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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  Star Wars: The Old Republic  |  Topic: Good, Bad, I'm the guy with the gun. [Trooper/BH Mechanics] 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: Good, Bad, I'm the guy with the gun. [Trooper/BH Mechanics]  (Read 22818 times)
Sky
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Reply #35 on: December 05, 2011, 11:47:38 AM

Playing around with the calculator, my initial thought for a Powertech tank.

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Reply #36 on: December 05, 2011, 11:54:56 AM

Playing around with the calculator, my initial thought for a Powertech tank.

I really have no interest in any single talent tree on any class. Seriously, some of those talents just leave me feeling "what the fuck is the point?"

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Reply #37 on: December 05, 2011, 12:01:47 PM

Hm.. is that much aim really worth the talent points? I haven't looked up the number-crunching to see how mandatory a stat it is.

I'm also curious about Iron Fist vs Cardio Package.  More HPs always seems like a good idea as a tank vs more damage, particularly when it's a % and not a straightup stat bonus.

This is what I was thinking.

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Reply #38 on: December 05, 2011, 12:49:05 PM

Has anyone done some real EJ-style number crunching on SWTOR period? It's probably going to end up being needed since these talent trees are "Meh" incarnate.

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Sky
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Reply #39 on: December 05, 2011, 01:59:08 PM

Hm.. is that much aim really worth the talent points? I haven't looked up the number-crunching to see how mandatory a stat it is.

I'm also curious about Iron Fist vs Cardio Package.  More HPs always seems like a good idea as a tank vs more damage, particularly when it's a % and not a straightup stat bonus.

This is what I was thinking.
9% more of class stat vs 3% more hp? Mm. Rocket Punch is the bread and butter, and is going to be setting up your rail shot with Ion Overload. I guess you could make a case for 3% health, but I would counter that anywhere it would matter you won't need it (because you should have good healing backing you up).

I'd take 6% aim over No Escape unless I was on a pvp server (then I'd want both).

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Reply #40 on: December 05, 2011, 02:03:55 PM

My guess is that you'll want the health. Every bit counts usually in these games.

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Sky
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Reply #41 on: December 05, 2011, 02:32:34 PM

My guess is that you'll want the health. Every bit counts usually in these games.
Yeah, I was thinking about that. I would still keep 2 in Steely Resolve (+aim), shifting the third point over to +end. What's a level 50 BH HP total, would 3% even matter? I mean, that's a measly 30 hps per 1000, I still lean toward thinking that if that's going to make or break the group, you've got bigger issues.

Then again, depending on how much aim adds to dps, you might be better off with the rocket punch buff (though you need the 2pt to climb the tree).

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Reply #42 on: December 05, 2011, 02:35:44 PM

Well I don't know how it specifically plays out in SWTOR, but it could pretty easily be that 3% of tank-sized HP pool makes for a much bigger/more useful number than 6% of tank-level dps.

That said when you're not doing bleeding-edge content it usually works out in your favor to cut survivability corners to kill stuff faster, so I can definitely see a non-raid oriented spec going for more aim.

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Reply #43 on: December 05, 2011, 02:49:47 PM

The 3% Endurance is pretty horse shit.

Everyone is over looking Advanced Tools, bringing FlameThrower/Pulse Cannon down to 15 second cooldown from 18 and Harpoon/Grapple down to 35 are both far far more useful then whatever 3% endurance will net you.



My only question is do I max the +Aim talent for 9%, or put two points in for 6% then put 1 point into ProtoType Cylinders for +8% to ion cylinder damage. A lot of our dps and threat ends up coming from Ion there... but I don't have logs either way to math it out. I currently lean towards maxing the +aim for the 9% if only because I hate having half finished talents.

http://db.darthhater.com/skill_calc/bounty_hunter/powertech/#::e2fe10fe3fe2fe2f12ef21

http://www.torhead.com/calculator/skill#801GoGrdorogzZMcbM.1



and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Sky
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Reply #44 on: December 05, 2011, 03:01:48 PM

No, I was thinking about Advanced Tools. I'm just not sure how much grapple would come into play.

I forgot Prototype Cylinders! Given Ion Overload and Supercharged Ion Gas, the DoT is going to be proc'ing a lot, which also sets up rail shot pretty well. I'd still lean toward the +8% from Iron Fist over the +6% from Rail Loaders, because I imagine Rocket Punch's damage will be much more reliable even with the DoT triggers. You're losing 3s assuming you could fire both skills off back to back (RP is 9s, so 2xRS in 18s vs RS @ 15s CD), say conservative RP @ 479-517 and RS @ 624-817, so the (almost) 2 RPs plus the 8% talent would stack that damage high, pushing RS into more of a 'waiting for RP CD' slot despite its higher base dmg.

Dunno, just started poking around the numbers :)

Well I don't know how it specifically plays out in SWTOR, but it could pretty easily be that 3% of tank-sized HP pool makes for a much bigger/more useful number than 6% of tank-level dps.
Good point, but I'm wondering about that 3%, since it's to endurance. I wonder how that scales with hp and other buffs.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2011, 03:03:32 PM by Sky »

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Reply #45 on: December 05, 2011, 03:12:55 PM

S'why I was looking at it, it's very likely to be broken with buffs etc are taken into account.  Previous experience tells me noob devs overlook that sort of stat-stacking so you're likely to get a big HP pool for a good long while.   I recall WoW being that way through BC.

Keep the discussion on other stuff going. I wasn't sure which high-end and off-tier talents to truly take, as I usually just plan for them but make final decisions based off of how the class is actually playing for me.   I know there were one or two times I skipped some "mandatory" talents in WOW because "fuck, I'm never in that situation and this one over here is much more useful to how I actually play."

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Reply #46 on: December 05, 2011, 03:31:18 PM

You use Harpoon/Grapple all the time while tanking, this is a game where more then half the mobs are ranged and the other half have knockback. Being able to move mobs around for better positioning is key. You don't always have a wall to LoS with for easy grouping. If nothing else it's another taunt ability you have available.

Plus you can troll the Jedi that just charged into the mob by pulling it to you and making him run back  why so serious?



Rail Loaders is not for tanking, it's a off spec talent for Pyrotech's. I spec Puncture only because I need to put 3 points into that tree anyways to reach Power Armor and Advanced tools. Rail Shot itself is just downtime filler between RocketPunches and FlameThrowers when you have spare ammo. RP+RS is a nice little combo, but you'll RP 3 times as often due to Flame Shield. Rail Shot does have the side benefit of being 30 meters, so for the times when you actually really range tank something, you have a little extra kick.

Ion Overload is pretty much all the DoT you'll ever need for setting up Rail Shot.

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
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Reply #47 on: December 05, 2011, 05:22:34 PM

Has anyone done some real EJ-style number crunching on SWTOR period? It's probably going to end up being needed since these talent trees are "Meh" incarnate.

I have no idea how up to date this is: http://sithwarrior.com/forums/Thread-SWTOR-formula-list
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Reply #48 on: December 09, 2011, 12:39:42 PM

So since I'm planning out characters, has anyone futzed with assault spec troopers? I was leaning towards an assault vanguard for an amusement alt.
Sky
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Reply #49 on: December 09, 2011, 01:28:21 PM

I'm planning on a dps commando as my first alt, but I haven't really looked them over. I might roll a guardian instead, dunno.

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Reply #50 on: December 09, 2011, 03:49:22 PM

I am not in this game yet, but in EVERY diku model, hit points for tanks are incredibly important.  DKP bidding wars for gear with an incremental 50hps on a character with 6,000hps are not uncommon in diku history.  Maybe it is better served with gear over talents in SWTOR, but in the end, 10hps on your tanks can mean the difference between winning a raid or not.

Tanks that go for DPS always have to respec later of they want to be primary tanks.  Raid mobs are almost always balanced by the devs around players HPs and threat generation strategies.  I find it hard to believe this game will be different.

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Reply #51 on: December 09, 2011, 03:54:41 PM

10 dps can also make the difference; I've played tanks for years and there are almost always some spots where you can make a concession to a DPS stat and be better off over all. There's always a balance point where it is worth it to take a small survivability hit if you're getting a large throughput boost in return - especially if threat is a concern. An example would be there were certain patch cycles where using a DPS-statted weapon as a warrior tank in WoW was such a large DPS boost that it was worth it to use over a traditional tanking weapon, for example.

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Reply #52 on: December 09, 2011, 04:13:00 PM

I'm planning to play a prototype specced powertech. I don't expect to have a lot of company in that.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2011, 04:34:29 PM by sam, an eggplant »
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Reply #53 on: December 09, 2011, 04:14:44 PM

I'm planning to play an prototype specced powertech. I don't expect to have a lot of company in that.

That's one of my current choices atm.   Ohhhhh, I see.
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Reply #54 on: December 09, 2011, 04:16:21 PM

Shield Tech ftw.

I expect Pyro and Proto to be more popular. I could be wrong.

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Reply #55 on: December 09, 2011, 04:25:33 PM

Pyro is the shared tree, all of the shared trees are the loser ones in terms of popularity in my experience. Though Pyrotech might escape that fate simply because its called PYROtech.  why so serious?


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Reply #56 on: December 09, 2011, 04:35:12 PM

The shared tree appears to be more PvP-focused. It has a lot of "when you get CC'd or stunned..." talents.
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Reply #57 on: December 09, 2011, 05:01:31 PM

The shared tree appears to be more PvP-focused. It has a lot of "when you get CC'd or stunned..." talents.

No more then the other trees though.

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Reply #58 on: December 09, 2011, 06:32:54 PM

Yeah, I was kind of expecting the common tree to be more PvP focused, but there are PvP talents sprinkled throughout the trees. I don't see any conceivable situation in which you'd want to go Assault Specialist over Tactics, though. (for a Vanguard, at least)

I suppose the argument could be DD vs. DoT damage, but it seems like the common tree seems better for Commandos overall, with how much more focused towards damage they are with their assault cannons.

But that Captain's salami tray was tight, yo. You plump for the roast pork loin, dogg?

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Sky
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Reply #59 on: December 10, 2011, 11:31:35 AM

Today's thoughts.

Hate having to put the errant point into Puncture to open tier 2 of AP.

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Reply #60 on: December 10, 2011, 03:42:08 PM

No Escape is purely a PvP talent, which maybe you're going for, just a heads up. There isn't a 'stealth' mob in the game that actually gets revealed by our stealth scan, because 'stealth' mobs don't exist till you aggro their companion mob, then they spawn in.

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Reply #61 on: December 10, 2011, 04:56:35 PM

Are you sure about that? I ran into a number of "stealthed" mobs with my smuggler, it's just that the detection range was STUPIDLY small, even with all the +detection talents. Like, I'd be in melee range and suddenly a shimmering baddie would appear but he wouldn't actually notice me. It seemed like any stealthing mob was already running all the +stealth level talents.

Unless the trooper detect ability is "shows all stealthed targets within 30m" I can't see it ever triggering in pve without having already entered the engagement range though.
Sky
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Reply #62 on: December 10, 2011, 05:11:55 PM

No Escape is purely a PvP talent, which maybe you're going for, just a heads up. There isn't a 'stealth' mob in the game that actually gets revealed by our stealth scan, because 'stealth' mobs don't exist till you aggro their companion mob, then they spawn in.
Yeah, not sure about those 2 points, might shift them back into Aim. Mostly the shift was in the off-spec, based on discussion here. I just figured if I was going to be using grapple a lot, it might be nice to have an extra effect on it. Would the positional help of the occasional quick root be better than aim?

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Reply #63 on: December 10, 2011, 05:41:04 PM

Are you sure about that? I ran into a number of "stealthed" mobs with my smuggler, it's just that the detection range was STUPIDLY small, even with all the +detection talents. Like, I'd be in melee range and suddenly a shimmering baddie would appear but he wouldn't actually notice me. It seemed like any stealthing mob was already running all the +stealth level talents.

Unless the trooper detect ability is "shows all stealthed targets within 30m" I can't see it ever triggering in pve without having already entered the engagement range though.


It's basically the same as WoW-Hunter flare, you drop it on an area and it reveals whatever is hidden.



I can confirm the spawn in behavior because the 'stealth' mobs also only ever took two ticks of Mortar Volley, instead of the full three. Like the first Round would go off and the visible mobs take damage and get knocked down, THEN the 'stealth' mobs appear and THEN they eat the second tick of damage and get knocked down too. I spent like two planets trying to reveal 'stealth' mobs with my scanner thing and it never worked in PvE. I had more then one fellow Trooper confirm it works in PvP though.



Sky- It's not really all that fantastic in PvE, the root after pull thing. Once a mob is in melee range of a player, is usually stays there, the trick being GETTING the mob into said melee range. PvP is obviously a different ball game.


I totally feel your pain on having only the 1 point in puncture and the way you specced is arguably the 'best' way, with the 10 seconds off your stun cooldown. I still put the full three into Puncture, I can't stand half empty talents. The only thing to keep in mind is around level 40+ you'll get a second stun, a PBAE on a 45 second cooldown, so you could live without those 10 seconds off the first stun cooldown.

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
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Reply #64 on: December 15, 2011, 06:37:11 AM

Mako is bipolar.  Snarky response here +40.. snarky response to a different question.. -40.   awesome, for real

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I really like the cocks. - Lantyssa
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Lantyssa
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Reply #65 on: December 15, 2011, 08:08:06 AM

It's probably not the snark she is approving of, but something else.

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Reply #66 on: December 15, 2011, 08:11:51 AM

Check her entry in the Codex and it should tell you what she likes/dislikes.
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Reply #67 on: December 15, 2011, 08:53:48 AM

Mako cannot be worse than Lizardman.

"What? You gave food to the starving orphans? -40! What, someone mentioned it later? ANOTHER -15!"

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Reply #68 on: December 15, 2011, 10:51:54 AM

Once you figure out their internal morality, it's pretty easy. Mako likes snarky, but not bullying. It can be a fine line at times, I don't sweat it too much. She approves way more than she disapproves of ol' Komoto. She just opened up her lvl 30 companion quest for me last night (I'm 18). Easy points by wanting to kill your story rival BH or asking for more money.

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Reply #69 on: December 15, 2011, 11:35:24 AM

Hm.. I didn't know about the codex thing, thanks.

I caught the 'moar money' thing easily enough.  But she was giving me lots of +15 when i was waving my ego around right up until I was talking to the Advanced Class guys and bragged.  At which point it was -40.  Wtf?

I'm hot shit, bitch. Deal!

I can't get past the panties - Alluvian
I really like the cocks. - Lantyssa
People rarely believe just how good I am at sucking. - Lantyssa
I love the swinging dongs - Signe
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