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Author Topic: The AC-Changing/Dual-Spec/"I'd rather play Rift" Thread  (Read 14133 times)
Sky
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Reply #175 on: December 02, 2011, 03:57:12 PM

It also seemed like they were tailoring blue+ drops to the people there, Sjofn and I didn't see anything drop that wasn't for us. Could have been coincidence though.
I did it with my guardian/2x commando/smuggler something and a double-bladed saber with Dark 1 dropped from the Sith boss. Nobody could use it and it ended up on my shadow companion (who I wouldn't get for 5 or 6 more levels, I had banked the saber).
Fun with force quake and throwing junked out droids plus I can heal!
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Triforcer
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Reply #176 on: December 05, 2011, 01:13:31 PM

I apologize if someone said this already, but my thoughts are as follows:

AC-switching really wouldn't be the end of the world for Warriors/Knights and BH/Trooper, but it would be much, much worse for Agents/Smugglers and SI/JCs.

W/K and BH/Trooper are all a seamless continuum of tanking, dps, and quasi-tanking and quasi-dps.  Yeah, switching would allow someone to go from an AC without healing to an AC with healing, but that doesn't seem so bad to me.  This is where the hysterical "GIVE ME ALL ITEMS AND 8 LVL 50s WHEN I LOGIN 1ST TIME OR THIS IZ EQ 1999" ranters have a point- it isn't a mage switching to a warrior, it really is more like a resto druid dual speccing as a bear or balance druid.  

Agent/Smuggler and SI/JC switching is worse for one reason:  each has an AC with perma-stealth.  I assume the EQ 1999 ranters would also wail and knash their teeth if they had to suffer the unbearable imposition of a quest to switch (or if they had to switch in the Fleet only), so let's assume a 10 second out of combat AC switch (akin to WoW dual-speccing).

Can anyone see the problem (especially in PvP, but also in terms of not rendering certain PvE encounters and quests trivial) in letting someone stealth into position and then morph into a long-range nuker?  Hint:  Its the same reason why no MMO ever, in all of time, has combined perma-stealth with long-range DPS.  

On balance, I'm against AC-switching (the huffy indignancy and breathtaking sense of entitlement of the pro-switching faction doesn't help either.  I truly believe that the comment someone made earlier as a joke (you should be able to send companions to dungeons by themselves and come back with the boss loot) will be the goal of said faction in the next generation of MMOs, and anyone who disagrees is an EQ 1999 masochist fascist).  

« Last Edit: December 05, 2011, 01:17:46 PM by Triforcer »

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Ingmar
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Reply #177 on: December 05, 2011, 01:17:25 PM

You can't switch specs inside BGs or arenas in WoW. I can't imagine this would be any different.

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Triforcer
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Reply #178 on: December 05, 2011, 01:20:17 PM

You can't switch specs inside BGs or arenas in WoW. I can't imagine this would be any different.

SWTOR has world PvP on half the servers.  I stalk people from stealth until the right moment, AC-switch, and nuke them from 30 meters- combining the best of both ACs.

And the point still stands with open-world PvE and instanced PvE as well.  Finally, given the aforementioned exponential growth in the sense of self-entitlement, I can't imagine the pro-switching faction would accept a PvE dungeon restriction (maybe they'd be ok with a PvP restriction- most pro-switchers seem to be, completely coincidentally, PvEers).  

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Reply #179 on: December 05, 2011, 01:25:50 PM

Nobody gives a shit about world PVP balance.

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Rasix
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Reply #180 on: December 05, 2011, 01:33:29 PM

Good thing we also know just how the switching mechanism would work.  rolleyes

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Der Helm
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Reply #181 on: December 05, 2011, 01:43:01 PM

 Facepalm

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Maledict
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Reply #182 on: December 05, 2011, 02:27:14 PM

Sorry but the argument that once in a thousand fights the ability to stealth to a spot, then spend 10 seconds switching specs and then unload ranged dps is one of the silliest in the thread. Seriously, there's so little 'broken' in your argument it's silly, and absolutely not a good argument against AC switching.

Heck, if someone is still in place after all that time in world pvp surely they deserve to be dead!
Triforcer
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Reply #183 on: December 05, 2011, 02:49:07 PM

Sorry but the argument that once in a thousand fights the ability to stealth to a spot, then spend 10 seconds switching specs and then unload ranged dps is one of the silliest in the thread. Seriously, there's so little 'broken' in your argument it's silly, and absolutely not a good argument against AC switching.

Heck, if someone is still in place after all that time in world pvp surely they deserve to be dead!

Do you really think that is silly in world pvp?  With AC-switching, 2 out of 4 classes in the game get to walk around world pvp perma-stealthed.  You get to start every fight on your terms (or at the very least, walk wherever you want in perfect safety before switching to your "real" class).  You don't think that affects PvP balance?

And nobody actually addressed the world PvE point.  There will be encounters where assassins/operatives can stealth by a lot of stuff, but the devs can balance for that given the damage and melee limitations in those classes.  You don't think people will complain and say quests "suck" when you can bypass almost all of it, and then render the content trivial with 30m lightning bolts?  

Building off those points, AC-switching would devastate class balance.  With it, why would you ever NOT take a class with a stealth AC?  You can take any of the three roles (heal, tank, DPS) and get stealth to boot.

NOTE:  Probably isn't clear from my posts, but AC-switching based on a quest (or even having to go back to the Fleet) really isn't something that bothers me.  Nothing I say above is really affected by that.  AC-switching on the fly (even with a 10 second counter) really bothers me.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2011, 02:51:09 PM by Triforcer »

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Nevermore
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Reply #184 on: December 05, 2011, 03:01:21 PM

Can anyone see the problem (especially in PvP, but also in terms of not rendering certain PvE encounters and quests trivial) in letting someone stealth into position and then morph into a long-range nuker?  Hint:  Its the same reason why no MMO ever, in all of time, has combined perma-stealth with long-range DPS.  

Hello, Balance Druids.  Also, any of the three archer classes in DAoC.

Edit: Wow, there's even more apoplectic rants about this.  It makes me wonder why 90% of the players in WoW don't play Druids so they can stealth around and nuke people with their Balance specs.

With it, why would you ever NOT take a class with a stealth AC?  You can take any of the three roles (heal, tank, DPS) and get stealth to boot.

The same reason approximately 90% of the player base in WoW doesn't play the stealth-using, tanking, healing, melee dpsing, ranged dpsing Druid class.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2011, 03:08:27 PM by Nevermore »

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Reply #185 on: December 05, 2011, 06:52:36 PM

Have starting to cast the class switch break stealth.  Then they're sitting there for ten seconds trying to get into their uber-PvP spec while the target has a chance to wail on them.  Kinda like casting anything else breaks stealth in SWTOR.  (Sith Assassin to 23, so I can verify this is the case.  Instant or get spotted.)

And that's less of an issue than Night Elves of any class getting Shadowmeld, which seems to have survived all these years just fine.

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Ingmar
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Reply #186 on: December 05, 2011, 06:56:06 PM

Seriously of all the objections that have been raised, this is the stupidest. It's like you came out of a time warp from 2001 when everyone was crying about shadowblades attacking with two-handed axes from stealth.

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luckton
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Reply #187 on: December 05, 2011, 07:09:34 PM

Seriously of all the objections that have been raised, this is the stupidest. It's like you came out of a time warp from 2001 when everyone was crying about shadowblades attacking with two-handed axes from stealth.

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Rasix
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Reply #188 on: December 05, 2011, 08:00:39 PM

He nearly had an aneurysm when they nerfed rocket helms in WoW.  He gave the biggest shit, while everyone else just shrugged and played on.   If there's some stupid fringe case for PVP, Triforcer is all over it.

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Lantyssa
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Reply #189 on: December 05, 2011, 08:25:37 PM

At least all feels right in the world since it's about a Star Wars game.  All we need now is Caella...

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