Mists of Pandaria

[Simond]

Those talent changes killed all "well, maybe.. " left within me.

Really, fuck that noise.  Unless you're going to give AA point ala EQ/ Rift you've now become the most restrictive MMO out there in terms of player decisions about character advancement.  Gear is preset, all abilities are preset and now talents.   Woo player choice.

Current WoW has two player choices: Look up the correct spec on the web, or be terrible.

[sinij]

oh god don't ruin my paladins they are perfect for me right now oh god

Now that they have a new healer class they should just flat out remove holy.   Let paladins be main spec melee like they're supposed to be.

Holy always should have been ranged tank with self-healing and nukes.

[Samprimary]

[Ingmar]

Paladins in Warcraft have *always* had range cast heals. There's no "supposed" to be melee except whatever expectations you bring with you from other IPs.

[Rokal]

Challenge Mode Dungeons scale your gear down so the challenge is consistent, and reward cosmetic armor and valor points. This is pretty much exactly what I was looking for. Even if heroics launch as or end up becoming faceroll quickly after release, hopefully this means there will be compelling 5-man content for the entire life of the expansion.

[Simond]

http://classic.battle.net/war2/units/paladin.shtml

[Ingmar]

http://classic.battle.net/war2/units/paladin.shtml

Yep. See the cast heal?

[Merusk]

Those talent changes killed all "well, maybe.. " left within me.

Really, fuck that noise.  Unless you're going to give AA point ala EQ/ Rift you've now become the most restrictive MMO out there in terms of player decisions about character advancement.  Gear is preset, all abilities are preset and now talents.   Woo player choice.

Current WoW has two player choices: Look up the correct spec on the web, or be terrible.

You're implying that by my rant I find the current state any more acceptable.  You would be wrong.

[Amaron]

Paladins in Warcraft have *always* had range cast heals. There's no "supposed" to be melee except whatever expectations you bring with you from other IPs.

I'm not talking about removing heals.  I'm just saying Paladin has always been about hitting things.  There's no need for an EQ cleric spec.   Let holy priest wear plate or something.

[AcidCat]

I wish they had the balls to make the female Pandaren just as fat as the males, but you know they are going to be these svelte little furry pinup models. ugh.

[Samprimary]

I wish they had the balls to make the female Pandaren just as fat as the males, but you know they are going to be these svelte little furry pinup models. ugh.

Don't forget that they're going to be the little furry ~oriental race~ pinup models from the ~oriental expansion~ from ~oriental lands~ where the native tongue is a ~bad oriental accent~

[Sjofn]

oh god don't ruin my paladins they are perfect for me right now oh god

You are one of these? You actually like combo points system? Why? You must be one of Cleric-wannabies...  

Healing as a paladin is fucking fun as hell right now. I also really enjoy how they work as a tank. Ret is shitty, but fuck ret.

oh god don't ruin my paladins they are perfect for me right now oh god

Now that they have a new healer class they should just flat out remove holy.   Let paladins be main spec melee like they're supposed to be.

NO.


EDIT: And yes, I hope the lady pandaren are fatty fat fat. They tried to split the hot-but-not-furry difference with lady worgens, and lady worgens look fucking awful as a result. Make the chicks make sense, Blizzard. Just do it.

[AcidCat]

I wish they had the balls to make the female Pandaren just as fat as the males, but you know they are going to be these svelte little furry pinup models. ugh.

Don't forget that they're going to be the little furry ~oriental race~ pinup models from the ~oriental expansion~ from ~oriental lands~ where the native tongue is a ~bad oriental accent~

And they will be both factions. There will be no escape.

[Simond]

Class and Talent panel starting now.

[Amaron]

Hell they're letting Druids have 4 specs now.   They can just blind copy holy paladin straight over to priest.   Give paladins a new healing spec that actually requires hitting stuff.

[Nevermore]

The talent speccing changes sounds terrible.

It isn't as terrible as Cata talents that had so little choice that they might as well be auto-assigned every time you get a point. Old talent trees, where you had an option of going deep into other tree and have "tier caper" abilities were good, but they give up trying to balance them.

Going from 71 talent points in wrath, to 31 in cata, to 6 in mists sounds like less and less fun.  But then, I never went for the cookie cutter builds personally.

[Sjofn]

  Give paladins a new healing spec that actually requires hitting stuff.

That would be so fucking annoying in PvP it is not even funny. I loved the warpriest in WAR for PvE, but it was a pain in the ass in PvP, even with their slightly-better-for-it targeting system.

Paladin healing isn't broken the way you think it is. There is absolutely no fucking reason to fix it.

[Rokal]

They're going to have more emphasis on questing at level cap, and questing will reward VP so you'll actually have a reason to do it.

This is where I wish they took a page from Rift or any other AA system instead. The bonuses you gain from planar attunement in Rift are very small, but you still feel like doing any activity in the game is giving your character a permanent bonus. I thought the feature would be very grindy, but since the bonuses are so small I didn't really feel like I needed to grind out planar attunment to be competitive. Instead, I just felt like I was being rewarded for doing stuff in the game, even if the quests or Rifts I was doing didn't give me gear upgrades, etc.

I'm sure AA systems are old-hat for most of you at this point, but I was surprised how well it worked in Rift.

[koro]

From a liveblog:

5:19 pm Now talents. One of the things they've learned over time is that a survivability ability next to a DPS ability in a DPS player, they will always take the DPS ability. "Really saps the actual reality of choice from the decision." What if they gave you three different survivability talents, and you got your choice? Which one appeals to you more as a player?
5:20 pm DPS to DPS abilities, survivability to survivability, mobility to mobility, etc. You get your choice among CC abilities, you get your choice among survivability, etc.
5:21 pm Warrior examples: Enrage as a passive, level 10 will choose your spec from among arms, fury, and protection with lots of implications. Some overlap when it makes sense between different specs, but abilities will largely be different.

[Amaron]

Paladin healing isn't broken the way you think it is. There is absolutely no fucking reason to fix it.

Whoa whoa.  I don't think it's broken.   I think Paladins being centered around the healing spec is broken.   Basically people like you love that style so much that it ruins the rest of the class.   I respect that you like that style and don't want to see it removed from the game really.   I just want Paladins to be about hitting people and healing sometimes. 

[Sjofn]

Broken the way you think it is. You seem to think the fact they cast their heals is a blight on the class. Thus: broken.

It doesn't ruin the rest of the class, though. There is no reason in the world to change it. It is good the way it is now. Seriously.

[Evildrider]

Sooo WoW adds a new "Powerball" pvp map.  Hmmmmm.

Ahh it's a combination of Huttball and Mourkain Temple. 

[Amaron]

Broken the way you think it is. You seem to think the fact they cast their heals is a blight on the class. Thus: broken.

I just said I want them to cast heals.   Ranged heals and everything.   Melee healer in PvP isn't so much of a problem.   They wouldn't do that much damage so making them unpealable isn't really a problem.

[Ingmar]

I like the new talent system, tentatively. Feels a lot like 4e D&D to me in a way. Or Guild Wars. Pick your loadout, etc.

Actually executing on making the choices be real choices is of course to be determined.

[Fabricated]

Sooo WoW adds a new "Powerball" pvp map.  Hmmmmm.

Next additions: RP text wheel responses in dungeons and space combat!

[Rokal]

Actually executing on making the choices be real choices is of course to be determined.

I feel like they've said this for *every* talent revision they've ever done, so we'll see.

[Nevermore]

I like the new talent system, tentatively. Feels a lot like 4e D&D to me in a way. Or Guild Wars. Pick your loadout, etc.

Actually executing on making the choices be real choices is of course to be determined.

It sounds very bland to me.  And this being Blizzard, you just know there'll be one or two awesome talents that everyone always picks and the rest will be a bunch of throwaway crap that makes no difference whatsoever.

On the other hand, I saw something where they're going to make at least some achievements credit for all characters on an account.  That would certainly be a nice change.

[Evildrider]

I haven't seen anything but is it true there is no auto attack now?  Or is that just for the new class?

[Sjofn]

Broken the way you think it is. You seem to think the fact they cast their heals is a blight on the class. Thus: broken.

I just said I want them to cast heals.   Ranged heals and everything.   Melee healer in PvP isn't so much of a problem.   They wouldn't do that much damage so making them unpealable isn't really a problem.

If I have to hit to heal, the problem is the class becomes a huge pain in the ass to play. I already CAN hit things to build holy power faster if I want (we ALL get crusader strike). You just seem to want to make the class more annoying for no good reason.

Maybe you need to explain yourself a little better. I just don't think introducing warpriest-like mechanics to the paladin is a good idea. I also don't see the point in making them more melee oriented if it's more "I want them to be able to punch people on principle."

[Paelos]

I'm always amazed at how people freak the fuck out over talent changes. And not just actual ones, the theoretical ones especially. Never mind that there's a whole slew of new content or whatever, threads devolve into back and forth over fucking paladins or druids. I especially hate the druid conversations.

 

[Ingmar]

Just for monks.

On the talents I think the fact that you're picking from a same-type ability at each level gives them a leg up on keeping them more relatively balanced, but yeah we'll see.

I find these choices a lot less bland than 'pick this one spec and you pretty much have to always take the same stuff.' I had hopes that they would fix that in Cata, they did a little better but not much, so I do think it is time to blow it up and try something new.

[Rendakor]

Just for monks.

New talent system sounds like ass. Again.

Regarding Amaron's   suggestions for pallies, you're getting a melee healer in MoP. It's called monk.

[Sjofn]

I'm always amazed at how people freak the fuck out over talent changes. And not just actual ones, the theoretical ones especially. Never mind that there's a whole slew of new content or whatever, threads devolve into back and forth over fucking paladins or druids. I especially hate the druid conversations.

 

If they're going to fundamentally change my class (and let's face it, they will, because they change paladins every expansion ... same with druids, really), it has a big impact on how I'm going to be seeing that slew of new content.

[Morfiend]

Pandas =  
Monk =  
New Talens  =

I like the idea of the new talent system, but we will have to see how it works.

On the other hand, I am super tempted to buy the year subscription thing. I was planning on buying Diablo 3 anyway, and I know I will be subbed for at least the next 4 months or so as it is now. Plus I am a huge sucker for a cool mount.

[Nevermore]

I'm always amazed at how people freak the fuck out over talent changes. And not just actual ones, the theoretical ones especially. Never mind that there's a whole slew of new content or whatever, threads devolve into back and forth over fucking paladins or druids. I especially hate the druid conversations.

 

Because you experience all that content through your character, so if playing your character becomes less fun then it doesn't really matter how much new awesome content they add.

I find these choices a lot less bland than 'pick this one spec and you pretty much have to always take the same stuff.' I had hopes that they would fix that in Cata, they did a little better but not much, so I do think it is time to blow it up and try something new.

See, I thought cata was mostly a step backwards in that it basically codified the cookie cutter builds, where in wrath you had a lot more flexibility unless you were one of those people who *had* to squeeze out every singe iota of dps or whatever.  I will say that cata really improved the leveling experience, though.

So I guess Monks are like melee casters in that if they don't push a button, they get no damage?  I certainly hope they have some attacks that either don't use that 'chi energy' or generates it, which I guess would make them feel sort of like melee Hunters?