Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor

[Rendakor]

Too annoying, too late. Let me RMT flying for $10 and maybe we'll talk.

[Hutch]

I would love to see how many subs they hemorrhaged before doing this about face.

I'd like to know how many they lost just since May 22.
How long until their next financial report? Next month?

[Merusk]

Next month based on numbers tthrough the end of this month.

In short: Too late to get people back before the next content patch.

[Paelos]

Next month based on numbers tthrough the end of this month.

In short: Too late to get people back before the next content patch.

And those numbers on WoW should be grim. Probably offset by some positive numbers from HOTS and Hearthstone.

Short interest fell off a bit, but some insiders have been offloading some of the stock. I still find it interesting how they are valuing this thing. It's got a PE of 20+ for a company that has declining earnings over the last 3 years. It's really crazy.

[Setanta]

So grind shit that has no meaning to a geared 100 in order to be able to fly?

Fuck that Blizzard

So glad I unsubbed this month

[Tannhauser]

I would love to see how many subs they hemorrhaged before doing this about face.

Raise three factions to Revered and grind other stuff.  Nah, still bullshit. WTG Blizz.

[AcidCat]

I would love to see how many subs they hemorrhaged before doing this about face.

Raise three factions to Revered and grind other stuff.  Nah, still bullshit. WTG Blizz.

I've gotta think that the percentage of the subscriber population that is still motivated enough to put in that much work is pretty small.

[SurfD]

So grind shit that has no meaning to a geared 100 in order to be able to fly?

Fuck that Blizzard

So glad I unsubbed this month

Depends on if these acchiveves are account wide (i doubt it tho).   I mean, my main is already 90% done with this already.  I think she has like 80% of the bonus objectives done, only needs two or three questlines to finish nagrand for the loremaster quest, and already has like 70 / 100 of the treasures.    Alts are obvviously worse, since once you  have done a zone you know how to power through it and you skip a lot of things.

[Rendakor]

The flight unlock is account wide.

[SurfD]

Yeah, I just saw someone mention that.  In that case, I should only need to grind the new reps (to revered with a level 3 trading post will take a couple of hours, tops, probably) and finish nagrand on my main, and i am good.

[luckton]

The philosophy is (somewhat) sound. They're sticking to their guns and wanting people to experience all of the content WoD has to offer. In exchange, they'll give you the ability to fly over all of it for your current and future characters. Seems like a pretty fair exchange to me. At least it's something to do until the next expansion.

[Hutch]

They're not sticking to their guns. Sticking to their guns would be: no flying in Draenor, nor in any future expansions.

They see how many people have unsubscribed, and they want to stanch the wound.

All their talk about a "spirited discussion" is just weaselly obfuscation.

[Merusk]

Yeah, at this point it's a "spirited discussion" the same way your parents wailing on your ass until you couldn't sit down for backsass would have been "a heated interaction involving difference of opinions."

[luckton]

If they wanted to do a complete 180, they would have just given us flying without strings. The meta-achievement basically says "ok, looks like you literally did everything we coded into the expansion. Enjoy flying around unmolested."

I won't argue that it seems like a knee-jerk reaction to a bad interview with a tone-deaf developer, because that's exactly what it is. But I'm glad that they were at least able to reconcile the fact that flying is a big thing, will always be a big thing, and that hopefully they got the whole "vision" they had for a ground-based expansion out of their system.

[AcidCat]

They opened Pandora's Box when they introduced flying and they are never going to be able to stuff that particular genie back in the bottle.

A well-reasoned support of flying if anyone's interested: http://inanage.com/2015/05/25/a-flight-too-far/

[Paelos]

If they wanted to do a complete 180, they would have just given us flying without strings.

You're obviously unclear with how upper management admits a failure. First, they deny it exists. Then, they blame the people involved or the users. After that, when they finally get confirmation that the decision is unequivocally reducing sales, they release a message talking about retooling or working hard to find solutions for the customer. That's when they release a half-assed solution that's somewhere between giving in completely to demands and holding firm, but still trying to save face.

That's exactly what this is. This is attempting to save face.

[Merusk]

"Well if I'm wrong then upper management <Kotik> is justified in firing my ass for the stupid decision in the first place."

The inability to be wrong and keep a job is a good portion of why that mindset is out there. I'd almost wager it's even a greater share than the egoism involved with 'not being wrong in the first place.'

[Paelos]

"Well if I'm wrong then upper management <Kotik> is justified in firing my ass for the stupid decision in the first place."

The inability to be wrong and keep a job is a good portion of why that mindset is out there. I'd almost wager it's even a greater share than the egoism involved with 'not being wrong in the first place.'

You'd think that, but most of the time I've seen it's not the case. Being wrong and making amends for it is seen as productive. It's being wrong and denying it to the bitter end that gets you shitcanned, especially if you were publicly wrong.

And if you made a stupid decision and did nothing to try to solve an apparent issue? You will be fired. Most managers and higher-ups don't care who made a mistake as long as there's a correction and it's not a constant pattern. If there's NOT a correction, then heads roll until somebody can figure out how to solve it.

[Merusk]

My profession is soooo much more petty and high school than most corporate professions, it seems.

If you admit you're wrong in my field, you're taking the blame and cost the firm even more money. You're also likely to lose your ability to practice. Construction, Architect, MEP, Structural. It's NOT your fault until it's proven so. Even then you fight it until the bitter end, not because it's about ego but because taking responsibility costs you a job.

[Paelos]

Yeah that's not the way the average business works. You're in a highly technical/professional field so I can't speak to that.

Usually when you fuck up in a regular business, the worst that happens is you lose money. Nothing breaks or falls over.

However, in the construction industry I get your point. Admitting fault on a job is like admitting you own the mistake, which many contractors try to avoid. But those that do own up to mistakes and fix them quickly get more contracts than those who try to play the blame game.

[Lantyssa]

Collections is the same as Merusk's.

I'm the only one that could get away with owning up to a mistake, and that's because I then fix it.  Everyone else is terrified of it, and even if they have the self-awareness to realize they messed up (they rarely do), they will never, ever admit it, even if proof is shoved in their faces.  Blaming anyone and anything else is the norm.

[Paelos]

Collections is the same as Merusk's.

I'm the only one that could get away with owning up to a mistake, and that's because I then fix it.  Everyone else is terrified of it, and even if they have the self-awareness to realize they messed up (they rarely do), they will never, ever admit it, even if proof is shoved in their faces.  Blaming anyone and anything else is the norm.

That's completely normal. What I'm getting at is that in business those who own mistakes and fix them move up, and those that keep trying to shift blame get pigeon-holed or eventually flame out. Unless they are equity owners, in which case you're fucked because they can't be removed.

[Father mike]

So it seems that 6.2 is the last big content push for WoD.

http://www.wowhead.com/news=248176/6-2-mamytwink-interview-hellfire-citadel-planned-as-last-warlords-raid-and-more

There has been grousing that the lack of further content wasn't announced officially, it was just mentioned in an interview with a French gaming magazine.  Also the fact that the Blizzard guy being interviewed called 6.1 (selfies and Twitter integration) a major patch.

As well as -- you know -- two raids and done for this expansion. 

[Paelos]

That's laughable for so many reasons

[Zetor]

Does that mean there won't be a raid to fight the bottom half of Kil'jaeden?

I am disappoint.

[Paelos]

Does that mean there won't be a raid to fight the bottom half of Kil'jaeden?

I am disappoint.

One of the funniest things to me is they are changing actual end bosses mid stream. It's like this xpac had zero planning. They charged more than ever and they deliver two patches, one of which had no content? I mean what's it take for people to realize they are getting fleeced?

[Merusk]

A lot, lot more. Remember this patch wasn't even going to have flying until the outcry came up, and it's no simple thing to get it. You're looking at another 60 hours of playing to do the rep grinds.

[Hawkbit]

I like to imagine a revolving door of product owners on the WoW team.

[Fabricated]

lmao

[Merusk]

Two major irritants with the new content:

1) Gated dailies. You have to do one set to get the next set to even show up. Awesome job guys, way to make me not do either because fuck that.

2) The new ship missions - You can lose a ship at any time for a failure, unlike the companions. Epic'd out Battleship with the best crew that you gound up from a green? Lost to RNG. The only saving grace is they're cheap to build and you can get an epic at build time. Just trash the greens & blues instead of grinding them.

I don't know who they stuck on this lead balloon but they're not very good at what Blizzard used to excel at; removing the arbitrary suck from game systems.

[Rokal]

1) Gated dailies. You have to do one set to get the next set to even show up. Awesome job guys, way to make me not do either because fuck that.

This isn't so bad, because there are only ~3-4 dailies in Tanaan and the gated ones usually lead you to different areas. For those curious, it's like Timeless Isle dailies (collect 10 items from rare mobs, or from the environment) meets Apexis dailies (complete this area event). You seem to get two sets of each every day.

2) The new ship missions - You can lose a ship at any time for a failure, unlike the companions. Epic'd out Battleship with the best crew that you gound up from a green? Lost to RNG. The only saving grace is they're cheap to build and you can get an epic at build time. Just trash the greens & blues instead of grinding them.

Agreed that this is totally obnoxious and unnecessary. When people said that Garrisons eventually turned into a boring Facebook game, what genius at Blizzard thought having Followers (in this case, Ships) randomly die on failed missions would be an improvement?

Objectively Tanaan seems like a cool zone. The most "timeless isle" of all the WoD zones: lots of rares, cosmetic items, catch-up gear, and picking your own activities to complete dailies rather than rigid kill X of Y in location Z quests, etc.

Subjectively, it's too little too late. The expansion has been out for ~10 months and this is the first real content patch they've done, in an expansion that was already pretty light on compelling end-game activities.

The only other stuff to do aside from running alts through Tanaan to collect gear that will be replaced by leveling gear within the first 2 hours of the next content update: the next expansion (which by all estimates won't arrive for at least another 10-12 months), is to do another raid where you fight Orcs and wrestle with the problems Garrosh and Garrosh's timetravel Dad caused. If that sounds boring, it is because it's pretty much exactly what we did for 14 months at the end of the last expansion in Siege of Orgrimmar.

[SurfD]

Two major irritants with the new content:

1) Gated dailies. You have to do one set to get the next set to even show up. Awesome job guys, way to make me not do either because fuck that.

Excatly why is this that irritating to you?   It is ONE daily. ONE.  You do the daily from the command table, return to the hub, and the two follow up ones become available.  This costs you  maybe 2 minutes travel time from almost anywhere in the zone, tops.  And it's not like it even effects your ability to complete the followup ones faster, since even if they gave them to you all at the same time,  doing the daily from the command table does not grant credit towards the "two bonus objecctives" daily, so you  would  still  have to do two other bonus areas anyway.

It's literally like bitching just for the sake of bitchng.

As to losing ships.  I sort of understand why they did that: A: it actually presents a sense of meaningful risk vs reward, and B: there currently isnt really any resource sink in the game for Garrison Resources that does not pay out really well.  They needed something that would eat garrison resources at a decent rate without paying your bank account back in return at obscene rates.

[Paelos]

Don't defend dailies. It makes you look ridiculous.

[SurfD]

I  will take the grind in it's current measured, daily dose form over the vanilla grind untill your eyes bleed form any day of the week, thank you very much.   Still doesnt change the fact that it is a pretty weak whine to complain about a single "gated" two step daily setup.   I mean, if it was a normal questline, you wouldnt bat an eye when completing step one handed you step two.  Why can't dailys use the same mechanic?

[Draegan]

There is zero risk vs reward WOW and putting it in now randomly is stupid.