Camelot Unchained

[Sjofn]

If people had doubts about Jacobs, Warhammer completely solidified those as facts. One of the reasons I ditched so quickly was I could see the same attitude coming from the company about issues and I'd already danced that dance. Waiting on metrics. FIFO fixes. etc.

Don't forget complaining suchandsuch a thing that needed to be changed was "hardcoded" and thus impossible.

[Fabricated]

Zack Braff put up a kickstarter for a self-made sequel to Garden State the other day.

It has made more than $1.5 mill.

[Mithas]

Zack Braff put up a kickstarter for a self-made sequel to Garden State the other day.

It has made more than $1.5 mill.

How is there demand for this?

[HaemishM]

Why would there even need to be a sequel made narratively speaking?

[Fabricated]

I don't know but it's about 10 times more popular than seeing Mark Jacobs make another square wheel.

[apocrypha]

MJ really working the PR mill atm. Very breathless interview on Eurogamer where the interviewer has his tongue so far up Jacob's arse he's possibly become an intestinal parasite.

This quote made me roll my eyes:

Camelot Unchained isn't home and dry yet, and there's still just as much chance it could fail. If that happens and the game is well short of its goal then "unfortunately we can't [carry on]". "But if there's enough support to assure me and the other investors that there's a strong enough core that really want this game, then it would be stupid not to try again."

I.e. even if the KS fails he'll be back!. 

[UnSub]

Of course he will.

If he drops the amount to US$1.5m, he'd make it next time easy.

[Hutch]

But is this KS about funding game development? Or is it about attracting more traditional investors?

In the latter case, $2 million looks a lot better than $1 or $1.5 million. Getting a lesser amount is going to be even less impressive, after failing to hit the original target.

[Venkman]

Same thing as RG's Avatar KS: it's just to have a datapoint to show to real investers? "Look, we got X people to show faith in the form of Y dollars, that's alot right??"

Unfortunately, it's not. No real publisher is going to put $30-50mm behind a $2mm KS on the strength of someone who hasn't made a game in a decade nor someone who parlayed a minor success into a high profile failure. The market is too flooded, all of the publisher's backers are sending in the latest press releases about the much cheaper and far less risky mobile app space, the next generation of consoles are going to suck up most of the attention for a year or two*, and the demographic for the kind of games these old school MMO developers want to make is aging out of being a real market force.

tl;dr: there's a reason they need to go on KS first.

If he drops the amount to US$1.5m, he'd make it next time easy.

He'll need to rebrand it or wait 5 years so people forget. Otherwise it's actually disintentifying to back it a second time for the people interested in the dream the first time.

* Maybe.

[UnSub]

It's a touch embarrassing for CU not to be fully funded (and I won't be surprised if a 'mystery donor' shows up at the last minute) but the aim of the Kickstarter was to raise funds for investors. Jacobs can some humility, perhaps rename the project from its working title of CU and say he's learned a lot from the experience. Then relist at a US$1.5m target and have some stretch goal at US$2m that makes it very attractive to get there.

AFAIK, he's looking for investors to kick in US$5m+ into the project for a total budget of US$10m.

[Venkman]

So then he's just looking for a Unity FB game?

[waffel]

Less than 48 hours to go:
http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/13861848/camelot-unchained/

Damn thing is starting to pick up speed  

[trias_e]

Yeah, it'll surely make it at this point.  As an ex-DAOC'er I will have to keep an eye on it, but my expectations are incredibly low.  If it turns out not to suck it will be a pleasant surprise.  As others have said, I would be more interested in it if Jacobs wasn't involved.  He was in charge while DAOC was run into the ground with idiotic PvE expansions, and then he was in charge while WAR utterly squandered its potential, so the same sort of thing will probably happen again.

[Soukyan]

Yeah, it'll surely make it at this point.  As an ex-DAOC'er I will have to keep an eye on it, but my expectations are incredibly low.  If it turns out not to suck it will be a pleasant surprise.  As others have said, I would be more interested in it if Jacobs wasn't involved.  He was in charge while DAOC was run into the ground with idiotic PvE expansions, and then he was in charge while WAR utterly squandered its potential, so the same sort of thing will probably happen again.

Third time's a charm? 

[Merusk]

This was being trumpeted about in Neverwinter general last night.  People's response to "No MMO has ever had complex gameplay." was "Camelot was and Camelot Unchained will, too!"

There are zealots for every awful thing.

[Nebu]

There are zealots for every awful thing.

You didn't like DAoC.  We get it.

[luckton]

I read an article on PA about how there was apparently a spam-campaign done on the media to help reach the goal.  Might explain the last minute rises.

[Fabricated]

24 Hours to do $250,000? Either a angel investor or some sort of ridiculous spam campaign is required and the latter I doubt will work.

[Paelos]

Less than 48 hours to go:
http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/13861848/camelot-unchained/

Damn thing is starting to pick up speed  

There's something incredibly fishy about their tiers. Five people gave $10,000 to an unmade game? 25 gave $5k. Almost 40 gave $1250. 100 gave $1000. 170 gave $500.

The most ridiculous is that over 1200 people gave $250. Are we living in a universe where that makes sense? Over 10% of your backers are willing to part with $250 for promises? FFS that's the boxes plus 3 years solid of a WoW subscription.

[Phred]

There's something incredibly fishy about their tiers. Five people gave $10,000 to an unmade game? 25 gave $5k. Almost 40 gave $1250. 100 gave $1000. 170 gave $500.

.

I think you've uncovered the scam here. They're all ringers to sucker people into donating money. Good detective work.
The ce kickstart in reality made $53.45.

[trias_e]

24 Hours to do $250,000? Either a angel investor or some sort of ridiculous spam campaign is required and the latter I doubt will work.

It's gone from 1.45 to 1.7 mil in the last 3 days. Another 250k in the next 44 hours is pretty much guaranteed, especially considering it's usual to see a big jump in funding occur on the last day.

[Mithas]

I hope it does reach its funding goal. The train wreck will be tons of fun to watch.

[Merusk]

There are zealots for every awful thing.

You didn't like DAoC.  We get it.

I meant CU. No, I didn't like Camelot but for entirely different reasons than it being awful.  You're just too used to being dogpiled on this one. Thicken that skin, son!

[Paelos]

I liked DAOC. This is trash.

[Nebu]

I liked DAOC. This is trash.

What is trash?  THERE IS NO GAME.

[Ginaz]

I liked DAOC. This is trash.

What is trash?  THERE IS NO GAME.

Exactly.

[Phred]

I liked DAOC. This is trash.

What is trash?  THERE IS NO GAME.

Exactly.

But the game in his head is trash. It's sort of like a reverse fanbois thing.

[Merusk]

When you have a track record of failure you can't use your one success (that you later trashed, pushing it towards the 'failure' pile) as 'proof' your next project will be awesome.  The default assumption should be "Crap until proven otherwise."  

When you have that record AND you pull a bullshit kickstarter stunt to get other suckers to fund your attempt? Yeah, calling it Trash is a pretty good call.

[Nebu]

When you have a track record of failure you can't use your one success (that you later trashed, pushing it towards the 'failure' pile) as 'proof' your next project will be awesome.  

Let's be objective here.  The guy developed a game in 2001 that is still up and running.  He developed a second game with a HUGE budget entrusted to him and later merged his company with BioWare (earning a pretty penny along the way, I'd assume). 

You don't like the guy's design choices.  I get it.  While the guy has made some questionable design decisions, I'd hardly call his career a track record of failure. 

[Lantyssa]

While a personal success story, I wouldn't call it a design success.  The game is played by a small number of die-hards.

I bet Algernon still has people playing it... does that make it successful?

[Nebu]

Saying someone is 'not a failure' means simply that. 

[Paelos]

While the guy has made some questionable design decisions, I'd hardly call his career a track record of failure. 

If all you said was true, he wouldn't need Kickstarter to pimp this idea.

It's trash, junk, vapor, whatever you prefer to call it. This won't get made. He's not even using the actual funds to make the game. He's using to to pimp the freaking idea to other people so he can make the game. If you look at it objectively, the guy was in charge of one of the biggest bleedouts of the MMO landscape until SWTOR hit the scene.

[Nebu]

In this economy, I doubt anyone is willing to invest much in a game that has, at best, the potential of filling a niche.  I also don't know how much of the failure of WAR is directly attributable to MJ as I've never worked for the guy.  I will admit that WAR was a huge bag of lost potential.  I knew that the moment I saw all the emphasis on PvE.  MJ and PvE just don't belong together... ever.

[tazelbain]

But MJ designed the WAR crafting system himself!

[Merusk]

Were you not involved in the Warhammer beta forum we had going here, Nebu?  To hear Mark talk at that time he was pretty directly involved in most of it.