Frogdogs score!

[murdoc]

It's interesting how many of the medals incentivize losing play, though. On Voidstar last night, most of us just wanted to win, and then two complete assholes were screaming at the middle gate to stop trying to open the gate so that we could just farm the unusually hapless Imps. In some sense, they're perfectly right--once you have a win down by getting farther than the other team, there's no real reward for wininng all the way.

This happens all the time in 5-0 Huttball games too. There's no real reward for getting that 6th score and ending the game early.

[amiable]

The more I play the more I feel medals/MVP have to go.  It incentivizes all sorts of crappy behavior.

[Nebu]

The more I play the more I feel medals/MVP have to go.  It incentivizes all sorts of crappy behavior.

I think revamping the medal system and coupling it to the daily would help. Something like "Win a warzone while also completing 6 medals".  Healers would need more ways to attain medals first.

[amiable]

The more I play the more I feel medals/MVP have to go.  It incentivizes all sorts of crappy behavior.

I think revamping the medal system and coupling it to the daily would help. Something like "Win a warzone while also completing 6 medals".  Healers would need more ways to attain medals first.

Oh god no.  That we create horrible matches with idiots sitting in hazards and healing themselves folks leaving nodes to get into fights, etc....

[murdoc]

The more I play the more I feel medals/MVP have to go.  It incentivizes all sorts of crappy behavior.

I disagree, they just need to revamp it a little.

I'd like to see some WZ specific medals ie Goals/Assists in Huttball, planting/disabling bombs in Voidstar.

[Mazakiel]

Yeah, don't get rid of the medals, just add some to encourage people to work together and go for the actual win conditions of the map.  I'd hate having to save up for the gear if I wasn't getting bonus commendations from medals. 

Add medals for doing the mission objectives. Scoring goals, making passes, setting bombs, capturing nodes, etc.  There seems to be achievements for all of those, so it shouldn't be too hard a jump to toss some medals at people when they do that stuff.  And award some of them to the whole team when an objective is met, or to everyone in the radius of the person who scores a goal or whatever.  Encourage people to work together to get a goal instead of punching it out in the middle of the map. 

[Sky]

It's so cute when you guys try to come up with ways for people to play as sportsman rather than opportunistic selfish retards.

I sometimes like to imagine the NFL played in an online pvp fashion.

You can't beat human nature, folks.

[Threash]

The reward for winning fast simply has to be better than the reward for milking medals.

[Nebu]

It's so cute when you guys try to come up with ways for people to play as sportsman rather than opportunistic selfish retards.

Is it as cute as you being condescending in a gaming forum?   

[Sky]

Indeed.

Here, have a Rodian Mayonnaise Sandwich.

[Shatter]

As far as I can recall there is no individual reward in hutball for scoring.  There is no reward for successfully setting off a bomb on a door in Voidstar or activating the bridges.  No reward for taking a turret in Alderaan.  Correct me if Im wrong. 

[disKret]

As far as I can recall there is no individual reward in hutball for scoring.  There is no reward for successfully setting off a bomb on a door in Voidstar or activating the bridges.  No reward for taking a turret in Alderaan.  Correct me if Im wrong. 

You are right. We tried to cap 6 points as fast as we can with friends - ending up with almost no medals. Zerg in the middle got all.

[Shatter]

As far as I can recall there is no individual reward in hutball for scoring.  There is no reward for successfully setting off a bomb on a door in Voidstar or activating the bridges.  No reward for taking a turret in Alderaan.  Correct me if Im wrong. 

You are right. We tried to cap 6 points as fast as we can with friends - ending up with almost no medals. Zerg in the middle got all.

Thats how you tell who played the game to win, least medals in the end.   

[Fordel]

Give Medals for offensive objectives then you just have everyone clicking the doors like idiots instead of one guy doing it with the team trying to cover him.

It also doesn't solve the issue of one dude carrying the ball 90% of the way, but tossing it to the cherrypicker at the very end for the score. It also doesn't account for the people running interference, healing, supporting, peeling etc.


Winning fast IS already better then farming medals, its just you don't see BIG NUMBAR on the score sheet and people can't figure it out.

[Threash]

I play to win and get plenty of medals in the process, it's only when you are destroying the other team that you get less.  For most people winning is more important than medals because they are there for the daily/weekly, not for farming valor.

[eldaec]

I generally try to cap points or do whatever makes us win because farming medals is absolutely no fun and anyway pvp gear looks terrible, also I can't imagine bothering with pvp once in the 50 bracket so it doesn't matter, otoh winning makes me feel warm and fuzzy.

[Threash]

I generally try to cap points or do whatever makes us win because farming medals is absolutely no fun and anyway pvp gear looks terrible, also I can't imagine bothering with pvp once in the 50 bracket so it doesn't matter, otoh winning makes me feel warm and fuzzy.

Plus it's a nice chunk of exp and money while leveling.  In happier news it appears the bug that made some wins not count is gone.

[Fordel]

Most of the medals come from things you should be doing to win anyways.

It's only from those edge cases where some DPS sorc stands in the fire to get a healing medal near the end, cases not really worth fussing over really.

[Sjofn]

Indeed.

Here, have a Rodian Mayonnaise Sandwich.

Argh, you fucker.

[Ingmar]

Most of the medals come from things you should be doing to win anyways.

It's only from those edge cases where some DPS sorc stands in the fire to get a healing medal near the end, cases not really worth fussing over really.

No no, some corner case person is getting something they might not deserve! BURN THE WHOLE SYSTEM DOWN.

[Khaldun]

Most of the medals come from things you should be doing to win anyways.

It's only from those edge cases where some DPS sorc stands in the fire to get a healing medal near the end, cases not really worth fussing over really.

Man, I don't agree. When there's a scrum of people just killing each other over and over and no one is really trying to cap a turret or plant a bomb, that's not about winning. And it's what happens a decent proportion of the time.

[Threash]

You can't cap a turret or plant a bomb until you are done killing each other, not against any half decent team. 

[Furiously]

I had been saving up my commendations to buy my last couple pieces. Then my daily bbag dropped legs. I then spent most of the points on the bp. Give me about 100 more expertise. Only boots to go.

[Fordel]

Most of the medals come from things you should be doing to win anyways.

It's only from those edge cases where some DPS sorc stands in the fire to get a healing medal near the end, cases not really worth fussing over really.

Man, I don't agree. When there's a scrum of people just killing each other over and over and no one is really trying to cap a turret or plant a bomb, that's not about winning. And it's what happens a decent proportion of the time.

Yes, sometimes teams will stalemate or tie, it happens.

[UnSub]

You can't cap a turret or plant a bomb until you are done killing each other, not against any half decent team. 

But there's a difference between a coordinated team and a PUG / one that is just out there for themselves.

The single question that devs need to ask themselves about players is, "Where does the advantage lie?" because that's where players will head. If there is more reward in not winning the game the devs have designed, or standing in a fire and self-healing, or flipping keeps or whatever, that is what players will do. Looks like you might lose? Screw the team, earn the medal.

Then the game moves on from being Huttball to Earning Medals, which is an entirely different focus.

[Fordel]

You can't cap a turret or plant a bomb until you are done killing each other, not against any half decent team. 

But there's a difference between a coordinated team and a PUG / one that is just out there for themselves.

The single question that devs need to ask themselves about players is, "Where does the advantage lie?" because that's where players will head. If there is more reward in not winning the game the devs have designed, or standing in a fire and self-healing, or flipping keeps or whatever, that is what players will do. Looks like you might lose? Screw the team, earn the medal.

Then the game moves on from being Huttball to Earning Medals, which is an entirely different focus.

There's no difference if the two PuG's are equally shitty, you'll still end up with a stalemate. Just because it arrives through inability rather then ability doesn't really change the situation. 



There isn't more reward from just Medals, is the thing. Winning itself is still going to net you more reward, largely because winning and gaining medals are not remotely exclusive. Almost all the medals come from natural proper play, with the dude standing in the fire healing himself being the aberration.

Or look at it another way... Medals reward PARTICIPATION, by far the single most important thing in any PvP game. Because of Medals, there's reason for people on the losing side to keep playing and trying. Maybe they won't capture a second node all game, but now there is incentive to at least keep putting out an effort. Without the medals you just get people waiting a match out, afking in a corner or flat out leaving the zone entirely. The Medals are rewarding the effort, not necessarily the success.

That "I'll just farm medals" is still far and away better then "I'll just tab out till I get my token" in the same situation without medals.

[murdoc]

We kept having groups of 10-11 in the Warzones last night. The funny thing was that if the other side didn't get the bug as well, the WZ ended early as the teams couldn't match the same amount of players. We did have an Alderaan game that had to be 11 vs 10, made for a packed WZ.

[MisterNoisy]

There isn't more reward from just Medals, is the thing. Winning itself is still going to net you more reward, largely because winning and gaining medals are not remotely exclusive. Almost all the medals come from natural proper play, with the dude standing in the fire healing himself being the aberration.

My personal fave are the sorcs standing way off to the side spamming consume and heals to the exclusion of everything else.

[Nevermore]

I really have no idea why Sorcerers even have Consume.  I've never had to use it on my Sorc even once.  Are there really any out there having problems with force use?

[Mazakiel]

The only time I used it was if I accidentally pulled more enemies than I expected and had to jump between healing my companion and nuking stuff and the fight was taking forever.  So normal use?  Never.  I forget it's there most the time. 

[Nebu]

I really have no idea why Sorcerers even have Consume.  I've never had to use it on my Sorc even once.  Are there really any out there having problems with force use?

I use it all the time in pvp if I have a healer in my premade or in really long boss fights when I know I can run to the healing sorc's Ae heal for health. 

[apocrypha]

My sorc is heal specced and I use consume regularly when soloing.

With a DPS companion (using Ashara atm) I heal her and get the free consume proc often enough that I never run out of force - means I usually have zero downtime between pulls. Couple of seconds of Seethe for a double pull or an elite/double strong.

A +1 or +2 elite pull means a lot of Consume being used, but again only when the free proc is up. Without that proc I'd never touch it tbh.

[Sjofn]

Yeah, I use consume every time it procs, which is pretty often if we're fighting something hard (on my healy sage). I have to try REALLY HARD to kill my force enough for me to consider using it without the proc, though.

[Fraeg]

I really have no idea why Sorcerers even have Consume.  I've never had to use it on my Sorc even once.  Are there really any out there having problems with force use?

PVE, or in voidstar when the action is nonstop and I am not dying.  The channeled hot making your next consume not taking any health off you trait thingy helps though.

[Der Helm]

So, anyone up for some below level 50 PvP today/tonight ? Did the ts/vent/whatever server materialize ?