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Author Topic: Good, Bad, I'm the guy with the gun. [Trooper/BH Mechanics]  (Read 24007 times)
rattran
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Reply #140 on: December 30, 2011, 12:03:31 PM

Full Bodyguard Merc. Tank spec I'm sure is entirely different. I found it too easy to peel a mob off Torian just tossing a heal on him, and chaff doesn't seem to work with companions, just other players. Skadge just got burned down fast, with more armor, shield, and hp than Blizz he'd die faster while doing less damage.

Mako really likes putting her stun beam on immune mobs, and keeping it going for it's whole duration. Something to keep in mind.
Sky
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Reply #141 on: December 30, 2011, 01:20:24 PM

If you're using Mako as a medic, turn off all her attacks. She still has a decent base attack (if you give her a decent gun, obviously). Sometimes when clearing normal groups, I'll turn it back on for her because it can be handy. But 99% of the time I turn the channeled ability off, along with her other offensives.

My main gripe with Mako is that she won't close to proper range for healing, so learn the ranges for her heals. She'll only close to the furthest range she can auto-attack the target mob. So if she's behind you and you DFA then Jet Charge, you can end up out of range of her healing and she won't heal you. Worse if she gets stuck on a piece of terrain, had that happen once on a champ mob I couldn't grapple closer to Mako. Wish you could grapple your companion into range  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

sam, an eggplant
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Reply #142 on: December 30, 2011, 01:33:28 PM

I don't know if you need to turn off all Mako's attacks, but I would definitely turn off her 8-second incapacitate, since it's channeled.
Ingmar
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Reply #143 on: December 30, 2011, 01:37:03 PM

Turning them all off would just be slowing yourself down, yeah, just the channel is plenty.

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Zetor
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Reply #144 on: December 30, 2011, 02:55:03 PM

I keep turning the incapacitate attack off for Elara (trooper Mako-equivalent, see last page), but for some reason it keeps turning back on when I zone or (dis)mount. It's a hassle, but keeping it on is actually ok against most enemies -- it either acts as a ghetto interrupt, or it's broken immediately and she stops channeling it anyway.

Merusk
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Reply #145 on: December 30, 2011, 03:13:51 PM

Can you get orange mandalorian armor somewhere?

I'm still looking but I'm still 36.

The chest piece you get to choose at an early one of the class quests is the most Mandalorian armor I've seen.  (Even has the sigil on the left arm)  There's no Fett-esque pieces if that's what you're after, because in KOTOR the Manalorians look similar but not exactly like him.   For the helms I've seen one on the PVP vendor that looks fairly close to what the NPCs wear.

I can't get past the panties - Alluvian
I really like the cocks. - Lantyssa
People rarely believe just how good I am at sucking. - Lantyssa
I love the swinging dongs - Signe
sam, an eggplant
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Reply #146 on: December 30, 2011, 03:34:20 PM

I keep turning the incapacitate attack off for Elara (trooper Mako-equivalent, see last page), but for some reason it keeps turning back on when I zone or (dis)mount.
Yeah, this is a bug. Randomly Mako leaves healing stance on me. She doesn't go into DPS stance either, she ends up in no stance at all. Pretty annoying.
Merusk
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Reply #147 on: December 30, 2011, 04:48:00 PM

BH Storyline; Quesh:


I can't get past the panties - Alluvian
I really like the cocks. - Lantyssa
People rarely believe just how good I am at sucking. - Lantyssa
I love the swinging dongs - Signe
Fordel
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Reply #148 on: December 30, 2011, 05:53:15 PM

Just leave the Channel CC on Mako/Elara, at worst it's a random stun, but it usually catches and interrupts a mobs initial cast on the start of any pull. They'll also cycle it across multiple mobs pretty well and it really adds quite a bit of mitigation overall. Just turn it off for stun immune shit or they'll go full retard and spam it doing nothing else. I almost never actually use it for it's max duration CC potential.

There's also no point in turning off their special attacks either, they simply don't have enough heal abilities to fill all the time anyways.

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Tannhauser
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Reply #149 on: December 30, 2011, 11:23:11 PM

I have found a bug where if I put a Kolto Shell on my companion it removes it from me.  Lost a couple of tough fights because I didn't realize it.

Otherwise KS is a great great skill (Merc/Bodyguard).

The real surprise for me is how useful the flamethrower is.  Love it.
rattran
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Reply #150 on: December 31, 2011, 02:13:35 AM

Kolto Shell can only be on 1 person at a time. Says so in the description.

As for Quesh:
Sky
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Reply #151 on: December 31, 2011, 12:41:14 PM


Draegan
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Reply #152 on: December 31, 2011, 04:53:47 PM

Just started to play with torain as a tank and me as a bodyguard.  Works real well using focus target a mb5 to auto targt focus targt with heals.  I heal myself and him while doing more Dps than mano so things move fast.  I just need to gear him up better.
Tannhauser
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Reply #153 on: December 31, 2011, 06:46:38 PM

That's my current combo as well.  Send him in to clump them up and *Boom* drop the aoe hammer. He's pretty fragile though so yeah, needs gear.
Evildrider
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Reply #154 on: January 01, 2012, 04:43:45 AM

As a level 50 Merc in pvp, I love the Pyrotech tree.   awesome, for real
Merusk
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Reply #155 on: January 01, 2012, 08:38:19 AM

As a level 50 Merc in pvp, I love the Pyrotech tree.   awesome, for real

Yeah considering the PVP gear is called "Pyrotech" I figured it was the ++PVP Tree.  Haven't tested it yet, though.


"Most Wanted" Spoiler:

I can't get past the panties - Alluvian
I really like the cocks. - Lantyssa
People rarely believe just how good I am at sucking. - Lantyssa
I love the swinging dongs - Signe
Zetor
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Reply #156 on: January 01, 2012, 08:56:27 AM

There are sets for all specs... on republic side there's Combat Medic's xxx (healing spec commando), Combat Tech's xxx (damage spec commando), Eliminator's xxx (damage spec vanguard), and Supercommando's xxx (tank spec vanguard).

IMO arsenal / gunnery is better for pvp, since it has insane burst -- it is very reliant on being able to chaincast tracer missile / grav round, but it can kill a target in seconds if not interrupted. Pyrotech is more mobile though and may be better if you aren't getting support / healing / guard from your teammates.

Fordel
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Reply #157 on: January 01, 2012, 03:08:01 PM

Yea, I was regularly guarding this Commando in the door assault/defense map and he was killing shit so ridiculously fast as long as I kept things off him. It was literally like 3-5 casts per target.

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Draegan
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Reply #158 on: January 03, 2012, 10:48:54 AM

Ok I did some experimenting with Blizz vs. Mako yesterday, and I have to say Bliizz is awful.

I sent him out against two Silvers and me healing and I could barely keep him up, and he did pretty low damage.  It became a pain in the ass to play.  And slow.  I died more during those few hours than I ever did up to level 40.

Got Mako back up, went full Arsenal and things just died around me with much better survivability. 

Maybe I'm doing something wrong playing a Bodyguard (heals) but they seem pretty weakish.  1.5s heal for 700-800, 2s heal for 1000-200.  A reactionary shield that heals for 400  that triggers once every 6 seconds.  And an AOE missile that heals for 400 that instant.  I didn't get the instant heal at the top of the tree though.

Perhaps Blizz's gear is terrible when you first get him, but I stuck some implants, earpieces and a hat on him to flesh him out (all good heavy armor) and nothing really made a difference.

Oh well, heatseeker missiles are amazing, and sounds awesome.
rattran
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Reply #159 on: January 03, 2012, 01:08:29 PM

Kolto Shell (the 10 reactionary heals) is good, the 2 heals are better with points/heat reduction in them, but the 31pt heal is the best Mercs get. All the companions seem to have pretty meh gear when you get them, I find Blizz better at tanking than Skadge or certainly Torian, and better for 2silver or 1gold 1 silver fights than Mako. I still pull out Mako for tougher champions, like the Avatar of Sul-mak-whatever on Voss, but Blizz is my normal companion.

I think for soloing, dps and Mako is the best way to go, but without dual-specs I wanted to get used to the healing, makes it easier to fill that role in groups. Skadge has the same "I'm going to block your screen, have fun with the shitty non-manual targetting" problem Khem has.
Sky
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Reply #160 on: January 03, 2012, 01:27:55 PM

I keep Mako in RE'd blues from armormech. I'm just about at the point where it makes sense trying to RE to purple for each slot now (hitting cap level recipes). I can generally do a -2 champ without breaking much of a sweat as long as I remember to use my interrupts. There was one tough champ that had a crazy missile blast or something, but most are pretty easy. My gear isn't the greatest, mostly purples but not always the purple I'd want for the slot, and still a few greens for things like relics and implants, blue belt and gloves. Anyway, with a tank spec, it's pretty much Mako and that's that.

Tab targeting works great for me 95% of the time, and when it doesn't it usually because of adds the game considers in a different grouping. As with most complaints, that one surprised me.

Draegan
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Reply #161 on: January 03, 2012, 02:00:39 PM

Kolto Shell (the 10 reactionary heals) is good, the 2 heals are better with points/heat reduction in them, but the 31pt heal is the best Mercs get. All the companions seem to have pretty meh gear when you get them, I find Blizz better at tanking than Skadge or certainly Torian, and better for 2silver or 1gold 1 silver fights than Mako. I still pull out Mako for tougher champions, like the Avatar of Sul-mak-whatever on Voss, but Blizz is my normal companion.

I think for soloing, dps and Mako is the best way to go, but without dual-specs I wanted to get used to the healing, makes it easier to fill that role in groups. Skadge has the same "I'm going to block your screen, have fun with the shitty non-manual targetting" problem Khem has.

At level 40 I thought kolto shell was pretty meh.  I guess I have to outfit blizz in better gear. 
Tannhauser
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Reply #162 on: January 03, 2012, 03:00:24 PM

As Bodyguard spec Gault was best vs. Champs.  I'd tank and heal myself and he dps'ed away.  I normally solo'ed with Torian.
Today I switched to Arsenal and Blizz is the best tank and his taunts lock down the enemy while I dps away.  I may bring Mako back out, but she needs some gear updating. She might be good healing me as I use Arsenal to shot down elites.

Fordel
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Reply #163 on: January 03, 2012, 03:02:15 PM

The default gear probably isn't good enough for the companion tanks out of the box. I want to say you'll want to stack the shit out of shield rating and absorb on your companion tanks to really get them tanky.

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Zetor
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Reply #164 on: January 04, 2012, 03:15:00 PM

Random question to the high-level / level 50 vanguards/PTs out there: is it just me, or is energy blast / heat blast (the 31-point shield ability) really, really, really bad? It barely does more damage than my hammer shot autoattack, regenerates a very small amount of ammo/heat, and has a short range to boot. I ended up speccing 30/11/0 instead to pick up Gut from the assault tree -- it gives me a very energy-efficient DOT that's useful in tanking, soloing and especially in pvp. A 15-second bleed is absolutely awesome for preventing caps or for keeping people unable to regen... it's also good damage against armored targets.

So yeah, am I overlooking something or is Energy/Heat Blast kind of not-very-useful?
« Last Edit: January 04, 2012, 03:17:27 PM by Zetor »

Sky
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Reply #165 on: January 04, 2012, 03:47:40 PM

PvP throws a whole wrench into things, where I'd actually use up a dual spec (if they implement it that limited instead of 3 or 4) on a pvp spec, because i'd need at least 6 points or so.

But yeah, Heat Blast is somewhat lame. But, it is more than Rapid Shot and does vent a bit of heat, it's slightly better than Flame Burst (which is hot to use). I'd like to see some reduction on the CD, an increase in dmg OR heat dissipation. Also, it REALLY needs to proc Combust like Flame Burst/Sweep to fit in properly as the Flame Burst alternative for pure PTs in a higher heat scenario. Right now, it fits in the rotation when heat is getting up over 30% and I'd miss it if it were gone. For the 31pt skill, it's lacking.

I can see putting Retractable Blade in there, but 16 is a bit hot vs both the heat dissipated through the GCD cycle (you're not spending heat to activate) and the bit gained back. Dunno. If I'm getting hammered on pretty well (good reason for shieldtechs to favor shield/absorb over defense imo), I'm venting heat pretty good already from my shields.

If I were concerned about armored targets, I'd load up rail shot...which I'd lean on like crazy in pvp too (instant activation).

Threash
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Reply #166 on: January 04, 2012, 06:51:50 PM

Random question to the high-level / level 50 vanguards/PTs out there: is it just me, or is energy blast / heat blast (the 31-point shield ability) really, really, really bad? It barely does more damage than my hammer shot autoattack, regenerates a very small amount of ammo/heat, and has a short range to boot. I ended up speccing 30/11/0 instead to pick up Gut from the assault tree -- it gives me a very energy-efficient DOT that's useful in tanking, soloing and especially in pvp. A 15-second bleed is absolutely awesome for preventing caps or for keeping people unable to regen... it's also good damage against armored targets.

So yeah, am I overlooking something or is Energy/Heat Blast kind of not-very-useful?

I'm not even planning to go that high, 21/2/18 is what i plan on using for pvp.  Shielding refreshes rocket punch, rocket punch and flame burst refresh rail shot, rail shot hits like a fucking truck and you vent 8 heat on shielding and rail shots.

I am the .00000001428%
Fordel
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Reply #167 on: January 04, 2012, 07:00:19 PM

It's lame but required, as it's heat/ammo return keeps you in the 4 pip regen zone for far longer then you would first guess. It's easier to see how it works on the Trooper, with only 12 units of ammo total.

It amounts to an extra attack, not counting itself.


and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Zetor
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Reply #168 on: January 05, 2012, 12:10:06 AM

Ideally I'd want a build that works in pve too  awesome, for real and I don't think you can skimp on 10% non-DR shield chance for a pve tanking build. I'm very wary about putting points in the third tree, since a lot of it ends up wasted on plasma cell (which I don't use).

The issue with Energy Blast is really a combination of things. I'd be fine with it if it had at least 2 of the following:
- at least a 30y range to put it on par with our autoattack
- proc ion cell
- do additional threat
- do at least as much damage as that spammable ion blast thing
- restore 2x as much ammo/heat

In pve tanking I end up bursting abilities a lot at the start to frontload threat, and Spare Energy Cell / Recharge Cells is much better for that. Energy Blast is a threat loss in exchange for half an attack's worth of energy on a 15sec cooldown (compared to hammer shot which does MORE damage with the ion proc, snares people, has a longer range, procs ion and has no cooldown)... yech.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2012, 12:19:13 AM by Zetor »

Sky
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Reply #169 on: January 05, 2012, 09:05:33 AM

But it's not on par with the auto-attack. It's more in line with Flame Burst, which is a high heat ability with better dmg than Rapid Shot and also can put Combust on a target. Not sure what Troops get that's like combust (debuff damage output of target by 4%/sec), but that's what it really needs to sit in the rotation properly, because I find it's the replacement when in a high heat scenario. With low heat, it's better to use Flame Burst for the debuff.

Threat...I don't even want to talk about that. Keeping low heat I can't keep shit for threat if Blizz is around, or even with a Sith tank.

kildorn
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Reply #170 on: January 05, 2012, 09:11:51 AM

So out of curiosity: is the combat log secretly turned off just because things like Ion Cell appear to not have any relation to their tooltip data? :P

"Randomly procs a 120 damage elemental attack!" *hits for 31*
Zetor
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Reply #171 on: January 05, 2012, 09:21:53 AM

Flame Burst is the BH version of Ion Pulse ('spammable ion thing'), right? Part of the reason Energy / Heat Blast is so bad is that it doesn't get any ranks (unlike ion pulse / flame burst), so it does less than 2/3 of Ion Burst damage at 50... and indeed, less damage than the autoattack when you factor in the ion proc. The ammo gain is very situational and not that significant. I get a lot more consistent / reliable ammo from the "if your shield absorbs damage, you gain 1 cell - this can only occur once every 6 seconds" talent. If I wanted to drop the 5 points on the top of the shield tree (I don't, though - 10% shield chance seems to be huge for tanking), I could go deep into the third tree and get access to some procs that make my hardest-hitting abilities free to use.

Re threat - there are no 'high threat' abilities that I can see (except for the taunts and pulls), we just get a 50% threat bonus on all damage we do. So to get a good threat lead on an enemy I need to stockstrike, ion pulse, high impact bolt, stockstrike again (should've reset by now).. against multi-targets add in pulse cannon, sticky grenade, and maybe some of that PBAOE explosion. After I have the initial threat lead, I can take it easy(er) and mix in a lot more hammer shots to let my ammo regen. Heat/Energy Blast doesn't fit in there, since the damage/threat it produces is sad and I'm rarely ammo-starved in the first place.

Energy/Heat Blast is just really really bad for a 31-pointer and needs a lot of lovin'. I'd be fine with any two things on my list, really!  awesome, for real


edit to kildorn: Yeah, tooltip for ion cell is bugged. I assume it actually did do that much damage in beta, but they nerfed it. Honestly it'd be kind of ridiculous if it did the damage on the tooltip... and I'd love it!  why so serious? This also means that talents improving the damage of ion cell aren't as hot as they look at first.

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Reply #172 on: January 05, 2012, 09:22:48 AM

Ion Pulse is the Trooper equivalent. Also the only way I can really keep single-target threat on an enemy with a shitload of HP (like a boss) is to really lay into them heavy and burn up my Recharge Cells/whatever skill right off so I have a comfortable head start I can maintain. The talent that sometimes resets the CD on stockstrike (rocket punch for BH) can make maintaining threat trivial if it procs multiple times however.

If bosses have a lot of knockbacks/stuns however, ugh. If my Ion Cannon (Flamethrower) gets interrupted right off it just fucks up my world.

"The world is populated in the main by people who should not exist." - George Bernard Shaw
Sky
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Reply #173 on: January 05, 2012, 09:52:59 AM

Flame Burst is the BH version of Ion Pulse ('spammable ion thing'), right? Part of the reason Energy / Heat Blast is so bad is that it doesn't get any ranks (unlike ion pulse / flame burst), so it does less than 2/3 of Ion Burst damage at 50... and indeed, less damage than the autoattack when you factor in the ion proc. The ammo gain is very situational and not that significant. I get a lot more consistent / reliable ammo from the "if your shield absorbs damage, you gain 1 cell - this can only occur once every 6 seconds" talent. If I wanted to drop the 5 points on the top of the shield tree (I don't, though - 10% shield chance seems to be huge for tanking), I could go deep into the third tree and get access to some procs that make my hardest-hitting abilities free to use.

Re threat - there are no 'high threat' abilities that I can see (except for the taunts and pulls), we just get a 50% threat bonus on all damage we do. So to get a good threat lead on an enemy I need to stockstrike, ion pulse, high impact bolt, stockstrike again (should've reset by now).. against multi-targets add in pulse cannon, sticky grenade, and maybe some of that PBAOE explosion. After I have the initial threat lead, I can take it easy(er) and mix in a lot more hammer shots to let my ammo regen. Heat/Energy Blast doesn't fit in there, since the damage/threat it produces is sad and I'm rarely ammo-starved in the first place.

Energy/Heat Blast is just really really bad for a 31-pointer and needs a lot of lovin'. I'd be fine with any two things on my list, really!  awesome, for real
Dropping 5 points in shieldtech would be crazy, look at what you just said about venting heat/gaining ammo on shielding! I've decided to pretty much drop defense in priority up to the soft cap for shielding (whatever that is, for now I just stack as much shield/absorb as I can iirc I'm around 34/38) because it's blocking the chance for shielding which means more heat buildup and less Rocket Punching. Against a fast dps mob, I will be shielding so much I'm constantly dropping heat and Rocket Punch is almost always up.

Threat/rotation: I open with DFA if it's up. Jet Charge into a spot to line up flamethrower for groups. Otherwise Jet Charge in, Rocket Punch, Rail Shot, Explosive Dart (even against single targets, good damage), then get situational. If I use my Flamethrower or do a Flame Sweep here, I'm going to need Flame Blast to mitigate some of the heat. It works especially good after Flame Sweep because Flame Burst doesn't combust. The core rotation though is Rocket Punch/Rail Shot/Explosive Dart, though that really only becomes a 'rotation' when grinding through a lot of silver mobs, everything is pretty situational which is cool). If I don't need to do much interrupting or use my flame abilities, I don't need Flame Burst. If I use any of the flame-based stuff, I need all the venting I can get.

I agree it needs lovin'. And it only needs ONE thing from my list, so neener! Although I'll steal threat from your list and say it should be high threat plus one from the list. Help a tanker out.

Sky
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Reply #174 on: January 05, 2012, 10:09:32 AM

You know, now that I'm looking things over with 44 levels of experience behind me...I'm starting to think about tweaking my build a bit toward rail shot, since it's my #2 ability in terms of damage and priority. Obviously, Rocket Punch is the buttered bread, but seeing that my core 'rotation' or maybe better phrased as my three highest priority abilities are not flame based, losing 6% on those to gain 6% on the #2 ability (that's always up after RP which procs Ion every time) might be worth it. The biggest impact would seem to be against groups of normals where I'm using Flame Sweep and Flamethrower more consistently, and even then DFA is kinetic.

Hmm.

(removing 2/3 pts from Intimidation and putting them into Rail Loaders)

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