Mass Effect 3 Spoiler Thread [Spoiler tag free, beware]

[Tebonas]

Its only relevant insofar as it will inform peoples decision to buy or not buy the next Bioware game.

[Simond]

If they really want to salvage their integrity they should either say "fuck you, the ending is fine" or "you're right, we fucked up, wrapping up a series about choice with one of three ending movies that are nonsense and all basically the same was dumb as hell." If they just said that everyone would tip their hats.

The fuck they would.  The only ones who are still raging at the ending are the ones who are either completely inconsolable regardless of what action Bioware takes, and the people who never had any stake in this to begin with.  Everyone else has moved on with their lives by now.  I've got too much other stuff to be playing to continue to dwell on ME3's ending for months.

Velorath? Steadfastly white-knighting for Bioware? Again?

Inconceivable!

PS: The ending is still terrible. Putting "NOTE: Poochie died on the way back to his home planet" as a text screen somewhere between "Shepard destroys the Galaxy", "Buzz Aldrin tells his grandkid that the universe is still fucked 50,000 years later", and "Buy our DLC kthx" doesn't make it any less terrible.

PPS: Have one hour, ten minutes of fan testimonials about ME3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUfzyRfNe9s

[Fabricated]

If they really want to salvage their integrity they should either say "fuck you, the ending is fine" or "you're right, we fucked up, wrapping up a series about choice with one of three ending movies that are nonsense and all basically the same was dumb as hell." If they just said that everyone would tip their hats.

The fuck they would.  The only ones who are still raging at the ending are the ones who are either completely inconsolable regardless of what action Bioware takes, and the people who never had any stake in this to begin with.  Everyone else has moved on with their lives by now.  I've got too much other stuff to be playing to continue to dwell on ME3's ending for months.

Still seems to be plenty of anger online and offline as far as my own anecdotes go.

My coworkers, their friends, random students/faculty who are gamers I talk with, etc. basically are now getting to the ending. The majority of these people haven't looked at hardly any of the complaints online outside of being dimly aware that people are dissatisfied with the ending.

I have not met a single person among these people who liked the ending. They're either disappointed, or really pissed off.

[Sjofn]

I know someone who liked the ending. Not even in the hedging "it wasn't THAT bad" way, she legitimately liked the ending. I think she's crazy, but it does take all kinds in this world. They're out there!

[Velorath]

If they really want to salvage their integrity they should either say "fuck you, the ending is fine" or "you're right, we fucked up, wrapping up a series about choice with one of three ending movies that are nonsense and all basically the same was dumb as hell." If they just said that everyone would tip their hats.

The fuck they would.  The only ones who are still raging at the ending are the ones who are either completely inconsolable regardless of what action Bioware takes, and the people who never had any stake in this to begin with.  Everyone else has moved on with their lives by now.  I've got too much other stuff to be playing to continue to dwell on ME3's ending for months.

Velorath? Steadfastly white-knighting for Bioware? Again?

Inconceivable!

Saying that most rational people don't continue dwelling on the ending of a video game (or even a movie or book) for weeks afterward is white-knighting Bioware now?  Or are you just upset that it highlights what a complete fucktard you are that you're still here posting about this a month after the game came out, when the only experience you have of the game is watching youtube videos?  I've acknowledged that I'm about a big a ME fan as you're likely to find on this board.  I didn't like the ending.  That was what, three weeks ago?  This isn't the death of a family member man, I'm pretty sure I'm past the acceptable period of mourning for this.  For people who are just now getting to the ending I can understand the wound is fresh, but personally I moved on to some new games already. 

The idea that there's anything Bioware could say or do at this point that would silence all the people who are still pissed off is a bit ridiculous, because aside from the people Fabricated mentioned that are just finishing, they're all either people who are unhealthily obsessed with Mass Effect (the crazy Bioware social board posters) or they're guys like you.

[Trippy]

If they really want to salvage their integrity they should either say "fuck you, the ending is fine" or "you're right, we fucked up, wrapping up a series about choice with one of three ending movies that are nonsense and all basically the same was dumb as hell." If they just said that everyone would tip their hats.

The fuck they would.  The only ones who are still raging at the ending are the ones who are either completely inconsolable regardless of what action Bioware takes, and the people who never had any stake in this to begin with.  Everyone else has moved on with their lives by now.  I've got too much other stuff to be playing to continue to dwell on ME3's ending for months.

Velorath? Steadfastly white-knighting for Bioware? Again?
Inconceivable!

PS: The ending is still terrible. Putting "NOTE: Poochie died on the way back to his home planet" as a text screen somewhere between "Shepard destroys the Galaxy", "Buzz Aldrin tells his grandkid that the universe is still fucked 50,000 years later", and "Buy our DLC kthx" doesn't make it any less terrible.

PPS: Have one hour, ten minutes of fan testimonials about ME3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUfzyRfNe9s

Simond, stop posting in the ME3 threads.

[Tannhauser]

If they really want to salvage their integrity they should either say "fuck you, the ending is fine" or "you're right, we fucked up, wrapping up a series about choice with one of three ending movies that are nonsense and all basically the same was dumb as hell." If they just said that everyone would tip their hats.

The fuck they would.  The only ones who are still raging at the ending are the ones who are either completely inconsolable regardless of what action Bioware takes, and the people who never had any stake in this to begin with.  Everyone else has moved on with their lives by now.  I've got too much other stuff to be playing to continue to dwell on ME3's ending for months.

Velorath? Steadfastly white-knighting for Bioware? Again?

Inconceivable!

Saying that most rational people don't continue dwelling on the ending of a video game (or even a movie or book) for weeks afterward is white-knighting Bioware now?  Or are you just upset that it highlights what a complete fucktard you are that you're still here posting about this a month after the game came out, when the only experience you have of the game is watching youtube videos?  I've acknowledged that I'm about a big a ME fan as you're likely to find on this board.  I didn't like the ending.  That was what, three weeks ago?  This isn't the death of a family member man, I'm pretty sure I'm past the acceptable period of mourning for this.  For people who are just now getting to the ending I can understand the wound is fresh, but personally I moved on to some new games already. 

The idea that there's anything Bioware could say or do at this point that would silence all the people who are still pissed off is a bit ridiculous, because aside from the people Fabricated mentioned that are just finishing, they're all either people who are unhealthily obsessed with Mass Effect (the crazy Bioware social board posters) or they're guys like you.

Discussion boards, how do they work?

[Lakov_Sanite]

Whoever swears the most, wins.  Cockbag

[Ratman_tf]

I've been thinking. I could give Bioware a pass on the 'artistic integrity' thing, if their goal was to emulate a lot of science fiction and have a terrible ending.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkecbH6an0w

 

[Velorath]

Discussion boards, how do they work?

How do they typically work, or how should they ideally work?

[Sir Fodder]

"You seemed to want closure, go play the new ending"

"closure? WTF? I just wanted a non-borked ending, you play it"

"fuck it lets check Youtube"

"Aggh, will someone play the new ending so we can see it, anyone?.."

[MournelitheCalix]

Wow, this Pax panel is just unbelievable.  I can't believe how many paid Seals they have in the audience clapping their flippers over the nothing fish they were given.  I genuinely wonder how many are paid EA seals.

My favorite quote 16 minutes in:  "We didn't know there was a huge demand for it"


This concerning wanting a comprehensive interactive ending.


Oh and WTF is this 10 minutes plus dedicated to krogan and genophage.  What complete garbage I don't know anyone who gives two damn shits about how he tries to bring to "life" someone who wants Wrex back in the game instead of actually repairing the ending to the damn game.

[Margalis]

Eh, Velorath being Velorath. Defender of all things Bioware is his schtick. It's not "white knighting" as much as "Velorathing."

You cannot say something negative about Bioware without Velorath retorting. That's just how it is. It's almost comforting in it's predictability.

[Margalis]

Still seems to be plenty of anger online and offline as far as my own anecdotes go.

That point that Velorath brought up is a complete non-sequitur anyway. I am not really into Star Wars (news flash!) and I don't rage about stuff like Han shooting first because although it's stupid the movies are stupid to begin with, but if Lucas said "you know changing that was dumb" I would give him props for admitting it and I'm sure I'm not alone.

Right now Bioware is still claiming that the clearly naked emperor is wearing some decent clothes. I think a lot of people would be relieved and more optimistic about the future if they would stop hiding behind review scores and artistic integrity and just say "the ending we delivered totally sucked - full stop. it doesn't need explaining or clarification - it was just fucking bad." You don't have to be some sort of obsessive hater to give someone credit for growing a pair and admitting to a screw up. I think a lot if not most people would be glad to hear a no-bullshit mea culpa.

[Velorath]

It would be awesome if you could stop your furious masturbation over ME3's bad ending long enough to type out a response explaining what I said in the post in question that was defending Bioware.  If nothing else it would give your dick a few moments of relief from the chafing it must have endured over the last month or so.

[Margalis]

Are you for real?

Is this the part where you threaten to kill me because I don't love Bioware sufficiently or are we still a couple posts away from that?

All you've done for the last what, 3 or 4 posts, is used non-sequiturs and ad-hominem to change the subject from how Bioware fucked up to how people who dare lightly criticize Bioware are insane and evil and obsessed. Unlike a guy who constantly hits refresh on every Bioware-related thread so he can immediately respond to nay-sayers - that guy is totally normal! But yeah, other than that, you've done very little to defend Bioware.

It's been a few pages since you last used your magical midichlorian-based powers of armchair psychology to determine that I am an awful misanthrope who deserves death, maybe you could start that totally normal and rational conversation going again. 

[Kageru]

Normal people might just shrug and move on... but we are dealing with gaming fans. There's still people angry about all sorts of ancient injustices.

That said it doesn't really matter. The only long term cost is a small hit to their image, probably an even smaller hit to the sales of their next game and a story that will live on as a infamous blunder (regardless of whether they fix it).

[Velorath]

Are you for real?

Is this the part where you threaten to kill me because I don't love Bioware sufficiently or are we still a couple posts away from that?

This is the part where I've stopped trying to have any sort of rational discussion with a guy who is clearly rolling around on a rubber sheet in his own feces in between posts.  Not enough star wars in this rant though by the way.  Little disappointing.

[jakonovski]

Oh man and here I thought my BF3 whining was bad.   

[Lantyssa]

Normal people might just shrug and move on... but we are dealing with gaming fans. There's still people angry about all sorts of ancient injustices.

MoO3.

[Paelos]

Normal people might just shrug and move on... but we are dealing with gaming fans. There's still people angry about all sorts of ancient injustices.

MoO3.

ToA 

[Paelos]

The idea that there's anything Bioware could say or do at this point that would silence all the people who are still pissed off is a bit ridiculous, because aside from the people Fabricated mentioned that are just finishing, they're all either people who are unhealthily obsessed with Mass Effect (the crazy Bioware social board posters) or they're guys like you.

You are leaving out a large group. The people that didn't buy the game because of the bad press, and now may never buy any of their games again until they have proven they will right the ship. To them (and I count myself in this group since I bought the other two ME games), it's not about fixing THIS game. It's about showing some actual recognition for their failures, making efforts to show the gaming community they are legitimately sorry and their outrage was founded, and working to fix their errors in their next installment of they put out.

[Ratman_tf]

Some people make it sound like any negativity on the net is caused by one pissed off nerdio in Hoboken, posting and reposting and answering himself on a zillion dummy accounts.

[Merusk]

I'm with the monkey. 

I really enjoyed ME1.  Thought ME2 was ok, but didn't like some of the direction it had gone with loot, etc.   The stuff I'd been hearing about ME3 made me leery (Storymode & action mode, multiplayer focus stuff, removing/ reducing loot even further) so I wanted to investigate and see what was up.  Particularly after DA2 was such a let-down compared to DA1; BW had shown they were changing and it wasn't in a way I was entirely happy with.

During that research I spoiled the ending for myself and I decided "No, I'll just hold off. That sounds amazingly stupid but maybe it's just the usual beta hate."   Turns out I made the better decision, IMO.   Yeah, maybe the rest of the game is amazing. It's certainly not $65 worth of amazing so I'll pick up the "Gold: GOTY" edition for $12 a few years from now.   I'll continue to hold that policy Bioware games until they prove thins aren't as flaky as they have been the last few years.

[Ironwood]

Ditto.

[Paelos]

I really enjoyed ME1.  Thought ME2 was ok, but didn't like some of the direction it had gone with loot, etc.   The stuff I'd been hearing about ME3 made me leery (Storymode & action mode, multiplayer focus stuff, removing/ reducing loot even further) so I wanted to investigate and see what was up.  Particularly after DA2 was such a let-down compared to DA1; BW had shown they were changing and it wasn't in a way I was entirely happy with.

During that research I spoiled the ending for myself and I decided "No, I'll just hold off. That sounds amazingly stupid but maybe it's just the usual beta hate."   Turns out I made the better decision, IMO.   Yeah, maybe the rest of the game is amazing. It's certainly not $65 worth of amazing so I'll pick up the "Gold: GOTY" edition for $12 a few years from now.   I'll continue to hold that policy Bioware games until they prove thins aren't as flaky as they have been the last few years.

I think you should print out that as a letter and mail it to Ray Muzyka, tbh. It's something I believe a CEO of a company should use to motivate his own people.

[Velorath]

The idea that there's anything Bioware could say or do at this point that would silence all the people who are still pissed off is a bit ridiculous, because aside from the people Fabricated mentioned that are just finishing, they're all either people who are unhealthily obsessed with Mass Effect (the crazy Bioware social board posters) or they're guys like you.

You are leaving out a large group. The people that didn't buy the game because of the bad press, and now may never buy any of their games again until they have proven they will right the ship. To them (and I count myself in this group since I bought the other two ME games), it's not about fixing THIS game. It's about showing some actual recognition for their failures, making efforts to show the gaming community they are legitimately sorry and their outrage was founded, and working to fix their errors in their next installment of they put out.

I understand that position to an extent, but almost all of the bad press was about the ending (there was also the DLC stuff).  The gameplay improved from previous games, and there was good writing throughout most of it.  They floundered with about 1% of the game.  Now considering that no company is going to come out and say that the product they have on the market kinda sucks the end (I can't think of any other author, director, or game developer who has done that), what would you have them say at this point?  I don't exactly get the "I heard these guys made an awesome game up until the last 10 minutes, I didn't buy the game though, and I need them to apologize before I consider picking up their stuff in the future" thinking.

[Ironwood]

I don't have a dog in this fight, but seriously, you're saying the ending of a massively succesful trilogy boils down to 1% ?

Because that's kinda delusional.

[Paelos]

Velorath, you are misinterpreting the results. When you write a story and fuck up the end, it's not 1% of your story. You fucked up the story. In this world, you're only as good as your last impression. If your last impression on the users was a total disaster, you are a total disaster until you prove otherwise. Nobody will talk about the game being great when a part of it is unforgivably wrong, AND it happens to be at the very end.

People would forgive them if this wasn't a series of events that precipitated their hesitation. Dragon Age 2 started the ball rolling. SWTOR helped it pick up steam. ME3 put the nail in the coffin.

The short answer to your question of why buyer perception changed has to do both with their ending and with their track record slowly dwindling. People are saavy with their money in an economy that's not great. When we feel like people are cutting corners developing any product and then demanding we pay more for the priviledge of using it? That's not the kind of producer many will frequent in the future.

[Ingmar]

It's certainly not $65 worth of amazing

I'm sorry, there's just no way to make that call without actually seeing it for yourself. And sure, there's absolutely a risk that you won't think it was worth it once you're done.

[Sjofn]

People would forgive them if this wasn't a series of events that precipitated their hesitation. Dragon Age 2 started the ball rolling. SWTOR helped it pick up steam. ME3 put the nail in the coffin.

This may be the case for you personally, but SWTOR has not generated neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeearly as much internet whining as DA2 and ME3's ending has. SWTOR is more a "eh, it's alright, kinda rough around the edges, but I think it's half the whole MMO thing" sort of shrugging of the shoulders by most detractors from what I've seen, rather than the full voiced wailing the haters of DA2 and ME3 generate.

[caladein]

I don't have a dog in this fight, but seriously, you're saying the ending of a massively succesful trilogy boils down to 1% ?

Because that's kinda delusional.

It's not, the rest of the game resolves everything on consequence.  I find "the ultimate fate of the world/galaxy/baseball team" to be the least interesting part of most stories.  (Which is related to what I said in the non-spoiler thread about epilogue cards being cheesy and unnecessary in fiction.)

[Paelos]

This may be the case for you personally, but SWTOR has not generated neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeearly as much internet whining as DA2 and ME3's ending has. SWTOR is more a "eh, it's alright, kinda rough around the edges, but I think it's half the whole MMO thing" sort of shrugging of the shoulders by most detractors from what I've seen, rather than the full voiced wailing the haters of DA2 and ME3 generate.

SWTOR didn't stop the ball rolling, even if it generated a meh feeling to some. The last absolute hit they had was in 2010.

[Velorath]

Velorath, you are misinterpreting the results. When you write a story and fuck up the end, it's not 1% of your story. You fucked up the story. In this world, you're only as good as your last impression. If your last impression on the users was a total disaster, you are a total disaster until you prove otherwise. Nobody will talk about the game being great when a part of it is unforgivably wrong, AND it happens to be at the very end.

Again, I kinda agree and disagree.  A bad ending certainly taints the whole story, but I can think of a lot of works of fiction where I didn't like the end but could still appreciate the good stuff that came before.  Battlestar Galactica, Stephen King's The Stand, Sopranos, etc... are examples, but I can make a distinction between "there was a lot of good writing here but they stumbled at the finish line" and just plain "this writing is shit" (I also haven't been waiting on an apology from any of the people involved in the aforementioned works).  I don't think a bad end invalidates everything that came before it, but for guys like you and Merusk, the ending of ME3 is really the only impression you have of the game right now.  So having shown that they do have the talent to make a good game, with good writing, good mechanics, and now even good multiplayer, I'm not sure what they need to say to convince guys like you who didn't actually play ME3 to buy their next game, because the truth is, even the best writers can fuck up an ending.  Again, do you want them to say "sorry we fucked up the ending on this, won't happen again."?  Realistically going forward nothing they say is going to change peoples' perspectives, it just comes down to the quality of their next titles. 

To clarify I'm not saying you guys need to rush out and buy ME3, or pre-order their next game the second it's announced.  If Merusk wants to want for the game to hit $12, that's great.  I do that with a shit-ton of games, even good ones (just mentioned in another topic getting great deals on the last AC game and Crusader Kings 2).  What started off this branch of discussion was me responding to Margailis by saying that it doesn't matter what Bioware's PR says at this point.  People who played the game have moved on, and the people who are still actively expressing their rage at this point are either the unhealthily hardcore fans and the Anti-Bioware/EA folks.  If you want to add "guys who played the past 2 games but skipped this one because they heard the ending sucked" so be it, but again, if you didn't experience the game, I'm not sure what you'd have Bioware tell you at this point.  I can't really think of another medium where people expect this much feedback from the creators either.  I'm not asking Ridley Scott to explain on Twitter why I should drop money on Prometheus after his last movie Robin Hood.

[koro]

I think the big gripe with the ending is the feeling that it pretty much invalidated the series you just got finished stuffing between 90 and 400 hours in to. Taken at face value the galaxy is, at best, brought back to square two with regard to interstellar travel and, at worst, you've destroyed more worlds and species than the Reapers could ever have hoped to. For being such a tiny overall percentage of the game, it has an immense impact on the series as a whole. It's the dropped pass in the end zone at the 10-second mark at the end of the 4th quarter of the Super Bowl.

And, as an aside, Stephen King has readily admitted he's pretty crap at writing endings.