Patch 1.2 is out.

[Ingmar]

I am pretty sure the intention is to do that, they just tuned it badly.

[FieryBalrog]

Content should be graded. Normal mode for "most people will see the content / PUGable", Hard mode for the organised raiding guilds and achievements for the elitists.

I don't even get why designers can still get this wrong.

Because they are all elitists deep down and get wildly offended when their "buddies" call them out for their content being too "easy."

As if people stopped complaining about how difficult heroic Cata 5 mans were.

[Paelos]

You emphasized the wrong part. Heroic 5 mans

[Raknor]

Did I miss somewhere in the patch notes that the mounts don't drop from HM 8 mans any longer?  Was a bit of a surprise last night when we ran KP real quick for a mount and it wasn't there.

Also no Blackhole comms.  Is it only for Nightmare mode?

[amiable]

You emphasized the wrong part. Heroic 5 mans

I really didn't have a problem with making 5 man heroics dick-punchingly difficult.  But if you are going to do that you are sort of obligated to put the gear on par with the raid gear.  maybe diffrentiate the sets by having a dungeon set with different set boni but the same overall stat distribution.  Requiring folks to overgear a dungeon just to have a reasonable chance to complete is moronic.

Someone will point out "Well then no one will ever raid!!!!"    

1.  So what does that tell you about your raid game?
2.  Why do raiders even care?
3.  Peoiple will raid if raid gear looks cool, give cheevos or titles, or offer special mounts.  People love that crap.

[Paelos]

1.  So what does that tell you about your raid game?
2.  Why do raiders even care?
3.  Peoiple will raid if raid gear looks cool, give cheevos or titles, or offer special mounts.  People love that crap.

I'll field those questions!

1 - It usually tells you what it always tells you about MMO gamers, they follow the path of least resistence. Given a choice, nobody wants to assemble large groups because people don't have large groups of actual friends in the game.
2 - The high-end raiders don't care. They will do what they do for the challenge of beating each other, faster. The pretender raiders are the ones that bitch and whine because they have a disproportionate amount of self-worth tied to being special in a game.
3 - Absolutely. Titles, pets, mounts, and cosmetics should be the rewards for achievements at the highest levels, not stats.

[Fabricated]

Did I miss somewhere in the patch notes that the mounts don't drop from HM 8 mans any longer?  Was a bit of a surprise last night when we ran KP real quick for a mount and it wasn't there.

Also no Blackhole comms.  Is it only for Nightmare mode?

I don't know 100% but the only old content I think Black Hole Comms drop from is Nightmare Karagga's Palace.

[caladein]

Did I miss somewhere in the patch notes that the mounts don't drop from HM 8 mans any longer?  Was a bit of a surprise last night when we ran KP real quick for a mount and it wasn't there.

The mounts from Hard KP/EV weren't 100% drops, so you probably just got unlucky.

[Raknor]

Did I miss somewhere in the patch notes that the mounts don't drop from HM 8 mans any longer?  Was a bit of a surprise last night when we ran KP real quick for a mount and it wasn't there.

The mounts from Hard KP/EV weren't 100% drops, so you probably just got unlucky.

Learn something new every day.  I've never had it NOT drop before so I just assumed it was a 100% drop.

[caladein]

I've never had it NOT drop before so I just assumed it was a 100% drop.

[Jherad]

1.2.0c Patch Notes
4/19/2012
General

    Corrected an audio issue that could cause a loud, perpetual "jet engine" sound that is most noticeable on the Republic and Imperial Fleets.
    Corrected a rare issue that could cause players to be unable to access their guild.

Classes and Combat

    Bounty Hunter
        Mercenary
        Heatseeker Missile: This ability will now only gain extra damage from your additional stacks of Heat Signatures and will not incorrectly detect debuffs from other players.

Trooper

    Commando
        Demolition Round: This ability will now only gain extra damage from your additional stacks of Gravity Vortex and will not incorrectly detect debuffs from other players.

World Event

    Jeelvic the Jawa will no longer take more DNA samples than intended for purchases.
    Players who were not properly granted final event codex entry and title for defeating Infected Trapjaw, Zama Brak, and Urtagh will be granted both the title and codex entry.

PvP

    Increased rewards for players on the losing side of Warzone matches.
    Players will now receive rewards for Warzones if they have earned at least one medal.

So, today's patch fixed Trooper's Demo Round incorrectly benefiting from other players' Grav Vortex stacks (which explains the regular 6-7k crits!), but in the process seem to have stopped it from benefiting from their own stacks as well - leading to a huge damage reduction.

Sigh.

[Ingmar]

Where is my companion trinket/earpiece fix!

[Lantyssa]

They didn't fix the jet engine noise, either.

[Fabricated]

Verdict on at least Story Mode Explosive Conflict: Eh.

Two Giant Guys: Don't even care to remember their names. On hardmode this fight is pretty ridiculous and is a huge fuck you to healers and the gimmick mostly revolves around the bosses behaving properly when taunted and DPS/Tank switches never ever ever fucking up. On normal mode it's pretty boring.

Stormcaller/Firebrand Tanks: Basically TOR's "The Olympics of Not Standing in Shit" fight. You run away from the yellow targeting circle, you run away from the red ones, you run from the pillars, you run out of the AOE and under the shield. Two of your most tanky DPS need to eat a debuff for the guy tanking the stormcaller tank, the firebrand tank needs to swap with the other tank (or if you have a tertiary tank, him/her) to dump a 100%+ damage debuff. It's a fairly amusing fight to me but you need to have your shield groups sorted out and your bolt kiter must not be retarded. Hardmode is basically a shitload more damage. On normal you don't need to tank swap on firebrand, just pop CDs. On Hardmode he'll melt your fucking face off so you need to.

Minesweeper: Fun but 100% dependent on two things: 1) The guy playing minesweeper (I'd make a tank do it) needs to be able to quickly solve a path, 2) People paying fucking attention when they get the defuser kit and doing so. On storymode if you miss a defuse you're hitting the enrage on the minefield. The guy at the end is piss easy if you have smugglers/agents to stun the turrets and people can stay out of the big red circle.

Kathless or whatever: If your DPS can focus fire quickly/properly this is pretty easy up until the end. Don't stand in bad stuff. Kill a couple gimmicky add groups. When the boss is finally knocked off his walker he is very, VERY mean to the tank and must be kited while being DPS'd.

[Nebu]

Verdict on at least Story Mode Explosive Conflict: Eh.

Thank you for reinforcing that cancelling my sub was a good call.  That doesn't sound fun at all.  I'm for a challenge, but it should be a fun challenge.

[Fabricated]

Also the trash is HORRIFIC on hardmode. Like, you pretty much die instantly if hit by any of the AOE effects they use. Also, the flashpoint gimmick of making shitloads of mobs spawn out of nowhere when you walk past invisible barriers is there. CC is absolutely a must. You do get rewarded for killing trash though since each major groups of trash after the first boss have a chest with the new crafting mats, crystals (Orange/Black) and Black Hole Comms.

The Minesweeper fight is kind of a fun novelty but very simple.

[Nebu]

I should have seen the Rakghoul place as a sign of things to come.  Too many trash mobs with gimic abilities, overly prolonged boss fights, and a bonus boss that is poorly balanced for the encounter.  Seems the new place follows a similar trend... some fun to be had, but not much.

[Fabricated]

The first boss is a cockblock for sure. The tanks have more reasonably avoidable damage and there's plenty of ways to handle the fight based on group makeup/mindset (people can't seem to fucking move? Make everyone but 2-3 people stand on the tank!). The minesweeper boss is tightly tuned but you have to be really dumb to fuck it up and it's kind of fun. Kathless is probably my least favorite type of fight where you have fairly easy stuff to do until the last "20%" or so where it's OHGODOHGODKILLITKILLITKILLIT as Kathless chases your tank around in a circle, nearly globalling him every few seconds.

I imagine when we get to him on hardmode, we'll wipe 1-2 times getting to that phase, then like a half dozen+ wipes finishing it. I fucking HATE fights that usually wipe you right at the end.

I should have seen the Rakghoul place as a sign of things to come.  Too many trash mobs with gimic abilities, overly prolonged boss fights, and a bonus boss that is poorly balanced for the encounter.  Seems the new place follows a similar trend... some fun to be had, but not much.

It's definitely a bit overtuned on hardmode as far as I'm concerned. The problem with TOR right now in terms of encounters is that all of the new shit HATES melee DPS. Melee somewhat make up for this by being way overpowered (Sentinels blow everyone CLEAN out of the water on DPS. Even the bugged Commandos couldn't keep up), but pretty much all of the bosses in EC hate melee and Lost Island/Kaon definitely hate melee.

Also...the bonus boss in Kaon is pointless since it drops a belt (Rakata-level belts can be crafted cheaply if you're armormech/synthweaving, or you can buy Columi/Tionese level stuff off the GTN which is perfectly accepable). Also unless they fixed it, if you insist on killing it just kite it alllllll the way back to your friends in the quarantine area and smoke it before the probes show up.

[caladein]

The trash in Kaon was pretty fun.  Did not think that during Story Explosive Conflict, which felt like a slog.  (Part of that was due to my wanting to stab half of my raid in the face though.)

It's not a bad set of fights, even comparing it to current WoW content, but the raid metagame surrounding it still sucks.

[Sky]

(Rakata-level belts can be crafted cheaply if you're armormech/synthweaving

Even Komoto has a rakata belt and bracer set. And I'm some kind of measure for not playing an mmo properly 

[Lantyssa]

I don't, but only because I need the stupid materials for the Synthweaving stuff.

[Sky]

I don't, but only because I need the stupid materials for the Synthweaving stuff.

That's why I had 127 credits the other night. Someone had the components I've never seen (ops maybe?) up for 45k each. Since they were going for over 100k, I decided to grab a couple, would've bought the third to flip if I'd had the cash.

[Fabricated]

If you bought Rakata Energy Nodes or Self Perpetuating Power Cells you need plans that drop from Ops to use them as far as I know. I think Bioware mentioned adding tons more craftables to both trainers and making BoP items BoE and other shit but who knows when they'll bother doing that.

[Sky]

The four rakata recipes I have are from the trainer (two each belt and bracer).

[Fabricated]

The Rakata plans from the trainer only require the Biometric Crystal Alloy or whatever which drops in Heroic flashpoints. The plans that drop in raids require Data Cubes, Rakata Energy Nodes, and Power Cells that only drop from raids.

It's a really stupid system however since the plans (outside of implants which are harder to come by) typically are complete shit compared to the items that actually drop, and produce Bind on PICKUP items. Normal EV/KA shit loot all over everyone and are really easy.

[Fabricated]

I officially hate the shit out of Toth and Zorn on hardmode now. 8-man HM was done by some of our 16m group before the last lockout just to check it out and they had far less issues than we did on 16m.

Last night we ate shit for 2 hours before just saying "fuck it" and going back to story mode after having almost completely random aggro drops, or toth jumping at literally random percentages, or taunts not working AFTER the boss' untauntable period was over, or people getting the fearful debuff despite being halfway across the map with no boss looking in their direction.

I am getting the feeling that 16-man is getting less testing.

[Raknor]

Yeah we didn't have much luck on those two bosses either.  Finally said fuck it after 2 hours of wiping as well.  I don't mind having cock block bosses in raids buy why do they seem intent on doing it on the first boss?  Pretty hard to gear up when you can't kill anything but trash.