X-Men: Days of Future Past

[Ghambit]

Liked the movie overall.  I think I agree with some here that First Class was more enjoyable, but only by a bit.  My only nerd-gripe was

The guy is the lord of magnetism.  Apparently you weren't paying attention in physics class and/or circuits 101.  Magnetism and Electricity go hand in hand; moreso if you're smart enough to physically manipulate the wiring/switching to your advantage.

Technically, Magneto can manipulate dataflow just as easily as lifting a car.

[Maven]

Quicksilver sequence was the best part of the entire movie. The movie did play fast and loose with its own rules. I noticed retconning of the end of The Wolverine (who had his metal claws back in the future).


I greatly enjoyed the film though, the ending, and how it feels like a capstone and finale on 14 years of X-Men. Onto the next phase.

[Surlyboi]

Liked the movie overall.  I think I agree with some here that First Class was more enjoyable, but only by a bit.  My only nerd-gripe was

The guy is the lord of magnetism.  Apparently you weren't paying attention in physics class and/or circuits 101.  Magnetism and Electricity go hand in hand; moreso if you're smart enough to physically manipulate the wiring/switching to your advantage.

Technically, Magneto can manipulate dataflow just as easily as lifting a car.

Well, that and he stole the plans and knew what to do with them anyway.

[SurfD]

Quicksilver sequence was the best part of the entire movie. The movie did play fast and loose with its own rules. I noticed retconning of the end of The Wolverine (who had his metal claws back in the future).

considering that I am 100% positive that the Asian mutant on the plane with Logan at the end of The Wolverine had his severed metal claws in a briefcase, it isnt too far of a stretch to simply go "hey, sometime between then and doomsday they found someone who could re-attach them.  I mean, if you can melt through them, you can surely "weld" them back together using the same principle.

[Threash]

Native American looking dude, didn't catch his name, what powers did he have?

[Tannhauser]

Warpath. A scout I guess.

[Nevermore]

Quicksilver sequence was the best part of the entire movie. The movie did play fast and loose with its own rules. I noticed retconning of the end of The Wolverine (who had his metal claws back in the future).

considering that I am 100% positive that the Asian mutant on the plane with Logan at the end of The Wolverine had his severed metal claws in a briefcase, it isnt too far of a stretch to simply go "hey, sometime between then and doomsday they found someone who could re-attach them.  I mean, if you can melt through them, you can surely "weld" them back together using the same principle.

Nope.  In the alternate ending included on the DVD, Logan opens the briefcase and inside is his goofy yellow costume.

[Merusk]

Native American looking dude, didn't catch his name, what powers did he have?

Warpath. Strength and speed. Though the movie gave him some sort of scouting because : Native American.  :awesomeforreal:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warpath_(comics)

[Abagadro]

From your broken link (you left out a closing parentheses):

Superhuman strength, speed, stamina, agility, reflexes, durability, and senses

He just saw really far to see the incoming sentinels.

[MournelitheCalix]

Velorath, there was more to it then that...

[SurfD]

Quicksilver sequence was the best part of the entire movie. The movie did play fast and loose with its own rules. I noticed retconning of the end of The Wolverine (who had his metal claws back in the future).

considering that I am 100% positive that the Asian mutant on the plane with Logan at the end of The Wolverine had his severed metal claws in a briefcase, it isnt too far of a stretch to simply go "hey, sometime between then and doomsday they found someone who could re-attach them.  I mean, if you can melt through them, you can surely "weld" them back together using the same principle.

Nope.  In the alternate ending included on the DVD, Logan opens the briefcase and inside is his goofy yellow costume.

Hmm, I could have sworn that in the cinema version someone collected the severed claws.  Almost positive I remember seeing them somewhere at the end after everything had been resolved.

[Threash]

Bit silly to fuzz over the claws instead of the fact that sentinels were invented in the 70s and should've been in all movies imo :P.  I was surprised at how brutal the deaths of the future x-men were, i guess you can go all out when you know its not gonna count.

[jgsugden]

Sentinels are shown in X-men 3 in a Danger Room scenario. 

I think the idea was that in the original continuity, the Sentinels were designed and introduced in the 70s, but were ineffective.  They were dropped back on the drafting table, but without Trask to guide the effort, it took them 50 years to get the technology right to make the Sentinel versions we saw in the future.  A bit weak, but it worked enough for me.

[Merusk]

Bit silly to fuzz over the claws instead of the fact that sentinels were invented in the 70s and should've been in all movies imo :P.  I was surprised at how brutal the deaths of the future x-men were, i guess you can go all out when you know its not gonna count.

The bigger continuity error would be Mystique being captured and vivisected to produce the super sentinels (Stryker was not going to let her live any more than Angel, Azazel and Banshee) but was still in the first 3 movies.

[Ironwood]

By the sound of it, it's quite clear we're dealing with a diverging and intersecting alternate timeline, so it's kinda pointless to worry about it.

Par for the course for X-Men, after all.

[Maven]

Marvel movies have this way of not being bound by historical facts found in previous iterations. It's like whatever the current / latest movie is the status quo, and all previous movies are susceptible to revision to fit the current movie's reality.

[Khaldun]

Here's another one, by the way.

Professor X in the 1970s: drug addict and drunk, no powers, being nursemaided by Beast.

Mutants being rounded up and experimented on. For some reason, Magneto not being experimented on despite being in captivity.

Mystique fightin' the power. Going to kill Trask. Supposedly ends up vivisected and the Sentinels come into being.

Which leads somehow to what? Allegedly X-Men 1, 2, 3 as we saw them? Folks are already pointing out how that doesn't make that much sense unless the 70s Sentinels get smeared all over by mutants of some kind and Trask Industries creeps away to keep experimenting on Mystique's DNA until they get it right.

So ok then: in the 'original' timeline, who showed up to fight the 1970s Sentinels? And how did Professor X stop being a drunk and addict and decide to reform the school considering that it took Wolverine's intervention due to time travel to get him to do it this time?

[Nevermore]

Counterpoints:

Mutants were being rounded up by unofficially by Trask, not by the government itself.  That kept Magneto out of reach, since he was being held by the government.

The 1970s sentinels were never activated in the original timeline.  Trask was dead and there was no big public mutant fight, so Nixon had no motivation to circumvent Congress and activate them.

Mystique was captured but where was it said she was killed and vivisected?  I assume it was Stryker who carried on for Trask, but it seems that Trask Industries itself went kaput without Trask.  Stryker got the samples from Mystique but she's awfully hard to hold so she clearly escaped before she was killed.

Obviously Xavier was able to get himself out of his funk eventually on his own, it just took much longer in the original timeline.  Wolverine had to speed things up because Mystique had to be stopped right then, not however many years later it took for Xavier to clean himself up.

The continuity in the X-Men movies has been pretty bad, but in this particular movie its not that hard to rationalize the inconsistencies.  It makes a lot more sense than a high school aged Cyclops showing up in Origins which is something like 10 to 20 years before the first X-Men movie, where he's not much older.

[Threash]

The 1970s sentinels were never activated in the original timeline.  Trask was dead and there was no big public mutant fight, so Nixon had no motivation to circumvent Congress and activate them.

Uh, the whole point of time traveling to stop the murder was because killing Trask led to the aproval of the sentinel project.  And the sentinels were already built at that point.

Mystique was captured but where was it said she was killed and vivisected?  I assume it was Stryker who carried on for Trask, but it seems that Trask Industries itself went kaput without Trask.  Stryker got the samples from Mystique but she's awfully hard to hold so she clearly escaped before she was killed.

The exact words were tortured and experimented on, people just assumed killed and vivisected because that's what happened to the other mutants.

[Nevermore]

The 1970s sentinels were never activated in the original timeline.  Trask was dead and there was no big public mutant fight, so Nixon had no motivation to circumvent Congress and activate them.

Uh, the whole point of time traveling to stop the murder was because killing Trask led to the aproval of the sentinel project.  And the sentinels were already built at that point.

It lead to the super sentinels being built in their future timeline, but nothing was said about those original sentinels being activated back in the 70s.

[Merusk]

The exact words were tortured and experimented on, people just assumed killed and vivisected because that's what happened to the other mutants.

The other part leading to that conclusion was what Trask said to Stryker: "I need Tissue, marrow and organs."

It's feasible to get those while not killing the subject, but that wasn't where they were trying to lead you after her discovery of the Dead Mutant files.

[Threash]

The exact words were tortured and experimented on, people just assumed killed and vivisected because that's what happened to the other mutants.

The other part leading to that conclusion was what Trask said to Stryker: "I need Tissue, marrow and organs."

It's feasible to get those while not killing the subject, but that wasn't where they were trying to lead you after her discovery of the Dead Mutant files.

Right, but the first quote came from the future when they would've said killed and vivisected if that's what had happened, but somehow it didn't.  Shrug, maybe they needed her alive to see how the power worked?

[Nevermore]

The exact words were tortured and experimented on, people just assumed killed and vivisected because that's what happened to the other mutants.

The other part leading to that conclusion was what Trask said to Stryker: "I need Tissue, marrow and organs."

It's feasible to get those while not killing the subject, but that wasn't where they were trying to lead you after her discovery of the Dead Mutant files.

Just because he said he needed it doesn't mean he ended up getting it before she escaped.  Maybe that's why it took so long to make the super sentinels, because Trask wasn't able to get all the samples he wanted.

[jgsugden]

I believe they were intentionally vague to allow them to ignore some issues.  However, a few things were just odd.

Why was Xavier bald, walking and using his powers during the end of X-Men Origins: Wolverine, which ended around 1981, when DoFP established he had a full head of hair, and could either walk or use powers in 1973?  Maybe they found a balnce in the medication.... or he was a projection in 1981.... or something.

X-Men Origins: Wolverine has Wolverine in the military in 1975 with his brother (who he has fought beside for about a century), but in 1973 he wakes up with a bimbo in DoFP and there is no reference to the brother.  Maybe they were on a break? 

In 1973, Stryker is portrayed by a 28 year old actor, but the 1975 version the character is portayed by a 47 year old.  Clearly, 1974 was a hard year for Willy Stryker.

[Maven]

Trask being alive to say that comment was already a timeline alteration. There is no evidence (but it doesn't mean it isn't there) that anyone else in his research organization would go to such lengths to dissect Mystique. When he was dead, there was a will to take the Sentinel program to its conclusion, but his presence and that level of access to her body could hyper-accelerate the development of the Sentinel technology, which seemed the point of Xavier's "an even darker future." line.

It probably took 50 years under the normal timeline because all they had to work with were more humane methods of acquiring samples -- blood, tissue, etc -- that would leave Mystique alive. Trask wanted to gut her and use every part of the body -- in the new timeline without further intervention, Mystique was probably kept in captivity, tortured, and experimented on for years on Trask's sadistic research methods. Trask even says "this could advance us years, decades!"

[Merusk]

At this point I think the entire discussion just underscores why Marvel wanted to keep things in house.  We've found so many wtf moments (hey. Why did future Xavier still look like Patrick Stewart. His body was destroyed in x3) because Fox only cares about the revenue not the properties of wolverine and x-men.   Consistency and coherency are for dorks.

[Margalis]

If you think this stuff is bad try reading some X-Men comics. 

[Khaldun]

For sure. A thousand times worse in these respects, especially once you get into the 1990s.

Tons of incomprehensible time travel stories and characters whose basic premise requires reciting a ten-minute background to even begin to understand. (The movie handles Bishop very elegantly in this regard...)

Professor X's mind was transplanted at least once out of his Brood-infected body into a cloned body, I think. He walks and doesn't walk for all sorts of reasons.

Pouches. Tons of pouches. And big guns.

Tons of weird Chris Claremont fetish stuff about mind control and body-swapping and dominatrixes.

etc.

[Merusk]

Fortunately I stopped reading comics around 1991. 

[Margalis]

Fortunately I stopped reading comics around 1991. 

You picked a good time.

I listen to a podcast called "Rachel and Miles X-plain the X-men." At the start of every podcast they do a bit where they talk about some character or event, and it just gets crazier and crazier, until it ends with "WHAT IS GOING ON???"

It's worth listening to just for those opening bits. The X-Men as a whole make zero fucking sense. There are like 7 different alternate timelines that all factor in in major ways. Not just fun one-off stories that can get brought back once every 5 years as a lark, but actually important to the story as a whole.

[Khaldun]

http://comicsalliance.com/cable-comics-marvel-history/

Just one of many characters whose X-Men history is so fucking impossible to understand that you'd be better off doing the math for superstring symmetry with an abacus. Less frustrating.

[Threash]

Was Emma Frost mentioned at all? i thought i heard "Emma" when Magneto was throwing the dead mutants in Charles face but not 100% sure. She wasn't one of the mutants on the file Mystique found at least.

[Margalis]

That doesn't even mention that not only is Nate Summers Cable but in a different timeline he is "Nate Grey", "X-Man", an alternate timeline version of Cable - who is already from a timeline that due to time travel became alternate itself!

[Ironwood]

Yeah, Cable is just Uber Retarded.  He's like a lesson in How Not To.

[Nevermore]

Was Emma Frost mentioned at all? i thought i heard "Emma" when Magneto was throwing the dead mutants in Charles face but not 100% sure. She wasn't one of the mutants on the file Mystique found at least.

I think he did mention her as one of the dead mutants, yeah.