NHL 2013 - 2014

[Paelos]

Is Dallas ever going to be good again? That's the only way I can see myself getting the NFL Center Ice thing since it's my prior home town love, and Winnipeg stole my team.

I feel like they have been garbage for a while.

[WayAbvPar]

They have a good young nucleus, and could be real trouble in a year or two with the right progressions and additions.

[Ginaz]

Watching the Leafs actually getting the results their underlying stats show they have deserved for the past 80-ish games or so has been pretty entertaining to watch, especially after the talk from Leaf coaches that stats aren't important (major paraphrasing there, but still). Now I'm just hoping the Canucks also fall out of the playoffs (and stay out). The tears would keep me fed for decades.

As a Canucks fan, I'd be surprised if they made the playoffs which is kind of frustrating when looking at the teams that will be in the playoffs in the east.   Also, just like in Calgary where its always 1989, Edmonton seems stuck in the 80's because, apart from one fluke run to the Stanley Cup finals, they've been garbage for almost 25 years now and all they do is relive the glory days of Gretzky and Messier.  The way things are going now it doesn't look like its going to change anytime soon.  What year are we on the Oiler's rebuild?  6? 7?  For our US American friends, the Canuck hatred amongst Canadian fans is due mostly to the fact they've been the best of the Canadian teams for the last 20 years and their fans like to remind everyone of it.  Hockey jealousy to go along with jealousy for Vancouver's warm winter weather.  Its not saying much since none of the Canadian teams have done much of anything during that time but there it is.

[Speedy Cerviche]

^not sure what this guy is babbling about? Canadians jealous of rainy winters? Canucks havent won anything either.

The Stars are well managed but had some trouble because of Tom Hicks the owner going bankrupt on other adventures. Because of that they were running on a shoestring budget the past 4 years and had to make roster decisions factoring that, had talent but lacked depth down the stretch. Now they have a new owner and are spending again, should bounce back quickly.

[Ceryse]

As a Canucks fan, I'd be surprised if they made the playoffs which is kind of frustrating when looking at the teams that will be in the playoffs in the east.   Also, just like in Calgary where its always 1989, Edmonton seems stuck in the 80's because, apart from one fluke run to the Stanley Cup finals, they've been garbage for almost 25 years now and all they do is relive the glory days of Gretzky and Messier.  The way things are going now it doesn't look like its going to change anytime soon.  What year are we on the Oiler's rebuild?  6? 7?  For our US American friends, the Canuck hatred amongst Canadian fans is due mostly to the fact they've been the best of the Canadian teams for the last 20 years and their fans like to remind everyone of it.  Hockey jealousy to go along with jealousy for Vancouver's warm winter weather.  Its not saying much since none of the Canadian teams have done much of anything during that time but there it is.

Actually, the situation in Edmonton is a little more complicated. The management/owner (excepting MacT) are stuck in the '80s. The majority of the fan base is stuck in the late '90s, when the Oilers had a decent, but not great team that could hang around the playoff cut-off, get in, face Dallas and lose, but worked very hard.

And its technically year 5 of the rebuild (this is the year we were supposed to challenge for a playoff spot). Rebuild didn't start until '09-10 season. Before then the Oilers sucked, but were not rebuilding. Also, the '06 run wasn't so much a fluke as after the trade deadline (where the Oilers actually plugged their three big holes which had caused the team to struggle to that point of the season) the Oilers were one of the better teams in the league. Combined with good coaching in the playoffs (MacT coached his ass off in that playoff run, and got lauded for it by opposing coaches), players getting hot during the playoffs.. they did well until M. A. Bergeron took out his own goalie, then pushed a shittier team to game seven using two non-NHL goalies. And then the house of cards collapsed from Pronger wanting out, followed by several others wanting out because travel was a bitch (Spacek and a few others). Oilers went from one of the best D-corps in the league.. to one of the worst, but stubbornly refused to rebuild for another three years.

Oilers are unlikely to get better until the owner actually gets over his Boys on the Bus man-crush and lets the team fire Lowe, Buchberger and Smith.

Canuck hate is very simple and it exists for the following reasons; the team has generally been one of the dirtier teams in the league (and also filled with prolific divers), arrogant players/management, horrendous homers in the media and one of the most annoying fan bases -- the majority of whom were bandwagon fans who acted like the Canucks were better than the 80's Oilers because of regular season domination before accomplishing jack and shit in the playoffs (they're made the Stanley Cup Finals three times; 1982, 1994, 2011). In the last decade especially the fan base has been intolerable, despite the team being an utter failure in all but one year, where they merely failed.. and then proceeded to riot.

There's a reason they're generally the most hated, or one of the most hated teams by both fans and other players.

Oh, and they whine constantly, which never goes over well with anyone.

They were a good team (and at times a great team), but they accomplished nothing of note where it mattered, but acted like they were a dynasty -- hence the nickname; the Dys, which is what they're generally referred to in Alberta. And now they're getting old and things are starting to fall apart -- if the Canucks don't make the playoffs for two years it'll be hilarious to watch the fan base disintegrate as the majority of the current fan base gets off the wagon, leaving a smaller, dedicated (and less asshole-ish) core group of fans behind.

[Hoax]

Speaking from California hockey-land I can confirm nobody likes the Canucks at all.

Canuck hate is very simple and it exists for the following reasons; the team has generally been one of the dirtier teams in the league (and also filled with prolific divers), arrogant players/management, horrendous homers in the media and one of the most annoying fan bases

In addition it often feels like in Canucks versus American team series that they are getting all sorts of calls while playing dirtier WHILE their fans cry more and their players cry more about fucking everything. Fuck the Canucks.

[Fordel]

No one east of Manitoba remembers the Canucks exist.

[WayAbvPar]

I love that in a league with Boston, Philadelphia and Anaheim, the Canucks are considered the dirtiest team. 

[Strazos]

With no Pronger or Hatcher, the Flyers are not particularly dirty...though they do take a ton of dumb penalties.

[Ginaz]

I love that in a league with Boston, Philadelphia and Anaheim, the Canucks are considered the dirtiest team. 

Yeah, its like no one watched the Bruins goon their way to the Stanley Cup in 2011.

[Ceryse]

I love that in a league with Boston, Philadelphia and Anaheim, the Canucks are considered the dirtiest team. 

Its not so much that the Canucks are a dirty team (though they are), its that they're a dirty team reknowned for complaining and whining about others being dirty, refs shafting them, and much the fanbase and media surrounding the team merely echo these sentiments regardless of how hypocritical it is. It was similar to how laughable it was when the Penguins bitched about dirty players when they had Cooke (prior to him actually cleaning up his game -- for which the guy deserves credit; he went from one of the dirtiest players in the league who was a marginal player in terms of skill, to a much more effective player who is merely a pest/hitter). You just couldn't take them seriously and it made the team, management and fans look utterly stupid.

The Canucks are worse than that, however, and have been for years. Less substantiated to fans, however, there's also the surprising number of reported issues other players in the league have had with Canuck players. I remember back in around '09 (maybe '10?) when one of the polls came out noting the Canucks as the most hated team by the players in the league, that a number of the TSN and CBC analysts mentioned a large segment of the player population had run-ins with Canuck players of them stepping across traditional lines in regards to trash talk, diving, bitching to refs and pre-game issues.

As for other teams.. Philly isn't that dirty as a team, imo. They have a number of dirty players (Hartnell is one of the players in the league who deserves a crowbar to the head), but as a team? Not that dirty. Anaheim is less a dirty team than it is a team of divers, especially these days. Phoenix is a team that doesn't get the credit it deserves for dirty play, however. Its not uncommon for there to be more than a few questionable hits/issues with that team.

Boston is dirty. If possible, they're largely 'legal dirty' more often than not. Probably the best team in the league at walking the line. Sometimes they cross it, however (and when they do its usually big), but they play the game, by and large, within the confines of how refs want to call it. Which is bullshit, imo. If you actually count penalties that should be called, but don't, they usually number around 40-50 per team, every game. Tons of stick work, interference, picks, cross checks, slough-foots, goalie interference (and slash/roughing reprisals from the goalie), high sticks and face-off violations go un-called every game. Its one of the biggest issues in the sport, imo, as it means you never really know what the hell will be called and what they will decide to let go.. especially as you get closer to playoff time when the rules change and more shit gets allowed.

But the NHL is a Mickey Mouse league. Always has been. Likely always will be.

[Bunk]

Wow, ok. Obviously I'm a homer yet I'm willing to accept much of that criticism. Yes, we as fans whine we we feel we aren't treated fairly. And no, we haven't won the cup. To say we've won nothing though? Based on that criteria, you'd have to say that about what, 25 other teams in the last decade?

Over the last ten seasons, Vancouver's been in the top ten of the league 8 times. They've had the best record in the league twice in that stretch.

As for the dirty/hated/etc stuff - you are basing a lot of that on a poll you vaguely remember from four years ago? I get that many people don't like Alex Burrows or Ryan Kessler. They both yap a lot and they have had reputations of diving in the past. As in, several years ago. The team has actually cleaned most of that up, but the reputation sticks. All the guys who are really notorious for being "dirty Canucks" haven't played for the team in years: Bertuzzi, Cooke, Torres, etc.  Oh, but I forgot, Burrows bit down on a finger that someone shoved in his mouth a couple years ago, so yup, Canucks are the dirtiest team in the league.

Seriously though, I think the number one reason the Canucks have a reputation of being whiners and complainers: The Sedin twins' faces. They just look that way. They can't help it.

Oh, and the band wagonning you accuse us of isn't as nearly bad as you think. Yes, we have people who are borderline hockey fans that jump on board during the playoffs, but in general - the Canucks are well loved and supported in this city. Bandwagon fans only show up to games when it matters or when they think they're about to win something. The Canucks have a sellout streak dating back to 2002. That's ninth all time among North American Sports teams. That's a pretty solid fan base.

[Speedy Cerviche]

Boston doesn't throw many dirty hits besides Chara who throws his forearm high, partially due to high height but he seems to enjoy doing it. Other than that they are just kind of 'bully' dirty, a lot of aggression in scrums, and stuff like one guy will hold someone and another will punch, sometimes in fights too, stupid crap like that. When they fight they pick their opponents carefully too. So they do stuff to create a veneer of intimidation, and I think it works to an extent against teams that don't know them well (the Canucks), but against teams that do know them well like Montreal it doesn't seem to factor much.

[Shannow]

Talking about divers....

[Ginaz]

Oh man, there might be some serious fallout after this Calgary-Vancouver game.

[Fordel]

What ever do you mean?

[murdoc]

No clue what you guys mean...

[Ginaz]

No clue what you guys mean...

Yup.

[Ginaz]

So, 15 day suspension for Torts, which equals 6 games.  A little excessive IMO but not unexpected.  Hartley is fined $25k for putting his good line out to start the game.

[Ceryse]

Meh, Torts got what he deserved. The shit in-between periods was a disgrace. The rest? I was fine with it, honestly. Hartley threw out fighters. Torts responded. Players decided they were fine with it and the brawl began. I see no problems whatsoever here. If a coach throws out his fourth line like Hartley did, Torts could have responded with a skill line -- he declined to do so, and as such has no room to be upset about Hartley's move. The players involved went along with it, so what's the issue? When all three groups are willing, why such a fuss?

Dumb, granted. Someone throws a fourth line out there like that you should respond with your skill line and make them look stupid for spotting you a goal (or a decent chance to get one).

[WayAbvPar]

Did you see the play? There was no time for 'let the skill players grab the puck and go'. Westgarth took the faceoff and didn't even move his stick- he just bearhugged Bieksa. If that was Henrik Sedin do you think it would have been any different? The Calgary players were sent out there for a specific task regardless of who lined up against them.

During the course of the game, obviously you try to get skilled players against the 4th line. But when that lineup is submitted to start the game, Torts knew goddamned good and well what was happening and he was mildly upset about it 

[Ceryse]

Did you see the play? There was no time for 'let the skill players grab the puck and go'. Westgarth took the faceoff and didn't even move his stick- he just bearhugged Bieksa. If that was Henrik Sedin do you think it would have been any different? The Calgary players were sent out there for a specific task regardless of who lined up against them.

During the course of the game, obviously you try to get skilled players against the 4th line. But when that lineup is submitted to start the game, Torts knew goddamned good and well what was happening and he was mildly upset about it 

Perhaps he took the face-off and went straight to bear hug Bieksa because it was Bieksa. If it was Sedin, maybe he doesn't do that because of the double standard in hockey. Just look at earlier in the year at the out-rage generated when Scott went after a skill player. Nevermind possible chirping/conversing before the puck even gets dropped, which may have let him know Bieksa was willing or not (we won't ever know, but I doubt Bieksa was anything but willing when he lined up at center). After Hartley's douche-baggery of selecting players Torts had a chance to defuse the situation; he chose to go along with it. The Vancouver and Calgary players then had a chance to defuse it, but went along with it. In my opinion that makes everything that happened on the ice after the puck drop fair game. Torts trying to get into the Flames' dressing room? Clown-shoes and idiocy. He deserved the suspension he got. He acted like a child in a tantrum, instead of an adult who'd had more than enough time to settle down.

Outside of what Torts did, I see no reason for this entire escapade to be anything of note beyond; "well, that's minor league bullshit". Its one thing for a brawl like that to develop in the course of the game, but to kick it off? Meh.

[Shannow]

Is anyone actually surprised by Torts behaviour?

[Fordel]

There's been other games this season where the other coach tried to 'defuse' the situation and it just got his good players in a fight instead, or embarrassing themselves by trying to slash away peoples legs and shit.

[MournelitheCalix]

Anyone heard anything about Ryan Miller?  The talk in STL is that a trade is likely possible that sends Halak, Stewart, Rattie, and our first round pick out for Miller and one other player.  That other players identity varies with some speculating Ott and others saying Grigorenko (sp).  That was pretty much all people in the stands around me were talking about during the Devils game.

[Ceryse]

Man.. to think an Edmonton Oiler goalie, in this season of all seasons, would set the NHL record for most saves in a shut-out. That game was one of the most hilarious, entertaining and embarrassing games I've ever watched. Complete domination by the Sharks against a tired (and bad) Oilers team.. and the Oilers win 3-0. Hilarious. Oilers needed NHL goal-tending the first 30 games and now the hockey gods seem to be evening things out now that the season is utterly lost.

As for Miller... there's a lot of talk about him moving. Regarding the Blues? That deal wouldn't overly surprise me given the issues surrounding Grigorenko. All I'm hoping for is that the Oilers are nowhere near Miller or Cam Ward.

[Ginaz]

Looks like the Sabres finally traded Ryan Miller.  Miller goes to the Blues along with Ott for Halak, Stewart, prospect William Carrier 2015 1st round pick and 2016 3rd round pick.  Buffalo seems to have done alright for a guy everyone knew they had to trade and the Blues stabilized their goaltending while adding a bit more sand paper with Ott.
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/sabres-trade-ryan-miller-ott-to-blues-for-jaroslav-halak-1.2555984

[MournelitheCalix]

Looks like the Sabres finally traded Ryan Miller.  Miller goes to the Blues along with Ott for Halak, Stewart, prospect William Carrier 2015 1st round pick and 2016 3rd round pick.  Buffalo seems to have done alright for a guy everyone knew they had to trade and the Blues stabilized their goaltending while adding a bit more sand paper with Ott.
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/sabres-trade-ryan-miller-ott-to-blues-for-jaroslav-halak-1.2555984

If the Blues resign Ott and Miller then I think this was a great deal for both sides.  If Miller walks its a calamity for STL IMHO.  I am wondering if either Stewart or Halak ever see a game as a Sabre.  People around STL seem to think that Stewart will be shipped to Ottawa and Jaro to either Minnesota or Washington.  Interestingly Ottawa was one club scouting Stewart.  Washington was rumored to have talked to Doug Armstrong about Halak's services.

Also a final note on this deal, if the Blues go to the finals or sign Miller then the Blues 2014 1st round draft pick also goes to Buffalo.  Oh and I just bought tickets to Miller's first homegame at Scott Trade Center.  Can't wait to hold up my "It's Miller time in StL!" sign! Too bad it will be against the Lightning that might just be without St.Louis

[Ginaz]

Looks like the Canucks traded Luongo to Florida.  Let the fire sale begin.  Up next, Kesler.

[Bunk]

Got Jacob Markstrom, a goalie prospect, and Shawn Mathias back. More than I thought they'd get to honest, considering the contract.
At least it explains why they didn't play him in the stadium game.

[WayAbvPar]

Looks like the Canucks traded Luongo to Florida.  Let the fire sale begin.  Up next, Kesler.

I was a GMMG believer at first but his handling of Luongo has been appalling. Waited WAY too long and got a completely shit deal for him. At least he is off the books so the next GM can rebuild. What a fucking shitshow.

[Ceryse]

At least he is off the books so the next GM can rebuild. What a fucking shitshow.

Well, the Canucks do retain 15% of his cap hit.

Oh, and his Luongo wants to supremely fuck the Canucks all he has to do is retire in the next couple years. New CBA rules would have the Canucks on the hook for the vast majority of his contract then, including the cap hit.

[Stewie]

On the surface it looks like a pretty shitty deal for the canucks and it could very well end up that way. Especially when you factor in the Schnieder trade as well. 2 all star level goalies and we got Bo Horvat, Markstrom, and Mathias.  Does not sound good.

What many people are not factoring in is the nearly $5 mill in salary that the canucks have cleared up. if they were to sign upper tier FA for that money then its not so bad.

As for Markstrom though, he was very highly touted prospect. Now at 24 though and he has not been able to crack the Panthers nhl roster. When you look at what hes up against (Tim Thomas and Scott Clemmonson) thats pretty troubling.

Bottom line for the canucks is that if Horvat and the player/players they get for Lou's money pan out it will be ok. If bo doesnt make the team next year and they get off to a slow start Gillis should be gone.

[WayAbvPar]

Stolen from SA, but pretty much sums everything up-

[Hoax]

I haven't watched a ton of hockey since that last lockout season but why would the Ducks give away Penner for a who cares round draft pick? Even if a) he's gone next year anyways b) he's not half the player he was. I don't see how the hell that makes sense.