Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

[jgsugden]

Top 15% of Prime Time - there are 3 hours of Prime Time each night.  There are 5 main networks and dozens of Cable Networks making programming that gets mainstream attention (TNT, TBS, AMC, FX, FXX, USA, ESPN, Lifetime, Showtime, HBO, Cinemax, Starz, Encore, etc....) and we get that new programming for roughly 30 weeks out of the year (although most shows do not go more than 22 episodes in a year, there are often shows with new episodes int he same slot after the show takes a break, like Dome on CBS filling the spot of a show that was on during the 'main' season), and each show accounts for between 10 and 22 hours of TV.  All in all, we have about 200 shows a year going on in Prime Time that get some degree of mainstream attention - not counting the fringe %!$# that isn't even a blip on the ratings.

%@$# yeah, this was worthy of top 15%  Breaking Bad good?  Better than the worst episode of BB, but the majority of Breaking Bad (and a number of  other AMC shows) was much better than this episode.  Better than Parks and Rec?  There were some stinkers in the P&R history, but I think P & R was better most of the time than this episode.  However, they're not the competition at the 85% level.  85% is above good episodes on CW shows.  It means it is darn good for an ABC, NBC, CBS or Fox show, but we've seen better hours on each of those networks.  For comparison sake, I'd say the first two episodes of Sleepy Hollow were top 60 to 70%.  The S.H.I.E.L.D. pilot was much better.

However, I have high expectations.  I think we'll see this show be widely considered to be in the highest level of top 4 network shows.  And, in time, the show will have some episodes that will be legendarily good tv - like Buffy's "The Body" or "Hush".

[Ingmar]

I don't see how this show can sustain the budget required to make it. When they're a season in and they get their budget slashed Chuck style it's going to look pretty bad.

[Lakov_Sanite]

I don't see how this show can sustain the budget required to make it. When they're a season in and they get their budget slashed Chuck style it's going to look pretty bad.

Of the shows potential issues(and there are many) I don't see budget slashing as part of it.  This show is more or less going to be a 42min commercial each week for upcoming Marvel/Disney movies.  I retract my "if" it makes it to season two as well because having thought about it, unless the show is utterly horrible on every level they will be very reluctant to cancel or slash the budget of this show.

[Trippy]

If they include enough tie-ins to the movies they'll probably just consider whatever losses the show incurs as marketing costs for the movies. E.g. they spent an estimated $100 million marketing The Avengers and let's say they plan on spending $100 million to market Thor: The Dark World and Captain America: The Winter Solider combined (the two Marvel movies that will released during the show's first season assuming it doesn't get cancelled). If S.H.I.E.L.D. is losing them, say, $500K per epsiode (e.g. their cost is $1 million per episode but they are only bringing in $500K in revenue), that's basically $11 - $12 million in marketing costs for the movies.

[jgsugden]

Agreed on budget - they are not slashing it grossly, although they'll continue to refine and look ways to sustain quality at a reduced price.  If anything, I expect them to get better at using their budget - Whedon admitted that using a Special Effects budget properly is something that he struggled with in Avengers.  Regardless, I think this show will have Whedon team writing, a high special effects budget (when needed - Whedon won't be afraid of having an episode that requires no substantial SE budget if the story does not benefit from it) and quality guest acting throughout.  That spells success to me. 

And as for the racial comments earlier - the scientist referenced was portrayed by Ron Glass.  If he is going to be a recurring on the show, I think you have little to worry about.  Not because he is an actor of a certain race, but because he is an actor that chooses roles carefully and has certain standards.  Give it a season and see how you feel. 

I'd be curious to see people list 'broadcast' network (ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox, CW) shows they believe will be better than S.H.I.E.L.D. over the next 3 years.  My expectation for this show is high, and I think it will be a strong contender for best network show by the end of the first season.

[Trippy]

I'd be curious to see people list 'broadcast' network (ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox, CW) shows they believe will be better than S.H.I.E.L.D. over the next 3 years.  My expectation for this show is high, and I think it will be a strong contender for best network show by the end of the first season.

Define "better".

[Merusk]

Next 3 years? So now we're future casting to counter your Marvel fanboy hard-on?  Sure, that's legit.

Right now Brooklyn 99 is better than S.H.I.E.L.D. based solely on what we've seen.

[Fordel]

Like I said, other then the wank near the end at the standoff, I enjoyed my hour. I guess I wasn't expecting the next dramatic masterpiece or whatever you want to call it, so I wasn't let down.


I agree with the general sentiment that generic muscle/assassin man is utterly forgettable. He's just there to fill the handsome young straight white male quota.



I do think though, that if this show wasn't SHIELD, but some random new property, I would not give the slightest of shits about it. That probably doesn't reflect well on it. It is SHIELD though and it gave me more Coulson, so I'm good.

[Raph]

I thought it was fun, but not yet good.

That said, it was also a BIG HIT -- like, the most successful premiere in the last four years, or something. So they now have a lot of rope.

[Trippy]

I thought it was fun, but not yet good.

That said, it was also a BIG HIT -- like, the most successful premiere in the last four years, or something. So they now have a lot of rope.

Highest rated new drama, in the 18 - 49 demographic, since November 3, 2009.

[Tannhauser]

Next 3 years? So now we're future casting to counter your Marvel fanboy hard-on?  Sure, that's legit.

Right now Brooklyn 99 is better than S.H.I.E.L.D. based solely on what we've seen.

Well enjoy it while you can fanboy, because MAoS almost tripled it in ratings.

I'm cautiously optimistic about MAoS.  The pilot felt uneven though.  Was disappointed the guy wasn't Luke Cage, or another recognizable hero/villains, just a generic guy (AFAIK).

[Lakov_Sanite]

No one thought the premiere wasn't going to be huge, what crack are you smoking?  Viewer size for a premiere has zero to do with a shows quality or lack thereof.

[Tannhauser]

Well I say MAoS was better than B99.  Opinions, see how they work?

AND it had almost 3x the ratings of B99

AND both are on at the  same time.

SO I predict MAoS will cause B99 to be cancelled or moved.

I hope this clears up your confusion.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Well I say MAoS was better than B99.  Opinions, see how they work?

AND it had almost 3x the ratings of B99

AND both are on at the  same time.

SO I predict MAoS will cause B99 to be cancelled or moved.

I hope this clears up your confusion.

No sure who or what you are arguing here.  Again ratings != quality. 

[Fordel]

ComicBookGirl19's take : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zEUJ4nbnz4

I think she has a fair spin on it.

[Khaldun]

One thing I wasn't clear on at the end is whether "Rising Tide" is just Whedon Female Character #99's fiction (e.g., she *is* "Rising Tide") or whether we're meant to think there is an actual organization out there with that name.

Obviously the Centipede people are for reals, but that seems like an AIM kind of thing.

[MahrinSkel]

Since they were active in Paris, it seems like they're more of an Anonymous surrogate than just a figment/front for Hacker Chick.

--Dave

[Margalis]

What are you guys talking about?

It's better than most network TV...k. Who cares? Network TV is almost universally trash. It got high ratings...sure. It's a new TV series that ties into the biggest movement in movies, of course it was going to get high initial ratings. It could have been 45 minutes of poop drying on a sidewalk and it would have gotten high ratings.

How is any of this relevant?

[jgsugden]

Hey... Hate all you want.  I'm going to sit back and enjoy.  Whedon + Marvel + big budget in a series?  Fuck yeah.  The only real problems I had with the show so far seem to be pacing issues that are typical of one hour drama pilots.  I think you'll either come around or start straining yourselves with the effort of coming up with excuses to hate.  I'm going to wait for the haters to join those of us enjoying the ride.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Glamour hacker is still stupid but as I said before the show has enough going for it to ignore it.  For me the pass/fail of this show rests solely on how they use the universe available to them.  If they ignore all but movie continuity then it's a huge loss.

[Margalis]

The only real problems I had with the show so far seem to be pacing issues that are typical of one hour drama pilots.

It seems like a stretch to call this a drama.

For me the pass/fail of this show rests solely on how they use the universe available to them.  If they ignore all but movie continuity then it's a huge loss.

I suspect the show will be pretty self-contained and ignore most movie continuity as well.

[Phildo]

I liked this show.

[Ghambit]

Why is everyone saying "Whedon this and Whedon that" when he doesn't even have real control over the show (there's like a million producers, directors, writers, and the thing is attached to Marvel/ABC/Disney).  If he did, the pilot likely wouldn't have sucked as hard as it did (relatively speaking).  Honestly, does anyone here think that pilot would've been anything like it was if Whedon had complete control with a similar budget?  There's no way.

This is why most people are "meh."  It's flat, corporate television for drones.  I'll still watch it though 'cause like, wtf else is there?  

On the flipside, I will say I'm optimistic because most of the actors have subtly said "yah, the pilot is kinda weak compared to epis. 2 and 3."

[Evildrider]

Whedon had to stop Dr. Horrible 2 because of his time doing this show.  I doubt he's as hands off as you think.

[Ghambit]

Whedon had to stop Dr. Horrible 2 because of his time doing this show.  I doubt he's as hands off as you think.

Just because he's spending time on the show (qualifying his paycheck) doesn't mean he's as hands-on as you think either.  Vision takes a backseat to the dollar most every time.

[Hayduke]

This is horrifyingly bad.  I can't believe Arrow is better than this.

[Trippy]

Why is everyone saying "Whedon this and Whedon that" when he doesn't even have real control over the show (there's like a million producers, directors, writers, and the thing is attached to Marvel/ABC/Disney).  If he did, the pilot likely wouldn't have sucked as hard as it did (relatively speaking).  Honestly, does anyone here think that pilot would've been anything like it was if Whedon had complete control with a similar budget?  There's no way.

This is why most people are "meh."  It's flat, corporate television for drones.  I'll still watch it though 'cause like, wtf else is there?  

On the flipside, I will say I'm optimistic because most of the actors have subtly said "yah, the pilot is kinda weak compared to epis. 2 and 3."

He wrote and directed the pilot.

[MahrinSkel]

Am I the only one that remembers the pilots for Buffy (especially the un-aired original pilot)?  Or the Angel pilot (hell, the whole first season)?  It's not unusual for a series pilot to be weak, this was not actively bad in the way that would make me expect the series to sputter.  Coulsen was good, Fitz/Simmons had some good comedic timing, Not-Hawkeye was an empty suit but, again, not actually *bad*.

I saw enough potential that I'll stick with it for a while.

--Dave

[MediumHigh]

This is horrifyingly bad.  I can't believe Arrow is better than this.

I don't think I can watch a show worse than arrow. Like my eyrs will bleed from their sockets...

[Velorath]

Whedon had to stop Dr. Horrible 2 because of his time doing this show.  I doubt he's as hands off as you think.

Just because he's spending time on the show (qualifying his paycheck) doesn't mean he's as hands-on as you think either.  Vision takes a backseat to the dollar most every time.

I'm not sure why you think they'd hand the guy Avengers (and also get him to rewrite a few Thor 2 scenes), and then for some reason limit him on the TV series.

As for my thoughts on the series, it's one episode so far and this series is starting at the same time as I (and a ton of other people) are watching the last episodes of Breaking Bad. So yeah, by comparison to a lot of stuff out there it's nothing amazing. It's family friendly network television by necessity. I like Whedon and Marvel, so as the show finds its legs and starts to develop the characters I'll probably be increasingly entertained but I can understand why people are lukewarm on it.

[Raguel]

ComicBookGirl19's take : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zEUJ4nbnz4

I think she has a fair spin on it.

That's pretty much my opinion, but I liked it a bit more than she did. I think the biggest problem is that the show spent so much time on the two worst characters; the best thing about this show is Coulson.

[jgsugden]

Why is everyone saying "Whedon this and Whedon that" when he doesn't even have real control over the show (there's like a million producers, directors, writers, and the thing is attached to Marvel/ABC/Disney).  If he did, the pilot likely wouldn't have sucked as hard as it did (relatively speaking).  Honestly, does anyone here think that pilot would've been anything like it was if Whedon had complete control with a similar budget?  There's no way...

According to a guy named Joss Whedon, you're wrong.  He has flat out said that although there were notes, Marvel (both in terms of MAoS, Avengers and his work related to the other films) is more hands off than any network or studio he has worked under.  Marvel certainly dictated some elements.  Whedon and his people (including his family - who will be hands on when he isn't) came up with the characters, plot and stories.   He is building his part of one of Marvel's universes.  He has freedom to go after available Marvel properties and incorporate them, or to come up with ideas that Marvel might pull into the comics.  I'd be shocked if we don't see the MAoS team in Marvel main continuity comic form by summer 2015.

[MediumHigh]

I think Wheadon peaked as a writer a long time ago. Look no further than doll house. I don't know the premise is inherently uninspiring.

[Hayduke]

This is horrifyingly bad.  I can't believe Arrow is better than this.

I don't think I can watch a show worse than arrow. Like my eyrs will bleed from their sockets...

Oh Arrow is bad.  But this is much worse.  It's a beta pilot excuse doesn't wash.

[Velorath]

I think Wheadon peaked as a writer a long time ago. Look no further than doll house. I don't know the premise is inherently uninspiring.

I thought Cabin in the Woods and Avengers were both pretty well written.