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Author Topic: Diablo 3: Reaper of Souls  (Read 366950 times)
schild
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Reply #595 on: March 08, 2014, 09:53:56 AM

When you craft Seven Sins can you trade it to other people?
Nope.
That's stupid. What if they're in the game with you when you craft it?
Xanthippe
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Reply #596 on: March 08, 2014, 10:40:23 AM

I don't know. That's on my list of things to try today.

I don't think it will work, though.

If it doesn't work, it kind of makes the whole legendary recipes thing a bust for any legendary under max_level.
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Reply #597 on: March 08, 2014, 11:35:12 AM

Suppose you had 200 million. What would you do with it? Combine more gems? Craft more stuff that you wouldn't have the mats for until you salvage enough?

I'm not sure that gold is going to be something that requires hoarding given the no trading mechanism.

Use it to pay the Mystic to reroll stats on your rares and legendaries?

I saw a youtube clip of someone demoing that from beta and it gets into the millions fast (and cranks up higher and higher on every reroll).
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Reply #598 on: March 08, 2014, 01:52:39 PM

Took a second look at this. for some reason the first game I played had defaulted to Torment 1 and dropping it back to hard didn't actually set it to that level even though it said hard mode in-game. Add to that my characters were pre-loot 2.0 and had no paragon levels, I was always going to be toast. Even gemmed and running a few old epics my characters were wet noodles with 1/4 the HP or less than they have now. Hence rage.

Ran my witch doctor, warrior and mage through on hard and got kitted up in better gear and the game felt a lot better. Al three could tear through content once they had "modern" gear ad I bumped the level up (though not to torment yet) until they started taking too much damage on elite packs.

I'm struggling with the DH and Monk though. Monk was my end game runner until I called it quits and it just doesn't feel like it's in a good spot. Still gearing it up though. DH feels as bad but while it was my second character, I've never felt happy with my builds on her.

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Reply #599 on: March 08, 2014, 02:05:21 PM

For those in the clan, feel free to just drop in my game if you want. I'm usually running on weeknights in Torment 2 or higher after 9:30PM EDT.

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Reply #600 on: March 08, 2014, 07:37:46 PM

For those in the clan, feel free to just drop in my game if you want. I'm usually running on weeknights in Torment 2 or higher after 9:30PM EDT.

We need to start running Torment 3. I think we have the dps and survivability for it.

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Reply #601 on: March 08, 2014, 10:03:30 PM

I think it's probably time to move up to Torment 1. Soulflame and I were just running roughshod over Act 4 this evening.
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Reply #602 on: March 09, 2014, 12:05:47 AM

I tried out Torment 1 earlier with my fire wizard, and it was doable.  I think I might be able to do Torment 2, although I almost certainly will run the risk of death.
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Reply #603 on: March 09, 2014, 12:27:15 AM

32 to 50 on my barb in a day.  At 46 I bumped it to Master and was doing a level every 15 minutes. 

Loot is fun again.  Some of the legendary weapons have really cool effects.  One was a weapon that procced four ghost cows to help me kill stuff.
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Reply #604 on: March 09, 2014, 01:06:08 AM

The skills tied to DPS is still retarded.  Wife has a wizard running around with a 2 handed mace.  Totes Clownshoes.

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Quinton
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Reply #605 on: March 09, 2014, 01:38:23 AM

My Arcane Wizard is solo-ing Torment I pretty comfortably now.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Quinton-1657/hero/40977558

EDIT: Torment II's not too bad, but gotta really keep on my toes, one wrong move with an elite pack and splat.

I still haven't quite figured out how to make my Monk survivable.  Been trying various builds, haven't hit on anything that's working for me.  Not sure if it's gear, build, or skill that's missing, but I'm dying to elite packs on Master repeatedly.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2014, 04:41:39 AM by Quinton »
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Reply #606 on: March 09, 2014, 03:41:24 AM

The skills tied to DPS is still retarded.  Wife has a wizard running around with a 2 handed mace.  Totes Clownshoes.


So am I.  Had to. It gave me around a 40% boost in dps.

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Reply #607 on: March 09, 2014, 05:48:12 AM

I'm not judging.  I'm saying it's retarded design wise.

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Quinton
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Reply #608 on: March 09, 2014, 06:20:47 AM

I wonder if loot2.0 were loot1.0, perhaps we wouldn't have the silly "almost everyone can wield almost every weapontype" because the loot system could have favored current-class-useful weapons.  Is getting mostly wands and staves as loot more or less silly than being a 2h-sword wizard (as I was for a while)?
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Reply #609 on: March 09, 2014, 06:22:35 AM

"Top 3 Legendary Farming Runs" from a thread I found on the Reddit monk forum.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eSXubj5b_Q&list=UUUnTZlOy4fae-Zk90VV3Fzw

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Reply #610 on: March 09, 2014, 08:25:41 AM

I still haven't quite figured out how to make my Monk survivable.  Been trying various builds, haven't hit on anything that's working for me.  Not sure if it's gear, build, or skill that's missing, but I'm dying to elite packs on Master repeatedly.

While I am not 60 yet (thus gear is non-optimal due to leveling) I keep having to turn the difficulty down to hard on my Monk, otherwise I'll do fine for a bit then get swarmed with a bad elite pack and get destroyed over and over again.
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Reply #611 on: March 09, 2014, 11:55:21 AM

I'm not judging.  I'm saying it's retarded design wise.


This isn't really an issue of game design, it's an issue of aesthetics.

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Reply #612 on: March 09, 2014, 12:38:25 PM

I don't agree at all.

You may as well have 3 weapon types.  Int, Str and Dex.  Once again, you're not making any character 'sticky'.  At all.

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Reply #613 on: March 09, 2014, 11:57:10 PM

I actually quite like not being forced to use only wands & staves on my caster.

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Reply #614 on: March 10, 2014, 02:38:11 AM

I don't agree at all.

You may as well have 3 weapon types.  Int, Str and Dex.  Once again, you're not making any character 'sticky'.  At all.


I sort of agree.  But the problem, in my opinion, has more to do with the skill system than the weapons themselves.  I have no problem with a mage using a giant mace in principle.  The problem comes from the fact that my mage using a giant mace is the exact same as a mage using a staff because weapons in general are just stat sticks to fuel your skill damage.

The more I think about it though, the less I can really quite define why it's wrong.  If I think about other games, I'll still going to be choosing the highest DPS weapon for a physical damage character almost all the time, or the best stat-stick for my caster characters.  Diablo 3 doesn't deviate from that all too much in practice, but it definitely does feel a bit different.  Maybe it is because I can imagine using the exact same weapon on a variety of characters if only a a single stat rolled on it were different.

Given two randomly rolled "Unique Sword of Baddassery": 1000 dps, 100 str + 4 stats = Wow, great barbarian weapon.  1000 dps, 100 int + 4 stats, wow great Wizard weapon!  I do believe the loot overhaul has helped to change this some, but I haven't played the new version so I can't comment. 

So, in some sense the lack of limitations on weapon use does make things feel a bit too samey sometimes.  Maybe it comes from that moment of seeing a rare Staff drop and knowing as a Wizard "Oh! This could be for me!" vs. just that constant stream of items dropping, any of which could have happened to roll the stats that work for you? When I was playing Diablo 2 I knew exactly what I was looking for.  In Diablo 3, especially before you get into max level farming, it's just kind of anything can be an upgrade.  Which also puts you in the position of laboriously checking everything on your Mage to see if this thing happened to role +INT.  I'm just spitballing at this point.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2014, 02:41:42 AM by Malakili »
apocrypha
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Reply #615 on: March 10, 2014, 04:05:59 AM

I get what you're saying. At the end of the day even with Loot 2.0 the loot just isn't very interesting and that's connected to the skill system.

On the one hand I like the flexibility of the skill system and I like that there's few restrictions on what loot you can use, but on the other hand it feels homogenous. The same problem exists now as when D3 first launched - there is no loot that would define a character in the way that D2 loot did. I've never yet had anything drop that's made me think "Woah! I'm so gonna roll a new <class> to use that!".

I actually think that the increased chance of your primary stat rolling on loot in Loot 2.0 compounds that. You're much less likely to get something drop that'd be good for an alt now.

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Reply #616 on: March 10, 2014, 04:11:40 AM

Yeah, that is a problem.  Wife and I ended up running both our Wizards alongside each other simply because it's easier to trade loot.  When playing with Barb and Wizard, you're almost guaranteed that something dropping isn't going to get traded. 


What makes me laugh hard about all this, is they've changed the game for the better and the people complaining now are the same people complaining before because the fundamentals are still ... feeling wrong somehow.  It's hugely amusing.

Plus, fuck that loser.

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Reply #617 on: March 10, 2014, 05:45:02 AM

So, is the only thing in the expansion worth a damn Adventure mode?

I mean, none of us care about the story so I doubt any of us care about Act 5.  What else is there that makes the expansion worth $40?
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Reply #618 on: March 10, 2014, 06:24:53 AM

New Class, The Mystic, Adventure Mode, New Loots.

I think that about covers it.

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Reply #619 on: March 10, 2014, 06:47:34 AM



What makes me laugh hard about all this, is they've changed the game for the better and the people complaining now are the same people complaining before because the fundamentals are still ... feeling wrong somehow.  It's hugely amusing.



Well, I actually liked the game more or less before, and I will like it more now, but I can't deny there are some core underlying problems.  I think the skill system is a big part of it.  I think I'll take another quick stab at this:

They have effectively eliminated auto-attacks.  Yeah, they replaced it with varying *kinds* of auto attacks, in effect, but it also diminishes the importance of your weapon, not just in terms of its damage but actually feeling like it is the weapon doing something, rather than just being a stat-stick for the skill, that is the real thing.

On top of that, all classes use the same skill system.  Ironically, although all classes used mana in Diablo 2, the classes felt a lot more different to me, and each character was different based on which skills they took.  Now to be fair, no respec and all that jazz has been rehashed 1000 times and isn't my point. 

Classes feel a lot less different because their skills are all essentially the same.  It is the reason I don't like Dungeons and Dragons 4th edition as much as 3rd edition.  Everything kind of gets ground down into the same gameplay style.  A power you can use all the time, a power you can use less of the time, but still often.  A big power you can use rarely but is a big deal. 

Even though the classes have different resource systems, they ultimately feel pretty samey because they follow the same kind of skill design principles.  an Auto-Attack power, a damage dealer you use to spend your main resource, whatever it is, a bigger slower harder hitting spell of some kind, a survival skill of some kind, a utility/situational skill of some kind.   I know you aren't absolutely locked into that way of doing it, but there is a kind of sameness there.  Skills 1-4, an auto-attack replacer, a common thing you hit a lot.  That's EVERY CHARACTER.

In Diablo 2 I might run a paladin that runs lots of auras and auto attacks/zeals a lot.  I might be a barbarian that uses weapon specialization and minimal active skills and just run around beating things into the ground.  I might be a sorceress who teleports into the thick of things and uses nova to PBAoE down groups.  I might be a necromancer with 5 different kinds of summons and bone spirit.  It wasn't just what skills you had, it was how many you chose to skill up, did you want to focus more on passives or actives, were auto attacks important?  Etc. 

All that is lost when you go to the Diablo 3 skill system.  It has its advantages, you can respec to anything and don't have to grind up lots of different characters if you don't want to.  You don't have shenanigans like skill point saving.  You don't risk wasting skill points, etc etc.  The classes still play differently based on what skills they have and what skills you choose, but all characters have more or less the same "template" for lack of a better word at the moment.

No matter what they do with the loot, this is going to still be the case.  The new uniques DO help some from the look of things.   But even doing something like limiting gear choices based on class more wouldn't change that underlying feeling of sameyness, I suspect.
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Reply #620 on: March 10, 2014, 07:34:20 AM

You know, I was going to write almost that same post myself, but thought people will be really tired of hearing me ragging on this game.  But yes, you're quite right.

Here is my generator attack, here is my main attack, here is my immunity/heal when it goes wrong, here's my funky and here's my BIG HEAVY HITTER.

It's kinda samey.

I wonder if the Crusader will be different.

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Reply #621 on: March 10, 2014, 07:49:57 AM

Who would have thought Ironwood and me would be agreeing about Diablo 3.
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Reply #622 on: March 10, 2014, 08:12:07 AM

I think it's easy to agree about the basics.  We can talk about how bananas are yellow all day, but if you like bananas and I'm allergic, we're never going to agree that they're good.

 Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

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Reply #623 on: March 10, 2014, 08:31:15 AM

I enjoy bananas.

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Reply #624 on: March 10, 2014, 10:48:40 AM

there is no loot that would define a character in the way that D2 loot did. I've never yet had anything drop that's made me think "Woah! I'm so gonna roll a new <class> to use that!".

Hrm. I seem to get stuff that pushes me in different spec directions all the time.

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Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
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Reply #625 on: March 10, 2014, 10:52:07 AM

Like what ?

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Reply #626 on: March 10, 2014, 10:57:50 AM

Well, for example I got a legendary bow on my DH yesterday that turns elemental arrow from a hatred spender into a hatred generator, that's a pretty big push in that direction. There are a bunch of legendaries that do stuff like that. But, even speaking more generally, if a super nice item with 20% extra damage on fire attacks drops, it's a pretty big incentive to try out an all fire spec, I think.

It's certainly fair to say the fact that the game tailors loot to the class you're playing makes it less likely that you're going to get a drop that makes you want to make an entirely new character of a different class to use it, but I don't think it's true to say that the gear that drops doesn't push you in interesting directions on the class you're already playing.

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Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
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Reply #627 on: March 10, 2014, 11:01:09 AM

Yes, but all that stuff is recent additions because they got it wrong and even then its not sticky. You get a weapon with higher dps and you're probably changing back.  awesome, for real

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Reply #628 on: March 10, 2014, 11:05:53 AM

Well remember, anything that has a little filled-in dot next to it on the weapon description isn't being factored into displayed DPS. That includes a lot of special legendary properties, damage type boosts, skill boosts, etc. So a lot of the time it is actually not necessarily going to be correct to change weapons to get a paper DPS increase. If I'm using all cold skills and am stacking +cold %, none of that shows in the raw dps stat on the screen, so I could actually really weaken myself by going for a weapon that the tooltip calls a generic dps upgrade.

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
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Reply #629 on: March 10, 2014, 11:10:37 AM

That sounds more like the kind of thing I was thinking of. I've not had anything like that drop for me yet though  Ohhhhh, I see.

I'm kinda bored with the areas too, one thing I am looking forward to with Act 5 is just somewhere new!

"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
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