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Author Topic: Random Sports Discussion  (Read 55225 times)
Threash
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Reply #35 on: October 27, 2011, 09:29:02 AM

That's the sad part, the NBA is more popular than it's ever been.

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ghost
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Reply #36 on: October 27, 2011, 10:29:09 AM

To me it's the rich, entitled owners versus the rich, entitled players.  The only winner is the agents, as you mentioned.  Come to think of it, it seems a lot like how our government runs these days.... why so serious?
HaemishM
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Reply #37 on: October 27, 2011, 10:36:02 AM

The thing that bugs me is that the owners are claiming to only have 8-10 teams that are making money. Don't blame that solely on the players - after all, who is agreeing to these contracts?

ghost
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Reply #38 on: October 27, 2011, 10:40:47 AM

Fuckem all.  I  don't care if they play another game.  Ohhhhh, I see.
HaemishM
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Reply #39 on: October 27, 2011, 10:52:05 AM

Well, it's the NBA. Of course I don't give a shit if they ever play again.

01101010
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Reply #40 on: October 27, 2011, 11:09:45 AM

Well, it's the NBA. Of course I don't give a shit if they ever play again.

But think of the kids being brought up in a world with no professional Basketball !! or overpriced shoe endorsements!!

"I want to watch it all burn in an orgy of smashed Coke machines and weasel rape." - HaemishM
Paelos
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Reply #41 on: October 27, 2011, 11:11:57 AM

I want them to play again, but only if they contract about 6 teams, reorganize into four team divisions per conference, and only put 8 teams in the playoffs.

CPA, Sports blogger, Mount and Blade enthusiast
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Threash
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Reply #42 on: October 27, 2011, 11:12:30 AM

The thing that bugs me is that the owners are claiming to only have 8-10 teams that are making money. Don't blame that solely on the players - after all, who is agreeing to these contracts?

I went over this.  The players get 57% of basketball revenue no matter what, the contracts only decide how that money is split.  Even with all those bad contracts the owners still had to pay extra at the end of last season because they didn't add up to 57%.  Obviously the blame is not on the players, the owners did agree to this setup on the last lockout, but they are trying to fix it now.

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Mosesandstick
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Reply #43 on: October 27, 2011, 11:33:31 AM

The last I read is that the owners were "losing" that much money through accounting tricks, such as counting players as capital depreciation.
Paelos
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Reply #44 on: October 27, 2011, 11:39:30 AM

The last I read is that the owners were "losing" that much money through accounting tricks, such as counting players as capital depreciation.

That would have worked on a cotton planation back in the 1800s. Not so much today.

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Threash
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Reply #45 on: October 27, 2011, 11:43:39 AM

The owners refused to open their books to the public but they opened them to the players association.

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ghost
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Reply #46 on: October 27, 2011, 12:26:47 PM

The last I read is that the owners were "losing" that much money through accounting tricks, such as counting players as capital depreciation.

I don't believe either side when it comes to moneytalk. 
Fordel
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Reply #47 on: October 27, 2011, 01:27:22 PM

Will any of this shit make the league competitive across the board again? I mean, it's been the same like half dozen teams that win everything every year for a looong ass time now.

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Reply #48 on: October 27, 2011, 01:35:47 PM

In fact basically forever. The NBA, despite the huge number of playoff teams it allows, is the least competitive major sport in the country by FAR. The Lakers and Celtics combined have won over 50% of the NBA titles there have ever been. The Finals have had one or the other (or both) of those teams appear 40 times, out of only 64 (I think) seasons.

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Paelos
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Reply #49 on: October 27, 2011, 01:41:19 PM

Will any of this shit make the league competitive across the board again? I mean, it's been the same like half dozen teams that win everything every year for a looong ass time now.

Not until they dump the lottery, no.

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ghost
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Reply #50 on: October 27, 2011, 06:21:20 PM

Will any of this shit make the league competitive across the board again? I mean, it's been the same like half dozen teams that win everything every year for a looong ass time now.

Not until they dump the lottery, no.

That might not even help that much.  The league is so money dependent and with only five players at a time you can make the finals with one really, really good player, e.g. Lebron. 
Mosesandstick
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Reply #51 on: October 28, 2011, 01:41:13 AM

Uh, I think that might be more Lebron than anything else. No other team has done well relying so heavily on one player for a long time. The standard has always been two superstars and build around them.
Ingmar
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Reply #52 on: October 28, 2011, 02:18:43 AM

LeBron didn't make it to the finals without Wade, so I don't think he really changes the math.

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caladein
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Reply #53 on: October 28, 2011, 02:50:41 AM

The only exceptions to that math I think are Mikan and Jordan when it comes to long dynastic runs.

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Mosesandstick
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Reply #54 on: October 28, 2011, 03:31:18 AM

Scottie Pippen won 6 rings too. There have been few exceptions to having two superstars: the Mavs and the Pistons off the top of my head. The Cavs and the 76ers also reached the finals having just one.
01101010
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Reply #55 on: October 28, 2011, 03:43:38 AM

LeBron didn't make it to the finals without Wade, so I don't think he really changes the math.

Ummm... 2007 begs to differ.

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ghost
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Reply #56 on: October 28, 2011, 06:31:56 AM

Yeah.  Lebron made the finals with a complete shit team.  So did Allen Iverson.  The Mavericks were a better team than either of those this year, but they really only have one true superstar in Nowitski.  In the NBA if one player gets really hot or is really good it can still carry a team.  Because of the way they structure their playoffs though it is tough for them to get over the hump and beat a team of superstars like the Lakers or Celtics typically have.
Mosesandstick
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Reply #57 on: October 28, 2011, 07:00:05 AM

The nba playoffs are designed so that the better team wins, you can't just get hot in one game. The reason why the Cavs and 76ers lost was because they were clearly inferior teams. The Mavs have one superstar with very solid roleplayers, Nowitzki got plenty of help.
01101010
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Reply #58 on: October 28, 2011, 07:05:13 AM

The nba playoffs are designed so that the better team wins, you can't just get hot in one game. The reason why the Cavs and 76ers lost was because they were clearly inferior teams. The Mavs have one superstar with very solid roleplayers, Nowitzki got plenty of help.

So does this argument hold for the NCAA tourney? I hate 7 game series in anything outside of baseball since there is a pitching and hitting rotation to consider... maybe even hockey to a point. But otherwise, I'd rather have a cinderella win out rather than the same stacked teams going at it every single god damn year of my life.

"I want to watch it all burn in an orgy of smashed Coke machines and weasel rape." - HaemishM
ghost
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Reply #59 on: October 28, 2011, 07:48:30 AM

The nba playoffs are designed so that the better team wins, you can't just get hot in one game. The reason why the Cavs and 76ers lost was because they were clearly inferior teams. The Mavs have one superstar with very solid roleplayers, Nowitzki got plenty of help.

And it usually works.  In the NBA guys will have "hot" years though, so it isn't always perfect when you consider the playoffs as a whole. 
Threash
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Reply #60 on: October 28, 2011, 09:48:31 AM

It wasn't just Nowistzky who carried the Mavs though, a lot of their roleplayers stepped up and played well even when Dirk struggled.  On the other side Lebron pulled his disappearing act and left a shorthanded team even worse off.

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Paelos
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Reply #61 on: October 28, 2011, 09:51:13 AM

It wasn't just Nowistzky who carried the Mavs though, a lot of their roleplayers stepped up and played well even when Dirk struggled.  On the other side Lebron pulled his disappearing act and left a shorthanded team even worse off.

And it was glorious theatre to watch as Lebron continues to be the most over-rated star in the business.

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Rasix
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Reply #62 on: October 28, 2011, 09:57:32 AM

Oh, is it time for this yearly discussion again?  Ohhhhh, I see.

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01101010
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Reply #63 on: October 28, 2011, 09:59:22 AM

It wasn't just Nowistzky who carried the Mavs though, a lot of their roleplayers stepped up and played well even when Dirk struggled.  On the other side Lebron pulled his disappearing act and left a shorthanded team even worse off.

And it was glorious theatre to watch as Lebron continues to be the most over-rated star in the business.

I think Lebron is a phenom, but the NBA screwed up and tried to fit the leader role on him when he might be best suited for a support role. Once the Heat figure that out, they might be deadly.

"I want to watch it all burn in an orgy of smashed Coke machines and weasel rape." - HaemishM
Fordel
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Reply #64 on: October 28, 2011, 10:36:14 AM

The nba playoffs are designed so that the better team wins, you can't just get hot in one game. The reason why the Cavs and 76ers lost was because they were clearly inferior teams. The Mavs have one superstar with very solid roleplayers, Nowitzki got plenty of help.


Hockey uses a large and long playoff system as well, but you have more then 5 teams winning championships.

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Mosesandstick
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Reply #65 on: October 28, 2011, 10:56:59 AM

I don't disagree that the nba has balancing issues, but it's definitely nothing to deal with having a singular superstar. Maybe it's ironic that we've switched from Superstars being capable of carrying crap teams to Lebron being overrated  awesome, for real.

In the past 13 years 3 teams have come out of the West to play in the Finals: The Spurs, Mavs, and Lakers, and those teams have only lost 3 times. Those teams share a combination of being well-run and paying above the salary cap. Something needs to be done to break that stranglehold and I'm not sure what it is.

Also in regards to the NCAA, I don't watch it, but I think part of the experience is supposed to be that upsets are more likely?
ghost
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Reply #66 on: October 28, 2011, 12:23:11 PM

Oh, is it time for this yearly discussion again?  Ohhhhh, I see.

I don't know what you're insinuating, but nothing ever gets rehashed around here.  It just doesn't happen.

It wasn't just Nowistzky who carried the Mavs though, a lot of their roleplayers stepped up and played well even when Dirk struggled.  On the other side Lebron pulled his disappearing act and left a shorthanded team even worse off.

Which game did he struggle in?  Was it the one where he had 21 points and 11 rebounds or the other one where he had 21 points and 11 rebounds?

Lebron will always be a rich man's Scottie Pippin.  He does everything Scottie did, only better.  Now he's just got to find himself an MJ to win the games. Maybe Wade is that guy.  I'm not super optimistic that his health will allow him to fill that role.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2011, 12:29:02 PM by ghost »
caladein
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Reply #67 on: October 28, 2011, 04:01:59 PM

Scottie Pippen won 6 rings too.

I'm okay with the only exception being a Laker!  Carry on.

"Point being, they can't make everyone happy, so I hope they pick me." -Ingmar
"OH MY GOD WE'RE SURROUNDED SEND FOR BACKUP DIG IN DEFENSIVE POSITIONS MAN YOUR NECKBEARDS" -tgr
Strazos
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Reply #68 on: October 29, 2011, 12:22:50 PM

If money is a problem, maybe they should institute a functional cap.

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ghost
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Reply #69 on: November 02, 2011, 01:24:37 PM

Looks like Hightower passed away.  It's sad to know that Bubba Smith will no longer be available for sequels.  It actually sounds like a little bit of a sad story.

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