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f13.net General Forums => Sports / Fantasy Sports => Topic started by: ghost on August 06, 2011, 04:58:07 PM



Title: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on August 06, 2011, 04:58:07 PM
So I thought there ought to be a thread for shit that we might like to talk about but probably don't need a thread, e.g. golf, tennis, cycling, etc. 

My entry into this is a dude that is an unbelievable sprinter yet has no legs.  He uses prostheses on both legs but is beating folks that are "fully functional" in races. 

Pretty goddamned amazing (http://espn.go.com/espn/commentary/story/_/page/howard-110804/oscar-pistorius-meets-olympic-qualifying-standard-400-meter-time-renews-controversy-prosthetic-legs). 

I find it interesting that there is actual debate about whether the guy with no fucking legs has a competitive advantage.   :awesome_for_real:  I guess it is possible, in theory, but the dude has NO FUCKING LEGS. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Merusk on August 06, 2011, 08:28:10 PM
He has no knees/ calves. he's got thigs.  So it's not "no legs" so much as "incomplete legs."

I'd also agree he's got a competitive advantage.  He's more lightweight and his prosthesis have much more spring to them to help with propulsion. 

At this point he's a cyborg. If we're going to let cyborgs compete then bring it on.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on August 07, 2011, 12:28:06 AM
Like I said, I suppose he could theoretically have an advantage.  I say let the guy compete anyway, regardless.  Heck, if a guy with nothing from the knee down can win against the big guys let him do it.  It would be great to watch. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on August 07, 2011, 05:10:32 PM
Presumably he could win if he got to drive a rocket powered wheelchair, too.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on August 08, 2011, 03:10:44 PM
In other news, Real Madrid signs a 7 year old:

http://espn.go.com/sports/soccer/news/_/id/6843531/real-madrid-signs-7-year-old-argentine-prospect-leonel-angel-coira


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on August 08, 2011, 03:22:50 PM
For fuck's sake.  That's just insane.  I wonder how long until  he is on the national team?


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Nebu on August 09, 2011, 09:57:00 AM
In other news, Real Madrid signs a 7 year old:

http://espn.go.com/sports/soccer/news/_/id/6843531/real-madrid-signs-7-year-old-argentine-prospect-leonel-angel-coira

It's getting the kid a good education and out of poverty.  If it serves no other good, I'd say it's a wonderful thing. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on August 09, 2011, 10:19:12 AM
In other news, Real Madrid signs a 7 year old:

http://espn.go.com/sports/soccer/news/_/id/6843531/real-madrid-signs-7-year-old-argentine-prospect-leonel-angel-coira

It's getting the kid a good education and out of poverty.  If it serves no other good, I'd say it's a wonderful thing. 

Without turning this into a political discussion, there is a lot more that Real Madrid could do to help kids out.  They have no other motives than selfish gambling.   


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Nebu on August 09, 2011, 10:22:23 AM
They have no other motives than selfish gambling.   

I know this.  Still, the kid is getting financial backing.  That's a start.  It's not much different than Hollywood bankrolling some kid and then dumping them like a rock when they hit puberty. 



Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on August 09, 2011, 12:59:14 PM
I'm not sure he was actually in poverty, but I think the story is actually most interesting because of what it shows about how basically everywhere not the US handles the amateur/professional athlete split.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on August 09, 2011, 01:29:25 PM
Well here we don't really have a split.  At least at OSU, Oregon, USC, etc. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Teleku on August 09, 2011, 01:34:19 PM
I'm not sure he was actually in poverty, but I think the story is actually most interesting because of what it shows about how basically everywhere not the US handles the amateur/professional athlete split.
Whats the difference exactly?


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on August 09, 2011, 01:39:41 PM
Here we pretend that there's some sort of selfless nobility in amateur athletics, expect our young athletes to turn their noses up at crass materialism and ignore the money flying around them in huge amounts, and then act shocked when they get paid under the table. Everywhere else things are straightforward and relatively honest, it seems.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on August 09, 2011, 01:44:59 PM
You're right, Ingmar.  I think that is a good point. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on August 11, 2011, 07:35:51 PM
So Tiger Woods is stinking it up at the PGA tour (http://espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=wojciechowski_gene&page=wojciechowski-110811&sportCat=golf).  This is a far out theory, but I think that it is highly likely that he was doping with HgH or steroids or something prior to this deal with his divorce.  Since then he has been perpetually hurt and out of shape (for him).  His game is completely off of normal, and every aspect is bad. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on August 11, 2011, 07:38:13 PM
I don't think it is all that far out at all, given his association with that Canadian doctor that was smuggling HGH around.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on August 11, 2011, 08:07:44 PM
I had forgotten about that.  Yeah, he's guilty as hell. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Merusk on August 11, 2011, 08:25:12 PM
That would explain the length of injuries, perhaps, but I think more to the point he's lost the last vestiges of his focus and is in his mid 30's.  That's not exactly prime of life for someone who's been beating on their body athletically since age 2.  He's been on his way out for a while, this is just the pathetic, dribbling end.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: SnakeCharmer on August 27, 2011, 12:49:17 AM
So Tiger Woods is stinking it up at the PGA tour (http://espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=wojciechowski_gene&page=wojciechowski-110811&sportCat=golf).  This is a far out theory, but I think that it is highly likely that he was doping with HgH or steroids or something prior to this deal with his divorce.  Since then he has been perpetually hurt and out of shape (for him).  His game is completely off of normal, and every aspect is bad.  

Rumors about Tiger and hgh have been going around for a while.  Hell if a couple people are to be believed,  three quarters of the top 125 are on it.

It is pretty likely that he was but eventually that swing was going to do some damage to his body that the meds couldn't keep up with.  All that torque being generated on his left leg just put tremendous pressure on it.  It really all started a few years ago when an overzealous fan fell in front of him and hyperextended his knee.  Keeping that left foot to the ground over hundreds of thousands of swing took a toll on that achilles heal.  Three surguries later with relative little rest and that swing?  Recipe for disaster.  There's also the possibility that one of the surguries was botched.

The other thing is he's entering an age (early to mid 30's) where pro golfers tend to have some lulls in their careers - whether by injury, starting a family, divorce, other priorities, swing changes, etc.  He's kinda getting hit with injury, starting a family, divorce, swing change.  Basically hitting for cycle all at once.

Where Tiger doesn't have it anymore is the greens, which was his biggest strength, IMHO.  Dude was clutch all the time every time and a large part of that is mental and more so, confidence.  He still has the best stroke of anybody, he just isn't trusting it.  

Sad really.  Besides Philly Mick and Freddie Couples, there's nobody I enjoyed watching play more.   Tiger for the perfection, Phil for the drama, and Freddie for the liquid velvety smooth swing.

He needs a full year off to get his body back and get a swing grooved again.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on September 16, 2011, 09:33:52 PM
Mettaworldpeace   :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on October 16, 2011, 09:24:57 PM
Fucking hell that Dan Wheldon wreck was nasty.   :ye_gods:

I'm surprised we don't see more of this stuff in Indycar.  The racers are so exposed.  

Here's a link to it  (http://msn.foxsports.com/motor/story/Indy-500-champion-Dan-Wheldon-killed-in-crash-at-Las-Vegas-101611)if you haven't seen it.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Abagadro on October 16, 2011, 09:50:45 PM
I'm surprised Wil Power wasn't killed too.  Crazy wreck.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on October 16, 2011, 10:12:03 PM
I'm surprised Wil Power wasn't killed too.  Crazy wreck.

There's still time.  I haven't heard much about the condition though.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Chimpy on October 16, 2011, 11:02:06 PM
I turned on the TV this afternoon and it was on ABC. One of the commentators was talking about the racetrack being one which was designed to allow cars to run flat out even through the turns.

Betting that this will end up being like what happened after Senna died in F-1. They will redesign the cars to slow them down a ton and they will re-design tracks to slow them down as much as they can. Though unlike F-1, IndyCar drives mainly on ovals so there is not a whole lot they can do to slow the track speed down.

And people will talk about "making the cars safer" but at this point, the only real way to make the cars considerably safer is to slow them down.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on October 17, 2011, 09:31:20 AM
Here's a better view of the wreck (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMMHu8lnepM), from multiple angles. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on October 17, 2011, 09:54:12 AM
200+ racing deaths in the last decade? I'd say that considering it's pretty similar to the last decade that the safety precautions they've put in thus far are doing nothing.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on October 17, 2011, 10:06:22 AM
200+ racing deaths in the last decade? I'd say that considering it's pretty similar to the last decade that the safety precautions they've put in thus far are doing nothing.

Hey, it's safer than Iraq and Afghanistan.  What more do you want them to do? :why_so_serious:

I'm not a car racing fan, by any means but it's clear that these drivers should understand the risks.  I mean they're going 220 miles per hour in a fucking coffin on wheels, for fuck's sake.  I feel really bad for this guy because of his two little kids.  I hope he had good life insurance.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on October 17, 2011, 10:09:05 AM
We understand the risk that NFL players may die 10 years earlier. That doesn't mean we should accept it willingly and ignore technological changes or rules changes to make a dent in fatality stats.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on October 17, 2011, 10:55:08 AM
I don't have a problem with them monkeying with the rules to make it safer as long as it doesn't detract from the sport.  The participants always have an option to not play, however, and the risk for football isn't nearly as obvious as the risk to the Indycar drivers. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Bunk on October 24, 2011, 08:03:45 AM
Well, since the World Series was on last night - I watched the World Cup of Rugby final.  :grin:

Damn good game, 8 - 7, All Blacks over France, in New Zealand. Sometimes I forget how much high level rugby makes the "Major" sports athletes look like wusses.

Plus, I can't imagine a major North American sport ever allowing for something like this before the games: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APxj503tjG8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APxj503tjG8)


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on October 24, 2011, 09:38:19 AM
That's pretty awesome.   :awesome_for_real:

If I had more time I would try to pay attention to rugby.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on October 24, 2011, 10:50:49 AM
Shit, I forgot the final was yesterday. I love watching the All Blacks.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Chimpy on October 24, 2011, 10:54:25 AM
Shit, I forgot the final was yesterday. I love watching the All Blacks.

Pretty sure all of the games for the whole tourney are available online at the RWC site. www.rugbyworldcup.com

Their player is ridiculously advanced in the form of options etc.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Threash on October 27, 2011, 10:44:54 AM
Stupid NBA lockout is pissing me off.  Players screwing themselves financially just to protect their agents future earnings because they have no clue they already lost more money than what they are fighting about.  The average NBA career is barely over three years, you can't give up a fucking season over a 3% difference dumbasses.  And this bullshit about the owners "needing to be protected from themselves" needs to stop too, even with all the horrible contracts given out the past free agent season player salaries did not reach the 57% BRI they were supposed to get, the owners had to give a hefty check to the players association to make up the difference.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on October 27, 2011, 11:12:09 AM
Stupid NBA lockout is pissing me off.  Players screwing themselves financially just to protect their agents future earnings because they have no clue they already lost more money than what they are fighting about.  The average NBA career is barely over three years, you can't give up a fucking season over a 3% difference dumbasses.  And this bullshit about the owners "needing to be protected from themselves" needs to stop too, even with all the horrible contracts given out the past free agent season player salaries did not reach the 57% BRI they were supposed to get, the owners had to give a hefty check to the players association to make up the difference.

The NBA is still around? How cute...


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Threash on October 27, 2011, 11:29:02 AM
That's the sad part, the NBA is more popular than it's ever been.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on October 27, 2011, 12:29:09 PM
To me it's the rich, entitled owners versus the rich, entitled players.  The only winner is the agents, as you mentioned.  Come to think of it, it seems a lot like how our government runs these days.... :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on October 27, 2011, 12:36:02 PM
The thing that bugs me is that the owners are claiming to only have 8-10 teams that are making money. Don't blame that solely on the players - after all, who is agreeing to these contracts?


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on October 27, 2011, 12:40:47 PM
Fuckem all.  I  don't care if they play another game.  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on October 27, 2011, 12:52:05 PM
Well, it's the NBA. Of course I don't give a shit if they ever play again.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on October 27, 2011, 01:09:45 PM
Well, it's the NBA. Of course I don't give a shit if they ever play again.

But think of the kids being brought up in a world with no professional Basketball !! or overpriced shoe endorsements!!


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on October 27, 2011, 01:11:57 PM
I want them to play again, but only if they contract about 6 teams, reorganize into four team divisions per conference, and only put 8 teams in the playoffs.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Threash on October 27, 2011, 01:12:30 PM
The thing that bugs me is that the owners are claiming to only have 8-10 teams that are making money. Don't blame that solely on the players - after all, who is agreeing to these contracts?

I went over this.  The players get 57% of basketball revenue no matter what, the contracts only decide how that money is split.  Even with all those bad contracts the owners still had to pay extra at the end of last season because they didn't add up to 57%.  Obviously the blame is not on the players, the owners did agree to this setup on the last lockout, but they are trying to fix it now.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Mosesandstick on October 27, 2011, 01:33:31 PM
The last I read is that the owners were "losing" that much money through accounting tricks, such as counting players as capital depreciation.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on October 27, 2011, 01:39:30 PM
The last I read is that the owners were "losing" that much money through accounting tricks, such as counting players as capital depreciation.

That would have worked on a cotton planation back in the 1800s. Not so much today.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Threash on October 27, 2011, 01:43:39 PM
The owners refused to open their books to the public but they opened them to the players association.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on October 27, 2011, 02:26:47 PM
The last I read is that the owners were "losing" that much money through accounting tricks, such as counting players as capital depreciation.

I don't believe either side when it comes to moneytalk. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Fordel on October 27, 2011, 03:27:22 PM
Will any of this shit make the league competitive across the board again? I mean, it's been the same like half dozen teams that win everything every year for a looong ass time now.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on October 27, 2011, 03:35:47 PM
In fact basically forever. The NBA, despite the huge number of playoff teams it allows, is the least competitive major sport in the country by FAR. The Lakers and Celtics combined have won over 50% of the NBA titles there have ever been. The Finals have had one or the other (or both) of those teams appear 40 times, out of only 64 (I think) seasons.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on October 27, 2011, 03:41:19 PM
Will any of this shit make the league competitive across the board again? I mean, it's been the same like half dozen teams that win everything every year for a looong ass time now.

Not until they dump the lottery, no.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on October 27, 2011, 08:21:20 PM
Will any of this shit make the league competitive across the board again? I mean, it's been the same like half dozen teams that win everything every year for a looong ass time now.

Not until they dump the lottery, no.

That might not even help that much.  The league is so money dependent and with only five players at a time you can make the finals with one really, really good player, e.g. Lebron. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Mosesandstick on October 28, 2011, 03:41:13 AM
Uh, I think that might be more Lebron than anything else. No other team has done well relying so heavily on one player for a long time. The standard has always been two superstars and build around them.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on October 28, 2011, 04:18:43 AM
LeBron didn't make it to the finals without Wade, so I don't think he really changes the math.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: caladein on October 28, 2011, 04:50:41 AM
The only exceptions to that math I think are Mikan and Jordan when it comes to long dynastic runs.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Mosesandstick on October 28, 2011, 05:31:18 AM
Scottie Pippen won 6 rings too. There have been few exceptions to having two superstars: the Mavs and the Pistons off the top of my head. The Cavs and the 76ers also reached the finals having just one.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on October 28, 2011, 05:43:38 AM
LeBron didn't make it to the finals without Wade, so I don't think he really changes the math.

Ummm... 2007 begs to differ.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on October 28, 2011, 08:31:56 AM
Yeah.  Lebron made the finals with a complete shit team.  So did Allen Iverson.  The Mavericks were a better team than either of those this year, but they really only have one true superstar in Nowitski.  In the NBA if one player gets really hot or is really good it can still carry a team.  Because of the way they structure their playoffs though it is tough for them to get over the hump and beat a team of superstars like the Lakers or Celtics typically have.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Mosesandstick on October 28, 2011, 09:00:05 AM
The nba playoffs are designed so that the better team wins, you can't just get hot in one game. The reason why the Cavs and 76ers lost was because they were clearly inferior teams. The Mavs have one superstar with very solid roleplayers, Nowitzki got plenty of help.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on October 28, 2011, 09:05:13 AM
The nba playoffs are designed so that the better team wins, you can't just get hot in one game. The reason why the Cavs and 76ers lost was because they were clearly inferior teams. The Mavs have one superstar with very solid roleplayers, Nowitzki got plenty of help.

So does this argument hold for the NCAA tourney? I hate 7 game series in anything outside of baseball since there is a pitching and hitting rotation to consider... maybe even hockey to a point. But otherwise, I'd rather have a cinderella win out rather than the same stacked teams going at it every single god damn year of my life.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on October 28, 2011, 09:48:30 AM
The nba playoffs are designed so that the better team wins, you can't just get hot in one game. The reason why the Cavs and 76ers lost was because they were clearly inferior teams. The Mavs have one superstar with very solid roleplayers, Nowitzki got plenty of help.

And it usually works.  In the NBA guys will have "hot" years though, so it isn't always perfect when you consider the playoffs as a whole. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Threash on October 28, 2011, 11:48:31 AM
It wasn't just Nowistzky who carried the Mavs though, a lot of their roleplayers stepped up and played well even when Dirk struggled.  On the other side Lebron pulled his disappearing act and left a shorthanded team even worse off.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on October 28, 2011, 11:51:13 AM
It wasn't just Nowistzky who carried the Mavs though, a lot of their roleplayers stepped up and played well even when Dirk struggled.  On the other side Lebron pulled his disappearing act and left a shorthanded team even worse off.

And it was glorious theatre to watch as Lebron continues to be the most over-rated star in the business.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Rasix on October 28, 2011, 11:57:32 AM
Oh, is it time for this yearly discussion again?  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on October 28, 2011, 11:59:22 AM
It wasn't just Nowistzky who carried the Mavs though, a lot of their roleplayers stepped up and played well even when Dirk struggled.  On the other side Lebron pulled his disappearing act and left a shorthanded team even worse off.

And it was glorious theatre to watch as Lebron continues to be the most over-rated star in the business.

I think Lebron is a phenom, but the NBA screwed up and tried to fit the leader role on him when he might be best suited for a support role. Once the Heat figure that out, they might be deadly.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Fordel on October 28, 2011, 12:36:14 PM
The nba playoffs are designed so that the better team wins, you can't just get hot in one game. The reason why the Cavs and 76ers lost was because they were clearly inferior teams. The Mavs have one superstar with very solid roleplayers, Nowitzki got plenty of help.


Hockey uses a large and long playoff system as well, but you have more then 5 teams winning championships.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Mosesandstick on October 28, 2011, 12:56:59 PM
I don't disagree that the nba has balancing issues, but it's definitely nothing to deal with having a singular superstar. Maybe it's ironic that we've switched from Superstars being capable of carrying crap teams to Lebron being overrated  :awesome_for_real:.

In the past 13 years 3 teams have come out of the West to play in the Finals: The Spurs, Mavs, and Lakers, and those teams have only lost 3 times. Those teams share a combination of being well-run and paying above the salary cap. Something needs to be done to break that stranglehold and I'm not sure what it is.

Also in regards to the NCAA, I don't watch it, but I think part of the experience is supposed to be that upsets are more likely?


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on October 28, 2011, 02:23:11 PM
Oh, is it time for this yearly discussion again?  :oh_i_see:

I don't know what you're insinuating, but nothing ever gets rehashed around here.  It just doesn't happen.

It wasn't just Nowistzky who carried the Mavs though, a lot of their roleplayers stepped up and played well even when Dirk struggled.  On the other side Lebron pulled his disappearing act and left a shorthanded team even worse off.

Which game did he struggle in?  Was it the one where he had 21 points and 11 rebounds or the other one where he had 21 points and 11 rebounds?

Lebron will always be a rich man's Scottie Pippin.  He does everything Scottie did, only better.  Now he's just got to find himself an MJ to win the games. Maybe Wade is that guy.  I'm not super optimistic that his health will allow him to fill that role.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: caladein on October 28, 2011, 06:01:59 PM
Scottie Pippen won 6 rings too.

I'm okay with the only exception being a Laker!  Carry on.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Strazos on October 29, 2011, 02:22:50 PM
If money is a problem, maybe they should institute a functional cap.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on November 02, 2011, 03:24:37 PM
Looks like Hightower passed away (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7181905/coroner-bubba-smith-died-drug-intoxication).  It's sad to know that Bubba Smith will no longer be available for sequels.  It actually sounds like a little bit of a sad story.

(http://guymanningham.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/hightower-police-academy-bubba-smith-2.jpg)


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: WayAbvPar on November 02, 2011, 03:26:13 PM
Quote
A caretaker at the 66-year-old Smith's home in Baldwin Hills found his body on Aug. 3.

Yeah, pretty sure we talked about it then  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on November 02, 2011, 03:38:56 PM
It's a new article though, and I'm pretty sure folks around here aren't afraid to rehash, well, just about anything, right?


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: WayAbvPar on November 02, 2011, 03:40:14 PM
I don't know what you could possibly mean by that!



Trammel, sb.exe


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on November 02, 2011, 03:42:42 PM
I don't know what you could possibly mean by that!



Trammel, sb.exe

RAGE.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on November 06, 2011, 07:00:25 AM
Jerry Sandusky is a pig (http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/jerry-sandusky-penn-state-football-sexual-abuse-scandal-tim-curly-gary-schultz-how-could-administration-let-it-happen110511).  Everyone at Penn St that even had an inkling of is, especially Joe Pa, should go down in flames. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on November 06, 2011, 07:08:39 AM
Jerry Sandusky is a pig (http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/jerry-sandusky-penn-state-football-sexual-abuse-scandal-tim-curly-gary-schultz-how-could-administration-let-it-happen110511).  Everyone at Penn St that even had an inkling of is, especially Joe Pa, should go down in flames. 

I agree with ya, but JoePa is untouchable. Besides, I doubt Paterno had any idea this was going on and if he was made aware of it, he would have jumped on it as soon as he knew. But that is just my opinion on JoePa.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on November 06, 2011, 07:52:40 AM
Jerry Sandusky is a pig (http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/jerry-sandusky-penn-state-football-sexual-abuse-scandal-tim-curly-gary-schultz-how-could-administration-let-it-happen110511).  Everyone at Penn St that even had an inkling of is, especially Joe Pa, should go down in flames. 

I agree with ya, but JoePa is untouchable. Besides, I doubt Paterno had any idea this was going on and if he was made aware of it, he would have jumped on it as soon as he knew. But that is just my opinion on JoePa.

It says in the article that Joe Pa knew exactly what was going on and reported it to the AD.  If he was such an upstanding guy he would have demanded that something more be done about it, i.e. fired Sandusky. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on November 07, 2011, 02:56:22 PM
Grad assistant caught the guy raping a 10 year old, and left.

I can't even imagine WTF was going through his head. He didn't call the cops, he didn't do anything but tell the head coach? Then he gets promoted?

The FUCK!?!


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on November 07, 2011, 03:01:01 PM
Jerry Sandusky is a pig (http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/jerry-sandusky-penn-state-football-sexual-abuse-scandal-tim-curly-gary-schultz-how-could-administration-let-it-happen110511).  Everyone at Penn St that even had an inkling of is, especially Joe Pa, should go down in flames. 

I agree with ya, but JoePa is untouchable. Besides, I doubt Paterno had any idea this was going on and if he was made aware of it, he would have jumped on it as soon as he knew. But that is just my opinion on JoePa.

It says in the article that Joe Pa knew exactly what was going on and reported it to the AD.  If he was such an upstanding guy he would have demanded that something more be done about it, i.e. fired Sandusky. 

Sandusky wasn't working for Paterno at the time. The incident Paterno reported was in 2002, Sandusky retired in 1999. He was on site as part of some football camp or something I think?

Which is not to say there aren't about 400 very hard questions that Paterno et. al. shouldn't be answering.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on November 07, 2011, 04:46:48 PM

Which is not to say there aren't about 400 very hard questions that Paterno et. al. shouldn't be answering.

Over a pit of glowing coals.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on November 07, 2011, 04:47:38 PM
Dear lord, the more I read on this subject, the more and more I can't possibly believe JoePa can continue coaching after this year.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on November 08, 2011, 11:19:53 AM
Penn State cancels Joe Pa's press conference (http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7207730/penn-state-nittany-lions-call-joe-paterno-news-conference).  It looks like he may not be coaching there. Something serious is afoot if this is the case, and it suggests to me that the feds may be looking more intently at Paterno's involvement.


More evidence that Joe Pa is gone (http://tracking.si.com/2011/11/08/report-penn-state-said-to-be-planning-paternos-exit/?sct=hp_t11_a2&eref=sihp).  Penn State planning his exit after this year.

New York Times chiming in (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/09/sports/ncaafootball/penn-state-said-to-be-planning-paternos-exit.html?_r=2&hp).


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on November 08, 2011, 01:15:27 PM
It's the age old rule. Nobody survives a scandal involving a dead girl or a live boy.

At best, he's too old to know what was going on, which you can't have as the CEO of a major program that's currently #1 in the Big Ten.

At worst, he covered for his buddy, let him retire but still hang around, and promoted the kid who saw something to shut him up.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on November 08, 2011, 01:35:39 PM
What a gobble of idiots. How the fuck could ANYONE at the university cover up or otherwise ignore allegations like that? After all the Catholic Church has been through in the last decade with child sexual abuse scandals, how could the guys in the athletic department let this guy keep an office on campus? Even if the stuff he'd done had never occurred on campus or had anything to do with students, it's just crazy stupid. You're asking for your institution to get hammered by police and the press when/if the shit gets out.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on November 08, 2011, 01:46:26 PM
At best, he's too old to know what was going on, which you can't have as the CEO of a major program that's currently #1 in the Big Ten.

Honestly this has seemed to be true for years anyway.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on November 08, 2011, 01:59:44 PM
At best, he's too old to know what was going on, which you can't have as the CEO of a major program that's currently #1 in the Big Ten.

Honestly this has seemed to be true for years anyway.

Agreed, he was going to be allowed to leave on his own terms, which was likely death. Now, you're out of options. His inability to do the job is costing people in ways that should never have occurred.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: WayAbvPar on November 08, 2011, 02:45:29 PM
I had no idea PSU was a Jesuit school.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on November 08, 2011, 02:55:58 PM
I had no idea PSU was a Jesuit school.

It's a good thing they're not.  There would be serious  :mob: going on, even more than now.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Merusk on November 09, 2011, 06:08:51 AM
Why are all football guys considered meatheads?

Because they can walk in on their boss abusing a 10 year old and their first reaction isn't to beat the shit out of them.  You can insist it was just this one guy but how many scandals, problems and general bullshit do you have to experience in your life before realizing, no, it's systemic.

Fuck sports programs and our national love affair with them.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on November 09, 2011, 08:58:44 AM
I read the 23-page grand jury indictment and it's so much  :uhrr: :ye_gods: Anyone at the university who had ANY knowledge of the shower scene that didn't contact police should be fired. There is NO justification whatsoever for not having called police and alerting child protection authorities about it. The fact that all they did to the coach was tell him not to bring underage kids onto the campus is reprehensible.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on November 09, 2011, 08:59:28 AM
I read the 23-page grand jury indictment and it's so much  :uhrr: :ye_gods: Anyone at the university who had ANY knowledge of the shower scene that didn't contact police should be fired. There is NO justification whatsoever for not having called police and alerting child protection authorities about it. The fact that all they did to the coach was tell him not to bring underage kids onto the campus is reprehensible.

I think they should be charged as an accessory to a crime if they willingly covered it up. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on November 09, 2011, 09:01:58 AM
I can say this. I've walked in on people having sex before and your first reaction isn't one of clear thinking. It's usually a WTF moment and you just sorta amble out of the room. In hindsight people always say you should have done all this shit, but your typical reaction is just shock. And that's just normal people have consensual intercourse, not a crime taking place.

So, the people that are all, HE SHOULD HAVE BEAT THE SHIT OUT OF HIM, are being stupid. That's not the normal reaction in the situation. It's shock and flight for 99% of the populace when they see something scarring and horrifying. That being said, the reaction after the fact was where this guy failed morally. To put it all on the back burner and continue to work with a rapist that you know is a predator on a regular basis? How do you sleep at night?


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on November 09, 2011, 10:52:23 AM
Joe Paterno officially retiring at the season's end.  It's the right thing to do. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: WayAbvPar on November 09, 2011, 11:16:30 AM
Joe Paterno officially retiring at the season's end.  It's the right thing to do. 

The right thing to do ship sailed a hell of a lot earlier than today. Fuck him.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on November 09, 2011, 11:20:35 AM
Joe Paterno officially retiring at the season's end.  It's the right thing to do. 

The right thing to do ship sailed a hell of a lot earlier than today. Fuck him.

 :facepalm:



Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on November 09, 2011, 11:20:45 AM
I agree, but he's dealing with this as it sits right now.  There's little he could do at this point other than retire short of diving on a sword.  

It will be interesting to see if the investigation into this shows that Paterno was even less forthcoming than it seems.  I suspect that will be the case, but only time will tell.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Trippy on November 09, 2011, 12:04:18 PM
He can retire RIGHT NOW instead of at the end of the season.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on November 09, 2011, 12:06:31 PM
How will that fix anything in a different manner than retiring in 3 games?  I think Paterno has enough good mojo from his career to give him that much. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Rasix on November 09, 2011, 12:11:59 PM
How much good mojo offsets allowing a serial child molester to continue working at your place of business?  How do you not go straight to the police with that shit?


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on November 09, 2011, 12:12:49 PM
And.... this  (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/michael_mccann/11/09/joe.paterno/index.html)would be why Paterno is being pushed out.  

[quoteUnder Pennsylvania law, as in other jurisdictions, perjury refers to knowingly lying while under oath. Obstruction of justice describes interference with the administration of justice, such as by concealing evidence or delaying or frustrating a criminal investigation. While Paterno has thus far escaped these criminal charges, his statements and behavior suggest that he remains vulnerable to them. That is particularly evident when considering troubling inconsistencies between Paterno's testimony to the grand jury that investigated Sandusky and the testimony of Penn State assistant Mike McQueary.
[/quote]

How much good mojo offsets allowing a serial child molester to continue working at your place of business?  How do you not go straight to the police with that shit?

I'm not sure.  I think he'll eventually end up facing perjury charges with the rest of them, so then he'll get to pay the piper.  I have little problem with him coaching a few more games though.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on November 09, 2011, 12:18:15 PM
How much good mojo offsets allowing a serial child molester to continue working at your place of business?  How do you not go straight to the police with that shit?

Given what we know, was JoePa supposed to stroll into the police station and file a report with them based on hearsay? He could have dragged McQueary down there for his direct witness report. The stakes may change if JoePa was a direct witness, but right now, I can understand. I don't have a moral compass so I am looking at this completely different. Guess I should be burned at the stake as well.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Merusk on November 09, 2011, 12:21:11 PM
How will that fix anything in a different manner than retiring in 3 games?  I think Paterno has enough good mojo from his career to give him that much.  

Because it sends the message that - hey - at least you understand now that you've been caught that you were a shitheel and doesn't reinforce the message that winning > Law, Morality or common decency.

You know.. the entire reason this shit sandwich was covered up in the first place.

How much good mojo offsets allowing a serial child molester to continue working at your place of business?  How do you not go straight to the police with that shit?

Given what we know, was JoePa supposed to stroll into the police station and file a report with them based on hearsay? He could have dragged McQueary down there for his direct witness report. The stakes may change if JoePa was a direct witness, but right now, I can understand. I don't have a moral compass so I am looking at this completely different. Guess I should be burned at the stake as well.

Yes, that's exactly what he was supposed to do.  Police's job is to investigate crime.  He heard of a crime. You drag the AC down with you to the Police and say "this guy saw that one diddle a kid." 

What the fuck world do you live in where you have to have concrete evidence before going to the authorities?


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Chimpy on November 09, 2011, 12:22:45 PM
From the reports I read, Paterno was not told what the person saw just that they saw something they felt was inappropriate and they were unwilling/unable to discuss it with him and he followed procedure and put them in contact with the AD whose purview the HR/inappropriateness contact was.

Not trying to give anyone a pass on this, but everyone seems to be acting like Paterno was a direct witness which he wasn't.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on November 09, 2011, 12:23:36 PM
There is some indication that Joe was potentially a little intentionally vague in his report to the AD.  While he might not have been at the point to run into the police station to file a report he certainly didn't follow up appropriately.  Of course it appears that nothing short of filing a police report would have gotten anything done since everyone above him was actively covering up for Sandusky.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on November 09, 2011, 12:31:31 PM
Because it sends the message that - hey - at least you understand now that you've been caught that you were a shitheel and doesn't reinforce the message that winning > Law, Morality or common decency.

You know.. the entire reason this shit sandwich was covered up in the first place.

I'm not sure that a few football games is going to make a lot of difference to those that were molested.  I'm sure none of them would make the trade of "hey, let this guy bang you in the ass a few times and then we'll make this other guy quit his job tomorrow to make up for it".  What very well might make a difference to the victims is full cooperation from Paterno at this point.  I think it is important to remember that it wasn't Joe that molested the kids and it's not exactly clear how much he really knew.  There is a possibility that he could have known everything, in detail, in which case criminal charges should probably be brought against him as well.  There's just too much unknown to dive in and bring the hammer down on someone like Paterno just yet.  That's why I don't have much problem with him coaching this season out.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on November 09, 2011, 12:48:29 PM
What the fuck world do you live in where you have to have concrete evidence before going to the authorities?

Obviously one that you do not approve of.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Trippy on November 09, 2011, 12:52:39 PM
How does his staying till the end of season serve the best interests of the team or the school? He's being a self-serving bastard to the bitter end.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on November 09, 2011, 12:53:46 PM
From the reports I read, Paterno was not told what the person saw just that they saw something they felt was inappropriate and they were unwilling/unable to discuss it with him and he followed procedure and put them in contact with the AD whose purview the HR/inappropriateness contact was.

Not trying to give anyone a pass on this, but everyone seems to be acting like Paterno was a direct witness which he wasn't.

The grand jury report says that the grad assistant told Joe Pa and the higher ups that he saw this guy fucking a kid in the ass. The guys who have been arrested for perjury claim the grad assistant said nothing more than "inappropriate contact." The grand jury didn't find them credible. Joe Pa SHOULD have gone to the cops, but at the very least, he shouldn't have allowed this fucker to continue to host shit on campus and be affiliated with the program if there was a hint of impropriety.

He let his "superiors" supposedly handle all that - which makes me think his attitude was "let it be someone else's problem." Which is all well and good until we start talking about child molesters being allowed to go scott free and do it again.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on November 09, 2011, 12:54:00 PM
You can't let him take the field. You simply can't. Not only is that a PR clusterfuck you're opening up, but it's also just in horrifically bad taste to expose your school and team to this shenanigans that would take place with him coaching. The taunts, the signage, the general atmosphere. You are taking your school and just throwing it open for every possible criticism by letting him coach. Forget that it's even going to be a football game, if he goes out there it becomes a fucking circus for the rest of the season. It's the distraction to end all distractions.

Some might ask what can it hurt to let him coach it out? What the hell can it HELP to let him coach it out? He doesn't coach and we all know it. Having him there would only make him feel better. Fuck making him feel better at this point, he lost that right when he failed the great test of morality. Evil thrives when good men turn a blind eye and do nothing. That's exactly what he did.

He took the easy road. It's hard to stand up to your friends. It's hard to believe that your friends are capable of monstrous acts. It's hard to go to the police and open up your program to scrutiny. It's hard to ask the uncomfortable questions to those who are responsible. It's hard to hold people accountable for what they did. So instead, he did nothing. He's been doing nothing for years. His current lifestyle is about riding out his goodwill until he dies. Were I the school, I would say no more. We draw the line here as a university and as a society. We will no longer tolerate you doing nothing for any period of time going forward. It ends this Saturday.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on November 09, 2011, 12:56:02 PM
How does his staying till the end of season serve the best interests of the team or the school? He's being a self-serving bastard to the bitter end.


Again, my thought is that we have no idea exactly how much he knew or "hid", as it were.  There's some indication that he was being vague, but we don't know how much he knew.  I don't like the idea of going over the top just because of public sentiment, particularly in an instance where there are many other aspects of his job that he was excellent at (and not just winning football games).  

And since you asked, him staying on could preserve the decent season they are having, provide some continuity and provide some leadership in trying to get through this circus.  

To be clear-  I wouldn't have a problem if Penn State decided to shitcan him tomorrow, but I also don't have a problem with him coaching out the rest of the season.  It's not like he does anything but sit in the coordinator's box anyway.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Margalis on November 09, 2011, 01:02:08 PM
I don't have a huge problem with reporting something to superiors under the assumption that they will take care of it. You might assume that they have the proper contacts or better can navigate the procedures or whatever. But if you do that and clearly NOTHING HAPPENS as a result you have a moral responsibility to say "uh...yeah I told you that this guy was molesting kids and he's still on campus with kids. If you aren't going to call the police I will."

It does depend on what exactly Paterno was told. Apparently McQueary was "distraught" about it, called him and visited him at home, so even if he wasn't super-specific you have to think it's extremely serious. Paterno reported it as some thing extremely disturbing of a sexual nature so even if he didn't know the full extent of it he knew it was bad.

Now the McQueary father and son...there is no wiggle room there. This guy was an eye-witness, did nothing at the time, and continued to just stand around doing nothing while Sandusky continued to show up on campus with kids. They both knew exactly what happened.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on November 09, 2011, 01:05:35 PM
How much good mojo offsets allowing a serial child molester to continue working at your place of business?  How do you not go straight to the police with that shit?

Lots of people put blinders on when it comes to their family, which it sounds like this dude pretty much was for Paterno - it's retarded, because it usually ends up hurting everyone more, but it isn't exactly rare.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on November 09, 2011, 01:05:55 PM
I think that part of my issue with this, as it stands, is that I feel the administration is offering up Paterno as a sacrifice when they know that this could bring down the entire administration of Penn State.  He's a player in this, sure, but he's not the guiltiest by any stretch of the imagination.  All this wrangling from Penn State about Paterno is purely to take attention off of the administration and that is also reprehensible.
 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on November 09, 2011, 01:08:17 PM
Yeah, the people it was bumped up to not doing shit about it is the part that I find hardest to understand.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on November 09, 2011, 01:10:57 PM
Honestly, I think the entire board, the president, and anyone else that even caught wind of this should eventually be gone.  

Edit:  Which is where this whole thing seems to be headed (http://tracking.si.com/2011/11/09/report-penn-state-president-graham-spanier-will-quit-or-be-fired-by-end-of-wednesday/?sct=hp_t2_a4&eref=sihp).  Penn State president supposedly out.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Margalis on November 09, 2011, 01:16:53 PM
In a "the buck stops nowhere" situation like this you basically have to clean house. You can get endless finger-pointing, claims of garbled messages, each guy can say he expected somebody else to do something or the person reporting to him minimized what happened.

If the claim is "the system failed" then get rid of the people who make up the failing system. They fostered an environment where an entire chain of people can hear about sexual abuse of minors and do nothing.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: WayAbvPar on November 09, 2011, 01:26:02 PM
They really have no choice. This is going to hang over the program for the next 50 years anyway; best thing is to rip the bandage off and let the healing start. I hope everyone responsible gets what they deserve, and I don't mean a nice retirement plan.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Malakili on November 09, 2011, 01:30:14 PM
I'm going to put this in Random Sports Discussion, for the lulz.

https://www.esbl.co/


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on November 09, 2011, 04:24:31 PM
One of my colleagues mentioned that he believes that Paterno has dementia.  He is a fan and says that in his interviews that he typically seems agitated or just not completely there.  This may not be far from the truth.  Paterno has been operating on cruise control for a long time. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Outlawedprod on November 09, 2011, 05:18:07 PM
Disturbing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMnq52jZejQ


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on November 09, 2011, 05:49:14 PM
Lovely...this whole thing just turns my stomach. Couple that with my already pissed off feelings about conference expansion this year, and the Cam Newton fiasco, and the Ohio State fallout.

I don't know, it's just getting harder to support college football in any capacity. Granted not all programs are dirty or are hiding child molestors, but it just shows you that even when something is so fucking wrong at the very core of morality they STILL won't report it. We all know and gloss over the educational bullshit, the money bullshit, but MAN. At some point it makes you question why you're a fan when these guys are the ones supposedly representing your institution.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on November 09, 2011, 06:58:08 PM
The Sandusky thing isn't really a college football problem as such, more of a "any big entity with a reputation to maintain" problem. It's way way bigger than college sports; I'd bet good money that major corporations and charities and religious groups (beyond just the Catholic church) also sweep this stuff (and other things that would cause major embarrassments) under the rug more often than not. It doesn't really enter into it for me when thinking of the way that college sports fuck up in general, not the way that stuff that's actually specific to them does.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Margalis on November 09, 2011, 07:34:00 PM
It's related to college sports in that Paterno and Sandusky are only big important figures that are protected because of how fucked up college football is.

For fuck's sake Sandusky was an assistant coach. It's absurd that somebody in that position is important enough to not immediately be thrown under the bus. The only thing that matters in bigtime college football is money. That should be abundantly clear to anyone. And it matters so much that at many places college football is more important than anything else the institution does.

Here you have a situation where the University clearly decided that putting kids in danger was less important than protecting the football program. (And everything that comes with it) Would this have played out the same way if it was an assistant swim coach? I'm guessing no.

The fact that you can compare a college football program to a major corporation or a religious organization really says something.



Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on November 09, 2011, 08:05:48 PM
It's really the college as an institution making the decision, not just the football program though. A big college like Penn State is a multi-billion dollar enterprise and they have a lot of their 'brand' invested in the football program. A scandal like this will impact far more than just the athletic department, it will affect their ability to attract and retain good faculty, grad students, etc. But let's say some school whose brand is very valuable and unrelated to athletics entirely - say a Harvard or a University of Chicago - gets caught in a similar situation, covering up a high-profile faculty member's decades-long pattern of abuse. They'd be in much the same sort of deep water with the same sort of consequences PR-wise, and it wouldn't have anything to do with athletics.

In other words, I think there are things that are fucked up with college sports that are created by the weird business of college sports, and then there are things that are fucked up in a more general way and this is one of the latter.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Chimpy on November 09, 2011, 08:32:38 PM
The entire Penn State campus is deeply tied to Paterno. It is not just the athletics. The main library is named for him, he is one of their biggest donors to the campus (a large portion of his salary over the years has gone back to the university in donations) as a whole.



Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Margalis on November 09, 2011, 08:51:52 PM
It's really the college as an institution making the decision, not just the football program though. A big college like Penn State is a multi-billion dollar enterprise and they have a lot of their 'brand' invested in the football program.

The fact that the Penn State brand is so tied to the football program is part of the problem.

Quote
But let's say some school whose brand is very valuable and unrelated to athletics entirely - say a Harvard or a University of Chicago - gets caught in a similar situation, covering up a high-profile faculty member's decades-long pattern of abuse.

Why is an assistant coach a high profile faculty member? We aren't talking about covering up for a nobel prize winning chemist, this guy was a fucking assistant coach on a sports team. And let's get real, Penn State is probably much more likely to cover up for a football coach than for a chemistry professor.

The fact that the most important people on campus are all related to the football program is pathetic.

There is a fundamental problem with bigtime college sports being huge money makers, hugely influential, dwarfing actual academics while not being considered pro leagues and not paying players. People really need to wake up and see these programs for what they are - professional-level programs that hide behind academics as a way to exploit players.

How is single-A baseball professional and college football not?


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on November 09, 2011, 08:56:04 PM
That's not really true, but they are the most visible people, certainly.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Margalis on November 09, 2011, 08:58:03 PM
Meh, I've said my piece on this. Big time college football is corrupt to the core. Anything for a dollar.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on November 09, 2011, 09:02:09 PM
There's certainly nobody of more symbolic importance, but there are dozens of people more important to the actual functioning of things, even on his own coaching staff he's a figurehead now.

Penn State is an enormous public research university with close to 100,000 students when you count up all their campuses. Even a program like their football program is just a drop in the bucket at a place like that.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on November 09, 2011, 09:08:26 PM
Joe's done. They fired him.

It's the right call, but it's too little too late after Joe said he wanted to stay on.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on November 09, 2011, 09:09:17 PM
One down, probably about 30 to go.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Chimpy on November 09, 2011, 09:16:19 PM
So Illinois goes down in the record books as both the team to make Paterno the winningest coach in Div-I and the last team to lose to him.





Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on November 09, 2011, 09:21:13 PM
If he'd made it one more game he'd have the record for most games coached all to himself, as it is he ends tied with Amos Alonzo Stagg apparently.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: caladein on November 10, 2011, 12:51:09 AM
I feel like I missed something because I don't understand how we've gone from an indictment to "Holy shit fire everyone."


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Rasix on November 10, 2011, 01:06:45 AM
I'm sure it's just a big misunderstanding. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Hawkbit on November 10, 2011, 01:30:14 AM
I feel like I missed something because I don't understand how we've gone from an indictment to "Holy shit fire everyone."

Because any person who had knowledge of this situation before it came to light and didn't report it (read: everyone involved) needs their fucking head chopped right off.  I have no tolerance for people that feed on children.

This was the final straw with me and college sports.  I was on hiatus this year as an OSU fan, taking a break from the fallout.  But this shit takes the cake.  This guy is supposed to be one of the good guys; a hero.  And he failed to do the right thing in a big, big way.   From now on I'm 100% pro, where I know it's about the money, murderers and rapists.  At least there I know I can't trust anyone.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Abagadro on November 10, 2011, 01:35:12 AM
I feel like I missed something because I don't understand how we've gone from an indictment to "Holy shit fire everyone."

Trustees are now involved which means two things: money and politics.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Cyrrex on November 10, 2011, 01:42:46 AM
Being in a position of clear authority and not making sure that action was taken makes you the biggest asshole imagineable.  Shit, at least some of the other douchebags involved in this had some reason to fear for their livelihoods due to being in somewhat inferior positions (which also doesn't excuse them one fucking bit). Fuck "JoePa" in his tiny asshole.  With any luck he'll also die very soon, piece of shit.  Better yet, put some lipstick on him and throw him in a cell with Sandusky.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: caladein on November 10, 2011, 01:55:56 AM
I feel like I missed something because I don't understand how we've gone from an indictment to "Holy shit fire everyone."
Trustees are now involved which means two things: money and politics.

I agree.  The trustees getting rid of Paterno and the school president immediately is the only real course of action they had available.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Abagadro on November 10, 2011, 02:02:54 AM
This place is facing MASSIVE civil liability right now.  The Trustees are shitting their collective britches and heads are going to roll for anyone who even tangentially touched this thing. I wouldn't be surprised if the entire athletic department and coaching staff is purged.  How this all happened in basically the middle of the entire Catholic Church scandal is beyond me.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Cyrrex on November 10, 2011, 02:15:42 AM
Because a lot of human beings absolutely suck?


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Abagadro on November 10, 2011, 02:23:19 AM
I suspect other shoes are going to drop.  There is so much weirdness surrounding this whole sordid affair.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on November 10, 2011, 06:16:45 AM
I suspect other shoes are going to drop.  There is so much weirdness surrounding this whole sordid affair.

There certainly is an air of impending doom about the situation.  I suspect that there has to be something else lurking underneath all this for them to outright fire Paterno. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Chimpy on November 10, 2011, 07:21:46 AM
A large portion (if not all) of the trustees are going to be ousted as well I bet.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Mosesandstick on November 10, 2011, 07:25:59 AM
Back to basketball!

Forbes doesn't believe the owners too (http://www.forbes.com/sites/prishe/2011/11/09/likely-nba-labor-resolution-will-transfer-250-275-million-from-players-to-owners/2/)

Quote
When you tally the aggregate projected operating incomes of all 30 NBA teams, this yields a surplus of $182.6 million.

Granted, Forbes may not be privy to all the financial data that ultimately determine a team’s financial position…and their estimates have come under scrutiny before for this reason.

But $482.6 million off?  That seems a stretch.

Even if Forbes’ operating income estimates are inflated by 25% (which I seriously doubt), you’re still looking at $137 million in aggregate profits.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on November 10, 2011, 07:28:56 AM
I'm so disinterested in the rich versus the rich.  They can all rot, for all I care.  The only pro sport that has any merit at all to me any more is the NFL. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on November 10, 2011, 10:04:42 AM
This place is facing MASSIVE civil liability right now.  The Trustees are shitting their collective britches and heads are going to roll for anyone who even tangentially touched this thing. I wouldn't be surprised if the entire athletic department and coaching staff is purged.  How this all happened in basically the middle of the entire Catholic Church scandal is beyond me.

Yeah, there's the part that blows my mind. This was all going on when the whole Catholic priests raping boys scandal was constant front page news. As school admins, you HAD to know this would blow the fuck up on them. My only thought is that at the time, they didn't want to be equated with kiddy-diddling rapriests. But see, that would have been the PERFECT time to jump out in front of it, admit this guy was diddling kids on campus and show how proactive you are the community and the world at large. The PR heat on Penn State would have lasted maybe a fucking week and then forgotten as a blip in the larger scheme of things. Did they really think this was not going to eventually come out? Did they think this was like some isolated incident? It would have been one thing to cover up an affair with a male or female college student. At least then you could fall back on the consenting adult thing. But kids? Ass-raping kids?

There's just not one excuse good enough to explain why anyone involved didn't report this to at the very least the University police. You just cannot justify it at all. It's kids, for fuck's sake. There's no wiggle room there.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on November 10, 2011, 10:39:03 AM
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7215664/penn-state-nittany-lions-mike-mcqueary-coach-weekend

So just to be clear: the EYE WITNESS to this whole thing was not only not fired, but will be on the sidelines this weekend whereas the man who he reported to, JoePa, and everyone else up the ladder is gone.
 :uhrr:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on November 10, 2011, 10:40:39 AM
Won't last. Expect him to be fired by the end of the day.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: slog on November 10, 2011, 11:38:14 AM
Quote
"I can give you a rumor and I can give you something I think might happen," Madden told John Dennis and Gerry Callahan. "I hear there's a rumor that there will be a more shocking development from the Second Mile Foundation -- and hold on to your stomachs, boys, this is gross, I will use the only language I can -- that Jerry Sandusky and Second Mile were pimping out young boys to rich donors. That was being investigated by two prominent columnists even as I speak."

http://www.nesn.com/2011/11/jerry-sandusky-rumored-to-have-been-pimping-out-young-boys-to-rich-donors-says-mark-madden.html


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: WayAbvPar on November 10, 2011, 11:42:22 AM
I will be shocked if he lives through the holidays. Either he will sack up and kill himself or someone will take him out.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on November 10, 2011, 11:43:10 AM
Death penalty is too good for this fuckstick.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Threash on November 10, 2011, 11:55:27 AM
Mike McQueary wasn't just any old grad assistant...he was a former record-setting quarterback at Penn State. He'd worked with JoePa on a regular basis for years on and off the field. This was not some kid who was scared to come in and talk to Joe.  He cannot possibly on the field their next game, that would be a god damn circus.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on November 10, 2011, 12:06:13 PM
Quote
"I can give you a rumor and I can give you something I think might happen," Madden told John Dennis and Gerry Callahan. "I hear there's a rumor that there will be a more shocking development from the Second Mile Foundation -- and hold on to your stomachs, boys, this is gross, I will use the only language I can -- that Jerry Sandusky and Second Mile were pimping out young boys to rich donors. That was being investigated by two prominent columnists even as I speak."

http://www.nesn.com/2011/11/jerry-sandusky-rumored-to-have-been-pimping-out-young-boys-to-rich-donors-says-mark-madden.html

That sounds far fetched. Were it true, the Penn State football program ends.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Outlawedprod on November 10, 2011, 12:11:53 PM
The onion is our voice of reason.
http://www.onionsportsnetwork.com/articles/sports-media-asks-molestation-victims-what-this-me,26609/


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Outlawedprod on November 10, 2011, 12:14:51 PM
That sounds far fetched. Were it true, the Penn State football program ends.

Not the first time this rumor has been brought up online.
https://twitter.com/#!/dan_bernstein/status/134103234724896768


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Hawkbit on November 10, 2011, 12:43:13 PM
Not sure anyone linked this yet or not, but in case you want your stomach to churn for a few days:

http://cbschicago.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/sandusky-grand-jury-presentment.pdf


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on November 10, 2011, 01:23:15 PM
Yeah, I read the Grand Jury presentment. Before I had read it, I wasn't sure how bad the whole thing was. After... it's fucking bad. It's goddamn monstrous. There's a pattern of predatory behavior on this guy dated back close to 20 years, and that's just from the 8 kids they've put to the grand jury. There's no telling how many others there are that haven't come forward. And if the rumor about rich donors thing is true... Paelos may be right, that shit is OVER. Who is going to donate money to the program now if all it'll get you is a reputation as a kiddy diddler?


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on November 10, 2011, 01:30:47 PM
Yeah, I read the Grand Jury presentment. Before I had read it, I wasn't sure how bad the whole thing was. After... it's fucking bad. It's goddamn monstrous. There's a pattern of predatory behavior on this guy dated back close to 20 years, and that's just from the 8 kids they've put to the grand jury. There's no telling how many others there are that haven't come forward. And if the rumor about rich donors thing is true... Paelos may be right, that shit is OVER. Who is going to donate money to the program now if all it'll get you is a reputation as a kiddy diddler?

It's not only that, it's the civil suits, the criminal suits, the conspiracy charges, it would just be too much to bear. The NCAA wouldn't have any say in it. The Penn Legislature would feel too much political pressure to shut it down.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on November 10, 2011, 02:18:12 PM
To be clear the donors in question in the rumor, at least as far as I've heard, were not Penn State donors but rather donors to Second Mile.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Outlawedprod on November 10, 2011, 03:14:53 PM
How deep does it go?

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/penn_state_child_sex-abuse_sca.html

"During our own investigation, years later, the mother told us that she had been specifically instructed by state police not to speak with reporters. No charges were filed against Sandusky in 1998. With the mother cowed into silence, the incident remained buried. "


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on November 10, 2011, 03:23:50 PM
That's pretty fucking huge if it turns out the coverup goes well outside of just PSU and maybe the charity.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Merusk on November 10, 2011, 03:41:02 PM
If you don't understand just how deep into the community this went, you haven't been paying attention to the Cult Of JoPa bent to all the discussions or you think that's normal shit.

As one guy I know put it.  "Football is big at Penn, but JoPa eclipsed Football."

When you have people rioting and leaving classes in tears and saying "he was like a grandfather to me" about a man they've never met.  Something's fucking weird and that weirdness is going to go too deep for sanity.



Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on November 10, 2011, 05:28:21 PM
What are the odds that Sandusky ends up dead this weekend?


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on November 10, 2011, 05:35:55 PM
What are the odds that Sandusky ends up dead this weekend?

I would have to say 50:50. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: koro on November 10, 2011, 06:57:18 PM
That's pretty fucking huge if it turns out the coverup goes well outside of just PSU and maybe the charity.

This rabbit hole is going to go a long way down before this is all said and done, especially if the "sex ring" allegations turn out to be true.

For instance, the current governor of PA, Tom Corbett, gave a speech earlier today condemning everyone at Penn State who was a part of this fiasco and called the rioters "knuckleheads". Corbett (who as governor, is a member of the board of trustees at Penn State), also served two terms as state Attorney General, the most recent from 2005 to January of this year. This also covers the time during the grand jury investigation, whose details and severity he was undoubtedly aware of.

At no point during his current tenure as a trustee did he make any moves to keep Sandusky off of campus, despite Sandusky being on campus just days before his indictments and flouting the restrictions on his bringing children on campus as late as 2008.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on November 10, 2011, 10:01:20 PM
Hmm.  Nebraska has asked their fans to not wear red to the game in Happy Valley.  Penn State fans are pushing the limits here.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on November 10, 2011, 10:12:04 PM
Hmm.  Nebraska has asked their fans to not wear red to the game in Happy Valley.  Penn State fans are pushing the limits here.

Why would they not want their fans wearing red?


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: koro on November 10, 2011, 10:20:41 PM
Cornhuskers colors are red and white. There is fear that angry Penn State fans will lash out and attack Nebraska fans.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Hawkbit on November 11, 2011, 12:55:23 AM
This adds a new layer of complexity:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45244328/ns/local_news-philadelphia_pa/#.TrzJB0PiE8l

Quote
DA who didn't charge Sandusky missing since 2005


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on November 11, 2011, 05:52:53 AM
Cornhuskers colors are red and white. There is fear that angry Penn State fans will lash out and attack Nebraska fans.

:facepalm:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on November 11, 2011, 07:50:10 AM
Cornhuskers colors are red and white. There is fear that angry Penn State fans will lash out and attack Nebraska fans.

Please. If drunken rednecks can keep it together, I expect those educated Yankees can stop from throwing their wine glasses at each other during a game.  :grin:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: koro on November 11, 2011, 09:37:51 AM
Cornhuskers colors are red and white. There is fear that angry Penn State fans will lash out and attack Nebraska fans.

:facepalm:

Hey, I'm not the one who gave it as the reason why.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7215871/nebraska-cornhuskers-tom-osborne-asks-fans-not-wear-read-game-vs-penn-state-nittany-lions


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on November 11, 2011, 09:42:39 AM
After the way the Penn State population rioted after Paterno was fired I am not sure that isn't such a bad precaution.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on November 11, 2011, 09:54:53 AM
After the way the Penn State population rioted after Paterno was fired I am not sure that isn't such a bad precaution.

Or what, they release actual nittany lions on the populace? Or spray them with firehoses? They are so incensed by the firing of JoePa that they take out their rage on unsuspecting midwesterners that didn't even show up in the conference until this year?

Again, this is stupid, reactionary shit. Wear your colors Nebraska fans. Wear them proudly. Just don't make inappropriate signage. Go in there, lay the smackdown on a team that will be reeling, and exit with a classy win.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on November 11, 2011, 10:12:44 AM
Again, this is stupid, reactionary shit.

Yes.  You're correct.  We've hardly seen any stupid, reactionary shit from Penn State so far.   :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on November 11, 2011, 10:14:08 AM
I think there's probably 30 knuckleheads at Penn State, who will be easily controlled on gameday.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on November 11, 2011, 10:17:50 AM
Maybe so.  Nothing wrong with being cautious if it doesn't hurt anyone else. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on November 11, 2011, 10:58:27 AM
Maybe so.  Nothing wrong with being cautious if it doesn't hurt anyone else. 

Kinda like the Patriot Act eh?  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on November 11, 2011, 11:02:33 AM
Yes.  Not wearing a red shirt is exactly like the patriot act.   :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on November 11, 2011, 11:06:12 AM
This adds a new layer of complexity:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45244328/ns/local_news-philadelphia_pa/#.TrzJB0PiE8l

Quote
DA who didn't charge Sandusky missing since 2005

No, THIS is the weird bit:

Quote
This district attorney who had “a bitter taste in his mouth for the [Penn State] program, and its coach,” according to his nephew, and yet never prosecuted Sandusky, disappeared on April 15, 2005, after telling his girlfriend that he was going on a drive.

Ray Gricar’s car was found the next day in a Lewisburg parking lot and his laptop, sans hard drive, was found in the Susquehanna River, according to the Patriot-News.

Laptop hard drive thrown in the river? Sounds like a hit to me.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: naum on November 11, 2011, 01:04:38 PM
This adds a new layer of complexity:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45244328/ns/local_news-philadelphia_pa/#.TrzJB0PiE8l

Quote
DA who didn't charge Sandusky missing since 2005

No, THIS is the weird bit:

Quote
This district attorney who had “a bitter taste in his mouth for the [Penn State] program, and its coach,” according to his nephew, and yet never prosecuted Sandusky, disappeared on April 15, 2005, after telling his girlfriend that he was going on a drive.

Ray Gricar’s car was found the next day in a Lewisburg parking lot and his laptop, sans hard drive, was found in the Susquehanna River, according to the Patriot-News.

Laptop hard drive thrown in the river? Sounds like a hit to me.

NY Times article (http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2011/11/11/da-involved-in-penn-state-pedophile-scandal-missing-since-2005/) on the story also contained this blurb:

Quote
The next day, Gricar’s Mini Cooper was found in a parking lot in Lewisburg, about 50 miles from his home in Bellefonte. Gricar’s cellphone was in the car, but not his laptop, wallet or keys, which were never recovered. Months later, the laptop was found in the Susquehanna River without its hard drive, which was discovered later. It was too damaged to yield any information. On the fourth anniversary of his disappearance, investigators revealed that a search of his home computer yielded a history of Internet searches for phrases like “how to wreck a hard drive,” according to a report at the time in The Centre Daily Times.



Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on November 11, 2011, 01:19:15 PM
Cornhuskers colors are red and white. There is fear that angry Penn State fans will lash out and attack Nebraska fans.

Please. If drunken rednecks can keep it together, I expect those educated Yankees can stop from throwing their wine glasses at each other during a game.  :grin:

Yeah... you've never actually been to central Pennsylvania, have you? There's a reason they call it Pennsyltucky.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on November 11, 2011, 01:27:32 PM
But they are high class! They've told us so!


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on November 11, 2011, 01:30:16 PM
Laptop hard drive thrown in the river? Sounds like a hit to me.


Absolutely this is fishy. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Merusk on November 11, 2011, 01:58:12 PM
Not surprising in any way, shape or form.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Threash on November 12, 2011, 08:26:05 AM
Anyone else think Mcqueary is getting too much of a pass on this? some people are even saying he's the only one who did the "right thing".  That's bullshit, you see a boy getting pounded up the ass in the locker room by a grown ass man you call the cops, you don't go to your bosses first to find out what they want to do about it.  Honestly i think he is the biggest culprit here, being the one who actually witnessed the abuse first hand.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Abagadro on November 12, 2011, 10:20:18 AM
There are also rumors that he was the main source for the Grand Jury though, so maybe he ultimately did the right thing.  Doesn't excuse his earlier conduct, but maybe mitigates it a bit. No idea if this is the case, but it might be an explanation as to why.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Trippy on November 12, 2011, 02:13:23 PM
Another theory is that the school is worried he might be protected by Pennsylvania's Whistleblower law so firing him at this time might get...complicated...though as you noted earlier they are soon to be knee deep in lawsuits so what's one more among friends?


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Hawkbit on November 12, 2011, 06:38:24 PM
Anyone else think Mcqueary is getting too much of a pass on this? some people are even saying he's the only one who did the "right thing".  That's bullshit, you see a boy getting pounded up the ass in the locker room by a grown ass man you call the cops, you don't go to your bosses first to find out what they want to do about it.  Honestly i think he is the biggest culprit here, being the one who actually witnessed the abuse first hand.

My issue isn't so much with the lack of police intervention from him immediately.  I'd wager he was really, really lost for awhile after seeing that.  He did the right thing telling his bosses and likely assumed that they would get police intervention going. 

My problem is how, six months later, he must have come to the realization that this was being swept under the rug.  That's what gets me; the absolute lack of justice.  He likely thought "Well, I told my bosses.  They'll do the right thing."  And when they didn't, he failed to do the right thing too.  And for that, he deserves to go down on this just as bad as the rest. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Threash on November 12, 2011, 07:05:26 PM
I just don't see how any reasonable man can think telling their boss is the correct course of action after what he saw unless his main concern was finding out how they wanted to deal with it, not justice.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on November 12, 2011, 07:53:03 PM
I just don't see how any reasonable man can think telling their boss is the correct course of action after what he saw unless his main concern was finding out how they wanted to deal with it, not justice.

To be fair, it was the right course of action. The wrong course of action was doing nothing after finding out the dude was still wandering around after you reported him, and the wrong thing was not insisting that they get the police involved.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Cyrrex on November 13, 2011, 04:48:02 AM
When you are the witness to a crime, you don't go tell your neighbor, your pastor, your friend or your boss first.  You tell the police.  If I saw someone getting murdered at work, telling my boss would be the last thing on my mind.  The only reason anyone thinks that him telling his boss and expecting his boss to follow through with the authorities was the right course of action is because, despite everything that is happening, we STILL cannot stop treating these football programs as they are special and deserve special treatment.  Had I seen this happening, the first thing I would have done was grab a heavy, blunt object and ensure that this motherfucker ceased what he was doing ASAP.  I would then call the police.  No reasonable person defaults to telling the boss first.  Fuck that bullshit and anyone spouting it.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on November 13, 2011, 09:22:38 AM
In an institutional setting like this I think McQeary did the right thing going to his superiors first for something like this.  I can forgive him a little.  Paterno should have absolutely handled things differently, but then again he was getting second hand knowledge.  The real failure is at the highest levels for failing to fully investigate and prevent. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Threash on November 13, 2011, 12:39:25 PM
I just don't see how any reasonable man can think telling their boss is the correct course of action after what he saw unless his main concern was finding out how they wanted to deal with it, not justice.

To be fair, it was the right course of action.

Bullshit, it was the bare legal cover your ass minimum.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on November 13, 2011, 12:46:55 PM
In an institutional setting like this I think McQeary did the right thing going to his superiors first for something like this.  I can forgive him a little.  Paterno should have absolutely handled things differently, but then again he was getting second hand knowledge.  The real failure is at the highest levels for failing to fully investigate and prevent. 

I think you can blame everyone quite a lot, really, but I have a little less sympathy for McQueary than for Paterno. Paterno was an old guy who probably didn't want to believe his friend of many years could actually do what people told him - denial is the most powerful force in the universe when it comes to family and close friends. McQueary actually saw it and had to see that the only result was a cover-up. I can kind of understand being in shock initially and just not doing anything but go to the coach, but I'm definitely with Hawkbit that 6 months later he should have thought "what the fuck?" and called the cops.

Ultimately prison for the higher ups and lost jobs for Paterno and McQueary feels about "right" to me. (Assuming of course it's all true blah blah blah.)


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on November 13, 2011, 02:33:00 PM
McQueary told his superiors.  I suppose he could have called the police, but once he told his superiors I would imagine that he expected them to take care of it.  I doubt very seriously he would have thought to "go over Paterno's head" to the police because Paterno and the AD should have done the right thing.  He probably didn't hear anything else about it and assumed that it was taken care of.  I doubt that he was thinking cover up.  He was in a hard spot though and I think that any of us in that position would have had a hard time doing anything differently, even though we might pound our chests on the F13 forum and talk about how we would have "kicked Sandusky's ass".


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Merusk on November 13, 2011, 02:40:23 PM
Let's change it a bit then.

You own a practice, i assume you have one hygienist/ nurse who supervises others.   She's told that one of her charges is stealing some controlled substance or another from you and selling them on the black market.  She does nothing and the one that told her never notifies you.  You're saying the only one responsible here is the lead?  After all, the other told her supervisor.

Do you think - should it come out - the medical board would hold you harmless for not knowing what was going down?  After all, you weren't told.. and the other nurse had - in your opinion - done her duty.



Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on November 13, 2011, 02:49:56 PM
I'm not saying McQeary shouldn't have some consequences.  Should he be fired?  Probably.  I just think that he was in a tough position and, while he could have done more, I understand why he did what he did. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on November 13, 2011, 03:48:50 PM
Bullshit, it was the bare legal cover your ass minimum.

You're armchair quarterbacking. Nobody can say how they react to a situation that is hypothetical until they are put in that situation. You go to put your shoes in your locker and see one of your superiors nailing a kid in the ass? I mean the shock value alone on that is ridiculous.

Second, sometimes people don't immediately react in the best way as their first reaction. He's part of the program and he had probably been told a bajillion times that if you see something bizarre, tell the head coach. So he did. Now, after that he should have called the police when he saw nothing happened. He should be blamed a million times over and over for that.

However, I get sick of people saying what they would have done immediately. Bullshit on that. You have no idea. You can think you know. You can be SURE you know. But when rubber meets the road is when character is revealed, and McQueary lacked character when after the shock had worn off, he did nothing.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Abagadro on November 13, 2011, 05:00:52 PM
Sandusky wasn't his superior. He had been out of his position for several years at that point.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: WayAbvPar on November 13, 2011, 06:19:37 PM
I am frankly shocked at some of the posts here. It isn't like McQueary saw someone cheating on their taxes, or jaywalking, or paying off a recruit's family. He saw another human being being physically assaulted by someone bigger, stronger, and older than the victim and did NOTHING to stop it, and didn't even alert the authorities. He is an abject coward at the very best, and criminally liable at the worst. I hope that kid's friends and/or family burns his fucking house down with him in it. Fuck him eternally.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on November 13, 2011, 11:37:32 PM
I honestly don't know if I would have been able to do anything immediate to stop it myself. I have literally no idea how I would react. I mean, I can say how I'd like to think I would react, but you can't know until something like that actually happens in front of you what your real reaction would be, IMO.

But if I did react like him at the time, if a few months go by, I still see this guy in the weight room, and clearly nothing has happened? Then you can bet I'd be asking my boss 'wtf' and calling the cops if the answer I get isn't really fucking good.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Cyrrex on November 14, 2011, 12:56:16 AM
I am frankly shocked at some of the posts here. It isn't like McQueary saw someone cheating on their taxes, or jaywalking, or paying off a recruit's family. He saw another human being being physically assaulted by someone bigger, stronger, and older than the victim and did NOTHING to stop it, and didn't even alert the authorities. He is an abject coward at the very best, and criminally liable at the worst. I hope that kid's friends and/or family burns his fucking house down with him in it. Fuck him eternally.

Thank you.

They guy was raping a kid.  I can absolutely guarantee that I would have gone ape-shit on him, and damn the consequences.  I don't doubt for a minute that other people would react differently and not know what to do in the immediate situation - but ANYTHING that doesn't lead to calling the cops within 24 hours (six months?!  WTF are you people smoking?) is practically accessory to the crime as far as I am concerned.  RAPING A KID, you fucking cockweasles.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on November 14, 2011, 01:00:16 AM
You're freaked out, you go to your mentor, he tells you he'll take care of it. You don't necesarily know how long police investigations take, so you wait a while and figure that the dude you trust is taking care of things. I just said 'a few months' because that is the point it should become clear to even the most oblivious person that something is Not Getting Done.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Cyrrex on November 14, 2011, 01:07:39 AM
Sorry, but that doesn't pass the bullshit test.  No reasonable person reports a violent, heinous crime to their "mentor" and expects it to get cleared up within months.  Seriously, what the shit?  Because it's "an institution" we are allowed to act differently?  Like the catholic church I suppose?


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on November 14, 2011, 01:37:33 AM
All I'm saying is I find it pretty easy to understand how shit like this (well not Sandusky's part, that's mental illness of the least understandable sort, I mean the failures of the lower level guys involved) ends up happening. It's nothing to do with the "institution" or anything, not really.

It's easy for all of us to stand on principle when we weren't you know, there. I really fucking hope I wouldn't make any of the same mistakes that this guy did (and that I never have to find out) but fuck, who hasn't made the exact wrong decision under extreme pressure/stress/emotional fuckedupness at some point?

It's the failure to be able to look back at some point during the ensuing months and have any kind of perspective that makes you say "OK, I need to take this into my own hands and call the cops or he's going to get away with it." That's the part that is way more fucked up. The initial response is just regular old human weakness... probably. It could be all a big cover up conspiracy even from 1998, sure. It would sure make everything simpler, just send every last one of em to prison then.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Cyrrex on November 14, 2011, 01:42:17 AM
Fine - I get it that people can and will react differently.  But that's also the difference between doing the right thing and being a culpable asshole, as far as I am concerned.  He did not do the right thing by any reasonable standard, and should be prosecuted as a result.

You'll forgive me if I am raging on you, Ingmar...I have two young sons, and just the thought of this happening to some other kid puts me into a rage.   :angryfist:  Nothing personal.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on November 14, 2011, 09:22:54 AM
Fine - I get it that people can and will react differently.  But that's also the difference between doing the right thing and being a culpable asshole, as far as I am concerned.  He did not do the right thing by any reasonable standard, and should be prosecuted as a result.

You'll forgive me if I am raging on you, Ingmar...I have two young sons, and just the thought of this happening to some other kid puts me into a rage.   :angryfist:  Nothing personal.

I think all of us here would say that what Sandusky did is despicable and that McQueary should have done things differently.  It's probably silly to rant about what anyone would have done if they were in that situation, however, because none of us are McQueary.  If that attorney truly did get knocked off it is possible that he even feared for his life. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on November 14, 2011, 10:15:21 AM
I just don't see how any reasonable man can think telling their boss is the correct course of action after what he saw unless his main concern was finding out how they wanted to deal with it, not justice.

He also waited until the next morning to tell those bosses. At first, I had a little bit of sympathy for him, because I thought he ran right out to JoePa's house and told him. Nope, he waited until the next morning, didn't call the police (which really is what he should have done immediately if he saw some old fucker cornholing a 10-year old) and then never followed up on just why this kiddy-diddler wasn't in jail.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on November 14, 2011, 10:19:59 AM
We all admit he's a gutless dipshit. I don't think that's in question.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on November 14, 2011, 10:31:08 AM
We all admit he's a gutless dipshit. I don't think that's in question.

I was thinking he was more of a spineless douchebag.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Trippy on November 14, 2011, 10:12:43 PM
Sandusky to Bob Costas in exclusive 'Rock Center' interview: 'I shouldn't have showered with those kids.' (http://rockcenter.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/11/14/8804779-jerry-sandusky-to-bob-costas-in-exclusive-rock-center-interview-i-shouldnt-have-showered-with-those-kids)

Guilty as fuck. :oh_i_see:



Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on November 14, 2011, 10:20:03 PM
The article says that he is the father of 6 adopted children.  It will be interesting to see if any of them come forward with allegations.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Cyrrex on November 16, 2011, 12:11:24 AM
McQueary has apparently said in an email to a friend that he did stop the act in progress, and did go to the police.  May have been only campus police.

http://news.yahoo.com/email-tv-talk-add-twists-penn-state-case-010955698.html (http://news.yahoo.com/email-tv-talk-add-twists-penn-state-case-010955698.html)

If true, then he isn't the complete shitbag I thought he was, only a partial one for not following through.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on November 16, 2011, 06:10:45 AM
In a lot of places campus police = real police.  I wonder what actually transpired with that.  If he did go to the police and they blew it off it could get a whole lot hairier for Penn State.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Cyrrex on November 16, 2011, 06:46:52 AM
The article sorta leads me to believe that, in this case, campus police are not real police.  But on the other hand, I don't think the article was clear or not on whether he may have also gone to the real police.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on November 16, 2011, 07:23:25 AM
I would seriously doubt that Penn State campus police aren't real police.  And if he reported it to them I would assume there would be some form of official report.  That claim could come back to bite him in the ass.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Cyrrex on November 16, 2011, 07:29:30 AM
Your probably right, but the article made it sound dubious to me if they were real police or not.

And if humans can be made to disappear in connection to this case ( :tinfoil: ) then making a police report go away is no problem.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on November 16, 2011, 07:38:25 AM
Yeah, they're real police (http://www.police.psu.edu/).  They employ 46 armed officers.

The kicker in all this is that apparently PSU is somehow exempt from the state of Pennsylvania's open records law (http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/16/us/pennsylvania-sandusky-case/index.html?hpt=hp_c1).  This seems absolutely fucking ridiculous for an institution that receives a lot of state money.  Because of this it may not come out until the trial. 

Quote
While every other commonwealth agency is subject to Pennsylvania's open records law, Penn State is exempt, making it difficult to get information about who knew what and when regarding the sex abuse claims.
Penn State, along with three other schools that receive state funds, don't fall under Pennsylvania's Right to Know Law, according to Terry Mutchler, the executive director of the state's Office of Open Records.
"If this were an investigation involving another university ... that did have a scandal at its doorstep, they were subject to the Right to Know Law," Mutchler told CNN.
"You were able to obtain, in that situation, e-mails, copies of incident reports at the police department, any kind of policies that came out with the Board of Trustees. That would all be available," she said. "At Penn State, however, that's off limits."
In 2007, state lawmakers considered a change that would have included the school under the open records law. But Spanier testified against the move before the House State Government Committee.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: naum on November 16, 2011, 10:05:14 AM
McQueary has apparently said in an email to a friend that he did stop the act in progress, and did go to the police.  May have been only campus police.

http://news.yahoo.com/email-tv-talk-add-twists-penn-state-case-010955698.html (http://news.yahoo.com/email-tv-talk-add-twists-penn-state-case-010955698.html)

If true, then he isn't the complete shitbag I thought he was, only a partial one for not following through.

It's just a big game of telephone -- everybody gave everybody an account, yet nothing much was done, other than eventually taking away the man's facility keys… …but he still went on to [allegedly] molest more boys on the Second Mile.

Guess it's the nature of being so insulated, so remote and where the athletic program is in complete control of its academic overseers, the media, the local law enforcement, etc.…


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on November 17, 2011, 08:25:45 PM
Holy Shit.  Bernie Fine, former Syracuse basketball assistant accused of molestation (http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/7248184/syracuse-police-investigating-bernie-fine-molesting-boy-1980s). 

Quote
He said that Boeheim knew he was traveling on the road and sleeping in Fine's room.

"Boeheim saw me with Bernie all the time in the hotel rooms, on road trips," Davis said. "He'd come in, and see me laying in the bed, kind of glance at me like, 'What are you doing here?' But he wouldn't say that. He'd just scowl. And I would look at him like, I'd be nervous. I felt embarrassed 'cause I felt stupid that I'm there. I'm not supposed to be here. I know it, and Boeheim's not stupid."

This could be it for Boeheim  as well.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on November 17, 2011, 09:48:33 PM
Oh this is starting to look good for the NCAA.  :ye_gods:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on November 18, 2011, 09:15:57 AM
Another Oklahoma State airplane incident (http://espn.go.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7250025/oklahoma-state-cowboys-coach-kurt-budke-assistant-miranda-serna-illed-plane-crash)

Women's coach Budke dies along with 3 other people.  That university is cursed. 

Quote
Oklahoma State women's basketball coach Kurt Budke and assistant Miranda Serna have died in a plane crash along with two others, just 10 months after the school commemorated the 10th anniversary of a crash that killed 10 men associated with the men's program.

The plane went down Thursday night in Perry County, Ark., killing the pilot and another individual not affiliated with the university, the school said in a news release. There were no survivors.

I don't like flying anyway, but I'll be damned if I'm getting in a puddle jumper. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on November 22, 2011, 07:51:42 AM
Here's (http://msn.foxsports.com/collegebasketball/story/bernie-fine-syracuse-story-irresposible-reporting-by-espn-112111) a nice article about the Bernie Fine situation.  It's by Jason Whitlock and he blasts ESPN for the uneven reporting on the situation.  He makes the point that you hear comments asking why the media aren't calling for Bernie Fine's head just like Paterno's, but that this is okay because they are different situations.  Much of what is being said about the Fine case is being pushed by ESPN for their own benefit in ratings.  I tend to agree with him on this. 

Quote
This column is not meant to exonerate Bernie Fine, whom Syracuse put on administrative leave pending an ESPN-driven police investigation into whether he sexually molested step brothers and former SU ball boys Bobby Davis and Mike Lang in the 1970s, '80s and ‘90s. I do not know Bernie Fine. I do not have any insight into what did or did not transpire between Fine and his two accusers.

What I do know, based on Schwarz’s juvenile “reporting,” is the Worldwide Leader didn’t have nearly enough evidence to air such a reputation-damaging story. Schwarz acquired just enough information — two vague, mumbling on-camera interviews from Fine’s accusers — to protect ESPN from a lawsuit. Schwarz did the legal minimum.

Was his story sound journalism? Was his story remotely fair? No, and hell no.

Let me repeat: I’m not exonerating Bernie Fine. I don’t know him. I don’t know what he’s capable of doing and/or hiding.

What I know is you don’t destroy a person’s reputation with two highly flimsy accusations. The accusations against Fine are nothing like the accusations against Jerry Sandusky. There were multiple eyewitnesses — including a Penn State assistant coach — to Sandusky’s alleged criminal behavior. There was a three-year investigation into Sandusky, a grand jury indictment, an arrest and a public statement by the Pennsylvania state police criticizing Paterno and McQueary for failing to meet their moral obligation.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on November 22, 2011, 08:32:35 AM
http://crownsports.blogspot.com/2011/11/sandusky-cover-up-scandal.html

Take it in the context that it is a blog entry, but the details outlined put a ton of stuff into the spotlight that probably are best served in the dark.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: RhyssaFireheart on November 22, 2011, 11:15:24 AM
http://crownsports.blogspot.com/2011/11/sandusky-cover-up-scandal.html

Take it in the context that it is a blog entry, but the details outlined put a ton of stuff into the spotlight that probably are best served in the dark.
The author needs to seriously learn the difference between than and then.  And how to use simple punctuation such as commas to help break up some of those run-on sentences.  It started getting hard to read after a while.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on November 22, 2011, 11:54:00 AM
http://crownsports.blogspot.com/2011/11/sandusky-cover-up-scandal.html

Take it in the context that it is a blog entry, but the details outlined put a ton of stuff into the spotlight that probably are best served in the dark.
The author needs to seriously learn the difference between than and then.  And how to use simple punctuation such as commas to help break up some of those run-on sentences.  It started getting hard to read after a while.

ABOUT ME


Hacksaw Hemingway
BA English, The Ohio State University 1997

 :grin:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: RhyssaFireheart on November 22, 2011, 11:57:00 AM
Well, I guess in his "defense" he posts a comment that he never expected to have so many hits on the blog and didn't bother to proofread the article.  I'm tempted to reply that nothing's stopping him from going back to proofread it now and fix all the mistakes. 

It's an example of people thinking that just because it's on the internet, they don't need to bother doing it right the first time.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on November 22, 2011, 09:28:15 PM
Or he's fucking lying, which is more likely.  There's better grammar on this website, and I guarantee you people don't usually proofread there their stuff here.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on November 23, 2011, 09:44:02 AM
Yeah, that article was TERRIBLE. His grammar and spelling were so bad I felt like there were missing words in sentences that would have made his meaning a lot clearer.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on November 23, 2011, 09:48:54 AM
It was a pretty informative article though, and did put together some nice points with references. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on November 27, 2011, 09:41:35 AM
Yeah, Bernie Fine is fucked (http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/7286347/otl-audio-tape-syracuse-orange-assistant-bernie-fine-wife-admits-worries-abuse).   :oh_i_see:

Boeheim should be held to the same standard as Paterno, et. al. and should probably be brought up on criminal charges.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on November 27, 2011, 11:08:23 AM
I don't think they can use her testimony though? Doesn't that fall under privilege?


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on November 27, 2011, 09:52:18 PM
I don't think they can use her testimony though? Doesn't that fall under privilege?

I have no idea, but this is going to break open soon.  

Edit:  It's just a matter of time until Boeheim gets canned (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/16264070/boeheims-statements-go-too-far-and-it-should-cost-him-his-job), and rightfully so. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on November 28, 2011, 01:04:13 PM
Bleh, that's at best fine-the-guy kind of talk, not fire-the-guy. You shouldn't really be firing dudes just for being assholes - and if "they're lying just to get money" is firing-worthy probably half the dudes in every police station, DA's office, and law firm in the country, unless they've never handled a rape case, need to go.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on November 28, 2011, 01:09:49 PM
I bet that Boeheim knows more about this than he's admitting.  This one may have some gory details just like the Penn State situation.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on November 28, 2011, 02:06:12 PM
Okay.  Who wants to crash Antoine Walker's party (http://www.iamagm.com/news/2011/11/21/antoine.walker.hosting.shit.crazy.party.chicago)?   :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on November 30, 2011, 04:07:47 PM
Time for the first lawsuit (http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7298112/penn-state-nittany-lions-scandal-first-jerry-sandusky-sex-abuse-lawsuit-comes-new-accuser) for Jerry Sandusky, Penn State and his charity.  

I hope Penn State knows they are royally, and I mean royally, fucked.  This deal is going to cost the university and the state of Pennsylvania millions of dollars.  


Edit:  Also, this is a fucking crazy allegation (http://deadspin.com/5863908/which-syracuse-basketball-players-had-sex-with-laurie-fine) against Laurie Fine, and not just because she's uglier than hell. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on November 30, 2011, 04:51:02 PM
I hope it sinks the Penn State program tbh.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on November 30, 2011, 04:55:30 PM
Read the other article about Laurie Fine.  I guess it wouldn't be surprising if she wasn't disgusting.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on December 07, 2011, 03:33:56 PM
High school team loses title after celebration penalty (http://espn.go.com/boston/story/_/id/7327275/celebration-penalty-td-costs-cathedral-high-school-team-title). 

If you watch the video this was a very lame little fist pump that cost the team a lot.  It seems to me that they are trying to suck the fun out of everything any more. 

Quote
"We try and play by the rules, and the rule is 'no celebrating,' " he said.

Doesn't this seem a little bullshit for something that is supposed to be about fun?


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on December 07, 2011, 03:37:39 PM
High school team loses title after celebration penalty (http://espn.go.com/boston/story/_/id/7327275/celebration-penalty-td-costs-cathedral-high-school-team-title). 

If you watch the video this was a very lame little fist pump that cost the team a lot.  It seems to me that they are trying to suck the fun out of everything any more. 

Quote
"We try and play by the rules, and the rule is 'no celebrating,' " he said.

Doesn't this seem a little bullshit for something that is supposed to be about fun?

Caught this earlier today. What the fuck is the point of playing if you are not allowed to feel anything if you win? I completely agree... this is a fucked rule that they are using in black and white terms.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Azuredream on December 07, 2011, 03:53:57 PM
The analyst in the video on that link does bring up the NFL, and how at one point the elaborate touchdown celebrations were getting rather ridiculous and that's a big contributor in why we have idiotic rules like this.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on December 07, 2011, 04:33:55 PM
It's still fuck all retarded.  Unless there's a celebration involving direct taunting of the opposing player or stands or the simulation of the use of a weapon or if it lasts longer than 5 seconds, almost anything should be allowed.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on December 07, 2011, 04:36:56 PM
Agreed. We need more

(http://gifsoup.com/view2/1304944/merton-hanks-o.gif)


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on December 07, 2011, 04:37:05 PM
The analyst in the video on that link does bring up the NFL, and how at one point the elaborate touchdown celebrations were getting rather ridiculous and that's a big contributor in why we have idiotic rules like this.

Yes, exactly. But this is why there should be a gradient of celebrations. This is just an example of all or nothing. You win or score a touchdown/goal/etc, you should be able to express your happiness about it within reason. This just seems way over the top.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on December 07, 2011, 04:47:35 PM
Agreed. We need more

(http://gifsoup.com/view2/1304944/merton-hanks-o.gif)

I don't know if you are being sarcastic, but I think that's awesome.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on December 07, 2011, 05:28:08 PM
Celebration penalties are probably the most subtle form of racism I've ever seen.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on December 07, 2011, 05:34:22 PM
I am not being sarcastic.  :heart: Merton Hanks.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Cyrrex on December 08, 2011, 12:14:38 AM
Short of significantly delaying the game, I think pretty much ANY celebration should be allowed.  Including taunting.  Not that I think taunting is cool, I just think that the players should be allowed to express themselves however they like.  You want to risk looking like a complete dick and receiving some form of retribution?  Fine by me.  The whole point of sports is the competition - trying to prove you are better than the other guy - and this is a natural extension of it.

I don't understand how we got to be so uptight about these things.  I could give two shits about the hurt feelings of football players.  Get your revenge by playing better, and maybe not letting them score.  Crybabies.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Rasix on December 08, 2011, 12:33:20 AM
 :roll:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Fordel on December 08, 2011, 01:34:39 AM
Allow fighting, see how many TD dances you get then  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Cyrrex on December 08, 2011, 01:43:05 AM
Okay, so I probably don't mean it about the taunting.  But I sure as shit believe that players and teams should be allowed to celebrate all they want, just so long as it doesn't delay the game significantly.  I realize that a line has to be drawn somewhere, but we are way, way beyond that line by now.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on December 08, 2011, 01:54:24 AM
Gah why won't this thread mark itself as read!


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on December 08, 2011, 06:27:00 AM
:roll:

Particularly gun or violence related taunting. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on December 08, 2011, 03:52:12 PM
Poor Greg Oden has to be the ugliest motherfucker on the planet.  And he's a great guy.   How come Stephon Marbury and Steve Francis couldn't look like cavemen? 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on December 08, 2011, 05:13:59 PM
Poor Greg Oden has to be the ugliest motherfucker on the planet.  And he's a great guy.   How come Stephon Marbury and Steve Francis couldn't look like cavemen? 

Oh, I don't know about that.

(http://www.espn.go.com/media/pg2/2005/0928/photo/g_muresan_195.jpg)


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on December 08, 2011, 10:01:20 PM
Poor Greg Oden has to be the ugliest motherfucker on the planet.  And he's a great guy.   How come Stephon Marbury and Steve Francis couldn't look like cavemen? 

Oh, I don't know about that.

(http://www.espn.go.com/media/pg2/2005/0928/photo/g_muresan_195.jpg)

They probably both have acromegaly.  Their facial features are somewhat similar.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: WayAbvPar on December 09, 2011, 12:16:57 PM
I thought the end of the NBA lockout would be the end of all the headlines that make me happy. Good ol Davey Stern decided that I needed a few more belly laughs at the league's expense. Holy fucking CLOWNSHOES.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on December 09, 2011, 12:22:49 PM
What? He can cancel trades if he wants to.

I'm sure he'll send them a holiday card.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Rasix on December 09, 2011, 12:22:57 PM
What conflict of interest?  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: murdoc on December 09, 2011, 12:28:07 PM
Allow fighting, see how many TD dances you get then  :why_so_serious:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=yMwiHXAjPSo


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Rasix on December 09, 2011, 12:31:08 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3z8clyLn1I


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Azuredream on December 09, 2011, 01:08:15 PM
I thought the end of the NBA lockout would be the end of all the headlines that make me happy. Good ol Davey Stern decided that I needed a few more belly laughs at the league's expense. Holy fucking CLOWNSHOES.

Isn't this why the NFL has the franchise tag?


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on December 09, 2011, 01:22:11 PM
I hate the NBA so I laugh with glee at the idiotic Chris Paul trade debacle. Clownshoes on display.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on December 15, 2011, 09:13:50 AM
Chris Paul to the Clippers could make things interesting out west.  If it weren't for the curse of the Clips I would think they could make a nice run this year.  They've slowly put together a team of very talented young guys and now put Chris Paul in the mix and you've got at least a nice team.  A lot of how good they are will depend upon whether Eric Bledsoe can offset the loss of Gordon.  Bledsoe is a hell of a scorer and shooter, but he's no Gordon.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Chimpy on December 16, 2011, 08:58:07 AM
So, Illinois may suck at football but the women's volleyball team is in the championship game! (which, in a mild bit of irony, is going to be against UCLA)


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on December 22, 2011, 07:36:28 AM
This shortened NBA preseason has shown me that there's really no need to have the scads of games that they typically have.  The stars play in the 2 or 3 that everyone seems to have had this year and that makes them somewhat relevant/interesting.  I hope this trend continues.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: stu on December 28, 2011, 12:49:16 AM
The DJ Steve Porter recap/remixes on SportsCenter have to stop.  :sad: I like that ESPN is willing to get a little crazy (Around the Horn), but those remixes.

I'm kinda looking forward to see what NBC does with their refurbished sports network (only kinda, because, Comcast). Then again, it could be, "Sports analysis for people who only wear plaid."


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on January 09, 2012, 02:24:48 PM
I was really glad to see Barry Larkin enter the HOF today.  He's a name from my past and I used to love him as a player for the Reds.  I think he should have been first ballot, but at least he got in.   :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on January 09, 2012, 02:27:09 PM
Raines, Trammel, and Bagwell should be in too*, stupid writers.

*arguably McGwire and Palmiero also but I don't want to get into the steroid nonsense again.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on January 09, 2012, 02:28:05 PM
I think Fred McGriff should be in.  Not so sure about Bagwell due to steroid association.  I agree with Raines and Trammel.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on January 09, 2012, 02:29:26 PM
There is no association other than 'that guy has big arms.' He never tested positive, was not in the Mitchell report, etc., etc., etc.

McGriff is borderline, I tend to vote no on those guys personally. (Also he and Bags played for roughly the same period of time - why isn't McGriff "associated" with steroids too?)


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on January 09, 2012, 03:02:04 PM
I believe that there's more out there on Bagwell concerning a former trainer, but I'd have to Google fu it.  So sure, let him in too.  McGriff is just 7 dingers away from 500, and he was a hell of a driving force for every team he was on. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on January 09, 2012, 03:31:52 PM
I would put the Crime Dawg in the HOF!


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on January 09, 2012, 03:46:00 PM
After further thought Edgar Martinez should go in there too. Yeah, he spent most of his time as a DH, but given the rules allow you to have a DH, there should be a spot for the Best DH Ever.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on January 09, 2012, 04:18:58 PM
DH is the dumbest thing in sports.  None of them should be eligible. :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Sjofn on January 09, 2012, 08:00:38 PM
If you're GOING to allow DH, then yeah, they should get recognized if they're completely ridiculously good at it.

I prefer no DH (pitchers batting = lololol), but a little part of me likes that there IS a DH. Especially when an AL team visits a NL team and the pitcher batting hilarity gets turned up to 11.  :grin:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: RhyssaFireheart on January 09, 2012, 09:44:07 PM
Well, if they got rid of the DH, maybe some of those absolutely porker looking pitchers would have to learn to do something besides stand on the mound looking sloppy.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Sjofn on January 10, 2012, 03:55:44 AM
I love fat pitchers, you bite your tongue!


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: WayAbvPar on January 10, 2012, 10:41:28 AM
DH is the dumbest thing in sports.  None of them should be eligible. :oh_i_see:

 It has been almost 40 years now...this is like complaining that the forward pass in football should be illegal. Get over it. If the position is legal, it should be represented in the HoF.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on January 10, 2012, 10:58:22 AM
DH is the dumbest thing in sports.  None of them should be eligible. :oh_i_see:

 It has been almost 40 years now...this is like complaining that the forward pass in football should be illegal. Get over it. If the position is legal, it should be represented in the HoF.

^ THIS. ^

Either get rid of it, or show the guys who did it for almost their entire careers some damn love. Edgar Martinez should be a first-ballot guy. That man played with two tin cans for knees through the last back of his career and still put up good numbers. AND he played over a decade for SEATTLE without complaints, asking to be traded or being a douchebag. This alone is worthy of note. You telling me Big Papi's numbers aren't worthy of HOF consideration because he didn't field badly at first base?

I don't like the DH, but this disrespect to the guys who played the position by the HOF is pretty fucking retarded. I don't see you shitheads putting shortstops in the HOF that were spectacular defensive players while hitting .186 over their careers. Stop being fucking hypocrites about hitters vs. fielders.

Of course, I have no problems with them freezing out juiced up assholes with necks larger than their heads. Sosa, Bonds, McGwire can all go choke on a bag of dicks as far as I'm concerned.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on January 10, 2012, 12:22:33 PM
Nope.  No DH in the HOF.  They're worse than punters.   :grin:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on January 10, 2012, 01:06:27 PM
A great punter can make a serious impact on a game.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on January 10, 2012, 01:08:59 PM
I don't see you shitheads putting shortstops in the HOF that were spectacular defensive players while hitting .186 over their careers.

Not that I don't agree with you about putting DHs in the HoF, but Joe Tinker and Phil Rizzuto say hi.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on January 10, 2012, 01:36:35 PM
Two out of how many?  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on January 19, 2012, 05:49:12 PM
Oboy. 

Utah school board says Cougar mascot too offensive to women. (http://lasvegas.cbslocal.com/2012/01/19/utah-school-board-says-cougar-mascot-too-offensive-to-women/)

I just really don't know what to say about this other than  :ye_gods:.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on January 23, 2012, 07:55:24 PM
No one posting about JoePa? You people have failed me for the last time... :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on January 23, 2012, 09:13:17 PM
I figure that should probably go in the college football thread. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Cyrrex on January 24, 2012, 03:55:45 AM
No one posting about JoePa? You people have failed me for the last time... :why_so_serious:

I can't bring myself to feel bad about it.  I don't want to bring up the reasons all over again.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on January 24, 2012, 12:20:18 PM
Joe Pa was a better man than most that coach.  I don't really feel bad for him because he led a great, long life.  He screwed up the molestation thing, but he did a lot of good in his life as well.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on January 24, 2012, 01:21:56 PM
It's about the whole picture, really.

Character is tested in the times when nobody is looking and nobody will know.

I will say this, though, his influence almost single-handedly brought instant replay into college football, which was a godsend.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on January 24, 2012, 01:31:25 PM
It's about the whole picture, really.

Character is tested in the times when nobody is looking and nobody will know.

I will say this, though, his influence almost single-handedly brought instant replay into college football, which was a godsend.

This may shock you, considering my bowl-centric views, but I don't like instant replay.   :grin:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on January 24, 2012, 02:39:48 PM
I know why. You love controversy.

I like resolution, sir. Clarity!  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on January 24, 2012, 02:49:51 PM
No.  Not at all.  I just have rarely seen a fucked up call that gets reversed where it would make a big difference in the game.  This is particularly so in college football.  I think they seem to do a better job of it in the pros, for some reason.  Maybe it's because they're pros.   :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on January 24, 2012, 05:21:02 PM
What replay has shown me in college football is that the refs fuck up all the time. Now, we can at least track them.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on January 24, 2012, 11:32:22 PM
No.  Not at all.  I just have rarely seen a fucked up call that gets reversed where it would make a big difference in the game.  This is particularly so in college football.  I think they seem to do a better job of it in the pros, for some reason.  Maybe it's because they're pros.   :awesome_for_real:

Ironically the NFL refs are part-timers.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on January 25, 2012, 08:12:28 AM
I was making the point that they do the replay process better in the NFL, not that they are necessarily better refs. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on January 25, 2012, 08:24:14 AM
They both have upsides. The NFL system falls down on the fact that you only get 3 challenges even if you're right on all of them. They've expanded it to all scoring plays now, so that sorta evens it out some from the previous system, with the remainder done in the booth inside 2 minutes. The problem with the booth is that sometimes the coach really wants to challenge, but the booth doesn't buzz down in time, and everyone rushes inside the drill.

The college system falls down on the fact you review everything. I mean every damn turnover gets reviewed. The games are already so long that they take 3:30 minimum just to finish with all the TV timeouts, and you're extending it longer with the reviews. Then, the by-product is that the refs are taught to let the play go on a possible fumble because blowing it dead would kill the review. However, the call on the field reigns in a close call. So, by nature the refs are taught to give more questionable fumbles or turnovers since the review is there and killing the play is bad. Which leads to more reviews. And more time.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on January 25, 2012, 08:46:21 AM
And that is why I think it would be better just to let the game flow.  I think that the refs also depend a bit on the replay at this point, making the "safe" call instead of trying to make the right call.  For instance, they will call someone in bounds, knowing that there will have to be incontrovertible evidence to overturn that call, thus taking all risk out of the play for themselves.  I don't like that.  If they are going to depend upon the replay that much they should just get rid of all on field referees and do everything via video review.  It will get quicker as they do it more and utilize the technology in a more efficient manner.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on January 25, 2012, 08:52:20 AM
I think there's a better middle ground than that.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on January 25, 2012, 09:23:08 AM
Maybe, but I have seen 2-5 minute disruptions of play for replay calls, when all they did was uphold the original call.  I'm not sure how you get away from that when the refs are using replay as a crutch.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: naum on January 25, 2012, 05:38:23 PM
Jerry Sandusky: I’ll Never Forget All The Things Joe Paterno Did For Me (http://www.theonion.com/articles/jerry-sandusky-ill-never-forget-all-the-things-joe,27169/)

Quote
STATE COLLEGE, PA—As thousands of mourners gathered at Penn State's campus spiritual center Wednesday afternoon to say their farewells to Joe Paterno, former assistant coach Jerry Sandusky took the opportunity to express his "deep, everlasting gratitude" for everything his late mentor had done for him.

"When I think of how much of my life I owe to Joe Paterno, I don't even know where to begin," said Sandusky, who confessed to feeling "overcome" while attending the former football coach's funeral. "I think it's safe to say I wouldn't have been able to lead the life I've led, wouldn't have grown into the man I've become, if it hadn't been for his leadership. I can't even begin to imagine what would have become of me if not for Joe Paterno."

"Truly, he gave me a place where I could reach my full potential—not just as a coach, but as a man," continued Sandusky, his voice cracking. "So many of my accomplishments would not have been possible without him and the unique atmosphere he created at Penn State."

Paterno and Sandusky enjoyed a relationship stretching back almost 50 years, with each helping the other to pursue his passion. Sandusky said that while it was true the two men harbored different dreams, aspirations, and desires, Paterno was careful never to stand in his way. In fact, he affirmed, Paterno's wholehearted attention to the overall success and reputation of Penn State football allowed Sandusky to focus on building his own legacy at Happy Valley, where he was always able to go after what he wanted most.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Cyrrex on January 26, 2012, 09:48:02 AM
The single act of inaction, of overlooking a heinous crime done right under his nose, wipes out all the positives of JoePa as far as I am concerned.  How many kids got raped that could have been prevented?

Bah, I don't want to go there again.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on January 26, 2012, 10:17:59 AM
The inaction means more to me because most of his "good deeds" revolve around giving money or support to the University. So what? You supported higher learning. Good for you. That's about 11th on my charitable giving things I can really give a shit about. Giving to rich institutions so they can create more rich people in Pennsylvania, whoopdedoo.

Meanwhile, dozens of kids had their lives irreparably shattered because he cared about a football reputation instead of protecting the innocent victim. And the "I'm old, I didn't understand" thing doesn't fly with me. My grandfather is 95 and understood exactly what this was when it came up. That defense has been tried by aging Mafia dons in the past and it didn't fly then either.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on January 26, 2012, 11:09:18 AM
Tough crowd here. I can't agree, but meh. Not worth the discussion.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on January 26, 2012, 11:26:20 AM
Yeah, I don't agree either.  Everyone makes mistakes.  I bet if Paterno could have done it over again he would have handled the situation differently.  I don't think he was being self serving in his treatment of Sandusky and I guarantee that he thought he was doing the right thing at the time.  That incident doesn't take away from his lifetime of achievements. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: WayAbvPar on January 26, 2012, 11:34:02 AM
It absolutely does. If his inaction let even one kid get fondled or raped or whatever, it absolutely does. Football is a game...Sandusky was ruining lives and Paterno could have done more to stop it.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on January 26, 2012, 11:42:48 AM
I don't think he was being self serving in his treatment of Sandusky and I guarantee that he thought he was doing the right thing at the time.

I guarantee that his version of the right thing was: "I absolutely cannot let something like this damage the institution I love. We have to get rid of this guy."

Not: "I absolutely cannot allow children to continue to be molested. I need to report this to the police."

It's the same moral failing the Catholics ran into. They believed that it would cause too much damage to the good that the institution was doing.

I don't think he was trying to be self-serving at all. I think his priorities were completely fucked up.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on January 26, 2012, 12:03:36 PM
I don't think he was being self serving in his treatment of Sandusky and I guarantee that he thought he was doing the right thing at the time.

I guarantee that his version of the right thing was: "I absolutely cannot let something like this damage the institution I love. We have to get rid of this guy."

Not: "I absolutely cannot allow children to continue to be molested. I need to report this to the police."

It's the same moral failing the Catholics ran into. They believed that it would cause too much damage to the good that the institution was doing.

I don't think he was trying to be self-serving at all. I think his priorities were completely fucked up.

That is a huge assumption/speculation. But I cannot get into this pit of despair or risk the life sucked right outta me.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on January 26, 2012, 12:31:15 PM
The actions speak pretty loud that a guy in line for a head coaching position was suddenly retiring at 55, after working under a coach that continued coaching well into his 80s. Hell, the average age of a head football coach is aged 51 in the NCAA.

They all knew in 1999, three years before the alleged McQueary conversations. When they were told again, they had to go through the motions to keep the story quite. And it worked well for another 8 years.

Is it an assumption? Sure. Is it huge? Hell no. The Hawaii head coach just retired and he's 66. Very few people retire from college coaching at 55. Hell you don't even get a shot at a good job anymore until you are in your late 30s usually.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on January 26, 2012, 09:58:40 PM
Well, we've already rehashed this same shit about 20 times and none of us has changed our opinion yet so fuck it.  Let's talk about something else, such as Phil Knight's sweatshop loving self sticking his nose in a place it doesn't belong (http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7506640/joe-paterno-penn-state-nittany-lions-memorial-exposes-anger-firing). 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on February 08, 2012, 10:10:35 PM
Duke just put a dagger in UNC. Wow. You don't see many better college basketball games outside the Madness!


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on February 09, 2012, 03:36:12 PM
Yall must really hate college basketball if you can't even get fired up about a couple of these games on during Rivalry week.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Sjofn on February 09, 2012, 03:38:43 PM
I hate basketball, so. Yeah.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on February 09, 2012, 04:04:01 PM
I hate basketball, so. Yeah.

You hate all the things I love  :heartbreak:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on February 09, 2012, 05:03:05 PM
Yall must really hate college basketball if you can't even get fired up about a couple of these games on during Rivalry week.

I refuse to believe that Duke versus UNC exists.  Kentucky pounded the shit out of Florida though.  They're damned good this year.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on February 09, 2012, 05:04:26 PM
I don't pay attention to college basketball until bracket time.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Sjofn on February 09, 2012, 05:05:28 PM
I hate basketball, so. Yeah.

You hate all the things I love  :heartbreak:

Part of the reason I hate it is because everyone in the world thinks I played it and was good at it. I played it for two seasons and was fucking terrible.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on February 09, 2012, 05:11:54 PM
College basketball is really my sport to follow.  Nobody else around here seems to give a shit though, so I don't bother to post about it.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Rasix on February 09, 2012, 05:14:37 PM
I hate basketball, so. Yeah.

You hate all the things I love  :heartbreak:

Part of the reason I hate it is because everyone in the world thinks I played it and was good at it. I played it for two seasons and was fucking terrible.

To be fair, all women are terrible at basketball.  :why_so_serious:

And while I don't care much anymore about the NCAA regular season, I love the tourney.  It's one of my favorite events in all of sports next to the World Cup and tennis slams.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Sjofn on February 09, 2012, 05:20:07 PM
Har har!

Seriously, though, I was so fucking terrible. Ugh.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on February 09, 2012, 05:22:55 PM
College basketball is really my sport to follow.  Nobody else around here seems to give a shit though, so I don't bother to post about it.

I give a shit. My top teams right now that I think are the best "teams" are Syracuse, Duke, Kansas, and UNC. I think Kentucky is just stupidly talented, but they will fall down in the tourney when they get pressed as a unit.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on February 09, 2012, 05:49:51 PM
Kentucky has beaten UNC and Kansas out of that group.  They are better than you give them credit for.  Duke is crazy good when they're hitting their threes, but they often get beat at tourney time due to lack of inside presence and, shall we say, less than their typical "fair" whistles.  Syracuse's D is the only thing I see stopping Kentucky.  Anthony Davis and Kidd-Gilchrist are two of the best freshmen to come through in a long time. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on February 09, 2012, 09:52:42 PM
Anthony Davis is the Uni-Blocker  :grin:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on February 09, 2012, 10:37:26 PM
I don't know if you happened to watch the UK/LSU game, but that guy got the absolute fuck beaten out of him.  He's a tough dude, and ugly as hell.  Michael Kidd-Gilchrist has it going on too.  He's got that MJ/Kobe thing happening, and he could end up being a superstar in the league. 

Your Bulldogs don't look like they're going to do much this year.  I miss the Alec Kessler/Hugh Durham Georgia. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on February 13, 2012, 02:34:25 PM
Hmmm.  Ex Memphis Tiger kicked of Spanish team (http://eye-on-basketball.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22748484/34822113) for taking "Extends" penis enlargement pills. 

Wow. 

 :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Trippy on February 13, 2012, 06:56:02 PM
It's because of people like him that we have to deal with spam :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on February 13, 2012, 07:22:03 PM
I suspect he was taking it for the steroid effect and thought he could get out of being busted by using that as an excuse. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on February 15, 2012, 10:49:17 AM
Not really a "sport" but the Westminister people chose a Pekingese as the Best in Show.

Fuck toy dogs. Srsly.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on February 15, 2012, 01:26:12 PM
Pekes are weird little dogs, for sure. But, the dogs aren't being judged against each other, but against their own breed's standards. So he's the best Peke a Peke can be, I guess.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on February 15, 2012, 03:34:55 PM
Yeah, so Floyd Mayweather is a complete prick (http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/02/14/mayweather-slams-linsanity-on-twitter-says-hype-due-to-race/). 

Quote
Mayweather posted on Twitter: “Jeremy Lin is a good player but all the hype is because he’s Asian. Black players do what he does every night and don’t get the same praise.”


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Trippy on February 15, 2012, 03:43:33 PM
It's true though :awesome_for_real: (at least for the Toronto game)


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on February 15, 2012, 04:01:03 PM
Floyd's right that this is about being Asian.

Except Lin can actually ball better than most black NBA players, so he can cram that idea.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: WayAbvPar on February 15, 2012, 04:35:53 PM
Yeah I never see any black players in NBA highlights.  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on February 15, 2012, 04:39:05 PM
Yeah I never see any black players in NBA highlights.  :oh_i_see:

Wait. Is Lebron black?  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Cyrrex on February 17, 2012, 12:28:33 AM
We all know full well that the fact that he is Asian has something to do with the attention he is getting.  But it is also because he is a Harvard grad, and virtually came out of NOWHERE.  There are few or no NBA stars that just come out of nowhere like that, it just doesn't happen that way like it can in other sports.  It's as if Haemish all of a sudden came in and scored 25 off the Laker's bench 5 nights in a row.  That's the bigger story to me, but I fear that the masses are unable to get past the Asian part.  Which should still be celebrated, in a way, but it shouldn't be the lone focus.  Most sportswriters out there seem to be getting it right.



Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Mosesandstick on February 17, 2012, 01:39:55 AM
In his first 7 starts (past 7 games), he's averaging 24.4 ppg, 9.1 apg and 1.6 spg. He was also undrafted. There aren't many players that have started that well.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Cyrrex on February 17, 2012, 01:45:55 AM
I may have mentioned it earlier, but I read something about his first four games were actually an NBA record for points scored.  As crazy as that sounds.

The traditional thinking is that, since basketball is a relatively uncomplicated game where success is primarily driven by skill and athleticism, it is unlikely that the guy is a fluke that will fall back down to earth.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on February 17, 2012, 08:09:14 AM
In his first 7 starts (past 7 games), he's averaging 24.4 ppg, 9.1 apg and 1.6 spg. He was also undrafted. There aren't many any players that have started that well.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Cyrrex on February 20, 2012, 12:24:11 AM
Yeah, that really is the thing.  His numbers are quite incredible, and that is before you consider the fact that he was undrafted.  This is not your average feel-good story, it is actually quite unprecedented.  More important, he has been the catalyst that has led them to winning 7 of the 8 games he has played. 

His turnover numbers are way too high, but they can probably work on that.  Besides, it hasn't seemed to matter a whole lot.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on February 20, 2012, 08:24:00 AM
Lin is providing something that Mark D'Antoni's teams need to work-  energy.  It will be interesting to see how marginalized Melo becomes with this setup.  We have seen that Stoudemire can work very well within D'Antoni's scheme.  I'm not sure that Melo can do it.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on February 24, 2012, 01:17:00 PM
Danica Patrick is a terrible driver and I wish she would go away.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on February 24, 2012, 01:17:50 PM
I agree.  She's not even hot. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on February 24, 2012, 02:08:40 PM
There are about 30 drivers that are terrible - who cares if they have a penis?


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on February 24, 2012, 02:58:40 PM
There are about 30 drivers that are terrible - who cares if they have a penis?

Because they don't get shoved down our throats and plastered on modelling contracts. When you are terrible, you're supposed to get no coverage.

Exception: Tebow!


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Zetleft on February 25, 2012, 11:16:04 AM
There are about 30 drivers that are terrible - who cares if they have a penis?

Because they don't get shoved down our throats and plastered on modelling contracts. When you are terrible, you're supposed to get no coverage.

Exception: Tebow!

Don't forget kournikova, I don't care that she never won I always appreciated her highlights.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on February 25, 2012, 12:19:04 PM
So apparantely Danica won the pole position in the Nationwide, prompting many statements about how she's the first woman to ever grab the pole.

I have many chuckles.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: taolurker on February 25, 2012, 01:08:15 PM
DANICA INTO DA WALL


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on February 25, 2012, 01:22:04 PM
Yep she's already crashed again in the Nationwide.

So that's two cars she's managed to ruin now in this weekend.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on February 26, 2012, 05:14:00 PM
Yeah, but she's hawt.   :oh_i_see:

(http://i2.cdn.turner.com/si/2009/writers/tom_bowles/07/30/NASCAR_fixes/danica-patrick-toronto.jpg)


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Cyrrex on February 27, 2012, 01:54:22 AM
I won't lie, I think she cleans up pretty good.  I'm generally not bothered by the media over-exposure of her, mostly because she doesn't seem like she goes out of her way to seek it.  I think she just wants to be a good race car driver, at the end of the day.

There are about 30 drivers that are terrible - who cares if they have a penis?

Because they don't get shoved down our throats and plastered on modelling contracts. When you are terrible, you're supposed to get no coverage.

Exception: Tebow!

Don't forget kournikova, I don't care that she never won I always appreciated her highlights.

I seem to recall hearing that Kournikova was actually a very successful doubles player, so I guess she won plenty?


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on February 27, 2012, 08:31:30 AM
No one is forcing Danica to do the modelling stuff or the GoDaddy stuff. She knows exactly what she is, and she's taking full advantage of it.

I have no problem with milking your celebrity, I have problems with people pretending that she's anything but a hood ornament of NASCAR. She's there because she's hot. If she was an ugly chick and raced the way she does, she would have been bounced out of the league eons ago.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on February 27, 2012, 09:10:14 AM
I have no problem with milking your celebrity, I have problems with people pretending that she's anything but a hood ornament of NASCAR. She's there because she's hot. If she was an ugly chick and raced the way she does, she would have been bounced out of the league eons ago.

Who is pretending otherwise?   :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Merusk on February 27, 2012, 11:02:34 AM
She's not even that hot.  No, really.  She's Glamour Shots hot.  Anyone with professional hair & makeup can look reasonably attractive.  She's an average woman with both in all the "hot" pics.  There should be a disclaimer on all such photoshopped & treated displays  "Person in Picture is Hotter than they appear."


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on February 27, 2012, 11:16:05 AM
She's hot for a NASCAR driver.   :oh_i_see:

I agree with you though.  She doesn't do anything for me.  In the non photoshopped photos that you see of her she looks a little mannish for my tastes. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on February 27, 2012, 11:39:40 AM
Woman in a predominantly male sport (like all American sports, really). I can't wait for the first female placekicker in football.

Only thing I can't stand is the media paint-up of her. She can drive, we'll see how well she fairs in the coming years when she gets used to the bump and grind of closed-wheel stockcar racing.

And who gives a shit if she is using her gender to make some money? People do that all the time. I have more of a problem with how people play up Junior - considering he is the "face" of NASCAR with a pedigree. Outside of that, he is an average driver.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on February 27, 2012, 11:54:21 AM
Again, I don't have a problem with people using their gender to make money in sports. We invented a whole genre of "stupid reporter" called sideline reporting, just so hot chicks could have something moderately serious to do on camera during a game.

I just don't like novelty in racing. Win or don't win. That goes for Junior as well. He's as much of a freaking novelty as Danica, and just as terrible on the track.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Rasix on February 27, 2012, 12:55:22 PM
Woman in a predominantly male sport (like all American sports, really). I can't wait for the first female placekicker in football.


Not sure if green.  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katie_Hnida)


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on February 27, 2012, 02:54:42 PM
Woman in a predominantly male sport (like all American sports, really). I can't wait for the first female placekicker in football.


Not sure if green.  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katie_Hnida)


I assumed that he was talking about the NFL since we're discussing getting paid.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on February 27, 2012, 03:19:35 PM
Woman in a predominantly male sport (like all American sports, really). I can't wait for the first female placekicker in football.


Not sure if green.  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katie_Hnida)


I assumed that he was talking about the NFL since we're discussing getting paid.

Yes, my mis-step there. I am talking on the professional level.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on February 27, 2012, 03:34:28 PM
Now if she would have kicked for LSU that would have been a completely different story.   :awesome_for_real:

 :rimshot:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on February 27, 2012, 05:56:25 PM
She was a novelty as well, though. I think she kicked 2 extra points and wrote a book about getting molested by the other players.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on February 27, 2012, 06:40:50 PM
Oh and Danica's crashed for the 3rd time this weekend. This time in the first lap along with JJ, and Bayne.

There goes ALL interest in the race. They singlehandedly took out the best racer, the novelty pick, and the defending champ in a matter of 5 minutes.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on February 27, 2012, 06:57:27 PM
From what I'm reading none of these crashes were actually her fault?


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Trippy on February 27, 2012, 07:34:04 PM
From what I'm reading none of these crashes were actually her fault?
No, apparently it was Elliott Sadler who nudged Jimmie Johnson into the wall and caused the pile up.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on February 27, 2012, 07:34:10 PM
From what I'm reading none of these crashes were actually her fault?

That doesn't actually seem to matter... all anyone seems to want to believe is that she wrecked again, must be that she is a bad driver. This is as far as I can go with it before I get pissed off.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Trippy on February 27, 2012, 07:36:10 PM
Paelos is never wrong about sports matters.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Merusk on February 27, 2012, 08:19:59 PM
No, women drivers, boys, women drivers!  If men are always wrong in all matters then women are always the problem drivers!  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on February 27, 2012, 08:21:20 PM
I'm curious what percentage of drivers on the circuit she has to outperform to 'belong'.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on February 27, 2012, 08:34:01 PM
Are we seriously having a discussion about NASCAR?   :oh_i_see:

Should we break out the banjos and moonshine?


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on February 27, 2012, 08:58:35 PM
Paelos is never wrong about sports matters.


She's not even the real news. It's been wreck after wreck with cautions coming out seven times, only to lead up to Montoya actually running into a drying truck and causing an explosion. So now everything's gone red flag, and the race is just a mess.

EDIT: I should mention that running into the truck caused a jet fuel leak and fire. So now it's about getting the jet fuel which caught ablaze off the track, in addition to checking that the track is functional. Which I think it may not be at this rate.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Trippy on February 27, 2012, 09:10:11 PM
It's likely damaged beyond anything they can repair while the race is running.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on February 27, 2012, 09:11:39 PM
Now there's huge crews of people dumping sand or something literally across a turn in the track. It's not looking good for a pre-midnight finish.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Trippy on February 27, 2012, 09:14:14 PM
It's probably something to suck up all the fuel on the ground.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Trippy on February 27, 2012, 09:21:19 PM
Page with video of crash and aftermath:

http://www.nascar.com/video/post-race/highlights/120227/cup-day-high-eight/index.html


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on February 27, 2012, 09:26:49 PM
In one of the funnier moments, now they are saying they have to scrub the track with dishwashing soap.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Fordel on February 28, 2012, 12:30:01 AM
Makes sense to me, that stuff is all about breaking through oils and junk. I also imagine they aren't just squirting a bottle of Dawn on the track and using some kind of concentrated solution.


Though if they are that would indeed be funny.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Abagadro on February 28, 2012, 12:40:39 AM
Pretty amazing display of both emergency response and quick reconstruction of the crash site.  One of the more entertaining races I've seen in a while. Pretty rare when you have the dirvers out on the backstretch huddled around an iPhone playing with Twitter in the middle of a race while they try to repair the results of a conflagration.  Now if only a fist fight had broken out in the infield it would have been the best 500 evar!


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Abagadro on February 28, 2012, 12:44:37 AM
Oh, and on Danica. It's not really her, it's her sponsors that really push her out there. Godaddy obviously paid Fox a ton of money to feature the car a certain number of times.  She is just using what she has to get paid and I can't fault anyone for doing that really.  She is a competent driver actually.  I mean, you are talking about drivers in the top .01 percent of the sport and she is in that mix not embarrassing herself.  None of her wrecks had anything to do with her driving. She was turned in the Nationwide and collected in the other wrecks.

Plus, anything unusual is going to get coverage. Look at the Lin stuff.  It's just the sports media mentality. They have to fill all that time with something


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Merusk on February 28, 2012, 04:29:07 AM
In one of the funnier moments, now they are saying they have to scrub the track with dishwashing soap.  :awesome_for_real:

They do that for anything oily and greasy.  It became common practice around Cincinnati about 12 years ago when a tanker hauling rendered fat overturned on one of the major east-west overpasses. (I-74 & I-75 interchange.)  They couldn't find any commercial products typically used for road spills that would get rid of it.  Then one of the execs with P&G suggested using Dawn since it's specifically formulated to cut grease.   
Not Kidding. (http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1696&dat=19980502&id=efoaAAAAIBAJ&sjid=00cEAAAAIBAJ&pg=4289,133876)
 Cleanup Pt. 2. (http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1350&dat=19980506&id=BlxPAAAAIBAJ&sjid=kwMEAAAAIBAJ&pg=5064,2074135)

They also use plain old Dawn to clean animals affected by oil spills.  Same reason.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on February 28, 2012, 08:56:09 AM
That was the most entertaining Daytona since I started watching NASCAR in 2000, but it was not for the racing per se. Seriously, the juggernaut, Jimmy Johnson gets punted (and Danica) in the first minutes of the race, couple big wrecks, god damn fireball wreck into a blower truck (rule change incoming), the "face" of NASCAR was actually in it (but had little chance the way that 18 car was able to run just about anyway it wanted), and a repeat champion (though Kenseth is more a wallflower on the circuit, he still has a nice resume). And all during primetime on Monday night... only thing that killed it was the duration. NASCAR tides me over till college football starts, so this was a nice spearhead into the season.

And in other news, anyone watch the interviews with RGIII from the combine? Christ he is impressive. Luck or RG3? I just can't imagine the Colts aren't at least curious about Griffin.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on February 28, 2012, 09:08:14 AM
Don't be fooled by the underpants Olympics. Luck is still the guy for Indy. They don't need to take any risks, and RG3 is still considered a risk.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on February 28, 2012, 11:46:42 AM
Yeah, Luck is regarded by some experts as the best QB prospect in the past 30 years.  He's the Colts' man. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Cyrrex on February 29, 2012, 12:36:13 AM
I don't know.  There is some kind of weird football karma here that needs balancing.  There is entirely too much cock polishing going on with Andrew Luck.  Everyone is just a little too pleased with him, and it is just too convenient to think he will come in and replace Peyton and Indy will roll on.

So I am just going to flat out say it.  I think he is going to flop.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on February 29, 2012, 06:19:16 AM
I dunno if he will flop, but that team needs a lot more than just a QB. Say what you will about with-Peyton and without-Peyton, there is only so much you can do given your receiving corp and O-line. Then there is the defensive side of the ball. Indy has been declining since their last superbowl, just not particularly steep.

I say this partly projecting from my own woeful team's perspective. I keep thinking, if the Browns make the trade for RG3, what exactly is that going to do for them as a team? The O-line is suspect and the Browns haven't had a receiving corp since the 80s. So if RG3 remains upright for 5 seconds, who is he going to throw to that won't drop it? Surprisingly, the Browns defense turned a corner, but the offense just has no tools at all which makes grabbing a "franchise" QB sorta pointless. Then again, Cleveland is where athletes go to get experience playing other professional teams before getting out and actually being a success.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on February 29, 2012, 07:07:41 AM
He may flop, he may not.  Who can tell?  He'll still go number one.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Merusk on February 29, 2012, 07:10:34 AM
Doesn't Cleveland do that for Coaches as well, or is Bellichick the exception?


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Cyrrex on February 29, 2012, 07:32:29 AM
He may flop, he may not.  Who can tell?  He'll still go number one.

No question about that.  I just think all the "sure-fire!" talk in the media is beyond ridiculous.  I am merely predicting that the universe will attempt to balance itself out somehow. 

The road to the NFL is riddled with top prospects who never did shit.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on February 29, 2012, 08:29:52 AM
Tim Couch is a nice example.  A hell of an athlete and a hell of an arm.  He just didn't have what it took to play. 

Interestingly, I know a couple of his relatives and they say that the biggest reason that he didn't stick in the NFL is that he is dumber than a box of rocks.  He couldn't memorize even the most basic playbook for Cleveland.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on February 29, 2012, 08:47:26 AM
Doesn't Cleveland do that for Coaches as well, or is Bellichick the exception?

More like they go there to die unless they make a pact with Satan. Curse of Paul Brown that only a blood ritual could break. Since the New Browns:

Quote
Chris Palmer 1999–2000
Butch Davis 2001–2004
Terry Robiskie 2004 (Interim)
Romeo Crennel 2005–2008
Eric Mangini 2009–2010
Pat Shurmur 2011–Present

Yeah... not a lot of hope there. Crennel might have a shot in KC, but yeah... Factory of Sadness status. Even before that, Shottenheimer was one of the only "successes," but even then, he couldn't get over the hump.

Which actually brings me to this curse thing. The Cubs in Chicago obviously comes to mind and the Lions in Detroit, but does any other city compare to Cleveland in sports woe (in terms of actually winning a championship)? Indians were good in the late 90s (and I was at the Jake for many a sold out game back then), but still never got the Series. Cavs... /cry. Browns... /weep.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on February 29, 2012, 10:42:26 AM
Well, the hit piece on Ben Howland (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/magazine/02/28/ucla/index.html?eref=sihp&sct=hp_t11_a1) is finally here.  SI.com did a story on him and the UCLA program trying to essentially demonize Howland.  He does sound a bit like a piece of shit, but the real story is on Reeves Nelson.  That guy is fucking nuts, and likely has antisocial personality disorder.  If I was an NBA team I would stay far the fuck away from Reeves Nelson.  

And if I were Howland I would be readying my attorney.  This is a true hit piece and will likely cost him his job.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on February 29, 2012, 02:11:48 PM
Losing games in a conference that's largely irrelevant in college basketball over the last 5 years doesn't do you many favors.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Merusk on March 01, 2012, 06:50:54 AM
Doesn't Cleveland do that for Coaches as well, or is Bellichick the exception?

More like they go there to die unless they make a pact with Satan. Curse of Paul Brown that only a blood ritual could break. Since the New Browns:

Quote
Chris Palmer 1999–2000
Butch Davis 2001–2004
Terry Robiskie 2004 (Interim)
Romeo Crennel 2005–2008
Eric Mangini 2009–2010
Pat Shurmur 2011–Present

Yeah... not a lot of hope there. Crennel might have a shot in KC, but yeah... Factory of Sadness status. Even before that, Shottenheimer was one of the only "successes," but even then, he couldn't get over the hump.

Which actually brings me to this curse thing. The Cubs in Chicago obviously comes to mind and the Lions in Detroit, but does any other city compare to Cleveland in sports woe (in terms of actually winning a championship)? Indians were good in the late 90s (and I was at the Jake for many a sold out game back then), but still never got the Series. Cavs... /cry. Browns... /weep.

I haven't been able to follow the Browns at all since moving to Cincy, I just knew they were in a perpetual losing streak.  I didn't realize it was really Cincinnati levels of bad.  So sad.

Shottenheimer was the Brown's coach I grew up with, Belichick being coach only my Sr. year of High School.

Still, I'd think it was the curse of Art Modell, not Paul Brown.  Paul's "Legacy" infects southern Ohio.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on March 01, 2012, 08:11:05 AM
Losing games in a conference that's largely irrelevant in college basketball over the last 5 years doesn't do you many favors.

No, but going to three straight final fours probably would have bought him another 4 or 5 years without this sort of thing. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on March 01, 2012, 08:27:03 AM
Losing games in a conference that's largely irrelevant in college basketball over the last 5 years doesn't do you many favors.

No, but going to three straight final fours probably would have bought him another 4 or 5 years without this sort of thing. 

I'm trying to think of their signature wins in those runs. They beat Kansas, Memphis, and Gonzaga. The rest were pretty easy wins up until they got demolished by Florida. The conference just hasn't been good in a while and gets no real respect.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Rasix on March 01, 2012, 08:30:37 AM
The fact that you're trying to diminish those final four runs is hilarious.  You are off your meds. FFS, stop.  Just be wrong about something for once and move on.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on March 01, 2012, 08:55:44 AM
The fact that you're trying to diminish those final four runs is hilarious.  You are off your meds. FFS, stop.  Just be wrong about something for once and move on.

I'm not trying to diminish them, I was simply looking up what they did. You are reading too much into what I'm suggesting. I had no idea until I did some background on it. They had some great teams who got beat in the final four by a strong Florida team that was a complete anomoly in the SEC.

UCLA had a great team, I won't suggest otherwise at all. What we're discussing is the idea of why they have fallen down of late, expectations on that team in order to win, and whether the surrounding element of their conference is a factor for the ire. What I'm getting at is that when you are a great team in a bad conference, you're forgiven. But the moment you go average, you suck and are terrible, and you get hit pieces against you where you should be canned.

Meanwhile the PAC-10-12 has fallen on harder times in basketball. 4 bids last year, 2 bids in 2010, 6 in 2009 but only 1 left in the 16. That was sort of the turning point that leads us to now. 2009 was the last year where the PAC-10-12 had serious cred, and they had the UCLA runs to thank for that. Now, I'm looking at Bracketology and they are projected to get 3 bids along with the WCC and the Mountain West. Washington as a 10, Ca as a 9, and Arizona as an 11.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on March 01, 2012, 10:05:38 AM
A big reason for their demise is that UCLA has had a shitty few years.  Oregon is usually pretty strong too, and they've been down. 

Getting to the final four three years in a row is something that only K and Izzo have done in the modern tournament.  That is golden, regardless of their path.

My entire point about this is that he shouldn't have to be a babysitter for these kids.  They are adults and should be able to know when to party and when not to party.  Did he screw up with Reeves Nelson?  Sure he did.  It sounds like it would be tough not to though.  The kid is an animal.  Howland should be given a second chance. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on March 01, 2012, 10:10:32 AM
My entire point about this is that he shouldn't have to be a babysitter for these kids.  They are adults and should be able to know when to party and when not to party.  Did he screw up with Reeves Nelson?  Sure he did.  It sounds like it would be tough not to though.  The kid is an animal.  Howland should be given a second chance. 

Have you BEEN to college? Yes, they are "adults" but let's face it... college kids don't often act like it. That's why you get the "LOLCOLLEGE" response from people when you mention things like partying by college athletes. Someone will have that faraway look in their eyes that signifies they are remembering the time they drank 17 shots of Jager and ended the night face down in a mud puddle with a diaper on after having run a train on some passed out sorority chick. And what the fuck was that badger doing there?

Athletes who have been courted by multiple big name schools, whose faces are plastered on television and who get interviewed by ESPN dudes in their locker have to be really mature individuals to not get their heads turned by the notoriety. That's not to excuse it, nor is it to say the coach should be their babysitter. But he damn well better know what's going on and try to make sure his players aren't getting busted by the cops, or doing crazy whacked out shit like trying to injure their teammates in practice running a illegal pick because "dude looked at me funny."


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on March 01, 2012, 10:15:46 AM
These guys are 18 and can vote.  They should act like adults.  If people that age can't act like grownups we should take away that right to vote and basically all other adult privileges until they reach 21 (something I'm not entirely opposed to).

I agree with you that he should have had a better grip on the situation, but we weren't there.  All we have is this hit piece of "journalism" to go on, and I daresay that it's pretty biased.  Another thing is that sociopaths like Reeves Nelson are pretty good at hiding things and also good at bullying.  It sounds to me like he was also bullying the coach. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on March 01, 2012, 10:24:48 AM
These guys are 18 and can vote.  They should act like adults.

Do you remember 18? If you did, and you remember the people you hung around with, you'd slap yourself for making that statement.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on March 01, 2012, 10:30:49 AM
These guys are 18 and can vote.  They should act like adults.  If people that age can't act like grownups we should take away that right to vote and basically all other adult privileges until they reach 21 (something I'm not entirely opposed to).

Sure they SHOULD act like adults. They don't. Fuck it, I didn't and I was both intelligent and fairly mature. I got drunk off my ass and drove that way more times than I care to remember, despite knowing how fucktastically stupid that is. I did the same thing at 21. An arbitrary number of birthdays that comes attached to a privilege to choose your society's government does not in any way signify an ability to act responsibly. I know people twice that age who don't act as responsibly as my teenage nephew.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: WayAbvPar on March 01, 2012, 10:35:42 AM
These guys are 18 and can vote.  They should act like adults.  If people that age can't act like grownups we should take away that right to vote and basically all other adult privileges until they reach 21 (something I'm not entirely opposed to).


Congratulations. You finally made a post SO fucking stupid I can't unroll my eyes. Anyone know a good surgeon?


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on March 01, 2012, 10:51:43 AM
These guys are 18 and can vote.  They should act like adults.  If people that age can't act like grownups we should take away that right to vote and basically all other adult privileges until they reach 21 (something I'm not entirely opposed to).


Congratulations. You finally made a post SO fucking stupid I can't unroll my eyes. Anyone know a good surgeon?

Really dude?  Does it matter when your head is up your ass?   :grin:

Or do you need the surgeon to remove that for you?


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: WayAbvPar on March 01, 2012, 10:57:22 AM
Yes, it is me whose head is up his ass. That must be what it is.   :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on March 01, 2012, 11:04:45 AM
I'm going to attempt to not turn this into fisticuffs, even though you're clearly looking for some PvP action here.  It is perfectly appropriate and reasonable to expect people who are considered adults to behave as such.  I don't care if they are 18 or 98.  That expectation involves not breaking the law, being good to those folks that are around us and generally not being a jackass.  If you believe otherwise it certainly is you that has your head up your ass.   :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on March 01, 2012, 11:21:53 AM
At 18, they are ACCOUNTABLE for doing stupid things - but very few people really expect an 18 year old to act responsibly. Quite frankly, I don't think they should, because at 18, you learn when not to be a jackass by not having the fallback of your parents and your status as a minor. College athletes, especially at a big school like UCLA, are treated like kings, and thus, without someone on the coaching staff or the team holding them accountable for being a dumbass, they will be a dumbass because while they don't have mama's skirts as a fallback, they also don't have mama's restrictions on their behavior either. You can expect an 18-year old to be responsible - you can also expect fairies to come from another dimensional realm and grant you all the wishes you want, but unless your name is Timmy, neither one of those things is happening without some external force enabling it.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on March 01, 2012, 11:35:11 AM
Well, the law holds these folks accountable and expects them to act responsibly.  There is no legal difference between someone who is 18 or 100, as far as I know (feel free to correct me if wrong, Ab).  And yes, I was 18 once, just like all of these guys and I had fun but you know what?  I had my shit together enough to actually be able to make something out of myself.  The players on this team should be able to do that on their own, without an excess of hand holding.  Bed checks and curfews are for 14 year olds.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Merusk on March 01, 2012, 11:43:37 AM
At 18, they are ACCOUNTABLE for doing stupid things - but very few people really expect an 18 year old to act responsibly. Quite frankly, I don't think they should, because at 18, you learn when not to be a jackass by not having the fallback of your parents and your status as a minor. College athletes, especially at a big school like UCLA, are treated like kings, and thus, without someone on the coaching staff or the team holding them accountable for being a dumbass, they will be a dumbass because while they don't have mama's skirts as a fallback, they also don't have mama's restrictions on their behavior either. You can expect an 18-year old to be responsible - you can also expect fairies to come from another dimensional realm and grant you all the wishes you want, but unless your name is Timmy, neither one of those things is happening without some external force enabling it.

Know why we don't expect it?  Because that's how the culture expects them to behave.  Do you think humans were lolfuckstupid until 18 our entire evolution, too?  No, that's a recent occurrence.

I expect 18 year olds will make stupid decisions because of lack of life experience.  I do not expect them to be the kind of idiots regularly athletes are because they were treated like children and catered to for so long and have their shit covered-up because big money is involved and they have talent at a kid's game other man-children like throwing money at.   Neither does the rest of the nation since, y'know, we let them carry guns and kill at 18, too.

Shit, you get it with kids in their 20's now on a regular basis, too.  "Oh, he's only 25 he does't know any better."  Fuck you for lowered expectations.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on March 01, 2012, 11:44:16 AM
Perhaps you did. But not everyone is like you. If everyone had the same level of maturity, no, these athletes would not need hand holding. Some folks just can't handle their shit. Period.

EDIT TO ADD: It gets worse with certain sectors (like athletics or entertainment) because these people are making someone else money. College athletes are not only making the university money, but ESPN money and various TV networks. These kids are CASH COWS and they get whatever the fuck they want and can get away with. If you don't have someone like a coach keeping that kid grounded, do you really expect most will be able to handle their shit? Maybe 1 out of 100 would when given the star treatment.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on March 01, 2012, 12:01:42 PM
Why wouldn't we, as a society, expect them to handle their shit?  As Merusk said, there are plenty of examples of how society does expect them to be able to function as adults.  There are lots of players/actors/musicians that do handle their shit at that age.  We generally just hear about the fucking idiots who don't, like the players in question here.  There are a ton of guys that do very, very well with that sort of pressure.  Kobe Bryant is one.  Kevin Garnett is another.  They may have very well been running around partying and what have you, but they had the sense to do it when it was time to do it and they took care of business when it was time to take care of business. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on March 01, 2012, 12:04:16 PM
The reason we've moved away from that accountability at 18 is because we've effectively started adding on college education for 4 years as a mandatory part of the development process. It wasn't uncommon 50 years ago for the majority of adults to just get a job and move on with your life at that age.

That being said, when you exploit kids for your money, you get what you deserve when they lash out.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on March 01, 2012, 01:04:10 PM
People have always been fuckstupid at 18, they were just fuckstupid people who had more responsibility if you go back.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on March 01, 2012, 01:15:26 PM
Well, the point remains then-  if they're going to act like adolescents why don't we give them the rights and responsibilities of adolescents? 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on March 01, 2012, 01:51:13 PM
Well, the point remains then-  if they're going to act like adolescents why don't we give them the rights and responsibilities of adolescents? 

Because they have to grow up sometime?


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on March 01, 2012, 01:53:08 PM
It isn't unusual for people to still be growing physically through their early twenties. I don't really understand why we can accept that but at 18 they must suddenly be utterly adult in every other way. The brain is still changing too.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on March 01, 2012, 01:58:35 PM
It isn't unusual for people to still be growing physically through their early twenties. I don't really understand why we can accept that but at 18 they must suddenly be utterly adult in every other way. The brain is still changing too.

The draft.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on March 01, 2012, 02:28:38 PM
It isn't unusual for people to still be growing physically through their early twenties. I don't really understand why we can accept that but at 18 they must suddenly be utterly adult in every other way. The brain is still changing too.

Actually, people are still growing both physically and mentally quite a bit through their late teens and early 20s.  If you look at people that you know that go off to college at age 18 and then you don't see them again for 4 years, they often behave and act quite a bit differently.  It's tougher to see when you see them every day or week.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on March 01, 2012, 02:30:32 PM
So to get this out of the politics nosedive, what the hell is up with the news agencies fucking with Tiger Woods over wanting to be a Navy SEAL?  I mean hell, the guy did basically everything that you can possibly do wrong short of killing someone, and this is actually a somewhat wholesome goal.  I don't get it. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on March 01, 2012, 02:36:40 PM
Well, the point remains then-  if they're going to act like adolescents why don't we give them the rights and responsibilities of adolescents? 

In all honesty, it was because of the Vietnam War. The 26th amendment was put into place to make the voting age 18 because they were being drafted. That's it. They wanted to give kids who would go shoot somebody the right do vote on it.

It has nothing to do with kids being fuckups on the college campus. They were then, and they are now. We just have more media coverage of it.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Abagadro on March 01, 2012, 11:25:25 PM
So to get this out of the politics nosedive, what the hell is up with the news agencies fucking with Tiger Woods over wanting to be a Navy SEAL?  I mean hell, the guy did basically everything that you can possibly do wrong short of killing someone, and this is actually a somewhat wholesome goal.  I don't get it. 

Because it's so delusional and Tiger has such an ego that it is amusing to puncture.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on March 02, 2012, 06:46:11 AM
I suppose it does make him squirm quite a bit when it's brought up.   :grin:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Cyrrex on March 02, 2012, 06:56:46 AM
Apparently made him squirm a whole lot when a reporter brought it up the other day.

It is really, really weird how this guy has tanked so bad ever since his incident.  I mean, we could all kinda predict he'd go through a rough patch, but he has become nearly irrelevant on the course itself.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on March 02, 2012, 07:39:49 AM
There's a lot of discussion that it's the Nike putter, rather than the incident itself, that has killed his success.  Greg Norman was talking the other day about how his putting stroke seems different every time he goes out.  Tiger really needs to man up and get himself a short game coach.  He's too old for dicking around  :grin:

In his favor is the fact that most true superstars (Nicklaus, Watson, etc.) seem to have a short burst of greatness toward the end of their career that will sometimes net them a major or two.  Tiger is that sort of player, and if he gets his putting together he could really pick back up where he was before.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on March 02, 2012, 12:29:48 PM
Also, injuries and being off the juice.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on March 02, 2012, 01:36:35 PM
Also, injuries and being off the juice.

Key point. In 2009, the year of his famous crash on Thanksgiving, for the 5 years leading up to that Tiger had averaged 303.5 yards per drive.

In 2010-2012? He's averaging 295. Why does that matter? Because in addition to coming up shorter on average, he's also gone from #1 on tour in greens in regulation for 07-08, to 167th and 37th in 10-11. He's not able to get home as easily anymore. It's not sudden age that caught up with him in 2 years.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on April 10, 2012, 03:36:47 PM
Seriously, a guy named Bubba just won the Masters.  Really?   :drill:


Addendum:  God sports are boring this time of year.   :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on April 18, 2012, 01:30:52 PM
Wow.  Pat Summit is retiring after 38 seasons (http://espn.go.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7828864/pat-summitt-steps-aside-coach-lady-vols).  She is, somewhat amazingly, only 59 years old. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on April 18, 2012, 02:26:18 PM
Wow.  Pat Summit is retiring after 38 seasons (http://espn.go.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7828864/pat-summitt-steps-aside-coach-lady-vols).  She is, somewhat amazingly, only 59 years old. 

Understandable considering her mental diagnosis. However, yeah... 38 seasons and not even 60 years old is quite admirable.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on April 18, 2012, 02:34:16 PM
Wow.  Pat Summit is retiring after 38 seasons (http://espn.go.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7828864/pat-summitt-steps-aside-coach-lady-vols).  She is, somewhat amazingly, only 59 years old. 

Understandable considering her mental diagnosis. However, yeah... 38 seasons and not even 60 years old is quite admirable.

Very much a legend of the game. It's a sad illness.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on April 18, 2012, 02:41:20 PM
She really is a sporting legend.  It will be sad to see her go.  I was befuddled by her age because she has been around so freaking long.  I expected her to be at least 69.  Interestingly, she looks about 10 years older than she actually is at 59.  I guess basketball coaching is pretty stressful.  And putting up with Bruce Pearl could age anyone.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on April 20, 2012, 07:58:13 AM
Anyone want to take any bets as to how long Larry Brown lasts as SMU's coach (http://espn.go.com/dallas/ncb/story/_/id/7833478/smu-mustangs-announce-larry-brown-take-coach)?  I'm wagering he will make it through the first season (a season in which they will struggle to make .500) an then quit.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on April 20, 2012, 03:29:33 PM
I hope he doesn't die on the job.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on April 24, 2012, 11:28:40 AM
Ah, yes.  Neon Deion was apparently attacked by his estranged wife and some other person (http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/24/sport/deion-sanders-wife/index.html?hpt=hp_t2). 


Quote
"Pray for me and my kids now! They just witnessed their mother and a friend jump me in my room," the first tweet, posted at 6:15 p.m., read. "She's going to jail n I'm pressing charges!"

Rich, famous people should not be allowed to get married nor should they be allowed to procreate.  They are, every last one of them, fucking lunatics. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on May 07, 2012, 12:25:10 PM
So Clint Dempsey has 23 goals for his Fulham squad this year and 50 total in the English Premier League.  Is he the best American to ever play the sport?  


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on May 07, 2012, 01:24:32 PM
No, he's the luckiest American to ever play the sport.  :awesome_for_real:

I will say that my appreciation for him has grown recently. I still think he's more lucky than good, by that I mean his best quality seems to be his innate ability to be at the right place at the right time as opposed to any stunning physical ability. Most of the goals I've seen him score are poacher's goals. Still, you can't argue with his scoring stats for Fulham.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: shiznitz on May 07, 2012, 02:56:08 PM
That same "luck" made Gretsky the greatest hockey player ever.  It might not be "ability" but whatever it is, it is a rare gift and any athlete so endowed should not have its importance belittled.  My using that word is not an accusation that you are so doing.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on May 07, 2012, 03:09:49 PM
Oh no, I realize that especially in soccer, positioning is a talent almost as important as passing, tackling or shooting. Getting in the best place to receive a pass that lets you turn and make a better pass or a killer shot is extremely important. That just happens to be what Dempsey is good at.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on May 09, 2012, 01:07:25 PM
Going to stick this in the death of football thread, but this part caught my attention and swept it into this thread:

Quote
One of Bissinger's points particularly stood out, and it both energized the audience and rendered his opponents all but powerless to rebut it. He argued, essentially, that we put an end to the increasingly tortured efforts to reconcile the larger missions of universities with what it takes for those universities to field successful football teams, by officially recognizing that the two are not reconcilable. He proposed that major college football programs that are already, in practice, run parallel to their universities -- out of their own increasingly grand departments and facilities -- formally split off into their own entities while retaining a tie to, and even the name of, the school from which they originated. "Create a de facto subsidiary," Bissinger proposed. "The university gets a licensing fee."
The players would be paid for participating in what Bissinger said is already "the greatest minor league in the history of the world" -- and would therefore, at least, not be simultaneously "maimed and exploited," as is Gladwell's concern. They would continue to benefit from the life lessons that can be learned from playing the game. Communities could still rally around them, exulting in their wins and mourning their losses. Schools could still financially profit from them, and direct those profits toward other teams and academic departments. And the players would still have the opportunity to parlay their athletic skills into better off-the-field lives, if they were so inclined. Green wondered if players could still attend classes and earn degrees in this scenario.
"Players get the option to go to class, if they want to," Bissinger replied. "I bet most wouldn't."

From here: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/ben_reiter/05/09/ban-college-football-debate/index.html

I kinda like the idea.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on May 09, 2012, 01:11:36 PM
College athletics is one of the biggest shams in history, as it stands today.  I'm not sure what most athletic programs do for their universities and colleges and to have such emphasis on sport really detracts from their mission. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on May 09, 2012, 02:39:24 PM
It's been a long running goal of mine to bury the bowl system by picking over their 990 filings and public document requests proving they are unworthy of non-profit status.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on May 19, 2012, 10:03:06 PM
Normally, I don't like horse racing considering the fact I hate horses... but holy shit the Preakness was pretty god damn intense. I doubt the horse will take the triple crown, but with the way he ran down Bode today... hard not to favor him.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: WayAbvPar on May 21, 2012, 10:54:00 AM
Yeah, what a great race. Jock almost waited too long before he let him go. Wow, that horse can close.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Bunk on May 23, 2012, 09:26:41 AM
The Preakness would be only the second time I've made a point of watching a horse race. It's getting huge play here, as the jockey Gutierrez is based out of Hastings Park (downtown Vancouver).


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on May 23, 2012, 09:54:15 AM
This will be a good year to watch the Belmont, that's for sure.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on June 08, 2012, 12:17:46 PM
Well, no triple crown this year.  I'll have another is out of the Belmont with a swollen tendon (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/more/06/08/Ill-Have-Another-scratches-from-Belmont.ap/index.html?eref=sihp&sct=hp_t11_a0).    :heartbreak:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on June 08, 2012, 12:20:02 PM
Caught that on the breaking news... sucks ass, but way better than having another Barbaro episode. That horse could close like no one's business.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on June 08, 2012, 01:51:07 PM
Nobody wants to watch another horse essentially die on the track.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: naum on June 09, 2012, 12:09:12 PM
Your Ultimate Frisbee fix for the day:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=pOJ9GzWOTOY


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on June 10, 2012, 08:09:28 AM
Nobody wants to watch another horse essentially die on the track.

I grew up going to Churchill Downs and Keeneland and I can say that there is little more jarring than watching them have to shoot a horse on the track when it's broken a leg.  I don't particularly care for horse racing because of this possibility.  It's a dirty sport that's probably as full of doping as cycling and, on top of that, the horses aren't particularly treated all that great. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on June 19, 2012, 11:05:59 AM
Jerry Sandusky is fucked (http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_t2#/video/us/2012/06/19/point-nbc-sandusky-costas-intv-helping-young-people.cnn). 

The guy is indefensible.  I don't know how his attorneys can sleep at night.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on June 19, 2012, 11:13:23 AM
If his lawyer was smart, he'd have plea-bargained this case. He didn't, and now we get to watch this asshole twist in the wind.

I believe in forgiveness, but I hope Sandusky is tortured by what he's done while he goes to prison for the rest of his life. I hope it will also help the victims move on to have semi-normal lives knowing that there was at least some small form of justice done.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on June 19, 2012, 11:21:35 AM
This type of justice won't fix them.  And he won't be rehabilitated nor will he be a good example/deterrant for potential child molesters.  Better to put a bullet in his head. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on June 19, 2012, 01:17:29 PM
And here we have the mother of all bad ideas in sports marketing (http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/18/us/adidas-shackle-shoes/index.html?hpt=hp_c2).  

(http://cbsdetroit.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/shoes.jpg?w=300)


Addendum-   :ye_gods:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on June 19, 2012, 01:45:07 PM
What...

The...

Fuck?


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on June 19, 2012, 01:47:58 PM
I agree.. those are a horrible style and color choice. :why_so_serious:

OH OH THE CHAINS and SHACKLES!  :uhrr: 

Yeah, saw that earlier today and really wondered if people are so far removed from reality that it did not occur to them that those might be a tad bit wrong.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on June 19, 2012, 02:05:28 PM
/danieltosh "High Fashion"


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on June 20, 2012, 10:34:25 AM
Sepp Blatter now says that "goal line tech is a necessity" (http://espnfc.com/us/en/news/1109501/sepp-blatter-wants-goalline-tech.html).  Is there anyone more comically incompetent than this asshat?  While just before the 2010 World Cup he was against it.  He is the consummate politician. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on June 20, 2012, 10:39:14 AM
Why would soccer be afraid of goal line tech? I mean shit, it can't possibly slow down the game, nobody scores that much.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Nebu on June 20, 2012, 10:43:54 AM
Why would soccer be afraid of goal line tech? I mean shit, it can't possibly slow down the game, nobody scores that much.

I'll become a diehard soccer fan when they start doing something about all of the dives and play acting.  That shit ruins the sport far more than any pace or lack of scoring issues.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on June 20, 2012, 10:48:18 AM
No shit.  Until they do the retroactive penalties/cards for the floppers nothing will change.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on June 20, 2012, 10:51:15 AM
Sepp Blatter now says that "goal line tech is a necessity" (http://espnfc.com/us/en/news/1109501/sepp-blatter-wants-goalline-tech.html).  Is there anyone more comically incompetent than this asshat?  While just before the 2010 World Cup he was against it.  He is the consummate politician. 

He is such a cockmunch. Hell, the entire soccer world was saying it was a necessity after the 2010 World Cup while he put it on a "meh, we'll see" ignore list. The only thing I can think of is he didn't get enough kickbacks from the companies making GLT until now. Corrupt shitcock.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on June 20, 2012, 12:11:05 PM
No shit.  Until they do the retroactive penalties/cards for the floppers nothing will change.

Well yeah. That too, but I can't imagine retroactive replay is a bad idea in any facet of soccer.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: WayAbvPar on June 20, 2012, 02:04:04 PM
This almost makes the whole Sandusky case worthwhile (http://deadspin.com/5919859/?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_facebook&utm_source=deadspin_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow). I am a horrible person because I can't stop laughing at this.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on June 20, 2012, 03:28:46 PM
I'll become a diehard soccer fan when they start doing something about all of the dives and play acting.  That shit ruins the sport far more than any pace or lack of scoring issues.

And it is unfortunately starting to infiltrate our other sports as well.

Chris Bosh flops like a complete bitch (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2h60uviwKC0)

Lebron being a fucking weenie (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihuOrQHSjWQ&feature=related)

The NBA-  where acting happens.... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKh8Zq6zhRc&feature=related)


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on June 20, 2012, 03:34:27 PM
Yeah and it's already becoming an issue with the commish. However, I can see them stopping it through suspensions. Soccer won't do that.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on June 20, 2012, 04:02:12 PM
Soccer should have done it years ago, but they can't even seem to get their shit together and come up with a simple electronic system to determine whether or not a goal is actually a goal.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Sir T on June 20, 2012, 08:41:16 PM
I was watching the European championships the other day (BTW the Irish team SUCKED and should have been beaten over the head as they got on the plane) and it was pretty stupid. For example, Italian player screams and flops on the ground clutching the back of his leg. The ref ignores it and the guy stays on the ground till the ref is forced to blow the whistle while the Irish team is actually attacking the italian goal for once in their lives in order to see if he is alright. Then the guy gets up, limps a bit then is suddenly jumping over tall buildings again.

And then they run the slowmo and the guy had actually slammed his shin off the back of an irish players leg rather than the other way around.

Even the defenders of the game say that the diving game is ruining the sport. Oddly I watched an american game on ESPN the other day and enjoyed it as there was none of that shit.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on June 21, 2012, 02:34:47 PM
I hope everyone is watching the exhilarating 0-0 tie between the Czechs and Portugal today.   :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on June 21, 2012, 02:41:38 PM
I hope everyone is watching the exhilarating 0-0 tie between the Czechs and Portugal today.   :oh_i_see:

Better than watching a bunch of doped up bicyclists riding around on their ten-speeds, screwing up traffic.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on June 21, 2012, 02:42:55 PM
I would disagree, but to each their own. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on June 21, 2012, 04:02:26 PM
To be fair, the Italian team is NOTORIOUS for being diving bitches. It's one of the reasons I can't watch Seri A games (along with the Italian game being extremely defensive in nature). It infects the other major leagues, but not nearly as much as Seri A or the Italian national team.

Unless FIFA starts retroactively issuing cards for obvious dives, it ain't going away. They already do that sort of thing in the appeals process for red cards (i.e. rescinding a red card giving in error), so why not do it for diving if you are really serious about cutting that shit out of the game.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on June 21, 2012, 08:07:32 PM
Now Sandusky's adopted kid, Matt, has accused him of abuse.  Again, this dude is indefensible.  It's sickening.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Der Helm on June 22, 2012, 06:17:51 PM
(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/12021422/Photos/schland.jpg)


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on June 22, 2012, 09:52:54 PM
Sandusky guilty on 45 counts. He will die in prison.

He got off light.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Abagadro on June 22, 2012, 10:42:30 PM
I doubt he lives long.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: WayAbvPar on June 23, 2012, 04:34:25 AM
Is he still out on bond? If so, he will kill himself. Like he should have done 30 years ago when he started fucking people who couldn't give consent.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on June 23, 2012, 07:06:59 AM
Is he still out on bond? If so, he will kill himself. Like he should have done 30 years ago when he started fucking people who couldn't give consent.

No.  They revoked his bail and took him to jail.  Apparently he'll be kept in solitary confinement for a while, probably to keep an eye on him and see how stable he is.

If he wanted to kill himself he should have done it long before the judgment was passed.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Zetor on June 23, 2012, 09:59:59 AM
I watched the Germany-Greece match from a random pub here in Corfu, and the locals were pretty livid when the Merkinator came on screen  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Der Helm on June 23, 2012, 11:42:23 AM
I watched the Germany-Greece match from a random pub here in Corfu, and the locals were pretty livid when the Merkinator came on screen  :why_so_serious:
They same happens here in Germany. For different reasons, on the other hand maybe not so different at all...  :grin:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on June 23, 2012, 02:40:23 PM
Spain is beating the fuck out of France so far.  It's only 1-0, but they've completely dominated the match.  They look very, very good.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on June 25, 2012, 02:28:30 PM
Oh England, is there no situation you can't fuck up?  :oh_i_see:

I got kind of disgusted with the England-Italy match. Italy was the better team because all England did was sit 10 guys behind the ball almost the entire fucking game. Granted, some of the England internationals are overrated - in particular I'm thinking of James fucking Milner. But there are some quality players on that team, and Hodgson had them lined up like they were a relegation-threatened lightweight up against Man U. Fucking ATTACK for FUCK'S SAKE. Milner starting every game on the right wing was idiotic. He's 1) better in the center of midfield (though not as good as either Parker or Gerrard) and 2) better defensively than offensively so is wasted as a winger. Glenn Johnson's defensive weaknesses luckily didn't affect them (probably because he had Milner back there defending most of the time). Wayne Rooney, whether from ring rust or just his usual disappearing act in big tournaments, was fucking worthless against Italy. Andy FUCKING STATUE Carroll had a better game than Rooney.

EDIT: Also, Germany is going to win the Euros.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on June 25, 2012, 02:56:05 PM
I hope Germany does. I find them the least objectionable of the remaining divefests.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Stewie on June 25, 2012, 02:59:33 PM
I don't know if anyone here watches F1 but the race in Valencia on the weekend was pretty nuts.

I cant stand Lewis and yet I still feel bad for him as he didn't deserve to go out like that.

Overall a great season so far!


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: sigil on June 25, 2012, 07:53:13 PM
I don't know if anyone here watches F1 but the race in Valencia on the weekend was pretty nuts.

I cant stand Lewis and yet I still feel bad for him as he didn't deserve to go out like that.

Overall a great season so far!


I do, but usually time shifted for sometime durning the week.

Also all you people bitching about diving in soccer, MLS rewatches every game and dishes out Reds and fines for diving and other unsportsmanlike conduct.

Also, every single MLS game (save Dalas v Chivas) was more entertaining than the Euro Quarters this weekend. I didn't say higher quality. I said more entertaining.



Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on June 25, 2012, 11:27:07 PM
Germany versus Spain would be a quality match.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on June 26, 2012, 10:48:18 AM
Germany versus Spain would be a quality match.

That's what the final will be.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on June 26, 2012, 11:12:35 AM
You know, I've cheered England on in the past and I can't for the life of me figure out why.  They play the most boring style of football and continually choke.  The only thing interesting about them is that Wayne Rooney is likely to shiv someone at any moment.  I think I'm done.  I'm either adopting Spain or Germany.  Probably Germany because they've brought football out of the dark ages of 89 minutes behind the ball and hope for a lucky cross.   :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on June 26, 2012, 11:28:31 AM
England keeps hiring managers who don't know how to do anything but 4-4-2, 10 behind the ball counter-attacking football. Which works great if you're Fulham, but really shackles players like Gerrard and Ashley Young (who was USELESS this tourney), it really hinders their ability to make plays. Then you sit young talent like Oxlade-Chamberlain and Walcott (say what you want about him, when he was brought on as a sub, he had an impact - except against Italy where the team was told not to move into the other end of the field at all) and it's no wonder the team looks like a creaking inept monstrosity. Spain's football is gorgeous and effective, Germany just bosses the game against everybody but Spain.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on June 26, 2012, 11:34:35 AM
I've never seen a squad control the ball like Spain.  "Oh, bad pass?  You'll be getting the ball back in about an hour". 

I'm really, really hoping that Germany changes the face of European football. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on June 26, 2012, 01:07:18 PM
Put me down for hoping Germany dominates. Fuck the Italians, Portugal, and Spain style of play.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on June 26, 2012, 03:27:15 PM
Oh I enjoy the Spainish style of play the most as a viewer. They completely dominate play because their players are the best goddamn collection of players in the world.

I think Germany wins this Euro because Spain is missing some pretty significant talent in David Villa, and Fernando Torres has shown brief glimpses of his former glory against lesser teams. Germany is not a lesser team, and is only a half notch below Spain on the talent scale. They have fewer injuries to important people and a striker who is firing heat seeking missiles he's so on form. Normal day, I give Spain the nod. When their coach has to resort to using what is in essence 6 midfielders because he doesn't trust his strikers, I give it to Germany.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on June 26, 2012, 11:04:09 PM
I thought Villa was playing.  I swear the announcer called his name against France.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Abagadro on June 27, 2012, 01:54:17 AM
Germany versus Spain would be a quality match.

That's what the final will be.

I'm not so sure. Spain doesn't seem have much in the way of striking at the moment. It will have to be some great stuff From Xavi or Iniesta in the middle to get it done (although they are certainly capable of that). Renaldo, as much as I dislike the guy, seems to be on fire.  A Portugal win would not surprise me at all.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on June 27, 2012, 11:12:24 AM
David Villa didn't play against France, or even feature on the bench.

Spain hasn't really NEEDED striking. While yes, Portugal and Ronaldo are hot at the moment, I think they will lose. Even without a striker, Spain can just boss possession so much that they can minimize Ronaldo's involvement and the rest of the team is not nearly on the same level as Ronaldo. I do expect that Torres will start against Portugal, though.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on June 27, 2012, 11:19:26 AM
Ronaldo is the type of player that can drop 2 or 3 goals on a team in short order, even a good team like Spain. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on June 27, 2012, 03:36:28 PM
Man, this semifinal has been excruciatingly boring.  :x


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on June 27, 2012, 03:51:12 PM
This is why I don't want either team to win this thing. Ugh.

The ref is booking a ham sandwich at this point to keep these cheeseballs from completely cocking up this game.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on June 27, 2012, 04:14:52 PM
 :argh:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on June 27, 2012, 04:16:07 PM
So much diving. So much sloppy passing. Spain actually showed up in extra time, but fuck me, they needed Torres or Llorente to be on the end of some of those crosses they were making once Navas and Rodriguez got in the game.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on June 27, 2012, 04:19:41 PM
Oh Pedro. You are terrible.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on June 27, 2012, 07:35:24 PM
Go Germany!


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on June 28, 2012, 03:31:40 PM
And at this point, I stop caring about Euro 2012. There is absolutely no way this final can be good.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Sjofn on June 28, 2012, 04:14:03 PM
Well boo.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on June 28, 2012, 04:46:00 PM
Italy versus Spain.  Bleh.   :uhrr:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on June 28, 2012, 04:54:51 PM
The part of the game I saw at lunch wasn't too horribly defensive and dive-y, but that was just the first half.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on June 28, 2012, 05:12:10 PM
Well fuck. I didn't get time to watch this streaming at work, and I stupidly read this thread and got my Tivo recording spoiled. But since Italy won, that's really something I don't want to see.

GO SPAIN!


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: rk47 on June 28, 2012, 11:10:41 PM
according to my colleagues at work, germany's piss-poor defending is exposed.
Thank god they drop out now really, because Spain would've exploited it to the fullest -

Most of the office backs Italy now since they're bored of spain.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Cyrrex on June 29, 2012, 12:38:16 AM
Backing Italy is something I cannot bring myself to do.  Boring, defensive football and non-stop diving.  NON STOP.  It is an embarassment to all sports, that kind of bullshit.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Jeff Kelly on June 29, 2012, 08:09:55 AM
There are a few factors at play here actually.

The German line up includes eight Munich players all of which have been at the Champions League final. Look at Schweinsteiger he looked tired and down for most of the Euro. They still haven't gotten over the Chelsea defeat IMO.

It's not piss poor defending but rather sloppy work and an Italian set-up (4-2-3-1 with two strikers playing deep) that's a bit "old school" and harder to defend when you use a more more modern style 4 player block defense. (Also the reason why Greece is unexpectedly effective even though they are not really that good).

All of the players are young (Kroos is 19 for example) and they lack the experience and concentration to keep up their game for a whole tournament.

I see it more as an issue with Löw actually. For someone who wants to be unpredictable and perfect he makes a few choices I don't get

He should have used the starting line up from the Greece game. IMHO tactically a better fit against Italy. His insistence to keep Boateng, Gomez and Schweinsteiger in the starting line up is especially startling since those three have basically been the weak points of an otherwise brilliant and technically sound line up during the competition.

Gomez and Boateng brought down the tactical set up of Germany with their refusal to change their playstyle to help the german game and forced Khedira and Özil to play out of position for most of the match. Gomez because he doesn't support the game in midfield and instead relies on being passed to (and therefore can't support the midfielders during attacks or when they switch to defending) something he has in common with Podoski. A style he has been called out on multiple times during the competition.

You could see how much better the game from midfield was once Podolski and Gomez weren't there any more both at the Italy game and against Greece.

Boateng's sloppy work contributed to much of the disorganisation in the defense and contributed to quite a few chances from Italy. He hadn't improved from the Greece game at all (where his weak game opened up the way for Greece's first goal)

Combine that with the best performance of Italy in this Euro and you have trouble brewing.

Löw's tinkering with tactics and line-ups while brilliant at times contributed heavily to our defeat though.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on June 29, 2012, 09:31:29 AM
Backing Italy is something I cannot bring myself to do.  Boring, defensive football and non-stop diving.  NON STOP.  It is an embarassment to all sports, that kind of bullshit.

They are the Duke basketball of international soccer.   :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on June 29, 2012, 10:24:03 AM
Schweinsteiger had a HORRIBLE game against Greece, one of the worst I've ever seen him play. Normally, he's absolutely rock solid. He looked tired and worn down. His passes were awful. Starting Kroos against Italy was a mistake. I think Muller would have been a better choice, as I think his absence against Spain in World Cup 2010 is one of the reasons they lost that game. I don't have a problem with Gomez starting but agree with you about Boateng. The other guy they started in the 3rd group game would have been the better choice.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on June 29, 2012, 01:13:24 PM
Schweinsteiger was playing injured through the whole tournament, so it isn't too surprising he wasn't up to his normal standards.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Abagadro on July 01, 2012, 03:32:53 PM
Uh, Spain is good.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on July 01, 2012, 11:16:08 PM
Yeah, and Italy punched above their weight by beating Germany, they had to go to penalties to beat an England team that barely even tried to score after the 70th minute. Spain is really that much better than the rest of the freaking world right now, because they spent most of the tourney without even a true striker on the pitch, and still weren't in real danger of getting knocked out the whole time. I didn't expect them to win it because I expected Germany to do better.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on July 01, 2012, 11:18:31 PM
Germany would have given Spain a better match, IMO.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on July 02, 2012, 10:24:40 PM
Fucking exciting win by Mark Cavendish today in the TdF.  The guy still has it with no team to lead him out.  Brings back memories of Robbie McEwan who I used to like quite a bit.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on July 05, 2012, 07:54:35 AM
Lance Armstrong is completely fucked (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/report-hincapie-leipheimer-vande-velde-zabriskie-vaughters-give-evidence-against-armstrong).  The USADA has George Hincapie, Christian Van de Velde, Dave Zabriskie, Jonathan Vaughters and Levi Leipheimer all testifying against Armstrong.  They were all allowed to testify in exchange for 6 month doping suspensions.  

Edit-  Now Vaughters is denying any suspensions have been levied (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/vaughters-no-slipstream-sports-usada-suspensions). 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on July 07, 2012, 08:44:34 AM
How they can let Serena Williams still compete in Tennis without ridiculous testing on her is beyond me. Her body looks like nothing else on the woman's tour.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on July 07, 2012, 11:47:03 PM
All it would require is a panty check.   :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Llyse on July 10, 2012, 11:47:42 PM
Finally watched the game after giving myself a media blackout, Ecstatic that Federer won another Wimbledon and broke more records, bad luck to Murray but maybe next year...  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on July 11, 2012, 09:21:33 AM
Can't wait to watch the tour tonight.  I was thinking I might like Wiggins, but he seems to be a major fucktard so I'm pulling for Evans.  According to Cyclingnews Evans has been putting a lot of heat on Wiggins.  I love the mountains. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on July 12, 2012, 09:19:29 AM
The Penn State investigation report just got released this morning.

Holy hell.  :ye_gods:

It proves in extreme detail how this thing was being covered up at the highest levels, including by JoePa, since 1998.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on July 12, 2012, 09:37:00 AM
You know, the idea that Penn State concealed facts regarding Jerry Sandusky's little boy romps was something that most of those familiar with the issue, i.e. everyone, suspected, but this new report from the former FBI director Louis Freeh (http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8159195/report-says-penn-state-senior-officials-disregarded-children-welfare) is pretty much going to fuck Penn State.  They should get their checkbooks ready because they are going to be out millions of dollars by the time this is all over.  


Quote
The report concluded that Paterno, president Graham Spanier, athletic director Tim Curley and vice president Gary Schultz "failed to protect against a child sexual predator harming children for over a decade."

"In order to avoid the consequences of bad publicity, the most powerful leaders at the university -- Spanier, Schultz, Paterno and Curley -- repeatedly concealed critical facts relating to Sandusky's child abuse," the report said.

The NCAA released a statement after the report came out Thursday morning.

"Like everyone else, we are reviewing the final report for the first time today," the statement read. "As President Emmert wrote in his Nov. 17 letter to Penn State President Rodney Erickson and reiterated this week, the university has four key questions, concerning compliance with institutional control and ethics policies, to which it now needs to respond. Penn State's response to the letter will inform our next steps, including whether or not to take further action. We expect Penn State's continued cooperation in our examination of these issues."

My personal hope is that this will open up some eyes as to what is considered proper reporting of these issues.  I know that many in my own profession are negligent in reporting problems of this sort (physical and sexual abuse) when confronted with it because of the fear of legal ramifications for themselves, i.e. getting sued.  Still, there's a fine line between reporting inappropriate contact between kids and adults and creating an enormous quagmire of whistleblowers and lawsuits and tedious investigations over every minute complaint that is made.  I can't help but believe that you could prevent most of these issues with appropriate rules and regulations regarding contact with minors (or really anyone) in a social area.  There's really no reason for two people to be in a room with the door closed by themselves.  There should always be a third person mediator involved.  Additionally, there should always, always, always be windows in any door that isn't a bathroom or changing room.  

And I guess the next step for Penn State and the government of Pennsylvania is to go after these people that covered up this mess fairly aggressively.  I don't know if criminal charges could be filed, but every avenue possible to do so should be explored.

What a mess.   :facepalm:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on July 12, 2012, 09:54:49 AM
The next step imo is to cancel the 2012 football season before the NCAA gives you the death penalty for doing nothing.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on July 12, 2012, 10:00:58 AM
The next step imo is to cancel the 2012 football season before the NCAA gives you the death penalty for doing nothing.

Seriously, fuck what the NCAA has to say about it.  PSU should be worried about civil and criminal penalties first.  While I tend to agree with you about cancelling the season, I don't think it will do a bit of good for their impending legal woes.  I'm also thinking about this from more of a prevention standpoint. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on July 12, 2012, 10:07:21 AM
Oh they are worried about their cash for sure. Which is why they will want to have a football season so they can pay off their debts.

This is about as close to the death penalty situation as you can get for a college football program. SMU got it for running cash slush funds through the university and repeatedly covering it up at the highest levels. These cover ups are even worse.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on July 12, 2012, 10:27:30 AM
And somewhere on the University of Miami's campus, an athletic director is breathing a little easier.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on July 12, 2012, 10:35:42 AM
And Ohio State. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on July 12, 2012, 10:39:13 AM
People are already arguing that the NCAA has no right to stop Penn State from playing football. That's ridiculous. The athletic department as a whole failed. It's the very definition of a program operating completely independently off the university, and in this case being ABOVE the university.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on July 12, 2012, 10:45:25 AM
I think that the NCAA governs for particular issues and this may not fall within their focus.  I don't think anyone would mind (other than PSU fans) if the NCAA were to suspend them for a year or two.  They won't do it, though, as PSU is one of the most beloved institutions in the country and a HUGE moneymaker for the NCAA.  Money talks.  It won't happen.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on July 12, 2012, 10:50:36 AM
I think that the NCAA governs for particular issues and this may not fall within their focus.  I don't think anyone would mind (other than PSU fans) if the NCAA were to suspend them for a year or two.  They won't do it, though, as PSU is one of the most beloved institutions in the country and a HUGE moneymaker for the NCAA.  Money talks.  It won't happen.

I think there's too much vitriol. This is a defining moment for the NCAA to see if they care only about the cash. It would cause a very large problem in the community if they just ignore it.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on July 12, 2012, 10:56:23 AM
I don't think they will ignore it, but they won't give PSU the death penalty.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on July 12, 2012, 11:15:30 AM
The Penn State investigation report just got released this morning.

Holy hell.  :ye_gods:

It proves in extreme detail how this thing was being covered up at the highest levels, including by JoePa, since 1998.

IMO, anyone who knew about this shit and didn't tell police or testify at the trial needs to be in jail with Sandusky, toot suite. Ass-covering shitheels running the school letting that shit go on AND alerting the coach he had been caught just wrong on so many levels.

EDIT: And the NCAA, they need to get on the rape train to PSU just as fucking quickly. When you have a coach, AD and university president covering up CHILD MOLESTATION because it might make the football program look bad? It's time to not have those pretty football toys anymore.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on July 12, 2012, 11:30:06 AM
One thing I don't like about this is that people are acting like this is a PSU problem and only a PSU problem.  There need to be evaluations at all institutions to make sure that their policies and training is appropriate for this type of situation.  One of the only ways you're going to get that is by completely destroying the PSU athletics program.

Addendum:  Here's the full Freeh report (http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/.element/img/4.0/global/swapper/201207/120712.01.pdf), if anyone wants to read it and is lazy. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on July 12, 2012, 11:39:19 AM
That's the NCAA's problem as a whole. All the violations the NCAA finds and reports on lean towards school athletics departments being corrupt, just that most of it is being covered up well. A university like Miami still having any athletics program after all the shit their football program has been up to over the years makes the NCAA look like a joke. And that's just for strippers, cash and tattoos and shit. When there's child-fucking going on? If the NCAA doesn't bring the hammer down, what good are they? It would just prove that successful, popular football programs can get away with anything.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on July 12, 2012, 12:05:51 PM
From what I understand from reading the sports news outlets, the NCAA has been in touch with the PSU folks in regard to this.  A discussion on Mike and Mike or somewhere else that I was listening to suggested that it is pretty up in the air as to whether or not the NCAA can do anything.  Is this scenario addressed in their rules?  I don't know the answer to that question, but I doubt it unless it is some generalized catch all rule that would set them up for a lawsuit.  I doubt the NCAA is going to have the balls to go up against that.

But to answer your question-  the NCAA is no good.  They are a corrupt organization that is money hungry and biased. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on July 12, 2012, 12:11:27 PM
This has nothing to do with the stuff the NCAA has oversight over, though? Sandusky wasn't part of the football program when this stuff was going on, it didn't affect any student-athletes participating in NCAA programs, it all happened in a 3rd party charity, etc. etc. etc. I'm pretty sure it would be overstepping their power to do anything about this; the civil and criminal aspects of this all are going to fuck Penn State sufficiently anyway I would think. Seems like a prime 'get out of the way and let the real goverment do the fucking' moment to me.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on July 12, 2012, 12:14:42 PM
It all has to do with what is in the "lack of institutional control" rules.  This is pretty damned clearly lack of institutional control as it involved football coaches and football facilities, but are the rules tight enough to encompass something that is quite different than they (the NCAA) are used to dealing with?  Who knows?  And in the end it will come down to whether or not the NCAA decides to continue its corrupt, greedy ways or grow a pair and do the right thing.  I'm suspecting it will be the former.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on July 12, 2012, 12:32:08 PM
Nike will be changing the name of their Child Development Center and will remove Joe Paterno's name from the facility (http://sports.yahoo.com/news/report-nike-change-name-paterno-172013250--ncaaf.html). 


 :awesome_for_real:

I'm not sure why Nike didn't do this a long time ago, but at least they finally wised up.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on July 12, 2012, 01:00:24 PM
This has nothing to do with the stuff the NCAA has oversight over, though? Sandusky wasn't part of the football program when this stuff was going on, it didn't affect any student-athletes participating in NCAA programs, it all happened in a 3rd party charity, etc. etc. etc. I'm pretty sure it would be overstepping their power to do anything about this; the civil and criminal aspects of this all are going to fuck Penn State sufficiently anyway I would think. Seems like a prime 'get out of the way and let the real goverment do the fucking' moment to me.

It doesn't matter if Sandusky was employed. He was named a Coach Emeritus and had universal access to the Penn State program. The program itself knew about the issues on its watch and in its facilities. The highest levels of the program browbeat employees to keep it under wraps because they were afraid it would affect their program.

Ask yourself this question before you say it's not an NCAA problem: Would this have happened if the guy in question was a random physics professor? Would it have happened if it was the janitor? Would it have been covered up if the victims weren't random children, but actual relatives of university members? At every juncture, the administration chose football and money over justice and action. It happened because Jerry Sundusky was given access to the program by the administration, and that was the very currency he used to lure young boys into his web.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on July 12, 2012, 01:02:30 PM
Ask yourself this question before you say it's not an NCAA problem: Would this have happened if the guy in question was a random physics professor? Would it have happened if it was the janitor? Would it have been covered up if the victims weren't random children, but actual relatives of university members? At every juncture, the administration chose football and money over justice and action. It happened because Jerry Sundusky was given access to the program by the administration, and that was the very currency he used to lure young boys into his web.

I've seen blatant alcoholism, drug use, theft and other issues covered up by administrations, so it's probably not too far fetched to think that a similar situation has occurred somewhere, at some time that wasn't related to sports. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on July 12, 2012, 01:06:25 PM
Ask yourself this question before you say it's not an NCAA problem: Would this have happened if the guy in question was a random physics professor? Would it have happened if it was the janitor? Would it have been covered up if the victims weren't random children, but actual relatives of university members? At every juncture, the administration chose football and money over justice and action. It happened because Jerry Sundusky was given access to the program by the administration, and that was the very currency he used to lure young boys into his web.

I've seen blatant alcoholism, drug use, theft and other issues covered up by administrations, so it's probably not too far fetched to think that a similar situation has occurred somewhere, at some time that wasn't related to sports. 

And those problems are mostly individual without individual victims. It's not the same. A similar issue would be covering up a rape charge.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on July 12, 2012, 01:13:32 PM
Ask yourself this question before you say it's not an NCAA problem: Would this have happened if the guy in question was a random physics professor? Would it have happened if it was the janitor? Would it have been covered up if the victims weren't random children, but actual relatives of university members? At every juncture, the administration chose football and money over justice and action. It happened because Jerry Sundusky was given access to the program by the administration, and that was the very currency he used to lure young boys into his web.

I've seen blatant alcoholism, drug use, theft and other issues covered up by administrations, so it's probably not too far fetched to think that a similar situation has occurred somewhere, at some time that wasn't related to sports. 

And those problems are mostly individual without individual victims. It's not the same. A similar issue would be covering up a rape charge.

Coverups happen all the time.  You still haven't convinced me that the NCAA has a clear stake in this game. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on July 12, 2012, 01:21:00 PM
I can't see how the NCAA wouldn't haven't some power over this. If they can skullfuck a program because a kid traded a trophy he won for a tattoo, why can't it handle a situation where the head coach and athletic director coerced a student coach (and now actual coach employed by the school) to cover up a fucking crime? I think they'd be stretching it a great deal if they tried to claim they COULDN'T do anything about this.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Trippy on July 12, 2012, 01:23:04 PM
This has nothing to do with the stuff the NCAA has oversight over, though? Sandusky wasn't part of the football program when this stuff was going on, it didn't affect any student-athletes participating in NCAA programs, it all happened in a 3rd party charity, etc. etc. etc. I'm pretty sure it would be overstepping their power to do anything about this; the civil and criminal aspects of this all are going to fuck Penn State sufficiently anyway I would think. Seems like a prime 'get out of the way and let the real goverment do the fucking' moment to me.
He was still a coach in 1998 when the first reported incident was investigated.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on July 12, 2012, 01:25:30 PM
I can't see how the NCAA wouldn't haven't some power over this. If they can skullfuck a program because a kid traded a trophy he won for a tattoo, why can't it handle a situation where the head coach and athletic director coerced a student coach (and now actual coach employed by the school) to cover up a fucking crime? I think they'd be stretching it a great deal if they tried to claim they COULDN'T do anything about this.

They may.  Only an attorney (and I suspect a lot of attorneys) can say for sure.  And I don't think it will be a matter of "Couldn't do anything about this".  They will do something, it's just a matter of what.  Will it be a slap on the wrist or will it be the death penalty?  I'd like to see them shut PSU down for a couple of years to prove a point, but it probably won't happen.  So you're probably looking at a post-season ban for a year or two or lost scholarships, which seem to me to be slap on the wrist type penalties. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on July 12, 2012, 01:31:32 PM
Under Compliance Principles of Institutional Control, Section C - Act that are likely to Demonstrate Lack of Control

#7 - A director of athletics or any other individual with compliance responsibilities
fails to investigate or direct an investigation of a possible significant violation of
NCAA rules or fails to report a violation properly.

#8 - A head coach fails to create and maintain an atmosphere for compliance within
the program the coach supervises or fails to monitor the activities of assistant
coaches regarding compliance.

Also, a Level 1 violation is now loosely listed as "A violation that seriously undermines or threatens the integrity of any of the NCAA enduring values"


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on July 12, 2012, 01:34:56 PM
The application of those rules to this situation sounds dicey to me, but I'm no attorney.  I'd love to hear one of the board attorneys' opinions on the matter. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on July 14, 2012, 09:06:26 AM
Looks like Penn State is going to renovate their showers (http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8164484/penn-state-nittany-lions-renovate-areas-where-boys-were-abused-jerry-sandusky) to make them less child molester friendly after the Sandusky revelations. 

I can't think of anything that falls more into the "oh fuck we've got to do something to make it look like we're doing something" category.  How about just having a rule that old men don't take little boys into the showers and if you do  you get the police called on you and you're fired?  I can legitimately see Penn State being relegated in all fields (academic, athletic, research) due to the amount of money that they're going to lose on this mess. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on July 17, 2012, 08:47:01 AM
Looks like Mark Emmert is considering heavy penalties (http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8171574/jerry-sandusky-scandal-ncaa-president-mark-emmert-signals-heavy-sanctions-penn-state) against PSU for the Sandusky issues.

I suspect that he (and the NCAA) will be all roar and then will hit them with little bite.  He's got some pretty strong words for PSU as of right now, however.

Quote
Still reeling from the content of the Freeh report, Emmert did not dismiss the notion of issuing the so-called "death penalty" against Penn State, asserting that the unprecedented nature of the Sandusky scandal could warrant extreme punishment.

"This is completely different than an impermissible benefits scandal like happened at SMU, or anything else we've dealt with," Emmert said. "This is as systemic a cultural problem as it is a football problem. There have been people that said this wasn't a football scandal.

"Well it was more than a football scandal, much more than a football scandal. It was that but much more. And we'll have to figure out exactly what the right penalties are. I don't know that past precedent makes particularly good sense in this case, because it's really an unprecedented problem."

I think this is a pretty clear signal to PSU that they need to get some self imposed penalties in order and they better be good.  If they don't, the NCAA may bring down a huge hammer. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on July 17, 2012, 10:32:13 AM
They need to cancel this season, I think. There's nothing good that can come from these kids playing in opposing stadiums, nor can any PSU fan take pride in their product right now.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on July 17, 2012, 10:37:27 AM
There's nothing good that can come from these kids playing in opposing stadiums

Yeah, I think you're right.  Hopefully greed won't win out.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on July 17, 2012, 01:28:03 PM
They need to cancel this season, I think. There's nothing good that can come from these kids playing in opposing stadiums, nor can any PSU fan take pride in their product right now.

At the very fucking least. I hate it for the kids who had nothing to do with it, but the utter callous lack of compassion for even younger children is just beyond the pale.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Trippy on July 17, 2012, 01:42:01 PM
It's not like people are going to forget about this after a year, though. So what happens in 2013 if they cancel this year?

The best reason I heard for letting them play is that they are going to need to money to pay off all the lawsuits :awesome_for_real: :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on July 17, 2012, 01:45:47 PM
Yeah, but I think that people will be much more forgiving of a bad situation if they self impose the death penalty for a year or two.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on July 17, 2012, 01:52:46 PM
It's not like people are going to forget about this after a year, though. So what happens in 2013 if they cancel this year?

The best reason I heard for letting them play is that they are going to need to money to pay off all the lawsuits :awesome_for_real: :oh_i_see:


The 1.8 billion endowment should take care of that.

But yes, a year out of the public eye will help put some of these issues to rest. The problem right now is that not even all the lawsuits or criminal cases are concluded. That break would give things time to get resolved.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on July 17, 2012, 02:06:34 PM
These civil cases will be dragging on for years to come. 

There's also the chance that cancelling the season could bring even more scrutiny on PSU.  I still think it's the right thing to do, but they're properly fucked with all of this. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Sir T on July 17, 2012, 02:13:09 PM
I'm watching BBC news 24 right now, and so far its wall to wall Olympic cockups. Great entertainment.   :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on July 17, 2012, 02:17:46 PM
I'm watching BBC news 24 right now, and so far its wall to wall Olympic cockups. Great entertainment.   :why_so_serious:

Who would put a guy named Buckles in charge of anything but a clown car?


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: WayAbvPar on July 17, 2012, 03:34:14 PM
I would like to see the other schools on the PSU schedule refuse to play them and force their hand. There really isn't a big enough fuck you anyone could deliver compared to what is deserved, but it would be a nice start.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on July 17, 2012, 03:39:07 PM
I would like to see the other schools on the PSU schedule refuse to play them and force their hand. There really isn't a big enough fuck you anyone could deliver compared to what is deserved, but it would be a nice start.

No way will moral outrage outweigh the moneys from the games. What society do you think we live in? College football is one of the biggest money grabs in the world... no way they kill the cash cow by voluntarily forfeiting a game against PSU, no matter what the moral message would say. Not saying I fully disagree with you, but let's be realistic.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on July 17, 2012, 03:43:40 PM
He was being realistic.  He just said what he would like to see, not what would likely happen. 

I think that would also be a fantastic way for the opposing schools to show their distaste.  Even better, kick them out of the Big Ten.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on July 17, 2012, 10:45:20 PM
Frank Schleck out of the tour for a positive test (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/frank-schleck-speaks-with-police-in-pau).  Apparently it was a diuretic.  

I love how his team manager throws him under the bus, as if he had no clue:
Quote
Shortly after 10pm, RadioShack-Nissan press officer Philippe Maertens came to the gates of the hotel to field questions from the reporters gathered outside.

"We're all a bit devastated but we can't do anything, we can only acknowledge the facts and see what happens. It's up to Fränk himself to find an explanation," Maertens said, adding that it "had not yet been decided" if Schleck would seek an analysis of his B sample.

Schleck's positive test dates from July 14, the day of stage 13 of the Tour to Le Cap d'Agde and Maertens said that the team had no reason to suspect such an occurrence before the race began.

"No, there were no doubts. If the team had doubts about him, they wouldn't have brought him to the Tour de France," he said.

Schleck himself has yet to make a public pronouncement on the matter, but Maertens said that the rider was surprised by the news: "He has no explanation."

Addendum-  apparently Schleck is going with the "I was poisoned" defense, which isn't too far fetched if these guys are grabbing random bottles on their trek up a big hill. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Korachia on July 18, 2012, 11:00:21 AM
The culture in bicycle sport is sick and rotten. Just turn it into total entertainment @ "american-wrestling-on-bikes" or burn the whole thing down.  

Harder and more doping control is certainly justifiable! Hell keep the samples of riders and especially winners for 50 years, and test them with 5 year interval with all the newest tests available. And if they get caught, take away their titles and exclude them from participating in any kind of bicycle activities, like riding, training teams, managing, hell even driving the cars of bicycle teams. People that have already been caught and / or admitted to doping needs to be excluded as well. Having people like e.g. Riis managing a team just means he transfer on the sick and rotten culture (Schleck drove for him, and many many others that have been caught rode for him). Remove them immediately. Burn down the house I say and rebuild from the bottom.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on July 18, 2012, 11:22:48 AM
The culture has been that way for years.  In the beginning nobody gave a shit about doping.  Everyone was taking amphetamines and cow testicle extract and whatever else they could get their hands on to make their performance better.  The concept of doping in cycling is relatively new phenomenon (since the 1960s, I believe).  I think that you're right though, that it is a rotten culture, but I think a lot of that feeling is brought about by the testing process itself.  Paelos and I have argued about this pretty much until it's been argued out, but I think cycling is a prime example of failed doping controls.  And I'm not sure its fixable.  I personally say let them have at it.  It's already a risky sport. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Korachia on July 18, 2012, 11:31:38 AM
Its absolutely possible to fix it. If we assume most doping is one step ahead of doping tests that can catch, all it takes is continue testing of the samples years (and many years after) and then hammer them so bloody hard that they wont be able to be part of racing again if/when they get caught. Hell, make them sign contracts before participating in the big races, that if they do get caught they can be sued for every little penny they have made.

And all the current known riders and former riders that have taken drugs and is still part of the game? Put them on the stake and burn them I say. I dont care if that means you also chase away those that have actually changed, because when the whole house is filled with rats, its better to tear it down totally.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on July 18, 2012, 12:02:59 PM
I guess my thought is how much that is going to really make cycling (or any sport) completely unenjoyable to watch and follow.  I don't think people understand how much of a witch hunt it would have to be to find everyone that is doping (mechanical, chemical, whatever).

Also, if you're going to clean it up I think what you're suggesting is the only way to do it.  I'm just not sure the people in charge are incorruptible enough to make it work, e.g. the Lance Armstrong situation.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on July 22, 2012, 10:56:50 AM
It was awesome to see Wiggins leading out Cavendish for the sprint on the Champs Elysees.  He's done that several times during the tour and it makes me think more highly of him. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on July 26, 2012, 08:53:10 PM
Neil Reed, the guy that Bobby Knight choked in the famous incident that got him fired, has died at age 36 (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/8204126/sources-indiana-hoosier-neil-reed-figure-bobby-knight-firing-dies-36).  You can't beat Bobby. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on July 26, 2012, 09:17:37 PM
Neil Reed, the guy that Bobby Knight choked in the famous incident that got him fired, has died at age 36 (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/8204126/sources-indiana-hoosier-neil-reed-figure-bobby-knight-firing-dies-36).  You can't beat Bobby. 

He supposedly died of cardiac arrest in his 30s. This can mean what we all think it means. Druuuuuuuuuuuuuugs.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on July 27, 2012, 08:23:03 AM
That's definitely high on the list.  Or one of the genetic disorders that greatly increases your chances of dying for an MI early in life. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on August 03, 2012, 02:59:28 PM
Glad to see that Luther Campbell has been cleared to coach high school football in Florida (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/highschool/08/03/luther-campbell-certification/index.html?sct=hp_t2_a9&eref=sihp).  Now he can mold some young minds to do what is proper.   :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on August 03, 2012, 03:17:24 PM
Seriously? They were going to block him on the grounds of raunchy lyrics?

The article reads more like terms of a court sentence than a teaching license.  :uhrr:

Fucking Florida, man.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on August 03, 2012, 03:22:39 PM
I don't think that I, as a parent, would love for my kid to be playing football for Luther Campbell.  I'd have to meet him first and see what he was like.  

Addendum-  I love Rage Against the Machine, but would be loathe to have Zach de la Rocha coaching my kid in football.  I love lots of bands but would be loathe to have them coaching my kid in football.  I loathe 2 live crew and would be super loathe to have Luther Campbell coaching my kid.  


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: sickrubik on August 03, 2012, 03:39:54 PM
I don't think that I, as a parent, would love for my kid to be playing football for Luther Campbell.  I'd have to meet him first and see what he was like.  

Addendum-  I love Rage Against the Machine, but would be loathe to have Zach de la Rocha coaching my kid in football.  I love lots of bands but would be loathe to have them coaching my kid in football.  I loathe 2 live crew and would be super loathe to have Luther Campbell coaching my kid.  

Wait... what? How are we comparing the two?

Also, the last 2 Live Crew album was nearly 20 years ago. The one that caused all the drama was nearer a quarter century ago. (Add in usual "artist license" and does not mean that the person is like that, etc etc.)


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on August 03, 2012, 03:42:52 PM
Rage is pretty over the top. at times  It's not a stretch to compare. 

Still, I would have to meet Luther and see what he was actually about before I let me kid play football for him.  That's no different than I'd expect for any coach.  I like to form my opinions in person.  He doesn't have a background I'd like to see in someone that is educating my kid, however.   


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on August 03, 2012, 03:43:47 PM
Well sure, you'd probably rather have someone with a long history of coaching, who started his own charity, etc.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on August 03, 2012, 03:45:50 PM
No, I'd rather have someone that wasn't into shitty rap.  I'd also rather not have Jerry Sandusky.  I'd also not like to have my football coach. 

I'm sorry, but I'm into high character people teaching and coaching my kids. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: sickrubik on August 03, 2012, 03:51:13 PM
Rage is pretty over the top. at times  It's not a stretch to compare.

Yeah, I like that one song where the sing about fucking bitches and partying. Are you afraid your kid would turn into a commie?

Still, I would have to meet Luther and see what he was actually about before I let me kid play football for him.  That's no different than I'd expect for any coach.  I like to form my opinions in person.  He doesn't have a background I'd like to see in someone that is educating my kid, however.  

So, if it's something you would expect from any coach, it's not a matter of who he is/was, really. He's clearly been coaching and doing well. I'm not sure how his past comes into this, and I'm not sure when someone is allowed to be separated from that persona. he's pretty far removed from being "that guy'. And he was never even "that guy".... his most criminal thing is child support, which is shitty mind you... but I'm not clear what you are afraid of here.

Besides, Sandusky never made a rap album.

No, I'd rather have someone that wasn't into shitty rap.  I'd also rather not have Jerry Sandusky.  I'd also not like to have my football coach. 

I'm sorry, but I'm into high character people teaching and coaching my kids. 

What are you even talking about. "High Character"? And is it just the quality of the rap? What? Do you think that Anthony Hopkins actually ate people?


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on August 03, 2012, 03:58:13 PM
No, I'd rather have someone that wasn't into shitty rap.  I'd also rather not have Jerry Sandusky.  I'd also not like to have my football coach. 

I'm sorry, but I'm into high character people teaching and coaching my kids. 

Well my point was mostly that you really can't tell by appearances.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on August 03, 2012, 04:07:01 PM
his most criminal thing is child support, which is shitty mind you...

He refers to one of his daughters as the "sperm donation" and paid her mother back child support in pennies.

Not exactly sure that's the kind of dude I want teaching young men.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on August 03, 2012, 04:14:25 PM
Perhaps not, although on the other hand sometimes people learn better from someone who can give real examples of how bad decisions screwed them over, you know? I don't know, this doesn't strike me as David Lee Roth becoming a paramedic, it isn't a publicity stunt or anything, there wouldn't even be any coverage if it wasn't for the fact that he had to fight for the approval as far as I can tell. Seems to be a pretty genuine desire to help.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on August 03, 2012, 04:20:32 PM
No, but this is information about his estrangement from his own kids as recently as 10 months ago. If a guy expresses interest in teaching youth, I'd like to make sure he made amends with his own kids first.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: sickrubik on August 03, 2012, 04:27:36 PM
his most criminal thing is child support, which is shitty mind you...

He refers to one of his daughters as the "sperm donation" and paid her mother back child support in pennies.

Not exactly sure that's the kind of dude I want teaching young men.

Cite your sources, for those of us that aren't deep into "Rage". Given what I know about them as a band politically, I have to imagine that might need a hell of a lot of context.

As far as estrangement goes... I have no idea about any of that.

Along the lines of what Ingmar says, at what point do you "let" someone be a valuable member of society again. This sort of thing is why recidivism, in part, is so high.

I will say that one should definitely get to know the kids teachers/coaches.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on August 03, 2012, 04:29:33 PM
Man, if we exclude everyone with estranged family from teaching... we're going to be missing a lot of teachers suddenly.

EDIT: Also, I'm sorry, it just bugs the shit out of me when we treat people like ex-criminals when they aren't. It is bad enough when we do it to actual ex-criminals. I have a hard time seeing Florida raking a white dude with a comparable history (Andrew Dice Clay becomes a math teacher?) over the coals in the same way, too.

I'd feel a little better about it if I thought Florida really gave a shit about the misogyny angle as opposed to the dirty, dirty lyrics thing.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on August 03, 2012, 05:03:53 PM
I have a hard time seeing Florida raking a white dude with a comparable history (Andrew Dice Clay becomes a math teacher?) over the coals in the same way, too.

Also not teaching my kid math.  It's okay to realize that someone has a shitty character from what they portray to the public even if it isn't illegal.  Dice Clay is a douchebag.  Luther Campbell is a douchebag.  There's any number of douchebags around that I don't want coaching or teaching my kid.  I think I'm being generous to say that I would at least talk to Campbell before yanking my kid off of the team.  

Addendum-  I'm also going to add that I always find it shocking when people defend a completely sexist idiot like Campbell.  It happens a lot with the rap artists.  Why?  I have no idea.  Is it because they are black?  Fuck, who knows.  I don't like sexism or racism.  And I don't want my kid being around someone that perpetuates either of them. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: sickrubik on August 03, 2012, 05:34:34 PM
So, he can't ever do anything good ever because of what he did before?

Also, nice strawman arguments you're building there.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on August 03, 2012, 05:51:30 PM
Yeah I dunno, I mean, do we still hold License to Ill aganst the Beastie Boys even after everything they've done to apologize/make up for it? If not, then obviously there's a continuum here. (And if we do hold it against them, I am so dropping this conversation.)

In any case, I don't really think saying 'we shouldn't treat him like a criminal just because he did some really stupid, non-illegal shit 20+ years ago' is really defending the stupid shit he did in any way.



Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on August 03, 2012, 06:00:18 PM
Yeah I dunno, I mean, do we still hold License to Ill aganst the Beastie Boys even after everything they've done to apologize/make up for it? If not, then obviously there's a continuum here. (And if we do hold it against them, I am so dropping this conversation.)

In any case, I don't really think saying 'we shouldn't treat him like a criminal just because he did some really stupid, non-illegal shit 20+ years ago' is really defending the stupid shit he did in any way.



Okay, License to Ill is a really stupid comparison.  Also, why are you defending a sexist moron?  You gonna let your daughter have a sleep over at his house?  What about David Duke?  You hip on him being your kid's football coach?  I'm not. 

sickrubik-  I love it when people claim "straw man" argument.  It makes me laugh.  Make an argument yourself, don't be a moron.  


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on August 03, 2012, 06:10:31 PM
What we know, is that he was a sexist moron 23 years ago, who is apparently now trying to do something positive. I'll stand up for someone trying to turn their shit around every time without feeling bad about it, if I think there's reason to believe they're sincere about it.

I mean let's take Michael Vick. His crime was a lot worse than releasing a shitty offensive rap album (like, it was an actual crime) and since then he's done the right thing in every way he should and seems to have genuinely turned over a new leaf. I'm willing to accept him back into society and give him his job back, it seems clear to me that he's learned his lesson, is sincere, has done his time and everything that's been asked of him. And I like animals way more than I like people.  :why_so_serious:

So no, you're not going to make me feel bad about taking this position in the discussion.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on August 03, 2012, 06:24:43 PM
Cite your sources, for those of us that aren't deep into "Rage".

From the daughter: http://thegrio.com/2011/08/29/campbell-it-broke-my-heart-to-be-referred-to-as-a-donation/
Here's where he was arrested in 2009: http://www.wsvn.com/news/articles/local/MI113267/
Here's the quote he made in 2010: http://theurbandaily.com/819775/luke-campbell-issues-statement-on-sperm-donor-comments/

Quote
“When you get a check, the results of that check ends up where your sperm donation kids are online talking bad about you after you spent millions and millions dollars in child support.”

He's making these comments as of 2-3 years ago. Dude hasn't changed. He's still a dick.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on August 03, 2012, 06:34:00 PM
 :facepalm: I like how the 3 page SI article about all the good shit he's done for the kids he's coaching mentions none of that.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on August 03, 2012, 07:33:25 PM
:facepalm: I like how the 3 page SI article about all the good shit he's done for the kids he's coaching mentions none of that.

Paterno did some good shit for people too, but remember that we threw that out the window.  

Seriously, why are you going to defend a sexist asshole?  It makes absolutely no sense to me bro.  Edited to add-  I'm not going to get all Google-fu on you about what Campbell has done.  I would legitimately like to know why he deserves my respect and why I should trust him enough to let my kid spend time with him in a forced leadership position.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on August 03, 2012, 08:27:07 PM
Because if we take the SI article at face value, he's doing legitimately good things for these kids. That goes on one side of the scale, the other stuff goes on the other, and we can quibble about if it outweighs it or not, but I am pretty sure in this case it doesn't. I don't really see what I am arguing as 'defending' him in any case. Lots of assholes do good things in other arenas. If he wants to do something that's a net good for the kids he's helping, why stand in his way?

There are very few people out there with no redeeming qualities at all.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on August 03, 2012, 09:35:57 PM
If he wants to help, there are numerous outlets other than coaching youth. I question the outlet, not that he can/will/wants-to/is-capable of change.

I'm not saying he shouldn't try to give back to the community. I'm just suspect of a man with those suspect values, towards both women and his own children, being in a role model position for young men.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on August 03, 2012, 09:54:01 PM
Yeah, I guess I would feel bad for him if he had a drunk driving conviction 20 years ago and still couldn't get a job.  I see your point, but at the same time I, as a father, would be very careful about letting my kid be associated with him. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: sickrubik on August 05, 2012, 05:28:27 PM
sickrubik-  I love it when people claim "straw man" argument.  It makes me laugh.  Make an argument yourself, don't be a moron.  

Well, the problem I was having with that is that you were attempting to put me in positions that I don't support. It was the definition of a straw man, and it's annoying to deal with when you're attempting to have a discussion, regardless of how heated. Because you didn't agree with my points or ignored them doesn't mean I wasn't making an argument.

I'll leave it at that. I had a busy weekend with the fiancee's birthday so I wasn't able to come and check in at all. But it looks like the discussion moved along great, thankfully.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on August 05, 2012, 05:31:20 PM
sickrubik-  I love it when people claim "straw man" argument.  It makes me laugh.  Make an argument yourself, don't be a moron.  

Well, the problem I was having with that is that you were attempting to put me in positions that I don't support. It was the definition of a straw man, and it's annoying to deal with when you're attempting to have a discussion, regardless of how heated. Because you didn't agree with my points or ignored them doesn't mean I wasn't making an argument.

I'll leave it at that. I had a busy weekend with the fiancee's birthday so I wasn't able to come and check in at all. But it looks like the discussion moved along great, thankfully.

Actually, I was pretty squarely pointing that one at Paelos and Ingmar.  Sorry for the mixup!   :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: sickrubik on August 05, 2012, 05:36:22 PM
Cite your sources, for those of us that aren't deep into "Rage".

From the daughter: http://thegrio.com/2011/08/29/campbell-it-broke-my-heart-to-be-referred-to-as-a-donation/
Here's where he was arrested in 2009: http://www.wsvn.com/news/articles/local/MI113267/
Here's the quote he made in 2010: http://theurbandaily.com/819775/luke-campbell-issues-statement-on-sperm-donor-comments/

on reviewing the thread, I don't know where I got my signals crossed and through that was in reference to Zach de la Rocha. I'm going to assume I was still confused about how we were comparing Zach de le Rocha and Luther Campbell.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on August 05, 2012, 05:40:37 PM
Oh, I'm just saying that De La Rocha can be a raging prick and uses lots of profanity.  I just threw him out there as an example because he was on my mind (was listening at the time).  There are about a billion people out there that I wouldn't want to teach/coach my kid. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on August 05, 2012, 05:56:57 PM
In other news...

I got to go to the Championship game yesterday at Heinz field for the WFA http://www.wfafootball.com/

It actually was a fun watch and some of those women were insanely good. Overall the play was way slower and the defensive side of the ball was lacking, but there were a ton of big plays and the final 3 minutes were intense. My friend came in from Philly with a few of her teammates to watch and got me a ticket. I got to hang out with them and other teams back at the hotel - man, they put guy talk to shame when they are all together. Fun times.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on August 09, 2012, 12:20:06 PM
http://www.hlntv.com/article/2012/08/08/60-million-dollar-high-school-football-stadium-allen-texas?hpt=ts1&hpt=hp_t3

$60m stadium set for kick off at the end of the month... did I forget to mention it is a high school stadium?   :ye_gods:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Strazos on August 11, 2012, 05:16:33 PM
For fucking High School Football?  :uhrr:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on August 11, 2012, 06:35:42 PM
For fucking High School Football?  :uhrr:

Hell, I went to high school in Texas and my stadium held about 8,000 and was worth over $10M back in 1999. They just built and indoor facility for $4.5M back in 2011 to go along with the parking deck.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Fordel on August 11, 2012, 06:53:24 PM
It's Texas. Texas is crazy when it comes to football and cheer-leading.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Strazos on August 11, 2012, 08:03:54 PM
It's Texas. Texas is crazy when it comes to football and cheer-leading.

Again, for high school football? And if they're anything like the players at my high school, all that cash will be spent on a bunch of punks who will amount to not a whole lot after high school; i.e. - the types who, 10 years later, will bitch about paying $50 for reunion tickets (or $100 if they're bringing the baby mama).


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Chimpy on August 11, 2012, 08:19:33 PM
Again, it is Texas.

You seriously just do not understand how Texas is about high school football. Go watch Varsity Blues, that will give you a taste of the minimum level of insanity they focus towards friday nights.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: cmlancas on August 11, 2012, 08:55:35 PM
It's Texas. Texas is crazy when it comes to football and cheer-leading.

Again, for high school football? And if they're anything like the players at my high school, all that cash will be spent on a bunch of punks who will amount to not a whole lot after high school; i.e. - the types who, 10 years later, will bitch about paying $50 for reunion tickets (or $100 if they're bringing the baby mama).

I live someplace where folks spend lots of money on HS football programs that are extremely good and consistently produce college and professional stars (Plant, Armwood, Lakeland).

Thing is, yes, for HS football.  We're talking about full rides for college, easily worth $30,000.  And if you're good enough to make it in a draft straight from high school?  $$$

It's amazing how much it costs to live in an apartment zoned for those schools.  Parents will pay insane amounts of money to live in crappy apartments just so folks can have a shot at college educations at high-ranked high schools.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Teleku on August 11, 2012, 09:41:29 PM
I wonder how their Art and Music programs are doing.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on August 11, 2012, 10:39:49 PM
I wonder how their Art and Music programs are doing.

A football program and a quality education in those schools aren't really mutually exlusive.

For example, my high school also produced two Academy award winners, a nobel prize winning physicist, a pulitzer prize winning photographer, the founder of Teach for America, a Tony Award winner, and a Gemini astronaut.

EDIT: Also, the high school in question who built the stadium (Allen High School) has a marching band with 680 students. They've played in the Rose Bowl. It's one of the best music programs in the state.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Teleku on August 11, 2012, 11:05:50 PM
I understand, but overall this country has some serious priority issues.  $60 million towards the actual education of the students at the school (or even including all the neighboring schools) could do a hell of a lot of good.  While some schools like that may be able to do both, at my High school (and most across the country) the sports programs got huge amounts of money, while funding for general education, teacher salaries, and the arts were constantly slashed.  Most people in the country want to see their child throw the winning pass on a Friday night game, not grow up to be a Nobel winner.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on August 11, 2012, 11:22:16 PM
And yet, this school has the means to build a stadium and produce one the finest music programs in Texas.

Be fair, you asked a question and got an answer that surprised you. I would think that would make you happy, and might show you that not everyone has their priorities out of whack just because they like football.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Teleku on August 12, 2012, 12:00:08 AM
The question was completely rhetorical and you know it.  Kill the stadium and give the $60 million to other schools that aren't producing students who attend college at a 100% rate, since this one is obviously rich enough to handle its students.  Football and most sports in this this country are a massive waste of time and money that is literally going to kill us in global competitiveness.  They can have their $60 million dollar stadium when the entire team graduates to become engineers, and every school in Texas is pumping out 4.0 students at a 100% rate.  Until that time, its a sad waste of money.  You can play football successfully in a mud pit.  Great education actually requires money and effort.  This city most certainly has all of its priorities out of whack.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Fordel on August 12, 2012, 12:55:13 AM
Well yes, It's Texas. I thought we went over this already!  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Sjofn on August 12, 2012, 03:29:45 AM
The question was completely rhetorical and you know it.  Kill the stadium and give the $60 million to other schools that aren't producing students who attend college at a 100% rate, since this one is obviously rich enough to handle its students.  Football and most sports in this this country are a massive waste of time and money that is literally going to kill us in global competitiveness.  They can have their $60 million dollar stadium when the entire team graduates to become engineers, and every school in Texas is pumping out 4.0 students at a 100% rate.  Until that time, its a sad waste of money.  You can play football successfully in a mud pit.  Great education actually requires money and effort.  This city most certainly has all of its priorities out of whack.

Ahh, but how much extra money do they get from their insane football people? I know at my school (which was in NJ, and had non-insane football priorities) (which is to say, WE WERE TERRIBLE AT FOOTBALL), we were still glad for all the attention they'd manage to get, because as the marching band (you know, fine arts people), we would NOT EXIST AT ALL if it weren't for them. And we wanted them to have a decent field and stadium, because. Well. We marched in it, you know?


PS: Marching band is fun as hell (and good exercise) and totally different from regular ol' concert band (which is fun for entirely different reasons). I know a lot of people that only kept playing because they wanted to be in MARCHING band once they got to high school (our marching band was pretty good, see).


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on August 12, 2012, 07:46:55 AM
Thought Texas hated education?  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on August 12, 2012, 08:55:57 AM
The question was completely rhetorical and you know it.  Kill the stadium and give the $60 million to other schools that aren't producing students who attend college at a 100% rate, since this one is obviously rich enough to handle its students.  Football and most sports in this this country are a massive waste of time and money that is literally going to kill us in global competitiveness.  They can have their $60 million dollar stadium when the entire team graduates to become engineers, and every school in Texas is pumping out 4.0 students at a 100% rate.  Until that time, its a sad waste of money.  You can play football successfully in a mud pit.  Great education actually requires money and effort.  This city most certainly has all of its priorities out of whack.

I see, you've decided to go the other route. I have a problem with you already making up your mind, asking a snarky question, being shown that it's not the case, and then continuing on with whatever opinion you want EVEN THOUGH IT'S NOT THE CASE IN THIS SITUATION. Nobody learns anything that way.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Teleku on August 12, 2012, 10:37:47 AM
I god damn knew they'd have a decent marching band if they're throwing money at a stadium like that.  It was a snarky question, and I'll admit I messed up in writing it, as I meant to imply Texas as a whole, not just that school.  So apology's for that, but nothing has changed, and you didn't tell me anything I didn't already know.

My position has always been that since this country cant seem to get its shit together, inter school sports should either be banned, or have a requirement placed on them that you need something like at least a 3.8 GPA while taking a full array of AP courses in order to play.  If you don't have that, obviously you have other things you desperately need to be spending your time on.  Schools should by law be prohibited from spending money like that (donated or otherwise) on sports.  The glorification of sports over academic achievement in this country needs to end.

If they're desperate for it, the city can build its own stadium somewhere in the city that's not on school grounds, organize its own private team, and pay for the management and maintenance of it out of city funds.  Then challenge other cities who have done the same.  Just don't link it with the school at all.

And yes, I know this is all extreme and has no chance of happening in this country, but I think its probably the only way left to fix things at this point.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on August 12, 2012, 10:40:09 AM
 :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Teleku on August 12, 2012, 10:42:02 AM
 :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on August 12, 2012, 10:55:51 AM
You do realize that banning it wouldn't magically move money to schools right?


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on August 12, 2012, 12:04:33 PM
Of course not, but it does show where are American priorities are in terms of what we truly value. Fuck school and learning... we need more gladiator arenas.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: cmlancas on August 12, 2012, 12:46:29 PM
Of course not, but it does show where are American priorities are in terms of what we truly value. Fuck school and learning... we need more gladiator arenas.  :why_so_serious:

I don't think "fuck school and learning" is correct...whether it's Sputnik, NCLB, or that publication that came out in the 80s (forgive me, I forget the name and Google-fu--), education has had gobs of money thrown at it from time to time.

What I think it boils down to is boosters supporting something they enjoy.  The baseball complex I played at in high school had an air conditioned clubhouse full with washer and dryer. 

All because one dad wanted it for his kid.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on August 13, 2012, 09:50:26 PM
Interesting.  Apparently Hope Solo was conceived during a conjugal visit while her father was in prison (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2178817/I-conceived-jail-Hope-Solo-mother-pregnant-conjugal-visit-father.html).   :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on August 15, 2012, 10:12:41 PM
Yay!  The US finally beat Mexico in Mexico City.   (http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story/_/id/1134899/u.s.-beats-mexico-in-mexico-for-first-time?cc=5901)

Quote
The U.S. had been 0-23-1 against El Tri in 75 years of games at Mexico, including 0-19-1 in the thin air at altitude in Mexico City -- where they have been outscored 81-14.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on August 16, 2012, 12:10:02 PM
Wow.  Former Georgia coach Jim Donnan charged (http://ww2.ajcmobile.com/autojuice/?targetUrl=http://www.ajc.com/sports/uga/former-bulldogs-coach-donnan-1500620.html) in $80 million Ponzi Scheme. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on August 16, 2012, 12:29:51 PM
 :facepalm:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: cmlancas on August 16, 2012, 12:47:18 PM
:facepalm:

You and half my family.

The hits just keep coming.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on August 16, 2012, 01:56:01 PM
At this point, I fully expect to get woodshedded by Missouri just to ice the cake of how shitty this season could go.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: cmlancas on August 16, 2012, 02:04:10 PM
At this point, I fully expect to get woodshedded by Missouri just to ice the cake of how shitty this season could go.

Well, if you go 1-11 and beat UF, it's still a winning season.   :drill:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on August 16, 2012, 04:17:59 PM
At least you can say former UGa coach Jim Donnan. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on August 16, 2012, 04:32:04 PM
If Mark Richt was involved in a running a Ponzi scheme, I'd literally lose all faith in humanity.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on August 20, 2012, 01:33:32 PM
Augusta National has finally decided to crawl out of the dark ages (http://espn.go.com/golf/story/_/id/8284599/augusta-national-admits-condoleezza-rice-darla-moore-first-two-female-members). 

I'm surprised that a woman would want to associate with such sexist fucksticks, but to each their own, I suppose.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: cmlancas on August 20, 2012, 01:40:39 PM
I'm surprised that a woman would want to associate with such sexist fucksticks, but to each their own, I suppose.

It's the most beautiful golf course in the U.S.  Also, why not be the person to break down some barriers?

Seems like a win-win.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on August 20, 2012, 01:40:59 PM
I disagree that having an all-male club makes them fucksticks, but whatever.

Glad Condi was one of the ones that joined, she's a wonderful lady.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on August 20, 2012, 01:49:38 PM
Glad Condi was one of the ones that joined, she's a wonderful lady.

Might change your thinking when you realize she is a die-hard Browns fan and even went so far to do the modeling of the women's line of NFL jerseys. Now I am torn on her.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on August 20, 2012, 01:50:34 PM
It's the most beautiful golf course in the U.S. 

(http://golfpicture.com/pebble%20beach%207%20117.JPG)

 :grin:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Sjofn on August 20, 2012, 01:57:09 PM
I disagree that having an all-male club makes them fucksticks, but whatever.

Sorry, when your reasoning is "that person has a vagina, and thus is not allowed in our totally sweet clubhouse" it pretty much makes you a fuckstick if you're over the age of 10 or so.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: cmlancas on August 20, 2012, 02:00:51 PM
It's the most beautiful golf course in the U.S. 

(http://golfpicture.com/pebble%20beach%207%20117.JPG)

 :grin:

That's 17 at Pebble Beach, right?

I'm a southern boy at heart.  Damn Californians and their tri-tip steaks ><


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on August 20, 2012, 02:08:48 PM
I think that's 7 actually.

Then there's Cypress Point...

(http://www.sghgolfphotography.com/media/archive/catalog/item-38_1_large.jpg)

There are a bunch of courses down there, all with varying degrees of that.

The only time I wish I played golf is when I'm down there and see that stuff. I used to do a summer music program at a school down there when I was a kid, we'd cut across part of Spyglass to get to the lodge for snacks. VERY NAUGHTY apparently (the tresspassing part), though I never got caught. Or hit in the head.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on August 20, 2012, 02:46:41 PM
I disagree that having an all-male club makes them fucksticks, but whatever.

Sorry, when your reasoning is "that person has a vagina, and thus is not allowed in our totally sweet clubhouse" it pretty much makes you a fuckstick if you're over the age of 10 or so.

To you maybe. To others, not so much. Like minds will disagree on gender-specific clubs (golf or otherwise), but they exist on both sides of the coin.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on August 20, 2012, 04:09:32 PM
I disagree that having an all-male club makes them fucksticks, but whatever.

Sorry, when your reasoning is "that person has a vagina, and thus is not allowed in our totally sweet clubhouse" it pretty much makes you a fuckstick if you're over the age of 10 or so.

To you maybe. To others, not so much. Like minds will disagree on gender-specific clubs (golf or otherwise), but they exist on both sides of the coin.

They do (and I'm not always against all male or all female groups) but to argue that this bunch of douchebags deserves any benefit of the doubt is absurd.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on August 20, 2012, 04:22:22 PM
I don't argue benefit of the doubt. I think they run a nice golf course. Whether or not they want to keep out anybody from a private club is their business, and your right as an American citizen to think of them as complete fucksticks. I just don't see it that way.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on August 20, 2012, 04:28:39 PM
Whether or not they want to keep out anybody from a private club is their business

Actually, it's not if the people they want to keep out is based on something like gender or race.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on August 20, 2012, 04:39:14 PM
Whether or not they want to keep out anybody from a private club is their business

Actually, it's not if the people they want to keep out is based on something like gender or race.

Not true, but ok. It's been fought in the courts, but there's nothing definitive about it. At best it's a state by state thing.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on August 20, 2012, 05:36:58 PM
There's a difference sometimes between what is right in the courts and what is morally and ethically correct.  A bunch of rich old white guys excluding brown people and women based on the facts that they have pigment and vaginas (or both) is really fairly reprehensible and is very reminiscent of slavery era society.  But if you're for it then enjoy.  I won't watch the Masters because they are a bunch of assholes. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on August 20, 2012, 05:47:07 PM
It's still a nice course, and the #1 course in the United States. They don't care.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on August 20, 2012, 05:54:09 PM
They don't care?  Is that why they just admitted a black female?   :grin:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on August 20, 2012, 05:55:01 PM
I meant they don't care if you watch the Masters.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on August 20, 2012, 06:06:23 PM
Apparently they do or they wouldn't have let in a black woman.   :oh_i_see:

There's no way they would be doing this if there wasn't significant social and financial pressure on them to do so. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: cmlancas on August 21, 2012, 08:30:22 AM
Apparently they do or they wouldn't have let in a black woman.   :oh_i_see:

There's no way they would be doing this if there wasn't significant social and financial pressure on them to do so. 

I think it's both.  It is Augusta National and the Master's, so plenty of folks will watch.

But, nobody in his or her right mind wants to leave money on the table by imposing archaic rules like HE MAN WOMAN HATER'S CLUB...no gurlz aloud!


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on August 21, 2012, 10:59:16 AM
I think they saw an opportunity to let in two extremely conservative rich women, and let the haters from the Women's Libber movement choke on it.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on August 21, 2012, 12:10:37 PM
let the haters from the Women's Libber movement choke on it.

You're dying to get this flushed down the politics toilet bowl, aren't you?   :ye_gods:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on August 21, 2012, 12:12:01 PM
Of course, for a while it was about nothing but cycling and touching children.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on August 21, 2012, 12:46:39 PM
Speaking of cycling, the judge dismissed Lance Armstrong's case against the USADA.   :grin:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on August 21, 2012, 01:03:04 PM
I'm going to sound old here, but I think $315 is too much to pay for the latest Lebron shoes (http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8288491/nike-sell-newest-lebron-james-sneaker-300), even if they are the fancy edition.  Apparently the regulars sell for $175, which is just absurd. 

This must be what it felt like for my dad when I came home with my first pair of $100 Air Jordans.   :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on August 21, 2012, 01:10:41 PM
Over/under on people that get murdered for those shoes?


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on August 21, 2012, 01:17:17 PM
It may be the only way that people will get them. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on August 21, 2012, 03:16:28 PM
Of course, for a while it was about nothing but cycling and touching children.

If it helps, I'm pretty sure the owners of Augusta National both ride bicycles while doped and touch children in wholly inappropriate ways.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on August 22, 2012, 12:02:00 PM
Here you all go... something out of left field:

http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/8292542/stephen-domalewski-left-brain-injury-settles-metal-bat-suit

Quote
A New Jersey teenager left brain-damaged after being struck by a line drive while he was playing in a youth baseball game will receive $14.5 million to settle his lawsuit against the bat manufacturer, Little League Baseball and a sporting goods chain.

Yeah... people will sue anyone for just about anything.  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on August 22, 2012, 12:07:43 PM
I hate metal bats. They've already deadened them in college baseball because they were killing people. I don't think anything about them is good for the game.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: WayAbvPar on August 22, 2012, 12:24:29 PM
Except economics.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on August 22, 2012, 12:25:27 PM
Except economics.

They can make a safer version. It needs to trickle down. That's why they got sued and settled.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on August 22, 2012, 03:08:44 PM
Because wooden bats break, they're just not possible to use for youth leagues and stuff, far too expensive. There's a better option out there I'm sure, just waiting for someone to invent it.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on August 22, 2012, 03:23:58 PM
I just had a patient's mother pay for treatment in $1 bills......  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on August 22, 2012, 03:24:29 PM
Might want to disinfect those.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on August 22, 2012, 03:35:55 PM
How nice were her tits?


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on August 22, 2012, 03:40:02 PM
Ummm, yeah.  I'm sure there's plenty of ass sweat on those bills.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on August 22, 2012, 03:43:26 PM
Answer the question!  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on August 22, 2012, 05:24:12 PM
I wouldn't have picked that out as her profession, no.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on August 23, 2012, 10:11:16 PM
Sweet!  My dad just sent me a basketball that was signed by all the members of Kentucky's national title squad from last year, including Anthony Davis, Terrence Jones and Michael Kidd-Gilchrist.  That was unexpected.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on August 24, 2012, 08:42:33 AM
Sweet!  My dad just sent me a basketball that was signed by all the members of Kentucky's national title squad from last year, including Anthony Davis, Terrence Jones and Michael Kidd-Gilchrist.  That was unexpected.


Pics please! That's neat.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on August 24, 2012, 08:45:06 AM
I'll get one when I get home from work.  He also sent me a limited edition Louisville Slugger commemorative bat from the title, which isn't signed but is also cool.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on August 25, 2012, 12:54:57 PM
Here's the ball:

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8290/7858342256_e5bdc291f7_z.jpg)

And a couple of views of the bat:

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8445/7858342704_123b3a845a_z.jpg)

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7256/7858343238_b2f635408b_z.jpg)

They aren't the best photos, but apparently my iPhone hates me.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on August 25, 2012, 02:46:35 PM
The ball is really cool. Have you considered getting one of these? (http://www.amazon.com/Collectible-Deluxe-Acrylic-NBA-Basketball/dp/B00416T5WS/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1345923940&sr=8-5&keywords=basketball+display+case)


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on August 25, 2012, 02:48:24 PM
I figure I probably ought to.  I just got it the other day though and haven't really had time to think about it. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on August 27, 2012, 06:07:07 PM
Sweet Caroline cut by Penn State.... (http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8308423/penn-state-nittany-lions-cut-sweet-caroline-game-days)


Seems a might bit overkill to me.  But, then again the first thing I think of when I hear the song is getting into a shower with a 12 year old boy.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on August 27, 2012, 06:14:11 PM
...

(Recorded music is an abomination in college football anyway. You have a band, they're there for a reason.)


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on August 27, 2012, 06:16:30 PM
I absolutely agree.  I guess I thought that the band was playing it.  But then again I didn't read the article really closely.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on August 29, 2012, 04:45:58 PM
You know it's a bad time for US sports when ESPN is putting up a lot of Euroloeague soccer on the front page.   :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on August 29, 2012, 05:40:13 PM
That's why baseball should end this weekend for the regular season imo.

Everyone's played about 130 games, we could start the playoffs and it would make great ratings while we dealt with the crap week of college ball and the week before the NFL.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: naum on August 29, 2012, 05:50:12 PM
That's why baseball should end this weekend for the regular season imo.

Everyone's played about 130 games, we could start the playoffs and it would make great ratings while we dealt with the crap week of college ball and the week before the NFL.

This^^

Regular season should end in August. September-October (no baseball in November please) should be reserved for post-season. And the post-season should be expanded to best-of-9 series.

It would make baseball distinctive and take away NHL claim to most extensive playoff tournament, steal thunder from NFL/NCAAF season opening, grant more excitement to small/mid market teams, and fits more in with modern pitching staffs and organization rosters. Yes, the purists will grieve over expanded playoff field, but that nut has already been cracked -- and the current setup is a travesty -- not so much the new single elimination wildcard game, but the best-of-5 for divisional round is insufficient.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on August 29, 2012, 05:52:57 PM
Hey baseball owners, do you want to give up the income from 16 of your home games? No? Didn't think so.

EDIT: And as a fan I don't want less regular season games myself. As far as I'm concerned they could play all 12 months and I'd be happy.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on August 29, 2012, 06:04:00 PM
13,000 people supposedly showed up to watch the Indians play the A's yesterday in cleveland. That's pretty typical for teams that aren't northeastern powerhouses or aren't in the playoff talk at this point.

Besides, NFL owners seem to be able to make it work with about 500-600k fans a year that support a payroll of about $120M. They run 10 games with the preseason included.

The worst team in the MLB draws about 1.5M fans a season. Are you telling me they can't adjust ticket prices and amenities to support that same payroll? Think about the variable costs of just opening the stadium during a shitty season end. Do they actually even MAKE money on those last 16 games? Maybe about 30% do that are in the running. I'm guessing the rest barely break even.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on August 29, 2012, 06:10:50 PM
NFL ticket prices are shamefully high because of it. Stuff like $20 bleacher seats make it a lot more possible for a wider group of people to attend games. So no I don't think it would be a plus at all to adjust prices up and reduce the number of games. Even those 13,000 ticket games are going to be moneymakers for them, and you'll also end up asking season ticket holders to pay the same amount for 16 fewer games; that's a good way to get your season ticket holders to tell you to fuck right off.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on August 29, 2012, 06:45:48 PM
That 13k pretty much is just season ticket holders that didn't bother showing up.

Hell, I'm a season ticket holder in Atlanta, and I'd prefer not to go to regular season games in September. That's football season.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on August 29, 2012, 06:53:28 PM
Do stadium numbers even mean shit any more?  Isn't it all about advertising dollars?


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on August 29, 2012, 07:01:57 PM
Do stadium numbers even mean shit any more?  Isn't it all about advertising dollars?

In baseball, the entire payroll is driven by attendance, unless you are the Yankees. It's like that because there's no cap. In other sports, not as much.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on August 29, 2012, 07:02:23 PM
Do stadium numbers even mean shit any more?  Isn't it all about advertising dollars?

They absolutely do, at least for baseball. You can see it in the financial documents that were leaked for a few teams a couple years ago. A couple examples:

For a top-end example: 2009 Anaheim Angels of Los Angeles Anaheim Whatever: ~$100 million in ticket receipts, ~$15 million in concession sales. Meanwhile stadium operations cost them $16 million. (This is about half their revenues overall.)
For the team in probably the shittiest situation in baseball at the time: 2009 Florida Marlins: ~$21.5 million in ticket receipts, $2.5 million in concessions against $7 million in stadium operations.


So there's a wide range, but it is big, big money and they're pretty much all making at least some money this way. No way do they walk away from that.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on August 29, 2012, 09:28:25 PM
Interesting.  I'm shocked.   :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on August 29, 2012, 11:13:43 PM
LA's a shitty example though. Like NY, they very much have the population to be in the top 10 for not only one, but TWO franchises should they choose. Short of carpet bombing the stadiums, they are going to draw people no matter what. In fact, there has never been a time in the last decade where the NY and LA teams didn't at least have one franchise in the top 5. In 2006, all 4 teams were in the top 5 in attendance.

A better example of where attendance drives payroll would be Atlanta, Houston, Detroit, or Seattle.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on August 30, 2012, 06:32:14 AM
I think it would be fine if the had the same games and just started the season a little earlier.  Weather might be an issue in some locations, but hey, these guys make millions of dollars per year so should be able to suck it up and play.  Ending the season now would probably really boost attendance for another reason-  in most locations school has started and parents are going to be much less likely to drag the kids out of school for a game in the first month of school.  They would probably think differently if it was the playoffs though.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: naum on August 30, 2012, 12:20:24 PM
…Ending the season now would probably really boost attendance for another reason-  in most locations school has started and parents are going to be much less likely to drag the kids out of school for a game in the first month of school.  They would probably think differently if it was the playoffs though.

Americans love "playoffs".

In the old MLB divisional/league setup (pre wildcard), when you had to finish 1st to play in the postseason there was still some interest in where your team placed (i.e, as a Pirates fan, even if they didn't win the division, I still rooted in September to be a "spoiler" or finish ahead of Mets, Phillies, Cubs, etc.…). With a wildcard setup, most games in September are entirely meaningless now.

The same reason that ties/draws are an anathema -- if there is no winner/loser, it is unfulfilling -- but we'll watch just about anything where there is a "winner advance", "loser eliminated" contest -- even ESPN 8 lumberjack competitions to see who can cut down a tree the fastest. ;)


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on August 30, 2012, 01:08:22 PM
They could compress the season more if they played more doubleheaders (or really any... do they even do doubleheaders much anymore?).


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: cmlancas on August 31, 2012, 01:10:12 PM
They could compress the season more if they played more doubleheaders (or really any... do they even do doubleheaders much anymore?).

Doubleheaders are typically for makeup games.  Also, eight hours of baseball is supremely demanding of athletes, especially when it's in the middle of a four-game series.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on August 31, 2012, 01:41:44 PM
With a wildcard setup, most games in September are entirely meaningless now.

This is like the exact opposite of true. Far, far more games were meaningless in September under the old system.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on August 31, 2012, 02:02:04 PM
Hell, most Cubs' games later than June have been meaningless for 90% of my lifetime.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on August 31, 2012, 04:27:51 PM
It's interesting that Billy Gilliespie is doing the same shit at Texas Tech that got him fired at Kentucky (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/8321914/mutiny-texas-tech-coach-billy-gillispie-draws-complaints).  And now he's suddenly so sick he has to go the hospital for an ultrasound (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/basketball/ncaa/08/31/billy-gillispie-hospitalized.ap/index.html?eref=sihp).  Sounds ultra fishy, to me. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on August 31, 2012, 05:01:01 PM
And......let's talk about the hypocrisy of the NCAA for a bit.  UNC not hit with any sanctions regarding obvious academic fraud (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/michael_rosenberg/08/31/UNC-NCAA-academic-fraud/index.html?eref=sihp). 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on September 01, 2012, 01:31:39 AM
That is... unfortunate.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: cmlancas on September 03, 2012, 11:50:00 AM
And......let's talk about the hypocrisy of the NCAA for a bit.  UNC not hit with any sanctions regarding obvious academic fraud (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/michael_rosenberg/08/31/UNC-NCAA-academic-fraud/index.html?eref=sihp). 

That op-ed was very, very poorly written.  Shame on you, SI. 

Was there any reason as to why the NCAA didn't pass ruling?  Is at an academic thing versus an athletic thing?


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on September 03, 2012, 06:32:06 PM
It's essentially a blog post from SI.com.  What do you expect, the New York Times?  The subject matter is still appropriate and he was asking the right questions.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: cmlancas on September 04, 2012, 10:57:28 AM
It's essentially a blog post from SI.com.  What do you expect, the New York Times?  The subject matter is still appropriate and he was asking the right questions.

I'm constantly reminded that writing gets worse every year.  I keep pretending it's not the case when I teach.

I agree though, certainly the right questions.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on September 04, 2012, 11:16:25 AM
I think that a big part of the "writing getting worse every year" problem is that we have the internet.  People have the ability to write and put things on the internet basically for free, whereas in years gone by they would have to put things in print at huge expense.  Therefore the need for copy editors has basically died, thus leading to freelance guys putting up stuff unedited.  I would wager that 90% of the articles like this that get put up get nothing other than a cursory glance from an editor.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: cmlancas on September 04, 2012, 11:37:14 AM
I think that a big part of the "writing getting worse every year" problem is that we have the internet.  People have the ability to write and put things on the internet basically for free, whereas in years gone by they would have to put things in print at huge expense.  Therefore the need for copy editors has basically died, thus leading to freelance guys putting up stuff unedited.  I would wager that 90% of the articles like this that get put up get nothing other than a cursory glance from an editor.

I'm not trying to derail into hurr durr copy editing, but how much of overall writing style gets critiqued from copy editors?

My big qualm with folks on these sites is coupling vitriol with news that elicits the same vitriol...if the article is about a guy locking his daughter in the basement for years, it's obviously disgusting and horrendous.  No need to beat me over the head with it


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on September 04, 2012, 11:55:15 AM
Well in this case, something despicable occurred and it should have been looked at more closely.  The situation probably deserves a little additional editorial vitriol. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on September 04, 2012, 05:01:51 PM
I think that a big part of the "writing getting worse every year" problem is that we have the internet.  People have the ability to write and put things on the internet basically for free, whereas in years gone by they would have to put things in print at huge expense. 

See, I view that as a GOOD THING.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on September 04, 2012, 05:13:00 PM
I agree with you, Haemish.  Hence why I posted the barely-above-blog-level article. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Korachia on September 04, 2012, 06:43:31 PM
So apparently Tyler Hamilton (former bike rider and doper) is launching his new book soon. It includes grave accusations against pretty much everybody, but especially against his former chef, Bjarne Riis, and manager of the current Saxobank/Tinkoff (Contador rides for him). Riis apparently put Hamilton into contact with Fuentes (infamous for being the key stone in a doping network - uncovered in the Operación Puerto debacle), and encouraged him to use blood doping, as it was untraceable if done right. All the time Riis have denied to have ever known Fuentes - an unlikely event since their paths would most likely have crossed at least once, as they often attended the same races. Fuentes as a doctor for several teams, and Riis as bike rider and later on manager of his own team. Quite damming!

And so the former doping rider turns into a culture-carrier of the sick win-it-all-no-matter-what culture and turn younglings into dopers - a circle most likely to continue, if nothing is done. Disgusting.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: cmlancas on September 05, 2012, 11:14:28 AM
I think that a big part of the "writing getting worse every year" problem is that we have the internet.  People have the ability to write and put things on the internet basically for free, whereas in years gone by they would have to put things in print at huge expense. 

See, I view that as a GOOD THING.

Let's not confuse the ability of folks to post things on the internet with the decline of writing quality.

I think the former is awesome and the latter a shame.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on September 12, 2012, 08:14:44 PM
Wow.  UNC can't buy a break (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/8371103/tyler-hansbrough-mother-resigns-unc-fundraiser).  Now Tyler Hansbrough's mom was caught using university money to fly around the country and bang her boyfriend. 

Quote
Tami Hansbrough, the mother of former North Carolina basketball All-America Tyler Hansbrough, resigned her position as a school fundraiser Wednesday as the school continued to study trips she took with Matt Kupec, UNC's vice chancellor for university advancement.

This makes me all warm and fuzzy inside......  :heart:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on September 17, 2012, 04:28:40 PM
And now UNC's chancellor, Holden Thorp, has resigned (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/ncaaf/acc/story/2012/09/17/unc-chancellor-holden-thorp-to-step-down-amid-scandal/57794564/1) amidst all the brewing shitstorm around the university. 

Apparently there are still two ongoing investigations into the academic scandal that has allowed UNC to field an awesome basketball squad and a very reasonable football team over the past 15 years.  Chancellors don't just resign for shits and giggles.  There may be more meat to this than the NCAA would like to admit.  Mark Emmert needs to get his head out of his ass. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on September 20, 2012, 09:12:25 AM
And you thought you had met the lowest common denominator of redneck.....

(http://ksr.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/60720_10151051338515825_751159929_n-500x441.jpg)

That's actually a real glass eye that the guy had made up. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on September 20, 2012, 09:33:32 AM
Yeah, and it's for Kentucky of all things.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on September 20, 2012, 09:34:28 AM
I don't think you'd seen anything like this except for an SEC school. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: cmlancas on September 21, 2012, 07:38:47 AM
I don't think you'd seen anything like this except for an SEC school. 

Glass eyes?  Yep.   :drill:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on September 27, 2012, 03:07:27 PM
No need now: http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/09/27/14126193-university-of-kentucky-restricts-alcohol-at-tailgate-parties-in-response-to-post-game-fights

Quote
"...Capilouto on Thursday announced the alcohol ban from non-reserved tailgate spots in response to fights after UK lost to Western Kentucky University on Sept. 15. Also banned: DJs and bands."

I swear I saw this movie once before... I think it had Kevin Bacon and dancing in it.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on September 27, 2012, 04:19:02 PM
I've never been to Kentucky, but I'm assuming by "non-reserved" tailgaters, they mean the gas-station alumni who never actually took a class, but love to park on campus for football games and start shit?

Because we moved those people away from North Campus on UGA soil a long time ago too. This isn't that uncommon to enforce dry areas. People have taken things too far lately.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on September 27, 2012, 04:25:33 PM
I've never been to Kentucky, but I'm assuming by "non-reserved" tailgaters, they mean the gas-station alumni who never actually took a class, but love to park on campus for football games and start shit?

Because we moved those people away from North Campus on UGA soil a long time ago too. This isn't that uncommon to enforce dry areas. People have taken things too far lately.

For what it is worth, and slightly off topic, I absolutely love Athens. Almost went to UGA for grad school... stingy bastards didn't match LSU's offer.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on September 27, 2012, 04:26:20 PM
Quote
Also banned: DJs and bands.

wat


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on September 27, 2012, 05:22:21 PM
I've never been to Kentucky, but I'm assuming by "non-reserved" tailgaters, they mean the gas-station alumni who never actually took a class, but love to park on campus for football games and start shit?


Actually they are referring to the frat boys.  There is a video that's been passed around Kentucky of some frat dudes kicking the shit out of some poor guy and that's what started all this.   I'll see if I can track it down.  It pretty much shows Kentucky in all its glory.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on September 27, 2012, 06:12:33 PM
I've never been to Kentucky, but I'm assuming by "non-reserved" tailgaters, they mean the gas-station alumni who never actually took a class, but love to park on campus for football games and start shit?


Actually they are referring to the frat boys.  There is a video that's been passed around Kentucky of some frat dudes kicking the shit out of some poor guy and that's what started all this.   I'll see if I can track it down.  It pretty much shows Kentucky in all its glory.

Hmmm, well then they need to fucking relax. We have our fraternity row like 100 yards from campus and never have any problems.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on September 27, 2012, 06:20:04 PM
I'm guessing that you have BYOB/3rd party bartender/cans-only etc. type rules then.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on September 27, 2012, 07:34:31 PM
I'm guessing that you have BYOB/3rd party bartender/cans-only etc. type rules then.

Pretty much.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on September 27, 2012, 09:39:12 PM
I've never been to Kentucky, but I'm assuming by "non-reserved" tailgaters, they mean the gas-station alumni who never actually took a class, but love to park on campus for football games and start shit?


Actually they are referring to the frat boys.  There is a video that's been passed around Kentucky of some frat dudes kicking the shit out of some poor guy and that's what started all this.   I'll see if I can track it down.  It pretty much shows Kentucky in all its glory.

Hmmm, well then they need to fucking relax. We have our fraternity row like 100 yards from campus and never have any problems.

Yeah, well, new president feels the need to crack down.  Plus the video is pretty much viral in KY. 

And I don't buy the "no problems" thing.  It's fraternities with booze and a football game.  There are fights. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on September 27, 2012, 10:48:54 PM
No, I'm serious. They moved several of the fraternities to patrolled lots in 2009. They built them new houses and made them University property. The UGA cops are in the area after every game, and we hire security for every party. The parking for the entire section is strictly enforced by both University officials and the police. Everyone has to have a pass, or you can't even drive there.

Things are really well controlled at our houses. We don't want a negative image at all given the shitstorms from early 2000 when ATO was kicked off campus for killing a guy, and several others lost charters for hazing/drugs.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on September 28, 2012, 09:52:55 AM
(http://ksr.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/car-3-500x636.jpg)

(http://ksr.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/car-4-500x375.jpg)



 :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on September 28, 2012, 11:53:32 AM
Today is Chipper Jones appreciation night at the Ted. I will be there amongst a standing room only crowd. Who doesn't love the Braves most loveable redneck?

Other than Mets fans.

(http://www.chipperjones.com/pics/chip_news1.jpg)


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: WayAbvPar on September 28, 2012, 12:29:53 PM
/raises hand


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on September 28, 2012, 12:37:56 PM
Look at that smile! LOVE HIM!  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: cmlancas on September 28, 2012, 01:19:24 PM
/raises hand

/smacks you with said hand.

Chipper is loveable.  HIS NAME IS CHIPPER FOR CHRIST'S SAKE.

I might live in Tampa, and pull for the Rays now, but you never forget your first love.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3WtSKEMUio&sns=em

 :heart:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Trippy on September 28, 2012, 01:22:13 PM
You smacked the wrong hand.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on September 28, 2012, 01:47:04 PM
/raises hand

/also raises hand


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on September 28, 2012, 01:52:52 PM
Chipper blows monkeys.   :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on September 28, 2012, 01:54:39 PM
I just don't really like GRR SERIOUS NO FUN guys like him that much. (Except Will Clark.)


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on September 28, 2012, 01:55:04 PM
Yeah, I liked Will Clark too. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Rasix on September 28, 2012, 01:57:06 PM
How could you hate a swing that pretty?


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on September 28, 2012, 02:20:08 PM
Chip's a first ballot HoFer, so hata's gonna hate. I'll be there when he gets his number retired next to Smoltzy.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on September 28, 2012, 03:08:45 PM
Jones is clearly juicing.   :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on September 28, 2012, 03:30:33 PM
Jones is clearly juicing.   :oh_i_see:

Nope.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: WayAbvPar on September 28, 2012, 04:04:04 PM

o/ \o


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on September 28, 2012, 07:49:03 PM
Jones is clearly juicing.   :oh_i_see:

Nope.

You've already proven you aren't a reliable witness.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Rasix on September 28, 2012, 08:39:13 PM
Chip's a first ballot HoFer, so hata's gonna hate. I'll be there when he gets his number retired next to Smoltzy.

I was talking about Will Clark.  :awesome_for_real:

I used to hate Chipper, but for the life of me, I can't remember why.  Don't anymore.  He's had a hell of a career.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on September 28, 2012, 08:59:36 PM
He really has had a remarkable career, but that's not a reason to let go of your hatred. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on October 02, 2012, 10:28:51 AM
This is cool as hell (http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_c2#/video/us/2012/10/02/mxp-bouquet-football-toss.hln).  I can't believe it works.  It wouldn't work in the NFL or college, I don't think. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on October 02, 2012, 10:30:59 AM
This is cool as hell (http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_c2#/video/us/2012/10/02/mxp-bouquet-football-toss.hln).  I can't believe it works.  It wouldn't work in the NFL or college, I don't think. 

It might work in college. LSU pulled off the behind the back bounce pass.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Abagadro on October 08, 2012, 11:59:47 PM
I'm watching the World Cup of Darts.  I think I need help.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on October 09, 2012, 07:28:22 AM
That actually sounds pretty damned awesome.  I love darts. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on October 09, 2012, 08:14:47 AM
Is it mandatory to be drunk to play at the World Cup of Darts?


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Abagadro on October 10, 2012, 12:22:46 AM
It was actually really intense. It went to a sudden death doubles game and each of the four players had a chance to win it and fucked it up. On the second run-through the current world champ (who looks exactly like you would think: a pasty 300 lb Englishman), nailed the double to take it down.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on October 15, 2012, 01:41:42 PM
Wow.  Watch this idiot basketball player from Murray State hit a couple of people with his car (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=cVENh5OwMS4).

Apparently he's been suspended from the team.  I don't see how someone could do this and ever play again. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on October 15, 2012, 05:28:53 PM
Basketball? Motherfucker should be lucky to breathe real air again. What the fuck was that? Is there more context to be had?


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on October 15, 2012, 05:33:43 PM
It looks as though he pushed a cart into some peoples' car, who then proceeded to (it being Kentucky) make a few choice racial slurs in said player's direction. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on October 16, 2012, 01:18:32 PM
Interesting.  A bottle of "McJordan" barbecue sauce from McDonald's sold for $10,000 on Ebay (http://espn.go.com/chicago/nba/story/_/id/8511732/gallon-1992-michael-jordan-barbecue-sauce-sells-10000-ebay).  I'm baffled at this.  I mean, it's not like something you could put on a shelf and show off.  It's just a bottle of shit from McDonald's.  There should be a stupid tax on this transaction.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on October 23, 2012, 05:48:30 PM
The Atlantic has a really super article about the enforcement of NCAA rules (http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2012/10/the-ncaa-needs-to-let-someone-else-enforce-its-rules/264012/).  Their take is that the NCAA should hire an outside agency to police their rules.  I say, while that may be a good idea, the first thing that they need to do is redefine their mission.  They'll never be able to stem the tide of "impermissible benefits".  Sneaky people are going to figure out new ways to cheat.  



Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on October 25, 2012, 07:14:53 PM
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8552111/tyrann-mathieu-former-lsu-tigers-cornerback-arrested-drug-charges

I just have to laugh. Since they no longer play for LSU, I put it here... but still. How you going to go through rehab, make the effort to remain at LSU to somehow play in the future, then get busted - again?


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on October 25, 2012, 07:29:48 PM
That kid is a serious fuckup.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on October 25, 2012, 08:43:55 PM
Apparently these guys simply can't stop smoking weed.

Also, hanging around with Jordan Jefferson? COME ON MAN.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on October 25, 2012, 09:07:56 PM
He'll still get drafted. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on October 25, 2012, 09:18:56 PM
He'll still get drafted. 

Maybe as a late rounder guy. I doubt any team is going to blow even a 3rd rounder on a dude that can't get his shit together when he's not on the clock, especially since he's undersized and not a pass rusher.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on October 26, 2012, 09:48:40 AM
True, but some team will draft him and give him a contract. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on October 26, 2012, 12:28:54 PM
He'll still get drafted. 

Maybe as a late rounder guy. I doubt any team is going to blow even a 3rd rounder on a dude that can't get his shit together when he's not on the clock, especially since he's undersized and not a pass rusher.

I am sure the Lions will look at him...   :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on October 26, 2012, 01:36:17 PM
They have to get their weed from somewhere.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: cmlancas on November 08, 2012, 11:11:24 AM
He'll still get drafted. 

Maybe as a late rounder guy. I doubt any team is going to blow even a 3rd rounder on a dude that can't get his shit together when he's not on the clock, especially since he's undersized and not a pass rusher.

I am sure the Lions will look at Bucs defense will smoke a bowl with him...   :why_so_serious:

FIFY


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on November 08, 2012, 01:03:51 PM
He'll still get drafted. 

Maybe as a late rounder guy. I doubt any team is going to blow even a 3rd rounder on a dude that can't get his shit together when he's not on the clock, especially since he's undersized and not a pass rusher.

Someone spent a 3rd rounder on a punter this year. (A really awesome punter, from the greatest school in the country, with a great name, but still a punter.)


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on November 09, 2012, 10:05:49 AM
Feds drop investigation against Bernie Fine (http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2012/11/09/feds-drop-sex-abuse-case-against-syracuses-fine/1694237/)

These guys get murdered in the media when they get charged, but don't get nearly enough pub when they are cleared. So, I'll post this here. As a result of false charges, this man lost his job, and had his reputation called into question. I would like to see the people who leveled these claims get sued. After all, the accuser is already in prison for molestation.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on November 09, 2012, 11:11:50 AM
It's a bit of a travesty, really.  I would think that Fine could sue Syracuse University.  There's really no reason to sue the dirtbags that leveled the accusations.  I'm sure they don't have any money.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on November 20, 2012, 09:42:33 PM
This is just bonkers.  Some D3 basketball player for Grinnell  (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/8658462/jack-taylor-grinnell-drops-138-points-collegiate-scoring-record)scored 138 points in a single game. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on November 20, 2012, 09:44:04 PM
Faith Baptist really doesn't play much D, do they?  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on November 20, 2012, 10:18:08 PM
That's 4 points per minute, which with the shot clock is crazy.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on December 13, 2012, 07:56:20 AM
It sounds as if the 7 Catholic schools in the Big East are going to bolt (http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/8742607/seven-catholic-schools-leaning-leaving-big-east-sources-say), which basically means the conference will fold whether they vote for dissolution or not.  Once you have the big names like St. Johns, Seton Hall, Providence, Georgetown and DePaul leaving that will decimate the conference.  This won't affect the football landscape much, I don't think, as Connecticut is probably the only remaining Big East school that has any bit of attractiveness to the football power conferences.  I could actually see UConn in the Big Ten. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on December 13, 2012, 08:31:49 AM
I can understand why the basketball schools got pissed. They Big East is trying to still pretend it's a football conference instead of actually just letting that go and focusing on the one thing that's a revenue generator left.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on December 13, 2012, 08:47:31 PM
The Big East was doomed to fail when half of its big name schools were basketball only. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on December 14, 2012, 07:56:07 AM
Sounds like they are planning a Catholic conference, bringing in such schools as Xavier, Dayton, St. Mary's, etc.  Should be a great basketball conference, and there's nothing wrong with that at all.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: cmlancas on December 14, 2012, 08:00:37 AM
Bigger dumpsterfire disappointment:  L.A. Lakers or Big East conference?

 :drillf:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on December 14, 2012, 08:51:25 AM
Bigger dumpsterfire disappointment:  L.A. Lakers or Big East conference?

 :drillf:

Hah, it's still the Lakers, everyone KNEW the Big East was bound to implode when they lost the AQ and it went to a playoff.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on December 15, 2012, 02:27:34 PM
And there's a fair chance that the Lakers will rebound.  That was never going to happen with the Big East. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on December 18, 2012, 10:37:45 PM
WE'RE #1

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8737332/how-giants-niners-even-warriors-made-bay-area-our-sports-city-year

 :hello_kitty_2:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on December 19, 2012, 06:43:13 PM
So what's the deal with the hockey strike? Is that getting resolved or are they just going to fold up the league?


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: cmlancas on December 20, 2012, 07:29:07 AM
So what's the deal with the hockey strike? Is that getting resolved or are they just going to fold up the league?

TL;DR:  Owners want 50/50 instead of 57/43 or whatever it is now.  Players said okay, but we're not taking pay cuts or salary rollbacks (a.k.a. I make 1m, now I make 700k for the rest of my contract) because HI YOU SIGNED THIS AGREEMENT.

Owners said fuck you.  Players said yes, yes fuck you too.  No season.  I'd be surprised if we saw anything in 2013 to be honest.

Look for KHL on TV in the US by 2014.   :awesome_for_real:

(P.S., I am a die-hard hockey fan who wanted to buy season tickets this year for the first time.  Fucking owners.)


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on December 20, 2012, 07:51:54 AM
http://www.nj.com/rangers/index.ssf/2012/12/nhl_lockout_update_bill_daly_s.html

*shrug*


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on December 20, 2012, 08:30:34 AM
(P.S., I am a die-hard hockey fan who wanted to buy season tickets this year for the first time.  Fucking owners.)

Ok, were the teams making money? It seems to me the product had suffered a ton lately with the move off ESPN to the shit networks. If it's in a revenue crunch, I can see why the owners can't afford to keep player salaries where they are, signed or not.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: cmlancas on December 20, 2012, 09:25:54 AM
(P.S., I am a die-hard hockey fan who wanted to buy season tickets this year for the first time.  Fucking owners.)

Ok, were the teams making money? It seems to me the product had suffered a ton lately with the move off ESPN to the shit networks. If it's in a revenue crunch, I can see why the owners can't afford to keep player salaries where they are, signed or not.

Sortof.  While profit-sharing was in place, traditionally successful teams were doing great:  NJ, DET, SJ, MTL, BOS, etc.  Smaller-market teams were struggling:  PHX, ATL (moved), and even MIN were struggling.  It's akin to the NBA where the league probably needed to contract two teams.  This left middle-market teams such as FLA, TB, and CAR in the lurch.

It's my understanding that owners aren't crazy about some teams making a hell of a lot more money than others when they all play in the same league (teams like PHX barely broke even, iirc).  So, they want more of a chunk of the profit sharing so they can also turn a profit instead of scraping by.

The big sticking point so far has been the salary rollback thing.  They would've been in agreement if the owners would've caved to it, but they didn't.  Shit, they would've saved the winter classic.  But, owners want to make money now, not in three to five years as expensive contracts are renegotiated.

(My primary source other than the web is Chris Dingman on 98.7 FM in TB.  He is very involved with hockey still and has an ear to the ground in the union talks, moreso than others because he was teammates with some of the players still on the squad.)



Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on December 20, 2012, 10:56:03 AM
The NHL lost me after that first fucking lockout/lost season. I just have never been able to be a steady fan after that. I'm sure I'm not the only one. Losing the ESPN contract because they expected big dollars coming off a lost season compounded the problems. Now they lock themselves out again? Fuck the NHL. These bastards are too greedy to live. By the time they get shit worked out, the goddamn MLS may have a bigger market share in the US than hockey.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on December 20, 2012, 11:00:20 AM
Honestly, from an outsider point of view, I don't really buy into the players making huge money in the NHL. In the NFL, when the owners were talking about the high costs of salaries, we all rolled our eyes. It's the biggest market sport in the USA. We knew the owners were greedy sacks of shit who wanted to squeeze more out.

In this case, I don't see it. They took my team away here in Atlanta because it couldn't make money. They took it off ESPN so I couldn't watch it. The players imo have wildly overestimated their worth in this sports market. I also think revenue sharing would be a good idea if the NHL wised up and contracted their league. There's no reason to have more than 24 teams right now. 4 teams a division, 12 in each conference.

I'd get rid of the Islanders because you don't need two teams in NY, and they suck in attendance, Florida because Florida doesn't need two teams and they suck in attendance, Carolina because that's ridiculous to have hockey in that state, Phoenix for the same reason, Columbus for the same reason, and Nashville because their talent could be used in a better city.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on December 20, 2012, 01:08:15 PM
So what's the deal with the hockey strike? Is that getting resolved or are they just going to fold up the league?

It's a lockout, not a strike. Characterizing hockey's issues as anything but a decades-long string of incompetent and occasionally malicious decisions by ownership would be incorrect.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on December 20, 2012, 01:09:41 PM
So what's the deal with the hockey strike? Is that getting resolved or are they just going to fold up the league?

It's a lockout, not a strike. Characterizing hockey's issues as anything but a decades-long string of incompetent and occasionally malicious decisions by ownership would be incorrect.

This. Some of the big dollar players actually took a pay cut AND agreed to having a limit on the amount of salary per year that a player could get no matter how rich the team was. It still wasn't enough for the owners, who are apparently mostly short-sighted dickbags.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on December 20, 2012, 01:10:01 PM
Ok give me some history then. What are the ownership decisions that have led us here. What are the examples? I have absolutely no idea what's going on, but I do know hockey's market share is smaller today.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on December 20, 2012, 01:14:23 PM
Before the 2003 lockout, there was no salary cap and lots of haves and have nots. The NY Rangers were the poster children for trying to buy titles, paying idiotic salaries and generally grabbing up all the big-name players even though they never made the playoffs. The NHL expanded into markets it never should have (Florida, Arizona, the South) and as a result about half the teams were break even or losing money, the other half were making good money and a lot of the traditions like teams in Canada were getting shit on to move teams to places like Phoenix. After the 2003 lockout ended a season, the owners agreed to a salary cap, a cap on top player salaries as well as teams could only sign so many players to big dollar contracts. As a result of the lockout, they lost the ESPN deal when they asked for too much money and got picked up by VS instead. I don't think viewership has ever recovered even with the change to NBC Sports Network. Now, the owners want the players to give up MORE money, drop their current already-negotiated salaries on contracts already signed and get... not much in return, AFAIK.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on December 20, 2012, 01:47:57 PM
The bottom line is these people are apparently incapable of running their franchises in a competent manner, despite record revenues for the sport.

NHL salary cap rules mandate a team's payroll be between 54.3 million and 70.2 million in 2012-2013, if they actually had a season. In 2011-2012, the league overall had 3.2 billion dollars in revenue. If you can't make those two numbers work together, you should not be running a business.

They need to either accept that they have to cut loose failing franchises or institute real revenue sharing. Other things that would help is lower revenue teams not being retarded and sitting right at the salary cap if they can't afford it. Even the lowest revenue teams would be functional at the salary floor instead.

In some sense you can pin a lot of it on the Leafs, who refuse any increase in sharing of their massive revenues and also manage to fail to put a decent product on the ice at the same time. They don't even hit the cap themselves, which is pretty funny. If the owners want to lock someone out they should consider the Leafs ownership.

This is a pretty good summary: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/globe-on-hockey/why-nhl-teams-cry-poor-despite-the-leagues-record-growth/article4429817/


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on December 20, 2012, 02:09:22 PM
The article says something very simple to me. If the bottom 10 teams can't make money, cut the bottom 10 teams from the league. Problem solved.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Fordel on December 20, 2012, 02:38:32 PM
Gary Bettman is a sadnessmancer, that's what is happening with hockey.


It's not about business, at all. It's about the owners going "we win, you lose, fuck you!". That's it, it's really that simple.


-edit- Ing is also spot on, the Leafs ownership is hell bent on keeping their insane monopoly share of the hockey monies. You think Southern Ontario couldn't support another NHL team? Fuck you could put a second NHL team in Toronto itself. There is nooooo waaaaay the Leafs are going to let that happen though. Not when they are bringing in like a jillion dollars from the god damn maple fucking leafs.




Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: naum on December 20, 2012, 02:44:26 PM
The article says something very simple to me. If the bottom 10 teams can't make money, cut the bottom 10 teams from the league. Problem solved.

But that not a very good deal for the players -- it would mean 1/3 less roster spots, 1/3 less #1 line, etc.…

Some of the bottom market teams have already been shaken out -- Atlanta moving to Winnipeg.  

But the NHL wasn't shortsighted to move into the Sun Belt -- it just that it opted for half-ass star soaked strategy as opposed to total penetration. Problem is, there are lots of rabid hockey fans in California, Florida, Arizona, etc.… and winning team often translates to full arenas (Phoenix outdraws poor performing Northern clubs when they are in a playoff push) but the marketing never has deep penetration (and losing ESPN was a big blow to that too). I remember a time, growing up in Pittsburgh, when hockey was thought of in the same vein, now it a bigger fan draw than all other sports (sans football) and greater than most team's NBA fan base in most cities. A lot due to Mario Lemieux and Stanley Cup wins, but there was a concerted push to get kids playing hockey, even if it was on a basketball court in tennis shoes shooting an orange plastic ball. Did not see that support in Phoenix when the Coyotes came to town, especially when there used to be a roller hockey rink on just about every block of the metro area in the 90s - 2000s. Now most of those facilities have been shuttered (drive by 2 on my way to work still) or ditched hockey for indoor soccer / lacrosse.

But if the NHL retreats to a limited regional setup it once was, that might invoke a death spiral sucking in more U.S. cities (and smaller Canadian cities).


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on December 20, 2012, 02:49:15 PM
The solution to me is to run the NHL like one business instead of 24. Go whole hog on revenue sharing and it solves basically all their problems as a group.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on December 20, 2012, 03:35:32 PM
The NHL has two major issues for me as a casual fan.

1 - Its regular season competes directly with the NFL and NBA until February. This is actually why NBA teams have focused entirely on the playoffs for their TV money, because they know the majority of their fans don't give a shit until football is over.

2 - It's a shitty sport to watch on TV. It's amazing in person, but that again runs into the competition problem. People only have a finite budget for tickets, and if you are going on at the exact same time as football, you can't draw as many fans due to income restraints.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Fordel on December 20, 2012, 03:57:11 PM
I have never understood how it's a shitty sport to watch on TV.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on December 20, 2012, 03:59:32 PM
I have never understood how it's a shitty sport to watch on TV.

Narrow focus of the camera work.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: WayAbvPar on December 20, 2012, 04:12:00 PM
I have never understood how it's a shitty sport to watch on TV.

It is really hard to follow unless you are familiar with the game. Bonus points for attending games in person, which really helps you learn what to watch for on TV. I just tell everyone to pay attention to where everyone on the ice is looking- the puck will always be there.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Fordel on December 20, 2012, 05:12:25 PM
First random Leafs vid I found on youtube. Which part of this is hard to follow? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCpYcIYvMaQ


I sincerely do not understand what is hard to follow here.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: cmlancas on December 20, 2012, 06:09:13 PM
2 - It's a shitty sport to watch on TV. It's amazing in person, but that again runs into the competition problem. People only have a finite budget for tickets, and if you are going on at the exact same time as football, you can't draw as many fans due to income restraints.

I love you but I don't think it's shitty to watch on TV at all.  Saying you can't follow it is just like not understanding how a reverse or play action works in football, imo. 

I also think it's the #1 live event to watch in my book, but I'd sure as hell watch the Bolts over baseball, tennis, golf, or basketball on TV.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on December 20, 2012, 07:07:14 PM
I love you but I don't think it's shitty to watch on TV at all.  Saying you can't follow it is just like not understanding how a reverse or play action works in football, imo. 

I also think it's the #1 live event to watch in my book, but I'd sure as hell watch the Bolts over baseball, tennis, golf, or basketball on TV.

I'm not saying I can't follow it, or didn't watch it. I had a hockey package in college so I could keep track of the Stars. I watched it in high school and had tickets to the games. I still have a puck from back before they put up nets on the glass.

It doesn't translate to TV well at all. The action is too fast and the camera angles are shitty. You can watch it just fine if you understand the game well, but the barrier to entry is there.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on December 21, 2012, 09:18:21 AM
I'm not saying I can't follow it, or didn't watch it. I had a hockey package in college so I could keep track of the Stars.

Oh god.  You're one of those people.   :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ceryse on December 21, 2012, 08:35:07 PM
The lockout.. ugh. I could probably write a decently sized book on why there is a lockout and just poorly both sides have managed it, especially from a PR stand point. You know its bad when even in Canada full-on apathy has kicked in over hockey. Both sides are to blame for it (owners more-so in the beginning, now its fairly even in the blame-game). The basic points of contention; splitting the pie that is HRR (hockey related revenue) between owners and players, make-whole provisions (owners paying out money so as to prevent the players from taking a massive roll-back in salaries due to the lowering of their piece of the HRR pie from 57% to 50%), revenue-sharing between teams, cap on contract lengths (players have begun to cave on this one) and CBA length (players will cave on this one if they grasp why the league is pushing for 10 years with an opt out after 8).

From most minor to most important, in some more detail;

That's the short of it. I could easily do 5-10 pages on each item and go into the nitty-gritty details, including breakdowns and charts comparing the old CBA (which reads like shit, but decent enough bathroom reading material...) and the negotiations for the new one.

But the tldr version of the lockout? None of the negotiating matters until around January 5-10th where you'll either see a deal put together and a 44-48 game season or see the entire season go down the drain. If the season is lost watch for the players to shoot themselves in the foot via decertification of the union. Also, that right now, in Canada, the owners barely edge out the players in terms of fan support, mainly because of how bad the players and Fehr have been at managing the PR aspect of the lockout and how the owners have gone from even worse to much better in the last month of PR management. Finally, there is more discord between players than there is owners. In the end, unless this thing goes before the courts (in which case.. you will see the NHL die), the owners will win more than they lose.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on December 21, 2012, 09:49:32 PM
I don't see much downside to a decert.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Trippy on January 11, 2013, 04:52:05 PM
Peru vs. Uruguay U-20 double save:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzZx7kdIB2k

Story:

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/soccer-dirty-tackle/peru-u-20-keeper-makes-tremendous-goal-line-041602125--sow.html


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on January 11, 2013, 05:49:34 PM
And of course, the forward goes down like a whiny bitch when he gets owned twice.

As a goalkeeper, this video makes me happy!


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Trippy on January 11, 2013, 05:51:13 PM
He did get kicked in the shin, and it was as good a time as any to work on his acting skills.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on January 11, 2013, 07:20:51 PM
That's fucking amazing.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Megrim on January 16, 2013, 06:02:55 AM
If one were to be looking to start playing American Football here in kangarooland, can you guy recommend any reading or info one should look at to better understand the game? I'm thinking not only the basic rules, but also positions, specific plays, what's expected of different types of players, etc...


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Margalis on January 16, 2013, 06:30:03 AM
Man...American Football is ridiculously complicated. There are like...a billion rules.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Shannow on January 16, 2013, 08:26:41 AM
Do we have enough interest to start a 'soccer' thread? Premier League hipsters, Ronaldo vs Messi flame wars, the one guy whos a Serie A fan? And where I can brag how I used a video game to turn my son into a soccer fan?  :grin:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on January 16, 2013, 10:29:28 AM
Here (http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2013/01/16/public-universities-spend-more-than-100g-per-athlete-about-six-times-more-than/?test=latestnews#ixzz2I9IYpCmh)'s an interesting article on the spending in college athletics (Warning-  it's Fox News). 

Apparently the big six spend over six figures per athlete (meaning not just football players) as compared to something just over the teens for the average academic student.  This highlights a few things:  1.  If you aren't going to spend the money you might as well get out.  The SEC and Pac 12 and BIG Ten are swinging big sticks.  2.  The world of college athletics has completely bastardized the mission of many of these schools.  Yes, you can argue that the football and basketball brings in money and is marketing, but I doubt that it is actually paying its way when you look at all the figures.  This is undoubtedly true at all smaller schools.  3.  The sham of college athletes being "amateur" in status really should end immediately.  Sure, they're getting an education, but for some of them that is like giving me a trip to go big game hunting in Africa-  I have no fucking interest in that and they don't have any interest in the education that is being provided.  The schools should pay the players straight up and let them use the money for education if they want.  4.  It is probably shocking the amount of money that the SEC, Big Ten and PAC12 schools spend on their football players as this is for all athletes, not just for the Alabama football squad.  It could be upwards of $400,000 to $500,000 per player in the big leagues. 


Quote
The study finds the largest gap by far in the Southeastern Conference, which combines relatively low academic spending and explosive coaching salaries. Median athletic spending there totaled nearly $164,000 per athlete in 2010. That is more than 12 times the $13,390 that SEC schools spent per student for academic expenses, including instructional costs and student services.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on January 16, 2013, 10:34:18 AM
My guess, without digging into the numbers, is that those per student spending numbers included facilities and a stadium, when in reality they shouldn't. It artificially inflates the spending number.

Those building assets are related to the revenue, not the student. The student turns over yearly. Why attach those dollars to them? It should be about the variable costs associated with each kid.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on January 16, 2013, 10:39:12 AM
It is highly likely that the article is going off of the yearly athletic budgets of the universities, which makes complete sense.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on January 16, 2013, 10:50:36 AM
As an example I pulled UGA's Atheletic 990. They have $78M in expenses and 614 scholarship athletes. That's pretty close to $127k a kid. Pretty close to their $100k average number tossed about.

However, what does that include? Well the bulk of it isn't scholarships at all that's only $10.6M as grants to the university. Nope, the majority is $27.6M in salaries, and $40M in "Other expenses"

What does Other include? $6M of depreciation, $5M of repairs, $1.6M of recruiting, $2.8M of interest, $3M of office expenses, $1M of investment management, $1M in professional fees, $1.5M in occupany, $7.5M of miscellaneous. That's about $30M of expenses and $15M salaries of general and admin unrelated to coaching.

So $45M have nothing to do with the kids. Nothing. It's just overhead. Take that $78M down to $33M? It's about $53k a kid. Hardly shocking.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on January 16, 2013, 11:24:08 AM
So $45M have nothing to do with the kids. Nothing. It's just overhead. Take that $78M down to $33M? It's about $53k a kid. Hardly shocking.

You can't do it that way.  Those costs wouldn't exist if it weren't for the sports program.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Trippy on January 16, 2013, 12:05:13 PM
If one were to be looking to start playing American Football here in kangarooland, can you guy recommend any reading or info one should look at to better understand the game? I'm thinking not only the basic rules, but also positions, specific plays, what's expected of different types of players, etc...
Play Madden? :awesome_for_real:

There are books that that teach that sort of thing but they may be hard to get down there unless you want to ship them from US sellers. You could try a good public library. Some books you might want to look for:

Football for Dummies (http://www.amazon.com/Football-Dummies-Howie-Long/dp/1118012615/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1358359024&sr=1-1) :awesome_for_real: (by Howie Long, make sure you get the one with the American football on the cover) -- For an overview of the game

NFL: Play Football! (http://www.amazon.com/NFL-Play-Football-DK-Publishing/dp/0789488434/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1358358658&sr=1-4) -- Meant for kids learning how to play (no we male Americans aren't born knowing how to play out of the womb) but it'll teach you the basic mechanics

The Illustrated NFL Playbook (http://www.amazon.com/Illustrated-NFL-Playbook-Bill-Walsh/dp/0894802100/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1358358786&sr=1-1&keywords=nfl+playbook) -- Book for learning about formations and plays (i.e. the "X's" and "O's" of football), sadly out of print (and out-of-date). This book was bundled with the classic football game NFL Challenge.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Shannow on January 16, 2013, 12:15:20 PM
I'd just find the local league and rock up and say you want to play. Usually groups like this love having natives join wanting to learn their game. The Australian Rules football team here in Boston really enjoy teaching Americans how to play a real code.. :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on January 16, 2013, 12:16:29 PM
So $45M have nothing to do with the kids. Nothing. It's just overhead. Take that $78M down to $33M? It's about $53k a kid. Hardly shocking.

You can't do it that way.  Those costs wouldn't exist if it weren't for the sports program.

Yes, I can. Those costs exist because the program serves all the fans, not the athletes. They have nothing to do with those actual variable costs of the kids (housing, board, coaching, medical, training, scholarship, etc.) The athletes don't need a stadium, the fans do. They don't need people to sell them tickets, soft drinks, or do the accounting. The fans do. The majority of those fixed costs are associated with bringin the game to the fans, not the kids.

They could literally cut all those costs and still have a product on the field. Watch an FCS game. Idaho State's stadium was built for $2.8M and holds 12,000 people. The fixed costs like that are just multipliers of the fanbase, not the kids involved.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on January 16, 2013, 12:16:55 PM
Do we have enough interest to start a 'soccer' thread? Premier League hipsters, Ronaldo vs Messi flame wars, the one guy whos a Serie A fan? And where I can brag how I used a video game to turn my son into a soccer fan?  :grin:

I used to start one every season, but fell off when I stopped the EPL fantasy league. Go ahead and start one and I'll be sure to join in.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on January 16, 2013, 01:17:35 PM
So $45M have nothing to do with the kids. Nothing. It's just overhead. Take that $78M down to $33M? It's about $53k a kid. Hardly shocking.

You can't do it that way.  Those costs wouldn't exist if it weren't for the sports program.

Yes, I can. Those costs exist because the program serves all the fans, not the athletes. They have nothing to do with those actual variable costs of the kids (housing, board, coaching, medical, training, scholarship, etc.) The athletes don't need a stadium, the fans do. They don't need people to sell them tickets, soft drinks, or do the accounting. The fans do. The majority of those fixed costs are associated with bringin the game to the fans, not the kids.

They could literally cut all those costs and still have a product on the field. Watch an FCS game. Idaho State's stadium was built for $2.8M and holds 12,000 people. The fixed costs like that are just multipliers of the fanbase, not the kids involved.

And on top of that the number being tossed out doesn't seem to give any consideration to how much revenue is brought back by spending those dollars in the first place? So, yeah.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Nebu on January 16, 2013, 01:25:04 PM
Wouldn't it be refreshing if the NCAA just stopped calling the players "student athletes" and started calling them "employees"?  The whole "amateur" farce is getting tired. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on January 16, 2013, 04:57:07 PM
Yes, I can. Those costs exist because the program serves all the fans, not the athletes. They have nothing to do with those actual variable costs of the kids (housing, board, coaching, medical, training, scholarship, etc.) The athletes don't need a stadium, the fans do. They don't need people to sell them tickets, soft drinks, or do the accounting. The fans do. The majority of those fixed costs are associated with bringin the game to the fans, not the kids.

They could literally cut all those costs and still have a product on the field. Watch an FCS game. Idaho State's stadium was built for $2.8M and holds 12,000 people. The fixed costs like that are just multipliers of the fanbase, not the kids involved.

Okay, you're right.  If you got rid of the football program those costs would still exist.  Good thing you have a CPA degree to figure that out.   :grin:

Oh, and the FCS schools and low level FBS schools that you're talking about are some of those that typically lose the most money. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on January 16, 2013, 05:53:43 PM
Profit has nothing to do with costs in that article. You've hit on the absurd part of piece.

What they should actually do isn't costs. They should show exactly how much profit each athlete brings in per high level program.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Nebu on January 16, 2013, 05:57:27 PM
I don't think that you can measure profit in dollars.  Most university athletic programs reinvest the money in the program and the only benefit that the university gains is in terms of marketing exposure.  Athletic departments are nothing more than a marketing engine for universities.  If they generate no net revenue, that's fine.  They are worth billions of dollars annually in exposure. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on January 16, 2013, 06:01:33 PM
Since....

Quote
A total of 14 athletics programs in the FBS reported positive net
revenues for the 2009 fiscal year, which represents a decrease from
the 25 reported in 2008. The gap between the “profitable” programs
and the remainder continued to grow, however a bit more slowly.
(3.5)

.....I think your interest in profit is completely irrelevant. 


Source (http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/REV_EXP_2010.pdf).  Quote is from page 8. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on January 16, 2013, 07:30:22 PM
Because they are non-profit their version of "profit" is very different. In reality, a lot of programs generate a true profit before they send out grants.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on January 16, 2013, 07:40:01 PM
But that isn't applicable in this case.  Almost all of the money goes back into the sports programs, even in the 14 profitable schools.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on January 16, 2013, 09:18:08 PM
That's my point, it doesn't. That 10M I listed in grants was just offshoots to the regular university. So in essence, one of their major expenses is revenue sharing with the school itself from the association.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on January 16, 2013, 09:53:26 PM
The $10 million in grants-in-aid probably doesn't even cover the tuition from their student athletes.  Also, Georgia is one of the few profitable schools, so you can't use them as a real-world example. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on January 16, 2013, 09:58:03 PM
Alright I'm not going to argue this with you because it's stupid. I do not-for-profit audits on this kind of stuff, if they aren't at least covering their variable expenses they simply don't have programs. I'll leave it at that. Believe what you want to believe in a FOX article and an NCAA report.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on January 16, 2013, 10:01:46 PM
You do audits for NCAA football programs and athletic departments?   :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Trippy on January 16, 2013, 10:03:16 PM
Cut it out you two.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Khaldun on January 17, 2013, 06:27:59 PM
Because they are non-profit their version of "profit" is very different. In reality, a lot of programs generate a true profit before they send out grants.

I love phrases like "in reality" that have nothing to do with reality. Especially when there's a study that's actually being talked about that shows that it's not "in reality".

College athletics is fun to watch, fun to root for, and has exactly shit and nothing to do with college except the names on the uniforms and the stadiums (increasingly empty except for the top 15 or so Division I universities) that it's played in. Otherwise it's a minor league that makes a ton of money for somebody, but it sure as hell isn't feeding back into the alleged core mission of educational institutions that bear a lot of uncompensated costs for someone else's profits.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on January 17, 2013, 08:20:29 PM
Because they are non-profit their version of "profit" is very different. In reality, a lot of programs generate a true profit before they send out grants.

I love phrases like "in reality" that have nothing to do with reality. Especially when there's a study that's actually being talked about that shows that it's not "in reality".

College athletics is fun to watch, fun to root for, and has exactly shit and nothing to do with college except the names on the uniforms and the stadiums (increasingly empty except for the top 15 or so Division I universities) that it's played in. Otherwise it's a minor league that makes a ton of money for somebody, but it sure as hell isn't feeding back into the alleged core mission of educational institutions that bear a lot of uncompensated costs for someone else's profits.

You should look at that NCAA study I linked above.  It agrees very well with everything you just said.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Khaldun on January 21, 2013, 09:49:00 AM
The spirit of honest competition does float to the top now and again.

http://elpais.com/elpais/2012/12/19/inenglish/1355928581_856388.html


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on January 21, 2013, 09:58:25 AM
Yeah, I read that after someone put it on Facebook.  It's pretty nice to know that there are still some people with ethics in this world. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on January 23, 2013, 07:07:54 PM
http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/01/23/miami-noa-delayed-as-ncaa-investigates-itself/related/

Quote
In a press release, the NCAA announced that its “national office has uncovered an issue of improper conduct within its enforcement program that occurred during the University of Miami investigation.”  In other words, the NCAA violated NCAA bylaws in its investigation of an NCAA member.

 :ye_gods: :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on January 24, 2013, 08:58:01 AM
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8875990/lawyer-ronaiah-tuiasosopo-was-voice-talking-manti-teo

He's gay. This only reinforces my belief. He and Ronaiah had a relationship and now they are trying to cover their tracks.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on January 24, 2013, 11:53:57 AM
I guess it's possible.  I'm  sure any decent investigation would show that the two were in cahoots, which might lend credence to that possibility.  Not that I give two shits, but that might hurt his draft status more than anything else that's happened considering all the douchenozzle reactions you'd see from other players.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on January 24, 2013, 12:40:57 PM
I guess it's possible.  I'm  sure any decent investigation would show that the two were in cahoots, which might lend credence to that possibility.  Not that I give two shits, but that might hurt his draft status more than anything else that's happened considering all the douchenozzle reactions you'd see from other players.

Draft status nothing. Coming out pretty much kills your career chances in the NFL... as sad as that is to say. So yeah, there are HUGE reasons to spin this in the "I was dumb and deceived" light rather than what it is looking like.

Then again, who knows. Maybe this guy is the one who starts to change the NFL anti-gay culture. *shrug


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Shannow on January 24, 2013, 03:31:56 PM


Draft status nothing. Coming out pretty much kills your career chances in the NFL... as sad as that is to say.


Not being snarky, just wondering what evidence you have to back up that statement. I realize the general culture and all but I'm thinking in 2013 if you came out you are more likely to be applauded than booed. Also imagine if any of your prospective team mates made anti-gay comments the PR backlash would be huge. I think a guy like that has more of chance to be this generations Jackie Robinson than a pariah.    Also I bet the Patriots would draft him  if he was good enough.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on January 24, 2013, 03:39:13 PM


Draft status nothing. Coming out pretty much kills your career chances in the NFL... as sad as that is to say.


Not being snarky, just wondering what evidence you have to back up that statement. I realize the general culture and all but I'm thinking in 2013 if you came out you are more likely to be applauded than booed. Also imagine if any of your prospective team mates made anti-gay comments the PR backlash would be huge. I think a guy like that has more of chance to be this generations Jackie Robinson than a pariah.    Also I bet the Patriots would draft him  if he was good enough.

What evidence? Other than decades and decades of gay players being ostracized and treated badly by their teammates, from youth leagues on up? This is not a controversial statement, there are very few jobs in the country where being gay would cause you as many problems in the workplace as (men's) team sports.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on January 24, 2013, 03:44:58 PM


Draft status nothing. Coming out pretty much kills your career chances in the NFL... as sad as that is to say.


Not being snarky, just wondering what evidence you have to back up that statement. I realize the general culture and all but I'm thinking in 2013 if you came out you are more likely to be applauded than booed. Also imagine if any of your prospective team mates made anti-gay comments the PR backlash would be huge. I think a guy like that has more of chance to be this generations Jackie Robinson than a pariah.    Also I bet the Patriots would draft him  if he was good enough.


There's a reason these guys wait until after they are retired to come out of the closet. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on January 24, 2013, 03:57:57 PM
Read the Jason Taylor article about the shit he did to get in the field. Apply that same macho attitude of "I'm playing Hell or High water" to guys that want to intimidate their opponent on the field. Apply massive doses of HGH. Mix liberally. Then tell me how easy it would be for someone to come out of the closet while playing in the NFL.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on January 24, 2013, 04:05:17 PM
Which is funny because you'd have to imagine that athletes have the same ~4% rate of homosexuality that the rest of society has. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on January 24, 2013, 04:07:17 PM
Which is funny because you'd have to imagine that athletes have the same ~4% rate of homosexuality that the rest of society has. 

And there are absolutely gay athletes. They just fear reprisals.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on January 24, 2013, 04:12:57 PM
Which is funny because you'd have to imagine that athletes have the same ~4% rate of homosexuality that the rest of society has. 

Well, not necessarily. You can assume that a fairly large chunk of gay people* are weeded out of the game by hazing or bullying or just the general anti-gay culture at lower levels, which would naturally leave professional level athletes with a lower percentage. And of course, a high degree of 'hell NO I'm not going to come out, I saw what happened to the other guys who did/got found out.'

*Gay men, anyway. My non-scientific anecdotal observation is that team athletics actually attract MORE lesbians than are in the general population as a percentage, probably because women athletes get the same 'you are being unladylike, stop it' treatment from society that lesbians do a lot of the time, so it becomes a way for them to blend in, find each other, and just generally have a positive group experience that they probably get shut out of in other contexts a lot. Note: I could be talking out of my ass here, but it seems to make sense.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on January 24, 2013, 04:48:11 PM
*Gay men, anyway. My non-scientific anecdotal observation is that team athletics actually attract MORE lesbians than are in the general population as a percentage, probably because women athletes get the same 'you are being unladylike, stop it' treatment from society that lesbians do a lot of the time, so it becomes a way for them to blend in, find each other, and just generally have a positive group experience that they probably get shut out of in other contexts a lot. Note: I could be talking out of my ass here, but it seems to make sense.

Having gone to the women's superbowl back in August, and hanging out with those girls on several teams... this is not that far off.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on January 24, 2013, 06:39:20 PM
There certainly would be some self-selection bias in the groups of athletes that you wouldn't find in a random population, but to think that there aren't gay NFL players just because they aren't outed is unlikely.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on January 24, 2013, 06:44:17 PM
Oh certainly, I wasn't intending to imply there weren't.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: WayAbvPar on January 24, 2013, 06:45:06 PM
32 kickers- good place to start  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on January 24, 2013, 06:54:27 PM
32 kickers- good place to start  :awesome_for_real:

Also, punters.  :grin:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on January 24, 2013, 07:05:35 PM
If my gay friends are any indication, I would say the ones who put shirtless pictures of themselves up everywhere on the Internet that they can find an excuse to would be the best starting place.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on January 24, 2013, 07:27:33 PM
Well, not necessarily. You can assume that a fairly large chunk of gay people* are weeded out of the game by hazing or bullying or just the general anti-gay culture at lower levels, which would naturally leave professional level athletes with a lower percentage. And of course, a high degree of 'hell NO I'm not going to come out, I saw what happened to the other guys who did/got found out.'

*Gay men, anyway. My non-scientific anecdotal observation is that team athletics actually attract MORE lesbians than are in the general population as a percentage, probably because women athletes get the same 'you are being unladylike, stop it' treatment from society that lesbians do a lot of the time, so it becomes a way for them to blend in, find each other, and just generally have a positive group experience that they probably get shut out of in other contexts a lot. Note: I could be talking out of my ass here, but it seems to make sense.

Yeah, I don't assume that at all.  Why?  Because most of my gay friends are accustomed to being hazed and bullied if they're out or are afraid of being hazed and bullied if they aren't in respect to all aspects of life.  It's still pretty tough being gay.  And because of that I assume that there are plenty of athletes in the big leagues that have kept it hidden just like everyone else. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on January 24, 2013, 07:31:39 PM
OK, sure, the % of any given sub-group is going to be the same in any and all walks of life, regardless of external circumstances or pressures.  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on January 24, 2013, 08:26:09 PM
OK, sure, the % of any given sub-group is going to be the same in any and all walks of life, regardless of external circumstances or pressures.  :oh_i_see:

You're stereotyping and have no real evidence to contradict known statistical figures.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Cyrrex on January 25, 2013, 12:48:36 AM
Except that what he is saying makes perfect sense, both in regards to male and female sports. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on January 25, 2013, 09:55:40 AM
OK, sure, the % of any given sub-group is going to be the same in any and all walks of life, regardless of external circumstances or pressures.  :oh_i_see:

You're stereotyping and have no real evidence to contradict known statistical figures.

Aren't we all kind of stereotyping based on being straight males AND having no statistical figures to draw any conclusions from?


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on January 25, 2013, 09:58:30 AM
Yep everyone is just guessing and pulling figures out of their asses.

It's statistical ass-play.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on January 25, 2013, 10:06:09 AM
That's the only kind accountants can get into.  :rimshot:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on January 25, 2013, 10:10:49 AM
We Excel at it.









 :wink:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: sickrubik on January 25, 2013, 10:17:01 AM
We Excel at it.









 :wink:

(http://www.icsmmblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/IMG-referee-flag.jpg)


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on January 25, 2013, 01:00:45 PM
OK, sure, the % of any given sub-group is going to be the same in any and all walks of life, regardless of external circumstances or pressures.  :oh_i_see:

You're stereotyping and have no real evidence to contradict known statistical figures.

Aren't we all kind of stereotyping based on being straight males AND having no statistical figures to draw any conclusions from?

No.

We're speculating. And at least in my case, extrapolating from how I've seen gay people treated in group environments allegedly much more accepting than sports (music, gaming, even theater sometimes), and the sort of way I've seen non-gay (but also non-athlete) people treated by athletes in a group environment. I'm very comfortable with the hypothesis I've reached.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Cyrrex on January 31, 2013, 01:43:46 AM
Just because it is topical to the recent discussion...

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--report--niners-cb-says-openly-gay-players-would-not-be-welcomed-on-the-team-190346715.html (http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--report--niners-cb-says-openly-gay-players-would-not-be-welcomed-on-the-team-190346715.html)

He rescinded the comment, but I don't for a nanosecond believe that his apology was earnest.  He was simply forced to do it by his team.  I would imagine his viewpoint is a common one in the NFL, though we will never know for sure, and thankfully most of them will be smart enough to keep it to themselves.  I think what we can all agree on is that this guy is a fucking dick and a total idiot.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on January 31, 2013, 01:45:48 AM
Also nearly guaranteed to be looking for a new team soon, I expect.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on January 31, 2013, 08:44:11 AM
It is common. That's why guys like Teo have to lie their asses off so their relationships never come out while they can still play.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on January 31, 2013, 01:16:11 PM
The particular market he plays in combined with the fact that he's not a starter but could have been in line for a starting job in the future if he kept his mouth shut adds a couple extra magnitudes of moron onto this particular incident.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on January 31, 2013, 01:25:46 PM
The particular market he plays in combined with the fact that he's not a starter but could have been in line for a starting job in the future if he kept his mouth shut adds a couple extra magnitudes of moron onto this particular incident.

Yeah SF, Miami, Atlanta, NYC, Houston, Seattle, Boston. The comments wouldn't do well in those markets.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on February 04, 2013, 09:56:20 AM
European sport is a cesspool of cheating and lack of integrity.

Top level European football matches under investigation for being fixed (http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/04/sport/football/match-fixing-champions-league-football/index.html?hpt=hp_t3). 

Quote
A total of 380 games in Europe -- including World Cup and European Championship qualifiers -- have been deemed suspicious, with 425 match and club officials and criminals involved from 15 different countries.

I have a suspicion that PEDs are probably rampant in the football leagues across the world.  It's tough to see what is going on with cycling and American baseball and think that it wouldn't be, what with all the money that is at stake. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Shannow on February 04, 2013, 10:05:41 AM
sport is a cesspool of cheating and lack of integrity.

fify.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on February 04, 2013, 11:39:51 AM
European sport is a cesspool of cheating and lack of integrity.

Top level European football matches under investigation for being fixed (http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/04/sport/football/match-fixing-champions-league-football/index.html?hpt=hp_t3). 

Quote
A total of 380 games in Europe -- including World Cup and European Championship qualifiers -- have been deemed suspicious, with 425 match and club officials and criminals involved from 15 different countries.

Hell, after the 2006 World Cup, three Italian club teams, and I mean TOP LEVEL teams like Juventus, were punished by their FA for match-fixing scandals. Juventus even ended up getting relegated to the second division for it, though they were back in the Serie A a season later having won promotion easily. So... not shocking.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Shannow on February 04, 2013, 01:05:19 PM
Oh and Qatar got the World Cup in 2022 based purely upon its merits.  :roll:



Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on February 04, 2013, 01:10:59 PM
Oh and Qatar got the World Cup in 2022 based purely upon its merits.  :roll:

Merits? Is this what the New World Order currency is now?  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on February 04, 2013, 02:10:06 PM
I thought the new world order currency was blowjobs. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on February 04, 2013, 02:31:13 PM
I thought they revoked that World Cup from Qatar.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on February 04, 2013, 02:39:16 PM
Nope.  Still there, as far as I (and Wikipedia) know. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on February 12, 2013, 12:10:42 PM
So the Olympics is removing wrestling. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/12/olympics-drop-wrestling-ioc-2020_n_2668195.html

Also in discussion was taekwando, modern pentathlon, and field hockey. Field hockey is pretty cool, so I'm happy they kept it. Here's what pissed me off about the decision. The criteria were as follows:

Quote
The board voted after reviewing a report by the IOC program commission report that analyzed 39 criteria, including television ratings, ticket sales, anti-doping policy and global participation and popularity.

So you're saying that nobody was watching wrestling and/or buying tickets. Yet Modern Pentathalon, a sport where almost nobody could name all 5 events involved, somehow made the cut? Made the cut ahead of one of the oldest competitive sports next to just running around?

Quote
Modern pentathlon also benefited from the work of Juan Antonio Samaranch Jr., the son of the former IOC president who is a UIPM vice president and member of the IOC board.

Oh, I see.  :oh_i_see: It gets better though. They are up to add a new event now. We could very well get sport climbing, roller sports, or wakeboarding. The idea of wakeboarding replacing wrestling as an Olympic sport is just wrong.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Nevermore on February 14, 2013, 05:13:46 PM
Oscar Pistorius accused of killing his girlfriend. (http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/14/world/africa/south-africa-blade-runner-shooting/index.html)

For people who may not remember, Oscar Pistorius is 'Blade Runner', the double amputee Olympic runner.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on February 14, 2013, 05:15:34 PM
Oops.

(http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18emgde8oskxmjpg/original.jpg)


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: sickrubik on February 14, 2013, 05:17:18 PM
That just makes me want to make a whole series of photoshops.

I AM THE DOG IN THE FIGHT (Vick), etc.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on February 19, 2013, 09:24:58 AM
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/47055378/ns/sports-soccer/

Quote
FIFA committed Tuesday to using goal-line technology at the 2014 World Cup in Brazil, and could have four systems competing for selection.

Thank god they are not being stupid about this anymore...


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on February 19, 2013, 10:38:32 AM
Maybe one day we'll have that in baseball instead of umpires.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Nebu on February 19, 2013, 10:42:53 AM
Now all FIFA has to add is a "Dive detector" and soccer will be watchable again.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on February 19, 2013, 10:47:45 AM
Now all FIFA has to add is a "Dive detector" and soccer will be watchable again.

(http://resources2.news.com.au/images/2013/01/10/1226551/234038-sign-in-melton.jpg)


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on February 21, 2013, 03:36:01 PM
Now all FIFA has to add is a "Dive detector" and soccer will be watchable again.

Snipers would be better for entertainment value. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Nebu on February 25, 2013, 08:25:19 PM
Am I a bad person for laughing at this?

(http://i.imgur.com/vH2HkSY.jpg)


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on February 25, 2013, 08:37:26 PM
I'm amazed it's even that close.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Chimpy on February 26, 2013, 02:21:17 AM
I would have rather found $5 than have any local professional team win a championship in any city I have lived in.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Trippy on March 01, 2013, 12:50:20 AM
Amazing catch (college baseball):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xiqjbrX9DE


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Megrim on March 12, 2013, 06:09:07 PM
So I've gone through with it, and have started playing American Football here in Aus. Does anyone have any recommendations on what I should look for in a WR helmet? Also, gloves - yes/no? Pretentious douchery or good aid?


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on March 13, 2013, 10:24:51 AM
If it ain't cold, why would you wear gloves as a wideout?


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on March 13, 2013, 10:47:18 AM
Traction.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Megrim on March 16, 2013, 08:38:45 PM
Yea, I'm getting mixed reports on gloves. We are coming into autumn here in Aus, and will be playing throughout winter, and I've already noticed how tricky it can be to catch a really fast thrown ball with numb fingers. But on the other hand, gloves do seem kinda wanky. Still, should be fun though.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: murdoc on March 17, 2013, 01:57:57 PM
They definitely help when it's cooler. It's been a few years since I played football, but for Fall and Spring Ultimate I wear them. Numb fingers + trying to catch = lots of drops and receiver gloves are just enough to help with that.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Nebu on March 17, 2013, 04:00:46 PM
If it ain't cold, why would you wear gloves as a wideout?

Grip, cushion, and protection for your hands from the turf. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on April 05, 2013, 01:00:42 PM
I don't know if you guys have been following this Mike Rice stuff, but the guy is a major douchebag.  Rutgers is getting ready to have some major backlash in the higher ups. (http://espn.go.com/new-york/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9137089/tim-pernetti-rutgers-scarlet-knights-athletic-director)  Things are still dirty with the NCAA, but it seems as though the schools are actually starting to hold some people accountable......when they have a gun to their head.   :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Nebu on April 05, 2013, 01:21:53 PM
Rutgers was at the bottom of the Big East.  That makes firing your coach a hell of a lot easier while appearing to give a shit about student athletes than if you had Louisville-like numbers.

Bobby Knight never had a problem getting a job and I have to imagine that he did a hell of a lot worse than this.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on April 05, 2013, 01:29:09 PM
Rutgers was at the bottom of the Big East.  That makes firing your coach a hell of a lot easier while appearing to give a shit about student athletes than if you had Louisville-like numbers.

Bobby Knight never had a problem getting a job and I have to imagine that he did a hell of a lot worse than this.

There's worse on video-  when he choked Neil Reed.  That almost got him fired.  I can't imagine that people would put with this shit now.  Look what they did to Paterno.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on April 05, 2013, 02:08:13 PM
Look what they did to Paterno.

Not even remotely similar.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on April 05, 2013, 02:17:27 PM
Sure it is.  "Great" guy.....skeletons in the closet......

And the point wasn't to compare, it was to show that even the mightiest can be toppled.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on April 23, 2013, 09:59:12 AM
Mike Tyson:  He bit someone....it happens. (http://espnfc.com/news/story/_/id/1422795/mike-tyson-on-luis-suarez:-'he-bit-someone,-it-happens'-?cc=5901)

 :awesome_for_real:

Quote
He added: "I saw this guy (Suarez) on the Twitter thing and thought I would check it out and see what his journey was all about."

 :heart:

What is your journey about, Mike? 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Shannow on April 23, 2013, 11:09:59 AM
The 'Cannibal of Ajax' strikes again.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on April 23, 2013, 11:19:58 AM
As a huge Liverpool and Luis Suarez fan, I have to say it stunned even me while watching the game. I didn't know he'd done it before. I cannot imagine what makes you think 1) you won't be seen and caught and 2) why the fuck would you bite a dude in a football match? THE FUCK? He'll be suspended the rest of the season and some of the next and he deserves every bit of stick he'll get for it.

But goddamn is he an amazing player to watch.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on April 23, 2013, 11:30:49 AM
Some of these guys completely lose their shit when they play.  They don't even know what they're doing. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Shannow on April 23, 2013, 01:46:04 PM
 Amusing article on biting in sports  (http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/59314/tree-bites-man-a-brief-video-history-of-biting-in-sports)

Highlights being mentioning the Uruguyan (sp?) Rugby team that crashed in the Andes and clip of dog at the barstardized version of Gaelic football/Aussie Rules that Ireland and Australia play annually.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on April 23, 2013, 02:32:26 PM
That Tyson bite is one of the most brutal things you'll see. 

Also, lest we forget what a coked up badass Tyson was in his prime....here are some highlights (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FgS3kCv79I).


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Jeff Kelly on April 24, 2013, 08:17:31 PM
Germany: 8, Spain:1

I can't even remember the last time both of La Liga's premier football clubs got steamrolled like this let alone in the same week.

I'm really looking forward to the UK coverage of an all German Champions League final at Wembley. Maybe we should start putting towels on the seats at Wembley.

Great performances by both Munich and Dortmund.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Shannow on April 24, 2013, 10:18:24 PM
Yeah I don't think anyone quite saw that coming.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on April 25, 2013, 08:46:25 AM
Nash will receive an epidural in his right hamstring Thursday, his third such injection in just more than a week as he continues to struggle with nerve damage stemming from a right hip injury sustained last month. (http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/9210022/steve-nash-steve-blake-jodie-meeks-banged-los-angeles-lakers)


 :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on April 25, 2013, 11:26:20 AM
Dortmund is a really good team, and I'm glad they shellacked Mourinho's Real team. Both Barca and Real seem to be kind of shaky underneath their success. I think if they hadn't spent the last 5 years buying up every single Spanish star of note and robbing the other teams for it, on top of all the foreign top players they've bought in, La Liga might be more competitive at the top than it has been in that time frame. The Bundeslia has been a real fight the previous two years, but now it looks like Bayern is set for a Barca-like run for the next few years there as well. Buy up all the goddamn talent in the league and win by 20+ points. But at least they don't have the same 4 teams taking the top 4 places every year like the EPL used to until Sheik money bought last year's title.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Jeff Kelly on April 25, 2013, 07:02:56 PM
Bayern has been doing that for twenty years now and I'd say that hasn't worked out that well. They bought their fair share of ineffective players or duds and they could never convert their budgetary advantage into a lasting dominance of the Bundesliga. Dortmund won the Championship twice in a row on a much smaller player budget and with a rooster that only cost them €30 million.

I'd say it has more to do with Matthias Sammer replacing Christian Nerlinger as director responsible for scouting and recruitment of players. He had a hand in all hirings this season and also with Heynkes who formed that team. I wonder if Gardiola can repeat that feat next year.

Dortmunds streak is more impressive though because it was achived on a much smaller budget and by much better talent scouting. Otherwise Bayern would have hired Götze or Levandowski before they were playing for Dortmund.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on April 25, 2013, 08:53:22 PM
Dortmunds streak is more impressive though because it was achived on a much smaller budget and by much better talent scouting.

Absolutely. They are also a helluva lot more fun to watch. I don't think Gardiola is going to be that great at Bayern personally. His accomplishments were making sure that a team of all-star world class players didn't implode on bad chemistry. It shouldn't have been hard to be that good with Barcelona.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Llyse on May 08, 2013, 04:54:40 AM
It's a bit late now, but Sir Alex Ferguson has announced his retirement!!  :ye_gods:

I don't remember anyone else managing Manchester United...  :heartbreak:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: WayAbvPar on May 08, 2013, 11:20:24 AM
Hope Mourinho takes over.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on May 08, 2013, 12:12:44 PM
Mourinho seems to be destined to go to Chelsea again if all the rumors are to be believed. I'd rather see David Moyes get in there - he's done amazing work with almost no budget at Everton. Plus, that would weaken Everton.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: WayAbvPar on May 08, 2013, 12:31:28 PM
I could live with Moyes. He could be there quite a while if he has success.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on May 08, 2013, 03:15:02 PM
I just love all of the hypocrisy involved with this.  Michigan AD says "the door is open" do Webber and the Fab Five (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9253763/michigan-wolverines-door-open-chris-webber-maurice-taylor-louis-bullock). 

Michigan is a pile of turds for cheating their way to the final four and then basically shooing them out the door.  Rose, Webber and Howard, et. al., are piles of turds for taking all that money and then acting like everything was the U of Michigan's fault.  Ah, college sports is seriously fucked up. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on May 08, 2013, 03:32:09 PM
I would have taken the money too. It's not illegal.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on May 08, 2013, 04:37:46 PM
That's not the point.  Most of us would have.  The point is that the NCAA, Michigan and the players are all hypcritical, greedy douchebags. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on May 08, 2013, 05:19:53 PM
That's not the point.  Most of us would have.  The point is that the NCAA, Michigan and the players are all hypcritical, greedy douchebags. 

It's kind of hard for us to be shocked at the hypocrisy of the NCAA and it's schools at this point. I love UGA, but I don't for a second believe we run a clean program, nor do I believe our boosters stay out of things, nor do I believe the AD wouldn't sell the fans down the river the for an extra $5M a year.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on May 08, 2013, 05:22:43 PM
Well, at least you have Mikey Adams, the bastion of all that is good and right in the academic world.   :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on May 08, 2013, 05:25:27 PM
Not for long!


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on May 08, 2013, 05:37:03 PM
Is he getting run out of town?


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on May 08, 2013, 05:46:31 PM
Is he getting run out of town?


http://www.ajc.com/news/news/state-regional-govt-politics/uga-president-adams-is-stepping-down/nQTWY/

Just under two more months left.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on May 09, 2013, 03:36:51 PM
Mourinho seems to be destined to go to Chelsea again if all the rumors are to be believed. I'd rather see David Moyes get in there - he's done amazing work with almost no budget at Everton. Plus, that would weaken Everton.  :awesome_for_real:

(http://i.imgur.com/OBecVce.jpg)
As you wish...

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/51830676/ns/sports-soccer/


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on May 09, 2013, 03:47:36 PM
Yep. No big shock there and absolutely the right man for the job.

There's talk of Martinez or Laudrup for the vacant Everton position. It would be funny to see Martinez abandon the sinking Wigan ship to go to Everton after Liverpool chose Rodgers over him last year.

Also, in older news but still related - NBC won the rights to broadcast the EPL in America by paying almost 4 times as much as the Fox/ESPN group were willing to pay. Meaning I'll finally get the EPL in HD again as the games will be on NBC Sports Network as well as I think some NBC games.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Shannow on May 09, 2013, 04:06:41 PM
Yep. No big shock there and absolutely the right man for the job.

There's talk of Martinez or Laudrup for the vacant Everton position. It would be funny to see Martinez abandon the sinking Wigan ship to go to Everton after Liverpool chose Rodgers over him last year.

Also, in older news but still related - NBC won the rights to broadcast the EPL in America by paying almost 4 times as much as the Fox/ESPN group were willing to pay. Meaning I'll finally get the EPL in HD again as the games will be on NBC Sports Network as well as I think some NBC games.

Nice, will we get more than one game a week?


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on May 09, 2013, 05:10:17 PM
All you need to know about the deal. (http://epltalk.com/2013/04/23/everything-you-need-to-know-about-nbcs-coverage-of-the-premier-league-2013-16/)

Apparently, 6 games a weekend live on NBC Sports Network or NBC, with the remaining four on a kind of Red Zone like package available to providers. Also, all will be streamed on NBC Sports Live Extra service if your provider has that. The 12:30 EST Saturday game will be on NBC.

EDIT: Also, some misconceptions about the coverage (http://epltalk.com/2013/04/23/top-7-misconceptions-about-nbcs-premier-league-coverage/), including who gets the streaming and Red Zone like package.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on May 12, 2013, 09:07:23 AM
Sergio Garcia is such a whiney piece of shit.  Just play golf, dickbag. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on May 12, 2013, 03:00:19 PM
Never understood that part of golf. If you can't hit the ball with some kinda slight distractions going on around you, then why play?


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on May 12, 2013, 05:43:48 PM
Never understood that part of golf. If you can't hit the ball with some kinda slight distractions going on around you, then why play?

It's meaningless. Sergio wasn't complaining about it because of the noise. He was complaining because he hates Tiger, and he hit a bad shot. Sergio loves to blame everyone but himself, but after the end of this round, he's proving why he isn't fit to carry Tiger's jock.

Choke-artist.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on May 13, 2013, 09:58:15 AM
[urlhttp://blogs.golf.com/presstent/2013/05/sergio-garcias-most-memorable-meltdowns.html?eref=sihp]Here's a nice group of videos[/url] showing what a complete assbag Sergio Garcia is.

They are worth watching.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: RhyssaFireheart on May 13, 2013, 10:25:52 AM
Never understood that part of golf. If you can't hit the ball with some kinda slight distractions going on around you, then why play?

It's meaningless. Sergio wasn't complaining about it because of the noise. He was complaining because he hates Tiger, and he hit a bad shot. Sergio loves to blame everyone but himself, but after the end of this round, he's proving why he isn't fit to carry Tiger's jock.

Choke-artist.
Husband and I were just laughing our heads off at Sergio's play on the 16th and 17th holes yesterday.  A quad-bogey?  That was freaking priceless.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Nebu on May 13, 2013, 11:21:02 AM
I never knew Sergio could channel Greg Norman so well. 

Tiger wins by virtue of the fact that he didn't choke when everyone around him did.  Go Tiger?!?!


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: WayAbvPar on May 13, 2013, 11:26:52 AM
That is how he wins about 75% of his titles. Occasionally he just steamrolls everyone (like the 97 Masters), but most often he just hangs around and makes less mistakes.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on May 13, 2013, 12:18:49 PM
That is how he wins about 75% of his titles. Occasionally he just steamrolls everyone (like the 97 Masters), but most often he just hangs around and makes less mistakes.

That's essentially it. The course was brutal yesterday, mostly because I think the wind was up, and the groundscrew got extremely butthurt about the pre-cut totals. They were moving pin positions to places they'd never used on that course.

Tiger isn't dumb enough to take stupid chances. It's that mentality that he can capitalize on his good shots, rather than chase, that keeps him in leads.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on May 16, 2013, 06:08:02 PM
http://espn.go.com/racing/nascar/cup/story/_/id/9283240/retired-driver-dick-trickle-dead-apparent-self-inflicted-gun-shot-wound

The man with THE name in NASCAR takes his own life @ 71 years old. I am a bit stunned...


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on May 16, 2013, 06:43:25 PM
It's very shocking. There had to be something wrong. He must have either found out he was dying or just mentally lost it.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Sir T on May 16, 2013, 09:19:07 PM
Oh yeah, in who cares News, The most overhyped Player ever to kick a ball to the opposition rather than be tackled and ruin his beautiful skinl resigned today. I'd give a link but David Becham's personality is so fucking boring I fell asleep reaching for the CTRL+C keys.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: RhyssaFireheart on May 17, 2013, 09:33:58 AM
http://espn.go.com/racing/nascar/cup/story/_/id/9283240/retired-driver-dick-trickle-dead-apparent-self-inflicted-gun-shot-wound

The man with THE name in NASCAR takes his own life @ 71 years old. I am a bit stunned...
I haven't read this yet, but the husband was digging more last night after I mentioned this to him.  Apparently Trickle is the step-father? of a driver in the truck series.  No biggie, right?

Except that the truck driver was under arrest for stealing another driver's entire transport vehicle - tools, truck, gear, everything - the entire semi - because he had an on-track beef with the (female, I think) driver whose transport was stolen. So now I guess there's some speculation if the theft and suicide are somehow related. I told the husband I couldn't imagine so, because while it's embarrassing to be related in any way to someone who would do something that stupid (steal another driver's transport vehicle), it can't be worth killing yourself over.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Cyrrex on May 17, 2013, 09:36:07 AM
The guy's name was Dick Trickle?  Dick.  Trickle.  It's amazing he lasted that long.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on May 17, 2013, 01:53:41 PM
The guy's name was Dick Trickle?  Dick.  Trickle.  It's amazing he lasted that long.


It's amazing you haven't heard of him before.   :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Cyrrex on May 17, 2013, 02:36:31 PM
Well, isn't it NASCAR or something?  I am part of the 99.8% of humanity that would rather watch amoebas sleep.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on May 19, 2013, 11:54:11 AM
Major comeback by Arsenal to make the Champions Cup.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on May 19, 2013, 03:29:16 PM
To be fair, Spurs were being Spurs most of the last month or so - Bale being hurt didn't help when they don't have anyone else that's all that dangerous these days.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on May 20, 2013, 02:16:39 PM
Well, isn't it NASCAR or something?  I am part of the 99.8% of humanity that would rather watch amoebas sleep.

It is, but ESPN went through a stretch of several years where they mentioned him in every sports center.  It was quite funny.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on May 22, 2013, 12:42:36 PM
I just *love* the fact that whenever anyone gets pissed at Tiger they start pulling out the "Fried Chicken" references (http://espn.go.com/golf/story/_/id/9300965/sergio-garcia-issues-2nd-mea-culpa-fried-chicken-remark-tiger-woods-rebuts).  I'm sure he eats fried chicken all the time.  Because he's black.   :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on May 22, 2013, 12:45:26 PM
Sergio just needs to STFU and win.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Trippy on May 22, 2013, 12:48:15 PM
Asians love fried chicken too :awesome_for_real:

Around where I live "KFC" is Korean Fried Chicken.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on May 22, 2013, 12:50:24 PM
KFC is apparently huge in China (http://qz.com/77471/kfc-makes-most-of-its-money-in-china-and-now-thats-a-big-problem/). 

Sergio is the very definition of a cunt. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on May 22, 2013, 12:52:28 PM
Sergio took what was already and unlikeable whiney exchange and just went full nuclear with the stupid.

I mean, he's been on tour long enough to know this isn't okay.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on May 22, 2013, 12:53:38 PM
They crucified Fuzzy Zoeller.  Garcia is only getting away with this because:  A)  He's European and B)  Tiger is viewed as a bit of a douche now himself.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on May 22, 2013, 12:54:05 PM
He's getting away with it because he's not white.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on May 22, 2013, 01:04:19 PM
I'm fairly sure he is.  

(http://www.andalucia.com/golf/image/MVC0801240031SergioGarcia.jpg)
White boy.   :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on May 22, 2013, 01:04:56 PM
He's getting away with it because he's not white.

Uh, yes he is.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on May 22, 2013, 01:12:09 PM
He's Hispanic. It's not exactly white, but it's not exactly not in America.

My point is I think an white Englishman or Scotsman would be pounded harder for this.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on May 22, 2013, 01:14:09 PM
 :psyduck:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on May 22, 2013, 01:14:32 PM
It's different outside California, sorry to break it you.

To whit, in a large percentage of the country, right or wrong, you are not considered "white" if you are of Hispanic descent.

I don't want to turn it into a thing.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on May 22, 2013, 01:15:31 PM
He's from Spain. He's as non-white as someone from Italy or the south of France.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Rasix on May 22, 2013, 01:18:01 PM
It's different outside California, sorry to break it you.

To whit, in a large percentage of the country, right or wrong, you are not considered "white" if you are of Hispanic descent.

I don't want to turn it into a thing.

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/82533/88-o.gif)


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on May 22, 2013, 01:18:18 PM
He's white.  I think the key factor here is "English Speaker", because those are the only people that can be racist asshats apparently.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on May 22, 2013, 01:25:05 PM
Hey race issues are touchy. I don't ignore them. The whole conversation was touched off by a race issue. You'd get different answers about people of Hispanic descent in different areas of the country. If you don't believe that, I think you're kidding yourself.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on May 22, 2013, 07:03:37 PM
This article makes me laugh.  Sergio Garcia should know better (http://espn.go.com/golf/story/_/id/9301202/sergio-garcia-known-better).

Garcia knew exactly what he was doing when he said this.  There's a reason he said "Fried Chicken" (which, BTW, is probably most appropriate for John Daly).  He knew that it would get under Woods' skin from Tiger's reaction to Fuzzy when it was said the first time.  This was a calculated statement.  Sergio is a little fucker that should die in a plane crash.  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on May 23, 2013, 09:21:10 AM
Hey race issues are touchy. I don't ignore them. The whole conversation was touched off by a race issue. You'd get different answers about people of Hispanic descent in different areas of the country. If you don't believe that, I think you're kidding yourself.


Hispanic people are not from Spain. He's not Hispanic. He's a douchebag, but he's certainly not Hispanic.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on May 23, 2013, 09:48:47 AM
I'm pretty sure the term Hispanic is a direct reference to Spain, but at this point we can all agree he's just a dumbass and move on with our lives.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on May 23, 2013, 10:01:58 AM
Not on f13.   :dead_horse:

Now let's hear a few hundred "hail Mary's" and see a little more remorse for your sins.   :mob:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on May 24, 2013, 10:25:05 AM
Ah, yes.  Sergio is clearly not a racist because all of his friends are "colored" athletes (http://msn.foxsports.com/golf/story/european-tour-ceo-george-ogrady-apologizes-for-using-term-colored-sergio-garcia-tiger-woods-052313). 

This whole deal keeps getting better and better.   :uhrr:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Shannow on May 24, 2013, 11:36:18 AM
Fuck golfers.

Lets talk some German on German crime tommorow with the Champions League Final.

Would really like Dortmund to win, have a feeling Bayern will dominate though.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on May 24, 2013, 11:53:56 AM
Knowing nothing about either team, Bayern has the better name. They will win.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on May 24, 2013, 12:14:21 PM
I want Dortmund to win SO BAD but I don't think they will. I hate Bayern because ever since I started watching German football, they've been buying up any player on any team in Germany that has even a remotely good season. What's funny is that it hasn't really helped them win championships, as they've only won like 3 of the last 6. Now they are taking Goetze from Dortmund. But with the utter domination of the entire Bundesliga by Bayern this year including of Dortmund, I don't see Bayern losing.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on June 02, 2013, 04:44:25 PM
LOL at the Germany own-goal in the US Friendly  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Shannow on June 02, 2013, 05:32:12 PM
LOL at the Germany own-goal in the US Friendly  :why_so_serious:

We call that an operation fortitude  :grin:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on June 03, 2013, 03:09:09 PM
Was it on the "Barbarossa" set piece?   :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on June 03, 2013, 07:55:41 PM
LOL at the Germany own-goal in the US Friendly  :why_so_serious:

You forgot the quotes around "Germany".


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on June 22, 2013, 02:42:35 PM
Brazil v. Italy is already putting me to sleep in the first half. It's a diving contest, and the judges are giving out high scores.

EDIT: Huzzah, a goal! I hate the Italian team so I hope that holds up.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on July 03, 2013, 12:48:55 PM
I have a suspicion that Jay-Z getting involved in sports representation is going to be a bad thing for professional sports (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/jay-z-calls-out-agent-scott-boras-in-new-song-robinson-cano-kevin-durant-070213), in the long run. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Nebu on July 03, 2013, 12:55:23 PM
Anyone else here watching the Tour de Blood-doping?


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on July 03, 2013, 12:57:40 PM
You know, I'm actually not this year.  I usually watch all of it, but I just haven't had any time.  I'll probably try to watch some over the fourth of July weekend.  The kids are getting to the age that I can't stay glued to the TV for 3 hours to watch it unless it's something that interests them.   :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Nebu on July 03, 2013, 01:00:13 PM
I still watch.  I enjoy the tactical aspects, particularly in the mountains.  I can't seem to help myself.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on July 03, 2013, 01:47:28 PM
Jay-Z's involvement in anything besides shutting the fuck up and going away is a bad thing.


HOOO!!!!!!


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on July 03, 2013, 02:03:07 PM
I find cycling extremely compelling, for some reason, even with all the doping.  The Lance Armstrong TdF's were some of the best moments in my personal sports viewing history.  Sounds like Cavendish is still killing it.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on July 03, 2013, 02:07:22 PM
The only time I ever watched the Tour was in high school French class.  :why_so_serious:

Regarding Jay-Z, the only issue I see is there's a possible conflict of interest given he's part owner of a franchise. Otherwise it isn't like he's going to be any more of a shitheel than most agents.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Trippy on July 03, 2013, 02:14:55 PM
He sold his stake in the Nets.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on July 03, 2013, 02:27:37 PM
Yeah, Boras is a dick.  I don't think Jay-Z will be a dick, necessarily, just unnecessarily intermingle sports and hollywood high society in an even more obnoxious fashion than it already is.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on July 03, 2013, 02:52:57 PM
Man, this is a fucking awesome article (http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/sports_nut/2013/07/ncaa_transfer_rule_college_coaches_can_block_their_former_players_from_getting.single.html), out of Slate Magazine, on how fucked up the NCAA has become. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on July 03, 2013, 03:00:05 PM
Man, this is a fucking awesome article (http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/sports_nut/2013/07/ncaa_transfer_rule_college_coaches_can_block_their_former_players_from_getting.single.html), out of Slate Magazine, on how fucked up the NCAA has become. 

The transfer policy bothers me the least of the offenses in the NCAA. If you accept the payment the school is offering in a scholarship, then you don't get to just leave the team at will with no consequence. Having kids be able to transfer at will creates cross-recruiting issues inside the league. You can't have coaches poaching other team's players mid-season. It's ridiculous.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on July 03, 2013, 03:01:31 PM
I would agree with you if the players were guaranteed a four year scholarship.  But the idea that they can get cut at any time make the relationship completely hypocritical bullshit.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on July 03, 2013, 03:03:46 PM
I would agree with you if the players were guaranteed a four year scholarship.  But the idea that they can get cut at any time make the relationship completely hypocritical bullshit.

And in turn, they can leave whenever they want. The penalty of a year doesn't stop that. It also doesn't count against their eligibility. It's there specifically to stop poaching and young kids making very rash decisions. You don't want to have to recruit your own players every single year after the season.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on July 03, 2013, 03:09:36 PM
The penalty of a year certainly discourages it.  I personally don't like the idea of the teams changing so drastically every year either, but it's not fair to the players to hold them to those standards when the shools and the NCAA are taking every advantage of them that they can. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on July 03, 2013, 03:12:54 PM
It's really only a relatively small handful of players in a couple sports that you can really say the NCAA is taking advantage of, though. Football is a mess, and men's basketball to a lesser extent, but those messes pay for a lot of opportunities for people in other sports. I think it can probably be fixed without throwing the baby out with the bathwater.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on July 03, 2013, 03:14:00 PM
No it's not fair, but in the things I want to address that particular rule is at least logical in my mind. Even in the NFL you can't just leave your team for another without penalty, even though they can cut you on a whim. That's the nature of the sport.

What I'd like to see is the same penalty applied to coaches who are at a school for less than a period of 5 years.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on July 03, 2013, 04:00:40 PM
Well that's the main point of the article, really, Paelos-  the process is hypocritical.  Coaches can do whatever they like, whenever they like, and often a kid goes to a school simply because of the coach involved and not the school itself.  I agree that your solution would be a nice way to bridge the gap and make it a little more equitable. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on July 03, 2013, 04:14:33 PM
The best would be to see douches like Kiffin squirm over the penalty. 5 years would be at least enough time to see a full class through.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on July 05, 2013, 01:48:55 PM
Why are the ESPN Dallas writers so much worse than all the other special regional ones?


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on July 05, 2013, 02:10:57 PM
Why are the ESPN Dallas writers so much worse than all the other special regional ones?

Texas?


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ginaz on July 07, 2013, 04:20:06 AM
Two women who I never heard of played in the ladies Wimbledon final.  One of them won.  The other one cried.  A lot.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on July 07, 2013, 10:31:30 AM
Two women who I never heard of played in the ladies Wimbledon final.  One of them won.  The other one cried.  A lot.

And then in a classy move, one of the British announcers made fun of the winner because she was French and not hot.

I'm just happy it wasn't the drugged up Williams sister this time.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on July 07, 2013, 12:27:54 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/06/referee-player-killed-brazil-soccer-fans_n_3555436.html

Quote
Police say enraged spectators invaded a football field, stoned the referee to death and quartered his body after he stabbed a player to death.

I umm... What?


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on July 07, 2013, 12:40:23 PM
Glad they got the world cup.  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Sir T on July 07, 2013, 01:10:40 PM
Glad to see one player in Brazil was not faking his injuries.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Shannow on July 07, 2013, 01:55:20 PM
Murray wins, good on him. Last game was a reminder of how good tennis can be to watch.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Rasix on July 07, 2013, 02:14:53 PM
Pretty good match for a 3 setter.  I was a bit worried at the end that blowing 40-0 serving for the set was going to lead to a massive rally.  I don't think British tennis fans could deal with that much disappointment.  Good for him that he pulled through, as he's played by far the best tennis this tournament.

So, I guess cold towels are kinda nice..


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on July 18, 2013, 09:00:21 AM
This doesn't sound good (http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/9486048/ncaa-not-renewing-contract-ea-sports-video-games) for the NCAA's chances of winning their lawsuit against former players.

Quote
The NCAA said Wednesday it won't allow Electronic Arts Inc. to use its logo and name in video games while it fights a lawsuit that says the governing body owes billions of dollars to former players for allowing their likenesses to be used for free.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on July 18, 2013, 10:11:36 AM
From even a purely logical standpoint, they have a terrible case. Using someone's name forever to sell a product is a damn crime in my book, and I hope they get spit-roasted on the case with absolutely no settlement.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on July 18, 2013, 11:37:01 AM
The SEC is pushing hard to revamp the NCAA.  It wouldn't surprise me, at all, to see the SEC move out of the NCAA eventually. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Rasix on July 18, 2013, 11:39:57 AM
Man, the ESPYs are dumb as hell.  Anyone watch that stupid show?  Has to be the most useless award show next to anything music related.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on July 18, 2013, 11:56:57 AM
No.  I think awards shows are asinine. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on July 18, 2013, 12:08:07 PM
No.  I think awards shows are asinine. 

Award shows for sports are even more asinine in my book. They already give out rings, trophies, etc for actually winning. And they give out awards for individual efforts. Now we have to do it again because your programming sucks in the summer? Pass.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on July 18, 2013, 01:48:25 PM
The only interesting thing to ever come out of any of the ESPY's ever has been Justin Timberlake's speeches and routines. That should tell you how fucking useless those things are.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Nebu on July 18, 2013, 02:31:45 PM
Far too many awards out there.  For every field. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Nebu on July 22, 2013, 09:28:00 AM
I just have two words for today.

"Go Phil!"


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Rasix on July 22, 2013, 09:45:58 AM
Eh, fuck that guy.  Nice round, though.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Nebu on July 22, 2013, 09:59:44 AM
Eh, fuck that guy. 

Phil hate... really?  In all of sport, you could find a million more people worthy of your bile.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on July 22, 2013, 10:51:25 AM
Yeah.  He's pretty bland, really.  Other than being left handed and having a shitty haircut I can't see a reason to hate on him. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on July 22, 2013, 10:58:52 AM
I just have two words for today.

"Go Phil!"

I'd be with you if that guy had any likeability to him at all. Sadly, there really is nothing there to like or loathe, just indifferent.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Nebu on July 22, 2013, 11:08:21 AM
Sadly, there really is nothing there to like or loathe, just indifferent.

He's not Tiger or Sergio.  That's why I like him.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on July 22, 2013, 11:50:58 AM
Well, he's a pretty damned good golfer.  There's that to like about him. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Rasix on July 22, 2013, 11:56:32 AM
I live in Arizona so we get a lot of Phil crap here.  There's his subcutaneous fat comment, his comments on having to make "drastic" changes due to taxes (yeah, pity the guy that hauls in $50-60 mil a year), and the fact that he's pretty much hated by all of his peers.  Apparently his public persona is a complete fabrication (like Tiger pre-meltdown).

Still, he's the second best golfer of his generation, and could have been the best if he didn't finish second in so many majors.  If he'd managed to close out some of those majors he'd be sitting near Tiger's total.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Nebu on July 22, 2013, 12:03:13 PM
I live in Arizona so we get a lot of Phil crap here.  There's his subcutaneous fat comment, his comments on having to make "drastic" changes due to taxes (yeah, pity the guy that hauls in $50-60 mil a year), and the fact that he's pretty much hated by all of his peers.  Apparently his public persona is a complete fabrication (like Tiger pre-meltdown).

Didn't know that.  I used to play a good bit of golf with Tim Herron when I was younger and I've never heard him say anything negative about Phil in recent conversations.  Still, it's nice to look behind the curtain.   


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Rasix on July 22, 2013, 12:05:02 PM
Tim Herron has the best nickname ever.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Nebu on July 22, 2013, 12:06:06 PM
Tim Herron has the best nickname ever.

We called him that when he was 15.... and shooting 67 on the local country club course.  The bastard. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on July 22, 2013, 12:29:35 PM
I worked at East Lake for 3 years. We saw Phil and Tiger in the Fedex Cup quite often in that stretch (back before Tiger got divorced).

Phil's pretty universally hated by people that work in golf, but absolutely beloved by the media and his handlers. The going word is that the family stuff is totally contrived between him and his wife, and that he's been sheltered by the media from his personal life of banging around the nation much like Tiger. The reason it got out for Tiger was the divorce. If Phil's wife ever wanted to get off the gravy train, it would get ugly fast.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Nebu on July 22, 2013, 12:31:32 PM
Sounds like Phil has the same media guys that MJ did in the basketball world.  People loved MJ, but he had quite a rep behind the scenes.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on July 22, 2013, 12:34:10 PM
Let's be fair, Tiger did too. The media wasn't going to touch him because everyone knew what kind of money was on the line. Golf was never more popular than when Tiger and Phil were on the course together head to head. If not for a fateful night with golf clubs, a smashed window, and a pissed of wife, the Tiger stuff never sees the light of day.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Rasix on July 22, 2013, 12:38:35 PM
I worked at East Lake for 3 years.


Hah.  My brother worked at the Phoenician for a few years as a parking valet and bellhop.  Man, the shit he saw.  The media, I'm guessing, has a set of ground rules, because it wouldn't be very difficult to catch just about any athlete cheating on their spouse.  One of his main duties was simply carting around women to various athlete's rooms late at night. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on July 22, 2013, 12:49:27 PM
I'll put it this way. As a regular shlub you weren't allowed FEDEX Cup passes unless you were in the inner circle picked by the club president and caddy master. That meant you understood the deal. Keep up, put up, and shut up. I never got them as a result. I was only allowed to do the pro-am and only for the groups with the B-guys. Never Tiger or Phil or the like.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on July 22, 2013, 12:52:30 PM
I have a pretty strong suspicion that most of the wives of these athletes could give two fucks who their husbands are sleeping with. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on July 22, 2013, 12:53:11 PM
In Phil's case, I think he loves his kids more than his life. The rest, I have no idea.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: WayAbvPar on July 22, 2013, 03:54:38 PM
I am with Rasix on this one. I have always loathed Phil (even though he is a lefty like me!). His 'aw shucks' bullshit public persona just grates on me. Give me Tiger any day. Although I would prefer the pre 2008 Tiger if you I was going to bet on him. His short game was an abomination yesterday.

I will give Phil some credit though- he came out of nowhere, hung a great score, and just deflated everyone in the field. Once that -3 went up Westwood, Mahan, etc knew they were dead.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on July 22, 2013, 05:28:30 PM
If I'm picking winners, I don't want Tiger in the Majors to win. It's a losing bet with no value odds. I'll toss a 20-1 on one of the Euros or Aussie at this point since they've won about 3-4 of the majors in the post-Tiger-tank-era.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Cyrrex on July 23, 2013, 12:54:34 AM
Yeah, Phil can go eat a dick.  He's a big fake.  Why anyone believes that false humility bullshit is beyond me.  You don't become the second best golfer in a generation by being a swell guy, you get it by being an ego-centric maniacal asshole. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on July 23, 2013, 11:15:10 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/8pUkkMT.png)

This was earlier today on my MSNBC page...  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Nebu on July 23, 2013, 11:22:39 AM
Kick the baby! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwLIhM_CHRw)


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on July 25, 2013, 11:17:08 AM
So I wonder what the odds are that Usain Bolt is doping? 

Quote
The world's fastest man stopped short of condemning fellow Jamaican sprinters Asafa Powell and Sherone Simpson or American rival Tyson Gay, whose failed doping tests have left the sport in turmoil ahead of worlds.

He just blows everyone out of the water.  I'm a little skeptical that, in this day and age of doping being rampant, that he's clean. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Nebu on July 25, 2013, 11:48:02 AM
So I wonder what the odds are that Usain Bolt is doping?  

Several people have looked into this, including Muscle Week. (http://www.muscleweek.com/is-usain-bolt-on-steroids)

Their conclusion was that drug testing is a joke and his coach is more of a chemist than a coach.   I agree that drug tests do little more than punish stupid and arrogant people.  


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on July 25, 2013, 11:54:08 AM
They do seem to be catching more people, though.  I've always wondered, considering drug testing, if the problem wasn't more with corruption within the testing system than with incompetence.  There is more than ample evidence to suggest that Lance Armstrong got away with his doping more by tip offs and bribing the officials than by actually passing tests.  Of course he had good doctors too, but the Tour of Switzerland positive result is highly suspect for corruption within the system.


Edit-  Wow.  The video in that link is pretty damning for Bolt. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on July 25, 2013, 12:10:26 PM
if the problem wasn't more with corruption within the testing system than with incompetence.

I believe wholeheartedly that's all it is. It's not hard to catch these people. It's the question of whether or not you WANT to catch them. You think Tennis is trying hard to test Serena Williams even though she's one of the few tennis players ever to be dominant in her 30s, and still serving a ball over 120 mph.

The fact is there's a conflict of interest. One of the only reasons Americans watch women's tennis is because they like watching Serena rather than a no-name foreigner.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on July 25, 2013, 12:21:02 PM
I don't think they care who it is as long as they are bringing in the dough. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Nebu on July 25, 2013, 12:22:45 PM
I don't think they care who it is as long as they are bringing in the dough. 

I wonder if the Lance Armstrong ordeal was just a combination of revenge (for him being an asshole) and a way to bring more media attention to the sport.

Makes sense from a marketing perspective.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on July 25, 2013, 12:34:05 PM
Or maybe he missed a payment? 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Nebu on July 25, 2013, 12:34:29 PM
Or maybe he missed a payment? 

 :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Sir T on July 25, 2013, 12:37:53 PM
Some British guy won the tour de Dope and sailed past the finish line with his SKY team, showing the Rupert Murdoch spirit of fairness.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on July 25, 2013, 12:38:37 PM
There's just no way that Froome and Wiggins are clean. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on July 25, 2013, 01:29:27 PM
As a nearly-40-year-old guy trying to keep up with younger faster dudes in my kendo class (well and also older faster dudes) I have a new appreciation for the temptation to use this stuff. Anyone know a good source in the Bay Area?  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on July 25, 2013, 01:48:14 PM
As a nearly-40-year-old guy trying to keep up with younger faster dudes in my kendo class (well and also older faster dudes) I have a new appreciation for the temptation to use this stuff. Anyone know a good source in the Bay Area?  :why_so_serious:

Christ man, just walk into any Gold's Gym men's locker room out there.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on July 25, 2013, 01:48:58 PM
Yeah.  You'd have to assume that there's a lot of this that gets used basically recreationally. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on July 25, 2013, 01:52:19 PM
I knew caddies when I worked at East Lake that were on HGH so they could do two rounds a day with double-bags.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Sir T on July 25, 2013, 01:55:38 PM
Problem is that without drugs we would be back to the "boring" levels seen in the 50s. Breaking records and stuff sells eyes on TV sets. 10+ seconds sprints don't. Thats also why they basically keep Serena Williams doing it, because she is the only star they have left in Tennis.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on July 25, 2013, 02:00:10 PM
Right now they are so obsessed in the NFL with concussions, and they want to implement all these measures about restricting hits, and penalties, and fines, and player practices.

What they aren't focused on is the other part of the solution. These guys are running into each other at freak speeds with freak weights because they are on freak drug regimens. Cut the drugs, and suddenly you have less force to create brutal hits.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on July 25, 2013, 02:09:33 PM
But cut the brutal hits and you may cut into the interest level of fans....


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Threash on July 25, 2013, 02:12:55 PM
Football is going to end up as a regional sport in our lifetimes either way. Once a few kids start showing problems from playing football the dominos will start tumbling, highschools start getting sued and dropping their programs followed by ivy league schools and you'll end up with football only being played in places like Texas and Florida.  Change is never going to start at the NFL level, to most people those are grown ass men making millions and if they have to take a few bumps on the head so be it.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Nebu on July 25, 2013, 02:15:44 PM
I'm a bit surprised that we haven't seen more deaths/paralyzations in Texas High School football.  That may be what it takes to get any changes to the sport.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on July 25, 2013, 02:17:54 PM
I have patients that are lucky to weigh 200 pounds playing D and O line down here in Texas.  It shocks me to know these kids are going up against some of these 300 pound monsters and living to tell the tale. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Nebu on July 25, 2013, 02:22:18 PM
I have patients that are lucky to weigh 200 pounds playing D and O line down here in Texas.  It shocks me to know these kids are going up against some of these 300 pound monsters and living to tell the tale. 

My senior year of high school (in Minneapolis) I was 200lbs and played safety.  Only the cornerbacks were smaller than me on the starting defense.  I fear to think what a contending team is like in TX.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on July 25, 2013, 02:24:07 PM
I can assure you Georgia football is no safer or better in that regard, and I grew up in a Texas highschool.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on July 25, 2013, 03:05:47 PM
I've got a couple of kids that I treat that are just monsters-  at 250 or so pounds.  They aren't even the big kids.  You just know a fair number of these high school kids are juicing. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Cyrrex on July 26, 2013, 01:24:42 AM
Good article.  Explained a few things I didn't really know, at least about the Olympic testing.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on July 31, 2013, 03:45:51 PM
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/9525249/appellate-court-rules-ea-sports-sam-keller-case

Quote
Electronic Arts lost an appeal Wednesday in a case over its college football video game when a federal court dismissed arguments the company had made in hopes of justifying its use of an athlete's likeness without permission.

The appellate court affirmed a decision of a U.S. District Court that EA Sports could not use a First Amendment defense to protect it against the rights of publicity claims filed by former Arizona State and Nebraska quarterback Sam Keller.

A panel of judges on the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals in California voted 2-1 that EA was not protected by free speech because the company created the the likeness of Keller "in the very setting in which he has achieved renown."

"Given that NCAA football realistically portrays college football players in the context of college football games, the district court was correct in concluding that EA cannot prevail," Judge Jay S. Bybee wrote in the decision.

Closer and closer...


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on July 31, 2013, 03:59:45 PM
 :heart: :heart: :heart:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on July 31, 2013, 04:09:35 PM
That's a big deal. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: cmlancas on August 01, 2013, 08:45:33 PM
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/9525249/appellate-court-rules-ea-sports-sam-keller-case

Quote
Electronic Arts lost an appeal Wednesday in a case over its college football video game when a federal court dismissed arguments the company had made in hopes of justifying its use of an athlete's likeness without permission.

The appellate court affirmed a decision of a U.S. District Court that EA Sports could not use a First Amendment defense to protect it against the rights of publicity claims filed by former Arizona State and Nebraska quarterback Sam Keller.

A panel of judges on the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals in California voted 2-1 that EA was not protected by free speech because the company created the the likeness of Keller "in the very setting in which he has achieved renown."

"Given that NCAA football realistically portrays college football players in the context of college football games, the district court was correct in concluding that EA cannot prevail," Judge Jay S. Bybee wrote in the decision.

Closer and closer...

 :Love_Letters:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: WayAbvPar on August 02, 2013, 05:36:40 PM
Dempsey to Sounders??? (http://blogs.seattletimes.com/soundersfc/2013/08/02/espn-report-sounders-are-finalizing-the-acquisition-of-clint-dempsey/)

(http://mlblogsredstatebluestate.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/randy_marsh_jizz.jpg)
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ39wQmN65eZ8Fd7wrd8KZ8grdIxLQuRL-9Mb9dCfLyNzWhbZGY)


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Hoax on August 02, 2013, 06:43:53 PM
What the fuck is Madrid doing trying to get Bale? They are so full at midfield even if they move CR7 to forward and trade Di Maria and sell Modric back to England AND they play in the xmas tree formation with 5 MF types.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on August 03, 2013, 12:41:26 AM
Real Madrid are trying to make sure they own every big name player on the fucking planet. Hell, they'd be better of spending half the money being mooted for Bale and buying Suarez off of Liverpool than getting yet ANOTHER playmaking midfielder. They already have Ronaldo AND Osil and both are the same type of free-floating scoring creative player as Bale.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Hoax on August 03, 2013, 03:41:28 PM
Suarez has no place on RM, just can't see him playing on a all star side like that. I guess they just can't bring themselves to lodge a $50mil+ bid for some top defender so Bale it is.

If they weren't a Spanish side it sure seems like Rooney would fit decently since he tracks back more than most of their attacking players do. But why not just outbid everyone for Cavani if they knew they were going to pay 80mil on something this offseason?

Arsenal going after Suarez is puzzling to me as well, after all these years of not buying players at the peak of their hype they are buying one who is also a total shithead?


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on August 04, 2013, 12:30:48 AM
Suarez has no place on RM, just can't see him playing on a all star side like that. I guess they just can't bring themselves to lodge a $50mil+ bid for some top defender so Bale it is.

How would one of the world's top strikers and creative players NOT fit on Real Madrid now that they got rid of Higuain? Suarez can play up top or floating behind another main striker, and is a better fit for that side than Bale would be - so long as nobody slathers BBQ sauce on the opposing defenders.

Quote
Arsenal going after Suarez is puzzling to me as well, after all these years of not buying players at the peak of their hype they are buying one who is also a total shithead?

This is the same Arsenal side that doesn't have a striker worth a shit since they let Van Persie go? Again, why wouldn't they want a guy who scored 30 goals despite missing the last few games? Yes, he's a shithead, but he's a shithead who scores goals and creates chances for other players. The real question there is why Arsenal thinks Liverpool would sell to them?


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: WayAbvPar on August 05, 2013, 01:36:24 PM
Interesting article (http://blogs.seattletimes.com/soundersfc/2013/08/05/si-com-explains-in-full-detail-how-clint-dempsey-came-to-seattle/) about how the Dempsey signing came about. I didn't realize the league was so heavily involved. Which makes the butthurt strong in non-Seattle MLS cities  :grin:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on August 05, 2013, 01:38:47 PM
I'm not sure the interest level is enough for there to be any butt hurt involved.  This was an interesting move by Dempsey though.  It could be quite lucrative for him if he plays his cards right.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Hoax on August 05, 2013, 09:28:47 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KeG_i8CWE8


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on August 05, 2013, 09:47:56 PM
"How many countries are in this country?"

Win.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on August 08, 2013, 10:53:40 AM
Huh.  This is an interesting chart (http://money.cnn.com/interactive/economy/golf-major-money/?hpt=hp_c4) showing how much the biggest names in golf have earned in their major wins over their careers. 

I think it's a good indication of how money has infested our lives to see that Nicklaus earned $650k for his major victories, total, while Tiger Woods has earned over $14 million. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on August 08, 2013, 12:38:00 PM
Does that take into consideration rate of inflation?


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on August 08, 2013, 12:42:36 PM
Walter Hagen was the guy who made all that possible. He started the revolution of golf as a money-maker, instead of just an amateur pursuit. He was famous for saying, "I don't want to be a millionaire, I just want to live like one." and also, "My game was my business and as a business it demanded constant playing in the championship bracket, for a current title was my selling commodity."

I think too many pros today just want to be millionaires, and actually winning isn't that important to them as finishing high with good endorsements.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on August 08, 2013, 01:29:10 PM
Walter Hagen was the guy who made all that possible. He started the revolution of golf as a money-maker, instead of just an amateur pursuit. He was famous for saying, "I don't want to be a millionaire, I just want to live like one." and also, "My game was my business and as a business it demanded constant playing in the championship bracket, for a current title was my selling commodity."

I think too many pros today just want to be millionaires, and actually winning isn't that important to them as finishing high with good endorsements.

I think this is probably in evidence in all walks of life, these days.  Bankers don't want to be good bankers any more, they just want to be rich.  Doctors don't want to be good doctors any more, they just want to be rich.  It's an epidemic of greed. 


Does that take into consideration rate of inflation?

Clearly no.  


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on November 05, 2013, 02:04:35 PM
http://www.youtube.com/v/NH-Z3WFVxUw (http://www.youtube.com/v/NH-Z3WFVxUw)

This is some crazy shit, here.   :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: shiznitz on November 05, 2013, 02:32:59 PM

I think too many pros today just want to be millionaires, and actually winning isn't that important to them as finishing high with good endorsements.

One needs to win tournaments to get good endorsements.

I am stunned that Phil M has earned 10x in 5 wins what Jack earned in 18 wins.  I didn't realize how lame the purses were 30 years ago.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on November 05, 2013, 02:39:22 PM
Why do you think Jack Nicklaus put his name on anything and everything?


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on March 13, 2014, 06:47:52 PM
This is pretty awesome:

https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/world-of-sport/surfer-pulls-off-trick-hailed-best-sport-seen-113614594.html


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: WayAbvPar on March 13, 2014, 07:14:56 PM
This is pretty awesome:

https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/world-of-sport/surfer-pulls-off-trick-hailed-best-sport-seen-113614594.html

Holy shit that is pretty amazing.

Fox Sports 1 had a piece on the Mavericks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mavericks,_California) and the Invitational there earlier this week...those guys are fucking INSANE. 50 foot waves and great white sharks? Yeah, I think I will pass.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Shannow on March 14, 2014, 06:36:09 AM
pfft used to pull off those in California games all the time.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ginaz on July 02, 2014, 12:07:22 PM
Not that I watch tennis much, but I'm glad to see Eugenie Bouchard make it to the Wimbledon semi finals.  Partly because she's Canadian, and partly because I  :heart: her.  She is absolutely beautiful.  Like Anna Kournikova but with an actual tennis game.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ginaz on July 05, 2014, 03:28:50 PM
Well, Eugenie Bouchard lost in the Wimbledon final today and she wasn't really in it at all.  Still, she is only 20 and with lack of any real dominating female tennis players these days, I think its only a matter of time before she wins a Grand Slam.  As for Milos Raonic, I think he's peaked.  Roger Federer exposed him as the one dimensional player he is when he dismantled Raonic in the semis.  Raonic probably has the best serve in the history of tennis but the rest of his game is average at best, plus he's not exactly the most fleet of foot.  And unlike the women, the men's side still has a lot of stars that will stop him almost every time.  Raonic is a top 10 player, but he'll never go much higher than #5 with Federer, Nadal, Murray and Djokovic in his way.

Edit: It looks like another Canadian, Vasek Pospisil, won Wimbledon's mens doubles championship today with his US partner.  So all and all, not a bad showing this year for Canadian tennis.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: WayAbvPar on July 18, 2014, 03:11:20 PM
People named Bubba are retards? (http://www.sbnation.com/golf/2014/7/18/5914899/bubba-watson-doesnt-know-a-beatle-british-open-liverpool)

That is the only explanation I can come up with. It is not like he is 11 years old, or lives somewhere in the Amazon without contact with society. How do people get through life being this self-involved and incurious? I just don't get it.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on July 18, 2014, 03:14:08 PM
Don't quiz athletes. It's just mean.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: WayAbvPar on July 18, 2014, 03:23:08 PM
The guy is 35 fucking years old. I thought he was at least in his twenties. Now he has even less of an excuse.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ginaz on July 19, 2014, 02:26:37 PM
People named Bubba are retards? (http://www.sbnation.com/golf/2014/7/18/5914899/bubba-watson-doesnt-know-a-beatle-british-open-liverpool)

That is the only explanation I can come up with. It is not like he is 11 years old, or lives somewhere in the Amazon without contact with society. How do people get through life being this self-involved and incurious? I just don't get it.

Maybe because the Beatles aren't relevant to people under 60?  I could probably name them all (maybe not George Harrison, everyone forgets about him) but I can't name more than 3 or 4 of their songs.  I've always thought the Beatles were way over rated and not nearly as good as they're made out to be.  The Rolling Stones, and even Elvis, were much better than the Beatles imo.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Cyrrex on July 19, 2014, 03:07:21 PM
No, he is right.  I agree that the Beatles are hugely overrated, and I personally could care less about any of their music.  But the point is more one of how it is possible to live on the planet without somehow not being exposed to the information.  It indicates a shocking lack of either exposure or awareness.  Or perhaps someone who is just ridiculously self-involved, which an elite athlete might tend to be.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Nebu on July 19, 2014, 04:00:41 PM
People that think the Beatles are overrated tend to lack an understanding of their role in music history and, for that matter, have never heard of George Martin.  Let me guess, you think the Beach Boys are overrated too.  

You don't have to like their music to appreciate their role in Rock and the music industry.  Their importance can't be overstated.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Merusk on July 19, 2014, 05:32:10 PM
You can know who the Beatles are without knowing the group members names.

I have no idea who the other members of Van Halen are beyond Eddie, "His brother" and Dave/ Sammy or the individual names of the Four Topps or The Supremes.  Doesn't mean I'm not aware of them or their tunes, just that I never cared to look them up. 

Saying "OMG YOU DON"T KNOW THE BEATLES NAMES, YOU'RE A MORON" is exceptionally dumb. You don't know his life, why assume it's universal knowledge? I went to college with a guy whose parents didn't let him listen to anything but Classical music until he went to college. I imagine he couldn't name a single Beatle either, as he found only Rush to be to his liking.

Quick, what are the names of Miles' Davis' Quinet?  Why are you so racist as to not know?

Why swallow such a bullshit non-story?


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ginaz on July 19, 2014, 06:46:48 PM
People that think the Beatles are overrated tend to lack an understanding of their role in music history and, for that matter, have never heard of George Martin.  Let me guess, you think the Beach Boys are overrated too.  

You don't have to like their music to appreciate their role in Rock and the music industry.  Their importance can't be overstated.

I know they're "historically important", I just don't understand why.  The 1972 Summit Series is "historically important" here in Canada and for almost the same reasons (because a lot of old people wax nostalgic for it and can't let go of their youth but it was a glorified exhibition series with a bunch of washed up, out of shape, unmotivated NHL players).  I can listen to a number of Rolling Stones songs on the radio today and enjoy them (I always crank up Satisfaction and Paint it Black) while the Beatles...if there's nothing else playing, ok, I'll listen to them but I usually end up changing the channel.  For many people, the Beatles WERE the 60's, and as we've all been told a million times already, the 60's was the most awesome decade of all time and nothing ever will compare so if the Beatles were the best band of the 60's then that means they were the best band of all time ever. :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on July 19, 2014, 07:46:53 PM
The Beatles were the boy band of the '60's. They got better when they got on drugs, but their music before then is mostly pop. It just so happens they came at the right time when American rock/pop music had gotten fucking stale as week old bread. Elvis wasn't putting out a lot of music, most of the early rockers were dealing with a lot of self-inflicted bullshit and Pat Boone was the main man on radio. The Beatles came in with a very fresh sounding form of blues-y rock but again, it wasn't anything that would have been special five years earlier in America. Right place, right time. It wasn't until they started experimenting with different recording techniques and imagery that they really made anything worth remembering. McCartney may be one of the world's best writers of pop songs but the songs are mostly that - just kind of empty pop tunes with fantastic hooks and singable chorus.

A 35-year old man not being able to name them at least one of them though? Come out of your cave.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Nebu on July 19, 2014, 08:07:40 PM
A few Beatle innovations/influences

1. The music video
2. Concept albums
3. Stadium concerts
4. Escaping the record industry (Apple records)
5. The Beatles (and their recording engineers) either pioneered or popularized Artificial Double Tracking (ADT), back masking, tuned feedback, spliced audio loops, distortion, equalization, stereo effects, multi-tracking (overdubbing), compression, phase shifting, and innovative “microphoning".
6. Lyrics on the album cover/sleeve
7. The popularity of FM radio


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ginaz on July 19, 2014, 08:39:55 PM
A few Beatle innovations/influences

1. The music video
2. Concept albums
3. Stadium concerts
4. Escaping the record industry (Apple records)
5. The Beatles (and their recording engineers) either pioneered or popularized Artificial Double Tracking (ADT), back masking, tuned feedback, spliced audio loops, distortion, equalization, stereo effects, multi-tracking (overdubbing), compression, phase shifting, and innovative “microphoning".
6. Lyrics on the album cover/sleeve
7. The popularity of FM radio

And all that wouldn't have mattered if Elvis had still been making music instead of shitty movies or Jerry Lee Lewis hadn't married his 13 year old cousin.  The Beatles were good.  No doubt about it.  However, they're not the be all and end all of rock and roll like many claim they are.  The Rolling Stones music is much more inter-generational than Beatles ever were.  Hell, even though they didn't form until 1969, Black Sabbath is a better band with arguably just as much influence in music as the Beatles.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Nebu on July 19, 2014, 08:44:02 PM
And all that wouldn't have mattered if Elvis had still been making music instead of shitty movies or Jerry Lee Lewis hadn't married his 13 year old cousin.  The Beatles were good.  No doubt about it.  However, they're not the be all and end all of rock and roll like many claim they are.  The Rolling Stones music is much more inter-generational than Beatles ever were.  Hell, even though they didn't form until 1969, Black Sabbath is a better band with arguably just as much influence in music as the Beatles.

The Beatles (and their recording engineers) either pioneered or popularized Artificial Double Tracking (ADT), back masking, tuned feedback, spliced audio loops, distortion, equalization, stereo effects, multi-tracking (overdubbing), compression, phase shifting, and innovative “microphoning".

That point... right there... changed recording forever.  No more Phil Specter "Wall of Sound".  No more "Two mics live". Do you have any idea how important this change alone was?  It doesn't matter if you like their music.  It's about how they changed the music industry.  Elvis didn't do that... nor did Sabbath.    


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Sir T on July 19, 2014, 10:13:25 PM
After watching this video you will understand what the Beatles could have been if they had been world class musicians instead of world class entertainers with a massive hype machine. Especially after 3:20 or so.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SFNW5F8K9Y (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SFNW5F8K9Y)


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on July 20, 2014, 01:56:58 AM
There is some amazingly dumb stuff being written in this threa suddenly. Listen to Nebu, I don't have time to write a dissertation this weekend.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Cyrrex on July 20, 2014, 05:36:12 AM
The amount of butt-hurt going on there is...well, not surprising.  It is possible to both recognize the fact that the Beatles were a huge commercial success with a major impact on the industry, AND ALSO have the opinion that most of the music they created was utter shite.  The two things are not mutually exclusive.  It is not surprising that there are many people in this day and age that dislike the Beatles.  It seems like this should be something rational people could agree on.

That said, I still don't see how a person who hasn't lived in a cave for the last 30 to 40 years doesn't know at least two names from the group.  I submit that there must be something abnormal about such a person.  Sheltered.  Enormously self-absorbed.  Low intelligence.  Hugely incurious.  Bubba Watson could easily be all of those things.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Merusk on July 20, 2014, 09:50:19 AM
After watching this video you will understand what the Beatles could have been if they had been world class musicians instead of world class entertainers with a massive hype machine. Especially after 3:20 or so.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SFNW5F8K9Y (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SFNW5F8K9Y)

Some days I forget just how goddamn awesome Prince is at playing. Thanks for the reminder.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on July 20, 2014, 11:05:55 AM
Interesting turn in random sports.

I hate the Eagles. So there.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Phildo on July 21, 2014, 07:32:00 AM
Geoff Emerick, the Beatles' recording engineer, has a book about his time with the band (http://www.amazon.com/Here-There-Everywhere-Recording-Beatles/dp/1592402690/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1405945727&sr=8-1&keywords=geoff+emerick+here+there+and+everywhere&dpPl=1).  I highly recommend it.

Also, the quote "I hate the fucking Eagles, man" is what convinced the Rolling Stones' former manager to let the Coen Brothers have the rights to one of their songs for The Big Lebowski.  See?  It's all connected.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ceryse on July 28, 2014, 05:17:21 PM
I don't get why not knowing the names of some guys in an old band is somehow a negative or indicative of stupidity or being self centered. I don't have a clue as to the names of the Beatles. If you showed me a picture of bands, even just of them on the street walking around, I could maybe correctly pick out the Beatles. Outside of one or two songs I couldn't even name their songs. But I could generally pick out a song I overheard as being by the Beatles. I'm also aware of their historically importance.

I just don't give a shit about the Beatles. They are irrelevant to my life. Why should I know their names? I've got more important shit to remember/care about.

Bubba Watson may be everything he's been called for all I know, but his not being able to name a Beatle is not even remotely evidence of such.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on July 28, 2014, 05:35:17 PM
It's not important, and Bubba doesn't have to know who they are to be a successful person. So yes, it's a totally irrelevant story used by people to pick on a guy because he's successful.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on July 28, 2014, 05:37:39 PM
So yes, it's a totally irrelevant story used by people to pick on a guy because he's successful.

Eh, that's a stretch. It's the same argument Simond used when he said you were criticizing Metzen out of jealousy.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on July 28, 2014, 05:44:08 PM
The whole thing was made so the guys would look dumb. That was the point of the video. ESPN doing it's thing to see if they can catch the multi-millionaires looking stupid for not knowing some trivia. If they all answer correctly, ESPN never even releases the thing, it gets scrapped as a bad idea, and they move on.

I just think the point of the thing was a setup.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Goumindong on July 28, 2014, 11:32:50 PM
After watching this video you will understand what the Beatles could have been if they had been world class musicians instead of world class entertainers with a massive hype machine. Especially after 3:20 or so.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SFNW5F8K9Y (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SFNW5F8K9Y)
I don't understand what in that video is supposed to convince me that the Beatles were not world class musicians. Because they wrote some songs that didn't have a wailing guitar solo in them?


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on August 09, 2014, 11:07:52 PM
Twitter is basically saying that Tony Stewart intentionally struck someone in a smaller race tonight after the driver got out of his car, and that the driver may be dead.

I have no way of confirming anything other than a driver was hit and he is hurt, but if even half of that is true it's going to be a total disaster.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Abagadro on August 10, 2014, 03:51:00 AM
Yep. The driver, Ward, is dead. 20 year old stupidly got out of hit car to gesticulate at Smoke for running him into the wall. Stewart, who is generally a cock and why the fuck is he still running sprint cars after last year's crash, gunned it to show the "punk" what for and fishtailed into him.  Complete debacle and a tragic result.  Guy should probably be prosecuted for involuntary manslaughter but much money will probably be exchanged and it will be swept under.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Samprimary on August 10, 2014, 04:00:59 AM
man, watching the video of that accident shows that the dead guy was playing chicken with racecars and had jumped out of his car and well into the middle of the racetrack to confront Stewart, probably because he was fucking furious

Stewart may have gunned the engine to spook the kid or spray dirt on him but the guy he hit had literally jumped into the middle of the racetrack and I guess Stewart drifted too hard and caught the guy with a tire.

which is all it took. from the video I saw this tumbled him so hard that i would be extremely surprised if he wasn't pretty much immediately dead


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on August 10, 2014, 07:59:51 AM
No reason for any of that. Tony at that point was under caution which means slow the fuck down and let the maintenance crews get on the track and NOT be run over while doing their job. Granted, this Ward guy should have no been a asshat and been walking around the track; but no way in hell should Tony have even been close to him or been maintaining speed with a guy on the track. The two cars that passed up Ward had no trouble avoiding him... Sad sad sad.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on August 10, 2014, 10:51:42 AM
After reviewing things, I'm with Ab, Stewart should absolutely be prosecuted for involuntary manslaughter. Whether or not the kid was in the track isn't really relevant in my mind considering that the other drivers had zero problem avoiding him, it was under caution, and Stewart accelerated the vehicle.

I'm not sure what way it goes legally, but I think there's a component of negligence involved here.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: croaker69 on August 10, 2014, 11:14:32 AM
From what I've read running onto the track and gesticulating at the driver who wrecked you is a common occurrence and Stewart has done the same many times.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on August 10, 2014, 09:46:22 PM
It's utterly fuckstupid to do, of course, and now we have one dead idiot.  :uhrr:

After seeing the video, I agree with both Ab and the Monkey. Stewart should probably be prosecuted for that. Other drivers had no problems avoiding the raging idiot in the track.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on August 10, 2014, 11:01:27 PM
The cops are already saying they aren't pressing criminal charges. Color me shocked that the podunk county cops aren't willing to prosecute one of the biggest racers in the country.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Cyrrex on August 11, 2014, 12:49:27 AM
I saw the video.  Or a video.

On the one hand, while the other drivers are able to pass by, the dude continues to move to the center of the track so in theory it might have been more difficult for Stewart to get by without hitting him.  I also don't see or hear anything that indicates that Stewart gunned it and made the backend jump out....I mean, the video doesn't even show Stewart's car until pretty much the moment of impact.  I can't guess what is happening in the second or two before that, and I also can't tell if he is driving faster than anyone else.  The car isn't in the frame long enough to tell.

Do I find it plausible that Stewart gunned his engine and deliberately tried to spray him with dirt or just scare him in general?  Absolutely.  It is exactly the kind of dick move you come to expect from these guys.  Do I think that, if there is better video or eyewitness evidence that it even happened, that his back end might have totally innocently jumped out and struck the guy?  Not remotely.  This is a decorated professional racer on a dirt track in a sprint car, the whole idea of which requires exquisitely controlled skidding around the track at high speed.  Back-end skidding, drifting, whatever, is exactly what these guys are good at.  No way did it just slip out.  That is, if it even happened at all.

I am not convinced based on what I saw, and I was sort of expecting to be.  Is there more than one video?  From the very short time I see Stewart's care in the shot, it looks more to me that his engine noises might change and his back end might jump is because of the impact, not necessarily happening prior to.

Curious as to what you guys are seeing, because it isn't evident to me.  Pretty creepy to watch.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Abagadro on August 11, 2014, 01:45:13 AM
The cops are already saying they aren't pressing criminal charges. Color me shocked that the podunk county cops aren't willing to prosecute one of the biggest racers in the country.

Cops don't make that decision, prosecutors do.  They are likely gathering evidence and are going to look at it when they get into the office tomorrow. I don't expect any criminal charges, but you never know. There may be some damning video out there that hasn't made it out yet.  As of now you have an ambiguous video and Stewart's statement (which is likely self-exculpatory). I have my own opinion based upon not much more than the guy's personality but that's about it.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Cyrrex on August 11, 2014, 01:59:24 AM
Another point being made is the darkness of the track in general, and the dark firesuit and helmet Ward was wearing.  I think proving criminal charges is going to be really hard, unless clearer evidence shows up.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Goumindong on August 11, 2014, 02:24:55 PM
Another point being made is the darkness of the track in general, and the dark firesuit and helmet Ward was wearing.  I think proving criminal charges is going to be really hard, unless clearer evidence shows up.

He accelerated before and after hitting him. If there was no damaging intent then the proper action is to brake in both situations. At the very least it's involuntary manslaughter since his actions constitute reckless disregard for life. At the most it's murder 2. Frankly looking at the video and knowing Tony's history with losing his temper I would say murder 2.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on August 11, 2014, 02:59:00 PM
I don't think they can prove murder. I think from what I'm hearing from legal beagles on sports stations that involuntary manslaughter should absolutely be on the table, and possibly vehicular homicide.

The acceleration under caution for me is a clear case of a guy driving recklessly. The mitigating factor will be the guy on the track in my mind. However, if I was arguing the case, how often are guys on a track clearing up a wreck in NASCAR races? All the time. And yet nobody gets sideswiped to death under a caution flag.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Goumindong on August 11, 2014, 03:30:05 PM
I don't think they can prove murder. I think from what I'm hearing from legal beagles on sports stations that involuntary manslaughter should absolutely be on the table, and possibly vehicular homicide.

The acceleration under caution for me is a clear case of a guy driving recklessly. The mitigating factor will be the guy on the track in my mind. However, if I was arguing the case, how often are guys on a track clearing up a wreck in NASCAR races? All the time. And yet nobody gets sideswiped to death under a caution flag.

As far as I can tell murder two could be shown pretty easy. Basically it's reckless to accelerate under caution. It's intent to accelerate next to the guy, even if he only means to scare him. Kinda like how you can't shoot a person then say you only meant to scare them, it's not that people might not believe you it's that scaring them is malicious intent. The question comes down to three issues. One does a reasonable person accelerate there? If no it's at least involuntary manslaughter. Did Stewart have malicious intent of any sort? If yes go to the next question. If no, involuntary manslaughter. Does a reasonable person gets mad enough to murder there? if no it's murder two if yes it's voluntary manslaughter.

But it's going to  be hard to claim no intent when he accelerated through him. Unless he can convince a jury he didn't see him (but then why is he accelerating?). Even if he didn't intent to hit him that isn't a defense for murder 2, he intended to cause harm and ended up killing him.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ginaz on August 11, 2014, 06:31:14 PM
Whatever the legal outcome, this chucklefuck should never be allowed on a race track ever again.

Edit: Oh, look at this.  He needed anger management.  Must have been seen by Charlie Sheen for how well it worked. :oh_i_see:

"NASCAR officials fined Stewart $10,000 and ordered him to get anger management counseling for hitting a photographer after a bad race at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway in 2002."
http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/11/showbiz/tony-stewart-profile/index.html?hpt=hp_t2


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on August 11, 2014, 07:09:48 PM
They almost raced him this weekend. NASCAR was totally tone deaf to the issue until somebody over there actually realized what a fuckup that would be.

They should suspend him pending an investigation. That's the RIGHT thing to do. What they'll actually do? Pay lip service to the kid's family, then put him right back out there since he's a huge draw.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Trippy on September 24, 2014, 06:16:57 PM
Tony Stewart not charged by grand jury (http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nascar-from-the-marbles/tony-stewart-not-charged-by-grand-jury-in-death-of-kevin-ward-jr-190047656.html)
Quote
no evidence of "aberrational" driving from Stewart before he hit Ward and that it appeared Stewart was driving in a straight line until he hit Ward


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on September 24, 2014, 07:27:25 PM
The whole thing comes off as a smear job on Ward by saying he had pot in his system. I mean the fuck? They do a tox screen on the dead guy but not his killer?

NASCAR paid some people off. They admit he's driving in a straight line until he veers to hit Ward at the end, but that's not good enough for indictment? Ridiculous. I hope the family takes his ass to the cleaners. He's getting away with killing that kid.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Abagadro on September 24, 2014, 07:34:14 PM
Well, they said he veered AFTER he hit him, not that he 'veers to hit Ward.'  Let's not misrepresent things.   Not taking a blood sample from Stewart after the accident was a pretty big mistake though.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: K9 on November 13, 2014, 06:48:39 PM
FIFA: We had a look at whether there had been any ethics violations during the bidding processes for the 2018 and 2022 world cups, and found that the winners Russia and Qatar are completely innocent of any corruption. By the way though England and Australia did try to bribe some of our guys, so fuck them, right? (http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/nov/13/fifa-report-alleged-corruption-qatar-2022-world-cup)

*hands out 42 pages of a 430 page report*

English FA: Like fuck we're corrupt, you guys are full of shit

Russia: Oh cool. By the way, all the relevant e-mails you asked for were lost when our 'rented' laptops had their harddrives wiped. Sorry about that. It's great that you managed to do the investigation without them

*Qatar resumes building stadiums using Bangladeshi slave labour*

Michael Garcia: Hi, I'm the guy who actually wrote the 430 page report and your 42 page summary is full of shit, what's the deal FIFA?

*FIFA shuffles feet*

***

So the FA gets slated for throwing one of the voting dudes a £35000 dinner, but the £1.8 million the Qataris threw at Brazil (just one of their many varied splashes) is all cool?

Fuck FIFA, what a useless bunch of self-serving cunts.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Shannow on November 13, 2014, 07:36:38 PM
Yup. Question is will anything be done?

Also we do have a soccer thread..


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on November 13, 2014, 07:49:22 PM
Yup. Question is will anything be done?

Also we do have a soccer thread..

If the USA/UK/Australia actually care? Yeah.

I don't think so though.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on November 13, 2014, 09:02:10 PM
No, not shit will be done. FIFA can investigate its member conferences for ethics violations, then ignore any ethics violations because fuck it.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Megrim on November 23, 2014, 03:36:38 AM
So I went to a roller derby event this weekend. Is it a thing elsewhere too?


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: WayAbvPar on November 23, 2014, 04:07:40 AM
I work with someone who does it, but I have never been to a match or whatever they are called.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on November 23, 2014, 03:24:10 PM
I follow a young woman on Google+ who does roller derby. Mason Dixon Roller Vixens or something like that... She posts pics every now and then. Seems interesting in a way.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on February 24, 2015, 12:50:19 PM
So now we have a Qatar world cup in the winter? WTF soccer?


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: WayAbvPar on February 24, 2015, 12:52:34 PM
This makes it 25% more likely to actually happen. I still think it is going to get shifted to a country with the infrastructure to handle it before then.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Trippy on February 24, 2015, 12:52:56 PM
Better than playing in an average Summer temperature of 106 degrees.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on March 16, 2015, 01:46:04 PM
Tourney time! If Kentucky loses, about half the nation will be shocked and their brackets done.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: WayAbvPar on March 19, 2015, 03:40:04 PM
For Fuck's Snakes (http://deadspin.com/life-aint-easy-for-a-basketball-player-named-fuck-1692405122)

Article is amusing, comments are gold.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on March 20, 2015, 01:55:06 PM
Tourney time! If Kentucky loses, about half the nation will be shocked and their brackets done.

Something like 99% of brackets were busted after *two games* this time.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on March 20, 2015, 02:41:51 PM
Tourney time! If Kentucky loses, about half the nation will be shocked and their brackets done.

Something like 99% of brackets were busted after *two games* this time.

That's why these things are won by people who pick based on colors.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: WayAbvPar on March 20, 2015, 03:55:01 PM
Hey now, Kentucky stopped doing that in the 60s!


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on March 20, 2015, 04:30:43 PM
Well, they stopped TELLING people they did it.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Abagadro on March 22, 2015, 12:31:44 AM
Was watching the Utes gymnasts in the Pac-12 championship (ya, so what, you wanna fight about it?).  Senior on her final routine on the floor ruptures her Achilles on a take off and breaks both feet on the landing.  They helpfully showed it in slo-mo. Was Theismann levels of brain scarring.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Chimpy on March 22, 2015, 08:24:08 AM
That's God punishing you for watching gymnastics.  :drillf:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: WayAbvPar on March 22, 2015, 05:09:11 PM
Was watching the Utes gymnasts in the Pac-12 championship (ya, so what, you wanna fight about it?).  Senior on her final routine on the floor ruptures her Achilles on a take off and breaks both feet on the landing.  They helpfully showed it in slo-mo. Was Theismann levels of brain scarring.

This is why you are supposed to keep your eyes on the butts at all times.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on March 23, 2015, 08:40:36 AM
Sort of sad how little the tournament generates talk lately. I remember when it used to be a full thread. Now we barely care enough to banter about upsets in random sports.

Which is really a statement on how bad the sport is to watch now. After watching NBA, the talent level decrease and offensive decrease in college basketball over the last decade is just silly.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: WayAbvPar on March 23, 2015, 12:10:30 PM
This used to be my favorite time of year. One and done ruling destroying any continuity (and thus any interesting rivalries/storylines) coupled with the huge downswing in the quality of UW's teams has driven me to give exactly zero fucks about the tournament. I literally have not watched a second, which makes me sad.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on March 24, 2015, 02:55:03 PM
Nobody I knew was doing any sort of bracket pool, so my general disinterest in college athletics and basketball took over.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: WayAbvPar on March 24, 2015, 03:41:35 PM
My wife is in a couple of pools at work. She is one of 4 people left with an intact Final Four still  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Shannow on March 27, 2015, 10:30:29 AM
Screw Basketball, we are doing a Frozen Four pool here at work. 3 MA boys and an Australian, go figure.

MN State Mankato baby!


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Rasix on March 27, 2015, 11:50:29 AM
On we go.  Now to see if we can beat the best squad of white guys the college basketball world can offer.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on March 28, 2015, 08:19:21 PM
If I'm an Arizona fan I'm furious about the way that game ended. Dumb. Dumb. Dumb.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Shannow on March 29, 2015, 04:25:00 PM
Australia wins the Cricket World Cup with a slaughter of nz in the final.  With this, and the win in in the Asia cup we just need to win the Rugby World Cup to complete the trifecta in sports Americans don't care about  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: WayAbvPar on March 30, 2015, 11:22:29 AM
Warning: Extremely sandy vagina suspected (http://deadspin.com/aaron-rodgers-shuts-down-manbaby-reporter-1694493911)

I mostly don't give a fuck about Aaron Rodgers, but good for him. God what a whiny maggot. If that guy worked for my media outlet he would lose his Twitter privileges for a few centuries.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on March 30, 2015, 11:52:58 AM
What a fucking douchenozzle.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on March 30, 2015, 11:55:00 AM
Warning: Extremely sandy vagina suspected (http://deadspin.com/aaron-rodgers-shuts-down-manbaby-reporter-1694493911)

I mostly don't give a fuck about Aaron Rodgers, but good for him. God what a whiny maggot. If that guy worked for my media outlet he would lose his Twitter privileges for a few centuries.

Win a superbowl for your team in the home state and yeah...you should get special treatment. It is earned at that point. Nerdrage of that reporter is kinda precious.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on March 30, 2015, 12:38:05 PM
I say this because I know and have worked with several credentialed sports reporters before, they are the most stubborn, entitled, dismissive people on the planet. More than athletes because in most cases the athletes have a skill. Sports reporters get upset the second a potential interviewee doesn't answer the questions they have. Here's some of my favorite responses:

"Hey we have a job to do here too."
"You, the fans, lose out when we don't get our questions answered."
"If you let teams control the message, you'll never get anything interesting."
"Be professional, answer the questions and we will be professional too."
"Being on the side of the media can really help your organization in times of trouble."

All of that is bullshit. All of it. Sports reporters don't give a damn about the fans, they think you are all beer-swilling morons ready to fire somebody at the drop of a hat. They don't really care about getting good answers either, because they will run with whatever. What they do care about is their butt-hurt feelings, and they feel they deserve to have their questions answered no matter how stupid. In times of need, they will pile on like everyone else. They don't protect people anymore, and they are looking for reasons to stir shit up. Controversy sells eyeballs and that's all the new generation of sports writers care about. They want page-views and ad views. Period.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on March 30, 2015, 01:23:05 PM
Quote
But I don't wear red.

 :heart:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on March 30, 2015, 02:22:26 PM
Quote
But I don't wear red.

 :heart:

I take that to be a Cal alum's dig at Stanford?


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Trippy on March 30, 2015, 04:36:35 PM
No. Stanford is cardinal (the color, not the bird). Badgers is Badger red.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on March 30, 2015, 04:37:46 PM
 :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on March 30, 2015, 05:04:01 PM
The fact it's remotely confusing shows exactly how much the nation pays attention to that barn-burner rivalry.

 :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Trippy on March 30, 2015, 05:11:06 PM
One half of the rivalry doesn't care either.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on March 30, 2015, 05:15:05 PM
I had to look up the last time Cal was really good and it was 2006.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on March 30, 2015, 05:17:19 PM
The rivalry is at its best when both teams are shitty, IMO. That way neither side has anything to think about except beating each other.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Trippy on March 30, 2015, 05:17:44 PM
That's true.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on March 30, 2015, 05:28:25 PM
Ah, like the old school saints and falcons rivalry. So awful that's all you can cling to


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: WayAbvPar on March 30, 2015, 05:42:38 PM
Ah, like the old school saints and falcons rivalry. So awful that's all you can cling to

What? I can't hear you over all this noise in the Georgia Dome.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on March 31, 2015, 07:57:42 AM
Don't worry we fired the guy that was solely responsible for that. After all I'm sure it was completely his idea and that none of the higer ups knew about it, and he moved all the equipment himself while signing off on the permissions.

The Falcons organization is such a lying bunch of fuckers. Them trying to sell this sinking Titantic of a stadium is going to ruin the team for the next 5 years minimum. No coach worth a damn was going to take this job.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on March 31, 2015, 12:56:34 PM
Unless Arthur Blank owns stake in the construction companies, I cannot for the life of me understand what he gains by building an entirely new fucking stadium. Granted, he got taxpayer money to fund part of it, but still... is the revenue on a stadium that isn't even 30 years old that much less than what there would be from a new stadium?


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on March 31, 2015, 01:43:57 PM
Unless Arthur Blank owns stake in the construction companies, I cannot for the life of me understand what he gains by building an entirely new fucking stadium. Granted, he got taxpayer money to fund part of it, but still... is the revenue on a stadium that isn't even 30 years old that much less than what there would be from a new stadium?

He gains a better deal from the owners of the stadium, the Georgia World Congress Center Authority. You see, Arthur Blank isn't building one for himself. He's building it because the GWCCA wanted a newer, better building to host events, and the only way they were going to get that done was by working with the Falcons to cram it down the throats of the public. Atlanta has been really converting itself into a destination event town for the last decade, and this is part of the city government's power play to make even more tourism and convention center shit happen in Atlanta.

So they cut Arthur a deal, they would cover $600M in public funding, Blank would cover the approximately $600M in costs plus any overruns. That would come in combination of the NFL backed loans for new stadiums, and PSL sales. Now what does Arthur gain from the new building? He controls all the operations and revenues for everything. He controls all the expenses too, but essentially he'll get ALL the money for any event that happens in that building. Right now he just gets money for Falcons events, and he didn't control all the suites. The new building is him controlling everything and then paying the GWCCA a yearly fee, which they do nothing for. Basically it shifts the entire burden of managing the building to the Falcons, and it shifts all the upside of profit to Arthur Blank.

That means he'll get tickets, advertising, promotional, events, food and beverage, rental, and naming rights income.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on March 31, 2015, 02:05:21 PM
Jesus fucking Christ... that may actually be the shittiest deal for the people of Atlanta and the state of Georgia that there could possibly be. What clueless fuckstick thought that was a good idea for their constituents? How is that even remotely a good deal for anyone but Arthur Blank?


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Rasix on April 04, 2015, 11:20:50 PM
Suck it, Kentucky.

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/82533/cheesed.gif)


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Mithas on April 06, 2015, 11:21:28 PM
Fuck I hate college basketball. Why do I get invested into this stuff? Duke rents players for a year or two and Wisconsin builds theirs up over 4. I hope it's vacated in a few years.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on April 07, 2015, 04:33:20 AM
Don't hold your breath. Seems likely that Coach K is as clean as they get in the NCAA.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on April 07, 2015, 08:00:45 AM
I'm glad the death star won. Duke was the better defensive team, with the better player in the middle. They were the better team all around. Wisconsin got really lucky to get past Arizona, and they denied me my chance to see a UK-Duke battle for it all with perfection on the line, so I don't care about them.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on April 07, 2015, 12:03:45 PM
Fuck I hate college basketball. Why do I get invested into this stuff? Duke rents players for a year or two and Wisconsin builds theirs up over 4. I hope it's vacated in a few years.

In that case, I blame the NBA and that idiotic one-and-done rule that forces high school prospects to spend a year in college before being eligible for the draft. It's pretty much removed any kind of legacy-building of a team. You have 6 months to get your team of rentals to work together before bidding them farewell.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: WayAbvPar on April 09, 2015, 09:49:06 PM
Anyone watching the Masters? I took the day off to watch the first round. Spieth went goddamned bananas, then slowed down on the second half of the back nine before a birdie on 18. Jason Day had a very nice back 9 and is 2 back of Spieth. Tiger sprayed the ball all over creation off the tee, but saved a lot of pars with a very solid short game. He looks healthy at least. If can get it put together he can still win a few tournaments, but his window is getting damned small. In old guy news, Ernie Els shot a very nice -6 and Freddie Couples shot +7  :heartbreak:

Working from home tomorrow so this will be on 'in the background'   :drill:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Mithas on April 09, 2015, 10:38:58 PM
I'll be watching it this weekend when I get the chance. Personal issues aside, golf needs Tiger Woods to be really good again. Or someone else just as good. It is far more interesting to watch. That said, I don't think he can do it. Whatever mojo he had before everything went down will never come back.

Majors are always interesting because it is fun to watch some players come out of the gates on fire and totally fall off. While the players with a real shot just keep playing consistently all weekend and keep building on their game to the end.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on April 10, 2015, 08:20:41 AM
I'm going on Saturday.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ingmar on April 13, 2015, 06:46:53 PM
At least he still has that fancy Nike Oregon gear?

http://deadspin.com/glory-boy-runner-celebrates-too-early-loses-race-1697469964


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Sir T on July 24, 2015, 07:15:42 AM
Wrestling counts as a sport, right?


Quote
Breaking News: Hulk Hogan Removed From Everything WWE Related, Pulled From Tough Enough, Hogan Posts Cryptic Reaction
Nick Paglino Nick Paglino
July 23, 2015

hulk hoganhulk hoganAn unusual story is developing late Thursday night, as WWE has seemingly completely disassociated itself from Hall of Famer Hulk Hogan.

Hogan has been pulled from WWE.com completely, he is no longer listed as a judge on Tough Enough, and all of his merchandise links have been removed from WWE’s online shop.

The only Hogan related link remaining on WWE’s website is him being advertised for the Australian tour in which he is scheduled to be the General Manager. However, when you click the link it takes you to a page saying “You are not authorized to access this page.”

In what might be a reaction to all this, Hogan Tweeted the following:

    “In the storm I release control,God and his Universe will sail me where he wants me to be,one love. HH”


Quote
More Details on Hulk Hogan and WWE Potentially Parting Ways, Hogan Rumored to Have Gone On a Racial Tirade, More
Nick Paglino Nick Paglino
July 23, 2015

As noted, WWE’s website has completely pulled all things Hulk Hogan related, and it appears as if Hogan is done with the company.

Rumors have begun surfacing online that a video or audio tape might have leaked, which features Hogan going on a racial tirade, but that cannot be confirmed at this time, nor can it be confirmed that’s the reason why WWE.com has disassociated itself from Hogan.

Dave Meltzer Tweeted the following:

    WWE web site told a few hours ago to remove all references to him. That’s all I know so far.

    — Dave Meltzer (@davemeltzerWON) July 24, 2015

http://www.wrestlezone.com/news/601405-more-details-on-hulk-hogan-and-wwe-potentially-parting-ways-hogan-rumored-to-have-gone-on-a-racial-tirade-more


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Sir T on July 24, 2015, 09:46:41 AM
More info here, but its pretty much all speculation at this point. Too long to chop and paste so cleeeek da leeeenk.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/07/24/report-wwe-scrubs-all-mentions-of-hulk-hogan-in-wake-of-controversial-n-word-audio.html


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Shannow on September 05, 2015, 03:46:11 PM
As a lead up to the World Cup the U.S. Are playing Australia tonight in rugby at Soldiers field.  It will be on nbc sports. 7pm est if you're interested.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ginaz on September 12, 2015, 12:48:19 AM
Looks like someone needs to up their roid dossage. :awesome_for_real:

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/tennis/us-open-tennis-serena-1.3224759


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: MrHat on October 31, 2015, 09:08:49 AM
Grantland shutdown.  :heartbreak:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Shannow on October 31, 2015, 08:46:48 PM
Grantland shutdown.  :heartbreak:

Fuck ESPN.

Idiots.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Chimpy on October 31, 2015, 09:00:54 PM
ESPN is owned by the rat. Never forget that.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Merusk on November 01, 2015, 12:57:21 PM
I don't get the anger. All I've ever seen people bitch about is how ESPN focuses on drama & pop culture rather than the actual sports. Since that was Grantland's focus it seems like a move back towards ESPN's original mission rather than continuing to run down the path people bitch about.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Shannow on November 01, 2015, 04:08:51 PM
Eh what?  No , I enjoyed the writing on Grantland whether it be about sports or pop culture. Sean Mcindoe (sp?) hockey column, Katie Baker, Bill Barnwell's NFL stuff etc. One page where I could go to daily and usually find something long form to read that was typically of good quality , certainly higher than the large amount of shit on ESPN's main page. I really don't give a crap if it was affiliated with ESPN or not, I just liked the variety, quality and length of the writing. Maybe Simmons will reincarnate it through his new deal with HBO.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on November 01, 2015, 04:49:05 PM
I don't get the anger. All I've ever seen people bitch about is how ESPN focuses on drama & pop culture rather than the actual sports. Since that was Grantland's focus it seems like a move back towards ESPN's original mission rather than continuing to run down the path people bitch about.

That's pretty much it. The site was given tons of leeway because Simmons was Simmons. When he left, ESPN reeled in the very long leash along with other cuts.

And people that are talented will find outlets for their writing in other forums. This is the internet where eyeballs are king. If you can produce those views, you will get work.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Malakili on November 29, 2015, 07:29:03 PM
Well, I don't watch much NBA, but Kobe Bryant announced today that he will be retiring after this season.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on November 30, 2015, 07:58:18 AM
Well, I don't watch much NBA, but Kobe Bryant announced today that he will be retiring after this season.

Which is good because he's terrible now. And he at least will get some of the Rocking Chair Retirement Tour love he desperately wants.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Cyrrex on December 02, 2015, 09:18:04 AM
The guy has been playing for something like 47 seasons it seems.

And for the record, I don't think there is a debate on the subject....MJ > Kobe.  Anyone disagree?


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on December 02, 2015, 09:48:40 AM
Nah nobody thinks of Kobe as best ever. It's all MJ and Lebron.

And now Steph Curry if he can sustain success for another decade.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on March 09, 2016, 01:47:27 PM
March Madness starts soon and I'm having a really hard time giving a fuck. I mean college basketball is already watered down enough by the one-and-done rule, but even the ones that are left kind of suck this year.

I mean here's your top 4 teams by RPI:

Kansas, Virginia, Villanova, and Oregon.

OK Kansas and Nova, they are always around but still are usually BIG yawns in the tourney when it comes to winning it all.

Virginia? They have 6 losses already. Not exactly what I think of when I think #1 tourney seeds. Oregon's up there too, but the rankings have Michigan State higher.

Notice there's no Duke, UCONN, Louisville, Kentucky, or anybody that's won in the last 5 years. Nope, those teams are mediocre this year in the top 25 but not elite. Meh.

This may be the year we see a 16 over 1 upset. The field is horrifically weak.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Rasix on March 17, 2016, 09:33:15 PM
This first half is making me sad.  I don't know how Sean Miller didn't manage to install any sort of offense all season.

Yah, this tournament field is weak, but I think you'll see an eventual winner from among the 1 seeds or possibly Michigan State.  There absolutely no star power.  Ben Simmons, the projected #1, didn't even make it.  The Ingram kid from Duke, who will likely go #2, doesn't really even carry his team.

It's still the best 2 days in sports.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on March 18, 2016, 12:11:10 PM
The Arizona loss was completely overshadowed by Purdue shitting the bed in ways nobody has considered. Good lord. 2 OTs and they still couldn't put away Arkansas Podunk. And blew a 13 point lead.

Plus tomorrow gives us Yale vs. Duke. Class of the White-ans.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Rasix on March 18, 2016, 12:29:23 PM
Everyone was picking UofA to lose anyhow.  I'm surprised we weren't an underdog on the Vegas lines going in.  Both 5th and 6th seeds went down in games where only Purdue looked like they shit the bed. 

Traffic was non-existent this morning.  The town is sad.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on March 18, 2016, 03:59:33 PM
Michigan state just wrecked everyone's bets


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Rasix on March 18, 2016, 04:14:09 PM
This first half is making me sad.  I don't know how Sean Miller didn't manage to install any sort of offense all season.

Yah, this tournament field is weak, but I think you'll see an eventual winner from among the 1 seeds or possibly Michigan State.  There absolutely no star power.  Ben Simmons, the projected #1, didn't even make it.  The Ingram kid from Duke, who will likely go #2, doesn't really even carry his team.

It's still the best 2 days in sports.

(http://9p5z91rxsag1usgoc1ctvupb.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/you_know_nothing.gif)


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Rasix on April 14, 2016, 01:36:41 PM
Finally the great Kobe dick-sucking tour of 2016 is over.

He scored 60 points on sub 50% shooting (shot 50 times including 21 threes  (6 made)).  What a perfect microcosm of his late career. 

Has any other player gotten this sort of ridiculous, season-long send off to their career?


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: WayAbvPar on April 14, 2016, 02:34:00 PM
I am just glad he is gone. Fuck him.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Malakili on April 14, 2016, 02:36:53 PM
Finally the great Kobe dick-sucking tour of 2016 is over.

He scored 60 points on sub 50% shooting (shot 50 times including 21 threes  (6 made)).  What a perfect microcosm of his late career. 

Has any other player gotten this sort of ridiculous, season-long send off to their career?

It's only because the Lakers are such utter crap this year and they realized the Kobe tour was the only way they had to make people care about the team. If the Lakers were good the story would be out there, but the focus would have actually been on the team anyway. This was intentionally done to distract people from the team.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on April 15, 2016, 12:30:14 PM
Has any other player gotten this sort of ridiculous, season-long send off to their career?

Uh yeah. Jeter. It was like he was dying every game.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: WayAbvPar on April 15, 2016, 01:19:08 PM
If that was going to be the case, I would have gone to see it. I don't loathe Jeter quite as much as Kobe (he didn't get away with rape, at least to my knowledge), but he is still a herpes-riddled shitbag.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on June 19, 2016, 10:04:35 PM
Congratulations to Cleveland for getting off the Championship snide. See, there's hope for the Browns yet!


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Surlyboi on June 19, 2016, 10:49:01 PM
Too bad Lebron's gonna have so much smoke blown up his ass, what little humility he gained lately is gonna disappear like his hairline is.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ginaz on June 19, 2016, 11:32:33 PM
Too bad Lebron's gonna have so much smoke blown up his ass, what little humility he gained lately is gonna disappear like his hairline is.

Stephen A. Smith is gonna open up extra wide to make sure he can fit his mouth around Lebron's dick...well, even more than he already does.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Rasix on June 20, 2016, 12:11:30 AM
Too bad Lebron's gonna have so much smoke blown up his ass, what little humility he gained lately is gonna disappear like his hairline is.

To be fair, his butt mostly deserves that smoke. That was Jordanesque.

Tomorrow is going to be a total ESPN flavored gnob gobbling. I almost want to watch Kornheiser and Willbon (sp) trip over themselves tomorrow trying to see who can be more effusive.

Just a horrible series from Steph.  Got to wonder if he's still hurting, but his three ball looked awful in the last 2.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on June 20, 2016, 09:18:05 AM
This is the only NBA game I've watched in years. Lebron wasn't so masterful last night, but his team actually stepped up and played well around him. I mean, he was still good, don't get me wrong but I don't think he was "Jordanesque" at least not in this game. Their defense though did just enough to win and Kevin Love was getting shittons of boards. I was afraid for a bit there that Lebron would take Draymond Green out at the balls after he kept hitting so many threes but he cooled off so walked off with his dick intact.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Chimpy on June 20, 2016, 10:31:48 AM
If even a quarter of those three point shots that Gilden State made in the first half had missed, it probably would not have been nearly as close.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on June 20, 2016, 11:23:25 AM
Still not sure what happens now. As a native Clevelander, what do I do now? I have no idea ...  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Chimpy on June 20, 2016, 11:24:42 AM
Still not sure what happens now. As a native Clevelander, what do I do now? I have no idea ...  :why_so_serious:

Set the river on fire?  :drillf:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on June 20, 2016, 11:29:25 AM
I thought that happened naturally.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on June 20, 2016, 11:29:59 AM
Well not any more... god damn government regulation and EPA bullshit.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Surlyboi on June 20, 2016, 11:32:14 AM
You gotta think Cleveland winning a title after decades of heartbreak is God balancing the scales for making them host Donald Trump's nomination next month.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on June 20, 2016, 11:33:40 AM
That's when the river is SCHEDULED to be on fire next.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on June 20, 2016, 11:39:56 AM
The Lebron hate will never die, but he pretty much put the final nail in the coffin of them having any real point to it. He'll still never be as good as Jordan in my mind, but he did something that Jordan never did, mostly due to necessity.

I don't like Lebron, but I respect his game. He's a phenom on the court who I only wish wouldn't flop and whine as much as he does. But none of that matters when you have 3 rings, break a curse, fulfill a prophesy of sorts, and do in with the biggest comeback in NBA history.

That all being said, nobody will remember GS's victory from last year. They will FOREVER be the team that choked away a 73 win season, and a 3-1 lead in the finals. Forever and ever. Amen.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on June 20, 2016, 11:53:53 AM
It's not like the Warriors are going away. That's still a crazy talented team.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Rasix on June 20, 2016, 12:10:20 PM
I think all that they're losing is Barnes, if they decided not to pay him.  He had a putrid finals.

If Durant stays in OKC, I think they hit the finals instead of GS. They really seemed to figure out during the last quarter of the season and into the playoffs.  

This is the only NBA game I've watched in years. Lebron wasn't so masterful last night, but his team actually stepped up and played well around him. I mean, he was still good, don't get me wrong but I don't think he was "Jordanesque" at least not in this game. Their defense though did just enough to win and Kevin Love was getting shittons of boards. I was afraid for a bit there that Lebron would take Draymond Green out at the balls after he kept hitting so many threes but he cooled off so walked off with his dick intact.

He had a triple double.  Not quite the back to back 41 point nights he had previously, but he really did it all. Also had 3 blocks and 2 steals, while limiting himself to 2 turnovers after the initial quarter.  The team is wretched offensively right now outside of him and Irving.  Love needs to figure his shit out.  Sure he might not score 20 a night, but if he can go for 12-16, while grabbing 10 boards, he'll work.  But they're likely going to try and trade Love for someone that doesn't look so fundamentally retarded on defense.  They never should have gotten rid of Wiggins.

edit: Love stuff being said, he did have a good night.  Lots of hustle.  Good individual defensive effort, especially keeping Curry in front of him.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Chimpy on June 20, 2016, 01:24:15 PM
That last block of Lebron's where he sandwiched the ball between his hand and the glass was pretty jaw dropping.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on June 20, 2016, 01:55:35 PM
Yeah, it was even more amazing when you see where he was as that shot started to develop. He basically made up half the goddamn court in the distance and still flat rejected the man. Also, Kevin Love's defense on that late shot that Steph Curry missed was stellar. You expect a big guy like that to get juked by Curry but Love gave him nothing but giant white dude to aim at.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: MediumHigh on June 20, 2016, 03:57:38 PM
I liked Kevin Love this game. Granted he looks nonathletic and he puts in close to zero points, he accounts for 20 points not scored because of him so... yeah. In hindsight its probably more important that the Cavs not make this a 100+ point game than for Love to put up an extra 8-10.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Azuredream on June 20, 2016, 06:02:57 PM
Kevin Love did a great job but it looked to me like if Curry wanted to drive to the basket he could've blown by Love, he was just desperate for a 3 and Love knew that.

If LeBron had actually made that dunk after that block that would've been one of the most ridiculous sequences in a Finals ever. Although making the second free throw after tweaking his wrist was clutch too.

Irving I was worried about after the first 3 or 4 games, but he really showed he can be the future of the Cavs in the elimination games. It's amazing he's only 24, not even in his prime yet.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on July 05, 2016, 02:51:06 PM
Kevin Durant is going to Golden State, which makes the NBA more absurd than ever. I hate everything about how that league is structured.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Trippy on July 05, 2016, 03:38:11 PM
Kevin Durant is going to Golden State, which makes the NBA more absurd than ever. I hate everything about how that league is structured.
The NBA actually restructured things to try and prevent another Miami but since Curry is being way underpaid and the salary cap jumped up substantially the Warriors were still able to make it happen.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Malakili on July 05, 2016, 04:00:24 PM
As someone with little rooting interest and who watches about 5 NBA games a year, I guess it's good for me not to have a superstar player like that in a nothing market like OKC.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Rasix on July 05, 2016, 04:30:31 PM
This makes the NBA way less interesting.  For all of the hate Lebron gets for his "decision" this one is 100% worse in substance and effect. At least in Miami it was Bosh, Wade, Lebron, and a bunch of terrible players and they didn't jump to the team that was historically the best regular season team ever.  Here you've got subs like Andre Igudola and Shawn Livingston.  They're going to be a little soft in the middle, but it won't matter with the length that they're going to have and the fact that they'll have 3 guys that can put up 100 all by themselves.

Durant must really not get along with Westbrook to even happen.  You go from nearly beating a team (and only a miracle game from Klay Thompson and your own failure allowed it) to go to the finals, to joining them as a 4th wheel? Wat.

OKC is now a dead franchise.  They need to hope that they can get good value for Westbrook, because he'll be gone one way or another.  

And he pissed off my son by doing this.  So, there's that as well.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: WayAbvPar on July 05, 2016, 09:51:00 PM
I love it, because fuck OKC to fucking death and back. Now they now how it feels to lose something besides a mobile home park and a criminal ownership partner. I love that Westbrook is fucking off. I hope they go 10-72 every year until they move the team.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: TheWalrus on July 06, 2016, 02:29:28 PM
So... you don't care for OKC, then?


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on July 06, 2016, 03:46:51 PM
That is pure, unadulterated Seattle Supersonics Salt right there.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on July 06, 2016, 04:29:22 PM
Durant must really not get along with Westbrook to even happen.

Westbrook shoots too much. That's his main problem when it comes to Durant. When you PG is taking the 5th most shot attempts in the league? And he's not named Steph Curry? That's a bad thing.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Zetleft on July 06, 2016, 08:17:19 PM
Durant must really not get along with Westbrook to even happen.

Westbrook shoots too much. That's his main problem when it comes to Durant. When you PG is taking the 5th most shot attempts in the league? And he's not named Steph Curry? That's a bad thing.

So much this.  Westbrook loses so many games with his lack of ball movement and when he is cold he just continues to throw shots in desperation without even using the shot clock.  Only reason they beat the spurs is that last few games Westbrook looked like he grew up and was a team player, bastard.  Of course he reverted and they lost the next series. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Chimpy on July 11, 2016, 11:13:23 AM
Tim Duncan finally hung up his shoes. 19 seasons with one team in an era of free agency is nuts. :ye_gods:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on July 11, 2016, 12:53:33 PM
He's the best Power Forward ever, and went about his business with such little fanfare for himself in an era of Superstar Player Divas. He was truly one of kind in the game.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Zetleft on July 11, 2016, 03:00:06 PM
Miss the big fundamental already.  Won't be the same watching the Spurs without him.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on July 16, 2016, 06:52:09 PM
Durant must really not get along with Westbrook to even happen.

Westbrook shoots too much. That's his main problem when it comes to Durant. When you PG is taking the 5th most shot attempts in the league? And he's not named Steph Curry? That's a bad thing.

He had the fourth highest WARP in the league.  Let's not be goofy and pretend he's not an amazing player and probably should be taking that many shots.  In addition to being an all around scoring badass, he was second in the league with assists at 10.4 per game.  


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ginaz on July 25, 2016, 12:37:25 AM
Mike Piazza and Ken Griffey Jr. went into the baseball HOF yesterday.  Apparently Jr. missed out on a unanimous selection by only 3 votes.  Whoever those 3 people are should have their voting privileges revoke for life.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Cyrrex on July 25, 2016, 12:42:16 AM
Some time back I read an article (an article specifically about Junior's HOF votes) that said that some of the HOF voters for baseball will deliberately tank it so that there is no unanimous vote.  The justification somewhere along the lines of "he will never be as good as that other guy, so I will make sure he doesn't get all the votes" kind of thing.  Which is lame, but there it is.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on July 25, 2016, 08:35:15 AM
It's run by baseball writers. Who are the biggest collection of know-it-all chucklefucks in existence. They make academia assholes look tame.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on July 25, 2016, 11:31:59 AM
Yeah, anyone that can try to claim either Griffey, Jr. or Piazza shouldn't be in the Hall needs to never be allowed to vote. You might have a case for Piazza (you don't since he was the best power hitting catcher of all time) but fuck you if you think Griffey shouldn't get your vote because of some "no one can be unanimous" thing. Baseball is full of a lot of stuck up, "unwritten rules" kind of assholes that need to hurry the fuck up and die off.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Shannow on July 26, 2016, 10:00:37 PM
It's run by baseball writers. Who are the biggest collection of know-it-all chucklefucks in existence. They make academia assholes look tame.

x100


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Margalis on July 28, 2016, 05:18:44 AM
It's run by baseball writers. Who are the biggest collection of know-it-all chucklefucks in existence. They make academia assholes look tame.

A friend of mine once said that he thought I would really like the guys from Baseball Prospectus and it legit made me angry.

Pedro Martinez got 91% of the HOF votes. Pedro Martinez is probably the best pitcher of anyone here's lifetime, and I say that as a Yankees fan. There's a reasonable argument to be made that he's the best pitcher of all time - I certainly don't think you can point to anyone else in history and say they were clearly better. If you look at the stats it's a no-brainer, if you've seen him pitch it's a no-brainer.  91%!

It defies explanation.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on July 28, 2016, 10:04:19 AM
Most of the guys at Talking Chop, which was the local Saber-head hangout for Braves fans, got run out of there because they were such insufferable assholes about advanced stats that the readership tanked. Then they brought in new guys who are still asses about some of it, but nowhere near as bad.

But make no mistake, advanced stats in baseball is a religion. And if you don't buy in, you're an idiot heretic that should be burned at the stake for your hubris.

Which is funny, because in my mind the advanced stats and analytics should stand on their own if they were based on across the board solid math. The problem is that the ones they love the most are based on ridiculous assumptions that regular GM's don't even bother to look at. They overvalue the crap out of defense as an example, while GMs now are so desperate for power bats they would probably trade their own wives for a 30 HR a year guy.

It's why a guy like Jason Heyward was seen as infinitely valueable to stat-heads for his defense and baserunning, while regular fans watched him play and hit and said "WHAT?"


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on July 28, 2016, 11:31:51 AM
Yeah, the Heyward contract appears to be vastly overvalued, though I will say his defense HAS won the Cubs at least one and probably more ball games. But holy shit is he a strikeout waiting to happen at the plate. And he seems incapable of making the adjustments to get himself to be a consistent .260 hitter.

OBP is another one of those overrated stats. It's a GOOD measurement of a good hitter but it's not a winning stat. Like if everyone of my hitters has a .300+ OBP, that doesn't mean I'm going to win the World Series because eventually somebody has to knock all those guys on the bases in. Average with RISP is a better stat to me unless I'm talking about guy I expect to hit 1 or 2 in the batting order - then I'm concerned about OBP.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on July 28, 2016, 12:56:11 PM
Good lord, don't bring up RISP with those people. That's as touchy a subject as saying strikeouts are bad.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on July 28, 2016, 01:04:29 PM
Good lord, don't bring up RISP with those people. That's as touchy a subject as saying strikeouts are bad.

Only a complete fucking idiot (or an austic idiot savant) would discount RISP.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on July 28, 2016, 02:14:20 PM
Don't you know Haemish? RISP evens out over time. It's a terrible stat because it follows normal team average, so it's not that important.

/sarcasm.

Here read this and don't let your head explode. http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/a-plea-to-stop-the-obsession-with-risp-batting-average/


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Trippy on July 28, 2016, 02:57:30 PM
He presumably was making a reference to regression to the mean which in fact does happen. It's like when somebody hits 10 HRs in the first 20 games of a season and everybody says he's on pace to hit 81 for the year. Yeah but no. That's not how these things work.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on July 29, 2016, 09:41:21 AM
He presumably was making a reference to regression to the mean which in fact does happen. It's like when somebody hits 10 HRs in the first 20 games of a season and everybody says he's on pace to hit 81 for the year. Yeah but no. That's not how these things work.


Yeah that's fine. And if we look at a guys entire career, things do balance out. But sometimes you have outlier seasons, and that outlier season is enough to win a championship.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: WayAbvPar on July 29, 2016, 01:14:41 PM
RISP is not a repeatable skill. It is essentially random, since it depends on the batters in front to even happen. Same with RBIs, for the most part.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on July 29, 2016, 01:29:30 PM
There is something to be said for the ability to hold up under pressure and actually knock that guy in from 2nd or 3rd. Call it clutch, call it whatever, it may not be a skill but as a stat to track the value of a player, I'll take it over OBP.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on July 29, 2016, 02:03:15 PM
RISP is not a repeatable skill. It is essentially random, since it depends on the batters in front to even happen. Same with RBIs, for the most part.

Let's look at Fred McGriff as an example. He was a .285 hitter in his long career with a .509 slugging. His RISP is .277 and .479 career.

In 1995 when the Braves won the championship, he was .280 avg, .489 slugging. But with RISP in 1995? .291 and .552 slugging. A HUGE slugging difference with runners that helped propel the Braves to a championship. He was oddly clutch that year, and wasn't that kind of hitter for most of his career again.

But he was with RISP for that finite period of time, and that made a large difference for the team, even though it always evens out over the long haul.

If we're evaluating Fred over the long haul for trades, we'd look at all his values. But to Braves fans his biggest value was in 1995 for that one year where they won everything.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Nebu on July 30, 2016, 12:57:33 PM
RISP is not a repeatable skill. It is essentially random, since it depends on the batters in front to even happen. Same with RBIs, for the most part.

I'm not sure that I agree.  It would seem to me that RISP favors ground ball and contact hitters more heavily than power hitters.  This would be particularly true when you play for a team that likes to play small ball and employs the Hit-and-run more often than average. 

Again, this is more 'gut-based' than stats-based.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: WayAbvPar on July 30, 2016, 03:51:41 PM
There is no doubt that McGriff was a huge factor in 1995. However, it does not have any predictive value. RISP fluctuates due to batting order, game situations, and (most of all) to the ability of the people in front of the batter to get themselves into scoring position. There is not much statistical difference between regular bating average and average with RISP.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: MrHat on August 25, 2016, 09:05:21 AM
This might be one of my new favorite pictures:

(https://i.redd.it/mh1eqwgezfhx.jpg)


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on August 25, 2016, 09:20:03 AM
She should have brought her purse too.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Abagadro on November 02, 2016, 02:56:48 AM
Have never seen a bigger run of punk play than Vayo ran heads up in the World Series tonight. I mean, holy hell, bet your fucking hand once in a while.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: WayAbvPar on November 03, 2016, 09:17:53 AM
I wonder if his advisors concocted that strategy specifically for Nguyen. If Vayo had caught even half the cards Nguyen did it would have been reasonably effective. That being said, he really needed to pounce a couple of times, but he was terrified of getting 3-bet while holding air and having to fold.

You gotta give Nguyen credit- the guy is fucking fearless. I have played against guys like him before- they are a fucking nightmare when they are catching cards. They are wonderful if I am catching cards and they don't adjust, however  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Bunk on December 12, 2016, 03:10:28 PM
Seems a good thread for this, as purists don't consider MLS real Football/Soccer.

MLS cup was this weekend. Seattle Sounders vs Toronto FC. First Canadian team to make the finals.

Nil Nil after regulation and OT, including this save around the 110 minute mark:

https://youtu.be/cmRfL4BQfOg (https://youtu.be/cmRfL4BQfOg)

Ended up going to Seattle in Penalties, despite Seattle having zero shots on target in the game. Seattle keeper made 7 saves.

It may not be up to world standards, but it can still be pretty entertaining (especially live).


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on December 12, 2016, 04:05:48 PM
I watched it. Entertaining it was not. I want the MLS to have good football but at least half the teams in the league do not understand the concept. Also, fuck turf. Fuck turf SO HARD.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Shannow on December 13, 2016, 08:05:39 AM
MLS, so crap it doesn't even make it into the soccer thread.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Bunk on December 13, 2016, 09:04:56 AM
Ok, it really wasn't a good game, I just tried slipping that by assuming no one watched it. Which is too bad, because the 5-3 semi between Toronto and Montreal before that was.

I think I was entertained by the game mostly due to the number of Winter Ales I had downed at the pub.

Yes turf sucks, but so does trying to keep a grass field alive in the winter in Toronto.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on December 13, 2016, 10:08:08 AM
That game is kind of par for the course with MLS though, at least most of what I've seen over the last few years. There are some entertaining games and teams and though I didn't watch it, the Montreal-Toronto series seemed to have all that. The Final though had all the worst aspects of MLS. I've seen more entertaining first round FA Cup matches with non-league teams on both sides.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Shannow on December 13, 2016, 10:08:51 AM

Yes turf sucks, but so does trying to keep a grass field alive in the winter in Toronto.

Pretty much this. NA climate is significantly drier and colder than Europe.

I knew Bradley would miss his PK. I don't trust him.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on December 14, 2016, 05:24:59 PM
Bradley is like the "hot" girl at a small, country high school.  He's damned awesome in the right venue.... but mostly gets exposed when he's among the real players


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Rasix on April 26, 2017, 02:56:53 PM
ESPN just fired a ton of on air talent.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/espn-will-cut-100-air-personalities-today-123057142.html

I would hope that at some point ESPN comes back to its roots and goes back to mainly airing sporting events and talking about what happens in said events as a baseline and at least attempts to do that well.

Still, a bit shocked that they ditched Dilfer. He actually doesn't suck that bad. Ed Werder too.  There's a lot of useless dead meat that isn't on the lists floating around.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on April 26, 2017, 03:05:23 PM
ESPN just fired a ton of on air talent.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/espn-will-cut-100-air-personalities-today-123057142.html

I would hope that at some point ESPN comes back to its roots and goes back to mainly airing sporting events and talking about what happens in said events as a baseline and at least attempts to do that well.

Still, a bit shocked that they ditched Dilfer. He actually doesn't suck that bad. Ed Werder too.  There's a lot of useless dead meat that isn't on the lists floating around.

And yet they kept the talkshow hosts... so glad I have that channel.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Rasix on April 26, 2017, 03:35:25 PM
Some of the shows aren't too bad. I actually don't mind PTI or Around the Horn. Even Highly Questionable isn't too bad. The shouting match Steven A Smith garbage and pop culture/TMZ type crap is horrible though.

It's sad when I miss a game I really wanted to see, and the best I get is 10 seconds of poorly called highlights because it was a west coast game. OHH but I get the full 15 minutes of kid with cancer that got to meet his favorite football player for the 1000th time.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on April 26, 2017, 04:04:59 PM
ESPN is making the same goddamn mistakes MTV made. It's getting away from their core brand, the thing that makes them special - i.e. live sports and shittons of highlights of other live sports. All this talk radio garbage that they've been shitting up the airwaves with for years is just utter shit. It's fine in small doses but the whole goddamn network is wall-to-wall with this shit when there isn't live sports to be had (and they stopped doing replays of the live events they used to do). Fuck that noise. Replay last night's MLB game. I'd rather encase my cock in concrete than listen to Stephen A. Smith again.

Meanwhile, Fox Sports is trying to outdo them in this idiocy by snapping up all their worst hosts like Skip Bayless.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Rasix on April 26, 2017, 04:09:54 PM
Well at least it isn't wall to wall reality shows yet or introducing a sports version of Game of Thrones. So, there's that going for them.

They'll either right the ship or go straight to History Channel levels of stupid.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Chimpy on April 26, 2017, 04:44:17 PM
The non-talk show hosts don't bring in ad revenue, cable news has proven that the way to get ad revenue is to have a bunch of clueless yet opinionated people on air yapping at each other is where it is at.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: DevilsAdvocate25 on April 26, 2017, 05:44:53 PM
Well at least it isn't wall to wall reality shows yet or introducing a sports version of Game of Thrones. So, there's that going for them.

They'll either right the ship or go straight to History Channel levels of stupid.

Did you say Game of Zones (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLoqDIJHlyN3NIPW9D37rQEceGNZEiRmMX)?

I don't really like derivative crap like this, so I haven't watched it, but they advertise it during every NBA playoff game.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on April 26, 2017, 09:00:49 PM
The non-talk show hosts don't bring in ad revenue, cable news has proven that the way to get ad revenue is to have a bunch of clueless yet opinionated people on air yapping at each other is where it is at.

Except clearly it ain't working for ESPN because their numbers are tanking.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Chimpy on April 27, 2017, 01:14:14 AM
The non-talk show hosts don't bring in ad revenue, cable news has proven that the way to get ad revenue is to have a bunch of clueless yet opinionated people on air yapping at each other is where it is at.

Except clearly it ain't working for ESPN because their numbers are tanking.

Their numbers are tanking because the number of cable and satellite TV customers has been shrinking considerably over the last few years and continues to do so. That doesn't mean that certain types of shows (talk radio style BS) don't bring in better ad revenue than the 14th consecutive replay of Sportscenter. They also went a little too nuts on the number of ESPN sub channels which diluted their product.

And because they have committed so ridiculously much for broadcast rights to the sports leagues into the next decade (seriously, they pay over 1.5 Billion a year for the NBA alone) they have to cut their spending in other places.



Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on May 08, 2017, 08:26:11 AM
The main problem with ESPN is their ratings don't match up with the costs they paid to keep FOX and the like out of their nest in the live sports broadcast business.

The secondary problem is the internet exists, and highlight shows are pointless because I can get every highlight I want on demand now instead of waiting to watch some talking head spit it out. The sportscenter model was fine, but now they have no idea what they want to do with it. They have been tied to it forever, so they are trying to "rebrand" them (see the 6PM version with Jemele and Michael) so they can keep one toe in the past while trying to shift to the future.

The reason you see all these human interest stories is because you've already seen the highlights, and you can get the scores on your phone. ESPN is trying to figure out a way to get content into Sportscenter you haven't seen yet, and they simply don't know how to do that without losing their base and turning into the social news network as it mildly relates to sports or TMZ for Sports.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Shannow on May 16, 2017, 07:57:31 PM
No i refuse to start an NBA thread.

Celtics and Lakers get the 1 and 2 picks in the upcoming draft... :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on May 17, 2017, 08:40:02 AM
The NBA is eventually going to find itself in a major problem with the player-driven model they've created. I can't even begin to care about any of the playoffs up to the Finals because there's only two teams in the league. Watching Cleveland and Golden State steamroll every patty cake pushover on both watered-down sides of the conferences isn't fun. Barring injury or Lebron leaving again, I really can't see how Cleveland misses the finals for the next 3 years after this one, since they have all their pieces basically in place with contracts.

The issue is that people aren't watching the playoffs in large numbers. Yes, they top the lists because it's sports and it's against nothing really, but if you look at the top 5 games last week, they are averaging about 2M viewers per game. A Family guy rerun on Adult Swim usually does about 1M viewers.

Compare to a bad NFL playoff game, and the NFL did almost 25M viewers for the Oakland-Houston wild card matchup. Even if you take into account an entire 7 game series, the NBA isn't touching that one game's viewer totals. Cubs and Dodgers in the NLCS was averaging about 7-9M viewers a game.

The Finals will do amazing numbers and the NBA will crow about how great the product is, but that's simply not true. The NBA regular season ratings continue to get worse and worse as the regular season becomes more useless, and now even the 1st and 2nd rounds of the playoffs have become useless because they are allowing Superteams to dominate the sport.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on May 17, 2017, 10:43:23 AM
Watching Cleveland and Golden State steamroll every patty cake pushover on both watered-down sides of the conferences isn't fun. Barring injury or Lebron leaving again, I really can't see how Cleveland misses the finals for the next 3 years after this one, since they have all their pieces basically in place with contracts.

It is for the Cleveland fans (the ones that actually live there and all).

It's nice as a person from there, but I hate the NBA and see that championship as kid's table recognition rather than MLB or NFL...


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on May 19, 2017, 09:18:26 AM
I don't begrudge Cleveland fans. I'm talking about the health of the league in general. This method of "well people will watch in the playoffs" only works if the playoffs are interesting.

Right now they aren't, other than the Finals. And the WORST thing that could happen is if Steph or Lebron turns an ankle in a meaningless rout series and don't get to face each other 100%.

In my mind, the NBA needs to dump the first round. They need to go to 1-4 making the playoffs, and putting everybody else in the lottery. The 5-8 slots are nothing but death and teams are starting to realize it, and they are actively tanking out of it given the opportunity. Nobody worse than a 3 seed has won in 20 years.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on May 19, 2017, 11:22:42 PM
The only issue the NBA has right now is "rest" for the stars.  There are too many games.  Nobody cares about regular season bullshit unless it actually matters for getting into the playoffs or not.  If the Cavs are a 1 or an 8 seed, they are a 1 seed.  They are just too good.  I suppose this would be the same issue that MLB has if I gave a shit about baseball.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Phildo on May 20, 2017, 12:02:10 AM
No way, baseball has a ton more parity and randomness than the NBA.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on May 20, 2017, 06:49:54 AM
If the Cavs are a 1 or an 8 seed, they are a 1 seed.  They are just too good. 

Never ever thought I would see this kind of talk in my life about any Cleveland team. End of days I tell ya.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Shannow on May 20, 2017, 09:02:24 AM
For all the Boston haters out there (and I don't blame you) , enjoy the Cavaliers. This series is loltastic.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on May 22, 2017, 09:02:15 AM
For all the Boston haters out there (and I don't blame you) , enjoy the Cavaliers. This series is loltastic.

The game last night is why Lebron can't be put in the same category as Jordan. Mike never had an 11 point game when he was a 17 point favorite and lost.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Shannow on May 22, 2017, 08:09:57 PM
Makes the IT question a little interesting. Ball hogging 5'9' guy who cant play defence...hrrm.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: DevilsAdvocate25 on May 23, 2017, 12:24:48 PM
The Finals will do amazing numbers and the NBA will crow about how great the product is, but that's simply not true. The NBA regular season ratings continue to get worse and worse as the regular season becomes more useless, and now even the 1st and 2nd rounds of the playoffs have become useless because they are allowing Superteams to dominate the sport.

Many of the playoff games that didn't involve the Cavs or Warriors were pretty good. Injuries have really decided the quality of the games though with Kawhi Leonard and Isaiah Thomas being the two biggest that will torpedo their teams.

The biggest issue I have had with the regular season is that most of the games aren't televised nationally unless you have NBA TV. Even then, I can't get any games for my favorite team (Memphis) unless they are playing a West Coast team because I live on the West Coast.

Playoff games have also been all over the channel guide with some on TNT, some on TBS, some on ESPN, and some on ABC.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Jeff Kelly on May 28, 2017, 04:30:43 PM
Just popping in to say: Fuck Honda.

The only manufacturer that screws over one of the best drivers ever in not one but two racing series.

Congrats to Sato but man Alonso can't catch a break.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Malakili on May 29, 2017, 04:59:43 AM
The Finals will do amazing numbers and the NBA will crow about how great the product is, but that's simply not true. The NBA regular season ratings continue to get worse and worse as the regular season becomes more useless, and now even the 1st and 2nd rounds of the playoffs have become useless because they are allowing Superteams to dominate the sport.

Many of the playoff games that didn't involve the Cavs or Warriors were pretty good. Injuries have really decided the quality of the games though with Kawhi Leonard and Isaiah Thomas being the two biggest that will torpedo their teams.


I don't know that it is really the superteams that are the problem.  The NHL has a lot more parity than the NBA right now and I didn't watch a single regular season game this year. I grew up watching the NHL all season long with my father. The fact of the matter is that even compared the 90s we've just got a saturation of quality of entertainment that means I can just do a lot better on a given night than an NHL or NBA or MLB game that means nothing and has effectively no consequences.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Cyrrex on May 30, 2017, 04:37:31 AM
NBA is destroying itself in the same way the NFL seems to be trying to do...by eliminating all notions that defense is an important part of the game.  They seem to think that their fans are only interested in high offense spectacles day in and day out, but that shit starts to get old pretty quick.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Hoax on May 30, 2017, 12:56:33 PM
NBA has the same primary problem NHL does, too many games, hell even the playoffs are too long in NBA, unlike NHL where the playoffs are just such a better product. Although quintuple OT 2nd round games in NHL are pretty cancer if its not your team. The NBA can't contract but everyone knows that would be an easy fix. If they cut 6 teams from the league the product would be insanely better.

You know what would really make the NBA awesome? If they went to a 2 division format ala soccer with relegation and promotions. Then even if they expanded to 32 teams so 16 per division at least there would be a reason to feign interest in the mediocre and bad teams.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on May 30, 2017, 01:21:46 PM
Unfortunately, relegation will NEVER happen in the US. Can you imagine telling a US billionaire owner that his team has to play in the scrub league next season because he didn't invest enough to build a winner (or even mid-table team)?


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on May 31, 2017, 08:51:46 AM
The main problem with ESPN is their ratings don't match up with the costs they paid to keep FOX and the like out of their nest in the live sports broadcast business.

The secondary problem is the internet exists, and highlight shows are pointless because I can get every highlight I want on demand now instead of waiting to watch some talking head spit it out. The sportscenter model was fine, but now they have no idea what they want to do with it. They have been tied to it forever, so they are trying to "rebrand" them (see the 6PM version with Jemele and Michael) so they can keep one toe in the past while trying to shift to the future.

The reason you see all these human interest stories is because you've already seen the highlights, and you can get the scores on your phone. ESPN is trying to figure out a way to get content into Sportscenter you haven't seen yet, and they simply don't know how to do that without losing their base and turning into the social news network as it mildly relates to sports or TMZ for Sports.

Back to this topic... John Clayton got canned.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/05/31/john-clayton-out-at-espn/

Seriously wtf is going on over there. Someone is going to stockpile these guys on a new channel.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on May 31, 2017, 09:24:09 AM
He was one of the few writers over there on the NFL beat that I thought was worth a shit.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Bungee on May 31, 2017, 10:43:52 AM
Unfortunately, relegation will NEVER happen in the US. Can you imagine telling a US billionaire owner that his team has to play in the scrub league next season because he didn't invest enough to build a winner (or even mid-table team)?

That's what I think takes so much away from US sports. Not having the constant up and down and changing appearance of the European Soccer leagues. It's just infinitely more drama and excitement.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on May 31, 2017, 11:55:55 AM
Yes, with relegation, losing has CONSEQUENCES, and those are swift and economic in nature. The owners rightly fear their team sucking ass.

Whereas in the NFL, teams can blow goats for decades at a time and continue to make stupid profits. See Jerry Jones and the Dallas Cowboys, or the Cleveland Browns forever.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on May 31, 2017, 12:47:51 PM
Yes, with relegation, losing has CONSEQUENCES, and those are swift and economic in nature. The owners rightly fear their team sucking ass.

Whereas in the NFL, teams can blow goats for decades at a time and continue to make stupid profits. See Jerry Jones and the Dallas Cowboys, or the Cleveland Browns forever.

HEY! we might win 5-6 games this year. Or maybe next year, but definitely 2019.



Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Shannow on May 31, 2017, 01:35:58 PM
Ironic how American sports are quite socialist in their nature.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Bungee on May 31, 2017, 02:09:06 PM
Ironic how American sports are quite socialist in their nature.

With powerful unions even and evenly shared profits.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on June 01, 2017, 12:41:29 PM
Ironic how American sports are quite socialist in their nature.

With powerful unions even and evenly shared profits.

Absolutely, the game is completely rigged and relegation is as likely as the US getting rid of the electoral college.

That's why the Cleveland Browns are allowed to exist. In Europe the Browns would have long ago been relegated to that team that plays on the village square between the school field day and the pensioners parade.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Bungee on June 01, 2017, 12:49:15 PM
That's why the Cleveland Browns are allowed to exist. In Europe the Browns would have long ago been relegated to that team that plays on the village square between the school field day and the pensioners parade.

I don't know, I think the Browns would actually benefit from a divisional system with relegation as they - just like the Raiders during their drought period - have some very loyal fans who are in it more for all the other reasons than the record. There's one of those "has-beens" with a rabid fan base that actually grew after relegation in every 2nd league in Soccer. They are often seen as more 'pure' than the big juggernauts and sell just as much merch domestically.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on June 01, 2017, 02:55:54 PM
No no, the Browns would find a way to fuck up any goodwill they'd have by the time they hit relegation #2.

They should be playing in a south Texas field somewhere, not the NFL. Actually South Texas might be too tough.

Western Iowa.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on September 26, 2017, 07:25:55 PM
Louisville is completely fucked.  And Kansas better hope their shit is in order, because I have a feeling the feds will be coming for them too.  And all the Nike schools better hope that they run a better hustle than Adidas.   :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Trippy on September 26, 2017, 07:48:27 PM
Seems like a number of schools are fucked.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on September 27, 2017, 09:01:06 AM
Good. College basketball has been absolute trash for the last decade under the one and done draft rules. I'd say blow the whole damn thing up and start over.

These players coming out of one and done haven't even been good. Here's a list of those coming out of their Freshman year:

Tyrus Thomas
Shawne Williams
Greg Oden
Kevin Durant
Al Horford

Mike Conley
Brandon Wright
Spencer Hawes
Thaddius Young
Javaris Crittenton
Daequan Cook
Derrick Rose
Michael Beasley
OJ Mayo
Kevin Love
Eric Gordan
Jerryd Bayless
Anthony Randolph
JJ Hickson
Kosta Koufos
Donte Green
Deandre Jordan
Bill Walker
Tyreke Evans
DeMar DeRozen
Jrue Holiday

Byron Mullens
John Wall
Derek Favors
DeMarcus Cousins
Xavier Henry
Eric Bledsoe
Avery Bradley
Daniel Orton
Hassan Whiteside
Lance Stephenson
Tiny Gallon

And that's just from 2006 to 2010. It gets even worse beyond that. I bolded the All-Stars in the group.



Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on September 27, 2017, 10:17:24 AM
TIL: there is a guy in the NBA named Tiny Gallon.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Chimpy on September 27, 2017, 07:32:07 PM
Man, the local paper in Champaign (which gets most of its subscriptions and page views by baiting the racists around town with stories that paint the University of Illinois in a bad light) is going nuts about the fact that one of Underwood's former assistants from when he was at Oklahoma State surrendered to the FBI yesterday.

Underwood hasn't even coached a game yet at Illinois  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Rasix on September 27, 2017, 08:26:14 PM
Rumor is that Arizona will lose its entire 2018 recruiting class.   :sad_panda:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on October 09, 2017, 08:27:28 PM
Cavaliers have actually assembled a pretty bad ass starting five.  Maybe they can make a serious run at the Warriors this year.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Shannow on December 19, 2017, 06:17:06 AM
In other news England sucks at cricket.  :why_so_serious: :why_so_serious: :why_so_serious: :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on January 03, 2018, 06:58:54 PM
It's all part of India's plan to non-violently stick in the queen mum's ass.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Rasix on February 24, 2018, 01:01:44 AM
Rumor is that Arizona will lose its entire 2018 recruiting class.   :sad_panda:

 :ye_gods: This keeps getting worse and worse. Provided this crap is true, Miller and Ayton are gone. And as an added bonus, Trier got busted for PEDs.

I doubt Arizona wins another game this season. 

On a personal note, this sucks too. My son is good friends with one of the assistant coaches' kids.




Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on February 24, 2018, 02:50:50 PM
College basketball was already fucked. This will actually be a good thing in my mind. It's going to flush out the nonsense and make it about what it should be about: College kids playing ball until they are seniors. The one and done shit needs to get fucked. There's an NBA D-league for that reason.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Phildo on April 05, 2018, 10:32:02 AM
List of words you aren't allowed to yell at Augusta this year. (https://www.instagram.com/p/BhKOhU5DIO1/?taken-by=skratchtv)


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on April 05, 2018, 10:42:13 AM
DILLY DILLY!


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on April 09, 2018, 08:01:38 PM
Pretty great Masters finish.  I love that Reed is such an asshole.  Makes things more interesting. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Ginaz on May 28, 2018, 03:16:18 PM
I hate to admit it, but Lebron James is the greatest basketball player of all time.  Getting this year's Cavs to finals again proved it.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Phildo on May 28, 2018, 10:54:41 PM
Maybe, but the minute where it looked like we might get a Houston - Boston championship was much more interesting than Cleveland - Golden State round 4.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on May 28, 2018, 11:03:51 PM
I'd rather see the star power of GS versus Cleveland, myself.  Harden is good, but I think he doesn't have what it takes to bring a championship to a team by himself.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on May 29, 2018, 12:16:09 PM
I hate to admit it, but Lebron James is the greatest basketball player of all time.  Getting this year's Cavs to finals again proved it.

Agreed. But he's now so tired, I don't see how it can be anything but Warriors in 5. They'll give Cleveland a home game win simply because the NBA won't allow a sweep. They'll pay off anybody and everybody to get at least a 5th game of TV pop.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Shannow on May 29, 2018, 05:48:20 PM
And after all that it was the Celtics that blew game 7 vs Lebron winning it. They kept on chucking up 3s and were stone cold (17%). Stevens didn't adjust, didn't slow the game down and let the youngsters keep clanging it. Bizarre.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Jeff Kelly on May 29, 2018, 06:00:01 PM
I know it’s probably a stupid question but please entertain my stupidity for a little while because I’m honestly curious.

How much of a team sport is basketball actually? Going by the news it feels like as if Curry, James, Jordan and others single-handedly win games for their teams. It makes it sound as if any team in the NBA could win if they had LeBron or as if Cleveland could still reach the play offs if they replaced one of their starting five with me instead as long as LeBron is fit and has a good day.

Other sports have exceptional players as well but even the Messi or Ronaldo hype in soccer doesn’t reach the hype levels of LeBron James and even with Ronaldo or Messi at their most woke Barcelona or Madrid are not locked in to win everything all the time and are beaten regularly by on paper much weaker teams.

So is Basketball really a team sport when a single player can make or break a playoff win?


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on May 29, 2018, 06:34:59 PM
For as much as I know basketball, Golden State is way more than Curry... he just gets most of the facetime. I think there are like 4 western conf all-stars on that team out of the 12 that get selected from all the western teams... LeBron is what he is though.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on May 29, 2018, 06:45:43 PM
I know it’s probably a stupid question but please entertain my stupidity for a little while because I’m honestly curious.

How much of a team sport is basketball actually? Going by the news it feels like as if Curry, James, Jordan and others single-handedly win games for their teams. It makes it sound as if any team in the NBA could win if they had LeBron or as if Cleveland could still reach the play offs if they replaced one of their starting five with me instead as long as LeBron is fit and has a good day.

Other sports have exceptional players as well but even the Messi or Ronaldo hype in soccer doesn’t reach the hype levels of LeBron James and even with Ronaldo or Messi at their most woke Barcelona or Madrid are not locked in to win everything all the time and are beaten regularly by on paper much weaker teams.

So is Basketball really a team sport when a single player can make or break a playoff win?

Here's the true answer. You cannot win by just having Lebron James go out there with a bunch of scrubs. You need what we would call "role-players" on the team (a defensive guy, an offensive 3 point specialist, a big man or enforcer, etc.)

However, you CANNOT win without having one superstar player. It just doesn't work. The talent of the superstar will absolutely elevate an average team to a serious contender. It will make a good team into a champion. But a good team has no shot without the Superstar, and that's why you're seeing Golden State play against Lebron for the 4th year in a row.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Trippy on May 29, 2018, 06:51:14 PM
I know it’s probably a stupid question but please entertain my stupidity for a little while because I’m honestly curious.

How much of a team sport is basketball actually? Going by the news it feels like as if Curry, James, Jordan and others single-handedly win games for their teams. It makes it sound as if any team in the NBA could win if they had LeBron or as if Cleveland could still reach the play offs if they replaced one of their starting five with me instead as long as LeBron is fit and has a good day.

Other sports have exceptional players as well but even the Messi or Ronaldo hype in soccer doesn’t reach the hype levels of LeBron James and even with Ronaldo or Messi at their most woke Barcelona or Madrid are not locked in to win everything all the time and are beaten regularly by on paper much weaker teams.
Well if you mean do individual players in basketball have a greater impact on their team success (or failure) than other major team sports then I would say yes given the fact that's it's a 5 on 5 game which is fewer players than the others. Hockey is close at 6 on 6 (including the goalies) but hockey players have to be constantly rotated because it's so tiring where in basketball a player could potentially play the entire game without being substituted. I.e. a top hockey player might be on the ice for maybe half the game while LeBron will be playing for basically the entire game. Football and the other football are 11 on 11.

On the other hand something like baseball is kind of a weird game where typically only a handful of players are involved in the action at any given time and the rest are literally just standing around whereas in basketball even with LeBron he still needs the other 4 players on his team to be doing *something* most of the time (ignoring freethrows and the like) otherwise you'll have multiple defender swarming LeBron on every shot.

Quote
So is Basketball really a team sport when a single player can make or break a playoff win?
Well hockey has the hot goalie syndrome during playoffs and in baseball hot pitchers can basically guarantee their team 2 (or even 3) wins in a series (as long as their team can score at least 1 run). So I don't think basketball is unique in that regard.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Strazos on May 30, 2018, 05:46:43 PM
In hockey, it's more like 20 minutes or so for top forwards, 24-26 minutes for top defenseman. And then that time is broken up into tiny pieces throughout the game, so even then top players only have a small window to have an impact on the game when on the ice.

How drafts affect a team can be telling. Edmonton and Buffalo drafted fantastic, generational talents a few years ago, but the teams are still garbage. However, in basketball a top draft pick can have an immediate and dramatic impact.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Jeff Kelly on June 01, 2018, 10:05:45 AM
Has basketball abolished the huge displays where you can see the current game score? Asking for Cleveland.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Rasix on June 01, 2018, 11:18:18 AM
Has basketball abolished the huge displays where you can see the current game score? Asking for Cleveland.

That has got to be the biggest derp moment in basketball since Chris Webber's time out.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Trippy on June 09, 2018, 01:28:58 AM
Yeah team! :awesome_for_real:

Be interesting to see where KJ ends up.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Jeff Kelly on June 13, 2018, 05:55:00 AM
Spain sacks the NT Manager two days before world cup starts  :ye_gods:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on July 01, 2018, 08:04:52 PM
Lebron to Lakers.  Next year, and the next few weeks, in particular, could be very interesting.  He fits perfectly there.  I'm surprised it took him so long to make this move.  But he had an axe to grind in Cleveland, and I think did a damned good job of doing something with almost nothing.  So good on him.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Trippy on July 01, 2018, 08:31:36 PM
It’s kind of too bad the West is so stacked now.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on July 02, 2018, 07:32:45 AM
Every time I hear Mark Cuban talk about the death of the NFL, I take a look at the NBA and laugh. You have 1 stacked dynasty team, 1 legend who makes any team he is on a contender, 2-4 really good teams but will never compete, and the rest are trash.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Paelos on July 02, 2018, 09:29:54 AM
Every time I hear Mark Cuban talk about the death of the NFL, I take a look at the NBA and laugh. You have 1 stacked dynasty team, 1 legend who makes any team he is on a contender, 2-4 really good teams but will never compete, and the rest are trash.

The NBA isn't even that successful. They tout all their ratings, but most of their playoff games do abysmal ratings comparatively. Their finals games did around a 17.5M viewers. Then you hear about the NFL's HUGE DROPS IN RATINGS... And you see their divisional playoff games do an average of around 34M viewers. Their absolute worst playoff game last year did 25M. The absolute best playoff finals game in the history of EVER for the NBA did 35M viewers. Their absolute best game in history is basically a run of the mill game for the Steelers and the Jags.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on July 02, 2018, 07:24:14 PM
The only thing really interesting about the NBA these days is the drama. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Trippy on July 02, 2018, 08:41:27 PM
DeMarcus Cousins joining Golden State Warriors (http://www.nba.com/article/2018/07/02/reports-demarcus-cousins-joining-golden-state-warriors)

lulz


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on July 04, 2018, 04:31:16 PM
I doubt he adds much.  Probably will see limited minutes and cause a bunch of rigmarole in the locker room and/or get hurt again. 


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Trippy on July 04, 2018, 06:07:28 PM
Assuming he can get back into playing condition/shape he'll be an off-the-bench player, just like JaVale McGee was, who went to the Lakers. I.e. he's going to be used as and paid as a bench role player. As for being a troublemaker he'll learn to tone it down or he won't play. And if he doesn't play and doesn't show other teams he can still play at a high level he's not going to get a big contract the year after (assuming again he can recover from his injury).


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: ghost on July 04, 2018, 06:23:41 PM
Honestly, for $5 million he's worth the risk, though.  Great pick up for that contract.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Jeff Kelly on September 16, 2018, 07:02:17 AM
I don’t know why I even watch Formula 1 anymore. This year has been an absolute disaster so far.

Mercedes and Lewis Hamilton yet again running away with the title. Two mistakes by their biggest opponent (Ferari and Sebastian Vettel) was all that it took. After 14 out of 21 races. Overtaking still impossible, basically everyone that is not Ferrari or Mercedes have absolutely no chance to win or finish on podium. McLaren consistently shit. Williams can only survive by hiring shitty pay drivers. Sauber basically became the Ferrari B Team to survive, the most successful Tier 2 team Force India went into administration because they couldn’t afford the budget.

The only guy able to beat Lewis Hamilton in his Mercedes has been his team mate from two seasons ago and not only did he need the exact same car to win, he also needed the luck of Hamilton having his worst season of the last ten years both by individual performance and reliability of the material. Even then he just barely won. Oh and he directly quit F1 after his win.

The last two times one team and driver were this dominant the governing body of F1 did everything to break that dominance. Regulation changes, changes to the way the points system worked, Banning individual parts that exploited loopholes mid season/mid race weekend etc. (e.g diffuser, active suspension)

With Mercedes they don’t seem to give a fuck though.

Also the new owner has consistently been shit running the whole show, coverage has become worse, their streaming service barely works. On screen graphics regularly still break (we still get Firstname Lastname for driver at least once per race still) and race direction consistently focuses on the wrong on track events.



Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Rasix on January 08, 2019, 10:06:51 AM
Roll Tide.


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on January 08, 2019, 10:42:42 AM
Fuck Nick Saban SO HARD.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Sky on January 08, 2019, 02:51:51 PM
The old lady happened to turn that game on as the 2nd quarter opened.

Holy crap Clemson is going to be a monster for a couple years until the Pats can sign the kid :D


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: HaemishM on January 08, 2019, 03:20:24 PM
Unless Brady retires this year and the Pats tank it hard for 2019 and 2020, they won't get him because he'll go early in the first round in 2021 (barring of course injury or a fall to earth).


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: Sky on January 08, 2019, 03:57:08 PM
I know. Actually my hope is that the Browns mishandle the next year so badly that Baker goes to learn at the foot of the goat and take the mantle (that will be worthless when everyone else leaves immediately after B&B check out).


Title: Re: Random Sports Discussion
Post by: 01101010 on January 08, 2019, 05:47:18 PM
I know. Actually my hope is that the Browns mishandle the next year so badly that Baker goes to learn at the foot of the goat and take the mantle (that will be worthless when everyone else leaves immediately after B&B check out).

what the fuck??