Command & Conquer Generals 2 (was mysterious Bioware/C&C thread)

[Velorath]

They may be well regarded, but Blizzard makes the RTS games that all gamers take note of.

I think that's losing sight of the original point I was making, in that Blizzard isn't dominating the RTS genre.  For the better part of a decade they didn't release any RTS games, while games like Company of Heroes were released and became critically and commercially successful.

[Malakili]

I think Relic would disagree with you.

I'mm sure they would, but I think they'd be wrong.  I'd wager that until Starcraft 2 came out more people still played both Starcraft 1 and Warcraft 3 than played any of Relic's games.  Hell, even DOTA by itself might have more players than Relic's games.

[Ingmar]

They may be well regarded, but Blizzard makes the RTS games that all gamers take note of.

I think that's losing sight of the original point I was making, in that Blizzard isn't dominating the RTS genre.  For the better part of a decade they didn't release any RTS games, while games like Company of Heroes were released and became critically and commercially successful.

And probably still had a tiny fraction of the player base that SC1 had 10 years on.

[Fordel]

I think Relic would disagree with you.

I'mm sure they would, but I think they'd be wrong.  I'd wager that until Starcraft 2 came out more people still played both Starcraft 1 and Warcraft 3 than played any of Relic's games.  Hell, even DOTA by itself might have more players than Relic's games.

Once you factor in DOTA for War3, then it's not fucking contest at all. China loves it some fucking DOTA.

[luckton]

[Sheepherder]

That is an impressively unfunny comic.

[Ingmar]

Sadly that's towards the top end for CAD.

[tgr]

Silence, infidel. CAD is awesome.

[Fordel]

It really isn't, and I read some really shitty stuff here so it's not like I have some huge standards to keep or whatever. 

[Sheepherder]

I used to read Ctrl+Alt+Del, now I remember why I stopped.

The joke is so fucking obvious that the telling of it is redundant.

[Velorath]

I used to read Ctrl+Alt+Del, now I remember why I stopped.

The joke is so fucking obvious that the telling of it is redundant.

Pretty much.  People were making this joke on message boards two weeks ago when the teaser first came out.

[NiX]

I think it would have been funny if the tanks were taking cover behind chest high walls.

[Ingmar]

And without the top 2 panels, which are completely pointless.

[Margalis]

SC2 is succeeding largely on strength of brand. And in terms of RTS importance it really has very little, it didn't jump start or consolidate the RTS genre the same way SC1 did. There's very little in the mechanics and game systems of SC2 that is going to change RTS games going forward.

Sure, it's popular, but it's important to the RTS genre the same way that Just Dance 2 is to the dancing genre. There's nothing pivotal about the release of SC2.

[Malakili]

SC2 is succeeding largely on strength of brand. And in terms of RTS importance it really has very little, it didn't jump start or consolidate the RTS genre the same way SC1 did. There's very little in the mechanics and game systems of SC2 that is going to change RTS games going forward.

Sure, it's popular, but it's important to the RTS genre the same way that Just Dance 2 is to the dancing genre. There's nothing pivotal about the release of SC2.

Other than the fact that it has single-handedly brought competitive professional gaming to relevance in the US, yea.

[Ingmar]

The conversation wasn't about whether it was pivotal or important to the development of the genre though; the question is do they have a dominant position in the market, which is unquestionably yes.

[Margalis]

I was responding more to:

"They've released the only RTS that matters in the last 8 years."

Pro-gaming is not relevant in the US, which sort of cuts off the whole "it made pro-gaming relevant." I really don't think that SC2 "matters" in any way beyond the way in which all decently selling games matter.

I also think it's silly to dismiss other games that are in many ways better and more interesting as undefinably and subjectively not mattering. Relic games have sold well and have had critical success, the idea that they don't matter seems like a clever way of saying "to me" while sounding objective.

[Sheepherder]

I think it would have been funny if the tanks were taking cover behind chest high walls.

Dude1: "Hey, did you hear that Bioware is making the next Command and Conquer?"
Dude1: "Command and Conquer with Bioware's gritty, deeply personal storytelling style?  Hells yeah!"
Screenshot: "Commander, they killed your wife!"

[UnSub]

I also think it's silly to dismiss other games that are in many ways better and more interesting as undefinably and subjectively not mattering. Relic games have sold well and have had critical success, the idea that they don't matter seems like a clever way of saying "to me" while sounding objective.

I liked Myst, Total Annihilation and Battle Realms over Blizzard's RTS output.

Doesn't matter in the scheme of things - more people played Starcraft 2 than those three titles combined.

[Margalis]

I liked Myst, Total Annihilation and Battle Realms over Blizzard's RTS output.

Doesn't matter in the scheme of things - more people played Starcraft 2 than those three titles combined.

Pretty sure that isn't true. Myst was a phenomenal seller.

[Ingmar]

He meant to say Myth, I'm pretty sure.

[Margalis]

That would make a lot more sense. But picking 3 niche titles is a silly trick anyway.

Why not say Age of Empires, Halo Wars and Dawn of War? Those three combined did a lot better than SC2 I believe.

[Velorath]

I also think it's silly to dismiss other games that are in many ways better and more interesting as undefinably and subjectively not mattering. Relic games have sold well and have had critical success, the idea that they don't matter seems like a clever way of saying "to me" while sounding objective.

I liked Myst, Total Annihilation and Battle Realms over Blizzard's RTS output.

Doesn't matter in the scheme of things - more people played Starcraft 2 than those three titles combined.

In 2006 when Company of Heroes came out, I don't think people were having to choose between picking that up or buying Warcraft 3 (or Starcraft 1).  Yeah, Blizzard games sell a fuckton, and are big e-sports in some countries.  In all those years though where Blizzard wasn't releasing any RTS games, other developers were, and weren't competing with Blizzard, hence why I don't think you can say they dominate the market.  Unlike the MMO market where you can dominate the market with one product and some expansions to the detriment of every other game out there, Blizzard isn't prolific enough to dominate other genres.  They can't pull a Call of Duty and release a game every single year that blows every other similar game away, and in Blizzard's downtime between WC3 and SC2, other games released and were successful by any meaningful standard.  Not only that, but Relic's games in particular moved beyond the Dune 2 style of RTS gameplay that Blizzard has been sticking to since '94.

[rk47]

I used to play C&C but an obelisk blasts me on the knees.
Interest on a new C&C Spinoff is meh. Bioware would be better served just to make a Mass Effect shooter rather than RTS.

[Velorath]

I used to play C&C but an obelisk blasts me on the knees.
Interest on a new C&C Spinoff is meh. Bioware would be better served just to make a Mass Effect shooter rather than RTS.

I'll wait and see.  If this new Bioware studio really is the Victory Games studio EA revealed at the beginning of the year, at the time it was being run by Jon Van Caneghem, who created the Might and Magic games (as well as Heroes of Might and Magic and the original Kings Bounty).  He also was one of the founders of Trion Worlds, the company that made Rift, so at the very least I'll be interested to see what comes out of this.

[UnSub]

He meant to say Myth, I'm pretty sure.

Yes. Which makes me particularly stupid as all I have to do is turn around and look at the Myth box on my shelf.

[Mrbloodworth]

Here is your CnC reboot.

[Malakili]

in Blizzard's downtime between WC3 and SC2, other games released and were successful by any meaningful standard.  Not only that, but Relic's games in particular moved beyond the Dune 2 style of RTS gameplay that Blizzard has been sticking to since '94.

I'm nor saying they weren't successful, but really, all you need to do is look at the multiplayer population of DoW2 the day Starcraft 2 came out - it utterly tanked.  All of these games were at best holdovers until Blizzard released something new.   I know that SC2 isn't real popular on these boards, nor are most games which require a competitive attitude, but it seems pretty clear to me that every time Blizzard has released an RTS, there has been no answer from the competition.  Sure relic might break the mold in a way that makes the game more accessible due to less multitasking skill being needed, but the people who want an accessible RTS are probably not that kind of people that are going to play an RTS long term anyway. 

[Mrbloodworth]

I don't consider Starcraft, and CoH/Relic as like games. Sure, sameish genre, but completely different game play and scope. Just like Supreme Commander is also, very different.

[Ingmar]

I also think it's silly to dismiss other games that are in many ways better and more interesting as undefinably and subjectively not mattering. Relic games have sold well and have had critical success, the idea that they don't matter seems like a clever way of saying "to me" while sounding objective.

I liked Myst, Total Annihilation and Battle Realms over Blizzard's RTS output.

Doesn't matter in the scheme of things - more people played Starcraft 2 than those three titles combined.

In 2006 when Company of Heroes came out, I don't think people were having to choose between picking that up or buying Warcraft 3 (or Starcraft 1).  Yeah, Blizzard games sell a fuckton, and are big e-sports in some countries.  In all those years though where Blizzard wasn't releasing any RTS games, other developers were, and weren't competing with Blizzard, hence why I don't think you can say they dominate the market.  Unlike the MMO market where you can dominate the market with one product and some expansions to the detriment of every other game out there, Blizzard isn't prolific enough to dominate other genres.  They can't pull a Call of Duty and release a game every single year that blows every other similar game away, and in Blizzard's downtime between WC3 and SC2, other games released and were successful by any meaningful standard.  Not only that, but Relic's games in particular moved beyond the Dune 2 style of RTS gameplay that Blizzard has been sticking to since '94.

Anecdotal but I recall seeing the StarCraft battle chest thing in top 10 game selling lists (along with 8 different versions of The Sims usually) for years after it came out. It would not surprise me in the slightest to hear that Starcraft sold more copies 3 years after it came out than RTSes released in that year.

[tmp]

So, looks the intrawebs have been right and Command and Conquer: Generals 2 it is.

"in game footage" teaser

[Ragnoros]

Really, 2013? How about we forget this thread, and game, for say, a year or so, and they can get back to us when they have something more substantial then ten seconds of random tank video. Remind me, why do developers announce shit so early?

[UnSub]

So we all know what EA BioWare is working on after SWOR.

I wonder at what time the BioWare brand gets spread too thin and starts getting tarnished, or when the earn out period of the BioWare heads finishes up and they leave "to spend more time with their families".

[Malakili]

The idea of an RTS using the Frostbite 2 engine is kind of interesting.  Aside from that, the trailer was useless.

[Evildrider]

So we all know what EA BioWare is working on after SWOR.

I wonder at what time the BioWare brand gets spread too thin and starts getting tarnished, or when the earn out period of the BioWare heads finishes up and they leave "to spend more time with their families".

I thought this was a newer Bioware studio working on this game.  It's not Bioware Austin.