Star Trek: Into Darkness

[Special J]

In the scenes that Spock and Kirk share in the two films we have scenes like:

Star Trek:
 - Kirk hacking Spock's Kobayashi Maru scenario so that he wins and makes Spock look stupid

I know this is a months old post, but man while I liked the reboot overall, I HATED this scene.  All these years I was led to believe the Kirk had subtly altered this this test so he could give himself an out, allowing him to win.

Instead we got the first moment Abrams said "you're all retards and shit needs to be dumbed down" and gave us a ridiculous over the top scene of Kirk munching an apple while computers crashed around him.

So instead of Star Fleet going "WTF?!? How the fuck did he do that?!?!?!" we got: "Well duh, he cheated" So badly cheapened a big part of Kirk's backstory.

[UnSub]

I'm sure I've mentioned this before, but the official Star Trek game also has Kirk cheating Spock in 3D chess. New Kirk just can't help from being a douche to the closest thing he has to a friend.

Here's a video of it, from 2 minutes in (and before that, Spock and Kirk are fighting each other):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TT8FF2NhMQ

[Ironwood]

In the Kobayashi book, it's a lot easier to take, but everyone knows he was a douchebag and cheated.  The simulated Klingons gave up instantly when they heard it was The Famous Captain Kirk.  The other cadets in the scenario were pissing themselves and Kirk made no bones about 'I cheated because it's a stupid fucking test.'

So technically, the movie was exactly in that spirit.

[Merusk]

Instead we got the first moment Abrams said "you're all retards and shit needs to be dumbed down""fuck Star Trek, I've never watched this shit. It's all space opera like Star Wars" and gave us a ridiculous over the top scene of Kirk munching an apple while computers crashed around him.

More correct, though it's not Abrams who wrote it.  It's the team who brought us such greats as The Transformers, Mission Impossible III and Cowboys & Aliens.

Let's not forget how great they are about the fans, either.
http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplaylist/after-telling-fans-to-f-ck-off-star-trek-into-darkness-screenwriter-roberto-orci-deletes-twitter-account-20130911

[01101010]

Instead we got the first moment Abrams said "you're all retards and shit needs to be dumbed down""fuck Star Trek, I've never watched this shit. It's all space opera like Star Wars" and gave us a ridiculous over the top scene of Kirk munching an apple while computers crashed around him.

IIRC, the apple was tribute to Star Trek II.

[Ironwood]

Well, that's fucking obscure and stupid.

[Riggswolfe]

Instead we got the first moment Abrams said "you're all retards and shit needs to be dumbed down""fuck Star Trek, I've never watched this shit. It's all space opera like Star Wars" and gave us a ridiculous over the top scene of Kirk munching an apple while computers crashed around him.

IIRC, the apple was tribute to Star Trek II.

Makes sense. In that scene in the cave where McCoy, Kirk and Saavik talk about the Kobiyashi Maru Kirk is eating an apple and looks very, very smug while he tells her about how he beat the Kobiyashi Maru. That said, in the context of that movie it is intended to show how Kirk has always cheated his way out of bad situations which nicely sets up the ending of the movie.

I also didn't take that scene as Star Trek being dumbed down. They already showed that New Kirk is even more arrogant and impulsive than the Prime Kirk because he didn't have his dad around. One thing I have to give Into Darkness credit for is it was an attempt to deal with what happens when you put someone like him in charge of a starship. The best scene in that movie is where Pike bitches him out about not following the rules. Where I feel they screwed up is in switching Kirk and Spock's roles at the end. Kirk needed to learn that hard lesson that other people will pay for what he does.

[Special J]

Instead we got the first moment Abrams said "you're all retards and shit needs to be dumbed down""fuck Star Trek, I've never watched this shit. It's all space opera like Star Wars" and gave us a ridiculous over the top scene of Kirk munching an apple while computers crashed around him.

More correct, though it's not Abrams who wrote it.  It's the team who brought us such greats as The Transformers, Mission Impossible III and Cowboys & Aliens.

Let's not forget how great they are about the fans, either.
http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplaylist/after-telling-fans-to-f-ck-off-star-trek-into-darkness-screenwriter-roberto-orci-deletes-twitter-account-20130911

Yeah I'll buy that approach too. True, I'm guilty of lumping the writers together and just calling the whole gang 'Abrams'. But he is the ringleader.  And I'm sure some of the conversations went like this: "Holy fuck! Did you see the Helicarrier come out of the ocean?! I WANT THAT!"

EDIT: oh wow, the Orci flamewar is awesome.

[Riggswolfe]

So, following that Orsi flamewar article led me to an interview with Damon Lindledorf. I was surprised that he did not seem as arrogant as I'd always imagined and seemed to be a big nerd.

[UnSub]

For those who wish to relive this film in parody Tumblr form: http://thylaa.tumblr.com/post/69207958886/more

[HaemishM]

MY GOD IT'S THE HOLY PROPHET JESUS TRIBBLE!!!! 

[01101010]

MY GOD IT'S THE HOLY PROPHET JESUS TRIBBLE!!!! 

'Hello Darkness my old friend'
...got me.

[Samwise]

 

[Venkman]

My kids couldn't figure out why I was laughing so hard. And I don't even know why it was these two that set them off. I think it was just the accent in my head. Pegg's awesome, but I don't hear Scotty, I hear Nicholas Angel

[Rasix]

I finally watched this. This was terrible. I wish I had spent the time watching 3 episodes of Narcos instead.

I don't really care about Trek, but this some how made me care less. If these movies go anymore downhill from here, they'll be on the same level as a Michael Bay flick.

[Ironwood]

 

[Samwise]

I also approve this necropost.

[Ironwood]

I had to read the strip again. It's the only good that came from this POS film.

[HaemishM]

^ THIS. ^

I'm literally in tears from that strip again. Holy shit, what a turd of a movie.

[Khaldun]

I really hated this film so much. Over time my initial dismay has curdled into dark loathing.

[satael]

My greatest peeve with this movie were the MacGuffins (planet to planet teleportation and resurrection thru magic blood) which would have massive implications for Star Trek but which probably will be "forgotten" by whatever Trek comes out next. 

[jgsugden]

Star Trek 4 will likely end with another reset that reestablishes the original timeline... After all, it is well establish Star Trek fact that alterations to the timeline are to be restored.

[Sir T]

They will probably bring back Shatner to do it too.

[eldaec]

Thinking about how bad this film is made me realise that the problem isn't just the terrible things mentioned in this thread - also there is nothing good to ignore the bullshit in favour of.

Originally I thought this was terrible but no worse than most of the tOS films. After time has passed, I think it might be as bad as the TNG films.

[jgsugden]

I hope the next one is a flop so that we can get the property back on TV with a total reboot.

[Speedy Cerviche]

I read somebody suggesting that a True Detective  style anthology structure might be a good fit for Star Trek. You can have 5-15 episode long, tightly arced plotlines that aren't as rushed as films, but not so loose as the TV series' that are basically full of filler, and weak episodes. Basically novel length.

Then when the story is up you can move onto a new, fresh one, in a completely different setting, and characters while perhaps even advancing greater galaxy related story events through multiple seasons.

[Khaldun]

I could have mercy on anyone who walked out of the theater thinking, "Well, I guess that was dumb fun, there was explosions and Vulcan fist-fighting and a lady in underwear" because if nothing else the lens flares probably left them feeling dizzy and confused.

But I've noticed how at lots of sites the folks who first liked the film have been quietly downgrading it steadily since. Half the time expressing a liking for it was just trying to make clear that you didn't like Star Trek much anyway.

[Ironwood]

To be fair, the lady in the underwear was rather spectacular.

[Evildrider]

I hope the next one is a flop so that we can get the property back on TV with a total reboot.

With Justin Lin directing and most of the script by Simon Pegg, I have way more faith in the new movie than I did the others.

[Shannow]

I read somebody suggesting that a True Detective  style anthology structure might be a good fit for Star Trek. You can have 5-15 episode long, tightly arced plotlines that aren't as rushed as films, but not so loose as the TV series' that are basically full of filler, and weak episodes. Basically novel length.

Then when the story is up you can move onto a new, fresh one, in a completely different setting, and characters while perhaps even advancing greater galaxy related story events through multiple seasons.

That actually sounds pretty darn good.

[Khaldun]

Yeah, I agree, that sounds way better.

J. Michael Stracyznski of all people had a pretty good idea for what an episodic Trek could have been--I remember him writing up a pretty detailed "could have been series bible" for the Trek he wished they done. Basically, rather than a new planet or story every week, the Enterprise (or other Federation ship) is operating way far from any Starfleet base, out at the edges of known space. (A bit like what Voyager's premise could have led to.) And so in five or six-episode arcs, with significant gaps in between, the crew encounters one planet, one situation, that's full of interesting tensions and problems. You'd get a chance to develop each situation as precarious--no replicators, no magic tech. The Federation ship would have only so many supplies, would actually need to negotiate resupplies where possible. They would have practical limits on what they could do and they wouldn't be able to call home to get instructions from Admirals about every situation. Damage to the ship would have to be repaired with great difficulty, the authority of a Captain and the officers would always be a bit precarious, especially if they made bad mistakes. I think JMS argued also to take away the universal translator and too-easy-tricorders--make the Federation ship have to gather information about language and culture in more fallible and dangerous ways. Make stuff like the Prime Directive really hard-won and emotionally painful and maybe sometimes too much to expect anyone to uphold. Sort of more like The Prime Suggestion or One Good Guideline.

That would really fit the True Detective/HBO Series mold. Could switch up crews and situations--one 'season' could be a science survey vessel dealing with a truly mysterious anomaly; another 'season' could be a small military ship cruising a dangerous frontier area; another 'season' could be a first-contact vessel dealing with a morally ambiguous new alien culture whose planet is strategically vital. 18 or 22-episode orders are just going to lead to filler.

[Ruvaldt]

CBS owns the TV rights so I wouldn't expect anything revolutionary from a TV reboot.  NCIS: Final Frontier or a Big Bang Theory crossover could be possible though.  Soft tribble, warm tribble, little ball of fur...

[Tannhauser]

CBS owns the TV rights so I wouldn't expect anything revolutionary from a TV reboot.  NCIS: Final Frontier or a Big Bang Theory crossover could be possible though.  Soft tribble, warm tribble, little ball of fur...

Thanks for bringing a little fun into this angtsy thread.  Seriously.

[Samwise]

J. Michael Stracyznski of all people had a pretty good idea for what an episodic Trek could have been--I remember him writing up a pretty detailed "could have been series bible" for the Trek he wished they done. Basically, rather than a new planet or story every week, the Enterprise (or other Federation ship) is operating way far from any Starfleet base, out at the edges of known space. (A bit like what Voyager's premise could have led to.) And so in five or six-episode arcs, with significant gaps in between, the crew encounters one planet, one situation, that's full of interesting tensions and problems. You'd get a chance to develop each situation as precarious--no replicators, no magic tech. The Federation ship would have only so many supplies, would actually need to negotiate resupplies where possible. They would have practical limits on what they could do and they wouldn't be able to call home to get instructions from Admirals about every situation. Damage to the ship would have to be repaired with great difficulty, the authority of a Captain and the officers would always be a bit precarious, especially if they made bad mistakes. I think JMS argued also to take away the universal translator and too-easy-tricorders--make the Federation ship have to gather information about language and culture in more fallible and dangerous ways. Make stuff like the Prime Directive really hard-won and emotionally painful and maybe sometimes too much to expect anyone to uphold. Sort of more like The Prime Suggestion or One Good Guideline.

That's exactly what Voyager was set up as, and what it was presumably supposed to be.  Then it turned out that writing that high concept sci-fi stuff was hard, or something, and it quickly turned into dreck.  

[HaemishM]

Yeah, it turned to dreck about 5 minutes after the pilot started and only got worse from there.