f13.net

f13.net General Forums => Star Wars: The Old Republic => Topic started by: Amaron on September 22, 2012, 02:41:47 PM



Title: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Amaron on September 22, 2012, 02:41:47 PM
They had a live stream today and actually briefly talked about some things in the new cash shop.

Quote
Really cool mounts, cool pets, some gearsets (not impactful to endgame) that help players as they level up. The gear you will find will be interesting to everyone because it is not going to be restricted by class or by faction and all moddable. The gear you purchase in the CC shop is hopefully something you will be able to use for a class you got.

We also have a really cool thing called Cartel packs. Cartel packs you buy give you a random assortment of really cool items and a chance to get some of the cooler items that maybe in the game (not powerful, but very cool Ė they going to make you look AMAZING!)

So basically annoying gambling boxes for the cooler looking gear/mounts.  The new raid tier coming out doesn't have a new art set.  Most likely the art that should of gone to the new raid got shunted to these gambling boxes.

Dulfy has a transcript for the whole thing here:  http://dulfy.net/2012/09/21/swtor-livestream-qa-transcript/


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: koro on September 22, 2012, 05:27:16 PM
I hate those gambling boxes. They're annoying in TF2, drove me to quit STO, and I imagine they'll be just as annoying here.

The new raid tier set, however, has been in the game files since April, art and all. It just continues the theme they have of each "tier" of gear sharing the same looks.

Tionese/Columi/Rakata look the same, so Black Hole/Campaign/Dread Guard will as well.

I mean it's still lazy design (and nearly all the class sets are ugly as sin), but it's not, overall, that big a deal.

My concern, though, is about "...some gearsets (not impactful to endgame) that help players as they level up." I imagine this will end up with full sets of orange gear filled with mods of the quality of the Inheritance Legacy items you can buy with the vanishingly rare token drops you can get. It renders crafting at all but the max skill rank all but moot for several crafting skills and will be a nightmare in PvP.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ingmar on September 22, 2012, 05:40:50 PM
I don't really see anything here that bothers (or excites) me.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Amaron on September 22, 2012, 07:30:32 PM
I hate those gambling boxes. They're annoying in TF2, drove me to quit STO, and I imagine they'll be just as annoying here.

The new raid tier set, however, has been in the game files since April, art and all. It just continues the theme they have of each "tier" of gear sharing the same looks.

Tionese/Columi/Rakata look the same, so Black Hole/Campaign/Dread Guard will as well.

Why is it the same tier?  They don't have any real rule regarding that.  Statistically Tionese->Columi is a bigger difference than Rakata->Black Hole.  Basing tiers on time between updates is more logical.  It's been long enough that my subscription should of paid for new armor sets by now.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Evildrider on September 23, 2012, 04:20:38 PM
With the way armor is setup barely anyone uses the base looks anymore.  Why would you when you have so many choices to choose from.  Hell all I wear is the two Tuskan Raider outfits now.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Fordel on September 23, 2012, 06:59:40 PM
Is the game actually F2P already?


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: ajax34i on September 23, 2012, 07:43:56 PM
No, not yet.

Patch 1.4 is probably going live within 2 weeks.

F2P is scheduled for 1-2 months from now.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Nevermore on September 23, 2012, 09:50:55 PM
The server merges happened though, complete with round 2 of the terribly inconsistent naming conflict policy.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: koro on September 23, 2012, 11:17:20 PM
Yeah, my girlfriend lost her favorite name that she had since launch on her 50 to someone's much lower-leveled alt. I can't say I blame her for immediately canceling her sub.

On the plus side, I got my Legacy name back, only to find out that the person who had it on Shadowlands when I transferred was none other than one of my guildmates.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ingmar on September 23, 2012, 11:44:34 PM
The server merges happened though, complete with round 2 of the terribly inconsistent naming conflict policy.

We didn't get moved again did we?


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Nevermore on September 24, 2012, 12:14:38 AM
Yeah, my girlfriend lost her favorite name that she had since launch on her 50 to someone's much lower-leveled alt. I can't say I blame her for immediately canceling her sub.

On the plus side, I got my Legacy name back, only to find out that the person who had it on Shadowlands when I transferred was none other than one of my guildmates.

Legacy names are non-unique now, so maybe that person still has it!

We didn't get moved again did we?

No, Ebon Hawk was the destination.  Kath Hound, Rubat Crystal, Lord Adraas, Sanctum of the Exalted, and Shien all got merged into that server.  They upped the number of character slots to 12 (why not 16?  :oh_i_see: ) but it looks like anyone who would end up with more than 12 characters because of the merge still gets to keep all of them even if it means they have more than 12.  However, if someone with more than 12 characters ever wants to make a new one on that server (say for Cathar), they have to delete down below 12 to free up an empty slot.

Also, apparently 'Bat Country' is now 'Bat Country @ Ebon Hawk', I assume because there was another 'Bat Country' that got merged onto the server.  'Human-Cyborg Relations' doesn't have that @ nonsense.  I think the guild master will have the option to rename the guild?

The consolidation brings the number of North American servers down to I think 8.  Down from what, over 100?


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ingmar on September 24, 2012, 12:16:42 AM
Probably the old Bat Country from Shien that Sky never disbanded because he is smooth.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: koro on September 24, 2012, 01:00:22 AM
Yeah, my girlfriend lost her favorite name that she had since launch on her 50 to someone's much lower-leveled alt. I can't say I blame her for immediately canceling her sub.

On the plus side, I got my Legacy name back, only to find out that the person who had it on Shadowlands when I transferred was none other than one of my guildmates.

Legacy names are non-unique now, so maybe that person still has it!

Oh he does, which is how we found out about it. He kept his old legacy name, and I switched to my old legacy name, only to find out that we had the exact same one; he was the reason I had to change mine on initial server transfer back in... July?


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Azazel on September 24, 2012, 02:47:23 AM
The server merges happened though, complete with round 2 of the terribly inconsistent naming conflict policy.

Yeah, my girlfriend lost her favorite name that she had since launch on her 50 to someone's much lower-leveled alt. I can't say I blame her for immediately canceling her sub.

On the plus side, I got my Legacy name back, only to find out that the person who had it on Shadowlands when I transferred was none other than one of my guildmates.

So how does that manage to work?  :uhrr:


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: koro on September 24, 2012, 04:09:14 AM
Legacy names are no longer unique, but character names still are. Plus, the new merges are a bit different from the voluntary moves done a few months back. All the servers are essentially brand new servers that just happen to have the same names as the Destinations from the previous rounds of transfers. So the people who were lucky enough to be on a Destination server already now had to have their character names possibly lost as well.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Sjofn on September 24, 2012, 03:01:48 PM
Christ, the name thing is a mess.

EDIT: It's a mess, BUT I got a couple of names that I know were previously taken? My operative got moved over (I had been putting it off because I couldn't think of a good replacement name for him) and he's still Joshua now.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Fordel on September 24, 2012, 08:42:36 PM
Maybe I'll get Fordel back if I'm lucky.





Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Sjofn on September 24, 2012, 09:48:38 PM
Only if you log in before Other Fordel does, I suspect.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Fordel on September 24, 2012, 10:23:30 PM
I'm hoping the other Fordel is as apathetic as me atm.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Amaron on September 25, 2012, 10:09:24 AM
Christ, the name thing is a mess.

It's going to be a nightmare when F2P hits too.  The max server sizes are huge now.  They'll be literally forced to change the naming system. 


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: ajax34i on September 25, 2012, 06:59:34 PM
Shrug, there's still decent 5-letter names available. 

You think F2P will bring that many players in?  To me it looks more like a way for them to fleece whatever playerbase they still have (they're expecting subscribers to pay for the stuff on sale in addition to the subscription).  And, let's see, the F2P will probably be released at Christmas, and by then most pandas will be just about levelled up enough for raiding, no?


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Kail on September 25, 2012, 10:19:53 PM
You think F2P will bring that many players in? 

I'd be surprised it if didn't.  Trying to get a decent name in something like DC Universe Online is a nightmare unless you want a lot of -=XxXSup3rm4nXxX=- type stuff floating over your head.  And SWtOR is going to pull in WAY more than DCUO.  I've never seen an F2P game with a naming scheme like this where names weren't a problem, and SWtOR is probably going to be the biggest one yet due to it's newness and the sheer amount of marketing inertia from the original launch.

If you're talking about PAYING players, I'd agree, I wouldn't be looking for a miracle, but when every kid who downloads the client can roll a new character for free, the namespace gets crowded fast.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: ajax34i on September 26, 2012, 07:36:36 AM
Oh did they say free client?


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ingmar on September 26, 2012, 01:16:21 PM
Yeah it isn't a box sale, it is true F2P.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Amaron on September 26, 2012, 04:42:57 PM
You think F2P will bring that many players in?  To me it looks more like a way for them to fleece whatever playerbase they still have (they're expecting subscribers to pay for the stuff on sale in addition to the subscription).  And, let's see, the F2P will probably be released at Christmas, and by then most pandas will be just about levelled up enough for raiding, no?

F2P players are a different ball game when it comes to competing against WoW.  Most of the people they'll draw in don't even play subscription MMO's.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: tazelbain on September 26, 2012, 04:44:33 PM
Yeah it isn't a box sale, it is true F2P.
Lol, then I get a refund on my box?


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ingmar on September 26, 2012, 04:49:46 PM
Sure, just like you get a refund on the difference between every game you buy at full price and the price at a Steam sale a year later.  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Zetor on September 26, 2012, 11:47:55 PM
Ideally people who bought the box (and/or past subscriptions) would have at least SOME privileges over completely new f2p people beyond putting them into the "you have spent at least 1$/5$ in our cash shop" user group.

A good example for this is COH (minus some silly f2p-transition issues like inventions and bases) and a bad example is LOTRO (yo dawg, if you want to play through the zones in the base game that you THOUGHT were included in the box price, you better pay up!)


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ingmar on September 27, 2012, 01:47:04 AM
I believe they've said we're getting some free store points or whatever, much like LOTRO did.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Amaron on September 27, 2012, 07:44:24 PM
I believe they've said we're getting some free store points or whatever, much like LOTRO did.

I'd also be really surprised if they give F2P people 8 character slots right off the bat.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Mattemeo on September 28, 2012, 05:23:38 PM
I cancelled a few days back before knowing about Naming Fiasco #2. Sadly I just chose a few rote 'I want to spend less time playing games' answers in the dreadful whiny OH GOD YOU'RE LEAVING ME WHHHYYYY boxes; in hindsite I'd have liked to write a nice little rant about their total mismanagement of just about every after-the-fact system they foist on the community. I came a cropper on both sides of the nonsensical naming rules, which lends their assertion that 'whether the character had to be renamed before' was a facter was an air of total fabrication.

I still like the game. It's just run so badly and their only consistency is inconsistency. I'll be back when Cathar go live.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Sky on October 12, 2012, 10:03:01 PM
I cancelled a few days back before knowing about Naming Fiasco #2.
Wait, what? There was another?

I cancelled just before the naming fiasco to stop automatic billing, so I didn't even leave any negative feedback at all, just that I was doing it to get off auto-billing.

Still looking forward to f2p for the most part, but ye gods.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: koro on October 13, 2012, 01:12:29 AM
The servers got merged again into new Super Serversô that are technically new servers (new hardware) but with the names of what were the Destination servers beforehand; a few Destinations even got merged into other Destinations to boot. Because it's technically a new server, everyone had to roll the dice on their names being available. Some people (like me) got lucky and lost no names. Some (like my girlfriend who even had a relatively uncommon name) lost their names for the first time, some who've had them since pre-launch. There are even others who, after losing names during the initial voluntary transfers, lost them again in the new merges.

The methodology of determining who had to rename their characters was pretty much random as far as anyone knows, despite Bioware's assertions to the contrary. I know of more than a few people who lost their names to people who were half their level, hadn't been playing as long, or were inactive, period.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ingmar on October 13, 2012, 01:37:49 AM
Eh, most of the people who lost their names were never-transferred-in-the-first-place people. Now, guild names, that's another matter. We lost Bat Country to Sky being retarded and not disbanding the old one like he should have, so when it got force merged in it won.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Sky on October 13, 2012, 10:06:04 AM
Everyone should bathe in my angst. (I didn't realize it would be an issue)

Too bad they didn't honor order of creation for naming. That whole situation was a pretty big 'fuck you' when you're pushing personal story as the primary motivation. To do it twice (I wonder if I lost the one name I kept the first time, almost assuredly by now), that's insane.

Good to get a reminder of why this game utterly turned me off in one swell foop. Move to the back of the queue, f2p TOR.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Reg on October 13, 2012, 12:55:56 PM
I can't believe that in this day and age first names have to be unique anyway.  They should have let us pick a family name at character creation and insisted that IT be unique.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Sky on October 13, 2012, 04:03:11 PM
Except they also screwed people on family names already.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Nevermore on October 13, 2012, 04:19:03 PM
Actually, the unscrewed people on family names.  They're no longer unique.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Reg on October 13, 2012, 04:48:55 PM
Heh so they got it exactly backwards. Nice work!


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Amaron on October 14, 2012, 02:56:33 PM
They should have let us pick a family name at character creation and insisted that IT be unique.

I still prefer some sort of unique id.  Let character names be anything.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Reg on October 14, 2012, 04:08:41 PM
That would be fine too. I feel a little silly for being so pissed off over the loss of all my names but it's seriously put me off the game.  I probably won't play even for free until they either fix the problem or at least fire all the blockheads that made the original stupid decisions that led to it.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ingmar on October 14, 2012, 05:26:06 PM
That would be fine too. I feel a little silly for being so pissed off over the loss of all my names but it's seriously put me off the game.  I probably won't play even for free until they either fix the problem or at least fire all the blockheads that made the original stupid decisions that led to it.

The decision to launch with too many servers? Those people all *have* been fired.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: koro on October 17, 2012, 06:23:28 PM
F2P restrictions list is out:

http://www.swtor.com/free/features

Highlights:

  • Can only do the "revive in place" thing 5 times - it doesn't specify weekly or ever, I suspect weekly - before having to buy a thing to enable it for good
  • Can't equip purples without a license (so any 50s coming back in their raid gear are... uh... kinda hosed)
  • No bank whatsoever, and can't expand the miniscule default inventory. This is even stricter than EQ2
  • You can only have a single crew skill, which is kind of baffling since I imagine there will also be auction house limits for freebies, and a single crew skill is... well... worthless


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Rokal on October 17, 2012, 08:06:45 PM
Can't equip purples without a license (so any 50s coming back in their raid gear are... uh... kinda hosed)

I suspect raid gear that is already equipped will be grandfathered in. Still a really unappealing restriction, especially considering how much purple gear exists pre-endgame. We still need to hear exact pricing details but this is one of those F2P limitations that is a big turn off for me.

Having to pay for content feels worthwhile. Having to pay to equip gear I already earned feels like getting ripped off.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Sjofn on October 17, 2012, 08:09:42 PM
  • Can't equip purples without a license (so any 50s coming back in their raid gear are... uh... kinda hosed)

That one made me laugh for some reason. Probably because it seems petty somehow.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Lantyssa on October 18, 2012, 07:46:30 AM
Meh.  If I don't have bank access after purchasing and subbing for six months, they can stuff a lightsaber where the sun don't shine.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Mattemeo on October 18, 2012, 08:21:28 AM
I highly doubt I'd find F2P SWtOR feasible. The restrictions seem even more draconian than those set up for CoH, which left that game all but unusable. I'm fine with coming back when they introduce some of the features I'm looking forward to but I think I'll be subbing to do so.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: tazelbain on October 18, 2012, 08:25:52 AM
Definitely what I consider fake F2P.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Amaron on October 18, 2012, 08:32:28 AM
The draconian shit is all gateway drug.  You pay a dollar and it all turns on permanently.  They just want to force you to put your info on file.

EDIT:

Previous subscriber reward info here:  http://www.swtor.com/free

Basically cartel coins per month you subscribed.  A bonus for CE and digital delux.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: koro on October 18, 2012, 02:37:23 PM
More like you pay a dollar and it turns on for a week.  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: HaemishM on October 18, 2012, 03:22:25 PM
Meh.  If I don't have bank access after purchasing and subbing for six months, they can stuff a lightsaber where the sun don't shine.

I didn't even like SWTOR and think not having a bank of any kind is FUCKING CRAZY. Just call it a free trial.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Zetor on October 18, 2012, 03:57:19 PM
More like you pay a dollar and it turns on for a week.  :oh_i_see:
Yep.

I wasn't sure it was possible to make me less excited about an f2p conversion than eq2 and lotro, but they did it! I still can't get my head around the advantages of restricting WZs and flashpoints to 3/week unless you pay $$$ every week. Why restrict people from re-running repeatable group content to keep them in the game longer (and improve queues / pvp population / etc for the subscribers as well)? The ONLY place where this almost makes sense is restricting raids (COH did this too with incarnates being sub-only)


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Amaron on October 18, 2012, 07:25:13 PM
More like you pay a dollar and it turns on for a week.  :oh_i_see:

It says it right at the top of the link you posted:

Quote
Preferred Status - Making a purchase will unlock access to the following features:

Most F2P do this now.  They come up with a bunch of draconian restrictions to force a single purchase.  It's a good way to get rid of people who won't actually pay anything.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ingmar on October 18, 2012, 07:27:59 PM
Yeah the hand-wringing is a bit much, its the same deal as LOTRO: buy one thing there and you become "premium" and get access to a whole bunch more shit.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Zetor on October 19, 2012, 12:18:27 AM
The subject of my handwringing is stuff that doesn't work that way, ie. WZs/FPs/purpz requiring a weekly payment to use/equip. I wouldn't have a problem if these were features permanently unlocked via a vet reward (like COH) or even a one-time payment.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ingmar on October 19, 2012, 12:43:24 AM
The gear-equipping does not mention a weekly pass like the other things, it is almost certainly pay-once.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Zetor on October 19, 2012, 12:51:16 AM
Hm yeah missed that... doesn't address the WZ/FP thing, though.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: apocrypha on October 19, 2012, 02:20:17 AM
Plus the details of this aren't being posted on gaming news sites. What ex-subscribers and potential new players are seeing is "No purples" and "No bank" and "No raids".

You thought SWTOR was dead before? This will stop the corpse twitching.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Amaron on October 20, 2012, 11:53:08 PM
You thought SWTOR was dead before?

It's not even remotely dead.  That's why this looks so draconian.  Going F2P with 500k+ subs is insane otherwise.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Modern Angel on October 21, 2012, 08:15:06 AM
Repeat it until it becomes lodged in your brain forever: 500k for SWTOR is not 500k for LOTRO is not 500k for Rift. That 500k number is them bleeding money and they have to goose numbers.

This is why it's absurd to talk about MMO subs as a constant indicator of success. You can only sort them out in light of how much a game's development costs are


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Fordel on October 21, 2012, 04:00:53 PM
I'm just sad my Trooper's Squad stopped talking to me.  :sad:


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: koro on October 21, 2012, 05:22:07 PM
Well Tanno Vik at least would be quiet anyway, since his voice actor died.  :sad:


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Fordel on October 21, 2012, 06:34:20 PM
Oh I didn't know that.

That makes it even more sad  :cry:


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Amaron on October 21, 2012, 08:33:15 PM
Repeat it until it becomes lodged in your brain forever: 500k for SWTOR is not 500k for LOTRO is not 500k for Rift. That 500k number is them bleeding money and they have to goose numbers.

They already bled the money.  That's totally immaterial to what they do moving forward.  The game can be a total failure and not be "dead".  You need to get over your wish for this game to die and look at reality.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ingmar on October 21, 2012, 10:14:09 PM
Repeat it until it becomes lodged in your brain forever: 500k for SWTOR is not 500k for LOTRO is not 500k for Rift. That 500k number is them bleeding money and they have to goose numbers.

They already bled the money.  That's totally immaterial to what they do moving forward.  The game can be a total failure and not be "dead".  You need to get over your wish for this game to die and look at reality.

This. The game is almost certainly not 'bleeding money' compared to its ongoing operating costs.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Sjofn on October 21, 2012, 10:16:46 PM
Well Tanno Vik at least would be quiet anyway, since his voice actor died.  :sad:

Aw no, really? I liked his voice.  :heartbreak:


FAKE EDIT: INGMAR IS MAKING IT SO I HAVE TO WAIT OUT A POSTING TIMER


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: apocrypha on October 22, 2012, 01:57:00 AM
I was really only going by the discussion on these boards which has mostly been about server merges (that well-known indicator of MMO success) over the last few weeks.

If there's still 500k subs then that's better than I expected at this point, good for them. The announced F2P restrictions however, IMO, will do nothing to increase that number.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: koro on October 22, 2012, 02:46:41 AM
Well Tanno Vik at least would be quiet anyway, since his voice actor died.  :sad:

Aw no, really? I liked his voice.  :heartbreak:

Yep (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0686257/), sadly. Of the evil/thuggish melee tank companions (Vik, Skadge, Broonmark, Khem Val), I disliked Vik the least.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Sjofn on October 22, 2012, 03:06:00 AM
I still haven't met Skadge (Ingmar will want to play his IA one of these days, and my bounty hunter will finally get played), but I've heard he is utterly loathesome. I liked Vik well enough. I mean, he's an enormous douchebag, but he doesn't get all fussy when you tell him so.

Lord Spoiler is also an evil melee tank, however, and he is my favorite of that particular group. I like Khem too, though.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ingmar on October 22, 2012, 03:40:44 AM
Khem is awesome.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Zetor on October 22, 2012, 04:45:46 AM
I didn't roll with Vik simply because he's a tank, and I'm a BETTER tank, dammit. Even if I was a healer I'd go with Mr. Roboto, because... well, yeah.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Lantyssa on October 22, 2012, 08:00:46 AM
Skadge is airlock fodder.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Sjofn on October 22, 2012, 02:54:17 PM
I didn't roll with Vik simply because he's a tank, and I'm a BETTER tank, dammit. Even if I was a healer I'd go with Mr. Roboto, because... well, yeah.  :awesome_for_real:

My healing trooper stuck with Forex until things started dying unbearably slowly, then it was me + Aric or me + Yuun, depending on if I wanted a crabby bastard or a hippie with me.  :grin: Ingmar used Vik a bit in our trooper/smuggler duo. He can be funny sometimes! But Patriotic Robot is pretty much the best. <3


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ingmar on October 22, 2012, 02:59:40 PM
Vik has some great moments, yeah. You'll never see 4X slapping the crap out of a prisoner on Belsavis.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Rokal on October 23, 2012, 04:54:02 PM
http://www.darthhater.com/articles/swtor-news/22092-cartel-market-items-unlocks-and-more

Pay to unlock extra action bars.  :awesome_for_real: You couldn't make this stuff up if you tried.

More gems:

Want to display titles? 100 CC
Want to hide your head slot? 250 CC
Want to use unify colors? 350 CC


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: koro on October 23, 2012, 05:32:38 PM
Jesus wept, that gear is expensive. Don't subbers only get like a 250 coin stipend per month?

Quote
An exclusive sample of the finest goods from the Cartel. Each Pack contains very rare bonus items found nowhere else! Two rare bonus items with a chance of a Super Rare!

GOD.

DAMN.

IT.

I hate this gamble box shit. I hate it in TF2, I hated it in STO, I hated it in Champions, and it's just as godawfully terrible in ME3.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Rokal on October 23, 2012, 05:38:25 PM
Apparently it's 500, which means you can probably expect 100 CC to be $1.

This also means that Flashpoint and Warzone unlocks cost ~$2.40 a week each. If you decide to play the game as a free player with just those two unlocks, you will be paying more per month than a subscriber.

EA has learned that people don't want a monthly subscription, but thinks they will be perfectly fine with a weekly subscription.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ingmar on October 23, 2012, 05:40:53 PM
"A minimum" of 500 coins/month for subscribers, not sure what that weird bit of extra language means.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: koro on October 23, 2012, 05:50:09 PM
Holy Moses.

Things you have to pay to unlock:

Color matching
Title display
Hide head slot
Display legacy name
Extra quickbars (this alone incenses me, even though it doesn't affect me)
Companion customization slots
The ability to even equip event-related gear

This is ludicrous.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ingmar on October 23, 2012, 05:57:29 PM
Almost all of that stuff is entirely cosmetic. They have to charge the F2P people for something.

Quickbars and purple gear are the only things there that matter from a gameplay perspective.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Raguel on October 23, 2012, 06:05:03 PM

Just the fact that "hide head slot" is on the list is funny enough but it looks fairly expensive as well. Just how fugly does  EA/Bioware think head gear is?  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Fordel on October 23, 2012, 06:33:46 PM
Selling quickbars is going to make them so much cash. I can't imagine playing this game with the default bar alone.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ingmar on October 23, 2012, 06:57:10 PM
Better/more readable summary:

http://dulfy.net/2012/10/23/swtor-cartel-market-items/

Some interesting things in the associated patch notes as well:

http://www.darthhater.com/articles/swtor-news/22091-pts-patch-notes-1-5-10-23-12

Subscribers are getting 2 more quick bars, which means that the 'oh god have to pay for quick bars' thing may not be as bad as people think. I don't think we know how many you start with as a F2Per.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: koro on October 23, 2012, 07:00:08 PM
If the current Dulfy descriptions are final, it looks like they're nerfing the Legacy Speeder perk for subscribers come F2P. Currently rank 1 requires character level 10 to buy (allowing you to use a speeder on huge-ass Coruscant and Dromund Kaas), but come F2P it's being increased to 15 so that the coin-buyable version is level 10 instead.

That's kind of grating.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ingmar on October 23, 2012, 07:05:22 PM
Per the patch notes:

Quote
Subscribers may now access speeders at level 15.

Meaning, without a legacy unlock. The legacy unlock stays at 10 with or without coin use.

There are a bunch of things in the patch notes that are improvements for subscribers.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: koro on October 23, 2012, 07:10:40 PM
Ah, I missed that part of the notes. That's not so bad then.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Raguel on October 23, 2012, 10:41:16 PM
25 is way too long to go w/o a speeder imo. This game already features THE.WORST.TRAVEL.SYSTEM.EVER. (well maybe not that bad; I just really hate the orbital stations; cool from an RP standpoint but dumb from a game mechanic view)


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Zetor on October 24, 2012, 03:05:05 AM
Uhh... how do you sell a client-side feature like hotbars anyway? This may just result in client-side modifications that bypass the limitation (unless the game sends "player used ability #2 on bar #4" to the server instead of "player used ability X") And yeah, playing with a single hotbar is impossible above level 10-ish. Three is an absolute bare minimum, but four is a necessity for more complex classes and/or pvp.

Anyway, after reading through all that I found that as a non-subscriber who has previously bought the game ('preferred status'):
- I can level my alts from 1 to 50 without issues, though I WILL have to redo planet quests with the WZ/FP limitations.
- If I want to do WZs/FPs/raids, I need to sub... the licenses are too expensive (if Rokal's assumptions are correct, anyway).
- I will ignore the pay-to-win gear as I did in LOTRO, COH, etc. It is a worrying trend in F2P games (especially compared to GW2's cash shop), but I don't have a huge issue with it until they sell endgame gear that is on par or better than high-quality raid or pvp gear. Only thing I see there is the i56 artifact-quality color crystal usable at level 10...
- I need to spend $ for the one-time- unlocks necessary for gameplay: periodic event gear, artifact gear, 10 GTN slots, at least 3 quickbars, 2 crew skills for 3090 (+250/quickbar). I may skimp on gbank (600), a second bank slot (475), title display (100). Speaking of which, what will happen to stuff in my second bank slot?
- Not sure how inventory unlocks work and how they interact with existing (for-credit) upgrades? Also, are they per character or global?
- I'll ignore the legacy unlocks; I haven't played since they were introduced, so I won't miss them. I assume this means you need to sub or pay to access the legacy system (other than the name)?
- I'm surprised to see only one zone unlock (section X at 600), but I think I vastly prefer it to LOTRO's "ok, now buy all the zones you thought were a part of the base game" approach.
- I will also ignore boosters, cosmetic stuff (this includes color matching etc), emotes and weapon skins. I think these are completely fine for a F2P title's cash shop.

Correct me if I got anything wrong!


e: according to the account page, I start with 150 coins as a past subscriber (I played from dec until feb, which is 1mo of sub and the free month), which means I'll have to buy 2940 coins to get the essential stuff.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ingmar on October 24, 2012, 03:41:56 AM
The only thing I'd add is that there's not really any pay2win gear ... mostly. The crystals you can get out of the random pack things seem to be max value at level 10 so they probably qualify if you get your hands on one, and maybe the level 50 relics would be considered decent. The gear sets ARE cosmetic gear, they just come with mods in them to not be totally lame. You should be up to your ears in usable gear without needing level 31 adaptive gear.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: koro on October 25, 2012, 12:19:10 AM
So the test server was flipped to "Free" mode, and everyone there was considered a freebie.

You get a single action bar for free.

One.

To my knowledge there is not a single class in the game that can fit even their basic core abilities onto 12 buttons.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ingmar on October 25, 2012, 12:22:35 AM
This strikes me as the sort of thing that will have to get changed via feedback yeah.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: koro on October 25, 2012, 12:24:35 AM
Oh, also, all vendor prices are increased (for both credit-accepting vendors and commendation-accepting vendors) by 25% for F2P players.

And Bioware's nixed the one crew skill that F2P players could actually make use of with their single free slot:

Quote
Crew skill that returns lockboxes do not return lockboxes. Instead, players are asked to subscribe to get full rewards.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: proudft on October 25, 2012, 12:58:49 AM
Man, this is like a parody at this point.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: koro on October 25, 2012, 01:10:45 AM
Also, and take this with a grain of salt, but apparently some datamining of 1.5 on the PTR's been done, and some stuff about Chapter 4 of the storyline's been uncovered. Heavy focus on the Hutt Cartel (oh boy...) with only two overarching storylines, one for each faction (maybe with minor variations based on your class), instead of eight individual class storylines.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ingmar on October 25, 2012, 01:14:33 AM
That part at least comes as no surprise, after the layoffs.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: apocrypha on October 25, 2012, 01:24:41 AM
(http://art.penny-arcade.com/photos/217509588_ZSzik-L-2.jpg)


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Nebu on October 25, 2012, 09:44:38 AM
I can't wait to PvP against keyboard turners with 1 hotbar.  Good times.  :uhrr:


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Zetor on October 25, 2012, 09:45:21 AM
They'll only be able to play 3 WZs a week though, so it's okay.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Nebu on October 25, 2012, 10:15:01 AM
They'll only be able to play 3 WZs a week though, so it's okay.

 :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: koro on October 25, 2012, 12:25:04 PM
Quote
We've been observing PTS closely over the last few days. In that time, we have generally been very pleased with how well the build has been performing, as well as overall reaction to the build both on the boards and in-game. That being said, based on community and internal feedback here and further deliberation, we will in short order make the following changes to the Free to Play restrictions:
   
  • Free-to-Play players will now get a second quickslot bar.
  • Free-to-Play players will now be able to do 5 Warzones per week instead of 3.
  • The Cartel Coin item lock (i.e. temporary bind) will be reduced to 3 days for Free-to-Play players, and 2 days for subscribers.

We've found some crucial bugs that needed stomping, which is good. These changes will make their way to you probably early next week.

There are a couple of key concepts that should be kept in mind as you review free to play changes. The first is that, to be honest, all of you are looking at a gameplay mode that you will likely never see. Subscribers who choose to cancel their account will typically revert to something that we refer to as preferred status. My fellow designer Nathan Emmott will in short order have a post up describing the ins and outs of preferred status. Originally, the second quickslot bar was part of preferred status, but this morning based on feedback here and what they were seeing in the community we decided to give it to everyone.

The second is Warzones. Perhaps the most interesting point regarding the Warzones limitation is that some players have concerns that putting limitations on Warzone runs might make Warzone queues less likely to fire. While it is possible that this may happen, we don't think it will -- our subscriber base likely will not shrink much, and for some of our competitors, converting to Free-to-Play has resulted in a subscriber increase! Which means that Warzone queues should likely see improvement from what you experience in game, and at minimum be relatively unchanged in experience.

That being said, one of our golden rules is that the Free-to-Play experience should not cheapen the experience for paying subscribers. If it turns out that the Free-to-Play conversion results in a degraded Warzone experience once we go live for subscribers, you can rest assured that we will quickly make adjustments to the system to ensure that subscribers have an optimal experience.

A second quickslot bar for everyone instead of just "Preferred" accounts and two more Warzones per week? My, aren't we generous.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Lantyssa on October 25, 2012, 12:40:51 PM
Everyone should conspire to not play warzones so they 'fix' it.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Sjofn on October 25, 2012, 12:46:38 PM
If it doesn't actually impact how fast warzones pop, there's not a need to fix it. :P I think it WILL, no conspiracy involved, but if it doesn't? Charge away!


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ingmar on October 25, 2012, 12:54:03 PM
The game is actually playable with 2 bars instead of 1, at least. You'll have to use stuff like buffs and fast travel off of the abilities menu instead of a quickbar, but I can fit just about anything I really need to hit on my 50s on 2 bars.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Fordel on October 25, 2012, 12:59:55 PM
Can you still cycle bars, or is it just 2 bars the end?


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ingmar on October 25, 2012, 01:00:57 PM
The latter I think. Pretty sure smugglers/agents still get their separate cover bar regardless.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Fordel on October 25, 2012, 01:05:53 PM
Also, and take this with a grain of salt, but apparently some datamining of 1.5 on the PTR's been done, and some stuff about Chapter 4 of the storyline's been uncovered. Heavy focus on the Hutt Cartel (oh boy...) with only two overarching storylines, one for each faction (maybe with minor variations based on your class), instead of eight individual class storylines.

Where can I see the data mining stuff?


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Zetor on October 25, 2012, 01:07:33 PM
My healing sage definitely needed at least 2.5 bars [without stuff like quick travel and sprint] and my tanking vanguard used 4 bars almost completely (I think I had 2-3 free spots remaining). Remember that you need to hotkey [or at least hotbar] your speeder, consumables (at least a medpack, switching it out with the warzone stim), your out-of-combat heal, your buff (have to recast them every time you die in a wz), the 'throw huttball' button, and on-use relic(s).


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ingmar on October 25, 2012, 01:14:18 PM
I think you could do without a bunch of those things as hotkeys if you were trying to play on 2 bars. In particular your speeder, buffs, OOC heal, etc. It would be pretty annoying but it wouldn't be unplayable, like the 1 bar thing.

Also note that if you're just playing ONLY FOR FREE FOREVER you're not likely to be doing a lot of play *at* 50, just leveling up people til you get sick of it, in which case 2 bars is plenty of space for most of the leveling process.

I would still give people 3 bars though.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Rokal on October 25, 2012, 01:25:53 PM
UI features should not be behind a paywall for anyone. The end.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ingmar on October 25, 2012, 01:31:54 PM
I'd rather pay once for an extra bar than pay planet by planet for content, personally.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: koro on October 25, 2012, 01:33:38 PM
Also, and take this with a grain of salt, but apparently some datamining of 1.5 on the PTR's been done, and some stuff about Chapter 4 of the storyline's been uncovered. Heavy focus on the Hutt Cartel (oh boy...) with only two overarching storylines, one for each faction (maybe with minor variations based on your class), instead of eight individual class storylines.

Where can I see the data mining stuff?

Not sure. I imagine on Reddit and the official forums. I've only heard it through second-hand sources, hence the "grain of salt".


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: satael on October 25, 2012, 04:40:24 PM
The game is actually playable with 2 bars instead of 1, at least. You'll have to use stuff like buffs and fast travel off of the abilities menu instead of a quickbar, but I can fit just about anything I really need to hit on my 50s on 2 bars.

All this concern over bars makes me appreciate GW2's single bar even more.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Nebu on October 25, 2012, 06:28:02 PM
All this concern over bars makes me appreciate GW2's single bar even more.

GW2 isn't a single bar.  It's a double bar with the illusion that it's a single bar.  Unless you don't weapon swap like I do. 


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ingmar on October 25, 2012, 06:42:32 PM
And quite frankly they could use a place to put inventory-usable items other than in the inventory.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Zetor on October 26, 2012, 02:01:49 AM
The only item in GW2 that could use a hotkey is the revive orb. Everything else is a long-term buff or a non-combat transformation item (and I use stims/flasks/etc from the inventory in other games as well, so that's not a problem for me).

Like I said, client-side restrictions are stupid. Even if we ignore the entire playable/unplayable argument (which we shouldn't), it WILL be worked around with a client-side hack (whether as simple as editing an xml file, or running a 'trainer' program in the background - does SWTOR use a Warden-like integrity protection mechanism, btw?). Having your 'normal' users doing things like that opens a can of worms that you really don't want to open.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ingmar on October 26, 2012, 02:53:50 AM
There are some in-combat potions from Artificing if I am not misremembering.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Zetor on October 26, 2012, 02:59:49 AM
I have a bunch of those [main is a 400 artificer], but they are long-term buffs as well (+x% damage done and -x% damage taken against [mob type] as well as +10% xp from kills for 15-30 min) so using them from the inventory is fine.

e: same with sharpening stones from weaponsmith, btw.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Phred on October 26, 2012, 12:07:54 PM
No, not yet.

Patch 1.4 is probably going live within 2 weeks.

F2P is scheduled for 1-2 months from now.

Way too early a per-announcement on this just like the game overall. I bet they lose a significant chunk of interest before they finally get f2p working.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Phred on October 26, 2012, 03:05:04 PM
More like you pay a dollar and it turns on for a week.  :oh_i_see:

It says it right at the top of the link you posted:

Quote
Preferred Status - Making a purchase will unlock access to the following features:

Most F2P do this now.  They come up with a bunch of draconian restrictions to force a single purchase.  It's a good way to get rid of people who won't actually pay anything.

Or who believe unsubstantiated rumor mongering.
More like you pay a dollar and it turns on for a week.  :oh_i_see:
There's enough to hate about this without making shit up.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: koro on October 26, 2012, 05:02:33 PM
I was referring specifically to the flashpoint, operation, and warzone week-long passes, which have no longer-term option.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Phred on October 26, 2012, 07:06:37 PM
Ah sorry it wasnt very clear.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Phred on October 26, 2012, 07:18:04 PM
And quite frankly they could use a place to put inventory-usable items other than in the inventory.

Ya I was thinking that today. They should have an inventory item area on screen and give you the option of pinning stuff there from your inventory like windows 7.



Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Amaron on October 27, 2012, 10:26:27 PM
The single hotbar was just stupid.   You don't cripple you're free demo to that degree.  Otherwise I'm quite pleased to see how draconian some of that shit is.  You can't even call it F2P with a lot of that.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Miasma on October 28, 2012, 12:24:12 PM
So do you use micro transactions to buy more bars and inventory or is it a black/white type of decision where you get nothing unless you do a monthly subscription?


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ingmar on October 28, 2012, 12:25:50 PM
So do you use micro transactions to buy more bars and inventory or is it a black/white type of decision where you get nothing unless you do a monthly subscription?

You can buy more. Also the first time you buy cartel coins a bunch of stuff unlocks permanently (this is I believe also where you end up as a former subscriber.) Exact list of what is not final afaik.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: ajax34i on October 28, 2012, 09:06:18 PM
They're basically setting up everyone even remotely interested in this game as "preferred."  All the accounts that ever were created, even if they played only the "free" (first) month.  Also, as a true new player, as soon as you provide a CC (to buy cartel coins once), you're preferred.

To me it looks like they're just afraid of RMT'ers and bots using F2P to flood the game.  It's the only thing that explains the decision to cripple the UI.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: luckton on October 29, 2012, 06:26:53 AM
I honestly stopped paying attention to this game and this sub-forum for over a couple months now.  I return here after reading an article on IGN about the recent F2P updates changes, which means I'm ignoring pretty much everything already said in this thread.  A couple thoughts:

- The idea of wanting to charge me to unlock a hotbar is probably the fucking pinnacle of nickel and diming in a MMO.  I suppose they could dive further and want to charge me for the ability to zoom the camera in and out to certain degrees as well, but come the fuck on.  Oh, you fuckers thought about it and decided to allow the F2P peeps to have a second hotbar for free?  HOW FUCKING GENEROUS OF YOU, CAPITALIST JERKS  :uhrr:

- If this is the kind of nickel and diming we can expect of this, how bad is it going to get with other games coming down the line from EA?


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Nebu on October 29, 2012, 07:25:49 AM
Keep in mind that EA has made a lot of money by making small modifications to a product and charging full price.  I don't know why any of this nickel and dime shit surprises anyone.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Sky on October 29, 2012, 08:34:31 AM
They're basically setting up everyone even remotely interested in this game as "preferred."  All the accounts that ever were created, even if they played only the "free" (first) month.  Also, as a true new player, as soon as you provide a CC (to buy cartel coins once), you're preferred.

To me it looks like they're just afraid of RMT'ers and bots using F2P to flood the game.  It's the only thing that explains the decision to cripple the UI.
That seems to be the case, but we'll see how it ends up. Because EA.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Nebu on October 29, 2012, 09:08:02 AM
I'll just pay a monthly sub and turn off the general chat channel.  Just means that I have a bunch of new people to farm in the battlegrounds. 


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Amaron on October 29, 2012, 02:31:23 PM
They definitely made a mistake revealing the non-preferred mode first.  A lot of people are just going to ignore future info at this point.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ingmar on October 29, 2012, 02:35:37 PM
Yeah it is certainly confusing for the non-subscribers.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: koro on October 29, 2012, 05:04:40 PM
Big ol' Q&A post:



Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Sky on October 29, 2012, 05:43:12 PM
Quote
Subscribers will still have 12 character slots available on a single server.  F2P players will have 2 (as will Preferred).  At Launch, we are not enforcing the penalty on subscribers who convert to Free-to-Play, but we will in a subsequent patch.
Ouch. I'm pretty much spoiled by GW2. The f2p+sub model just seems like a sub model.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ingmar on October 29, 2012, 05:49:22 PM
The only odd thing about that, to me, is I didn't see a way to buy individual extra slots (maybe I just missed it.)


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: koro on October 29, 2012, 07:01:00 PM
There isn't an individual character slot purchase. You're either stuck with 2, or you've got 12 as a subscriber.

One or the more telling things about that part of the answer is that it suggests that they actually know how to limit peoples' character slots, which bears out when you realize that everyone still had 12 characters in F2P mode on Test.

Never mind trying to untangle the bag of worms that are those folks with 20+ characters thanks to mass server merges.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: ajax34i on October 29, 2012, 08:43:42 PM
Well, preferreds keep their characters, just have to mark 2 as "active" and the rest will be greyed out.

There's a devblog (http://www.swtor.com/blog/developer-update-technical-changes-game-update-1.5) out that says next patch (1.5) will make changes to the graphics again.  Not shadows, this time it's grass and tree leaves transparency.  To quote, this change also "does not reduce framerate at all" just like the shadows didn't, I'm sure.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ingmar on October 29, 2012, 09:02:29 PM
That does look really nice on the trees in particular.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Amaron on October 29, 2012, 10:59:07 PM
Ouch. I'm pretty much spoiled by GW2. The f2p+sub model just seems like a sub model.

It's sub+cash shop now.  With shitty gambling boxes even.  The worst of both worlds.

This was in the weekly QA:

Quote
Tatile: It's been mentioned that Darth Nihilus' mask dropped from one of the gambling boxes. Is everything in the boxes available outside of them or are some things exclusive? If so, which?

Blaine: A large portion of the items in the Cartel Packs are exclusive to the packs. The great news for anyone who does not want to purchase Cartel Packs is all items in the store can be traded (and thus gifted to friends!) and sold on the Galactic Trade Network. This means that you can get what you want via the GTN if you are patient and have the in-game credits to spend. Also important to note is this is just the start of the offerings you will see for sale in the Cartel Market. As we gather information and feedback on what players want to see, we will certainly make adjustments.

Kiss worthwhile content goodbye.  Why expand storylines when they can just leech off people with gambling problems?


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ingmar on October 29, 2012, 11:29:19 PM
Don't really care about the gambling boxes. Gives me something to dump the free sub coins into, I guess.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Amaron on October 29, 2012, 11:37:54 PM
Don't really care about the gambling boxes. Gives me something to dump the free sub coins into, I guess.

It's not the contents of the box that are a problem.  The problem is they are disgustingly profitable.  The suits get wood and stop doing normal content updates.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: koro on October 30, 2012, 03:19:40 AM
I also suspect that unless the auction house gets absolutely flooded with duplicate items you don't need (which is entirely possible I suppose, after looking at a video of a guy getting the same pants four or five times in a row in the boxes), the prices of said items are going to hover at about the 3-5 million credit range, which is pretty far out of reach for anybody except people who have a legion of alts that sell shit like augments daily. I know it'd take me four days straight of doing dailies on two of my 50s just to afford one 3 million credit item.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Zetor on October 30, 2012, 03:29:16 AM
Is it all cosmetic stuff, or do the boxes give you p2w gear as well (like the uber-crystals with a level 10 req)?


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: koro on October 30, 2012, 03:37:13 AM
The pink-purple crystals in there are the kind that only need level 10, but aside from random junk (like 1-2 tier green tier 6 crafting mats of a random type and a couple random xp/social/whatever boosters) there aren't any "pay to win" things.

It's also really petty on Bioware's part that about half the emotes are locked out for F2P and "preferred" players, and you have to obtain them, piecemeal, though random chance in those gamble boxes.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Zetor on October 30, 2012, 03:44:23 AM
Yeah, that's not so bad then... honestly, I am sort of OK with ignoring all fluff / cosmetic stuff (even when it's fairly important like the ability to display titles), so at this point the two things that really make me dislike this f2p model is the weekly WZ/FP restriction (which they seem pretty adamant about keeping in) as well as the hotbar thing, which is just stupid on several different levels.

Also, the fact that I am only getting 150 coins despite being a preorder 'founder' player, and even a single quickbar unlock is 250. Preferred status or not, that doesn't make me feel good about the transition. (though I do appreciate that they are grandfathering credit-bought storage - would it be worthwhile to resub right now and pour all my credits into unlocking those?)


e: also, it looks like it's not "you can run 3 flashpoints a week", it's "you can roll on 3 drops per week" (inc "let's grief the f2p player" stories, in which people deliberately roll on items that are an upgrade for the f2p player so he uses up one of his rolls without winning anything!). I'm not sure if normal (or even hard-) mode FP gear is worth rolling on once you have a full set of commendation gear or even the baseline "scrub pvp" blue gear they gave to all 50s... have they boosted them?


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Nebu on October 30, 2012, 08:46:50 AM
e: also, it looks like it's not "you can run 3 flashpoints a week", it's "you can roll on 3 drops per week" (inc "let's grief the f2p player" stories, in which people deliberately roll on items that are an upgrade for the f2p player so he uses up one of his rolls without winning anything!). I'm not sure if normal (or even hard-) mode FP gear is worth rolling on once you have a full set of commendation gear or even the baseline "scrub pvp" blue gear they gave to all 50s... have they boosted them?

Seems like a way to deter gold sellers.  FP BoE drops sell well.  Limit the drops they get = limits the gold they make.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Zetor on October 30, 2012, 08:50:09 AM
Why would gold sellers farm FPs? I bet 4 goldsellers can make more credits farming / gathering stuff (or even doing daily quests, yech) than 'farming' FPs, and more importantly those activities are at least partially bottable. For individual goldsellers there's the non-trivial risk of getting votekicked in FPs, as well...

e: that is, unless BOE FP items are insanely rare/powerful/sought-after and can drop off trash mobs... is that the case?


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Nebu on October 30, 2012, 08:51:24 AM
Why would gold sellers farm FPs? I bet 4 goldsellers can make more credits farming / gathering stuff (or even doing daily quests, yech) than 'farming' FPs, and more importantly those activities are at least partially bottable. For individual goldsellers there's the non-trivial risk of getting votekicked in FPs, as well...

It was just an 8:30 am idea.  I'M NOT FULLY CAFFEINATED YET!


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Sky on October 30, 2012, 09:38:03 AM
It's sub+cash shop now.  With shitty gambling boxes even.  The worst of both worlds.
My point is, the way they seem to be positioning even the 'preferred' player, it's still a sub game. GW2 is an actual good implementation of f2p. The hybrid models of the post-sub mmos just seem like setups to get you to sub. For GW2, I can be just fine not spending a cent. For TOR, even with 'preferred status', I'd have to drop in some more money and even then there would still be stuff I'd want at the sub level, so I'd want to sub. Which I won't do. I don't get it. Like I said, I'll withhold judgement until the final details shake out, but it certainly isn't doing much to attract me back (as a former big fan of the game before I got screwed with the name thing).

TL;DR: I will not spend another penny on that fucking game, but I wouldn't mind playing it now and again.
(even when it's fairly important like the ability to display titles)
I read that as 'display titties'. Which would be much better!


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: koro on October 30, 2012, 09:57:42 AM
I wasn't even really aware that there was much of a market for credit-buying in TOR, since I've seen absolutely no advertising for it, and only a single gold spammer mail's managed to reach a character in-game. But from looking around with a quick Google search, I guess somebody is buying credits, if the absolutely absurd prices (about $50 per million credits, which is mind-boggling) are anything to go by.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Amaron on October 30, 2012, 12:48:02 PM
Is it all cosmetic stuff, or do the boxes give you p2w gear as well (like the uber-crystals with a level 10 req)?

Yea it's basically cosmetic.  The super rare stuff in the boxes is all very unique looking in some way.

http://dulfy.net/2012/10/23/swtor-cartel-market-items/#6

I think the mount/light sabers alone will insure the boxes sell like mad.  The odds on these kinds boxes are usually retarded though.  So low they'd be illegal with normal gambling regulation.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ingmar on October 30, 2012, 01:02:17 PM
They're not gambling in any legal sense, they're not even particularly close. Unless you want to call a pack of baseball cards gambling.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: koro on October 30, 2012, 01:23:55 PM
"Gamble box" is still probably the best term for them though, despite being a bit of a misnomer.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Amaron on October 30, 2012, 01:27:14 PM
They're not gambling in any legal sense, they're not even particularly close. Unless you want to call a pack of baseball cards gambling.

The law seems pretty patchy.  In a lot of states even those dorky gumball machines with toys are regulated.  I'm not sure why cards get a pass.  Maybe because you can buy complete sets.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: koro on October 30, 2012, 03:56:59 PM
So apparently if you complete the quest for him on your 50 and then buy the Legacy unlock for it, you can use HK-51 at level 1...


... but all of his gear is level 50, and none of it scales down.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Amaron on October 31, 2012, 03:55:23 AM
That's got to be a bug that will be fixed.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Raguel on October 31, 2012, 01:24:14 PM
Not really sure I want to go through the effort to get a one size fits all companion. Although starting out with a companion may be cool.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: ajax34i on October 31, 2012, 08:06:07 PM
That's got to be a bug that will be fixed.

It's listed among the "known issues" for the patch.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Phred on October 31, 2012, 08:25:46 PM
Well, preferreds keep their characters, just have to mark 2 as "active" and the rest will be greyed out.

There's a devblog (http://www.swtor.com/blog/developer-update-technical-changes-game-update-1.5) out that says next patch (1.5) will make changes to the graphics again.  Not shadows, this time it's grass and tree leaves transparency.  To quote, this change also "does not reduce framerate at all" just like the shadows didn't, I'm sure.

On my old computer which was still within minimal spec, (core duo 8400 and ati 5770) turning off grass and trees made a huge difference because they were using 90% cpu so if they move some grass drawing to gpu it should be a perfomance win for most ppl.




Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ingmar on November 01, 2012, 10:40:38 PM
On the balance implications of +41 stat crystals:

Quote
So the other bit of discussion to have is about the color crystals. I thought in this case that I would start the discussion with all of you, so that you could understand our logic and guide our thinking.

Currently, these crystals appear in cartel packs with a level 10 requirement, and on the store with a level 35 requirement, in order to access stats roughly equal to a standard level 50 color crystal. It's worth noting that color crystals are something that the itemization team stopped improving the itemization of shortly after launch, because people really hated losing their signature lightsaber color because it was no longer Best in Slot. We have, incidentally, seriously entertained removing all itemization from color crystals entirely (it makes many problems go away for us), but we didn't have the time to make such a large change on itemization before this patch went live.

The reason why we put these in with low level requirement is pretty simple: getting an item you can't use in the Cartel Packs really sucks. It's the same reason we pursued the tech that allowed us to make mounts adaptive - we expect a very large influx of new players when we launch free to play, and those guys opening cartel packs to get items they can't use for months (literally, for casual players!) is a negative experience, not a positive one.

So after discussing with the balance team, we decided to put these in with lower level requirements, with the following reasoning:
The balance math shows the bump to be pretty good at level 10 (not something the balance team was uncomfortable with, though), but pretty unremarkable by the time you hit, say, level 30 or so. Since pretty much open world PvP doesn't happen at those low levels, the impact on open world PvP is pretty much negligable.
The way the math works out, the benefit pretty much washed away by the bolster system in warzones, which means there is no significant advantage there.
The crystals are exactly as good as end-game color crystals, which means they have ZERO impact on endgame activities (level 50 ranked warzones, operations, heroic flashpoints, etc). We're still philosophically avoiding putting any stat advantage at this level that subscribers cannot earn through reasonable normal play.
The fact that these items are fully tradeable means that players who do think there's a balance advantage here can acquire them on the GTN for pure credits without spending a single cartel coin.

The net result of all of this is that slapping one of these color crystals in your saber at level 10 effectively makes levelling from levels 10 up somewhat easier, with the benefits tapering off quickly as the player levels up, and eventually zeroing out altogether. We felt, in general, that that was okay. The focus groups that we ran also seemed to think it was okay, as long as we avoided endgame power.

We are more than open to having a discussion about this and other options here (with the proviso that we have very limited time to make changes before this goes live!) if this continues to be perceived as an issue.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Zetor on November 02, 2012, 12:08:57 AM
The phrase "We're still philosophically avoiding putting any stat advantage at this level that subscribers cannot earn through reasonable normal play." is the only thing that worries me in that, since it definitely shows that they're thinking of this as a sub-game first and the f2p part being a demo/trial/whatever.

So, I assume the f2p conversion is happening in less than a month, right? What benefits would reactivating for the remaining period (as opposed to resubbing for a month like... 3 months from now) get me? Are credit-bought storage containers getting grandfathered in  at the time of the conversion only, or at any time someone goes from subscriber to 'preferred player'?


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: koro on November 02, 2012, 01:47:37 AM
The grandfathering of storage and character unlocks is grandfathered in anytime, I believe.

As for what you get if you resub now, I believe you get a few cartel coins when the switchover happens (depending on how long you subbed initially before quitting, or if you own the CE), which should be as early as next week if Bioware actually means to keep to their promise of "new content no later than every six weeks."


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Sky on November 02, 2012, 08:37:55 AM
I've always thought they should remove stats from crystals, or at least put in a stat transfer mechanism. I used sub-par crystals with my SW because I wanted a red saber, dammit.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: koro on November 02, 2012, 09:59:15 AM
There's apparently some talk going on internally about divorcing stats from crystals, but I'm not sure how they'd go about it without either making a new item slot for weapons/offhands as well as a color slot, which would likely require a reworking of the item modification UI.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ingmar on November 02, 2012, 11:21:35 AM
Eh they could just take all that itemization and move it onto hilts/barrels.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: koro on November 02, 2012, 12:39:17 PM
That would wreak absolute havoc on DPS and healers though. You'd have to create a whole slew of new hilt/barrels to cover all the various crystal types (end/wil/end, end/wil/crit, end/wil/pow, etc.), and what would happen to existing hilts and barrels? Would they just get allocated what Bioware believes is the best stat for that mod type, regardless of what you actually used? I know very few DPS or healers who use +41 crit crystals, yet that's what a lot of main and offhands come slotted with standard. You'd have a lot of people having to scramble to find new barrels and hilts to get the stats they want back, and those tend to be some of the most expensive pieces to buy.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Sky on November 02, 2012, 09:23:53 PM
Just put a device on your ship that can attune stats from any crystal bound to you to any color of a crystal bound to you. Beep boop boop beep boop boop stats you want and color to make you sexy.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: koro on November 03, 2012, 02:18:56 AM
Welp, regular maintenance on Tuesday. Guess 1.5's not going to be this week.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Amaron on November 03, 2012, 01:07:15 PM
Welp, regular maintenance on Tuesday. Guess 1.5's not going to be this week.

At least they aren't crazy enough to rush a F2P launch like they are normal patches.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: ajax34i on November 03, 2012, 03:18:38 PM
They just pushed 1.4.something last week; wasn't expecting them to do 1.5 soon.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Phred on November 03, 2012, 10:07:07 PM
Seems to me the obvious solution is to make the crystals like heredity items or whatever they're called in wow. Make the crystals level their stats to match your char level. Would only have to be for the crystals from the rmt shop obviously.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: koro on November 04, 2012, 04:35:22 AM
I'd imagine that's how they want the things to be, but just... kinda... don't know how.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ingmar on November 04, 2012, 10:45:39 PM
Finally got around to renaming Bat Country (mumble Sky's fault mumble) so if you want an invite on Ebon Hawk the guild name is now Bot Country, send a tell to Obrax or Yulla.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Sky on November 05, 2012, 01:07:26 PM
Should've gone with Bšt CÝŁntry just to befit the circumstances.

But sorry, I didn't plan ahead even before I got upset with the situation.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ingmar on November 05, 2012, 10:46:05 PM
Welp, regular maintenance on Tuesday. Guess 1.5's not going to be this week.

Maintenance has now been postponed, so who knows what is happening now.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: koro on November 06, 2012, 07:05:22 AM
Welp, regular maintenance on Tuesday. Guess 1.5's not going to be this week.

Maintenance has now been postponed, so who knows what is happening now.

As of last night:

https://twitter.com/Joveth/status/265585178833985536

Quote
nope. No 1.5 this week. This was going to be a normal maintenance for our systems.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Sky on November 07, 2012, 09:06:25 AM
Email about "You have been rewarded with Cartel coins!"

Quote
Get ready to visit the Cartel Market loaded with coins to spend this November - and turn these golden coins into valuable items such as pets, vehicles, XP boosts, and more! Remember, you must return as a Subscriber to take advantage of this golden opportunity!
Emphasis theirs  :oh_i_see:

Not much of a 'reward' if I have to pay for it, eh?


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Nebu on November 07, 2012, 09:34:20 AM
Not much of a 'reward' if I have to pay for it, eh?

It's more than you got the month before with a sub, so yeah... it's a reward.

I'm back playing this again on Jedi Covenant, Sky... just saying.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Lantyssa on November 07, 2012, 10:24:35 AM
Wait.  I have to sub again to spend the 900 coins I earned for six months of subscription?  The fuck?


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: tazelbain on November 07, 2012, 10:48:13 AM
Fake F2P.  That dog ain't going to hunt, monseigneur.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Amaron on November 07, 2012, 11:01:19 AM
It really is just a glorified demo.  The cost to unlock purples alone is plain stupid.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Kageru on November 08, 2012, 07:43:33 AM

On the positive side they've taken so long most people have forgotten the game exists.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Sky on November 08, 2012, 08:17:31 AM
Strike while the pile of rust is still cohesive, I say.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Nebu on November 08, 2012, 08:28:11 AM
I enjoyed Rift, SWTOR, and the Secret World far more than GW2.  Perhaps I've lost touch with what the gaming community wants.

I'm currently subbed to SWTOR again and I'm having a lot of fun. 


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Lantyssa on November 08, 2012, 08:34:58 AM
Maybe you just like different things.  GW2 is the closest I've found to a lot of my tastes since SWG, but that doesn't mean it's the game for everyone, or that it's perfect.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Zetor on November 08, 2012, 08:40:57 AM
Yep, different tastes, etc.

FWIW I enjoy GW2 more than SWTOR/TSW/Rift, but I liked those 3 games too for different reasons (story for SWTOR and TSW, better DIKU mechanics / character building system for Rift)


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Kageru on November 08, 2012, 08:46:29 AM

Personal tastes are just that, and not that interesting to discuss.

A more fun one is how this f2p does anything useful for the games profitability, popularity moving forward or solves the core problem of setting content expectations it will never be able to fund.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: koro on November 08, 2012, 02:45:16 PM
1.5/F2P is officially November 15th.

http://www.swtor.com/info/news/news-article/20121108

Also: Cartel coins are $4.99 for 450 of them, or $1 per 90 coins, which is about where everyone predicted the price would be, but... kinda worse.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Fordel on November 08, 2012, 03:11:38 PM
I need to sub for at least a month to get my bonus coins from my previous sub months, correct?


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ingmar on November 08, 2012, 03:27:17 PM
I think so yes. You also need to sub if you want more than 2 character slots, since they don't have a way to buy additional slots, at least so far. For me that's by far the biggest must-sub factor.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: luckton on November 08, 2012, 03:43:55 PM
Bullshit.  And I bought the freaking Collector's Edition, too.  Nickel and dime me some more, EA  :uhrr:


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Sky on November 08, 2012, 03:50:28 PM
Not to mention the whole Stan Cholo and Juke Whybother thing. It's all about your personal story, except where it's not.

Would you like Stan to shoot first? Please pay $4.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Sjofn on November 08, 2012, 03:57:00 PM
I have literally no idea what you are trying to say, Sky.


I understand the desire for snappy one-liners and shit, but sometimes I have the hardest time understanding what the hell people actually mean.  :heartbreak:


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ingmar on November 08, 2012, 03:57:46 PM
At least it wasn't a post about FFH!  :grin:


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Amaron on November 08, 2012, 06:11:45 PM
Press Q&A summary here: http://www.darthhater.com/articles/swtor-news/22284-bioware-press-q-a-reveals-free-to-play-launching


So extra character slots are on the way pronto.

A more fun one is how this f2p does anything useful for the games profitability, popularity moving forward or solves the core problem of setting content expectations it will never be able to fund.

The real angle here is to sell cash shop stuff to subs.  With 500k+ subs they don't have to pull in as many with F2P.  They want to milk the current subscribers.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Amaron on November 08, 2012, 06:39:41 PM
Found another interesting tidbit:

http://www.reddit.com/r/swtor/comments/12vfma/psa_two_character_freepreferred_account/

So basically they won't implement the two player limit for a while.  Probably after they put character slots in the cash shop.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Reg on November 09, 2012, 07:08:11 AM
At least it wasn't a post about FFH!  :grin:

Wow, do you think it's possible to distract his endless crushing on Kael into this thread? That way maybe I could actually find out whether Fallen Enchantress is any good in the Fallen Enchantress thread.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: eldaec on November 09, 2012, 07:15:18 AM
Am I dumb or is this absurdly complicated?


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Nebu on November 09, 2012, 07:35:09 AM
Allow me to change my look and my race for cash and they will get more money out of me.  I'm sick of looking at my stupid blue twi'lek head.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: koro on November 09, 2012, 07:45:03 AM
I always weigh the chances of stuff being done against a simple metric: "Does this seem less technically difficult to accomplish than getting voluntary character transfers to their Test server working?" If "yes", then I put all hope for it out of my mind. If "no", I file it away back at the end of the queue behind all the other stuff that they should do some time or other with the small staff they have left.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: ghost on November 09, 2012, 08:20:55 AM
Allow me to change my look and my race for cash and they will get more money out of me.  I'm sick of looking at my stupid blue twi'lek head.

You deserve to be punished for making a blue Twi'lek.   :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ingmar on November 09, 2012, 12:55:49 PM
Am I dumb or is this absurdly complicated?

I think it's pretty simple really! Subscribe -> get everything.  :-P


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Lantyssa on November 09, 2012, 01:54:24 PM
I think it's more simple:  I'm done with subscription games.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Sjofn on November 09, 2012, 02:07:11 PM
Allow me to change my look and my race for cash and they will get more money out of me.  I'm sick of looking at my stupid blue twi'lek head.

You deserve to be punished for making a blue Twi'lek.   :why_so_serious:

FUCK YOU, DUDE TWI'LEKS ARE AWESOME

Although I prefer pink ones.  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: eldaec on November 09, 2012, 04:49:45 PM
Am I dumb or is this absurdly complicated?

I think it's pretty simple really! Subscribe -> get everything.  :-P

I may just do this.

I don't actually think it is terrible value to pay $15 every now and again to play through an expansion pack's worth of 'things'.

The wider Micro-trans 2 Play thing seems like it should have been designed more like WoW's free-for-a-substantial-trial. As it stands attempting to play by microtransaction sounds pretty fucked up and way beyond the analysis I want to do when I could have just paid the price of a cheap round of drinks and then started playing. 

Holy shit I just said a thing should be more like WoW.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Sjofn on November 09, 2012, 05:16:47 PM
<marks that down in her calendar>


But yeah, I very briefly thought about letting my sub run out and just dicking around as a NON-PAYING LEECH (since they're giving away the BEST part (the story shit) for free), but then I decided the whole thing is too complicated and since I am perfectly fine paying them a sub already, it's not worth the headache.

Oh God, I've played right into their hands. Again!


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Fordel on November 09, 2012, 05:43:02 PM
YOU FOOL!



As I am not Sjofn and don't have DragonAge syndrome, I may just F2P my trooper to do the occasional daily or whatever.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Amaron on November 09, 2012, 09:15:57 PM
I think it's more simple:  I'm done with subscription games.

Just out of curiosity, do you spend much on GW2 cash shop?


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Lantyssa on November 09, 2012, 10:34:29 PM
Nope.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Kageru on November 10, 2012, 02:47:29 AM
Am I dumb or is this absurdly complicated?
I think it's pretty simple really! Subscribe -> get everything.  :-P

If they could get subs they wouldn't be doing this at all.

But a game needs to be designed and budgeted to fit the revenue stream. Trying to chop a game designed for subscription into f2p, without cannibalising subscriptions is why we see these sort of pointless semi-conversions that are just stealing focus and resources.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Mattemeo on November 10, 2012, 08:13:24 AM
Quote
All former subscribers who reactivate their subscription by the new date of December 20, 2012 at 11:59am CDT will be granted Complimentary Cartel Coins for their prior paid months up to November 15, 2012.

...so not only do I have to pay more money to get my "complimentary" Cartel Coins that I essentially paid for through subscribing since release, but there's also a fucking "complimentary" expiration date?

 :mob:


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: eldaec on November 10, 2012, 08:33:59 AM
You don't have to do anything.

EA is not the boss of you.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Amaron on November 10, 2012, 02:39:03 PM
Trying to chop a game designed for subscription into f2p, without cannibalising subscriptions is why we see these sort of pointless semi-conversions that are just stealing focus and resources.

Not really pointless.  They now have a game with subs+cash shop and not much bitching from subbers.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Sky on November 10, 2012, 04:08:04 PM
I bet trying to lure back the people they alienated would've been a good business move.

Or just go ahead and continue alienating them, whatever.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Venkman on November 11, 2012, 07:54:04 PM
Yea but the reason people left was due to game design things that are far more expensive to change than a billing model.

Separately, I imagine they're a bit re-energized now that some new movies are coming. They got a couple of years to figure out how to evolve this game to align :-)


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Fordel on November 11, 2012, 09:16:37 PM
So when they first did the merges, I lost Fordel and renamed myself Fordell (two L's). Now that they did the super mega mergers, I have somehow reclaimed Fordel, as I had that as a level 1 alt name on our original server...



 :?


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ingmar on November 12, 2012, 12:39:37 AM
Time to level a new Trooper clearly!


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Nevermore on November 12, 2012, 12:55:11 AM
I'd be jumping for joy if the names I lost were suddenly available.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Fordel on November 12, 2012, 02:11:50 AM
Depends if I can get them to move the name back to the proper toon now.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Amaron on November 12, 2012, 03:25:32 AM
The thing with the names is definitely moronic.  With F2P starting it will be even worse.  Even something simple like a "display" name would go a long way.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: koro on November 13, 2012, 08:57:12 AM
SWTOR-Spy now has a calculator (http://www.swtor-spy.com/guides/swtor-cartel-market-calculator/2769/) for determining the dollar cost of the stuff in the market. Apparently some things have increased in price.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ingmar on November 13, 2012, 01:08:46 PM
And other things have dropped in price I think? I could swear quickbars were more than 250 each last I saw.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Zetor on November 13, 2012, 01:11:42 PM
Nah, quickbars were always 250... though in practice I'd rather go with the account-level quickbar (at least 1, probably 2). 2 quickbars + artifact unlock are 3780 coins total, that's $27.49 - $42. Where are they getting the dollar prices from (and what's with the huge variance), btw?


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ingmar on November 13, 2012, 01:14:04 PM
Ah, that's what I was missing, account-wide unlocks at the end.

Yeah, things are just generally too high in price it seems like. I get 1750 coins for subbing since launch and having the digital deluxe bonus, if anyone was curious. Won't go far if you're intending to try to F2P it. (I'm not, so w/e on that for me.)


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Zetor on November 13, 2012, 01:14:45 PM
Yep, I have 150 coins for 1 month of sub (preorder + free month don't give any coins).


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ingmar on November 13, 2012, 01:15:37 PM
The variance in price by the way is because the bigger bundles of coins are cheaper in a per coin sense.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Evildrider on November 13, 2012, 05:55:31 PM
I'll be keeping my sub, I'm gonna blow all my saved up coins on those cartel packs and then done.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ingmar on November 13, 2012, 05:57:05 PM
I think I might buy a bunch of account inventory/bank unlock things so I don't have to spend any credits on alts 5-16.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Amaron on November 13, 2012, 09:59:58 PM
Yeah, things are just generally too high in price it seems like.

The artifact license is the one that makes the least sense.  You'd only really want that at 50.  If you're playing at 50 you're subbing one way or another.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: eldaec on November 14, 2012, 03:34:20 AM
I really don't understand the strategy here.

They get the stink of desperation associated with "free" to play, but haven't provided a viable, sustainable, or even comprehensible path for microtransaction players. I cannot imagine what sort of player could conceivably want to pick their way through that mess in order to play without subscription. It even seems to create issues with existing players who for some reason now think "F"2P should mean the game is cheaper overall.

If this a story based mmo, why not just have people pay per story, maybe leaving the prologues free.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Zetor on November 14, 2012, 03:42:15 AM
It's not f2p, it's a trial. I think they expect 'f2p' people to convert to subscribers once they get annoyed enough by the restrictions. They aren't really expecting old subscribers to come back either (I mean srsly, 150 coins and some grandfathered storage for preordering the game at $60+?).

The only problem is -- when people get annoyed by the restrictions, they tend to quit instead.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: eldaec on November 14, 2012, 03:47:54 AM
And if they just said that it would make sense to me. Obfuscating the cost of playing in a reasonable way just seems like terrible marketing.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: koro on November 14, 2012, 08:57:29 AM
Nah, quickbars were always 250... though in practice I'd rather go with the account-level quickbar (at least 1, probably 2). 2 quickbars + artifact unlock are 3780 coins total, that's $27.49 - $42. Where are they getting the dollar prices from (and what's with the huge variance), btw?

The $42 is the actual hard dollar value of the 3780 coins (90 coins per dollar, revealed during the conference call last week with coin pricing details), and I assume $27.49 is how much it costs in dollars if you buy the highest-tier coin packs, which give you a better dollars-to-coins conversion rate.

Edit: In fact, it even says so right at the top of the page:

Quote
This tool also helps you determine how many coins it will cost to buy all the items you are interested in and an estimate cost in USD. Low price point is calculated at 137 coins for 1$ exchange rate (what you get when you buy the biggest coin package) and high price point is 90 coins for 1$. Just click on the "Add to wishlist" link and browse away.

Also, I messed around with it a bit, and to get an F2P account as close to parity with a subscriber's account as you can get, it costs 12,650 cartel coins, or between $92.34 and $140.56, depending on the size of the coin packs you buy. After that, it's between $28-42 a month to unlock access to Warzones, Flashpoints, Operations, and space missions. Even then, you're still stuck with only two characters (once they implement that), a strict in-game credit cap (that can only be removed via subscribing), and a hefty XP penalty.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Amaron on November 14, 2012, 03:51:13 PM
And if they just said that it would make sense to me. Obfuscating the cost of playing in a reasonable way just seems like terrible marketing.

The cost of playing is easy to see.  You just click on $$$ buttons and quickly understand the cost is subscribing.  There's no way they'll admit it's a trial.  The whole point is to shoehorn in the cash shop.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Rokal on November 14, 2012, 04:05:26 PM
The cost to unlock most of the things I feel like I "need" (account-wide unlocks for artifact/event gear, companion tradeskills, UI elements, etc.) adds up to around $50. That's the box cost to buy-in to a relatively complete gameplay experience. I feel pretty comfortable with that, though I'd have felt much better spending $80+ on game content instead.

My wish list at this point would be:

-removing the hotbar limitation entirely for all players, even those that spend nothing
-adding monthly discounted passes for warzones/FPs/OPs.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Raguel on November 14, 2012, 04:10:05 PM

What I'd like to do is the ability to share legacy (and maybe coin) across servers. My old EQ/DAoC friends will decide to join  ANY DAY NOW so I want to be able to hit the ground running when I reroll on another server.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Sjofn on November 14, 2012, 04:28:04 PM
Tell them to roll on Ebon Hawk, silly!

Actually cross server legacy WOULD be delightful, I have friends on Jedi Covenant. :(


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: eldaec on November 14, 2012, 04:32:53 PM
Another general point on this design, too many of the features you don't start with are necessary to make the game enjoyable. Locking med droids? Seriously?

If the trial isn't fun why the hell would people start to sub.

 Also, this feature nickel and diming is all very well, but every time a microtrans player unlocks a thing they are going to feel that investment is wasted if they sub (rationality be damned) putting another barrier between them and a subscription.

I just don't get it.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Fordel on November 14, 2012, 04:37:55 PM
So when they first did the merges, I lost Fordel and renamed myself Fordell (two L's). Now that they did the super mega mergers, I have somehow reclaimed Fordel, as I had that as a level 1 alt name on our original server...



 :?


As expected:

Quote
Unfortunately, at this time server transfers, account to account transfers, name changes, race changes, and legacy changes are not services that we offer. While this may change in the future, currently we are unable to offer assistance with these requests.


 :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Raguel on November 14, 2012, 04:58:30 PM
Tell them to roll on Ebon Hawk, silly!

Actually cross server legacy WOULD be delightful, I have friends on Jedi Covenant. :(

yeabut I'd want to start over with them and I pretty much already filled up all my slots already. Most of them I think are still on the first planet tho.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Shatter on November 14, 2012, 09:34:26 PM
I have one more for their F2P model.  Subs get to keep names, F2P can choose names but if a sub takes it then F2P loses it.  Brilliant I know


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: UnSub on November 14, 2012, 09:59:05 PM
I have one more for their F2P model.  Subs get to keep names, F2P can choose names but if a sub takes it then F2P loses it.  Brilliant I know

That is the most incredibly brilliant, genius-level MENSA-grade stupidity I've ever heard.

EDIT: Is there a link to that info somewhere?

Given how EA has been behaving towards SWOR's F2P, I found it plausible.  :grin:


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Amaron on November 15, 2012, 02:08:41 AM
Locking med droids? Seriously?

Yea that's a pretty fatal flaw.  There's no ghost mode to skip mob packs on your corpse run.  I expect they'll nix it very fast.

EDIT: Is there a link to that info somewhere?

It was a joke.  They aren't actually doing that.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: koro on November 15, 2012, 12:14:55 PM
And despite a twelve hour downtime:

Quote
Todayís server maintenance has been extended with no ETA. We will update as soon as we have more info. Thank you for your patience.

Show of hands, who's surprised? Anyone?

Didn't think so.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Nebu on November 15, 2012, 12:26:06 PM
They've had some router issues as well (post Sandy), so it doesn't surprise me given their skeleton crew.  Fortunately, I have a job and it will be up when I get home  :grin:


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Sky on November 15, 2012, 01:21:36 PM
I'm looking forward to the f2p lulz. Especially if they did more server merges, will I even make it past char select? I'll be sure to have a cold beer handy.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Fabricated on November 15, 2012, 01:47:40 PM
I got an email giving me my complementary 100 cartel coins. Gee, thanks. Maybe I will continue to not play.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ingmar on November 15, 2012, 01:48:27 PM
I got 3 emails giving me 100 each, but from the actual page I'm supposed to be getting 1750. I'm not sure the emails were a good idea.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: koro on November 15, 2012, 01:54:30 PM
Those "100 coins" emails are apparently an error.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: ajax34i on November 15, 2012, 02:23:27 PM
Not even gonna log in (not gonna patch) until a couple days pass and they go through .a and .b fixes.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Raguel on November 15, 2012, 02:43:02 PM
I got 3 emails giving me 100 each, but from the actual page I'm supposed to be getting 1750. I'm not sure the emails were a good idea.

what page is this you're talking about? I guess I haven't really been paying attention.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ingmar on November 15, 2012, 02:44:35 PM
Well you can't get to it until the maintenance is over, but if you go to swtor.com there should be a "You've been awarded Cartel Coins" thing you can click on, then log in and see how many coins you're entitled to.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: rattran on November 15, 2012, 04:59:39 PM
Looks like it's 100 cartel coins for a security key. Says I have 650 if I resubscribe though!


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Sjofn on November 15, 2012, 05:37:01 PM
The party jawa is AMAZING.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Evildrider on November 15, 2012, 05:38:00 PM
Yeah, the Party Jawa rocks.  People are going cartel pack crazy.  I know a bunch of people in my guild that even bought more coins.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Amaron on November 15, 2012, 05:54:15 PM
I bought a bunch with my existing coins.  Mostly to cash in on the early demand.  They're probably worth more unopened.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: ajax34i on November 15, 2012, 06:51:58 PM
People are spending hundreds of dollars on the cartel packs then posting in General Discussion how they got crap (or didn't get the crap they wanted).  It's funny.  I'm guessing EA-Bioware are making a fortune right now.

Bugs mentioned on the forums:  F2P'ers unable to create characters, abilities being wiped from bars 5 and 6 in the middle of combat, being slammed with the non-subscriber restrictions as soon as you cancel subscription rather than after 30 days, account-wide speeder skill purchases only applying to 1 character, and patching errors.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ingmar on November 15, 2012, 06:55:02 PM
Yeah I read a couple of those threads and was pretty amused. (I still will be suckered I am sure.)


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: ajax34i on November 15, 2012, 06:57:58 PM
I'll probably buy account-wide max inventory, and glowy eyes, but not until they patch / make sure that account-wide actually applies to all characters.  There seem to be bugs, currently.  Emergency patch tomorrow.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Fordel on November 15, 2012, 08:18:14 PM
That's what I am leaning towards too, account wide cargo holds. Kinda boring though.



Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: eldaec on November 15, 2012, 08:23:22 PM
Bought a pack, received...

Slate Mouse Horranth pet
A theatening emote
6 units of some kind of medical supplies for crafting
25% xp for one hour in flashpoints
Purple Companion Gift


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Fabricated on November 15, 2012, 08:34:11 PM
Okay I'm sorry, but this fucking slayed me.

(http://i.minus.com/iXiOmVx6cnShu.gif)


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Shatter on November 15, 2012, 09:19:38 PM
Party Jawa is awesome, rest of this sucks Jedi balls


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: koro on November 15, 2012, 09:42:44 PM
So in the five hours I put in tonight, I saw about a dozen people return to my guild Empire-size that hadn't played in many months, most having quit back in February or March. Most of the logged in, saw the F2P restrictions first-hand, and then realized they had to resub to get their "free" Cartel Coins, and promptly left.

I suspect that this is a theme that's been replayed throughout the game all night long.

Edit: Also, are there any other F2P MMOs out there that tick down your paid-for XP boosters while you're logged out? This is the only game I can think of that does.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ingmar on November 15, 2012, 11:01:28 PM
I got that sweet blaster rifle with the laser scope thing.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Hawkbit on November 15, 2012, 11:41:18 PM
Okay I'm sorry, but this fucking slayed me.


Heh, that got me too. 

I tried to get access to my account, but because I used a mobile authenticator I need some security key to log into my account.  I gave up after about five minutes trying to access it again; they told me I have to call them  to get it restored.  Fuck a phone call; we're in 2012 now.  Only people that should be using the phone are government employees, who will start using email about the same time we develop telepathy. 


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Sjofn on November 16, 2012, 01:21:16 AM
Enjoyed the HK intro stuff, did a hard mode for it tonight that totally wasn't that hard, etc.

Sage healing is still boring as fuck, though.  :heartbreak:


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Fordel on November 16, 2012, 01:43:46 AM
I even YOLO'd for you, what more do you want!


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ingmar on November 16, 2012, 01:59:53 AM
The HK stuff is fun except for the scavenger hunt part.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Sjofn on November 16, 2012, 02:04:23 AM
I even YOLO'd for you, what more do you want!

And I appreciated it, I assure you!


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: eldaec on November 16, 2012, 02:20:18 AM
Who do I talk to / what mission do I do to start the HK stuff?


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Fordel on November 16, 2012, 03:01:12 AM
Little Astromech droid at SECTION X (On Belsavis).


For Republic At least.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Lantyssa on November 16, 2012, 06:04:35 AM
I logged in, wandered a little, restored my layout which is missing all the side bars, noticed I have no email access whatsoever, didn't get the Party Jawa that I stayed subbed for past the date to earn, and logged out.

I'd have uninstalled then and there, but Vu wants to try logging in to see how bad it is, so I was copying the folder over.  SWToR is dead to me.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: eldaec on November 16, 2012, 06:37:19 AM
The "free" element is ridiculous and likely counterproductive.

The cash shop seems well implemented.

The number of coins being given to subscribers seems too generous. Not sure who is going to be desperate to spend more than 600 thingys a month on hats.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Nebu on November 16, 2012, 07:13:22 AM
The number of coins being given to subscribers seems too generous. Not sure who is going to be desperate to spend more than 600 thingys a month on hats.

I see the benefit being in leveling alts.  The +25% xp bonus consumables may be what I spend my coins on.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: koro on November 16, 2012, 09:05:32 AM
The number of coins being given to subscribers seems too generous. Not sure who is going to be desperate to spend more than 600 thingys a month on hats.

My guildmaster and two of my guildmates all had about 3,000 coins accrued from playtime and collector's editions and shit.

They still spent about $40 each buying more. I've also heard of people spending $60-80 trying to find one thing they want (usually the throne), and not getting anything.

If Bioware keeps adding new cartel packs each month like they say they will, they'll have no problems getting money from those with more of it than sense.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Lantyssa on November 16, 2012, 09:19:02 AM
Vu pointed out to me this morning that yesterday was the Seven Year Anniversary of the NGE...


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: ajax34i on November 16, 2012, 09:58:46 AM
Missing Party Jawa is a bug that's happening to some people, they're working on it, so my guess is you'll get it, open a petition.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: koro on November 16, 2012, 12:19:06 PM
Funny enough, Bioware says explicitly not to open petitions for missing Party Jawas. Presumably this is a vain attempt to lessen the CS ticket load, whose response times were measured in weeks even before F2P hit.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ingmar on November 16, 2012, 01:03:12 PM
Yeah the Party Jawa thing is fairly common apparently.

The "free" element is ridiculous and likely counterproductive.

The cash shop seems well implemented.

The number of coins being given to subscribers seems too generous. Not sure who is going to be desperate to spend more than 600 thingys a month on hats.


~1000 coins to global unlock bank tabs for all characters, and you can do that a few times, so that's something you can sink stuff into assuming you have alts that aren't fully banked up. Can use coins for any legacy unlocks you don't have yet, too. Neither of those things are done from the shop, they're done from the cargo hold and legacy screens respectively. Same with (I think) global inventory slot buys. Didn't log on a character without full inventory unlocked already to check yet.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Amaron on November 16, 2012, 05:33:15 PM
I tried to get access to my account, but because I used a mobile authenticator I need some security key to log into my account.  I gave up after about five minutes trying to access it again; they told me I have to call them  to get it restored.  Fuck a phone call; we're in 2012 now.  Only people that should be using the phone are government employees, who will start using email about the same time we develop telepathy. 

If you lost your authenticator they sure as hell shouldn't let you remove it via email.  You're going to have to get used to taking better care of those keys.  Moving forward you're going to need them for everything.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ingmar on November 16, 2012, 05:37:03 PM
EA did do a poor job with the mobile authenticators, though - the Blizzard ones are handled better.

Physical authenticators for life for me though.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Evildrider on November 16, 2012, 06:57:18 PM
EA did do a poor job with the mobile authenticators, though - the Blizzard ones are handled better.

Physical authenticators for life for me though.

Well, at least EA hasn't had their authenticators hacked.   :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Tannhauser on November 16, 2012, 09:17:32 PM
Started back up this morning to check out f2p.  Somehow I was upgraded to a preferred customer but with no cartel coins.  Got bank and AH access as well as my hotbars.  So that made playing a lot less confining than I was expecting.  Overall, I could see myself playing this for free.  The game still looks good and my Mercenary performs as before.  I did have some negatives though.

1.  XP gain as f2p is really low.  Or maybe it's always been pretty low?  Anyway, they make those xp boost items very tempting.
2.  No 'Sell All Junk' button?  How long has this game been out?  What have the devs been doing, I don't see a lot of new content.
3.  I got an amazing purple helmet, but need to spend cartel coins to wear it.  I bet lots of folks got a sweet purp to tempt them. /tinfoil
4.  The daily to unlock HK costs, you guessed it, cartel coins.  In fact they really really monetized the nooks and crannies of this game.

No cartel coins were spent and I had a fun time.  Felt a lot like LOTRO's f2p model.  Now I've got two MMO's that are free and I don't have to buy the WoW or Rift xpacs. 


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ingmar on November 16, 2012, 09:20:35 PM
Sell all junk in SWTOR is done with right click companion picture and send them off to do it a la Torchlight.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Amaron on November 17, 2012, 01:36:17 AM
Well, at least EA hasn't had their authenticators hacked.   :awesome_for_real:

The authenticators themselves weren't hacked.  Blizzard's servers got hacked.  Thus any keys Blizzard was storing were compromised.  I'd guess the physical authenticator keys are stored by vasco. 


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: koro on November 20, 2012, 08:24:17 AM
I hope none of you have more than 12 characters on a server due to server merges:

Quote
11. For subscribers with more than 12 characters due to the server consolidation, will they have to purchase character slots to unlock them once the character slot restrictions are put in place?

That is the current plan, yes. We donít think itís fair to everyone else who wasnít lucky enough to get this accidental side benefit from server merges. However, those additional characters arenít lost, and players will easily be able to unlock those characters. The timeline for this is TBD.

So Bioware fucked up and launched with far more servers than they needed, so people who had presences on multiple servers get to pay for it.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: ajax34i on November 20, 2012, 09:08:11 AM
I wonder what percentage of the playerbase that is, though.  I may be wrong but I don't think a significant amount of people played more than 12 characters to a level where they need to keep the characters.  There are only 8 storylines.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Sky on November 20, 2012, 10:21:56 AM
Yeah, I had some name placeholders. Which leads to fun things like now I have a placeholder character with my SW's name  :oh_i_see:

Screwing over the day 1 CE people for names is still my main issue with the game. It just ain't the same playing my Trooper B‚rt or my Shadow Skˇ.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ingmar on November 20, 2012, 11:45:23 AM
I hope none of you have more than 12 characters on a server due to server merges:

Quote
11. For subscribers with more than 12 characters due to the server consolidation, will they have to purchase character slots to unlock them once the character slot restrictions are put in place?

That is the current plan, yes. We donít think itís fair to everyone else who wasnít lucky enough to get this accidental side benefit from server merges. However, those additional characters arenít lost, and players will easily be able to unlock those characters. The timeline for this is TBD.

So Bioware fucked up and launched with far more servers than they needed, so people who had presences on multiple servers get to pay for it.

Nobody should be surprised by this, and it really isn't going to be a big deal. Nobody is 'paying' for it; everyone who wants more than 12 slots (on the same server type, you can still make 12 dudes on each server if you really want) is paying the same thing.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Amaron on November 20, 2012, 03:03:49 PM
1.6 is up on test now.  http://www.swtor.com/info/news/news-article/20121120 http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=559053

It's basically the new warzone + a series of "epic" space missions. 

I hope none of you have more than 12 characters on a server due to server merges:

Most of those people don't really have 13+ characters.  They just happened to have a crapload of placeholders and level 5 alts.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Sjofn on November 20, 2012, 04:01:22 PM
I have 12 characters on Ebon Hawk, down from the 16 I had once they did the mandatory merge. I had to delete down to 11 so I could redo my dude sith warrior as a twi'lek (he was just squatting on the name, more so I wouldn't forget what I had thought of than anything), and it ... wasn't hard, as all the ones I deleted were levels 1-10. :P

I kinda figure if I could painlessly cull down to 12 when I didn't even really need to yet, most people can.  :heart:


In case you were wondering what my insanity breakdown is:

Level 50 scoundrel, level 50 commando, level 50 assassin, level 50 sage, level 50 guardian, level 50 operative, level 49 gunslinger, level 47 juggernaut (paired with Ingmar), level 32 marauder, level 19 sentinel (paired with Ingmar), level 12 powertech (paired with Ingmar) and level 12 shadow (in a FOURSOME).

I have issues.


EDIT: Oh, and I have a level 28 BH (mercenary?) on the other RP server, but I forget he exists half the time. He exists mostly in case I get bored and want to see the BH storyline before Ingmar is ready to level his IA with my Proper Bounty Hunter.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Tannhauser on November 21, 2012, 04:48:17 AM
So I did some f2p and got back into the game.  But the draconian limitations of f2p annoyed me so I re-subbed.  Which I think was their plan all along.  After GW2, it's fun to go back into a more stately, story heavy game.  I'm interested in this 'epic' space battle patch coming, that's something I was clamoring for during my original tenure.

What's most annoying about f2p was I seemed to be capped on three characters and there wasn't a cartel coin unlock for more slots.  Or did I miss it? 


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: eldaec on November 21, 2012, 04:53:28 AM
Black hole commendations from space missions?

 Its like they want us to forget that the godawful tionese/columni/rakata outfits even exist!


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Fabricated on November 21, 2012, 08:38:39 AM
My ship was an avatar of death with all the best parts equipped and you still couldn't fuck around too much on some of the hardest missions, so that'll be interesting.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: eldaec on November 21, 2012, 09:10:05 AM
They've invented 'even better spaceship bits'.

Hopefully at the same they fixed the photon torpedo interface so you can bind it to a different key.

Also afaik the original game has zero thermal exhaust ports to shoot them at. This must change.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Lantyssa on November 21, 2012, 10:33:48 AM
All torpedoes ever did were to mess up my missile lock-ons.  Hope they change them entirely.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ingmar on November 21, 2012, 07:54:42 PM
There's really only one mission where that is annoying, but yeah it is pretty annoying in that mission. I just shoot the torpedoes at the shield generators and forego the little credit bonus for shooting the bridge on that one.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Montague on November 21, 2012, 11:42:23 PM
So apparently EA fucked up the Cartel Coins already. I got an email saying I was "accidentally" given my month's supply of cartel coins early, so I wouldnt get any next month. Ok, cool with me I dont plan on being subbed next month. I log in and instead of 600 or so more coins being in my account, it says zero, and the Customer service forums are exploding with people that spent Cartel coins, got their stuff, then had everything rolled back with NO REFUNDS. Shitstorm incoming.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: koro on November 22, 2012, 12:04:52 AM
Also bear in mind that the rollback where people lost thousands of coins happened five days ago, and Bioware has not addressed the issue beyond the standard "no refunds" form letters they send out to people who open tickets, which only started filtering out to players days after the incident.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: eldaec on November 22, 2012, 06:44:07 PM
Actually quite enjoying this again.

Sprint at level 1 and speeders at level 10 is huge. As others have pointed out, knowing how to not give a shit about the planet stories helps as well.

But for a game aiming to take in ultra casuals, it still does a terrible job of helping new players find stuff. And I still can't imagine how terrible the game would look to someone coming in new as f2p.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Amaron on November 22, 2012, 09:41:55 PM
And I still can't imagine how terrible the game would look to someone coming in new as f2p.

Most of the new player comments for the game have been good.  The worst parts of F2P seem to annoy them far less.  The two bar limit is seen as just another aspect of character building for instance.  I expect tunes will change at 50 of course.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Nebu on November 22, 2012, 09:47:25 PM
The first and second trip to 50 in this game is wonderful.  The game falls flat after that. 

I think that the F2P people will enjoy the entry level game and may even spend a bit on the game.  That's not the problem.  Where the game suffers is in its ability to retain people longer than a couple of months. 


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Sjofn on November 23, 2012, 12:31:18 AM
And I still can't imagine how terrible the game would look to someone coming in new as f2p.

Most of the new player comments for the game have been good.  The worst parts of F2P seem to annoy them far less.  The two bar limit is seen as just another aspect of character building for instance.  I expect tunes will change at 50 of course.

Really depends on the class/spec, too. My healy-sage could easily, EASILY be played with two quickbars.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Zetor on November 23, 2012, 12:40:08 AM
And I still can't imagine how terrible the game would look to someone coming in new as f2p.

Most of the new player comments for the game have been good.  The worst parts of F2P seem to annoy them far less.  The two bar limit is seen as just another aspect of character building for instance.  I expect tunes will change at 50 of course.

Really depends on the class/spec, too. My healy-sage could easily, EASILY be played with two quickbars.
Hasn't been my experience at all (talking about level 50). I'll log into my healing sage to check, but I seem to remember I was using 3 full hotbars when I quit in Jan. I do agree that some classes have it far worse, I have no idea how my tanking vanguard's skills could be fit into 3 hotbars, never mind 2...

e: just checked, it looks like this:
first hotbar (mostly healing) - healing trance, force armor, deliverance, rejuvenate, mind snap, throw huttball, force potency, restoration, force stun, medpack, force slow, mount
second hotbar (mostly damage and cooldowns) - tk throw, disturbance (of all skills, this MAY be the only not strictly necessary one), mind crush, weaken mind, forcequake, noble sacrifice, force mend, salvation, revival, cloud mind, meditation, force of will
third hotbar (pvp / cc stuff) - force lift, force speed, force wave, project, [force valor, heroic moment, heroic legacy skill 1, heroic legacy skill 2, heroic legacy skill 3 - I guess you could use these from the spellbook], double strike (again, insanely situational, but it has helped me defend a node once when all my instant nukes were on cooldown), warzone healing item, warzone adrenal.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: koro on November 23, 2012, 12:46:36 AM
If I cut out the stuff I don't use or only use during solo play, my healing Sorc's abilities could pretty easily fit onto two bars.

My tanking Juggernaut, on the other hand...


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ingmar on November 23, 2012, 01:02:28 AM
I can fit my dps smuggler and healing trooper on 2 bars no problem (cover bar helps though) and my madness inquisitor is on 2 *easily*. The only caveat with those is I have my interrupt bound to a key sitting over on another bar somewhere. And that's assuming you can stand to hit stuff like your buffs and fast travel from the menu instead of a bar.

Tank JK is definitely another matter, and of course if you have items from your craft like grenades or adrenals or whatever you are going to be going over 2 on anyone. (Also legacy abilities take up a shitload of space eventually but if you're F2P you're carrying what, 2 of those at most?)

It's hard to imagine ever really needing to go over 2 bars while leveling.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Sjofn on November 23, 2012, 01:09:33 AM
And I still can't imagine how terrible the game would look to someone coming in new as f2p.

Most of the new player comments for the game have been good.  The worst parts of F2P seem to annoy them far less.  The two bar limit is seen as just another aspect of character building for instance.  I expect tunes will change at 50 of course.

Really depends on the class/spec, too. My healy-sage could easily, EASILY be played with two quickbars.
Hasn't been my experience at all (talking about level 50). I'll log into my healing sage to check, but I seem to remember I was using 3 full hotbars when I quit in Jan. I do agree that some classes have it far worse, I have no idea how my tanking vanguard's skills could be fit into 3 hotbars, never mind 2...

e: just checked, it looks like this:
first hotbar (mostly healing) - healing trance, force armor, deliverance, rejuvenate, mind snap, throw huttball, force potency, restoration, force stun, medpack, force slow, mount
second hotbar (mostly damage and cooldowns) - tk throw, disturbance (of all skills, this MAY be the only not strictly necessary one), mind crush, weaken mind, forcequake, noble sacrifice, force mend, salvation, revival, cloud mind, meditation, force of will
third hotbar (pvp / cc stuff) - force lift, force speed, force wave, project, [force valor, heroic moment, heroic legacy skill 1, heroic legacy skill 2, heroic legacy skill 3 - I guess you could use these from the spellbook], double strike (again, insanely situational, but it has helped me defend a node once when all my instant nukes were on cooldown), warzone healing item, warzone adrenal.


Off the top of my head, my sage's first quick bar goes like this:

autoattack, heal 1, heal 2, heal 3, bubble, project, pebble swarm, stun, force lift, knock back

second quickbar I don't know nearly as well:

legacy lightning storm, moment of glory, a bunch of other shit I don't use, like my DoTs, and my interrupt

And honestly? 99.9% of the time, I need absolutely nothing else. My rezzes and shit are off on my side bar, mostly to remind me they even exist, but I don't NEED them on an easily accessable quickbar. My medpacs are over there too, but I literally cannot remember the last time I needed to use one.

Now grant you, I do not PvP on my sage. If I was a f2p person, I wouldn't be PvPing at all (I PvP on my scoundrel, who I think I'd need three bars to feel happy about, but I could probably cut him down to two if I had to). But for the shit I do? Two bars is more than enough. If I HAD to, I could probably play her with one. :P

Sages are boring.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Zetor on November 23, 2012, 02:03:46 AM
Well yea, I did pvp with my sage pretty extensively (see also my various bitching posts about the state of pvp at 50 for an undergeared healer  :why_so_serious:). I also haven't soloed after hitting 50 because daily quests can die in a fire, so I don't have things like Unity on my hotbar (and probably could move all the Heroic Moment stuff off, too).

I can fit my dps smuggler and healing trooper on 2 bars no problem (cover bar helps though)...
Hmm, good call on the cover bar. I played around a bit on my level 20 operative this weekend and was really annoyed that I was out of space already (ended up moving the heroic moment/legacy stuff, my self-buff and most of my heals off my bars).

On the bright side, since quick travel has a ridonkolous cooldown as f2p, I don't feel obligated to keep it on my hotbar anymore!  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: eldaec on November 23, 2012, 02:17:34 AM
I have 6 bars on my level 50 assassin, damage, buffs, and cc+random shit adorn a block of 3 on the bottom. Travel and out of combat buffs/stances on the left, on the right go mission items plus emotes, stims, medpacks, pets. Then finally bar 6 is the companion bar.

I honestly could cope with 2 bars until level 50, but it would make me sad as I wouldn't have so many lovely buttons to choose from, and they'd be all cramped together.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Zetor on November 23, 2012, 02:26:21 AM
Oh yeah, mission items, I forgot all about those. Have they added a WOW/RIFT-like way to use mission items directly from the mission tracker yet?


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Evildrider on November 23, 2012, 02:28:45 AM
Oh yeah, mission items, I forgot all about those. Have they added a WOW/RIFT-like way to use mission items directly from the mission tracker yet?

That has been in for awhile now.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Amaron on November 23, 2012, 03:18:48 PM
Can you still page through other hotbars on F2P?  I can't fathom being forced to open the power window constantly.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Fordel on November 23, 2012, 03:51:19 PM
If you can page through bars, then 2 bars is more then enough for most of the classes.


Any Warriors or Operatives are still fucked with just 2 though.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: koro on November 23, 2012, 04:03:46 PM
Can you still page through other hotbars on F2P?  I can't fathom being forced to open the power window constantly.

You can page to the second bar if you don't have it activated, but that's it.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Amaron on November 23, 2012, 06:39:07 PM
You can page to the second bar if you don't have it activated, but that's it.

Yea I can't see that as enough past 25 then.  You need buttons for mount/rest/buffs/etc.  At the same time that's a good time for new players to stop being leeches.  The people getting shafted here are the ones who actually bought the game box.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Tannhauser on November 23, 2012, 06:43:53 PM
I bought the CE on pre-order.  Went back in the other day and I have lots of hotbars.  My cartel coin count was zero.  Are we sure box buyers are getting that shaft? 

Amaron, you're right, at level 22 (Sith Inq/Ass) I'm needing my third hot bar. 


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Zetor on November 24, 2012, 12:10:20 AM
Yes, box buyers are getting the shaft. I pre-ordered the game (normal, not CE), played for two months (free month + 1 month of sub), and I'm limited to two hotbars. As I said before, 2 bars would already be insufficient at level 20 for an agent if it wasn't possible to 'cheat' with the cover bar (not that it's a universal remedy, since it's clunky to switch to cover every time I want to use ability x - I guess it works for rarely-used abilities). I have 0 cartel coins, but if I subscribed before december X, I'd get a whopping 150 cartel coins (~$1.50). Not a huge motivator...

In fact, the only 'veteran advantages' are the inventory/bank slots I unlocked for credits (but I'm pretty sure anyone could sub for a month and do the same), and being able to access all 4 of my characters instead of the 2 that would be allowed for f2p'ers (but this is "temporary", and I'll be locked down to 2 characters soon enough)


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ingmar on November 24, 2012, 12:22:03 AM
Well, the cover bar isn't really cheating for half of agents.  :-P


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Amaron on November 24, 2012, 01:43:59 AM
I'm guessing some sort of changes will be announced in a few weeks.  The system really needs to hook former subs back in better.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Rokal on November 26, 2012, 06:08:28 PM
After two weeks, they have decided to give preferred status players the 4 quickbars they were accustomed to (and that you realistically need to play the game).

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=562422

If you already bought quickbars, they are going to do something to make it up to you. Why they decided to launch with such a terrible limitation in the game, only to reverse it a few weeks after it had already pissed everyone off, is a mystery. Now they also get to deal with the head-ache of refunding players that did buy it, if they even are willing to refund it. Bravo.

This was really the last change I needed them to make before I was willing to play the game again. Selling features that were required (imo) to play the game normally was insanity and didn't make me comfortable about the future of their F2P model. Looking forward to picking up the story on my BH and Smuggler.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: eldaec on November 26, 2012, 06:47:44 PM
I struggle with how anyone is 'getting the shaft' given you can always not play and be in the same situation you were before the micro trans thing.

But I agree its a bad scheme for bringing in subs.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Amaron on November 26, 2012, 11:57:31 PM
If you already bought quickbars, they are going to do something to make it up to you. Why they decided to launch with such a terrible limitation in the game, only to reverse it a few weeks after it had already pissed everyone off, is a mystery. Now they also get to deal with the head-ache of refunding players that did buy it, if they even are willing to refund it. Bravo.

I expect their line of thinking was that only new players would have to buy hotbars.  They didn't really WANT to think about former subs coming back and playing for free.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ingmar on November 27, 2012, 12:10:09 AM
So, in 1.6 they're adding a quest at level 50 that basically gives you a free set of Tionese gear. In addition to the one that gives you the recruit PVP gear. Ugly suits all around!


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Zetor on November 27, 2012, 01:54:07 AM
I struggle with how anyone is 'getting the shaft' given you can always not play and be in the same situation you were before the micro trans thing.

But I agree its a bad scheme for bringing in subs.
It's relative. Other f2p transitions (lotro, coh) gave me a ton of rewards for having bought the box and past subscription months (also multiple past expansions, but that doesn't apply here); SWTOR gives me $1.50 worth of coins (I'd get $0 if I bought the box but only played for the free month, fwiw) for my preorder + box purchase + 1mo of past sub, and only if I choose to resub before december - otherwise I get put in the same category as anyone who spends $1 at the cash shop or whatever. Grandfathered inventory is nice, but anyone can sub for a month and get it too; being able to access all my characters instead of 2 is just temporary until they get the code working. You can call it entitlement, but vet rewards are absolutely huge for getting "stickiness" and bringing past subbers back (and honestly in SWTOR's case, how many SW / Bioware / MMO fans who may be tangentially interested in the game did not buy the box to begin with?).

Ontopic, I think the hotbar change is great - to reiterate, client-side functionality restrictions are fuckstupid - and will probably get me playing again at one point (maybe even splurge for the artifact cert). Re 1.6: when is the ETA, and are they giving out a new pvp recruit set too? I know that the blue set I got a long time ago was basically fodder status, but seem to have read somewhere that there was a "recruit gear mk2"


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Amaron on November 27, 2012, 02:02:00 AM
Re 1.6: when is the ETA, and are they giving out a new pvp recruit set too? I know that the blue set I got a long time ago was basically fodder status, but seem to have read somewhere that there was a "recruit gear mk2"

Recruit Mk-1 gear is not that bad.  What makes it bad is that you aren't going to augment it.  When 1.6 hits you can get War Hero for practically no time spent.   Buy the cheapest pieces first and augment them immediately.   You'll be fighting at par very quickly.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Raguel on November 27, 2012, 02:20:51 AM
So, in 1.6 they're adding a quest at level 50 that basically gives you a free set of Tionese gear. In addition to the one that gives you the recruit PVP gear. Ugly suits all around!

I haven't really cared much about the endgame until I saw how horrible my sniper was at soloing. I had to switch to my jug in order to get HK-1. I'd love to get better gear fast and cheap, especially if that allows me to farm a bit to help out the other chars.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Fabricated on November 27, 2012, 05:49:36 AM
After two weeks, they have decided to give preferred status players the 4 quickbars they were accustomed to (and that you realistically need to play the game).

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=562422

If you already bought quickbars, they are going to do something to make it up to you. Why they decided to launch with such a terrible limitation in the game, only to reverse it a few weeks after it had already pissed everyone off, is a mystery. Now they also get to deal with the head-ache of refunding players that did buy it, if they even are willing to refund it. Bravo.

This was really the last change I needed them to make before I was willing to play the game again. Selling features that were required (imo) to play the game normally was insanity and didn't make me comfortable about the future of their F2P model. Looking forward to picking up the story on my BH and Smuggler.
Hey wow, I might actually play now. Might even sub for a month to get my funny money!

I can't recall the overall cost; but just hand out some incidental thing that fits in the UI- like free color matching on their account or something.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Amaron on November 27, 2012, 09:04:51 AM
They really screwed the pooch this morning.  Gear on companions isn't giving them stats.  You can re-equip them but dismissing them breaks it again.  Thus any time you mount a speeder your companion becomes naked.  The game is basically unplayable solo right now.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: koro on November 27, 2012, 09:12:36 AM
Yeah, and the last time this happened it took Bioware over a month to fix, and that was before  their big rounds of layoffs.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Nebu on November 27, 2012, 09:17:08 AM
Yeah, and the last time this happened it took Bioware over a month to fix, and that was before  their big rounds of layoffs.

The skeleton crew working on SWTOR will be the demise of the game.  The game is still plagued with many of the issues from beta and the community is restless about it.  EA is really trying to squeeze revenue from this title with as little input as possible. 

I'm having fun playing the level 1-49 pvp bracket and running the story quests, but am quickly reminded of the reasons that I left the game to begin with.  Shame really... so much lost potential here.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Tannhauser on November 27, 2012, 09:20:40 AM
Wow, that sucks.  I'm really back into it.  Hop I can play tonite.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Amaron on November 27, 2012, 09:33:07 AM
I was hoping to hit 50 today.  Trying to find a group at this level is just too annoying though.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: eldaec on November 27, 2012, 09:41:26 AM
The flip over to 50 and the suddenly effective group finder makes an enormous difference. From 30-49 its guild mate or gtfo.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Raguel on November 27, 2012, 10:00:26 AM

I'm having difficulty responding to this bug w/o NERDRAGE so I'll talk about something else. I didn't know characters can speak with some emotes ("no", "yes"). I'd like to use my sorcs fave sayings ("obey me or perish") to greet people I group with.  That'd be something I'd love to see in the cartel or whatever.



Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Tannhauser on November 27, 2012, 10:34:39 AM
I was hoping to hit 50 today.  Trying to find a group at this level is just too annoying though.

Hoping to hit 50 tonite too on my BH.  First 50 for me.  I enjoy soloing even though I have some downtime. 


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Paelos on November 27, 2012, 12:57:55 PM
I tried last weekend to get into this. Got to lvl 10 on my agent, and promptly got so frustrated with the restrictions I just gave up.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ingmar on November 27, 2012, 01:02:33 PM
Which of the restrictions are even meaningful at level 10?


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Nebu on November 27, 2012, 01:14:12 PM
I tried last weekend to get into this. Got to lvl 10 on my agent, and promptly got so frustrated with the restrictions I just gave up.

Level 10 is where you get your sub class.  To be fair, the game doesn't really get fun until about level 20 or so with an agent.  Level 35-50 is where I enjoyed it most.  I have a level 50 sniper, level 50 Op, level 45 smuggler and enjoy them all.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Amaron on November 27, 2012, 01:28:44 PM
I was hoping to hit 50 today.  Trying to find a group at this level is just too annoying though.

Hoping to hit 50 tonite too on my BH.  First 50 for me.  I enjoy soloing even though I have some downtime. 

Looks like we're not going to get our wish.  Doesn't sound like they'll be fixing the bug today.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Paelos on November 27, 2012, 03:35:51 PM
Which of the restrictions are even meaningful at level 10?

That's when I got the message. CONGRATS NOW YOU GET REDUCED XP ON TOP OF ALL THE STUFF!

It was just one of those  :ye_gods: :mob: moments.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Zetor on November 27, 2012, 03:38:50 PM
The "YOU WOULD BE GETTING REST XP IF YOU WERE A SUBSCRIBER, BUT YOU DO NOT BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT. LOLOL NOOB" messages whenever you enter a cantina are pretty amusing too, but I don't mind them. Really, with the hotbar limit gone, the game should be fine as long as you have preferred status (to get sprint, remove chat restrictions, etc) which is really really cheap to get. How big is the xp reduction anyway?


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: koro on November 27, 2012, 03:45:43 PM
20%.

Honestly, the 25% extra added to all vendor costs would drive me absolutely bugshit crazy after a while, and you cannot ever remove that unless you sub.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Raguel on November 27, 2012, 04:02:50 PM
Speaking of which, is anyone else getting random bugs related to f2p? For example I had one character that was bugged as f2p the other day: she had no sprint and only 1 bar. I logged onto 2 different chars and they were fine. I had to quit and start again for everything to be fine.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: koro on November 27, 2012, 04:04:56 PM
I have a couple guildmates who see that bug happen on at least one character every day.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Rokal on November 27, 2012, 04:05:29 PM
20%.

Honestly, the 25% extra added to all vendor costs would drive me absolutely bugshit crazy after a while, and you cannot ever remove that unless you sub.

I heard it was 25% less XP, and no rested XP. Honestly, I am okay with both of those restrictions because the leveling curve already seemed too fast. This just means that free players will be doing the extra quest series on each planet and running more FPs.

I have a bigger problem with the 25% increased currency costs which I didn't learn about until yesterday. That appears to cover all currency, so you'll even have a harder time spending commendations from specific planets  :heartbreak:

Eurogamer posted a brutal re-review of SWTOR after the F2P patch, which feels increasingly accurate as I continue to find out about new restrictions on premium players.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-11-26-star-wars-the-old-republic-re-review

Quote
The Old Republic's biggest failing as a free-to-play game, though, is its attitude. It doesn't simply push you to subscribe. It levies so many petty restrictions that it ends up feeling like the goal wasn't to attract newcomers so much as spite any who dared show up. One of many examples: if you don't at least unlock Preferred status by spending a few quid (or returning to an old account), you're not allowed to Sprint until Level 15. Yes, that was the case at launch. It was changed shortly afterwards because the maps are huge, and getting around them at walking pace was and remains a deeply miserable experience.

Of course, BioWare needs to sell things to make this model work. That's not the problem, and most of what subscribers get is fine - early access to mounts, all-access passes to content and so on. The catch, as any game with the sweeties budget to enlist a six-year-old child could tell you, is that the free side of the game is just as important. The more people stick around, the more they're likely to buy - if not quick cosmetic stuff, then maybe extra maps or lockboxes or similar. All players matter, if not as VIPs to spoil right now, then as potential customers next month, or in three months, or next year.

The Old Republic has no time for this, preferring to treat non-subscribers as third-class citizens - even the ones willing to spend money on individual purchases. These unworthies earn no rested XP, with even regular XP being acquired at a lower rate. Quick Travel is now on a two-hour cooldown instead of half an hour. Even opening a shop window (not including the real money one) means getting a snippy "Vendor prices are increased for Free-to-Play Players".

This is not how subscribers are won. This is how 20GB of disk space is recovered.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: koro on November 27, 2012, 04:10:39 PM
The part about F2P I agree with fully, though the stuff before it grousing about the story (which suddenly sucks now that bashing on TOR's the thing to do) and comparisons to other recent MMOs' story offerings kind of had me rolling my eyes a bit.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: ajax34i on November 27, 2012, 04:56:34 PM
Don't jump in just yet.  There are still a few random bugs, and they're just getting back from their week-long Thanksgiving break when even their customer support went silent / got disconnected.

Current major bugs seem to be:  companion armor bugging out at every cinematic, when you use your vehicle, etc., and if you get logged out from the server due to being idle, the game thinks you've gone F2P and takes your bars and stuff away (full restart of the game fixes it, but you still have to repopulate your bars I think).



Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ingmar on November 27, 2012, 05:10:27 PM
I have been kicked out due to being idle and not turned F2P - does it only happen to 'premium' people maybe?


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Sjofn on November 27, 2012, 05:11:38 PM
The flip over to 50 and the suddenly effective group finder makes an enormous difference. From 30-49 its guild mate or gtfo.

Huh, I haven't had trouble getting dungeons to pop on my 35-ish marauder. It's not instant pop, but it's not a long wait either. And he's just a derp DPS!


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Raguel on November 27, 2012, 11:19:30 PM
if you get logged out from the server due to being idle, the game thinks you've gone F2P and takes your bars and stuff away (full restart of the game fixes it, but you still have to repopulate your bars I think).

so that's it lol. I do that all the time.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Zetor on November 28, 2012, 03:00:59 AM
The part about F2P I agree with fully, though the stuff before it grousing about the story (which suddenly sucks now that bashing on TOR's the thing to do) and comparisons to other recent MMOs' story offerings kind of had me rolling my eyes a bit.
The only game that is even comparable to SWTOR in this area is TSW imo, and that's just the writing - the overall narrative/story is better in SWTOR still, imo, not to mention there's a lot more of it (yeah, some of it is silly, and the Superweapon of the Day trope is a bit tired, but what can ya do). MOP and GW2? yeah no, and I say this as someone who doesn't think the GW2 story is too bad.

I'm not sure if they would've been better off just monetizing some of the story content (say... the level 40+ planets, since you have a pretty good hook in the player at that point) instead, LOTRO-style. OTOH the fact that they did not do this is a huge plus in their f2p model for me, so yeah.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: eldaec on November 28, 2012, 01:09:00 PM
My big issue with superweapons in SWTOR is that people keep talking about them but you never actually see them because lol MMO.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Zetor on November 28, 2012, 01:12:25 PM
You end up killing a few of them, I guess that counts  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: koro on November 28, 2012, 01:40:42 PM
My big issue with superweapons in SWTOR is that people keep talking about them but you never actually see them because lol MMO.

Well, you get to actually test-fire one in the  story, and you get to see the effects of one in the  story.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Nebu on November 28, 2012, 01:48:20 PM
I really need to stop spamming the space bar when I quest. 


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Sky on November 29, 2012, 01:24:36 PM
I really need to stop spamming the space bar when I quest. 
Heh.

I've been dropping in to play my newbie Inq every now and again. I forgot how much I like the story stuff, especially when grouped. I got in the most godawful group on Korriban, three wipes and I'm sure one guy was afk most of the time. Then I solo'd the gold mob that spawns in the open area, got a nice blue saber drop which afk guy 'needed' and got. Dropped that group and promptly ended up in a fully awesome group with another Inq and a SW that just wrecked those 2+ quests, made me remember how much fun grouping can be in this game.

Still not sure how much the f2p stuff will chafe in teh long run, but it's a nice compliment to GW2 and PS2.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ingmar on November 29, 2012, 01:31:37 PM
Fordel, Sjofn, a 3rd friend, and I are doing a 4 person group through everything (planets, dungeons, story quests as we've all seen the ones we're not playing, etc.) and it's pretty awesome. Social points are through the roof too, we're level 18 and almost done with Coruscant, and I already hit Social 3.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: koro on November 29, 2012, 02:13:04 PM
Even in a duo I was Social VI by the time I hit 50; I can see a four-man-band hitting Social X by 40.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Nebu on November 29, 2012, 02:17:41 PM
I always thought that it was stupid that they didn't give social points for doing Heroic FP's.  Did they ever change that?  My sniper has run like a bajillion Heroics and is still social 1. 


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Zetor on November 29, 2012, 02:28:09 PM
Don't you get social points for doing esseles / black talon on hardmode?


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Nevermore on November 29, 2012, 02:33:55 PM
I'm surprised they never made social points apply to your whole Legacy instead of keeping it per character.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ingmar on November 29, 2012, 02:37:04 PM
They've talked about it, I suspect it's just not really a front burner issue.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: koro on November 29, 2012, 02:45:08 PM
I always thought that it was stupid that they didn't give social points for doing Heroic FP's.  Did they ever change that?  My sniper has run like a bajillion Heroics and is still social 1.

You get social points for killing (most) champion-tier enemies and for each boss in flashpoints. Heavy flashpointing while leveling will net you about social 3-4, and doing Hard Mode FPs at 50 will rocket you up the Social tiers. Raiding gets you even more Social points. You can also buy social point boosters from the auction house for a song, since every Cartel Pack has a high chance of coming with a bunch.

Just as an example, my Juggernaut tank who only started doing FPs at level 30 when 1.3 hit (bringing with it both the group finder and boosted Social through flashpoints) outstripped the Social ranks of every one of my peers in the raid group - many of whom had been playing since launch - by the time I hit 50. I hit Social X almost two months ago; the rest of my raid started hitting it this week.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Nebu on November 29, 2012, 03:06:22 PM
[... doing Hard Mode FPs at 50 will rocket you up the Social tiers.

Are you positive about this?  At release Hard Modes gave 0 social points.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ingmar on November 29, 2012, 03:10:24 PM
Pretty sure they changed that a long time ago.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Nebu on November 29, 2012, 03:20:10 PM
Pretty sure they changed that a long time ago.

Pretty sure isn't very convincing.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ingmar on November 29, 2012, 03:27:11 PM
A quick check indicates it was changed in 1.3 (same patch where they made social gear adaptive and added social point rewards for killing champion mobs.)


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Nebu on November 29, 2012, 03:27:46 PM
A quick check indicates it was changed in 1.3 (same patch where they made social gear adaptive and added social point rewards for killing champion mobs.)

Danke!


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: koro on November 29, 2012, 03:35:06 PM
I'm also pretty sure I mentioned that changing in 1.3.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Nebu on November 29, 2012, 03:47:16 PM
I'm also pretty sure I mentioned that changing in 1.3.

... and who are you again?   :grin:


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Amaron on December 05, 2012, 07:17:37 AM
Seems like the new covert pilot suit is a huge hit republic side.  Even despite that I was able to grab it for about 1.5 mil.  The outfits are going to be some big money items once they put in original ones.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Tannhauser on December 05, 2012, 09:37:34 AM
Need to get me some of that action.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ingmar on December 05, 2012, 12:47:49 PM
I sold 2 stacks of 5 of whatever the blue tier 8 crafting thing is for 1.25 million each, as they happened to come out of a couple packs I bought, lucky me. Now I have a throne.  :drill:


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Tannhauser on December 05, 2012, 12:50:32 PM
Can you elaborate on that item?


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ingmar on December 05, 2012, 12:55:57 PM
I'll try to figure out the name when I get a chance. Basically I just looked at the various 'crafting materials' that I had on hand after opening packs, and checked the prices of everything on the AH. Almost everything is pretty low value except that one and some purple cube thing - the cubes are worth less, and also haven't sold.

EDIT:

These things. http://www.torhead.com/item/guPvKRe/molecular-stabilizer


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: koro on December 05, 2012, 01:40:35 PM
Molecular Stabilizers are worth a small fortune because they're used for quite nearly everything crafting-wise at the current end-game.

Rank 26/27 item modifications? Check
Reverse-engineered Campaign/Dread Guard armor and weapon models? Yep
Black Hole/Hazmat implants/earpieces? Mmhmm
The new better-than-Dread Guard droid parts? Sure do

About the only things that don't require them are buff stims and augments. Hell, even the new crafted ship parts coming in 1.6 also require them (among a slew of other expensive shit).

The purple Tier 8 crafting mats (the little cubes) go for much less because you tend to use fewer of them; recipes using Stabilizers typically use 4-6 of the things while the Matrices are only needed in batches of 1-2 (and sometimes none). My guild's bank usually hovers between 70-100+ of the Matrices, while Stabilizers are usually in the 0-20 range. You can get maybe about 60 per week if you do all of the raids where they drop* and due to the retarded drop system used for the highest tier of raid gear in Terror From Beyond, everyone needs many of them for item mod crafting.

In case you're curious/don't know, each boss in TFB (even hard mode) drops only one piece of loot per kill in a standard 8-man raid (two pieces in 16-man), compared to two pieces per kill in every other raid in the game - including the newest, Nightmare difficulty Explosive Conflict. The first TFB boss only drops Hazmat gear, which pulls from an item pool with literally hundreds of things in it, the second boss only drops one token for set boots, the third only one glove token. The last two bosses are where it gets stupid: the fourth boss drops only one item like everything else, but he can drop either the offhand token OR the pants, with a 50% chance of each; in nearly two months of killing him weekly, we've seen the pants exactly once. The final boss can drop either the main hand or the chest piece with similar odds of each happening, and we've seen the main hand only once in a month of kills. So not only does the lower amount of loot slow down gearing to a crawl, the random chance on the final two bosses means that loot goes to waste more often than not.


*Four per chest in Explosive Conflict, with three chests and two lockouts in which they drop. Six per chest in Terror From Beyond, with three chests and two lockouts as well. You can also get them via lockboxes with Fleet Comms from doing space missions, but they require a week's worth of grinding space in order to get one raid chest's worth of mats.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: rattran on December 07, 2012, 01:53:06 PM
Jumped back in, and discovered my 34 sorc and 50 merc are both unplayable with 2 hotbars. I'll try again with 1.6, but it wasn't playable enough for me to even consider subbing again.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ingmar on December 07, 2012, 01:54:33 PM
Well, if you subbed you'd have 6 bars.  :-P


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: rattran on December 07, 2012, 01:59:28 PM
I'm not willing to give them money unless it's fun, and it's hard to check for fun with that restriction.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Amaron on December 07, 2012, 02:15:08 PM
I'm not willing to give them money unless it's fun, and it's hard to check for fun with that restriction.

You have at least 4 bars as a former sub.  If you can't even be assed to figure out how to open them you're just being a whiny bitch.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ingmar on December 07, 2012, 02:20:00 PM
Preferred don't have 4 bars on live yet, I don't think - they announced they were changing, but I don't think they've pushed it out yet.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Fabricated on December 07, 2012, 02:23:56 PM
Looking at the cartel coin calculator I'd need to spend "Price: 26.09$ - 39.72$" to get the amount of stuff I'd need to never wanna sub again.

http://www.swtor-spy.com/guides/swtor-cartel-market-calculator/2769/

Ehhh. I'm having a hard time deciding if it's worth $15 to sub for a month to goof around and get my free funny-money for my previous sub time.

edit: I was able to enable 4 bars last time I logged in. I think it was hotfixed in.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ingmar on December 07, 2012, 02:26:44 PM
Ah, cool. I thought it was part of 1.6. So rattran might just need to open up the interface editor and load the 'extended quickbars' template.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Zetor on December 07, 2012, 02:45:31 PM
I did end up resubbing for a month, but not because of the 'bonus' cartel coins ($1.50 equivalent for a box preorder + 1 month of sub is kinda laughable as an incentive, sorry) or the hotbars (finding 2 hotbars when I logged in was a deterrent, not an inspiration to resub -- but like others have said, they've thankfully gone back on this).

Anyway, game's still decent to play, and the story is second-to-none in MMO land. It kinda scratches a different itch than WOW-MOP (which I unsubbed for now) and GW2 (which I still enjoy a lot, and it doesn't have a monthly sub) for me -- think of it as renting a triple-A single-player game for $15/mo. The 'preferred player' option is WAY too hamstrung to enjoy, imo... and you'll probably end up spending more $ to get the same perks that are built into a sub.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: rattran on December 07, 2012, 02:57:11 PM

You have at least 4 bars as a former sub.  If you can't even be assed to figure out how to open them you're just being a whiny bitch.

Bite my shiny metal ass.

Ah, cool. I thought it was part of 1.6. So rattran might just need to open up the interface editor and load the 'extended quickbars' template.

Yeah, didn't give me more than 2 hotbars last night. Maybe it was put in, but if so it's buggy.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Tannhauser on December 07, 2012, 06:56:45 PM
Yeah, I've heard complaints in /general that it's a bit buggy for free and preferred.  As a sub though, I'm enjoying smooth sailing.  I did buy a bunch of cartel coins.  First pack I opened was a sweet speeder bike and I sold one of them on the AH for about 350k so I'm quite happy.  Lots of credits to craft with.

I do hope they continue to add content to the game.  Would love to see new planets but that requires voice work in addition to the normal design.  Maybe they'll hold off on that for an xpac.  If there is one.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Amaron on December 07, 2012, 07:45:00 PM
Yeah, didn't give me more than 2 hotbars last night. Maybe it was put in, but if so it's buggy.

Hmm my bad if it's just being buggy.  They added them in tuesday.  I'd try creating a new UI profile.  They might just be invisible.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: rattran on December 08, 2012, 12:37:54 AM
Or perhaps I'll just play some of the other games I have and chalk it up to EA/Bioware Austin/Mythic whoever still sucking and not look back again for a while.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Hawkbit on December 08, 2012, 03:15:45 PM
Some of the choices they've made are just mind-boggling.  I had a hankering to play this, but couldn't because my security key was lost (2-step).  I had to call them to get it reset, which actually went smoothly.  However, the rep informed me that mobile 2-step is only available for subscribers, not f2p.  F2p have to buy a fob to get 2-step. 

Huh? 


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Zetor on December 09, 2012, 12:50:45 AM
So I read that the holostatues from the store / gambling boxes count as companions when you deploy them, enabling the use of heroic moment, legacy HM skills, and the two legacy skills that reduce damage taken + hurt the companion to heal you, even in raids - not sure about warzones. The thread's deleted by now, of course.

This is kinda  :uhrr: and  :drill: at the same time!


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ginaz on December 09, 2012, 04:46:38 PM
I used my coins to unlock a mailbox, repair droid and auction house terminal on my ship.  Applies to all characters.  Also got a few major xp bonus thingys for the sorc.  I'm leveling.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Tannhauser on December 09, 2012, 05:02:14 PM
Oh I didn't realize that was for all characters, have to do that.  I bought extra storage space for all my toons and bought a few cheap legacies.

My smuggler just arrived at Alderan.  I'm not in a rush to level up, really enjoying the smuggler storyline (more so than my old BH).  Got my crafting higher than my level and made Bowdaar a vibrosword that rapes faces.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Ginaz on January 01, 2013, 10:03:49 PM
Today is the first time since shortly after launch I've see a server listed as Full with a que and wait time.  All the other NA servers are Very Heavy.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Surlyboi on January 01, 2013, 10:42:58 PM
People still off for New Year's Day.


Title: Re: Not so good news about F2P
Post by: Tannhauser on January 02, 2013, 04:37:41 AM
Been very heavy last few days.  I have been kicked off a fair amount as well, not sure if connected.