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Author Topic: Not so good news about F2P  (Read 151814 times)
Amaron
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Reply #315 on: November 23, 2012, 04:39:07 PM

You can page to the second bar if you don't have it activated, but that's it.

Yea I can't see that as enough past 25 then.  You need buttons for mount/rest/buffs/etc.  At the same time that's a good time for new players to stop being leeches.  The people getting shafted here are the ones who actually bought the game box.
Tannhauser
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Reply #316 on: November 23, 2012, 04:43:53 PM

I bought the CE on pre-order.  Went back in the other day and I have lots of hotbars.  My cartel coin count was zero.  Are we sure box buyers are getting that shaft? 

Amaron, you're right, at level 22 (Sith Inq/Ass) I'm needing my third hot bar. 
Zetor
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Reply #317 on: November 23, 2012, 10:10:20 PM

Yes, box buyers are getting the shaft. I pre-ordered the game (normal, not CE), played for two months (free month + 1 month of sub), and I'm limited to two hotbars. As I said before, 2 bars would already be insufficient at level 20 for an agent if it wasn't possible to 'cheat' with the cover bar (not that it's a universal remedy, since it's clunky to switch to cover every time I want to use ability x - I guess it works for rarely-used abilities). I have 0 cartel coins, but if I subscribed before december X, I'd get a whopping 150 cartel coins (~$1.50). Not a huge motivator...

In fact, the only 'veteran advantages' are the inventory/bank slots I unlocked for credits (but I'm pretty sure anyone could sub for a month and do the same), and being able to access all 4 of my characters instead of the 2 that would be allowed for f2p'ers (but this is "temporary", and I'll be locked down to 2 characters soon enough)

Ingmar
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Reply #318 on: November 23, 2012, 10:22:03 PM

Well, the cover bar isn't really cheating for half of agents.  tongue

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Amaron
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Reply #319 on: November 23, 2012, 11:43:59 PM

I'm guessing some sort of changes will be announced in a few weeks.  The system really needs to hook former subs back in better.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2012, 11:48:30 PM by Amaron »
Rokal
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Reply #320 on: November 26, 2012, 04:08:28 PM

After two weeks, they have decided to give preferred status players the 4 quickbars they were accustomed to (and that you realistically need to play the game).

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=562422

If you already bought quickbars, they are going to do something to make it up to you. Why they decided to launch with such a terrible limitation in the game, only to reverse it a few weeks after it had already pissed everyone off, is a mystery. Now they also get to deal with the head-ache of refunding players that did buy it, if they even are willing to refund it. Bravo.

This was really the last change I needed them to make before I was willing to play the game again. Selling features that were required (imo) to play the game normally was insanity and didn't make me comfortable about the future of their F2P model. Looking forward to picking up the story on my BH and Smuggler.
eldaec
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Reply #321 on: November 26, 2012, 04:47:44 PM

I struggle with how anyone is 'getting the shaft' given you can always not play and be in the same situation you were before the micro trans thing.

But I agree its a bad scheme for bringing in subs.

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
Amaron
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Reply #322 on: November 26, 2012, 09:57:31 PM

If you already bought quickbars, they are going to do something to make it up to you. Why they decided to launch with such a terrible limitation in the game, only to reverse it a few weeks after it had already pissed everyone off, is a mystery. Now they also get to deal with the head-ache of refunding players that did buy it, if they even are willing to refund it. Bravo.

I expect their line of thinking was that only new players would have to buy hotbars.  They didn't really WANT to think about former subs coming back and playing for free.
Ingmar
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Reply #323 on: November 26, 2012, 10:10:09 PM

So, in 1.6 they're adding a quest at level 50 that basically gives you a free set of Tionese gear. In addition to the one that gives you the recruit PVP gear. Ugly suits all around!

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Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Zetor
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Reply #324 on: November 26, 2012, 11:54:07 PM

I struggle with how anyone is 'getting the shaft' given you can always not play and be in the same situation you were before the micro trans thing.

But I agree its a bad scheme for bringing in subs.
It's relative. Other f2p transitions (lotro, coh) gave me a ton of rewards for having bought the box and past subscription months (also multiple past expansions, but that doesn't apply here); SWTOR gives me $1.50 worth of coins (I'd get $0 if I bought the box but only played for the free month, fwiw) for my preorder + box purchase + 1mo of past sub, and only if I choose to resub before december - otherwise I get put in the same category as anyone who spends $1 at the cash shop or whatever. Grandfathered inventory is nice, but anyone can sub for a month and get it too; being able to access all my characters instead of 2 is just temporary until they get the code working. You can call it entitlement, but vet rewards are absolutely huge for getting "stickiness" and bringing past subbers back (and honestly in SWTOR's case, how many SW / Bioware / MMO fans who may be tangentially interested in the game did not buy the box to begin with?).

Ontopic, I think the hotbar change is great - to reiterate, client-side functionality restrictions are fuckstupid - and will probably get me playing again at one point (maybe even splurge for the artifact cert). Re 1.6: when is the ETA, and are they giving out a new pvp recruit set too? I know that the blue set I got a long time ago was basically fodder status, but seem to have read somewhere that there was a "recruit gear mk2"
« Last Edit: November 26, 2012, 11:55:40 PM by Zetor »

Amaron
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Reply #325 on: November 27, 2012, 12:02:00 AM

Re 1.6: when is the ETA, and are they giving out a new pvp recruit set too? I know that the blue set I got a long time ago was basically fodder status, but seem to have read somewhere that there was a "recruit gear mk2"

Recruit Mk-1 gear is not that bad.  What makes it bad is that you aren't going to augment it.  When 1.6 hits you can get War Hero for practically no time spent.   Buy the cheapest pieces first and augment them immediately.   You'll be fighting at par very quickly.
Raguel
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Reply #326 on: November 27, 2012, 12:20:51 AM

So, in 1.6 they're adding a quest at level 50 that basically gives you a free set of Tionese gear. In addition to the one that gives you the recruit PVP gear. Ugly suits all around!

I haven't really cared much about the endgame until I saw how horrible my sniper was at soloing. I had to switch to my jug in order to get HK-1. I'd love to get better gear fast and cheap, especially if that allows me to farm a bit to help out the other chars.
Fabricated
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Reply #327 on: November 27, 2012, 03:49:36 AM

After two weeks, they have decided to give preferred status players the 4 quickbars they were accustomed to (and that you realistically need to play the game).

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=562422

If you already bought quickbars, they are going to do something to make it up to you. Why they decided to launch with such a terrible limitation in the game, only to reverse it a few weeks after it had already pissed everyone off, is a mystery. Now they also get to deal with the head-ache of refunding players that did buy it, if they even are willing to refund it. Bravo.

This was really the last change I needed them to make before I was willing to play the game again. Selling features that were required (imo) to play the game normally was insanity and didn't make me comfortable about the future of their F2P model. Looking forward to picking up the story on my BH and Smuggler.
Hey wow, I might actually play now. Might even sub for a month to get my funny money!

I can't recall the overall cost; but just hand out some incidental thing that fits in the UI- like free color matching on their account or something.

"The world is populated in the main by people who should not exist." - George Bernard Shaw
Amaron
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Reply #328 on: November 27, 2012, 07:04:51 AM

They really screwed the pooch this morning.  Gear on companions isn't giving them stats.  You can re-equip them but dismissing them breaks it again.  Thus any time you mount a speeder your companion becomes naked.  The game is basically unplayable solo right now.
koro
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Reply #329 on: November 27, 2012, 07:12:36 AM

Yeah, and the last time this happened it took Bioware over a month to fix, and that was before  their big rounds of layoffs.
Nebu
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Reply #330 on: November 27, 2012, 07:17:08 AM

Yeah, and the last time this happened it took Bioware over a month to fix, and that was before  their big rounds of layoffs.

The skeleton crew working on SWTOR will be the demise of the game.  The game is still plagued with many of the issues from beta and the community is restless about it.  EA is really trying to squeeze revenue from this title with as little input as possible. 

I'm having fun playing the level 1-49 pvp bracket and running the story quests, but am quickly reminded of the reasons that I left the game to begin with.  Shame really... so much lost potential here.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Tannhauser
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Reply #331 on: November 27, 2012, 07:20:40 AM

Wow, that sucks.  I'm really back into it.  Hop I can play tonite.
Amaron
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Reply #332 on: November 27, 2012, 07:33:07 AM

I was hoping to hit 50 today.  Trying to find a group at this level is just too annoying though.
eldaec
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Reply #333 on: November 27, 2012, 07:41:26 AM

The flip over to 50 and the suddenly effective group finder makes an enormous difference. From 30-49 its guild mate or gtfo.

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
Raguel
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Reply #334 on: November 27, 2012, 08:00:26 AM


I'm having difficulty responding to this bug w/o NERDRAGE so I'll talk about something else. I didn't know characters can speak with some emotes ("no", "yes"). I'd like to use my sorcs fave sayings ("obey me or perish") to greet people I group with.  That'd be something I'd love to see in the cartel or whatever.

Tannhauser
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Reply #335 on: November 27, 2012, 08:34:39 AM

I was hoping to hit 50 today.  Trying to find a group at this level is just too annoying though.

Hoping to hit 50 tonite too on my BH.  First 50 for me.  I enjoy soloing even though I have some downtime. 
Paelos
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Reply #336 on: November 27, 2012, 10:57:55 AM

I tried last weekend to get into this. Got to lvl 10 on my agent, and promptly got so frustrated with the restrictions I just gave up.

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Ingmar
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Reply #337 on: November 27, 2012, 11:02:33 AM

Which of the restrictions are even meaningful at level 10?

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Nebu
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Reply #338 on: November 27, 2012, 11:14:12 AM

I tried last weekend to get into this. Got to lvl 10 on my agent, and promptly got so frustrated with the restrictions I just gave up.

Level 10 is where you get your sub class.  To be fair, the game doesn't really get fun until about level 20 or so with an agent.  Level 35-50 is where I enjoyed it most.  I have a level 50 sniper, level 50 Op, level 45 smuggler and enjoy them all.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Amaron
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Reply #339 on: November 27, 2012, 11:28:44 AM

I was hoping to hit 50 today.  Trying to find a group at this level is just too annoying though.

Hoping to hit 50 tonite too on my BH.  First 50 for me.  I enjoy soloing even though I have some downtime. 

Looks like we're not going to get our wish.  Doesn't sound like they'll be fixing the bug today.
Paelos
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Reply #340 on: November 27, 2012, 01:35:51 PM

Which of the restrictions are even meaningful at level 10?

That's when I got the message. CONGRATS NOW YOU GET REDUCED XP ON TOP OF ALL THE STUFF!

It was just one of those  ACK! Mob moments.

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Zetor
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Reply #341 on: November 27, 2012, 01:38:50 PM

The "YOU WOULD BE GETTING REST XP IF YOU WERE A SUBSCRIBER, BUT YOU DO NOT BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT. LOLOL NOOB" messages whenever you enter a cantina are pretty amusing too, but I don't mind them. Really, with the hotbar limit gone, the game should be fine as long as you have preferred status (to get sprint, remove chat restrictions, etc) which is really really cheap to get. How big is the xp reduction anyway?
« Last Edit: November 27, 2012, 01:40:31 PM by Zetor »

koro
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Reply #342 on: November 27, 2012, 01:45:43 PM

20%.

Honestly, the 25% extra added to all vendor costs would drive me absolutely bugshit crazy after a while, and you cannot ever remove that unless you sub.
Raguel
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Reply #343 on: November 27, 2012, 02:02:50 PM

Speaking of which, is anyone else getting random bugs related to f2p? For example I had one character that was bugged as f2p the other day: she had no sprint and only 1 bar. I logged onto 2 different chars and they were fine. I had to quit and start again for everything to be fine.
koro
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Reply #344 on: November 27, 2012, 02:04:56 PM

I have a couple guildmates who see that bug happen on at least one character every day.
Rokal
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Reply #345 on: November 27, 2012, 02:05:29 PM

20%.

Honestly, the 25% extra added to all vendor costs would drive me absolutely bugshit crazy after a while, and you cannot ever remove that unless you sub.

I heard it was 25% less XP, and no rested XP. Honestly, I am okay with both of those restrictions because the leveling curve already seemed too fast. This just means that free players will be doing the extra quest series on each planet and running more FPs.

I have a bigger problem with the 25% increased currency costs which I didn't learn about until yesterday. That appears to cover all currency, so you'll even have a harder time spending commendations from specific planets  Heartbreak

Eurogamer posted a brutal re-review of SWTOR after the F2P patch, which feels increasingly accurate as I continue to find out about new restrictions on premium players.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-11-26-star-wars-the-old-republic-re-review

Quote
The Old Republic's biggest failing as a free-to-play game, though, is its attitude. It doesn't simply push you to subscribe. It levies so many petty restrictions that it ends up feeling like the goal wasn't to attract newcomers so much as spite any who dared show up. One of many examples: if you don't at least unlock Preferred status by spending a few quid (or returning to an old account), you're not allowed to Sprint until Level 15. Yes, that was the case at launch. It was changed shortly afterwards because the maps are huge, and getting around them at walking pace was and remains a deeply miserable experience.

Of course, BioWare needs to sell things to make this model work. That's not the problem, and most of what subscribers get is fine - early access to mounts, all-access passes to content and so on. The catch, as any game with the sweeties budget to enlist a six-year-old child could tell you, is that the free side of the game is just as important. The more people stick around, the more they're likely to buy - if not quick cosmetic stuff, then maybe extra maps or lockboxes or similar. All players matter, if not as VIPs to spoil right now, then as potential customers next month, or in three months, or next year.

The Old Republic has no time for this, preferring to treat non-subscribers as third-class citizens - even the ones willing to spend money on individual purchases. These unworthies earn no rested XP, with even regular XP being acquired at a lower rate. Quick Travel is now on a two-hour cooldown instead of half an hour. Even opening a shop window (not including the real money one) means getting a snippy "Vendor prices are increased for Free-to-Play Players".

This is not how subscribers are won. This is how 20GB of disk space is recovered.
koro
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Reply #346 on: November 27, 2012, 02:10:39 PM

The part about F2P I agree with fully, though the stuff before it grousing about the story (which suddenly sucks now that bashing on TOR's the thing to do) and comparisons to other recent MMOs' story offerings kind of had me rolling my eyes a bit.
ajax34i
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Reply #347 on: November 27, 2012, 02:56:34 PM

Don't jump in just yet.  There are still a few random bugs, and they're just getting back from their week-long Thanksgiving break when even their customer support went silent / got disconnected.

Current major bugs seem to be:  companion armor bugging out at every cinematic, when you use your vehicle, etc., and if you get logged out from the server due to being idle, the game thinks you've gone F2P and takes your bars and stuff away (full restart of the game fixes it, but you still have to repopulate your bars I think).

Ingmar
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Reply #348 on: November 27, 2012, 03:10:27 PM

I have been kicked out due to being idle and not turned F2P - does it only happen to 'premium' people maybe?

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Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Sjofn
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Reply #349 on: November 27, 2012, 03:11:38 PM

The flip over to 50 and the suddenly effective group finder makes an enormous difference. From 30-49 its guild mate or gtfo.

Huh, I haven't had trouble getting dungeons to pop on my 35-ish marauder. It's not instant pop, but it's not a long wait either. And he's just a derp DPS!

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