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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  MMOG Discussion  |  Topic: Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen turns out to be a real game (real bad, geddit?) 0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen turns out to be a real game (real bad, geddit?)  (Read 326531 times)
Pennilenko
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Reply #105 on: January 08, 2014, 11:26:20 AM

So what? There are plenty of v solo friendly MMOs out there.
I don't think he really is even interested in catering to the people looking for solo friendly. I get the vibe that Brad is really shooting for just having enough of a loyal group of players looking for this type of niche. I wouldn't be surprised if he was happy with enough players to keep the lights on and keep developing a game that he likes to play. Frankly, I won't be early funding anything he does because of his business track record. However, I don't need any stupid apology or anything from him because I enjoyed the shit out of Vanguard and Everquest 1, and if he manages to execute and deliver on his recent idea pitch I will purchase and or spend money on his game.

No disrespect to the people on this forum, but I am not sure F13 is the place where the proposed game type is going to get a lot of traction.

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Hutch
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Reply #106 on: January 08, 2014, 11:50:06 AM

So what? There are plenty of v solo friendly MMOs out there.
I don't think he really is even interested in catering to the people looking for solo friendly. I get the vibe that Brad is really shooting for just having enough of a loyal group of players looking for this type of niche. I wouldn't be surprised if he was happy with enough players to keep the lights on and keep developing a game that he likes to play. Frankly, I won't be early funding anything he does because of his business track record. However, I don't need any stupid apology or anything from him because I enjoyed the shit out of Vanguard and Everquest 1, and if he manages to execute and deliver on his recent idea pitch I will purchase and or spend money on his game.

No disrespect to the people on this forum, but I am not sure F13 is the place where the proposed game type is going to get a lot of traction.

It isn't. The point of this entire thread is not even to debate or discuss the merits of the game. The point is to mock Brad, and to gape at the events leading up to the horrible, terrible, awful, no good day that this game launches, should it make it that far. Much as one would gape at a train wreck.

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palmer_eldritch
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Reply #107 on: January 08, 2014, 12:07:02 PM

If the game works the way a lot of you are suggesting, I think it actually sounds like fun. I'm someone who enjoys doing dungeons with groups, even pick up groups, more than just about any other activity. I know it may be a minority taste but there are a few of us.

One proviso though is that you'd need a way of ensuring it's still possible for lowbies to progress when the game is mature and most players are high level, or if server populations are just generally low.
Hutch
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Reply #108 on: January 08, 2014, 12:33:35 PM

Doing dungeons in pick-up groups is something you can do in WoW, LotRO, Rift, etc.

The idea of having to do a dungeon in order to unlock a character level, as Brad seems to be describing, is not so common in more mainstream MMOs. I personally can't think of another game that does that.

When he calls the game "group-focused", that means that you'll have to get into a group, pick-up or otherwise, in order to take on more mundane challenges in the game world, i.e. routine leveling. This is the way of such dinosaurs as FFXI, DAoC, and EQ1. Form a group, find a camp, assign a puller, and fight mobs for xp. Any mob that you can tackle by yourself isn't going to give you any xp. And still might kill you anyway. This is the sort of gameplay that Aradune is seeking to resurrect for his challenging, modern game  awesome, for real

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Hawkbit
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Reply #109 on: January 08, 2014, 12:41:32 PM

Make one person in the group require the key for the whole group to enter.  Alleviates the average person from needing to do the grind; they can just have their catass friend run with them. 
Stormwaltz
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Reply #110 on: January 08, 2014, 12:50:14 PM

The idea of having to do a dungeon in order to unlock a character level, as Brad seems to be describing, is not so common in more mainstream MMOs. I personally can't think of another game that does that.

There are similar ideas - not tied to levels directly, but to higher-level  content. In FF, you have your mandatory group dungeons. In Defiance, there are missions that may be too difficult for "average" shooter players to complete alone - and since you have to complete them to unlock more missions, you may, as I did, find yourself locked out of any content aside from landscape spawns.

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Rendakor
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Reply #111 on: January 08, 2014, 12:51:35 PM

If you want a good group-oriented MMO play FFXIV.

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Tmon
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Reply #112 on: January 08, 2014, 01:13:17 PM

Make one person in the group require the key for the whole group to enter.  Alleviates the average person from needing to do the grind; they can just have their catass friend run with them. 

That works pretty well till your friend out levels you.  I'm fairly certain that this game will include every feature (required group only content, required dungeons, monthly sub, hell levels, experience and item loss on death, etc)  that guarantees that the only experience I have of it will be reading this thread on F13.
palmer_eldritch
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Reply #113 on: January 08, 2014, 01:59:29 PM

Doing dungeons in pick-up groups is something you can do in WoW, LotRO, Rift, etc.

The idea of having to do a dungeon in order to unlock a character level, as Brad seems to be describing, is not so common in more mainstream MMOs. I personally can't think of another game that does that.

When he calls the game "group-focused", that means that you'll have to get into a group, pick-up or otherwise, in order to take on more mundane challenges in the game world, i.e. routine leveling. This is the way of such dinosaurs as FFXI, DAoC, and EQ1. Form a group, find a camp, assign a puller, and fight mobs for xp. Any mob that you can tackle by yourself isn't going to give you any xp. And still might kill you anyway. This is the sort of gameplay that Aradune is seeking to resurrect for his challenging, modern game  awesome, for real


Anything's possible but the quote I was interested in was this:

"Yes, and it's even possible that in order to achieve your next level, that you'll have to go through a dungeon, perhaps one that wouldn't let you in before, and complete some 'Achievements' in order to advance. Like I've hinted in the past, our Achievement system will be integrated into how you reach your next level, unlike other games where they're just 'cool' to unlock. Unlocking them in Pantheon will have meaning."

That implies to me that you'll have to go through a dungeon to progress your character on a regular basis, but I took it to mean completing a new dungeon each time and actually moving through it, presumably to defeat some sort of end boss, rather than camping a room.

I don't think the simple fact that the game is "group-focused" has to mean camping either. After all, there are plenty of MMOs already where you can spend most of your time grouped if you wish without having to camp rooms, so I don't see why that should happen in an MMO specifically designed to be group-friendly.
Hutch
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Reply #114 on: January 08, 2014, 02:30:04 PM

Doing dungeons in pick-up groups is something you can do in WoW, LotRO, Rift, etc.

The idea of having to do a dungeon in order to unlock a character level, as Brad seems to be describing, is not so common in more mainstream MMOs. I personally can't think of another game that does that.

When he calls the game "group-focused", that means that you'll have to get into a group, pick-up or otherwise, in order to take on more mundane challenges in the game world, i.e. routine leveling. This is the way of such dinosaurs as FFXI, DAoC, and EQ1. Form a group, find a camp, assign a puller, and fight mobs for xp. Any mob that you can tackle by yourself isn't going to give you any xp. And still might kill you anyway. This is the sort of gameplay that Aradune is seeking to resurrect for his challenging, modern game  awesome, for real


Anything's possible but the quote I was interested in was this:

"Yes, and it's even possible that in order to achieve your next level, that you'll have to go through a dungeon, perhaps one that wouldn't let you in before, and complete some 'Achievements' in order to advance. Like I've hinted in the past, our Achievement system will be integrated into how you reach your next level, unlike other games where they're just 'cool' to unlock. Unlocking them in Pantheon will have meaning."

That implies to me that you'll have to go through a dungeon to progress your character on a regular basis, but I took it to mean completing a new dungeon each time and actually moving through it, presumably to defeat some sort of end boss, rather than camping a room.

I don't think the simple fact that the game is "group-focused" has to mean camping either. After all, there are plenty of MMOs already where you can spend most of your time grouped if you wish without having to camp rooms, so I don't see why that should happen in an MMO specifically designed to be group-friendly.

Right, that quote is what I was thinking of when I wrote "The idea of having to do a dungeon in order to unlock a character level, as Brad seems to be describing, is not so common in more mainstream MMOs."

I agree that "group focused" doesn't *have to* mean camping. I agree that anything's possible. Except, I don't believe that Brad has actually changed. Or learned anything.

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sam, an eggplant
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Reply #115 on: January 08, 2014, 02:40:41 PM

Didn't FF11 do something like that, anyway? Called limit breaks or something. I remember it being on my list of interesting ideas in a game I'd never play due to not living in Asia.
Daeven
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Reply #116 on: January 08, 2014, 02:55:13 PM

Pantheon Rise of the Fallen - the modern, challenging, group-focused MMO game.

This thread will never die.

Also, is there a MMO name generator that McQuaid used for this project? I'm struggling to think of a more generic name he could have picked.

Needs more colon.

Pantheon: Fall of the Risen: The Tales of Filly Darkpaw and Some Random Crap Players Do.

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Reply #117 on: January 08, 2014, 04:53:36 PM

Didn't FF11 do something like that, anyway? Called limit breaks or something. I remember it being on my list of interesting ideas in a game I'd never play due to not living in Asia.
Skillchains and Magic Bursts.
lamaros
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Reply #118 on: January 08, 2014, 04:55:48 PM

He still sounds like an arrogant tosspot. Just one who has been found out and is struggling to hold it in until get gets the money/position/whatever to revert to form.
Venkman
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Reply #119 on: January 08, 2014, 07:02:20 PM

If the game works the way a lot of you are suggesting, I think it actually sounds like fun. I'm someone who enjoys doing dungeons with groups, even pick up groups, more than just about any other activity. I know it may be a minority taste but there are a few of us.

One proviso though is that you'd need a way of ensuring it's still possible for lowbies to progress when the game is mature and most players are high level, or if server populations are just generally low.

This post is a testament to how far this genre hasn't come when the second paragraph even needs to be said, and is said in the context of actual not complete disinterest in vaporware from a largely disliked developer who nobody has seen do anything relevant for a decade.

tl;dr: are we so desperate for anyone who'll take MMOs seriously the way they used to that we'll give this guy attention?

tl;dr+irony: and we won't allow a full thread for Shroud of the Avatar.
Tannhauser
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Reply #120 on: January 09, 2014, 02:52:07 AM

No one's serious because you need a ton of money AND a ton of talent.  McQuaid has neither.

Not even Blizzard could make World of Warcraft now.
Draegan
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Reply #121 on: January 09, 2014, 08:05:38 AM

Star Citizen is probably going to be the best online game in the next decade for sure.
shiznitz
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Reply #122 on: January 09, 2014, 08:41:45 AM

The point Brad continually misses is that players should want to do dungeons because they are fun, not because they drop the best loot and not because they are the best exp/hour and not because you MUST to get your next skill up.  He actually achieved this in Vanguard to some degree.  A pickup group could actually work a dungeon.  In my 20 levels in that game, I did 4 dungeon crawls and the group never camped.  The dungeons were cool to explore.  Maybe that would have worn with experience but exp at that stage was fast enough that there wasn't a lot of reason to do a even enter dungeon more than twice, let alone try and finish it.

The problem was that death in the dungeon still posed an incredible logistical problem to getting your corpse.

I have never played WoW.
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Reply #123 on: January 09, 2014, 10:07:51 PM

Star Citizen is probably going to be the best online game in the next decade for sure.


DayDream
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Reply #124 on: January 10, 2014, 01:33:05 AM

Star Citizen is probably going to be the best online game in the next decade for sure.



In a serious conversation I'd bet on DayZ, actually.
Falconeer
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Reply #125 on: January 10, 2014, 01:33:35 AM

tl;dr+irony: and we won't allow a full thread for Shroud of the Avatar.

Which is a shame because Lum works there.

Ginaz
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Reply #126 on: January 10, 2014, 04:28:34 AM

tl;dr+irony: and we won't allow a full thread for Shroud of the Avatar.

Which is a shame because Lum works there.

Poor Lum. cry
Venkman
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Reply #127 on: January 10, 2014, 02:09:18 PM

Shroud is coming along pretty much as I expected, in a good way. It's one I've been following not because it'll be a market mover, but because it talks about a lot of the stuff I remember loving in UO.

Of course, that's all colored by being a decade later. But I won't know how much it's colored until I have  it on my hard drive smiley
sam, an eggplant
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Reply #128 on: January 11, 2014, 08:42:23 AM

These concepts have been in Garriot's head for a long-ass time. I saw him give a presentation about it at E3 1999 with many of the exact same gameplay concepts found in Shroud today. He was way ahead of his time then, talking about instancing in 1999. UO wasn't really a Garriot game. Shroud will be.

Not saying it'll necessarily be a good product; he had a ton of design space freedom on Tabula Rasa too. And of course Shroud is informed by UO. It just originated from a different place.
Hutch
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Reply #129 on: January 13, 2014, 12:05:14 PM

The Kickstarter is happening

edit to add:
800k seems modest, until you scroll down and look at the stretch goals.

Also, each tier except the first is limited. So we'll be able to see in real time how many people are willing to KS this thing  awesome, for real
« Last Edit: January 13, 2014, 12:09:30 PM by Hutch »

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satael
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Reply #130 on: January 13, 2014, 12:08:18 PM


It's going to be awesome. They already have kickstarter goals up to $6.7m!  why so serious?
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Error 404: Title not found.


Reply #131 on: January 13, 2014, 12:12:18 PM

$3.8M to add PvP.

Words fail.

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tazelbain
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Reply #132 on: January 13, 2014, 12:13:36 PM

Ha and I thought Rifts was generic.

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Ingmar
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Reply #133 on: January 13, 2014, 12:17:10 PM

Ahahaha.

So, all those tiers except the first one - which gets you nothing - are limited. Those tiers above the first only add up to 972,500 dollars. So he's created a bunch of stretch goals he literally cannot hit without people donating millions of dollars without even a promised reward. His *very first* stretch goal is unreachable with actual rewarded tiers.

 why so serious?

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Lucas
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Reply #134 on: January 13, 2014, 12:22:37 PM

Please, gimme picture/gif of a GIGANTIC bowl of popcorns  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

" He's so impatient, it's like watching a teenager fuck a glorious older woman." - Ironwood on J.J. Abrams
shiznitz
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Reply #135 on: January 13, 2014, 12:22:40 PM

Why should a digital download be a KS tier reward?  How the fuck is he going to distribute the game other than download?  Is he going to try and actually sell the download?

I have never played WoW.
Hutch
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Reply #136 on: January 13, 2014, 12:28:05 PM

Why should a digital download be a KS tier reward?  How the fuck is he going to distribute the game other than download?  Is he going to try and actually sell the download?

If you're talking about the rewards from the $45 and $100 tiers, that just means that you've paid in advance. When the game is released, you won't have to pay at that time to download it.

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tazelbain
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Reply #137 on: January 13, 2014, 12:33:37 PM

I love how the the whole thing is cloaked in terms of faith. Finally, True-believers, now is your chance to show how strong your faith is!

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Reply #138 on: January 13, 2014, 12:33:50 PM

VISIONARY REALMS?

gtfo
Paelos
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Error 404: Title not found.


Reply #139 on: January 13, 2014, 12:58:00 PM

Remember kids, if you're trying to fleece the rubes in KS, you actually have to pretend to be competent.

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