Star Trek: Into Darkness

[eldaec]

I really struggle with the idea that Abrams films are worse than the TNG films.

Or that first contact and insurrection are above a line where you imply that things should be allowed to exist.

The TNG films are truly an offence against the art form.

[Lakov_Sanite]

If you are putting the new trek movies behind the tng movies then just...go
Home, lock your doors and turn off all media cause you are stuck in a past which never happened and reality will never be able to pierce the bubble of your nostalgia.

[Samwise]

I'd put the first Abrams movie ahead of all the TNG movies, but this latest one... I don't know.  Better visuals for sure, but the script is just so terrible.  I guess I'd put it ahead of Nemesis, if only because I don't want to live in a world where it's even possible to make a worse Star Trek movie than Nemesis.

[Lakov_Sanite]

For lulz, check rotten tomatoes for their list of trek movies, none of us synch up with that.

[Tannhauser]

Nemesis is better than the one with the asshole immortal squatters.  I seem to have a mental block with the movies name.  Thank god.  Nemesis had Romulans and a space battle.

How different starship captains react to an alien ship attacking:

Kirk:  FIRE!  FIRE EVERYTHING!
Picard:  Conference.
Sisko:  How DARE you come HERE and IMPOSE your weapons fire on INNOCENT people!
Janeway:  Derp.
Archer:  Furrows brow.  Open hailing frequencies!  Why won't they talk!  Polarize the hull plating.  Where's my beagle?

I don't know why I typed that.

[Ratman_tf]

If you are putting the new trek movies behind the tng movies then just...go
Home, lock your doors and turn off all media cause you are stuck in a past which never happened and reality will never be able to pierce the bubble of your nostalgia.

I'm almost there. I only come out once in a while to scowl at the fun everyone's having.

[Megrim]

* nuSpock, realises that he has just lost one of the two people whom he can actually call a friend (Uhura being the other one, in case this isn't obvious) - a thing he has not actually experienced ever, even in Vulcan Juniour High.

Except that is HAS happened to him in the first movie by losing his mother and most of his entire fucking race (since he considers himself Vulcan).

You misread =3

I meant that he hasn't had any friends, let alone lost any. Not that he hasn't experienced loss.

[HaemishM]

I really struggle with the idea that Abrams films are worse than the TNG films.

They aren't. I'd put Into Darkness just above First Contact, and then all the other TNG movies fall into the shithole down below it with the shitshow that was Star Trek V.

[Ragnoros]

Saw this. Great action movie. Yeah, it has little to do with traditional/old star trek. Breaking the prime directive, and probably most of the others, in the first five minutes was JJ's way of saying: "I give no fucks about your nerdom, here is something fun instead." Beyond that, I am aware that further viewings or examination would probably bring the whole plot crashing down on itself. But it was fine the first go, so whatever.

My issues.

[eldaec]

TJ Hooker Kirk would not have waited 5 minutes to break the prime directive.

[Samwise]

there should have been no gravity, as they were all in freefall.

I like picking nits as much as the next guy, but there's no gravity in space either.  Star Trek ships have artificial gravity emitters (same "action at a distance" tech as makes tractor beams and inertial dampers work) so that you can walk around in earthlike gravity while floating in space or accelerating at impossible speeds in an arbitrary direction.  No reason it'd be any different while falling toward a planet.

[Typhon]

1) When they loose power they are in a high Earth orbit (as you can tell because the Enterprise's bottom is facing the Earth) and they will continue that orbit for a really really long time, ... unless!
2) They pull up to planet Earth and come to a complete STOP (which would actually require expending energy), so when they lose power suddenly they are falling toward at (something close to) 9.8m/s^2, which is ridiculous because gravity follows the inverse square rule and they are really far from Earth, and they will slowly fall for a couple days before hitting the Earth (yes, a guess)...  unless!
3) We're wrong about them being in high Earth orbit!  The reason the Enterprise is belly-down is because of emergency protocols.  The emergency systems are keeping some power on so folks can move about the ship, and in these situations the Enterprise reorients itself to fall belly down.  Ok, that works.  1) Enterprise was still moving straight at the Earth when main power cut, and it's belly moved to the direction of motion due to emergency protocols, which are also doing their best to keeping power to life support (lights, air flow, gravity).

Whew, I feel soooo much better about this now.

I liked the movie.  I fully expected to have to have mental blinders on because the folks making a movie need tons of people to go see it, and tons of people don't know shit about Newton or his laws and they don't want to be taught physics while seeing an action flick. 

Funny thought: more people probably have a better working knowledge of special relativity then they do of Newtonian mechanics.

[UnSub]

I can't wait for this discussion to repeat itself when the next Star Wars film comes out. 

[eldaec]

Don't be ridiculous, f13 simply doesn't like to talk about star wars.

[Montague]

I can't wait for this discussion to repeat itself when the next Star Wars film comes out.  

If Abrams' form holds, that film will be a deep philosophical morality play on the nature of the Force with a tightly plotted, character driven screenplay. Then I will tell the SW geeks to STFU, it's better than anything Lucas ever did, etc.  

[Tannhauser]

He's a better fit for SW than ST.  Fun, frenetic action that cheerily zooms past plot holes and internal logic to provide escapism.

[Abagadro]

Plinkett shows how it is even more derivative than you think (it's 7 min not one of his 90 minute takedowns):

Star Trek: Into References

[Ratman_tf]

Plinkett shows how it is even more derivative than you think (it's 7 min not one of his 90 minute takedowns):

Star Trek: Into References

RLM also did a more in-depth review.
http://blip.tv/redlettermedia/half-in-the-bag-episode-53-star-trek-into-darkness-6592545

[eldaec]

I thought their review, and espeicially the plot analysis and comments about Khan/tribble referencing, was pretty good.

Until they go nuts in the last 10 minutes trying to pretend that old star trek (TNG aside) was anything nobler.

[Ratman_tf]

I thought their review, and espeicially the plot analysis and comments about Khan/tribble referencing, was pretty good.

Until they go nuts in the last 10 minutes trying to pretend that old star trek (TNG aside) was anything nobler.

Did you watch TOS? Do you remember the episode where nobody punched anything, and they tried to communicate with and understand an alien being, and the resolution of the story involved the Metamorphosis of human and alien?
Or the episode that asked the question of whether it's better to live with an illusion or a harsh reality?
How about the episode that spent 90% of it's time in a courtroom?
Have you watched the episode that dealt with the death of a single person in order to restore the timeline?
There's an episode that explores racism and prejudice.

Jesus christ. TOS wasn't just Kirk fucking green women and punching the Gorn captain. It was sci-fi for the masses, but it was still sci-fi. I don't know about nobler, but at the very least they did stories with a little more thought than dropiing Trek references and blowing shit up.

[Samwise]

Jesus christ. TOS wasn't just Kirk fucking green women and punching the Gorn captain.

I actually just recently saw the episode where Kirk punches the Gorn, and what people don't seem to remember about that episode was that the entire point was that Kirk DIDN'T kill the Gorn at the end because he decided it was better to try to establish peaceful relations with this new species (even though their first contact consisted of the Gorn slaughtering an entire human colony for no apparent reason).

Point being that even the episodes that we remember as being the most cheeseball were more cerebral than the current generation of movies are.

[Ironwood]

Uh, I remember that.

Honest.  I remember all of that.

That's why I don't give much of a shit about this film.  I think I've already missed it on the big screen to be honest.

[Tannhauser]

Plinkett's always fun.  He does his homework.  As for the movie, to quote Donald Rumsfeld "We go to the movies with the writer we've got, not the writer we want."  I wouldn't let Lindelof write the new Denny's menu.

[Ratman_tf]

Plinkett's always fun.  He does his homework.  As for the movie, to quote Donald Rumsfeld "We go to the movies with the writer we've got, not the writer we want."  I wouldn't let Lindelof write the new Denny's menu.

Lindelof gets a lot of heat, but I put as much blame on Orci and Kurtzman, who were the geniuses behind the first Transformers movie.
I honestly have shed a lot of my nerdrage against Bay and think that these dipshits are part of the reason TF/ST have such terrible stories.

[Tannhauser]

Lindelof wrote Lost (sucked), Cowboys and Aliens (sucked), Promethus (sucked) and this Star Trek (sucked).  He is a parasitic vermin that has somehow attached itself to top Hollywood projects.

Those last three movies I've enjoyed the actors, the sets, the sfx, the direction but not the scripts.

He hit a cultural milestone with Lost (before everyone realized the emperor wasn't wearing any clothes) and has coasted ever since.

[Ratman_tf]

Lindelof wrote Lost (sucked), Cowboys and Aliens (sucked), Promethus (sucked) and this Star Trek (sucked).  He is a parasitic vermin that has somehow attached itself to top Hollywood projects.

Those last three movies I've enjoyed the actors, the sets, the sfx, the direction but not the scripts.

He hit a cultural milestone with Lost (before everyone realized the emperor wasn't wearing any clothes) and has coasted ever since.

No doubt. Read any interviews and he comes across as a shallow moron who is simply aping his favorite writing tropes, without a serious understanding of why they work.
It is a mystery is not a story.

[Ratman_tf]

BTW I had a hankering for some movie Trek, and rewatched STIII and WOK over the past couple of days.

Still good. I'd put them against most modern movies, and they blast past nuTrek at warp speed.

[Pennilenko]

Lindelof wrote Lost (sucked), Cowboys and Aliens (sucked), Promethus (sucked) and this Star Trek (sucked).  He is a parasitic vermin that has somehow attached itself to top Hollywood projects.

Those last three movies I've enjoyed the actors, the sets, the sfx, the direction but not the scripts.

He hit a cultural milestone with Lost (before everyone realized the emperor wasn't wearing any clothes) and has coasted ever since.

Oh god, I really don't want to be that guy, but I liked Cowboys and Aliens. I also enjoyed Prometheus. I didn't go into any of those movies with any type of emotional connections or attachment though.

[Tannhauser]

I re-watched Nemesis today.  I guess because I'm on a STO Romulan tear.  The Romulans, Remans and the ship battle were fun.  Everything else, yeah, still kinda blows.  They tried to give each major character at least something to do, but it was such a dumb film.  No need to go back into all that dross.

Maybe the third movie will go its own way.  It won't turn into a TV show, Quinto and Saldana are fairly big stars.  Chris Pine on the other hand...

Maybe the third movie can take up a serious sci-fi theme instead of phasOrz, like 1 and 5 did.  I mean, those movies are Trek favorites right?

[Ratman_tf]

I re-watched Nemesis today.  I guess because I'm on a STO Romulan tear.  The Romulans, Remans and the ship battle were fun.  Everything else, yeah, still kinda blows.  They tried to give each major character at least something to do, but it was such a dumb film.  No need to go back into all that dross.

Maybe the third movie will go its own way.

No chance in hell.

Maybe the third movie can take up a serious sci-fi theme instead of phasOrz, like 1 and 5 did.  I mean, those movies are Trek favorites right?

TMP is #2 on my list. And there's no chance of them doing something like that again either.

Maybe now that JJ Abrams is going to be busy shitting all over Star Wars we might get a Trek movie with a dash of sci-fi in it. Depends on who writes it.

My guess for the next Trek movie is Klingons, because everybody's heard of Klingons. I fancy they'll do something like rip off Undiscovered Country, except Chang will be named Worf, because more people have heard of Worf than Chang, and he'll want revenge against the Federation and have a really big evil starship.

[Lakov_Sanite]

My guess for the next Trek movie is Klingons, because everybody's heard of Klingons. I fancy they'll do something like rip off Undiscovered Country, except Chang will be named Worf, because more people have heard of Worf than Chang, and he'll want revenge against the Federation and have a really big evil starship.

Stop being an idiot.

[Ragnoros]

My guess for the next Trek movie is Klingons, because everybody's heard of Klingons. I fancy they'll do something like rip off Undiscovered Country, except Chang will be named Worf, because more people have heard of Worf than Chang, and he'll want revenge against the Federation and have a really big evil starship.

Stop being  accurate.

FIFY

[Samwise]

I forget if I've already given this theory here, but my money is on Dr. Marcus being killed by Klingons in the next one so that Kirk can get angry and punch a Klingon.

But I agree that the Klingons will need a giant evil ship, otherwise how will we know they're the bad guys?

[Ingmar]

BTW I had a hankering for some movie Trek, and rewatched STIII and WOK over the past couple of days.

Still good. I'd put them against most modern movies, and they blast past nuTrek at warp speed.

Wait - you liked three?

[Ironwood]

My guess for the next Trek movie is Klingons, because everybody's heard of Klingons. I fancy they'll do something like rip off Undiscovered Country, except Chang will be named Worf, because more people have heard of Worf than Chang, and he'll want revenge against the Federation and have a really big evil starship.

Stop being an idiot.

Your reaction is odd.  I'm finding the prediction compelling.