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Author Topic: 0x10C (Notch makes Eve, but better)  (Read 55108 times)
schild
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on: April 03, 2012, 05:53:37 PM

http://0x10c.com/

Ok, sign me the fuck up.  DRILLING AND MANLINESS
Malakili
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Reply #1 on: April 03, 2012, 06:07:32 PM

Shut up and take my money.
Ingmar
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Reply #2 on: April 03, 2012, 06:10:34 PM

This has glorious mess written all over it.  Heart

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Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
NiX
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Reply #3 on: April 03, 2012, 06:38:09 PM

What won't this man do to take more of your life away?
Xilren's Twin
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Reply #4 on: April 03, 2012, 06:39:34 PM

So it's a retro yet futuristic space game where you have to manage a 16 bit virtual computer whilst playing 4x?
Memory management for the win!
Perhaps it will have ascii graphics too...

Notch has made believers out of a ton of people; this will be very interesting to watch.  He certainly dreams big.

"..but I'm by no means normal." - Schild
Surlyboi
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eat a bag of dicks


Reply #5 on: April 03, 2012, 07:39:06 PM

I'm dubious. I kinda like the concept, but I'll wait to see what the results are.

Tuned in, immediately get to watch cringey Ubisoft talking head offering her deepest sympathies to the families impacted by the Orlando shooting while flanked by a man in a giraffe suit and some sort of "horrifically garish neon costumes through the ages" exhibit or something.  We need to stop this fucking planet right now and sort some shit out. -Kail
Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #6 on: April 03, 2012, 09:18:10 PM

It bears repeating.


~a horrific, dark simulacrum that glares balefully at us, with evil intent.
Abelian75
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Reply #7 on: April 03, 2012, 09:38:56 PM

Wow.  This is weird, and I'm excited.  I want to write retro software in space.  Yes please.

Edit:  It occurs to me this is essentially taking the mod-writing community of something like WoW and making it an explicit part of the game world, which is a totally badass idea.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2012, 09:42:16 PM by Abelian75 »
Ingmar
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Reply #8 on: April 03, 2012, 09:41:18 PM

If actually programming your 16 bit computer is required then I think the audience may be a little narrow. Hopefully there is room to be a dumb dude with a gun who works for the crazy programmer dudes.

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Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Severian
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Reply #9 on: April 03, 2012, 09:44:00 PM

He better deliver on the promised duct tape.  angry
Abelian75
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Reply #10 on: April 03, 2012, 09:45:30 PM

If actually programming your 16 bit computer is required then I think the audience may be a little narrow. Hopefully there is room to be a dumb dude with a gun who works for the crazy programmer dudes.

I suspect the idea is that people will distribute the software they write for the in-game computer to other players.  Like I theorized in my edit above, basically a modding community that is actually a part of the game fiction.  I absolutely love that idea.
Kitsune
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Reply #11 on: April 03, 2012, 10:50:14 PM

Consider the possibility of distributing backdoors through 'generous public software' and overriding your enemy's fleet computers at a crucial moment.
Furiously
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Reply #12 on: April 04, 2012, 01:21:43 AM

Consider the possibility of distributing backdoors through 'generous public software' and overriding your enemy's fleet computers at a crucial moment.

Or your own fleet if you are goonfleet!

Fordel
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Reply #13 on: April 04, 2012, 01:28:13 AM

I can barely make Redstone work in MC, I don't think I am the target audience for this game.  why so serious?

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Margalis
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Reply #14 on: April 04, 2012, 01:59:45 AM

If actually programming your 16 bit computer is required then I think the audience may be a little narrow.

If there is some sort of understatement of the year award I'm pretty sure you just won it.

vampirehipi23: I would enjoy a book written by a monkey and turned into a movie rather than this.
Quinton
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Reply #15 on: April 04, 2012, 02:12:04 AM

I'd hope that the game would provide some in-game market for software modules for your ship computer and some basic modules available.  Let the folks not into hacking on virtual machines enjoy it at a different level, and create a "crafting" market where the crafters actually create something...

Actually, if the cpu simulation is run serverside instead of clientside (this may not be entirely practical), one could imagine a world where you can't trivially recreate player created assets by ripping textures, etc (a la second life). 

Also, all kinds of potential meta-gaming insanity.

It really depends a lot on how he implements things, and it could be a horrible mess, but I love the core concept and am interested to see where he takes it.
Yoru
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Reply #16 on: April 04, 2012, 02:12:10 AM

I need new pants.
Quinton
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Reply #17 on: April 04, 2012, 04:27:34 AM

I can barely make Redstone work in MC, I don't think I am the target audience for this game.  why so serious?

This sort of thing is so much better than redstone I don't even have words -- I fully expect we'll see a pile of tools and languages targeting this thing if the game is at all interesting.  Hell, I just wasted an hour or so throwing together a quick C implementation of his virtual CPU... I don't even know why... probably because I like VM hacking and it looked kinda cute.... https://github.com/swetland/dcpu16
Nija
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Reply #18 on: April 04, 2012, 06:14:34 AM

I wouldn't really say this is him making Eve. That will scare a bunch of people away. Who needs another spreadsheet product?


He's said for years that he wants to do a modern Elite, but done correctly. This is it.
schild
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Reply #19 on: April 04, 2012, 06:53:38 AM

What he says he's making and what it is going to turn into are two very different things.

He wants to make Elite, sure.

He's making Eve.
Quinton
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Reply #20 on: April 04, 2012, 07:02:16 AM

Nah, I doubt this ends up being EVE.   If he takes it all the way it ends up being a programming game, smells more like corewars or the like.  EVE really has no programming / scripting / customization elements at all.  Totally different beast from that standpoint.

Questions I have are along the lines of:
- does he provide a more accessible "higher level" programming interface (graphical building blocks, etc)
- is he forced to rethink things around the accessibility of the programming interface (if it really is hooked into all ship control and ships are autonomous even when your offline, seems like there'd be some heavy advantage to people who can customize their "AI")
- is it actually feasible (cost-wise) to run an open world of continuous physics/cpu emulation for all participants forever?
shiznitz
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Reply #21 on: April 04, 2012, 07:03:43 AM

Sounds like a dream written down.  Good luck to him.  I hope it works.

I have never played WoW.
schild
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Reply #22 on: April 04, 2012, 07:05:45 AM

Nah, I doubt this ends up being EVE.   If he takes it all the way it ends up being a programming game, smells more like corewars or the like.  EVE really has no programming / scripting / customization elements at all.  Totally different beast from that standpoint.

Questions I have are along the lines of:
- does he provide a more accessible "higher level" programming interface (graphical building blocks, etc)
- is he forced to rethink things around the accessibility of the programming interface (if it really is hooked into all ship control and ships are autonomous even when your offline, seems like there'd be some heavy advantage to people who can customize their "AI")
- is it actually feasible (cost-wise) to run an open world of continuous physics/cpu emulation for all participants forever?

You are focusing way too much on the programming. How much of the Minecraft Audience actually sits around and dicks with mechanics? 0.1%? Even that seems high.
Quinton
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Reply #23 on: April 04, 2012, 07:13:01 AM

You are focusing way too much on the programming. How much of the Minecraft Audience actually sits around and dicks with mechanics? 0.1%? Even that seems high.

Certainly possible (that I'm over-focused on this), given it's a hobby horse of mine (user-programmable/scripted game content).  I also think that it's quite possible it could get massively scaled back in favor of making things more accessible / fun / etc. (for crazy people that think writing compilers is not fun! can you imagine?!) ^^
Malakili
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Reply #24 on: April 04, 2012, 07:25:06 AM

Nah, I doubt this ends up being EVE.   If he takes it all the way it ends up being a programming game, smells more like corewars or the like.  EVE really has no programming / scripting / customization elements at all.  Totally different beast from that standpoint.

Questions I have are along the lines of:
- does he provide a more accessible "higher level" programming interface (graphical building blocks, etc)
- is he forced to rethink things around the accessibility of the programming interface (if it really is hooked into all ship control and ships are autonomous even when your offline, seems like there'd be some heavy advantage to people who can customize their "AI")
- is it actually feasible (cost-wise) to run an open world of continuous physics/cpu emulation for all participants forever?

You are focusing way too much on the programming. How much of the Minecraft Audience actually sits around and dicks with mechanics? 0.1%? Even that seems high.

My guess is that this is right.  I'm anticipating that it'll be on the order of red stone circuitry.  Amazing things possible if you spend time and have a good real-life understanding of how circuitry works, relatively simple things can be done with basic knowledge, and the game can be enjoyed without even knowing the mechanic exists.
Ghambit
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Reply #25 on: April 04, 2012, 07:27:01 AM

I assume his 'multiverse' idea is something akin to Ryzom?  That is, you can pop in/out of other people's game worlds, each of which is procedural-generated (hopefully each a random universe).  Feels like multiversal Starflight with manual engineering.
DCPU-16 specification

To be clear, this is the game he's always wanted to make yes?  Minecraft was his interpretation of Wurm, having worked on the title.

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Quinton
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Reply #26 on: April 04, 2012, 07:36:14 AM

The problem with redstone logic is that the "giant electronic gates" model of "programming" is at best a novelty.  It's way too large, arcane, and inconvenient to do much more than the most trivial of things.  An actual little 16bit VM provides massively more flexibility as far as an automation/customization interface goes.  And I predict it will also be massively more accessible -- it's something you can build higher level abstractions on top of that would likely appeal to a much wider chunk of the userbase.
schild
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Reply #27 on: April 04, 2012, 07:57:28 AM

Unfortunately a wider chunk of .1% is like, .15%.

Seriously, the beardy parts of Notch's brain don't appeal to the VAST majority of gamers. Minecraft succeeded because it was a fantastic lego set on an open world. This, if it succeeds, will have absolutely nothing to do with the beardy bits and I hope he doesn't waste a goddamn time of pre-beta dev work on such things.
Kitsune
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Reply #28 on: April 04, 2012, 08:06:23 AM

Question is, how's he gonna pull off having a virtualized OS for each player on a server?  I'd expect the demands of simulating a few hundred ship computers to be a bit of a strain on a server.
Abelian75
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Reply #29 on: April 04, 2012, 08:11:16 AM

Question is, how's he gonna pull off having a virtualized OS for each player on a server?  I'd expect the demands of simulating a few hundred ship computers to be a bit of a strain on a server.

Hence the monthly fee, presumably.

God, I am fucking excited for this.  And yeah, I agree that the programming aspect is probably being overestimated in terms of the actual game experience for 99.9% of the playerbase.  But I think it is a great idea.  You can have a thriving mod community/metagame with only a tiny fraction of the playerbase actually writing mods.  You can still brainstorm ideas for new ways to have the ship computer manage combat or mining or whateverthehell without having to know how to make it happen.

Plus, yeah, presumably the actual game part of the game will have nothing to do with programming (or even the computer as anything other than another tool on your ship).

Edit:  And man, you'd better believe I'd love to see Elite ported to that in-game computer.  Hell, I'd do it myself.  (But nah, probably someone insane is already actively getting started on this :)
« Last Edit: April 04, 2012, 08:29:29 AM by Abelian75 »
K9
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Reply #30 on: April 04, 2012, 08:19:28 AM

I'm not sure I get what's going on

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tmp
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Reply #31 on: April 04, 2012, 08:22:43 AM

He better deliver on the promised duct tape.  angry
He's already removed "ending that makes sense" and "waist high walls" from the list of promised features. :/

edit: regarding emulation efficiency, there's a recent mention from him to the effect

Quote
Hah! I just emulated 2000 DCPUs simultanously at less than 50% CPU load on my desktop computer! I like!
« Last Edit: April 04, 2012, 08:31:29 AM by tmp »
Thrawn
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Reply #32 on: April 04, 2012, 08:35:59 AM

I'm not sure I get what's going on

You're not alone, don't worry.

I'm a big Eve fan and my degree is in programming and I can't find the huge appeal in this yet.  I can see potential, but nothing solid yet to get excited about.

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Reply #33 on: April 04, 2012, 08:44:20 AM

Whatever happened to scrolls anyway?

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Reply #34 on: April 04, 2012, 08:45:47 AM

Different team.

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