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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  Star Wars: The Old Republic  |  Topic: Good, Bad, I'm the guy with the gun. [Trooper/BH Mechanics] 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: Good, Bad, I'm the guy with the gun. [Trooper/BH Mechanics]  (Read 108958 times)
Sky
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Reply #105 on: December 21, 2011, 09:03:52 AM

Focus is far better than Heat for longer boss fights. As the JK is building more and more focus, the BH has to start shutting down and working at a lowered efficiency level because once heat creeps over 50% regen starts to suffer and you slide into a hot pit of not being able to use anything but the plink shot.

Heat mitigation skills and talents take a while to collect, there's a long CD on the straight up vent heat skill.
sam, an eggplant
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Reply #106 on: December 21, 2011, 09:07:39 AM

I would assume that heat and focus are roughly equivalent for sustained damage, if you manage your heat properly and stay under 40. You have a real opportunity to screw up with heat that you don't with focus, so it rewards a modicrum of player skill.

When dealing with difficult solo packs, on the other hand, you can blow all your heat to nuke them down extremely quickly, then use your regenerate skill for 2 seconds to bleed off the extra heat and move on to the next pack. Alternatively, on easier packs with no strong/elite, you can manage your heat, keeping it below 50 or so, and immediately move on to the next group. This is why the heat mechanic is inherently superior.
Merusk
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Reply #107 on: December 21, 2011, 09:10:32 AM

Even longer solo fights you start to run into heat issues - something I'm noticing in the mid 20's as things are taking a little longer to kill.   If I get into a fight in an area that I thought was clear and respawns another 4-5 guys or an added strong I know I've got to start managing that stat like a mofo or wind-up taking even longer to kill things because I'll be plinking in short order.

Tanking in groups also takes some effort to remember to manage that and plink things rather than play mashy-mashy on your fun abilities.  Yeah, you've got a lot of AOEs but a few wrist rockets, a rocket punch and a flame sweep and suddenly you're doing very little for a long while.  

I can see why it's superior for soloing, but in groups I think the Jedi might win out.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
sam, an eggplant
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Reply #108 on: December 21, 2011, 09:19:22 AM

It's definitely superior for soloing. In fact, it's the best resource mechanic I've ever played in a MMO. With normal energy, you've got 100 of your resource, it regenerates at a constant rate, and you use it up as quickly as possible. With heat, your sustained damage is tuned assuming you stay under 50 or so-- but when you need to burst, you can dump it all very quickly. Then since the fight is over, you rest for 2 seconds and are good to go. If you get ambushed or whatever, you can always use a cooldown like vent heat. It is really an innovative, fun resource mechanism.

The main advantage of focus (or energy, mana, etc) for sustained damage is that you can't mess up. You just hit your buttons whenever they light up in a loose priority and you're good to go. With heat, you don't always want to use your abilities when their cooldowns are up. I like this gameplay; others may disagree.

Tanking is another thing entirely. You want consistency to reliably tank. I can definitely see it being a detriment there-- mobs run in, and you have no choice but to use an expensive AE or two to grab threat and suddenly your heat is crazy high and you're screwed for the next 15 seconds.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2011, 09:21:15 AM by sam, an eggplant »
Sky
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Reply #109 on: December 21, 2011, 09:22:21 AM

I get down to a bare minimum when I tank for groups, making sure to use the highest threat stuff I can without burning up. Sucks, because the flamethrower is a really good tool for tanking, but has to be used so sparingly. I love using grapple to line mobs up for flamethrower.

One cool thing is I've finally started to see some good results the last couple nights on my talented rocket punch. I got the talent that resets RP on a successful shield, and it's awesome. Oh look, RP is up again BLAM. I'm swinging back over to putting spare points into the +8% RP dmg talent...
Merusk
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Reply #110 on: December 21, 2011, 09:28:57 AM

Tanking is another thing entirely. You want consistency to reliably tank. I can definitely see it being a detriment there-- mobs run in, and you have no choice but to use an expensive AE or two to grab threat and suddenly your heat is crazy high and you're screwed for the next 15 seconds.

The big animal fight in Athiss is a great example of heat holding you back (you get 4-5 adds 3 different times) but of how fucking terrible the targeting interface is.  I couldn't tab-target to hit any of the adds, and the hitbox of the big mob I was tanking wouldn't let me target through it, either.    I just wound-up standing on top of the healer so I could peel shit off of him.  Terrible.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
Viin
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Reply #111 on: December 21, 2011, 09:40:24 AM

You couldn't tab to switch target? Why not?

Would the 'target of' setting help in that situation?

- Viin
murdoc
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Reply #112 on: December 21, 2011, 09:41:00 AM

Tab targetting can be flaky on what it decides to target next.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2011, 12:06:08 PM by murdoc »

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Merusk
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Reply #113 on: December 21, 2011, 09:50:30 AM

What Murdoc said.  Its range also seems to be flaky and depending on how you've positioned the boss you can be a long-ass ways from the doorway the adds spawn in.

Trying to move closer to the entrance also puts you at risk of being punted over a wall and into a shitload of mobs you wouldn't otherwise kill.  Fucking knockbacks.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
Sky
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Reply #114 on: December 21, 2011, 10:59:06 AM

Yeah, it can be flaky. I had some trouble during some FP boss with waves, luckily they were pretty easy mobs so I just told dps to burn the waves as they came, they could "offtank" them easy enough (I don't even think they were silvers).

Even solo, if you aggro a second linked group it can get flaky about targeting between groups. That's what DFA and flamethrowers are for! 
Fordel
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Reply #115 on: December 21, 2011, 03:22:02 PM

You should be able to use Flamethrower on cooldown without any issue.  It's one of the big reasons I spec into Advanced Tools, I kept finding I wanted to use FlameThrower more and it was still on cooldown.

Flamethrower will actually "generate" resources when tied with Thermal Sensor Override ( http://www.torhead.com/ability/9dt1Cla ), since you regen continuously even during channels. You don't use the TSO to open, you use it when you would be 'low', the same way you use vent heat.

It's also why Shoulder Slam exists, it's a no heat ability that lets you regen while still laying down some law. Your AE taunt can be used in a similar fashion, giving you a regen window. Heck don't be afraid to regular taunt, that's also Heat-Free.

Your Basic attack augmented by IonCell is a lot meaner then you'd think, don't be afraid to lean on it more too.

Stay away Missile Blast, it's a piece of shit that stops being useful past level 10.

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Sky
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Reply #116 on: December 21, 2011, 04:33:45 PM

As he talks about a slew of abilities I don't have :p

Agreed on missile blast. That needs some love.
Teleku
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Reply #117 on: December 21, 2011, 04:40:24 PM

Hmm, think this will be my secondary class to play after my consular.  I made a small Japanese school girl looking Bounty Hunter named Teleka for my Dark Side character.  Somebody invite me into BC!   why so serious?

"My great-grandfather did not travel across four thousand miles of the Atlantic Ocean to see this nation overrun by immigrants.  He did it because he killed a man back in Ireland. That's the rumor."
-Stephen Colbert
Fordel
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Reply #118 on: December 21, 2011, 08:56:38 PM

As he talks about a slew of abilities I don't have :p

Agreed on missile blast. That needs some love.


You get them when you need them, I didn't actually use them for 'realz' till like 45.

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Ingmar
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Reply #119 on: December 21, 2011, 11:50:07 PM

Presumably missile blast is better for non-tank specs that have points that affect it?

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Evildrider
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Reply #120 on: December 21, 2011, 11:51:13 PM

They need to switch/change the animation for Tracer Missle.  It looks like I'm farting a missle out.   swamp poop
Fordel
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Reply #121 on: December 21, 2011, 11:57:07 PM

Presumably missile blast is better for non-tank specs that have points that affect it?


If they do I can't find it.

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Sky
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Reply #122 on: December 21, 2011, 11:57:26 PM

 Heart Mako's lvl 29 upgrades. CC and a big heal. Hell yeah.

Now if they'll just fix the companion toolbar bug so she stops nuking...

Trying a new keyboard layout. I've always used # keys and alt-# keys, with ctrl-# being pet stuff. I put taunt on Q, stun on E, flamethrower on F and flame sweep on shift-F. Forgot I did it when running heroics :P but after that it works beautiful. Wish I had come up with that years ago.
Draegan
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Reply #123 on: December 22, 2011, 01:37:02 PM

Oooh, I just hit 28 and now I can't wait.

On another note, I was planning on going Bodyguard (healing) when I get Blizz, but I've been thinking of going healing and just pick up a DPS companion.  I just don't know if Gault is good enough for deeps.
Zetor
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Reply #124 on: December 22, 2011, 02:10:35 PM

Heart Mako's lvl 29 upgrades. CC and a big heal. Hell yeah.
Just a warning (assuming that the electro-stasis ability is the same as Elara's carbonite ray): be sure to turn autocast off for that CC if you're fighting srs bsns elites or bosses. She'll basically try to cast it on cooldown and channel it for 8 seconds... during which she won't cast any heals and you might die. OTOH it's pretty handy on autocast otherwise, as it serves as a ghetto interrupt on non-cc-immune enemies.

Sky
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Reply #125 on: December 22, 2011, 05:44:38 PM

Yeah, I'm on to her tricks.

So to speak.
Dark_MadMax
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Reply #126 on: December 23, 2011, 02:00:56 PM

Man I rolled new alt  - merc BH, played to 18. Its so disgustingly faceroll its not even funny. Crazy damage and crazy heals, topped with healing companion. I can solo minibosses 2 levels higher than me.  And I thought sith assassin is faceroll... I kinda think a lot of this is because healing is just too good and BH gets healing companion right of the bat. But you also do crazy aoe damage even when healers specced.
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Reply #127 on: December 24, 2011, 12:42:46 AM

I'm heal specced at 32, and find Mako to be a better all arounder than Gault, though he rocks when it's single pull/boss stuff. His aoe is kinda meh, turn that off and set him to sniper and he makes a decent dps/tank for me to heal.

Also, solo'd the DK World Boss, 3 BOE purples and 3k in cred. Took 22minutes, Mako spent the whole time cowering like we were facing a Nazgul in LotRO. I think 2 people ~30 could farm him pretty easily for twinkage and AH fodder purpz.
Azuredream
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Reply #128 on: December 24, 2011, 12:26:33 PM

I could've sworn The First had an enrage mechanic (as in, take 15+ minutes to kill me and I start eating you), is that not true or is it not much of an enrage?

The Lord of the Land approaches..
Tannhauser
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Reply #129 on: December 24, 2011, 02:06:11 PM

I'm heal specced at 32, and find Mako to be a better all arounder than Gault, though he rocks when it's single pull/boss stuff. His aoe is kinda meh, turn that off and set him to sniper and he makes a decent dps/tank for me to heal.

Also, solo'd the DK World Boss, 3 BOE purples and 3k in cred. Took 22minutes, Mako spent the whole time cowering like we were facing a Nazgul in LotRO. I think 2 people ~30 could farm him pretty easily for twinkage and AH fodder purpz.

Interesting.  I am heal-specced Merc as well and struggled with Mako.  Now that I have Gault, yeah he's more fragile, but I have an easier time of it.
rattran
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Reply #130 on: December 25, 2011, 01:40:35 AM

Keeping Mako (or likely any of the companions) in good gear seems to be key. Stacking lots of cunning helps, set her as focus target, and pop enough heals to keep her up, flame to pull stuff off her as needed. Gault chews through lower toughness stuff so he's good for when you start overleveling a planet. Torian so far jumps around and knocks things out of range, or into other groups, then Jumps them. Which is teh sux.

And I'm too small for Blizz still. But once I have him, look out galaxy.
Draegan
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Reply #131 on: December 27, 2011, 12:25:30 PM

BLIZZ CAN'T COME SOON ENOUGH.

/sign level 34 Arsenal Merc that wants to go healing
Sky
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Reply #132 on: December 27, 2011, 01:42:55 PM

The funny thing is, despite Mako being the obvious choice for a tank spec from a gaming perspective....she actually really compliments the way I play my BH and feels very natural to have as a sidekick. The little 'who's this new guy' when Gault joins is spot-on. But a part of me is sad that Blizz is basically not going to work for my spec.

I should probably try to work out rotations for Gault, I only used him just after I got him until they let me have Mako back. He's an awesome UT slave, though :)
rattran
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Reply #133 on: December 27, 2011, 02:37:01 PM

I messed with and geared up Gault and Torian. Torian I can't find a use for at all, he's not tough enough to tank, and doesn't contribute enough damage to make killing faster. Gault shines for clearing trash.
Tannhauser
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Reply #134 on: December 29, 2011, 03:11:29 PM

I've been running Gault for a while now.  Yeah, he's a good overall companion, especially for my heal spec.  Also enjoy his quips, great voice acting. 
Sjofn
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Reply #135 on: December 30, 2011, 04:17:22 AM

Played my little healing trooper dude up to level 13 (gasp!) and he's pretty fun so far. I like their resource mechanic. Maybe I'll make Ingmar duo his IA with my foxy BH lady once we're ready to Empire it for a change of pace.  why so serious?

God Save the Horn Players
Merusk
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Reply #136 on: December 30, 2011, 05:55:23 AM

I messed with and geared up Gault and Torian. Torian I can't find a use for at all, he's not tough enough to tank, and doesn't contribute enough damage to make killing faster. Gault shines for clearing trash.


What spec?  I'm finding Torian helps me kill mobs below elite a lot quicker than keeping Mako out as Tank Spec. Plus when you run in to 2 strongs he can tank one while you take the other.  Gault is good once I start outleveling a planet, but Torian was better for at-level stuff without having to micro-manage Sniper & Assault modes.

On the other hand.. he keeps his mouth shut a lot more than Mako or Gault, making the cutscenes a little drier.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
Draegan
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Reply #137 on: December 30, 2011, 07:32:45 AM

I'm about to get Torian.  How is killing speed with him and you healing vs. Arsenal spec and Mako healing?
Threash
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Reply #138 on: December 30, 2011, 09:51:26 AM

Can you get orange mandalorian armor somewhere?

I am the .00000001428%
Draegan
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Reply #139 on: December 30, 2011, 09:55:05 AM

Can you get orange mandalorian armor somewhere?

I'm still looking but I'm still 36.
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