM
Did someone post something? I just saw a blank space after Wizgar's post.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on July 16, 2014, 04:30:58 PM
<sob>


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Hutch on July 16, 2014, 04:35:40 PM
I haven't played a human in a long time, but there's a pretty broad spectrum of colors that you can choose from, iirc.
As for a broad spectrum of genders, well, you can pick M or F as your body type and then roleplay the rest of it.



Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on July 16, 2014, 04:39:04 PM
Human gets super pale white guy and super tan white guy.  There's not even vaguely ethnic hairstyles which might let you roleplay hispanic. 


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Wizgar on July 16, 2014, 05:36:09 PM
You can set your skintone to brown in the character creator, but if you're a roleplayer then good luck explaining where the hell you came from.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Hutch on July 16, 2014, 06:24:23 PM
Meh. These challenges have been facing WoW players for ten years now. People quit for all kinds of reasons. One kid posts a wall of text saying "you suck, I quit" about Blizzard's shocking, insensitive lack of diversity and all of a sudden we've got a crisis.

No flying at the level cap, redesigning PvE classes to "balance" "pvp", and putting our expansion capitals in a ghetto PvP zone, are actual changes to the game. Changes that will affect their current subscribers. If I was in Morhaime's position, and I was paying any attention to complaints, I wouldn't worry about an "I quit" letter. I'd worry about how to keep my current subscribers around.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Typhon on July 16, 2014, 06:51:22 PM
Maybe when the shit is hitting the fan, and your development team members are all in fetal position under their desks, a flame-bait diversity post could be a Morhaime's best friend.

In other news... LOOK! A BUNNY!


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ingmar on July 16, 2014, 08:07:58 PM
I doubt it. His language was vague and half-assed and pissed off the pro-diversity side too.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on July 17, 2014, 09:18:36 AM
I thought the best part of it was Blizzard openly admitting they don't focus much on story. Then fans pointing out how shitty the story is.

You know, if the company understands their stories are second-class and the fans hate them, WHY THE FUCK IS METZEN STILL EMPLOYED?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on July 17, 2014, 09:49:43 AM
I thought the best part of it was Blizzard openly admitting they don't focus much on story. Then fans pointing out how shitty the story is.

You know, if the company understands their stories are second-class and the fans hate them, WHY THE FUCK IS METZEN STILL EMPLOYED?

Tenure.   :grin:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on July 17, 2014, 12:55:27 PM
if the company understands their stories are second-class and the fans hate them

(http://i.minus.com/iWxA672Tauvv3.jpg)


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on July 17, 2014, 01:07:29 PM
Hey, you want diversity? Hire a female writer as the lead story person instead of Metzen. I'm all for that. I'm for anything that gets him fired. He's a complete shithead who is terrible at his job.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on July 17, 2014, 03:16:03 PM
Jealousy is a terrible thing.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on July 17, 2014, 03:21:00 PM
Your trolls are getting weaker than the game's content lineup for this expac. Even you're running out of ways to defend this nonsense. That says it all.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on July 17, 2014, 03:52:01 PM
Your trolls are getting weaker than the game's content lineup for this expac.
Oh, you're not enjoying the beta?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Maven on July 17, 2014, 09:44:29 PM
I would be fascinated by a serious case study of Metzen's career that not only showed what he did right but what his critical flaws are instead of treating him like a big joke. There's a lot of misinformation floating out there -- but one thing I believe true is that Metzen's career is over if he ever decided to leave Blizzard, and that's *never* going to happen unless he retires.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Maven on July 17, 2014, 10:25:37 PM
I should have read the letters before commenting.

Is this part of the greater sensitivity to social issues / equality being reported in Millenials who would predominantly play games like this? The central argument starcunning appears to make is that Blizzard ought to grow up from its comic book origins and the traditional portrayals found within that domain. Would this be accurate?

I could write a lot about what starcunning wrote and point out the flaws in the argument. Would it be a financial incentive for Blizzard to start creating products that were more about people being able to create a version of themselves in a fantasy space or a major character to identify with that was fairer to the diverse amount of people represented out there? Absolutely.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on July 18, 2014, 12:40:58 AM
I would be fascinated by a serious case study of Metzen's career that not only showed what he did right but what his critical flaws are instead of treating him like a big joke. There's a lot of misinformation floating out there -- but one thing I believe true is that Metzen's career is over if he ever decided to leave Blizzard, and that's *never* going to happen unless he retires.

What did he do right? I am genuinely curious.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on July 18, 2014, 02:52:36 AM
WoD's legendary.

(http://i.imgur.com/IEZd7Hf.png)

 :grin: :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on July 18, 2014, 04:47:58 AM
I would be fascinated by a serious case study of Metzen's career that not only showed what he did right but what his critical flaws are instead of treating him like a big joke. There's a lot of misinformation floating out there -- but one thing I believe true is that Metzen's career is over if he ever decided to leave Blizzard, and that's *never* going to happen unless he retires.

What did he do right? I am genuinely curious.
Came up with about 50% of the artwork and 100% of the storyline for Warcraft 1 on the spot after Games Workshop (allegedly) backed out. So not like it saved the company,or anything.  :grin:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Hutch on July 18, 2014, 07:46:42 AM
I should have read the letters before commenting.

Is this part of the greater sensitivity to social issues / equality being reported in Millenials who would predominantly play games like this? The central argument starcunning appears to make is that Blizzard ought to grow up from its comic book origins and the traditional portrayals found within that domain. Would this be accurate?

I could write a lot about what starcunning wrote and point out the flaws in the argument. Would it be a financial incentive for Blizzard to start creating products that were more about people being able to create a version of themselves in a fantasy space or a major character to identify with that was fairer to the diverse amount of people represented out there? Absolutely.

Or, Blizzard could sink a bunch of resources into teaching people to use their imaginations. (If that sentence sounds like an absurd idea, that's because it is.)

If you can't feel immersion in a game unless your avatar looks just like you, you're not very good at roleplaying.

In any case, WoW isn't the place for it, being as only one out of the eleven player races has a prayer of looking like a human. Well, two, if you count the werewolves.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Hutch on July 18, 2014, 07:47:52 AM
I thought the best part of it was Blizzard openly admitting they don't focus much on story. Then fans pointing out how shitty the story is.

You know, if the company understands their stories are second-class and the fans hate them, WHY THE FUCK IS METZEN STILL EMPLOYED?

The best part is Blizzard saying that they don't focus much on story, but using story as the excuse for moving the beta capitals.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on July 18, 2014, 08:14:31 AM
WoD's legendary.

(http://i.imgur.com/IEZd7Hf.png)

 :grin: :why_so_serious:

The str/spr combo got me. 


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on July 18, 2014, 11:13:40 AM
Came up with about 50% of the artwork and 100% of the storyline for Warcraft 1 on the spot after Games Workshop (allegedly) backed out. So not like it saved the company,or anything.  :grin:

You mean the game they blatantly ripped off the artwork and lore from Warhammer? Good call. Bet that took some real talent to basically copy somebody just enough not to invoke a lawsuit.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on July 18, 2014, 11:56:36 AM
Out of interest, if Metzen quit who would be the next Blizzard employee you'd be yelling incoherently at?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ingmar on July 18, 2014, 12:48:17 PM
See, this is why you're hard to take seriously even when you're not trolling. Metzen writes terrible characters, and it has been obvious to just about everyone for a long time. Look at what happened to the story stuff in Diablo once he got his hands on it, to just name one enormous turd of an example. If you can't tell the difference between the somewhat unreasonable criticism of Ghostcrawler and the pretty much entirely deserved criticism of Metzen, you're not exercising your critical thinking skills enough.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on July 18, 2014, 02:27:42 PM
Ingmar makes a good point, I didn't like GC, but it wasn't for as many obvious reasons as Metzen. GC was a mouthpiece who I thought was terrible, he was one of the guys inside who I believe supported the hardcore tuning of the game even if he didn't directly control it, and he was always a lightning rod for class changes.

Metzen on the other hand has produced laughable garbage for years. The last SC expansion story was ridiculed up and down. The D3 story is so horrendous legions of users were begging for a non-story play function so they could skip even the skippable parts. The WoW stuff... I mean maybe you like fighting the worst created villian ever in a new xpac? Green Jesus can help.

The real nail in the coffin in my mind is Titan. That was Blizzard's first real shot at creating something from scratch, a brand new lore-IP, in over a decade. And they've managed to completely fuck that up. I don't even believe it's salvagable, and that's why heads had to roll. They can't create anymore with this current group. It's gotten to the point where they need a whole-sale changeover of direction, and for somebody to come in and create brand new IPs while throwing the old chucklefucks out on their asses.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Maven on July 18, 2014, 03:18:48 PM
Maybe Blizzard doesn't give a crap about the U.S. market, and their priorities are doing the token minimal effort in the States while they make franchises that the entire rest of the world doesn't take as seriously and which provides the primary fuel for the E-sports scene. Kinda like Transformers and China.

No, I've seen how Metzen behaves. I don't think that man is an international and culturally-sensitive thinker. He might have changed since I last saw him.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on July 18, 2014, 03:45:14 PM
Based on the bro-dude attitude on full display at every Blizzcon, no. No he hasn't.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ingmar on July 18, 2014, 03:57:32 PM
The real nail in the coffin in my mind is Titan. That was Blizzard's first real shot at creating something from scratch, a brand new lore-IP, in over a decade. And they've managed to completely fuck that up. I don't even believe it's salvagable, and that's why heads had to roll. They can't create anymore with this current group. It's gotten to the point where they need a whole-sale changeover of direction, and for somebody to come in and create brand new IPs while throwing the old chucklefucks out on their asses.

Given what they've let him publish I can't imagine that Titan was held back because of anything Metzen-related. I don't really see Titan as especially relevant, anymore than SC: Ghost or other projects they've killed that we never heard a name for.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on July 18, 2014, 04:15:05 PM
Came up with about 50% of the artwork and 100% of the storyline for Warcraft 1 on the spot after Games Workshop (allegedly) backed out. So not like it saved the company,or anything.  :grin:

You mean the game they blatantly ripped off the artwork and lore from Warhammer? Good call. Bet that took some real talent to basically copy somebody just enough not to invoke a lawsuit.

You stole my response. THIEF. THIEF BAGGINS.

And frankly, the storyline just ... isn't ... good? Like it was good enough then, obviously, but ... man, it's just not good. Or more specifically, it doesn't age well. I was 16 when it came out (but not into RTS games, generally, so I didn't play it). I'm sure I would've thought the story was fine then. I think the thing that weirds me out about Metzen is that he hasn't really ... grown at all. That's why I call him a manchild. He's still writing shit a 17 year old asshat would write/think was totally metal.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Hawkbit on July 18, 2014, 04:31:42 PM
Fucking ouch.  On one hand, like me, person played since launch and has likely grown out of the game.  On the other hand, how do they market a 10yr old game to new blood?  They don't; they try to make a game for the launch folks. 

http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/07/18/wows-warlords-of-draenor-beta-a-disappointing-start/


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Maven on July 18, 2014, 04:46:01 PM
Metzen's safely ensconced inside the financial and egotistical bubble of his own fanboy success.

Curiously, I went to look for any type of formal education or background information that was available, and it seems to me he was this hardcore geek with some OK artistic talent that struck solid gold with his connections and just never progressed from that. People's love of WarCraft and the other iconic output of the company translated in a direct fascination with him and his creative mind, which wouldn't go to someone's head at all, no sir.

Contrast with, say, Morhaime, who had already received extensive education (Bachelor's from UCLA, along with friends like Allen Adham and Frank Pearce) which only grew from there to include continuing education in running a business at the corporate / executive level in order to keep up with his role as President.

What would... COULD... Metzen do? Read more comic books?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Father mike on July 18, 2014, 04:58:15 PM
I bought the collectors edition of Wings of Liberty, and one of the goodies was a 'making of' video that had interviews with the devs and creative types.  It was astonishing.  I really thought it was some sort of super-meta joke about immature, poorly-socialized man-children -- but it never let up.  It was painful to watch.  It was obvious that everyone was really passionate about what they were doing, and that in their minds they were creating the coolest thing possible.  But by the end it really felt like one was watching the greasy kid in algebra class trying to show some disinterested girls his heavy metal sketches.

It really made me wonder why Activision hasn't stepped in even more in an even more intrusive manner and installed some adults.  Or at least hall monitors.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Mithas on July 18, 2014, 06:52:43 PM
Fucking ouch.  On one hand, like me, person played since launch and has likely grown out of the game.  On the other hand, how do they market a 10yr old game to new blood?  They don't; they try to make a game for the launch folks. 

http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/07/18/wows-warlords-of-draenor-beta-a-disappointing-start/

They blew it by having Lich King so early. That's what everyone wanted to see. They wrapped up everything from Warcraft III and now everything after that feels forced because most of it is new territory. They aren't good at new territory.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Setanta on July 18, 2014, 09:30:30 PM
Illidan and Arthus - they have to be my favorite bosses in the game oin terms of story-telling, the lore was so rich around them that they could have drawn WC3 out over at least 2 expansions. It's probably rose coloured glasses but I found Ulduar/Frozen Throne to be the highlight of the entire game lore-wise. I just felt like I was doing something and the interaction with the NPCs made me feel like I was part of a bigger story. Even Naxx2 felt good. I never really felt that way again, not in Cata and certainly not in pandaville.

I find it kind of sad that the only time I really loved the game was the core and first 2 expansions that were really just WC3 extensions. After that, the story-telling talent just fell apart.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Wizgar on July 19, 2014, 04:26:33 AM
It really made me wonder why Activision hasn't stepped in even more in an even more intrusive manner and installed some adults.  Or at least hall monitors.

"I know we're down a billion dollars for the year, but those guys making our video games about space marines and death knights were DORKS! It was time to be intrusive and install some adults!" said the CEO of Activision, five seconds before he was physically dismembered and his remains pissed on by his board.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Hutch on July 19, 2014, 09:47:44 AM
Aaaaaaand I'm spent.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on July 19, 2014, 10:41:42 AM
Given what they've let him publish I can't imagine that Titan was held back because of anything Metzen-related. I don't really see Titan as especially relevant, anymore than SC: Ghost or other projects they've killed that we never heard a name for.

The Metzen part is just that he would have been in charge of the overall story and IP. Not that he held it up. It would have been terrible.

As to the second part, I'm sort of floored that you don't believe Titan was important to Blizzard. For a long time it's been purported as that thing that people will move on to after WoW. I always suspected they needed a sucessor as WoW got stagnant and ridiculously old. Well, we're basically there now. Titan was "supposed" to release by 2015 if you believe estimates and talking points. It probably wouldn't, but still it sounds like they've shuffled it off. Now we have a slacking WoW for another 5 years? That's a pretty big move in my mind.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Maven on July 19, 2014, 01:02:02 PM
If Blizzard had launched Titan, we wouldn't be talking about this game or Blizzard in the same tones we are now. WoW would have gracefully moseyed off into the sunset instead of carrying the entire future of the company on its shoulders, gasping and wheezing towards the grave.

So what else do they got? Hearthstone, a niche title, and Heroes of the Storm which, on paper, would have the opportunity to bring in revenue similar to the massive success of League of Legends, but based on initial feedback it doesn't appear it'll do more than plug holes in Blizzard's revenue that the loss of subscriber numbers from WoW has created.

Are we past the era of mega-releases? I'm thinking Half-Life 3, Blizzard's next big project, other big hits that change the course of things. Not that I dislike the new independent movement with titles that have more meaning to them, but I miss it when you'd have this game everyone would drop and play and people would point to as major milestones.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Malakili on July 19, 2014, 09:37:23 PM
Not that I dislike the new independent movement with titles that have more meaning to them, but I miss it when you'd have this game everyone would drop and play and people would point to as major milestones.

We have the first half of that equation but not the last half.  Everyone plays the new thing, goes crazy, gets 80k viewers on Twitch for 48 hours, then it falls off the planet never to be heard from again.  Gaming used to be defined by those few releases a year that everyone was looking forward to.  Now it's defined by the constant turnover of hype trains, launch frenzies, and essential disposability of games. 


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on July 20, 2014, 12:07:19 AM
Are we past the era of mega-releases? I'm thinking Half-Life 3, Blizzard's next big project, other big hits that change the course of things. Not that I dislike the new independent movement with titles that have more meaning to them, but I miss it when you'd have this game everyone would drop and play and people would point to as major milestones.

I am charmed you think HL3 is going to come out. I guess Duke Nukem Forever came out eventually ... anything is possible!

I'm not sure I 100% understand what you mean by mega-releases. What are some games past you consider such? I've been gaming pretty much my entire life, but I bet I haven't played more than a handful of them anyway, so maybe I have no good perspective on that anyway. My type of games (city builders, various tycoon and sims games, RPG-nonsense) don't usually get the same sort of attention as, say, GTA5 does.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Wizgar on July 20, 2014, 04:01:40 AM
God WoW is now as old as EQ1 was when WotLK was out.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Maven on July 20, 2014, 11:54:55 AM
- Doom
- Quake
- StarCraft
- Diablo
- Final Fantasy 7
- Metal Gear Solid
- Ultima Online / Everquest / WoW
- Half-Life / 2
- Hardware launches like the Dreamcast
- Morrowind / Obsidian
Edit: - Grand Theft Auto 3.

Half-Life 3 will come out sometime in my life-time. That gives us at least 40 years.

I think that short-list has one pattern in common -- major advances in technology coupled with a game design / world that hadn't been implemented / experienced before and a lack of competition. Also, those were games my younger self got extremely excited about, so take that into account. Modern equivalents of that list would be Mass Effect, Assassin's Creed 2 for their impact as brands.

Lately the only game I got excited about is Guild Wars 2, though a much less significant spike compared to those others due to industry saturation and my own burn-out. I didn't even get worked up over Skyrim.

Another example would be Steam, but that's significant for different reasons.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on July 20, 2014, 12:00:52 PM
Nostalgia is a hell of a drug.


Also: Mithas - your post about how Blizzard aren't good at being creative and Warcraft was ruined forever when they killed off the WC3 characters...remind me: How many of those particular characters were newly introduced in WC3?  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on July 20, 2014, 12:01:21 PM
I'm legitmately excited for Mount and Blade 2. That's about the only one I can think of off the top of my head.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Malakili on July 20, 2014, 12:41:49 PM

I think that short-list has one pattern in common -- major advances in technology coupled with a game design / world that hadn't been implemented / experienced before and a lack of competition.

id tried to do this with Rage a few years back and it ended up being terrible.  Hell Quake 3 is probably still their most popular game.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on July 20, 2014, 04:46:57 PM
- Doom
- Quake
- StarCraft
- Diablo
- Final Fantasy 7
- Metal Gear Solid
- Ultima Online / Everquest / WoW
- Half-Life / 2
- Hardware launches like the Dreamcast
- Morrowind / Obsidian
Edit: - Grand Theft Auto 3.

Yeah, see, I played one (1) of those games (and it was WoW) (I did play Diablo 2, though!). None of them had any particular impact on me or my gaming life in the way I think you're saying they should've. I've been a mainly PC gamer my whole life (I've had consoles, obviously, but they were never my "main" gaming machine), so shit like the Dreamcast mostly passed me by as feeling like a milestone. So I guess I'm lucky, I don't have a "mega-release" era to miss.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Maven on July 20, 2014, 06:54:06 PM
As Simond pointed out, I think my younger self was more susceptible to marketing hype that I now see through and being more fascinated with my toys than I could ever be now. As objectively as I can make it, those titles were significant, and I'm sure there are many more you can point out with various supporting statements.

The releases probably still happen for younger people still caught up in the hype cycle because that's all the information they get. They're on their own journey.

But, yeah, WoW. Four years of my life was spent obsessed with that game, and I don't have much to show for it aside for a fine appreciation of the Night Elf & Troll physiques.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Selby on July 20, 2014, 07:32:40 PM
But, yeah, WoW. Four years of my life was spent obsessed with that game, and I don't have much to show for it aside for a fine appreciation of the Night Elf & Troll physiques.
I played from release until early in January this year.  That was almost 9.5 years of my life.  Playing a game.  Say as much as I want or bitch as much as I want, I'm pretty sure WoW was the best investment for fun and time I've had my entire life so far.

Funny how that works out.

I wouldn't necessarily say that nostalgia on any of those games really is the driving factor in them being "good" or "games people talked about" when they were new.  There was a LOT of other stuff that came out when those games were coming out and a good chunk was complete garbage (just like today!).  A smaller selection were REALLY good as well, just not as popular depending on the genre you were interested in.  Although in fairness, I can't think of a single game that has come out recently that people actually like and talk about except maybe Grand Theft Auto & whatnot.  Part of that is probably just because I'm an old fogey who doesn't like what the younger kids are playing because it probably involves sex and drugs and getting on my lawn...


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Maven on July 20, 2014, 08:26:47 PM
I'm sure there's some messed up dissonance situation happening in my head where any entertainment or fun I had with video games / other pursuits had consequences that got spun into "lost / wasted time" towards other more meaningful, obscured objectives in my life.

Life's now about my time paying dividends (going to college, getting that degree & job). At least, that's the principle on paper.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rendakor on July 20, 2014, 10:56:40 PM
I'm sure there's some messed up dissonance situation happening in my head where any entertainment or fun I had with video games / other pursuits had consequences that got spun into "lost / wasted time" towards other more meaningful, obscured objectives in my life.

Life's now about my time paying dividends (going to college, getting that degree & job). At least, that's the principle on paper.
This is your issue right here. Games aren't getting worse*, you're (we're all) just getting older. GTAV and Last of Us were both kind of a big deal last year; also SMTIV is one of the greatest games I've ever played. A lot of games coming out are shit, but I think that's always been the case and maybe it's a bit more obvious now. Hype around AAA games is at an all time high, so when one of them disappoints (Watch Dogs for example) it's kind of a big deal; we also get reviews on or before launch day now, instead of waiting on a magazine that would come out weeks later. The other reason games might look worse to you is that AAA games are all kinda converging on some weird Call of Duty singularity where in 2030 every AAA title will be a dudebro shooter; if you're not a fan of console FPS. Aside from that, there is fun to be had, if fun is what you're interested in.

As far as the lack of major releases, they still happen it's just that the bar's been raised. Every year for at least the past 5 a game has beaten the previous best selling game of all time (COD MW2 & 3, BO 1&2, and GTAV). The fact that COD sells so many units causes other studios to set unrealistic expectations and you get odd scenarios like the Dead Space 3 thing. Console launches aren't any different: they're a great christmas gift for kids, but savvy gamers know that the first year of launch is kind of shit due to the lack of software available.

*MMOs are in fact getting worse, or at least not getting better. Every WoW expansion since LK has made the game less appealing to me, and of the recent games only FFXIV has scratched the itch.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Setanta on July 21, 2014, 03:18:18 AM
Maven - no Unreal/Na Pali/Unreal Tournament?

I like the early part of your list but would also add Homeworld/Cataclysm to it along with Giant: Citizen Kabutu

Looking at my games drive (just under 2TB) I find gems like Alice, AvP 1&2, Battlezone 2, Black and White/2, Diablo/2, Drakan, lots of Doom (whole series), lots of Duke Nukem, Dungeon Keeper 2, Freeelancer and Freespace 2, Grim Fandango, Ground Control/2, Halo, Hexen/Heretic/Heretic2, Hexen 2, Jedi Outcast, Max Payne, NOLF/2, ONi, Return to Castle Wolfenstein, Rune, Shogo, Tribes series, Vampire series, Tron 2.0, Impossible creatures, dawn of war series Trackmania series and Total Annihilation plus everything made by Blizzard and so on.

I loved waiting for those releases (nop bloody kickstarter either) and add those to all my Valve games plus a plethora of uninstalled games, I couldn't wait for those either.

I think you're right though, it has to do with the engines - Quake, Source, Lithtech, Unreal and Relic's RTS engine. But the games themselves were important.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Kail on July 21, 2014, 03:57:13 AM
The term's a bit nebulous, but to me there's a difference between a game that's good or that some people enjoy and a game that's a major gaming milestone.  Something like Unreal or Homeworld is fine, but it didn't reshape the market.  Something like Street Fighter 2 comes out, though, and suddenly we're drowning in fighting games.  Sonic the Hedgehog comes out and suddenly the shelves are full of cartoon ANIMALS WITH ATTITUDE starring in their own 2D side scrolling platformers.

Blizzard used to consistently be like this: Warcraft dropped and suddenly everyone was making RTSes.  Diablo dropped and suddenly everyone was making action RPGs.  WoW dropped and the entire MMORPG genre orbited it for years.

But now, not so much.  Starcraft 2 comes out, and it's kind of okay, but it's not like we're seeing a revival of the RTS boom that the original inspired.  Diablo 3 comes out and six months later people mostly don't care.  The games are fun, they're functional, but they're not reshaping the gaming industry the way Blizzard of old used to.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Malakili on July 21, 2014, 10:24:19 AM
The term's a bit nebulous, but to me there's a difference between a game that's good or that some people enjoy and a game that's a major gaming milestone.  Something like Unreal or Homeworld is fine, but it didn't reshape the market.  Something like Street Fighter 2 comes out, though, and suddenly we're drowning in fighting games.  Sonic the Hedgehog comes out and suddenly the shelves are full of cartoon ANIMALS WITH ATTITUDE starring in their own 2D side scrolling platformers.

Blizzard used to consistently be like this: Warcraft dropped and suddenly everyone was making RTSes.  Diablo dropped and suddenly everyone was making action RPGs.  WoW dropped and the entire MMORPG genre orbited it for years.

But now, not so much.  Starcraft 2 comes out, and it's kind of okay, but it's not like we're seeing a revival of the RTS boom that the original inspired.  Diablo 3 comes out and six months later people mostly don't care.  The games are fun, they're functional, but they're not reshaping the gaming industry the way Blizzard of old used to.

I'd say Minecraft is a recent example of that. 


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on July 21, 2014, 04:25:12 PM
Meanwhile, back in the beta: http://wod.wowhead.com/quest=35167

Oh.
Oh no. (http://i.imgur.com/7XT5vHg.png)


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ingmar on July 21, 2014, 04:26:40 PM
I saw the title and thought it was going to be fucking Corki again.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on July 21, 2014, 04:27:45 PM
Corki wouldn't be alive in this time period.  Maybe his dad will get lost.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ingmar on July 21, 2014, 04:28:54 PM
If we can walk through a time portal, so can he!


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on July 21, 2014, 04:47:19 PM
Meanwhile, back in the beta: http://wod.wowhead.com/quest=35167

Oh.
Oh no. (http://i.imgur.com/7XT5vHg.png)

Aw, poor guy.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Tannhauser on July 21, 2014, 05:15:10 PM
Fucking Mankirk, did you ever think they don't WANT you to find them?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on July 21, 2014, 05:26:29 PM
They are gonna milk nostalgia so hard that garrosh is gonna shoot dry powder from his teats.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Malakili on July 21, 2014, 05:30:39 PM
Meanwhile, back in the beta: http://wod.wowhead.com/quest=35167

Oh.
Oh no. (http://i.imgur.com/7XT5vHg.png)


 :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Maven on July 22, 2014, 01:57:05 AM
Am I the only one peeved that an Orc said "kinda" or is acting like a bashful teen in medieval high as fuck fantasy?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on July 22, 2014, 04:12:59 AM
Pretty sure that ship sailed roughly 10 years ago, buddy.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on July 22, 2014, 07:38:45 AM
Am I the only one peeved that an Orc said "kinda" or is acting like a bashful teen in medieval high as fuck fantasy?

If you think that's bad, don't bother reading any of the quest text while leveling in Azeroth 1-60. The Cats revamp was the mass-start of that BS.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on July 22, 2014, 08:04:44 AM
I....I hope Thrall senpai will notice me......

(http://i61.tinypic.com/akj0oz.jpg)


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: tmp on July 23, 2014, 11:12:12 AM
Am I the only one peeved that an Orc said "kinda" or is acting like a bashful teen in medieval high as fuck fantasy?
Try "pseudo-medieval, absolutely overloaded with pointless pop culture references fantasy" and suddenly it seems to fit right there.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Wizgar on July 23, 2014, 04:01:58 PM
Am I the only one peeved that an Orc said "kinda" or is acting like a bashful teen in medieval high as fuck fantasy?

When it comes to Blizzard lore, this describes the state in which it's written as well as the state in which it's best consumed. I just can't imagine giving a shit about it.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Maven on July 23, 2014, 08:10:45 PM
I used to. God help me, I used to.  :uhrr:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on July 24, 2014, 09:55:10 AM
It's becoming pretty pointless to even shit on the lore at this point. It's gone from subjectively bad to mostly accepted as bad. Now it's been objectively defined by the Blizzard staff as not that important. The argument is dead.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on July 24, 2014, 12:32:06 PM
Does that mean you'll stop bitching about it?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on July 24, 2014, 12:37:18 PM
Does that mean you'll stop bitching about it?

Does that mean you'll stop being a trolly fanboi?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Tannhauser on July 24, 2014, 04:19:43 PM
I used to. God help me, I used to.  :uhrr:

Same.  Though I was way more into the Eastern Kingdom lore then the hippy, happy bull-men of Kalimdor and the purple elfs.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ginaz on July 24, 2014, 07:32:47 PM
I got a beta key today.  I'll check and see if things are as bad I've heard.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on July 24, 2014, 10:01:26 PM
I got a beta key today.  I'll check and see if things are as bad I've heard.

I'm interested to see what you think.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rokal on July 25, 2014, 01:57:22 PM
Even the bloggers who are usually relentless cheerleaders for the game have seemed pretty negative about the WoD beta. It's not even usually related to the WoD controversies that this thread has covered: flying, dungeon difficulty, ability pruning, the stat revamp, etc.

The questing content just seems to be falling flat for most testers. Garrisons didn't turn out the way most people wanted and are very limited compared to what was originally outlined. The storyline seems to be as dumb as the initial reveal implied.

This is pretty in-line with the sort of posting I've been seeing about the beta:

http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/07/21/wows-warlords-of-draenor-beta-the-disappointment-of-garrisons/


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on July 25, 2014, 02:13:37 PM
That's a pretty bleak review of garrisons.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: dd0029 on July 25, 2014, 02:34:58 PM
It is bleak and sounds like of lame, but I don't recall garrisons ever being billled as what that guy wanted. I don't recall anything about decorating and setting up something "your own". That description sounds pretty close to what I expected when I first heard about garrisons.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on July 25, 2014, 02:50:09 PM
Upcoming new WOD features:

New races? ....nope.
New classes? ....nope.
Slightly different quest hub?  Check!


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rokal on July 25, 2014, 03:12:36 PM
It is bleak and sounds like of lame, but I don't recall garrisons ever being billled as what that guy wanted. I don't recall anything about decorating and setting up something "your own". That description sounds pretty close to what I expected when I first heard about garrisons.

Original announcement at Blizzcon was that Garrisons were the "WoW version of housing". If you compare that against the final product as outlined in the Massively post, it doesn't really resemble any sort of housing system. You can't place your Garrison in a choice of zones anymore: it's one spot in one zone, one very boilerplate cosmetic set of buildings (human or orc), and your choice of two functional buildings per plot which boil down to which extra ability you want to have while questing in a new zone.

I think if you compare the current version to Blizzard's own break-down of Garrisons from 2013 (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/11502044/Warlords_of_Draenor_Take_Charge_of_Your_Garrison-11_8_2013), you'll see that most of the "personalized" or (imo) interesting parts of the system have been cut out or stripped down. What's left is the Pandaria farm system linked into WoW's normal questing.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: dd0029 on July 25, 2014, 03:27:14 PM
I think if you compare the current version to Blizzard's own break-down of Garrisons from 2013 (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/11502044/Warlords_of_Draenor_Take_Charge_of_Your_Garrison-11_8_2013), you'll see that most of the "personalized" or (imo) interesting parts of the system have been cut out or stripped down. What's left is the Pandaria farm system linked into WoW's normal questing.

I'm not seeing anything in that Blizzard promo to suggest anything like what that guy's complaining about missing. As a matter of fact, that sounds like it's being delivered as advertised.

About the only thing that sounds like it's not there from the promo is that the Massively guy seems to suggest that recruited followers don't show up in your garrison.

In particular, that promo says nothing about decorating other than placing buildings and choosing a "spec" for the building which changes the decor.

This is all they have to say about decor.

Quote from: Blizzard ad promo
Garrisons are visually distinct depending on whether you’re a Horde or Alliance player, and you’ll be able to place your Garrison in one of several zones on Draenor. You’ll also specify your Garrison’s layout (the physical location of buildings within your Garrison’s walls), and select the buildings you’d like to include. Choosing to “spec” your buildings (more on that below) will also change cosmetic aspects of those buildings, like furniture types and decorations, in addition to imparting different gameplay effects.

Everything mentioned there seems to be in from the Massively post. Nothing in there about decorating on your own.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Wizgar on July 25, 2014, 03:28:47 PM
But but but, you'll get to see and interact with epic characters like... uh... er... I haven't played the first two WC games in over a fucking decade so how should I know who the fuck any of these guys are? Who cares? The plot to this xpack alone should have told you that they're completely creatively bankrupt. Someone needs to tell Metzen that no, we're not super excited about getting to see some guy who was a 16 pixel high sprite during the Clinton years.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rokal on July 25, 2014, 03:36:12 PM
I'm not seeing anything in that Blizzard promo to suggest anything like what that guy's complaining about missing. As a matter of fact, that sounds like it's being delivered as advertised.

About the only thing that sounds like it's not there from the promo is that the Massively guy seems to suggest that recruited followers don't show up in your garrison.

In particular, that promo says nothing about decorating other than placing buildings and choosing a "spec" for the building which changes the decor.

This is all they have to say about decor.

Quote from: Blizzard ad promo
Garrisons are visually distinct depending on whether you’re a Horde or Alliance player, and you’ll be able to place your Garrison in one of several zones on Draenor. You’ll also specify your Garrison’s layout (the physical location of buildings within your Garrison’s walls), and select the buildings you’d like to include. Choosing to “spec” your buildings (more on that below) will also change cosmetic aspects of those buildings, like furniture types and decorations, in addition to imparting different gameplay effects.

Everything mentioned there seems to be in from the Massively post. Nothing in there about decorating on your own.

I believe the "spec your buildings" stuff has been cut out. The ability to place your garrison in your favorite zone is gone. The only choices you have for the functional (large plot) buildings are between 2 in each plot, and their only impact is on which extra ability you get to use while in the zone.

In broad strokes, they are still delivering on most of what they promised (well, aside from zone choice) but all the personalized touches they mentioned have been stripped out. This isn't "your personal fort", this is Human Fort A or B (or Orc Fort A or B, if you're horde).

I'm not playing/interested in the beta, so maybe there are more customizable touches I'm missing, but that isn't the impression I get from people who are in the beta. You will have very, very few choices on how to customize your garrison and your garrison is not going to look much different from anyone else's on your faction. That's pretty disappointing for what was one of the only new features in the expansion.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on July 25, 2014, 03:41:17 PM
I still find it weird apparently no one at Blizzard believes, after all this time, that players really do like customization for the sake of customization and that it really does give people a sense of ownership. And that people have been asking for housing because they like customizing shit.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: tazelbain on July 25, 2014, 03:43:47 PM
Bleat little lambies you are being shorn.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Malakili on July 25, 2014, 03:47:52 PM
I still find it weird apparently no one at Blizzard believes, after all this time, that players really do like customization for the sake of customization and that it really does give people a sense of ownership. And that people have been asking for housing because they like customizing shit.

Especially given the success of something like DOTA 2 that, while a totally different genre, has proven that a game can rake in loads of cash essentially by ONLY asking people to pay to customize. 


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on July 25, 2014, 04:04:40 PM
I still find it weird apparently no one at Blizzard believes, after all this time, that players really do like customization for the sake of customization and that it really does give people a sense of ownership. And that people have been asking for housing because they like customizing shit.

Customization is for womenz. Blizzard knows real brodudes don't play dressup.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on July 25, 2014, 04:19:47 PM
Ha, that probably really is at least some of the reasoning.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on July 25, 2014, 04:25:13 PM

About the only thing that sounds like it's not there from the promo is that the Massively guy seems to suggest that recruited followers don't show up in your garrison.
Beta spoiler: Yes they do.

That article is #2 of 3. #1 of 3 was spent complaining that the linear tutorial for L90s is both linear and a tutorial. It's either click-bait or Paelos is writing for Massively now.  :grin:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ingmar on July 25, 2014, 04:28:27 PM
The last thing Massively wants is for Draenor to fail, it would hurt their business too. So I don't think there's a lot of strategic incentive for them to make stuff up for clickbait.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Fabricated on July 26, 2014, 04:40:03 PM
I guess the plot stuff is coming out and apparently at the end of the leveling content you fight Garrosh, fakewin, he stuns you, then Thrall shows up and saves you by challenging him to an honor duel in which he ends up killing Garrosh. Also I guess they might actually have characters start remembering you and giving you more than the time of day since apparently you start being recognized as a major lore character instead of "that guy".

Well instead of that guy, everyone just calls you "Commander <foo>" now. Has to be a Wrex joke in there somewhere.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Nevermore on July 26, 2014, 04:49:06 PM
Not major enough to actually win something on your own though, I guess.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rendakor on July 26, 2014, 05:02:00 PM
Only Green Jesus can do important things.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on July 26, 2014, 11:10:16 PM
Why, why can't Thrall jog up after you win and go, "Holy shit, nice job" instead? Why?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Tannhauser on July 27, 2014, 05:55:55 AM
I call it the 'Elminster Factor'.  That's when 'celebrity' NPC's are more important than PC's in a RPG setting. 


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lantyssa on July 27, 2014, 08:57:56 AM
Why, why can't Thrall jog up after you win and go, "Holy shit, nice job" instead? Why?
Metzen-sue.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on July 27, 2014, 12:52:12 PM
I guess it just strikes me as weird because it would be so easy to not constantly undermine your supposed heroism at every supposedly-big lore moment?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Maven on July 27, 2014, 02:39:53 PM
That gives the player agency in the overall lore. When history looks back on those moments for future product developments, the players don't exist.

Onyxia's first defeat was attributed to comic book characters. I recall at least one or two instances where major lore characters have recognized the players' contribution, but it doesn't really have as much impact. Far more vivid in memory is the lore characters as the responsible parties, in some cases sole responsibility.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on July 27, 2014, 04:04:11 PM
Giving the "real" kill to a lore character in a stupid comic is less annoying, because who gives a shit about the comics. But it gets pretty ridiculous for the game to pull kills out from under their players again and again. It's the way they frame it, mostly. It doesn't feel very heroic or like a victory when you have NPCs elbowing into the scene to get the "real" win. I didn't like when it happened with the Lich King, and I doubt it's gotten any better feeling in any of the instances it occurs after that.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on July 27, 2014, 04:11:01 PM
Agreed. If the lore NPC is fighting alongside and it goes down in lore that "Thrall and a group if heroes" did something it's more palatable.  Like the portal of time raids.  However when you're constantly rendered useless for another scripted scene to play out then it gets irritating.  Worse still when they also release statements that "we don't care about lore". 

Well then assholes. What's up with the need to only let your lore characters do things. 


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on July 27, 2014, 04:41:14 PM


Well then assholes. What's up with the need to only let your lore characters do things. 

(http://cdn5.movieclips.com/mgm/s/spaceballs-1987/0455974_1281_MC_Tx360.jpg)


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Maven on July 27, 2014, 07:34:22 PM
Nailed it.

Warcraft cutscenes can't happen with player agency. Cutscenes are used to create the 'official record' for the lore and reference for future products. This situation is a result of corporate, not artistic goals (and if it were artistic, you'd be 'someone', not an individual without identity), as is their lack of priority on the lore. That's NOT the same thing as 'we don't care', but a corporate artist / collective designer's concern is to do the best they can do for their particular area, and they prioritize mechanic design skills, not writing, for those roles.

There are a lot of important forces at work, mainly to do with the brand or the business, that has lore take a back seat. Sucks.

Besides, it is crap appealing to a very young audience hooked on comics and similar media, which has a lot to do with the nature of the beast, Metzen and Blizzard's emphasis on style over narrative substance aside. IMO you can't tell a good story in an MMO unless:

- It's a personal one customized to that player.
- An illusion is given that the players' version of the world is the only one that exists. Everything revolves around the player.
- Most importantly and where even Guild Wars 2 fails, is that the story is *about something* besides fighting a world-threatening presence with you and your buds.
-- And no, Warcraft, "about something" doesn't mean "universal themes everyone can get behind".

Hell, has any MMO fulfilled that third one? Without the first, you're just one person swept up in forces greater than yourself -- the story becomes objective. Without the second, you get something like WoW, where lore characters become the actors and players become bystanders.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Kail on July 27, 2014, 08:16:09 PM
IMO you can't tell a good story in an MMO unless:

- It's a personal one customized to that player.
- An illusion is given that the players' version of the world is the only one that exists. Everything revolves around the player.
- Most importantly and where even Guild Wars 2 fails, is that the story is *about something* besides fighting a world-threatening presence with you and your buds.
-- And no, Warcraft, "about something" doesn't mean "universal themes everyone can get behind".

Hell, has any MMO fulfilled that third one? Without the first, you're just one person swept up in forces greater than yourself -- the story becomes objective. Without the second, you get something like WoW, where lore characters become the actors and players become bystanders.

I kinda disagree.  It's possible, not with WoW maybe (because it's written as a single player game where the player has no real agency) but there are a lot of neat stories in other media which are about characters being caught up in forces greater than themselves, or without the illusion that the world revolves around that character.  MMOs are arguably better suited than other video games to tell these kinds of stories given that an MMO environment is inherently about dealing with forces greater than yourself (i.e. the hundreds of other players), and the world doesn't revolve around you specifically, whereas this isn't the case in a single player game.  Trying to shoehorn a single player storyline into such an environment is certainly possible, and you can do it well or you can do it poorly, but I don't think it's the only way to go (or even the best way).


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ingmar on July 27, 2014, 11:34:05 PM
Nailed it.

Warcraft cutscenes can't happen with player agency.

Nonsense. It works fine in SWTOR.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Maven on July 28, 2014, 12:04:07 AM
Well it's a good thing I specified Warcraft!


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Nevermore on July 28, 2014, 12:05:47 AM
What makes Warcraft so special in that regard?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Maven on July 28, 2014, 12:16:15 AM
Restrictions placed by their engine and design. The player is there to watch. They can't affect the action. Cutscenes are homogenized to cut down on asset production. If a player has a choice, it's determined through options in the quest dialog, but all roads lead to the same path as far as cutscenes go.

I'm not saying "Cutscenes cannot have player agency." I'm saying WARCRAFT cutscenes enforce this restriction. However, I would ask you provide a counterpoint so I can better understand your position instead of making it seem like you don't understand mine.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on July 28, 2014, 06:53:28 AM
Good thing Warcraft doesn't do cutscenes as much as they do NPC model acting. Which ALSO ignores players but could easily incorporate them.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Mithas on July 28, 2014, 08:26:43 AM
Tried out the beta this weekend. In order to get into Draenor you have to do a quest chain in Blasted Lands. Mostly the kill x type quests. Once I got into Draenor, it was a slideshow. Basically couldn't do anything. I'm not sure if it was my computer acting up or if there were too many people there or what. Got bored quickly and logged out.

I've been subbed almost non-stop since launch. I am practically a Blizzard fanboy. I think I am done. It all just seems so old and tired. If they are starting to lose people like me, they are in trouble.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Maven on July 28, 2014, 08:57:58 AM
I think we're having a semantics issue.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Hutch on July 28, 2014, 10:17:04 AM
Giving the "real" kill to a lore character in a stupid comic is less annoying, because who gives a shit about the comics. But it gets pretty ridiculous for the game to pull kills out from under their players again and again. It's the way they frame it, mostly. It doesn't feel very heroic or like a victory when you have NPCs elbowing into the scene to get the "real" win. I didn't like when it happened with the Lich King, and I doubt it's gotten any better feeling in any of the instances it occurs after that.

This trope gets reversed in the Garrosh fight at the end of Siege. Thrall gets bitch-slapped by Garrosh in the prelude to the fight, and then the players take down Garrosh without any NPCs coming in to finish him off.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on July 28, 2014, 10:44:39 AM
Giving the "real" kill to a lore character in a stupid comic is less annoying, because who gives a shit about the comics. But it gets pretty ridiculous for the game to pull kills out from under their players again and again. It's the way they frame it, mostly. It doesn't feel very heroic or like a victory when you have NPCs elbowing into the scene to get the "real" win. I didn't like when it happened with the Lich King, and I doubt it's gotten any better feeling in any of the instances it occurs after that.

This trope gets reversed in the Garrosh fight at the end of Siege. Thrall gets bitch-slapped by Garrosh in the prelude to the fight, and then the players take down Garrosh without any NPCs coming in to finish him off.


Incorrect.  The fight ends when his hitpoints get low  and then the npc cutscene begins where they haul him off to jail.  Whether it's jail or a sword, the npc's decide how that fight ends and you have zero say in it.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Zetor on July 28, 2014, 11:00:01 AM
I figured the fight ended when he keeled over and the Dark Souls VICTORY ACHIEVED animation (aka "y'shaarj corruption dissolves into swirling particles") played. I mean, the fight is over when everyone receives their lewt and the raid disbands, right?  :grin:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Hutch on July 28, 2014, 11:21:38 AM
Giving the "real" kill to a lore character in a stupid comic is less annoying, because who gives a shit about the comics. But it gets pretty ridiculous for the game to pull kills out from under their players again and again. It's the way they frame it, mostly. It doesn't feel very heroic or like a victory when you have NPCs elbowing into the scene to get the "real" win. I didn't like when it happened with the Lich King, and I doubt it's gotten any better feeling in any of the instances it occurs after that.

This trope gets reversed in the Garrosh fight at the end of Siege. Thrall gets bitch-slapped by Garrosh in the prelude to the fight, and then the players take down Garrosh without any NPCs coming in to finish him off.


Incorrect.  The fight ends when his hitpoints get low  and then the npc cutscene begins where they haul him off to jail.  Whether it's jail or a sword, the npc's decide how that fight ends and you have zero say in it.

By that definition, the players never win the final boss fight. There's always a cutscene.

The players defeat Garrosh, period. I get that you like to troll me, and this is the bitch thread after all, but the Garrosh fight is the exact opposite of how the Lich King fight ended.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on July 28, 2014, 11:38:22 AM
It ends with the players stopping him, but your point is really lessened since: 1 - He doesn't die, and 2 - He gets away to the fucking past or something.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on July 28, 2014, 11:39:58 AM
I don't even know who you are.  

What you are saying though is that players KILL every single thing in their path but somehow miraculously do not deliver a fatal blow to Garrosh because, reasons.  Just because he doesn't get killed by an npc doesn't make it any different, you still had no say in the outcome of the fight and nowhere were you told "capture him alive"  you get to the boss and blizzard says "sorry forgot to tell you but..."


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rendakor on July 28, 2014, 12:12:49 PM
Giving the "real" kill to a lore character in a stupid comic is less annoying, because who gives a shit about the comics. But it gets pretty ridiculous for the game to pull kills out from under their players again and again. It's the way they frame it, mostly. It doesn't feel very heroic or like a victory when you have NPCs elbowing into the scene to get the "real" win. I didn't like when it happened with the Lich King, and I doubt it's gotten any better feeling in any of the instances it occurs after that.

This trope gets reversed in the Garrosh fight at the end of Siege. Thrall gets bitch-slapped by Garrosh in the prelude to the fight, and then the players take down Garrosh without any NPCs coming in to finish him off.


Incorrect.  The fight ends when his hitpoints get low  and then the npc cutscene begins where they haul him off to jail.  Whether it's jail or a sword, the npc's decide how that fight ends and you have zero say in it.

By that definition, the players never win the final boss fight. There's always a cutscene.

The players defeat Garrosh, period. I get that you like to troll me, and this is the bitch thread after all, but the Garrosh fight is the exact opposite of how the Lich King fight ended.

So you're saying it's OK if the NPCs step in after the loot is given out, but if the NPCs intervene before that it's not? :uhrr: The LK fight functionally ends at 10%, so it's not really different from the Garrosh fight. You just watch Tyrion save you all in-game then get up to hit him a bit more with no risk or challenge involved before the rest of the cutscene plays.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Hutch on July 28, 2014, 12:30:36 PM
There is no NPC interference in the Garrosh fight. Thrall gets walloped. Then the fight starts, and the players defeat Garrosh. Then there's a cutscene.

The cutscene could be the NPCs arguing over who has to dispose of the corpse, rather than who gets to dispense justice. The fight would play out the same either way.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ingmar on July 28, 2014, 12:37:16 PM
Well it's a good thing I specified Warcraft!

There is nothing special about Warcraft that makes it impossible. They're making the *choice* to keep the player from having any agency.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Maven on July 28, 2014, 12:42:59 PM
There is nothing special about Warcraft that makes it impossible. They're making the *choice* to keep the player from having any agency.

If I understand correctly, you're stating that it's possible for them to change, while I feel I'm writing about how things are as they stand from a design and corporate policy stand-point. I agree that if they wanted to make the effort (I'm ignoring exploring the pros and cons of such a shift and focusing exclusively on their ability to do so), they could implement it.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ingmar on July 28, 2014, 12:54:44 PM
I'm saying they never should have made that "design" choice in the first place. But yes, it's obviously possible for them to change. "They made this choice deliberately" is not a valid defense of a bad choice.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Nevermore on July 28, 2014, 01:01:18 PM
I'm not saying "Cutscenes cannot have player agency." I'm saying WARCRAFT cutscenes enforce this restriction. However, I would ask you provide a counterpoint so I can better understand your position instead of making it seem like you don't understand mine.

I didn't understand your position when I made my post.  Your position seems to be 'Blizzard made the decision that players cannot have agency, thus it is impossible', the counter position is 'The decision Blizzard made regarding player agency is stupid and should change'.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on July 28, 2014, 01:35:37 PM
The cutscene could be the NPCs arguing over who has to dispose of the corpse, rather than who gets to dispense justice. The fight would play out the same either way.

So the fight is the same if the boss gets up and runs away in a cutscene? You're being pedantic here. Whether or not the NPC literally stops your fight or rescues the bad guy after a fight, the result is that you effectively did not kill the boss. The guy isn't dead by your hand. That's what we're getting at here. Blizzard has done it over and over again since the Lich King.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on July 28, 2014, 01:44:11 PM
Blizzard has done it over and over again since the Lich King.Kael Thas

They even retcon'd Ragnaros into not being dead.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ingmar on July 28, 2014, 01:50:07 PM
Blizzard has done it over and over again since the Lich King.Kael Thas

They even retcon'd Ragnaros into not being dead.

That's not the same thing we're talking about here. Badguys coming back when you thought they were defeated isn't a factor one way or the other in making you feel like your character is just an extra in someone else's movie.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on July 28, 2014, 01:52:44 PM
Agreed, making a guy come back from a supposed defeat is a common trope in almost every fantasy story. While just as stupid in many cases, there's a large leap between that and having the "killing blow" taken away from you in the final cutscene.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on July 28, 2014, 03:25:12 PM
Rags was never "dead" anyway. Just exiled to the fire plane like any other elemental when defeated.  You have to defeat him on his home plane to actually kill him. It's summoning & multi-dimensional travel 101 guyz!  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on July 28, 2014, 03:45:28 PM
It's really, really easy to give the player a feeling of agency in even Warcraft cut scenes the way they currently do them. You kill or banish (or capture, but ONLY IF YOU KNOW THAT GOING IN) the bad guy, cut scene starts with NPCs reacting to your awesome feat instead of kill stealing or overriding you. I mean, didn't they do that in the Sunwell? You have help getting rid of Kil'jaeden, but the raid actually does the killing, and then some NPCs show up and are like "Holy shit! Now let us barf up an epilogue for you guys." It wasn't a CUTSCENE but ... it pretty much could've been one.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on July 28, 2014, 04:55:27 PM
"We need you to capture Garrosh to pay for his crimes"  One line was really all they needed but they pulled the bait and switch at the end.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on July 28, 2014, 06:27:23 PM
*Game refers to the raid as basically a special forces team all the way through the instance, doing things that the regular Horde/Alliance troops could never dream of*
*Raid dismantles Garrosh's entire military one piece at a time, proving his attitude completely wrong*
*Raid beats the crap out of the only being to successfully weaponise an Old God and leaves him broken and utterly defeated in the dirt*
*Nobody kills him, and Taren Tzu drags him away in chains*

"Waaah, it's not fair we didn't achieve anything it was all the NPCs why doesn't Blizzard make everyone bow down and fellate my genitals"

Really?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on July 28, 2014, 07:05:25 PM
Purposefully misinterpreting the argument, 5 points to house troll. 


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Maven on July 28, 2014, 08:35:42 PM
So, which of the ten - twenty-five - fourty raid members of a game focused on stroking the individual ego of its players gets the credit?

I'm joking. Kinda.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ingmar on July 28, 2014, 09:35:16 PM
So, which of the ten - twenty-five - fourty raid members of a game focused on stroking the individual ego of its players gets the credit?

I'm joking. Kinda.

You all get the credit in your own cutscene.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on July 28, 2014, 10:43:20 PM
So, which of the ten - twenty-five - fourty raid members of a game focused on stroking the individual ego of its players gets the credit?

I'm joking. Kinda.

Well, again I refer to beating Kil'jaedan. The entire raid gets a verbal high five for beating him, and everyone goes home satisfied. That is much better than "yoink!"

No, they're not saying, "You, Sjofn, are the best!" But I prefer "Sjofn's Guild/Group of Assholes from LFR/Whatever defeated the big bad! Thanks, guys!" to "Sjofn's Guild/Group of Assholes from LFR/Whatever hurt the Lich King a lot, then had to be saved by one of our Sues, then sort of helped win. Thanks?"

Thing is, WoW is clearly not about stroking the individual ego of its players, but now it's not even about stroking the collective ego of its players, or even really acknowledging them as a plot force, and that just strikes me as weird. I'm not playing this escapist shit to be an extra. I'm totally cool with not having everyone think I am the bestest best (my favorite NPCs are the ones who think I'm overrated and are sort of assholes to me) (plus I'm one of the people who LIKED Dragon Age 2, a game that is a celebration of failure), but when I'm not a focus of the story, it makes me wonder what the point of it is. Having NPCs always steal the big resolution moment really, really deflates a sense of investment for me.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on July 28, 2014, 10:47:58 PM
WoW: Allowing you to pay for the privilege of playing a walk on part in our story since 2008


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on July 28, 2014, 11:01:05 PM
Exactly. If I wanted to watch a movie I'd watch a movie. An RPG is supposed to engage you, the player, in the story not pretend you aren't there or say "well if the real hero had gotten here sooner this would have been over sooner".

Someone earlier mentioned Elminster and that's a great example. Suppose your DM dragged the purple bastard in at each pivotal moment in a campaign to wrap things up. How long would you continue with that game runner.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on July 29, 2014, 02:32:41 AM
But we did beat Garrosh. Olay, we're not getting to kill him but we snapped his (first) Horde in half over our collective knee, curb-stomped his elite guard, broke all his toys, and then kicked the living shit out of him when he was hopped up on purple drank. He lost, and while we were doing this we also disproved his philosophy so strongly that he had to run away to an alternate universe to find anybody willing to listen to him.

Killing him was always going to be either Thrall (finally fixing his own massive fuck up), Jaina (spiralling further down to being the Alliance's Sylvanas) or one of the Alt-Draenor warlords figuring out he was trying to use him and taking his head off. And much as I'm disappointed that alt-Grom's doesn't end up killing his own son, that's where we are.

Also: don't make me go back to the beginning if this thread and quote all the people complaining about how they are bored of fighting Garrosh and they don't want to see him again.  :grin:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Fabricated on July 29, 2014, 06:51:15 AM
I don't want to see him again. I'm glad he dies at the end of the stupid quest content. I think it's just hilarious that after 3 expansions of this fucker no one likes, it ends with Green Jesus finishing him off.

I'd rather they have turned him into a comedy side-villain you beat up over and over across future expansions in filler patches.

"Team Garrosh is blasting off agaaaaaaiiiiiin~"


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on July 29, 2014, 07:13:33 AM
Killing him was always going to be either Thrall.....

Why?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on July 29, 2014, 09:12:36 AM
Killing him was always going to be either Thrall.....

Why?

Because reasons.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: tmp on July 29, 2014, 09:29:06 AM
Restrictions placed by their engine and design.
The game is 10 years old at this point. They had ample time to remove any engine-oriented restrictions (they certainly retooled their engine in many other ways since its original version) which imo reduces that solely to the "by design" category.

And "by design" doesn't mean much in the game which undergoes major design changes every couple expansions.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on July 29, 2014, 11:48:49 AM
Killing him was always going to be either Thrall.....

Why?
Because Garrosh was Thrall's fault.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lantyssa on July 29, 2014, 12:32:35 PM
Yeah, and PCs never fix other people's problems in games.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ingmar on July 29, 2014, 12:35:53 PM
Yeah, and PCs never fix other people's problems in games.

Nope, never*.

*Seriously, Republic, stop building fucking superweapons.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on July 29, 2014, 12:42:10 PM
I don't get why you guys keep engaging him.  Boredom?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on July 29, 2014, 12:59:20 PM
I was going to edit something in but you're all being spammy today! Anyway, there's also the detail that Garrosh has pretty much destroyed everything Thrall has ever worked towards since escaping Durnholde: the Horde fractured into pieces, the Alliance was (lore-wise*) about half a step away from going "Fuck it, kill all of them and let The Light sort it out later", Jaina in particular is about one bad hair day from using Dalaran as a colony drop on the first Horde city she sees, the orcs in the Horde had their heads pumped full of racial superiority ends-justify-the-means bollocks and Garrosh himself pretty much showed that ZOMGFELCORRUPTION was at least partially an excuse rather than a reason for Grom's own arseholeism**.

It's like someone pretty much went down a checklist marked "Ways to prove Thrall wrong and wreck his shit" and ticked every single one. Thrall is actually justified in this one, it's just his previous Jesus-Goku bollocks over the last couple of expansions has trained everyone into their first reaction being "Christ, him again?" no matter what.

*Yeah, gamewise never gonna happen. Story & gameplay segregation so DWI.
** See also: Most orcs in WoD are also still warmongering, backstabbing tosspots even without slurping down demon piss. All it took for the Shadowmoon clan (for example) to take a flying leap off the slippery slope, turn their back on generations of tradition and heritage, and start using shamanism to force the spirits of the dead to rise as slaves (i.e. necromancy) was for the Iron Horde ambassadors to turn up and say "We need some results soon". That's not the sign of a peace-loving happy clappy noble savage people.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Wizgar on July 29, 2014, 01:28:26 PM
Nobody wants to see Thrall do anything at this point. Nobody cares. It's comical how they keep marching him out there year after year to eyerolls and hurled tomatoes.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on July 29, 2014, 02:01:31 PM
Nobody wants to see Thrall do anything at this point. Nobody cares. It's comical how they keep marching him out there year after year to eyerolls and hurled tomatoes.

It's that Thrall is Metzen's avatar. They (Blizzard) don't care enough to stop him from producing this fanwank and presenting it as AAA story-lines.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Fordel on July 29, 2014, 02:50:11 PM
Yeah, and PCs never fix other people's problems in games.

Nope, never*.

*Seriously, Republic, stop building fucking superweapons.


As soon as the Jedi start being competent.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Fabricated on July 29, 2014, 09:11:01 PM
Okay, I guess Thrall is now going by his "real name" of Go'el and is wearing armor/swinging doomhammer again? lmao


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Nevermore on July 29, 2014, 10:44:06 PM
Not a Superman reference at all.  Nope.  Not at all.  :roll:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Draegan on July 30, 2014, 10:13:22 AM
The last time I was remotely interested in WOW lore was sometime during Vanilla. Then I stopped caring. I also haven't played this game since some time in WOTLK.

People still care about lore? Does this game have Delorean mounts yet?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on July 30, 2014, 10:26:22 AM
People still care about lore?

Yes and no. People care about why/who they are killing in the dungeons to a degree. They don't care about novels as a rule. They want to see things happen in game to major characters. They also want credit for killing things instead of having a Mary Sue appear.

Basically they care about shitty lore decisions fucking up their game, not necessarily the lore itself.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Mithas on July 30, 2014, 10:29:25 AM
I don't know, I liked the lore through WoTLK. I cared about the characters and it just seemed interesting to me. I think the setting helped. I was even interested leading up to Cataclysm but it all fell apart there.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on July 30, 2014, 02:45:12 PM
Not a Superman reference at all.  Nope.  Not at all.  :roll:
It's a bit older than that, actually.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: tmp on July 30, 2014, 05:30:02 PM
Not a Superman reference at all.  Nope.  Not at all.  :roll:
It's a bit older than that, actually.
And a tad bit more egotistical.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on August 01, 2014, 11:41:50 AM
Some people get drunk and fight with friends, some people cheat on their spouses.  I got drunk and preordered the expansion.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on August 01, 2014, 12:00:57 PM
Proof of an abusive relationship? I think so!


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on August 01, 2014, 12:11:10 PM
Some people get drunk and fight with friends, some people cheat on their spouses.  I got drunk and preordered the expansion.

Welp, you're our guinea pig on this one then. Like Miasma is for TESO.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ironwood on August 01, 2014, 12:25:20 PM
I miss WoW.  I just know that I don't enjoy it anymore.

It's like missing riding my bike as a kid.  I don't enjoy the gym as an adult.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on August 01, 2014, 12:33:48 PM
SWTOR has been a fun distraction for me for that MMO fix. Plus it's mostly free. I bought a 2 month game card and it just finished up, I got a character to 55, and another to 25.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Tannhauser on August 02, 2014, 05:59:57 AM
You played SWTOR right, buy a month or two, play the stories and bail out.

They went too far, IMO, in restricting what you can do as a freeper. 

As for Draenor, I kinda want to get it, but I never got MoP so I'm way behind on the power curve and housing is not sounding too great so far.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on August 02, 2014, 08:51:36 AM
I'll see you all in alt-Draenor within six months, then.  :awesome_for_real:

Oh, and if anyone was still upset about the Alliance not getting their version of an awful bike from that dumb Azeroth Choppers thing - guess what?
http://us.battle.net//wow/en/blog/15053028


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on August 02, 2014, 01:55:48 PM
Was anyone (here) upset in the first place?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on August 02, 2014, 02:32:03 PM
People here are upset that Blizzard exists, but I was speaking more generally.  :-)


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Maven on August 03, 2014, 04:22:21 AM
Heh. I would have had a completely different life if Blizzard didn't exist. My 20's practically revolved around the company and their games.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on August 04, 2014, 09:25:48 PM
Maybe we're getting this sooner rather than later?

http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/4212-You-re-Invited-to-a-Warlords-World-Premiere-Cinematic-and-Release-Date-on-August-14

The hope is that the release date is "later that week"  :grin:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on August 04, 2014, 09:29:36 PM
I'm guessing October.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Mithas on August 05, 2014, 08:19:02 AM
Since Blizzcon is November 7th, I would guess October as well. If it pushed into late October, I would think they would wait until Blizzcon is over.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Fabricated on August 05, 2014, 10:01:30 AM
That would explain all the content being cut out.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: tazelbain on August 05, 2014, 10:03:56 AM
That would explain all the content being cut out.
Na, its "Why make a sports car, when these idiots will buy a junker for 50% more"


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Fabricated on August 05, 2014, 10:06:19 AM
Everything that's ever been done or rather not done in this game just gives me the impression that Blizzard's content pipeline is broken.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on August 05, 2014, 11:04:44 AM
Go with November. They'll release after Blizzcon and this will be the big product they hype, because what else do they have in the pipleine? 


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on August 05, 2014, 11:06:17 AM
Go with November. They'll release after Blizzcon and this will be the big product they hype, because what else do they have in the pipleine? 

That stupid MOBA game? Hearthstone stuff? Probably a Starcraft xpac.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on August 05, 2014, 11:22:54 AM
Hearthstone just did their X-pac. No big "ooh, ahh" factor to add.
HOTS is in beta, but not getting traction so also no big "ooh, ahh" factor. Maybe they'll try and force it but I can't see building Blizzcon around it.
SC2 reveal of a new expansion I could see, it's been a year since Heart came out so releasing Legacy next year could happen.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on August 05, 2014, 01:13:28 PM
That would explain all the content being cut out.

(http://i.minus.com/iF5r9DmSc9Qmv.gif)


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Soulflame on August 05, 2014, 01:48:45 PM
I believe there's another expansion slated for Diablo 3, and there's the Protoss expansion for Starcraft 2.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rendakor on August 05, 2014, 04:20:31 PM
Q2 earnings call, WoW down to 6.8m subs.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on August 05, 2014, 04:25:51 PM
Q2 earnings call, WoW down to 6.8m subs.

People were predicting negative or zero earnings for Q2, not sure what the actual number will be.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Mithas on August 05, 2014, 04:52:31 PM
They lost almost 9000 subs/day. I expected quite a bit due to content drought, but that seems awfully high. I guess I'd have to look at other expansions to see what the percentage of loss was and see how that compares.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Maven on August 05, 2014, 05:43:22 PM
People were predicting negative or zero earnings for Q2, not sure what the actual number will be.

I don't understand what you mean by this. ATVI had 970 million net revenue for Q2, above their predictions, and last year took in over 4 billion in revenues. I'm no financial wizard yet (studying to be an Accountant) but ATVI has been a steady market performer and is sitting on a large, stable financial infrastructure.

According to Yahoo statistics, their dividends have increased year over year since 2010. Subscription numbers on WoW may be slipping, but there's far more products in play than this. 20 million copies of Diablo III has sold worldwide.

Edit: Did you mean reduced revenues compared to last year?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on August 05, 2014, 06:03:46 PM
What I'm reading is they posted 0.06 EPS up from some 0.02 projected EPS with $650M in revenues.

I'll have to see the report to tell you more, but without seeing the splits, I can't tell you where the revenue came from.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on August 05, 2014, 09:59:43 PM
Looked into it a little more. The quarter was basically floated by the D3 xpac. WoW's numbers dropping got blamed on Asia, which I find a little funny.

I'm still of the opinion that many things with this company are a house of cards. The debt, the pipeline, and the fact the investors likely have no idea what's coming with this next xpac could be a big problem in 2015.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on August 05, 2014, 10:08:27 PM
Edit: Did you mean reduced revenues compared to last year?

Yes.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on August 06, 2014, 01:44:56 PM
Subscription revenue is up and box sales down, though.

http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/ACTI/3381433901x0x773936/367e59a1-e228-468c-bd15-6f5f7a04aa6c/Q2_2014_ATVI_Earnings_Press_Release.pdf

E: Looks like it's the Activision side that's underperforming, to be honest.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Mithas on August 06, 2014, 01:58:42 PM
10 year anniversary preview:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/15107686/gearing-up-to-celebrate-10-years-of-world-of-warcraft-06-08-2014

  • Limited time BG of Tarren Mill/Southshore
  • 40 man LFR of Molten Core with mount reward for killing Ragnaros
  • Pet for anyone who logs in during anniversary



Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on August 06, 2014, 01:59:07 PM
I agree, I think Activision's pipeline is way worse than Blizzard's currently. Titan is a setback for 2 years from now, but the current people playing WoW will still give them massive revenue for WoD, even if people like myself aren't interested in coming back to play it.

The real question is how fast they discount WoD. I don't think it will change sub numbers at release much, but if they offer a 50% price break at 6 months, they would have a solid shot at pumping up summer revenues again.

EDIT: Also the reason I think Sub revenue is up is Hearthstone. They count all their royalty, DLC, sub, and other income into that category. I think Hearthstone card payments would go there.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rokal on August 06, 2014, 04:03:13 PM
10 year anniversary preview:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/15107686/gearing-up-to-celebrate-10-years-of-world-of-warcraft-06-08-2014

  • Limited time BG of Tarren Mill/Southshore
  • 40 man LFR of Molten Core with mount reward for killing Ragnaros
  • Pet for anyone who logs in during anniversary



Pretty cool. I wonder how significant the MC revamp will be. Also wonder whether this will arrive before or after WoD.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on August 06, 2014, 04:36:21 PM
It should be before wod because a 40man lfr is likely a max level thing and if wod comes before it in october a lot of people are gonna miss out


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rendakor on August 06, 2014, 05:49:34 PM
WoW's anniversary is in November, and I'd expect WoD to be out before that.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on August 06, 2014, 05:52:41 PM
Then it won't give people much time to hit max level before the anniversary raid, which seems like a bad idea.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rendakor on August 06, 2014, 05:57:36 PM
Their expansion releases are all over the place, month-wise, so it's hard to really speculate. I guess WoD could drop in December right after the anniversary event.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on August 06, 2014, 06:58:04 PM
GIven what they're offering that would make the most sense.

Which means it willl drop late October and only those worthy enough to grind to max will be able to do it.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: SurfD on August 06, 2014, 09:42:57 PM
Interesting that the Anniversary pet is the Molten Corgie, and not Hoggs (the mini hogger) like everyone thought.

I imagine MMOC is allready in full swing with the "recycled content" bitch threads :P


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on August 06, 2014, 09:50:26 PM
Interesting that the Anniversary pet is the Molten Corgie, and not Hoggs (the mini hogger) like everyone thought.

I imagine MMOC is allready in full swing with the "recycled content" bitch threads :P

You rang? http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1567413-Admit-it-Warlords-is-starting-to-look-a-lot-more-interesting-lately

One guys says it's getting interesting, a hundred more voices pipe in to say it sucks and it's a glorified patch.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Zetor on August 14, 2014, 12:31:29 PM
Apparently it's coming on Nov 13. Hope you like SoO.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on August 14, 2014, 12:37:35 PM
So we can expect 6.0 to drop in October.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on August 14, 2014, 12:58:52 PM
Watched the well done cenematic but every time I think of the "plot" for WoD I just get angry.  So it's not time travel it's an alternate world, does that mean there's an alternate azeroth, alternate sargeras, alternate titans?  How exactly is this alternate world just created? There are so many things just pulled out of Metzen's ass it makes me dumber for even thinking about it. 


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: jakonovski on August 14, 2014, 01:22:48 PM
I think the alternate orcs build a portal and it connects to the canon universe. Wormhole scifi. Which is a plot device I can get behind.



Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rokal on August 14, 2014, 01:28:59 PM
Watched the well done cenematic but every time I think of the "plot" for WoD I just get angry.  So it's not time travel it's an alternate world, does that mean there's an alternate azeroth, alternate sargeras, alternate titans?  How exactly is this alternate world just created? There are so many things just pulled out of Metzen's ass it makes me dumber for even thinking about it. 

Garrosh goes back in time with the help of the Bronze Dragonflight stuff hinted at on Timeless Isle, makes changes to past-Draenor which creates an alternative timeline version of Draenor, alterna-Draenor builds a dark portal to link up with current-Azeroth and attacks us. It's mostly nonsense, an excuse to revisit old characters/settings without modifying the canon history or 60-70 version of Outlands.

Trailer was still pretty cool though. Sounds like 6.0 will arrive a bit before Nov 13th and will include a level 90 update of UBRS, a world event, and maybe the anniversary stuff.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on August 14, 2014, 01:33:47 PM
See I get the "goes back into the past"  but how in hell do the non demon orcs even build the dark portal let alone but it to travel into "the future"  and why would they even do that, past azeroth would be infinitely easier to conquer with future knowledge. 

Then there's the WHOLE other point that now we have parallel worlds and two versions of EVERYTHING. 


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rokal on August 14, 2014, 01:38:51 PM
I have no idea. The WoW community can't agree on much, but people seem pretty unanimous in feeling that the plot for WoD is stupid.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: jakonovski on August 14, 2014, 01:45:02 PM
Storywise WoW went to shit after they decided that instead of expanding on the universe they'll just make it blow up and then make an expansion out of a joke. I remember thinking, I want to know where the electric mummies come from in TBC.



Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on August 14, 2014, 01:50:55 PM
I remember thinking, I want to know where the electric mummies come from in TBC.



Yeah they are intergalactic merchants but man, that would be new content so fuck that. Let's just re-hash old storylines and maybe add a troll dungeon.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on August 14, 2014, 01:51:30 PM
Orcs didn't need the Demons to power the Dark Portal, they were just forced into building it as slaves to Mannaroth and the BL. Sageras' plan is still fulfilled just not under his lieutenant. Since Medivh - posessed by Sageras - had to open his side at the same time as the orc warlocks, he's obviously on board. He doesn't care so long as Azeroth is destroyed because the Titans are poopyheads who won't let him play in their Titan games, or something.

The portal isn't supposed to be into the future, it's still opening in the past. Only with Emo Orc McGrumpy pants granding his foreknowledge of weapon and magic advances to the hoDemon-Free orc hordes as they invade. He doesn't care that it fulfills Sageras' plan, he only wants to see the Orcs win as Orcs and prove he was right all along.  Orcs rule, all others drool.

As I understand, the players are going back in time to stop that new invasion via the alternate Dark Portal from happening.

Which doesn't matter as it's an alternate Azeroth they'd be invading because paradox would turn all the PC orcs from green to red otherwise.  Ergo the entire premise remains pants on head.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: jakonovski on August 14, 2014, 01:55:23 PM
What, the Portal isn't open and instead it's some Michael Crichtonesque time travel mission to save azerothkind? I take it back, the plot sucks.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on August 14, 2014, 02:14:32 PM
1 - Reskin old stuff but with slightly new shrubs
2 - Put in nostalgia items
3 - Add raids
4 - Put in troll dungeon
5 - Profits


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on August 14, 2014, 02:16:00 PM
Orcs didn't need the Demons to power the Dark Portal, they were just forced into building it as slaves to Mannaroth and the BL. Sageras' plan is still fulfilled just not under his lieutenant. Since Medivh - posessed by Sageras - had to open his side at the same time as the orc warlocks, he's obviously on board. He doesn't care so long as Azeroth is destroyed because the Titans are poopyheads who won't let him play in their Titan games, or something.

The portal isn't supposed to be into the future, it's still opening in the past. Only with Emo Orc McGrumpy pants granding his foreknowledge of weapon and magic advances to the hoDemon-Free orc hordes as they invade. He doesn't care that it fulfills Sageras' plan, he only wants to see the Orcs win as Orcs and prove he was right all along.  Orcs rule, all others drool.

As I understand, the players are going back in time to stop that new invasion via the alternate Dark Portal from happening.

Which doesn't matter as it's an alternate Azeroth they'd be invading because paradox would turn all the PC orcs from green to red otherwise.  Ergo the entire premise remains pants on head.

This is incorrect because as stated in the live panel they just did, the 6.0 world event will be orcs pouring into the blasted lands for players to defeat.  Their portal goes into the future and there is no medievh.  in fact they haven't said is there is anyone helping on our side of things unless it's wrathion who in typical metzen fashion was the one who let garrosh go because "you need a common foe to work together against!!!1111 .....reasons"


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on August 14, 2014, 02:17:16 PM

4 - Put in troll dungeon


I don't doubt they will but it's going to be interesting how they pull it off considering the trolls come from azeroth.  maybe, space trolls.....


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on August 14, 2014, 03:04:31 PM
Orcs didn't need the Demons to power the Dark Portal, they were just forced into building it as slaves to Mannaroth and the BL. Sageras' plan is still fulfilled just not under his lieutenant. Since Medivh - posessed by Sageras - had to open his side at the same time as the orc warlocks, he's obviously on board. He doesn't care so long as Azeroth is destroyed because the Titans are poopyheads who won't let him play in their Titan games, or something.

The portal isn't supposed to be into the future, it's still opening in the past. Only with Emo Orc McGrumpy pants granding his foreknowledge of weapon and magic advances to the hoDemon-Free orc hordes as they invade. He doesn't care that it fulfills Sageras' plan, he only wants to see the Orcs win as Orcs and prove he was right all along.  Orcs rule, all others drool.

As I understand, the players are going back in time to stop that new invasion via the alternate Dark Portal from happening.

Which doesn't matter as it's an alternate Azeroth they'd be invading because paradox would turn all the PC orcs from green to red otherwise.  Ergo the entire premise remains pants on head.

This is incorrect because as stated in the live panel they just did, the 6.0 world event will be orcs pouring into the blasted lands for players to defeat.  Their portal goes into the future and there is no medievh.  in fact they haven't said is there is anyone helping on our side of things unless it's wrathion who in typical metzen fashion was the one who let garrosh go because "you need a common foe to work together against!!!1111 .....reasons"

I was going off the old, original information. I haven't followed-up since Blizzcon. Now it's even dumber, in ways I didn't think possible.  Wtf.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on August 14, 2014, 03:14:25 PM
I imagine Medievh on azeroth2 is just dicking around, playing chess with the sargeras in his head or something.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ingmar on August 14, 2014, 03:21:01 PM

4 - Put in troll dungeon


I don't doubt they will but it's going to be interesting how they pull it off considering the trolls come from azeroth.  maybe, space trolls.....

They can always have you called back through the portal to the old world for a dungeon, they've done it before.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on August 14, 2014, 04:13:29 PM
Trolls are taking advantage of the distraction caused by Dark Portal 2: Electric Boogaloo. They're getting uppity, now kill them!


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rasix on August 14, 2014, 04:16:05 PM
They made another deal with an evil troll god.  This time, however, nothing will go wrong and that god will not double cross, zombify, or enslave them them.  


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on August 14, 2014, 04:22:30 PM
Step 1: Make Deal with Unstable, Untrustworthy Voodoo God
Step 2: ? ? ?
Step 3: Profit!

Ed: The sad smiley was amusingly appropriate but not what I intended.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on August 14, 2014, 06:46:00 PM
Trolls set up a lemonade stand. It's so popular they end up with stores in every part of Azeroth.

Turns the lemonade's secret ingredient is the blood of a troll god, and it warps your mind. We have to raid the headquarters and get back the recipe, which just happens to be in a jungle.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on August 14, 2014, 07:16:27 PM
Orcs didn't need the Demons to power the Dark Portal, they were just forced into building it as slaves to Mannaroth and the BL. Sageras' plan is still fulfilled just not under his lieutenant. Since Medivh - posessed by Sageras - had to open his side at the same time as the orc warlocks, he's obviously on board. He doesn't care so long as Azeroth is destroyed because the Titans are poopyheads who won't let him play in their Titan games, or something.

The portal isn't supposed to be into the future, it's still opening in the past. Only with Emo Orc McGrumpy pants granding his foreknowledge of weapon and magic advances to the hoDemon-Free orc hordes as they invade. He doesn't care that it fulfills Sageras' plan, he only wants to see the Orcs win as Orcs and prove he was right all along.  Orcs rule, all others drool.

As I understand, the players are going back in time to stop that new invasion via the alternate Dark Portal from happening.

Which doesn't matter as it's an alternate Azeroth they'd be invading because paradox would turn all the PC orcs from green to red otherwise.  Ergo the entire premise remains pants on head.
Garrosh is pointing the alt-Dark Portal at Azeroth Prime, not Altzeroth. He doesn't just want to conquer but also revenge and to prove his viewpoint right, which means bringing the Iron Horde through to kill the fuck out of the real Horde & Alliance.

Except for the part where his beachhead gets the shit kicked out of it and a elite commando squad (i.e. the PC and a handful of lore NPCs) run through the Dark Portal, drain it of power, beat up everything in the immediate vicinity and then blow it up from the Draenor side. And then we build a beachhead and decide that as we've got our shit-kicking boots on already and there's a whole lot of things here to gank and steal phat lewt from, let's kill the Iron Horde. And everyone else that looks at us funny.

1 - Reskin old stuff but with slightly new shrubs
So how much of beta have you played, anyway?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Fordel on August 14, 2014, 08:08:15 PM
When does Thrall die for our sins?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on August 14, 2014, 08:44:38 PM
When does Thrall die for our sins?

Two expansions ago, I thought.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Fordel on August 15, 2014, 04:37:13 AM
I'm sure we sinned some more since then.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on August 15, 2014, 12:57:00 PM
November 13th launch will mean there's approximately 14 months between the expansion and the last content patch of 5.4

It will also mean there's a gap of 2 years and 1.5 months between expansions.

It's longer than the gap between Wrath and Cataclysm. When they redid the entire world. Does the content even remotely warrant this gap?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Mithas on August 15, 2014, 05:29:10 PM
That's what doesn't make sense to me. What have they been working on that has dragged this out so long? They were supposed to be adding staff.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on August 15, 2014, 05:32:37 PM
The official line was that adding 80 new team members slowed stuff down due to transitions, whatever that means.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rokal on August 15, 2014, 05:59:17 PM
That excuse is total nonsense. Adding team members for MoP would have slowed down the patch speed (which was really fast for MoP) too if that was actually true. It seems to me like they just chased a lot of bad ideas and spent time in questionable ways.

The new models were way overdo, for example, just like the Cata revamp was. Still, the fact remains that we're getting 0 new races in WoD. I'm sure remaking 10 races for WoD was significantly more work than making the models for Worgen and Goblins, but their insistence on making the revamp models *feel* like the old models means that the work they did doesn't seem as substantial as it actually was. They released a new feature trailer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMc8VP02DFA) and when they show off the old/new race models (4:05), it took me a second to notice any difference for some models. It's pretty impressive that they managed to capture the spirit of each of the old models while completely redoing them, and few would argue that the old models didn't need to be replaced, but a significant amount of work went into remaking old stuff (just like Cata) at the cost of what people expect out of an expansion (just like Cata).

They spent most of their time trying to revisit old themes, aesthetics, and storylines from Warcraft and the result is an expansion that feels old before we've even played it. In that feature trailer above they show off a new raid zone (3:00) and I genuinely spaced out and thought I was watching a Siege of Orgrimmar clip. Maybe they pumped a ton of new art and assets into WoD but it definitely doesn't show.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on August 15, 2014, 06:02:18 PM
Actually for me the updated character models are way more interesting than the old world revamp ever was.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on August 15, 2014, 06:08:37 PM
The Mythical Man-Month not read much around here, I take it?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Hawkbit on August 15, 2014, 06:22:38 PM
Adding 1/3 more team members will slow down any project, there's no question.  The bigger question is why did they need to add 1/3 team members?  What is different than prior development?

They mentioned that adding the new team members slowed things down, but the only reason a company is adding team members is if they wanted to increase content production or reduce content production time.  Neither of those things were mentioned in the article I read.  So far it's seems a pretty shit ROI.

That said, I found the cinematic for the xpac to be pretty damn awesome.  I haven't played beta, I haven't even played WoW in more than a year.  I think maybe I'll give this a shot, because it's not pandas.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ingmar on August 15, 2014, 06:32:31 PM
IIRC they added a bunch of people from Titan that they didn't want to just fire when that project was killed.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on August 15, 2014, 06:52:46 PM
IIRC they added a bunch of people from Titan that they didn't want to just fire when that project was killed.

This is exactly it.  The only way to tell if the slowdown and new members were worth it though is to see how fast content rolls out from wod on.  Not optimistic but hey, it could work.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on August 15, 2014, 08:17:20 PM
I said it over a year ago and it holds true still.  I'll keep an eye on it to see if they do anything but I'm not subsidizing their bullshit anymore. Too many F2P games of equal quality nowadays.  They were big dog for a good, long time but they've stumbled on the content and I'm not paying for it anymore.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Miasma on August 15, 2014, 09:16:48 PM
The Mythical Man-Month not read much around here, I take it?
I've read it and I'm sure people at fucking blizzard have too so it's their own damn fault.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Maven on August 16, 2014, 08:33:04 PM
Revamping the old seems to be Blizzard's creative development strategy along with its content strategy. Warlords of Draenor is a big "What If?" relying on tried-and-true lore instead of forging new developments.

Quote
The bigger question is why did they need to add 1/3 team members?

Talent retention. Blizzard doesn't let people go if they are overstaffed, they merely reassign them. Titan failing to launch would be a large indicator of excess staff on the project.

When the 600 happened, it was a shocker to anyone that is familiar with Blizzard's employee treatment.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on August 16, 2014, 09:40:23 PM
I don't think revamping is the only thing they can do. MoP was by and far a large chunk of original content (save for the Pandas themselves being a long-time April Fools' joke). SoO and the patch prior were admittedly rehashes/revamps of old and new content, but it was rather refreshing coming out of Cata.

WoD will probably explore deep into Draenor's lore; about as deep as they did with Pandaria. We'll probably also get more quantum leap snippets or something from the character's in the alter-past's Azeroth. How they're going to reconcile the handful of characters alive in Azeroth Prime with their alter-past's copies should be fun (Velen for one).

I'm kinda excited for this again, mostly because WS turned out not to be my cup of tea that I hoped it would. If the game's still running after WoD, maybe...MAYBE...they'll put out some more original and new content/lorelol via some new planet where we finally get to take on the Burning Legion.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Phunked on August 16, 2014, 10:41:38 PM
Not going to lie, this expansion has made me sort of care about the lore, to the extent that I actually read about the whole Grom/Mannoroth/fel orcs deal. Keep in mind, I've been playing since War3, and all 10 years of WoW (fuck me). If a cinematic can make me give a shit about what's going on more than 10 years of in game exposition, I  would consider that to be a home run and a half.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on August 17, 2014, 06:41:14 AM
Too many F2P games of equal quality nowadays. 
If they were equal quality they wouldn't have been forced to go F2P, though.  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lantyssa on August 17, 2014, 08:31:45 AM
WoW probably wouldn't survive as a sub game anymore if it weren't for a huge legacy fanbase, either.  The market has changed a lot in ten years.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Maven on August 17, 2014, 08:41:01 AM
It takes a long time to lose 10+ million subscribers.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on August 17, 2014, 09:27:38 AM
Too many F2P games of equal quality nowadays. 
If they were equal quality they wouldn't have been forced to go F2P, though.  :oh_i_see:

F2P remains more profitable than sub. I'm sure Blizzard would love to turn it on, but knows the shitstorm at this point would kill them. But go on carrying that WoW torch and ignore Hearthstone's revenue making up for WoW's severe missteps.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on August 17, 2014, 02:59:26 PM
WoW will trundle on in this expansion just fine. They'll shed numbers continually and probably hit the 5M mark. It's still so much more than anybody else it's laughable.

That being said, I will reiterate that now that ATVI controls all their own debt after the Vivendi buyout, the investors have no idea what's coming. If you read the financial analysis they fully believe that Destiny and this WoW xpac will make 2014 and 2015 incredible years.

It will bump 2014 no doubt. 2015 I'm looking around their pipeline thinking, "What the fuck do they have left? Another COD game? Those haven't exactly been getting incrementally better."


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on August 18, 2014, 01:59:25 AM
Back to The Mythical Man-Month: http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/4261-Raid-Release-Schedule-Mists-of-Pandaria-on-Sale

Quote
Warlords of Draenor took longer than anticipated to create, by roughly 6 months. Getting the new members of the team up to speed took longer than anticipated and slowed things down. A group is already working on the next expansion though, so hopefully there won't be another long gap next time.

"adding manpower to a late software project makes it later"


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on August 18, 2014, 04:51:34 PM
You'd think eventually they'd stop saying "no for real, the NEXT one will be faster!" It's not really fooling anyone, and I think for the mostpart aside from some grumbling, it's not being held against them too hard either.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Fordel on August 18, 2014, 06:01:51 PM
I'm willing to bet it's a large percentage of the exit survey results.

"Why are you making the peon cry?"

'Because there is fuck all to do again!'


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Sjofn on August 18, 2014, 06:53:14 PM
Oh, probably. Still ... it's not fooling anyone.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: koro on August 18, 2014, 07:34:42 PM
Also:

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/08/18/blizzard-increasing-world-of-warcraft-subscription-prices-in-uk

Quote
From November 13, monthly subscriptions will rise to £9.99 from £8.99, three months for £28.17 from £25.17, six months for £52.14 from £46.14, while the three month prepaid time card will retail for £20.99.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Mithas on August 18, 2014, 08:29:54 PM
I'm surprised they haven't done that in the US yet.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Father mike on August 19, 2014, 10:57:20 AM
But prices don't increase for two years if you stay subscribed the whole two years

Pretty shrewd, actually.  They get the long term folks to stay subbed, even after the new of the xpac wears off.  I was half expecting them to give away copies of SC2:Protoss with one year subs.

And you'd better believe this is a test run for other markets.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Maven on August 19, 2014, 11:25:40 AM
Only game in recent memory that I've seen raise its subscription rates. I think the last one was the original Everquest going from 9.99 to 14.99?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on August 19, 2014, 11:42:41 AM
Crazy, but the addicts will pay it.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on August 19, 2014, 11:53:03 AM
Crazy, but the addicts will pay it.

They are going the wrong way. It's in milkman mode now. I don't care if I get the xpac for free, I'm not paying for inflated sub prices. If anything they should just keep them level.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on August 19, 2014, 01:26:52 PM
I don't disagree at all, but they're seeing the dip in revenue and when you add pressure from inflation over the last 10 years I'm sure it's coming from Top-down.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on August 19, 2014, 01:30:48 PM
I don't disagree at all, but they're seeing the dip in revenue and when you add pressure from inflation over the last 10 years I'm sure it's coming from Top-down.

Yeah I agree it's coming from corporate. It just proves to me that they are giving up the idea of attracting players back anymore. This is all about maintaining a slow bleed.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on August 19, 2014, 02:14:40 PM
The HD remakes of Warcraft 1 and 2 that they're working on could also be another way of trying to attract new players as well.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on August 20, 2014, 01:34:52 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/E9DgivY.jpg)

To be fair, he has only done this once before. And in more useful news, the 6.0 beta notes preview: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/13423478

Quote
Looking for a TL;DR summary of all of the changes? Here you go!

    Character stats have been squished into smaller numbers that are easier to understand. It's important to understand that this is not a nerf as enemies' stats have been squished as well.
    A new row of talents has been added for level 100, and new Draenor Perks earned every other level from 92 to 98.
    Garrisons are a new feature available in Draenor, where you can build a base, recruit followers, and send them on missions.
    Balanced functionality of Agility, Strength and Intellect.
    New secondary stats: Bonus Armor, Multistrike, and Versatility.
    Hit and Expertise have been removed; they're no longer needed in order to reliably land attacks!
    The pacing of healing has been adjusted to allow for more tactical decision-making regarding efficiency and throughput, on both single-target and multi-target heals. Passive and auto-targeted healing have been reduced in effectiveness in order to emphasize the actions and choices of healers.
    Racial traits have been rebalanced so that all races have similar combat performance.
    All classes have had several abilities pruned, with a focus on redundant and less-used abilities to cut down on button and keybind bloat.
    Amount of crowd-control in the game (primarily PvP) has been drastically reduced. Many crowd-control abilities have been removed, and many diminishing returns categories have been merged together.
    Several common buffs and debuffs have been merged, or removed, where they were redundant.
    All characters now learn some important Major Glyphs automatically as they level up.
    Toned down the amount of instant healing in the game by giving cast times to several instant cast heals.
    For Tanks, Vengeance has been redesigned and renamed Resolve.
        Resolve does not increase outgoing damage, but does now increases tank self-healing and absorption based on damage taken.
    Facing requirements (character positioning) on some prominent abilities have been loosened or removed.
    Reduced Mana cost of Resurrection spells to make it a little easier to recover from a wipe.
    Professions no longer have combat benefit perks tied to them.
    A multitude of class-specific changes, things like improved distinction between different Talent specializations, and new Masteries. Consult class-specific sections below for more information.

Yes, that really is the tl;dr version.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Soulflame on August 20, 2014, 11:30:14 PM
Oooo, another attempt to make healing more fun and dynamic!

I bet that falls flat on its face


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on August 21, 2014, 08:34:33 AM
They are still fucking with tanking. Still. It's never been right since they went to this active defense model horseshit because tanks are DPSing now apparently.

Quote
Then, to keep tank DPS meaningful, we'll be raising their damage, since it would be meager with no Vengeance Attack Power (Vengeance accounted for 70-90% of a tank's damage on high-tank-damage fights in Mists). To do that, we're increasing the damage of several prominent tank abilities.

MEANINGFUL! My favorite bullshit word that devs use. Never once have I wanted my DPS to matter at all in a raid. I wanted my threat to matter, that was it.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: SurfD on August 22, 2014, 02:01:55 AM
They are still fucking with tanking. Still. It's never been right since they went to this active defense model horseshit because tanks are DPSing now apparently.

Quote
Then, to keep tank DPS meaningful, we'll be raising their damage, since it would be meager with no Vengeance Attack Power (Vengeance accounted for 70-90% of a tank's damage on high-tank-damage fights in Mists). To do that, we're increasing the damage of several prominent tank abilities.

MEANINGFUL! My favorite bullshit word that devs use. Never once have I wanted my DPS to matter at all in a raid. I wanted my threat to matter, that was it.
Eh, Tank balancing has been a never ending circle jerk of trying to find the "sweet spot" for Tank Damage since they moved to the No More Watching Threat model.   Since there are no more meaningful threat Abillities like Hroic Strike being your go-to threat generator for Warriors (Ie, EVERYTHING a tank does generates so much threat it is practically impossible to pull off them) they simply tied Tank Threat directly to damage, just with a Heafty Global Threat Modifier.  And under the old Vengeance (where you got sick amounts of AP for getting whacked) some tanks did stupid amounts of damage with full Vengeance (such as my druid being almost top DPS on several multi Target fights in raids just by dumping AOE cleaves).

I think the current model will actually be almost as close to perfect as they will get iterating on the Active Defense model.   Removing the AP bonus from Vengeance and just giving tanks a flat DPS increase across the board will mean that a Tank will do "acceptable" damage for things like soloing, but wont be out DPSing actual DPS classes in raid environments.  Keeping the +Heal / Absorb part of the Vengeance calculation still allows tanks to self-mitigate well in raid fights.  The decoupling of the Damage portion will allow them to be able to do better tuning of tank Damage and Survivability by tuneing either Damage or Resolve seperately, without worrying that buffing / nerfing one stat (like with vengeance) would outright break either the damage or survivability component (like with Deathknights).


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Phunked on August 22, 2014, 06:11:53 AM
They are still fucking with tanking. Still. It's never been right since they went to this active defense model horseshit because tanks are DPSing now apparently.

Quote
Then, to keep tank DPS meaningful, we'll be raising their damage, since it would be meager with no Vengeance Attack Power (Vengeance accounted for 70-90% of a tank's damage on high-tank-damage fights in Mists). To do that, we're increasing the damage of several prominent tank abilities.

MEANINGFUL! My favorite bullshit word that devs use. Never once have I wanted my DPS to matter at all in a raid. I wanted my threat to matter, that was it.

But...for all intents and purposes your threat generation basically WAS the optimal DPS rotation. There was almost never a tradeoff between "this spell does more threat but less damage" and "this spell does more damage but no threat". Using the warrior example, you used shield slam on cooldown, revenge on cooldown, queued up HS for every melee attack, spammed shield block and used devestate as filler. I guess you could use a different stat priority (to be hit capped) or a different trinket for damage, but you  currently already do that in the "tank DPS matters" model. The only thing threat did was punish PUGs/random content where their tank was horrible. I suppose it was more common in early BC raiding where people still didn't really know how the game worked, but 10 years later, I'd be very surprised if even a random LFR tank couldn't maintain a near optimal TPS rotation.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: SurfD on August 23, 2014, 01:59:41 AM
There hasnt been any kind of meaningful tank "threat" since sowmewhere around late Wrath I think.   Ever since they baked a huge threat modifier into your "spec" or "stance" as a tank and moved away from Threat Modifiers on individual abilities, it has become almost impossible to pull threat off of a tank unless you massively out gear them, or they are seriously under hitcap.   Combine that with Vengeance and the push to move all tanks to the "active mitigation" model, where your resources as a tank are largely no longer used on abilities that generate threat, but instead used to fuel your mitigation, and you rapidly approach scenarios where a tank can literally disconnnect half way through the fight, and as long as they continue auto attacking you probably wont pull threat off them before they log back in.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Phunked on August 23, 2014, 06:44:23 AM
Sure.

And if they DC on relevant content, they'll probably die because the boss used Big smash and they didn't use a cool down for it. Which is what you want, because the boss should punks tanks for not paying attention by killing them.

On trivial content, they'll live just fine with healing and you'll get to keep playing like normal (as DPS) which is also fine, because who gives a shit about trivial content.

Under the new system, overheated DPS are always a benefit - basically no DPS is ever wasted. In the past you would be threat capped no matter how good your tank was, because math. How is that fun?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Azuredream on August 23, 2014, 08:06:12 AM
I thought people hated the tanking model because it added more stress to the tanking role, which is already seen as the de facto 'leader' of any group.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Zetor on August 23, 2014, 08:35:32 AM
Tanks are still the only people who can wipe a group or raid by themselves. Nowadays you can compensate for some bad dps'rs, heck, you can even compensate for bad healing. But if the tank screws up, you're done.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rendakor on August 23, 2014, 08:36:44 AM
It's certainly shitty because active tanking has been there as an option since WotLK in the form of DKs, but the other three classes (to varying degrees) were more passive so people who wanted a more relaxed style had a choice.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Hutch on August 23, 2014, 12:17:22 PM
Tanks are still the only people who can wipe a group or raid by themselves. Nowadays you can compensate for some bad dps'rs, heck, you can even compensate for bad healing. But if the tank screws up, you're done.

For the most part, this is true. There are a few fights in SoO (for example) where there are jobs that have to be done by a DPS, because the tanks and healers are busy being tanks and healers. And if these jobs aren't done right and done on time, the group a-wipe.

Or so I've heard. I've never killed myself on the conveyor belt, or failed to kill Garrosh's engineers in time. These are just stories I've heard  :grin:

edit: eye wright goode


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on August 23, 2014, 12:33:57 PM
I thought people hated the tanking model because it added more stress to the tanking role, which is already seen as the de facto 'leader' of any group.

They've had so many tanking models at this point that each one has its fans and detractors.  What people hate depends entirely on which phase of tank-tweaks they liked the best.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: apocrypha on August 26, 2014, 08:51:53 AM
Quest in beta where you leave a trail of black powder behind your character:

(http://i.imgur.com/r8n8edF.jpg) (http://imgur.com/r8n8edF)


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Fabricated on August 26, 2014, 08:57:16 AM
I wonder if KC Green likes the fact that after he dies he'll still be known as the dude who created Dick Butt.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Mithas on August 26, 2014, 04:12:51 PM
They realized they dropped the ball on this one and are doing some damage control:

Quote
We are already in progress with our next expansion. We already have zones in production for it. Our next expansion after that, we have a couple of different options that we'll be choosing between over the next several months. Beyond that, there are about six or seven different ideas for expansions that we can take elements of and say, 'You know what? Let's take that and put it in this one for our next expansion after the next one.' Or we might shift the timelines around from what we originally envisioned. There's easily 10 years worth of stuff that we can draw from – more, really.

That's from an interview with Tom Chilton found here:

http://www.gameplanet.com.au/pc/features/g53fbe9cf1d67e/World-of-Warcraft-Then-Now-Next/


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: tazelbain on August 26, 2014, 04:21:12 PM
They have riding on free money for so long, they prospect of having to actual earn their money must be daunting.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Typhon on August 26, 2014, 05:54:00 PM
Is flying still out for the expansion zones?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Simond on August 26, 2014, 06:34:51 PM
They realized they dropped the ball on this one and are doing some damage control:

Quote
We are already in progress with our next expansion. We already have zones in production for it. Our next expansion after that, we have a couple of different options that we'll be choosing between over the next several months. Beyond that, there are about six or seven different ideas for expansions that we can take elements of and say, 'You know what? Let's take that and put it in this one for our next expansion after the next one.' Or we might shift the timelines around from what we originally envisioned. There's easily 10 years worth of stuff that we can draw from – more, really.

That's from an interview with Tom Chilton found here:

http://www.gameplanet.com.au/pc/features/g53fbe9cf1d67e/World-of-Warcraft-Then-Now-Next/
Chilton has also said in passing that they've only got two raid tiers planned for WoD - now, whether that's two more tiers or "expansion raids plus one in a patch" isn't exactly clear yet but if it's the latter then they probably need to have wheels in motion already. And is it really surprising that they're saying they've got loads of space for expansions? I mean, Everquest's twenty-first expansion is due for launch a month before WoD.


Is flying still out for the expansion zones?
Current take is out until 6.1 where it will be "reviewed with community feedback taken into consideration". Which is, you know, what they've been saying all along.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Hutch on September 15, 2014, 12:29:20 PM
Blizzard to free up names of player characters that haven't logged on since 2008. (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/15910697)

So basically, everyone that hasn't played since BC will have their toons' names made available for new characters to use.


edit: punctuation


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on September 15, 2014, 12:41:40 PM
That probably means all my alts, haha.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Zetor on September 15, 2014, 01:55:11 PM
It's a pretty shrewd way to cash in on renames -- Séphíröthxz the bloodelf DK will finally be able to get the name he was destined for!


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ingmar on September 15, 2014, 02:04:49 PM
If they removed the ability to use non-standard characters in character names at the same time that would be a small act for good in this world.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Fabricated on September 15, 2014, 02:18:02 PM
that reminds me, I actually intentionally took names like "cloud", "squall", "Sephiroth" etc on a bunch of servers when I signed up day 1 just for trolling purposes. I may literally pay $15 to log back in on all of them to keep them away from stupid people who want them really badly.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: March on September 16, 2014, 09:09:32 AM
that reminds me, I actually intentionally took names like "cloud", "squall", "Sephiroth" etc on a bunch of servers when I signed up day 1 just for trolling purposes. I may literally pay $15 to log back in on all of them to keep them away from stupid people who want them really badly.
Interestingly, it is not enough to activate your account... you must log in to each and every character.  Small price to pay for your humanitarian efforts, but wanted to make sure that detail was not overlooked.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on September 19, 2014, 05:05:30 PM
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/15968415/spoiler-alert-warlords-of-draenor-in-game-cinematics-9-19-2014

Self describing URL is self describing. Not too shabby with their in-game engine these days.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on September 19, 2014, 05:07:31 PM
I can't believe we just glossed over the fact the blizzard said "fuck it, we'll post all this shit officially now"


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Maven on September 19, 2014, 05:10:04 PM
Better them than the data miners.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on September 19, 2014, 05:24:55 PM
I'm sure there's more to come. This is just pre-game spin cycle filler.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ingmar on September 20, 2014, 12:00:47 AM
It's pretty sad that they can't work the player character into the plot even when they're using in-engine cinematics. I was actually feeling a slight itch to play my goblin last week, but watching that stuff, ugh. Never mind.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lantyssa on September 20, 2014, 08:39:52 AM
Weird.  I just see two minutes of the Blizzard logo on all the videos.  Even on YouTube.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Tarami on September 20, 2014, 08:50:47 AM
They aren't really in-game cinematics in that sense. They're custom animated and pre-rendered cinematics with in-game assets.

Weird.  I just see two minutes of the Blizzard logo on all the videos.  Even on YouTube.
It's a spoiler warning pre-video. Skip to the end of it so that the next video in the playlist plays.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Hutch on September 20, 2014, 08:56:49 AM
Would those of you who aren't playing and/or don't care about spoilers, please not come back to this forum and discuss what you see in those videos?

At the very least, use spoiler tags.

I get that this is the place where we snark on Blizzard for being a bunch of idiots, but I'd just as soon wait, and watch these things in-game.

Thanks.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: dd0029 on September 20, 2014, 09:44:17 AM
I will say they really look good. In particular, there's a scene where a character is talking and the mouth isn't the old clamshell. Impressive if that's the level of detail in all of the new models.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ingmar on September 20, 2014, 05:31:03 PM
Weird.  I just see two minutes of the Blizzard logo on all the videos.  Even on YouTube.

You have to click on the spoiler warning thinger in the video to get the real one.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on September 23, 2014, 09:30:10 PM
Pre-patching for 6.0.2 is live. Get ready for 13 gigs of  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Azazel on September 28, 2014, 03:53:41 AM
Is flying still out for the expansion zones?
Current take is out until 6.1 where it will be "reviewed with community feedback taken into consideration". Which is, you know, what they've been saying all along.

When they publicly eat crow on flying in the new expack, I might give a shit and consider going back. Until then, they can continue to not get my money.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on September 28, 2014, 07:42:43 AM
Is flying still out for the expansion zones?
Current take is out until 6.1 where it will be "reviewed with community feedback taken into consideration". Which is, you know, what they've been saying all along.

When they publicly eat crow on flying in the new expack, I might give a shit and consider going back. Until then, they can continue to not get my money.

Won't happen.  They've always hedged their words on it, so much that I believe they always intended to have flying a year into the expac but really don't want people to get their hopes up.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Azazel on October 05, 2014, 04:19:25 AM
Don't get me wrong - I'm not Paelos expecting a personal email of apology. But I won't go back until flying it added properly. Or to put it more correctly, I won't consider going back until then.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on October 05, 2014, 05:33:57 PM
Don't get me wrong - I'm not Paelos expecting a personal email of apology. But I won't go back until flying it added properly. Or to put it more correctly, I won't consider going back until then.

It doesn't have to be a personal email, just a nice form letter email will be just fine.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Xanthippe on October 09, 2014, 11:41:35 AM
Don't get me wrong - I'm not Paelos expecting a personal email of apology. But I won't go back until flying it added properly. Or to put it more correctly, I won't consider going back until then.

(I haven't read this whole thread)

What do you mean? Flying in the new expansion? Don't they always launch without it, and it's a carrot at whatever max_level is?

Do they now allow flying in Panda for everybody, or do you have to get to 80 or whatever? I haven't kept up.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rendakor on October 09, 2014, 11:52:38 AM
No flying in the new expansion at launch. Maybe coming at the first major post-xpac patch.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Hutch on October 09, 2014, 12:38:29 PM
Don't get me wrong - I'm not Paelos expecting a personal email of apology. But I won't go back until flying it added properly. Or to put it more correctly, I won't consider going back until then.

(I haven't read this whole thread)

What do you mean? Flying in the new expansion? Don't they always launch without it, and it's a carrot at whatever max_level is?

Do they now allow flying in Panda for everybody, or do you have to get to 80 or whatever? I haven't kept up.

BC had flying, in Outland, once you got to max level and paid your fee.
LK had flying, in Northrend, once you got to max level and paid your fee. Or was it level 78? I don't remember now.
Cata had flying, in Azeroth (plus Deepholm) if you were level 80+. The level cap was 85. Can't remember if there was a new fee involved.
Mists has flying, in Pandaria, once you get to max level and pay your fee.
In Warlords, there might be flying, in Draenor-2, once the dev team finds out how many people will quit because they can't fly stops hedging around the issue and gives us a straight answer.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rendakor on October 09, 2014, 12:51:38 PM
Cata had a fee. LK was at 80, or 78ish after your first 80.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on October 09, 2014, 12:58:42 PM
No flying, no laundry.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on October 09, 2014, 01:11:11 PM
No flying, no laundry.

Let's be honest, will you even be max level before the first major patch?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rendakor on October 09, 2014, 01:13:20 PM
No flying, no laundry.
This. Line in the sand.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on October 09, 2014, 01:45:05 PM
No flying, no laundry.

Let's be honest, will you even be max level before the first major patch?

No if I bought in this time it would be well after the fact. I'm no longer a play at release person. I doubt I'll play this at all unless I got the expansion for free (which is essentially what they should sell this for since it's a glorified patch in most cases). They would have to prove that aren't being stupid anymore, but pretty much everything about the expansion sounds like reheated ideas with the biggest feature (garrisons) being gutted and turned into something lackluster.

Add in no flying and why would we bother coming back? Games are supposed to be FUN, especially older games, not a series of ridiculous cockblocks. The whole expansion seems lazy, and not allowing flying would be for only one reason, they don't want to make all the art assets. Invisible walls instead of full terrains. And yet they STILL took longer than any other expansion to get this one out.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Draegan on October 15, 2014, 01:30:57 PM
Conversely, no flying kinda makes me want to play this for some reason.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Hawkbit on October 15, 2014, 01:52:37 PM
Conversely, no flying kinda makes me want to play this for some reason.

Same, but I suspect we're a significant minority.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Hutch on October 15, 2014, 02:53:26 PM
Really? Being able to ride flying mounts is the one feature of this game that's keeping you guys from subbing up?

I find that unlikely, at best.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on October 15, 2014, 05:33:28 PM
Really? Being able to ride flying mounts is the one feature of this game that's keeping you guys from subbing up?

I find that unlikely, at best.

Draegan is the hardcore outlier of F13.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Threash on October 15, 2014, 07:12:03 PM
Flying was a huge mistake but you can't just take something like that away from players.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Draegan on October 15, 2014, 07:18:53 PM
Really? Being able to ride flying mounts is the one feature of this game that's keeping you guys from subbing up?

I find that unlikely, at best.


Hardly. But the idea of the world not being shrunk by zipping around anymore seems fun. So then I consider coming back and realize all the things that I dislike about the game.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on October 15, 2014, 07:19:58 PM
Really? Being able to ride flying mounts is the one feature of this game that's keeping you guys from subbing up?

I find that unlikely, at best.


Hardly. But the idea of the world not being shrunk by zipping around anymore seems fun. So then I consider coming back and realize all the things that I dislike about the game.

Flying was literally the first step in the game becoming as antisocial as it now is.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lantyssa on October 15, 2014, 08:22:57 PM
Flying made me enjoy it more, but then I got my green proto-drake on my second attempt and that was my favorite mount ever, even beating out the zhevra.  And then on the fifth or sixth with my other character.

I wonder if Nevermore ever got one...


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on October 15, 2014, 08:36:39 PM
No doubt flying IS fun but I believe it disconnects players from each other(And the ground :awesome_for_real:) and that disconnect when compounded over and over by other design decisions makes the game a lot less sticky.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Azazel on October 16, 2014, 02:19:28 AM
I don't play MMOs to have forced social interactions with strangers (or internet-friends). I did that in EQ for long enough, and while I had great guildmates from various places around the world, those relationships are long gone. I play MMOs for persistent character development, a large-enough sandbox with enough theme park so I can make my own fun by exploring or wandering around - or go for a quest/NPC-driven ride, and to play socially not with internet randoms or guildmates, but with actual friends and loved-ones. Flying and the freedoms it brings helps that enormously.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ashamanchill on October 16, 2014, 02:22:06 AM
Taking out flying is a 2008 solution to the problem though.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Fabricated on October 16, 2014, 07:01:44 AM
This expansion is less inspired than anything put out in 2008.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Setanta on October 16, 2014, 07:54:38 AM
What the fuck did they do to the proportions of my Tauran? They used to be tall and built - now it looks like someone squashed them into a freaking box.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Draegan on October 16, 2014, 11:53:13 AM
I don't play MMOs to have forced social interactions with strangers (or internet-friends). I did that in EQ for long enough, and while I had great guildmates from various places around the world, those relationships are long gone. I play MMOs for persistent character development, a large-enough sandbox with enough theme park so I can make my own fun by exploring or wandering around - or go for a quest/NPC-driven ride, and to play socially not with internet randoms or guildmates, but with actual friends and loved-ones. Flying and the freedoms it brings helps that enormously.

I play MMOs for the multiplayer environment. Whether that's walking past someone, watching people do sometihng, avoiding a bad guy, attacking a good guy. Sharing a space for 1 minute or an hour in a group. Flying just takes away from that in WOW in my opinion. But it's not the end all be all on it.

I'm pretty much anti-forced grouping myself these days, and I barely have enough to time to put into an MMO. I basically only play League of Legends now with my brother in law. I did manage to get to level 50 in Archeage before going meh.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lantyssa on October 16, 2014, 01:08:02 PM
That doesn't make any sense to me.  You have shared space in town.  Flying allows you to see what is below you and around you in all directions.  You'll see more players on a flying mount than wandering about.

Phasing to hell and back has a far greater affect on who you see than flying does.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on October 16, 2014, 01:22:49 PM
That doesn't make any sense to me.  You have shared space in town.  Flying allows you to see what is below you and around you in all directions.  You'll see more players on a flying mount than wandering about.

Phasing to hell and back has a far greater affect on who you see than flying does.

That's kind of BS.  Most of the time flying you are moving too fast to see jack shit and if you are just hovering around that's it.  Shared space in towns is also equally ridiculous since they might as well be npc's for all the interaction and cross server stuff that happens now.

I'm not talking about forced grouping here,  wow used to be a game you shared with other people on every level.  Whether it was exploring the world, soloing, farming mats or doing dungeons you did it alongside other people and people whom you would likely see again.  Now you just teleport to your dungeon with 4 random strangers or you fly above the world and essentially teleport to any quest/node location before hopping back in the sky.  Even if you do meet people out in the world your chances of even seeing them again are remote, let alone ever interacting with them. 

Servers don't exist and worlds don't exist and what's left is a gameplay that is quite frankly lackluster if it were a single player game.  Wow has become just that, a single player experience that can be shared if you have friends/family but experiences like that already exist and don't charge a sub fee. 


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Draegan on October 16, 2014, 01:52:57 PM
That doesn't make any sense to me.  You have shared space in town.  Flying allows you to see what is below you and around you in all directions.  You'll see more players on a flying mount than wandering about.

Phasing to hell and back has a far greater affect on who you see than flying does.

I would argue against phasing if questing didn't suck to on populated servers/areas. GW2 did that better.

My "shared space in town" is essentially instanced lobby game which i really don't want in my MMO. But you're a huge huge GW1 fan so you're biased. :D


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Typhon on October 16, 2014, 05:52:18 PM
There are many reasons why I won't get the expansion, so flying is just the, "LOL, okie dokie then, nothing else to see here!  (rapidly forget that there is a expansion)".  In some ways I'm grateful that they made that decision.


Edit: "so flying" not "no flying"


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Nevermore on October 16, 2014, 06:33:14 PM
Flying made me enjoy it more, but then I got my green proto-drake on my second attempt and that was my favorite mount ever, even beating out the zhevra.  And then on the fifth or sixth with my other character.

I wonder if Nevermore ever got one...

Nope, but that's ok because I have less than zero interest in ever playing WoW again.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on October 16, 2014, 07:04:21 PM
I still can't believe I got drunk and bought the expansion last month.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lantyssa on October 16, 2014, 10:20:56 PM
Now you just teleport to your dungeon with 4 random strangers or you fly above the world and essentially teleport to any quest/node location before hopping back in the sky.  Even if you do meet people out in the world your chances of even seeing them again are remote, let alone ever interacting with them.
And those are valid reasons why you don't see people out in the world as well.

While I think flight is a cool thing, it's not make or break to me.  WoW has a ton of other 'break' things to my tastes.  It's not like I don't agree with Draegan as to the feel, even if we want different things from the game, I just don't agree that the existence of flight had anything to do with it.  We had flight in BC and WotLK.  Things were fine then.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Draegan on October 16, 2014, 11:52:11 PM
If you jump into the live support chat and ask for a free trial because you are thinking of coming back, they'll give you a free 7 days.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Xanthippe on October 17, 2014, 11:27:15 AM
I was confused. I thought you all were talking about no flying until max_level, not no flying at all.

How long will that decision last, I wonder.

I haven't bought the expansion, and don't know if I will. I like flying but how well this works or doesn't work, I don't know.

I was pleasantly surprised by Pandaria (in terms of it being pretty and all), but not terribly excited about the story lines. I haven't even followed this expansion other than it's like a dream Outlands? but Outlands will still be there, they aren't getting rid of Nagrand, I hope (still my favorite zone).

Kid in college means game budget is sunk (still), so I don't know.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Mithas on October 17, 2014, 11:29:43 AM
It is an alternate timeline of Draenor. Outland still exists. In fact this takes place on Draenor before it turns into Outland. Nagrand is still there.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on October 17, 2014, 11:37:59 AM
It's alternate reality AND in the past because they are a bunch of unoriginal hacks that can't make an interesting new storyline and have to constantly go back to characters people remember from twenty years ago.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Job601 on October 18, 2014, 01:12:37 PM
I resubscribed for the first time since WOTLK after my account was gifted MOP and I've had a good time leveling to 90, but I doubt I'll buy the new expansion or keep playing past the first month.  Having played both expansions straight through for the first time, it's clear to me that getting rid of flying is the right move.  The cataclysm zones designed for questing with flying are less immersive and more confusing geographically than the MOP zones which were built for ground mounts.  Questing on foot means that you occasionally have to plan your route, worry about large numbers of enemies, and in general slow down and catch your breath.  As soon as I hit level 90 (midway through the third zone out of seven) and bought flying, all I did is zoom down, blast a guy, and zoom back up.  I don't have the self-discipline to slow down even if I think it's more fun, but I don't blame them for wishing they had never added flying in the first place and taking it out now that they have the chance.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: jakonovski on October 18, 2014, 01:24:45 PM
I resubbed for bugged quests and the world server shitting itself every 30 minutes. Everything in Pandaria is really confusing too, everything's out of whack with the new patch. The quality of the game feels significantly worse than in WOTLK or even Cata times.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ironwood on October 18, 2014, 05:27:38 PM
Ditto.  This is a fucking train wreck.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on October 21, 2014, 08:58:53 AM
Subbed to check out the massive changes to hunters and I don't have the issues crashing you guys do.

Class review: Survival isn't bad, but Beast feels terrible now.  I'm going to drop it and see how Marks feels since that was always my favorite but it fell behind years ago.

Timeless isle is nice, and I'm going to try to get the legendary quest done. Hooray for PVP requirements. 2 1/2 hours, not a single win. Go Alliance.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ironwood on October 21, 2014, 09:57:40 AM
The Disc priest is hilarious.

You have two buttons now.  Heal and heal.

 :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on October 21, 2014, 10:07:13 AM
They fucked over shadow pretty bad. You can do damage sure but gone is one chance priests had of soloing anything of difficulty.  "You wanted to solo that? Next time roll a DK"  should be the tagline for this expac.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ironwood on October 21, 2014, 10:08:29 AM
Yeah, Christine mentioned that.  She also found the Mage to be paper thin.

I don't like it anymore.  I only subbed because Elena wanted to play with Frizzy-Bear again, but from what I've seen I'll just let it lapse again.

It's shockingly bad.



Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on October 21, 2014, 11:46:23 AM
I haven't played those alts of mine since they were only 85. I never took them up to 90.  Sad if the case, but I saw a LOT of Disc priests in BGs still, so they can't be that bad.

Shadow wasn't great shakes this Xpac anyway. The rotation was bullshit to manage. The notes make it seem better, but run the risk of being mana-starved since there's no more mana regen.  Plenty of love to Vamp Embrace, Vamp Touch and shadow healing from what I saw, is it not the case in practice?

Mage just seems all over the place. They nerfed fire because it was by far too powerful compared to the other two, but, uh.. that just means it sucks as much as the other two but with a different playstyle now.  I agreed with the notes that the DoT playstyle was wrong for mages.  I want to make things go boom, not dot-dot-run.  There seems to be a distinct lack of BOOM on paper to all three specs.

Played the DK for a little and frost is weird. I never enjoyed it anyway, so I'll have to give Unholy a try.  I'm not even attempting to tank things so no idea how blood's doing these days.

Druids seem in to be in a terrible state.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: jakonovski on October 21, 2014, 03:37:46 PM
Almost a week after patch and the game still kicks me out with a world server down error within 30 minutes.

A ten year old game that isn't stable.

I literally feel like an idiot for resubbing.



Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on October 21, 2014, 04:24:16 PM
What server? I haven't had an issue but once and I catassed all weekend to try things out. Alleria US and Khadgar US disconnected from the unified realm server for Timeless Isle and booted me out. I reconnected within 30 seconds. 


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Hutch on October 21, 2014, 04:43:33 PM
If you're getting booted within 30 minutes every time you play, try the tech support boards (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/1011701/).


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: jakonovski on October 21, 2014, 05:28:34 PM
I'm on EU Draenor and checking the tech support forums, it's a known issue affecting "some realms". So fuck Blizzard, no excuse for this.

 


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ironwood on October 22, 2014, 04:16:27 AM
Maybe it's just the EU then mate.  We always get boned.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: jakonovski on October 23, 2014, 03:16:02 AM
The game finally worked last night, and I even managed to mooch a definitely not welfare epic by taking a swing at a random world boss that was being attacked by a raid group.

I might play the expansion yet.








Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on October 23, 2014, 01:45:31 PM
Funny, playing for the changes as only cemented the idea that I don't want to play the x-pac. 

While I enjoy the QOL aspects of all the classes I've touched on, running LFG raids, PVP and the timeless isle content has only reaffirmed that it's not for *me* anymore.  Shit takes too much time and it's too frustrating.  I have more fun in a good 30-45 min session of Marvel Heroes than I do in a similar time of WoW, plus I actually get a shitload of loot.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Fordel on October 23, 2014, 08:47:15 PM
If this was some kind of F2P I'd maybe look at it. Dropping a sub fee and a box price onto something I'll probably hate... nah.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ironwood on October 24, 2014, 04:32:15 AM
Funny, playing for the changes as only cemented the idea that I don't want to play the x-pac. 

While I enjoy the QOL aspects of all the classes I've touched on, running LFG raids, PVP and the timeless isle content has only reaffirmed that it's not for *me* anymore.  Shit takes too much time and it's too frustrating.  I have more fun in a good 30-45 min session of Marvel Heroes than I do in a similar time of WoW, plus I actually get a shitload of loot.

Yeah.  This game is over for me too.

And it's a shame because it still has some limited hooks in the wife and more in the kid.

But there are far, far, far too many other games out there I can get for that money a month and have much more fun with.  Hell, Grimrock and Gnomoria will swallow my life for ages yet and they were one month sub each.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on October 28, 2014, 04:28:35 PM
Got 7 free days. Played for an hour. Quit. Uninstalled.

Nope.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rasix on October 28, 2014, 04:34:59 PM
Got 7 free days. Played for an hour. Quit. Uninstalled.

Nope.

45 minutes longer than I lasted.

I'm just done with the game.  No real fault of WoW, except that it's still WoW.  I've got another MMO with an actual active group that I can go to.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ironwood on October 29, 2014, 05:39:32 AM
That's the strange thing tho, at the moment I don't.

But this is seriously not fun anymore.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on October 29, 2014, 07:57:21 AM
After playing SWTOR I'm basically spoiled now about quests. Text over and over doesn't do it for me if you want to tell an important story. There was a neat cinematic where they showed stuff coming through a portal, but other than that? Meh.

World of Dailies is still grindy.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Mithas on October 29, 2014, 09:14:11 AM
Aren't they really dialing back the dailies for the next expansion?

I'm getting weird performance issues that I never really had. Boss pull in a raid slows my machine to a crawl at first.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Fabricated on October 29, 2014, 11:54:50 AM
I'm tempted to try the new FF (my brain refuses to remember the specific number or roman numerals) since I hear that's great, but I've got my MMO-ish daily grind going on in Destiny.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lantyssa on October 29, 2014, 03:27:34 PM
14.  It's the best fantasy diku-like out right now.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on October 29, 2014, 06:39:51 PM
14.  It's the best fantasy diku-like out right now.

I'd play it with a buddy but he's on a legacy server and I don't think I can get on it as a new player.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rasix on October 29, 2014, 07:10:49 PM
If you do play FFXIV, it's best if you can join an established group. The dungeons get a little more difficult around the lvl 30+ area, so pugs might get more annoying at that point. It also really helps if you have a group of people that are willing to help you during the various story line dungeon cock-blocks.

Plus, you can level a whole lot faster and make up some of the story line level gaps easier if you can just go jump in a dungeon.  This might also depend on your tolerance of pugs, because if you're willing to do the low level duty roulette you can level rather fast.

Just a bit of a warning, it didn't really catch on for me until the dungeons came into play.  The story quest can be a bit rough in parts and the lower level combat mechanics aren't fantastic.  However, it's gotten me to sub and stay subbed, which is a credit to the game.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ginaz on November 13, 2014, 07:18:52 PM
Long que times, lag and server crashes.  It's like the launch for Arche Age all over again.  I wonder if idling at the character select screen will work to keep you logged in to WoW like it did with AA? :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Mithas on November 13, 2014, 07:26:31 PM
I don't remember the queues being this bad for MoP. I've seen people reporting 4 hour queues. My wait was only about 20 minutes.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: jakonovski on November 13, 2014, 07:29:20 PM
As a working man it's basically impossible to play when I have time. So even though I'd like to buy this, I won't.



Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on November 13, 2014, 08:58:18 PM
I don't remember the queues being this bad for MoP. I've seen people reporting 4 hour queues. My wait was only about 20 minutes.

They put a lot more hype into this one than MoP. I don't remember TV commercials everywhere, plus the things like the Times Square ad.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Nebu on November 13, 2014, 11:19:43 PM
I don't remember the queues being this bad for MoP. I've seen people reporting 4 hour queues. My wait was only about 20 minutes.

I'm playing on a rp pvp server with friends.  Prime time queue was 6 mins.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: SurfD on November 14, 2014, 03:55:51 AM
I don't remember the queues being this bad for MoP. I've seen people reporting 4 hour queues. My wait was only about 20 minutes.

I'm playing on a rp pvp server with friends.  Prime time queue was 6 mins.
I play on Tichondrious (one of the original 10  (i think) servers).  I had a roughly hour long queue to get in on Wednesday night.  Got home after work this morning (2 am ish friday morning), ~3300 person queue, Estimated time calculator said approx 3 hours, give or take.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Mithas on November 14, 2014, 07:14:03 AM
So 4 hour maintenance the day after launch? What the hell?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: lesion on November 14, 2014, 08:23:32 AM
Scheduled poopshow. :uhrr:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on November 14, 2014, 08:33:36 AM
So 4 hour maintenance the day after launch? What the hell?

People on twitch that I saw couldn't get in. Pretty hilarious stuff.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on November 14, 2014, 09:04:40 AM
So they were being DDOSed and it looks like they didn't plan for as many people to come back as have done so, turning reports into a clusterfuck.

Daughter was bopping around just fine wherever she was, but she also said it was crashing often on her since she'd gotten home from school.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ironwood on November 14, 2014, 09:24:05 AM
DDOS ?

You got a source on that ?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on November 14, 2014, 09:28:13 AM
DDOS ?

You got a source on that ?


http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/15271097043#1

3:02PM update, third paragraph. Also, a couple news outlets reported it too.

Good thing I sent my minions out on a five hour mission before going down  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ironwood on November 14, 2014, 09:32:05 AM
I meant a trusted source.  They said that shit for months about the EU servers and in the end it turned out to be nothing of the kind.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Xanthippe on November 14, 2014, 10:35:00 AM
I know I said I probably wouldn't play this but like a bad ex-boyfriend, WoW invades my thoughts. "Please come back, it'll be different this time, I promise."

Played on Illidan yesterday. Logged in about 6am pacific to a few hundred person queue, got in after about 20 minutes. My friend tried logging in about 2pm and was number 5000something in the queue. (After hours in the queue, he gave up and went to bed - never did play).

I was amazed at the bottleneck quests - this is 4th expansion, don't they know not to do this? Especially for phased crap. Why make it so linear to begin with?

Several beginning quests were not working as intended. In order to complete them, it was necessary to join a group and aoe randomly hoping to tag mobs before the other hundreds/thousands of people wanting to. Tower of Gormaul took me a good 2 hours because the phasing was fucked up - couldn't see the mobs, then they'd evade when I did see them. "These Colors Don't Run" was impossible. Finally a friend on a low pop server invited me, so I could actually do the quest.

Worst launch I've seen yet for Blizzard. It's as though they've never done this before.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: kaid on November 14, 2014, 10:36:14 AM
DDOS ?

You got a source on that ?


http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/15271097043#1

3:02PM update, third paragraph. Also, a couple news outlets reported it too.

Good thing I sent my minions out on a five hour mission before going down  :awesome_for_real:

I was glad I at least was able to have my barn set to "Milk" my cows that I had "invited to come to my barn" before garrisons totally crapped themselves so in theory baring roll back should at least have a fair amount of work orders done when I get home as well as a bunch of burnished leather.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ironwood on November 14, 2014, 10:37:12 AM
WHAT THE FUCK WERE YOU ALL EXPECTING ??!  THIS THREAD IS MAKING ME SAD.

Mostly because I'm going to have to hear the same shit from the Wife all weekend.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on November 14, 2014, 10:44:44 AM
WHAT THE FUCK WERE YOU ALL EXPECTING ??!  THIS THREAD IS MAKING ME SAD.

Mostly because I'm going to have to hear the same shit from the Wife all weekend.


The 7 free days a few weeks back was the best thing they could have given me. It completely nipped any desire I might have to play this game right in the bud.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Xanthippe on November 14, 2014, 11:12:41 AM

I was glad I at least was able to have my barn set to "Milk" my cows that I had "invited to come to my barn" before garrisons totally crapped themselves so in theory baring roll back should at least have a fair amount of work orders done when I get home as well as a bunch of burnished leather.

Wait, what? Garrisons can have farms and cows that get milked?

(One of these days, I'll read about expansions just like I'll read patch notes before playing. Maybe.)


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ironwood on November 14, 2014, 11:15:20 AM
WHAT THE FUCK WERE YOU ALL EXPECTING ??!  THIS THREAD IS MAKING ME SAD.

Mostly because I'm going to have to hear the same shit from the Wife all weekend.


The 7 free days a few weeks back was the best thing they could have given me. It completely nipped any desire I might have to play this game right in the bud.

Me too.  I logged to check out the patch and just said NO.

I still can't believe what they did to most of the classes.  Hunters really, really got dicked.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Hutch on November 14, 2014, 11:32:38 AM
Regarding the queues, something to bear in mind is that there have been a ton of server merges connected realms over the past couple years. So realms like mine, where I have never before seen a login queue, had a queue last night. Not a huge queue, but nonetheless.

So far I've got my newb Garrison filled out with a Barracks and the Engineering building, I've accumulated 4 followers, and kicked off a couple work orders.

I am making it a point to travel around on one of my Proto-Drakes, since they are ground mounts now.

Hunters got a bunch of stuff rearranged or taken away, but my Siege geared hunter plowed through the opening sequence and the portion of Frostfire Ridge that I've done so far. It's too easy. I target things and they die. I've never seen leveling mobs just keel over like this. It's a little insulting.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lantyssa on November 14, 2014, 12:07:06 PM
DDOS ?
It sounds better than saying there are too many people trying to log in at once.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on November 14, 2014, 01:23:58 PM
WHAT THE FUCK WERE YOU ALL EXPECTING ??!  THIS THREAD IS MAKING ME SAD.

Mostly because I'm going to have to hear the same shit from the Wife all weekend.


The 7 free days a few weeks back was the best thing they could have given me. It completely nipped any desire I might have to play this game right in the bud.

Me too.  I logged to check out the patch and just said NO.

I still can't believe what they did to most of the classes.  Hunters really, really got dicked.


I disagree. Hunters lost a lot of bullshit fiddling that made them less enjoyable to play and only marginally added to their DPS. They still have their utility skills and the only real losses are Volley -which went away ages ago- snake trap (which was meh) and Aspects. 

They could never figure out wtf to do with Aspects anyway. Fox was great, but then hunters got the ability to fire on the move and it was pointless.  Monkey was good but once Hunters became 100% ranged instead of being based off of Rexar (who is melee in WC3) it was useless. So you were in Hawk all the time except when doing overland travel, so why have an aura for it?  It's a fiddly button push when you die. Fuck it.

All the rest is there, just baked-in to abilities or limited to a specific spec to reduce cooldown monitoring.  I'm good with it as the changes made my hunter a lot more fun to play instead of micromanaging crap. The only other class that had to do as much juggling was rogues and they seem to still be at that level.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ironwood on November 14, 2014, 02:49:58 PM
BM Hunter.  3 buttons and a pet that dies quick.  It ain't fun.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on November 14, 2014, 04:27:49 PM
If your pet is dying quick, look at the talents you've got and what type you made him.  You want Ferocity or Tenacity for soloing. The Cunning pets are worthless.   I also use more than 3 buttons as BM.

Kill Command, Cobra Shot, Arcane Shot, Your 2 talent DPS cds and traps. Also multi-shot on anything more than 2 mobs.  That's just off the top of my head.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: jakonovski on November 14, 2014, 04:54:37 PM
Queue of 4500. They've really messed up their servers.



Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ironwood on November 14, 2014, 04:54:48 PM
 :facepalm: :oh_i_see:

Queues are hours long.  She's really, really, really not happy.

I, however, am giving it a bit of a good old Lol.

So there's that.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Mithas on November 14, 2014, 04:57:02 PM
Guess I got in early enough because no queue for me. I thought they were fixing some of these issues?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ironwood on November 14, 2014, 04:59:00 PM
It'll be the DDOS attack.

Yeah.

That'll be it.

 :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: jakonovski on November 14, 2014, 05:06:28 PM
So could it be that inactive server population is way beyond server capacity on old servers, and as a result they can't support an active player base? Ie. these queues aren't going away until enough people give up in frustration.



Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Mithas on November 14, 2014, 05:07:40 PM
Other than not being to play all day due to maintenance, I haven't had any issues. I have no lag and haven't been disconnected. I am on a medium pop server though, so not sure if that is making a difference.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Setanta on November 14, 2014, 10:07:14 PM
It'll be the DDOS attack.

Yeah.

That'll be it.

 :awesome_for_real:

Shame that the DDOS attack is now confirmed by Blizzard on Twitter to be... players trying to log in  :ye_gods:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Mithas on November 14, 2014, 10:08:24 PM
Maintenance again tomorrow from 3:00-9:00 AM PST. There has been a hell of a lot of downtime for this.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Setanta on November 14, 2014, 10:18:44 PM
LOL - I haven't been able to even log in yet


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ginaz on November 15, 2014, 12:33:13 AM
Logged in at 1530 hrs and its now 2230 hrs and there's currently 534 in que in front of me.  I guess Blizz is celebrating WoW's 10 year anniversary by having the same log in, ques and lag they had at launch in 2004. :oh_i_see:

Edit: In now at 2339 hrs.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Xanthippe on November 15, 2014, 04:22:15 AM
Played a bit more today but only because I logged in right when the servers came back up.

Went to bed early, woke up a few minutes ago with my usual hot-flashes-toss-n-turn, but decided to try logging in since it's 1am and the servers don't go down for another 2 hours.

2934 in the queue.

Back to bed for me!


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: jakonovski on November 15, 2014, 09:46:03 AM
Welp, maintenance didn't fix the queue, so fuck Blizzard. Glad I only had two days left on the sub, so I can wait out this clusterfuck. Seriously, I'm pretty much convinced that Blizzard sold all their WoW servers and were running off of Metzen's old workstation. No other explanation for a sudden and complete inability to support a large player base.


 


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on November 15, 2014, 11:02:45 AM
The worst part is this is a much better expansion than pandaria but the way they fucked the servers over with mergers is killing off any goodwill the content may provide.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Maven on November 15, 2014, 11:10:48 AM
Friend who is a WoW fanatic was gushing over this expansion. The long queues didn't really bother her, she just wanted to get past it.

This was an expansion that people wanted to see work after Pandas. Also, Horde-lovers get a lot of love.

Was there ever an Alliance-focused expansion? Even Lich King gave the Horde a lot more interesting lore than the others. I rarely hear about Alliance politics. Jaina something something Aegwynn something something.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Mithas on November 15, 2014, 11:17:41 AM
Back in after maintenance. Still no queue for me and no lag issues. This must really just be affecting high pop realms.


Edit: typo


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on November 15, 2014, 11:27:08 AM
As I mentioned in the other thread, today's downtime should allow them to increase the caps to normal. Try it again.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on November 15, 2014, 11:35:03 AM
Welp, maintenance didn't fix the queue, so fuck Blizzard. Glad I only had two days left on the sub, so I can wait out this clusterfuck. Seriously, I'm pretty much convinced that Blizzard sold all their WoW servers and were running off of Metzen's old workstation. No other explanation for a sudden and complete inability to support a large player base.

They definitely spun-down and offlined a lot of servers over the last 2-3 years. The playerbase just didn't justify keeping so many running for little to no good reason. That's what the mergers and the shared-zone technology was all about.  I imagine these frequent maintenance outages are them spinning-up what they can again and merging them into the hardest-hit servers.

Was there ever an Alliance-focused expansion? Even Lich King gave the Horde a lot more interesting lore than the others. I rarely hear about Alliance politics. Jaina something something Aegwynn something something.

There has not been, no.  The most interesting lore has always revolved around Thrall/ Horde because: Metzen.  Even Bolvar as Lich King II felt more like a bone being tossed than a cool Alliance moment because it was removing one of the coolest characters.  The only reason Jaina hasn't gone full bad-guy is the utter revolt you'd have from players who care.  She's crazy/ bitch-ass enough after the Pandaria stuff that folks aren't happy.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: jakonovski on November 15, 2014, 12:21:49 PM
I just hope they have improved on the Diablo 3 era reaction times. The expansion deserves better than to get hamstrung by corporate rot.





Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Setanta on November 15, 2014, 04:48:43 PM
Was there ever an Alliance-focused expansion? Even Lich King gave the Horde a lot more interesting lore than the others. I rarely hear about Alliance politics. Jaina something something Aegwynn something something.

You got Lady Onyxia and a decent quest line for her in Vanilla. What more do you want. :D

Horde got to look for bloody Rexxar!


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: AcidCat on November 15, 2014, 05:41:40 PM
Well since I've finally been able to play today, I dig it so far. The Garrison stuff is more fun than I expected. The questing feels good, and the extra voice acting makes a difference. Just really glad to be somewhere other than Pandaria, the whole Chinese/Panda theme never fit with my idea of Warcraft, Draenor is so much better already.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Outlawedprod on November 15, 2014, 11:40:04 PM
The main moderator for the r/wow subreddit has made it private because he has been unable to login to the game.  Hilarious.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Fordel on November 16, 2014, 02:29:42 AM
There have been a few expansions that SHOULD have been Alliance centric, but managed not to be through Green Jesus and Alliance factions turning into neutral ones so Green Jesus could save them too.


The high points are probably Vanilla with the Onyxia chain and WotLK up to the Wrathgate event. After Wrathgate things just go stupid... or stupider I guess. The 'classic' Alliance feel/theme died with Bolvar basically.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lantyssa on November 16, 2014, 10:25:21 AM
Shame that the DDOS attack is now confirmed by Blizzard on Twitter to be... players trying to log in  :ye_gods:
Hahahaha.

Sad that I was right.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Soulflame on November 16, 2014, 11:04:35 AM
Look at it from their point of view.  It was a broadly distributed attack on their login servers.

People trying to log in is a kind of DDOS.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on November 16, 2014, 01:02:09 PM
It's just pathetic that they've moved so many people off the project and replaced them with incompetence. I know a guy that actually went to Wildstar to get off the projects that Blizzard was trying to move him to. That's how desperate he was.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Maven on November 16, 2014, 01:19:00 PM
I wouldn't blame anyone that wouldn't want to spend the rest of their life developing on the same project. It's the opposite of exciting. Cinematics team might enjoy the new challenges, but "maintenance" teams have a rough go of it. I'd be interested in the project turnover numbers, but fat chance getting those.

I'm not surprised their top talent moved off project or left the company, especially Pardo.

Edit: corrected statement


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: jakonovski on November 16, 2014, 07:56:09 PM
Shame that the DDOS attack is now confirmed by Blizzard on Twitter to be... players trying to log in  :ye_gods:

Can you provide a link? The whole DDoS thing is being regurgitated by dumb people as the reason for queues today.



Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on November 16, 2014, 08:35:25 PM
You're still getting queues?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ginaz on November 17, 2014, 01:31:03 AM
You're still getting queues?

Yup.  Several hours worth.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ironwood on November 17, 2014, 09:32:33 AM
So If you change specs, it rerolls your Perks ?

That's....awesome.

Not.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on November 17, 2014, 10:43:59 AM
No rolls, they're set per spec.

http://wowpedia.org/Draenor_Perk


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ironwood on November 17, 2014, 11:21:55 AM
Yes, and I'm telling you THAT'S NOT THE CASE.   :grin:

I don't know if it's a Monk bug or a powerlevel to 90 bug or what, but it happens and is repeatable for demo purposes.  Every time she switches from Windwalker to Brewmaster, it picks a different one.

It's kinda hilarious.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on November 17, 2014, 11:57:47 AM
Once you're 100 you have all the perks no matter what though right?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ironwood on November 17, 2014, 01:11:32 PM
...

Yes. What's your point ?

 :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lantyssa on November 17, 2014, 01:17:51 PM
As someone who doesn't have to listen to their wife bitch about it, I personally find it funny.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ginaz on November 17, 2014, 01:33:41 PM
Did my first Auchindoun  run yesterday.  We get to an area with groups of mobs on the platform where one of the bosses spawns, which prompts our uber l33t tank to say:

Tank: ok, listen up, stay behind me and kill the pyros first because they are faggots, and there's nothing I hate more in this world than faggots, so don't fuck this up :oh_i_see:

Oh, pugs... never change.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Fabricated on November 17, 2014, 02:15:38 PM
Did my first Auchindoun  run yesterday.  We get to an area with groups of mobs on the platform where one of the bosses spawns, which prompts our uber l33t tank to say:

Tank: ok, listen up, stay behind me and kill the pyros first because they are faggots, and there's nothing I hate more in this world than faggots, so don't fuck this up :oh_i_see:

Oh, pugs... never change.
That dude sounds pretty cool.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ironwood on November 17, 2014, 02:20:16 PM
That made me laugh.  I'd have let him die.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rasix on November 17, 2014, 02:20:36 PM
I'd strike a blow for equality and just wipe.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: jakonovski on November 17, 2014, 02:27:43 PM
4k queue on Monday night. The incompetence is palpable and I can already feel the tip of a clown shoe.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on November 17, 2014, 02:54:03 PM
4k queue on Monday night. The incompetence is palpable and I can already feel the tip of a clown shoe.

Chortle.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Zetor on November 17, 2014, 03:59:54 PM
Just checking in to confirm that the overarching story for WOD still sucks.

Yes, the story absolutely goes full Metzen at the end. In fact, it couldn't get more Metzen-y if it tried.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on November 17, 2014, 04:02:25 PM
Raise your hand if you didn't see that coming.

Nobody?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Nevermore on November 17, 2014, 04:04:27 PM
In fact, it couldn't get more Metzen-y if it tried.

Well, it could if they had put in an actual Metzen-cosplaying-as-Thrall model.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Hawkbit on November 17, 2014, 04:19:26 PM
4k queue on Monday night. The incompetence is palpable and I can already feel the tip of a clown shoe.

Chortle.

Most of my toons are on Earthen Ring Alliance and I haven't waited yet.  My Horde toon is on Emerald Dream and has a 4000 queue every time I try to log into that server.  It's really, really weird.  I'm not sure if server transfers would help, or if they've borked the auth servers for that cluster.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ginaz on November 17, 2014, 04:35:53 PM
Just checking in to confirm that the overarching story for WOD still sucks.

Yes, the story absolutely goes full Metzen at the end. In fact, it couldn't get more Metzen-y if it tried.

Without looking at the spoiler...let me guess...Green Jesus saves us all...again?

Edit: Read the spoiler. :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: kaid on November 17, 2014, 05:12:25 PM
So far the zone story lines have been pretty fun. The talador and shadowmoon valley zones have some pretty fun epic story line endings for them and have been quite fun and interesting. I imagine since I have not read the spoilers that thrall winds up saving everybody but at least all the lead up stuff so far has kept me well entertained.  I am curious to see the spires of arak zone as I walked into it and saw some giant spire death raying a forrest so interested in seeing what the crazy birds are up to.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on November 17, 2014, 05:18:33 PM
Just checking in to confirm that the overarching story for WOD still sucks.

Yes, the story absolutely goes full Metzen at the end. In fact, it couldn't get more Metzen-y if it tried.

Knew about this months ago when Bliz spoilered the in game vids.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Maven on November 17, 2014, 05:49:06 PM
In fact, it couldn't get more Metzen-y if it tried.

Well, it could if they had put in an actual Metzen-cosplaying-as-Thrall model.  :awesome_for_real:

I would pay good money to see that.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Malakili on November 17, 2014, 06:50:17 PM

Well, it could if they had put in an actual Metzen-cosplaying-as-Thrall model.  :awesome_for_real:

I would pay good money to see that.

Don't encourage him.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on November 17, 2014, 06:52:04 PM
Just checking in to confirm that the overarching story for WOD still sucks.



Is she really, or is it really some sinister plot of the
ed: quotes are not spoilers


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Zetor on November 18, 2014, 12:54:57 AM
Heh. You know, at this point it wouldn't surprise me at all.  :grin:

e: that said -- I actually kinda like the smaller (zone-level and hub-level) storylines in WOD. Maybe the designers were able to keep Metzen busy with writing this new chapter for his EPIC Thrall fanficsaga...


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ginaz on November 18, 2014, 01:46:59 AM
I have no doubt some sort of new Old God/Gods will emerge sometime in the near future.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: jakonovski on November 18, 2014, 02:48:47 PM
Welp, today's menu is instances crashing. I got in early enough after a restart to avoid queuing more than half an hour, but now my character is in instance limbo and won't load.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on November 18, 2014, 02:52:05 PM
And on queue, the apology: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/15269759060

tl;dr - Best xpac ever, but we goofed on server loads. Mea culpa, here's five free days of game time.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on November 18, 2014, 04:35:21 PM
So we get a public apology for this expansion, but not Cataclysm.

 :mob:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: jakonovski on November 18, 2014, 04:41:00 PM
Ugh, the charm's wearing off. Once again they've nailed that "warrior gets worse as you gain levels" feeling.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Zetor on November 18, 2014, 04:58:09 PM
At least you're not an ele shaman.  :awesome_for_real:

Seriously though, warrior dps specs are pretty bad right now. Best bet is to level as prot: round up giant mob clusters, thunderclap+shockwave+bladestorm them down, spam Victory Rush and Revenge on survivors, finish with full HP. As a bonus, gladiator stance (level 100 prot talent) is one of the strongest DPS specs currently.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ingmar on November 18, 2014, 05:37:07 PM
So we get a public apology for this expansion, but not Cataclysm.

 :mob:

 :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on November 18, 2014, 06:47:59 PM
I knew you'd get it.  :grin:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on November 18, 2014, 07:29:19 PM
Ugh, the charm's wearing off. Once again they've nailed that "warrior gets worse as you gain levels" feeling.

This is not new. Then as your iLevel rises you get uber again.  Just like DKs and Hunters are great at low item levels and suck at scaling. This was an admitted design intent back in WOTLK/ early Cata and I never saw them say it was changed.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ginaz on November 19, 2014, 02:59:48 AM
Looks like the Que Monster has been slain.  No trouble getting in yesterday or today.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: jakonovski on November 19, 2014, 06:33:32 AM
Ugh, the charm's wearing off. Once again they've nailed that "warrior gets worse as you gain levels" feeling.

This is not new. Then as your iLevel rises you get uber again.  Just like DKs and Hunters are great at low item levels and suck at scaling. This was an admitted design intent back in WOTLK/ early Cata and I never saw them say it was changed.

Could be, but annoying gameplay is a really bad design goal.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: kaid on November 19, 2014, 09:57:05 AM
Ugh, the charm's wearing off. Once again they've nailed that "warrior gets worse as you gain levels" feeling.

This is not new. Then as your iLevel rises you get uber again.  Just like DKs and Hunters are great at low item levels and suck at scaling. This was an admitted design intent back in WOTLK/ early Cata and I never saw them say it was changed.

Could be, but annoying gameplay is a really bad design goal.

Yup its an odd design choice you basically start at the bottom of a new expansion really powerful for that expansion then that tails off and as you near max level you feel a bit weaker only to go beast mode as soon as you start picking up some raid gear. This is pretty much how its been working for the last three or four expansions so I tend to just ignore it. You push through that minor wall fast enough that its pretty quickly forgotten.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: jakonovski on November 19, 2014, 10:52:45 AM
It sucks extra bad for me because I take a long time leveling these days. TBC was the last time I was able to poopsock properly.

edit: now it randomly started giving me warnings about my game time running out in 30 minutes. Not only do I have a fresh sub, the 5 day extension should be in effect. Legendary clownshoes.

edit2: also now that I've had a chance to look at it, what the hell is wrong with crafting? Insane amounts of cooldown mats to produce a shitty axe? What's next, insert credit card for coin doubler?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Maven on November 19, 2014, 02:32:17 PM
Just checking in to confirm that the overarching story for WOD still sucks.




Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Fordel on November 19, 2014, 03:45:55 PM
We bitched about it in all of those expansions too. The removal of player agency.


The fact it keeps being Green Jesus just makes it even more intolerable.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: SurfD on November 19, 2014, 06:45:49 PM
Ugh, the charm's wearing off. Once again they've nailed that "warrior gets worse as you gain levels" feeling.

This is not new. Then as your iLevel rises you get uber again.  Just like DKs and Hunters are great at low item levels and suck at scaling. This was an admitted design intent back in WOTLK/ early Cata and I never saw them say it was changed.

Could be, but annoying gameplay is a really bad design goal.

Yup its an odd design choice you basically start at the bottom of a new expansion really powerful for that expansion then that tails off and as you near max level you feel a bit weaker only to go beast mode as soon as you start picking up some raid gear. This is pretty much how its been working for the last three or four expansions so I tend to just ignore it. You push through that minor wall fast enough that its pretty quickly forgotten.
It literally has done that every expantion in history.   It is a direct side effect of your secondary stat effectiveness being weighted against your character level.   if you have 5000 haste at level 90 and that equals 40% haste, then the instant you ding 91, your 5000 haste now equals 35% haste.  And since most people going into a new expantion are decked out in decently hefty raid gear that means you dont start picking up actual upgrades untill about half way through the new expantion content, meaning that you start the new content feeling like a tiny god, but by time you start finding your first upgrade, your increase in level has turned your god like stats into wet noodles.   I remember when Cata first came out, and my boomkin had something like 40% crit and 50% haste, and by time I found my first upgrade I had leveled down to around 15% crit and 20% haste, which yes, definately does make you feel worse till you can begin the build up process again and start fully upgrading.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ingmar on November 19, 2014, 10:24:05 PM
Just checking in to confirm that the overarching story for WOD still sucks.



Um, are you under the impression that people *didn't* complain about Tirion stealing the kill on LK? Because I assure you, there was a *ton* of complaining about that.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Azazel on November 20, 2014, 02:54:25 AM
New guy is new. Shows newness.  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on November 20, 2014, 08:09:33 AM
We bitched about it in all of those expansions too. The removal of player agency.


The fact it keeps being Green Jesus just makes it even more intolerable.

I don't think he was here for that. Maybe I'm wrong.

But good lord, yes. The amount of wailing over the LK battle was cacophonous. So much so that it was THE fight which started the debate on how WoW's story was moving beyond the players. The other nail in the coffin was Cairne perishing in some dumbass novel, but not the game. When they killed off a major character in an outside book, that was the turning point for many players when it came to Metzen.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Fordel on November 20, 2014, 09:50:02 AM
I forgot Cairne even died, poor dumb cow man.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on November 20, 2014, 09:50:44 AM
Just checking in to confirm that the overarching story for WOD still sucks.

In fact, it couldn't get more Metzen-y if it tried.

I want to place this back under the microscope for a moment. They had the same concept and execution with the Lich King boss battle. But we're being critical here because it's Green Jesus and Metzen's persona non grata. Did Deathwing and whomever was the big bad in Pandaria have similar ends?


Why spoiler it?

Yes to Deathwing. You were a distraction for Green Jesus to become UBERGREEN JESUS as the Aspects all sacrificed their immortality for THE ONE TRUE GOD-ORC to beat Deathwing. If the players were NPCs we'd all have been cannon fodder that died and been pointless.

Pandaria you beat-down Garrosh, then there's a face-off between Vol'Jin and King Saiyn before they haul Garrosh off. Thrall has a part somewhere in the whole thing, but I only did the end raid once and didn't read any of the shit lore until I came back at the 6.0 patch, so I can't speak clearly on it.

But good lord, yes. The amount of wailing over the LK battle was cacophonous. So much so that it was THE fight which started the debate on how WoW's story was moving beyond the players. The other nail in the coffin was Cairne perishing in some dumbass novel, but not the game. When they killed off a major character in an outside book, that was the turning point for many players when it came to Metzen.

Yep. And the removal of key plot points to books (Hey, why is Jaina a crazy mo-fo now with white hair?) means folks who aren't uber fanboys just stop caring at all.  Granted, Star Wars has shown that this type of pandering to the 1-2% of fans can go on for a LONG ASS TIME and generate so much money that the creators just don't give a fuck.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on November 21, 2014, 03:43:41 AM
Bitch thread is for bitching, yeah?  :awesome_for_real:

So Bliz announced last night that, apparently, there's been a huge, HUGE number of complaints about the new personal loot system, and that they're reverting to Need/Greed for random dungeon runs.

So I guess that means I'm not running random dungeons anymore. For over 10 years, I've dealt with the fuck shit of scrub players looting gear they either can't use or don't need. They finally put in a system that removed those scrubs from the equation, and now they're going back to the old in less than a week since launch.

The B.net forums and a few other places are on fire about this. So much so that one wonders where the people that complained about the new system are, and if they even exist. One theory is that the new system worked so well that Blizzard was afraid of people gearing up too quickly, but rather than coming forward and saying such, they went with the "blame the scrubs" strategy. Which of course works, but it's still bullshit.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ironwood on November 21, 2014, 04:36:53 AM
WHAT THE FUCK ?

No, that's really, really, really mental.  That system was brilliance and worked great.  Who The Fuck was complaining ?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Azuredream on November 21, 2014, 04:43:28 AM
Once you give it to people you can't take it back without enormous backlash.

Quote
While the personal loot system was successful in eliminating drops that weren’t usable by anyone in the group, and reducing loot contention in some cases, we’ve also heard a significant amount of player feedback about how the system feels unrewarding and unsatisfying.

In response to these concerns, we are reverting the default loot method in Dungeon Finder back to Need Before Greed. As always, players who queue with a full premade group may change group loot settings, and may use Personal loot or any other method if they so prefer. We will be evaluating how to better present and structure dungeon personal loot, and hope to re-introduce the system in the future.

Significant player feedback? Yeah, okay. It's amazing to me that it now works in reverse of how it should. The pre-made group won't have the DPS roll on tank gear and thus needs personal loot less than the random group-finder does, yet you can only enable personal loot in the pre-made. Awesome.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ironwood on November 21, 2014, 04:52:56 AM
The screaming on the forums is delicious.

Also, given they have 'greyed out' stats now, it's just So, So, So much worse to use a N/G system.

Thank fuck the wife has 4 good mates who regularly run.  Because this would make me stabby.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on November 21, 2014, 07:18:00 AM
Yeah, pre-made groups for me until they unfix what they "fixed". I mean, if they're gonna do N/G, then go all the way with it and bring back static loot. The new "shared and random roll stats" loot system was designed for Personal Loot.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ironwood on November 21, 2014, 07:22:42 AM
I can't get my head around it at all.

It's so fucking ludicrous that it MUST be to stop people gearing up faster.

It must be.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on November 21, 2014, 07:29:12 AM
And over on Twitter: https://twitter.com/Rygarius/status/535670757595312129

Quote
Back from the departmental function. Response to dungeon loot mode change was...a surprise. I've extended thread cap.

Ya think? I mean, were we supposed to flood the forums over the last week about how awesome the new system was or something? Good lord...


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ironwood on November 21, 2014, 08:47:12 AM
IT SHOULDN'T BE A SURPRISE, YOU UTTER CUNT.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rendakor on November 21, 2014, 09:13:08 AM
What was the new loot system?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on November 21, 2014, 09:15:13 AM
Nobody should be surprised that this team doesn't get it. Nobody.

That being said, you can't have nice things you walking fucking wallets. Welcome to 2004.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ironwood on November 21, 2014, 09:19:34 AM
What was the new loot system?

You had a chance to get shit from the loot table quietly. If you didn't, you got cash.  You could also use tokens to get a second go.  It worked rather well.  I didn't know they'd put it into 5 mans, but it was such a good system, it wouldn't have surprised me.

Instead, we're back to some fucking teenage hunter rolling on your INT gear.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: kaid on November 21, 2014, 10:18:30 AM
I think it would have been fine the way it was if it was maybe a bit more obvious like it is in LFR what you got from the boss. As it was sometimes if you did not notice the few extra gold it was like you killed a boss and it felt like it did not drop anything. If they had just used the LFR interface that gave you the pop up showing the cash/item you got from boss nobody would have complained to get it changed back to the bad old way.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: apocrypha on November 21, 2014, 10:19:06 AM
I wonder if the rash of tickets/complaints about the personal loot system were from people who didn't understand what had happened and just thought they weren't seeing any loot from the bosses all of a sudden?

Was the new change made really clear in-game or did you need to read forums/websites/patch notes etc?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on November 21, 2014, 10:24:34 AM
What the scrubs don't understand is that they have just as much of a chance of getting loot under Personal as they did with N/G. In fact, with Personal loot removing the chance that said scrubs/noobs needing on stuff that they don't need, and that the chance exists for all players involved to get something just for them, the chances were even higher.

I can see how some players may get bent on a string of no loot drops. Guess what? Sometimes that how the dice roll. You deal with it and truck on. Welcome to my '00s of playing in which I went WEEKS without getting loot due to how things were back in the day.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on November 21, 2014, 10:26:03 AM
I wonder if the rash of tickets/complaints about the personal loot system were from people who didn't understand what had happened and just thought they weren't seeing any loot from the bosses all of a sudden?

Was the new change made really clear in-game or did you need to read forums/websites/patch notes etc?

Admittedly, no, the changes were not made clear. Again, that's on Blizzard to educate the masses, not punish them for the handful of scrub players freaking out over a perfectly good system.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ginaz on November 21, 2014, 12:54:02 PM
I really like the new loot system.  I hope they don't change it.  Also, REALLY like how you can have some of your loot randomly improve.  It's nice seeing an ok green quest reward transform into an epic.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on November 21, 2014, 02:59:11 PM
Update: Apparently setting the forum on fire does work from time to time.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/15355105387?page=127#2531

tl;dr - Fuck, you guys like you some personal loot. You can have it back, and we'll even make the last boss guarantee a drop for everyone.

 :drill:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Paelos on November 21, 2014, 03:07:37 PM
Quote
We heard from sources both within our team and the community that the experience of defeating a boss and no ceremony beyond three gold on its corpse, or the possibility of finishing an entire dungeon without seeing any items, felt flat and even a bit broken.

Mmmhmmm. I'm willing to bet that very few people in the "community" complained. Some knobs inside the team thought people would gear too fast. Then they got called out en masse when the real community showed up.

Shit like this doesn't happen when a facet of the "community" complains. They ignore almost everything small parts of the real community wants for long periods of time. They wouldn't kneejerk the change in the first place unless it came internally.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: apocrypha on November 21, 2014, 03:34:36 PM
What the scrubs don't understand

scrubs/noobs needing on stuff that they don't need

Guess what? Sometimes that how the dice roll. You deal with it and truck on. Welcome to my '00s of playing in which I went WEEKS without getting loot due to how things were back in the day.

handful of scrub players freaking out

Are you sure you shouldn't be playing Wildstar?  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: luckton on November 21, 2014, 03:53:12 PM
 :awesome_for_real:



Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Fordel on November 21, 2014, 06:10:04 PM
Again, this is the same company that was shocked... SHOCKED, to learn that people want to customize their appearance.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: March on November 24, 2014, 10:58:45 AM
Goodness gracious, but these folks sure do like controlling me like a puppet.  Made it to Lvl 92 and a Lvl 2 garrison and have had the unpleasant experience of multiple forced quests... I suppose this is what some people call "good" questing, but I think we already have a term for it: Kidnapping.  What was strange was that I couldn't really "fail" the quest, but every time I died, I had to resurrect in the "quest" and do it again... with the boss' HP reset to 100%.  I felt a little bit naughty like I was being punished until I got it right.  I recognize that some of you (inexplicably) pay attention to the story, but I can say with 100% confidence that I have no idea and no interest in whatever nonsense they trapped me in... just that I was not pleased to be trapped.

Oh well... I suppose it must appeal to someone, just not me.  On the plus side, I'm rather liking the concept of Garrisons, but can't tell if I like it only because I'm in the hand-holding phase and getting lots of dings and easy upgrades, or if I will hate it once the reality of the grind is exposed?  I do wish I could bring my companions out into the world 100% of the time... they should steal from Marvel 2015 and let you use your companions in 3 modes: Pet(-ish), summonable, passive... then they should go GW1 and let me build a dungeon group (if only GW2 had gone GW1).  Or, at a minimum, SWTOR style 2+ hard zones for the Pet enabled. 

Having spent a decade with Blizzard/WoW, I can say with some confidence that much of what they do is, not so much smoke and mirrors, as empty space and blurry graphics - my Garrison at level 2 is freakin' enormous... I mean, Noveau Riche big; big because I can, not because its good.

P.S. Combat has regressed from being some sort of input game into practicing Piano... a lot like their story/questing, it isn't me playing so much as them playing me.  I've tried three of the new toons (Shaman, Druid, Monk) and I cant find the fun at all in basic PvE combat - and not from boring Diku PvE, but from shitty combat mechanics that are not nearly as fun as they were 10-years ago... that's what amazes me.  Thanks a lot Obama.  (or is it really PvP and eSport nonesense?).

I'm a filthy casual, but if one were to chart the trajectory of WoW we're just a few expansions away from total devolution into a chose-your-adventure-Sim  If you would like to help to poor blue people, press 1.  {movie} *Ding* Loot.  Ugh. 


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Jeff Kelly on November 25, 2014, 01:16:51 PM
I've been out for a few years so excuse my question but what people here are saying is that after all these years Blizzard had finally decided to scrap the mindbogglingly infuriating need/greed system for something more sensible and they've now decided to roll that back because "people didn't find it rewarding enough?"

They removed the biggest source of guild drama and bitching on the forums and they rolled it back? And they were surprised that people didn't like it? Could Blizzard please give me the names of the people that didn't find it "rewarding" enough so that Ironwood and I can smack some sense into them?

Need/Greed was by and far the single biggest source of drama, whinging, internet fucktardery and pettiness. It was the reason for guild breakups and people bitching in general and led to pointless and never-ending debates about whether or not somebody should roll need or greed on an item and exactly why that person was a cunt for doing it.

If they've found something better (hell even just having people duke it out "hunger games style" would be better) they should stick to it and need/greed should stay dead and buried and good riddance.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Mithas on November 25, 2014, 01:29:29 PM
Their personal loot system was only for LFR and LFD. Party and raid leaders in groups could still set whatever they wanted. So it wouldn't have gotten rid of guild drama, but it did get rid of some of the dungeon finder drama.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Jeff Kelly on November 25, 2014, 01:41:32 PM
That alone will mean that I'll be firmly inside the camp of "bring it back ASAP KTHX BYE" crowd, even though I never experienced it first hand.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Jeff Kelly on December 01, 2014, 10:42:50 AM
I made a very bad personal decision yesterday and thought it would be a good idea to browse the official forums. So much stupidity should in theory achive critical mass and generate a singularity of stupidity.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Nebu on December 01, 2014, 12:41:37 PM
So... I bought this expansion and have been playing a bit (level 94 now). 

On the bright side, it's a very well made expansion that is arguably better than panda land.  Sadly, I am either burned out on MMO's or just not a fan of WoW any more.  I enjoyed SWTOR, GW2, and the Secret World far more. 


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: jakonovski on December 01, 2014, 04:37:20 PM
Jeez, Arms warrior sucks ass even at 100. I can't believe I have to wait to get hit for rage again. Prolly going to let the subscription lapse, can't really get into the combat system anymore.



Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: kaid on December 01, 2014, 05:04:55 PM
For warriors at 100 at least until the next teirs of gear come out I almost have to recommend going gladiator stance for DPS. Fury is in theory fine but its rotation does not flow very well until you get around +40% crit chance as your procs are way to sporadic. Arms suffers from a ungodly boring "rotation" if what they have can even be called that and tends to be a bit rage starved at the wrong times. Again once gearing numbers start cranking up much of that will go away although I am not sure even that will make them play any better. I think they will wind up in 6.1 getting overpower back or something very similar to it so you have something to do thats low rage cost and single target. Having whirl wind as your main filler has all sorts of unintended negative consequences.

Gladiator stance gives you full ability to use your tanking gear to beat the living shit out of things. Even after taking its nerf its still plenty fine for pure damage and has really good survivability while doing that high damage making it amazingly awesomesauce to solo with or pvp with.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: jakonovski on December 01, 2014, 05:19:21 PM
Yah, I know everyone plays Prot with gladiator stance. It's just that I'm not going to start compromising in a game that still asks $15 per month in this day and age. I'll still have time to see all the zones with their terrible lore (srsly, it's so much worse than I thought), and GarrisonVille is the inverse of gameplay anyway.



Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on December 01, 2014, 06:19:32 PM
Blood DKs, Prot Warriors and Prot Pallys are doing *RIDICULOUS* amounts of AOE damage right now.  It's crazy-town and I keep expecting nerfs because Tanks are hitting 2-3x pure DPS class AOE numbers.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: jakonovski on December 02, 2014, 03:07:37 PM
What the fuck is up with first aid requiring fishing? First aid is mandatory for warriors, yet I have no intention of grinding fishing from zero. It's like they don't even want you to have fun with all these newly discovered ways to stab cock.



Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: kaid on December 02, 2014, 03:55:59 PM
Actually first aid really isn't needed much any more for warriors but it is a bit of a head scratcher choice. For the most part my talented version of victory rush is enough to keep me going all day without having to eat or do anything in particular to heal up. Basically the first aid things are potions used like the old healing potions. The weirder thing about it is it basically steals that niche from alchemists which was always a semi decent seller.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: jakonovski on December 02, 2014, 04:21:10 PM
What do alchemists do then? Buff potions?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: SurfD on December 03, 2014, 01:48:20 AM
What do alchemists do then? Buff potions?
If the new first aid items are substitute Healing Pots, then Alchemy would still do Flasks and Stat potions (and i guess mana potions, unless First Aid got those too).   


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: kaid on December 03, 2014, 01:41:00 PM
Yup pretty much flask and stat potions and I think rejuv potions which are health and mana but pure health potions appear to be all first aid now. Also apparently alchemy uses a lot more fishing resources than it previously needed as well.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: SurfD on December 03, 2014, 11:17:10 PM
Yup pretty much flask and stat potions and I think rejuv potions which are health and mana but pure health potions appear to be all first aid now. Also apparently alchemy uses a lot more fishing resources than it previously needed as well.
yeah, they really brought back the "resource shuffle" with crafting this expac.  Nearly every crafting profession requires materials from almost every gathering profession for some of their stuff.   All the crafted armor requires some quantity of Leather / Ore / Fur for certain pieces.  Jewlcrafting requires herbs for certain gems.  Almost all potions require different fishing componenets.  Cant speak for Blacksmithing / Scribe yet, but I imagine something similar going on there also.

of course, since your garrison supplies you with more herbs / minerals then you would reasonably need due to the crafting time gates, i guess this isnt really a problem, but It still throws you a curve if you are not expecting it.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Hutch on December 04, 2014, 09:41:48 PM
Fucking Blizzard isn't going to give us flight in 6.1, either. (http://www.wowhead.com/news=244914/highlights-from-blizzards-warlords-of-draenor-reddit-ama-12-4-hotfixes#no-flying-for-6-1)

(link goes to Wowhead's summary of today's Blizzard AMA)

I swear to Christ, what bug crawled up their guts and gave them the idea that their players hate flying?

Assholes.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rendakor on December 04, 2014, 11:16:30 PM
That just makes it easier not to resub!


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Fordel on December 05, 2014, 12:05:47 AM
Blood DKs, Prot Warriors and Prot Pallys are doing *RIDICULOUS* amounts of AOE damage right now.  It's crazy-town and I keep expecting nerfs because Tanks are hitting 2-3x pure DPS class AOE numbers.

DPS or Damage done? Back in the day my Prot Pally would easily win the damage done meter in any dungeon but that didn't mean she was DPSing shit down.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Zetor on December 05, 2014, 12:32:39 AM
FWIW my prot warrior was doing more DPS while questing than my ele shaman... even on single targets. I think that says more about ele shamans than prot warriors, though.  :grin:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Azazel on December 06, 2014, 07:46:52 AM
That just makes it easier not to resub!

This.

Dickheads.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: jakonovski on December 06, 2014, 08:32:17 AM
I won't miss flying because none of the content takes advantage of it.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on December 06, 2014, 08:47:29 AM
Flying can go die in a fire, wow is just not a game that benefits from it.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Azuredream on December 06, 2014, 09:46:41 AM
I don't know about 'benefit.' The word I use is 'fun.' Flying is fun. Humping the terrain trying to go over a ledge, or trying to go in straight line to some place on my map only to find I'm at the completely wrong elevation and have to spend 5 minutes going around is Not Fun.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Jeff Kelly on December 06, 2014, 10:21:49 AM
Or as it is in Tarandor, realizing that the road - which is why pretty much the shortest way - runs right through an Alliance outpost and the onoy way around adds minutes to your travel time.

Seriously who thought that was a good idea?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Selby on December 06, 2014, 11:02:50 AM
Seriously who thought that was a good idea?
Sounds like you're not having fun the right way... ;-)


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Hutch on December 06, 2014, 05:43:15 PM
Flying can go die in a fire, wow is just not a game that benefits from it.

Are you subscribed and playing right now? Or is this just trolling par for the course.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Jeff Kelly on December 06, 2014, 06:49:06 PM
I can see why flying might be problematic. I've leveled a toon from 1 to 100 and flying pretty much meant that I didn't care about the zones, quests or content at all. Select quests, fly straight to the objective, kill stuff and fly straight back to the quest giver. Don't care about the content.

That being said mountain hugging, backtracking, getting stuck and constantly being thrown off by mobs that I then have to kill to be able to continue to my objective is fucking annoying.

Arrak is is the bane of my existence. Nagrand at least can be traversed by mount easily. The blade spires in Arrak are just bad though




Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on December 06, 2014, 06:50:13 PM
Flying can go die in a fire, wow is just not a game that benefits from it.

Are you subscribed and playing right now? Or is this just trolling par for the course.


Yes and flying is not meant to be in a game like wow.  I get that it's fun and I don't disagree but the structure of THIS game, is not right for it.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: jakonovski on December 06, 2014, 07:05:31 PM
Just realized the level 100 jungle zone is blocked off, ie. not done. No wonder you can't fly.




Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: jakonovski on December 07, 2014, 06:53:36 AM
Reading various forum posts, garrison campaigns and invasions are dependent on how much dailies you grind. So that's another reason to ditch this thing.

Blizzard really put some effort on putting up a facade, but this is just cockstabbing everywhere once you hit 100. And not much content.

edit: looks like the crystal dailies from the garrison have the old kind of mob and activated item tagging, ie. whoever gets there first gets stuff, nobody else gets anything. Even elite mobs are like this. It's pretty incredible how fast this expansion crumbles after you hit max level.
 



Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Azazel on December 07, 2014, 06:58:19 AM
Yes and flying is not meant to be in a game like wow.  I get that it's fun and I don't disagree but the structure of THIS game, is not right for it.

Except that it's been part of the game for longer than it's been not part of the game at this point, including all of the bits that seem to be looked back at the most favourably so I'll just have to say that you're not only wrong, but demonstratively so and continue to vote with my dollars.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on December 07, 2014, 11:57:35 AM
Yes and flying is not meant to be in a game like wow.  I get that it's fun and I don't disagree but the structure of THIS game, is not right for it.

Except that it's been part of the game for longer than it's been not part of the game at this point, including all of the bits that seem to be looked back at the most favourably so I'll just have to say that you're not only wrong, but demonstratively so and continue to vote with my dollars.

Good for you! You vote with those dollars and you bitch in an online forum but guess what, for the most part? People playing the game right now that are having fun? They don't give a shit. 

Flying as a feature never meshes well with the structure of an open world mmo where mobs/players/nodes/objectives are all targets on the ground that can be dive bombed.  It's incredibly fun to soar around in the skies, I get that and blizzard gets that, which is why it's been in for so long.  Unfortunately it cheapens just about every aspect of this big open world they spent time creating because no one is ever in it or if they are its only one time during leveling.  I don't see how hard it is to grasp that just because one thing is fun doesn't mean it needs to be included or can actually make a finished product worse for it.  You don't add every tasty ingredient to a meal, you don't add every possible feature to a video game because while that cherry on top might be tasty, it doesn't exactly work in a lasagna.

For the last two expansions, the world in the world of warcraft was a ghost town and when you did see people it was in dungeons or in whatever main town there was.  Even if it wasn't empty it FELT empty and that sort of thing is bad for any mmo.  Turning the world the game is based on into nothing more than a glorified wallpaper and turning the actual game into little more than a lobby for instances is not a good strategy for retention.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Azuredream on December 07, 2014, 12:01:35 PM
For the last two expansions, the world in the world of warcraft was a ghost town and when you did see people it was in dungeons or in whatever main town there was.  Even if it wasn't empty it FELT empty and that sort of thing is bad for any mmo.  Turning the world the game is based on into nothing more than a glorified wallpaper and turning the actual game into little more than a lobby for instances is not a good strategy for retention.

But the world is still empty. How has that changed? You don't have to run to instances. Once you collect all the shinies you never visit the zones again except for dailies. And nobody can see you in your garrison so you're all alone there usually. Everybody chilling out in SW/Ashran counts as a 'world' now?

And yes I am subbed. And I do agree that flying isn't THAT big of a deal since obviously I have fun with the game regardless, but I still wish it was in the game.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Zetor on December 07, 2014, 04:13:46 PM
The 'tricky' secrets/treasures hidden behind jumping puzzles and such (f'rex in Nagrand) can already be trivialized by using Aviana's Feather, an infinite-use item from one of the inn quests (10min cooldown). It launches you high into the air and then deploys a glider for 2min, giving you ~720% flight speed. The same item also makes avoiding ganks trivial, so the "flying kills world pvp" argument doesn't hold much water.

Also, if you have a gnome/goblin workshop, you can get copies of the above item (on shorter cooldowns) ever so often, as well as a very fast rocket that actually works as a flying mount for 1 min (then it goes boom). Engineers can also use gliders and craft glider kits for non-engineers that work like ghetto flying mounts in some areas.

So yeah, I think they'll add flying mounts back in before the end of the xpac. The lorelol explanation for it can't be any worse than the end of the main storyline, either...  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Jeff Kelly on December 08, 2014, 05:23:13 AM
Fuck the apexis crystal dailies. Since everybody and their alts is doing them the quest zones look like Stormwind during rush hour and all spawn points are so heavily camped that it will zake you hours to finish them up.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Nebu on December 08, 2014, 09:39:42 AM
Fuck the apexis crystal dailies. Since everybody and their alts is doing them the quest zones look like Stormwind during rush hour and all spawn points are so heavily camped that it will zake you hours to finish them up.

I play on a pvp server.  That solves the problem nicely!  :grin:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ironwood on December 08, 2014, 09:41:11 AM
My PvP mate keeps grouping with me so he can jump onto my server and not get ganked.

This, to me, defeats the object of the exercise...


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: kaid on December 08, 2014, 02:32:25 PM
Fuck the apexis crystal dailies. Since everybody and their alts is doing them the quest zones look like Stormwind during rush hour and all spawn points are so heavily camped that it will zake you hours to finish them up.

It is weirdly like this. Saturday I had blackrock roost or whatever its called in shadowmoon and it was like 100% camped people just sitting on spawn nodes. On sunday doing the daily again there were like 2 of us there with the whole island to ourselves and it took me 10 minutes to punch it out. I have not been minding the daily apexis stuff yet as it does not take me long to bang them out and its a good excuse to work on my reputations without going to ape working on it.

I much prefer the guild campaign things for doing this kind of content as those are a lot more interesting than the normal apexis run around and slaughter stuff quests.

I hope they add in some other way to gain the rep needed for the trading post cause grinding that shit is kinda awful.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: SurfD on December 08, 2014, 05:27:55 PM
I have never yet had to spend more then about 15 minutes tops doing an apexis daily run:
- Grab quest
- Get to zone
- Check Groupfinder tool for group
- Join group
- kill shit
- Hearth to garrison

Half the time I spend almost as much time trying to safely get to the group I just joined as I do finishing the quest.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Zephyr on December 08, 2014, 07:48:21 PM
I have never yet had to spend more then about 15 minutes tops doing an apexis daily run:
- Grab quest
- Get to zone
- Check Groupfinder tool for group
- Join group
- kill shit
- Hearth to garrison

Half the time I spend almost as much time trying to safely get to the group I just joined as I do finishing the quest.

Same for me.  Quicker to grab the group quest and use group finder than to try to do the 800 crystal quest solo.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on December 08, 2014, 08:59:32 PM
The new LFG finder is so much better than people think.  its a very under advertised feature but it works.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Jeff Kelly on December 09, 2014, 03:25:48 AM
under advertised? as in you won't even know it exists if you don't read patch notes?

They should have made a bigger deal out of it.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Mithas on December 09, 2014, 09:16:18 AM
I just discovered it the other day. I knew it was there, but assumed it wasn't very good. Finding a group has never been easier plus it is cross server!


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ironwood on December 09, 2014, 09:25:14 AM
I see....

Or I do now anyway...


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Zetor on December 09, 2014, 12:19:37 PM
They made a blog post or something... 3 months before WOD's release. I'm sure their marketing department found it to be the best time slot to spread the word as far as possible :why_so_serious:

link: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/15200760/premade-groups-looking-for-adventure-8-13-2014


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Jeff Kelly on December 09, 2014, 06:55:39 PM
Lag just ate my +100 fishing rod during the fishing daily. Average ticket answer time 4 days 10 hours...

[edit: never mind should have read the tool tip]


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ironwood on December 10, 2014, 05:22:05 AM
The Once a Month Item Recovery Service is EXCELLENT.

No sarcasm here.  It's really a good thing.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Azazel on December 11, 2014, 06:14:03 AM
Good for you! You vote with those dollars and you bitch in an online forum but guess what, for the most part? People playing the game right now that are having fun? They don't give a shit. 

Flying as a feature never meshes well with the structure of an open world mmo where mobs/players/nodes/objectives are all targets on the ground that can be dive bombed.  It's incredibly fun to soar around in the skies, I get that and blizzard gets that, which is why it's been in for so long.  Unfortunately it cheapens just about every aspect of this big open world they spent time creating because no one is ever in it or if they are its only one time during leveling.  I don't see how hard it is to grasp that just because one thing is fun doesn't mean it needs to be included or can actually make a finished product worse for it.  You don't add every tasty ingredient to a meal, you don't add every possible feature to a video game because while that cherry on top might be tasty, it doesn't exactly work in a lasagna.

For the last two expansions, the world in the world of warcraft was a ghost town and when you did see people it was in dungeons or in whatever main town there was.  Even if it wasn't empty it FELT empty and that sort of thing is bad for any mmo.  Turning the world the game is based on into nothing more than a glorified wallpaper and turning the actual game into little more than a lobby for instances is not a good strategy for retention.

 :facepalm:


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Von Douchemore on December 11, 2014, 10:43:34 AM
<- Playing right now and approve Lakov's stance on flying.

WoD is pretty fun so far. Garrison invasions aren't hard to trigger (also, you wouldn't want more than one per week, since you only get the rewards once per week too). My only gripe is that they kinda destroyed/oversimplified professions with the garrison buildings. Alchemy used to be great, now the only perk of being one is a 620 trinket and being able to craft slightly better flasks. Don't even mention transmutes.



Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: SurfD on December 11, 2014, 02:31:27 PM
<- Playing right now and approve Lakov's stance on flying.

WoD is pretty fun so far. Garrison invasions aren't hard to trigger (also, you wouldn't want more than one per week, since you only get the rewards once per week too). My only gripe is that they kinda destroyed/oversimplified professions with the garrison buildings. Alchemy used to be great, now the only perk of being one is a 620 trinket and being able to craft slightly better flasks. Don't even mention transmutes.
Word in one of the blue posts is that blizz realizes that they kind of screwed the pooch on alchemy (as mentioned, Xmute spec is utterly useles at the moment), and have some fixes in the works, including a possible re-introduction of the special alchemy trinkets and other love. 


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Jeff Kelly on December 12, 2014, 04:46:57 AM
I still experience lots of lags while playing. Any word on when this will be fixed?


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: SurfD on December 12, 2014, 05:57:17 AM
So, I discovered something the hard way on my main, which I will not repeat on my alts.

- Once your followers level up to 100, you start recieving level 100 missions, and also gain the ability to use Upgrade kits on them to increase their "ilevel".
- DO NOT UPGRADE any follower past their base starting iLevel untill you have A) A whole bunch of rare or epic followers, and B) enough upgrade kits to upgrade Several (like 6+) at once to the next Ilevel bracket.
- The reason for this is that the instant any one follower is upgraded into the next bracket (615 / 630 / 645) you start getting missions for that bracket.

I made the stupid mistake of burning a whole bunch of upgrade kits on one of my epic followers (pumped her up to 645), and now I have been forced to sit there and watch at least a half dozen level 630 missions decay because I simply dont have anyone else with a high enough iLevel to run them (an iLevel 600 follower counts as "completely ineffective" on ilevel 615 missions, and "partially effective" if they are 607).   Lost out on a possible iLevel 645 shoulder and neck token due to that.

The worst part is that many of the ilevel 615+ missions also are the types with 4 or 5 abilities to counter, and my main was a bit unlucky with the rolls and only pulled 1 epic follower upgrade (as opposed to my hunter alt, who has FIVE at the moment, and is still only 97...)

So basicly, if you want to min-max your garrison mission returns, save all your Upgrade kits untill you have several Epic and Rare followers at level 100 (preferably with at least one of each ability counter), and then try to upgrade the whole group at once to 615, then 630 etc.

Sadly, I have also had shit luck with the upgrade kits, and half my standing team is currently sitting at ilevel 607 because I have armor kits coming out of my ass, but no weapon kits at all.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Jeff Kelly on December 12, 2014, 06:29:25 AM
The whole mission design needs work.

I have an absolute overabundance of missions that favour a certain counter and very few for others. Thats why I have a bunch of Level 100 followers but also a few Level 94. The higher the average level of the followers the more missions with higher levels you get and the less likely it is for low level followers to catch up because they drag win percentages down. Especially since you need to or three counters to have any chance of winning.

So those followers only have access to fewer missions with less XP and take much longer to catch up.

My Vivian is still Level 95 because I get no missions in the Level bracket and with the kind of abilities she might be useful for.

Also what you get does no longer match the time required. It#s one thing if you get 30 garrison resources on a 1.5 hour mission it's totally another to get 50 on a 10 hour 3 follower one. At least give me more salvage or something.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Ironwood on December 12, 2014, 06:29:40 AM
Salvage Yard and Barracks will help with that.

Pump out those follower upgrades.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: jakonovski on December 12, 2014, 06:36:18 AM
The whole garrison resource thing sucks. It's time gating that you can speed up if you make buildings that can convert resources. But then you give up on actual game content that the non-resource buildings would give. Basically you're paying sub money to wait for content, or for not getting any content. Either way the player loses.

This expansion is all smoke and mirrors to cover the fact that there is no endgame content.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Jeff Kelly on December 12, 2014, 07:03:17 AM
OK do you know what I really hate about this expansion?

That they don't fucking explain anything anymore.

The garrison being not were it needs to be? OK Blizzard usually takes three tries until they get something right.
The add-on feeling too short? Well at least the content we got is good to great and there is a lot of things  - granted a lot of grindy things but still - to do.
Some mechanics being half assed or broken? Well see point 1 Blizzard will fix (and then break it again) things eventually.

What really grinds my gears though is that you either get no info or the info you get is half assed and crap.

You have to read up on Blizzard's own blogs or on thrid party sites about how almost anything works or even about new features.

LFG, I wouldn't haven known it existed if it weren't for the internet
What do those apexis crystals? Wowhead has the answer
That you only get salvage from follower missions? Internet
That you get the Level 3 salvage yard items in addition to follower items (so it actually doesn't mean that it's less likely to get follower items). A blizzard blog post after a bunch ofpeople asked.

The whole way they communicate important in game mechanics and changes to you fucking sucks now


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on December 12, 2014, 11:25:35 AM
They've embraced the community and extended network aspects of their Metagame. No need to spend money on it when other people do it for free and better.

As has been said before, WoW has been this way for a long, long time. You're only just bitching about it now? Ok, Grandpa.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Rendakor on December 12, 2014, 11:42:45 AM
Except reliance on community information was their big excuse for killing the old talent system.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: jakonovski on December 12, 2014, 11:56:41 AM
My favorite piece of smoke and mirrors has to be Highmaul. You're all like cool, there's still this huge area to explore in Nagrand. But turns out it's just a fucking mirage of an instance. And then you figure out that the entire jungle zone is blocked off. Then finally it dawns on you that there are no lvl100 quests in this expansion. Just a handful of grind spots.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on December 12, 2014, 12:02:54 PM
My favorite piece of smoke and mirrors has to be Highmaul. You're all like cool, there's still this huge area to explore in Nagrand. But turns out it's just a fucking mirage of an instance. And then you figure out that the entire jungle zone is blocked off. Then finally it dawns on you that there are no lvl100 quests in this expansion. Just a handful of grind spots.

So if the raid instance existed in a weird dimension of subspace it would be fine?  The jungle is disappointing but it's just not release content, having these things exist on the map and inaccessible is preferable to me than suddenly "discovering" them.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Pantastic on December 12, 2014, 12:13:55 PM
Hasn't the game always relied on getting information from third party sources? I remember needing to go to Thottbott and Allakazam back in vanilla to figure out where to get upgrades, and having to read guides to figure out what talents actually worked. Even stuff like 'where can I go to farm this rare mat that my profession tells me I need to make this' didn't have any obvious ingame answer other than 'kill stuff randomly and hope one drops somewhere'. (Remember the orbs that only dropped from one of two mob types in one tower in EPL?). And if you wanted to figure out what enchantments you could use, could get, and what materials they needed, nothing in the game other than happening to stumble on them would tell you. Sure, there are some gotchas' like leveling one follower too far past the others, but it's nothing like vanilla, where you could have a super, amamzing, BIS item that was an obscure quest reward that didn't look that impressive at the time, and if you made the wrong choice you were just stuck.

I'm not playing, but if I came in to any expansion I would expect to be able to level by just playing (which apparently works really well), and would expect to need to read up to do any serious endgame stuff, especially to optimize something like a garrison.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: jakonovski on December 12, 2014, 12:22:15 PM
My favorite piece of smoke and mirrors has to be Highmaul. You're all like cool, there's still this huge area to explore in Nagrand. But turns out it's just a fucking mirage of an instance. And then you figure out that the entire jungle zone is blocked off. Then finally it dawns on you that there are no lvl100 quests in this expansion. Just a handful of grind spots.

So if the raid instance existed in a weird dimension of subspace it would be fine?  The jungle is disappointing but it's just not release content, having these things exist on the map and inaccessible is preferable to me than suddenly "discovering" them.

If the game had some level 100 content it'd be quite ok. But not like this when a useless casual like me can exhaust everything except instances in three weeks.

Could also be that mmos aren't for me anymore. Although running instances from your personal instance is really stretching the concept of an MMO.




Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor
Post by: Merusk on December 12, 2014, 01:59:02 PM
Except reliance on community information was their big excuse for killing the old talent system.

No, their big excuse was, "these are flavorless and people do the same builds anyway. Let's make them different so they add flavor and different gameplay instead of +1 to damage"

Which has now changed to, "Talents aren't a permanent thing, they're a situational thing. You customize them on the fly as required by the content in front of you. Here's a cheap respec book (50s per) so carry a bunch and customize talents per encounter. Also, take the same approach with glyphs."

If the game had some level 100 content it'd be quite ok. But not like this when a useless casual like me can exhaust everything except instances in three weeks.

Could also be that mmos aren't for me anymore. Although running instances from your personal instance is really stretching the concept of an MMO.

The daily apexis quests, running around collecting treasures, Arena pvp, battlegrounds and dugeon/ raid instances and min/ maxing your garrison are the content for level 100s. Don't like them, run an alt up to 100, gear it and repeat. There's not a lot of varied things to do but there ARE things to do. Variety always comes in later patches when most of the players have their main and 3-4 alts at cap.

Yes, you don't like MMOs, or this isn't the game for you because this is not radically different from the last 10 years in WoW, at all.  Those of you continuing to declare it as such make me wonder exactly what you were doing when playing the last several expansions.

Pandaria at launch: Hit cap, run dungeonsvia LFG, run dailies, PVP, tend your farm and gind factions.
Cataclysm at launch: Hit cap, run dungeons via LFG, run dailies in different zones, pvp.
WoTLK at launch: Hit cap, run dungeons, run dailies alone as you and your friends figure out you're all in the wrong goddamn phase, pvp.
BC at launch; Hit cap, run dungeons, pvp, grind Netherwing Ledge rep as dailies weren't a thing until Netherwing ledge
Vanilla: Hit cap, run UBRS, Strath or Scholomance ad nausiem at 1-2 hours per dungeon, PVP. If you were Uber try MC with 39 other people.


Title: Re: Bitch Thread for Warlord