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Author Topic: Bungie's Destiny  (Read 393938 times)
Paelos
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Reply #70 on: May 06, 2014, 07:21:34 AM

No you're saying it right.

They are banking on a large scale shooter game for consoles only. It will make plenty of money, but putting an MMO on consoles and ignoring the PC Shooter market is a waste.

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Reply #71 on: May 06, 2014, 07:29:47 AM

With today's modern-day consoles basically being shitty PCs, can I at least play this with keyboard/mouse?
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Reply #72 on: May 06, 2014, 07:58:44 AM

There will be PvP in this so it is not a stand-alone PvE game.

And the sad reality is, PC gaming has been on the way out for a few years now and the market is firmly residing in consoles. I don't approve, but that is the way of the world and Bliz/Activ knows this. I just don't think the PC market for shooters now is big enough to justify dual development. That is not to say FPS does badly on the PC, but how big is that market and it is growing or declining? Anecdotal I know, but most of the guys I played AA:Online and then Planetside with moved to consoles shortly after we were done with Battlefield. They use tablets for internet use and consoles for gaming in the livingroom now rather than tied to the desk in the corner. I try to adjust my top hat and monocle as I ridicule their gaming platform choices, but there is mob rule now. Aging gamers adjusting the gaming environments and getting their kids into gaming based on their current platform use rather than the 'this is how we did shit back in my day.'

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Reply #73 on: May 06, 2014, 09:19:27 AM

$500 million for a console shooter? If it isn't subscription-based, that's a fucking idiotic amount of money to spend. I think back to the stories from last year about Tomb Raider, Hitman: Absolution and Sleeping Dogs being considered failures (and leading to the ouster of a publisher's CEO) for ONLY selling 3-6 million each or something. And those games couldn't have had budgets higher than $100-$150 million, right? You might as well have burned that money because you will NEVER make it back. 10 million copies sold x $60/copy = $600 million in revenue except that half of that revenue goes to the retailers. So you'd need to sell in excess of 15-20 million copies to break even as a publisher.

THAT'S... INSANE.

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Reply #74 on: May 06, 2014, 09:35:58 AM

And the sad reality is, PC gaming has been on the way out for a few years now

I've been hearing this for over a decade.  Still hasn't happened.  In fact, PC gaming has only become more robust.

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Reply #75 on: May 06, 2014, 09:47:36 AM

From what I've been reading over the last year or so the pendulum has started to swing back the other way and PC gaming spending is currently outstripping console spending. This may change in the wake of PS4/Xbone releases of course but the growth of MOBAs in particular has fuelled a steady increase of the popularity of the PC for gaming.

There's a brief analysis here.

That said however, I totally understand that developing for consoles is much easier than for PCs because of the uniform hardware, so it never really surprises me when a developer heads for consoles first.

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Reply #76 on: May 06, 2014, 10:25:41 AM

Considering that with the Xbone and PS4 having x86 architectures with the bone using probably some mutant version of DirectX and the other using I think OpenGL, the difference between a PC and Console version of a next-gen only game is just some UI/control changes and a compiler flag. If anything there'll be more multiplatform titles hitting the PC.

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Paelos
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Reply #77 on: May 06, 2014, 10:34:34 AM

And the sad reality is, PC gaming has been on the way out for a few years now

I've been hearing this for over a decade.  Still hasn't happened.  In fact, PC gaming has only become more robust.

Yeah PC gaming is actually starting to claw back market share with things like Steam. The ability to buy/download/play games and discount sales beat many of the console deals.

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Reply #78 on: May 06, 2014, 10:42:16 AM

Yeah PC gaming is actually starting to claw back market share with things like Steam. The ability to buy/download/play games and discount sales beat many all of the console deals.

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Reply #79 on: May 06, 2014, 11:25:29 AM

If/When the steambox becomes a thing, is it still PC gaming or is it a console?

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Reply #80 on: May 06, 2014, 12:42:11 PM

You're asking what would happen if Jesus and Mohammed had a baby.

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Reply #81 on: May 06, 2014, 01:24:34 PM

If/When the steambox becomes a thing, is it still PC gaming or is it a console?

Interesting question. By my own standards, it's firmly a console.

But my standards are not those of others, and revolve more around where and when I can play (EDIT: and primary interface peripheral) versus openness and flexibility of hardware.

Nothing in this post represents the views of my current or previous employers.

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Reply #82 on: May 06, 2014, 02:02:54 PM

There will be PvP in this so it is not a stand-alone PvE game.

And the sad reality is, PC gaming has been on the way out for a few years now and the market is firmly residing in consoles.

Not really, no? The biggest competitive shooter in the world right now is CSGO, which barely has a console presence.
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Reply #83 on: May 06, 2014, 02:43:02 PM

Big budget game but console only?

Maybe that made sense 5-10 years ago.

Does PS3/4 & XBOX 360/One have that much market saturation?

Everybody has a PC (or Mac/Linux).

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Reply #84 on: May 06, 2014, 02:57:46 PM

10 million copies sold x $60/copy = $600 million in revenue except that half of that revenue goes to the retailers. So you'd need to sell in excess of 15-20 million copies to break even as a publisher.

THAT'S... INSANE.
I hate to be that guy, but that is bullshit and I wish I knew where people got this "half revenue to retailers" fiction. It's not true now, and wasn't true in 2002 when I had my first shitty retail job selling video games. Retailers make 5-10% on a new video game sale; why do you think they're all chasing used sales?

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Reply #85 on: May 06, 2014, 03:22:58 PM

There will be PvP in this so it is not a stand-alone PvE game.

And the sad reality is, PC gaming has been on the way out for a few years now and the market is firmly residing in consoles.

Not really, no? The biggest competitive shooter in the world right now is CSGO, which barely has a console presence.

If you want to split hairs you can throw any adjective in front and get where you are going. I doubt Destiny is going for the competition market. I am referring to the hot seller FPS games for households, and I completely understand the audience here is skewed toward a certain genre and playstyle which is in opposition to my offline social networks which I concede again is anecdotal references. However, most of these guys were hardcore PC forever thugs until life caught up to them and now everything is centered in the living room.

And as for everyone having a PC. This is probably accurate, but I can't believe more than half of those are capable of playing a AAA title FPS without some hangup, whether that be an integrated vid card, lack of RAM, outdated processor, or horrific network issues (which this would affect both PC and consoles for online play). Tablets and netbook/chromebooks are spreading much more than PCs. Hell, wasn't it mentioned in another thread about the difficulty finding prebuilt machines now? Steam is salvaging PC gaming, but only for those diehard gamers that are not a typical breed.

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Reply #86 on: May 06, 2014, 04:38:24 PM

Not making this up.

But neither is it about AAA shooters  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

In general, I feel PCs remain strong for gaming because they're the platform to experiment on. Minecraft would not be the force of nature it is if it was shipped first on a disc for an X360. Try and imagine either hardware provider even understanding how a MOBA or MMO monetizes in their worldview. Heck, we imported the f2p business model from certain Eastern markets that are entirely about PC games played in cafes, which then jumped to social networks which would never have launched on walled gardens like consoles much less spawned a brand new game platform.

As a PC gamer, I've watched the decline of core AAA PC games over the least two console cycles. But PC gaming in general hasn't died.

Yes, PC AAA gaming is a hobbiest market. The masses aren't buying gaming rigs, and the last computer they bought was probably a $500 laptop that can likely handle something done in Unity. But those kind of masses also moved on from consoles and handheld consoles to smartphones and tablets.

And for the kind of PC games making all the monies, you don't need 8 cores.
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Reply #87 on: May 06, 2014, 10:20:10 PM

If you want to split hairs you can throw any adjective in front and get where you are going. I doubt Destiny is going for the competition market.

If it's a non-competitive, fuck-around-as-you-like FPS, who gives a shit what they do?
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Reply #88 on: May 07, 2014, 08:26:42 AM

500 million earth dollars.

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Reply #89 on: May 07, 2014, 09:53:15 AM

10 million copies sold x $60/copy = $600 million in revenue except that half of that revenue goes to the retailers. So you'd need to sell in excess of 15-20 million copies to break even as a publisher.

THAT'S... INSANE.
I hate to be that guy, but that is bullshit and I wish I knew where people got this "half revenue to retailers" fiction. It's not true now, and wasn't true in 2002 when I had my first shitty retail job selling video games. Retailers make 5-10% on a new video game sale; why do you think they're all chasing used sales?

Unless the video game market has suddenly become VASTLY different to the book market, the distribution chain pays 40-50% of the total retail price to the publisher to deliver the goods to the retailers. The retailers only make the 5-10%, but that other chunk of money ain't going to the publishers unless they've somehow magically made direct carry deals with all the retailers. So yes, I misspoke in that it wasn't retailers getting that 50%, it was the distribution chain. Which doesn't change my point or the numbers in my point much at all. This will need to sell a shiton of copies to break even.

Is the game going to be subscription-based?

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Reply #90 on: May 07, 2014, 10:08:39 AM

I assume Activision is going with the sales models that they understand and that have been working for them.

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Reply #91 on: May 07, 2014, 10:59:45 AM

Holding a death vigil for PC gaming gets a little tiring when you've been doing it for a decade and everyone's run out of candles
Paelos
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Reply #92 on: May 07, 2014, 11:03:08 AM

Holding a death vigil for PC gaming gets a little tiring when you've been doing it for a decade and everyone's run out of candles

It got better!

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Reply #93 on: May 07, 2014, 11:20:08 AM

And the sad reality is, PC gaming has been on the way out for a few years now

I've been hearing this for over a decade.  Still hasn't happened.  In fact, PC gaming has only become more robust.

TWO decades.

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Reply #94 on: May 07, 2014, 12:40:01 PM

PC Gaming is still alive because it did what I've said all these years - Embrace the niche, bitches.

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Reply #95 on: May 07, 2014, 12:41:27 PM

PC Gaming is still alive because it did what I've said all these years - Embrace the niche, bitches.

I do love a tight niche.

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Reply #96 on: May 07, 2014, 07:29:41 PM

PC Gaming is still alive because it did what I've said all these years - Embrace the niche, bitches.

I do love a tight niche.

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Reply #97 on: May 08, 2014, 01:48:15 AM

I read about the 500 million on IGN:

Quote
Seeing as Activision and Bungie jointly hope the title will have a ten-year lifespan, the hope is the shared-world shooter becomes a massive franchise that should easily manage to recoup the initial investment. Between 15 and 16 million copies of the $60 game would likely have to be bought in order for this to happen, according to analysts. It's a big ask for an unproven franchise but, thankfully, there's some serious pedigree behind it.

So are they figuring they'll have ten years to recoup costs on the project? World of Warcraft hasn't even been out ten years. The games with that level of longevity are few and far between, and I think precisely zero are on consoles with the exception of (of course) Halo.

I can't imagine their financial strategy involves only the box price.
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Reply #98 on: May 08, 2014, 01:14:58 PM

The Reuters article that Miasma linked talked about GTA5 moving 32 million units.  That's their benchmark.  Will it turn out as well, as they're hoping?  Doubt it.  But it's interesting to see Activision singing "We've got the GTA-killer" after watching everyone else's WoW-killers stumble.

Call of Duty is slowing down.  They need a new big franchise, and going all-in with the team that created Halo isn't the worst idea in the world.  If the game is solid enough, and the marketing catches, they MIGHT get close to what they want.

But those are mighty big IFs.

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Reply #99 on: May 08, 2014, 01:40:53 PM

Let's be clear on this. Were this project being released on PC, I'd be 100% behind the move. It's the fact they are actively ignoring that market in favor of consoles that seems ridiculous. Even all the CoD games came out on PC.

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Reply #100 on: May 08, 2014, 01:54:16 PM

I'm not exactly sure what their reasoning is behind the no-PC decision.  They basically have to build it for PCs to even test it for consoles; why not just bring it over?  Are they concerned about the PC hack issues?  Weird decision.
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Reply #101 on: May 08, 2014, 03:26:34 PM

I'm not exactly sure what their reasoning is behind the no-PC decision.  They basically have to build it for PCs to even test it for consoles; why not just bring it over?  Are they concerned about the PC hack issues?  Weird decision.

Avoids developing the game on alternate graphic and processor setups would be my guess. They never have to hear how little Johnny can't play it on grandma's Pentium machine running xp. Just a guess though.

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Reply #102 on: May 08, 2014, 04:31:24 PM

That.

Tuned in, immediately get to watch cringey Ubisoft talking head offering her deepest sympathies to the families impacted by the Orlando shooting while flanked by a man in a giraffe suit and some sort of "horrifically garish neon costumes through the ages" exhibit or something.  We need to stop this fucking planet right now and sort some shit out. -Kail
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Reply #103 on: May 08, 2014, 04:39:00 PM

Assuming these numbers are good:

I picked a random CoD title (MW3 in this case) and tried to find sales figures for it.

PC: ~1.6 million
Xbox: ~14.2 million
PS3: ~12.8 million
Wii: ~0.7 million

So, that might have something to do with why they're not bothering with a PC version. I couldn't tell you how much extra money it costs to make a PC version, but if it's more than about 5% of their total budget it might not make a lot of sense to do it, financially.

Also: LOL Wii

I am not saying WOE PC GAMING IS DEAD but consoley stuff like this is a pretty questionable investment for the studios it seems like.

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Reply #104 on: May 08, 2014, 05:00:19 PM

That's at least partially because the PC base has better shooters available for less money, though. Why pay $60 for small map, small # of players, autoaiming cover shooter when you can get some variety of CS for $10, or Warframe/PS2/TF2/etc. for free?

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